Josh (04:46.66) Dr. Amy Horniman, welcome to Reversible.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (04:52.304) Bingo, exactly.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (05:00.316) Thank you, Josh. I'm super happy to be here.
Josh (05:02.756) I should say welcome back. We actually recorded five, six months ago. The interview was kaput. Your computer wasn't working. I probably lost something on my side. So very gracious of you to join us for a second run.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (05:14.78) Not a problem. Hey, round two is even better because we get to know each other a little bit more and we just riff from there, so.
Josh (05:21.154) I dig it, I'm looking forward to it. So here's what we're gonna do today, Amy, let's just riff. I wanna learn about you, wanna learn about the thyroid. It's one of those things that everybody knows everything about, but knows nothing about. They know the thyroid's important, they know when they get old it tends to slow down, or when they get sick, they have no clue. So first, can you tell us what the thyroid is? And then of course, after we've hooked our listeners into being so interested in the thyroid, then tell us about you.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (05:47.1) Absolutely. So I want to start with a little meme that maybe you see floating around. And really the thyroid has been kind of a brunt of many jokes throughout the years because as soon as you see someone say, I'm gaining weight, it's my thyroid. And it seems like the thyroid gets blamed for everything. And it's almost like that blame is inappropriate, but yet it's not.
Josh (06:05.282) Hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (06:13.5) So we can make fun of it on one hand, it must be my thyroid. I gained weight, it must be my thyroid. I can't poop, it must be my thyroid. I got a divorce, it must be my thyroid, right? But yet the thyroid is the master gland. So it very well could be that at least two or three out of those are legitimately your thyroid because the thyroid controls every cell in your body. So it does have control over your metabolism, your sex hormones, your regulation of glucose.
Josh (06:13.729) Mm -hmm.
Josh (06:20.864) Yeah.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (06:41.116) your gut motility, your brain function, your heartbeat, your body temperature, your blood pressure. So you can see when you go through all the different systems, and that's just a sprinkling of what the thyroid does and has control over in the body, when you go through that, you can really start to see like, my gosh, this really is an important gland that maybe we should pay attention to. And that's the problem that we're seeing in the medical community, in conventional medicine, is that it's not...
shown enough love. It's not paid attention to like it should be to truly, truly help people. And what ends up happening in conventional medicine, which this will lead into my story, is that you're given band -aids instead. So if you're out there listening and you've been handed an antidepressant, a sleeping pill, a PPI, just, I mean, anything you can think of that is just masking the symptom that you went to your doctor for.
Hey doc, I'm really depressed. I just don't have control over my mood. I can't keep going. I don't have enough energy. I don't know what's going on. Here's an antidepressant, you know. So that's the band -aid approach that conventional medicine takes. And really, if we just got to the root cause and addressed low thyroid function, you wouldn't need all of those other band -aid medications. So what happened to me and my story and how I came into this world of thyroid is 20 some odd years ago.
Josh (07:47.198) Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (08:08.7) I was competing in figure competitions and I was doing fitness modeling too and I would die it down for the fitness modeling as hard as I would for a show. As difficult as it was to die it down and get my body in this really lean but yet athletic state, I approached that the same way for a photo shoot. And I had done many of these. I knew how my body should respond or would respond. But this one...
Josh (08:17.977) Hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (08:38.044) show in particular that I was getting ready for. You know, I had a coach. We all need coaches. We all need helpers to get through all these different challenges that we put ourselves through in life. And I would check in with my coach every week and I would get on the scale and have to do a weigh in and a check in and send before and after pictures and all of that or progress pictures rather. And the scale kept going up for me. Every time I would get on the scale, it was up five and then 10 and then 15.
Josh (09:05.275) Hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (09:06.588) all the way up to 25 plus pounds. After that, I stopped weighing myself because I went into such a deep depression. I started self blame, self loathing, you know, and all those thoughts go through your mind like people are judging me and my coach thinks that I'm eating donuts and not doing the plan that he has for me. And you really start to, to...
to come down hard on yourself, especially at that age when I couldn't use, well, I'm getting older as an excuse, right? So I did what we all do. I went to my doctor and I told him what was going on and how I was eating and what was happening. And they ran some tests at the time, who knows what those tests were, and told me I was normal. You're normal, everything's fine. Well, I didn't accept that. I was like, okay, thank you, but yet I'm not normal. My body's rebelling against me. I need an answer.
So I went to doctor number two. just eat less and exercise more. Doctor number three, it's all in your head. Okay, doctor number four, you're normal, everything's fine. I just kept hearing the same thing. Five, six, told me the same thing as well. Doctor number seven diagnosed me. So it took me seven doctors to actually get a diagnosis of hypothyroidism slash Hashimoto's.
Josh (10:30.136) Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (10:31.644) And we did an ultrasound and she handed me a pill that I thought would be the be -all end -all answer to all of my problems and that things would change from that point on. And it didn't. I gave it five months, I didn't lose a pound, I didn't feel better, nothing changed. So I kept hearing the name of a functional medicine practitioner. And this is where I want everybody to really dig into their intuition because you might...
You might resonate with this. You know, when you hear the name of somebody a couple different times from a couple different places, and you go, you know, I keep hearing the name of this person being a thyroid expert or functional medicine practice, right? Gut expert. Maybe I should work with them because it's God or universe or whatever you believe in telling you, here's an answer. I'm going to give it to you two or three times. You need to pick it up and run with it.
Josh (11:20.594) Yeah, that nudge is gonna turn into a push off a cliff if you're not careful.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (11:25.308) yeah, that's classic, absolutely it will. So I did, I listened and I went to see this guy who I kept hearing about, helped other people, blah blah blah. You know, I went in of course skeptical like, okay yeah, what are you gonna do for me that everybody else didn't? And he sat down with me for 90 minutes and went through my labs and we tested everything. Like I remember going to get blood drawn and there was like...
10 vials that came out. I'm like, my God, I'm not going to have any blood left, right? But that's a good thing. That's a good thing. Because he looked at everything. And we sat down for 90 minutes and combed through my labs, my symptoms. And he developed a plan. Like, this is the treatment plan. We're going to change that thyroid hormone medication that you were given, because that's not going to work. We're going to use this instead. And we're going to support your adrenals. And we're going to address your low progesterone. And on and on and on and on.
