You're listening to A VerySpatial Podcast, episode 754, February 5th, 2025.
Hello.
Welcome to A VerySpatial Podcast.
I'm Jesse.
I'm Sue.
I'm Barb.
And this is Frank.
Yeah, so, I, I don't know if this is news or this is housekeeping, it's,
it, it, it is the current state of the world, so I'll just say that if
you are a person who uses U. S. data, especially from federal data sources
and if you do need those data sources, then you should go and download them,
they're probably gone, but you can try.
To see if they're still there many are going offline if it's anything
to do with environmental justice or social justice or DEI or climate change
or we can keep going down the list.
Yeah, they're, they're offline.
You might be able to find other sources.
So a lot of the data is being collected in cooperation with.
Universities or other organizations.
So you may be able to find it on other sites and a lot of historic data.
Of course, you can go to places like ArcGIS online or state repositories
where they made duplications, duplicate copies of it, it's.
Yeah.
Some, I mean, just so many very dedicated, brave, and, and really
trying hard workers in, in, within the federal government, within partnering
agencies, scholars and all that are trying to, you know, do what they can.
I'll say that this is one of the times that it kind of benefits us that private
organizations and nonprofits are just pull, have been pulling data from official
sources and then doing sort of value added because that, In itself ends up
being a record of the information I saw.
I didn't confirm it, but I saw the tiger lines, for example, were down from census
that obviously is in pretty much all the Esri data sets that you can connect to.
It's also in open street map.
So, you know, it's good that these things are being replicated in other places.
So it is a nice benefit of this data being out there.
And so free for so long that when these type of disruptions for lack of
a better word occur, there are other.
Places that you can get the information in what we Honest to
goodness hope is the short term
and this is something I think the geospatial community
we've been talking about.
Not this situation, but when other things have happened, where data has
not been as readily available, that was openly available to have other
repositories to download and back up.
So it is almost a trial by fire of, you know, some of
the things that the geospatial community has been talking about.
Worldwide.
So the National Honor Society for Geospatial Technology
has their applications open.
This is Gamma Sigma Theta, and it is open to undergraduates, graduates,
faculty and alumni and then students in the Honor Society receive benefits
from all the partners with the National Honor Society, and this includes the
Geospatial Professionals Network, formerly ERISA AS, and PRS the JS
Certification Institute and Drone Deploy.
I really hope they get their own website at some point in time because
the story map is usable, but there is, it's, it's got some issues in terms
of being, being comfortable with it.
It is, it's the.
Fourth semester.
There we go.
Fourth semester.
The original semester was, of course, then fall of 2023.
That was the first semester that GST, Gamma Sigma Theta was out and available.
I'm looking on the website and seeing if it's still in the pre introductory
period, and I don't see anything explicit about fees this semester.
So it seems then that we are still in that introductory period where they're
not assessing any fees for membership.
So you apply as long as you meet the qualifications,
which is, I believe it's a 3.
3 GPA and a certain percentage of your class, if you're a student of
undergraduate to graduate status.
And, and You're in.
And so take advantage of it while it's free.
So do you have to apply to a chapter?
So does your university have to have a chapter for you to be a member?
There are not chapters, but you cannot apply as an individual.
You need to talk to a faculty member at your university because the, a faculty
representative of the students has submits everybody's all at one time.
Yeah.
If you're interested in gamma, sigma, theta, same thing.
If you're also interested in geography in general, gamma, theta, epsilon is.
The International Honor Society for Geography that one does have a fee but the
same thing you talk to your local chapter there because you might have a president
or something like that for a local chapter or your faculty representative,
mentor, whatever, for GTU as well.
So yeah, either way, if you're a student, graduate, undergraduate, talk
to your, your faculty about becoming a member of one of these organizations.
And you have till April 13th to get the stuff in, I think, isn't that right?
Yeah, the faculty mentor has until April to submit it.
So you should get it to them at least a few days early.
Yeah, which means that, that you need to get it in Before then.
You can't turn it in the night before they have to turn it in.
Let's just
Yes, because we do have to check to make sure that you are eligible.
Before we can submit it on to, and it is a hard deadline.
It's not like April 13th itch is April 13th at 7 p. m. Eastern.
And if it's not in by then, that's, that's it.
Nobody else is getting in for that semester.
And they, and they do recommend like a process, like the faculty could
interview you or something like that.
So it's listed.
So the faculty evaluation piece is substantial.
