1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,000 Collin Stewart: Welcome back to the Predictable revenue. Podcast I'm your host, Colin Stewart. And today I'm joined by Jason Fletcher. He's the founder and CEO over@devpipeline.com. And we're going to talk product market fit before we jump in. This episode is brought to you by predictable revenues. Founder coaching program founders. Let's be real 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:10,000 134 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:15,000 Collin Stewart: scaling. A company is tough. You're juggling product revenue hiring a million other things. But what if you had a proven framework and expert guidance to help you navigate the chaos. That's where our founder coaching program comes in. Whether you're trying to find your 1st customers or fine tune. Your go to market. We're here to help you build a business that scales well, predictably. 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:20,000 135 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:25,000 Collin Stewart: Jason. Welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us. 6 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:30,000 136 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:35,000 Jason Fletcher: Hey? Thanks, Colin! Happy to be here. 8 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:40,000 137 9 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:45,000 Collin Stewart: Happy to have you. I'm curious. I'd love to dive in to Dev Pipeline. Talk to me about where the idea came from. 10 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:50,000 138 11 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:55,000 Jason Fletcher: Yeah, that's 12 00:00:55,000 --> 00:01:00,000 139 13 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:05,000 Jason Fletcher: kind of a long time coming. Actually, I it started really as a kind of a personal response to what I saw as a broken system. 14 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:10,000 140 15 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:15,000 Jason Fletcher: I've been doing software development since the eighties 16 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:20,000 141 17 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:25,000 Jason Fletcher: when we got the commodore 64 for Christmas, and I and I just fell in love with computers. I fell in love with development, and as my schooling and career progressed throughout my life, I started to kind of move into positions of hiring developers and and training developers. 18 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:30,000 142 19 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:35,000 Jason Fletcher: And I, I'm a college graduate, 1st generation college graduate from my family. And I don't 20 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:40,000 143 21 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:45,000 Jason Fletcher: wanna sound like, I'm picking on the college system because I believe it has a place, and I believe that it serves a purpose. But I saw that there were people coming out of college that lacked experience. I saw companies struggling to hire people that that, you know were qualified companies don't have the capabilities really to to Upskill and to train their own people. 22 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:50,000 144 23 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:55,000 Jason Fletcher: And so I thought, There's there's got to be a better way to do this. I saw that there were companies kind of sprouting up like boot camps. Online trainings, things like that where they're trying to solve the problem. But they're doing it at almost a get rich, quick kind of methodology and 12 weeks for a boot camp just wasn't enough time to really learn what they were supposed to learn. So 24 00:01:55,000 --> 00:02:00,000 145 25 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:05,000 Jason Fletcher: with this, this gap of 26 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:10,000 146 27 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:15,000 Jason Fletcher: over a million jobs being unfilled in the tech sector every year, and all the colleges and training programs only accounting for about 60,000 graduates every year we were never gonna fill that. So I thought, how how do we get people qualified to be software developers and help provide that talent to companies. And so. 28 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:20,000 147 29 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:25,000 Jason Fletcher: as companies were struggling to hire and people couldn't break in, I said, Well, I know software development. I know training. How about if we 30 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:30,000 148 31 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:35,000 Jason Fletcher: blend the 2? And we start our own apprenticeship. 32 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:40,000 149 33 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:45,000 Jason Fletcher: And you know, it really is 34 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:50,000 150 35 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:55,000 Jason Fletcher: kind of a centuries old model that we're applying to software development. 36 00:02:55,000 --> 00:03:00,000 151 37 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:05,000 Jason Fletcher: And and so that's where that's where really the idea of Dev pipeline came from. 38 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:10,000 152 39 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:15,000 Collin Stewart: So you had this idea. How do you go about validating it and testing it like what? What came between 1st customer and decision to do something about the gap you saw in the market. 40 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:20,000 153 41 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:25,000 Jason Fletcher: Yeah, the validation was actually just getting in and doing it. 42 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:30,000 154 43 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:35,000 Jason Fletcher: We hire. I hired 44 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:40,000 155 45 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:45,000 Jason Fletcher: 3 boot camp graduates. They weren't qualified to get jobs. They they had no confidence. They could get a job. So I said, Okay, I'll just hire them. We'll go out and find projects to work on. 46 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:50,000 156 47 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:55,000 Jason Fletcher: and that turned into 6 developers, and then it turned into 8 developers. And by that point we were validating with higher education. We formed a partnership with a college down at Ephram, Utah, called Snow College, and we started to develop our own curriculum at that point. 