it really boils down to
this word, un cancelable.
my kind of evolution of understanding
about why Ethereum based train were
kind of inherently flawed for the long
term and that my understanding of that,
the Bitcoin resilience and the, the.
Security model and you know, the
adoption and stuff was going to
just continue to be stronger.
I really wanted this on the Bitcoin side
and I think it makes a lot of sense.
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All right, on to our show.
So welcome everyone to
Bit Devs Wednesday night.
tonight we're talking
about Spaces, protocol.
I'm Andrew.
We'll talk a little bit about
me a little bit in a second.
I wanted to, uh, kick this off
with a little video that I just
literally saw this morning, and I
thought it really tied into this.
So, what makes Bitcoin special,
makes things like Nostri special?
Is there permissionless?
You don't need anyone's permission,
to build what you wanna see.
And, uh, and that's just incredible.
Like to, to be able to work on a
money transmission protocol that's
entirely open, that has no one leader
that has, um, all this attention.
Has converted the likes of BlackRock,
uh, or these major institutions
that were these things that
we railed against in the past.
Um, and now they have to turn their
attention to it, and yet we still don't
need their permission to build on it.
Um, or to ancient or to better it.
Where else can you find it?
Like at that scale, not nowhere.
And in only 16 years.
So imagine the next 16 years and this,
um, how you can contribute to it.
Again, only asking yourself permission.
That was just an incredible thing, be part
of, and it reminds me so much of the, of
the earlier that where you, again, the
didn't need permission to do anything.
We seen more and more of that going away.
Bitcoin the master and, and hopefully
something in intelligence will be the,
the antidote to that brings us back to
like what we need to be internet special
in the first place when made magic.
So permission, that's, um.
That's the one, the
one great last thought.
So that was the end of the clip.
I just, I thought it kind of summed up.
He didn't mention anything
about names of course in there,
but, uh, in naming systems.
But I thought, man, it kind
of like summarized kind of the
sentiment that's behind this.
So I thought it was a
great thing to start with.
And we're talking about spaces,
protocol, what is spaces?
It is a, uh, a scalable
permissionless Bitcoin identity.
So identity I think is a little,
sells it a little bit short,
but, uh, we'll go with that.
This is right from the, the website.
We're gonna look at the
website largely tonight.
I don't have a huge
number of slides to show.
I think a lot of it's just gonna
be kind of poking around the
website and some of the resources
and talking about how this works.
Get you a sense.
Uh, I'll start off with by
saying, you know, if you got
questions, just shout out.
Let's just talk.
I mean.
It's pretty unstructured my thoughts
about how I'm gonna present tonight.
and if we, if there's, if you got
thoughts and you've got questions,
then let's just kind of delve into it
and like clear up as best as I can.
I will be first to say that I
don't know everything, especially
the zero knowledge proof stuff is
kind of still a bit mystic to me.
But we'll touch on it and
I'll answer everything I can.
Uh, I did, I have had dialogue
with the, the, the project founder.
I actually talked to him this
morning, as well as I've talked
to him a few times in the past.
And I have a, a sense of his history
and, and kind of the thoughts around
coming to it where we are today.
So, uh, I can't speak for him completely,
but I can kind of give a sense of it.
So, spaces empowers users with
sovereign Bitcoin identity anchored
securely on the Bitcoin blockchain.
Key thing.
imagine a social handle that's
truly your central resistant.
And accessible across, uh, various
protocols like noser, uh, naming wallets,
uh, peer-to-peer applications and beyond.
All right, sounds pretty salesy, but,
who is here for the Noser meetup?
So you got about a half a dozen here,
so I, I think this really, kind of
crosses over into the nostri space a bit.
We'll, we'll talk about
where that kind of is.
so who am I?
I'm Andrea, as I mentioned, Andrew Lundy.
Um, I've been developing since I was in
high school, I guess you could say that.
So as you can notice, probably
that's, that's quite a few years.
and I've been focusing, kind
of pivoting as we like to say.
pivoting, from enterprise kind of
traditional stuff, more recently to
Bitcoin and lightning sort of things.
This kind of falls into that.
primarily the, my grounding is
the sound mounting advocate.
I. And I am into these days, all things
decentralized money media naming and id,
the naster meeting that we were doing on
Mondays, was a decentralized ID meeting.
And, uh, we felt that that's, the
scope of that was a bit limiting.
We weren't really drawing the huge,
like, mega crowds that we were hoping to.
We swept it out for the Noster.
So hopefully that's going to bring in
the big, the big, uh, numbers here.
So a couple articles, I
found out about this project.
It was last year, around
September, early September.
And, I went back to my notes and I
was trying to figure out when I first
kind of seen it, there was I think
a, uh, a Bitcoin magazine article
that just mentioned this guy, that's
the founder, his name's Mike Carson,
uh, that they were doing something
with domain naming on Bitcoin.
Yeah, and I, I went back around this
timeframe I saw, I found this article and
it talks about decentralized naming could
be the next, bring the next billion users.
Now it mentions Mike here, and if you
read this article, which I recommend,
I got this linked in the notes,
and I can give anyone this deck if
they want in the, in the future.
But it talks about his history.
He ran a, you know, a domain
registry for a number of years.
He was involved with all the early kind
of OGs of the domain name system like
Verisign and ICAN and all that stuff.
So he's pretty steeped in this whole issue
and how DNS works and how it gets abused
through squatting and other, other things.
but I picked out this
quote of this article.
Bitcoin is the most secure
and decentralized proof
of work blockchain by far.
So it makes.
Complete sense that the centralized
naming should be anchored
in the Bitcoin block space.
And I know we can contend on this,
there's a lot of purists that say, you
know, Bitcoin, it's, it's for money only.
Get that crap out of here.
You know, we saw what happened with
Ordinals, we saw what happened, you know,
with inscriptions it's like, it's like
not the purest view of, of money or of
the usage for the Bitcoin blockchain.
And I think my stance is more along
the lines of like, Hey, if you're
willing to store something there and
you're willing to pay to get it stored
there, then it's an open market.
I don't wanna see a huge bloat.
This, this protocol doesn't
bloat the blockchain.
It's very small footprint, but I think
it leverages a lot of the attributes of
the blockchain and, is by and large the
best place for stuff even like this.
Uh, any questions?
No.
All righty.
Another article that came out and here's
the, uh, this is the founding of the
project, Mike Carson, in August last year.
This was, uh, coming up on, on the,
uh, tab comp, and actually one of their
core developers made it to Tab Comp last
year, and I was able to, to chat with
them for a couple hours one afternoon.
So I, I know these folks are real.
And, this is, uh, taking a little
bit, sim similar sort of spin.
We, we know this kind of tagline,
not your keys, not your coins,
not your Keys, not your name, and
why naming is the Next Killer app.
was another good article.
Got it linked here.
some of this I thought really, uh,
rang true to the discussion as well.
one, the internet once envisioned as
democratic force, uh, free expression,
global communication now faces threats
from government censorship, corporate
influence, technical vulnerabilities,
decentralized mining, built on a robust
and secure foundation of Bitcoin offers
a future where individuals and businesses
can have greater control over their
identities, ideas, and information.
By levering leveraging the immutability
transparency and sensor resistant nature
of Bitcoin, decentralized naming systems
can have a more resilient and democratic
alternative for managing their identities.
with Bitcoin as the backbone, we can
ensure that decentralized naming is
not only inevitable, but also truly
successful in creating an open,
global, open and free internet.
One where everyone can have an equal voice
in shaping the global conversation without
fear of central or censorship and control.
And, and then that is Cipher Punk.
So Cipher Punk is a bit of a, you know,
I guess a bit of a, a stretch there.
But, the folks that kind of are
behind this really are, are truly
wanting to do this in the right way.
And, there is a history of
projects that have led up to this.
I know, uh, anyone's familiar
with, uh, ethernet naming service.
Ethereum.
Ethereum, yeah.
Ethereum Naming service.
Sorry.
Thanks.
Uh, rich, there was, uh,
something called name coin.
There was something called a
handshake or hand break that was like
a whole other chain that had this.