Josh (11:54.677) leading to death.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (12:21.436) to where that plan worked. And I got my life back, and I lost the weight, and I felt better. And he became my mentor as I changed careers and entered the functional medicine space to help individuals going through the same thing that I went through 20 -some years ago. I see it every day. Every day in my patient population, everybody that comes to work with me, they have the same story, misdiagnosed, unheard, dismissed, whatever it is, mistreated.
They're given the diagnosis, but they're not put on the right plan, the whole thing. So that's why I'm here.
Josh (12:52.946) Mm -hmm.
What a mess too. And it's so interesting how, you know, we go back to our doctor and things keep getting worse or not getting better, but we keep going back to the same doctor. It's like, if I went in and got a tattoo and it was horrific, I'm not going back to the same guy to fix a tattoo that he just botched. I'm going to find somebody different, but it's almost as if we don't have options. We're so limited, but we hear, like you said, the same names over and over and over. I think one of the biggest hurdles from us getting from sick to healthy.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (13:12.028) Right?
Josh (13:24.561) is our own dumbasses. Really, it's just keeping ourselves in one spot. And I've done it in the past, I've got clients who have done it, who have literally come in and gone, I wish I saw you two years ago when this thing started. I said, I know, that's people's biggest regret, it's just not starting sooner. And so we're in this cycle of just getting healthy and then sick and then healthy then sick, but think we're healthy, but now we're sick again and it just, steady decline. And so let's talk about the thyroid here because our listeners are all gut people.
And many of them are going to be having a thyroid issue and they're wondering why do I keep getting sick? What keeps happening? Why do I keep gaining weight? Why do I keep feeling brain fog? Why do I keep getting this fatigue? Why is my hair falling out? And I've got answers, but...
I like to say if you give me a hammer for long enough, eventually everything will sick and nail. Someone comes in with weight gain issues. I'm like, it's probably your gut gut bacteria. And now you're not blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Or you're having brittle hair or you're probably not absorbing nutrients. It's your gut, but it could be your thyroid. So let's talk about this other hammer that I'm not familiar with. It is not my realm of expertise, but you are one of the leading functional medicine experts in the thyroid space. So why is the thyroid important? First of all, second, what does it have to do with our gut? It's way up in our neck. Our guts way down below. How
How can the parcel be connected?
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (14:39.676) Right. Okay, so they're connected on so many different levels. So let's start first with the whole autoimmune three -legged stool premise. So giving credit where credit is due, Alessio Fasano, hilarious dude, came up with the three -legged stool. Talks a lot about celiac, as we know, and gluten, but talks about autoimmune as a three -legged stool. And on the one leg, we have that genetic predisposition.
So, you know, somewhere in your family, your mom has lupus or MS or Hashimoto's or Crohn's disease or celiac or whatever past, that's very, autoimmune is very genetic. So that can be passed down. Or maybe you have psoriasis or you were already diagnosed celiac or Crohn's, you already have that genetic predisposition. Then the other leg of the stool is leaky gut, which as you can speak about too, most of us have that because we're in this,
westernized society, we're bombarded with toxins, we're bombarded with pesticides, we're bombarded in our gut to where who doesn't have leaky gut right now? I mean, maybe you don't because you know what to do with it and your clients don't, but right, like who doesn't? And then we have the trigger. So that could be stress. It could be a hormonal change that is natural like pregnancy.
Josh (15:52.876) I do, surprisingly enough.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (16:06.78) perimenopause, menopause, hormonal shifts. It can be really anything. It can even be exposure to gluten, which the exposure to gluten can also contribute to the leaky gut, but it acts as the third leg of the stool as a trigger as well. And then that is enough to turn that Hashimoto switch on. So really what we've been doing to our guts throughout the years is essentially setting us up for Hashimoto's or any autoimmune to express itself, that little...
Josh (16:25.898) Hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (16:36.252) that little genetic switch that's in the off position, boom, gets flipped on. And that's where you'll hear people say, you know, it was after XYZ. It could have been after I had this bout of food poisoning, I started gaining weight. I started getting tired. My hair was falling out. I got constipated. All of those symptoms. It was after my second child. I started gaining weight. Now I can't lose it like I did with the first kid. And...
and on and on. So you can almost, in most cases, trace back to that moment in time that the symptoms started. And there's that gut connection with autoimmune. You know, we also have the direct effect of the thyroid gland on the gut in that it controls motility. So constipation is a really, really big symptom with low thyroid function. And when you have low thyroid function,
you're going to have slower motility and basically a backup in the system.
Josh (17:34.129) Hmm.
So it's really interesting because one of the things that we don't consider in gut is motility. I think we forget it's an assembly line where if everything's not in perfect timing and everything comes out to the back end, it's going to be all jacked up. Whatever your byproduct is at the end of the assembly line. If everything's not timed perfectly, your individual pieces and stations, if you will, don't do their job. Everything gets messed up. And so this thyroid having issues here messes up your gut motility and that's going to mess up your end products, your gut bacteria or everything.
And so.
I actually want to put a quick shout out to you. For any of our listeners who've heard episode 46, it was titled the three causes of all gut disease. I've been working on this for years, Amy, and it was really interesting because after listening to Dr. Amy Myers and yourself, it just, it was that one little piece I needed to click. I've been explaining gut disease. I'm like, here's the things and here's how it becomes autoimmune and everything that we need. I ended up coming up with this three circled Venn diagram that explains IBD across the board for everyone all the way.
and I'm literally writing a book about it now. So thank you because it's so true this three -legged stool of autoimmune disease that leaky gut and the triggers and the genetics but let's dive in a little bit more. So we've gone into the thyroid and we get that it's a motility piece but what does it do? You describe it as the master regulator, the master gland, like it does everything. I mean...
Josh (18:59.271) thyroid turns a tadpole into a frog. It's not just this make you fat, make you skinny hormone. What does it actually do to us for development? How does it connect to our entire body as a unit?
