Tiffany(00:00):
Hello. Welcome to today's episode of The Money Sessions. I am your host, Tiffany McLain, licensed marriage and family therapist turned strategy fee strategist, fee consultant. I have a program called Lean in Make Bank, where we help therapists actually address their money mindset issues, so they're not playing out their money trauma in their clinical work. And today, this is actually an interesting episode. We are having our first ever registered dietician, registered nutritionist on the show, and she's gonna talk about her fee raising journey. And the reason I wanted to have her here, she actually went through our program. She snuck in somehow. We actually really emphasized that our program is for licensed mental health clinicians. I don't know if she asked, but I was like, you could try and see if it works, because we have such a heavy clinical emphasis. I don't know how well what we teach translates to other professions, but Meredith Blumenthal, who we're having on the show today, really demonstrates the power of doing your money mindset work, really looking at your own unconscious process, your relationship to money, and how it can impact your clinical work.
Tiffany(01:09):
So in this episode, Meredith is gonna talk about how she went from working for a larger clinic and starting to recognize, Hey, I'm doing all this work for $63,000 annually before taxes are taken out. So this dude up here at the top can get paid. This is not gonna work for me. So she's gonna talk about her journey going from working in a clinic to opening up her own private practice. She's gonna talk about why she did not start out on insurance panels. And guess what? It's not because she initially it's not because she had anything against insurance panels. It's not because she felt like she wanted to earn more. It was simply because she couldn't figure out the logistics of the complicated logistics of getting paneled with insurance, especially with her neurodiverse brain. It was overwhelming to imagine working that all out. So to her benefit, she ended up starting with a fee of $150, and ultimately now charges $225 per session and has a practice that actually takes care of her, where she can show up and do better clinical work.
Tiffany(02:06):
She also talks about how actually applying her feminist social justice lens led her to say, I'm actually not going to get paneled with insurance. I'm not gonna slide my fee, but I'm actually gonna step into a practice that values the work that women in our society do. When you look around and see, you know, who's paneled with insurance, who's making the lowest fees, whether it's in mental health, the mental health profession, or when you're looking at dieticians, women are vastly overrepresented in these fields. And their salary reflects a society that says women, minorities, you don't deserve to earn as much as your white male counterparts. We will hear how Meredith thinks about charging premium fees, taking care of herself financially as an act of rebellion. So get ready, get your pen out to take notes. You are going to love this episode. We dive deep.
Tiffany(03:04):
Now, if you're thinking I'm a licensed mental health therapist, I'm not a nutritionist, this won't apply to me. Stop. It will absolutely apply to you. You're going to be like, oh, holy smokes. You're gonna see the overlaps in how our fields and our colleagues talk about earning money. Especially if you're a woman. Ah, you're gonna hear the fears Meredith faced or experienced as she thought about raising her fees. And you're gonna hear what it was like for her to actually charge that fee for the first time. Plus, she's gonna give you two pieces of very clear, very strategic advice that you can take action on to actually start charging premium fees as a licensed mental health clinician. If you are new to the show, I highly encourage you to go to lean in make bank.com/free and download our fee calculator. You set the vision, you get clear about where you wanna be, what you actually want your day-to-day life to look like, what you want your practice to look like as a professional. And we will tell you exactly what your fee needs to be. We make it easy. We do it for you. You just do the dreaming and we will do the math. Now, let us dive in and hear from Meredith Blumenthal, you are going to really love this one, especially because we get to hear about what it's like to do this money work with a little bit of a different lens, a little bit of a different professional lens. Let's dive in.
Intro (04:33):
I think there's a difference between saying what your fee is and like fully committing to it. I believe in this like law of attraction, but you also have to take action. I don't think I do enough to help other people despite being, despite being a therapist, I was worried that I'd end up only serving wealthy people.
You know, I was being so delusional about my actual cost, right? I wasn't actually paying myself a real salary. Now that I am charging more, I'm not lying to myself.
This is ridiculous. Completely broken, man. If people knew who they were, do what she's doing, like she's doing this.
Tiffany(05:15):
There we go. Okay, folks, here we are. I'm with Meredith Blumenthal. Meredith I've been wanting to talk with for a while, so I'm glad we actually got this whole Money Session podcast back just so I could have this discussion legitimately with you, Meredith. So there we go. Thank you. Can you start and Oh, okay. I won't even, we'll just start. You are not a mental health clinician, right? You are the first ever nutritionist, dietician we've had on the show. So tell folks a little bit about your practice, who you love working with, and what that means to be a registered dietician. A registered nutritionist.
