Seven figure success starts when you start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the John Kitchens Coach Podcast.
Experience is your host, John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger and transform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
What's up?
Hey, how are you?
I'm good.
It's great catching up with you.
I, uh, it was funny.
We were, uh, before we hit live here, we were talking about your hometown, uh,
which I got to experience the last two summers, which is pretty freaking cool.
Um, you know, the last year was really cool, just kind of in the,
in that summer, uh, obviously.
What was going on leading up to election year?
So you had a, you had a little, little bit of, uh, you know, American
Pride being around the 4th of July.
It was, it, it was really awesome.
But, uh, being able to go back there again this year, but kind
of have my bearings now, knowing where everything's at and being able
to be a little more comfortable.
Um, it's, it's really cool.
I, I, I will say that's pretty cool.
It's.
A lot has changed since we've, uh, since we talked last.
Um, so yeah, fill me in, man.
What the heck is going on?
Yeah, so a lot has changed.
So where do I even start?
Um, well you live in Arizona, but you run your business in, in Jersey still.
So like, let's talk about that.
Okay.
So I do live in Arizona now.
I'm from New Jersey, which we just talking about.
Wildwood, New Jersey.
I grew up at the Jersey Shore, second home market.
Couldn't wait to get out of there when I finished high school because although
it's really fun in the summer, it, in the winter, there's just nothing.
Everybody leaves, neighbors are gone.
They're a resort town.
And if you're listening to this and you know me at all, like slow pace
does not work, doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for me at all.
So I just really hated it, always growing up.
And so, um, it's funny, I always say I, we got a little seasonal
depression too because I love sun.
I wanna be outdoors.
That brings me to where I live on the sunniest, live in
the sunniest, warmest place.
So when you moved outta Wildwood, so before you moved to, to Arizona,
so where, where were you at?
Where was the primary market?
So my primary market was actually like Camden and Burlington Counties.
So I, when I left, I graduated high school in 2001, aging myself.
Right?
So when I left there, then I went and moved up to Philadelphia.
Okay.
I went to the college at Weidner.
I lived with my aunt.
And I met my husband there, Brian.
So Brian is from Washington Township, which is Glou County, which is about
an hour and a half from the shore.
That's the, that's the, the primary that's Youre so home like we were, so, I was
in, I was about an hour, hour and a half.
Come outta Philly, across the bridge.
Now you're in Jersey, so that's right in there.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I, my primary real estate market was new, was in like, Camden,
Burlington County, New Jersey.
It, and so we lived in Marton.
So I didn't really have roots there either, right?
So my roots, I mean, I'm from Pennsylvania.
My parents moved down to the shore.
Like I really didn't have anywhere where it's not like there's
nowhere where I was gonna have coffee with my family every day.
Well, I guess if I went back to Iowa, I would would, but, um,
our primary market was Marton.
We built that for nine years.
In three counties.
So Gloucester, Camden, and Burlington County.
I grew all three of those counties 'cause I built my business through prospecting.
Yeah.
So it was FSBOs and expired.
So when you're FSBO and expired, you kind of go where the business is.
Mm-hmm.
So it was about an hour radius that I worked and, um, we built our team there
and we're really systematized, which, you know, we coached together for a long time.
Like we're very high on systems, accountability on processes, so.
You know, a lot happened.
I don't even kind of know where to start, but how we ended up in Arizona
was our, our team was doing well.
We were kind of at a crossroads.
We were making some changes and.
Brian, who is my husband, my director of ops, he has his
master's in accounting and finance.
He wasn't in the corporate world, but I was selling 75 houses a year,
and everything was always on fire.
So he pretty much came over to fix it and, and I tell that story a
lot where it was like, in our life, babe, like, you know how you just.
I have an idea and then I don't even know how it happens.
And then it just happens.
Like, can you call me that in my business?
And that's what he does.
So he pretty much is the integrator I know is what you are, the piece.
And we talked about it and we tried to figure it and stitch it together.
You know, what, what we have, we need to go find and, you know,
what's wild And, and see in a lot of husband, wife, you know,
significant other type situations and.
Just looking at being able to bring that component in, right?
Like I have, um, a team we're working out with out of Johnson
City and he was head of company, head of sales, driving everything.
The face, it's still the name of the company, but we were like, just
because you're head of company doesn't mean you should be head of company.
And, and, and taking into consideration what is the dang goal.
What are we trying to do?
What are we trying to accomplish?
And what, what we found is that his fiance been with him and been
in the business for eight years.
We're like, she's built to run this company and allow you to
just focus on stacking cash and finding investment opportunities.
And it was just like.
It's right underneath what's the, you know, coach Bird always says, right.
You can't see the picture inside of the frame.
So being able to, you know, step out of that and having that perspective, and
that didn't happen overnight, right?
That was like me going four assistance in one year and like trying to
be the integrator that I wasn't.
Right.
And you had 'em right there.
And so it's like how we create this situation to where it, it
makes sense to make that move.
Yeah.
And so, so we had, so he's process oriented and he understands that so well.
And so he kind of came in and put a process around it.
We were able to build and I could just do what I do, which is sell
and inspire and, and speak, connect.
The market changed.
We were growing really fast.
We grew everything really fast.
'cause that's my personality together.
We're growing it, we're building a team, we're growing our systems really fast.
We grew our expenses really fast.
Everything's kind of just moving faster than it should have in the market changed.
And so the market changed and we're like, we gotta figure this out.
Like what makes sense?
We have to.
A little bit because we all have to do that when there's changes in the market.
And I think we would all love to work a 2021 market forever.
Sure.
It was easy.
Right.
That was a really fun market.
It was blowing and going.
It was fast.
It was your speed.
It was moving fast.
It was my speed.
Like yeah.
You didn't even have time to like get to know your clients before you sold
their house and they were on their way.
Like I, it was just so fast, you know?
It was so fun.
So we're pivoting, we're still hiring agents and, and agents aren't feeling as
excited anymore either because back then.
I mean, you could be a part-time.
I had a part-time agent selling houses a year.
Yeah.
Because we knew how to feed the beast and bring the leads in and then we
were just falling outta the sky.
Right.
So, anyway, Brian and I were pivoting.
We were looking at our business.
We do this weekly where we have weekly just operator, you know, we have
our, our level 10 meeting percent, and that's what we were doing.
Right.
EOS model.
We still do that.
And I just asked a question and it was really random, and it was, if we
could do this, if we were gonna do this all over, if we burned it all down to
the ground and we're gonna build it over, I built it through prospecting.