It takes some time.
So do a, do a lot of that.
I'd be thinking March.
That's what I'm saying to get it to the faculty.
I, I, I'm, I'm not as many hoops and it's a small department anyway.
So in terms of the number of people who are coming to, to ask to be in it.
I had my first one today who just kind of stopped by and said, Hey,
are we doing GTU this semester?
I'm like, yes, I'll put you on the list and see if you are eligible.
But yeah, it's.
I'd say, you know, by the beginning of April, you're probably safe.
But yes, if you want to be really, really safe, especially
big departments, March is good.
Yeah, the key is the three classes.
So you do have to have three geospatial technology classes.
And so if you, we kind of have, you know, for some students, as long as
they're taking classes that include geospatial technologies, we don't
necessarily require it to be a geospatial technology explicit heavy class.
as long as it has a good bit of, of it in there.
So for instance, right now my weather and climate class, you know, we
have a good five, six exercises that are going to be an arc or something
else like that, that are using geospatial technologies of some sort.
And so I would include that as an example.
Okay, either way, moving on to the last piece of news.
Penn State has been using QR codes to follow honeybees.
To basically determine their, their pathways and where they go.
It's You know, pretty neat way to do this.
They had QR codes on honeybees that then had sensors that detected where
they went between some Pennsylvania, New York and six five spots in order to get
a better understanding of how they're collecting pollen and nectar and what
they're doing since they're endangered.
I don't know.
It was like six years ago or something.
We had a faculty who was putting together an apiary and, and she wanted
us to use drones to follow the bees.
That would be challenging.
That's,
that's an understatement.
And of course, it would have an impact on the bee's flight itself,
depending on how close you were.
So yeah, there's, there's a lot to be said.
So this is a much more elegant solution than the person who came and talked to me.
I think a very time intensive, but very you know, more elegant
solution they were able to identify individual bees in each individual.
I wonder how many people got stung when they would see the bees and look over,
like random people, what is on that bee?
What is that?
I'm just saying.
It just reminded me of Mai Po Kwan, but with honeybees.
And that's it for the news.
So this week I wanted to chat a little bit about something that I returned
to on occasion and not too long ago I did and that is I think for all of us
and by the way, not just geographers or GIS people or, or any of that, but
anybody, right, return back to some of the sort of to us books, scholarly works,
whatever That really resonated with us and our stuff that that kind of come
back to right and then There's tons of stuff that maybe we've read or things we
thought, but there's always a few that, you know, really, really spoke to us.
And so I thought it'd be great to kind of just talk about some of those
and, and just see, and, and for me to kind of pick it off, the one that I
just came back to yet again was Jay Appleton's, his experience of landscape.
So, so he wrote tons of stuff, but so that was the one and, and first had to read it.
In graduate school and studying cultural landscape and stuff.
But kept coming back to it.
And the seminal part of that his work in, and he expounded it in others, was
the idea of prospect refuge theory.
And the reason why it resonates with me, among all, a lot of other great things
I've read, is that I'd never really thought of how I I myself or maybe others
viewed landscape right and inhabiting it and so prospect refuge unless somebody
else wants to kick in kind of with the definition is, is essentially the idea
that people have sort of innate urges, innate reactions to environment and Two
of those reactions are how you see kind of yourself out in the world, and the idea of
prospect is that you have a need or feel a need to be able to see around you, right,
to potentially see threats, right, to see and make sense of the world, and the
converse of that is, is refuge, the idea that, that maybe you're in a safe space,
a closed in space where And not quite hiding, but maybe threats can't see you.
And so I'm kind of simplifying it down and, and these things have been
expounded on and, and kind of stuff.
But, but so anyway, so prospect versus refuge.
And so if you just think of prospect as I have a wide view, and refuge is
more, you know, closed in, maybe safe.
And, and it's interesting because you can look at so many things and, yes, we don't,
you know, you don't want to necessarily just reduce it down to that, but it's a,
it's a starting off point to think, well, why do, why do I react to things this way?
And you can think for it anywhere from looking at artworks to, you
know, you can see it in how people whereas I started working with it,
like how people frame shots in movies.
I was actually looking at it in a video game worlds class, so
looking at video game landscapes.
But anyway, I just got to thinking that this, this book has been around for a long
time, but I just keep coming back to it.
In fact, I think Justin and I were talking about this.
I think it was published in 1975, which is 50 years ago this year.
I, I don't actually know that book, of that theory.
