1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,000 Obviously co-managed IT, we've been talking about it again for a number of years. 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Uh I'm I'm now running into uh some MSPs that are turning down MSP opportunities in favor of co-managed opportunities. 3 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:17,000 That's super interesting because that kind of you know, it's kind of always been lingering around. 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,000 We've been talking about it probably for about four or five years. 5 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:31,000 Uh and now all of a sudden, uh it seems to be really catching on and and we've all figured out how to make money, how to position it, how to sell it, how to overcome those objections, all those types of things. 6 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:37,000 So, you know, I'm starting to see more and more co-managed revenue uh within MSPs, which I think is a fantastic thing for our space. 7 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:45,000 Welcome to Evolved Radio, where we explore the evolution of business and technology. 8 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:46,000 I'm your host, Todd Kane. 9 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:54,000 This episode is brought to you by Evolved Management Training courses, a whole series of courses built specifically for your MSP training needs. 10 00:00:55,000 --> 00:01:44,000 There's a project management for MSPs course, an MSP service manager boot camp, MSP security fundamentals, and an IT documentation done right course. Check out the full suite of courses at training.evolvedmgmt.com. 11 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,000 Or look for a link in the show notes. 12 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,000 In today's episode, I chat with industry veteran Rob Ray. 13 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:04,000 Together, we explore the dynamics of technology conferences from choosing locations and handling logistics to balancing network opportunities amid distractions. 14 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:13,000 Join us as we uncover the future of technology events, transformative role of AI, and the continuing evolution of the MSP and IT landscape. 15 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:14,000 Let's get started. 16 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,000 Rob, welcome to the Evolved Radio podcast. 17 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,000 Thank you. Super happy to be here. Thanks for having me. 18 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,000 Of course. 19 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,000 So, we'll do an intro for you, but I I kind of wonder if you need any intro. 20 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:30,000 I feel like you're kind of the MSP goat, channel champion, probably easily one of the most recognized people in the industry. 21 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:39,000 Uh both because of sort of your tenure in the industry, how visible you've been through events and channel promotion and just being very visible. 22 00:02:39,000 --> 00:03:29,000 And also being incredibly helpful. It's one of the things I've always appreciated about you is that you're genuinely interested to just connect with people and see how you can have a conversation and provide any insights. 23 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,000 So, first of all, thanks for being here and thanks for everything you've contributed to the channel for sure. 24 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:35,000 Brian, I appreciate that. 25 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,000 And I I mean, I'm just being myself. 26 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,000 I appreciate all the kind words, but uh it's very humbling, so thank you. 27 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,000 Of course. 28 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:50,000 Uh so, one of the things I heard you talk about recently that I wanted to get your insights on is the future of the MSP distribution model. 29 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:59,000 So, distribution has certainly changed, uh and, you know, you're now at uh Pax 8, which is a major digital distributor. 30 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:06,000 And just I'll I'll sort of queue you up there on how are you viewing and how is Pax 8 viewing sort of the the future of the disty? 31 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,000 Yeah, absolutely. And and thanks for the opportunity to talk about this. 32 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:16,000 It's actually super interesting. And so I um I spent uh the last 10 years working for uh Dato. 33 00:04:16,000 --> 00:05:07,000 Um one of the technology like creating actual technology, bringing technology to market. We owned our IP, we owned patents around that IP and we were bringing to market and used the MSP channel to sell exclusively. 34 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:23,000 So, you know, I left uh in October of 22 and decided that uh kind of at the age I'm at, if I'm going to have another one more kind of journey here, uh ride some unicorn off into the into the sunset, then I would need to uh career change. 35 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:30,000 So, you know, I started looking around and had lots of opportunities, great technology companies that were doing some really, really cool things. 36 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:36,000 I was kind of looking for the next dato that I could spend the next 10 years at and kind of take them off to the next level. 37 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:43,000 And, you know, I've known the founders and and a lot of the executive team of Pax 8 for a while and they came to me and said, hey, why don't you come work here? 38 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:50,000 And uh, you know, I kind of looked at it and went, well, I mean, you don't really do anything from a technology standpoint. 39 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,000 You're not generating or or creating any technology, you don't have a road map, those kinds of things. 40 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,000 But those are the things in my mind that are like really sexy. 41 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,000 So, uh then they showed me what they were working on. 42 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:06,000 And that's when I realized that, you know, they're not only um transforming into an innovation technology company. 43 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,000 But they're actually blazing a brand new path. 44 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:15,000 And, you know, the D word, disty is something that we've actually stopped using at Pax 8. 45 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:21,000 Um and to be honest, I kind of cringe every time I hear it because it we're talking about kind of the new buyer journey. 46 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:26,000 And the new buyer journey is more around things like marketplace. 47 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:33,000 Now, you know, you're going to say it's just a catchphrase, what's the difference between disty and and marketplace? 48 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:40,000 And I think that if you if you take a second and kind of like a a deeper dive and we've been talking about this pretty much in all the presentations that I've done. 49 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,000 When you and I met there in in New Jersey, we talked about this. 50 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:56,000 It's basically harnessing the data in in a way to actually help the MSP grow their businesses as opposed to just selling other people's stuff. 