48 00:03:55,000 --> 00:04:00,000 157 49 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:05,000 Jason Fletcher: instead of relying on their training from before we were going to provide that training as well as the on the job training that apprenticeship model. And so our validation really came just by starting. 50 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:10,000 158 51 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:15,000 Jason Fletcher: And I thought, Hey, I've got the resources to start it, and we've got people who need it. Let's just go and figure it out as we go, and that really has come from. You know that that 52 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:20,000 159 53 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:25,000 Jason Fletcher: that method has worked out for us because we've seen 54 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:30,000 160 55 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:35,000 Jason Fletcher: more and more developers come or wanting to be developers, people who 56 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:40,000 161 57 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:45,000 Jason Fletcher: are not employed, people who are underemployed, people who've always wanted to get into tech, or it's relatively new for them. And we have companies that are in dire need of developers and companies that are in dire need of development services. And so as we've 58 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:50,000 162 59 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:55,000 Jason Fletcher: as we've just gone forward, we've. It's almost as if 60 00:04:55,000 --> 00:05:00,000 163 61 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:05,000 Jason Fletcher: both sides have come out of the woodworks for us. And we're the number one. In fact, for a while we're the only software development full stack apprenticeship in Utah. 62 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:10,000 164 63 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:15,000 Jason Fletcher: and we have customers outside of the State of Utah. We have customers in the State of Utah, and as we grew 64 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:20,000 165 65 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:25,000 Jason Fletcher: we actually found a lot of success in the rural communities. So there's a community out East in Utah called vernal, and primarily vernal, is 66 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:30,000 166 67 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:35,000 Jason Fletcher: oil and gas, and so what you see is when oil and gas is doing well. Vernal's got 20,000 people in town 68 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:40,000 167 69 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:45,000 Jason Fletcher: when vernal, when oil and gas is down. There's about 10,000 people in town, and businesses are struggling because it's not just the oil and gas businesses now that are struggling, it's the restaurants. It's the supermarkets. It's the hardware stores. Everybody is struggling. And so they've always been looking for ways to diversify their economy. So as we've brought this program to Vernal. They embraced it wholeheartedly. 70 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:50,000 168 71 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:55,000 Jason Fletcher: The county has scholarship money for individuals who live in the county who want to take the program, and the companies there are just hungry for local talent. So it's worked out really well for us. 72 00:05:55,000 --> 00:06:00,000 169 73 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:05,000 Collin Stewart: You'll have to forgive me. Because when I 1st looked at your website, I saw Dev pipeline. 74 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:10,000 170 75 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:15,000 Collin Stewart: I assumed he was referring to software pipeline. And then my brain went, okay, another dev shop. But this sounds. It does sound like you do some of that outsource development. But the apprenticeship program really sounds unique. Help me understand specifically what that looks like. Just because I feel like it'll help add some more color to the rest of what we're going to talk about. 76 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:20,000 171 77 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:25,000 Jason Fletcher: Yeah, absolutely. The the name Dev pipeline refers to developer pipeline. So we are a pipeline for software developers. 78 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:30,000 172 79 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:35,000 Jason Fletcher: The the work that we do for clients is is part of the formula, but the primary goal of our company is to help build careers. So we work primarily with department of workforce services vocational rehab. We work with apprenticeship Utah. And there's groups here in Utah that government groups that work with what they call Utah at risk youth. 80 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:40,000 173 81 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:45,000 Jason Fletcher: I like California's term. They call them opportunity youth. 82 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:50,000 174 83 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:55,000 Jason Fletcher: And so we work with these groups to find those who are maybe disenfranchised find immigrants find people who are underemployed or unemployed. 84 00:06:55,000 --> 00:07:00,000 175 85 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:05,000 Jason Fletcher: whose opportunities just don't exist. And so our primary focus is on the training and the apprenticeship. And sometimes that apprenticeship is with us. We hire them. They work on client work, they work on projects that we're building. And sometimes it's they're hired by our employer partners. So the goal really is. 86 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:10,000 176 87 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:15,000 Jason Fletcher: can we take someone who doesn't have a job in tech and maybe doesn't have those skills and help them build that career? 