Welcome to Nerdpreneur where we have
fun conversations with people making
money from their nerdy passion. As always,
I am joined by my co host Frank.
Hello.
And today we have a very special guest.
His name is Andres.
Welcome to the show.
How's it going, guys?
Thanks for having me.
Awesome to have you here. Well, Andres,
what is your nerdy passion?
Hold on, hold on.
If you're going to start with Andres,
you got to keep it all the way through.
You can't just say Andres now.
I mean, you committed. All right, all right.
You're going all the way.
We totally had this discussion off mic and I'm
fucking it up right now. Eh, Andres, Andres.
All right, you're good, man.
Well, Andres, what is your nerdy passion? Am I,
am I butchering it?
No, man, you're nailing it. I'm not Spanish.
I'm not Spanish, so you know,
it's a Spanish name.
I was named after an Ecuadorian
tennis player named Andres Gomez.
And so that's where that comes from. But yeah,
it's gotta be a bit.
In your life, man. Like when you meet, it goes.
You just are like,
you walk into the
casting room and you're like, yeah, Andres,
it's nice to meet you.
And they're like, oh, oh, that's sometimes.
It depends on the room.
You gotta read the room.
Yeah, right.
I used to live with two Mexican guys
and they used to just make fun of me because
you can't even say your own name, buddy.
Two really good guys. But they were. Yeah,
they're funny. Yeah. But, yeah,
super stoked to be here.
Thanks for having me.
I would say right now, you know,
my nerdy passion currently would be the pottery
studio that I opened a couple years ago.
It's called Mud Lab here in Vancouver.
That's what I've been probably
dedicating the majority of my time
and focus to in the entrepreneurial world.
I do have a lot of other things that
I do on the side and that I have done,
but that's definitely been the biggest
aspect of entrepreneurship
and focus in the last two years.
Two, three years.
Yeah, that's very good.
And I kind of want to give.
I want to give some context a
bit like right off the bat for
how Andreas is in this interview,
because Andreas and I met about like eight,
nine years ago or something when,
when I was acting.
And you're still acting. Right.
Okay.
All right, so we're going to come.
We're going to circle back.
That's my job. That's my job.
That's the main job.
Yeah. I call that. That's my career and
my studio is my passion project, basically,
which is mind.
Blowing and one of the coolest things to me.
And when you told me,
I probably had the same
reaction I'm having right now, which was like,
you opened a studio
as a side hustle in Vancouver,
one of the like,
most expensive places
to own a brick and mortar business,
and it's your side
hustle. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. But no,
your main job is you're an actor.
Like. Yeah.
What?
You know what?
I always say that people, you know,
during COVID they bake bread or they,
they cook up crafts or whatever.
My covet hobby was open
up opening up this pottery studio.
Yeah, that's a crazy thing to do.
Sometimes I wish
I just went after the sourdough,
to be honest with you,
but I'm here now, so. No, just kidding.
When did you open?
So officially open? July 2021.
I took the lease in
March of 2021 and then did a.
Did a bunch of renos in the place.
The reason why I'm able to kind of
to do what I'm doing in Vancouver,
as you said, is expensive,
is because I took a space that needed a lot of
work and was sort of more of like a warehousey
kind of space that was pretty rundown a
lot of damage to the drywalls and floors
and walls hanging off, you know, wherever.
And just really dedicated
a lot of time to doing the renos.
Mostly myself and a couple of
good friends of mine. And so, yeah, so March.
March 2021 was when we signed.
I signed the lease.
And then in July,
July 4th or 5th or something,
we had our first class.
And I remember
right up until the class started, I was, like,
chopping wood, you know, trying to, like,
build tables
and all this kind of stuff. Like, literally,
as people came,
I had my shirt off because
I didn't have a change of clothes.
I don't want to sweat and stink.
And I sawdust over me, and
somebody opens the door, I'm like, oh, shit,
I better get rid.
And I, you know, put my.
Put my shirt on and my apron.
Welcome to Mud Lab. Yeah,
put your coats over here,
you know, and like, oh, my gosh.
There's no idea what I was doing. And
that was the first class. And, yeah,
it's come a long, long,
long way in a few short years.
Coming up on three years now.
I don't know a ton about ceramics,
but I know ceramics is not easy.
And so did you have training before opening?
And how did that all get started for you?
Was this a passion from when
you were a kid or where did you train?
Yeah, so I actually. I had no
formal training or education in ceramics in
any capacity kind of before opening the studio.
And that's kind of how I approach most of the
things that I do in my life. But pretty much,
I had taken
a sculpture class in Uvic as, like,
an extra credit to get myself
into the business program there
because I didn't have the GPA to get in.
I had a lot of
great extracurricular stuff that was, like,
keeping me afloat
in terms of my application there.
And then I needed the gpa,
so I took a couple art classes,
I took an acting class,
and I took a two sculpture workshop classes.
And that was the first time
that I ever really worked with clay.
And this was 2013, I think. 2012.
2013 in the summertime.
And I just really loved
working with clay because prior to that,
I was doing woodworking, construction,
all that kind of stuff.
So a lot of different, you know,
working with my hands and things like that,
but nothing with clay.
And so that just really sparked
this fascination with the medium.
And it was a basic class, but I did really,
really well in it, you know,
just because I'm creative and hardworking.
And I would go to the studio
every Every night almost, you know, like three,
four times a week,
I'd be there till one
in the morning just playing with clay.
And so that really sparked an interest.
And I don't think I was, like,
particularly good at it. I wasn't
doing any wheel throwing, just sculpture,
but I was fascinated, so.
And just like with anything,
when you're nerdy about it or hyper focused,
you figure it out, right?
And so that's what I did.
And that just stuck with me.
And four years later,
I was playing poker with a buddy of mine
and his wife came home and she had just
finished a ceramics class at a local
rec center in North Van, actually.
And I said, what?
You're doing a pottery class?
Like, oh, no way. I used to do ceramics. Like,
show me what you got.
And we started talking
about clay and she's like, you know,
like what you're talking about a bit.
And so she inspired me to get back
into it and actually sent an email to
the instructor to help me get into a
class there because classes are all, you know,
hard to get into in town.
And that was it.
And that was 2019, 2018, 2019,
that I actually started, like,
doing ceramics in terms of, like,
wheel throwing
and getting my hands on more, you know,
equipment and not just sculpture work.
So that's what sparked it.
And then I was just addicted. I was hooked.