51 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:03,000 So, you know, it kind of takes all of the information that we've got and uses it in a way in which the vendors are going to succeed more. 52 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:10,000 The MSPs are going to succeed more, uh and then it matches up to the way the buyer is actually changing. 53 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:16,000 How they are consuming technology in from an SMB perspective. 54 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:24,000 So, it's interesting because the way that you're describing this and sort of what I took away from the presentation. 55 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:30,000 It reminds me of uh the sort of the old days of like people getting into Microsoft partnerships. 56 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:40,000 And it's sort of the uninitiated in those relationships had very high expectations and big dreams about how they'd become an MS partner and all of a sudden they'd get a ton of deal flow from Microsoft. 57 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:45,000 And I would always tell people like, look, like that's not how this works. 58 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:50,000 Like occasionally you may get something if you if you match up in uh sort of a certain expertise in a certain city. 59 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:57,000 But like vendors and distribution organizations have traditionally very very been been very transactional. 60 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:06,000 And I also feel like that's a part of what I see is the the marketplace has the potential to change where it is actually sort of servicing the needs on a more localized basis. 61 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,000 And there's potential for actual business to flow through from that. 62 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,000 Do you think that's true? 63 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,000 Yeah, absolutely. 64 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:16,000 Like probably more so than ever before because if you think about, you know, kind of traditional distribution. 65 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,000 The big value back in the day was pick pack ship. 66 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:28,000 You know, here's the product, store it for me because we don't have the facility, deliver it directly to this because I don't want to deal with the shipping of it or the size of it or whatever. 67 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,000 And then the MSP shows up on site and does the implementation. 68 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:35,000 Um, that's not kind of the way anymore, especially when you comes to SAS. 69 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:42,000 So, you know, what is the value of what it is that we can do both from the MSP perspective as well as the vendor perspective. 70 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:49,000 Um, vendors, uh like any vendor that wants to reach it to the SMB IT is going to have to do it through a managed service provider. 71 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:54,000 The MSPs have established themselves as the go-to for everything SMB IT. 72 00:08:54,000 --> 00:09:04,000 So, you know, from that perspective is how do how do we get all like best and breed technology, best and breed innovation into the hands of the MSPs so that they can go and sell it to those SMBs. 73 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:11,000 Um, but then, you know, I think the big pivot here is the way in which people are consuming these things. 74 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,000 And there's there's kind of two factors in my mind that change this, right? 75 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,000 Number one was the pandemic. 76 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:22,000 We all immediately had to find different ways of consuming the things that we did before in a world where we could physically go and see each other. 77 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:26,000 But now we're being forced to do it without physically seeing each other. 78 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,000 And it's testing the fences on things that we weren't necessarily comfortable with. 79 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:34,000 Buying things online without like sight unseen. 80 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:39,000 So the idea that, you know, now all of a sudden, we don't have a choice. 81 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:40,000 You want to consume this, you're going to have to do it. 82 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:45,000 But then once you venture down into that world and get super comfortable with buying a shirt that you haven't tried on, right? 83 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:52,000 Uh you know, in all honesty, I actually bought a car online for the first time without even test driving it this weekend. 84 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:56,000 And went through the entire process without talking to a single individual. 85 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:04,000 Now, as an IT provider, as an MSP, you know, that should scare the crap out of us from the perspective that people are going to start doing things without talking to the experts. 86 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:10,000 But as a consumer, and you know, from an IT perspective, as an MSP delivering services to your clients. 87 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:16,000 Once they are doing those things, anything that they can do from a self-help perspective is only going to save on your bottom line. 88 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,000 So there's pros and cons here through all of this. 89 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:26,000 I think, you know, what's important is is that, you know, people are still going to the SMB IT provider, the MSP throughout this entire process. 90 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:31,000 And and some of the things that we are doing from a technology standpoint is going to continue to put that MSP in the center. 91 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:36,000 And that means, um making sure that vendors A have that delivery mechanism via the MSP. 92 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,000 Which Pax 8 can do. 93 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:46,000 Um B, that consumers can actually go and do their own research, uh take a look at user ratings, other reviews. 94 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,000 Like a lot of people want to do those things on their own. 95 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,000 And again, you know, we talked about how the pandemic kind of forced us to do that. 96 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:56,000 Um I don't know about you, but I'm buying more and pretty much everything from Amazon these days rather than going to individual stores. 97 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:05,000 Um and then the the other part of that too is, um the next generation, the Gen Zers, the ones that the kids that we're all raising, um and coddling and protecting from the the whole wide world. 98 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:11,000 And, you know, they don't like engaging to and talking to sales people. 99 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:15,000 They mean they barely like talking to any human beings outside of social media. 100 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:21,000 So, you know, we've got all these conditions that are starting to impact the buyer journey here. 101 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:26,000 And we need to create ways in which these buyers continue to buy, but it still continues to come through the managed service provider as the expert. 102 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:35,000 Otherwise, there's going to be absolute chaos when it comes to things like cyber security and and what's the right product at the right price and who do I call when crap starts falling apart. 