Would we do it here?
And he was like, F no.
Why would we do it here?
It was like the hundredth day of rain in a row.
Yeah.
And um, like, well, let's not, like do we have to?
Let's go somewhere else.
Let's just do it.
Let's just, let's just go.
And it was just such the right timing.
That was one conversation.
And there's a couple times in my life where I can say one conversation a lot
of times between Brian and I, the first one in Jamaica, when I was like, Hey, you
know how I said let's go to Jamaica, and then you figured it all out and I didn't
even know what airline we were flying.
Can you come do that in our business?
That was like, we were in Jamaica, laying on the beach one day and Monday of the
next week, Brian put his, put his note in.
So let me, lemme ask you, let me ask you about that because I, I love, um,
understanding, you know, how people go about making decisions, right?
So what was the, the process to make the decision?
But also, you know, you, you and I are a lot alike when it comes to control, right?
Like, you know, I. I've had to learn throughout the years to
start to let go what matters?
What can you, what, what can you hang onto?
What can't you hang onto from a control aspect?
So for, for you really at that point, maybe you found a place finally, you
just surrendered, but trying to control so much and making that decision.
Do you, do, have you reflected, have you thought about kind of
that process for you at that time?
So the thought process of making the decision?
I think that, that I.
In a spot where I wasn't feeling like myself, like I was feeling
like a little burned out.
And in some ways I was even like, is this, is this what I'm meant to be doing?
Right.
Like even pray on it.
Like, is this what I'm meant?
Is this, this doesn't feel like I'm meant to be.
This doesn't feel right.
I didn't know what it was.
Did you ever have that feeling like just in your stomach where
you're like, something is off.
And it's up to me to change it.
And I didn't know exactly what it was.
I mean, is it location?
I don't know if it was a hundred percent just location, but I think I was making
some big changes over those couple years.
Right?
Like I moved brokerages, I made up, I did a partnership like I was.
Trying to find alignment and the right, the right place, right.
So I think when I make a decision, I, a lot of it, I am a gut thinker.
Like I feel, I'm really feeling basic.
I could feel that it was off and I could feel that I wasn't myself, right?
Where I'm like, I'm not my hungry go after itself.
Like, I'm like living under.
This pressure, it just didn't feel like me.
So I think that's where it was.
And then it was like, well, what if we could just do
something else somewhere else?
Like we're not stuck here.
We don't have to be here.
There's nothing holding us here.
And that's kind of what it was.
And then Brian, the amazing thing about Brian is Juan, he's my absolute
biggest supporter and cheerleader, and he also feels when I'm off, whereas
Brian's more of a stable guy, like he's always kind of fine and good.
He's, he's amazing.
He's my favorite person, but like he can feel when I'm off too.
And also he's never like against my crazy ideas.
There's never something that I say where he's like, you're just such, I mean, he
does say that sometimes, but usually he's not like, you're an absolute like maniac.
No, we're not doing that.
He was like, what would that look like?
Yeah, that's good questions, but what would that look like?
So I think that's what we started to think about.
Well, where would we go?
Like we didn't have a decision on where we were going.
I'm like, we don't, this sucks.
Like, why is it still raining?
I'm cold.
I hate being cold.
Why do we have to wait till we're tired to not be cold?
Yeah.
Like, so we just started talking about where, and, and um, we came across Arizona
because it's sunny 300 days a year.
I know a lot of people here.
I'm a partner with place.
There's a lot of place people here.
I also, one interesting thing about why here made sense was the time zone.
So like I can work the East coast, I'm an early bird, so is he like, we're up.
Like I don't care if I'm on the phone at 5:00 AM so we can actually work those
early mornings and then if we wanna build it in Arizona, we still have, I mean.
By 9:00 AM I could have already gotten three, four hours of work in.
Yeah.
Wow.
You know, by noon I could be gone with Jersey.
So that was another, a decision factor where Florida would've worked because
we'd still be on East Coast same time.
What is, so yeah, it was, it's um, you know, Kevin, um, has
obviously, you know, his market's been, you know, Northern Colorado.
You know, for, for years.
And then they just obviously become an empty nester.
So they bought, you know, had a, had a new place built in Sarasota, and, and that
was the original thought process, right?
Like, you know, be in Sarasota.
But once he, once he got there, he is like, I just wanna build Colorado
and then enjoy my piece here.
And I'm like, that's, yeah, that's an aha, right?
It's like one of those things you think what you want it to be
until you actually get into it.
And, and so, you know, you just, you never know until you try it.
So exact same thought process.
So coming here, I'm like, can we keep Jersey going?
Do I, I have to find a leader in Jersey, right?
This is not, I'm not gonna be able to run this myself remotely.
That was myth number one.
'cause I can, but in initially, I was like, I'm not gonna be able to recruit.
How am I gonna recruit remotely?
How am I gonna lead my team remotely?
I'm not gonna be able to do that.
That was myth number one, which I'm already busting that, not that I
won't need leaders eventually, but I also thought my physical presence was
more important than it actually is.
So unpack that a little bit.
So, you know, call the myth, you can't do that.
What, what have you found?
I've found that my physical presence isn't necessary, just
like you and I aren't physically present with each other right now.
I mean, I've been with cloud-based brokerages for over five years.
I'm with a cloud-based partnership within place.
Like I don't.
No, I don't think the physical presence matters.
And in fact, the systems and the leadership and the marketing, all
of that matters and agents don't wanna come to the office anymore.
Like a lot of people are gonna argue with me about that.
And there are still old school people that are like proximity in person matters.
You know what?
It doesn't make sense for some of the agents on my team.
I told you I build it across three counties for them to drive 40 minutes to
be in the office when they can do that.
From their home office or a Starbucks and then they can go on an appointment.
It doesn't make sense.
So it was actually having the office was limiting sometimes 'cause it was
annoying for agents to have to come in.
And then I was annoyed they weren't coming in.
And I'm spending six grand on office rent for this beautiful office
that I have staged beautifully.
And it's amazing and nobody wants to come and I'm like.
Wait a minute, but they're like, why do I have to force them to come Uhhuh?
Like, she's crushing it.
Why am I like fighting with her to drive 40 minutes to like, do this here?
So that was one thing that I thought I needed was the, the physical presence.
And I don't, I just need to be present.
What do, what is, is that what they want?
They just want your, they want, they want you to be present.