Meredith(05:49):
Yes. You got it. So my practice is all virtual private pay, premium fee. I, I run a nutrition counseling practice practice. So I specialize in helping women find like sustainable accessible health habits that are really rooted in self-care and not self-control. I'm putting quotes around that. And my background, my training is in eating disorders and body image coaching. So I end up supporting a lot of folks with emotional eating tendencies. You know, they're people that are dissatisfied with their weight and body image typically on a weight loss journey that has quote failed. And of course I also work with eating disorders in general, or folks that might suspect they have an eating disorder. Lately one of my passions is to work with folks that are entering perimenopause and perimenopause menopause. So there's a lot of physiological changes that happen.
Meredith(06:56):
And so I think that's a good segue into kind of more of what does it, what does my work look like versus a therapist's work. And I'd say, you know, it's a kind of a combination of the, like the science piece and sort of like health coaching. Because I am a registered dietician, I can actually provide nutrition support for someone with, you know, a diagnosed nutrition concern. So like high cholesterol or eating disorders, even though eating disorders is, is actually mental health illness. So that's where the, the eating disorders piece is where the, like the counseling and the overlap comes with my work and a therapist's work. So my work really ends up being really relational and sort of values driven. And I just, that's my framework. That's kind of who I am in the world. And so I think of my, I mean, I technically think I'm probably more of like a coach than I am, you know, a clinician, but yeah, it's, it's a, it's a big gray area.
Tiffany(08:10):
Yeah, definitely. E even from hearing you talk and from, from what I already know about you, you're clearly relational. You do a lot of what we would call clinical work. That's what you're trained to do. And you can also bring in like the science or how do we actually enact this in your day-to-day life and terms of nutrition. So you can bring both of those pieces together. Yes. With under your license.
Meredith(08:29):
Yep. Totally. Fabulous.
Tiffany(08:31):
Yeah, I could talk to you about perimenopause and menopause all day long. I'm like, oh, I wanna know more about that. But , I cannot, that'll be our next episode.
Meredith(08:39):
Another time. I know.
Tiffany(08:41):
Okay. So today we're gonna be talking about your journey as a registered dietician, what it was like to actually start charging premium fees, what it was like to actually go through that journey of creating a private pay premium fee practice. How does that sound?
Meredith(08:56):
Yep, sounds great. Love talking about it.
Tiffany(08:58):
Okay. So take us back to the days before you actually were doing that. What was happening in your day-to-day life, professional life?
Meredith(09:06):
Yeah. So I started my practice two years ago and I didn't even consider the option to go like all private pay. I had left a clinical job at a treatment center for eating disorders and was hearing from all my patients like that they needed to use their insurance. Mm-Hmm. Not that patients were coming with me. 'cause You know, what I'm doing in outpatient is very different, but they eventually do step down to people like myself. And they're saying they need to use their insurance. So the plan was always to find a few insurance companies to credential with. And then being myself with some neurodiversity the admin burden of getting credentialed with insurance felt so big. And because I was just starting out, I didn't have like money that I felt like I could invest in getting a coach to like just get me set up with insurance.
Meredith(10:07):
And then thinking about the admin burden after I'm credentialed and all of, you know, the money stuff, like, I'm not sure I'm gonna get paid. You know, hearing just horror stories about that from other colleagues was, was definitely like turning me off of taking insurance. But when word of mouth referrals kind of slowed down after I'd gotten started, you know, I had maybe a new, one new client a month for about four months. I was like, oh, what am I gonna do if I'm not taking insurance where my referral's gonna come from?
Tiffany(10:51):
What you're bringing up a really interesting point that I've actually never heard anyone speak to, which is actually the administrative challenge. All that actually takes logistically to even get up, get set up on insurance in the first place. We talked about that as being the easy path, but there's actually a lot of stuff you have to figure out and then maintain to work with insurance companies.
Meredith(11:13):
Yeah, I was, I went on to, I can't remember which it was maybe Regents. And I went on their website and just like did a bunch of digging and finally found an application going through the application. I don't even know how, like I don't even understand the questions they're asking me, . I'm like, how am I gonna answer this question? I have no idea what they're asking. So it was just, it felt really overwhelming. And I was also kind of like feeling stuck, you know? 'cause I'm like, I knew, okay, well if I'm not getting referrals through insurance or word of mouth, I'm gonna need to start networking and marketing and putting a lot of energy in that way. And that was not something that I was excited about at that time, to say
Tiffany(12:01):
The least. It looks like based on your facial expression, you did not wanna do that. Yeah.
Meredith(12:05):
Take
Tiffany(12:06):
Back to when you were working for the clinic. Mm-Hmm. What made you decide, Hey, I actually wanna leave this and go on in my own in private practice? What was happening for you then?
