WEBVTT 00:00:23.135 --> 00:00:34.234 Welcome to the Json and Scott show this episode is being recorded live from grocery shop in Sunny Las Vegas on September 30th 2025, 00:00:34.288 --> 00:00:42.707 I'm your host Jason retail gee Goldberg and as usual I'm here in person with my co-host Scott Wingo. 00:00:42.857 --> 00:00:57.741 Hey Jason welcome back Jason Scott show listeners and welcome to a live episode I checked and this is the first live episode we've done in 3 years believe it or not and I think we were at a shop talk together. 00:00:57.592 --> 00:01:09.982 Yeah time time flat you know we're coming up on our 10 year anniversary and we used to do these live at these events all the time and then Scott got too busy and fancy to come to the events anymore so welcome back Scott. 00:01:09.682 --> 00:01:17.896 I'm back I'm back in e-commerce and we're excited to have a live guests with us here on the show for the first time is ECT 00:01:17.788 --> 00:01:28.057 Chopra she is the cdio of Elf Beauty and I was telling her I have 2 dollars 26 and 18 and they were you have made me a rock star. 00:01:27.811 --> 00:01:30.304 No there you go. 00:01:30.004 --> 00:01:34.847 And they had very specific questions I I knew we will not be asking around various things so. 00:01:34.547 --> 00:01:36.860 Uh I'm happy to do a Q&A with them. 00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:39.198 You have huge fans out in my house. 00:01:38.898 --> 00:01:41.313 Thank you for having me. 00:01:41.079 --> 00:01:45.327 And Scott's trying to pretend like it's on behalf of his daughters but he's really a fanboy. 00:01:45.027 --> 00:01:47.659 I'm sure I'm sure. 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:50.681 I love new brands and love talking to them so excited to have you on the show. 00:01:50.381 --> 00:01:51.943 Yeah well thank you for having me. 00:01:51.901 --> 00:01:58.078 Yeah and fun fact ecta and I are going to do a a panel at grocery shop tomorrow. 00:01:57.778 --> 00:01:58.914 That's right. 00:01:58.614 --> 00:02:10.733 And so so that will have already happened probably when listeners are listening to this so if you read that it was by far the best panel in the history of grocery shop you you are in on the origin story. 00:02:10.433 --> 00:02:13.029 There you go this is how how it all started. 00:02:12.753 --> 00:02:21.544 And the big big thing to watch for is Jason changes his socks based on the mood of the panel so earlier today he was wearing his uh yeah this is an odd. 00:02:17.650 --> 00:02:25.233 Oh my is whoa okay there you go and tomorrow. 00:02:22.608 --> 00:02:28.665 During his Sam's Club socks so I don't know if you had any elf socks on you he will wear those tomorrow so. 00:02:27.451 --> 00:02:30.840 Oh shhh I I couldn't get it I'm so sorry. 00:02:29.777 --> 00:02:31.254 Dang it all right. 00:02:30.978 --> 00:02:33.292 Yeah I am I'm not above pandering and. 00:02:32.992 --> 00:02:36.102 Uh I I do have a lip gloss though a lemon. 00:02:35.852 --> 00:02:36.897 Oh yeah. 00:02:36.647 --> 00:02:38.417 11 lip gloss. 00:02:38.117 --> 00:02:43.134 I I may or may not be you know wearing uh an elf sunscreen right now that my wife. 00:02:43.207 --> 00:02:44.979 Ah that there you go. 00:02:44.679 --> 00:02:49.216 And if we hear Jason's lips are particularly shiny and glossy then we know what it was. 00:02:48.922 --> 00:02:50.417 There you go. 00:02:50.117 --> 00:02:56.901 Yeah yeah uh so active before we jump into it I I have a feeling listeners have already stalked you on LinkedIn, 00:02:57.154 --> 00:03:07.279 but you know you you have a senior role for 1 of the the coolest digital brands out there like how does 1 come to that sort of role can you tell us a little bit about how you you came to your path. 00:03:07.069 --> 00:03:12.849 Yeah I mean I think coming to elf was really sort of 00:03:12.717 --> 00:03:20.385 I would say very lucky because I was just in the middle of looking for a new job I had my career where I worked for women's fashion accessories 00:03:20.265 --> 00:03:29.867 private equity and then you know I took a foundation job because I was going to start my family and boy oh boy it was so slow and then, 00:03:30.114 --> 00:03:31.652 I was like I'm screaming. 00:03:31.352 --> 00:03:32.523 Committee meetings. 