Tiffany(00:00:00):
Holy mackerel. I just had a marathon session with Lean In Make Bank graduate Susannah Horwitz, you listened to her back in 2021, you loved her. She's back to talk about what life is like after the fee raise. After the premium fee journey. I mean, it never ends, but when you're confidently, she's now confidently staunchly rested in her 300 to $450 fee range. She has no one she sees under $300. What is that life like? She started out on, you know, Medicaid with $70 sessions, $80 sessions back in 2020. And here she is three years later, charging no less than $300 per session. By the way, hi, my name is Tiffany McLain, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, creator of the Lean In, Make Bank Academy, where we help therapists go on the exact journey that I just described with Susannah. In this episode, we're gonna talk about really like what is life like as one is going on, the premium feed journey, what is really at stake?
Tiffany(00:01:02):
What does the work really entail? What does it look like? Once one is a couple of years into doing this work we're gonna talk about it all. Like what does it look like to live this way? In this episode I'm gonna pose a question to Susannah. You know, sometimes often before therapists do this premium fee work before they really get clear about their money stuff and how it's showing up in many aspects of their lives they might look at or hear a podcast like this and say, is this real? Are these people really doing this? Or they may have of a therapist who's charging, you know, $300 on one end and a hundred dollars, well, probably not a hundred, but maybe $200 on the other end. And they say, you know, that therapist isn't really charging 300. This is all a scam.
Tiffany(00:01:48):
This is all a, this is all nonsense. And I get those doubts, right? Like, it's like how from one side it's like, how are people really doing this? What is the change people are really making? And in this episode, we talk about it. Susannah talks about, I say this all the time, folks, but I think it gets lost because our minds do all kinds of wacky stuff. Yes, it's about the money. Yes, it's about the fact that she can charge $450 for a 90 minute session, but that's not really what this work is about. This work is about who we become by virtue of doing, by virtue of doing the difficult thing, who we become by virtue of saying internal and external expectations have placed this limit on me. I'm gonna go for something different. One of the things I've noticed over the past seven years of doing this work is that when therapists are just overworking, underearning, burnt out, stressed, scared about their financial situation, it feels like, oh, I just wanna work less and be able to buy my house or just have more free time.
Tiffany(00:02:54):
But in reality, I've seen over and over again, the therapists actually keep themselves in a state of running stress overworking underearning as a way to, to avoid facing themselves as a way to avoid looking at their marriage and saying something needs to be addressed here as a way of looking at their, the way they're showing up as parents and saying, oh, I'm repeating patterns that were done to me as a way of looking at one's own family. Maybe your own parents, your own siblings, and saying, oh, I'm not putting boundaries there. Or, I'm using my work as a way to enforce boundaries that I can't actually enforce myself. We don't just do this stuff. We don't just end up in this place. Oh, like Kamala says, I don't know when this episode's coming out at the time I'm recording. It's August, 2024. But Kamala, I love what she said around her, what her mom would say. ,
Tiffany(00:03:51):
Who do you think you just fell out of a coconut tree? Right? Where do you think you come from? You are a product of all that came before you and everything that has led up to this moment. And I wanna say the same for you, therapist. If you are working crazy hours, if you're constantly stressed about money, I want you to consider that that's an unconscious way to avoid looking at some difficult aspects of your context. There's a reason you're here. If you wanna do the hard work of getting somewhere else, of doing something different, then I encourage you to do so. And this episode with Susannah will walk you through what it looks like, how it feels, what are the ups and downs of really committing to premium fees. Not simply because it's about the money and premium fees are a thing in of itself, of themselves.
Tiffany(00:04:43):
But because premium fees are a symbol of the next level of growth, the next phase of emotional, psychological change, transformation. If you're curious, I always have people start with our fee calculator. You can go to leaninmakebank.com/free. I have people start with that because this number is such a symbol. This fee is such a symbol. And I always want people to start with their dreams and their desires, what they really want for themselves as far as they consciously know at this time. And to see the number that that, that all that work symbolizes it's all in that number. That number, whether that's 200/session or whether that's 450/session, that number is a symbol for the parts of yourself that you have not yet been ready to look at. And taking the step to get that number is a symbol of a commitment to taking a look at reality. The parts of reality, at least saying, I'm willing to take a little look at where I might be able to go, the parts of myself I might be willing to look at. Go to lean in, make bank.com/fee. Check it out, folks. I didn't know we were gonna go here today. Let's dive in.
Intro (00:06:03):
I think there's a difference between saying what your fee is and like fully committing to it. I believe in this like law of attraction, but you also have to take action. I don't think I do enough to help other people despite being, despite being a therapist, I was worried that I'd end up only serving wealthy people.
You know, I was being so delusional about my actual cost, right? I wasn't actually paying myself a real salary. Now that I am charging more, I'm not lying to myself.
This is ridiculous. Completely broke, man. If people knew who they were, I wouldn't do what she's doing. Like she's doing this.
Tiffany(00:06:44):
Okay folks so Susannah was just dropping golden nuggets. So I'm like, stop talking. You have to say this while we're recording. Susannah's been on in the past. I've known Susannah for a very long time. We work closely together. So we're gonna do our best to stay on track, but we will not. Let's just start by Susannah, you were talking about these reflections of like reflecting on yourself now versus the eight year ago. Susannah. Say a little about that and then we'll dive into our regular questions.
Susannah(00:07:10):
Well, where it started. Hi everybody, and thank you for having me on again, Tiffany, you're the best ever. where it started was when you invited me to be on the podcast back in April of 2021. 'cause It came out in September, but I was interviewing April, 2021. I had only been in Lean and Make Bank for three, four months. Not even, no, you invited me. And then I recorded and I was like, little old me. What does she want me on this podcast for? I haven't done anything. And yet I had been in practice for like 11 years, . And so I realized this, this time when you invited me to be on again and I was like, wow, this is a different experience because now I'm not going just because I know you well. And it, I've, I've grown a lot myself that the therapist and the person that I am now was like, Tiffany, what do you wanna interview me about?
Susannah(00:08:04):
Not because I was worried that I was little old me, but because you know so much about me, you like a lot of things about me. I like a lot of things about myself as a therapist, . And it was just this way of like being like, oh, there's so many things I could talk about. But this reflection that I was doing too was like even just coming here today. I remember listening to the podcast from before, which y'all can listen to if you wanna hear a lot more of my story. I started to have this like trigger of being nervous. Like I was, you know, three, almost three and a half years ago when I did my first ever podcast interview ever. And I have since done like eight, seven or eight of 'em, I don't know a different ones. And I was just starting to be like, oh, that's little therapist from three and a half years ago.