Meredith(12:16):
Yeah, I mean, simply put burnout, overworked and underpaid. I was also, you know, I was, I experiencing insurance from a different side in that job. It's really hard for folks with eating disorders to get the coverage that they need. And so I was spending like up to an hour on chart notes to put in enough detail so that insurance would cover, they'd authorize like three more days for the client and treatment. Wow. And then I'd get another review like three days later, and it was, so, it was all of that going on. Plus, you know, the eating disorder work is really intense, emotional on the emotional side. And then I'm like, why am I doing this? Like making some white dude that owns this company rich and like damaging my own health and wellbeing. Like, this literally makes no sense. Right? Yeah. So you're
Tiffany(13:28):
Like, all right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make myself some money. I'm gonna go figure this out. You decided I'm not gonna go on the insurance route. I'm going to 'cause it's too complicated. But then you got to this point where you're having people trickle in. Oh no. Did you, and it sounds like you did ultimately, well you tried to get on insurance. Were you ever on insurance?
Meredith(13:45):
I never followed through. I, like, I got stopped at the at the like, admin application stage because it just felt too overwhelming. When, when
Tiffany(13:56):
You went into your practice, how much were you charging folks?
Meredith(14:00):
One 50. Okay. Yeah. One
Tiffany(14:03):
50. At some point you realized you needed to be charging more than that.
Meredith(14:10):
Yeah.
Tiffany(14:11):
What made you realize that? What was going on?
Meredith(14:14):
So I think I just, you know, there was something that clicked and I had seen one of your free workshops. Somehow you came across my feed . And there was just something that clicked. It's like, I was just like, why? Why would I have to do all of this on the backend for insurance then even feel like I'm not guaranteed to get those payments. 'cause There's clawbacks and there's admin hurdles and sometimes they want, you know, wanna cover and sometimes they don't. There's just so much complication that I was kind of, and, and at the time I was actually working in restaurants. So when I quit my treatment job, I went right to restaurants. 'cause I have a background in that service industry. And then, yeah, just like was kind of slowly planning to taper down on the restaurant and taper up on the, or build up on the practice side.
Meredith(15:19):
And so I was kind of feeling burnt out because I was like, I only had like four clients, but I was like doing the restaurant stuff and doing doubles and just like, what, okay, so if I charge one 50, how many clients am I gonna have to see this work is intense? Is that, does that seem reasonable? Like, is that gonna work for me? And I just kind of like did the math and was like, no, no, I don't wanna see 20 to 25 clients a week. Like, that's not gonna work for me. I, the reason I quit the treatment center was 'cause I was burned out. So why would I just do the same thing right. All over again? Right. Yeah.
Tiffany(16:03):
So you are restaurant workers. So I also worked in the restaurant industry. That's hard work. So you're doing hard work over there and then hard work in your practice and you're like, okay, if I'm gonna be doing hard work, I wanna make money for it and be able to do less, do fewer hours. Totally. So you were at the point where you were had four clients, you were charging one 50 and you were thinking, I need to be charging more actually if I'm gonna have the life that I want. A lot of therapists might say like, okay, if I have four clients and I'm charging one 50, what I need to do is lower my fee actually to get more clients because, you know, I compared to get enough people to pay me one 50, you have the thought of like, I actually just need to raise my fee and figure out how to do that. Why that route? Why do you think you went that route?
Meredith(16:44):
Yeah. I think it's because I know myself well enough and I just knew that that wasn't a sustainable, like, that wasn't gonna be a sustainable number of clients for me to see for my wellbeing Hmm. Every week. Like, I just, I just wasn't willing to put myself in that position, I guess. And that's really, I mean, I think it's, I know it sounds simple, but just kind of knowing myself on that level.
Tiffany(17:14):
Yeah. What scared you or if anything, about the thought of actually charging more versus less?
Meredith(17:22):
Oh my God. I was terrified. First thing was, what are other colleagues gonna think of me for, you know, not making myself accessible to more people. Like, I was already feeling like, okay, one 50, I'm not taking insurance. That's like kind of on the higher end of what other dieticians in my specialty are, are charging. I also, you know, a lot of my work is, is based in social justice values. And so I was afraid colleagues were gonna see me as like, greedy or just like contributing further to the problem of like inaccessible care because it's really hard for people with eating disorders to get care care. So that was a big one. I also was afraid of judgment from clients just like thinking, you know, bottom line, your fees are too high. And then of course was like, I hope, I hope I don't lose all of my current clients. And then what if I do lose all my current clients and then I'm not getting referrals because my fee is too high. And kind of going through that loop in my head. And so that was, those were kind of the three I think things that were biggest fears.
Tiffany(18:43):
Those are big fears. Those are significant. Those are significant things that would sh would scare away and do scare away a lot of providers from making these changes. Okay. What year is this that we're talking where you're thinking like, okay, I gotta raise these fees. You're contemplating it. When was that?