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (19:11.708) For development, it's going to regulate specifically in the womb brain development. So this is, I mean, number one, the thyroid has to be optimized for conception. We see a lot of infertility, a lot of miscarriages when a woman is hypothyroid not being treated properly or not even diagnosed. I see that a lot in relation to infertility. And then we have conception and development of the baby.
Why are we seeing more and more and more autism lately? You know, when you and I were in school, we had maybe two kids that went to the special classroom, and now we have full classrooms in every single school for autistic children. It has to be a connection to our outside environment, to our world, to the toxin exposure, to the amount of...
Josh (19:56.324) Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (20:05.596) everything from heavy metals to mold to toxins to pesticides to chemicals in our food that aren't even allowed in Europe or feeding our kids, you know, blue food dye, red food dye, all the things. But it could start with mom. And I always give the example of my stepson who is 11 years old, nonverbal, autistic, severely developmentally delayed. And all I have to do is look at mom and believe me, I mean, they went to all the specialists.
And this is really where my husband gets so frustrated. He's like, we went to Muggy Hospital in Pittsburgh. We met with a genetic expert. She had three miscarriages before we actually conceived. And they told us everything was fine. Well, that's because conventional medicine misses the big old red flag that the body is waving. Hey, just check the thyroid, maybe something other than TSH.
to see if there's enough thyroid hormone for this baby to develop. And I look at mom and I see this swollen neck and I see the weight gain up 20, down 15, up 15, down 10. And I'm like, my God, she had a thyroid problem and she still does. And that absolutely contributed to the lack of brain development in utero. So that's where it really becomes essential from the beginning.
Now I might have just went off on a tangent and not answered your initial question, but you can bring it around.
Josh (21:32.386) No, you did great. That was, that's actually really interesting because you mentioned thyroid and brain development, but I want to throw another question at you then because obviously development, it's neurological tissue. But I mean, if the human brain has what 50 or a hundred billion neurons is estimated, the gut has four or 500 million neurons. What is the role in thyroid and the development of healthy gut tissue?
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (21:56.572) You know what? I don't know. I don't know the direct effect as we are developing in the womb on the gut tissue. That I don't know. I know that there are more receptor sites on the brain for thyroid hormone than any other part of the body. So that's where we see that very strong connection to brain development, cognition, learning, memory, all of that, IQ. But I'm not positive about the gut.
Josh (22:07.009) Hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (22:26.396) Now we know there's a gut -brain connection. So again, when we go back to looking at conditions like autism, everybody is like, fix the kid's gut first. You know, remove the toxins, remove the processed food, and do some kind of gut healing protocol because of that gut -brain connection. But I don't know the direct effect of thyroid hormone on gut tissue development.
Josh (22:26.784) Hmm.
Josh (22:51.295) Hmm. It'd be interesting to explore. I mean, I've got a kid right now I'm working with. He's 19, 20 years old, nonverbal autistic, very aggressive, hating all the time. but six weeks in simply worked. He's got, we've got an organic acid test at a urine test, full of fungus, full of mold, full of clostridia, tons of toxins. Six weeks of just binding and removing. We changed his diet and he went from hitting and yelling to like sitting with his parents and giving them a hug in six weeks. And so it can be so easy, but what do they want to do? They.
want to medicate with sedatives instead. Clearly it's like a baby they scream they cry because they can't use their words neither can autistic kid but he's big enough to hit and so we just have to realize it's kind of the same thing. So we dove into a little bit here we talked about the thyroid we talked about the gut we talked about the brain I want to get a little bit more inquiry we'll say because the thyroid is really interesting so we know the thyroid affects the gut but if you come in with gut issues we often see people who had gut issues first.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (23:22.908) Yep. Yep.
Josh (23:50.013) thyroid problems later. And after this, just for our listeners, hang tight here because we want to dive into how to get your thyroid checked. But can you explain to us if someone comes in with gut issues, whether it's dysbiosis or bowel disease or whatever they're dealing with, how and why does this negatively impact the thyroid or at least your thyroid readings on blood work?
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (24:10.14) Well, okay, so let's start with the two thyroid, well, there's four thyroid hormones total. The two we're gonna talk about for this conversation is T4 and T3. T4 is inactive and T3 is active. So T4 actually has to convert over and become T3. If you think about every single cell in your body, whether it's on your brain, in your gut, everywhere, your heart, those cells only have receptor sites on them for T3.
It's like a lock and key. So T4 converts over, becomes T3. T3 goes to the cell, locks in, turns, activates that cell. Whether we're activating your gut motility, your metabolism, your hair growth, your brain function, whatever, that's what occurs. T4 is totally inactive. There's not a single receptor site in your body for T4. One of the main conversion areas in our body, outside of the thyroid gland itself, is the gut.
for T4 to T3 conversion. So obviously if you're coming in and you have, just like you said, Josh dysbiosis, IBD, whatever it is, H. pylori, that's going to interfere with proper conversion of either your own thyroid hormone that your thyroid gland is producing, because our thyroid gland produces 80 % T4 and 20 % T3, so a lot of that T4 that your body, your own thyroid gland is producing might not get converted properly.
and we can talk about what it gets converted to if it doesn't get converted to T3. And then you actually have the location of conversion interfering. And then if you're taking T4 medication, like I was given T4, that was the pill that I was given by doctor number seven, who said, here you go, you're diagnosed, now good luck. T4 only doesn't work because you're giving the inactive form of thyroid hormone.
Josh (25:52.024) Hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (26:03.42) and we're crossing our fingers and wishing on a rainbow that this person's body is so perfect that it's going to beautifully convert this T4 to the active thyroid hormone T3, we know that it really doesn't do that very efficiently. So right there is the very strong connection. The other thing that I'll see down the road as we're trying to optimize and we're bringing in T3 medication to this person's world is that sometimes people don't...
Josh (26:07.361) You
Josh (26:11.832) Yeah.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (26:33.564) Well, there's two things I'll see. Number one, they're intolerant of the T3. We give them this itty bitty dose, like that of which I would give to my dog to start off with, right? To see how they, how do they actually process and tolerate this T3. I'm like, my gosh, I'm jittery, I'm anxious, I don't know what's going on, I feel like I'm crawling out of my skin. Well, that's your gut not breaking it down properly, and there's something going on there that you're becoming intolerant to it.
