(crowd cheering)
And yo boys and girls,
it's time for another
Jeep Talk Show interview.
We're gonna be
talking with Anthony Dreyer.
And Anthony, all the viewers here know
how bad I am at
pronunsticating things, as I like to say.
So you correct me on any of this.
Actually, I was gonna ask you,
is it Silva, North Carolina,
that I see here in the intro?
Silva.
Correct, he has a born and raised
and spent 18 years of my life
before I joined the Air Force there, so.
Okay, I just didn't wanna mess it up.
It looks like Sylvia, but there's no I.
Anthony Dreyer is a former US Air Force
special missions
aviator with over a decade
of experience in
special operations aviation.
He flew high risk
missions around the globe,
earning multiple
accolades, including Air Force,
the Air Force's Jolly
Green Rescue mission
of the year in 2018.
Originally from Silva, North Carolina,
in the heart of the
Appalachian Mountains,
Anthony brings the same
courage and gift and grit
that defined his
military career to his work
as an author and mental health advocate.
His book and memoir, "Moonchild" often,
or rather offers a
raw and compelling look
at war, trauma, addiction, and recovery.
Shedding light on the invisible battles
that many veterans and
service members have,
or that they face.
All right, so Anthony, as you can tell,
I wear reading glasses, and
that's why I chopped that up
so badly, because I don't have them on.
(laughs) I still read on a fifth grade level, man,
so somehow managed to put a book out.
I can't read.
(laughs)
I read books and
pictures in them, you know, so.
I can barely talk.
(beep) I gotta read, too.
All right, Anthony, so this is cool.
Is this your first
book that you've written?
It is, yeah, it's just
over a year old now, so.
Just a relatively quick read, too, is
about a two-hour read,
but it'll take you through all the
emotions in two hours,
is what I like to tell people,
so at least what I've heard from it, so.
I got a dear friend
that's written a few books,
and a different subject
from yours, of course,
but it's funny, this learning the process
that I've heard from
her, it really almost is
just something that you gotta get out,
the story that you have to get out,
because unless there's a movie deal,
you ain't makin' no money off of books.
No, yeah, yeah, that's what,
there is this sort of, you know,
people believe that
there's thousands and thousands
of dollars, and unless
you're big time, big time,
that's not gonna, at least for me,
that didn't happen like
that, but it does okay,
and really, I tell people
that every sort of veteran
and first responder in
these uncommon type jobs, man,
very just normal men
and women doing these
very uncommon, unnatural things,
so it's good to get that stuff out,
and if writing that
down's a good way to do that,
and somebody may benefit
from your words, you know?
Oh, absolutely, and you never know,
and I think a lot of people,
and this is true for podcasting as well,
a lot of people go, who am I to do
something like this?
Who am I that, you know,
people that have known me
for years barely listen to me,
or are they gonna get a
book and read what I had to say
or listen to me on a podcast?
But you should do it, you know,
because you don't know, if
you don't do it, you don't know.
Let me ask you about
the title of the book
without giving it away too much,
because we do want
people to purchase the book
and get it, I'm assuming
it's available on Amazon
and you can get it on Kindle and stuff?
Yes, sir, you can get it on Amazon,
Barnes and Noble,
basically anywhere they sell books
and then trademarker media.
So the name of the book is Moon Child,
what's the reason for the name?
Yeah, so I was born on a full moon there,
in Appalachia, you know, in North
Carolina in the mountains
and then basically
that was April 7th of 82
and then, you know,
flying around in the gunship,
you're doing this
left hand turn all night,
mostly during the night, you know,
there's parts in the orbit, you know,
where you can sort of
get lost in time and space.
Oh, I bet.
You know, you'll
remember where the moon's at,
you know, sort of my get well point,
like almost like a
lighthouse for me, you know,
and it's always been symbolic, you know,
about like, you know, during those
darkest nights, man,
that's when the moon
needs to burn the bright ice
and you find those
moments of light, you know,
to get you and your fellow
airmen, brothers, sisters,
through all that, you know,
so it's definitely like a,
almost like a lighthouse to me, you know,
and it made flying air
for us with the terrain
and easier to pick up tracer fire on NVGs
and stuff like that, you know.
So would this be the
same, is it a C-130 gunship?
Is that what it is or
do they have others,
the other gunships?
Yeah, so it's only AC-130,
the A would be attack
and the C would be cargo
and then a C-130 without the,
not being a gunship without guns
would be just a C-130 for cargo.
But yeah, there's a, you know, back then,
when I first started flying,
we had the H model Spectre gunship,
which, you know, it had
tell numbers like 6-9 and 7-2,
like Vietnam, so you're
flying on the same skeletal
structure of the same ones that flew over
the Ho Chi Minh Trail.
So there's always a lot
of pride in that, you know,
being a part of that unit
and it really was sort of
built on giants, you know,
and we have a saying in, you know,
special operations is,
humans are more
important in hardware, you know,
so it's really about the men and women
that provide that close air support
for those super ninjas on the ground,
as I like to call them.
Then you had the U model, the Spooky,
which was at Herbertville,
which is, you know,
still at Herbertville,
that squadron.
So I did hear right,
this is a gunship that you were on,
so you were on the attack, okay.
Yeah. So, and I don't mean to
be offensive about this,
but my only,
Molly, straight hand
information from a gunship
that you have orbits and you shoot stuff,
is from a game, I
think it was Call of Duty.
And what a wonderful,
what a wonderful segment that was
to take on those guns
and be at the gunship,
shoot and shoot in the ground.
And what do you call it?
Not the nightlight,
where you can see the little glowing
people running around.
The iron broom and stuff like that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, flare, yeah.
Flare, yeah.
So it's so horrible
to actually, you know,
be killing people, but
these weren't real people,
but you were in a situation where,
I mean, they weren't
shooting at the gunship
that I was in in the game,
but you guys could get shot at,
and you could lose your life doing that.
I mean, it's something that,
but people is, it's a funny thing,
people don't wanna die.
So they may shoot back.