88 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:20,000 177 89 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:25,000 Jason Fletcher: And if if you kind of sum it up in. In one story I would say there was a there was a lady. Her name was Silvana. She was a Bulgarian immigrant came to the United States she had kids, and she was got the only job she could get which was a 90 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:30,000 178 91 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:35,000 Jason Fletcher: medical tech at a hospital. 92 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:40,000 179 93 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:45,000 Jason Fletcher: She hated it she? She was working long hours low pay. She really didn't like it, but she was doing it because she was providing for her family. 94 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:50,000 180 95 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:55,000 Collin Stewart: She decided she wanted to do more. She wanted to to do. 96 00:07:55,000 --> 00:08:00,000 181 97 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:05,000 Jason Fletcher: She wanted to have a career and something that was exciting to her, and software development was exciting to her. So we found out about her story, and how much she was putting in for her family. She literally was just 98 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:10,000 182 99 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:15,000 Jason Fletcher: all day, every day with raising her kids, going to work long hours and burning the candle at both ends, and we ended up scholarshipping her entirely, so she didn't have to pay anything for the program. 100 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:20,000 183 101 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:25,000 Jason Fletcher: I remember I was teaching the coding foundations course, and 102 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:30,000 184 103 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:35,000 Jason Fletcher: she showed up to class one morning, and she was just in tears. And this was probably 3 weeks into the program, and I thought, Oh, no. 104 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:40,000 185 105 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:45,000 Jason Fletcher: she's not gonna make it. She was explaining how she was just up all night. She was trying to get this to work, couldn't get it to work, and it was frustrating for her, especially when she's already low on sleep. And 106 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:50,000 186 107 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:55,000 Jason Fletcher: and 108 00:08:55,000 --> 00:09:00,000 187 109 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:05,000 Jason Fletcher: I remember she fought through it, and she was doing better by the time the program was over. It's a 45 week program. 110 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:10,000 188 111 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:15,000 Jason Fletcher: and by the time the program was 2 weeks from ending. She called me, and she said, I want you to know. I just got a job offer. 112 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:20,000 189 113 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:25,000 Jason Fletcher: and I said, Tell me about it. 114 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:30,000 190 115 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:35,000 Jason Fletcher: she said, well, I thought, I'll just start applying. So she applied to Lee County, Florida, which is where she lives 116 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:40,000 191 117 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:45,000 Jason Fletcher: to be a junior software developer. They were gonna pay between 45 and $55,000, she thought. I'll just shoot for the moon and go for 50. 118 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:50,000 192 119 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:55,000 Jason Fletcher: And 120 00:09:55,000 --> 00:10:00,000 193 121 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:05,000 Jason Fletcher: they interviewed her, and then they interviewed her with some senior developers, and they came back, and they were so impressed with her they offered her a better position at 65,000 a year, and 122 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:10,000 194 123 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:15,000 Jason Fletcher: that just made my heart sing. That's that's the whole reason we do this. And you know, my favorite quote from her was, before dev pipeline. 124 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:20,000 195 125 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:25,000 Jason Fletcher: We rented a house. Now we own our home, and I drive a Tesla. That was. That was her direct quote, and I thought, oh, that's that's great! What a wonderful lady! And now she's gone on to get a degree in machine learning. And she's working in AI. 126 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:30,000 196 127 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:35,000 Jason Fletcher: And so that's really, why we why we do what we do. 128 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:40,000 197 129 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:45,000 Collin Stewart: I'm, and I normally don't go deep on products. I'm just annoyingly curious. And I can't stop asking questions. Hence, why a podcast is a fit for me, because otherwise I just annoy everybody else around me. And so they're like, channel the questions here. It's a 45 week program. Is that full time, part time in class, not in class, or like virtual. 