Welcome back.
Our guest today is Larry Otto, owner of the Winery
at Holy Cross Abbey down in Cañon City.
Larry, thanks for coming in and being on the show today.
Thanks for having me, Doug.
Absolutely. So,
you're a Jersey guy.
Let's talk about the journey and tell our listeners about
you know, not only the winery at Holy Cross Abbey,
but you've got a great background of how you even got into the wine business.
Well, it's crazy, right?
I mean, I've been here.
I'm in my 20th year, right?
I was doing this and prior to me acquiring the winery,
I was a partner in an accounting firm in New York City.
I lived in New Jersey and and worked for the same firm for 23 years.
Worked my way up through the ranks, became a partner.
I'd been a partner for a number of years.
And, I can't say I woke up one day and said, I want to own a winery.
But the industry was changing. The commute was
getting to me, the congestion
was getting to me, the climate was getting to me.
And so I went on a journey to find a place that I wanted to,
to really live and invest in the community
and own my own shop. So,
I went through that process and it was kind of miraculous that it
that it pulled together through some able networking.
I got put in contact with a gentleman that went to the
the boarding school down there, the.
Oh yeah. Okay.
And was on the,
the board of directors for this winery that they got opened in 2002.
And we started chatting and, and I put a proposal together and
utilizing skills that I, that I acquired over 23 years
in public accounting work. Yeah.
Working with those clients.
And, I was able to get a transaction, put together
some SBA backed financing, and, here we are 20 years later.
You know,
you and I know each other, and we both are East Coast people.
And one of the things that we've,
you know, have in common is that, for those who are listening
and wondering about us Coloradans out here, how did we get here?
I, too, had, like, an awakening on the Beltway
one day in Washington DC like
McCartney was on the radio.
He was singing too many people.
I've heard that song so many times.
And I thought to myself, you know what?
This, the gridlock, all this is, there's got to be another place.
So for those of you, we're not looking to invite everybody to move to Colorado.
But it is a special place.
I mean, so it's it's just neat when you get a chance
to to talk about, becoming an entrepreneur.
And, you know, you, you left the, the comforts
and in some of the inconveniences of, of living
in the New York area and coming out here. So,
you took a big, big pivot.
And because you have an accounting mind, I'm wondering, like,
did you have a background in wine or how did you learn about wine?
Just a passion just for for drinking it and experiencing it with food.
The, the whole pairing aspect.
You know, I'm, I do all the cooking in my household.
And so,
I have a, you know, a real passion for, for doing that as well.
So, you know, so I had learned about wine.
I fell in love with wine.
I read about wine and what I really wanted to do
as an accountant was to get my wine built up.
Have it paid for by the government.
Through tax deductions.
Yes. So, yeah. No. In your book. Right.
No. The laws.
And so you know, I had
I had looked at other craft beverage industries as well.
Beer distilling and wine was really an area that I had the most interest in.
And I have to say that, I mean, the opportunity
I wasn't looking specifically for a winery to acquire.
Yeah, I was looking for a shop that
I wanted to own and be part of a community with.
But the fact that this winery showed up on the radar and.
Yeah, to to to get it was pretty, pretty fascinating.
Well, and you know, for for listeners, particularly if you're not from Colorado,
people tend to think of Colorado and you think about beer.
I mean, we are known for beer and Denver and and there's a there's a lot of places,
Colorado wines
are are a bit of a surprise to people.
I mean, the, you know, the Palisades and the western slope
of Colorado is where much of the fruit comes from.
And different things for for our Colorado wines.
But you are really one of the few wineries,
here in the Pikes Peak region.
And, and so let's, let's let listeners know a couple things before
we get into the history of the Abbey, tell people,
you know, where are you physically located, like
where Cañon City is compared to Colorado Springs and Denver and everything else.
So they know the location of what we're talking about.
Well, the winery as you mentioned is located in Cañon City.
It's on the eastern side of Cañon City, which is an hour,
southwest of where we are right now in Colorado Springs.
It's the it's the
point where the Arkansas River goes through the famous royal gorge.
Right.
So it's a it's, it's really a,
it's a gateway to the, to the Rocky Mountains.
Yeah.
It's kind of nestled in there
between the Sangre de Cristo and the Wet Mountains.
And it's, it's got that river that runs through the Royal Gorge
and then which of course continues west, east towards Kansas, but.
Yeah, but yeah, just basically an hour or hour away from here
when we talk a lot about,
people who come, whether they live here
or they're coming to visit, they'll, they'll often put itineraries together.