Susannah(00:08:54):
That's being triggered. That's little Susannah. And oh, isn't she so sweet? She, she had confidence, but I have way more confidence now where I was just like, and part of it's the relationship. So I was relating it to yesterday. The same thing happened. I was in my EMDR consultation group and I was recognizing that there was a client I've worked with for a very long time, like over eight years. And she, after many years since the pandemic, like we met in person for a long time, then we met online and we have not seen each other in probably three years. And she was like, I'm ready to do some deeper work and I wanna like meet in person and I'm gonna do the intensivess and all of it. And I was like, Ooh. And so my little part from eight years ago got triggered and was like, I gotta study EMDR when it would be, it is just, it's just us.
Susannah(00:09:45):
And so I was reminded that yesterday to just really take care of these parts that get triggered anytime. And I'm gonna rate, I can relate this to the whole fee raising thing, the parts that get triggered every single time something changes anything, especially if it feels like a big change. And to be able to attend to that part. Like my consultant yesterday, Katie Asus, who is the amazing Katie Asus, she was like, you start with your hand on your heart and just, you know, notice what comes. And I was like, oh, this is all this, this is all the stuff I do. But yeah, I think it's just, it is inevitable that these parts are gonna get triggered anytime we make any kind of change. So there
Tiffany(00:10:33):
Well I think this is gonna end up being a theme of this whole show. The kind of the coming around of the coming around of, and the, I had a particular question from one of our current Lim students who kind of fell off the wagon and, and it's coming back. I'm gonna bring it, I'm gonna bring it to you in a moment. But before we do, I suppose we should tell people who you are. Hi . Where do, are you located? Who do you work with? Let's start with that.
Susannah(00:10:57):
Okay. I , this is always a fun question for me. I can tell you where I'm located. I am located in Golden Colorado, just outside of Denver, here in the foothills on all of the Native American lands that ever were and ever shall be. I could name 'em all, but maybe we can list them later. I am currently, so I've been in practice between where I started in Massachusetts in 2010 and now I have been in private practice for almost 15 years now. And within that have constantly, like I would say almost every three years sort of reinvented something about what I'm doing in practice. And that's why when people ask me who do I work with? Well, currently I think who I'm working with are mostly women in their thirties and forties who have a very difficult time trusting their own intuition. They don't even know if they have it.
Susannah(00:11:56):
Hmm. And also a lot of that is related to body-based trauma. So that could be sexual assault, that could be some sort of accident that they had, some sort of surgeries, some sort of chronic illness or chronic pain. And it's all sort of wrapped up together. And I find that that's just something that comes up as a theme with a lot of people. It may not be become something they immediately come in with. There are also a lot of people who like very much have been rule followers their whole life. Like, I've gotta be good. I'm a good girl. And yet underneath it have always been like, I'm curious about all this stuff that, but I can't do it because then I'll break the rules and I will be bad and people i'll, I'll lose people and then I will be all alone.
Susannah(00:12:44):
. So that's not a nutshell, but that's basically who I love to work with. And a lot of it really is rooted in some attachment and developmental trauma. And so everything that I do and everything that I've ever trained in is really rooted in somatic psychotherapy. But it's, you know, my master's degree in got in 2003 back in the day in expressive arts therapy. Intermodal, intermodal means like all of the different kinds of arts and how they kind of work together with each other. That's a short definition. And then since then, I also have done trainings in all sorts of somatic interventions for trauma. I'm EMDR certified. I just, I'm about to hear about it in the next couple of weeks, but I'm basically psychedelic assisted therapy certified. Just did a whole year long training in that and also have trained in all of the parts work things, but I'm not officially IFS certified. I still still use it.
Tiffany(00:13:42):
You still does it folks. So all
Susannah(00:13:44):
Of the things, there's so many things, nature based, oh, and I forgot about that. That's one of the most important things is just getting outside and being in nature. But I also I was an outdoor educator for many years before I became a therapist. And I found ways to sort of transfer what I was doing in outdoor adventure education to outdoor adventure therapy. And there's lots of people who are doing that too. But I am, I'm an integrative therapist, so I integrate whatever it is that we're gonna pull from my grab bag and it's all gonna melt together. Whatever helps you in the moment. I'm always constantly learning and yeah. Did I forget any of the things that I've trained in? I mean, like so many things I've
Tiffany(00:14:23):
I'm gonna ask you a question about this . Back in 2021, you might hear some, I think a street cleaner is going by folks. So just live with that. Back in 2021 when you, before you had done this work, when you were on the show last time before you had, you'd raised your fees by then the first time. So even like maybe six months before that, before you made these fee changes. Were you EMDR certified yet at that time? No. Mm-Hmm.
Susannah(00:14:46):
Were you I had trained in EMDR, but I wasn't using it that much. Yeah. And to be certified, it's like these different levels. You have to do all this other
Tiffany(00:14:52):
Stuff. So you've got training in EMDR you'd already been doing the nature-based work. You'd been doing that forever. You're outdoors person. Yep. Had you had expressive
Susannah(00:15:03):
Arts therapy,
Tiffany(00:15:03):
Espresso, ar Yep. Expressive arts. Okay. and you were charging when you around 2020, what were your fees? Remind us?
Susannah(00:15:10):
2020 was a range. So my main fee that I would advertise out of pocket was 150 mm-Hmm. . And I did a lot of sliding scale with different people. So maybe my sliding scale was like B 90 mm-Hmm. , I, I worked with programs where like kids could get free like 12 sessions here in this
Tiffany(00:15:32):
County. Did you get paid for that?
Susannah(00:15:33):
I got paid like $70 an hour for that. I worked, I I got onto Medicaid panels. Mm-Hmm. not the panels yet. I was able to get onto Medicaid waivers, which is for people with developmental and physical disabilities. They have all these different things that they gotta put together in this package. And so I got paid through these community center boards that said, okay, she's, they're coming. I had to be real careful with my notes too.
Tiffany(00:15:57):
, how many, how much were you getting paid for that? That
Susannah(00:15:59):
I was getting my full fee. So one 50, they paying me one 50 for an hour. They were also, some of them were able to get some reimbursement for travel 'cause I was traveling Oh, interesting. And driving everywhere, all over the state to like go and meet with people.
Tiffany(00:16:11):
So you weren't getting, you were mostly not getting reimbursed for travel time. So you got one 50 session, but it might take you some time to get there, some time to get back. That was not counted in that. Okay.
Susannah(00:16:19):
But, but then the thing to note is that in 2020, 'cause you said 2020 specifically. Yeah. So before that, that's what was happening. But in 2020, I think it might've been even just a year or two before that the laws changed, where these center boards were not allowed to pay anybody who didn't work specifically for their company, they couldn't contract out anymore. Mm-Hmm. For whatever reason, the laws changed. And they said to me, if you wanna keep working with these people, then you might have to apply to get on these Medicaid panels. So after not being on insurance for a very long time, I was like, well, I really like working with these clients and I don't wanna just cut on out. Like, alright, I, I did it. I was like, I've been on insurance before. I'll just figure this out. Medicaid pays like, not supposed to say, but at the time it was like 80 to 90.