And I couldn't stop. I was.
I was going as much as I could.
I was sneaking in
after hours as a rec center. And like,
you can go in there at certain
times in the evening and then
they close and you're supposed to leave,
but I would just turn the lights off.
And then when the janitor
would come by and do his rounds, I'd like,
pop back out and I'd be there till two
in the morning sometimes. And, yeah, and just.
Just loved it.
And that's kind of how it started.
And then I was in a few different studios,
one in LA and one here in Vancouver.
And then not even a year later, I said,
I'm going to open up this studio.
So awesome.
Why the studio? I mean, I understand
that you really enjoy doing ceramics,
but why make that big of a leap?
I guess the question was always,
why not for me.
And I couldn't come
up with a good enough answer. Why not? Um,
I've always wanted to have
a studio workshop kind of space,
whether that was going to
be woodworking or ceramics or whatever,
like that was in my future. And
actually this was supposed to be a coffee shop,
pottery studio combo, which
is something I'm still kind of working on,
but that was something that I wanted to do.
And so I was working at
another studio here in town and it just,
it wasn't a good fit for me.
I didn't think that the community
in Vancouver was being serviced
in terms of like just offerings
from a studio and type of atmosphere,
community equipment,
just access to different kinds of hours.
Just so many things were not happening
in Vancouver and there were studios in LA
that were doing things way better. And I said,
you know what?
I'm going to bring kind of some of
the concepts that I've seen and combine
and come up with my own sort of thing.
And it just made sense.
And Covid happened, right?
And everything was shut down and places
were renting out for a little cheaper.
And it was just
like a perfect kind of, you know,
perfect storm of things.
And I met somebody named Vin Aurora who
was an instructor at the previous studio.
One of the best potters in town,
and just really inspirational
guy and really inspirational potter.
And I said, hey man, like I.
This is something I've been wanted to do. Like,
what do you think? Let's go do this thing. And
he ended up not partnering with me directly,
but being really like a grounding
force in being able to open the studio
up from a technical aspect and
just teaching me a lot about the craft.
And so a lot of my early learnings
and continued learnings came from opening
this business and learning from Vin and
learning on the job and figuring it out
and messing it up and over firing kilns
and messing up glazes and da da da da da,
and teaching shitty classes,
just all this
stuff and somehow still, you know, making.
Making it work and not going under.
And now I think, I genuinely believe,
I think we're one of the best,
if not the best studios in town.
So then when you got this idea, you know,
obviously it was an idea at
first and you had to kind of say, okay, well,
what's the next step beyond
the idea to actually get this thing?
Was it go right to finding
a space and then working it out,
or do you have to source a bunch of stuff in
order to be able to put in the space first?
Or research competition?
Yeah, I mean, I knew what the, you know,
the market was.
That's kind of the first thing
you do in my opinion, is you say, okay, like,
what's out there?
Who's my competition and what is being
offered and can I do this better? You know,
because no matter what you do,
unless you're in a perfect market, you might,
you're going to always pretty
much have some level of competition.
And you got to.
You got to know what you're,
what you're going into.
And if you can't adequately
bring something unique, don't. Don't, you know,
you're not ready.
And I knew that in terms of the market,
I knew that there was a hole in the gap.
And things have changed now,
but at the time, there
was maybe two or three, like, decent studios,
and now there's probably seven or eight. Not.
I wouldn't say they're all decent,
but it was just.
I knew there was space. And then, you know,
it just comes down
to crunching numbers. You think, okay, well,
how much is this studio charging for this?
How many people do.
How many classes? Like, what are they?
How are they much? They're
pulling in a month, in a year, and da, da, da,
what are my expenses?
How much does a place cost?
How much can I get it for?
And you just start trying to line stuff up. And
I have a few ways that I kind of approach my
finances and things like that. And then, yeah,
just getting on the phone,
calling real estate agents.
I didn't have an agent or anything like that.
I never had rented a commercial space.
I know what the hell I was getting into.
Just started going
and looking at places and again, same thing,
like learning on the job, you know,
figuring out what kind of questions to ask,
what kind of, you know, power I need,
what kind of parking.
Just all these things you don't
think about when you're. You're, you know,
getting into that realm of a business.
And I had a lot of setbacks
in the place that I ended up renting.
And I had a lot of learning experiences.
And this is kind
of the theme of this whole thing, right?
But it was just step by step. What's next?
What do I gotta do? Okay,
I gotta get wheels.
Where am I gonna get them from?
What's the best place to get them from? Okay,
I'm gonna source them from here.
I'm gonna order things from the States,
or I'm gonna find things locally,
or I'm gonna get stuff used.
I'm refurbished.
And how do I get a kiln? And it's just.
It was just plug and play, every single thing.
And that's part of
the reason why I think, you know,
taking the lease in March and opening in July,
not only was.
Not only was the, you know,
the Renault took time primarily
because I was kind of plugging at it, you know,
a little bit at a time on my own. And
With a couple of friends that my electrician,
my really good buddy Amos,
and my buddy Max helped me with a demo and kind
of putting up some drywall and stuff like that.
But it was really just every,
every day and night in there. So slow.
But also like having our wheels held
up and shipping and having a kiln
I had to go pick up from the island. It's like
all these things and, and so, you know, you.
I would never recommend somebody necessarily,
so I'm just rambling,
but I guess that's the point of the podcast.
I would never recommend rambling.
I would never necessarily recommend somebody
just going head first into something like this.
Especially when you're getting into, you know,
a commercial space because you're
signing a five plus year lease, right?
And you're, you're
on the hook for that and you're,
you're spending thousands of dollars
on equipment or whatever. But, you know,
I think the point of the story
is that if you have a goal
and you're realistic with that goal,
you're not just, you know, blindly
going into some idea that you think is great,
but the reality is it's maybe not.
And maybe not that it's a bad idea,
but maybe it's not profitable.
And I figure that it would be. Sorry, Frank,
you want to say something there?
Yeah. Well, no, you can finish, please.
No, I was just gonna say that like that
that was the reason why I said, okay,
I can do this,
because I have a worst case scenario. And it's,
it's basically break even or, you know,
a couple of grand out.
It's not that big of a deal.
So worst case scenario,
I learned a lot. And that's,
that's why I did it. Right.
Recognizing that learning is, you know,
worst case scenario,
at least you'll take
away some really good lessons.
And one of the things that's
really standing out to me in this
story is how much prep there was.