00:03:32.223 --> 00:03:45.070 Oh my God I wanted to like go back to retail consumer goods somewhere where I it's really chaotic and reached out to my investor community and they recommended somebody recommended else and, 00:03:45.347 --> 00:03:47.209 you know that was 10 years ago. 00:03:47.486 --> 00:04:00.657 Uh well you say lucky for you I would say lucky for Elf but did they sell you a bill of goods did they tell you it's a oh beauty is a super simple thing it never changes it just you figure out an equation and you just run it for 10 years right. 00:04:00.454 --> 00:04:14.983 Yeah when I came it was like basically was the year 2016 January 4th is when I started and that was the year when they went public in September and it was brought in to like really sort of set them up from a technology perspective, 00:04:15.164 --> 00:04:26.989 and it was just I fell in love day 1 like crazy chaos everyone's working just just an amazing brand and just the origin is just amazing so. 00:04:26.899 --> 00:04:41.525 Very cool now I have a feeling a lot of our listeners are very familiar with elf but for for a few of Scott's fans who may not be um would can you kind of give us the the the bullet on on elf and and where you guys sit in the Echo System. 00:04:41.225 --> 00:04:49.241 So I would say we are a bold disruptor with a kind heart that's sort of how we what our Persona is and if I think about 00:04:49.121 --> 00:04:55.406 elf started 2004 and that's the year when Facebook actually 00:04:55.328 --> 00:05:06.349 you know launched so our origin story started with the shama brothers who started selling 1 dollar makeup online and digital was e-commerce at the at that time but 00:05:06.265 --> 00:05:11.522 to sell makeup for $1 online at that moment in time was very disruptive, 00:05:11.571 --> 00:05:20.470 so this that's where sort of the disruption is in our DNA testing and learning is in our DNA we always like to say is Zips first, 00:05:20.506 --> 00:05:32.416 phase first because you know we always want to be the first to meet our community wherever they're going our of course we are multi-generational as you said 18 years old and 27 years old, 00:05:32.494 --> 00:05:47.246 but we also have I met somebody in Barcelona on my vacation and she was in her 60s and she said oh my God I fell in love with elf because my daughter loved elf and I started using the same makeup so it truly is a multi-generational 00:05:47.115 --> 00:05:47.937 brand. 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:56.999 That's amazing and just to ground folks 2004 is 2 years before Mr jobs like went into his back pocket and goes oh and 1 more 1 more thing. 00:05:55.257 --> 00:05:59.288 1 more thing just just 1 little thing. 00:05:57.937 --> 00:06:05.766 Yeah and I've always read the forward facing camera which came 4 years later from the iPhone launched somewhere in there it like totally changed the makeup game. 00:06:03.555 --> 00:06:09.516 Oh yes of course yeah there you go. 00:06:07.221 --> 00:06:14.077 Would take selfies so yeah huge game changer so it's great time to be in the makeup game it is. 00:06:11.764 --> 00:06:16.456 Perfect for Instagram and you know yeah there you go the filters. 00:06:16.156 --> 00:06:23.605 Yeah yeah um and so I'm assuming that day 1 the the $1 Cosmetics that was predominantly a direct to consumer. 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:25.350 That is correct that is correct. 00:06:24.192 --> 00:06:29.015 Play but that's not your situation today today you're you're really an omni Channel. 00:06:28.727 --> 00:06:36.797 We are we are 20 80% almost our business is still distribution and international and the rest 20 00:06:36.743 --> 00:06:45.865 direct to Consumer what has changed is that in the past 5 years we've gone from Elf Cosmetics to now 00:06:45.793 --> 00:06:55.521 where of Cosmetics elf skin well people key soul care which is our Alicia Keys Brand natorium and now Road skin with Haley Weaver 00:06:55.486 --> 00:06:59.740 so our portfolio has just grown so the umbrella is off Beauty. 00:07:00.137 --> 00:07:02.330 Jason is Hailey Bieber's biggest fan. 00:07:02.378 --> 00:07:06.047 I really there there you go and there you go. 00:07:05.797 --> 00:07:08.819 Whoa nice he's all about the road. 00:07:06.761 --> 00:07:10.298 Rude. 00:07:10.250 --> 00:07:13.192 Is for listeners that can't see aren't watching the video version of, 00:07:14.410 --> 00:07:21.000 um uh ELCA has a super cool iPhone case uh that is actually holding. 00:07:20.700 --> 00:07:22.031 I thought it was a battery at first. 00:07:21.781 --> 00:07:23.001 No 00:07:22.991 --> 00:07:24.996 It is the lip gloss holder. 00:07:25.020 --> 00:07:27.231 That is right. 00:07:27.274 --> 00:07:30.722 Web bomb in in the case so it is always ready which I I have. 00:07:30.813 --> 00:07:32.243 Jason super jelly. 