Susannah(00:17:01):
Yeah. Recession and I had already been on one, but for my county, I had to apply to another specific one. And it took, I, I said this in the other podcast, it took me nine months. Mm-Hmm. . So by March, I think it was March, April or May of 2020, they finally were like, you're on it, you're on Medicaid, . And after all that work. And so I kept getting a lot of people. And so those, those fees were lower than what they would've paid me before for those same clients. Wild. That's wild. And I took it 'cause I was like, but I like working with them. So Yeah.
Tiffany(00:17:33):
So you were saying anywhere between 70 and one 50 on the best day. One 50. And so, so the,
Susannah(00:17:39):
I feel like my average was maybe around like one 30 when I averaged all of it together. Maybe, but
Tiffany(00:17:45):
Okay. I mean, you have to have a lot of people in one 50 and, and not very many on 70 or 80 or 90 to get to one 30. So I might even wonder if you really,
Susannah(00:17:51):
It might have been less than 2020. Let's go there .
Tiffany(00:17:54):
I don't know. So,
Susannah(00:17:55):
Because then I, my my income went down that year. That's what
Tiffany(00:17:58):
Happened. That's right. And I remember that in that podcast. So folks, we'll also say, go back and listen. I maybe we should release, drop these one after the other. Actually maybe we'll drop the old episode and this one one week after the other so people could do the comparison. But the thing is, even in, even when you're doing that work, charging between one 50 and Dow all the way down to 70, you already had so much experience you'd already done. Like, you'd already been arts. So, so part of what I wanna think about there is like therapists say, as soon as I get, you know, trained in MDR r as soon as I'm like, you know, done it for 15 years, as soon as then I'll be able to charge premium fees. And that's not actually the thing that does it. So Susannah, it took you something different to be able to charge premium fees.
Tiffany(00:18:36):
It had nothing to do with all of the certifications or trainings or all that you did. We're gonna talk a, we're gonna talk a lot today about the journey after the fee raise. And I'm gonna be asking you some specific questions, none of which I gave you. So I ho you know, whatever notes you wrote in preparation for this episode, throw 'em away because we're going rogue. We're just gonna talk, we're just gonna talk . Most of this folks, you can go back and listen to the original episode to hear how you went from like all over the place, Medicare, da da da to charging. What are your fees today?
Susannah(00:19:07):
My fees today. I love saying this now. And it's so funny, . So I am advertising to new clients. I am only doing 90 minute or more sessions. So my fee for 90 minutes is $450. Holy
Tiffany(00:19:24):
Smokes.
Susannah(00:19:25):
And so yeah, that's what it is.
Tiffany(00:19:28):
. have you gotten folks at that, at that rate yet?
Susannah(00:19:33):
I have it. It has been a sort of, and I've, I've played with this a lot too. It's been a mishmash of people who are like, okay, 450 for like, you know, weekly sessions for maybe like, you know, a month or two months. Then there's been people who've paid four 50 who like have been with me for two or three years weekly. And sometimes they do longer sessions because I'm offering these in, you know, I kind of think of as longer sessions now because I was advertising and I still am intensive packages, but I really realized recently that I like the relationship building of like me being with a client and the trust building over time. And so I find that what I'm doing now is like I'm offering people you know, come for one session. And I've heard some other people say this before, but come for one session at four 50 and then let's kind of like put it together and see what would work best for you and what would work best for my schedule within what you need.
Susannah(00:20:31):
Mm-Hmm. . That's different too because otherwise I would've been like, oh, what works best for you? So yeah, I have, I have in the last, because that, that fee went up for everybody. I think I, I think I started charging new clients that maybe at the end of last year. But any clients who've been with me, everybody shifted to that fee. So some people actually are, who've been with me for a long time, sometimes they're doing an hour session Hmm. Because they're at a place where they're just like, I wanna check in. So they're paying 300 Okay. For those, those sessions. And then other people are, you know, coming in and it's four 50. I do have it where like sometimes people are doing that four 50 for 90 minutes and then they're like, wow, I have the space and time. I wanna be able to do some deeper work.
Susannah(00:21:17):
And I'm like, well, we can do a longer session. And usually that's three hours. 'cause I can kinda, I just love longer sessions for the way that they work for being able to take organic breaks and let people really get into the depths of something and then also close up safely and then be able to just, you know, so yeah. That's, that's how it is. It is. I am still sort of working through that because it's like, it's not just a fee change Mm-Hmm. in the last couple years. Mm-Hmm. it's more like a structural change in how I'm offering therapy that is different than what people are expecting. Like, oh, you're gonna come for 50 minutes a week like that. That's just not gonna happen. When you're working with me,
Tiffany(00:21:56):
What's the, what's the lowest fee you're currently taking?
Susannah(00:22:00):
300.
Tiffany(00:22:02):
Okay. , we had a li student, this, this poor limb student, but also you welcome limb student who I talked with recently, kind of was in and out of the program and is coming back and recommitting and she, she said that she had doubts, she really listened to the money sessions, was inspired by all these therapists. But then she heard a situation where a therapist stated a higher fee, a a a limb grad and then lowered it down. And she, her takeaway from that was, wait, maybe all these stories are phony. Maybe there's no therapists who are charging over 200, let alone two 50 or 300. Like I think that, I think that maybe this is all a lie, maybe none of this is really happening. And I can imagine I can, of course people I was talking to Jesse, who, you know, like I was talking to different on the podcast earlier, and he said, well, ah man, it's not a lie. And, and I also used to have that thought, like, who is this really possible? Is anyone really doing this? So what would you say to somebody who's listening and maybe in a, maybe in a state of like, charging one 50 and like I want more 80 what's possible? And they wonder like, Suzanne, are you really doing this though? Or did you do this once? Or maybe you did it twice, but is this really what your practice looks like consistently? I'm
Susannah(00:23:14):
Glad you're asking this question. 'cause I know this came up a lot when I was a mentor for the Lean Make big program, . Hey everybody. I was a mentor back in the day which wasn't that long ago. But anyway, I think this question has so much nuance to it because when I hear things and people talk about fees, we get caught up in the number and we forget about the individual person's life and we forget about the individual ways that people take this structure that maybe they've learned from Lena May Baker or they've learned from elsewhere and figure out like, how is this gonna work for me? So I know people who have group practices and they can offer their fee. Like let's say their fee is 300, so they offer 300, but their associates or their interns, they can offer lower. And they're still, the, the ultimate thing is that they're making the money that they need that fulfills the things that they want and need in their life.
Susannah(00:24:08):
And for even the employees that they're working with, I am a basically a one person therapist show. So if somebody is coming to work with me, I have to figure out what works with me and my individual life, what is meeting my financial needs and my wants. And that actually is something that has had to shift and change even while I was in the program. And the different times, I, if somebody looks at me and they're like, oh, they might assume that I have like 20 clients a week, that is not the case. I, this week I had three clients scheduled, three . I am joyful about it right now. One of those clients was an hour and a half, so that was $450. Let's just be clear about it. One of those was a person who I've met with for many, many years that I was talking about.