But it wasn't really
considered prep at the time, I'm sure,
because you were getting to know the
industry just by being a part of it,
because you were naturally
really interested in ceramics. I mean,
I'd say given that you're sneaking into
the studio and staying until 2am you're
probably pretty passionate about the art.
And when you have that kind of hunger for
knowledge and the joy that you get from it,
you kept doing it for years.
And through all of that you met
the people and you got to know it.
And it's sometimes a section
of starting a business that gets overlooked.
People are just Like, I'm excited.
I'm going to turn this into a business
tomorrow and I'm going to make this happen.
I'm going to make a name,
I'm going to get the website
and I'm going to just start doing this.
And there's not always as
much time or research put into it.
So I wanted to highlight
how important that has been for you.
And you've been in business now for.
You're coming up on three years pretty soon.
Yep.
Which is crazy. Way to go, man.
Yep. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, yeah, it's been.
It's been a journey for sure. A lot,
A lot of learning,
a lot of maturing, you know,
And I was just having a conversation with,
with Vin the other day.
I still sent him a message and
just like had to kind of say, you know,
thanks for all the patience and
the grace that you've given
me like during this process because, you know,
I come in pretty hot a lot of the times with
how I think should things should be or my ideas
or I want things done. Now let's go, let's go.
And. And you know, you gotta have that
energy in order to get stuff done.
There's no doubt about it. You know,
you're not gonna move. Right.
And that's tough sometimes in the art
world because a lot of times artists
are the opposite. Right. It's like, yeah, man,
I'll get to it. You don't worry.
The month later,
it's like it's on my desk. Like, I gotta,
you know, I gotta. Whatever. So, you know,
working in that.
In that world is kind of counterintuitive
in this kind of industry sometimes.
And I think, you know, like you said,
doing the research was realizing that there are
a lot of people that want what I want in
terms of a studio and a space to work out of.
And they're addicted to this.
I call it a sport sometimes.
They're addicted to this craft. Right. Like,
they love pottery and they can't stop.
And I was the same.
And I was in LA for about two and
a half months right before COVID hit. And
there was a 24 hour access studio there that
had all the glazes and everything you want.
They just like didn't give a shit,
let you do whatever the hell you wanted.
And it was the coolest
thing ever coming out of, you know,
a super restricting community studio in
North Vancouver and great place, but just not.
It's very limiting for actual growth and then
seeing that and being like, holy shit, like,
this is amazing,
but it's really expensive. And like,
how are they doing this?
They're making money and I'm doing
the calculations already. Like, oh shit. Like,
this guy is probably doing okay, you know,
not thinking about a lot of factors,
but just realizing there's a business
here and this guy is crushing it.
He's got three locations
and da da da da da. And you know,
like seeing this model work and
then come back up to Vancouver
because Covid hit and realizing like, yeah,
like there's just nothing like that here.
And that's, that's
how I knew we can do it.
And that was that quote
unquote research was realizing like, yeah,
there's a lot of potential
in this area and you just, you know,
you got to see it.
The only way to see it is to
be in it and to do it and to, you know,
know what people want.
Well, there's so much in that story
that you mentioned because, you know, you're,
you mentioned coming in,
being passionate and
taking action and an entrepreneur's job,
I think first is to be a problem solver.
And it sounds like you were just a voracious
problem solver as you went through
this process of starting things up right,
finding a way to
get to the next problem and then, all right,
we can solve it this way.
But you also kind of knew where you wanted
to go because you were modeling the LA
studio that you had seen or you were taking
some of the great things that you knew worked.
So I love that strategy.
I'm curious for like where,
where does that problem.
Have you always been an entrepreneur?
Is that something that you just kind of
have done in the past and you problem solve?
Because not everybody is like that.
So I'm curious, like,
where does that come from?
Yeah, I think I've, since
day one always been very, very,
very entrepreneurial.
But more like you said,
the problem solving aspect of things,
first and foremost, it's an,
it's an interest in something.
I definitely have been, you know,
clinically diagnosed with
ADHD as a kid. Hyperactive, you know, needing,
needing to like,
have something to do
or I'm going to get destructive.
And so I get hyper
focused on something and I can't stop.
And if I love it, I love it. And that's,
that's usually where my interests come from.
Is that sort of just like, wow, this is cool.
And I want to figure out everything about this.
But usually what happens is I get myself
in a pickle with something and it's like, okay,
I bought this motorcycle for,
you know, 500 bucks. It doesn't run.
I don't have any money. I
got to figure out how to get this thing running
and sell it or whatever. And like, okay, carbs.
What are carburetors? Okay,
I got to go figure that out.
And so that's typically how
I operate is kind of out of necessity.
Either financial
because I hoop myself or because, like,
I just gotta accomplish
this goal that I've set out to do.
And if I'm interested enough,
nothing's gonna
stop me from getting it done. And yeah, that's.
That's always how I've been.
That's what I was
curious about too, because, like,
there was a significant
startup cost to doing something like this.
It wasn't like you were starting
an online part of pottery
class where there's no startup cost. You're
investing in a space and kilns and a lot.
So there's a lot of capital.
How much was it that you kind
of started committing yourself
and then having to create that, like,
focus and passion on, all right, I
got to figure out how to make this profitable.
Or was there, I don't know. Or
was it more intentional and reasoned and, like,
careful along the way
to get to that place where you say, okay,
I'm opening my doors?
Well, like I said, once
I committed to doing it, there was like,
it didn't really matter what the cost
was in terms of, you know, startup. Like, I
factored all those things in, right? If it was.
If it was not feasible,
I wouldn't have done it,
but I knew that, okay,
here's a chunk of money that I'm going
to need to get this thing off the road.
This is how many, you know, months, years,
or whatever it's going to take me to
break even or to at least stay afloat.
And worst case scenario, okay,
I can do this.
And then, you know, like, financially,
the last four years, five years,
I've done well with my acting.
I've done well with my other gigs. I've very,
very smart with my money. I don't.
I don't spend stupidly.
I sell every car I buy for more money,
every bike I buy for more. Like,
I'm always smart
and sensible with my spending habits.
And so that's allowed me to be very financially
secure and live a pretty fun life.
And so I took the money that I had,
and I actually was wise enough
to still take out a loan. And the, you know,
idea was that I have
my own finances to cover that.
Worst case scenario, again,
I'm not going to be on
the hook for this Loan I can,
but I'm not going to be shit out of luck and
not be able to pay rent, you know, right now.