At its core, there's been some,
several attempts at doing something
like this in the past, and nothing
has really kind of caught hold yet.
I think, and we're gonna go through
some of the methodology of it here.
I think this project really
has some, some gravity to it.
I think, if.
Done.
Right.
If it's continued in the way that it's,
that it's kind of going, it could,
uh, could catch on or, you know, it
could not, again, it's not, critical.
Go ahead.
Um, they catch off.
Yeah.
So the question is, uh, do
I have a sense for why these
other attempts didn't catch on?
I was speaking with
Mike, uh, earlier today.
I was asking him the same question and
he said, really, each project, each
attempt kind of failed in, in some way.
Sometimes it was the fact that, you know,
there was insider issuance where the
people that were creating it like grabbed
a bunch of like good names, like, and
like kind of tried to box people out.
There was issue of, I think, like
Charging too much, for the names.
And it became kind of like nobody,
it lost every lost interest.
I can't really go, if you, that first
article that was referenced gets
into quite a bit of the background
of why these pro some of these
projects kind of didn't take off.
And may you know this one we'll see.
We're not sure.
It's, you know, time will tell how this
kind of plays out, but, uh, I, I think
it's got some really good, uh, legs to it.
Uh, question
set of problems, practice.
What's the weakness at the end,
I feel like Good, good question.
So the question, just to repeat it is,
you know, what problems is solving?
What is, what is the weakness?
So, and, and I kind of grapple with
this myself, and I was talking with
Mike, the, the founder earlier today
and say, you know, are we solving
a problem that doesn't exist?
It's like, in a way, DNS.
That's what this is meant to
solve is like replace DNS as
a name to other information.
You can say name to IP in the kind
of purest DNS sense, but it's like
name to where's your email exchange,
or there's a name to some text, or
there's a name to an identity or
a wallet address, whatever it is.
Something human readable to
something that's more difficult
to, you know, keep track of.
And in a way the answer is, for most
people, especially people in the United
States, this may never be a problem I.
People are like, well, DNS works.
And it does.
It's heavily, it's, it's heavily
distributed, but it's not decentralized.
People think of DNS and they,
they hear about it and they're
like, oh, it's decentralized.
No, it's not.
There's every, the.com, dot org, dot
net, dot mill, all the top level domains
are hosted by a set of root servers that
if there's an entity that takes control
of those root servers, or if there's a
DDS attack, DOS attack on those servers,
or if something about the people that
control those servers changes, then
they could affect whether or not your
website can be reached by anyone else.
So in a lot of ways it's like, well,
what does Noster, what does it fix?
That's, you know, we've got X, we've
got truth, we got, you know, rumble,
we've got these other blue sky things.
I mean, there's all this social media.
Why do we need Noster?
Well.
Because those, everything
else is centralized.
You can turn off that.
And we talked about this
in the Nostra meeting.
It's like there was a bunch of YouTubers
that got kicked off of YouTube for their,
you know, right wing political opinion.
And the, they're like,
well, wait a second.
Freedom of speech.
And like, no.
It's like the law says, it's like
if we own the platform, you know,
we could kick you off and Oh,
go, go build your own platform.
You know you want, there's
nobody stopping you.
Well, they did.
There was a par, a platform called
Parler that emerged out of the
aftermath of that big exodus.
And a lot of those conservative voices
went and rebuilt their following.
And if you imagine like you're
a YouTube influencer, you want.
That's a lot of work to like, you know,
get a a, a following and get a reputation
built just to have it all yanked.
So a lot of people went to Parlor, but
then somebody didn't like that on Parlor.
And what did they do to,
did they shut down Parlor?
No, they went and yanked
Parlor's account through Amazon.
So they put political influence
on Amazon to shut them down.
And a lot of the people then migrated
to things like, rumble and Bit
Shoot and Odyssey and these others.
but I'm like, hello?
It's like it's, these are still different
yet still centralized systems, right?
So it's like, yes, maybe now the
policy is to encourage free speech.
We can say, we can see what happened with
Twitter and X and the Augh X. And he is
like, we're gonna make it for speech.
There are still people that
get centered censored on X.
So it's like.
You know, how many times do
we have to learn the lesson?
That if you're relying on anything that's
centralized, then that's a vulnerability.
It may not be attacked,
but it may be attacked.
There are, um, I saw an
article, in Malaysia.
There was the government didn't
like a, some websites and they
forced the, uh, because it was
a Malaysian top level domain.
And then there's root servers in Malaysia
that control that, that distribution
or the delegation of those things that
they went in and, uh, turned it off.
So they turned off whole
websites in Malaysia at the DNS
level from a government order.
There was also a case.
The, uh, cat top level main,
C-A-C-A-T, which is Catalonia,
the the region in Spain.
Right.
there was a huge, uh, set of, people
putting up websites that were like railing
against the government, you know, mandate.
And they literally marched in to the
ISPs that were hosting those top level
servers, demanded them to be shut up
and jailed the people and turned off
the whole.cat system for a while.
So while those incidents didn't affect
us here in the us it has happened.
And the point is it could continue
to happen, will it, will it not?
Maybe this regime is pretty friendly.
Maybe the next regime isn't so friendly.
Who knows?
It's more important to like,
get control of these things.
All certificates
or three days.
Yeah.
Or secure show base.
Really the X 5 1 9, August.
Right.
So just to repeat for the recording,
uh, Scott's saying it's like all, all
internet activity that's SSH or or
h tt PS is secured through, through
certificates that are issued, through
authorities that are controlled, that can
take and, and yank those away from you.
So, you know, just because your, you know,
your communication between your client
and your server is encrypted, that doesn't
mean that that can be the same way.
And yes, you can create your own
certificate authority, but in terms
of being able for people to widely
use it, it's very restricted.
So you're back to the
same situation where.
If there's any way to limit the
amount of central authority that your
livelihood depends on, then, I think
taking efforts to figure out what ways
to do that is, is definitely desirable.
Lander, China, they have a limit
on what their people can actually
see and access, but they feel each
noster and you say their point of
view across the world, so Right.
The, the question was, China has a lot of,
constraints around how their population
can use the internet, and does Noster
and or things like this help them?
Uh, potentially it does, but
also understand too that,
uh, China's got a tight.
a tight control of the IP layer of
the routing of their, you know, what
their population is typically using.
When you look at, you know, how
you're all connected, like at t
Comcast, you know, blah, blah, blah.
You're all going through, really a
handful of internet providers, and that's
another area of concern of control.
I mean, what happens if, you
know, your ISP decides they don't
like you, you know, and they turn
you off for political reasons.
Like, what's your alternative?
It's just like the same thing as when
if you got a bank account and the bank
doesn't like what kind of business
you're in, you know, if I'm a, you
know, small arms dealer or whatever,
then they can yank it and have, and as.
So in the same way, even though
it's maybe not prevalent,
uh, these controls do exist.
So, taking efforts, so Gina.
I believe when, uh, Nastro first
became popular, a bunch of Chinese
foods actually digital, they don't
use the same surgeries, you know?
Right.
So, so, uh, Dana's point here was that,
uh, when, uh, Nastro first emerged, China
was, uh, users in China were using it
pretty extensively, but they typically
used a set of relays that they themselves
were using in, in Chinese language.
So part of Noster is, you know,
your experience is dictated
by the, the particular set of
relays that you connect to.
And if they're all doing Chinese
stuff, then obviously that's
gonna appeal to that audience.
So, it is distributed
more so than most systems.
The, uh, the noster side of things
is more about on the premise.
It's like if any particular relay
doesn't like what you're saying or
doing and tries to squelch your voice.
Fine, they can stop.
You've got others that will continue
sending your messages around.
So, so, but, but it really boils
down to this word, un cancelable.
You know, when I first started
thinking about this problem and, and
also thinking about how it was people
were approaching it, I, I got invo
or very interested in the unstoppable
domains on the Ethereum blockchain.
Uh, if you look at that, you can go
by a name of a certain number of quasi
domains that live in the Ethereum
blockchain world, and then you can use
that in combination with IPFS, which is
stands for Interplanetary File System,
which is kind of a very distributed
kind of, way to store content and.