Uh, you know, the biggest thing that I saw, and I think it was, it
was, it might be the same thing.
If they knew you were always in the office, they knew they could
get presence and time with you, um, by, by coming into the office.
But if you're not there and you can give them more focused attention this way
than you can by being in the office.
'cause I, I remember like my days in the office, especially
when I started coaching.
And like had to shut the door.
Like when they would come in, I couldn't look at 'em.
I had to, you know, try to stay engaged.
And I, I, I think you're a hundred percent spot on.
They just want, they, they, I know what they want.
They want your time and attention.
And if you could give it to 'em virtually, be more present virtually than you
can actually in person, that's a win.
It's more purposeful.
It's less God minutes, it's less bs.
Like it's, and which is good for me anyway, because I'm honest, honestly.
I don't show up.
Well, if you interrupt me, I don't like to be interrupted.
Like I'm, I, I need to, I can't think, like, I'm not even gonna
give you good advice when you try and get me when I'm not present
and I'm focused on something else.
So it's actually really helped my mindset and I think it's made me a
better leader because now I know that when I'm talking to someone on my team,
if Mandy needs me, she's got me and I'm present and it's purposeful, and I can
tell her like, Hey, I have 10 minutes.
Is this longer than a 10 minute conversation?
Right.
And if not, then great.
Let's just tackle it.
Yeah.
And if it is great, I'm gonna give you a call when I'm driving and
then you can have me and I'm free and we can chitchat a little bit.
And, and so it's made it a lot more purposeful and a lot more present.
And I think it's better.
So I don't need to physically be there and, and I still have really
great relationships with my agents, so that was definitely a big.
A big aha.
I would say for me that, and I'm building it, I've grown, I mean, I, I hired nine
agents to my team in quarter two kitty.
So, and they don't all make it.
That didn't change doesn't change if I'm physically there and it
doesn't change if I'm no, if I'm not there physically, right?
Like, you can't, not everyone's going to wanna do the work and not achieve there.
But my standards are actually more clear.
Everything's more organized.
Yeah.
What, and is that being in that virtual environment kind of forced
you to get clear on, on the do's and don'ts and, and the standards.
What, what you allow, what you, what you tolerate, and what you
allow, you know, you know, people to do and the way the boundaries
and the way they get to treat you.
I think that when you're virtual, you are forced to be more organized, which
is what we are and what we want anyway.
So like in a virtual world, like with us in exp, like everything,
I can't just walk into.
The accounting office and hand a check in, right?
Like you can't do that like you could do at a small mom and pop.
Sure.
Here, because we're big and we're virtual, it has to be really
systematized and organized.
So I think yes it does.
It does.
Even though we were that way, our standards are, are set easier too.
'cause they can't just walk into my office or walk into Brian's office and, um.
Interrupt you the God minutes interrupt.
Interrupt.
But also I think for, for me, it also helps create a culture of resourcefulness.
And that's really what we want from our people is we want them to be resourceful.
And you know, one of the things that I've, you know, pushed everybody through kt,
this was homework day one, they had to do.
But this is what I make my team do on a, on a pretty much regular basis.
Is, is the 1 3 1, right?
What is your one, what is our big one challenge?
One big constraint.
What are three possible solutions?
What's the one that gives us the highest probability of accomplishing
the, you know, removing the one thing, the one obstacle, and, and when you,
you know, there resourcefulness.
AI that like, it's not even Google that anymore.
It's like, I don't know, ai it and Right.
And I know I ask my chat, bt like, just get on there.
I don't know.
Yeah, go if I have to.
So I used to always say, but you're right.
Now we can say ai.
I used to say, if I have to Google it, you can Google it.
So a lot of times agents will ask me questions and I would just
send 'em the search bar, right?
Like, here's the search bar.
You go do that.
That's what I would do in this instance.
Or if we have it on video already.
Yeah.
Or if I told you already, or if it's in your onboarding checklist, like we
do really want them to be resourceful because I'm not really, I'm not looking
for people who are dependent, for people who can't do it on their own.
Right.
I want people who can do it on their own.
They just need direction.
But that I can enhance them.
Yeah.
And I can help them do it better, bigger, faster together.
Not who is just like, we don't want victim people who can't
do it, who can't handle it.
I want great people.
So, and that's what I attract.
And the ones that.
Aren't resourceful, most likely aren't really gonna make it with me.
And that's okay too.
Like we all have to find our people.
So that's kind of.
I love that when, when you guys finally made the move and what I mean, was it
just, I mean, we just, we cut ties, we made the, we sold the house, we moved.
Or was it still like hanging on to the Jersey Monkey bar while we grabbed
the, the Arizona bar, or did we just both hands go, go into Arizona?
So that's not the way I do anything.
Right.
With, with like, when I left teaching, I left teaching, right.
I quit teaching.
I didn't say, oh, I'm gonna try real estate in the summer.
It's like, I'm gonna go all in and after a year, if I can't figure this out, I'm
gonna have to go back into the classroom, which I knew I was never doing again.
Yeah, when Brian decided to leave his corporate position, burn the boats and
our coo, like he burn the boats job.
Listen.
Yeah.
We know that at any time we control our own destiny.
I can go get another job, he can go get another.
If that was it, we could go back to New Jersey.
New Jersey's not going anywhere.
There's always gonna be a house.
So we burn the boats.
We're like, no, we're leaving.
And what we had decided though, John, when we left, was we
weren't going back to New Jersey.
If we hated Arizona, which I didn't think we would after our research and
all the thoughts, thought process we had and, and where we wanted to be, we
knew that we would go somewhere else.
But we, we had just made the decision that we weren't going to go to New Jersey.
I don't want my kids, and for all of you people that know me and love me
and your Jersey people, I love New Jersey, but there were, it wasn't in
alignment with what I want for my life.
I want warmth and I don't really wanna pay those taxes either.
Right.
So we had made the decision that we were leaving Jersey, so we burned it.
I love that.
Yeah.
So we, we, we go, we, you know, no, no looking back.
Only plan A, no, plan B. And, uh, you know, I mean, that takes a,
I mean, that's commitment, right?
That's a level of commitment.
That's, that's not interested.
Hey, we're not interested.
We're committed.
We're, we're, we're moving.
We're all in, we're moving, we're moving to Arizona, we're gonna make this work.
Um, when, when you guys got there, did, when did it click?
You're like, man, this is it.
This is gonna work.
So we.
Like, when did it, well, okay, so, so we're in Arizona.