So I still took out a loan.
I did the calculations on
interest and all this kind of stuff,
and I went for it. And, you know, doing.
I'd say, like,
I did everything that I could myself.
I did the renos,
I built the tables. I, you know, I had my.
My electrician friend do the work,
and I was side by side with him,
helping him out, doing this, doing that.
So, like, I saved myself probably,
I'd say, like,
80 to 100 grand by doing this stuff myself.
Damn.
And so if I didn't have those skills,
I don't think those numbers would be awesome.
I could do it, right? Yeah,
I don't think it would.
I don't think I could financially
justify it, you know, from a, like, oh,
I have an idea perspective, you know,
and now, you know, since last year, we're, We.
We broke even and we're, you know,
now very profitable,
and we're very profit.
We're doing good, but we're, you know,
had I had.
Had to pay for people
to do all this work for me, like, I just.
I don't think I would have done it.
So, you know, there are barriers
to doing a business. And, and usually, like,
if I'm going to approach something,
it's because I.
Maybe I don't have the immediate knowledge,
but I have the skill and
the motivation to figure it out,
and I'm going to do it myself and not
necessarily have to rely on anybody else.
And that's what this kind
of business was to me, you know, sounds like.
You bank on yourself confidently,
which isn't really awesome.
You gotta.
Yeah. Like, it just. Not everybody
necessarily would look at that and be like, oh,
I can't do that,
or there's no way I could be that person.
Because there's probably lots of
ceramicists out there that might even be
maybe better than you were at ceramics
before you opened this business. Right. Like,
but they weren't willing to go
through all the things that you
did to get to the point of, like, all right,
I'm going to. Like,
entrepreneurship and the passion
are two completely different skill sets.
And it sounds like you got that
entrepreneurship drive thing going for you.
And the.
And the passion was really just like,
the big why behind it.
Yeah. You know, it's interesting because, like,
I do so many things in
my life that kind of people say, like, wow,
you just went for it and you weren't afraid,
and you just did it.
And a lot of times there are
things that I actually don't care about.
Like when I say don't care about,
it's not that I don't care about my studio.
I don't care about Mac and career.
I care tremendously about these things
that I've created and worked so hard for,
but they're not things that I
have felt like if I fail at this,
I'm going to be embarrassed,
or if I don't do this,
or if I put this out,
people are going to mock me.
It's my art, it's my thing. Like,
I have a hard time,
believe it or not,
putting my own ceramic work out there,
because even though I know it's
comparable to kind of what's out there, and
I can make a variety of things at a, you know,
a decent level, blah, blah, blah, blah,
I am more afraid of having my
artwork that I have some sort of
personal attachment to because I
felt like it was special to me be judged.
Whereas something like a pottery studio,
I'm creating a space for
other people to enjoy and be creative,
and that is just a business.
And same thing with acting.
I am a vessel for other people's work.
Sometimes I'm good, sometimes I'm bad.
That's on me to do the best that I can.
But at the end of the day, like, I'm
there to service somebody else's creativity.
And so that's why
I do these things in that capacity, because it.
I'm not afraid of the outcome.
But there are a lot of things that I would
like to do and wish that I had the balls
to do that other people, you know, be like,
it'd be easier just to
put your shit on Etsy. Like, that terrifies me.
Right.
Believe it or not.
Really? Why?
Yeah, because it's, you know, it's this, like,
kind of said it's this feeling. And I do. I.
So I use my photography, for example.
I used to do a lot of photography,
a lot of travel,
and I've taken some.
Some beautiful photos and I put them out there,
and I have thousands of photos
I've never put out there or I will,
hopefully one day. But anyway,
the point is that you
put out something that you feel like.
This is something that I resonate, I feel.
I feel something about, and
I hope other people enjoy it and they like it,
and then they don't, or they.
You don't get the response or feedback
to something that you do enjoy and love,
but you get an element
out of that for something else.
In your work that you didn't really find as
appealing in your own personal craft or art.
And then you start to skew
how you think you should
present or do something based on, you know,
what you think other people might like. And
then you become conscious about your creations,
and that's just an artist,
you know, conundrum. It's. It's a.
It's a tale of time. Right.
And to learn to get over that.
So when it comes
to my ceramics and my. My pottery,
I've also been in some.
Some scenarios
in the studio in the past where, you know,
I was kind of.
The whole issue with that studio was a lot of.
A lot of people's work
was judged in a negative light,
and that's what Mud Lab is. Stands against.
We're here to you to create.
And so I kind of got this feeling, oh,
my stuff isn't good enough, or it's not.
Not like this person's,
or I will never
be able to be as good. Dah, dah, dah, dah.
And so you just kind of withdraw
from putting your art out there.
But I still have a love and a
passion for the craft and the community,
and I want to create something in that.
And so that's why I opened the studio
wasn't because I want to sell my art.
I want to sell my work.
It's because I love pottery,
and I want to be in this,
and I want to create a space that.
That's unique and that didn't feel as
personal to me because it's a brand, it's a.
It's a business.
It's something that's
out there that people see Mud Lab, they
don't see Andres and his creativity, and they.
They don't feel like it's not tangible. Like,
they hold in their hand and say, oh, yeah,
it doesn't feel quite right or whatever. Right.
So that's kind of what.
That's all it sounds like.
There's a little bit of.
If you were to put your
stuff out there to be judged,
it veers a little too close
to what else is happening in Vancouver.
And is there a chance or is there any
fear that it might then be the first step
in your studio becoming like other studios?
You mean in terms of, like, my.
Pottery or just that people start to then
judge pottery at Mud Lab, you know, and then.
Yeah, I mean, I think I've done
a good job of keeping myself, like,
separate from the business.
Yeah.
I don't.
Looking at the online presence, I would.
I would say I had a Hard
time finding a picture of you. I was like,
where is this guy?
There's a couple
in there for sure. But it's, you know, it's.
It's only because
it's relevant, right? Like, it's, you know,
teaching a class or it's like
something specific for, you know, it's. It's.
I don't plaster myself on it.
I'm not the brand,
and I never want it to be.
And I think that's, you know,
important to keep in mind, too,
when you're doing these things that are.
That are for other people,
is that you're not.
You're not the studio.
You own and
run and operate the studio. And yes, you.
You impart everything that is, you know, living
and breathing in that studio, but you're.
You have to separate
yourself from being the studio.
And so no matter what I do,
if I put my art out there, and I do.
