WEBVTT Kind: captions; Language: en NOTE There were 2 speakers identified in this transcript. Podium recommends using "Find and Replace" to change the speaker label to the appropriate name. Speaker separation errors can arise when multiple speakers speak simultaneously. 00:00.140 --> 00:01.083 How safe do you feel in? 00:01.123 --> 00:01.906 your relationships. 00:03.190 --> 00:07.061 And let me stress that by safe I don't necessarily mean healthy. 00:07.863 --> 00:09.466 It could mean familiar. 00:10.268 --> 00:20.301 It can mean that you're so used to it that it feels comfortable, even if it's uncomfortable, and this is something that many people face, right, I know I've been there. 00:20.522 --> 00:36.461 I was in a toxic relationship that I stayed in far longer than I needed to or should have, because it felt familiar, and that uncertainty of being alone is a lot scarier than lonely with something new. 00:37.083 --> 00:45.711 And something new could actually mean spending more time with yourself, being safe in your own skin and with who you are and by yourself. 00:45.900 --> 00:49.291 Many people feel this pain, and it could come from childhood trauma. 00:49.901 --> 00:55.947 It could come from being in a relationship that you had that was not positive, and now you're bringing that into your new relationship. 00:56.941 --> 00:58.708 But how do we nip that in the bud? 00:59.941 --> 01:08.128 And you know, on the show on HIListically Speaking, I bring the best of the best when it comes to experts in their field, and that is why Jessica Baum is joining us. 01:08.200 --> 01:09.546 She is a licensed psychotherapist. 01:10.160 --> 01:22.073 She is a bestselling author of Anxiously Attached Becoming More Secure in your Life and Love, and now she has a new book coming out specifically focusing on safe. 01:22.720 --> 01:24.763 In fact, that's the title of the book Safe, focusing on safe. 01:24.784 --> 01:30.794 In fact, that's the title of the book Safe Coming home to yourself and others an attachment, informed guide to building secure relationships. 01:37.707 --> 01:47.181 Jessica, we can never talk about this topic enough, and I'm so glad you're here, I'm so excited to be here and, yes, it is such an important topic and a complex topic and one that we all need a lot of information on, because we all desire those safe relationships. 01:47.622 --> 01:56.581 You know we have a lot of areas we can go into when we do this work in therapy and different kinds of approaches to helping people on their emotional well-being journey. 01:57.642 --> 02:01.428 What was your reason for focusing on relationships? 02:01.729 --> 02:16.299 And I know you have the Relationship Institute in Palm Beach, florida- but what was your why for wanting to go into that area and really design your business around that? 02:17.180 --> 02:19.894 You know, I think that I mean I'm an imago therapist, which is a couples counselor, and I've worked in addiction and with codependency. 02:19.914 --> 02:27.831 But when I learned attachment theory and when I mean really studied attachment theory, it explained a lot of my suffering, like I. 02:27.871 --> 02:59.620 You know, the word codependency doesn't really mean anything to me anymore because I understand attachment theory on like a neurobiological level and I think, personally and professionally and what I see in the world is so many of us struggle with attachment issues, you know insecurities, adaptations, patterns, and when I really understood how many people are suffering in the way that I had when I was younger, before I did some deeper work, I just I like people, I just knew people needed this information. 02:59.801 --> 03:06.308 I just it just filled in the gap for so many people and so, yeah, it was just, it was huge. 03:06.349 --> 03:15.320 For me, attachment is everything and when we have healthy, secure attachments in our lives, we like literally thrive, but if we don't, our lives are literally miserable. 03:15.541 --> 03:21.380 So really understanding and like what you said in your intro, like we stay in the familiar for a lot of reasons. 03:21.500 --> 03:37.334 And I spent a lot of time unpacking that compassionately in this book like there are deep psychological and implicit reasons as to why we stay in what we know and want to resolve our trauma, often in situations that only perpetuate and recreate it. 03:38.060 --> 03:39.484 Yeah, beautifully said. 03:40.065 --> 03:43.313 You really hit the nail on the head when you titled this book safe. 03:45.980 --> 03:53.373 You really hit the nail on the head when you titled this book safe, because it is something that I that a lot of people struggle with and maybe they don't know it's safety. 