130 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:50,000 198 131 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:55,000 Jason Fletcher: So yeah, we have the, we have a 3 semester program, 15 weeks each semester. The 1st 15 weeks is 4 HA day, 5 days a week. So it's part time 132 00:10:55,000 --> 00:11:00,000 199 133 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:05,000 Jason Fletcher: so some people will come in. They've got a job. They're they're working in a full time job or a part time job, or they're all in on this when they graduate from that 1st 15 week course, then they qualify for the apprenticeship, and either us or one of our one of our employer partners will hire them, and then they'll be in a in a half time, so they'll be 4 HA day in class, 4 HA day at the job 134 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:10,000 200 135 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:15,000 Jason Fletcher: and by the 3rd certificate in. So that's the front end web development course, the back End web development course. At this point they're about 136 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:20,000 201 137 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:25,000 Jason Fletcher: 75% of their time is working. 138 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:30,000 202 139 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:35,000 Jason Fletcher: So they it really is kind of the shift towards the practical learning on the job, the application of what they were learning in class. 140 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:40,000 203 141 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:45,000 Collin Stewart: Interesting. 142 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:50,000 204 143 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:55,000 Collin Stewart: I've a friend of mine started a coding boot camp, and they do the 12 week thing. I think they've got a pretty great program. It is full time. It is 12 weeks. 144 00:11:55,000 --> 00:12:00,000 205 145 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:05,000 Collin Stewart: There's only so much you can learn. Mid 12 weeks. 146 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:10,000 206 147 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:15,000 Jason Fletcher: Yeah, you're absolutely right. If you look at it. You think I've got to learn enough to be successful in a career in 12 weeks. And that's just really hard. There are individuals who are very successful going through boot camps. We find that those same people, many of those same people would probably also be successful doing it on their own. 148 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:20,000 207 149 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:25,000 Jason Fletcher: because it really does take a commitment 150 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:30,000 208 151 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:35,000 Jason Fletcher: to it to be successful at anything in software development, and those who are taking the boot camps and being successful. Those are the ones that are really driven. Those are the ones that are doing things above and beyond what the program requires. And you know that it's they're getting a love for it in the boot camp. And then they're teaching themselves. They're going on, and they're learning more. And our our motto here at Dev Pipeline is, own your journey. 152 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:40,000 209 153 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:45,000 Jason Fletcher: you know. We we try to provide everything they need to be successful from a curriculum perspective, from the experience, from mentorship, from opportunities and connections with industry players. But if they're not owning their journey, we can't force success on them. 154 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:50,000 210 155 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:55,000 Collin Stewart: It definitely is one of those things that you have to opt in. You have to. You really have to want to do it, and you have to put the time in and commit. I've been kind of on the verge of like I've done coding classes. I've done some part fractions of boot camps. I've done self-guided things throughout the years, and I've never. I've never had 3 months where all I could do is code, and so I've never made it quite over that hump. I use Windsurf and I can do some damage and write some absolutely horrific code. 156 00:12:55,000 --> 00:13:00,000 211 157 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:05,000 Collin Stewart: Yeah, but 158 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:10,000 212 159 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:15,000 Collin Stewart: it does the thing. So I'm like, maybe I don't have to get over the hump. I'm sure. 160 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:20,000 213 161 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:25,000 Jason Fletcher: AI is making things a lot easier, too. So you're you're, you know. Maybe someday 162 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:30,000 214 163 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:35,000 Jason Fletcher: I do kind of feel like a caveman that stumbled across the Internet. You know. 164 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:40,000 215 165 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:45,000 Collin Stewart: So I did want to. I did want to ask the you started validating it. You validate it by just doing it, which I love, I mean as a services business. That's kind of the model. 166 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:50,000 216 167 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:55,000 Collin Stewart: Where did your 1st customers come from? Were you doing like? Were you doing services before and thought, Hey, this is the model. Let's try it out, or you just kind of went for it. 168 00:13:55,000 --> 00:14:00,000 217 169 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:05,000 Jason Fletcher: No, we it. We just kind of went for it. And I said, You know, we'll 170 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:10,000 218 171 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:15,000 Jason Fletcher: we'll build our own products until customers show up, and the developers, your or or developer wannabes. I guess the 172 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:20,000 219 173 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:25,000 Jason Fletcher: they're easy to find. They come to us. 174 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:30,000 220 175 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:35,000 Jason Fletcher: We don't do any sort of marketing or anything like that, and they find us through 176 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:40,000 221 177 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:45,000 Jason Fletcher: the government websites. They find us through word of mouth. They find us a lot of different ways, but 178 