Meredith(18:59):
That was 2023. January.
Tiffany(19:04):
In January. So right now when we're recording this episode, it is July, 2024. What are your fees now?
Meredith(19:14):
My intake session, so it's a, in a a 75 minute assessment is 3 75. And then my follow ups are 50 minutes and they're 2 25.
Tiffany(19:28):
Holy smokes. Okay. So when you first charged when you first charged what the 3 75 or even 2 25, your first client where you stated that fee, they said, okay, what was that moment like for you?
Meredith(19:40):
Oh my God, it was so good. When I like clicked the button, I was like, I felt like my life like flashed in front of my eyes. I'm like, this is what I paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for to get a graduate degree. Right? This is why I did what I did. And I felt like I was taking care of myself in a way that I had never taken care of myself before. And so I was also like just feeling really proud of myself too.
Tiffany(20:12):
That's phenomenal. And I love that you were like, this is why I paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to get here. We really divorce ourselves from the reality of how much we invested to get licensed time and money. And in that moment it was like, bing, this is in alignment with the investment I made to become a licensed professional.
Meredith(20:31):
Yes, 100%. And kind of in my head too, I have this comparison of my self to my husband 'cause he's very successful financially and you know, he has a bachelor's degree and I'm like, why am I making so much less than him with a master's degree? This makes no sense. .
Tiffany(20:50):
Holy mackerel. How
Meredith(20:51):
So? That was kind of a good baseline.
Tiffany(20:53):
We're gonna get to this. Oh, we're gonna get to this in the deep dive session, but I will, I will tip our hand a little bit. How do you, how do you answer that question? Why am I making so much less when then somebody with a bachelor degree? How do you start answering that?
Meredith(21:07):
Oh, yeah. So I started thinking about you know, like what is my mindset around money and what is like, what is my personal narrative around money and my earning power? And I realized, okay, my narrative around those things has absolutely been shaped by and held up by patriarchal concepts and systems. So, you know, like my, I would say my, my previous mindset was like, I just picked this profession that's a helping profession. I didn't choose it for the money. I chose it because I wanted to do it and I shouldn't expect to make like, you know, a a nice living doing it. Or I should, I should sacrifice my own wellbeing to support others, right? Put put other people ahead of ahead of myself. And then I just, I started thinking about it more and I started realizing, okay, I'm gonna feel that's dominated by women. This is interesting. And I don't know like how much you want me to go into it now, but that's really kind of just like where my mind went when I started thinking about the difference between my income and my husband's income.
Tiffany(22:41):
Let's go into it.
Meredith(22:43):
Yeah. Yeah. Well also I realize that most of my nutrition colleagues and you know, people in in fields adjacent to myself are women, right? Are, and then I'm thinking, why am I working in this? This is, you know, back to the treatment center. Why am I working in this job making some white dude that knows nothing about eating disorders rich and I'm getting paid $63,000 a year prior to taxes, right? To change people's lives. Like, and then we have the, this other thing going on, my husband's not in tech, but I think a really good example is I was just like, okay, so I'm doing this and making 63 k and now we have these like tech bootcamp graduates, whoof, I don't know how much they've invested, but it's not as much as I invested in my graduate program. I guarantee that without college degrees graduating from those boot camps with starting salaries of 150 to 200 k, like this logically makes no sense.
Meredith(24:04):
And so I really just started to kind of do some digging and started realizing that a way to increase my earning power and actually like in a sense, fight for other women to do the same thing, was to raise my fees and to not take insurance, right? Like, I started to realize kinda how much I hate the insurance shenanigans. Like that whole industry industry is just awful. And it perpetuates the wage gap between men and women. So that's really, I think those were like the, the big, the profound mindset and sort of values acknowledgement and shifts that were happening that really allowed me to like lean into, okay, 2 25 a session, let's do it.
Tiffany(25:14):
I wanna, you said something so remarkable and I wanna reiterate it. You said you raising your fee and actually charging a fee that's commensurate and not even commensurate with the amount of transformation you provide. It's hard to put a, a value on saving people's lives, really, you know, both literally and psychologically. But even saying like, I'm not gonna be charging only one 50. I'm not gonna be making 63 K before insurance, you know, before I pay taxes. I'm going to actually fight against this patriarchal system, this system that's so much devalues women and the work women do by charging a fee that takes care of myself, that takes care of me and model something to the rest of our industry. Make that a statement. Can you say a little more about that thinking?