03:53.654 --> 03:59.573 You know that beautiful amygdala of ours is designed to go to the negative anyway to keep us safe. 03:59.861 --> 04:14.727 They say that the whole idea of it's not you, it's your brain, it's doing what it's designed to do, say that the whole idea of it's not you, it's your brain, it's doing what it's designed to do, but in that it impacts your entire body, this somatic side of your body, the emotional side of your body, the autonomic side of your body and the cognitive side. 04:15.309 --> 04:22.710 So where can we stress to people that are tuning in that the idea of safety is possible? 04:23.071 --> 04:27.723 Yeah, I mean listen, that the idea of safety is possible. 04:27.743 --> 04:45.797 Yeah, I mean, listen, the interesting thing about safety is we can't fake, fake safety, Right, and it starts actually with safe relationships with others and those safe relationships allowing you to be present with what's going on inside of you and you know I think you know, we can think that a relationship is safe. 04:45.857 --> 05:00.005 It can start out feeling very safe and then, you know, our wounds come up and our patterns come up and things can start to feel really unsafe if we're really unconscious in those relationships and we don't get conscious as to what is really being awakened inside of us. 05:00.346 --> 05:03.413 So yeah, healing starts in safe relationships. 05:03.553 --> 05:15.070 I'm a firm believer that it can happen in romantic relationships, but it does take two people willing to get conscious about what's really going on inside them to create a container of safety, to evolve. 05:15.571 --> 05:22.438 Or it takes another safe relationship I call them anchors in our lives to help hold what we're holding in our body. 05:22.598 --> 05:25.883 So a lot of the book is about you know the body keeps the score. 05:25.983 --> 05:30.841 It's about how we're holding attachment wounds in our body and the science around that. 05:30.901 --> 05:42.403 It's not woo-woo Like I actually unpacked the science around implicit memory and stored memory and attachment wounds in the body, and we need safe people to start to even understand what that is. 05:43.285 --> 05:50.570 So are there certain steps that you do go through in this book to make it easy for people to understand, especially when you're in it? 05:50.630 --> 05:56.850 It's very hard to see how to change anything when you're actually in the upset. 05:57.451 --> 05:59.054 You know when you're in the duress. 05:59.561 --> 06:18.208 So if someone is listening and tuning in and we have an amazing, amazing listenership here and I just want to give people options or if they know somebody, what would be the first thing that this book could be beneficial to give them like a companion guide? 06:18.389 --> 06:23.444 Oh yeah, I mean, the book does so much and it would be hard for me to like kind of narrow it down. 06:23.484 --> 06:26.809 But it talks about what type of relationships actually heal us. 06:27.009 --> 06:30.014 From a scientific level it talks about implicit memory. 06:30.094 --> 06:42.107 So it talks about how to start to notice what is going on in the here and now and through sensations, and what our original memory system is, how to connect that to the original wound. 06:42.648 --> 06:50.207 So hopefully, when you read the book you get a guide and it comes with somatic meditations that I give you, even separately. 06:50.708 --> 07:06.260 But you come out realizing that that feeling in your gut or that feeling in your heart or the way your muscles are feeling, have more to do than what's just happening in the here and now, and that your body is holding on to attachment stories and attachment memories. 07:06.561 --> 07:11.092 And so we start to create like awareness around what is going on inside of you. 07:11.500 --> 07:21.113 We developed something called interoception in the book, which is the ability to kind of really tune into the body and really start listening to your body and develop a new relationship with your body. 07:21.420 --> 07:24.781 It's not a weekend read, it's a companion one that I hope you bring to your anchors or your body. 07:24.743 --> 07:24.988 It's not a weekend read. 07:24.949 --> 07:43.604 It's a companion one that I hope you bring to your anchors or your therapist, like it is teaching you to kind of really become conscious of what might be going on inside of you, so that you don't keep repeating the same quote, unquote, trauma bond and automatic nervous system cycles that you might get stuck in, which can make you miserable as you know. 07:43.925 --> 07:44.186 Yeah. 07:44.588 --> 07:45.632 And you mentioned anchors. 