Welcome to The Selling and the Motor Trade Podcast, an association with Simco Training. This is the weekly podcast where we share best practice tips and ideas on how to sell more cars, improve your service department and generally put more profit into your dealership or dealer group. I'm your host, Simon Bogut, and some of you probably already know me as Skippy. I will start with saying thank you for taking the time to listen to this podcast. Hi, welcome to another episode of Selling and the Motor Trade. Today, I'm joined by Brett Wees, if I'm pronouncing that right, and Will Benedicks. Now, I'll get to you these two guys. Hi, guys. How are you, Will? How are you, Brent? Great, Simon. How are you, brother? I'm really excited about this and nervous. You see, I come back from the National Automotive Dealers Association, Las Vegas, probably January February this year. And you go to these conferences and there's a presenter comes up and a kicker and lots of good ideas. I'm scribbling notes down and coming back and I want to talk about all these good ideas too, our dealers and clients. But these guys did something different. Their conversation was all about AI in the dealerships and it was packed. But what they did is they actually got us to build an AI agent, actually do something that would go back and put in place there and then. So, it wasn't just a presentation. It was just a workshop and it really resonated. So, I reached out to the guys that said, hey, listen, you've got to come on the podcast. I want to talk about what you did, how you did it, and I'm embarrassed to tell both you. I wasn't really sure what an AI agent was compared to just AI. So welcome aboard both you. Lovely to be here. Thanks for having us. So, Brent, I'm going to start with you. Okay, you're a certified AI trainer, marketing strategist, idea, meet and plan. How did you first get involved in motor trade? What's your background into automotive marketing, was it? Yeah, real quick, I was a partner at a digital advertising agency here in Toronto. We dealt with a lot of tier one global brands, Dove, Juicy Group, Wrigley's, Hugo Boss, FinTech, but we did get into automotive working originally with Toyota and then Lexus at the tier one in two levels and doing a lot of digital work there. That actually allowed us to really learn the business. We took a lot of that argument and then turned the agency actually into a software incubator that was just servicing the automotive industry. We had a lot of conversations with all three tiers of North American business. There was a lot of work to do, a lot of things to be built. So, we leaned into that pretty heavy and that's 25 years later, I've had the good fortune of working in a lot of different verticals, but automotive is the one that is sort of the constant after we started working with Toyota all those years ago, 25ish years ago, it's been a steady stream since. Cool. So, Will, if I've got this right, you're the operations director at the Proctor dealerships, for the big role, no pressure there, what's your story? How did you get started in the automotive world and I also want to know, how do you two guys meet them? Well, without getting too in depth, remind back in 2002 when I graduated from college and the market wasn't the best and my field wasn't offering a lot of money and my wife was pregnant with our first child and the plan was to go and get my MBA and she said, why don't you just go sell cars for a year? Once I go back to work, you can use that as a springboard go get champagne going to something else. So I went and sold cars for a year and found out I really, really liked it and then I found out the company I worked for is a really good company and decided to make not just a job out of it, but a career out of it and progress through finance, sales manager, compliance officer, a little bit of everything and culminating here is the operations director for our group. So, we're international here, I'm sitting here in the UK at the moment, Will, you're down in Florida, I understand, and we've got Toronto as well, so we are definitely internationally here today. So how did you two guys meet from Canada, Florida, what was the story there? We met, like we were talking a little bit earlier, we met a digital dealer at the conference. They would usually do two a year, one West in Las Vegas and one in Florida on the regular. So Will I think came to one of my early talks and what I always would do in my talks is I always try to involve my audience and make my sessions really interactive. Will was always someone who show up, I think he came to one originally and then if I was down there with sort of our annual thing, we've got to bump into each other. Will would be at the sessions and what I always appreciated about Will being in the room was it was always bringing dealers out of their comfort zone of the conference and making them even do a workbook or exercises or stand up and do things or have fun. Will was always a willing participant to, you know, the BS that I was rolling out of these shows and the stuff I was getting up to but from there we always made time for each other just to, you know, talk about things, you know, kind of grew our relationship that way and I think as AI has evolved, what's been kind of a full circle moment of meeting at a show is I have a very close circle of industry friends and as AI was evolving, we were as a group, we're really talking about it, sharing what we were using, what we were building, what our early experiences were like and I was building these sort of big event, these big events that were happening at conferences like all afternoon events or multi-hour events, these hackathons, these AI hackathons and so Will was one of my early collaborators on that as well with my, when we first rolled that out, had an automotive show and, you know, it's really cool how you can meet people in the industry and not to develop a friendship but develop like a professional coal as a collaborator, you know, I don't have many of them but Will is definitely one now, it only took us 10 years to get there or something. Well again, when you were presenting there, you actually, you know each