Oh yeah, yeah, that's
actually one of the,
they'll tell you one of
the golden rules in gunship,
being, you know, is when shooting,
expect to be fired upon, you know,
and there's, you know, there has been
some lessons learned,
Desert Storm had the Spirit Zero 3,
you know, the gunship, they got shot down
with a surface air missile,
which is reasoning, we
usually mostly fly at night.
But yeah, I mean, your whole
reason for shooting would be,
you know, basically there's these guys
and gals on the ground, right?
Like our nation's very best, man.
And, you know, there's
letters on that squadron
where like my wife behind, I
guess the mission was like,
there was this ranger
holding his baby girl,
you know, and he's basically thinking
the squadron from the rounds,
he's able to go home
and see his baby girl.
And to me, that was the why, you know,
people get caught up on the, you know,
the enemy killed in action,
but really it's about
making sure those guys
get home to their family, you know?
I tell you what, I was
never in the military.
As I've said before, I'm
pretty sure that had I joined,
I would have been
killed by friendly fire.
This stuff is too much of a smart ass
(beep)
(laughing)
But I would, I have a lot
of respect for those men
that get on the ground
and their elbow to elbow
with people trying to kill them.
Now I think the military
does a really good job.
I mean, obviously air
support that you guys were doing,
but just the idea of them
running around the ground.
I mean, you have to be a
certain type of bad ass
and PTSD is completely understandable
when you're ready to
be killed at any second.
You never know when
that bullet might be coming
from a direct one direction or another.
So, and I think you kind of
go over this in your book,
don't you?
Yeah, definitely.
You know, when we were in Afghanistan,
the surface to air threat
wasn't like at that point
that high, you know, but
when the ISIS conflict started,
that's when they really had
some stuff that could sort of
reach out and touch us, you know?
And I remember flying man and in the
night you'd be scanning
with your MBGs and
there's these like, you know,
beach ball size air
bursts that you're six o'clock.
So they could hear the, and
they knew about the gunship
and the props, what we
call the four fans of freedom,
you know, and so they're
basically trying to get a lucky
shot on us, but once
they did that, you know,
it was self defense at that
point and we would take care
of them and stuff, but yeah, it was a,
but the real, you know, I
guess people that are really
in harm's way, man, is
those guys breaching that door
and they're going in
there to get a heavy hitter,
if you will, you know what I mean?
And again, you know, it's,
you take a lot of basically
pride, man, in getting
that, those guys, you know,
the one and the one
Hunter Herakles talks about
home to their family, so.
Mm-hmm.
I think it's great that
here in this recent conflict
that we were involved in with Iran,
at least not publicized
any boots on the ground,
I suspect that we probably
had some boots on the ground,
if not ours, the Israelis
or from one of the others,
but I'm glad that we
didn't have US soldiers
put in harm's way more
so than what they were
flying over it, and
everybody did a stellar job.
Are you happy or sad that you weren't
involved in this one?
I mean, you know, I'm
sad because like, you know,
in a way I have to get over
myself with stuff like this,
and realize this machine
keeps turning right, like,
you know, and you see
the air power, right,
and air superiority and stuff like that,
and then you had the, you
know, basically air superiority,
people talk about just the
presence of American air power
over a certain area,
right, and a lot of times
they forget about the
promise to that presence,
I tell people, and that's
when you saw on Easter Sunday,
you know, ironically,
that F-15, you know,
Wizzo went down and you
saw those mighty jolly greens
behind enemy lines, like,
putting it all out there, man,
and those guys really do
put it all out there to,
you know, to make
sure someone's worst day
is not their last, so,
yeah, I miss the camaraderie,
and I miss the brotherhood
and sisterhood part of that,
man, but yeah, you know,
anybody that's ever been in a war,
I'll tell you they don't
want to be in another one,
you know, so, you know, high inside,
I wish we could do
diplomacy 10 out of 10 times, right,
but it's not always
the case, and, you know,
people a lot smarter than
me make those decisions,
but yeah, I do miss being
actually in the aircraft
with my family, you know.
Right.
So, you mentioned ISIS and
the battle that you were in.
There was a president prior to this one
that left a few billion
dollars worth of equipment
for, you know, anybody to pick up.
I mean, I'm surprised it
hasn't been on eBay yet.
Can people that are not
trained using that equipment
figure it out if given enough time,
I guess enough people to throw at it
that get killed in the process?
Yeah, so I would say it
would take time, you know,
and a lot of time, I
guess, if you've never,
like, you look at a helicopter,
like, first time I saw one, I was like,
man, how does this thing
hover, how does this thing fly,
you know, and I mean, just, you know,
then there's checklists, we're
very much creatures of habit,
so we've been trained to--
There's a lot of
mainnets to keeping these things
in kiln or two. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know, mainnets and everything,
even though logistics
for the mainnet, right,
all that stuff, and yeah,
I think it would be a lot
of time and a lot of money
that they could eventually get it,
but nothing in the near
future where they could just,
you know, pick up
something and know how to use it,
you know? Mm-hmm.
Well, I think it
sounds bad whenever you hear
that you left seven
billion or whatever it was,
all that equipment over there,
I mean, you could at
least just blow it up.
I think it's better than
leaving it operational,
and I think that's what the standard is,
is to destroy the equipment
or it can't be used against you,
but I don't know that
it's, you think about it,
they're not easy machines
for the most part, you know?
I think a tank probably
would be the easiest thing,
but I don't know.
Anyway, I think it'd
be fun figuring it out,
but I could well imagine it could really,
several people could lose their lives,
especially whenever
you're trying to learn
how to drive the tank
and you run over your buddy
that's out there next to the tracks,
by spinning it.
Yeah, I think there's
some interesting videos
of those guys trying to fly a 60
after we left the stuff like that.
Oh, good Lord, that would be,
I mean, I would dearly
love to fly a helicopter,
but I've heard that flying helicopters,
hovering a helicopter is so difficult.