07:45.712 --> 07:49.063 For those who aren't familiar with that, what exactly is an anchor? 07:49.624 --> 08:00.493 So I study interpersonal neurobiology and in the practice and the philosophy that I study is that you can't heal unless you have healing relationships. 08:01.361 --> 08:05.712 And so what was wounded early in relationship can only heal in relationship. 08:05.752 --> 08:09.268 So we need to re-experience things in a healing relationship. 08:09.769 --> 08:11.962 It doesn't mean that has to be a therapist. 08:12.484 --> 08:19.207 I actually in the book, unpack what types of relationships are healing, because not everybody can afford a therapist. 08:19.227 --> 08:24.932 But an anchor is someone who holds space in a state of safety, for the most part right. 08:24.972 --> 08:32.416 No one is always in a state of safety or ventral, listens, is empathic towards you and allows you to share. 08:32.937 --> 08:36.966 And in the sharing you kind of dive deep into what's going on in your inner world. 08:37.568 --> 08:42.947 And I say that in order to build inner security we internalize anchors. 08:43.047 --> 08:45.132 So we have to internalize safe people. 08:45.252 --> 08:47.828 The same way an infant internalizes their parents. 08:48.490 --> 08:50.518 The parents are secure, they internalize that. 08:50.638 --> 08:54.429 As adults we get to re-internalize people again. 08:54.570 --> 09:01.125 So we use our anchors and we use supportive relationships as a way to re-anchor into security. 09:01.145 --> 09:04.210 That's just one of the methods but a big theme in the book. 09:04.470 --> 09:04.911 But what if? 09:05.011 --> 09:06.954 people don't feel any of that. 09:07.215 --> 09:08.737 What if people are struggling? 09:09.198 --> 09:13.567 And I imagine there's people listening right now that are like I don't have that. 09:13.969 --> 09:15.492 I don't have a person I can talk to. 09:16.200 --> 09:23.146 I don't feel like it's a safe place to talk to my partner, I don't think my friends are going to get it, or my family? 09:23.789 --> 09:25.599 Where do you start with something like that? 09:25.619 --> 09:30.881 I mean, obviously the first step is an awareness that something doesn't feel right in your body and your mind. 09:31.362 --> 09:31.983 So that's good. 09:32.024 --> 09:37.937 If you're feeling that you're tuning in and listening and saying you're pulling against that resistance, that's a good first step. 09:38.359 --> 09:41.034 But what do you do with that once you know that? 09:42.119 --> 09:46.194 Yeah, I mean it's such an important question that you're asking because people come to me all the time. 09:46.214 --> 09:53.316 Nick, I don't you're my safest person, you're the only one, and so sometimes you can find it in a room. 09:53.416 --> 10:02.363 Sometimes it's the aunt that you like and I talk about in the book how to kind of go through your Rolodex and see if there's anyone with the capacity. 10:02.970 --> 10:28.190 But I also want to let you know that in my experience, and what your nervous system starts to recognize is, it only takes one safe relationship to get vulnerable and have that experience for your nervous system to start to understand that that's what you want and crave and and I'm not a manifester, but our nervous systems will call in what we are experiencing. 10:28.390 --> 10:36.173 So if we can experience this with one person, one relationship can change the trajectory of your, of your healing process. 10:36.794 --> 10:39.942 So I'm not going to sit here and say you can do this on your own. 10:40.550 --> 10:44.118 There's parts that you can do on your own when it comes to healing. 10:44.559 --> 10:47.473 But we do need each other and I and I and I. 10:47.653 --> 10:53.786 I think it's important to say that because I don't want people to go home and read a self-help book and think they're going to heal their attachment wounds. 10:53.926 --> 10:57.597 All by themselves, right, that's like setting you up for failure. 10:58.238 --> 11:14.579 But I mean, and I have clients that are like I've been doing session with you, jess, and now I have a different level of intimacy or a different level of understanding, and now I'm looking for that and my nervous system starting to recognize that as more familiar or safe and I'm orienting to that. 11:14.939 --> 11:19.394 So it only takes one relationship to really start to change the blueprint. 