Josh (26:42.775) Hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (27:01.564) So for those people, we might even have them dissolve it mucosally because that way it doesn't even have to pass through the gut, or most of it does not have to pass through the gut. And then the other thing that we'll see is the lack of processing. So we're increasing your T3, we're increasing, I'm not getting any better. All right, let's increase, increase, increase. It looks good on the labs, I'm not getting any better. Increase, increase. Their gut is just so messed up that they can't even...
break down and assimilate that T3 like they properly should, like they should be doing to actually get better and get optimized.
Josh (27:37.14) Okay, so the number one question that I think everyone's wondering right now is one, why in the hell does my doctor not even talk to me about this stuff? They come in and go, your thyroid's low. So first of all, what are they testing? I'm using big ass air quotes for you on listening here who aren't watching the video. Giant bunny ear finger quotes. Why do they say your thyroid is quote low and then just throw some T4 or the synthroid or some kind of pill at you? What the hell are they doing so wrong?
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (28:04.38) Standard of care. I mean, that's what they learn in med school. I don't even know if they get a full day or a week on the thyroid, quite honestly. I think it's just all lumped in with the quickie chapter on the endocrine system. So here's the formula for conventional medicine. If TSH is above a 4 .5, which is the current cutoff, then give T4, period.
Josh (28:08.084) That sentence is a joke, eh?
Josh (28:14.292) Peace.
Josh (28:21.204) You
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (28:34.236) Like, that is it. That is the standard of care, right? So if you come in depressed, your doctor will try five different antidepressants, stack it with an anti -psychotic and a sleeping pill until they can get you feeling better. But if you come in and you're like, I think it's my thyroid. I have all these symptoms. Well, we'll test one thing. And if this, then this, one pill. And this is what I talked about. I gave a talk to integrative wellness physicians years ago.
Josh (28:56.595) Hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (29:02.556) And that's the exact example that I gave them. I said, why is it that you will literally stack five different band -aids, i .e. antidepressants, onto this person? And I mean, you could come in with a gut issue and you're going to get an antidepressant. Like, they give antidepressants for literally everything, and they won't give thyroid hormone that is natural to your body. Your body produces thyroid hormone. Your body doesn't produce Zoloft.
Josh (29:16.882) I see it all the time.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (29:31.388) So why won't they give thyroid hormone to a person in the proper ratios, amounts, dose, the whole thing? I don't get it. It's just standard of care.
Josh (29:31.889) Hehehe.
Josh (29:43.984) Standard of care is crap. So give you a fun little story. I went over because I've been dealing with Candida since I was like 12, 13. Didn't really know it. Looking back and go, okay, that explains my joint pains. It explains the brain fog ADHD right into my like late 20s. I had acne when I was probably 18, 19. There wasn't an inch on my back that didn't have acne. It got so bad. It was literally down my arms like it was blocking up my lymphatics. It was cystic and it hurt. It was the worst. My brain was off the charts. So I went to the doctor. Well, it's IBS. You do.
exfoliate more. Gave me this St. Ives scrub which made everything way worse. I ended up dealing with all kinds of ADHD stuff. Went to a psychiatrist who gave me Vyvanse which made me suicidal and straight up crazy. It was why I've never experienced something like that. And then I fixed my gut and boom things go away. Boom. You shouldn't be a 15 year old kid with arthritis. You know what I mean? Like clearly there's a problem. And so I went to the dermatologist. I thought well...
Here's what I got. Now here I am late twenties, early thirties. I'm learning all this stuff and I went to the dermatologist. This was just a couple of weeks back. I was like, Hey, I'm still having a little bit of acne issues coming up once in a blue moon. If I eat something I shouldn't, if I get really stressed, it can creep up on me. So I've still clearly got a Candida issue in there somewhere. It's a long game. It'll take me two years probably to clear this out. Well, I recently on a stool test also found parasites and I thought, okay, well I got to get these parasites out. Now I've got a whole protocol working on my drainage pathways. No problem. But why?
I don't. I'm an advocate for integrative medicine, which means I'm looking for natural, holistic and pharmaceutical to really work together. I went to the dermatologist said, Hey, here's the root cause. He says, Nope, can't do that. He says, what I can give you is Accutane, which will block my skin from basically detoxing the stuff it's trying to detox, which is a natural mechanism. He says, I can give you antibiotics, which will make my Candida worse because they're opportunistic, they overgrow, or I can give you this topical cream to put on top to help with the inflammation. I said,
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (31:29.276) Great.
Josh (31:39.102) okay I get that and I explained I said here is the situation I have the test I have this is what I specialize in I'm telling you it's fungal here's why ABCD 40 different reasons he goes yeah I see that he says I'm one of the top dermatologists in the country
I don't disagree with you, but I don't speak on this. It's not standard of care. I can't intervene, but I can give you your Accutane. I'm like, this is bullshit. So your quote, standard of care, that sentence is a laugh all by itself because even though they can look you in the eye and go, I know your root cause is the same as the thing you're saying, but I can't touch it because my overlords tell me I can't do it, which is kind of astonishing. So I just wanted to affirm your standard of care and say, I get it.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (32:20.508) These stories never stop amazing me. I hear them so much as do you, but every single new story still puts my jaw on the floor. Like, are you serious? Really? Like this is helping people.
Josh (32:35.466) It's helping the shareholders is what it's helping Crazy so okay, so we've gone into this I want to dive in one more loop back a little because
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (32:38.076) Yeah, exactly.
Josh (32:45.705) You did mention your doctor will check TSH. Now for our listeners, I'm sure they're familiar. They probably hadn't checked. We actually had our TSH range here in Alberta jump from 1 .4. I had a client went and got her thyroid tested. She was a 4 .1. So she was just on the outside. Her doctor said, well, your thyroid's performing a little low, but why don't we come back in a few months and see what's happening? They offered her antidepressants. He said, nope, came back in three months time. And it was like a 5 .7. They said, you're normal. Don't worry about it. Go home. Because in that three month time from one year of 2022,
to 2023, whatever it was, they changed their range from 1 .4 to 1 .65, adding 67 % increased margin of error. So what is TSH? Why is that what doctors are checking? And what can we do better?