00:07:31.943 --> 00:07:33.481 There. 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:36.828 Yeah yeah yeah yeah I've I've figured out when my wife's birthday present now. 00:07:36.834 --> 00:07:38.739 There you go. 00:07:38.469 --> 00:07:42.120 Honey I hope you're not I know you don't listen to my podcast so you're fine it's fine it won't split. 00:07:42.020 --> 00:07:43.594 Maybe today she will. 00:07:43.494 --> 00:07:48.311 Yeah well more likely like her friends listening to the podcast will out me to her, 00:07:50.012 --> 00:07:57.920 uh I I tried to convince her that she should really get a gaming laptop for her her birthday but that didn't seem like she was very excited about it either yeah. 00:07:57.710 --> 00:08:01.639 That that's 1 of those that sounds like a gift more for you women are very good at sniffing that out. 00:07:59.969 --> 00:08:02.805 Yeah yeah. 00:08:02.505 --> 00:08:08.940 If only there was some way that the computers could get smart enough that you could just kind of have a dialogue with it and it could suggest a birthday gift. 00:08:08.640 --> 00:08:14.318 Uh there there you go Chad GPT right. 00:08:14.018 --> 00:08:21.830 Um and so so you think about your tenure career and we're we're you know at the launch of Facebook Instagram's not a thing yet we're, 00:08:22.173 --> 00:08:24.864 were predating the iPhone, 00:08:24.949 --> 00:08:39.094 and today I really think of beauty as sort of a digital leader that's often been a first mover and and you guys in particular are usually 1 of the very first Brands out with, 00:08:39.184 --> 00:08:44.514 all these sort of new touch points and so I'm I'm sort of curious like, 00:08:44.719 --> 00:08:54.645 is that just part of the brand that whenever there's something new you feel like you have to be there and maybe some of them will hit some of them will miss or or like do you now have data that that's, 00:08:54.796 --> 00:09:04.620 where your your customers are and you need to meet her where she is like what goes into the calculus of you know as we record this ched gbt announced instant Commerce 2 days ago, 00:09:05.065 --> 00:09:12.768 so I imagine if there there probably already were a bunch of conversations about if and how you guys would lean into something like that like. 00:09:12.553 --> 00:09:21.367 Absolutely I would say first and foremost it's less about being on a platform but more about where is our community and making sure, 00:09:21.638 --> 00:09:26.211 wherever our community goes we are there for them so it started with the Tik Tok, 00:09:26.217 --> 00:09:38.235 you know almost like 5 years ago and there was it was just a thing and then we knew we wanted to lean in and it starts with hey let's just test and learn we don't know anything we're just going to jump in 00:09:38.127 --> 00:09:41.774 and then we got signals and the signals told us our community 00:09:41.751 --> 00:09:52.861 is starting to move there so then we partnered with movers and shakers which is now part of stag wall basically and what we ended up doing was they brought their expert 00:09:52.723 --> 00:10:02.403 expertise on Tik Tok shop the New Gen Z they need a platform really well and we leaned in and we had the biggest campaign on Tik Tok from a beauty perspective 00:10:02.362 --> 00:10:07.926 at that moment so I would say that it's all about going with our community is, 00:10:08.010 --> 00:10:12.511 we know it's not day 1 we might not know anything but once we get signals we lean in. 00:10:14.224 --> 00:10:18.406 Are you seeing them on chat chat just like yeah I don't need to know any signals but. 00:10:16.435 --> 00:10:19.253 100% yeah. 00:10:18.953 --> 00:10:31.938 Cuz all the data I look at the survey data says you know like 800 million active users half are doing some kind of shopping but then if you look at the demographics it skews um largely younger and and kind of into that demographic sweet spot for you guys. 00:10:31.638 --> 00:10:42.472 Exactly I mean even if like fun fact I mean I'm a lifelong learner and recently I've been spending a lot of time with like house searches changing is our content showing up on search as we 00:10:42.448 --> 00:10:45.993 had a brief discussion about AEO SEO Geo right 00:10:45.958 --> 00:10:54.105 all of that is changing so I'm really grateful to have an amazing team they've been doing this work for almost a year now 00:10:53.938 --> 00:10:57.308 all our content we're trying to get it ready so it is 00:10:57.183 --> 00:11:06.148 showing up on chat gbt on perplexity and all the new you know AI engine so we we do try to stay ahead 00:11:05.956 --> 00:11:14.554 because we know our community is going over there it's a lot of work and it's just at the beginning and the fun fact that I learned was an average search is like, 00:11:14.597 --> 00:11:24.529 6 words right it could be show me something right on Google right like it it would be very simple but if you go to chat gbt average is 23 words, 00:11:24.908 --> 00:11:35.532 I am this tone I want this ingredient I want something in you know for skin or I want a routine so imagine the amount of content Supply changing 00:11:35.430 --> 00:11:42.496 need it is incredible so it is a lot of work that we started to do but it's a lot of work ahead that we still have to do. 00:11:42.857 --> 00:11:52.910 As a manager you've got these things that are not changing fast and then things that are changing fast I imagine even on the product the the physical product side you have that too, 00:11:53.055 --> 00:11:59.274 how do you manage that is there 2 teams that manage that or do you have like an incubator piece and then a, 00:11:59.424 --> 00:12:03.895 you know this is a platform that's not going to change how how do you manage that those 2 different speeds. 00:12:03.793 --> 00:12:10.120 Yeah I would say that elf speed is a tagline everybody wears proudly, 00:12:10.692 --> 00:12:17.103 because you know if I compare ourselves to like the big you know sort of Beauty Brands and so forth, 00:12:17.350 --> 00:12:26.513 they have a lot of people they have the muscle power we are almost 1.5 billion dollars with 650 people, 00:12:26.844 --> 00:12:32.648 we are very productive with what we do everybody has to have the test and learn culture 00:12:32.546 --> 00:12:42.076 Need for Speed is part of our culture and doing that as quickly as we can with no red tape is part of our culture so I would say that 00:12:42.047 --> 00:12:45.712 throughout the organization of speed is a thing, 00:12:46.079 --> 00:12:55.735 and so it's not 2 different things everyone when we know that we have big campaigns we all come together and if we have 1 thing that we say is 1 Team 1 dream, 00:12:56.096 --> 00:13:02.579 people say it as a cliche I say we do it we do it loud and proud in the organization. 00:13:03.085 --> 00:13:07.927 Do you do you actually think that that your your size which you're obviously not small, 00:13:08.216 --> 00:13:20.841 but your your size for the the amount of business you do is a is a potential advantage that you you you have less sort of institutional silos you have less innovators dilemma and I imagine in some of these 00:13:20.835 --> 00:13:29.740 these bigger more established companies that have been around for decades that jumping on on these new opportunities is more challenging. 00:13:29.591 --> 00:13:38.291 100% And I think that is 1 of our superpowers and it starts from the top our CEO tangam mean his whole thing is we, 00:13:38.508 --> 00:13:43.958 we no matter how big we get we have to be able to maintain our it's day 1, 00:13:44.295 --> 00:13:51.637 and there's a word that are my CMO always sort of talks about its social and it's a Japanese word it is about like 00:13:51.554 --> 00:14:00.411 day 1 like how do you start you're like a lifelong Learner in in literal meaning so for us that is something that we start from the top, 00:14:00.567 --> 00:14:04.274 and really sort of embedded in our culture through and through. 00:14:04.275 --> 00:14:12.783 Yeah I feel like there's some bookstore in the Pacific Northwest that I feel like is into that whole day 1 day 1 culture too yeah I don't I don't. 00:14:13.036 --> 00:14:14.971 Sadly they're not they're not really. 00:14:15.009 --> 00:14:17.543 Ivan not anymore. 00:14:17.243 --> 00:14:20.455 There's something that like when you when you get to 2 or 3 trillion it kind of breaks down. 00:14:20.205 --> 00:14:21.466 I'm I'm sure. 00:14:21.216 --> 00:14:22.650 We call that a high class problem. 00:14:22.531 --> 00:14:29.459 Yeah and that is something that you know if you talked about what keeps us up is like how do you maintain that culture because the bigger you get, 00:14:29.531 --> 00:14:42.540 now we are expanding in international we went from just being in US offices to we have an office in London we have an office in India we have an office in China so as the culture scales, 00:14:42.601 --> 00:14:49.535 and you know your company scales how do you like maintain that in your DNA it's a challenge. 