Susannah(00:24:59):
So I don't charge them the package price for a a longer intensive, I charge them that sort of like hourly. So that person was three hours, $900. And then there was one other person who, yeah, they were like $300 because it was like an hour. Oh wait, I take that back. Then there might have been another person that was an hour and a half. Ultimately, I keep looking at these numbers and going, if I had three or four clients in a week when I was on insurance this, I would not be smiling. Right now I have three or four clients in a week. I even, I was saying this the other day, I'm like, at $450 for one client, if that's the only client I have all day. I mean, that's more money than I made in like two days, sometimes even when I had lots of clients in those days.
Susannah(00:25:49):
So I think, and just in answering your question, I feel like people are like, is this really happening? How there's a lot of nuance to how it is happening and what people need in their life. Some people have a spouse who makes money and so they can, they can kind of play with it a little bit more. Mm-Hmm. , I am still the primary earner in my family, but my husband has found some ways to make some money also that he enjoys and fulfills him. You know, it's not like , he's not the breadwinner, but like excited here and there and doing kind of the same thing where he's like, wow, these people are working here for $15 an hour and people keep telling me, why don't you get a job at Starbucks? And he's like, but I can make like $500 buying something and fixing up and selling it in one day. .
Susannah(00:26:33):
Yeah. And so it's just, it, it's, it's this mindset thing where it doesn't also have to, in my, from my estimation, it doesn't have to stay. Like, there have been so many times where I'm like, oh, should I, I was just talking to my assistant today about this. So I got a referral through my website that she is now the person who does the initial consult calls, the 20 minute consult calls. So I don't even have to like, you know, do that first part of it. And it's scheduled for next week and the person has some questions about the fee. And I'm like, you know, if this person really, I'm not gonna fight them on it. , if they really, really cannot pay that fee, then I'm gonna give them some referrals. And people I think are great, but may not be that fee. Or they can try one session with me and see like, Hey, is this something that I, you know, I'm not gonna sit here and try to trick anybody.
Susannah(00:27:25):
And we also, she and I talked about, I was like, you know, sometimes this thought comes in my mind and when people say that where I'm like, well, maybe, but then I said, you know what, if I were in a place where my numbers were such that I could say, yeah, this is the schedule that I want and it's all completely the way that I want it, and I have time. I would, I, I wanna offer pro bono sessions for people sometimes. However, I have over the last couple years made decisions about how, and my schedule's not always just three clients by the way, , but at the most, in the last like year, I've had like seven or eight. Like that's been the most and again, of all different timed frames and levels, but it all starts at 300 . So if it, I guess what I'm trying to say is this is all a very long-winded answer to the fact that some people, and I have lots of friends even from Bank, who maybe some of 'em had to go on insurance for a temporary period of time.
Susannah(00:28:26):
Some of them decided that they needed to lower something for somebody or, but the difference is before we did this work, this money mindset work, were actually slowing down and making slowed down choices and checking in with ourselves versus being like, okay, yeah, sure, clients, I just need clients. Like whatever you need and want. Like, I think as therapists we have this hard time, and this is part of what, when something I learned when I was younger is like the question that I had to constantly tell some of my family when they would ask me the, the question, oh, so how many clients do you have now? Like, that was their measure of success, right? And they might not even realize that that's what they're doing, but it's just part of our culture. Hmm. How many, how many clients do you have now means you're successful versus you know, are you enjoying your work?
Susannah(00:29:16):
Mm-Hmm. Hey, are you feeling like you're financially successful? Because I might say, yeah, I had three clients this week and people would be gasp , but for other people they might say, oh, well maybe I have, you know, the capacity to meet with more people. Or maybe this is exactly what I wanna be doing at this time. There were times in my life where I did work with 20 clients a week. Hmm. But I'm at a point in my life where I'm like, oh, there's actually a lot of stuff that I haven't been able to fit in. And I know I'm gonna stop talking now because I know this kind of leads into like some other questions you had about scheduling. Mm-Hmm. and building my schedule. But I, I, I really feel like the main answer is like, you have to decide that for yourself.
Susannah(00:30:00):
And you cannot, I will not shame anybody who decides to go on insurance. I will not shame anybody who decides to lower their fee after they raise their fee because that's their decision. I just would as a, you know, friend and somebody who cares about therapist so much say, take your time and really sit with this and think like, is this something that is going to ultimately keep me sustained in this work if I lower this fee for this one person? And, and again, I haven't done it since I've been raising my fees, but I found other ways to be able to balance it all out and sustain myself. And, you know, maybe someday I will be like, sure. . Ooh, that was a lot. So, you
Tiffany(00:30:50):
Know, well there's, I think there's so much in there. One thing that comes to mind as you're talking through, through two things stick out. One is you're talking about Lim is not just about everybody's charging $300 and that means you're successful in li I hear you saying what Lim actually does and what the, you know, the program and maybe people don't go through li Right. People can come to this in in other ways too. The work is what do stepping back and making decisions intentionally and strategically, not acting on fear, not acting on not making our business decisions based on fear. Yes. Not making our business decisions based on attachment wounds, not making our decisions. Business decisions based on unconscious processes that are driving our bus. But we're actually saying, okay, my fee is maybe it's I got off three insurance panels.
Tiffany(00:31:41):
My goal was to get off four. I'm still on one. I'm a single mom. I only have $1,000 in my bank account. Mm-Hmm. 90% of my caseload is on this insurance panel. Let me actually strategically think about what do I need to do over the next one to two years to be insurance free. And earning $200 like limb is about the long game. Even though you know of, of course in our you know, we talk about $200 session fees and, but it's not like a, every single person does not go from $20 per session to $500 per session in a week. And that's it. Like, I've never said that we don't want, that's not the story we want to tell, but the story we do wanna tell is get clear about what, where you want to go. Yes. Get clear about your plan to get there. Get the community who will support you and be honest with you about what it takes to get there and then take those steps. Yes. That's what I heard.
Susannah(00:32:32):
And can I tell you that getting clear is, is this up and down process? Yes. That has taken me, like, I got to the summer and I was like, oh, it's, it's like, it's taken me three years to really land in based on all the other things that I was strategically doing and like, you know, risks I was taking and decisions I was making to really be able to be like this feeling, like this feeling of being able to feel like one of them was like, I am enjoying my summer consistently so much more than I was even a year ago because I was like, you know, striving, striving, striving to the point where I was forgetting why I was doing all of this in the first place. And so I think what sometimes can happen with people who are maybe they never join li or maybe they're outside of li or even people who are in the Lean and Make bank program, is that we, and I did it too.