103 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,000 So, you know, that's the front end of it. 104 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:42,000 But then if you think about the back end of it, the back end of it is we have all these consumers that are trying to purchase something. 105 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:46,000 Should be through an MSP, but there's no way or that there isn't kind of that connection. 106 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:56,000 And that's another place that marketplace kind of differentiates itself from distribution where not only are we attracting MSPs to come and take a look and buying technology through our platform. 107 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:05,000 But now we're actually offering end users the alternative to find an MSP through our platform and that is also in vendors to find MSPs to sell their stuff to end users that are talking to them. 108 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:11,000 So, you know, it's kind of tying all of this together. 109 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:16,000 It's utilizing newer technologies like AI, um like the way in which we're changing buying. 110 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:21,000 And and the preference in which we're buying, so it's kind of leveraging a lot of very new things and in an area that could potentially be really disruptive. 111 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:29,000 So, like obviously you guys are bringing a lot to the table in market exchange and being able to have vendors find providers. 112 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:36,000 And uh, you know, sourcing and matching and and creating a bit of this network effect within the system, which I think is valuable. 113 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:40,000 I think some people may be a little a little wary of that. 114 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,000 It sounds sort of like uh a little scary. 115 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:48,000 Um, the other side of this though, I think is like what you noted is the the sort of the anti-social selling. 116 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:53,000 And like what worked from a sales perspective kind of doesn't work in general anymore. 117 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:57,000 Um, so, you know, what are you seeing uh people successful at, the growing MSPs? 118 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:06,000 Like what are the sales tactics that they are leveraging in an anti-social age sort of before we're sort of getting to what you guys are building with marketplaces and matching? What do you see works right now? 119 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:12,000 It's actually it's it's we're kind of at this moment in time between uh generational shift, right? 120 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,000 A lot of us are are Gen Xers that are kind of in this space right now. 121 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,000 And, you know, we're technically not afraid of anything. 122 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:26,000 You've got the millennials that kind of have come in through and they're they're kind of a blend between the Gen Xers and the Gen Zers and then the Gen Zers that are coming in, which are completely terrified of their own shadows. 123 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:35,000 So, it's a matter that trying to and where the like to answer your question, what are the successful MSPs doing? It's kind of like trying multiple ways to try to attract it. 124 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:43,000 Because by no means am I suggesting that a touchless, humanless process is going to help you grow your MSP today. 125 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:48,000 Because you still need uh to appeal towards the 50, 60-year-old business owners. 126 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:53,000 The 40-year-old business owners, you know, and then you've got your 20s and 30s and then you've got the next generation. 127 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,000 So it's also almost like a multi-pronged approach. 128 00:13:55,000 --> 00:14:00,000 You know, you have to kind of be everything to everybody at this particular moment and kind of offer. 129 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:04,000 You know, do you want to come into the auto dealership and test drive this? 130 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:10,000 Do you want to just, you know, test drive a car and then buy it online or do you want to not touch this or talk to anybody? 131 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,000 You know, and have options for all three of those types of consumers. 132 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,000 Right. 133 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:18,000 So I guess we'll have uh VR uh test drives in the future maybe as well. 134 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,000 Maybe. 135 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,000 You know, I'm kind of tried this out on a lark. 136 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,000 I have a really old uh truck. 137 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:28,000 Um I have four daughters that I raised and all four of them um learned how to drive this truck. 138 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,000 I always felt like if they could drive a pickup truck, they could drive anything, right? 139 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:34,000 And now it's uh it's about 14 years old and it's beaten to hell. 140 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,000 And it's starting to become one of those things where it's cost more to maintain than it does to keep. 141 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:43,000 So I'm thinking I got to replace it and I'm like, here's a perfect opportunity to kind of test those. 142 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:48,000 Like I personally would much rather go to a dealership and meet somebody and test drive a car. 143 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,000 But like I'm sure all of us have had, we've all had bad experiences doing that. 144 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:56,000 Um the sales rep is only selling kind of what's in inventory or if you want to build it from scratch. 145 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:02,000 And then all of a sudden you drive it off the lot and you've lost 20% in value almost immediately. 146 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,000 So, you know, it's all that crap that we have to deal with or had to deal with and now you've got alternatives. 147 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,000 So buying a car site unseen, I was out with my buddies on the weekend and I told them that I did this. 148 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,000 And they thought it was crazy that they would never do that. 149 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,000 But they're also well into their 50s, right? 150 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:19,000 So, you know, meanwhile, I'm telling my 18-year-old daughter this and she's like, yeah, like is that not how you normally do it? 151 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,000 So, you know, it's it's kind of being that thing for everybody everywhere. 152 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:29,000 So, I think this lends well into one of the other things I wanted to to bat around with you is MSPs and AI, right? 153 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:38,000 Because what I see, uh I've I've sort of uh apologized for anyone listening that's heard me sort of rant on this before. 154 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,000 But uh just to so you're you're you get sort of my prediction on this. 155 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:49,000 I sent an email two years ago with my time scale of implications for AI as it started to roll out just after Chat GPT kind of became sort of very well recognized. 