If you do that, put the right browser
plugin in the, your browser, then you
can actually set it up to where you
can get to a, a webpage or website
and it doesn't touch DNS and all.
So it's, it's solving the same problem.
But on the Ethereum ecosystem, which I
really liked, except for, I didn't like
it, it was on the Ethereum ecosystem,
you know, uh, there was another
Ethereum derivative chain that I was,
uh, very interested in, called Theta.
And at one point I was like, man,
somebody needs to like take all this
unstoppable domain stuff and then
implement it on the Ethereum chain or
the, the theta chain, so we could take,
take advantage of all this stuff too.
But by that point, my kind of evolution
of understanding about why Ethereum based
train were kind of inherently flawed for
the long term and that my understanding of
that, the Bitcoin resilience and the, the.
Security model and you know, the
adoption and stuff was going to
just continue to be stronger.
I really wanted this on the Bitcoin side
and I think it makes a lot of sense.
Question is ip fs.
Yeah.
IP FS Is that,
is it still around?
I know they had like a file add
things to try to make sense,
um, people to store data.
I didn't know how
successful that had been.
Yeah.
the question is, is IPFS interplanetary
file system still around?
It is, it's, um, I guess how much
adoption and usage is still kind
of up to, up in the air, whether it
really will continue it, it seems
like it's got some persistence.
It's got some really interesting things
and when, like when you pay to store a
file, it's a one-time fee and the g the
promises that that file is stored forever.
And you're like, well,
how's that possible?
How's it possible that I can pay
one single fee at one point in time
and have a file stored forever?
And the way they talk about it, if
you dig into their docs and stuff, is
their banking on the cost of storage
and network costs to, as Moore's
law continues up with, uh, you know,
things getting cheaper and cheaper.
Like, the fact that I can get a
two terabyte SSD for like, what
200 bucks is pretty amazing.
Whereas my first hard drive was
like, you know, I don't know,
it was like 20 meg or something.
It was pretty small.
you know, it's like the fact that they
can charge something and then based on the
fact that they presume the cost of storage
and is going to continue going down
into the future that they can, that's,
that's the guarantee that they've made.
So it's pretty compelling.
It's a thing you can buy for, you can
pay for something now that you, your
grandchildren, you know, can see or use.
I mean, so much of the NFT world, I mean,
you're talking about an NFT, it's like a
picture of a bored ape or whatever, right?
It's like the NFT is like on the
chain, what the information about it.
But that picture of, that ape
lives on a, on a server somewhere.
It lives on a web server somewhere.
So the day that that person like, you
know, gets hit by a truck or it goes outta
business, that service, then the picture
of that web ape goes away and it's like,
well, I, I spent money on this thing and
I can't even get to the picture anymore.
That sucks.
You know?
And I know in, uh, the, the whole, craze
around, uh, ruins and, and, and, uh,
inscriptions and, and all that stuff, Is
was putting huge amounts of data, which
is effectively a lot of the resources
for those NFTs on the blockchain itself.
So, uh, any other questions?
No.
Alrighty.
So, um, for the rest of the, um,
for the presentation, for the most
part, I'm gonna just look at their
website resources and talk about it.
Uh, so let's just, uh, start clicking.
So, uh, before I go to this one, let me
go to, and let me make it a bit bigger.
Can we see it?
Yep.
All right.
So this is the main page.
Um, again, it's, it's a project,
it's protocol, it's not a
particular product itself.
Um, you know, like Noster is a protocol
I. And there's lots of clients, there's
lots of relays, there's things written in
any language, and there's a lot of people
kind of putting their own spin on things.
This is set up in a similar way.
the, uh, if we go and look at the,
uh, the docs, let's do that first.
I'm gonna kinda walk through, if
you, the, the names themselves
kind of look like this.
So you just decided, hey, they're
make, kinda making this up.
This is what a sovereign,
space's name should look like.
It's something to the left of the art
symbol and something to the right.
so right now, and this is still, this
was launched on main net, I believe
it was in November of last year.
So it hasn't been really live that long.
I was, I was trying to get on a testnet
for prior to that, uh, to do some
testing, see how it worked, but it's
really hasn't been around that long.
but uh, this was kind of the way
they decided we're gonna use the at
symbol to kind of denote a spaces
top level name and then to the right
is the name, no dot just the name.
That's it.
to the left is what they call, and we're,
we're looking here in this example,
Alice is what they call a subspace.
I'm gonna talk about that in a second.
But the, at Bitcoin in this example,
you make, you, there's an auction
process for declaring who owns
and controls what top level names.
And we'll go through that in a second.
But this is the, how it's laid out.
And then once this exists,
then it can map to an identity.
It could be a, uh, nostri
identity or other identity.
So in this case, it maps
to this particular end pub.
and, uh, but it can also
through another system.
Uh, simulate DNS lookups.
So DNS zone information.
So think of things like a records,
uh, c name records, uh, text records,
those sorts of things can be also
associated with a particular top
level name on its own, or what,
this is what like a subspace names
like oxygen constant as legitimate
to the So it it is, yeah.
It's, it's part of it.
And I think they've, they've put a lot
of thought into this, so I'm gonna, and
I'm gonna talk about that in a second.
So, um, just a few things here and
let me see if I can make this bigger.
So there we go.
So, what makes, space special?
They're anchored in bit chain.
We talked about that.
It's a, and primary spaces are community,
what they call community identifiers.
And, uh, because of the issuance
IE in the, uh, the rate at which
these names can be created.
And we'll talk about that.
There's an, there's an absolute
limit of 3,600 per year it can be
created, and they're acquired through
permissionless auctions that actually
occur on the Bitcoin blockchain.
And the primary space, they call it
a community, but basically then the
number of things to the left of the
at symbol, can, can be pretty much
unlimited, known as, uh, subspaces.
And this is, this is, um, something that
it took me a little bit to understand
because we normally, we, we really,
our, our thoughts kind of go back to
DNS and how it works in that, in DNS,
everything to the left of the dot,
like you make a, you get a.com name,
so you got that first that, that.
Second level DNS name.
And if you say there's something to
the left with ano, you can, that you
could say, well that's a subdomain and
I can delegate that to someone else.
And you can say to that one, you
say, well put another dot there
and there's another subdomain.
So in a DNS system, there's this
hierarchy of delegation that's inherent
in how DNS works in this system,
even though it looks like there's
kind of a main level at Bitcoin.
And then you know, Bob Alice on the, to
the left, that maybe there's two levels
actually, once a name has been created a
subspace in the, in their terminology it
is participates in a very flat name space.
All this stuff lives at the same level.
Uh, Steve question, quick comment.
DS is very oracle.
'cause you had some domains on
some domains on other domains.
Yeah.
In my opinion, that's.
In my opinion, DNS is also just as flat
app because when you actually look at
how it is entered into like a, um, a zone
file, like all of, like, if you have,
um, you know, uh, andrew dot users dot
atl be lab.com, Andrew dot users is just
one subdomain with period in middle.
Like, it, it doesn't even like at the,
um, there, there's no like sense of
like, oh, there's like some other or
some file that it's being delegated to.
It's just a stream with
the period of in middle.
So like the whole like concept of
like subdomains of subdomains is
just like the way we think about
it, but like our people brains.
But it's really just a string of period.
So, uh, hopefully that was caught.
But just to recap it quickly, the
sub, uh, Steven's saying subdomains
are just really a.in the name.
It can be, or it can
represent further delegation.
It depends on how you set up your zones.
And delegation.
You can say this, that's where the start
of authority record dictates, okay,
now I'm taking over this part of the
name and everything to the left of it.
So Sure.
Do that with like web to like, said
that that's like a different protocol
there, but I think you side conversation.
No, no, it's, it's, it's
a, it's a good point.
And, and, um, you know, it's, it's,
it is because there's a lot of
overlap and there's a, because the
intention and the, and the kind of
function of it is very much attempting
to replace DNS then the comparison
always comes in, how does this work?
How is it compared to DNS?
And uh, so those are always, uh,
the questions that are popping up.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
Say I put an auction and
I get a particular space.
Do I control who gets the
makeup sub space in my space?
You do?
Okay.
Yeah.