00:14:49.760 --> 00:14:58.032 For sure so you you already breached the topic of of AI and obviously Scott's chomping at the bit because he he thinks it's going to be a thing I the jury's out. 00:14:58.465 --> 00:15:02.010 In a skeptical just like he he was about Tik Tok and everything else. 00:15:02.220 --> 00:15:04.471 Yeah and and for sure retail media Networks, 00:15:06.050 --> 00:15:08.157 there have been feuds on the podcast about. 00:15:07.857 --> 00:15:13.199 I have I've heard them I've heard them yes yes not news you guys are the ogs. 00:15:12.899 --> 00:15:19.166 I I yes what we lack in insight and value we we make up for an age, 00:15:23.102 --> 00:15:26.971 but so I actually want to go back in time a little bit before the, 00:15:27.296 --> 00:15:33.473 at the topic of AI was the dower like way back in the day there was this thing called like social and influencer, 00:15:33.648 --> 00:15:43.827 um which obvious I'm being sarcastic but is obviously super important in in the beauty space so you you mentioned Tik Tok shop who also is going to be on our panel tomorrow so that'll be. 00:15:43.527 --> 00:15:45.485 Ah there you go. 00:15:45.444 --> 00:15:48.682 Uh but before they even did Commerce 00:15:48.671 --> 00:16:01.313 I would have argued that like it would the the Advent of these social media networks and and in the United States at least in particular Tik Tok have been super important because the I think about 2006, 00:16:01.452 --> 00:16:10.693 or 2004 rather mom is taking her daughter to Macy's and they're having their first cosmetic experience and they're discovering those cosmetics, 00:16:11.685 --> 00:16:16.107 at that that vendor provided display in Macy's um, 00:16:17.009 --> 00:16:22.519 I'm not going to be too too mean but like not a lot less people are going to Macy's to discover cosmetics, 00:16:23.866 --> 00:16:27.513 and my hypothesis is people are probably not discovering l, 00:16:27.621 --> 00:16:39.333 the first time at that shelf that before they ever get to the store they already know the elf is what they're looking for because their favorite micro influencers have already talked about it on on the, 00:16:39.682 --> 00:16:53.640 Tik Tok so and and you guys were were an early sort of mover in in that space and I imagine it didn't happen by accident like did you like was that something that you had to evangelize for people to really sort of 00:16:53.629 --> 00:16:58.710 lean in and I I can imagine like everybody's like oh man it's it's these celebrities we have. 00:16:58.460 --> 00:17:00.106 Yeah. 00:16:58.786 --> 00:17:07.816 Hire all these celebrities and and you guys really you know we're very successful at building an army of of influential people that weren't necessarily all celebrities. 00:17:07.534 --> 00:17:16.282 Yeah I would say that when we did the campaign there were many celebrities that did our hashtag song but we didn't pay them, 00:17:16.685 --> 00:17:27.213 there is a virality that comes with Tik Tok shop and I was doing more than influencer it's the content creators it's the you know somebody who's, 00:17:27.448 --> 00:17:40.343 first it was like it's for young people know I'm on Tik Tok and by the way I have 32 1,000 followers I'm no way a gen Z or a millennial but I think. 00:17:40.746 --> 00:17:50.528 So it is it is a platform that brings a culture which moves at speed of swipe to life and, 00:17:50.715 --> 00:18:00.527 it is constantly changing and now shop has already changed it in many ways the accessibility and that impulse buy you know, 00:18:00.570 --> 00:18:10.646 and even the different types of creators is it live is it you know you're doing live shopping are you doing engagement what are you doing and the type of creators that are showing up, 00:18:10.875 --> 00:18:15.832 authenticity is what really really is important and I do think that, 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:23.368 it's also blurring the lines between Affiliates and commissions that you use to pay and so forth so 00:18:23.362 --> 00:18:32.628 Tik Tok has changed this whole landscape altogether and and for us it's now how do you sort of adapt to this Creator economy and I think that's, 00:18:32.760 --> 00:18:41.948 what we call connected Commerce now in many ways is it's not just like what happens there but the Halo impact that happens to the full ecosystem. 