156 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,000 And what I suggested is one to three years is throwing spaghetti at the wall and it's an experimentation phase where things sort of show up, like sometimes it's cute and useful, but, you know, it doesn't really sort of stick. 157 00:15:50,000 --> 00:16:01,000 That three to five year range where we're starting to get into is where things actually start to show up and there's real use cases that start to cement themselves in workflows and business process and it becomes quite useful. 158 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:08,000 And then the five to 10 year time frame, uh is a little more unpredictable, but we're starting to slide towards it. 159 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:15,000 Where, you know, ultimately, my guess is is that AI will decimate a lot of help desks. 160 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,000 And people sort of hear that and could be fearful. 161 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,000 My point in saying that is like, this is a business shift, right? 162 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:26,000 Like we're in the same position we were back in the day, uh when Microsoft released Bpos. 163 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:33,000 And all of the exchange admins were like, oh my God, you don't understand how much money I make from exchange maintenance and upgrades and hosting. 164 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:34,000 They're killing my business. 165 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,000 How can I survive on these margins? 166 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,000 Like no one does that anymore and it's not like anyone's gone out of business. 167 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,000 The market has dramatically grown. 168 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,000 Right? 169 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:50,000 So I think because of the changes with the the abilities of chatbots, the preferences of the modern generations where they'll go to a chatbot. 170 00:16:50,000 --> 00:17:00,000 Probably solve 50 to 70% of their own issues, then we'll be kind of escalation text and I'll focused a lot more on consulting. 171 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:01,000 That's sort of my prediction. 172 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:02,000 What's your take on that, Rob? 173 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:03,000 Completely agree. 174 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,000 Uh completely agree. 175 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,000 And and we've seen this evolution over the years. 176 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,000 Um the uh you think about the adoption of cloud. 177 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:18,000 I mean, your timeline is kind of very, very, very similar to what we went through when we were first initially talking about cloud. 178 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,000 Cloud is and I guess somewhat similar to AI. 179 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:29,000 It's kind of always been around, uh or it's it's not kind of like this new, new, new thing. 180 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:33,000 It's just all of a sudden getting um recognition as something that we can actually move forward with. 181 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:40,000 Uh I belong to a um a number of boards, one of which is the I'm on the board of directors for uh CompTIA. 182 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:47,000 And we get together and we talk about these different concepts and what we're seeing in all the different spaces uh throughout IT, throughout the world. 183 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:55,000 And, you know, I'm sitting there and we're having these conversations and I'm reminiscing to the or thinking about when the internet first kind of came. 184 00:17:55,000 --> 00:18:02,000 And and there must have been a group of executives similar to ours that are sitting around a table going, what's this internet thing and how's it going to change our world? 185 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,000 And, you know, the initial human reaction is always towards fear. 186 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:12,000 And I actually um uh will quote John Oliver on this, if you're a this week tonight fan, he actually did a segment on AI. 187 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:19,000 And he talks about how AI is going to change white collar jobs the same way, um the industrial revolution changed blue collar jobs. 188 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,000 But guess what? 189 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:24,000 Our lives are going to get better, we're going to adapt, we just need to retrain ourselves on other ways. 190 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:29,000 Or similar to what you're saying, we have to figure out ways in which we can leverage this and make things better. 191 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,000 We did that with the cloud. 192 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,000 You know, we did that with exchange. 193 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:33,000 You're absolutely right. 194 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:38,000 Everybody was panicking, yet, arguably, MSPs are making more money than ever before right now. 195 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,000 Um by simply commoditizing things that we've just used to make a ton of money at. 196 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,000 It's always been about evolution. 197 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:49,000 And I think that as long as we continue to stay open-minded, as long as we continue to stay on that cutting edge. 198 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,000 As long as we try not to fight the machines too much, uh then we can continue to win. 199 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,000 Yeah. 200 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,000 Skynet images and fighting the machines definitely. 201 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,000 Comes to mind. 202 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:02,000 Exactly. 203 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,000 Well, yeah, I think like the consulting aspect I think is massive, right? 204 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:12,000 Because the thing that that I I've sort of chatted with a few people about that I think is sort of an untapped area here is consulting on AI, right? 205 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,000 Like a lot of people, like they think this stuff is neat and cool. 206 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:20,000 Uh maybe they have some ideas of how to implement this in their business. 207 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:27,000 You know, I think a lot of people doing consulting around uh basically the the Microsoft 365 stack with co-pilot implementations. 208 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:36,000 The people that are early to market on those types of things and develop an AI practice within their consulting group, I think are going to be off to the races, right? 209 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:48,000 Like it's a bit of an arms race as far as development of the practices around these things and being able to enable both a small business, but also so those mid-tier towards enterprise. 210 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,000 Uh and I think that that's a massive opportunity. 211 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:57,000 What's your thought on that and maybe any other areas that you feel like MSPs are should be sort of eyeing as the next growth cycle for them? 212 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:04,000 Yeah, I'm a little more conservative than you are. I'm a little less bullish on it because I think these things. 