It's kind of interesting.
To me, one of the more interesting dimensions about this conversation
is I suspect the overlap between the four of us will be not large.
And to that, to the one that definitely resonates the most with
me is Fu Tuan's space and place.
Like that, Was that I go back to all the time is thinking about that.
That was a very profound change for me because I spent most of my time
in my professional career in G. I. S. dealing with space in some form or
fashion, and I was in political science originally and in political science.
It's much more.
It fashions itself a bit more as a more objective view on social phenomena.
That's an overbroad generalization, but it tends to think in a
little more in those terms.
So space in place was, was profound for me because it said, you know, we have
all that stuff, this objective things, but we also have all the subjective
things and, and they're very important, arguably more important more defining
for what we understand as humanity.
And that was like turning.
The turning the cube around from a completely different angle
that I was like, Oh, good Lord.
I didn't think if you could look at it from that direction.
So for me, that that's one that I constantly feel myself referencing to
not necessarily, you know, pulling the book out and reading it and saying, for
twine said this, for twine said that, but the, the concepts and the ideas
within that is one that I pull back to I was, I was, she was talking, I
was actually looking at our bookcase, trying to find, make sure I had the
right name, but Tim Creswell did space, I'm sorry, did place and introduction.
And it's a lesser version of that for me.
I'm not saying it's a lesser book by any church imagination.
It's a different way of thinking about place as well,
but it is what I read second.
So it wasn't quite as profound, but it still does those, those two books
embody the notion of place and how that was a profound change for me.
And it really does enter as being almost my, origin point for geography.
I think about it in those terms very strongly when I think about geography.
I feel a little bit like we're in a oral exam because I'm like, do I have the name?
Right?
I find myself in everyday life referring Eleanor Ostrom and the
modifiable aerial unit problem, the mop because it just surprisingly appears
just out of nowhere all the time.
And, and people don't think about what it is, or until you explain what it is, they
don't realize, you know, what's occurring.
And because it's hard for us to recognize that, in the world and
we understand it what cognitively once we hear what the term is.
So there's, that's one of the works that I think about.
I'm like, oh, surprisingly, it's very useful to bring out.
And so whenever we look at these, I counter Frank in his statement that
he thought they would, there would be very little overlap because in
reality, we're looking at things that have a significant overlap.
So, so far we have two from the seventies.
Two, very much driven by experience three, explicitly talking about landscape.
Wait, what year was the Mott book?
Was that early 80s?
I forget.
And so we've got experience, we've got landscape mine, because of my
dissertation, I'm not going to say this is the, the, the end all be all,
but back again, 50 years ago, we have.
This edition of Tadahiko Higuchi with the original Japanese works that were
eventually translated in the eighties to visual spatial structure of landscape.
So you know, we have this, this binding of landscape across all the books.
And this one again, three of them in the seventies tied to experience heavily.
And then one looking a little bit more at that.
I don't know.
I I Did you not walk away from political science?
Did you hold on to that?
Well, yeah.
I mean, scientifically we, that's subtlety gotta, is a Why not?
There's an overlap.
There's a, there's an overlap.
I, I mean when you say you, do you mean me or do you mean Barbara Bar?
'cause I think we, okay.
Two of us have different
Yeah.
Takeaways.
Yeah, Barb also has that sustainability, you know, sustainable resources,
things like that background as well.
So, I think that would appeal.
Sure, sure.
Journalism.
Huh.
Yeah, and journalism.
The other one, which is going to be something that I go to for
fun, which is, I have a book.
I have to look up.
I can see it in my eye.
It's a paperback.
It's a map of London streets.
And it's literally just.
Maps of London streets with the history of each building and then the people
that live there in like an almanac.
It's very relaxing.
It would be nice if they had something like that for everywhere.
Even though, again, we might have a really broad background in things, if there's
certain things that resonate more with us, we just keep coming back to them.
And so I use even, even if I use it as a jumping off point, I find that that's
a way to often approach explaining to others for me to say, this is why we want
to understand experience and attachment.
So, By the way, another futon, a very famous work that that feeds into
this tolia right attachment to place, but to try to explain how we might
understand what it is that maybe is connecting with people on a deeper level.
And so the, the profit prospect re refuge idea, right?
The reason why.
It resonates with me.
It's not so much that this is a be all and end all and understand things.