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:50,000 222 179 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:55,000 Jason Fletcher: it was the employer. Partnerships, the employer clients, right? They those are the ones that came mostly by word of mouth. It's oh, I hear you do software. And so our 1st customers really literally came from the office next door, where they had need for something to be built. And they said, Well, you guys do this? Yeah, sure, we can do that. And you know, when we kind of moved into these rural communities, the the next customers, just 180 00:14:55,000 --> 00:15:00,000 223 181 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:05,000 Jason Fletcher: we're all word of mouth. It was, this person knows this person. And they need software. Okay, we can do that. 182 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:10,000 224 183 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:15,000 Jason Fletcher: And that's really how we've driven most of our marketing. We don't. We don't do a lot of marketing. We don't do a lot of events 184 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:20,000 225 185 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:25,000 Jason Fletcher: but we just do good work, and people pass us on. 186 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:30,000 226 187 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:35,000 Collin Stewart: If you had told me before this interview that your customer act, your primary customer acquisition Channel, would be moving into rural communities 188 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:40,000 227 189 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:45,000 Collin Stewart: as your primary customer acquisition channel for finding development software development work I would have. I would have bet, any amount of money that that was not true. 190 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:50,000 228 191 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:55,000 Collin Stewart: That is just. I love it like it's the craziest customer acquisition channel I've ever heard. And I'm I'm a big fan that's wild. 192 00:15:55,000 --> 00:16:00,000 229 193 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:05,000 Jason Fletcher: You know, it's interesting because we there was a Co. A company out in in Vernal that we we met, and the reason they called us is because they had tried to hire a senior developer. 194 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:10,000 230 195 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:15,000 Jason Fletcher: and they offered them a lot of money. They moved out there lasted 2 weeks, and they were like, I'm not living here, and they moved out. 196 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:20,000 231 197 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:25,000 Jason Fletcher: Now you don't have to go very far. You throw a rock in Vernal, and you'll hit somebody who wants to stay in Vernal, who loves the community, who grew up there, who loves it. 198 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:30,000 232 199 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:35,000 Collin Stewart: So. 200 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:40,000 233 201 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:45,000 Jason Fletcher: The problem is, they don't have a lot of resources for software development in vernal. So getting someone to move there or to have remote workers is very difficult. So originally, they said. 202 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:50,000 234 203 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:55,000 Jason Fletcher: Can you do the work for us because we can't hire somebody? And we said, Sure we can do the work. But in the meantime, how about if you take your people, put them through our program? 204 00:16:55,000 --> 00:17:00,000 235 205 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:05,000 Jason Fletcher: And so they sent one of their tech support guys through the Dev Pipeline program, and he became a software developer for them. They have since hired 2 of our other developers, 2 of our apprentices that have gone through our program. So their entire Dev team right now is dev pipeline trained, and the benefits they get from having that local talent 206 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:10,000 236 207 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:15,000 Jason Fletcher: having somebody who loves the community. Who's gonna stay there? Who's who's not gonna be? I'm out for a better, greener pasture, whatever it's you can't put a price on that. 208 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:20,000 237 209 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:25,000 Collin Stewart: That's really incredible. 210 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:30,000 238 211 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:35,000 Collin Stewart: So 1st customers came from. 212 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:40,000 239 213 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:45,000 Collin Stewart: you know your initial network from the partners from the building next door. Next, customers came from opening up rural communities. 214 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:50,000 240 215 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:55,000 Jason Fletcher: Yeah. 216 00:17:55,000 --> 00:18:00,000 241 217 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:05,000 Collin Stewart: And that's the and the the channel. The primary channel is referrals. 218 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:10,000 242 219 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:15,000 Jason Fletcher: Referrals. It's been word of mouth and reputation. People start to appreciate how we work. You know, transparency is a big deal with us. Quality is a big deal with us. Our mission is a big deal with our customers, and when you look at the this, what we provide by being local. 220 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:20,000 243 221 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:25,000 Jason Fletcher: Both from a language perspective as well as time zone perspectives. Communication is massive. We do, not just agile development. Here at dev pipeline. We also do, you know, regular sprints and regular demos. So our customers are never feeling like they're just writing something on a piece of paper and throwing it over the wall and waiting for something to come back. 222 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:30,000 244 223 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:35,000 Jason Fletcher: And that's huge when you're outsourcing software development. 