11:19.935 --> 11:46.432 But we do need to find secure, healthy people to internalize and to start to do the work, and so that is a necessary component person that they didn't even think about or you know, someone they've lost touch with that does have a capacity to listen and really does care and look at you as a whole person or doesn't judge you or try to fix you. 11:46.913 --> 12:00.299 So after you start doing a little bit of the work and if not, you know there are therapists and coaches that hopefully can hold non-judgmental space and start to create the safety for you, and many people have to start that way as well, especially in our culture. 12:00.560 --> 12:00.800 Yeah. 12:00.820 --> 12:04.488 So let's just emphasize that it only takes one. 12:04.989 --> 12:10.648 Just remember that it only takes one and, like you said, like Jessica said, go through that Rolodex. 12:10.868 --> 12:17.573 Think about people who have been in your life, people who might've come back into your life, people you've lost touch with, because, really, we all have a story. 12:18.014 --> 12:23.905 We're all living on this big blue marble and trying to get through and make it a positive experience. 12:24.732 --> 12:27.426 Don't think for a moment that everyone's life is perfect. 12:27.949 --> 12:33.953 Right, there's always somebody and something happening In this digital age. 12:34.213 --> 12:42.093 We see the best of the best online, but we're always we're not seeing the battles that people are facing all the time, you know. 12:43.176 --> 12:47.293 And you'd be surprised I I in the book, I give you so much knowledge. 12:47.333 --> 12:48.375 I called co. 12:48.496 --> 12:53.814 I talk about co-anchors and if you're listening you're like I don't have someone like that. 12:53.914 --> 12:57.511 There are 10 other people that are saying I don't have someone like that. 12:57.691 --> 13:03.780 And it just takes a little vulnerability and courage and I give the instructions as how you can co-anchor each other. 13:03.870 --> 13:06.079 It's like, basically, co-regulation at its best. 13:06.630 --> 13:11.843 So sometimes what we do is we develop listening partnerships or we find people like that. 13:11.930 --> 13:13.697 We're not so dysregulated in our life. 13:13.850 --> 13:19.155 I can hold space for you and then you can hold space for me and we start to build these deeper containers with each other. 13:19.195 --> 13:29.962 So there are other people that are thinking just like you and it's like the scariest first step is finding some one person that you feel safe enough with. 13:30.122 --> 13:33.170 Yeah, Great, it's really about community. 13:33.431 --> 13:36.205 When we think about it, the word community is so important. 13:36.286 --> 13:47.564 We see people leading group coaching or just going out and having a group of sisters or friends or people that you're just meeting, that you can share with. 13:47.971 --> 13:52.903 You know it can make a big difference just being heard and knowing you're not alone in the battle. 13:53.210 --> 13:55.355 So, yeah, really important. 13:55.375 --> 13:56.538 That's the first step to safety. 13:57.200 --> 14:07.239 With that being said, I just want to mention to folks safe coming home to yourself and others, and attachment, informed guide to building secure relationships. 14:07.259 --> 14:07.761 Little thumbs up came up. 14:07.781 --> 14:08.765 These apps always have the all. 14:09.408 --> 14:13.459 At least it's a thumbs up right If you're tuning in or watching on YouTube. 14:14.121 --> 14:17.190 But this book is not your first. 14:17.611 --> 14:20.639 You had another book that came out, the Anxiously Attached. 14:20.760 --> 14:22.352 How do they differ? 14:22.793 --> 14:22.934 How? 14:22.974 --> 14:23.756 do these books differ? 14:25.320 --> 14:28.529 Anxiously Attached focuses on anxious attachment. 14:28.769 --> 14:30.253 Everyone loves Anxiously Attached. 14:30.293 --> 14:31.616 It's a great starter. 14:31.777 --> 14:34.283 It talks about the anxious avoidance dance a lot. 14:34.370 --> 14:36.596 It talks about building inner security. 14:36.636 --> 14:38.201 A lot about the abandonment wound. 14:39.083 --> 14:45.965 Safe talks about all attachment styles and all wounds and that we never are really just one. 14:46.025 --> 14:47.590 We can show up in different relationships. 14:48.292 --> 14:51.319 And safe dives deep into the science of healing. 14:51.901 --> 15:02.935 So it's not just about attachment but it's about understanding the attachment wounds from the inside out what it's like to be a baby, what these patterns feel like, what our parents are going through. 15:03.396 --> 15:05.301 But SAFE talks about the neural net. 15:05.401 --> 15:11.821 It literally talks about how the healing process unfolds from a neurobiological level. 15:12.322 --> 15:14.492 Because I want people to have the science. 