It's that it's a way to explain to others, to approach and say, Look, here's a way
somebody's trying to figure out what it is about certain landscapes that people
might be, might feel affinity for, might Feel more comfortable in or have
an emotion regarding right so that the idea and often to write you see things
in contrast to each other and so one of the images that I show is the very
famous painting or is it the wanderer or whatever the dude standing on the
rock looking out over the vast expanse.
Right, and it brings emotion, or looking at a landscape painting, right, where you
just see across this open space versus maybe looking at something darker and
more closed in, and maybe, you know, some might say, well even that it's not
a refuge, right, so you might have people that react against maybe those, ideas.
So some people out in the open might feel exposed, for example.
So it's even a jumping off point to say, you know, do you agree with this?
And to get people talking about it, right?
So this is someone, so when Appleton, you know, came up with this, he's
trying to understand these various things, but maybe, maybe it's a
jumping off point to say, well, how How comprehensive or how valid is that, right?
Because there are plenty of people who don't like to be
out in the open, for example.
Or plenty of people who are in a, a space that might feel safe and
maybe somewhat closed in actually feel uncomfortable that way, right?
They feel trapped.
So, so I think that, that what I was kind of thinking about with coming
back to some of these ideas is, why do, why do I come back to this
particular one and, and What is it that I think I can, you know, not only for
myself, but for others kind of show?
So everyone here and, and I, but I think in the audience,
people are going, you're wrong.
And you're right.
It was another O author.
It's Dan Openshaw from 1984.
Oh, okay.
For the mob.
And I got my O names mixed up because I felt put on the
spot and didn't have notes.
And I was like, it's an O name, you know.
Like them both.
But yeah, it's Stan Openshaw that did the Modifiable Areal Unit Problem.
So, you know, you had an interesting question.
Did you take anything for political science?
And I, I, I'm going to talk about something that's the anti version of
what you're, you're saying is that.
Now, there are a lot of things in political science that I was like, well,
wait a minute, that doesn't match my experience or things that I've observed
or the, you know, what I've gone through or I've watched others go through.
So I don't understand how this body of literature can kind
of get at these conclusions.
One of the ones that was.
Very with a big revelation.
I think Barbara would've called, maybe she still is.
I think she still is call, would call herself in political science terms,
an institutionalist the belief in, in institutions and their, their
ability to do things and their own, you know, bodies of existence.
And it's a whole thing in political science discourse is
that idea about institution.
There's also this other theory called the garbage garbage can theory
that talks about policy formation.
And it's this notion that when you ask policymakers, how did you decide
this particular policy would come to the top bubble, to the top, instead
of all these others, this particular solution instead of all these others.
And they said, look, we just, this stuff's kind of just shows up in like a garbage
can almost while we just kind of pick stuff out of the garbage can that just.
Hits for that day is this I'm simplifying a lot of this, but that's essentially
their garbage, pale theory of policy.
And that's why these things get picked.
And I was livid when I was listening to this in the class,
because I was like, that is a load of garbage, no pun intended.
They are given the theory because I just spent a year of my life
trying to advocate for policy.
And trying to get these things to Within the geospatial realm within the state
of west virginia trying to get these things to the surface And i'm like,
no, it's not just some random thing.
You happen to find on the shelf It's if the right voices get the right volume
then they just get more prominence in the decision matrix and So I got very
frustrated with, so the Garbage Pail Theory has been very revelatory to me in
the sense of I don't feel it's holistic and it's also not a term I heard at all
in political science, a positionality is a function of positionality.
If you go and ask staffers for policymakers, how does the theory come,
how does the policy come to, you know, to bubble to the top to run with it?
Their point of view.
Completely ignores all the stuff that happens before that actually happens.
So in the moment that may be there may not really be even even writing down what
it is, how they picked it or whatever.
But I felt like what you chose to study the scale to use geography terms that they
chose to study dictated the theory and how that performed when I was like, no,
wait, no, there's a whole lot of stuff that goes before that that got ignored.
It was the lack of holisticness.
So that one actually sticks with me a lot because when I do approach
things, I go, what am I missing in the process by what I'm studying, what
I'm looking at, what I'm exploring that I'm not seeing because I, where I
chose to enter the stream of analysis,
I'll jump into the, the none.
geography examples as well, which mine kind of overlaps a little bit on the inter
site level as opposed to intra site level.
But from an archaeological perspective, the book What This All, A. W.
L., means was one of those that, for archaeology, began to set a
new way of providing discourse.