I do put stuff out there, I do sell stuff,
I do get commissions. I've
got working coffee shops, I've got, you know,
requests for restaurants, all kind of.
It's not like I don't do anything.
I just don't push it.
I don't put it out there. Like, buy my stuff,
look at my art,
and I will one day.
I've got a great collection of things
that I'm now really super proud of,
and I want to build a website
and I want to put that stuff out there.
But that has always been a little
bit tougher for me to take that leap.
But I don't think
that if I ever, you know, did that, it would.
It would affect.
Even if I was dog shit or whatever,
it wouldn't affect the situation.
It's surprising that you haven't
started an Instagram account
just for all your ceramics works yet.
Dude, if I. If I started a Instagram
page for all the shit I do, I'd have.
I already have like seven Instagrams,
so I'd
have a lot more. But, yeah, you know, it's. I.
Something that I wanted to do early on,
and then opening the studio, you know,
it also just.
It took me into a different direction in this.
In this. This art, right? In this.
In this craft. Because
now I'm focusing on operating a business.
I don't have time to sit down and
throw 40 bowls or plates or whatever.
I have to, you know, register classes,
and I have to do my accounting, and
I've got this and I got that, and I got orders.
I got to pick up clay.
I've got to figure out
this I got to train teachers. I've
got to figure, you know, membership shelving.
Da da da da, da da.
It's really interesting that you
didn't use your brand for this like,
that you're not leveraging
to create your brand in a way.
I actually think there's. You know,
on one hand,
you can't take the brand with
you wherever you go, but on, you know, on the.
On the hand that we're. We're looking at,
you are able to have more time to yourself.
People aren't expecting
you to show up to everything.
You can hand more off to other people
that you deem capable in certain situations.
And no one's gonna go in and say, hey,
I want class with Andres.
Like, I really want him, because he's
the celebrity of this studio.
He's the guy who started it. You know, like,
we got lucky that you were our teacher
when I went in with that group and, you know,
and that we knew each other,
but if somebody else had
been there that was our teacher, I wouldn't.
I wouldn't have known.
Well, that's. Absolutely. And that's
the thing about Mudlab is that
everybody that is teaching at Mud
Lab is phenomenal at what they do.
And not to put anybody down, but, you know,
pottery has traditionally been a craft
that is hard to teach and hard to learn.
And you doing it, you know,
you can maybe, you know, attest
it may have been challenging and difficult,
but you did it.
Yeah.
And you walked
out of there with a bowl. You know,
I was really proud of my bowl.
It was. It was good, man. I was.
As you should be, man.
As you should be. Absolutely. And.
And that's, you know. Yeah, obviously,
there's different levels of teachers. Like,
for example,
people will come to the
studio to take a class with Vin. They will
come to the studio to take a class with me,
or they'll repeat a class.
But a lot of people who come, they just.
They just want to try pottery,
and they heard this is a great place to do it.
Our Google reviews are great,
and they're honest.
And so people come and they do that,
and they have a good experience,
and they learn something no matter what,
no matter who they have.
But, yeah, absolutely, people will take
a workshop with us because
of the teacher, so that. That's there, too,
but not on any kind of, like,
celebrity status level
or he's the owner of this. Here he comes.
Nothing like that,
you know? Yeah. And sometimes, you know,
I walk in there and, like, I'm not.
I'm not there
as Much as I was, you know, in the beginning.
I was teaching three classes a
week plus the events and Vin was
doing the other classes and I was, you know,
doing all the kilns
with Vin or whatever and the glazes.
And so I was there every day, you know,
and so I was a big part of that.
And I was much more,
much more like a presence in
there for the first like year and a half.
And I think that's also something to
say kind of to your point of me
not having to be there now is that
you have to be there at the beginning.
Like you have to set this up and understand
the ins and outs of everything. You know,
when I walk in there and I introduce
myself to a class and I try my best
to go with the first few classes
when we have a new session or whatever,
just to get my face out and say, hey,
and just so people know who I am.
But also I come in there now and
I don't know a lot of people and
I walk in there and I say, hey, how you doing?
Are you here for a drop in?
And they're like, yeah, why? Like, oh, cool.
Nowhere is, you know, where to go.
Okay, so Vancouver.
That sounds like everyone in Vancouver.
It's, you know, it is, it is what it is.
Like people don't
necessarily know who I am. It's fine,
I don't need them to. But you know,
I also want to come
in there and people to say, hey, Andres,
how you doing? Da da da da.
Or ask me a question.
And people who know me, they do that, right?
And it's a very social, fun place.
But you know,
I kind of jokingly,
a lot of times, well,
I'm always a little coy and shy to say, oh,
I'm the studio owner here.
I usually like introduce myself as the janitor.
Honest to God,
I've cleaned the toilets more than
anybody else has and I clean up after
people and I do this and I do that. And
that's what you have to do to understand A,
how your business works,
how to improve it,
how to make it run as efficiently as you
can from a grounds up level and then B,
also how to be fair in
training people and compensating people.
Because if you don't have an
understanding of how long it takes
to do a task or you don't understand, you know,
what the levels are
in terms of progression in a task,
you have unreal expectations on people
and that's not a sustainable way to have
a business that is very manually focused.
It's A business that you have to
have people trained to
do things with their hands physically,
and if you don't understand what that takes,
you're off the mark and then you're going
to just end up having a lot of conflicts.
Yeah. So first year and a half, two years,
was like a lot of just doing everything.
That's the entrepreneur journey,
being responsible for everything.
I wanted to ask about something else, though,
because what I noticed is you
started with a passion towards pottery,
but then when you get into this,
your focus sounds to me like it became
much more upon the customer experience and
the brand that you were putting out. That way,
maybe you could talk a little bit about
what that is for you and how that came.
How much of it was chosen beforehand
and how much of it emerged through
the experience of actually training and doing.
It with people in terms
of the brand and stuff like that, or, well.
The brand and the customer experience.
Because at least what
stood out to me was you mentioned, like,
I went to other studios and things felt judgy,
for example. Right. And you're like,
I want a place where that is not the case,
where it's more welcoming,
more everyone can do pottery.
You leave with a great pot.
Frank is proud
of his stuff when he gets done. And, you know,
I was like, to me, really proud.
I just.
I just have.
Are you using it, dude?
My favorite small, like, chip bowls.
This is the
customer experience, right. So, like,
how much of that did
that emerge through you doing it?
Or how much of that was chosen before?