We're still operating, we're still operating, uh, uh, you know, in two
different time, you know, two time zones over in, in a jersey market.
We're living in Arizona at, was there a moment where you and Brian linked
each other goes, this is gonna work.
I think now we really know that, but I think there was a
lot of changes we had to make.
So, you know what?
You wanna see the holes in your business move 2,500 miles away.
Yeah.
Right.
So that's what we did.
We're like, oh my goodness, like this doesn't work.
Or this person in this seat.
This isn't working, and, and it was working when I was next to them, but
it's not working now and I can't fix it.
Like I can't.
Yeah.
So there was all these holes that we kind of had to patch and fix
and, and continue burning down.
So yeah, that was it.
It took a couple months, so we moved here in July of last year.
By fall.
We were like, all right, like I. Things are gonna have to change.
And when I came here, I didn't know what it was gonna be like.
I knew that whatever, Brian, Brian and I can do whatever we want.
Mm-hmm.
I believe that like in my heart, like him and I can do whatever we want.
If we decided to stop selling real estate and sell solar
tomorrow, we'd make it successful.
We're not gonna do that by now.
Yeah.
You, you, you're just, you, I mean, you're hardwired because you look
how you got into the business.
Right.
I always, I always go, you know, there's certain skill sets and certain
capabilities that will travel, right?
Like, like you look at, at Tina and Kevin's story, right?
Where they moved outta Michigan into the Carolinas, they had this skillset.
Of what you had, which was reaching out to, to, to cold
people and having a conversation.
Right.
Not afraid to get on the phone.
You know what to say.
You're, you're, you're relentless.
You know, they're not gonna, you know, people are telling you to f
off, it's not gonna upset your day.
Like, you have that skillset, that skillset will travel.
And, and so, you know, for you guys being able to have that was, you know,
to me that was the capability that you could always fall back on no matter what.
What it is we're doing, we have a, a particular skill set that will travel.
I can always personally sell.
It doesn't matter what market you put me in, right?
'cause that that skillset does transfer.
And really what that skillset is, is I'm a great listener and people
will tell me their problems and then I can help with solutions.
And if that solution means selling their house, buying a house, or whatever
it is that I'm trying to help them solve, I'm gonna be able to get to
the heart of that and figure it out.
And they'll trust me.
Why?
'cause I wanna help 'em truly like I truly do.
So usually they don't tell me to f off.
Right.
They usually don't.
They may be in the beginning, but now it's rare.
Even a fisbo won't say that to me because of my approach, but my approach is really
a collaborative and and helpful approach.
So I knew that we could move here and we could make it work.
What I was surprised about, which is kind of what you mentioned with Kevin, right?
So is it Kevin, right?
Yeah.
Shoemaker.
Yeah.
Shema.
Yeah, that's what I thought.
So.
I realized I thought that I was going to have Jersey sustain.
I'm like, there's too strong of a database.
I built too strong of a business there, my reputation, my mark,
my my brand, all of that.
I'm not gonna burn that down.
That doesn't make any sense for me to do that.
I'll be able to keep that.
I'll find somebody who wants to take it and then I'll build it in Arizona, and
Arizona will become my primary market.
That was original thought.
So I came to Arizona.
I got my broker's license.
Um.
I hired a couple agents to my team.
We went and got a small office.
I took a few FSBOs, uh, expired listings, and then I realized
something similar to Kevin.
I love running it remote, like it's so fun and Jersey is crushing.
So like that was a, that was the second myth that I'm like,
I've gotta build it where I am.
Yeah.
And I need Kevin, Kevin realized that too.
It's funny.
I've got a, just you would love her.
Um, Stacy in, uh, she's in Columbus and, and, uh.
So they spend several months of every year in the Caribbean, um,
they have their little go-to spot.
They have their little, little, little getaway.
And most of the time they'll, they'll just disappear and nobody
will, nobody will know, right?
They don't want clients to know, they don't wanna see that
they're traveling and everything.
And, um, and so the question that we always go through is,
what can't I do from here?
Right?
Like, it's not, it's not all the things that we, Hey, we gotta do all this.
We just.
No, really what I, what can I not do?
Okay, well, we, we can't do that.
Okay.
We gotta have some help here.
We can't do that.
We gotta have some help here.
So like, like for you, virtually running, you know, from afar,
what have, what have you learned?
Like you have to have this, this, and this place.
These, like, what are the top three things that you have to have in place
to be able to, to run, continue to run and, and grow your business remotely?
I have to have great people that are hungry and wanna and, and want listings
and trust me in my brand because I. Although I'll still sell a little bit
in New Jersey when it's convenient and every time I go there I take a listing
because I wanna pay for my whole trip.
But like I need people who are willing to, that wanna work, that wanna sell,
that will follow the process and trust me.
And I'm lucky to have those people and I can continue to find those people.
So that's important.
Couple little really annoying things I've had to figure out are like signs.
Oh my God.
Actually the biggest nightmare of my life and Brian's life is like
figuring out signs in lock boxes.
Where are they?
Who has them?
Do we have enough?
We need more.
Who has what in their garage?
Like that's probably the biggest process.
That's annoying and it's such a stupid one, but it is.
It's like who's picking that sign up If I take a listing.
Yeah.
That's probably something like, again, I can't physically be there.
Little things that you don't think about until you're like, oh shit,
we can't go around and get that.
Who can go get that horse?
No.
Like who's our runner now?
Like, I don't even know.
Yeah.
So like that has been like.
But we had to get a process around that.
You have to have a process around every single thing because when you don't have
an office anymore, like we used to have an office, we had a big closet full of
signs, full of lock boxes full of writers.
When that was low, we ordered more.
Now you have to figure that out, like presentations, getting all those things
done so when you don't have an office and you're not physically there, it's
figuring those processes out, which we have now pretty much figured out.
But that was the biggest nightmare.
Yeah, I would say, um, and then I can't physically be there to sell, which I
tell my agents is such a value to them.
And if you show, and so I'm really honest, like there's no
participation trophies on our team.
Like it's the ones that do the work show up consistently.
Like just because you're on the team doesn't mean you
get, it's not equal, right?
Those who show up and do the work and.
Follow the process.
Well, it's, it's fair.
It's fair.
And, and I think we have to remember if fair is not equal, it's earned.
Earned Exactly right.
A fair compensation for what you do.
Right.
And, and, and how you earn it.
Yeah.
I love that.
And so there's a lot more to earn now too.