224 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:40,000 245 225 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:45,000 Jason Fletcher: And from the perspective of working closely with these customers. We're on site with them. We're not, you know, 2,000 miles away. We know they have an issue. We're in their building, and that's that's big. That's a big deal for them. 226 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:50,000 246 227 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:55,000 Collin Stewart: It's interesting. And so you haven't gone much outside of the communities. It's all been local. You're 228 00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:00,000 247 229 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:05,000 Collin Stewart: you could drive to all your customers, offices. 230 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:10,000 248 231 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:15,000 Jason Fletcher: Almost all of them. Yes, yeah, almost all of them. We do have some that are more remote than than than some of the rural companies. We do some work in California. We do some work in Idaho, but you know, for the most part most of our customers are local. 232 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:20,000 249 233 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:25,000 Collin Stewart: Gotcha. 234 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:30,000 250 235 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:35,000 Collin Stewart: Talk to me about the moment that you realized you might have product market fit here. 236 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:40,000 251 237 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:45,000 Jason Fletcher: That's a great question. You know it. A lot of it has to do with 238 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:50,000 252 239 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:55,000 Jason Fletcher: kind of both sides of the equation. If you think about what our mission is with helping build careers in tech and bridging that technology gap? I have to say that that's kind of the product. Right? That's the the changed life is the real product. And and when we hear back from apprentices that say, You know, this has changed everything for us my whole family. This is open doors. I never would have had opened. That's that's massive. 240 00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:00,000 253 241 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:05,000 Jason Fletcher: and that validates that part of it for us, and when our clients that we're working with say, Wow, it's really refreshing to work with a company that listens, and that actually helps us 242 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:10,000 254 243 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:15,000 Jason Fletcher: with not just getting it done, but also getting the right thing done. 244 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:20,000 255 245 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:25,000 Jason Fletcher: That's that's been the validation for me is just seeing both parts of that equation match up to see that the work we do for a customer is good enough. They want to hire our people to continue working with them. 246 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:30,000 256 247 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:35,000 Jason Fletcher: And for for me, that's that's the fit. 248 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:40,000 257 249 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:45,000 Collin Stewart: That's really, I mean, that's really great. 250 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:50,000 258 251 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:55,000 Collin Stewart: The the thing with services. And one of the, you know, when I looked at the sound I was like is this, is this a great fit? But the reason why I thought you'd be interesting to have on here is the the differentiation in the model. 252 00:20:55,000 --> 00:21:00,000 259 253 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:05,000 Collin Stewart: There are anybody can start a any developer. I mean, I could start a software development company. It wouldn't be very good. It would be 254 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:10,000 260 255 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:15,000 Collin Stewart: very likely the worst software development company that has ever been started. Just me and Windsurf vibecoding away just absolute garbage. But anybody could start an agency. 256 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:20,000 261 257 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:25,000 Collin Stewart: What I love about 258 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:30,000 262 259 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:35,000 Collin Stewart: Dev Pipeline is the model. Yes, you theoretically could. But this kind of creates a bit of a moat for you that I couldn't go and create this. I mean, I could try. But I would have to. You know, you get to build the year program. You need to find somebody that has the training. So you've got some. 260 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:40,000 263 261 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:45,000 Collin Stewart: you know, differentiated folks. You've got a differentiated model that's really hard to copy. This is one of the 1st services businesses I've ran into that has a bit of a moat. 262 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:50,000 264 263 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:55,000 Jason Fletcher: Yeah, that's a that's a great point. I think. You know, for those that that might think about copying what we're doing. I say, bring it on, because that's we're not gonna compete necessarily this. This is such a big problem that if there's more people solving it, the more the better. In my opinion. You know, it's just such a a huge issue to solve. There's so many people to help. There's so many 264 00:21:55,000 --> 00:22:00,000 265 265 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:05,000 Jason Fletcher: minds to shift. I think if we look back at the history of hiring, there's been this idea that