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (33:29.692) TSH is thyroid stimulating hormone, and it's a pituitary hormone. It's not a thyroid hormone, so it's important to remember that. It's released by your brain in response to how much thyroid hormone you have in your body. So as TSH goes up, it's kind of like screaming at the thyroid. It's getting louder as it increases, telling the thyroid gland, hey, you're not doing your job. You're not producing enough thyroid hormone here. You need to kick it up a notch here. Now...
In the United States, our TSH range has been debated for decades. It used to go to 10. Then we argued it down to six. Right? Like, listen, if you're, if you're coming in at a 10 or nine or five, you're miserable. I feel bad for these people.
Josh (34:03.875) That's so high. boy.
Josh (34:14.887) yeah.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (34:16.86) And then we got it down to a six and now it's a 4 .5. In functional medicine, we want that TSH below a two. And no, I do not care if it is suppressed. That does not mean that you're hyperthyroid. So below a two for TSH is optimal. But you can't stop there because like we said, it's a pituitary hormone. You have to keep testing. And I guarantee you if I could go back to that very first doctor, even two, three, four, five.
They probably tested TSH alone. Now maybe they tested free T4 or total T4. And again, like we mentioned earlier, T4 is inactive. So I'll test it, I'll look at it in context of the whole picture, but you can't hang your hat on it and you can't chase an optimal T4. So I've actually stopped saying what the optimal free T4 is because inevitably I'll get questions from people saying, okay, well then I should increase my T4 to hit that optimal free T4. And I go, well,
Maybe, but maybe not. Let's keep going. Let's look at your free T3, because that's the active thyroid hormone. That's the unbound, ready -to -get -to -the -cell marker of your active thyroid hormone. Let's look at that, and let's look at your reverse T3, which is your anti -thyroid hormone. So that is what we talked about earlier, how that T4 has to convert. Converts in the gut, converts in the thyroid, converts in the liver and peripheral tissues. That T4 has to convert over and become...
T3 now it has basically pictured as having two paths two paths diverge in a wood and which one does t4 pick we hope that it picks free t3 But it could choose the reverse t3 path and get converted to reverse t3 What this means for you if you're a non converter like myself or a poor converter like many people is That your reverse t3 will go up which essentially puts you in survival mode
Reverse T3 is a beautifully built -in survival mechanism to our body. If you're injured, if you're in a car crash, whatever, and you're laying there fighting for your life, Reverse T3 goes up because it knows at that point in time, you don't have to burn fat, you don't have to think, you don't have to feel good, you don't have to grow your hair, you don't have to poop every day. You just need to lay there and survive. So it's gonna shut down all systems that are not required and funnel energy to healing and survival of the injury.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (36:35.516) The problem is, is if we have reverse T3 elevated when we're walking around trying to live life on a day -to -day basis, and we don't really want to not burn fat and not have energy and not poop every day and not feel good and not grow our hair and not be able to think. So we have to check reverse T3, and that's probably one of the most important tests, whether you're on thyroid hormone or not, to check. And then we want to look for Hashimoto's. We want to test TPO and TGA, because I want to see if you have Hashimoto's or not. Not going to change...
my optimization process. At the end of the day, I want you to optimize. I want that free T3 optimal in the upper quadrant of the range. I want the reverse T3 optimal less than 12. And then the free T4 will come into play in the nuanced scenario that is you. So as we look at you as an individual and plan out your thyroid treatment protocol, then we take that into consideration.
Josh (37:20.833) Mm -hmm.
Josh (37:28.576) Okay, so is this a scenario that someone might be experiencing? This is again with my, I'd say relatively limited thyroid specific knowledge. It's something I'm aware of. Obviously I'm not a specialist. So we get people coming in and my summation is that the scenario is they have a gut issue of some kind that perhaps started in the gut. And so what's happening now is a thyroid isn't converting from T4 inactive to T3 active. So they go to the doctor, they're having some problems, they run some blood work and go, your TSH is up. So it's communicative.
saying we need more active thyroid so it produces more T4 which again doesn't get converted and so they go back to their doctor and they say up it's not working here's your T4 pill which again doesn't convert or they give them a T3 pill which again they can't extract and so they get they're feeling worse and the guts backing up the liver so they lost two of their major conversion sites and they're spiraling in this cycle and wondering why both their gut and their hormones are slipping.
does that sound like an adequate assumption of events?
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (38:30.332) Yes, and nine times out of 10, what the doctor will do is give them more T4. So your TSH is going up. Let's take your T4 from that 50 micrograms to 75 and then to 88 and then 100 and then 125. And the person keeps saying, I'm taking more thyroid hormone and feeling worse. And every time I do an increase, I feel worse. So they're in, and no one is testing reverse T3. I mean, they're in lies that...
Josh (38:35.069) good.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (38:58.588) the underlying mechanism of making someone worse, their reverse T3 is going up with the increased T4 med. So it's not gonna help unless you fix the issue of conversion. Now, yes, we could fix the gut and increase that conversion. We also have to look at insulin resistance, estrogen dominance, low iodine intake, iodine deficiency.
anemia, low ferritin levels, all of that comes into play. And then there are genetic SNPs. So sometimes it is the fact that, you know, this is my whole theory of both and, like, we have to give you that thyroid medication to try to get you optimized. Look at your hormones as well, but let's also look at your gut function and your nutrition and see what's going on over here. Because if we don't do both, one is not going to work with the other.
or without the other. So we have to do both and address everything at the same time to really get the system working like it should.
Josh (40:02.17) Interesting. So doctors suck. I don't blame all doctors. I mean, I attribute my entire career where it's at to doctors being open and open minded in the functional space saying, hey, teach me something. I teach you something. We all come up together. What it is, is these really bullish doctors, which I've experienced a fair bit. And you might not be surprised, Amy, I have helped. I think we just did the math recently. It's just north of 300 people the last two years alone, reverse their Crohn's and colitis, which is supposed to be impossible. Gone.
symptom -free, nothing, basically a miracle. We're actually looking to publish some research and case studies now to show this can be done. And so...