15:14.673 --> 15:16.658 I don't want this to just be like a book. 15:16.718 --> 15:17.099 Do this. 15:17.179 --> 15:21.035 I want you to say okay, and I'm in this healing process and this is what's happening. 15:21.075 --> 15:22.518 My neural nets are opening. 15:22.578 --> 15:24.382 My response flexibility. 15:24.422 --> 15:25.604 Time is changing. 15:26.031 --> 15:27.715 This is what this wound feels like. 15:27.815 --> 15:28.657 This is where you know. 15:28.717 --> 15:29.359 It's a more. 15:29.740 --> 15:32.516 It's a deeper dive into attachment theory. 15:32.656 --> 15:43.276 And it's for everyone, because, even though I identify as anxiously attached, I actually feel very secure in my life now and I've done a lot of work since the first book, I have avoidant protectors. 15:43.871 --> 15:45.999 I had disorganized pockets in my life. 15:46.110 --> 16:00.120 So I talk about how, even if we can feel like we identify with one attachment style, we actually are never rarely just one and we have different embedded responses in different relationships and I really I paint the whole picture for you. 16:00.220 --> 16:04.534 So you're going to, you're going to walk away with a much deeper understanding of attachment. 16:04.695 --> 16:15.072 Here's what I love as well as a therapist and this is something I think has changed in the world of therapy and emotional wellbeing is that therapists are becoming more real. 16:15.914 --> 16:17.919 And I've got stuff too Right. 16:18.440 --> 16:20.686 So when you share that, I think it and I've got stuff too right. 16:20.706 --> 16:24.154 So when you share that, I think it creates more of a human realism. 16:24.174 --> 16:30.700 You know Jessica's been through stuff, you know Hilary's been through stuff and we're all just humans walking each other home here. 16:30.890 --> 16:41.898 So just being able to understand what your attachment style is and that you had to do the work yourself makes you a better therapist, makes you a better human being a better woman. 16:42.150 --> 16:50.702 So these are the important things and these are the kind of therapists and practitioners that I love talking to, because if you've been through it, you're going to understand it more. 16:50.790 --> 16:57.699 It doesn't mean you have to be through the same battle or the same upset, but just knowing that nobody's life is perfect. 16:58.771 --> 17:00.458 This is how we grow and learn, you know. 17:01.650 --> 17:22.951 Yeah, I so appreciate that when I wrote Anxiously Attached, I was doing a lot of deep work with my current partner, who decided that he didn't want to do the deep work at a certain point, which was devastating for me, you know, especially for someone in my position, and losing him brought up all my abandonment wounds again and I talked really openly about that. 17:22.991 --> 17:41.252 It was a very humbling experience and you're absolutely right, like I had pockets of disorganization, I had deep wounds to heal and it was like, just because I'm an expert and I study, I wish that would bypass the work, but it doesn't and I'm not embarrassed to share it because I just really want. 17:41.592 --> 17:52.115 I want to help people and yeah, I'm human too and I got to walk the walk and we don't know what that is sometimes when we're walking into it, but with the right support we can just keep going. 17:52.195 --> 17:53.903 We can keep going through it Great. 17:54.144 --> 18:02.695 Thanks for sharing that so beautiful, and I totally resonate with that myself, because when you're going through it, you don't see it, you don't know how to get out of it. 18:02.790 --> 18:08.116 It almost feels like you are at the bottom of the ocean and you cannot find a way to pull yourself up. 18:08.157 --> 18:23.740 When you're at the bottom of the barrel and being able to do the work and learn through it and just having some tools even if you're in the work yourself can also have that feeling of imposter syndrome can come up because you're like I should know better, I shouldn't have been in a relationship like this. 18:24.191 --> 18:39.897 I remember feeling that way, but for those of you who might feel that as well because that can come up like I'm an established person or I've built an empire or I'm a great mom and how did this happen to me? 18:39.997 --> 18:48.859 I'm a good person that feeling of what did I do comes up, like what did I do wrong, and that can be very heavy, you know. 18:49.810 --> 18:53.496 Yeah, I really talk about implicit attraction. 18:53.757 --> 19:00.217 So I talk about like what maybe the listener will want to term as like unconscious, but it's really not unconscious. 19:00.891 --> 19:16.152 But we're attracted to particular people for a variety of reasons, like physical attributes, pheromones, but the long term trajectory of a relationship comes down to implicit information in our body and what we expect from relationship. 