other very well and you complimented each other very, very well but again, the style, I just love that, let's just go and give the guys something to go back and do and actually not go back and do sorry, do it now in the presentation so they've got something they can go back and use straight, which I love. Now listen, this is a car podcast so I have to ask a question about what's your time favourite car, maybe your best car story, do you remember the first car you sold and I'm going to start with you Will, do you remember the first car you sold because this really separates the true motor traders from the, they're not so dyed in the hard road to traders. How about I remember the first car I didn't sell, way back when I started, during the two week training period, I decided after day four that I was ready, I was going on the floor, I've got this, so took myself on the floor, maybe not with managerial approval but got it on the floor and took the up and walked through it and did the test drive, came back, sat down and she said well that's just too expensive for me and I knew no levers to pull and I had no objection overcoming your training so I said well, sorry we couldn't come to an agreement and that was it. I told my manager what happened who told me in a very loud voice that I would not be doing that anymore that I was to be back in the BDC for the next week and if I ever tried to do that again that was the end of my career and assigned a senior sales consultant to sit over my shoulder and make sure I did everything right and a follow up three months after that, that young lady's father came in and bought a car for me so it was a pretty neat for us to be back a gold V6 Accord that family has bought their 12th car from us as of two years ago. See, even though the car, the gold accord and I love that, we car guys, remember the first car you sold, it just sticks to me forever doesn't it, absolutely does. Now what about your self-friend because I don't, you've probably not sold cars directly, I'm sure you sold plenty of cars through you're trying to, but directly, is that what? Yeah, directly no, but I learned like when I first learned the business when we were starting to engage with Toyota dealers, I would go to some of the dealers businesses kind of on the regular and just ask a lot of questions, learn a lot of things, there was a friend of mine who's long retired now and sold his businesses but I would go and like just greet, like I would go like on a Saturday just hang out and like ask all the dumb questions, what's a Reggie, what's an RO, what's an up, like what are you guys, what's the language you're speaking. So, and it was because he said it at one of our board meetings, like your agency guys never come to our business. So, you know, my old partner Barry Hillier and I really took a point, like really, really took that to heart and made sure what we got out there. We never sold, never sold a vehicle. When I did sell my own, I did sell my own privately online and took a lot of the things I was teaching to, to my, my dealer friends but no, my, I was in my favourite car, like when I, when I first got into snowboarding and I was really serious about it but I love the Chrysler Grand Cherokee Grand, what is the Grand Caravan, like a minivan, I was like a mid-20s or you know mid 20s and I love the Grand Caravan because basically I could load a whole bunch of people and do it all of our snowboard gear and then like halfway through the day I could nap in it, like that, you know, it's like the dumbest thing, like everyone's like, you know, I like this Mercedes, I like this sports car, I like this coupe and I'm like, just, just give me a Grand Caravan if I got to, if I got to do something, I've never owned it, I didn't ever own it, I only rented them for snowboarding but I always thought they were kind of badass. That's cool. Can I just expand on what you said before? Because your presentation style, okay, you use lots of comedy in the presentation, you get involved, and I love when you just said that and just clicked where you actually had a dealer that said, your agency guys don't come to the dealership. Do you think that's where you learned to know the dealers so well? Because, let's be honest, we're talking about AI now. Some people might see it as very intimidating. Do you find that spending time on the shop floor, spending so much time there, did that really help your presentation style? Yeah, 100% and you know, I had the good fortune or not just works like working with dealers on the retail side. I actually was like an agency member of like a parts and service board with Toyota dealers for a little bit too. I really got to understand all the different personalities and the different things but the reason why I evoke so much humour with what I'm doing is one, if I'm not making myself or the person I'm presenting with Will, if we're not having fun, if we can't laugh at what we're doing then why are we doing it? But most importantly, if we can make it light and we can keep it fun and laugh during the session, it actually just removes a lot of barriers because there's a lot of ego and there's a lot of, oh yeah, there's a lot of ego and anxiety both, right? Like there's a lot of healthy ego and there's a lot of healthy anxiety in the business and a lot of people come into the room to learn something new. You know, no one wants to be vulnerable so let's just have fun with it. So, if I can bring some humour and some fun into things then it removes all those barriers and we can actually get into the learning that we want to do. Do you find the ego? Almost, they don't want to admit that, hey, I don't know this stuff. I'm running this business. I mean, well, you've got how many employees working for you and I need to know this stuff and it's like, you've got to break down and say, this is a safe space and I found your style was very good to open up. It was a safe space and for me to admit, I don't know what an AI agent is. I'm not the only person you've trained in the last 12 months who didn't know what an agent was. No, but I'll talk to Will first on the ego thing, you know, to be about people like being hesitant on what