And so as we talk about the Abbey and Holy Cross and everything else,
we we will want listeners to be be sure.
And weave in
a day trip
two days what you can else you can be doing in the kind of spoke
and hub system of a lot of people
who will maybe stay in Colorado Springs, but they'll look to do things.
So we'll talk a little bit about that as we as we wind up.
But let's talk about the Holy Cross Abbey winery
for people who have not been there.
Talk a little bit about the history.
Well, the winery is located on the historic property
at Holy Cross Abbey, and it was a working, Benedictine
monastery for several years.
It was built in 1925, 1925,
and then, it had
that boarding school operating from 1925 to 1985.
In its heyday in the 50s and 60s, there was upwards of
90 monks living and working there, had 250 students,
international, some, some
famous, you know, domestic.
Okay, you know, products as well, people that were there local, but,
you know, just a boarding school.
So it was it was pretty fascinating, operation there for a number of years.
The winery sits where the arts and crafts,
building. Yeah. Okay.
And then the production facility was actually the auto shop.
So the winery started while it was still a boarding school or not?
It was not.
It was not. Yeah.
So the boarding school closed in 1985. Okay.
And there were fewer and fewer monks residing at the monastery.
And they were trying to figure out their way forward.
Right.
The monastery property that, that how many acres? 180 acres.
180 acres. Yeah.
So in, in 2000, believe it or not,
one of the
monks there, Father Paul Montez, was called over to palisade
to perform an exorcism on a, on a winery that was being built out.
Oh, wow.
So the owner,
of the winery, you know, was experiencing all kinds of construction issues.
Yeah, falling foul smells and stuff like that.
And he was.
He was convinced that he needed an exorcism.
And so through Bishop Defoi in Pueblo, they contacted, one of the monks there.
Okay. Specialty in exorcisms. Yeah.
And he went out there and performed the exorcism.
And by all accounts, that was successful. All right.
But while he was out there, the monk fell in love with the Colorado wine industry.
He's going to the grape vines growing along the -
Yeah, the Colorado River. Sure like that.
And he was he was convinced that, there could be a successful winery,
you know, at at their property there in Cañon City.
Okay.
They planted some vines.
They recruited a couple out of California to come and built a build
a winery, build the, the tasting room, and they got it open in 2002.
In 2002. Okay.
And you have been there over 20 years.
20 years.
So in 2005.
Yeah, I acquired at the end of 2005. Okay.
And so at that
time it was three years old. And,
how many varieties of wines were
because you're, you're using grapes from right there, some some.
Okay. But when you even when you first started.
Yes. Okay.
Okay. Yeah. They had planted some Chardonnay.
They planted some Riesling.
There. It's you know quite frankly it's
a horrible place in town to try to grow grapes.
That's where all the frost accumulates.
Not not great windbreaks.
It doesn't have that nice microclimate that you get from the river.
Yeah.
So there are grapes being grown in the region.
Not a lot grown on our property.
We we source primarily from Palisade, from Palisade and other regions.
Okay, okay.
So now, you buy it in 2005?
Probably not that well known
outside of maybe Canyon City at that point.
I imagine that the that the monks were, you know, being good at what
they were doing, but they may not have in the folks from California.
You had you certainly had challenges,
in, in terms of marketing and, and,
and what's it like to find, labor in, in to, to work in a winery?
How how's that work?
Well, it would work much better
if I was really located within a wine producing region. Yes.
Yeah.
Or even palisade, for that matter. Yeah.
Not a it's highly specialized.
And there's not a lot of people that have, beverage manufacturing experience.
Sure. So it's hard. It's a challenge.
But yeah, you know, we try to lean on other industries,
you know, at the, you know, Cañon City, the Royal Gorge Region, the
Arkansas River is a great place for rafting.
Commercial rafting. Yeah.
And we've had great success with hiring people out of the rafting industry.
As they get older and they start feeling the aches and pains of being on the river.
Sure.
And they're looking for a more stable, secure, profession and career.
And so we've had a lot of success hiring from that group.
Awesome. That that makes a lot of sense.
So let's talk about the experience for for visitors.
And, coming down, coming into the winery.
Let's talk about the experience
starting with like the tasting room and what are some of your,
top sellers that people should know to to come down and try?
Well, it's a great property to visit.
Yeah. It's very peaceful, very serene, very pastoral.
Plenty of parking. That's great. Plenty of parking.
Yeah, a great lawn.
People can come down and have picnics and, you know, we don't charge for the space.
Yeah, but for the most part, when people visit, they have the option
to either, go for, flights.