19:16.893 --> 19:34.320 I deeply unpack that because I, you know, I loved my ex-partner and he had a lot of traits that were similar to my father growing up, and I talk about it, and the work that I did was to get conscious of my original wound, and so it was a portal in. 19:35.082 --> 19:37.434 I wish he would have done the work with me. 19:37.494 --> 19:39.201 I mean, I think we all wish that. 19:39.241 --> 19:40.526 I think he wishes that too. 19:40.627 --> 19:44.637 But the work is hard and you can't force another person to do the work. 19:44.737 --> 19:48.813 Although in my book I talk about many couples do do the work together. 19:48.953 --> 20:04.274 So many people are, you know, lucky enough to get conscious, but you know it's it takes a certain kind of person to be able to walk through that fire. 20:04.294 --> 20:14.161 So I just think that we are attracted to what we know and leaning on safe people and doing the work is usually the unfamiliar and and it feels scary and hard and, if you're listening, like a listening partner. 20:14.824 --> 20:41.373 But that is actually how we start to reorient towards a whole new way of being, and so we want to try to not go to what we know and start to form relationships that feel different to our nervous system, safer, so that we can reprogram ourselves I hate that word but re-experience new ways of relating that become healthier, and they become the new benchmarks to moving forward into healthier romantic partnerships. 20:41.513 --> 20:44.464 I mean that's where I go into family dynamics. 20:44.524 --> 20:52.032 In this book it's not just romance but like let's face it, like romance is where a lot of our implicit or our trauma kind of gets recreated. 20:52.192 --> 20:54.700 Right, I love that you're using the word re-experience. 20:56.990 --> 21:04.716 I like that better too, than reprogramming, because it sounds more human than a computer, which a lot of times we hear the analogies like this is like an operating system. 21:04.850 --> 21:09.021 You know it is, but we're humans, so re-experiencing. 21:09.503 --> 21:12.738 We all want good experiences and that's a beautiful way of putting it. 21:13.390 --> 21:22.731 So just to remind you this book Safe Coming Home to Yourself and Others, an attachment, informed guide to building secure relationships. 21:23.373 --> 21:28.544 I'm going to have this available on the podcast platform on HIListically Speaking. 21:28.650 --> 21:34.513 But also, don't forget, we have the HIListically Speaking book nook and my authors who have been on this show. 21:34.533 --> 21:36.040 The books will be there for you, so I will have the book. 21:36.060 --> 21:37.990 I will have the HIListically Speaking Book Nook and my authors who have been on this show. 21:39.950 --> 21:41.476 The books will be there for you, so I will have the book. 21:41.496 --> 21:45.050 I will have the information on Jessica available for you to get in touch with her and learn more about her programs and the book. 21:45.070 --> 21:49.479 So, stress not, it will be there for you to help you be safe. 21:50.160 --> 21:51.302 So I'm for your. 21:51.442 --> 21:52.264 I have something special. 21:52.410 --> 21:53.776 Oh, please share yes. 21:54.499 --> 21:59.635 I have a blueprint on attachment labels deeper so a deeper dive. 21:59.836 --> 22:01.199 So they can get that immediately. 22:01.339 --> 22:10.116 And I have a recording of me and my mentor, who's in her eighties, who's has studied this stuff forever, talking about inner security and what that feels like. 22:10.657 --> 22:13.671 So for those of your listeners who buy it, we'll give you the link. 22:14.972 --> 22:20.358 They will get those special free offers with it, so it'll give them a jumpstart. 22:20.398 --> 22:21.159 Love that. 22:21.239 --> 22:24.762 Love that so much so we'll actually add that to the podcast as well. 22:24.782 --> 22:27.405 So everything's available for folks to grab the book. 22:27.785 --> 22:34.495 Amazing, that's a beautiful offer, and hearing the mentorship. 22:34.515 --> 22:35.096 How was that for you? 22:35.116 --> 22:40.056 Listen, I just feel like you know, certain people come into your life. 22:41.258 --> 22:58.415 I, this woman, came into my life helping me edit my first book, and her name's Bonnie Bannanock, and she has studied interpersonal neurobiology for like over 20 years, to the point where I, even if I studied every day, I could never register the amount of information and compassion that she held. 22:59.237 --> 23:03.514 And from the moment I met her, I was just like I just need more of this. 23:03.635 --> 23:04.156 What is this? 23:04.457 --> 23:10.477 And it was the wisdom and it was safety and it was neurobiology, and she just became my mentor. 