213 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:11,000 Especially in the SMB realm where MSPs play, have a tendency to take a very long time around adoption. 214 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:16,000 And I think the most important part isn't, you know, as cool and sexy as all of this is. 215 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,000 We also still have to figure out a way to make money at it. 216 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,000 And I think that's going to be the key. 217 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,000 Once we figure out how to make money and I do agree with you. 218 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:31,000 I think the consulting aspect of that is probably going to be the low hanging fruit when it comes to uh making money here before we can actually commoditize it with product. 219 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:36,000 Because I don't think everybody's making a ton of money off of co-pilot sales at this particular point. 220 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:42,000 So, I think that there is um going to be significant opportunity as time goes on. 221 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,000 More so, you know, I think at this point, uh I think the idea of being open-minded. 222 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:52,000 And taking those calls, I still run into MSPs that avoid having this conversation with their end users around AI. 223 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:58,000 Or will tell their their end users just stay away from it because they themselves haven't kind of figured it out yet. 224 00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,000 I think that's a massive mistake. 225 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:06,000 I think that as um we want those communities coming to us as the experts, as the real-time experts. 226 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,000 You know, you think about that in comparison to an in-house IT person. 227 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:18,000 You know, we have a competitive advantage or a significant advantage from an education standpoint to be able to learn these things on the fly fast from vendors, from each other. 228 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:24,000 Whereas, you know, nobody else is necessarily going to be able to learn this as fast. 229 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,000 Uh but then we need to find the application in the SMB space. 230 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:34,000 So, you know, in my mind, it's more like let's forge forward, but let's continue to to uh look for the opportunities to make money. 231 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,000 And again, I'll I'll draw the correlation to the cloud. 232 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:45,000 When when the cloud first came out, you had some early adopters of CSPs, cloud solution providers, uh none of which I know are still in business. 233 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,000 You know, you don't necessarily want to be the first one jumping in. 234 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:53,000 Um, but I I agree, like dabbling with it, playing with it, having some type of practice with it. 235 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,000 And there is money to be made from a consultation standpoint right now, but continue to evolve it. 236 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,000 Like don't throw away the baby with the bath water quite yet, right? 237 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,000 Because we still need to have those kind of legacy models. 238 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:09,000 And, you know, I wouldn't necessarily go all in with AI, same same as I didn't go all in with cloud. 239 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,000 It's going to be an adoption, it's going to be a kind of an evolution as time goes on. 240 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,000 Other things that, you know, I'm kind of seeing out there. 241 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,000 There's obviously co-managed IT. 242 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,000 We've been talking about it again for a number of years. 243 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:26,000 Now running into uh some MSPs that are turning down MSP opportunities in favor of co-managed opportunities. 244 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,000 That's super interesting because that kind of you know, it's kind of always been lingering around. 245 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:33,000 We've been talking about it probably for about four or five years. 246 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:40,000 Uh and now all of a sudden, it seems to be really catching on and we've all figured out how to make money. 247 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,000 How to position it, how to sell it, how to overcome those objections, all those types of things. 248 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:50,000 So, you know, I'm starting to see more and more co-managed revenue uh within MSPs, which I think is a fantastic thing for our space. 249 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,000 Then, you know, I'll throw something slightly controversial at you here. 250 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:58,000 Argument, I haven't necessarily seen it. I've got no data that backs this up. 251 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,000 But it's an interesting argument, which is, you know, when the cloud first started coming out. 252 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:08,000 The adoption of the cloud was uh to make life easier, better, faster, sexier, more lucrative and more secure. 253 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:15,000 We it's now been 15 years and it's safe to say that we haven't necessarily accomplished all those things with cloud. 254 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:23,000 So there's an argument in the SMB space that perhaps going back to an on prem or encouraging to continue to support an on prem will make it more lucrative, more secure, those kinds of things. 255 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:29,000 So, you know, that's something that's it's an interesting debate and by no means am I saying rip your cloud out and start buying servers again. 256 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:36,000 But um there's an argument there to be made that maybe the maybe the cloud isn't necessarily the best route to market for SMBs in particular. 257 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,000 It's an interesting conversation. 258 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,000 Yeah, I think that is interesting, right? 259 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:45,000 Like um, you know, the more concentration within each of these cloud platforms does create some systemic risk. 260 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:52,000 And if we sort of expand uh sort of our threat scenarios out here, like state actors potentially kind of actually breaching one of these platforms. 261 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:57,000 And have making a really bad week for literally everybody at this point is I think somewhat probable, right? 262 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:02,000 And it's also it goes towards I think what you tend to see in the history of IT. 263 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:08,000 Like people that are like sort of us that have been in the IT space for long enough, you see this what I call this expansion and contraction. 264 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:15,000 Where like everything sort of, you know, everything has to be on site, everything's local and then it explodes out and, you know, we go from micro servers to uh to terminal servers. 265 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,000 And then everything is back to PC server and then back to cloud, right? 