'cause it, a listing that I would've taken is now not mine
to take, I won't take it now.
Now you take it.
Now you have opportunities that I personally would've done before.
And I was doing that before as well when I was physically there, but now
it's way more so it's, it's really an opportunity for my agents to grow.
I've also created a little mentorship like process where my top agents, if
I bring a new agent on, they name them as sponsor with exp and with place,
there's a sponsorship thing as well.
So it's a way to, it's like a body system, right?
Yeah.
You know, Mary and Mandy are my two top agents.
Guys.
I'm gonna bring this new agent, I'm gonna have them name you.
Your only job is be their friend.
Make sure they come on our, come on our calls.
If you guys are going to the mortgage company to do some video content,
like invite them along with you, check in, let them shadow you.
All I really want them to do is they're busy agents from shadow you.
You're putting an offer in blind.
Copy them.
Let them see how you do it.
You're doing an open house.
Ask 'em to come.
So that's kind of really where.
That's another thing we had to figure out.
'cause I thought I needed a director of sales and I tried that.
But the problem is it's really hard to move and then put someone
else in charge, in place of you.
It, it just didn't, it, it wasn't the right timing and that didn't work.
So, um, that buddy system is working.
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah.
And it's, you know, what is the biggest threat from being virtual?
Is it the people?
Well, you know what, they're always gonna, I mean.
I don't know what the biggest threat is.
I don't know that the threats really change because your people can
always leave you, you always have to be increasing your value and you
always have to be putting them first.
You, you're always gonna have turnover.
So the biggest threat,
I don't know.
You know, I, I don't even know if I can answer that.
Yeah, yeah.
I can't personally pick it up.
I can't personally, if we're having a bad month, go take five listings.
Like I could then I could do it here, but I don't want to.
Right.
So I guess that's part partly.
Is it how important, you know, looking at, I, I think the models
are a little bit different, right?
So it just really kind of depend on, on, on what the model is.
I mean, you know, thinking about like, like Stacy and Pam and the
other agents that have successfully exited their market in building an
incredible market, um, you know.
Lifestyle from, from afar.
Um, you know, the, you know, they, they have really good boots on
ground type people for them, uh, that are more of a hourly kind of wage
earner instead of upside potential.
Is it, is it key to have a couple go-to that are kind of on the
payroll, as you would say, um, to be able to be a good resource there?
We use all va, all virtual assistant, so I don't have anybody boots on the ground.
And I think that's our superpower too.
Because it is, everything is processed and systematized.
And so if I can tell you the truth about like our, our transaction coordination
process now has never been better because it's virtual assistant and they're so
process oriented that they hold the agents accountable to the process.
And if the process isn't followed, there's no, Hey, can you just
do this for me real quick?
I'm running late till it's showing it's not how it works.
You will follow the process.
And so.
I mean, I know that most of the largest teams have directors of sales, but I think
I'm almost kind of bucking that system.
Like I don't think we need it.
I think eventually I'm gonna need to cut step out of it a little bit more.
I am really involved.
I don't know that that person needs to be physical.
Yeah, that person might need to just be virtual as well.
I kind of like it that way, and it empowers the agents to be more
self-sufficient, but at the same time, listen, I'm not gonna sugarcoat this.
We offer a ton of leads.
And a ton of opportunities and a large database and great marketing in
every system you could ever imagine that you couldn't do on your own.
Yeah, I was about to say, what's the value proposition that, you know, to
keep an agent plugged in and engaged?
Um, I think it's really always like leadership leads and learning, right?
So like, I kind of look at it that way.
So it's like the, the leadership there, I'm gonna lead you.
I'll show you how to do it.
It's how I did it, like.
How hard would it be?
How hard would it be if you didn't have the leads?
Right?
Because I see so many agents that say they want to, you know, build a, build a team,
build, build something, and I'm like, okay, well what's the value proposition?
Well, it's the coaching and the support is the training.
And it's like, okay, well I can give 'em some leadership and some guidance.
Okay, but so what does the split structure have to look like?
What, what, what, what are they willing to pay for for that?
And I, it's, it's hard, right?
It's real, real hard.
I mean, we learned that lesson with, with our very dear friend, you
know, gene, and, you know, you know, gene was on that model no leads.
And when the market shifted and market got real hard, those people, like, they
just, they kind of, they kind of dry up.
So how, I mean, how critical is it if you are trying to build.
Some type of of team structure organization.
Is it to provide opportunities?
I think listen, we can, we can say all we want people join you.
They join your value, your coaching.
At the end of the day, we're all looking for leverage and leads are leverage.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
They're leverage for agents.
Right.
You, you still have to lead generate, you're still gonna do the open houses and
if you can do, we actually have a lead gen wheel that we show that it's like if you
can do open houses, you can reach out to your sphere and you can use, and you can.
Prospect, we're gonna give you, if you can get half of the business
on this side of the sphere, and we can give you the other half.
Now, what I've found is we're really giving them 75% from our team
generated, but their leverage for me.
So we can sit here all day and say they join my coaching.
And if your value proposition as a leader is big enough that people will
join you for that, they're not gonna, they're gonna pay you what that's worth.
Right?
And so.
My agents make a little more and they bring the lead in on their own than
they do if I give it to them directly.
They need leads, they need opportunities, and I don't think
we can pretend that that's not.
But that's not the truth.
And I think I, I would agree you, I mean, you, you know me, man.
I, you know, I, I I defaulted into this industry, right.
You know, taking a, taking a position as before it was an integrator.
I mean, that's the position I, I took.
'cause I already walked into a successful organization by standards and.
2004. It was one of the top organizations on the planet.
And you know, just the amount of market share that we were able to
obtain in, in transaction count.
But it was, it was a shit show.
Right.
And being able to, you know, uh, put, you know, put the, put the train on
the tracks and keep the guardrails up i's like, I able to put the bumpers up.
I mean, that's, that's the best way to describe what the kinder
organization was before me.
It was, it was like.
Um, you know, a 5-year-old bowling without, without the bumpers.
And, and so being able to put the, the bumper rails up.
But we had leads, like we dominated with leads.
Like nobody generated more leads than we did.
So, like, I, like day one, I understood the importance of
leads and what agents value.
And you know, I hear, you know, hey, they, they value support.
They value training.
They value leadership.
I think they value opportunity more than anything.
You know, I think it's the whole package, right?
At the end of the day, it's the whole package.