Oh yeah, yeah, you know, it's basically,
and there was a point in my career
where I went from fixed
wing to rotary wing, man,
and I really struggled, man,
like having to like forget
everything I thought I knew
about flying and aerogunnery
coming from this fixed
wing platform, right,
to a rotary wing platform,
and I think there's a
moment in the book, man,
we're doing these minigun patterns
and the racetrack type
patterns in the helicopter,
and it's August, July or August,
and Albuquerque, man,
and I didn't eat right,
I was sitting on the
left for the first side,
and I was getting
malfunctioned after malfunctioned
after malfunctioned.
Man, there's this
moment to where like, man,
I was like, I'm gonna be
sick for the first time
ever in there, right,
and so I was like, okay,
well, if I leave my
head this much out the door
when I puke, it won't
come back in the aircraft,
lo and behold, we had
both doors in my instructor,
my actually evaluator was in the back,
and so I was like, right, and it came
back and just, boom,
just fragged him in the
back, man, he gives me,
he gives me one of these numbers,
but yeah, we're really good friends,
we joke about it today, but yeah,
but there's definitely
no, with rotary wing,
faking it to make it, man, like I said,
those guys are really,
they put it out there, man,
for they are the
brothers keepers, you know?
So I know in civilian flying,
at least I think I know
it's been a while now,
but the pilot command in a
fixed wing is on the left,
and it's on the right in a
helicopter, a rotary blade,
and I don't know why that is,
but is it the same in the military
where you're pilot command
on the right or the left?
Yeah, exactly, so when
I went from gunships,
the aircraft commander's
on the front left, right,
you know, the left, and like you said,
then helicopters, he was on the right,
and what I could gather,
so if we're doing a hoist
like on the right side of the aircraft,
because the hoist is on
the 60, the right side,
so he can just poke his head out
and sort of see
what's going on, you know,
and we do practice to do cross cockpit,
what we call crew resource management,
and you know, you're doing
all these different comms,
and it's a very
back-end enlisted driven thing,
like a hoist or
something like that, you know?
Or like one little hovers, for example,
a lot of coordination, man, so.
So when you were learning
to be a helicopter pilot,
you had to do an auto rotator, right?
Yeah, and I was a, you know,
traditionally a gunner,
and what they did was
they combined the gunner
with the fighter
engineer and low master crew
for it on the gunship, and
then for the helicopters,
it was a gunner and fighter engineer,
but yeah, you would actually train,
they would decouple from the
freewheeling unit, you know,
and then you would auto rotate,
starting about 1,000 feet,
and the first time I did that, man,
my stick buddy was laughing,
because my eyes were like
huge, you know what I mean?
But it was, I was like,
man, what a pleasure an auto is
to get paid to do this, man.
Oh yeah, and the top
of the line equipment,
it's just, you know, you're
cutting edge on things there,
so from that aspect of it,
I think it would have
been very interesting to me
to be involved in the military,
but there's a lot of
boring downtime as well, right?
Oh yeah, there's a lot
of hurry up and wait,
as they call it, you know, it's,
the gunship mission was more like every,
almost every night
you're going out there,
and you're doing these missions,
and you may shoot once a week,
you may shoot once a month,
depending on the situation,
but you know, 60s on
the rescue side of things,
and I get it now, that's definitely a job
you never want to have to do, right?
Right.
You know, so, but it does happen,
and it's usually after a
long waiting period, you know,
and like I said, there's
things in the Air Force,
like one of the corps of veterans--
Well, they're waiting for you too, right?
I mean, if you're doing a rescue mission,
they may not know where the down pilot
or crew member is, but
they general vicinity,
and all they have to do
is follow the helicopter
to pinpoint the area, so
it's a very dangerous mission.
On the 130 stuff that you did,
did that ever get routine to you,
or you were like, "Oh,
another day, another 50 cents,
let's go out there and get it done,"
because it would be
really exciting to me at first,
and also too
terrifying, but after a while,
did you kind of, that's
kind of get used to it?
So I definitely like
always chase that feeling
that moment to where
it's a troops in contact,
and they call us in overhead,
and you see the enemy through the flare,
like you were talking about earlier,
to see them start running like bees.
Like I chased that
moment as, I don't know,
as vain or bad as that
sounds, you know what I mean?
But the bigger picture was
we're getting our guys home
because of our rounds, you know?
So yeah, I think it was a
sense of relevance thing,
and I never always
loved hearing those words,
clear to engage, and
definitely knew it was game time
at that point.
Well, you're out
there, you're doing a job,
and when you're clear to
engage, you're doing that job.
I mean, as distasteful as it may be,
you don't have to be in that situation
if countries got along.
So yeah, you gotta get the job done,
and you can't just say,
"Well, I've found religion,
"and I can't do this tonight."
Definitely, yeah.
It's definitely, like I said,
I loved being a close
air support platform
for those guys, you know?
Now, did you ever get to fire the weapons
from the gunship, or was
that something that you did?
Or I don't know, what was your job?
Or I guess maybe it was
different jobs inside the gunship.
Yeah, so on the AC-130 gunship,
the traditional gunner, or
smod as they call it now,
but you're basically, your meat potatoes,
where you really make your money is
malfunction analysis.
So you're loading,
basically you're clearing out
malfunctions, and a lot
of times you have seconds
to get this gun back online, right?
And you know, I know that sounds simple,
but you could imagine this is great.
Oh, it's a high pressure situation.
And you're not the
only one looking at it.
Everybody else is looking at you.
Oh yeah, yeah, and you can hear the comms
and the guys on the ground
when they're getting shot at,
and like, "Come on, get
that gun back online."
And so there's this, it's a very, like,
you find a lot about
yourself in those moments, man.
And definitely, they're
only like pulling the trigger,
as people like to say,
for the 105 millimeter,
which, you know, that
thing's basically like,
if you were to put a tank on the side
of this cargo aircraft, right,
there would be moments where the firing
cylinder would go out
and we would take
parachute cord, 550 cord,
and, you know, engine doing itself,
and basically tie it to the firing pawn,
almost turn into a flying artillery guy,
and you'd get the red-raided fire call,
and you would quote, unquote,
pull the trigger at that point.