266 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,000 And then it collapses back to whatever it is in the future, right? 267 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,000 So I think that's a very real potential, but definitely controversial, I agree. 268 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,000 I mean, that's why we have these conversations, right? 269 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,000 It would just be uninteresting if we agreed with each other the entire time. 270 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,000 Yeah, go to pontificate for sure. 271 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:38,000 The other thing I I did want to talk to you about is, you know, one of the things that you're very well recognized for in the channel is your success with events. 272 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:44,000 With uh things like Datacon, it was absolutely considered one of the premier events to attend. 273 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,000 Now at Pax 8, you're building Pax 8 Beyond. 274 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:55,000 Uh this episode will probably go live post the event, unfortunately, if anyone is not getting there, but but uh definitely sort of rising as one of the premier events in the channel. 275 00:24:55,000 --> 00:25:02,000 And I'm curious to get your perspective from running Datacon pre and then through COVID had to be incredibly challenging. 276 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:09,000 And then how things are different both attendance, you know, what the style of the event looks like, what works, what doesn't. 277 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,000 What has COVID changed about sort of industry events from your perspective? 278 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,000 It's a good question. 279 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,000 And yes, absolutely. 280 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:21,000 I ran probably about 15 Datacons while I was over there, both in Europe as well as uh in North America. 281 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,000 Beyond is uh Pax 8's event. 282 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,000 We did our inaugural one in 2023. 283 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,000 No one at uh Pax 8 had done anything like this before. 284 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,000 So they were a little bit nervous. 285 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,000 I myself was like, this is a no-brainer, it's easy. 286 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,000 And uh we did it and it was phenomenal and we're doing it again. 287 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:42,000 And and as you mentioned, this is probably going to post after beyond, which is in June in Denver in 2024. 288 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,000 Which is probably a good thing because we're already sold out. 289 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,000 So I don't have any more. 290 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:47,000 Perfect. 291 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,000 Sign up for 2025. 292 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,000 Sign up for 2025. 293 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:51,000 Um, so what's changed? 294 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,000 It took a gosh. 295 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,000 It was hard because, you know, we had these live events. 296 00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:01,000 And it's a way for us to get together, obviously as a community and learn. 297 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,000 It's a way for the vendors to get leads, it's a way for the MSPs to find new tech. 298 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,000 And then all of a sudden we go into the virtual world and everybody's attending webinars. 299 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:15,000 At least out of the gate, you're getting thousands of people to show up to a webinar that you used to get tens of people to show up to. 300 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:21,000 So, uh there was a lot, especially from my perspective, where I really enjoy the face-to-face connections. 301 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:27,000 A lot of fear from my perspective that this might be the whole new world where everybody is doing everything. 302 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,000 You know, virtually and chatting in chat rooms and video calls. 303 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:38,000 I think that uh what's flushed through is that, you know, now that everything's open up again and live events are happening again, people are coming out. 304 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,000 Uh and if anything, probably cherishing and valuing it a little bit more. 305 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,000 Physically, these events cost a hell of a lot more. 306 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,000 For some reason, food and beverage is up significantly. 307 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,000 And I think it's a condition of a lot of those industries, hotels, conference centers. 308 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,000 A lot of them suffered serious job loss during the pandemic. 309 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:01,000 People had to go and find other alternatives for work and they just haven't come back to the hospitality industry. 310 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:06,000 So there is a lot more money that's having to be shelled out, which means the cost of executing these events. 311 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:12,000 Which means the cost for to attend these events, including hotel rooms and flights, it tends to be a little bit more at this particular point. 312 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,000 But I do envision that coming back down as we all settle back in. 313 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,000 I think that there's more events now than there was in 2019. 314 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,000 If that's a thing, at least myself. 315 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:29,000 You know, we used to all say uh as vendors, we used to all say goodbye to each other at uh IT Nation, which was generally the second week of November. 316 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,000 Because we wouldn't see each other again till February. 317 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:35,000 Now we all work till the day before Christmas and we're right back at it on Jan 2nd. 318 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,000 So, you know, there's too many, almost too many events. 319 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:41,000 I know I've got uh three events in one week coming up in a couple weeks. 320 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,000 So there's no shortage of things that you could physically go to. 321 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,000 And I'm a huge fan of being able to physically go to these things. 322 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:53,000 But there's also a lot that they need to do better from a quality uh content uh perspective. 323 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,000 Um and the value because now MSPs have got a ton of choice as to where they want to go. 324 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:03,000 Um obviously, I think that the user conferences, if you know, find the vendors that you're using and go to their conferences. 325 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:08,000 Uh I think that's probably the most valuable use of an MSP's time. 326 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:15,000 If I'm investing $10,000, $20,000, $30,000 a month in this particular vendor, I want to see what the road map is. 327 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,000 I want to see where they're spending their money. 