Susannah(00:33:26):
Mm-Hmm. , I would get caught up in like, ah, six figure salary. Oh my gosh. And then once I get it, it's just gonna go up and up and up from there and it's always gonna be that way. And actually reality says that's it. I made for the first time in my life at age, when was it, two years ago, I made over a hundred thousand dollars in my practice and it was a real wonderful win. And then the next year I didn't make that much. And then this year I'm making a little bit more the next year and could potentially hit. It's just there. What I realized is, and I think I was telling you this earlier, it, it finally hit me, why am I doing all of this For me, Susannah, it's for space, time, joy, playfulness. It's like what is, what is the money for? Is the message that I get from you all the time. And I think that sometimes it takes us a long time. Some people process it faster than others. I'm a slower processor to process the idea of like, oh, it's not that you're just trying to keep up with this and you know, everybody, you know who gets to you're in this club all of a sudden like where like, and then you never leave. It's more like, how is this, you, you said it before, like the money is just a vehicle.
Susannah(00:34:45):
How am I using the money as a tool to help me to live the life that I need and that I want? And for me, I'm realizing like, oh actually I don't have to be making a hundred thousand dollars a year all the time. I actually have been feeling like rest play joy. I have been able to have more space and time. Like that's the thing that is the currency for me. That is the most important. I have had so much more in the last several years abundance of space and time. And the thing is, I was going through this process of not really understanding how to let myself have it. And so people can do that with money, but they can also do it with space and time. For me, a workaholic therapist who like that was like one of the only things that was bringing me joy.
Susannah(00:35:35):
'Cause The only thing that I had time and space for when I started to have more space, because I raised my fees and my kind of like dwindled my case down, caseload down a little bit. I kept wanting to fill it up. I told you like, it kept being like, oh, I'm doing this training and I'm doing this training and I'm doing this training, and oh, I'm meeting with these people, networking, networking, networking. And I was like, wait a minute. Hold on Suzanne , didn't you want to have space and time? But my nervous system needed the time to process and catch up to feeling what it is that I wanted. It's the same thing we do with our clients when they go through post-traumatic growth and they're like, work through a lot of their trauma and they get to the place, or maybe it's somebody who has addictions and they've gotten same thing, like they've gotten out of it and then relapse happens.
Susannah(00:36:19):
That's why I was saying like triggering of these old things because something in my nervous system is not like really wanted the space and time and the playfulness, and I wanna swim in a pool more often in the summertime. And then once I was doing it, it was like my, my nervous system couldn't process that it was actually happening. It needed a little more time. And I think that's why it's taken me a few years to be like, oh my gosh, look what you just created for yourself. This is absolutely amazing. Let's keep doing it this way. ,
Tiffany(00:36:47):
It's you're, you. Man, there's so many things you said in there. I'm trying, I I could talk about this one or this one or this one. . Two things you touched on and articulated very well. I love your, I love your distinction around the different types of currency.
Susannah(00:37:03):
Yeah.
Tiffany(00:37:03):
When we talk about limb on its face, we're talking about the currency of money. You can earn more money. Most people get to the programmer and they're like, wait a minute. There's also currencies of time. Emotional and psychological bandwidth, spaciousness. And I personally actually value time and the ability to be present with your loved ones. That's a very important currency to me. Huge in this society. We have to have money to support having the thing that really matters, which is space and time, emotional presence. Someone might come into limb and think that they're like, I wanna see 30 people at $250 and make 250,000 thousand annually. I don't know if that math works out, but let's say, and then they come in and say, actually, I don't mind making 150,000 and saying 15 people a week and actually being able to be present with my kid. Like, that's a value. And that's what we want people to get to is like, what's really valuable? What is your priority? Yeah. Let's set up a practice that actually gets you there.
Susannah(00:38:07):
Yes. Because, and I'm even thinking about what you're saying in terms of the money, like there that the, the year that I was like on Medicaid panels and I was doing all these different things and I was just working constantly. And even in 2020 it was like all online in my house. So like I was like, oh, I'll be home. I wasn't at home. I was in a corner at my house being like, everybody be quiet out there and exhausted afterwards. And never really, I mean, maybe occasionally, but like just not being able to deeply connect with my family, being able to connect with friends as much as I wanted to and feeling really tired all the time. To the point where I was that therapist that was starting to like fall asleep with a client online. And I was like, that hit me as like Uhuh.
Susannah(00:38:48):
And what's really interesting about that, and you had actually asked me this too, because there are other therapists out there who are like this, I'm making, you know, a hundred thousand or more. Because at that time I think I was making somewhere between 80 and 90,000. But like what, why ? And so like, yes, it was going to certain kinds of things, but then, and, and yes, maybe it was going towards some savings, but mostly it was just like, I'm just like hustling, hustling, hustling to make this money. And now the thing that I settled into this year, and even last when I was like, oh, I didn't make, I didn't hit the a hundred K mark last year. But what happened is, even though I made just slightly less, it was actually about the same. I was working less than half the time on my job.
Susannah(00:39:38):
I was able to, and this is the other thing, like I was able to do things for, these are the things that we want our clients to do, do things to take care of myself and my health. Singular things like, I like to go out on a single solo walks and runs out there, but I also like to do it with my family. So now I'm able to do both Mm-Hmm. . And I like to go and like go on retreats, but I also like to hang out and do vacations with my family. Still, I'm able to do both now. I like to read to my son at night . I like to watch a TV show like every night with my husband and my son there. I like to be able to hang out with my sister on the weekend. All of these things are starting to be able to like hit me that I'm like, oh, I'm making the amount of money that I need to be able to live and support my family and have the space and time to do the things that I actually didn't have space and time to do before.
Susannah(00:40:28):
So it's like, great, maybe I'll keep making more money. And I have a feeling like just with the confidence that has grown and the way that I am feeling, I know that I actually, this has just been proven to me. I don't know what the formula is, but when I am feeling more regulated myself and when I am feeling more healthy, I, I guess it's just law of attraction stuff. Like I attract more referrals. Mm-Hmm. I get, I get more consistency with clients. I'm able to ask for, that was the other part, like asking for the help that I need also helps me to sustain myself, but it also helps me to sustain my business. Mm-Hmm. So I just think that it's like the, the number, it's finally hitting me that there are, yes, like you said, different kinds of currency. And if we get too locked into, which at one point I did, I was like, I can I get to 250 k and like maybe someday I will. But I wasn't clear like you said on, what is that 250 k actually for? That's different than the a hundred K that I just made. And a lot of the things that I value that bring me joy, I mean everything costs some money, but like going outside and walking in the public space trails, I'm not giving anybody any like, money for it. Like maybe my taxes, but like that, that kind of a thing. Or like, you know, just snuggling with my family. Does that cost money? No, that cost time.