they want to learn. Like, Will, if you want to touch on that because you're on the floor with it, you know, you have multiple stores and multiple managers. From the time I was in school to the time I got in the dealership, I was always of the mind that if I didn't know what they were talking about or if I didn't understand it, I was just going to raise my hand and I didn't care about getting embarrassed because chances are there's at least two or three more people in the room that have the same question as me and they're just too nervous. And as my wife put it, I don't know how to be embarrassed. So, I will just raise my hands and ask. One of the things that I love about our organization is the education part of it. From the top down, we are big believers in education makes you a better employee, makes you a better sales consultant and it makes the buying experience better. It's part of the reason I really get along with Brent. When you go in, Brent explains, but he doesn't talk. He explains the entirety with his hands, with you involved, with people. He gives you the chance to ask questions how to move forward. So, we start all of our training sessions internally just like that with the understanding that there are people there that are not going to be up to the same level. So, take the time to explain it. If they've heard it before, that's fine. We'll go through it again. Everybody needs refresher. It's been my directive for 25 years now. Like I said, I would go to my old friends, Toyota store, but it was this back and forth because they would be sitting in a room hearing about retargeting cookies or responsive design websites. The dealers are always having a lot of tech and a lot of jargon thrown at them. And they would lean in and go, what's your partner talking about? And I said, he spent the last 90 minutes explaining that we have to make the website fit on a phone. Right? Like it's just like I, I, you know, bless my old partners. It's hard. Like he's a very, he's a very, very brilliant person, but he could get on a tangent in the whole room. It's like we have no idea what he's talking about, but nobody's going to put up their hand to go, yeah, I don't know what you're talking about. But those whispers were like the, I'm going to tell you what it is because you're teaching me about your business. So, I'm going to make sure I demystify the technology for you. That's always been an undercurrent of how I presented and what I, what I approach these are. And especially with AI, anytime new tech comes out, you know, we can keep moving after this. But the hesitancy to raise your hand and go, like if you're not Will, who doesn't care. But there's a lot of, there's a lot of ego, fragile. Yeah, like I said, a lot of fragile, like a lot of healthy ego and healthy anxiety, which leads to fragility. You don't want to put up your hand and you're going to miss something by just going, like I don't, I don't know. And at any time if you do that, any educator or any speaker is happy to stop and go, let's break this down. Because as Will said, you've just asked the question probably for over half of the room that's already in their head. And you're making a safe space, an absolute safe space. Yes, Will, your hands are far away. How would you define an agent? How would I define an agent? Basically, an agent in the best way I can, the best way I can do it for the podcast is if you've got, if you've got a prompt that works for you, and like what we said in the, what we said in the room was, you know, you write a prompt into your chat GPT or your Gemini or whatever. And it does doesn't exercise for you. It presents output, gives you your answers, gives you outlines, gives you thought starters, whatever it is you're building. An agent is a way of taking that, taking those prompts that work really well for you and putting it in its own little box, which then builds an automation that you can do again and again without repasting and rebuilding these big prompts into your chat. Now you've got a little bot that just like a little robotic piece of coding that now is just running that exercise for you over and over again. So, if it's podcast questions at Simon's building, like Simon can upload a prompt to go, you know, here's a great, you know, Simon's got a big prompt that he builds for his questions. But instead of doing that, he could build an agent which takes kind of all that best intel and then puts it in a, in a like a repeatable, repeatable box. So, the agent will actually go off and do things by itself without you having to tell at each stage. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And certainly, just to finish off that point about, there's no dumb questions. I listened to the podcast recently, I think it was diary over CEO and it was a great thing a CEO said on this that when someone asked the question, okay, he'll turn around and say to the other board members, you know what, that's a really good question Sarah. David, can you answer it? Because very quickly, he'd realized that, hold on, it's not just Sarah didn't know it, it's the other people around there. And he says, he doesn't do it in a nasty way, he makes it a safe space to ask these questions. Because it's, well, you are unique, so you can't be embarrassed. But in the motor trade, we do find lots of people seeing your measures, they, they feel like it's a weakness almost to say they don't know these things, which, and it's, it's, it's rare, isn't it? It is rare. We can boil that down to I'm just a nerd and I like to understand it. Well, one of the best explanations I heard from an agent was if you think about AI capabilities now, there are certain people that think, oh, this is just a new way of Googling, this is just a new way of getting an answer. But really, it's a way of taking the entire internet and making it more accessible. I mean, that was the idea behind AI and what they can really do right now. So, what an AI can do is scales knowledge. You ask a question; knowledge is now scalable. An agent scales the execution of that knowledge. So, you've got a database, but an agent is an actionable execution of the knowledge you can get from AI was one of the