It was a book that provided a traditional discussion of an archaeological site,
but then the next chapter would lay out a humanizing factor, creating an experience,
telling a story around these artifacts that were being found at this site.
And a lot of it centering around an awl and how it was being used day
to day and how it eventually made its way from the source material
to being curated to finding its way eventually into the refuse of the site.
Going back and forth, one chapter, traditional archaeology discussion and
methodologies, one chapter story, one chapter discussion and methodologies.
And we've seen that a lot since then, especially in things like
Landscape Experience books and articles that kind of do that as well.
But this is one of the ones that I read first.
I'm not sure if there were a lot before that, but it just You know kind of struck
home for me Not in the counter way that the book that Frank was just talking
about made him wonder about his reality.
No comment on Frank's existential crisis,
you know, it is interesting way to reframe the question that that's
who had is a and and You know, I want to say an 81 or an inverse one.
I don't know what the word is, but it is kind of interesting.
And I think there's a lot I learned in political science that did give me in
opposition to things that were going on in geography in terms of philosophical
approaches, not, you know, necessarily ontology, epistemological level of
philosophy, but, you know, kind of,
how do you actually make the bread work?
Yeah.
And a lot of that, it did have a profound impact on the way
that I think about a lot of.
How we think about geography.
And so, and I, I have a master's degree in national relations and a lot of the
IR theory is very grounded in the person which like leadership theory is really
complicated because when you're looking at it, it's very hard to make political
science theory around singular events with singular people at a single point in time.
And historians would rightfully so come in and say, wait a minute,
you're really Talking about history and history processes and
theories and that sort of stuff.
So that bit also made me kind of bring in the geography to go, wait, wait, yeah,
we are trying to come up with systemic understanding that maybe could happen.
But if you're starting from the basis of data and data points.
You're don't got enough so i'm not maybe you're attacking it wrong is what i'm
saying you're using the wrong tool set
well i think too i mean as i'm as i'm kind of listening and and one of the
things that for me and kind of get into this discussion is maybe you don't know
until later like when people when people recommend books to read or or things like
that or maybe even a movie to watch or something you can't really know the impact
but it's but it's interesting you Right, if things really made a difference for
you, for whatever reason, right, whether you agreed with something, disagreed with
something those choices, right, and all of us are, are educators in some way,
right, those choices can sometimes really help somebody else understand whatever
concept that it enlightened you with, you know, or again, be a jumping off point,
especially if you have a strong reaction, there's things that I've read, I won't,
I won't name works, but I remember when I was doing historical archaeology,
there were two things that I was asked to read and I just, I just disagreed with
them vehemently of their framework, just because they were trying really hard to
convince you that this particular model of analysis was the way to go and, and
every painful twist they made to try to pin down their stuff to fit into the model
just made it like that much more painful.
And so.
I remember those for that, right?
They said, look, I, whatever I do, I'm not going to, I'm not going to try
to force this into this rigid model.
But, but I think that, that thinking about why someone asked you to read things
or, you know, why you gravitated towards something I think is, is really good
because then you have to make a decision.
Like what will I, what will I tell people that I think they should, they should try?
And I'll give a, an actual not a scholarly article, but I can remember
it was actually in history class.
We had to read a book called The Leopard.
And The Leopard was actually made into a movie decades ago, but The Leopard
was a book about, a novel about the disintegration kind of of the old order
in Europe and the rise of you know, post industrial stuff in the 19th century.
And I had never really thought about, like, some of those ways that you could
capture that in a, in a microcosm until I read that book, but I would never in a
million years on my own have picked that up, but, but yet I still remember some
parts of that, like how the characters embodied kind of the old traditions.
You had the new industrialist, that kind of thing.
So they were archetype kind of in a way, but anyway that was another example.
Cause I've often asked if anybody else had read that and like, what?
Sue, this is, this is an example of this inaction.
My father sent me a copy of the leopard when he sent me a bunch of vintage books,
vintage map books thinking of me and it sat on my shelf and I haven't read it yet.
And now I'm going to, and I have to say it goes both ways.
I remember the feeling I had when Dr. DeClerico, who's big in political science,
I was reading a book from geography.
It was, it was actually the ghost map.
And I told him, you know, I really enjoy this.
And he asked to borrow the copy to read it.
And I just felt so good that like, He was interested.
He thought something that I was reading and explained was, was worthwhile.