But on 60s, you're
definitely employing weapons
as the smiler gunner, you know,
with a minigun and or the 50 cal, so.
Oh yeah, I was actually,
I just saw a thing about
the 130 attack aircraft
that we were talking about.
On TikTok earlier, and they were talking
about the various guns and the 105.
So this one also had the, what was it,
a 20 millimeter
minigun and a 30 millimeter?
I wouldn't say it was rapid fire,
because it's kind of a
boof, boof, boof, boof.
Oh yeah. But 30 millimeters,
I mean, how many of those
do you have to fire quickly?
Yeah, so, and that's a
very good question, man.
So the H model guns
here, right, the traditional,
like the one I was talking about, 69, 72,
when I flew on them, we had
the 40 mil boforged cannon,
which actually Chrysler Corporation,
if you look at the back of it,
it's like CC for Chrysler Corporation,
they'd ask you that
sometimes as a gunner.
And then the 105 millimeter was,
you know, like I'm
saying, like this tank that,
It's a World War II, a
Hollitzer, what is it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and
it reco's up to 49 inches
before we have to shut it down.
But at one point, you know,
they had the 220 mils up front,
and then the U model back then,
the gunship was the 40 mil 105
and the 25 millimeter Gatlin gun,
sort of what I think he's talking about.
And then nowadays,
yeah, that's when you
got the 30 mil Bushmaster,
basically it's a
literally driven air-cooled tank.
Yeah, and it's 200
rounds per minute, man,
and I got a pretty gnarly video of that,
but yeah, I mean, I
think heats up quick too.
So it's definitely turned into sort of
like a bomb truck now
with SDBs and the wings
and griffins on the back.
And, you know, so not a
traditional like gunship,
like I started out on,
but I was biased at
first, to be honest with you.
And I was like, man, I don't
want to be on a bomb truck,
I want to be on a gunship,
I want to be on a gunner, right?
But the first time you see what those
weapons could do, man,
to our enemies, you're
like, all right, man,
this is where it's at, right?
You know, I often talk about,
if you don't want to get
anything done, have a meeting,
you know, where you have a big meeting
and everybody's sitting around the table,
but I can see, I can kind of
go for this kind of meeting,
like, well, we've got a big plane,
what kind of can we put on it
that just beat the hell
out of people on the ground?
Well, we got these 105s that we're not
doing anything with,
can we fit one in there?
So I could just imagine, you know,
because there was some sick
(beep)
coming up with what,
and not just one gun,
there's like the three big
hawking guns on this thing.
Do you guys have any kind of air support
whenever you're flying your mission,
do the A-10s or F-16s come
and go, F-18s come and go?
So in Afghanistan and,
you know, the ISIS conflict,
we didn't have like a,
what we call like, you know,
someone like a Sandy
fighter or something like that,
like supporting us, like the
air to air type stuff, right?
But sort of on your own
at that point, you know,
this new day and age,
I don't know how they're
doing things now over there,
or if they're even
over there, but you know,
it's definitely, we'd had nobody but us
besides getting a tank
or getting gas, you know?
Oh yeah, of course,
you're there all night.
So how many times
would you have to fill up
during the night?
And I would think that
you're not doing any evasive,
really any evasive,
you're just flying in a circle.
So I would imagine the fuel consumption
is pretty much the same.
I guess it all depends on
the weather and the wind, but.
Yeah, and that's
another thing as a smother,
especially as David, you're calculating,
okay, about this point in the flight,
what is my fuel gonna be at, you know,
5,000 pounds per hour with fuel?
So does the pilot do anything else?
Does some of these
pilots become NASCAR drivers?
Because they're always driving in a turn.
Man, you get it, actually, the other day,
I compared it to a NASCAR with guns, man,
if you're two guns on a NASCAR, but yeah.
But yeah, the pilot does a lot,
the aircraft commander, man, he's got,
in the end, he has the
overall responsibility
for around leaving the aircraft,
but we always like to say
there's no rank on the aircraft,
from the aircraft commander down to the--
What's a team?
And the team has to be successful, yeah.
Oh yeah, and they definitely,
the 16th Special Operations Coordinator,
they're real good about
crew resource management,
everybody has an opinion,
everybody has a vote for this,
right, so a lot of times
there's no black and white,
right and wrong, it's
either safe or unsafe, you know,
as cliche as that sounds,
and you're making those
split-segues decisions,
collectively as a crew, you know.
Very, very good.
All right, so I'm
having fun talking to you
about military stuff, and
especially about aviation,
aviation is so much fun to
me, civilian side of things.
But I haven't flown in years,
I don't wanna give the
illusion that I'm a regular flyer,
I mean, it's been a very long time,
but it's still a lot of fun.
So do you have this
type of stuff in the book
that we've been discussing,
or does the book go in another direction?
Yeah, it has definitely some aviation,
some operations I was on from the gunship
and the rescue helicopter,
and then it also has
growing up in Appalachia,
and sort of the roots part being that,
sort of the morals and
friendships and family
that molded me when I was younger,
then it's good to
know where you come from,
but to me it's always more
important to know where you're
going, and that's where the
wings part in the Air Force
definitely gave me that
opportunity to see the world
to leave somewhat of a footprint on it.
So did you get PTSD
from your military service?
I did, yes, especially on
the rescue side of things.
Oh yes, of course.
Yeah, sometimes man, you
can see the worst thing
that could happen to somebody,
and I don't wish that on anybody,
knowing it was a mission
June 8th, 2018 in East Africa,
and we saw the best side
of combat search and rescue
that day, right?
You've been saving five guys,
and one guy when he died,
he got back on the
operating table, he died,
so we saw the worst
side, and I tell people,
man, another reason why I wrote it is
because this is what goes
on when you're sleeping,
and I want to tell America that,
and these stories die in the sand,
and that's someone's
brother, someone's son,
someone's friend that made that sacrifice
for our freedoms, you know?
So I find it interesting,
you said that you miss it
and you'd like to still be doing it.