best explanations I heard from an agent is. Yeah, I love that. I love that. So, can you talk through what you got to actually do in the conference? Because people have not been to an idea. There's something like, I don't know, 20,000 dealers from around the world there. There's lots of different breakout groups there. And these people are looking to spend lots of money with vendors. And one of these shows, you want to find out who's the good vendors, who's the bad vendors. So can one of you just talk us through the agent you actually got us to build, how we used it in real world and how, what we actually did. Who wants to pitch that question up? Do you want me to run? Are you ready? Okay, are you sure? You want to go? I am positive because I spent most of the first part of that meeting trying not to throw up from nervousness. Okay, I pulled the wheel and now it's a big stage for Will. So, Will and I did what we told NADA was, we said, we actually want to build a hands-on session. Like I said, everything I do is interactive. So, and with NADA, it's very interesting because you have a 45 minute time slot to do these sessions. They want you to be done in about 35 minutes. So, you open up 10 minutes for conversation. So, the challenge was us too. We were on the second day that the Expo was open. We were on Thursday late in the afternoon. So, by the time dealers came in to see us, they had two full days on the Expo floor looking at all these new products, looking at everyone, pasting AI to everything. So, we, our goal was is that we were going to teach dealers two things, live in class, and they were going to do it with us. They were going to build; they were going to learn how to do right framework prompting. And we'll talk about that in a minute. So, they were going to learn how to do RIPE framework prompting. And then they were going to learn how to take that prompt and turn it into an agent that basically takes that information. It creates an automation, like a repeatable process. And we were going to do that in 35 minutes. And the structure, the subject of the prompt was going to be how to evaluate vendors for their claims of AI, proprietary AI, or powered by AI. So, we showed the dealers in the room how to take right framework prompt, which is role instructions, parameters, and exceptions, and flesh that out into a really big prompt. We gave them the prompt so they could, we gave it to them ahead of time. We didn't make them right from scratch because of time. But this way they could go, okay, you've just been on the Expo floor for two days. You maybe you're setting up some demos that you're going to come out of the show with. We're going to give you an evaluation prompt that you can plug in any URL or any collateral that you got received from a dealer from a vendor. And then it can give you a full briefing of their claims. It can give you prep questions, hand-waving guides, red flags, anything that's important. So, when they come into their dealership, you're armed with a full audit of their capabilities, what's public, what they put out there publicly about the product. It gives you everything that you need, but not just the questions you want to ask in those demos, but the answer you should expect back. Then what I did was I handed that off the will and will gave them the simple steps to then move that into that agent build in those accounts. And we did it in, I think, 32 minutes. And eight countries were represented. I think Simon and you were there, but there was like eight different countries represented. So, we had a lot of different people translating into their little groups and their little pods. But we had a lot of people were doing it on their phones, people were doing it on their laptops. But it was chaotic, but it was super fun. And it was so relevant because you write about every company out there, they just put AI at the end of their name. And I'm exaggerating slightly here, but there was like a pinnacle as a DMS system. And it's like pinnacle AI. It's kind of like car washing AI, key tracker AI. There wasn't any business there. I'm going to see Starbucks AI. But it's one of those things that was something that people could use there and then. So, I really enjoyed that side of it. And then also you showed us the RIPE framework. Could you just run through that and how that might help people? Because I'm what you would call Will, would you call me a lazy prompter? Can you run through the RIPE? Yeah, I'll run through it real quick and I'll throw it will because I know Will kind of jumped on it after I started teaching it. So, after I certified, RIPE framework is just a lazy prompt. I call people like call us. I call us all. We're all guilty of it. We're all lazy prompters. And a lazy prompt is when you pick up your phone and you open up your chat, you put your Gemini, you go, you know, help me do this thing. I was talking to a dealer buddy of mine. And I said, read me the laziest prompt you wrote last week on your phone, like in your chat. He's like, help me make my website better. Like that's a lazy prompt. Like there's no context. There's no information. And yes, your, you know, your account is saving information. But if your whole, if your whole thing has just been lazy inputs, then you've got seas and reams of like just answers and junk, right? Because AI has done this thing where you can put in something simple and all of this information comes back. But what I try to teach with RIPE framework is the more contextual and modular you write a prompt, your, your accuracy of what comes back in the output is better. And we, we, too often we use AI for the answer quickly instead of going, let's, let's frame up the problem and let's frame up other things we can do with this rather than what is quick answer. So RIPE framework is a way of actually, you know, kind of attacking a prompt, working with an AI tool. And everything you write, you write it in the, in the aspect of role is our RIPE instructions, parameters and exceptions. And that is that framework of, you know, the instructions part is easy, because you know, like, help me build this social media content calendar, help me build a new employee