Meredith(26:09):
Yeah. I mean, I think a simple way to put it is that contracting with insurance burdens, individual providers who are most often women that leads to burnout, right? Because we're overworking and getting underpaid financial, increased financial stress. And then what does that do to you as a clinician, right? Like, what does that do to how you're showing up to session, how you're interacting with clients, how effective you are in, you know, implementing your interventions. So it was just like starting to make sense to me that I was giving suboptimal care if I was taking insurance. And then suboptimal care leads to what, like worse clinical outcomes. So I'm thinking like, okay, logically it actually makes more sense not to take insurance and to charge a fee that makes me feel financially safe, right? And meets, meets my needs. 'cause I can show up and not be in this scarcity mindset, hamster wheel hustle brain, and in my body feeling that way too. Which, you know, absolutely, even though I'm, do I do virtual sessions? Like I know that that impacts how sessions go and how clients feel like a hundred percent.
Tiffany(28:00):
Yeah. I hear you said logically it made more sense to not get on insurance panels. And every practitioner is in their own phase of the journey making the decisions they're making for whatever reason they need to. But I would add, based on hearing your story and your situation, not only logically did it make more sense, but ethically yes. Ethically it made more sense for you to not be on insurance because you could show up as a better clinician. You're not spending all this brain space and admin time trying to fight with insurance companies. And if we're thinking about a larger social justice lens, ethically, I'm getting goosebumps. You're not supporting the system that's burning out, particularly women burning 'em out. Overworking says what they're doing is not valuable and you're making money for them at the top that's not aligned with your values, actually.
Meredith(28:46):
A hundred percent. Yep. Yep. Exactly. And the only way to not participate in the, or the only way to fight the system is to opt outta the system. So it just, it made sense on all, all the levels. Yeah. And that really helped kind of relieve any of that fear I had of like, okay, you know, I, you know, I'm still in this body liberation face group Facebook group where people are constantly asking for referrals for folks with eating disorders and you know, absolutely no out of network, you know, looking for, for a provider, you know, dietician for 18-year-old female, you know, whatever. Like no out of network. Deep sliding scale, you know, 'cause it's like this very social justice like, I guess oriented group of folks. And I'm just like, okay, I hear you. I get it. And like that doesn't like, just because I'm charging 2 25, just what you, what you said, everything. You just, you just summarized like, I'm also living into these values and I'm still a part of, I can still be a member of this group and feel okay about it.
Tiffany(30:08):
It really flips the message we've been indoctrinated with. It flips it on its head when you actually think about what it means to be having social justice values, but also applying them to yourself Yeah. As a woman or a person of color who's in the system that has been unjust. Like, we're actually gonna step up and take up our space in the world.
Meredith(30:31):
Yes. Yes. It's like, you know, just participating in those systems is perpetuating putting other people before yourself. Mm-Hmm. . And if we're wanting to, like, if our true passion and value in life is to help support others and help others heal, like every, you know, we even tell our clients like, you can't help someone else until you have healed yourself. Right. Or until you are supporting yourself. Right. And then we're just doing the opposite. Like, I've always, you know, felt like I need to put my money where my mouth is. Like with clients, like with my eating habits, you know, I say all foods, all foods fit, right? Like there's no good foods, there's no bad foods. And I do that, you know, I am like in session eating candy with clients. 'cause Like, I honestly, that is how I live my life, right? It's like, it's the same thing with the self-care piece and Yeah. Just like really truly honoring your own needs before others.
Tiffany(31:48):
Yeah. I love that. Living it your values versus just being up there talking about it. Talking
Meredith(31:53):
About it. Totally. Yep.
Tiffany(31:55):
I it makes me curious, one of your worries when thinking about actually raising your fees and charging what you need to charge was how your colleagues would perceive you. Yeah. Have you gotten any pushback? Have you gotten any shade from your wider professional community?
Meredith(32:10):
Not to my face. Not that I know of. In fact like I shared with you, I think before we were recording, I love talking about this stuff so much 'cause I'm so passionate about it and I've had such like an amazing amount of growth come from this journey that I'm like, dude, you guys need to raise your fees. And they're like, okay. So basically like anybody that I've shared, any colleagues that I've shared with that already have like a kind of a closer relationship with, have all been like, yeah, you're right. And then they go and raise their feet.
Tiffany(32:51):
fabulous. Woo-Hoo. Yeah, you went first.
Meredith(32:54):
Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So that feels, that feels great. And yeah, to be honest, I'm like, I don't care if people are saying things 'cause I just, you know, it, it is, it does feel ethical to me and it is social justice rooted. So it's okay for them to be wrong about me .
Tiffany(33:19):
I love it. I love it. One of the, so we have a program, you know this, but our listeners might not not know, called Lean and Make Bank. I think you're the only non mental health professional who's gone through it. Licensed mental health, like in the therapy space mental health therapy, who's gone through it. We have a really heavy clinical focus in that program on how to like, have money conversations with your clients, how to think about projection counter transference. Did does that stuff come into play in the type of work you do as well that dieticians do?