Unfortunately, we've worked with hundreds of people who collectively have worked with multiple hundreds of different doctors. I've had one in my entire career reach out. That's Dr. Youssef Salebi, who said, let's work together. He actually brought me in. I now lecture at his academy. Like we just, we do a lot of great work together. It's been amazing. He's been, he's actually the one who introduced me to all these wonderful guests on the show. Really that started the ball rolling. And so that was a total godsend. He's been amazing, but that's one out of.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (41:07.452) one. Right.
Josh (41:08.344) Hundreds and hundreds and I've had maybe five or six say I'm interested I'd like to learn more which I've emailed and emailed and emailed Heard back from one who never followed up and some of them had their hands tied. They're too busy They stuck in an insurance wheel Some are there's hubris some don't care to learn I've had doctors come back to my clients who have like reversed 90 days Crohn's gone CT enterography scans scopes no signs blood work. Perfect You'd never know she had it doctor looks at her chart and goes I'd like to put you on some immunosuppressive
because you have Crohn's disease. She goes, but I feel great. She says, yeah, but you have Crohn's. She's looking at the paper. And so we see this insanity. And so it is so nice and so refreshing to hear voices like this, but we need more. Tell us more, Amy. We talked about TSH. We talked about T3 and T4. So we have this inactive T4 converts the T3. We have the volume knob of the TSH from the brain to the thyroid gland.
What else if we're going in for blood work? We say, you know, I want to check my thyroid. Your doctor's just checking TSH. We need to make a special request. What are we asking for?
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (42:11.42) Okay, so what we're asking for, and then I have a rule for you as well. So what we're asking for is the TSH, the free T3, the free T4, reverse T3, TPO, which is thyroid peroxidase, and TG, thyroid globulin antibody, or it can be anti -thyroid. Yep, yep, TPO and TG are the two thyroid antibodies. Any antibody is an antibody, so that's important to remember as well that even if you come out,
Josh (42:26.646) and that TPO is your thyroid antibody. Okay.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (42:40.092) come back with, let's say, a TPO of, I'll just give an example because it's different on every lab. Let's say the reference range is less than 34 and you come back with a TPO of a 20. Your doctor says you don't have Hashimoto's, but we're gonna watch and wait or wait and see, right? Keep an eye on it. Well, no, you have Hashimoto's. So are we just gonna keep an eye on it until that person is 50 pounds heavier and can't get off the couch or are we gonna address it right now? So those are the tests that you absolutely must.
Josh (43:02.741) Hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (43:08.252) Get tested. Now my rule is, if a doctor says no to testing, it's time to get a new doctor. Because if you have to beg for tests to be done, it's no money out of their pocket to write tests. Now, they get money when they write you a prescription from Big Pharma for those antidepressants or the PPIs, but it's no money out of their pocket to write a test script for you to take to the lab.
Josh (43:17.779) Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (43:36.572) The problem comes in is that they have been taught that if they don't know how to interpret something or if they're... Now, this is a broad statement. I'll dissect it a little more. If there is not a pill to treat it, you don't test it. Now, here's the thing. There actually is a pill to treat elevated reverse T3. It's called iodine and T3. You know, so there are... But that's not Big Pharma. That's not Big Pharma. Synthroid, the makers of Synthroid sponsor medical schools.
Josh (43:58.011) Hmm.
Josh (44:01.362) Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (44:06.492) not the makers of liothyronine. I mean, that just is. So what they have been taught to a point is just pounded into their brains even from medical school and who knows what's the whole lineage of who's greasing what hand and what. As the makers of Synthroid come in and go, okay, now Lee Com.
You know that Synthroid is all that these docs need to know for thyroid conditions, right? You want that, you know, $2 billion donation, right? So, I mean, we just kind of have to face the facts nowadays that if you expect to try to convince your PCP or your insurance -based doctor to do the testing, know what to do with it, treat you properly at the doses that you might need to really get optimized.
Josh (44:44.401) Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (45:05.5) That might be a really long road for you. I'm not discouraging anyone from talking to their doctor because just like you said, there might be that diamond in the rough. We have a couple patients that actually do work with their own provider because they want to, they develop a relationship. And just like you said, those providers are eager to learn. They actually want to learn. They say,
Josh (45:10.737) Mm -hmm.
Josh (45:15.312) Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (45:30.172) bring me back what she says and ask her if I can jump on a call with her. Like, yeah, let's do it. But that's so few and far between. I mean, like you said, you had one, I could probably name five in the last couple of years of patients that had open -minded practitioners.
Josh (45:44.591) Mm -hmm.
Yeah, it's a little bit staggering, unfortunately. So we really have to be our own advocates because the medical system, unless there's literal profit and cash, and I mean, I get it that the doctor's hands are tied because what happens is they go in, if they spend more than seven to 10 minutes, they only get X amount of dollars per patient reimbursed by insurance. The faster you get them through, the more you get paid for your hour. And if you don't push them through, it's not you being greedy. You got staff, you got nurses, you got overhead to pay for. Your business goes under if you don't bow to the master.
And so many of them are stuck, but unfortunately it takes it really the idea of it's not broke don't fix it to the nth degree We literally will not intervene until it's already broken It's like you got into a car accident and your arm is literally hanging off like well We'll address that once it fully detaches then it's a problem like okay. Thanks. Thanks doc It's really unfortunate the internal works the same But we really got this nice roadmap now to be able to advocate for ourselves the same
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (46:37.02) Right.
Josh (46:47.358) no here's a testing I want I've got a laundry list but you mentioned something very interesting before we really dove into the podcast today pre -record about something called T2 which I would venture to say most people have never heard of so what is this mystery alien hormone where does it come from what does it do?
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (47:04.7) Yes, T2, fascinating. So your body does make T2. So I said in the beginning, makes four hormones. We really focus on T3 and T4 because that's what can be prescribed to you. So thyroid hormone replacement therapy is going to be T4 and T3 separated or T4 and T3 combined in the form of NDT, which is natural desiccated thyroid. That's your armor, your NP thyroid.