That seems like a problem because
that seems like we get it back
to the same problem of DNS where
it's not permissionless anymore.
We have to, I have to ask the
permission of the person who has
the space to get a self space and
then they have property permit then.
Yeah.
So, um, think that's where the, this
is, this is part of this and we're gonna
touch on that if you, if you hold onto
that question a little bit, but to kind
of partially answer it and, and, 'cause I
wanted to kind of and impress this point
of it, is that once a subspace, which
is like the Alice at Bitcoin, once the
Alice part has been created, then it lives
in initially kind of, and, and I'm not
completely exactly sure how all of this
works because it's yet to be rolled out
in terms of functionality, but It exists
in like a Merkel tree, representation
of that part of the space and can exist
in that way without going back on chain.
for that however you like, you say,
oh, if I own the top level and I
give, then, then I can control it.
But once it's been created, so
in that case, in the case of
this one Alice at Bitcoin, right?
Once that's created, then there's
a process where you can take that
identifier and take it on chain for fee.
I mean just 'cause it's a transaction
and once it's taken on chain, then that
severs any relationship with the person
that owned the app, Bitcoin and their
ability to control that any further now it
stands completely on its own and is just
as valid as anything else in the system.
So it's a little bit of a, a
little mind bend of how that works.
And we haven't really seen the fullest
implementation of all that yet.
But that's the, um, the theory behind it.
So if you say, oh, I like, I want an at
Bitcoin address, I'm gonna pay whoever at
the guy that's running at Bitcoin is, and
I want it to be, you know, me at Bitcoin.
as soon as that's created and it's
delegated to you, then you can say,
well, I don't wanna worry about the, this
person like managing this for me anymore.
I'm gonna take it on chain.
And from that point it's like
you completely control it.
The person that runs at Bitcoin could
get hit by a truck and their estate
can totally not know what to do with
it and whatever, and it's gone, but
you'll still have a valid identifier.
Okay.
Uh, lemme just kinda look
through this a little more.
Let's, uh, anything else to say.
Question.
Go ahead.
Why do you need the
first level management?
And I might not be, but, but
why do you even need that
administrator for that to start with?
Like what, what goal are they serving?
Like obviously you can't have duplicates,
you can't have identical duplicates,
but can't you just build that down?
What is that initial, um,
layer of the auction doing?
Like what, what role are
they really serving students?
So the, the question is, why does
someone need to own that top level
name in order to facilitate the, the
functioning of this naming system?
I think the best answer is
that that becomes property.
That has value.
And by virtue of your ownership
and control of it, you exert a
certain amount of, uh, I mean, Val,
there's value in the property name.
Like, would you say that,
you know, google.com as a
name is, is valuable, right?
So like, like why are you, why does
anyone move to He broke do com side of it?
Maybe I'm misunderstand.
I agree that once you have google.com,
that, that, that should be something
that you can kind, why are you wired?
Anyone leaving on the.com side of it?
Well, this was designed to be in like an,
like a non, like a permissionless system.
There is no owner, there is no
entity that controls anything.
There's just a process
that you follow and then.
If you come outta the end of it with
being the winner of the.at Bitcoin,
then that becomes your responsibility
to give a scenario.
So like, as far as this question of
like, why do I need this top level?
Let's say if we had it like in pubs
where you just had, like, in this
protocol, I've stated that this info
gets to point to some IP address.
Well, at that point you didn't
need to have this top layer
and you get the same effect.
You could still even
make that prohibition.
All right.
Might know a succinct answer.
All right.
Yeah.
Uh, just there, it just to answer
kind of Quas answer your question
before Alex jumps in, there is another
project that does something almost
exactly what you're describing.
go ahead Alex.
Yeah.
Okay.
So anytime that you're dealing
with a protocol that involves
ownership, you have to solve a
problem with what is two evolve.
Say that they own the same thing.
You have to figure out which
person's floor happens.
So, uh, how do you do that?
Well, you can build something like
Bitcoin and you can have like a massive
ledger to figure out who's correct.
Like that's the source security.
But if you're not using a massive
shared database, you have to
figure out some other way to
figure out who wants to buy that.
So if two people claim, uh, Bitcoin's off
whatever, uh, like Bitcoin claim by big.
So, so distinguish Bitcoin, you look
at the, the Bitcoin model and to see
which transaction works first basic.
Does that make sense?
Like apply box s we didn't, we didn't
have permission was blockchains in the
late eighties when DMS was invented.
And so because we didn't have these
permissionless blockchains, like we had
to say, okay, well we're gonna trust
a third party and that third party is
gonna be the internet corporation for
sign names to numbers and they're gonna
delegate authority to donate registrars.
And the domain registrars are.
Natasha, this domain, domain name and
Steven knows this domain, domain name.
So that's kind of at a technical level
why you either, you know, you either need
some kind of trustless public data source
or you need to trust the third party.
I, that's, to me, that's still
my answer because I feel like you
can still have, if the trust list,
what it being this hierarchical
level of having the top layer.
Because even what you're saying, like
if we have the option and store the data
on the, the blockchain to say, Hey, this
random screen of numbers, that's gonna be
our identity points to this IP address.
And you can always update
that because you've basically
bought the right to do so.
It seems like you still don't need this
hierarchy is the hierarchy is a feature
that you can do stage changes without
hiring a big Bitcoin transaction.
So like we can create your
domains off of one way cheaper.
Like Yeah, you're saying it does work,
it's, it's a scaling f. It expensive
to use this like fair resource.
Can you move forward?
And I wonder if you gimme the options.
I don't mean like on the page,
I'm on the page, but I'm wondering
if as you get the auctions Yeah.
Section, some of Antoine's
questions might make sense.
Okay.
Yeah, no, no.
presuming this question, your questions
have been answered already, right?
So, um, just before move on, 'cause
I'm not sure, it'd be nice to kind
of keep as much of this discussion
like in the recording as possible.
Alex is making a, a, a point, uh, is
that in a system like this, you need a
way to say, to def, define definitively.
Say, well, who owns what If there's
two people that contend for owning the
same name, say in the, in this case,
at Bitcoin, how do you know who has the
real name or who's the legitimate owner?
And uh, Steven was kind
of following on with that.
It's like back when the
internet was created.
We didn't have blockchain as a
mechanism for, for storing things
that could be completely trustless.
We had to rely on other things.
We chose, in this case, to rely on an
entity called ican, which would then
delegate responsibility to registrars,
which were businesses like Verisign,
GoDaddy, name any of them, right?
Two cows, if I'm naming myself, or aging.
Anyway, uh, and then eventually
countries got their own delegation
so that you could get, you know,
the ones that were country and then
that is even further proliferated.
But you gotta have one or the other.
You gotta have either an authority that
says who owns what, that you can go to
and ask the question, or you have to
have a system of, of record that you can
query and say, okay, who is the indeed
the proper owner of this property?
The name.
lemme just kinda look quick here.
Uh, space is protocol is designed
with the ZK light clients in mind,
making the identities verifiable
and resource constrained device.
So this gets to kind of what Alex was
to touching on, is like, in order to
make it scalable without going on chain
or having to query the chain all the
time there, everything to the left
of the at sign is, can be managed by
a zero K proofing sort of systems.
like yeah, once allocated, permissionless
secures, bridges, no bridges, no slashing,
no any kind of optimistic security, um,
and Trump, you know, no
need to trust again, this is
about the un cancel ability.
Go ahead.
Okay.
Does that mean?
No, all of our app bitcoins can get
created from that point forward, right?
Is that what we're saying?
Yep.
Yeah.
Unless they hand it off.
Yeah.
They would have to delegate it if
they had, I mean, you, you would
probably, if you own app Bitcoin and
somebody does, 'cause this auctions
have already stored and it's been
registered, uh, and you don't, you don't
have good estate planning, succession
planning, then, uh, yeah, same.
It's, it mirrors a lot of the
same dilemmas that, uh, you know,
a lot of, uh, owning and, and
controlling a lot of Bitcoin does.
It's like, especially when you want
to get into estate planning and stuff.
Um, let's, so, so, uh, the, the fabric
DHT is, I'm, I'm gonna skip that.