Meredith(33:51):
Yeah, that is such a good question. Listen, to be honest, most people do not know what a dietician is unless they're a doctor .
Meredith(34:04):
But there are lots of different roles and specialties that we can take as dieticians just like, you know, nursing or even in mental health, right? You can be work in community health, you could be a psychologist, you could be all of these things. My specific specialty, because it, it is eating disorders really requires a lot of knowledge around mental health, mental health interventions really robust counseling skills. Mm-Hmm. . And just, it requires a lot of counseling and holding space and a lot of collaboration with therapists. And so for me personally you know, I did wrestle with, I think there's kind of this old school dietician kind of mentality around like stay in your scope. You know, like stay in your lane. Like you shouldn't be counseling, you shouldn't be talking about, you know, attachment wounds and you know, et cetera, et cetera.
Meredith(35:13):
But when you work with eating disorders, when you work with people on their relationship with food, you don't even have to have an eating disorder. It is not about the food. It is absolutely not about the food. And it's unavoidable to talk about you know, trauma and all that stuff. So I've kind of made peace with the fact that I can take it to a, a an acknowledgement level. Like, oh, this is coming up for you. Can you think back to a time that you were a certain age where, you know, you first remember experiencing this and they say, oh yeah, like my mom used to say this to me all the time. Like, you have to clean your plate, right? And I'm like, yeah. So no wonder that's what's playing out in your head right now. Right? So it's like kind of keeping it top level and then saying, so maybe you should go back to your therapist and do some of that trauma work.
Meredith(36:14):
You know, we're, we're focusing on kind of the here and now. And so when it came to full circle, when it came to talking about money with clients in session, I really leaned into that skillset and decided this does apply because I'm in, this does apply to me even though I'm not in the mental health field, like I am in relationship with my clients and we have a business relationship and we have a therapeutic relationship. And that is the same as it would be if I was a therapist, a mental health therapist. And so what ended up happening when I was having those conversations with clients is I, I did have like, particularly one client, I'll never forget, she was so that I raised my fee and, you know, I thought she was gonna fire me. I thought she was gonna, you know, leave.
Meredith(37:20):
I thought I didn't know if we would have a repair in the conversation. And it ended up being so clinically powerful for her having that conversation and our relationship and it just propelled her even further into her recovery and more independence. And, you know, I've, I looped in her therapist. 'cause I think at that point mom was paying for sessions for her and mom was gonna, mom was already saying, I'm not gonna pay sessions anymore. So client was paying sessions, paying for sessions, but then also like giving her mom money on the side that was not like solicited for mom. She was just giving her money. And so there was all this like, clinical stuff. I'm like, go, go talk to your therapist about this. Like, this might be a conversation you have with mom. I don't know. But it really did. It was like so impactful to our relationship and to her healing.
Tiffany(38:29):
It's really interesting to have
Meredith(38:30):
That conversation.
Tiffany(38:31):
When you say that I when you were saying, you know, it's not about the food. It's not about the food. Like, you know, that when you're working with clients, I'm like, it's not actually about the money. Like the money is a symbol. And it sounded like you were actually able to go in and your fee raise brought, its it like goosebumps. It symbolized all this underneath stuff that you were able to help this client realize was there, have it have that discussion within your relationship and make profound changes in other aspects of their life.
Meredith(38:55):
Yep, exactly.
Tiffany(38:56):
That's wonderful. Yeah. So where are you, where are you licensed to work?
Meredith(39:02):
So licensed to work in the state of Washington, Uhhuh . And California doesn't actually require a state license for dieticians. Since I have, you know, registered dietician is a national great license. And then depending on the state yeah, it's a little bit complicated, but it's easier for dieticians to practice or nutrition professionals to practice than it is therapists in states they do not live in.
Tiffany(39:40):
Okay. The, I love that. The reason I'm asking, 'cause I'm like, I know there are therapists listening to the show right now who are like, I would love to collaborate with a dietician who understands who's thinking at the level you're thinking, who's understanding at the level you're understanding. And it also understands the therapy world. Like you, you have your foot in both of these worlds. So when you're thinking about therapists who are listening to the show and they're thinking, oh, I might have a a client who would benefit actually from working with you Mm-Hmm. What might they be noticing coming up in the therapy session that you would actually be partnering with you clinically would be really helpful for that client and that therapist to help their client? Who would that client be?