Even after you've gone through all this
stuff with the PTSD,
you wouldn't choose to not go and do it.
I mean, I'm sure it's changed your life.
To me, it was everything.
Actually, I'm gonna
sum this up with a quote
I heard the other day, and it goes
something like this.
The very definition of hell is,
you're the last day on
earth, the person you became
meets the person you could have become.
And my grandfather asked me one time,
he was like, man, do you remember your
great, great, great,
great, great grandparents?
And I don't, I should have, but I didn't.
The point that he was making is like,
you can leave this earth,
people can remember you,
or they won't, for something good,
or for something nothing at all.
So definitely I wanted
to be part of that fight
and serve the highest capacity I could.
I haven't said it, but I always do.
Thank you for your
service, I really appreciate it.
I grew up, I was very young at the time,
but I did grow up around the Vietnam War.
And it was horrible, horrible.
I didn't have any kind
of, I mean, I was young,
so much of it, I didn't care more so
than just Americans being killed and
seeing it on the news.
They actually took film
cameras out there here in Vietnam,
and they were reported on the news
using the film that they had recovered,
gosh, like 14 hours earlier.
It's amazing where we are
now with our technology.
But whenever the
soldiers came back from Vietnam,
it was insane, I don't
know why in the world
anybody that's
protecting your way of life,
I mean, you can disagree
with a war that's fine,
but the people that went out there
to put their lives on
the line to protect us,
or to project our power,
to maybe even help a people,
kind of like what just happened in Iran.
I mean, they
supposedly, the Iranian government
killed 35 to 40,000 of their people
because they were protesting.
I don't like the idea of us being police,
but
(beep)
it, letting stuff like
this go on in the world.
And when you have the
ability to do something about it,
I don't think it's right.
I think you need to tell them,
ziplomatically first, stop that,
and then if they don't stop that,
go and encourage them
vigorously to stop that.
Yeah, and there's also
another quote that goes,
the only thing that's
there for the triumph of evil
is for good men to do nothing.
Exactly.
I definitely wanted to, again,
in the start of the country,
the highest capacity I could,
just made my family proud
and try to do it with
as much honor as I could.
And I did go through some
dark times while I was in,
and I got a lot of help for that,
and prolonged exposure on meds now.
And I'm not ashamed to say that,
but I think I'm a
constant work in progress,
but at least I could say I lived,
and I got to aviate,
navigate, and communicate, man,
in the best squad in the world.
Do you keep up with
any of the old people,
the teams that you were a part of?
Oh yeah, actually, I
do the flight simulators
here on Cannon Air
Force Base in New Mexico,
so it's rare, but I still
see some of the men and women
I used to fly with
anywhere from pilots to gunners,
and stuff like that.
And man, it's just
such an awesome life, man,
and just flying, man,
there's something about it.
Once you do it, you're hooked, man.
Once you do that first mission,
I won't do that for the
rest of my life in that moment.
Do you ever get to
get any simulator time?
Don't tell me yes if
you're not supposed to.
Yeah, I mean, we definitely get in there
and see if I can put it
on the ground as a gunner,
and stuff like that,
and see what the pilots
are actually going through.
And my whole job now
is to basically create
these scenarios for the
AC-130s, the MC, and the U-28.
And basically, the
idea is that it could be
emergency procedure, could be a threat,
dodging the threat or
something like that,
and we're in the gunship
shooting actual targets,
and it actually moves
when we shoot the simulator,
so it's pretty crazy.
Oh, that's neat.
Yeah, man, and it's, I tell people,
I've never been a video game guy, man,
but I get to literally go
play an $80 million video game
every day, you know?
But the beauty of the
fruit in that labor would be,
you know, as you get
those guys, these scenarios
that maybe you've had
or someone else has had,
and like, when they get
down range and it happens,
they take a second, like,
okay, I've been here before,
I've been here 100 times in
training, this is what it is.
You know, so you see that sort of,
you know, that fruit's
from that labor, you know?
Yeah, I can well
imagine that there are some
virtual 3D stuff going
on, not in that simulator,
but some virtual stuff
where you put the headset on,
and especially for the round soldiers,
to go into an area and
study and learn that,
especially with our satellites and stuff,
I imagine the detail is very, very rich.
I recently got a VR
headset, and I was telling my wife,
I bet you the military has something
that's so beyond this,
because if you can go
and train in the area
that you're going in, it's so much
better, I mean, it's--
It's 100% right, 100%
right on that, yeah.
And the same thing with the simulators,
you can go and do these scenarios
that you probably will never have the,
I don't want to say the
ability or to enjoy it,
but it is, it's a challenge,
and then whenever you
go through the challenge,
you've learned it.
World War II, that
wasn't the case, I mean,
you had hours that you flew,
combat missions that you flew,
and that was your simulation.
But these simulators, I
have this vision in my head
of the simulators that you run,
some like the ones that I've seen
in the Intercontinental
Airport here in Houston.
They're huge, absolutely huge,
and I can well imagine that
that would just be a blast.
You guys ever mess with the pilots?
Let's see what he can do with this one,
let's throw this one in there.
Yeah, can't get far
more than I, but you know.
Yeah, exactly, good, good.
There's no fun in the
military unless you can
(beep)
with somebody. 100%.
(laughing)
All right, well let's
get back to the book here.
So tell me more about the book.
What are the
highlights that you think people
should look for in the book,
and why they should buy it, frankly?
Yeah, definitely a kid, you know,
grew up in a small town, and basically,
decided to leave that
and serve my country,
and it's got anything from some
(beep)
good fart jokes, there's
some funny moments in there,
there's some very, the
darkest moments of my life in there,
man, where I decided to
choose better over bitter.
And basically, it's a
guy who wanted to live
a house money life, is the chapter,
I call that in the book, you know,
with life, how much more
aggressively would we get
before we were playing
on the house's money, man?
And basically, a kid
decided that, you know,
probably still a
reasonable fifth year level
just to go get it, man, and
then to try to write it down
and paint a picture for one,
if one person gets
help reading this book,
we talk about the 22 a
day and stuff like that,
with mental health and veterans,
then that's a blessing, that's a win.