A sampling of our different wines, or they can,
reserve in advance for a VIP which comes with some charcuterie items.
Most of our tasting is done outside on a beautiful patio or covered veranda.
And we can we do that year round? Yeah.
Because we, we have it partially enclosed and heated for the for the cooler months.
Exactly.
Our, our biggest
sellers, our, our signature white wine is Riesling.
And there's a lot of it planted in Colorado, and it's actually
in our own vineyard in our own vineyard.
But Riesling is our largest program,
and it's it's waned a little bit over the years.
It's popularity was that it was the darling of the the wine world
in the, in the late 2000 and the early 2010s.
But it's still something that we produce in one of our largest programs.
Our signature wine is Merlot. Yep.
And we've done really well with Merlot over the years,
whether it's a regular standalone varietal or a reserve.
Yeah.
Highly rated in Wine Enthusiast magazine.
And various international competitions.
But those aren't the only two.
You know, we have 19 labels right now.
Yeah, 19 varietals with two different labels.
We have the the traditional winery at Holy Cross Abbey label, which is such a cool logo.
And then a couple of years ago we introduced, the “as above, so below”.
Okay.
Which is kind of a nod to organized religion before it was actually organized.
Yeah.
Little something, some pagan symbol, a symbolic tree. And,
just just talking about, you know,
hermetic principles and the oneness of the, of the universe and the earth.
And sure, it ties together with some playful names like Alchemist and.
Yeah, Theorgist, astrong- astrologist
and and of all of the 19 different varieties, your, your wines
are also available for purchase outside of the of the of the abbey as well.
Correct. Sure.
Yeah.
I mean, I'd just we'd love to see people come and visit.
Yeah. Visit us and taste the wines in the tasting room.
We we could ship to, just about 35 states, right
direct to consumer.
But then also we have 200 locations up and down the Front Range where.
Yeah, liquor stores and wine shops will will carry our product.
And, you know, locals can go and pick it up.
Exactly.
So that's that's part of what we want.
You know, locals to that might be listening to know
is that if you've never tried these
and and you're you're a try it for yourselves
but be if you've got friends and family coming to visit.
This is a great place to to go down.
But but you can give them a sample before they even get there
to, you know, to experience what what that is like, you know, Larry,
some of the ways that, you know, people measure,
a winery or they, they'll talk about
cases, like, how many cases does somebody produce in a year?
How big is the winery?
So right now we're doing we're planning on doing 6,000, 6,000 cases this year okay.
It's down from, from past years.
And that's just a construct contraction of the alcohol industry,
the wine industry in general.
Okay.
There's a lot of factors that go into that. But,
we're just continuously trying to evolve and pivot
and find ways to reach people where they want to be.
And there's still plenty of folks out there that want to experience,
the wonderment of wine and the romance of the vineyard.
And, so we just need to continue to, to reach them and,
and provide them with a fun, relaxing, educational,
but not pretentious kind of experience. Yep.
6000.
So that will be,
from the highest number.
What's the most you've ever produced?
Cases in a year?
11,000, 11,000.
So you see, you're at 6000 now.
And you really do look at that
as you talk with your peers around the state and around the country,
that that is kind of a sign of the times that people are
are they just drinking less wine is or what?
What do you what is what does the industry look like?
There is wine consumption is down around the world, around the world, in Colorado.
I know this because I chair the Colorado Wine Industry Development Board and I
have access and knowledge of tax revenues.
Wine excise tax revenues are down
this year, compared to last year,
you know, roughly 8 to 10%.
And that's just just volume.
That's not dollar amount or anything like that. Sure. It's just purchased volume.
So that just shows that people are are drinking less.
The reasons that are trivial to that is that, you know,
the wine industry has traditionally been one for the boomers.
And boomers are starting to age out.
There's they're they're spending less, they're buying less
and drink less because of health reasons or other reasons.
The, the younger demographic,
they have much more in the way of competing inebriants -
whether it's hard seltzers or it's the beer or it's the,
you know, distilled spirits. Sure.
Or even cannabis. Right.
So there's there's lots of things that are playing on on why
the younger demographic doesn't embrace wine the way the boomers.
Oh, yeah. Okay.
So I this is, I think insightful.
I'm sure that listeners are can nod and understand
and relate to a little bit and what it's like to to be in your shoes.
So when you think about
the that trend
and there's nothing you can personally do about that trend, but
as a business owner, what what do you do to kind of offset a trend like that?
Are you able other than reduce the number of cases?
Are there things that you're doing?