Meredith(40:15):
Yeah, really good question. I think oftentimes it's a client that is having a hard time prioritizing themselves with food and movement. Mm-Hmm. Oftentimes a client who is wanting weight loss, right? So they've got a lot of body image stuff coming up. I don't know if this is true, but I've been told that that stuff tends to get pushed uhhuh to the, to the side or whatever. Or last priority, right? Other stuff kind of comes up first when working with a therapist I'm also a body image coach. Like I've done some extensive training in body image coaching. So yeah. Anything body image related. And then yeah, if they just are having issues with food, no matter what that looks like, if they feel like they're eating too much, if they're having a hard time feeding themselves, like, and anything and everything between yeah,
Tiffany(41:22):
It's, it's really helpful to hear. I'm thinking about the therapists who are listening the thousands. We have a lot of people who listen to the show. So therapists who are having a client who's maybe talking about, oh, weight stuff is coming up, or like, oh, I should get to the gym. Or maybe who, what, there were different ways that manifests therapists we're not, actually, it is not in our wheelhouse to say like, well, let's think about your nutrition or what do you eat? Like, we shouldn't be doing that stuff, or that's not really, yeah. So I would encourage therapists listening to contact Meredith and act even consult yourself of like, Hey, this is what's happening with my client. Is this a situation where I should be referring them to you? Or I should be consulting with you to think about what the best steps are. Like, we should not be doing that work. We should also not just be putting it to the side and saying, well, let's just focus on your mental health. These things need to be addressed, especially if they're coming up recurring with your clients or within your clinical work. Yeah. That's one thing that comes to mind actually, all this pause right there. If therapists are listening right now and saying, oh, I need to talk to Meredith, how can they find you or work with you?
Meredith(42:21):
Yeah. they can find me on Instagram at nutrition with Meredith. And then I've got my website, which is nutrition with meredith.com Great. And my email, which is meredith@nutritionwithmeredith.com.
Tiffany(42:40):
Okay. And we'll also put all these, so folks who are listening, look in the show notes underneath this episode and you'll see all of these links there as well. Thank you. Yeah. And you also mentioned one of the things when we were emailing back and forth that really struck me is something around the difficulty marketing, especially this Oh yeah. Marketing. Because women might be like, I just wanna lose weight. I'm thinking women, of course, I'm a woman. I just wanna lose weight. That's my goal. And you're trying to help them with something different. So can you talk a little bit about what people say they want in this space versus what you are actually trying to provide and how that kind of shows up with your marketing challenges?
Meredith(43:15):
Totally. Such, such a good question and such a marketing conundrum for me. So I would say there's, there are there's kind of a camp of dieticians, nutrition professionals that call themselves sort of like anti-D diet or intuitive eating nutritionists, dieticians, et cetera that really work on and sort of advertise relationship to food, like healing your relationship with food. And that is a lot of the work that I do. And I think that attracts mostly folks with diagnosed eating disorders or people that are like, Hmm, I think I might have an eating disorder, but have never sought help for it. I really wanted to differentiate myself because I feel so strongly about this framework of intuitive eating and like you know, embodied living values driven choices around health and self care that I wanna apply it outside of the eating disorder kind of community.
Meredith(44:35):
And then also ethically speaking, I know how hard it is for folks with eating disorders to get access to care. And when you have an eating disorder, you need a medical doctor, you need a dietician, you need a therapist, you might need higher level of care. Like that's a ton of money and I'm charging 2 25 a session. Like I am not making myself accessible to them, really. And so my thought was, I wanna work with the people that are in stuck in this loop of chronic dieting, but they're not conceptualizing it that way. The way they're conceptualizing it is every time I try to lose weight, I maybe have, you know, a little bit of success and then my willpower falls through the floor and I'm just like, oh, I can't, I can't stand the cravings anymore. And then I just go and start the it diet.
Meredith(45:31):
Right? or the last, the, the last supper tomorrow, like I'll start tomorrow. Right? and helping them to see that, that mindset is what's keeping them in that loop. And so what that loop is, is they're, they feel about their body and their health and or their health. They go on a diet, they feel deprived, they binge, you know, because they've been re you know, literally starving themselves not eating enough, and then they feel guilty and then their body image is worse and then they go on a diet again. It's like just this loop that keeps happening, but I don't think the clients themselves are conceptualizing it that way. Yeah. And then the other piece of it too is that intentional weight loss recommendations can often be really harmful. Mm. If we think about just even the research around diets, like how unsuccessful they are. Mm-Hmm. , you know, yeah. Doctors are, doctors are handing 'em out right and left. And 95% percent of people that are, that are doing them are, quote, failing. Right. But that's because they're set up to fail. Like that's what diets are. they're set up to starve you, and your body is really smart , it's gonna help you find some food in any possible way that it can to keep you alive.
Tiffany(47:02):
It's gonna win. You can't beat that. Can't,
Meredith(47:04):
It's gonna win. Totally.