328 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:18,000 That's where the a lot of the value. 329 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,000 Um I think that the local meetups as well. 330 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,000 You and I, you know, chatted at a local ASCII event because I'm based in Connecticut, so for me it was an easy drive. 331 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:30,000 You know, I think those local meetups are also important because you get an opportunity to meet with the uh actual individual local MSPs. 332 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,000 Like some peers, potential peers around. 333 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:38,000 So, you know, there's still significant value out there, but the great news is there's a lot of choice. 334 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:46,000 Uh you just kind of got to weed through what it is that your needs are in order to be able to to pick what event you want to go to or how long you want to spend on it or how much you want to spend on it. 335 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:51,000 Yeah, like do you have any like one of the things I've seen, curious on your perspective on this is like because there is so much competition in the event space. 336 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:58,000 Uh like a good example is like Nerdiocon is a destination, right? And, you know, uh do you have any plans maybe potentially sort of like destination type events? 337 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:05,000 Either as a premier event, I know like Denver makes sense for Pax because Pax because you guys are there. 338 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:10,000 Um but uh what's your perspective on some of the I would say sort of the burgeoning idea of destination style events? 339 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,000 Good question. 340 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,000 So I am a fan of moving it every single year. 341 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:14,000 There is no doubt about that. 342 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:20,000 Because I think the opportunity to go to a different city or potentially a city that you've never been to before. 343 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:25,000 And, you know, I'll draw back to Datacon 2016 where we actually did it in Nashville, Tennessee. 344 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,000 There's a lot of MSPs that is then I've never been to Nashville. 345 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:32,000 A lot of our foreign uh partners, British partners were like, why would you drag me to country music central and not interested? 346 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,000 And then they get there and absolutely fall in love with the city. 347 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:40,000 To the point where I know a bunch of uh British, for example, that go back there and vacation there with their families. 348 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:45,000 So, you know, I'm a big fan of if, you know, it's part of the opportunity, it's part of the experience. 349 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,000 Just to potentially go to a city that you wouldn't necessarily go to. 350 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:53,000 Um Denver, uh when I joined the organization, yes, we are a Denver-based company. 351 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:59,000 Um and we had signed a three-year contract with the Gaylord there in Denver, which is a phenomenal facility. 352 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,000 Uh but, you know, we're debating as to what we're going to do post 2026 with it. 353 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,000 Um our European conferences are moving around uh for beyond. 354 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,000 And of course with that we moved it around. 355 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,000 So, you know, I think that's all part of the actual experience. 356 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,000 You think about um other events, you know, one that's in Orlando every single year. 357 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,000 It just kind of feels the same every single year. 358 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,000 So, you know, I'm a big fan of moving that around. 359 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,000 As far as destinations go, you start running into logistic issues. 360 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,000 Um first of all, passports. 361 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,000 Everybody has passports, right? 362 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:29,000 Um Cyber QP is actually doing an event in Puerto Rico, which is going to be interesting. 363 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,000 Because I don't think you need a passport, don't quote me, an American passport to go to Puerto Rico. 364 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,000 I think you're right. 365 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,000 So, you know, that's going to be interesting because you got an island destination, but you don't necessarily have to have a passport. 366 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,000 Whereas uh Nerdio did it in the Dominican Republic, so you would need one. 367 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,000 Um the quality of food goes down significantly. 368 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,000 And as much as we're here to learn and talk about IT, you know, the dining experience goes down. 369 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,000 And then the luxury experience potentially goes down a lot of these things. 370 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,000 You know, you're in a you're in a different country and sometimes that makes it a little bit more difficult. 371 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:57,000 But at the same time, who can argue with uh 85 degrees and nothing but sun all day too. 372 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,000 So, 373 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,000 You know, it can go either way. 374 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,000 I see a lot of this debate about doing one on a cruise ship. 375 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,000 I personally am not a fan of cruise ships for various reasons. 376 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,000 I would be with you on that as well. 377 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:09,000 Yeah. 378 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:14,000 One of the things that I remind everybody of is like we complain about hotel Wi-Fi when we're in downtown Chicago. 379 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:21,000 Imagine being in the middle of the Atlantic and complaining about Wi-Fi, you know, we're so connected and need that connection. 380 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:27,000 That's just issue number one that you might run into if you're on a boat somewhere in the middle of the ocean. 381 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:35,000 Yeah, just imagine 3,000, 3,500 nerds all trying to use the same satellite connection, right? Bad times. 382 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,000 Yeah, disaster. 383 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:38,000 Yeah. 384 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,000 I do love the idea of the conferences moving around, right? 385 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,000 Because I'm on the extreme West Coast of Canada. 386 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,000 Uh and getting to, you know, Florida, uh seems like every conference is is contractually obligated to be in Florida, it seems. 