So there has to be, I don't think if your value proposition is only leads, if your
value proposition is only leads and there are teams that way, you're gonna see a lot
of turnover, turnover, turnover, turnover.
Because they're not with you for you.
They're with you for leads, and when they can figure out how to generate their own.
Or they find another opportunity.
They have no loyalty, right?
They're just gonna move somewhere else.
Because if they join you for leads, they'll leave you for more leads or more
money Doesn't have, there has to be more.
I, I love you, I love your three-pronged, three three-pronged approach.
Right?
You know, it's, it's about what?
What'd you say?
Leadership listings learning, right?
You gotta teach 'em.
You gotta lead 'em.
You gotta teach 'em, and you gotta give 'em opportunity.
Yeah.
And I think that if you do that and then there has to be, there has to be a growth.
So that's where the opportunities come in.
It's not just leads.
It's what, how can you become a mentor?
How can I show you how to, that's opportunity, right?
It's opportunity to grow.
It's opportunity to give back.
I love that.
Right.
You know, the best that I've, that I've seen.
Create a culture of, of leadership and winning and
accountability is, is Sloan right?
And I've told you this, like, I, I mean, I shared it with you.
We were working together.
I remember to this day and, and him and I talk about it all the time,
you know, you, you, you have those moments where it's like, wow, right.
And I got to see it play out and where his organization is today compared
at that time, at the end of 20 when he said, you know, the daily wins.
And I'm like, dude, the down the, the ripple effect of that decision
because it forces you to, you know, get focused and commit and then be
accountable and win and cultivates.
Leadership cultivates accountability, right?
I think is, is also the big component there.
But that's like you, you have a standard, I have to hold you accountable.
If you want these, if you want these leads and these
opportunities, you gotta perform.
Right.
You have to, and you have to follow the process.
And the thing is, is that it's, I don't have, like, you have to sell
two houses a month on my team, or you've got a prospect from nine to 11.
I've tried all the models, by the way, and you've gotta find
the one that feels good for you.
'cause I remember in the beginning your style career, it was,
you don't get to be creative.
This is the model, follow it.
And so I'm like, okay, that's what I have to do.
And so I tried and tried and tried and it wasn't, it didn't feel right to me.
So now I'm like.
Who the hell created the model and why did they get to tell me what to do?
Like, right.
Like, I don't know why I was, you know, I was so gullible.
I felt like I had to do it that way.
So now it's like, listen, you pick your, if you wanna sell, as long
as you're good for my culture, if you wanna sell 10 houses this
year, let's get a plan around that.
Right?
And you can do that.
If you wanna sell 40, you absolutely can.
Let's get a plan around that.
Your plans are gonna look very different.
Sure.
But when you're not showing up, either one of you like, expect me to reach out
and be like, Hey, I thought the goal was.
You know, I wanted to, that was 40 credit.
I wanted to buy the house and this, these were what the things you
told me to do, did that change?
How, I love that you said that because when, when somebody says
that they wanna sell X number of houses, I'm like, how come?
Like, why w what, what is this for?
Right.
Th this is only a vehicle to achieve bigger goals and, and freedom.
How come?
Like, and, and so what will that do for your life?
So good.
Yeah.
What, what's that gonna do for your life?
And then, and if you don't do that.
What's your life gonna look like?
And we see the same thing with sellers, the same thing with buyers.
It's what's the motivation and what's the plan B?
Right?
What's So if I know those two things, if I know you're motivated to sell
your house because you wanna transfer to Florida because you wanna be in
the warm weather, well, if I know that that's the importance and you wanna do
it by September, well what's the plan if we're, if we're listed to listed
at 600,000 and we're not selling.
What's your plan B?
Are you gonna stay there?
Right.
Are you gonna rent it out?
Mm-hmm.
Are you, what's your plan B?
Okay.
The plan is still go to Florida.
All right, well this isn't working, so we gotta figure out a new process.
Right.
And it's the same thing with the agents.
So what is the goal?
And if we don't hit it that way, what's our, what's, what's our life look like?
Yeah.
What does that look like?
So you just have to do it with your eyes open.
You decide not to show up, you decide not to follow the process.
Well, you're probably gonna go back to working at Target if that's
where you were before, right?
And, and it's all about right.
So I, I loved connecting the dots with, you know, I introduced
you to the four C's, right?
It's commitment, you know, courage, capabilities.
You know, confidence, the four Cs to, to confidence and the, when I, when I hear
you talking about that, right, it's like, you know, it's like we always say like,
who do you have to become in order to, to achieve the goals that you wanna achieve?
And you have to remember.
Your, your, your goals are also in alignment to your capabilities.
So if, if you're not resourceful enough or you're, you're not enough
skilled in, in a certain aspect of the key skills that we all must
possess to achieve certain outcomes, then it's never gonna happen, right?
So you gotta make sure that your, your goals and your capabilities are, are in
alignment, or you're continuing to grow the capabilities to achieve your goals.
Um, it's, it's.
It's really fascinating.
So, and I think the capabilities part is really important.
I think we forget about that too, is that not everybody's made to do this.
Correct.
And that's okay.
Like, I have that conversation with people, like, some people like figure out,
like I'm a big personality profile person.
Like I know all of my profiles, they're all on chat, pt, I don't know if you
put them in there yet, but like, chat, BT knows me better than my husband, but
like it, like know what your strengths are and what you should be doing.
I know that I should not be.
Like managing the CM in the day-to-day.
Yeah.
In fact, if you go in and ask Chad GPT, I did it once.
I'm like, should I be an accountant?
He's like, absolutely.
You should be in a, because Chatt PT is still very positive.
You should be an accountant.
Yeah.
It's a confirmation bias.
Yeah.
And that's the greatest idea.
Then you should be an accountant, but you really shouldn't do anything with numbers.
I'm like, okay, great.
So like, you should do what you should do.
And so capability is a big part and you also can't, you can't teach somebody.
Like
the natural ability to connect and to sell.
Now you can get better the more you try.
The reps will come in, but you're always gonna be outside of your comfort zone.
So go find your comfort zone and go excel there.
Like be in your in, in your, what's the word I'm looking for?
Just be in your zone.
Be in zone.
Be in your zone, in your zone 80% of the time, and just figure out what that is.
Don't try and be someone you're not.
Right.
Yeah.
Like Brian hates selling.
He tried it.
He did it.
That's what his director of ops does.
He's outta that line.
Yeah.
I don't wanna do that.
Doesn't need be in there.
He doesn't need be in there.