I don't know why it's second in line.
effectively it's a, just
quickly I'll touch on it.
It's a. Distributed hash tables, uh, set
of nodes, not dislike how bit Torrance
work that allow the storage of records,
so metadata about a name to exist and be
easily looked up and have a distributed
look up, without going on chain and
without relying on any particular node.
So, if you look at how, BitTorrent
works, it dices everything up.
It spreads it around all these different
servers got this, this algorithm for how
you figure out where stuff is and how
to collect it back when you need to like
get that download of that movie you're
not supposed to be getting, et cetera.
it uses a similar separate but
similar methodology, but, uh, and
I could talk more about it later,
but the more interesting thing is
like, how do we get here, right?
So the auctions section, so
the auctions work like this.
well before you can participate
and kind of take actions, you
need to, uh, install the software.
So the software, involves two things.
A command line interface tool,
and a process that needs access.
And, uh, RPC interface
access to a Bitcoin node.
So we don't need anything
lightning, just Bitcoin node, right?
But you need to have one
available that you can, that you
can have, uh, be able to query.
And, and why is that?
Well, it's because what,
there's a demon process.
That when you, uh, run it, it creates
its own RPC sort of interface so
that you can ask questions to it.
And then it crawls the Bitcoin blockchain
from a certain height where it was
first, where this protocol is first
launched, and then it crawls through it
and it builds up a view of all this, the
bidding and uh, uh, registering activity
that's occurred since inception on the
Bitcoin main blockchain till today.
And because it does that, then
it knows, has a complete picture
of all the name activity and
bidding activity that's occurred.
So if you run that, then once it's done
synchronizing, then you use the command
line tool to create a wallet, which is,
effectively a taproot based wallet, uh,
because we're talking inscriptions here.
and you could then fund that
wallet with some bitcoin.
And once that's available, then
you can then, interact with the
command line to issue commands.
If you want a name that has, that, no
one has decided to even start bidding
on, you can say Open, there's a command
that says, open this name, and you give
it an initial Bitcoin bid, in, in SATs.
And it's recommended use
about a thousand SATs.
So what's a a thousand SATs?
A buck.
So if you're interested to
start, you, you say start with
a buck, and then what happens?
So you get into this, this, this cycle
here where you, introduce a name and
it goes into this pre auction pool.
So even though it's in the system,
you can't actively bid on it yet
every day, 10 of the highest.
Uh, valued bidded names that's
in this pool get released
into the active auction phase.
Okay?
So you can't just like start the
system up and then like, use some big
long list of highly desirable names.
Coca-Cola, you know, BMW, uh, you
know, MicroStrategy, you know, US
government, whatever, you know,
think of all the names that you, that
you think, oh, you know, all these
things are gonna be highly desired
and I'll get rich by reselling them.
And there is a, there is an
aftermarket, so you couldn't do that.
It's like, it's designed to kind of
throttle the releasing of kind of intended
names into an active auction process.
So the top 10 every day get
released into the, the next phase.
So when it's in this, uh,
the second auction phase.
Then there's a 10 day period where
active auctioning can happen,
or active bidding can happen.
So we can, we can go and I'll look
at, we'll look at the explorer
here in a second, but let me just
explain it first so we can kind of
understand what we're looking at.
So during that 10 days, everybody
can see that a particular names
of is actively being auctioned.
So if you're the highest
bidder, good for you.
You know, hopefully nobody like outbids
you, but if somebody else sees the
name that you're kind of interested
in and they create a higher bid, their
transaction refunds your bid to you,
and that becomes the highest bid.
So every time you bid, the amount
that you're bidding is actually.
Not spent by, well, it's spent initially,
but if you get outbid, you don't lose it.
It gets returned to you, short
of course, the transaction fees
for the Bitcoin blockchain.
this can go on and on for day, for
during the whole 10 day period.
You know, somebody likes
that name, they outbid you.
You're like, well, hell,
I, I want that name.
So you bid a little higher,
they about you, you bid.
It could be other people who knows.
this continues for 10 days and at
the end of 10 day, the 10th day.
you, it has to be, the highest bid
has to be unchallenged for a solid day
before it goes into the next phase.
So on the 10th day.
So there's been a lot of opportunity
for people to see what's going
on to express their interest
by, by bidding on it, right?
And, uh, if you are the highest bidder
after 10 days worth of bidding and no
one else is willing to bid higher than
you, then that, uh, after that 10th
day it goes into the claim, uh, mode.
At which point, so, so you might ask like,
well, what happens on the 10th day if
somebody outbids me from the 10th day on?
Anytime you're outbid, not only
do you become, does the, that bid
become the highest bid, it also
extends the deadline for another day.
So I. It's not like on eBay where
you used to go and sit there and
wait for the auction to expire.
Like, I'm gonna like jump in and
snipe this thing at the last second.
And then you sit in there like waiting
and like, like 1230 at night trying
to like get that eBay thing and you're
like, oh, I gotta get that last bid.
I'm gonna get it.
And then somebody like, overbid you.
It's like, oh, auction closed.
It's like, you can't do that.
Every, every higher bid in the last day
always extends the bidding timeframe.
Deadline another day.
So you can keep doing this, you
can keep going back and forth.
You and somebody else that really
wants this name, bidding it up.
But it, every time somebody bids it
up, it gives the other person, or, or I
should say any other interested party, an
opportunity to come in and, bid higher.
So by, yeah, it's Could be indefinite.
Go ahead.
Question.
It's just, uh, it's like basically fit
all of the s They don't once ever get
auction, just do this yourself and never
get, you plug your Bitcoin to do it, but
these transactions are getting some more.
They, yeah.
Okay.
So you're burning Bitcoin never bid.
Yes.
But bid, yes.
Specify Bitcoin.
Well, okay.
Okay.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I'm sorry.
I, I misspoke.
You said, are you burning Bitcoin
in every bid and that's, no.
You're spending Bitcoin in every
bid and you're spending the
transaction fee to place the bid.
So the bid is held in the UTXO
set that the protocol knows about.
Okay.
And I'll get to the other
registration point, and that's
answers your question, I think.
Where is the money going?
it's in your wa it's basically.
In the wallet that you're
using to place the bidding?
I think it means when
you went, when you win,
goes on, when I placed the bid, like
I I up the SP, um, and then it, I
like an higher amount of Bitcoin.
Right.
And part of that, part of the, the
transaction also at the same time,
you're, you're bidding the higher bid.
It's also another output.
Is refunding the person you overbid
at the same, in the same transaction?
Yes.
Right.
One of the outputs.
So when you make, so, so say
something's at, 6,000 SATs.
Then you say, so I bid 6,000 SATs.
You bid 7,000 SATs.
Okay, so 7,000 SATs comes
outta your wallet, right?
But the transaction is composed such
that when that transaction goes on
chain, it pays me the 6,000 back.
And, uh, and then now you're
deemed the highest bidder.
That's not a, well, it, it
can, it, it functions like, it
kind of functions like a mixer.
So if you wanna use it as a, as
a mixer, functionality, you, you
could All right, say 6,000 sets won.
Yeah.
So your money goes in
that.
All right, so you did miss that,
'cause I hadn't gotten to that yet.
All right.
So, um, let's just say for,
for the sake of argument that.
Alex has he bid 7,000?
I'm like, man, that's too much for me.
I don't want to bid anymore.
And it sits there for a day.
No one else outbids, Alex.
So the next, from that time, he put
that highest bid in to one exactly.
One day later, if no one else has
outbid and, and further extended the
deadline, then it moves into this
next state, which is the claim state.
Now, at that point, it's up to Alex
to then do another command to actually
finalize Reg, put it in a, the name
in a registered state, and then
effectively burn the highest bid to,
I think, announced of the transaction.
It doesn't go to some central,
from what I understand.
This is what I've been told.
I haven't looked into the code
to like verify it myself, but
the code is open source, so you
could, but it gets effectively.
Sent to the output that
makes it no longer spendable.
Is it a nons output?
What?
There's a, there's a, I can't
remember what it's called.
Was it, uh, yeah, it, it
sends it to up returns.
So it doesn't, it can't be, it doesn't
accumulate in some mystical like person's.