387 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:53,000 So, uh getting to Florida is a bit of a trek, right? And I would love to see more in California. 388 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:59,000 Even Las Vegas, you know, like there's a couple that happen there, but it it seems like a premier destination that would make sense. 389 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,000 But there doesn't seem to be a lot of industry conferences out west, unfortunately. 390 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,000 Well, so it's you go to where the MSPs are. 391 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,000 And unfortunately in the north, northwestern part of the United States. 392 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:10,000 True. 393 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,000 There aren't a ton of MSPs. 394 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,000 Like as far as when when you do some heat mapping, you get into Southern California, yes. 395 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,000 Yep. 396 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,000 Yes, I do agree with you. 397 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,000 But Southern California also has a tendency to be a little more expensive. 398 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,000 The other issue that you've got is weather. 399 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:23,000 Nobody wants to deal with winter. 400 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,000 For sure. 401 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:28,000 So in the winter time, we have a tendency to go into the Texas, California, kind of Florida parts. 402 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:33,000 In the uh summer summertime is when we have a tendency to go into the New New Jersey, Chicago. 403 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,000 Those kind of northern parts. 404 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:41,000 I actually do want to bring our conference to Vancouver at some point in time because I think that would be an amazing opportunity for MSPs to go and see that and live that. 405 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,000 But yeah, it's hard. 406 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,000 And then there's a lot, you know, like if you're in a union town, you've got to deal with additional expenses there. 407 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,000 So there's a lot of other factors that kind of come into play, um when planning a conference that way. 408 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,000 Vegas, I'm not a fan. 409 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:56,000 Uh because there's so many distractions in Vegas, there's so many things, other things that you could be doing. 410 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:57,000 Good point. 411 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,000 Hard to find people when you're at the same conference. 412 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:07,000 I don't know if you've ever been to one of those big conferences in Vegas where, you know, everybody's kind of just staying at their favorite hotel. 413 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,000 And then you never actually see that person, you know, during the course of the conference. 414 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,000 You know, so there's there's pros and cons. 415 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:12,000 That's a good point actually. 416 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:17,000 Like I obviously the distraction of uh the casinos and too much drinking, not that that is uh is a thing that that doesn't happen at the other conferences too, right? 417 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,000 But um, yeah, I went to a Microsoft conference in Vegas once. 418 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,000 And, you know, it was pandemonium and you're right, like I saw one person. 419 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:28,000 Uh a couple of times and that was it. And otherwise just like cattle moving from one location to the other. 420 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,000 Just uh like the volume of people was unbelievable. 421 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,000 Yeah. 422 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:34,000 Yeah, it is. 423 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,000 And then yeah, just trying to match up and meet up with somebody could be potentially incredibly difficult. 424 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,000 Okay. 425 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:40,000 Cool. 426 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,000 Uh this has been awesome. 427 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,000 I appreciate your insights, Rob. 428 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:52,000 Uh is there any sort of parting words of wisdom, any um things that you want to see in the channel or things that you would sort of call to action for people in the channel this year? 429 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,000 I guess, you know, and it's something that we all suffer from. 430 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,000 Especially as we get older. 431 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,000 And, you know, I've tried to run this with my life in particular. 432 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:05,000 We're in a space right now where we're supposed to be very forward thinking, innovative technology people that are are constantly looking at what's next. 433 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,000 But human tendency is, you know, we we want to get lazy, we want to stick with what we know. 434 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,000 You know, we resist change. 435 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,000 I mean, that's just human nature, that's fine. 436 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,000 I think we're in a state right now where we're going to go through some significant change. 437 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,000 I mean, you and I talked about a lot of that during the course of this actual call. 438 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:25,000 And, you know, sure, there's been a lot of change of our industry over the last little while. 439 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,000 But I think there's a number of particular points that are kind of coming to a head here. 440 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:33,000 And I think that the opportunity for the managed service provider is still greater than ever before. 441 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,000 Um I think there's still massive growth opportunities in this space. 442 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:40,000 Everyone seems to be doing extremely well, that that's what I'm talking to MSPs worldwide. 443 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:41,000 That's what I'm experiencing. 444 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,000 So, you know, we're kind of like, you know, is there's anything I was just keep going. 445 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:50,000 Just keep on top of it, don't stop learning, don't stop moving, don't get negative. 446 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:55,000 You know, I think if we all do those things, we're going to continue to thrive in this space and there's going to be lots more of that opportunity to go. 447 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,000 I love it. 448 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,000 That's a great place to end it and totally agree. 449 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,000 Thanks again, Rob. 450 00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,000 Appreciate your time. 451 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:00,000 Any time. 452 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:00,000 Thank you.