Probably the book though, that I referenced the most in my teaching,
certainly in my teaching, I'm doing, I'm, I'm teaching photography this semester and
I'm definitely referencing it as one form of the fashion is how to lie with maps.
You know, it's It's a seminal book in Geography, but I do
ask myself for the moment.
I discovered this book existed and I was very familiar with the concept
of how to live statistics before that ever but for the moment that I read
that book or Read pieces of that book because I ended up reading it over.
I ended up reading pieces here and there and then ultimately
reading the whole thing in parts.
The moment I, that connect with me, I started asking myself,
what am I lying about in my map?
And is that okay?
Is it purposeful is, you know, which of course led to the overreaching.
What story are you trying to tell?
What is the thing you're trying to communicate the important things in,
in what I think are the important things in cartography, but that
was very critical to my thinking about, or even writing a report.
You know, whereas before it'd be like, these are the data and what it showed.
Now I'm going, well, okay, I picked this data and I picked to
run those numbers and I didn't pick the, run these other numbers.
And I didn't write about why I didn't pick these other numbers.
Those things I, I'm presenting a point of view and that has an inherent well,
point of view, I don't wanna say bias, but arguably, yes, bias, and because I'm
doing that, I need to be cognitive of it to either minimize it or acknowledge
that I'm not telling a piece of the story or, you know, I have to be careful,
cognitive that I think, and that, that is something that was very profound
for me about how to live with maps.
And I think it's something that that's why it's in every damn geography
program that you should read this book because it is so profound, but
it's very interesting to me that I haven't read that book in years, but.
I do go back to his concepts.
Almost every map I make
and along with what everyone's been saying, I was thinking about it's
the right book at the right time.
I remember when I was struggling in my studies and Dr Marta stopped by with a
book that he had enjoyed when he was in.
I don't know if it was undergraduate or graduate and he sat there and he opened
the book and he wrote in the flap that he believed that I would be able to graduate.
And also, it means I can never get rid of it out of my library, but he did.
He said, you know, in this book, I'm writing this because I, I believe that,
you know, you can, you can do this.
And so I think there's a lot of power in that mentorship.
And sometimes those ones are mundane books that, never really won any awards or
anything like that, but, but again, they were the right time, and I can remember a
history book when I had to teach history when I was in grad school for that.
It was simply just a book on the causes of the First World War, but it was
a book that, that laid them out and summarized them, and it was meant to
be kind of a concise guide, and I still remember, and I'm like, you know what?
That's got it laid out for me, all of the complex things that were going on
and we all know like, you know, the arms race and all the intertwining
alliances and all that kind of stuff.
But even like books like that, right, can resonate with you later because they
helped you understand a topic and it was the way they did it, not necessarily
the topic itself that made them, you know, made them useful or stick with you
and say, yeah, that's, that's something I could go back to to understand.
There was an historian, she was kind of a popular historian blanking on her name,
Catherine, Catherine something maybe, she wrote a series, she wrote a book about
life in a medieval village, for example, that was one of the historian books that
she did, and she did one about World War I, I think, and I can't remember all of
them, but I found her, like you, like you, I found her approach to writing
about this stuff to be An amazingly revelatory thing, because all the history
books I had read before that were just try tombs of history, and you kind of
had to get the exciting bits out of it.
And I liked it.
I enjoyed it.
I've always been a big fan.
Huge fan of history.
I have a minor in it.
So I did a lot of history classes, but it was a, it was, you know, you had
to fight for it to really get to it.
But when I started reading her books, I was just like, I just enjoy reading this.
Like, I enjoy reading a novel.
'cause it takes you through so many great things.
And the, I know he, there's a, I know a lot of historians have had
problems with him as, as an historian, but the gentleman who wrote Band of
Brothers, I can't remember his name.
He had a, he took that even further and he had a very similar style.
And then Barbara mentioned the ghost map book and the you know, about the Jon Snow
and, and the London maps again, the style of that makes a very engaging story.
And it's, it's an interesting way to approach communicating information.
And I think it's part of the reason that I've always really.
appreciated those who can push scholarship in a way that You don't need a PhD to
really get that intrigued me the most.
So I, I don't know how to do it.
I'll be the first to admit, but I do find that style very compelling.
And, and, and it did change me a lot too.
Was it Catherine Hanley?
I think that sounds right.
I said, I can, I can picture the, I can picture the top of the book of the
edition I had for the one life in a medieval village or something like that.
But I cannot remember her name.