So minors get it.
No.
Well, minors always get the fees.
Yeah, but, but nobody gets
the, the, the winning bids.
No.
So effectively winning bids in
this naming system makes everybody
else's Bitcoin more valuable.
So they get burned because
they are being burned.
But it's
the opportunities, the difference
between, difference between the previous
bid and the winning bid, because most
of the bid went to the previous bidder.
Well, most of the bid, like when you're
outbidding someone, most of the bid
gets returned to the previous bidder.
Right.
But when you register it,
it's a different transaction.
And this case then.
The full amount of the highest
bid goes to the opera return,
so it can't be spent anymore.
And then the data of that, you are
the owner of this name is inscribed on
that, on that, inscription question.
Okay, so we learned like this record
of ownership, like yes, it's, you
know, the blockchain record, but if
no one had, like, if, if we don't
have enough r title knows that
keeps that data, how will we know?
And then how are we incentivizing
people to keep that data around
if we're effectively burning money
every time we want to bid it?
It's on the Bitcoin blockchain.
It's there, it's, it's never going away.
Domain meaning use that.
I, I think what's concerned is
it's an op, returns are prune.
Um, and so like if, uh, in a
hypothetical scenario where election
those, like every, every known on
the planet became pruned, I guess
that's, that, that would be a problem.
But well at least pruned from the point
of when this was first launched, the
block height that it, which was launched.
So, um, yeah.
But wouldn't there be a lot of other
problems too, if that happened?
Like there'd be major problems like that
you're basically wiped out the record
of the blockchain into old history.
The thing, I'll give you
just one moment to this.
Yeah.
So long as we have one,
everybody say fine.
Okay.
That's a good question Because I
mean, this, this is, you know, not,
it's, it's kind of hard to understand.
Um.
Opposing sta and supposing you were
a business that had an identity
on sta that would incentivize your
business to run a Google note.
Mm-hmm.
To make sure you have this nurse.
Okay.
If you own a space, you're
incentivized to run a pool note.
Okay.
That makes sense actually.
So, um, so once Alex is like, is is 7,000
SATs are, are burned forever, but he's
got the space, he won the auction, he's
registered, it is now part of system.
He can, like, people can send him Bitcoin
to the at, at Alex name or whatever.
is that it, Gina?
Go ahead.
Possession.
It's, it's, this is all written on the
Bitcoin in the outputs of the transaction.
So it's, it's.
There.
Well, and he, and it's the, the key that
that signs, that transaction is his key.
So he, from his wallet, so he's, I
mean, if he gives his private key to
someone else, then yeah, he's given away
that, that property to someone else.
Now there is a transfer, uh, an
actual, like overt transfer mechanism
that's possible where you don't give
up your key in order to transfer the
ownership of a name to another entity.
But that's kind of a
secondary like, uh, action.
the thing that, the next thing to think
about is that, okay, so, so let's just say
Alex uh, got Coca-Cola and then he, he,
he was the rightful winner and Coca-Cola
really wanted it, and he wasn't willing
to sell and he didn't do anything with it.
And then he got hit by a truck.
It's like, does that name,
is it like tied up forever?
And the answer is not exactly.
If nothing happens in re in relation
to that name for a year after it's been
registered, then it can re-enter the
available for pre auction phase again.
So this arrow can exist.
So what this does is it prevents
people from like buying up a bunch
of stuff, sitting on it, squatting
on it, and not doing anything with
it for long period of time and,
and it's just like never available
for anyone from that point forward.
Cheap.
What, say it again.
S cheap s achievement.
It's like you, if you have a bank right,
you don't lose back 10 years, the state
will execute as cheap ass cheap and Right.
Take ownership of the funds and that.
Right, but what counts is doing something.
I mean, isn't it very
simple to do something?
Yes, it is.
Okay.
So that's the other part
that I hadn't gotten to yet.
So the question was what is,
what constitutes doing something?
So, uh, any, any transaction involving
this hence forth automatically puts
a new year, expiration date on it.
So all you have to do is tickle it
once a year and you'll forever have it.
So what is tickle it?
I don't know.
It's, you know, doing something with it.
But anyway, uh, it's, it like, I think
at most that means like you would
have to pay some minor transaction
fee just to kind of keep it alive.
Now you might say, well, that fees can
go up and the price of Bitcoin can go up.
And maybe that means it's, it would
get more and more expensive over
time to just hold on to these names.
Yeah, that's true.
I mean, it's a, it's a trade off decision.
So, so anyway, that's
kind of the lifecycle.
Of names at top level names question.
That worries me because that, that
feels like the scenario where you buy
your home and then property taxes go
up so high that now you can't afford
the property taxes and then you
basically have to give up your own.
But, so what's, what's a transaction
fee for like a simple transaction?
Like when you're talking what, right
now it's uh, what, three V bytes per se?
For v Vsat Per byte?
Yeah, like three to five right
now I've seen it size, what?
A couple hundred.
But I think one transaction,
you know, maybe, maybe it's
10 bucks worth of, of thing.
I mean, I spend, I. Easily 20 bucks
a year for every domain that I've
never even used to keep it registered.
So
open PP certificates on the one block.
And then if I wanna make change you
remote keys or updated keys, uh, I
think we do a link list on blockchain.
The link list would be a future
patch address or a future address of
which I would've the private keys.
And if there's an action on that address,
then I know I'm updating the keys.
Yeah, I I'm not, uh, I'm
not completely clear.
You don't have to pay all the
periodic fees other than fee when,
right.
I can see how that can work.
This has an implicit like year long timer.
On, on each action.
Steven?
Uh, I just want say we
got about 15 minutes left.
Oh, serious.
QA.
That's up to you.
Well, so if there's a destination
you'd like to get to, it might be good.
Just the cloud.
It's all Let's, uh,
uh, let, yeah, I'll get, let, I'll, I'll,
he wants to take us by
the end of the evening.
Yeah.
I, I think, uh, the, this, the whole
auction phase is kind of awkward and new
to this idea, so I, I wanted to give it
some time, but I, there's really not much
more to say about the auction process.
That's, that's it.
So, and all the questions that you
gave about the auction are very valid.
The, again, think about it, the intent
is like, let's make a system that's fair
such that people have a real opportunity
to like bid on these things and have a
real chance to get them, you know, if it's
a high value name, if it's Nike, I don't
know if Nike's taken or not, then, and
Nike really wants it, then Nike's gonna
pay what they feel it's worth, you know?
And uh, and uh, you know, if somebody
else wants it better because they
think that the Nike God is like their
favorite token or something, you know,
from Greek mythology, then, then maybe
they'll outbid the Nike Corporation.
You know, it's like, it's
really up to the market.
It's trying to put a free market spin
on this resource of the namespace.
so this section talks about,
uh, where do the auctions go?
Alle proceeds are burned.
This means the BTC use for bids is
permanently removed from circulation.
we mentioned this already, so effectively
by participating in this thing that may
or may not, you know, take off your.
Effectively making everybody's
Bitcoin a little bit more valuable
in your own little special way.
So thank, thank you everyone.
yeah, there's no other token.
There's no pre mine.
There wasn't any initial, like swoop
swooping up of names from the developers.
Uh, this is all out in the open and
it's all inspectable auditable on chain.
The code is open source.
Anyone can participate.
There's no permissions necessary.
You know, it's, it's on
the Bitcoin blockchain.
So it's, it's a global namespace.
It's, it is, but it, now somebody
else could do the same thing, but
they would have the same startup cost.
I mean, it's the same dilemma that
everyone has about Bitcoin, right?
They're like, well,
we'll just copy Bitcoin.
It's like, well, yeah,
you, you can copy Bitcoin.
Sure, but are you gonna
copy the network effect?
Are you gonna copy the minor,
you know, minor, uh, community?
Are you gonna copy all that?
No.
So, um, so yeah, name resolution,
We've talked a little bit, I mentioned
a little bit, and this is the thing
I've been kind of focusing on lately.
there is, there's a couple things.
One is you can, when you, because
these things are tied to a key, a
private key, it's, it's effectively
a taproot wallet with some special,
functioning to make sure that the
transactions get created properly.