a college degree is kind of a magic golden ticket to getting a job. 266 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:10,000 266 267 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:15,000 Jason Fletcher: And that's not the case anymore. If we look at college graduate, we've had several college graduates come into our program 268 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:20,000 267 269 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:25,000 Jason Fletcher: because they couldn't get a job out of college. And so they go through our 45 week program and learn, get the on the job training and the experience. And then they can go launch and get a job, because they now have that experience, that application, knowledge and those things. And we're still kind of seeing a slow shift in companies willing to hire. So there's almost this golden ticket mentality in companies. Still, I see these wonderful hiring 270 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:30,000 268 271 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:35,000 Jason Fletcher: posts, their their job postings. They say things like we need someone with 3 years of experience in this technology that's only been around for one. 272 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:40,000 269 273 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:45,000 Jason Fletcher: And you know, it's it's a little bit ridiculous. It's we we kind of have fun with it, but 274 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:50,000 270 275 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:55,000 Jason Fletcher: there really is a almost a wall that's been put up that says if you don't have a college degree, and then you don't qualify. And really most of that is artificial. Some of the best developers I've ever worked with have no college degree. 276 00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:00,000 271 277 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:05,000 Jason Fletcher: And again, if college is an option for someone, I would say, go for it. It's a great, well rounded education. Make sure you tie that that experience with. 278 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:10,000 272 279 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:15,000 Jason Fletcher: you know, real world experience like an internship part time job, something in the industry. So when you graduate, you're not just showing a paper, you're showing experience behind that 280 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:20,000 273 281 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:25,000 Jason Fletcher: you know, but a lot of that comes down to to kind of what my my core belief is. And and I think that if we were to talk about education as a whole. I think it's a little bit 282 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:30,000 274 283 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:35,000 Jason Fletcher: stagnant. 284 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:40,000 275 285 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:45,000 Jason Fletcher: We have believed for so long in education that 286 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:50,000 276 287 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:55,000 Jason Fletcher: that time needs to be fixed. 288 00:23:55,000 --> 00:24:00,000 277 289 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:05,000 Jason Fletcher: And if time is the fixed constant in the equation, that means our outcomes are variable. Now as someone with Adhd who struggled in school as a kid. You know this kind of is very personal for me. But I see that we tell kids you need to be in class for this long, this many hours a day, this many days a week, this many weeks a year. And then we're going to just kind of see how everybody does with that. 290 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:10,000 278 291 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:15,000 Jason Fletcher: And while there has been some innovation in that model, it's 292 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:20,000 279 293 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:25,000 Jason Fletcher: primarily the same as it was, you know, 50 years ago. 294 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:30,000 280 295 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:35,000 Jason Fletcher: and I think that there's got to be a shift at some point to what we're trying to accomplish, which is 296 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:40,000 281 297 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:45,000 Jason Fletcher: true competency based education, which is. 298 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:50,000 282 299 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:55,000 Jason Fletcher: we want to take and make time the variable. We want to fix the outcome. And we can do that by tracking the competencies. 300 00:24:55,000 --> 00:25:00,000 283 301 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:05,000 Jason Fletcher: And so we're currently it's kind of the the next big thing is is this competency tracking platform, and it's assessment tracking improvement and and reporting. 302 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:10,000 284 303 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:15,000 Jason Fletcher: But it allows us as a as a company and as an organization to truly measure that someone's getting it 304 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:20,000 285 305 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:25,000 Jason Fletcher: so that we're not kind of doing the the 10 min university, if you will, which is that in 10 min you could learn everything. You're gonna remember, after 5 years 306 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:30,000 286 307 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:35,000 Jason Fletcher: past college. 