And again, the second point
to show the rest of America,
hey, this is what really
goes on when you're sleeping,
and freedom's definitely not free, so.
So correct me if I'm wrong on this,
this is for the people that
don't know about the 22 a day,
the 22 a day is a mission
to keep 22 military people,
current or former,
from committing suicide.
Yeah, and that was the 22 at the time
when they got that average, that number,
that was the amount of the veterans,
believe it or not, that
was taking their lives
within America, so even one is too many,
I look at it like that,
but if I look at it this way,
I can either talk about it, man,
or I can actually try to help someone,
and I tell people when you're
checking on your battle buddy,
wing man, even your four
quarters you call friends
and not your hundred pennies, right,
you know them and they know you,
so there's a difference between saying,
how's it going, brother, or like,
hey man, how you doing
really, bro, what's going on?
You know what I mean?
Yeah, it's not just the standard greeting
that you like,
everybody, how you doing, fine.
Do you just want the fine response,
or do you really want to
know, that type of thing?
Yeah, and every now
and then they'll tell you
what's really going on, man, and that's,
sometimes you could save someone's life,
you never know, bro.
Well, just talking about it,
it's amazing how much
you can get off your,
out of your brain and off your shoulders,
the weight by talking
to somebody about it.
Do you cover therapy in the book at all?
Because I think you
can't mandate therapy,
it should make it really
easy for people to get therapy,
to get through this stuff.
Yeah, Hunter Merci, so I
did the prolonged exposure
through, USOCOM has this thing called
the preservation of the force of family.
So each of these type
of squadrons, right,
whether it's Air Force, Army, et cetera,
you have a psychiatrist,
you have a physical trainer,
and a physical therapist,
and these type of things.
And she was a civilian lady,
and what had happened, man,
was, especially after the castaway,
especially after this
loss of identity happens,
where I realized the
engineer at the past 20 years
at that point, and what was
the weekend drinking habit
became at least upon a
night with pills, man,
he named it to go to sleep, really
tearing up myself, man.
And my wife was a game of the ultimate,
and hey, it's either the
bottle or me and your daughter.
And I tell people, I've
been called many call signs,
arrow gunner, smile, Uncle Tito,
which is about drinking in itself.
And the best call someone
ever has when my daughter
called me dad, man, and that's when I
decided to get help,
and I did the prolonged exposure therapy.
I tell people, man, remove that stigma.
If you're in a leadership type spot,
no matter where you are,
when your troops see you,
get help, like I saw
other people get help,
it's contagious, and you'll
realize it is okay to get help.
Again, it's okay not to be okay,
but it's not okay to
do nothing about that
as a way to look at it.
Well, it's such a relief.
I went through a divorce
when I was in my early 30s,
and my now ex-wife and I
went at her request to therapy,
and she didn't wanna,
she just stopped going
because she didn't,
it wasn't all my fault.
She didn't like that,
so she stopped going.
But I kept going
because I didn't wanna make
the same mistake that
I had made that time.
And after that, I now look at it like
it's not a weakness.
It's a huge help because
even though we were raised
by great people and lived a great life
up to the point that we lived, there's
things that you miss.
There's things that you don't understand,
and especially in your
situation, you were doing things
that a lot of us don't have never done.
And so who's gonna teach you how to
handle these things?
So I think, I'm gonna
do a Star Trek reference.
So when Star Trek The
Next Generation came out,
they had a spot on the
bridge for a therapist,
and she was right there on the bridge,
and she would talk to
people about their feelings
and all that stuff.
I think everybody
should go through therapy,
whether you're having a problem or not,
so you can have some questions answered
about the right and
wrong, and this is my belief,
and I know it's right, but
I don't have that validation
as to me being right.
And I can well imagine
that some of the thoughts
and feelings that you had
in your military service,
you were confused about.
It just helps somebody guide you.
I mean, they don't tell
you if you're right or wrong,
but they guide you
through that reassurance
that you did the right
thing or so on and so forth.
So I think the therapy side
of things is very important.
Yeah, and I think
just like with your Jeep,
you know when the
scheduled maintenance is,
but some of those
other bumps that may have
threw something off course in the way,
that's the ones that you should,
there's nothing wrong
with taking it into mechanic
just to see, right?
So I look at it as almost
like a checkup type thing
with a vehicle, and I
definitely tell people,
it's not if it's when in that life
where all this stuff bowls over,
you hit that pulling point and it's okay
to take that tactical knee, man.
And in the end, these type professions,
we have to be able to trust you
with our best friend's life.
And someone explained that to me once.
And that really hit home to seek help
and see that it's okay to get help.
And I did give the psychiatrist
with a very big chip on my
shoulder, the cliche of like,
she's like, "Well, you know,"
I was like, "Well, you
wouldn't call your dentist
to fix your car or something like that."
She said, and I was like,
"Well, you know, what
if he's a mechanic?"
You know, and I may be an idiot,
but realizing like, this lady knows so
much about my psyche
that I never knew, you know?
So I said, "Give it a chance
and you'll be
surprised what happens, man."
Mm-hmm.
(laughs)
So I would imagine therapists
have some very interesting things.
I wonder who therapists talk to
about what they go through every day.
That's a good question, man.
I saw this thing and it
was a very real moment.
I didn't put this in the book.
I don't know if I should say this,
but you know, when
they're writing something down,
it was like a meme I saw the day.
I did something like this.
Can I see, you know,
and this laughing
moment with the therapist,
but you definitely, man,
that prolonged exposure therapy,
you're definitely getting uncomfortable
being uncomfortable,
man, and it definitely
made me a better father,
better husband, better airman, you know?
I think that we are put here
to learn how to deal with fear,
because fear will stop
you from thinking correctly
and you'll make wrong decisions.
So I think that is our reason,
dealing with fear and just
knowing it's gonna be okay.
It's a problem, it sucks.