Tiffany(00:41:54):
So you, you're making me think about, oh man, again, so much. Well first of all, the law of attraction. This came up in a, this came up last week and I laughed. Someone said, I guess I just manifested it after she, this is one of our students. After she listed off literally all the things she just did that were literally tangible and trackable. And then she said, I guess this is manifestation. So you just did that same thing. And I always have to be like, throw my pen down if I have to get up on a pedestal or rally against somebody. Susannah, I, I absolute like, even you being on this podcast, people are listening and they're gonna say, holy, I wanna work with Susannah. I wanna set up an intensive, I wanna either do work with her in terms of therapy or maybe I just wanna learn, like set up a time with her to understand like her business. Like get a business compensation. Oh, why are you a co
Susannah(00:42:32):
I because you were like, why aren't you talking?
Tiffany(00:42:34):
Hold on. We're gonna talk about that in a second. We're gonna get there. Talk about, I just attracted it. You didn't just a attract it right here. Even being on this podcast right now, you have the space, energy time. Right.
Tiffany(00:42:46):
To show up thoughtfully. If you had been on this podcast in 2016, you'd be stressed, overwhelmed, anxious, nothing would come of being on this podcast except maybe someone would say, I'm never referring to that person. She's overwhelmed and burned out. Good to know. I'm not referring to Susannah. It's the law of attraction is you doing a whole bunch of work. Yes. Working your off to get to a point where you can be speaking with 1500 people who are listening to you today in a coherent, thoughtful, moving, meaningful way and talking about the ups and downs of your journey and how you have found your core within it. Yeah. That's no law. I mean, we can say attraction is the law of attraction is you taking steps. You're
Susannah(00:43:25):
Making me laugh because I just had another moment that came to me. Well, first of all, what I have learned now about law of attraction from some of my buddies out there is that it does, it's not just like fru like, okay, I'll just sit here and wait like that. It absolutely isn't that. Like, there is work that goes into it. And yet the thing I keep coming back to now, because I'm on this train right now, and I'll tell you why, but like of is it bringing me joy? And so I think about like, even the stuff that's out in politics right now, you know, they're talking about hard work. We work hard, we work, work, work, work, work. And I'm like, well, as long as that hard work is filled with joy, which some of that seems to be, then I'm all about it.
Susannah(00:44:04):
But if your hard work is not ever bringing you joy, then there we, we gotta do something about this. Because there is just a thing in the world about like, oh, we gotta work so hard. We're so hard. But what you're talking about when you're like, Susannah, you've done all this hard work. I have, I have switched it around to be like, my hard work has been filled with play and rest as priorities. And, and, and to understand that those are the concepts that I'm like working for. Mm. And so it it, and, and joy too, just to be able to feel like, is this rooted in joy for me? Because we, I think we, in our, at least in the culture that I grew up in, it's about like, and I heard Tim Wall say this and I was like, oh, I love you Tim Walls, but why do you say we'll sleep when we're dead? Like, don't say that , we'll sleep when we're dead. Like, I've heard that my whole life. He's in the Midwest,
Tiffany(00:44:56):
That's his job. people in the Midwest.
Susannah(00:44:59):
But I I'm, I'm just saying, and I grew up in the Midwest too. That is the culture. Mm-Hmm. It's like, mm-Hmm. It's like work, work, work, work, work. However, if it's filled with joy and we're just sort of joking around about it and we can really look at it. But the thing is, I even think about this intergenerationally and there's a whole project I'm working on right now that people might be able to see where it's like promoting a joy centered living, promoting using joy as a metric. This came from this whole group that I'm part of called the Black or the Brain that the Monye was the one who created. And then, you know, a bunch of us therapists and other wellness practitioners came into and were like, wow, we need to create an assessment that's based in joy, not based in like, what's wrong with you.
Susannah(00:45:39):
Hmm. And so it's about even asking people like, when's the last time, in the last last 30 days, how many times have you been asked about your joy? And the goal is if everybody in the room who you have asking that question says at least one time, then that's better than what has been . Mm mm Because we don't talk, we're we're not talking about it. And when you see even in the political climate, like when something shifts and people are talking about joy, that's huge. . And so I think that going back to it now, I can even remember why I was at, oh, it was about, I can't remember what I was, what I was trying to answer in your question, but I'm just, I'm, I'm rooting everything in joy now. Mm. And when I can check that as like, that's the metric against everything, then I can make those decisions.
Susannah(00:46:22):
Oh, you were talking about manifesting. Mm. So I feel like when I can root myself in what brings me joy, that's what manifestation is. It's like if I am living from a place of including joy, that it's gonna help me expand my window of capacity, which I don't say tolerance anymore, it's just window capacity to be with all of the crap and the that's all around us. Versus being like, make this stop out there. Mm-Hmm, hmm. So I can be happy. Like it's more like if you can really start to say like, oh what brings me joy is your resource for being able to be with Mm-Hmm. , all of that stuff. Then certainly I'm gonna walk through the world and I am probably going to attract things more. And when I say attract, I'm going to be much more motivated. I'm gonna be much more confident and I'm gonna go out and, you know, talk to more people and tell them and talk with them about joy, about what I do.
Susannah(00:47:19):
And that relates to my therapy too. My therapy practice, I have been almost 15 years in private practice, but I've also been in the field for way over 20 years. Mm-Hmm. And I still will come away from a session now. And I think a huge part of it's because of the way I've set up my practice. I go, oh my God, I love this work , I love it so much. And that kind of a thing. Like I want other therapists to be able to feel that way. 'cause There were moments when I was doing it not the way that really like helped serve me, that actually made it so that I wasn't actually serving the clients either because you know, I'm too tired or I'm not present or I'm thinking about like, what's going on with my kid in school versus this. Because I didn't have the space and time to think about that before or in between sessions I did used to, you asked me like, what, what was it like before there, there were times where I like, I know I had nine people in a day and I literally back to back, I had no breaks in between.
Susannah(00:48:14):
Somebody would be waiting at the door when the other person was walking out nine times . And now I have at least a half an hour if not an hour. And sometimes it's only one client in a day. And it gives me much more space and time to be present with that person and also to be present with my life.
Tiffany(00:48:32):
We only have about eight minutes, so I think it's a perfect time to open up an entire what is it? Entire. What is that? Can of worms. Can of worms. I'm gonna open up a tire can of worms right now. What is It's a different one. It's a box you open. That's terrible. And I can't come up with the words 'cause perimenopause. There's a word I'm trying to think about. Para menopause. That's, we're just open up much. Yeah. This can of worms. We were talking earlier about hustling.
Susannah(00:49:01):
Yeah.