And it's like, that's what I.
What we're going to do, you know?
Well, like, in terms of the
heart of what the studio is, was. Was always.
I want people to always have that
childlike wonder of what they're making, even
if I've lost it, you know, And I. You know,
we're all guilty of accidentally imposing
our thoughts on people's creative processes,
whatever it is. Right.
And you got to be very careful of that
because everybody has different sensitivities.
And even if you mean well. So for me,
it was like,
that's always was forefront is that I want
people to come in here and I want them to
feel free to make whatever the hell they want.
And even if it doesn't match my
aesthetic or my thought process on
what is good pottery, functional pottery, like,
I can still have my opinion,
and believe me, I do.
But that shouldn't affect
how somebody feels about creating.
Right.
And that's important because, you know,
nothing is for everybody,
and everybody isn't for one thing. You know, so
you can't expect to fit everybody's, you know,
palm in their hand. Like, for example,
here's a mug I'm holding, right? Like,
this works for me.
This isn't going to work for somebody else.
But the creator of this shouldn't feel bad
that they made this, you know, oops. But that.
So that was the point.
And so that was always number one.
And then b, you know,
I wanted to create a cool,
cool space that looked good,
felt good and inspired people,
but wasn't imposing.
Sometimes you go
in studios and things like that,
and you feel the presence of.
Of the owner or you feel the
presence of the aesthetic of the studio,
and it kind of makes you think, oh,
this is sort of what I should
be maybe gearing myself
instead of just being like, okay, like, shit,
this is clay.
What am I going to make?
How do I do that? Oh, fuck. This is. Well,
it's crazy, but it's. I'm happy with it.
I'm going to go with it.
And so that was always,
always going to be the fabric of the studio.
But in terms of just, you know,
figuring out branding and
aesthetics and stuff like that, those things,
I had an idea, but they change, you know,
and your ideas and how you start,
oftentimes where you end up is very different.
But the core,
a moment that I just
remembered from when I was there,
that really captures what you just said,
was there was a plate being
made and it was getting really thin,
and this was on the wheel, and
then it split and it ripped along the sides,
and one half of the plate
just drooped down and became flat,
and the other half still stayed up,
but the rest of it was connected,
except for where it ripped.
And you were like, no, no, no, no.
Keep it.
Like, don't trash it. Put that in the kiln.
That is really. It is.
And I was like,
he's got a really good point. Like,
that is sick.
And so I have that now.
I took it and, like, it got fired.
And I was just like, yeah,
they didn't want it. So I was like,
I'm gonna keep that,
if that's okay. Like, you mind, like.
And I put that on my coffee table. It's dope.
Yeah. Well, that's it, right? And that is.
Oftentimes when you get into the depth
of something creative or something
just that you're building and working on,
you lose that feeling of like,
this is just cool.
And I wouldn't keep.
Likely wouldn't keep that plate for myself,
but I know the feeling that
you have when you're like, yeah, this is cool.
And that's something that I never want to
take away from somebody and impart on somebody,
that this actually isn't cool
unless they come to me and say, hey,
do you think that this mug is too heavy?
And I'll hold it and I'll say,
you know what? Yeah,
it feels a bit heavy for this handle.
And we teach, that we teach,
we teach people to be
aware of function and feeling. And we don't.
We're not just like,
everything is great, it's art. Yeah. You know,
but we never
want somebody to not have this, like,
just cool feeling about what they're creating.
And I'm glad you said that
because when people make these like,
funky plates in our,
in our one off classes
which happens or bowls or whatever,
it rips and they go, you know,
I could touch one.
Hey, man, look, like, it's art now. Like,
it's beautiful. You made this. Like,
let's fire this shit and glaze it.
You're gonna love it.
And we've had people like, you know, say,
not trash it. I don't
want it. And da, da, da. And fine, you know,
I'm not going to force you to keep your, your,
your plate or whatever,
your bowl or whatever.
But that's a beautiful thing.
And that to me was what I remember
loving about pottery and ceramics.
And I want to see that in the space.
And that's what to me, like,
if we lose that,
if I start to realize that I'm coming
in there and I'm imparting some
sort of different energy in the studio,
I gotta step away.
And that's,
that's a reality because it can happen, right?
And like I go in there now and I
see people like making a mess and
not cleaning the thing properly
or putting the thing in the wrong place.
I gotta say something. Hey, you know,
this is not how we do this here.
You can't put the clay in the, you know,
the glaze bucket.
That's not how it works.
And you gotta
try and approach things as like, you know, nice
as you can without stifling people. Those are,
those are important things.
I get a lot of shit for that, right?
Like put the chairs the right way or put
this here or do that here. But that's, those
are just function and that's, that's, that,
that's what we set out. Those are rules.
But outside of that, how you create,
go for it, man. Have fun. Like just,
just express yourself.
That sounds very cool.
Hey, nerdpreneurs. Before we finish off
this interview with Andres from Mud Lab.
I actually wanted to invite
you on a little side quest. This quest,
if you choose to accept it,
is to check out patreon.com
nerdpreneur I'll link it in the show notes.
That's where you can sign up to be
a member of our awesome nerdpreneur board. Now,
like most side quests,
you don't actually have to do it, but
if you do sign up to be a member of our board,
it's going to help you level up faster,
gain more skills,
and it'll be really fun,
just like a good side quest.
Now board members get extended
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Take this Mud Lab episode, for example.
If you sign up to be a member of our board,
you'd get to hear Andres talk about
how he got really good at teaching
his keys to hiring great people,
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The end of this conversation
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So if you want to hear it, go to patreon.com
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so our full uninterrupted episodes
get to to land in your podcatcher.
Thanks for listening. Now,
let's get back to the show. Well,
let's go into some random rolls.
Yes. As far as the random roll section goes,
did you get the link for the online dice?
Oh, I did, yeah. Let's.
Let's crack this open here. One sec. Okay,
walk me through what we're doing here.
Again, there is a quick roll tab, and
on that are a bunch of different D2, D3, D4.
All the way at the right is D100.
So just click that and tell us.
What number and 100.
Okay, we got 23.
23. That is. Do you follow any sports?
And why not?
Religiously? And I never have.
I played competitive tennis growing up.
I played at university
and coached for many years.
We didn't have a TV growing up.
We lost our TV when I was like 11.
And so that just stopped me from engaging with
anything like televised or anything like that.