Yeah.
And, and it, it gets back into, you know, what does, what does Martel talk about?
It's the productivity quadrant.
Right?
Do, do what gives you energy that you're the best at to move the business forward.
It's gonna make you the most amount of money.
Do the thing that makes you the most amount of money.
That gives you energy.
Not robs you of it, it's super key.
So, and that's what agents do.
So when we pay, we take a lot of that off their plate.
So if we take off all the backend stuff, I'm like, all I really want you
to do is what you should be good at.
If you wanna be an agent, which is find people, connect with them and
service 'em, and then we're going to take on all that backend stuff.
And you're gonna love your life and you're gonna live a great life and
you're gonna have a high dollar per hour.
Um, no, I love, I love that.
And, you know, 1, 1, 1 thing that I, I, I'm curious about, because you know,
me, I, I'm, I'm a big vision guy, right?
Without, without a vision, the village will perish.
You've gotta create a massive enough vision that the people want to come and
be a part because they believe they can accomplish their goals and their dreams
by being a part of the vision and, and what you're trying to accomplish.
And when you have a vision, then you look for what are all the ways to get there.
Right, and, and so like even for us, when we were making the move over to, we ended
up making the move over to exp in in 2017, but going into, coming out of 2015,
going into 2016, we were like, okay, the.
Traditional way, the way that we built Lawton is not the way we can build Texas.
So what, what do people want?
What is, what is our value proposition and how can we get a bigger piece of the pie?
And that's where we latched on to partner.
And we were partnering with agents and market service areas.
Our, our value promise was four new listings per, per month
in your market service area.
And then, you know all the ways.
But we had a goal, right?
We had, we had a big, big, hairy, audacious goal.
We had a. You know, thing that we're like, damn, okay, well we can get 22.
Let's restructure DFW.
Maybe we can get 24.
We can get 26 in DFW.
Then we're gonna have to go into other markets.
And our, and our goal was 2000.
Right?
And when Al, you know, had.
The Christmas in, in July with his top two agents leaving him and, you know,
600,000 in GCI going out the door.
He had to figure out what the hell am I gonna do?
Because he was out of production, right?
He had the call center, he was calling for che, he was doing, you know,
all the stuff with the call center.
And he had to go, he, he was gonna have to go back into
production to save the STA group.
And that's when, you know.
He was now open and Cliff got him with, you know, the partner with me video.
But I remember early on in, in 2016 seeing the model and I watched maybe
10 minutes of it, 12 minutes of it.
Um, because I was so latched on to what it is that we're doing.
But we know better just through all the mental models and the thinking
and it's like, what are all the ways?
Is this the best way?
The goal is still the goal, is that the best way to get there?
And then that let us go in of our ego of, of prideful, of what we were building.
An independent model that was partnering with agents.
Um, we had just partnered with, with Tracy and Jason in Atlanta.
And like, it was just everything that was, was going in that, and we just blew it up.
Like we blew it all up because we found a better way to get us to the goal.
And so, so for you just.
KW exp Real back to K, back to exp, um, you know, partnering with place,
like for you, what, what is, what is that filter that you and Brian are
running through to make sure that you've got the best support, best platform
for you guys to achieve your goals?
You know, it's really hard 'cause I think you, you mature a lot along
the way and with each decision, um.
You do what you do, what you think is best until you know
better, and then you do better.
Right?
It's my, one of my favorite quotes from Maya Angelou.
And so I think about that a lot.
So when I left kw, I love kw.
I was happy there.
I felt like I had hit a ceiling and I knew that there was more
and there was a better way.
And it's still a great company and people are still there
now, and that needs for them.
But for me, I was like, there's, there's something better.
There's something bigger, there's something newer that
I should, should latch onto.
And so I did all the research I could do and I'm like, I think this is it.
And at the same time, I didn't totally understand what I was building.
I was still heavily in production.
I still wanted to build a team.
And I remember talking to Jay early on too, where he was like
talking to me about recruiting and building a downline and all of that.
I'm like, listen, I just wanna sell, like, just show me how
to sell 500 houses a year.
And, um, I didn't really understand what I was trying to build.
And even still, I think it gets blurry sometimes, but then
when things don't feel right, I tend to.
Know that I need to change.
So like when I moved, then I thought, okay, that was great,
until it wasn't anymore.
I made a change.
That wasn't the right decision I made.
I think that when the market changed, and I'm gonna be really
vulnerable on this podcast, I will be.
I the market changed.
I had built something really big for the sake of being big because
I thought I needed to sell 500 homes a year or whatever it was.
There wasn't really a good staple reason around it, except for.
How do I help more people become more visible, speak to more people?
Like I knew I wanted to be in my strength zone, but I didn't
really have a good reason.
And so then when it all changed, I was just kind of like.
Oh, I did this all wrong, like burn it.
And sometimes I can be like that.
I'm like, just burn it down.
Like this was wrong.
Forget it.
Like don't even, I don't need the studs.
Burn it all down.
We'll start all over.
Um, now I think after doing that, leaving X exp, which I loved X exp, I really did.
I, there were some challenges, and I don't wanna talk about brokerages
too much, but there were some challenges there that exp fixed.
So I actually am really in alignment with exp for that reason, because they saw it.
Yeah.
Right.
They changed leadership.
They changed the structure a little bit.
'cause they're like, wait, we built this, it's great.
It's big.
But now the size that it is, we've gotta sustainability make changes.
Yep.
And they lost me for a reason that they hadn't fixed yet.
And they fixed it and they, and I'm like, now it really is the best.
Yeah, right now it really is.
You go, you go back to a, a couple things there, right?
And it, you know, we talk about vision and, and part of that, that vision
is also values, which are standards.
And the one that really got me right, that, that still has
me with exp is sustainability.
And.
When you make decisions through decision making filters, which are core
values, are decision making filters and everything runs through agent first.
Everything runs through, you know, being agile, but also sustainable.
Like, we're not making this unless it's sustainable for the long haul.
Like, you know, first to market, you know, market.
We created this space, we created, you know, the, the virtual.
You know, place, we dominate it.
We do need a real, we do need the lpt.
They, because listen, exp wouldn't have changed if, if,
if real didn't come along right?
Exp wouldn't have changed if LPT didn't come along, like they
wouldn't make the adjustments.
You need the competition to, to, to make sure that you're still pressure testing
and making it the best that it can be.
And, and so for me it's always about sustainability.