Kind of wrapping up the conversation, we'll let the Dr.
Bergeron completely wrap this up.
But I think one of the things to note is that almost all the books that we talked
about are as old or older than we are.
And that's because they became kind of part of, of the disciplines that we were
in a little bit before we got to them.
And so the people who were teaching us, our mentors.
Pass them on to us and so now the books that we're talking about some of them
are the same books but other ones are Ones that build on the books that we've
been talking about and and take us new places and hopefully, you know convey new
ideas As well to those who are reading
just to kind of wrap up, I think it was a great conversation, but it's
just interesting how some of those things often from our background,
how we, we use them as touchstones.
We use them as ways to get others you know, to maybe think about
the things we were thinking about.
And, and so there are many, and I'm sure there's tons for you, for
you out there of examples and, and honestly, it doesn't always have to be.
A book or an article or something like that, but, but those are the ones for
us in, in education, right, that we're trying to transmit our background,
our knowledge to others and get them to maybe see and ask questions.
So that was what all started with the prospect refuge because I felt that
this is a theory, right, that's easy, well, not easy, maybe not the, the
right word, but it's, it's one that people can, it can understand, right?
Even if they don't agree with it or they want to, you know, modify it or
do things, is they can understand the concept of it fairly straightforward.
And, and so that was one of the reasons why I liked it.
Yeah, it starts as a very simple idea and then the book builds through.
Exactly.
The various ways you can expand this and it becomes more in depth as you
go through it, but you can start with.
Yeah.
And to examine it, right?
To critically examine it.
Like, what do you think of this?
So anyway, so I thought that was a great discussion though, and maybe we'll
have to revisit it with, with different things that, that resonate with us, but,
and some heads up on what the, the comp questions are going to be beforehand.
Yeah.
You know, and it's funny how both you and Barb mentioned that too,
because it does take me back to that.
But, but I tended to use examples of books that really, for me,
right, I could talk about because they did have an impact on me.
You know, it's, it's interesting.
I, I, I, I think we should have this following discussion because I actually
talked a lot more about ideas and I don't necessarily remember the books or the,
or even the author in a lot of ways.
Like, so there's things that I can say I didn't mention because I know there's this
concept, this concept, another concept.
They were profound, but I don't remember who wrote it, when they
wrote it, where they wrote it.
So I'm a bad scholar in that regard.
On to the events corner.
As always, we encourage you to check out these events and others.
GeoBusiness will be taking place the 4th and 5th of June in London, in the UK.
RGS
IBG is taking place August 26th through 29th in Birmingham.
Abstracts are due by March 7th.
GIS Pro, which is a great conference if you get a chance to go, is
October 6th in Denver, Colorado.
But abstracts are due by May 5th.
Please, you should present, it's a great place.
Geography 2050, so from the American Geographical Society, will be taking place
November 20th and 21st in New York City.
If you'd like us to add your event to the podcast, send us an
email to podcast at veryspatial.
com.
If you'd like to reach us individually, I can be reached at sue at veryspatial.
com.
I can be reached at barb at veryspatial.
com.
And you can reach me at frank at veryspatial.
com.
Of course, if you'd like to reach any of us, you can head over to veryspatial.
com slash contacts and of course me at Kinda Spatial.
As always, we're the folks from Very Spatial.
Thanks for listening.
We'll see you in a couple weeks.
Guess
this is what drowning looks like Waves of people sending good vibes I'm not alone,
I have someone at home Who's stayed up waiting to tell me goodnight I'm a student
today, goodnight Kiss me then please turn off the lights No, I shouldn't complain.
The good days stay the same.
But I'm drowning in a wave of good vibes.
I wanna be better.
And
together.
Long enough to be better.
Mind your sheets.
Your clothes and my feet.
When it's just you and me.
I should be.
What day?
I don't define the surface.
But therapy just makes me nervous.
So I waste good days having nothing to say.
Even when you call to say you're worth it.
The same thing every day.
You're worth it.
Baby, we will make it through this.
No, I shouldn't complain,
but in a vibe.
Together, long enough to be better.
My bed and your sheets, your clothes and my feet.
Well, it's just you and me.
I should be better here.
I'm searching for good morning.
I'm searching for good day.
I'm searching for good morning.
Yeah.
Running off to be better.
My bed and your sheets.
Your clothes and my feet.
When it's just you and me.
I should be better with you.
I should be better with
you.
I should be better with you.
It's just that I'm in love with you.