00:18:41.768 --> 00:18:49.555 Yeah and what's been interesting to me is here here in the west the that that Creator economy has been super important and that's where the, 00:18:49.802 --> 00:18:58.172 the demand the discovery was happening and that's where the desire was happening early on in in China commerce was also happening, 00:18:59.254 --> 00:19:09.896 not so much here right like there were all these early you know Facebook Shops and and all of these different pilots and you know there was all these these interesting debates like gosh, 00:19:09.950 --> 00:19:14.397 China just ahead of us and it's a time machine and it's going to get it opted here or is, 00:19:14.475 --> 00:19:24.017 fundamental differences in the in the markets but then you've mentioned Tik Tok shop a couple times like in my mind Tik Tok shop was really the first social platform to sort of, 00:19:24.643 --> 00:19:27.412 very successfully break through in that, 00:19:27.647 --> 00:19:34.713 and really kind of shorten that cycle from from desire to fulfillment because so many people are buying, 00:19:35.363 --> 00:19:47.116 and I'm I'm curious do you like in your mind is there a is there an obvious reason like what did Tik Tok shop do to sort of unlock that that Commerce where a lot of their their predecessors had not been successful. 00:19:46.852 --> 00:19:54.940 I would say it comes down to because it started as not shopping right it's it it was influencing shopping but it wasn't shopping 00:19:54.826 --> 00:20:04.560 because we were the first Enterprise brand to integrate with Tik Tok shop as well so I would say that they really fixed 00:20:04.483 --> 00:20:06.603 they they fixed the plumbing, 00:20:06.760 --> 00:20:18.531 I call myself plumber sometimes because there's pipes that if they're not connected and your consumer experience is fragmented they're not going to come that's why I don't think Instagram shop could ever do what Tik Tok shop, 00:20:18.838 --> 00:20:28.194 and that's because they really focused on these authentic connections building that connection authentically with the consumer but then ensuring that, 00:20:28.249 --> 00:20:32.851 they didn't didn't just launched shop you know sort of in a 00:20:32.707 --> 00:20:43.583 haphazard way it was very well thought out there is a platform for creators there's a platform for the brands how the checkout happens they take every single thing into account, 00:20:43.614 --> 00:20:51.010 the very open to doing unique things for Unique Brands so I think it's a lot about how much thought that they have put, 00:20:51.323 --> 00:20:57.332 into the platform that's why I think they they're more successful than any other Commerce platform. 00:20:57.296 --> 00:21:06.394 Yeah yeah and I I do have a hypothesis that it had to be Brands like you that that would have been the first movers because you think about it you know the, 00:21:06.803 --> 00:21:13.593 the more established cosmetic brand of that time we're not direct to Consumer right like they were all wholesale Brands and, 00:21:13.924 --> 00:21:25.563 the they were they were investing in Tik Tok as a as a brand platform and as a media channel um but then suddenly when this new thing Tik Tok shop you know arrived suddenly you needed, 00:21:25.797 --> 00:21:30.664 a fulfillment arm and you needed to do new complicated things like set a price and. 00:21:30.364 --> 00:21:37.220 Or partner with retailer and they weren't really into that you know they were like I just want to sell on my site I don't want to sell on Tik Tok I want the traffic. 00:21:37.173 --> 00:21:44.371 And what you know people still underestimate the Hilo impact of Tik Tok on the broader ecosystem, 00:21:44.660 --> 00:21:50.993 it's that consumer that sees a video and wants an impel impulse Buy, 00:21:51.240 --> 00:22:00.127 then they want to they love altar they want to use their Awards and some product launches in Alta like there's a big influence that comes from there. 00:22:00.157 --> 00:22:04.988 Oh I totally agree and I actually think people underestimate the value of Tik Tok shop because they, 00:22:05.211 --> 00:22:16.297 because it does have transactions they look at their transaction volume and they say well the ROI is the the net income on on those transactions and that is absolutely a a major contributor, 00:22:17.073 --> 00:22:29.145 all of those those Tik Tok shop Impressions like I you know for every 1 of those that results in a transaction I'm sure 10 of those result in a consumer in an aisle at, 00:22:29.818 --> 00:22:30.893 before uh yeah. 00:22:30.629 --> 00:22:40.081 We see those spikes every time something goes viral on Tik Tok shop for us we see this bike not just in our direct to Consumer but overall, 00:22:40.136 --> 00:22:42.695 that week is amazing 00:22:42.593 --> 00:22:55.723 so I do think that that is a big big factor and how that changes with the algorithm and you know sort of what's happening with the company but I I think it's still a major influence on the consumers shopping Behavior. 