23:11.318 --> 23:12.260 She helped me find a therapist. 23:12.580 --> 23:15.526 She has single-handedly changed my life. 23:15.866 --> 23:25.976 I am so incredibly grateful and you know, and so just listening to her and I just get so much wisdom from her and so many people follow her. 23:26.056 --> 23:28.126 She's she's written the heart of trauma. 23:28.327 --> 23:31.716 She's the therapist that therapists go to for learning. 23:32.238 --> 23:40.578 So she's um, she I've been just so lucky to have the right, safe support come into my life and help me kind of create this book. 23:40.618 --> 23:42.603 So she's been a, she's been a big part of it. 23:42.910 --> 23:43.893 I'm just very grateful. 23:44.254 --> 23:46.680 So, listen, we're going to put that in the book nook. 23:47.201 --> 23:50.681 We have more information that you can find in the notes of this podcast. 23:51.043 --> 24:13.273 If this conversation touch, moves and inspires you in any way, if anything that Jessica is sharing or that I said is something that you feel will resonate with somebody else, could help someone else or even yourself, like, go a little deeper, consider paying it forward, passing it along, you know, leave a comment or a rating review so that we know that this is making a difference. 24:13.554 --> 24:20.995 It'll allow more ears and eyes to get on this episode and this conversation and touch more people, because that's really what it's about. 24:21.156 --> 24:25.675 It's about community, it's about making a difference in the world, it's about serving others, isn't it? 24:26.077 --> 24:36.758 Absolutely, and if you're listening and you're struggling in your relationship and you're just like, here I am again, I just want you to know you are so not alone and you know. 24:36.798 --> 24:40.233 I hope this information gets to you so you can put some of the pieces together. 24:40.393 --> 24:41.476 And yeah, I just. 24:41.596 --> 24:43.822 I just want people to not feel alone Like we are. 24:43.942 --> 24:45.075 We are in this together. 24:45.155 --> 24:46.783 We're all trying to help each other out here. 24:46.804 --> 24:47.386 Beautiful. 24:47.487 --> 24:49.731 What are you hoping will come from this book? 24:50.552 --> 25:02.499 I hope that people who are interested in attachment theory there's a lot out there will see this as very innovative in a new way and I think it paints compassion for even narcissistic wounds. 25:02.599 --> 25:13.006 It paints such a compassionate lens for how we get wounded and how that plays out in our life and what we attract that I just, I hope it just, enlightens the reader. 25:13.086 --> 25:20.783 I hope the reader, I hope every reader walks away somewhat shifted or creating some insight in their life that you know impacts them. 25:21.330 --> 25:22.172 Yeah, beautiful. 25:22.674 --> 25:25.121 All right, that's the heavy stuff we're getting out of the way. 25:25.161 --> 25:26.033 Let's have a little fun. 25:26.094 --> 25:31.495 I want to have a little fun with you, so I do a thing on this show that I've been doing for years, called the brain candy game. 25:31.936 --> 25:36.572 This is basically a rapid fire game, so we're going to put the neurons to work. 25:37.434 --> 25:45.387 I'm going to throw out a word that you said during this episode, and what I want you to do, miss Jessica, is come back with the first word that comes to mind. 25:45.709 --> 25:47.632 Have a little fun here, have a little fun. 25:47.852 --> 25:48.913 Okay, here we go. 25:49.174 --> 25:52.758 You ready, all right, anchors. 25:54.780 --> 25:55.401 Special people. 25:56.322 --> 25:56.923 Relationship. 25:58.505 --> 25:59.946 So important Somatic. 26:01.310 --> 26:01.811 Everything. 26:02.260 --> 26:05.348 Interoception A skill Rolodex. 26:05.797 --> 26:09.953 I hope you have many, that's great. 26:10.401 --> 26:10.950 Healing Great. 26:11.431 --> 26:15.461 Healing Hard work and worth it. 26:18.114 --> 26:18.797 Trauma Sucks. 26:21.334 --> 26:24.997 Mentorship, lucky Attachment, everything. 26:28.526 --> 26:41.733 Wounds, love, awareness, important Re-experience, gift, safe, everything. 26:41.753 --> 26:45.041 Yeah, it is everything Amazing. 26:46.651 --> 26:47.894 You were good at that. 26:49.036 --> 26:51.001 Those are a lot of words I'm very familiar with. 26:51.021 --> 26:51.522 I know. 26:55.570 --> 26:58.986 But you know, the difficulty is like we internalize it and we want to the right word and we'll sit there and we ruminate on it. 26:59.026 --> 26:59.730 I've had that happen. 