And I just never,
never got the habit
of watching sports, like watching, you know,
playoff games and getting
into things when there's a lot of hype.
But I don't follow any sports unless.
You consider pottery a sport.
A sport. I tell people, I say,
this is a tough sport.
I think you do mention That
I always say that it's
a tough sport on your body because, you know,
you're hunched over and it's very physical.
But yeah, okay, here. Oh, shit. Okay,
we got 92.
If your life were a movie right now,
what would the title be?
Geez.
Hecticness.
Yeah. I think maybe like not unknown,
but kind of like. Yeah, I don't know. Hectic
might be a good hecticness. Yeah, that's.
That's an interesting question.
I think the fact that I don't have an answer
says a lot about where my life is at.
It's a very interesting time. Just
in terms of how much you want me to go into.
Shoot shit out as long as you want.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sometimes people
are like rapid fire and I'm like, you know,
I really feel like what I want to say we.
Have rapid fire after this,
but these are a little bit longer, if you want.
Okay. Yeah, no, it's, you know, it's an
interesting time in my life because, you know,
the business is doing really well where I'm
thinking of expanding or opening up some sort
of side business that's related but different.
And my acting career is doing really well.
And there's a lot,
like up in the air,
but a lot that has
grown and developed and it's like,
what's coming up next? I don't know.
No one ever really does, but like, in my field,
in terms of acting
and other stuff that I do, like, there's just.
You just never know what's going to happen.
And the trajectory is that
I'm going to hopefully just
continue to do well and grow in that. And
then I have this business, like what I want.
Do I want to expand,
Do I want to sell?
Do I want to do this? And these are like,
serious questions because they affect.
They affect how, you know,
not only I move,
but how hundreds of
people that I have now created
this community with are affected. Right.
And do we.
Do we change things up
or do we go the same and da, da, da. So, like,
where I'm at in my life is
very reflective on what I've built.
Not so much about, like,
what do I just want to do?
And that's something that I've never
really had to consider in my life,
is that when I make a decision,
it affects a large amount of people, you know,
not in a serious way,
but it affects the
way that they operate or whatever.
And so it's an interesting place. Yeah.
It's not just about you anymore.
Right.
You have a whole thing You've built
with people and you pay people
and you've got community. I mean, like, it's.
It's that responsibility you have,
but also something that's probably.
You must feel a lot of pride around that, too,
or proud of the whole thing.
Yeah, you know, Yeah, I am. I am now. I'm. I'm.
I'm really proud. But again, like, I,
I'm so lucky
with the people that I have, that have.
Have come into
my life through this, but have, you know,
committed and dedicated to the studio. Like, I,
I built this.
There's no doubt about it.
But we wouldn't be
anything without the people that, that we have.
And so I'm like, I'm just. I'm almost, like,
proud that I didn't
manage to fuck this up, like, with people,
because that I don't think a lot of.
I don't think it's talked
enough about in terms of, like, business.
And when you have an idea, like you, unless
you're just doing something on your own, like,
you have to learn how to handle yourself
around people and how to communicate
your ideas and get things done in a way
that is mutually beneficial and is, you know,
that's the toughest thing is for me is.
And I say dealing with people,
I don't mean that in a negative way,
but having to interact with
people on a daily basis in a
business or a boss setting, like, that's tough.
Do that the right way.
And the fact that I still have
the same people that I started with
and that people haven't just up and quit,
a few people have left.
You know, not everything's perfect, but
the fact that the majority of folks are still,
still here and they're happy
says that I think that's
what I'm most proud of. Because, you know,
I know that I'm a fun, outgoing guy. Hey,
Andres is a good, fun dude, but, like,
I'm not always the easiest person to deal with.
There's no doubt about that.
And when I have an idea,
I want something done. Like,
I'm going to get it done or want to get.
And that can rub people the wrong way.
And so that's what I think I'm most proud of,
is that I've learned that has been the
hardest lesson for me, and again, not perfect.
It's been a long
journey of discovery in that capacity.
But when people say,
you must be so proud you built this. Yeah,
I'm proud of the community and I'm
proud that I've changed and I've grown, I've
developed and matured a lot through this. That
is what I am without a doubt, the most proud.
Nice. Well, we're going to transition
into the rapid fire section.
Cool.
So good luck.
No long winded answers.
I'll try my best. Godspeed.
First one I want to fire off
here is within five words or less.
How would you define a nerd.
Super fixated on something nice.
DC or Marvel?
Neither.
Favorite Spider man actor.
Could not name one.
An actor that I see that I see their faces.
And that's bad.
And I shouldn't be interrupting you,
but I see their faces and Tom Holland.
Is that a guy? I think.
Yeah, that's it.
Toby Maguire. There you go.
Let's go see another Toby fan. Thank you.
I was wondering,
the Kirsten Dunst scene, you know,
that lives in my mind.
The upside down one.
Yes. That was him, right?
Yeah, it was. That was correct. See,
he got the right answer on that one.
What is your go to karaoke song?
Sweet Child of mine?
Although I should never sing that in public.
How many cats is too many cats?
I say one,
but it's gonna piss off a lot of people,
so I'll say three.
Three.
All right.
Wow.
A man of the people.
We're okay pissing off.
And three cats.
Man of the people.
Yeah. Three cats is a lot.
Two of you got friends, and three,
you're doing it for yourself.
So anyway,
which Harry Potter book
or movie hit you the hardest?
Never read a book.
Couldn't remember the name of the movie.
You've never read a book that's never.
Read a Harry Potter book?
I could probably list the amount
of books I've read on two hands.
I've never read a Harry Potter.
That's how you have all this
time to do all the things you
say that you do is no books, no tv, no movies?
Kind of something like that.
But I've gotten a lot more into
movies and TVs lately. TVs, TV shows. Just.
Just because I'm. I'm.
I'm slower now. Like, I'm not.
I don't always have to do something.
I kind of want to sit back sometimes.
So I've been watching a little
more TV and movies and stuff like that.
But reading is. I love reading. I just.
I never take the
time to be inspired to read. But that way.
Fair enough.
Is there any
subscription you can't live without?
No.
What is the last TV show you.
Watched that I finished?
No, and if you didn't finish, please say why.
The last. Okay.
The last one that I watched, like,
as of like a night ago was House of Cards.
I just started that,
but I don't really.
It's a little long draw.
I'm sure it's great, but I just.
I don't have the page.
I got through season
one and then I was like, cool. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm sure it's phenomenal. I just. Yeah.