00:22:56.456 --> 00:23:02.249 You guys are selling so many places do you spend a lot of time thinking about attribution because I imagine, 00:23:02.964 --> 00:23:14.976 so so I'm of the the the world that it's just like unknowable so so you just kind of have to look at big trends like spikes and things Jason believes you can have a CDP and plug it to a thing and track everybody. 00:23:15.884 --> 00:23:17.998 As per usual Scott Wilding this character. 00:23:19.796 --> 00:23:30.792 I like to put words in the mouth but uh there are a set of people which may or may not include Json that think you can spend enough time and get 90% of the way there and that gives you where do you guys fall on that Spectrum. 00:23:30.774 --> 00:23:44.685 I would say that you know we do have a CDP we also have a very Omni Channel loyalty program we don't care where you buy as long as we can maintain that relationship we have almost 6 million members, 00:23:44.967 --> 00:23:55.243 they can shop anywhere they can scan their receipt and they can reward however they want they can get venmo card they can get you dollars they can get PayPal they can get Amazon card. 00:23:54.943 --> 00:23:57.700 So I can double dip for all all you folks listening. 00:23:58.428 --> 00:24:03.337 Exactly so for us it's really important that, 00:24:03.487 --> 00:24:10.073 you know we don't want to restrict our consumer we want to give them options and then we want them to give give them a reason, 00:24:10.212 --> 00:24:22.590 to come to our site and that could be experiences it could be special launches it could be what we do with beauty Squad it could be special products that we drop and things like that so I would say that we 00:24:22.536 --> 00:24:27.559 probably you know we have to be mindful of the retailers needs wants and desires, 00:24:27.620 --> 00:24:32.667 but that's why we try to take a neutral stand of you know our consumers, 00:24:33.034 --> 00:24:39.698 all the options that they want and those options are just increasing with what's happening with shopping in general so. 00:24:39.800 --> 00:24:48.020 And uh feel free not to answer this do you guys sell directly on Amazon in like a third-party kind of model or is that all a first-party kind of thing or it's not on Amazon at all. 00:24:47.840 --> 00:25:01.667 And no we are on Amazon we are big on Amazon so I would say that definitely first Party 1 p and this relationship goes back since the origin when we started selling 00:25:01.601 --> 00:25:10.909 but around 4 years ago we really Amazon is everyone all the retailers don't you know really particularly care, 00:25:11.252 --> 00:25:16.107 appreciate and uh so it also took a lot of 00:25:16.035 --> 00:25:28.966 organizational change management to gain PE get people's Buy in tell them via Amazon was important and what we can gain from it and when we saw the numbers with the focus well they've been, 00:25:29.231 --> 00:25:31.274 skyrocketing so. 00:25:31.785 --> 00:25:36.093 Yeah so I feel like Scott's been very patient and chomping at the bit on the on the AI. 00:25:35.793 --> 00:25:37.114 AI topic yes. 00:25:37.199 --> 00:25:48.441 Yeah so so you've gone through these multiple iterations and we we did social influencer and then we did social commerce and you you guys basically I won't say or I'll say it for you you dominated all those platforms, 00:25:48.760 --> 00:26:00.844 um and so now we have the robots and Scott is of the opinion that is going to put all of those old things out of business that we won't have websites anymore and uh we won't have stores anymore and it's. 00:26:00.995 --> 00:26:04.694 Alright Mama yeah. 00:26:03.248 --> 00:26:06.931 Scot wingo and Marc Andre and a robot selling everything. 00:26:05.930 --> 00:26:07.791 There you go there you go there you go. 00:26:06.908 --> 00:26:20.283 And so 1 1 thing that's interesting about AI is there's kind of 3 buckets that people are investing in there's there's kind of infrastructure so the creation of your products and you guys are a lean team so I imagine you're already using it, 00:26:20.566 --> 00:26:26.954 augment that that that's like a Hallmark of that and so there's like efficiency pricing and back office kind of. 00:26:26.678 --> 00:26:27.831 Mhm mhm. 00:26:27.597 --> 00:26:31.827 And then there's kind of things I call below the homepage so better search. 