At, at the winery
to supplement or do, you know, incent people to come and, and
spend some money,
while they're there?
Well, there's a couple of things. Okay. Right.
Yeah.
Obviously we're we're doubling down on our quality initiatives.
Right.
You know, the best wine we can, you know, as a boutique winery,
we can't produce wine at mass produced prices. Right?
So there's going to be a little bit more expensive bottle. Yep.
But people who are into local and they're into supporting what craft
beverage manufacturing is all about is willing to pay for. Yes.
That's a quality that's exactly right, you know,
so it's got to taste like wine that they expect to get.
Sure, from France or Italy or from California.
And that's what we that's what we try to do.
We try to kind of just focus on that quality and make sure
the wine tastes like something that people want to drink.
Exactly.
And then, we're, we're trying to reach out to, to different markets.
That's great, it's fantastic.
This year we've got placed in Yellowstone National Park.
We've got three wines going on the Yellowstone National Park,
our Cerra Merlot, and our third year, which is part of that as above, so below.
It's a red blend.
It's fun.
It's uses hybrid high red grapes and
it's and it's at a lower price point.
And so they're going to be selling that by the glass at all the other outlets
out there in Yellowstone.
And that's a first for a Colorado winery.
Okay.
So we're doing things to try to distinguish ourselves
from, from our competition, the rest of the Colorado wine
and the rest of the wine that's out there on, on the shelves.
And then as far as getting visitors there, we just try to provide the
best experience that we can.
And but, you know, as part of that is throwing some, some pretty nifty events.
Right? So let's talk about that. Yeah.
Yeah.
So, each spring we have our spring wine extravaganza and it's a ticketed event.
It's limited sentiment.
But we feature some new releases, some things we're really excited about
with some really deep discounts on those wines,
giving them an opportunity for people to buy and try different things.
We've added some live entertainment where you open up the production facility,
we do some barrel tastings, and this is kind of geared towards our
loyal, you know, and consistent, consistent customers.
Our wine club members are our congregation wine club, you know. Go.
Got it. Sure, sure. You know,
and then we partner with some different groups
during the year, and we have a wine 5K
that runs at the end of August, beginning of September each year.
And they run around the abbey and they come and they drink wine.
It's crazy.
But yeah, yeah, it's like Jack Quinn’s here.
Tuesday nights downtown, people go run, run around town and then they come
and drink beer. So. Yeah. Got it.
And then our marquee event is, last weekend, last full weekend in September.
And that's our harvest fest.
It's a Tuesday, first of all, music, food,
wine, artisans, crafts people.
And, and we draw, we draw between
4 and 5000 people to that event each year.
And we we kick that off on, on Friday night with our annual winemakers dinner.
Yeah.
Usually 8 or 9 courses, 8 or 9 wines, three hour events.
And, it's it's one of my favorite nights of the year.
And it's a and it's a, you know, one of the best of,
you know, food and wine events in southern Colorado.
We feel yeah, of course we're a little biased.
But you know, I've enjoyed it twice.
I will attest. Yeah. It's it's fabulous.
Great.
Okay, so let's talk a little bit about what
your what your recommendations to people would be,
after they
spend some time with you at the winery, what are some other things
that you would suggest people do in the Cañon City, Royal Gorge region?
Well, that's an easy question for me, right?
Because, you know, before I moved to Cañon City,
I explored all the things that were available to do
in the realm of outdoor recreation or attractions.
And, I think it's fantastic that I live in a place
that has so many things to offer right in my backyard. Yep.
And so we're talking about the Royal Gorge region.
So, you know,
that's kind of like a no brainer.
It's like, how many ways can you enjoy the Royal Gorge?
Of course, you got the iconic bridge bridge and park.
Right.
And so you can either walk across that span
or you can take the gondola, or you can do some of the other ziplines.
ziplines. Right.
It's good things, right? Yeah.
You know, and we're up there,
you know, at least 4 or 5 times a season just to just enjoy that.
The beauty that's there in the back backyard,
below the bridge is the river.
You got a tourist train, a scenic train, right?
Yep. That runs right. Royal Gorge Route Railroad.
And then rafting. Yep.
You got the commercial rafting companies that are after the gorge, right.
And then the last couple, last decade or so, we've
kind of focused on hiking and biking trails and,
there are a number of trails that run across the rim of the Royal Gorge.
And so, yeah, I mean, ten minutes from parking your car,
you you can be looking down into the, into the, the great cavern there.
That's fantastic.
And let's talk a little bit about downtown Cañon City because it's it's
transformed itself.
Yeah.