I personally,
I rewatched Breaking Bad not too long
ago and that was the last one. And I, like,
I remember I stopped at season four
because I was just binging so
insanely and I had to just stop.
I never went back to it,
and I just went for it this time.
And I've got the whole thing in, like.
I don't even want to say how many days it was.
It was not a lot of days.
So that was epic as shit, man.
That's not a lot of days,
not a lot of sleep
and not a lot of showering. Got it.
If you're going to crack out on one thing,
Breaking Bad is probably
the best thing to crack out on.
Honestly.
There's a lot of
shows you can crack out on. Yeah.
And not be paid off at the end. And it's.
It's worth it.
That one rock solid show.
If you could spontaneously learn to play
a musical instrument or learn a language,
which one would you choose?
Wow. I'd say musical instrument.
Do you know what one you would want to play?
Piano comes to mind right
away because I never played the piano.
My dad was a guitarist and a bass player and I
can like strum a few chords and this and that,
and that's something I can teach myself.
Piano is so foreign to me.
We had a piano.
My mom had my brother in piano lessons,
but it was just not something
that I was ever presented with. I played
the drums and so piano would be, I think,
something that I would love to learn. Yep.
One of my best friends is an
exceptional jazz pianist and he just
inspires me every time he's on that thing.
So I, Yeah.
Would love to learn the piano.
My last rapid fire for you is, do you
collect anything that you're embarrassed about?
Man? Frank, you don't gotta look too far to
find embarrassing things about me as an actor.
What are you saying?
Just as a human being, Like, I
am an exceptionally embarrassing guy. Like, I.
And I think.
I think
that's a good thing. You know, I'm. I'm very.
I can be very self conscious about, like,
what people think and not so
much like what they think of me,
like what I look like, what I. How I dress.
That Was something that I, you know,
as a kid or a teenager or whatever. Like,
those were the things that
you think about now as an adult. Like my,
my extreme insecurity
is how people perceive my intentions.
I said this the wrong way.
I didn't mean that.
I rubbed this person the wrong way.
Those are the things that I can, like,
I stay up at night thinking about.
I shouldn't have said that. Like,
I didn't mean it
like that they're gonna think that. But
in terms of like my day to day person, like,
I don't give a shit, man. Like, I am,
I am a dumbass goofball. And like, I just,
I don't care what people
think of me in that capacity. Yeah, it's hard,
it's hard to embarrass me in
terms of like the things that
people would think are embarrassing if,
whatever my life goes.
I feel like that's a trend
with actors a lot of the time. I resonate
with what you just said. It's, you know,
there's things I stay up thinking about.
You know how I said that?
But it's also like, man, you know what? Like,
I've performed and done some dumb shit
on stage in front of a bunch of people.
This is nothing compared to that for sure.
For sure. But again, like, that's goes
back to kind of, you know, what's important,
because that's me.
I said that thing that reflects on me,
that thing that I did up on stage.
Maybe I wrote it, maybe I didn't, but
it was like I had to do that for that moment.
And maybe that lives on camera somewhere
or whatever. Like, fair enough. But like,
you're gonna judge that thing. That's not a,
that's not a showing of my character.
And if somebody judges you or
character based on something like that,
that's the kind of person that. There's
nothing you can do about that and whatever.
That's probably the kind
of person I can associate with anyway.
But it's the things that you do and
say that reflect on you as an individual,
and rightfully so.
People will judge your character or
assume things about you based on
the things that come out of your mouth.
And those are the things that I, you know,
I just like, yeah,
get in my head.
I have one last question.
Hit me, man.
Is there anything else you want?
Any advice or wisdom that you feel like,
you know what?
I didn't get a chance to say this,
and I'd love to say it before we wrap up.
I think,
I think a lot,
a lot of Good things.
You guys asked
a lot of really good questions. Actually,
I really enjoyed this,
this conversation, you know,
in terms of just like entrepreneurship
and stuff like that. I think, you know,
having been someone who has dibble dabbled
in a handful of little things here, you know,
and I'm really growing in that capacity.
I don't know
a lot and I have a lot to learn. But I,
I would just say to anybody that is
wanting to start a business or wanting
to turn whatever they're doing into, you know,
make it somehow scalable
or make money from it or whatever, just
like have genuine curiosity and passion in,
in the thing, you know.
And that's not always
necessary to start a business.
I had a window washing
and power washing company in college.
Was I passionate about window washing?
Actually I nerded out on window washing.
I got made fun of a lot because I would like
practice window washing in my, in my house.
But just like find, you know,
yourself interested in the thing that
you are trying to monetize or pursue. And
if you don't have that genuine interest in it,
it's probably not going to be sustainable.
If you want something to be sustainable and
not every business has to be a long term thing.
You can, you
can start something and sell it or pass it
on or move on to the next thing, that's fine.
There's nothing wrong with that.
And things fail and succeed, whatever,
but you want to really find
something that you're going to have
that like you never work a day in
your life when you do something you love,
which is bullshit,
you work every day,
but it doesn't feel like work,
you better make sure that you're
just interested in that thing, you know.
And I think when people are like,
find your passion.
That's a bit of a word that has always kind
of tripped me up because it's like, you know,
and that's what they used to
always say in business school.
Find your passion. What's your passion?
And I'm like, I don't know.
But what I've always found worked is that
I just find curiosity in something and then
that's going to do the problem solving, right?
You encounter a problem, you're like, well, I
want to figure this out because I'm interested,
not because so much that like I have to,
because I doing a business,
like there's that side of it too.
But if you don't have that
curiosity or that interest in something,
it's a lot harder to take the steps to push
stuff forward and grow in anything you do.
So that would be like the thing
that I've learned the most in terms of
why I've had any success in something
is because I just find an interest in it.
I just nerd out on it, basically.
That's great.
I'm glad I asked. Thank you.
Yeah, I'm glad that question got out too.
Right on, guys.
Well, this has been great. Where can people,
if they want to take a class or support you
or find you or hire you as an actor, who knows?
Where can we find you?
Yeah. Mudlab CA is our website.
Mud Lab Pottery, that's our studio.
Hashtag get muddy.
Hashtag get muddy. There you go. Yeah.
And I'm on Instagram. Andres x Joseph. Yeah,
you can check me out there.
I've got some fun
stuff going on there. But yeah, yeah, awesome.
Pretty much it.
Well, thanks so much for
coming on and as always,
everybody keep it nerdy.
Sa.