I don't like being in this,
but you know, I'll just step
through it like I always do,
and I'll be a success,
having that confidence
to complete what you need to do.
So yeah, and I think that your book
probably helps people with that.
And also too, it gives
people that have no idea,
has never experienced
what you experienced,
just a taste of that.
Oh yeah, and that
definitely takes you through
to all the emotions
within a couple of hours,
is the most common feedback I get on it.
And it's got some of the, again,
the funniest moments of my life,
the happiest and then the darkest, man.
And there's a saying in the book
that I quoted Henry Ford, right?
When you're going through something,
you're going through the
worst moments of your life, man,
that he says that aircraft
takes off against someone,
not with it, right?
So we can't have lift without some drag,
that's very, very bad, right?
So I think that's part of life, man,
that's part of being human,
and as part of getting on the other side
of that dark tunnel,
man, to that light, man.
So it's a, get help if you need it,
and you'll be glad you did, so.
You know, you mentioned the Jeep
and getting, taking it to
somebody to be repaired.
I don't mind taking it to be repaired
on some things that I'm
questionable about doing,
but I'm standing there watching them,
and that it dawned on me.
You're getting in a plane every night
that somebody else has worked on.
Did you, are you ever
nervous about the mechanics
that were maintaining that plane?
I mean, after a while,
you kind of get used to it,
but they could have a bad
day, they could have a bad night,
and they could dismiss something.
I mean, I guess the worst case is,
as long as the plane
doesn't fall out of the air,
you can always fly back and tell them
to get it right this time.
Yeah, I will say,
from what I experienced,
our maintainers are the best in the world
at what they do in Air Force
Special Operations Command.
They're, man, they burn
them in that oil, you name it,
whatever they gotta do to
get that bird ready, you know,
I trust them with my life,
I'm sure they trust us
with theirs, you know,
so definitely it's, you see
the big picture, you know,
between the mechanics, you know,
and between the logistics people,
between the intel people,
and this big, beautiful
thing called air power
comes together, man, so
it's an awesome thing to see.
So would you say your
book is for military people
or civilians, or yes?
Yeah, I would say both, yeah,
and definitely for
people in uncommon, you know,
type jobs, I would say.
Any plans for an audio book?
Yeah, man, I've heard that a few times,
I wouldn't know how to do that,
I might've told my publisher about that,
but, you know, it
would sound very, you know,
Appalachian if I did
it, man, like I said,
telling you earlier,
man, I probably still read
the fifth grade level,
that twang that came out.
I would get Vin Diesel, personally, I
would get Vin Diesel,
and instead of him
actually speaking every word,
he just says Groot, so
over and over and over again.
The Groot, the Groot special edition.
What was that rock from
Guardians of the Galaxy,
the rock sort of
structure guy, was that not Groot,
what was his name?
I know there was one that
had the Australian accent
that was from Marvel that was with the--
Was it Quakers or?
Yeah, the right guy, I
mean, somebody called me
that guy one time and said, I was like,
"That sounds nothing like that guy."
He was funny, he was really funny.
Yeah.
So, all right, so the books for everyone,
you can get it at
Amazon, what did you say,
Environments of
Noble, pretty much anyplace
you can get a regular book, right?
Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Oh, congratulations on getting somebody
to help you publish your book,
because that's an
ordeal as well, isn't it?
Oh yeah, because what had happened,
I had at least what I
thought was enough for a book,
and on the extent of
all things I received--
Then they corrected you.
(laughing)
I reached out to a war
journalist on LinkedIn,
and I think I searched something like,
Editors for Military
Storage or something like that,
and she responded with him,
and it's Holly McKay, the war journalist,
man, she did a really good job, man,
because about like,
there's a Word document
going back and forth, man, she's like,
hey, what are you
really trying to say here?
What does acting mean here?
Like, getting everything out of me, man,
that I didn't think I had in me,
you know what I mean,
and give them my word,
it was then she recommended a publisher,
which is the hardware of your book,
you know, the cover
page and stuff like that.
Oh, I know you have a copy of the book,
show that for the folks
that are here watching us
on YouTube and Spotify.
Yeah, so it's Moonchild,
it's me and the H Model Gunshot,
and you see the cheeks on it right there,
that's how you recognize it,
and then it's got me
and my mask in the back,
was sort of mixed in with the moon.
I probably have many
craters on my face real,
but, you know, so,
it's an awesome experience to get to
write a book, you know?
Yeah, oh, I imagine,
and that's kind of a
therapy thing as well, right?
Because it's like talking it out,
but you're putting it on paper,
and then you have the
wonderful position to be in
where everybody's correcting you.
So, what the hell does this mean?
Do more of this, do less of this, yeah.
Yeah, it was an awesome experience,
but I will say what I found out,
what writing works for me,
and I'm not this huge famous author,
probably never will be,
probably never be a
man from writing books,
but what I will say,
what has worked a little bit for me is,
the thing you're
afraid to say the most, man,
throw that on paper,
and to see how far
your words travel, bro.
Exactly, so, "Moonchild"
is the name of the book,
and I gotta ask you before we wrap up,
tell us about all the UFOs and UAPs,
especially that one that you flew.
Yeah, I wish I'd have the opportunity,
somebody like, you know, Bob was hard.
That'd be a different book, right?
You wouldn't even talk about it,
you'd say, "Well, I'll tell
you about it in my next book."
That's a good teaser.
Yeah, I mean, I wish, you know,
I mean, I think that it is the,
what is it called, the age
of disclosure now, right?
And you're seeing this
stuff starting to come out,
and, you know, since
the beginning of time,
we've always wondered if
we're alone in the universe,
and, you know, I think it's
very probable and possible
for us not to be the only
intelligent life in this--
Oh my God, there's so
much too at the universe
that we're learning
about, how in the hell,
what kind of mathematical idiot would be
that there would be one
intelligent life form?
It just doesn't make any sense.
Yeah, because I couldn't even,
I thought about the idea, I was like,
I can't even, in my mind,
process how big this universe is.
It's still growing, right?
Or how old this universe really is, man.