It's, it's it's actually one of the, the most preserved
longest stretches of downtown historic downtown in Colorado.
Yeah. It's great.
I think it runs about ten blocks or somewhere. But I think you're right.
All these old buildings that are that are, you know, really well preserved,
thriving restaurants,
scenes and shops, you know, some great shopping opportunities down there.
Yeah.
And they have a number of events on, on Main Street as well.
Yeah. No. Exactly.
So, Larry is really describing,
like a perfect day or two days
in the Royal Gorge region,
including Cañon City.
Again, it's about an hour, southwest of Colorado
Springs and really, really worth the visit.
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Okay, so Larry,
we like to if on the on the program
talk to people, we get three questions that I want to ask you to, to think about.
And the first one,
I want you this is a Colorado Springs question.
Okay?
I want you to describe Colorado
Springs to listeners in three words.
You said you were going to ask, not ask me anything that was going to stump me.
I mean, that's three words.
Yes, it it's it.
I would say Olympic City.
Okay. Pikes peak. Yeah.
Red rocks and red rocks.
Okay. Yeah. Red Rock trails here. Okay, good.
No doubt.
Let's also use the.
Let me ask you about three words to describe the Cañon City, Royal
Gorge region.
How would you describe that?
I would just say, you know,
hidden gem, hidden gem, outdoor recreational opportunities,
you know?
Yep. That abound. Yeah.
And banana belt, climate capital.
Colorado. Yeah.
And great wine.
Great wine. Okay, good.
So you you talked about hidden gem.
What what is your favorite
hidden gem in the Pikes Peak region?
Where do you like to go?
Wow. That's.
Well, I mean, to Pikes Peak region, including Cañon City.
Yeah, yeah. And Colorado Springs, however you want to do it.
I mean, I think it's crazy.
Nobody talks about the golfing. The golf. Right?
Okay. Yeah.
You know, I just, you know,
there's a couple of golf courses down in the Royal Gorge region.
What do you play?
I play Four Mile, Four Mile Ranch.
It's a Jim Engh designed course.
He’s got some courses and some pretty swanky places throughout Colorado.
Okay.
And this is an opportunity to play a, you know, a
design course pretty much 12 months out of the year.
There's a couple of weekends that were blocked out.
But for the most part, we can we can we can play year round.
And I know that that course gets a lot of play from Colorado Springs.
There are a lot of people that come down there for the day to play the course.
Yeah.
And, you know, hopefully they come into town and spend some money
at our restaurants and gas stations and wineries.
Fantastic. Exactly.
All right. So you've lived here 20 years. Yeah.
What is still on your bucket list?
What have you not done?
I've done I've done a lot. Yeah.
I have no doubt.
No doubt.
I guess I would indicate that
I really don't have a bucket list of things I need to do.
All right.
I've run a winery successfully for for for 20 years.
I've gotten involved with our community down there lots of different ways.
I've had a whitewater park built.
I've got schools built as part of my tenure on the Board of Education.
I'm involved with tourism.
I've been involved with the Chamber of Commerce.
So, you know, I've made an impact on very many, a lot of things.
Sure. Yeah.
In, in our, in our community. And so,
there's really not much else that
I want to be able to accomplish except.
Okay, you know, I'm 63 years old.
I'm looking at, you know, my my potential exit.
I do not have a child that's interested in the business.
And so right now, I'm heavily focused on securing the legacy
for the winery to make sure that succession it's succeeded.
Yeah.
It's it's either purchased by somebody with a passion for wine or,
make sure my employees continue to be able to work there
and that the community continues to have that asset?
That is my primary bucket list.
Sure. Well, so for anybody listening,
if you if you put yourself where Larry
was back in 2000 and 2002 and you're about to start a journey
of what that next chapter might be in your life,
you should stop in and talk to Larry
at, at the at the Holy Cross Winery.
Larry, thank you very, very much.
I want to ask you to be sure and tell listeners,
where they can learn more all about the winery.
Oh, abbeywinery.com.
abbeywinery.com is our website.
We have our, we’re on the socials as well, Instagram and Facebook and,
the obviously the there's a lot of information
about the winery available on the Visit Colorado Springs website.
Yes, there is as long as as well as the RoyalGorgeRegion.com
Yeah. on that as well.
So, it doesn't take much to, to find us.
We're really easily located there on highway 50 as you head into town. Yep.
And it's a it's a great stop either on the way in or on the way out.
And we love visitors, and it's worth the trip.
Absolutely. Larry, thank you for joining us today.
Thank you. It's a pleasure. Doug. Yep.