onboarding manual, like that the instructions are the simple part. But role is, is really where you, you know, you really wanted to find, give the AI, give the AI a role to play. It loves having a role to play. You know, you're, you're an expert copywriter, you're a senior data analyst, like any number of things you can build into your role. The instructions, like I said, are straightforward parameters are where you get into the meat of things like, how do you want an output? What sort of structure do you want? Is there a word count on that like output? Are you writing something long for him? Is that and then exceptions are based on maybe different HR things you're maybe using or writing a prompt for there could be like, you know, make sure you follow state law on this or, you know, don't use these terms. Like there's all, there's different things to do. But RIPE framework makes you actually stop and move through the steps of really briefing the AI to understand and in the more it can, like the more you give it, you're going to get more targeted outputs back. Will you want to talk about that a little bit? Can I jump in there as well? We'll be. Oh, sorry. Yeah. So real world stuff. So, listen, on this, I was nervous about this beforehand because I normally know that the people that we're interviewing a bit about the business so forth. I see you for 38 minutes now. I thought it was longer than that. Okay. I built this AI agent. I had my phone. I was trying to do it on phone, not a laptop because I didn't listen to instructions to bring my laptop with me. Okay. That was something I should have done. Okay. So, to actually get some of these questions, I was a lazy proctor. I went to chat TBT. I said, I need some questions for you two guys. Give me 25 questions. Okay. For the selling motor trade podcast, I click the little button that says deep research and it just pops up with it. How could I have made that better? Because that's probably a lazy prompt, right? What could I do? Pretty much. So, I mean, that's a, that's a great question. Think of AI as an employee. I think too much in dealerships and all aspects of lives, we think of AI as an answer all or something that is going to increase efficiencies. It's really not. It's really part of a process just like a person is part of our process. So, all car guys here, think like a sales manager. You have a new sales consultant. He comes into your room. You want all the information so you can structure the deal. That's all you're doing when you write a RIPE framework prompt. But you have to be really specific from the start until you get that AI or that agent somewhat trained. So new sales person comes in and you're like, no, no. What are they trying to achieve? Try telling a new sales person that they want to buy the car. Okay. Have you looked at the trade? Do they owe any money on the trade? Is the payment good? Where are they trying to get down to? And then they just come back in and they say, well, they want the payment lower and yes, they have a trade because you didn't say, find out what they liked about the trade. You didn't say find out where do they want the payment? You didn't ask them how exactly are they titled it? So, then they come back and they say they're telling it in both names. He wants 10,000 dollars for the trade and he wants a payment of 350. But you didn't say what those both names were, where exactly they want it titled. He didn't get all the information right. So, if you look at writing that prompt, like you would have to instruct her on board a new employee. And then you apply that RIPE framework to it. It makes it a lot easier because now you've got the outline right in front of you. So, imagine if you can sell to an employee role, you are now our lease specialist instructions. I want you to go out there and I want you to inform this customer about what the difference between a lease and a payment is include what money factors come to include with residual is include how the payment is formed. Your parameters are going to be keep them within this type of budget. This is the car. This is the dominant buying motive. This is the information you want to put back on me and don't do these things and do these things. And then it just goes in there and does that. That's what an agent can do. And that's where a RIPE framework really comes into play because it reminds us every time a sales manager, we know what we're looking for. You have a sales consultant that's been out there for a while. They know how to bring it back. But an agent's brand new and a prompt is brand new every time. So as long as you give it all the information, it will not fail. But it's up to you to make sure that that information is the correct one. So, give it that role, give it that instruction, give it that parameters, give it the examples and the exclusions. And you're going to get a successful result instead of them running back and forth to the desk. But that's a health person. And once the sales person's got that, they're coming back to you and says, yeah, I know this. It's actually they want this budget over that term. This is what they're trading. Okay, I'll need to get to that one. But it takes a while to get that guy there. And your 10 year excellent sales consultant is your agent. Yeah. So, role though. So again, Brent, I have to tell it though, I want you to think like a podcasting researcher needs to know that to start with. So, I should do that there and then decide. Then help me, help me outline questions for these guests. You know, you're going to plug in maybe in the, you know, in your instructions, you know, go to proper dealerships, go to IDME plan.com. You know, you're going to fill in more like, as we'll said, more context. It's almost like you're building the personas around. This is what these two people are like one of the things people forget to do, especially in the automotive business where they're prompting is they forget to put personas in. Like there's, there's a ton of buyer personas. There's a ton of service customer personas just like on podcasters, a bunch of different guest personas. So, you plug that in and then in your, then in your parameters, like, you