And, you know, and I think
that, yeah, like, you know,
there's a very good likelihood,
especially with all
this smoke now, right?
There has to be somewhat of a fire.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, you got some decorated aviators
and Senate hearings, man,
like, seeing some stuff.
I personally never seen anything I can't,
couldn't explain,
always wanted to, right?
But, yeah, man, I think we're not alone
if I would have to put money on it.
So this is so funny.
I've got a good friend, a fellow jeeper,
came out to one of the
Jeep talk show events
that is a naval aviator, used to be.
He's a pilot, commercial
pilot now for many years.
But he actually flew with and trained
with Captain Farber,
the guy that actually
had the TikTok video
and was in front of Congress and stuff.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
And you'll love this,
because you're military.
He told me, you know
how they put the call sign
or the name on the pilot's canopy, F-18,
side of the canopy?
He was sexual Farber.
So they were doing a little twist,
but they never talked about that.
They never talked about that
in front of the Congressman and stuff.
Oh, yeah, yeah, you know
what's funny about the guns?
I actually got a
picture, I may send it to you,
but it's aircraft number 73.
And you know the Tyree scene in
"Transformers," right?
Where he's like
bringing the rain, you know?
And they actually put a Decepticon
on the side of the gunship,
because sometimes the guys for tradition,
they would put a stick man
on the side of the gunship
and a certain one meant so
many enemy killed in action.
But yeah, somebody went ahead
and threw a Decepticon on there, man.
I always get a kick out of that picture.
Oh, yeah, that's really cool.
So, and I'll just wrap up with this.
We laugh and enjoy the idea
that we're taking care of the enemy.
Of course, they're people.
I don't think anybody
really wants to kill people,
but like I said earlier,
if countries got together
and did what was best for
them and the rest of the world,
then we wouldn't have the situation.
I'm not saying the US is always right,
but we don't have to be,
because we got the firepower.
Yeah, I mean, we got,
what was it, the richest, most powerful,
probably most feared
country in the world, man.
And I think it took a lot of, you know,
a lot of spilled blood
for that freedom, you know,
for that flag, so.
And I really appreciate
everybody putting together
all these amazing machines
and training the
amazing people, our soldiers.
I just don't know.
I just don't know if I was
in charge in another country
that I'd want to do anything
to
(beep)
the United States off.
I mean, I think we're slow to act,
but when we act, we
do it and get it done.
At least that's the way I
like seeing it as an American.
Oh, yeah, you know, and if I could,
to tie it to some Jeep stuff here, man,
you know, and talk about ingenuity,
there's something about Americans, man,
where when we have to
do something, we do it.
You ever notice, like
our greatest generation,
like World War II, right?
So Eisenhower himself said that the Jeep
and the C-47 aircraft was
two of the primary things
that want us that war, you know?
Absolutely. You know what I mean?
And I think that level of
awesomeness in the country
and togetherness and the
ingenuity and just, again,
just living bold, you know?
And it's still there.
It hasn't changed.
That ingenuity and the
honor of being American
is still there, just
like it was in World War II.
Like I said, where's that
spirit, there's freedom, and so.
Very, very good.
Anthony, I certainly
appreciate you being here with us today.
Good luck with the book.
I'll have to go over to
Amazon and check it out,
especially look for the Kindle version.
Kindle's so nice.
I mean, if you get the
physical book, that's cool too,
but really all it winds
up doing is, you know,
it goes in the shelf in the background.
You got all these books.
(both laughing)
Kindle's sold is
instantly available and it's a--
It's with you.
It's on your phone, it's in a tablet,
it's on your computer.
So yeah, I think I really like that.
Actually get both, get a
Kindle and a regular book.
Are you doing, are you having any plans
on doing autographs on the book?
Yeah, every now and then
I'll send a signed one.
Some of my emails, me and
anthonyp.directgmo.com,
I do my best to try to, you know,
within my financial
means, get them a copy
that's signed and everything like that.
And yeah, and also I did
one book signing back home
last July in my City Lights bookstore
in Silver, North Carolina.
And that was an awesome experience, man.
So are you on the social media?
Yeah, so Instagram would be all lowercase
Marco_Brollo21 and then Facebook,
this is Moonchild and it's
me looking out the window
with some NPGs on in the moon, so.
So just, I think it would be fun to do.
It's not good PR.
I think it's just funny.
Self-deprecating
humor, I think it's funny.
You go to a book signing and you set up
to sign the books 30
minutes prior to the event time
and you just sit there
waiting to sign books.
(laughing)
Somebody, somebody.
There's been a few people here.
Come here, help me.
I'm all alone.
I just, I think people
would find that funny.
Yeah, I was so
nervous for that team, man,
because it was people
I hadn't seen in like,
I don't know, 30 years
or so, man, you know,
and it was just very
emotional, very overwhelming, man.
But they showed up, man, and I, you know,
went to trade my little small town there
and nestled an
Appalachian for nothing, man, so.
Oh, why do you not whistle
in the woods, an Appalachian?
Because it invites, basically,
when you're along the
woods and you whistle,
it invites whatever entity that is.
There's mountain hanks, there's the
Appalachian skinwalkers,
and basically you're
inviting that spirit in
is the tale behind it, you know?
So people still have
stills and drink a lot of booze
that is questionable in that area, right?
So that's probably the
reason for the whistling.
Yeah, probably, probably let them know
the feds are coming, you know?
Oh, yeah.
Like, that's really where
NASCAR started, you know, was--
Oh, yeah, driving the booze.
Yeah, that's really cool.
All right, I certainly appreciate it.
Thank you so much, and I'm
glad that you go by Anthony
and not Tony, because
having another Tony on here
would just be rough.
Yeah, I was actually
thinking about that, too, man.
But yeah, it was
honestly a pleasure and honor
to be here, Tony, and
I appreciate, you know,
your platform and letting me get on here
and speak to some of
these things, so thank you.
Sure, absolutely.
You have a great day.
Thank you, brother, thank you.
You're my friend, you're my new friend.