But from that private key pair, you
can derive a noster key, a Nostra style
key, and you can then use your wallet
to sign Nostra events that's built in.
We don't really need
anything else for that.
but if you want more information
around that, then, well
this is a little function.
If you know someone else that has,
one of these name, uh, spaces,
wallets, you can send it your, you
can send sat straight to their name.
It's a little bonus, but.
That's probably not all
that useful right now.
I mean, it's more important that,
that, uh, you'd be able to use
it for other interesting things.
So, upcoming is, um, is, uh, record,
uh, na uh, basically they're copying
the, uh, the namespace zone files
just from a format perspective
and using that to then associate,
uh, other attributes to your name.
So this could be, like a, an a
record for an IP address or a text
TXT record for just any random
string, effectively an MX record.
If you wanted to refer to a mail exchanger
this way, again, the value of this,
none of this ever hits the DNS system.
So if DNS is down, this,
this still works, right?
As long as you have an internet.
So if the, the powers that be
decided that they wanted to control
everybody's ability to use Twitter,
I. And they shut down all DNS.
Yeah.
Twitter's, no one can use it,
but this would still exist.
This would still work.
Right.
And if Noster used this to address
its relays, then even if somebody
wiped out DNS completely or, or like
poisoned it so that all the answers
were wrong, this would still operate,
uh, completely independent of it.
some of the things that they're gonna
talk about that they're working on,
silent payment addresses, Noster
and Onion services, et cetera.
and, uh, and yeah, this, these,
uh, zone files are, are distributed
on a, hyper DHT node network.
So it's a separate thing that
kind of sits off to the side.
and we're trying to, you know,
get people, encourage people
to run these, uh, DHT nodes.
Uh, the, the, uh.
The name that they use
here is called Fabric.
It's effectively a hyper DHD uh,
distributed hash table, data set up.
It's, um, like I said, the closest
thing to it is, um, there's something
called mainline, DHT, which is
what we call the, the, um, bit.
what was it?
The, uh, yeah, bit torrent.
Sorry, I can I, I wanna say, uh,
something else, but anyway, question.
So you, you run this v ht, you run that
in addition to maybe having a Bitcoin
old that has a history of the Transac?
Yes.
Okay.
Yes.
Yeah.
This is a separate thing, because
they didn't wanna put extra
data on the Bitcoin blockchain.
Like, they want to keep the stuff
that's anchored in the, on the Bitcoin
blockchain as minimal as possible.
And they're really looking out, you
know, unlike, you know, ruins in
these things, which really blow up
the, the blockchains block space.
This, one of the intentions is to be
extremely minimal, as well as scalable.
so that's, we talked about
Subspace, that's not available yet.
It's, um, they're working on a, uh,
kind of a mobile, wallet that'll
allow you to do, um, all the
bidding activity so you don't have
to run the, the software yourself.
But after that, the subspace is the next,
thing that they're gonna be working on.
if we, if you want to dive in deep
into the, um, details of that, my, uh,
recommendation is to look at the white
paper, which covers the same stuff.
But it goes into a lot more detail
of how the subspace and you work.
Like how, how taking 'em on and
off chain works and how you do
lot this loss of liveliness.
That's the year long, sort of
event and it gets into all a
lot more nitty gritty details.
I'm gonna go, I'm gonna
kind of move along here.
let's look at the Explorer.
So if you pull up explorer space
protocol.org, you can get kind of a view
of where the the Bidding Act activity is.
And this top section is just
a, uh, a bit of statistics
about what's happened so far.
So where are we at block wise?
How many spaces exist?
Uh, e events are, are different, like
bids and, and sort of o outbid stuff.
So 1.42 VTC burned to date.
So, so far since November.
That's, uh, about
$120,000 worth of Bitcoin.
So somebody, somebody thinks this is
worth something, somebody's willing
to like roll the dice on this.
So, for, just for the, uh, the
recording, uh, Steven has a, a very
aghast look on his face, uh, right now.
Yeah.
So, uh, so yeah, it's, it's using it up.
Yeah.
1.4. Yeah.
To, okay.
And what's today's price?
I saw coming in here was about 80, 86
for $1.
So, yeah.
So these are the things
that are in auction.
let me, let me go first
to upcoming auctions.
So these are names that have,
been submitted but aren't in that
active auction bidding pool yet.
So this is only sorted by the bid value.
So, they recommend you don't
want to have too small.
There's, you get into this weird dust
config, like if it's too small a bid,
it starts mingling with dust VA values.
So they recommend you, you use at
least a thousand, uh, SATs to bid
initially, which is a buck, right?
Right.
Well, 80 cents right now.
86 cents, whatever it's right now.
So it's not a whole lot just to
get, kick things into action.
So these are, you know, you
could be James, James at Bond.
You know, if you get that
one, it's a thousand SATs.
Uh, looks like there's a couple pages.
Okay.
Audio.
So, um, these weird, funky things
are what they call puny codes.
I guess they're big in Japan.
I don't know.
they're effectively resolved to these
little symbols, like emoji kind of things.
So proof portfolio, some, some
of these might be interesting.
So these are all kind of
waiting in the waiting room.
Maybe kind of consider it the mem pool
of, of spaces, the current auctions
is what's going on now, whether what's
in that 10 day timeframe or if they're
at the 10th day and there's a active
auction that may, it may be, kicking
out, but they're still doing it.
So it looks like, looks like Prince
is in here with, uh, purple, uh, you
know, uh, we, some of these short
ones are, oh, somebody, somebody's
trying to get porn and they've
got it up to six bids up to 0.025.
So.
Yeah, you know, what they say about
how, how you advance a new technology.
You, you gotta like,
engage the porn industry.
So, um, sushi, so address, code, uh,
you know, address, that's not too bad.
I mean, you can kind of
see how that might be used.
You, it needs a little, you need
a little vision to kind of see
how, where, where this might fit.
I'm just gonna look at the next page.
We've got some more communicator.
Candy color.
Um, yeah, so let's look,
yeah, let's look at bid value sorted.
You can sort this by upper lower.
So currently, oh, I guess porn's,
uh, leading the charts here in the,
uh, how, how apropos is that, right?
Yeah.
Studio sushi team, uh, team
could be something useful.
Bingo.
how much is bingo?
So oh, oh three five.
Yeah.
So any of these, anybody like
want to jump in on these?
No.
Ego, no
previous options to see like
what the, the most expensive.
Okay.
Yeah, I was saving the best.
Yeah.
Yeah, I was saving the best for last.
Okay.
So yeah, past auction.
So let's, uh, sort this by bid value.
So the highest bid value is Bitcoin,
followed by ai and then one, one, I
don't know, SM these single letters X.
Okay.
You can kind of see X. So yeah, well,
maybe, maybe he did or maybe somebody
hopes Elon eventually wants it.
so
yeah.
So 0.025.
So that is, uh, is that 2,500.
About dollars roughly at
a hundred thousand cents.
Id, I was actually bidding on
ID for a while 'cause I thought,
yeah, I could see where ID would
be pretty useful, especially
with decentralized ID and stuff.
And I was back bidding back and forth.
I think we had it extending it for
about five days beyond the 10 days.
And finally whoever it was
like, uh, went to like 400 bucks
worth and I'm like, I'm out.
It's like not, I'm not
hanging in for that.
I don't want it that bad.
Which is kind of interesting.
You watch this or if you start
getting interested in participating
and trying to bid on stuff, you
kind of like look at the, trying
to game out the, the bid dynamics.
Like, you know, do I bid it up a
little bit and just drag it out?
Or do I like come in with a big over
bid and just like, like scare the other
people away or, you know, I don't know.
It's like, it's kind of fun to
see what's going on, but uh.
Some of, let's see, well, these,
like all these single letters.
Hello.
Went for 0.01.
How about that com?
What's that?
Red com.com.
It's in here somewhere.
see.
btc.bet dm. Oops, DM vm.
Yeah, you can look at the, so this is
vm, I just clicked on it so you can
see what the, what the bid action was.
So they came in at 1000 SATs and
then they went to seven, right?
It went wide away, then a little bit
higher, and then eight, and I guess
that's where it, the, where it ended.