Tiffany(00:49:02):
And how this idea of you're working so hard and we want people to understand, you know, actually what's valuable to spaciousness and time. One of the things I see over and over and over in limb is that therapists who we all come from backgrounds that have led us into this work. It's the filling up our time is not an a consequence of being so busy and having low fees. It's actually the solution. It's it that is solving the problem of having to deal with painful stuff Yeah. That we don't wanna look at. Mm-Hmm. . So one of the things, one of the secret, you know takeaways of limb, like, you know, we don't talk about this, but really the therapists who join li and, and all the therapists who don't join limb, who are working their behinds off and underearning, there's something that's scary to look at in their unconscious process. Yeah. There's something trauma, some grief, some mourning that is just overwhelming. And the solution to that is to making, make sure they don't have no space in their life to actually have to look. And so the, you, you made me think about this earlier when you talked about actually the three year process of Yes. And the recovery of, so wow. I just, I just, I just, I, I'm like, how do some
Susannah(00:50:21):
Ideas, even though you didn't ask a question,
Tiffany(00:50:22):
Right. So, so a lot of people don't actually do this work because it means there's spaciousness. And when there's spaciousness, we have feelings and realities come up often in our family of origin that's maybe still present in our life, maybe in our marriage, we don't wanna look at and we have to choose to look at it. So when I say hard work, it's hustling is one kind of hard work. Yes. But actually saying, I'm gonna create time. I'm gonna create space and actually turn and look at my marriage or turn and look at my mother who's calling me on the phone right now. And I don't really know how to engage. I have to look at the ways I may be repeating trauma with my children. I have to look at it. So can you talk a little bit about and you can be as personal or impersonal as you want with this, the reality that when you create space in your life, it opens up, you, you have to grow by virtue of examining yourself and your relationships. Can you speak to that a little bit? This
Susannah(00:51:15):
Is the thing is like, when I talk about joy, I think sometimes people might be like, oh, she's just happy all the time. Like, joy is more like, it, it, it's, it's a me And this is where like this whole like metric that we, we created in the black or the brain is about sort of like having to ask yourself these hard questions of, is this bringing me joy? And if not, what does that mean? So what this led me to in the last three years, that was a surprise to me. And I brought this up as a mentor 'cause it was happening, like, constantly something would happen, like something big because I had created space is, I remember when I started them being like, and sometimes it can be like, oh yeah, I wanna have a nice house and I wanna have vacations, and I want this, and I want that.
Susannah(00:52:05):
Nobody is ever saying, I want time to be able to grieve my relationship with my sibling. And I want to have time to be able to really sit down and actually set real boundaries with my parents. And I want to be able to sit in a, meet a time to sit in a meeting for my kid who's struggling in school. Like, those aren't the things that we actually think about first. But that was the surprising thing for me, that was like, oh, that's where duh. Like, I'm a therapist. The real healing takes place, . And because not just the space and time, but because of the community that I've built around this kind of stuff of other people who are trying to do that too. There were so many people, like, you're one of 'em, Tiffany, but there are so many people to be able to always know I can go to when I'm like, wow, this is really hard.
Susannah(00:52:54):
Whether it's raising your fee, or, oh my gosh, some crisis is happening in my family and I had to like, you know, cancel clients for this month. But, but like, I had to actually face it versus, so here's the thing that I noticed about myself before prelim, was that I constantly, and I'm still trying to like work my way through this, I always used an excuse of I'm busy. I'm working, oh, I have so many clients. Instead of having to do the hard thing, which is actually setting clear boundaries, it says, I don't wanna do that. Right. Or I can't be there for you or I, right. 'cause It's just, it digs into all of my internal attachment . And one of the things that happened during limb in the very beginning was that I actually, and the motive was like, oh, I wanna meet with a therapist who charges a lot because I wanna know what this feels like.
Susannah(00:53:50):
Well, when I started meeting, and I'm still to this day meeting with her, and she's charging $300 an hour, by the way now. Beautiful. She was charging 200 when I first started meeting with her. And I, I also remember hearing this from you. It's like, I have to have this. But when I started doing that work, I started to realize like, oh, this, this is the work I need to do in order to become the other things that I want to become because I'm having to work through all of this. So I'm making space and time, but I'm also finally allowing myself and giving myself permission to say, I'm gonna pay this much money for a therapist for me, because this is actually helping me become a better parent, a better a better wife, a better therapist, a better sister, a better daughter, a better cousin, a better friend, a better steward of the earth.
Susannah(00:54:42):
Like there, it's just so interesting to me because that, you know, therapy and then recently, and I've talked to you about this a lot, you helped encourage me with this. I had been thinking so long about like, oh, all this administrative work that I have to do for these last like 11, 12 years. And once I started, I, I'd gone on this process of finally taking the risk to hire an assistant. Mm. And I went through several rounds of this because the first time it's sort of like, it was okay, but it didn't quite land. And then I like went through productive therapists with your friend Uriah Gilford. And they set me up where like, they train the therapists to be able to onboard and then they also train the, the, the assistants, the virtual assistants to work specifically with practices, therapy practices.
Susannah(00:55:28):
And there was something that my neurodivergent, a DHD brain needed that I did not even know. And actually I told Christine, who's my, my assistant right now, I told her I was gonna bring this up today because there are so many things that when I have had an as, now I have an assistant I didn't even know I needed help with. And they would be like, oh, this is how you do it. Oh, I can do this for you. And I was like, oh, you can, you can do that. And then I had to acclimate to allowing somebody else to do this thing that I was so used to doing. Like, I don't do my billing anymore. I don't do my, like I was doing all of this stuff. She, even today I told her I was gonna joke about this. I was sitting there trying to figure out how to put an accent on like a, a type.
Susannah(00:56:12):
And I was like, ah, I always write this person's name. 'cause Theo Monye has an accent on her name at the end of it. And I was trying to make help her. Like, I was like, well, let's make a post and here's her thing. And ah, I always have a hard time 'cause I really wanna put the accent on, but I have no idea. She was like, oh, you just hold down the E and then the little things come up and then you can, and I was like, do you know how much brain space you just took from me? like created in the space. So I think that all of it is like, again, it's creating space by, and I have to invest in that, right? Mm-Hmm. . So this is all, all interconnected, but I think what you're speaking of is Oh yeah. The things that we are hiding from the things that are too hard for us to get to that are actually the things that are, because I, I could be like, why am I not making enough money?
Susannah(00:57:00):
It's like, well actually maybe because you need to face some of the old wounds that you are, it's too hard for you to deal with just completely on your own. And you've been shutting yourself off from it. And you can do all this work with other people and you're so good at it, but when it comes to your own stuff, , I need it too. So that's, that's a huge part of what's happened for me. There's been a lot of strengthening of my boundaries that's helped me to be better about my schedule. There's a lot of like continued practice of saying, you know what, no, I can't help you with that. And just, you know, again, I'm realizing when I do that, just like we do with our clients when they come back and they're like, oh, I did the scary thing. And actually it's been really helpful and it's been helpful to the other person and for me, Mm-Hmm. . And I'm like, I had to experience my own version of that over and over again in order to get to the bigger goals and to be able to feel the joy in my life that I want to feel. So, yeah, I, I like them.