Tiffany(47:06):
That makes me, I wanna make another recommendation then for folks listening. So for folks listening, if you are a therapist who's working with a client and you're recognizing some of these patterns and you wanna consult with somebody who understands registered dietician, I encourage you to call Meredith either to consult on your own clinical work or to make a referral so you, you both can work together to help your client actually improve in this area of their life. Or if you're a therapist who recognizes you're in this loop, because I know so many therapists who are in this loop without even being aware of it, I'm just gonna hunker down, you know, gonna between sessions on exercise and I'm gonna self-care. It's gonna be great. And then you're just in the spiral, I'm crashing and burning and then trying again. You actually might wanna just set up a session with Meredith
Meredith(47:49):
Tiffany(47:50):
In your own life. So once again, I have wr written down Instagram Nutrition with Meredith. I recommend you go there if you're on Instagram, and you can also go to your website, nutrition with meredith.com. Yeah.
Meredith(48:01):
Yep.
Tiffany(48:02):
Okay. Meredith,
Meredith(48:03):
Thank you. I'd love to hear from you, .
Tiffany(48:05):
Yeah. I highly encourage you to reach out. And I also, and also, you know, Meredith is someone who also understands what it means to value your fee and to understand that through a social justice lens. We don't just talk the talk, but we walk the walk. So I also think it's a great, you know, a great person to talk with for any therapist who's has a premium fee practice or is working towards that but doesn't quite know how to get it. All good things to work with somebody like Meredith in this space. Meredith, I'm gonna put you on the spot a little bit, but if you're thinking about someone who's listening to this and they're, whether they're a, that'd be cool if we had some dieticians, I don't know who all the service provider kind of service providers who listen to the show, but a woman, a service provider who's in this place of, oh, I'm charging this fee. I know it's too low, but I'm afraid if I raise it all, my colleagues will hate me. They say, I'm selling out what's, you know, one or two pieces of either strategic advice, like, you know, here's how you can do it. Or even just a shift in how they think that you'd recommend to somebody who was where you were a few years ago.
Meredith(49:02):
Yeah. I think strategic advice. Do the math. Figure out what your fee needs to be, even if you can't wrap your head around it yet. Do the math. 'cause The math don't lie. .
Tiffany(49:19):
Yes.
Meredith(49:20):
And then I think one thing that was really, really helpful for me, and it was not a small thing, was getting over the hurdle of asking for help. Mm. Like asking for help is not a failure. Right. Ask for help get coached, build a community of like-minded people to talk about these things with. You know, it really, really helps. I think you, it helps you see that there are people that feel and think the same way that you do about Yeah. Values and how you run your business. And also oftentimes in those communities that you end up building, you've got people that are ahead of you on the journey, right? So you can actually see people, oh, she's charging 2 25 a week, she's only seeing 14 clients a week. Wow. Like, I know that doesn't feel possible for me, but maybe it's possible for me 'cause she is doing it. Right? Yeah.
Tiffany(50:25):
I love that. Thank you so much. So one, do the math. Look at reality, get in touch. Don't avoid it even if it's scary. At least know, number one. And then once you know, you can put yourself around people who are doing the thing you wanna do and start imagining, okay, what if, what is Meredith doing? If she can do it, can I do it? Let me actually get to know her as a human being in the world who I can engage with and ask questions. I love this. Meredith, this has been a fascinating conversation. Thank you for being on the show. Thank you for being so generous and sharing about your journey. I've loved having you.
Meredith(50:54):
Yeah. I have loved every second could keep going on and on and on.
Tiffany(50:58):
, I know already. I'm like, I'm supposed to wrap up 10 minutes ago. What? I just keep asking you questions, so we really will wrap up and it's been a pleasure to speak with you.
Meredith(51:07):
You too.
Outro (51:14):
All right. Whatever you're doing, I want you to pause. If you're driving, pull over. If you're chopping a carrot, put that knife away. If you're making sweet love to a woman, well, I mean that's, that's, that's kind of flattering in a weird way. Huh. You can go, you can just go ahead and you can keep doing that. But for the rest of you, if you learn even just one thing of value today, please share this episode with even just one therapist who could benefit from the message. Here's how, if you're listening on iTunes, click on the episode and you'll see a small purple circle with three dots. Click on those dots and you're gonna see the option to share at the bottom of the list. Click that and you can just go ahead and share it on Facebook, or you can even just text it to one therapist who you know needs to hear it. If you're listening on Stitcher, just tap the triangle icon on the upper right corner. It's next to the menu that displays your upcoming playlist. You'll see the option to share the episode you're currently listening to Right on Facebook. Look, it's time to get the word out. We gotta spread the message. Thank you so much, and we'll join each other again soon.