Like if you're going to do this for the long haul, unless
you're building the cell.
Which exp was never designed build to sell.
It was designed to build for forever.
And you gotta have the values in, in, in place for that to be true.
And a big part of it is culture, right?
Yeah.
So culture is really super important to me.
It's probably one of the most important things to me, is culture
and alignment and, and people.
And so if that feels off.
That will off.
It would be hard for me to stay anywhere or do anything if I don't
fully believe in it with my whole self.
Like I have to fully believe, I love that.
Believe in what we're building.
Yeah.
And so I stopped for, for a minute.
I wasn't really believing in what we were building 'cause it
felt very competitive inside.
So let's just be real.
I felt really competitive inside X exp. I'm like, I feel
like it doesn't feel good.
This feels gross to me some way.
In some ways, yeah.
And although I loved all you guys, it just didn't feel like what I wanted to build.
I wasn't bleeding in it anymore.
And so I went somewhere else that had kind of tried to solve that problem.
'cause I wasn't the only one who was feeling that, except when
they tried to solve the problem.
They tried to solve it so much that it took all the culture away.
Yeah.
And then I felt like I didn't really have a lot of culture.
And then exp is like, wait a minute.
We did kind of feel like a bunch of different sports teams
competing against each other.
How do we fix that?
Yeah.
And so they did.
And now it doesn't feel that way anymore.
It doesn't, it feels like we can all just collaborate.
We can all connect with each other.
And that was a big part and, and seeing that.
Yes.
When was so impressive from the inside, seeing it, right, being able to, to be
a part of it from the inside, seeing it, instead of just being like, Hey,
we're number one, we're the best, and letting the ego continue on that path.
They were like, wait a minute, this other company is getting some traction.
What are they doing?
How are they taking some of our best people?
Yeah.
And so E saw that and fixed it.
And that makes me think, this is my home.
Like this is where, this is where I should be.
I was happiest here and, and now they've made it better.
And I also have the trust that if there's something broken
again, they're gonna fix it.
Mm-hmm.
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent and it's just a matter of time, right?
It's just growing pains.
There's stuff on the, on the roadmap, and I promise you, if it's an,
if it's an issue you're having, I promise you, if it's an issue that
others are having, and I promise you that it's, it's making noise.
And, and I think this is also important, right?
When you, when you understand leadership and leadership's, um, intent, right?
It's kind of commander's intent with the military, what's the leader?
What's leaders and leadership intent?
And understanding a guy like Leo who is built for, um,
he's a wartime general, right?
I'm not saying Glen's not, but Glen's more of a peacetime general
and just incredible, right.
You know, really founder really being able to see around
corner, see him to the future.
But when you, when you bring a guy in like Leo, and you understand Leo hates noise.
Hates noise.
He will make noise go away.
And I promise you, if there's an issue that's causing noise in your
life with with the situation, I promise you others are having it.
And I promise you it's just a period of time before that noise goes away.
And that's just getting you What's funny, I actually talked to Leo prior to our call
about something that was a little noisy.
So I actually had a little challenge and like the CEO of our company called me.
Yeah.
Actually right now I have Amy Weaver calling me.
Yeah.
Who is another big, like, she's calling my phone right now.
Like they, this is the leadership we have.
Yeah.
Like that's pretty, that's impressive.
Impressive and amazing.
And I'm not anybody special.
I'm special.
I'm, we're all special.
But I don't mean they would do that for anybody.
Anybody in the entire company.
Anybody who having an issue or who has someone they're bringing over or has
something going on, they would do that.
And so anybody that.
Speaks volumes because they care.
I think they truly do actually.
They actually care.
They do care.
And that's a big part.
And that's something that you have to be figure out how to
show in a remote way, right?
Mm-hmm.
Because we're, we are a cloud-based brokerage.
Mm-hmm.
How can we have such strong culture in a cloud-based brokerage
places also a cloud-based technology company, like mm-hmm.
We have so much culture, we all love each other.
Yeah.
It's not proximity.
You don't have to be physically.
That's what I got to learn so much.
And if I can get any message, like your physical proximity, like if you have to be
there in person, you are a control freak.
You don't need to be there in person.
Yeah.
Like you just, yeah.
Like I love it.
Um, so I'm pretty excited about all of it.
As you should be.
Yeah.
So it's cool.
I appreciate you.
Thank you for carving out the time jumping in here.
Uh, it's, uh, always great connecting with you and, uh, you
know, just excited that you guys are back and, uh, excited that, uh.
You and you and Brian are, and, and you know what's, even, what's even cooler
is, you know, the life that you're able to create and design, you know, for
your family, for the kiddos and the experiences that they're able to have.
And it's, uh, it's awesome.
Absolutely.
And so the one thing I'm gonna tell you, one last thing about Arizona,
and I'm gonna show you my outside.
So I did not wanna live in the brown and the dirt.
And that's the one thing I'm like, I don't know that I can go from the garden
state to like living in sand and cactuses.
Like I just die.
I still can't say that, but we found a spot in Arizona like, look
like I don't, I live like that.
Can you see that?
Yeah.
I love it.
I would say, are you in Florida?
Like, alright, where is the breath water?
I want the, I want the 300 days of sun.
That's what I say.
Are you in Florida looking at, I can't look at like a concrete wall.
Yeah.
You just design it, right?
Like I knew that.
I knew that.
I wouldn't feel happy doing that.
I was also afraid of snakes.
There's not snakes in the water.
So anyway.
It's, it's really, really fun.
And if this is ever not the right fit, we can change.
Have you gone through the vivid vision exercise yet?
So, no.
It, it, it's, it's pretty much like the perfect day scenario, but you do
it for your business and what, you know, just close your eyes and just,
just vision vividly every detail.
Right.
And you've done it, you've done a lot of that.
Right?
It's like you like what you just talked about.
Hey, we can live and work from here.
Here, here's, here's hard nose, right?
I can't look at concrete.
I can't look at dirt.
I can't be around snakes.
I can't live around the, the cactus.
Like, no.
Non-negotiable.
Vividly.
But, but vividly.
What do you see?
Right?
And you probably, a lot of it has come to, come to be just from what you vision
and it's, it's just like perfect day.
The perfect day exercise.
But for, for your business, vi vivid the vivid vision exercise.
Ah, I'm gonna, is it like a. Yeah.
Thing like, do I Google it or chat you?
You can, you can.
There is, uh, there's a book around it, um, that, that talks about it,
it doesn't give you the how to, it's.