26:59.850 --> 27:02.197 And then I have people that are just like boom, boom, boom, boom. 27:02.758 --> 27:12.180 You knew where you're going with each one of those things, which, to me, says you truly align and you resonate with everything that you're doing in this book. 27:12.480 --> 27:13.421 But it goes beyond the book. 27:13.702 --> 27:17.526 With the first book it's like I didn't realize how much more healing I had to do. 27:17.830 --> 27:21.623 But I feel and I'm always healing there's no finish line. 27:22.145 --> 27:25.454 But I feel like I'm embodied in a way that I can walk. 27:26.677 --> 27:33.877 I can walk into the world with this book and be like I have lived this experience and I want you to have that too, and I feel very proud about that. 27:33.957 --> 27:36.060 I mean, that's harder than the book itself. 27:36.220 --> 27:36.521 You know? 27:36.761 --> 27:37.683 Yeah, definitely. 27:37.843 --> 27:39.185 Thank you so much, Jessica. 27:39.205 --> 27:40.132 This has been great. 27:40.694 --> 27:44.145 I want to give you a moment just to share some final thoughts. 27:44.265 --> 27:51.432 Even though you have shared some wisdom bombs here, what would you like to leave with those who are tuning into HIListically Speaking? 27:53.375 --> 28:18.397 If you decide to get curious about your own patterns and you know creating healthier relationships, just know that you're taking a very courageous step and it's okay to admit that you know we have we have tough relationships or that we're suffering in our relationships and that so many people are experiencing that that look perfect on the outside and it's just not what's going on. 28:18.490 --> 28:19.574 You're just not alone. 28:19.715 --> 28:26.160 If you're in that situation and I just I hope you get what you need and you feel supported in the way that you can. 28:27.210 --> 28:44.144 All right, my friends, it's time to feel safe, and you can do that by connecting with Jessica and also picking up a copy of her latest book Safe Coming Home to Yourself and Others an attachment-informed guide to building secure relationships. 28:45.051 --> 28:52.276 You know this book is going to be right up there on the HIListically Speaking Book Nook Library, so you can grab it there. 28:52.410 --> 28:58.661 You can also find it in the notes of this podcast, in addition to that beautiful gift that she's giving away if you purchase this book. 28:59.311 --> 29:01.178 It can't be any better than that. 29:01.679 --> 29:11.070 And once you finish once you finish this conversation, I would be so grateful if you could give it some love, leave a thoughtful response or rating. 29:11.511 --> 29:18.254 Wherever you are tuning in and watching it could be on Apple or Spotify, or even on YouTube or anywhere you're tuning in. 29:18.756 --> 29:24.795 Your comments help this conversation reach more people, and that's really what it's all about, isn't it? 29:24.935 --> 29:28.475 It's about community and you're part of the process, and I thank you for it. 29:29.278 --> 29:36.219 And don't forget, you can always join me live, every month online for the free, havening happy hours. 29:36.259 --> 29:37.231 This is my gift to you. 29:37.311 --> 29:40.479 I've been doing it since March of 2020, and I don't plan to stop. 29:40.940 --> 29:49.517 It's a safe place to learn how to put the power of emotional wellbeing and healing in your hands, with neuroscience on your side. 29:49.658 --> 30:02.405 And if you are already a fan of Havening and you've been in my Havening happy hours or we've worked together, you've seen me on stage and you're looking to level up and bring Havening into your practice, you can get certified and I can help you do that. 30:03.030 --> 30:10.603 And I added more information about you becoming a pioneer practitioner and what you can do to work with me in mentorship. 30:10.924 --> 30:11.525 I'd love to have you. 30:12.491 --> 30:18.064 So the music for this show of HIListically Speaking since day one has been created and produced by Lipbone Redding. 30:18.525 --> 30:19.387 Give him a listen. 30:20.009 --> 30:26.871 It's music for your soul and without you, my friend, without you tuning in week after week, this wouldn't all be possible. 30:27.412 --> 30:38.052 Thanks for trusting me, thanks for joining me on this journey, and remember this, this journey, and remember this. 30:38.072 --> 30:44.644 All you need is one anchor right Trust that you have the ability to be safe, and it begins with taking that first step and choosing to hug it out with yourself. 30:46.110 --> 30:52.234 I'm glad you're here, I love you, I believe in you and I'm sending hugs your way. 30:53.075 --> 30:53.435 Be well.