Now if we look at armor and NP, we see that it does contain T1 and T2 as well because the thyroid gland produces T1, 2, 3, 4. T1 is inactive, we can kind of set that aside. Not much clinical significance there. T2, it turns out, after 30 years of research on it, is very active. So it acts like T3 in that it will stimulate our metabolism and help improve all functions of the body.
but it doesn't act on the thyroid gland itself. So it doesn't provide that negative feedback loop where if you take it, you're going to essentially shut down your own thyroid hormone production. There's no negative feedback loop. It works at the mitochondria level instead. So the research is showing that T2 is very, very effective and is kind of rising in its effectiveness to treat obesity because we know we're in an obesity crisis right now, especially in the United States, even down to our kids.
being prescribed Ozempic at the age of 12 because that now is standard of care for kids with diabetes. We need to intervene with something that is safer. And T2 is rising in the ranks as being very, very safe. It increases our basal metabolic rate. So basically you're burning more fat at rest. It stimulates mitochondrial uncoupling and it acts like a cold plunge.
Josh (48:35.44) Hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (48:57.5) in that it activates brown adipose tissue. So it's helping turn our white fat into brown fat. And brown fat is actually the type of fat that you want and that we need. It's very metabolically active. It increases our metabolism. It helps with insulin resistance. It helps improve our lipid profile. So we want that brown fat to be activated. That's why we jump in cold water and try to shiver our way through a two -minute session in a cold plunge.
Josh (49:26.568) Sure.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (49:26.812) But you can do that with T2 as well. The other benefit of T2 is that it doesn't have to be prescribed. So all of this that we've been talking about today, the testing, the proper thyroid treatment, me being given a T4 only pill and that not working, that all has to be through a practitioner that does the thyroid, which I do that with people. I mean, that is still important.
But the beauty of T2 is that it is over the counter. And that's what I actually put in my thyroid fixer supplement, because I've been studying this for 15 years. And that it can do very, very similar functions to the body as T3, all the beneficial functions, helping us burn fat, helping us have more energy. It increases ATP production. It just helps improve our whole cardiovascular system and our insulin response, blood sugar response.
without that negative side effect of maybe, you know, people get a little bit jittery on T3. It has no cardiovascular side effect. It won't increase your heart rate. It won't act as a stimulant where it's making you jittery. So this is really coming up as a very promising tool in not only thyroid optimization, but in the whole obesity epidemic that we're looking at right now.
Josh (50:32.709) Hmm.
Josh (50:45.221) Now is there a danger or risk to this? I mean obviously using things like Ozempic abusively, which is what's happening in obesity, it's an excuse. I mean there are people who legitimately can benefit from it for short or medium duration, long term, that's fine. But there's a huge level of abuse, frankly, to just bold ass laziness. I don't want to exercise, I don't want to change my diet, I want to eat like a raccoon, whatever I can find just shove it in my mouth goes down. And so now we have these weight loss drugs.
do you see or foresee a potential risk, not only to like the abuse of something like this T2 boost or these T2 supplements, but is there a really a potential health risk of actually taking these and abusing them?
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (51:27.996) I've dug through the literature and I've been using it with my patients. I mean, 15 years ago, I was using it actually in a, we'll call it a bro science form, you know, like the bodybuilding supplements that are out there that, right? It's just dudes buying this, but I was using this with my female patients and seeing tremendous results. So that's what led me to formulate my own. And honestly, Josh, I can't find anything negative.
Josh (51:41.827) know exactly what you mean. Yeah.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (51:58.364) I just can't. I mean, certain people that are very sensitive will say that they feel a stimulant effect on it. So maybe it'll affect their sleep or their ability to fall asleep at their normal time if they take it too late in the day. But you don't feel that stimulation. And it doesn't result in a rapid heart rate. We're not seeing changes in your Roop or your Apple Watch or anything like that or your heart rate variability. So honestly, I've dug for it.
Josh (51:59.491) Hmm.
Josh (52:20.962) Hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (52:25.948) I have Doug Ford, I was on Ben Greenfield's podcast, I'm gonna be on it again, and he's asking me the same question, you know, is there any negative effect from this T2? And I'm like, I'm looking, I can't find it. I can't find anything that says that it has a negative effect. One paper in particular said that it did have a thyromimetic effect, meaning that it pushed down someone's TSH. Now,
If we really look, we can see that T2, if an iodine atom comes on and attaches to it, it becomes T3. So it's kind of in a roundabout. It's not that that happens very quickly or continuously. It just can happen. So maybe someone with a free T3 level of, let's say, a 3, which still is an optimal, might have a free T3 of a 3 .5 and be pushing.
more toward optimization, which will then lower the TSH. Which like I said in the beginning, I don't care about a suppressed TSH. I get that question all the time. Because whenever you're on T3 medication, or even if you're on a boatload of T4 and it's not doing anything for you, you can still get that TSH suppression because of the feedback loop to the pituitary, to the hypothalamus saying, okay, shut down thyroid production now. Tell the thyroid gland it doesn't have to work as hard.
Josh (53:23.42) Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (53:48.7) and produce as much T4 and T3, because we're good here.
Josh (53:52.159) But would that shut down your own production? Like if I inject testosterone, right, the testicles and probably 75, 85 % of men will shrink because the latex cells don't need to continue producing. They can bounce back over time. Sometimes they don't. Do you get the same type of medium or long -term suppressive effect on a TSH?
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (54:10.364) With thyroid medication, we will. So with T4 and T3, yes, but we don't really care because your thyroid gland wasn't doing a great job anyways. You know, it's just like when we have a 45 -year -old male that has a testosterone level of a 250, do I care about the suppression? Nope, because his testes aren't doing a great job anyway. So let's just replace that hormone.
Josh (54:20.829) You sure it's fair? Yeah.