know, your, the parameters on that would probably be kind of light because you're, you're using AI to start to brainstorm and outline on these questions that you, Simon, have the subject matter expertise then to take them out and go, okay, I'm going to reorganize. I'm going to, I'm going to wordsmith. So, I'm going to shorten some. But the point of the parameters on that is to go, you know, parameters, your parameters for this could say like, you know, we're, we're going to, we're just going to, you know, keep the questions here. Let's keep, let's, you know, let's work on questions so that they have shorter answers than what Brent's doing now on this answer. There's, there's just all kinds of different things and the exceptions at the back are, you know, stay away, like in this conversation, if we're just talking about, you know, RIPE frameworks and the native thing, you know, stay away from, you know, coding or, or, or deeper dives into, you know, how far AI can go. The different things, but if you can, you know, prompt in, I'll say this so you have it in the recording, but prompt for the prompt. So, you can actually say to your chat GBT account, help me build a prompt using RIPE framework, you have to spell it out role instructions parameters and exam and exceptions to help me do the following, right? And then you put in whatever you're working on, I'm building questions, Will's building an employee handbook, whatever that looks like. And then at the end of that prompt, you say, just give me the prompt, not the output. So now you're teaching yourself, you're using AI to help, help build, but you're also training it. So, you can prompt to get that prompt out. And that way you'll see the parameters and exceptions because those are two areas that most people don't add into their, their prompts when they're working. Yeah, you said to someone before, what's your shortest prompt? Okay, make my website better. I just picked my phone, I've flipped through chat there, some of my prompts and I talked to it now. And last one I said is, I need five good restaurants in Dublin. Okay, that's a lazy prompt, isn't it? Five good restaurants, but yeah, and that's, that's a side of AI that's great in those cases, right? Give me five good restaurants in Dublin. But I've done that too, right? Like, but here's the thing, like, my partner leases a foodie and she'll go, give me, give me the, give me five great restaurants in Dublin that have Michelin star or have a bit gourmand rating, right? Like, what's all the extra? What's a smaller, like less than 50 seats, more intimate, more this, because they're just like, AI, if you say, give me five restaurants in Dublin, it's just going to scrape Reddit. It's just going to scrape the web and give you, you know, here's, you know, and that we'll talk about. Yeah, but you could, yeah, you know, like, well, you could give you anything, right? But if you dig into it, like writing prompts and getting more granular, like I said, contextual and modular are the way to kind of think about it. Yeah, right. I absolutely love that approach. So how long should a prompt be then? So, they're going to be a lot longer if you're telling me not to be lazy. Yeah, how long should a word count be? Well, it, it does depend. When I was first training to, to teach, we were taught, like, your prompt should be a minimum of 450 words. And, you know, all the, I was part of the CEO group. We were all kind of scoffing at that, because I was like, I write, I've written for industry publications and automotive. I was like, Brian, just give us 800 or 1000 words. And you're saying, write half an article to get something out. But that's how we were trained. And I usually drop that on audience as well when I go, this is how much stuff you really should be putting in there. Like there's no, and it's true. There's no way you're going to get a dealership person to write 450 words. But the trick is, is like, you have all of that in your collateral. Like, so you have an about us section, like if you're writing a big prompt, and you wanted to make sure it covers your brand voice, it's like copy and paste your about us section into that prompt. It's, it's also about like the tools are smarter now. Like when I was doing this, like, the functionality between then and now is crazy. But, you know, when you think about the stuff that, you know, pasting in information into prompts is always going to work better than trying to attach documents, because it has to convert documents. It has to do all the synthesis with documents still. But if you write a RIPE framework prompt, and like I said, prompt for the prompt, it's going to do all of the work for you. It's going to give you something nice and big. And then you may go, oh, I'm going to, I'm going to copy and paste this thing about our service. You know, we'll, we'll can also share about that about what pieces of collateral from Proctor, he can pull into something. So, it's not about what you're actually physically like writing, it's about thinking smarter and making the tool still do all the work. But there, there's so much stuff in your brochures and your websites and other collateral like, like, you want to touch on it. It's back to Will's brand new sales person. He's been through the induction day. So, he knows it's a fourth generation business. Okay, he knows it's Honda and Subaru, because it's been through that. So, they don't have to go through that again. That's what we talk about really, isn't it? Yeah, I'm not just saying there's no right or wrong to it. And there's no limit. But if you walk away with something, and if you look at like, if you put more effort into it, you're probably going to see an accuracy output. That's a lot closer to what you're looking for, which then even makes you like, has you spent less time in the tool? Because AI loves to bring you down that path of like, let's create our own adventure. Like, hey, that that's really great, Will. Do you want to build a colouring book for this now? Right? Like everything you do in AI is fantastic. And AI just wants to applaud you for it and then suggest more crap. And then if you're doing that, all of a sudden, you're 45 minutes