So, but you can, you can search,
you can say calm if you want.
So calm went to what?
Let's see,
0.0 1, 2, 1 was the, uh, highest bid.
Do you have any other curious.
I'll, I'll put one that I was
work that I was, uh, bidding on.
Oh, wait, not strategy.
How about strategy?
Yeah.
You don't wanna like, spend
a bunch of money on something
that's misspelling, right.
So yeah, I was like, the day, the
day that like MicroStrategy announced
that they were changing their name, I
thought, I wonder if anybody over there's
like, paying any attention to this.
So I went and opened it.
Let's see, but I opened it for like
a thousand and then, uh, and then,
oh, I, I, I 10 xed it just to get it
into, I'd say, oh, I don't want it to
languish here for who knows how long.
Let me, let me get the bidding going.
So I 10 Xed it to just get things
started and then it rolled out.
Right?
So then it becomes that part
of the, uh, the Octa pool.
So then it's like.
Point oh oh two.
So what's that, 20 bucks, is that right?
Let's just round and then it went to
40, then 50, then 70, then 80, then 90.
And then where did it go?
Which, which next?
This is, uh, strategy on the screen.
Oh, up here In the upper left.
Okay.
See yeah.
So, so point.
So that's a hundred bucks, right?
About That's a thou, no,
no, that's a hundred.
I wouldn't have bid that high.
So then it's like 1200, 1300, 1402.
No, I mean, 152.
This is 220.
200, 300, 400. I'm like, uh, I,
I, I'm not gonna go any higher, so
whoever the guy, whoever, whoever
got it at 400 bucks so he can sell
it to Michael for 4 million bucks.
If Michael cares.
Who knows?
Again, this is kind of like, we
don't, we don't know, uh, anyone
are curious about any, so gov gov
gov, uh, went for 0.00175.
So, but, you know, what's that?
Alex?
So look, Alex, the name
is a, is available.
Alex could jump in or if you want
to piss off, Alex, you could jump
in, take off, and then resell.
There is a, I, uh, I'd have to go find
the, the, the link to it, but there is
a, a secondary market for those that
have won the auctions, but are reselling
them and you know, what about like
Smith or Jones, like top city Jones?
Nope.
Smith talking Jones.
Yeah.
Smith Jones you said?
Nope.
So Carson, who was the, uh, the, the,
the team lead and then Ben Carson.
This Mike and Carson.
Oh, it looks like somebody
snagged my last name.
Really?
Yeah.
That sucks.
I mean, you, you'd think pre,
pre who would, who would, yeah.
Anyway.
Uh, yeah.
Yeah.
So, yeah, let's, uh, let's,
uh, any other questions here?
I know it's a little thin on technical
detail, but, uh, it is working.
Alright.
Um, just to kinda wrap up.
I, uh, I've been working with the,
the folks to package this up to make
it easy to install and use for folks
that don't want to deal with, you
know, running Docker containers and
stuff on their own machine with their
own node and all that fun stuff.
Obviously you don't need to do it this
way, but if you're inclined and you've
gotta start nine, uh, so I've got it
packaged up for that and I'm working with
them to get to have when start nine in
the next major upgrade, they're gonna go
clear net, which means that then services
running on your start nine box can be
addressable from the outside world.
And that will open up the path of
putting the, the, uh, fabric node that
serves the DNH zones on here as well.
So you would just click install
it and suddenly you would be
participating in the, uh, the node
system that helps to support the,
to hopefully kind of reinforce that.
So that's mine.
Uh, this is what it looks
like when you run it.
It's just a, a little gooey
command line interface.
So there's, it's not a whole lot to see.
but you, you create your, you run this
command spaces, CLI or I, I alias it to
spaces, but I said list spaces, and this
is the eight that I know that I own.
Uh, you know, Lundy, I already
show, uh, revealed that I own
that one, but I own space as well,
and a few other, a few others.
but, it's, uh, one of the things, uh,
I'm working, so lately I've been working
on, uh, I took a, because, uh, it really
replaces a host name in a lot of contexts.
So what I was trying to do was to,
uh, hijack A-A-D-N-S, uh, server
that's doing some similar, uh.
Uh, name resolution and adding
the spaces resolution to it.
I've got it kind of mocked up and working
so that in A-D-N-S-I can use NS lookup
and say NS lookup at space and it works.
It gives me an IP address or a text
record using the DNS methodology, which
all everything's built around, right?
So, um, and then when I tried to do that
in a browser, it didn't work, of course.
'cause a browser sees the at symbol
and it says, I don't know what this is,
it's not a, it's not a host name, so
I'm not even gonna try to like find it.
So what the browser does is
it says it must be something
that they're searching for.
So it then kicks off the default search
engine and then passes that name.
And so what I ended up doing was I, uh, I
was working on a, uh, chrome, uh, search
engine, uh, proxy, uh, server, which
is basically just a no JS server that.
Understands how to
resolve these space names.
And then if it, if it doesn't
find it, then it passes it
off to the search engine.
And then you get the search results.
So if, if you type at space in your
browser window, it, it actually
goes to the space page, which is
the IP of my server, other server.
And if it's something else and it just
gives you search results so it doesn't
mess up your searching, but it kind of
hijacks that search engine, uh, mechanism.
And, and this is something that the
team and we're kind of resolving,
figuring out what's the best way you
can make a custom browser that would
understand how to deal with this.
You could create a custom noster
client to deal with it like inherently.
Is there any other questions?
I think we've hit a lot as we've gone.
It doesn't have any, can you put multiple
things to the same space in such space?
Well, you could put multiple
kinds of things to the same space.
Right.
But then if you had, you could use the
same thing and have multiple different
kinds of things direct for that right?
Question.
Well, like if, if like, you could
have, uh, like, uh, uh, I like an
A record, which is an IP address.
You can have multiple, I mean,
it's possible to have multiple IP
addresses, like for, you know, uh,
round Robin dispatching, et cetera.
you can have multiple text records.
You can have MX records,
you can have c name records.
You can have, you really don't
want to have name server or
start of authority records, but
most of the other stuff you can.
Um, but really to answer your
question, what you want to do is to
create sub subspaces for all their
different needs and then assign the
various kind of metadata to each one.
That makes sense.
So this is like my, like, you know, my.
Business wallet.
And this is my like personal wallet.
And this is my like pocket change wallet.
And this is like, each one of
those could have a different name.
So you can say like, send some Bitcoin
to my coin purse at, you know, Alex.
And then boom, it would go into that.
Well, the in the well, so
any, any other questions?
So you wait.
Uh, at space, right?
At space you could have Lundy at Space.
I could have Lundy at space.
I could have space at Lundy.
You tell me last.
Yeah.
And then you could also sell to
anyone Jean at Space, their name.
Sure.
And then if I knew last at
Space, then all the dots in
front of Lasseter would be mine.
I could sell the Rich dot Lasseter, I
could sell the Jimmy dot Lasseter, right?
I could, no, no, no.
Uh, you would have to go back.
I'm the at space guy.
Then if you want all those
other things, you would've to
go, come back to me for that.
That unlike this, what we're talking
about earlier, unlike where DNS is
de you can delegate those subdomains,
then that would be the case.
But in this case, even it's,
it's all one flat name space.
Okay.
Actually, I think we kind of
over time here, uh, this has
been a fascinating citation.
Everyone Clue has a lot of questions.
I recommend everybody, uh, walk on
the belt line with us to dinner and,
uh, buy Andrew a beer and ask him
my beers.
All right.
Still hum, right?
Very.
Okay.
One last personal plug.
And you can, you can cut this out of
the, uh, the recording, uh, well or not.
Uh, I'm still looking for work.
I'm available and willing to contract.
If you need something done, uh, let
me know, especially in this space.
Uh.
And yeah, that's, uh, that's it.
So thanks.
Hey, thanks for listening.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you want to learn more about
anything that we discussed, you can
look for links in the show notes
that should be in your podcast
player, or you can go to atlbitlab.
com slash podcast on a final note.
If you found this information useful
and you want to help support us, you
can always send us a tip in Bitcoin.
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Catch you later.