Josh (54:37.309) That's fair.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (54:39.9) So in the case of when I'm treating patients, yeah, I want to use the proper thyroid hormone replacement dose, and I really don't care about the natural suppression because they're thyroid gland, especially in the case of Hashimoto's, it can be eaten down to this little bitty jagged edged little pearl, you know, and it's not even the same size anymore. So it's certainly not going to produce the right amount of T4 and T3. In the case of T2, we're not seeing that much of a suppression. So maybe it goes from a 2,
to a one or to a 0 .7, something like that. But that's, again, it's not enough to totally shut down your own thyroid production. And that's only if it attaches that iodine molecule and becomes T3 and then has that feedback loop to the TSH. But that was one paper out of so many that noticed the thyromimetic effect. All the other papers said there was no change to TSH, no change to free T3 and free T4. In fact, the one paper...
Josh (55:12.091) Hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (55:39.1) It took, it only used two human subjects, but they were euthyroid, so they didn't even have a thyroid problem. And they were given T2, and of course we test their total thyroid panel in the beginning and at the end. No change whatsoever, but we did see an average nine pound weight loss in 28 days. And with that, a 4 % reduction in body fat, which is significant because T2 won't...
affect the muscle, it won't burn the muscle tissue like we're seeing with Ozempic and with all the GLPs. And like we even see with T3, T3 can burn muscle tissue. T2 just directly works on fat and leaves the muscle.
Josh (56:17.945) Hmm.
Josh (56:21.689) That's amazing. So one last question here. I know we're wrapping towards the end of things.
I never like leaving these things on a doom and gloom. I think as practitioners, we definitely have this tendency to want to warn people, to tell people, to share. I do it all the time and I'm really working on making a conscious effort to say, look, here's the problem. Here's also a solution. So what are the outside factors that people can look out for realistically? If they got gut issues, they know they got gut issues. We're pumping out an episode here. By the time this one publishes, it'll be out about how to predict disease in the future based on what you're seeing, et cetera. So what are some of the things that you can do to help people
some of the things that people can look at, whether it's their gut, their food, their lifestyle, anything that are going to be negatively influencing their thyroid and then reasonable realistic steps they can take for that.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (57:09.372) Yes, okay. So the top three offenders to your thyroid are fluoride, chlorine, and bromide. Fluoride, change out, get a fluoride -free toothpaste. It's super simple. You could do it today. And if you're still getting fluoride treatments at the dentist, stop and don't let your kids get a meter. Detrimental to the thyroid gland. Absolutely detrimental. And if you think about it, we're putting fluoride here and our thyroid gland is like an inch away. So that's just...
Josh (57:30.679) I watched somebody at the pharmacy.
Josh (57:37.75) Yeah. I watched someone at the pharmacy buy fluoride pills for their child as a supplement. Yeah, for those of you listening, she's facepalming right now.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (57:39.356) silliness and that's easy to change.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (57:46.46) man, yeah.
Yeah, I just am. I'm just shaking my head right now. Head in hand, head in hand. But they'll learn one day when their kid has a thyroid problem. And then chlorine. Okay, I get it. We can't all afford a whole house reverse osmosis water filtration system, but we can certainly go to Home Depot and get a filter for the shower. Because if you're showering in hot chlorine and that's literally being absorbed into your skin,
Josh (57:55.4) Mm -hmm.
Josh (58:15.029) Mm -hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (58:21.5) That's a problem. And I have another tip of how to rid your body of this too. And then bromide. I mean, this is a tough one because it's hard to get away from. Your carpets, your clothes, your dry cleaning, your furniture. If you live near a golf course. What else? Would you say, Josh? Yeah. Yep. Fire retardant. It's on everything. I mean, God forbid you drink Mountain Dew. It's actually in... It's in some breads.
Josh (58:34.453) fire retardant?
Is that a fire retardant bromide? Okay.
Josh (58:46.323) Yes it is.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (58:48.252) So brominated, right? When you see brominated, then that is bromine being put into something. Not great, not a great idea at all. I don't know who came up with that. But yeah, you want to avoid that as well. So if you avoid those three very, very toxic halogens to your thyroid, that will help. If you add in iodine, that will help even more because iodine is what...
We have a receptor site on our cell for iodine. Unfortunately, fluoride, chlorine, and bromide will attach to that receptor site instead of iodine. If you have enough iodine in your system, it pushes out those toxic halogens so that your body can actually detox and rid itself of those toxic halogens and instead replace it with iodine that helps with T4 to T3 conversion, that helps with autoimmune, that helps with your viral load.
Josh (59:25.778) Hmm.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (59:43.772) that really improves all things, including some even hypothyroid symptoms. So again, that's a over -the -counter, very doable way to improve your detox pathways and your thyroid at the same time.
Josh (59:57.553) And that's easy. Just a couple of quick little fixes that you can take to just give your body the best fighting chance possible. Okay, so two last questions for you, Amy. You mentioned you have a thyroid fixer supplement. What is that? Where can people find it and how can people find you? Because you are a wealth of knowledge. Clearly there's a lot of thyroid stuff out there people need to deal with. What are we looking at here? How can they get the help?
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (01:00:20.956) Thank you. Yes, so my thyroid fixer, not just for people with thyroid problems, if you have weight to lose or energy to gain, you can implement this. And that is on my website at betterlifedoctor .com. That's the supplement website. I have an entire fixer line, but thyroid fixer and metabolism fixer both contain T2. And then if you're interested in chatting about working together on your thyroid, your hormones, you can go to DrAmyHorneman .com, click on the book of call, and...
Book a free application call. This is where we're just talking through, where are you at? What have you done? What have you tried? What hasn't worked? What has worked? And we'll go through all of that together and then figure out which path is right for you to take. So yeah, all of that. And then the Thyroid Fixer podcast is a great place for a ton of information. Josh was on that as well. Super beneficial to my community talking about gut. I loved it. My audience loved it. So you can also find more information there.
Josh (01:01:18.51) Beautiful. Amy, thank you so much. It always blows my mind. I'm glad we ended up doing the second one. I know it was a whole other hour. Thank you so much for coming back. This one I found just really hooked me right in. It was just incredible. So we're gonna make sure this gets out ASAP. I want people to know this, people to hear this. Thank you for your expertise. It's always a pleasure.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (01:01:27.068) Yeah, that's great.
Dr. Amie "The Thyroid Fixer" (01:01:37.212) Thank you, Josh. I appreciate it.