later in the same conversation going, wait a minute, I just needed like a new HR dress code policy. And now I've got like, you know, whatever's come out of it, if you allow it, if you just mindlessly go through its suggestions, because you haven't prompted a lot, like I just, I think that the aha moments are put in a lazy prompt, like make my website better, and then build a RIPE prompt around doing the same exercise, and you're going to get cleaner. Yeah, I just asked chat GPT what my average prompt length is. Yeah, 1,853 words per prompt. Wow. Then I went then I went back and I looked at how much of that is copied and pasted in. And we tried to filter that out and it's coming up with 380 is my average prompt if you take out the copy and paste, they be pasted in areas is fantastic. What better way to give it the flavour of what you're looking for than going to a source material that you want it to mirror and putting it in. I mean, that's so much more than I could do with another 500 words. And will are you doing that every time or is it learning that it knows your tone of voice, it knows your business, it knows what we'll want. That's a really good question. Yes, it does learn and it does get to know your voice, but not to the extent an agent would, because an agent is so directed that you can successfully prompt an agent with a sentence or two, but yeah, it most definitely does learn you, especially if you take the time to configure the AI. I mean, you can go when you first start using AI, you should configure it and you should go from there, but it's funny. I have a work usage chat TPT account and a home usage chat TPT account just for some concerns with data privacy. I forgot that I hadn't had my home usage one as long as I've had the work usage one. So, I go in and I type a prompt and I'm like, well, that's not what I was expecting it to send those out. It doesn't know me as well. Yeah, yeah, of course it does that. Okay, yeah, I love that. So, who should we be looking for? Is it chat TPT? Is it Claude? A different one's better for different things. I must admit my son raves about Claude, but he gets at writing programs and writing websites and stuff like that for him. And he's 19. I use chat TPT like a glorified Google account at the moment. What's better for you? Formula one car is better. Yeah, that's very easy. I mean, that's Oscar's car at the moment, because he really has the next clause a bit more of an artist personally. I think Claude is a good job with writing and with some of the art projects. I think that Gemini is a better researcher. But of course, it's been built by Google. I think chat GPT is more of a jack of all trades, but I'm biased. It's the first one I used. It's the one I'm used to. It's your first car. It's the one you keep going back to. And I think co-pilot is more task orientated and agentic. But again, I don't, I think all of them can be better at certain points in it. Brent, what would you say? Yeah, they've all got different things. Like I, you know, honestly, I don't I don't prefer one or the other. If I'm if I'm doing my own work right now, like I have to have I have to have an account of each because I train on it. So, if I walk into like a dealership and they're like we're on co-pilot or we're a cloud store or Gemini, I have to I have to be working in all of them. I jump around. I would probably say like to will point my mains are I jump between my Gemini account and my cloud account. There's just some things that they both do that I find a little bit more streamlined. I still will always love that chat GPT has projects. So, you can really organize your work and chat GPT and projects really cleanly and quickly. Their codecs isn't too bad. But again, it's at the level that the industry is at as a whole. The average, it doesn't like to Will's point. It doesn't really matter. I think you've got to get about. I think you'll find that if you're really get your literacy up about a year and then you start being a little bit more picky about what you use and how you use it. But getting your framework prompting down and building agents and just getting the understanding of how these can work, then you sort of level up like with the with the time you have in doing different things. And some of them are, like you said, your son uses Claude and Claude's super popular right now because of its intuitiveness. But I think it's just it right now for if you're if you're getting your literacy down and you're getting your chops up; one won't make a difference for you until you get that down. Okay, can we get some quick wins for let's say someone's listening this in in a dealership and let's break it down three different things. So, the sales department, maybe a sales person there, some quick wins there. Will maybe in the service department and Britain, I'll probably come back to you on the marketing side of it. So, who wants to take the sales department? So, I'm a salesperson. Listen to this now. Will what's a quick win? I can go back after listening this podcast. I can reach out and go back into put in pretty much straight away. Absolutely. And I'm going to separate this real quickly into a subcategory of questions, because there are some great wins out there. There's some great efficiencies afforded by AIs that are offered through, you know, different outlets, different companies. But I'm going to go with just personal usage AIs like Claude or Chet GPT. If you're sending out a communication to a customer, and you very quickly wash that through a Chet GPT, and you have a you don't even have to have an agent bill, but as long as you can prompt, check this for completeness, check this for this, this is what I'm trying to portray to the customer. And you take the two minutes it takes to wash that through; you can take that communication that's going out and make it a six out of 10 into a seven or an eight out of 10 very quickly getting out to the customer, especially if it understands the intent and what the communications have looked like before, especially if it is a nonverbal communication. If a person's across from you, 90% of communication is nonverbal. This is a text or an email. AI can really