Tiffany(00:58:01):
Susannah. People right now are listening and like, I need to talk, I need to talk to Susannah. So I think it was, I dunno if it was this Jan, it was January, it felt like earlier in the year, I don't know if it was this year or last year where, I don't know if we were texting or talking and you were just like, oh, I'm so busy and I don't know how it came up that you were doing coffee. Let's just meet on a coffee. So many people contacted you because you're amazing and you network and you say thoughtful things. People are like, let's just meet for a coffee date or a coffee chat. And you're like, okay. Oh,
Susannah(00:58:24):
I did them all the time for
Tiffany(00:58:26):
Free. I'm like, Susannah,
Susannah(00:58:27):
All the time.
Tiffany(00:58:27):
You've worked so hard, so diligently, so thoughtfully. You have so much experience. Why are you doing these for free? And you're like, what? I could charge, I can't do that, Tiffany. I have to be of service. These are, these
Susannah(00:58:39):
Are my colleagues and my friends. How can I charge them?
Tiffany(00:58:42):
I can't charge them for my years of wisdom and hard work.
Susannah(00:58:45):
Well, it took me a week or two and also having an assistant who was holding me accountable. 'cause I was like, I think I need it. And she's like, okay, we're gonna do this. Let's put it up on your website. Beautiful. So I thank you for that. And I, I do, yeah. I'm happy to talk to people, but I charge, I have a half hour fee and I have a full hour fee. I don't know when this podcast comes out, but like, I felt like it's get in when you can people because
Tiffany(00:59:07):
Yeah, that's right.
Susannah(00:59:08):
The fee may go up.
Tiffany(00:59:09):
people get on this. When I have guests on the show, they're always like, so many people call me afterwards that are aligned. So if people want to, I, well, let me say people want to Susannah. So where do people go to find out more about you to set up a session with you to learn about what you're up to? Where do people go?
Susannah(00:59:24):
Great. Okay. So I have still like, and I think I said this the last time, but now I'm like, you know, rolling with a lot of it. I have two different websites. So if somebody is wanting to do, 'cause I do love working with therapists and wellness professionals. Especially if you're neurodivergent Mm-Hmm. . And you have kids who are neurodivergent, like, let me add 'em. If you want to do therapy or therapy intensivess with me, you can fly into Colorado, we'll set you up with a whole like retreat type of thing. We can include all sorts of different kinds of things. If you ever wanted to be like, what's the psychedelic assisted therapy? I'm all about it. That is Susannah horowitz.com Horowitz with one oh, so S-U-S-A-N-N-A-H-H-O-R-W-I-T z.com. And that's my therapy website that also has a section on it where if you go to, I think it says like consult consulting for wellness professionals.
Susannah(01:00:23):
You can go to that page and you can actually click on and schedule and you actually have to pay from there too. Schedule a consultation time with me, whether it's a half hour, if you wanna do an hour, you schedule just sort of two half hours. I also still have, and I'm gonna be doing a little bit more with this in the next year because I have help the well connected therapist program, which started out as really like a coaching program around networking for introverted therapists. Right. But I've sort of expanded that idea to think about, like, it's really more like a lot of support in general. Networking is a huge part of it, but support in general for therapists in private practice who might be introverted, but they also just might be neurodivergent. They might be like HSPs, they might be a DH, adhd, might have autism diagnosis, all of these different things. And they're just like, ah, meeting with people. There's all these nuances to like, how does that work? How do I regulate myself when I'm doing it? So there's this fine line between, like, I have a whole coaching program for that, but I also do like individual consulting, so people can go to either one. There's also with a well connected therapist I have a newsletter that people can sign up for on that website. So it's all one word. Well connected therapist.com and and the,
Tiffany(01:01:40):
The well connected therapist or just,
Susannah(01:01:41):
It's not the, just, well, just starting with a w well connected therapist.com and Yeah. And that same page is on there too. If people wanna do like, oh, I'm, I always wanna do like a half an hour, an hour talking to you. But there's, you know, the fee and it's all listed there too. When I say I'm gonna be doing a little more with this, I think it's like I created that program back in like 2021 and it's, it also has gone through some like Mm-Hmm. shifts and changes as I've done shifts and changes. And I am realizing that sometimes therapists who contact me, they want some like, private practice support stuff and some therapists want therapy. Mm-Hmm. So it's like, which way you wanna go? Mm-Hmm. , you know, I'll do either one, but let's figure it out and, and figure out which one. So, you know, whichever one is easiest for you to go to. And then you can reach out to me that way and I'd love to talk to you. And I may, Tiffany, I'm starting to make videos so I Yay. May show up on Instagram and LinkedIn.
Tiffany(01:02:35):
Okay. Wait, what's your Instagram? Should people follow you on Instagram?
Susannah(01:02:39):
Sure. it is, well, I think it's well connected therapist. Okay. It, yes, because my my assistant Christine is also a filmmaker and I was like, oh, well this is a sign. Christine,
Tiffany(01:02:51):
Watch out. Christine. Don't say Christine it's name too much. People are gonna come in and get that, Christine, so people can go, oh,
Susannah(01:02:56):
She fine.
Tiffany(01:02:57):
Instagram, well connected therapist susannahhorwitz.com or wellconnectedtherapist.com. But any of those ways they contact you, you'll talk with them and help them think about the best course of action.
Susannah(01:03:07):
Yeah. Or you can find me on LinkedIn as Susannah Horwitz. I think that's what it is, is Susannah Horwitz one oh H-O-R-W-I -T -Z Yeah.
Tiffany(01:03:13):
Susannah, thank you for coming and talking about like the aftermath. Like we, we have a lot of shows. Well, you, you were right in the midst of it, right in the midst of the change. And now here you are years later, here's what it looks like, the ups and downs, the ins and outs and the real learnings of doing this work. Thank you for coming and sharing. Thank,
Susannah(01:03:30):
Thank you so much, Tiffany.
Outro(01:03:37):
All right. Whatever you're doing, I want you to pause. If you're driving, pull over. If you're chopping a carrot, put that knife away. If you're making sweet love to your woman, well, I mean, that's, that's, that's kind of flattering in a weird way. Huh. You can go, you can just go ahead and you can keep doing that. But for the rest of you, if you learn even just one thing of value today, please share this episode with even just one therapist who could benefit from the message. Here's how, if you're listening on iTunes, click on the episode and you'll see a small purple circle with three dots. Click on those dots and you're gonna see the option to share at the bottom of the list. Click that, and you can just go ahead and share it on Facebook, or you can even just text it to one therapist who you know needs to hear it. If you're listening on Stitcher, just tap the triangle icon on the upper right corner. It's next to the menu that displays your upcoming playlist. You'll see the option to share the episode you're currently listening to Right on Facebook. Look, it's time to get the word out. We gotta spread the message. Thank you so much, and we'll join each other again soon.