308 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:40,000 287 309 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:45,000 Jason Fletcher: like, you know. There's a big joke about it. But the truth is, if you don't apply what you're learning, you're not gonna learn, you have to actually do 310 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:50,000 288 311 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:55,000 Jason Fletcher: in order to learn. And that's really where our college experience for those of us that have gone. It's it's like that's 312 00:25:55,000 --> 00:26:00,000 289 313 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:05,000 Jason Fletcher: that was for some of us 314 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:10,000 290 315 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:15,000 Jason Fletcher: 25 years ago. And if we look at 25 years ago. What am I gonna remember about my humanities class 316 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:20,000 291 317 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:25,000 Jason Fletcher: 25 years. If I'm not in the humanities, I'm not. Gonna remember a whole lot. So 318 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:30,000 292 319 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:35,000 Jason Fletcher: how do we focus on what's important and give experience and and hands-on doing in that? 320 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:40,000 293 321 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:45,000 Jason Fletcher: That's what we focus on. 322 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:50,000 294 323 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:55,000 Collin Stewart: Amazing. 324 00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:00,000 295 325 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:05,000 Collin Stewart: it's been super interesting getting a chance to kind of hear about the story. And a little bit you kind of hinted with the competency piece of what comes next. I am curious, though, you know, is this from a Dev pipeline perspective? Is this a global? You know domination? You're going to be in every rural community in the world, or just taking over Utah. Or 326 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:10,000 296 327 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:15,000 Collin Stewart: it's a yeah great question. I think that for us it's it's about. 328 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:20,000 297 329 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:25,000 Jason Fletcher: Growing and helping as many people as we can. So if I could grow this and have it in every you know, rural community in Utah and even expand into other countries. I'm happy to do it, because as long as we're doing that and staying grounded on our mission, which is helping people build their lives through these careers. Then I'm happy to to grow as big as we need to. I think our apprenticeship model is 330 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:30,000 298 331 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:35,000 Jason Fletcher: is unique. 332 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:40,000 299 333 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:45,000 Jason Fletcher: It's unique in that. 334 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:50,000 300 335 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:55,000 Jason Fletcher: There's not a lot of companies that are set up to actually do what we do 336 00:27:55,000 --> 00:28:00,000 301 337 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:05,000 Jason Fletcher: that aren't set up to really provide that apprenticeship 338 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:10,000 302 339 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:15,000 Jason Fletcher: from, you know, basically really junior to, you know, mid level to to somebody who's prepared to to actually make a contribution in a company. 340 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:20,000 303 341 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:25,000 Jason Fletcher: And there's 342 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:30,000 304 343 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:35,000 Jason Fletcher: there's probably the sky's the limit on this for me. This isn't about scaling for revenue. It's about scaling for purpose, and the revenue comes. 344 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:40,000 305 345 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:45,000 Jason Fletcher: you know, as long as you're pushing in the same direction as Henry Ford said. As long as we're all pushing the same direction, success will take care of itself. 346 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:50,000 306 347 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:55,000 Jason Fletcher: and so we're moving into more communities, more employer partners. 348 00:28:55,000 --> 00:29:00,000 307 349 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:05,000 Jason Fletcher: Scaling up our our competency tool is kind of next on the docket. 350 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:10,000 308 351 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:15,000 Collin Stewart: I love it. 352 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:20,000 309 353 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:25,000 Collin Stewart: If somebody is listening and they want to learn more about you, Dev Pipeline, or just pick your brain. What's the best way for them to reach out. 354 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:30,000 310 355 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:35,000 Jason Fletcher: Yeah, they can reach out on our website, www, dot dev pipeline.com. That's like developer pipeline. And or they can, they can email me at jason@devpipeline.com. 356 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:40,000 311 357 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:45,000 Jason Fletcher: We also have kind of the general info@devpipeline.com. If people are interested in learning more about the apprenticeship program. 358 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:50,000 312 359 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:55,000 Jason Fletcher: They'll probably hear back quicker on that one just because my inbox gets so full. But but yeah, happy to talk to anybody who has any questions about it. 360 00:29:55,000 --> 00:30:00,000 313 361 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:05,000 Collin Stewart: Right on, Jason. Thank you so much for coming on the show and and sharing the deaf pipeline story. I really enjoyed it. 362 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:10,000 314 363 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:15,000 Jason Fletcher: Hey? Thank you. Colin. 364 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:20,000 315 365 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:25,000 Collin Stewart: And thanks to everybody for listening, we'll catch you all next time.