shine in making that more specific, more directed towards what they're trying to find out. And it's very quick to do so. Yeah. Okay. Love that. And that is really on the sales side of it. Every time you could just do that straight away. Yes. Very easily. Okay. What about the after sales side of it? I suppose there's communication there as well, they could do that. Any other quick wins on the after, sorry, after sales, the service side of fixed operations side, but got you fixed operations. I've personally side note, I think that the next NADAs, the next couple of NADAs, the amount of AI companies out there is going to be very heavily to the service side, because that's where I see a lot of potential for AI to come in. And the reason being on the sale side, our entire job is to talk to customers. I mean, that's what goes down to the relationships. On the sales side, or I'm sorry, on the service side, there doesn't seem to be as much of that. And there's a lot of communication loss as much as we lack our lingo on the sale side. There's a lot of communication loss from a service advisor to a customer. And a lot of us are very visual orders. If you were to do that same thing, but wash it through with instead of, hey, you've got a code P0017, which means your MAF is out. So, we need to replace your air filter. If you could have them just wash that through very quickly and break that down to what it actually means, what they normally look for, and what the recommendations are just very quickly and say that to the customer instead. Well, what that means is in your airbox, there's this sensor that's running at 24% capacity. Now, it's just enough to bring it into the yellow, but we believe if you do that, according with this, you could see this, which would lead to this better result, which would save you this in the future. It's very easy to do that through an AI. It's much easier to go out and talk to the customer instead of that P0071 code. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with the after sale side of it because you see so many videos where technicians done a video on the car that goes through to the customer. And you write about that jargon. Okay. Your tires actually got two millimetres on it. And we could have an AI saying, hey, this is what the technician has seen. This is why it's occurred. This is the outcome if you don't fix it. And this is what they recommend and actually put it in. So, jargon and technicians to have because let's be honest, technicians want to fix cars. They don't want to be Hollywood actors in front of a video sometimes or want to be seen as a salesperson, but they are the right people to explain it and have the credibility. So, I agree with you. I think there's going to be a huge increase in that size of the business. Yeah. Yeah. Brent, what about the marketing side of it? Do you want to pick that up any quick wins in the marketing side? Yeah, sure. Quick win for any marketer out there. Because of the 30 day cycle that every dealership is in and for the marketing people, it can be super insane and they get caught up in their own hamster wheel of just getting assets to market and offers out to market. A lot of times what really bogs them down is they start waiting to be told what to get out into market or to be directed by leadership. Like they may wait for someone like Will to go, hey, Will, what do you want? What do you think we should have in market? AI is a great equalizer for those who actually have the chops and really bring like a good smart game to a dealership, but like I said, that 30 day window is crazy. So, you can use AI to really get ahead of your planning the way you want to pitch your own work because a marketing team inside a dealership, if there's multiples of them, if there's two or three people, they should be thinking and acting like an agency anyways. So, what AI can help a team do is use it to start pre-planning quarters ahead, right? Like if you're we're in Q2 now, we're two weeks into Q2, like let's start getting a Q3, Q4 plan together and use AI to help you plan, help you write the briefs around what you already know, the historical programs that may be in market because every OEM has them, you've got to blend that in, you've got to blend the insights that you're getting from the store. So that's why I say the market. The quick wind is start to use it to plan ahead and get your pitches ready because people like Will and Don and Megan over at the group that in leadership, if the marketing team's coming in like an agency going, this is what we have for like our just our base structure, the guts of what we want to do. And of course, we're going to know different things as we get closer to these quarters. But this is what we want to get out into market from a foundational standpoint. And then once those things are in place, that marketing team can use those same conversations with the AI again, to then, you know, because you know, we start using it going, hey, write me copy for this, write me ad copy, help me do some graphics and things like that. But really from a marketing standpoint, like start using it to synthesize like the big work of like, what do the briefs look like? What does the pitch look like? What does the what does the big plan look like? And even from roles and responsibilities inside and outside of the like workback schedules of things that could happen, like it, there's so much stuff that the marketing teams never really find the time to slow down and stop and do like I would do inside if I was working for Toyota or Hugo Boss or Wrigley's like, that's all the shit we had to do as an agency. And if the marketers see that they can use the same thing, they're not waiting to be asked to get stuff in the market, they're being proactive. Yeah, love that. Love that. That just leaves me to say that all details of this episode and other episodes on the selling in the motor trade can be found on our website, simcotraining.co.uk. Go there to get a copy of our book, Words That Sell Cars. Go there to sign up to a free trial of our sales fitness online sales training program. Easiest way to get hold of me is sign and bokeh through LinkedIn. Thank you.