00:26:30.067 --> 00:26:32.356 Yeah mhm. 00:26:32.056 --> 00:26:44.506 Recommendations maybe make the Loyalty program smarter then there's the stuff above the homepage which is the channels and you know should you know how do you optimize your products on the answer engines what do you guys you know, 00:26:44.747 --> 00:26:50.593 what what can you say is going on there and and what are some interesting things you think about and all those buckets. 00:26:50.504 --> 00:26:58.669 I would say the first 1 that we already spoke about like search how search is changing and how you show up on these new newer platforms, 00:26:59.018 --> 00:27:05.255 content content content so I would say our number 1 Focus has been very much around that, 00:27:05.430 --> 00:27:16.216 the second bucket is around with the existing platforms that are coming out with AI capabilities we are turning them on to just learn because that content then needs a supply chain, 00:27:16.234 --> 00:27:23.908 right every uh we serve every eye lip and face well that's a lot of eyes lips and face that's a lot of content. 00:27:23.644 --> 00:27:24.707 Twice as many eyes as. 00:27:24.407 --> 00:27:28.679 There you go so then how do you. 00:27:27.852 --> 00:27:30.367 And when you say platforms that's like meta having AI. 00:27:30.067 --> 00:27:33.240 Exactly or if it's having like we. 00:27:32.940 --> 00:27:35.445 Or on Amazon Rufus or all okay. 00:27:35.145 --> 00:27:40.162 Exactly so turning on those capabilities for personalization, 00:27:40.205 --> 00:27:50.396 um and then there are things that we're testing on ourselves so we created a product called aluer and that was when Chad GPD just came out we were like okay, 00:27:50.516 --> 00:28:00.605 what is this saying we want to learn and we just learned by doing so we ended up training all our social comments for the past 5 years we built a product on Amazon's bedrock, 00:28:00.653 --> 00:28:12.232 you know sort of platform and essentially it has now been trained that 90% of the comments are autogenerated by AI but we have human in the loop so the community manager 00:28:12.227 --> 00:28:25.392 still has to make sure it's you know good it can go out there but it's reduced their time greatly right so it depends on we're testing and learning in all different areas whether it be experienced, 00:28:25.435 --> 00:28:35.860 whether it be you know sort of showing things up better more personalized to them or showing up on the engines that are now going to be the future like perplexity and chat gbt. 00:28:36.486 --> 00:28:39.952 Do you ever feed it back into product development where you. 00:28:39.941 --> 00:28:53.557 We're starting to so I would say that is something that we're starting to look at we've you know we started with hey let's just build and kind of learn and then we went into all right these platforms are coming out with their, 00:28:54.026 --> 00:29:02.685 things like every everything is an AI but is it really an AI so we leaned into certain partners that we felt were truly you know AI 00:29:02.625 --> 00:29:14.787 they were not just like smoke and mirrors like fenticonazole 00:29:14.691 --> 00:29:20.477 it's not 1 thing it's multiple different things that we're testing because this landscape is changing so much. 00:29:20.466 --> 00:29:32.652 Yeah now I've seen some retailers again you know the organizationally they'll have like a separate AI team like a chief AI officer and stuff and but I noticed on LinkedIn you've got kind of like you know your title and then bar AI so it seems like, 00:29:33.542 --> 00:29:36.023 pulled into your orbit more than like a separate thing. 00:29:35.723 --> 00:29:36.900 Yeah so. 00:29:36.907 --> 00:29:41.990 So do you see it cutting like is it cutting across horizontally across everything or is it like a vertical. 00:29:42.231 --> 00:29:49.387 Horizontal across everything I am you know I just happen to enable it I would say that just like when you think about, 00:29:49.796 --> 00:29:59.825 there's AI generative ai agentic ai the different forms and AGI like all of that Journey at the very first there it's data, 00:30:00.408 --> 00:30:05.672 you think about data data is currently is in tables you have to turn data into a dialogue, 00:30:06.069 --> 00:30:11.651 that's cataloging knowing what your data is where it is tagging it like that's a lot of Plumbing work, 00:30:11.837 --> 00:30:21.560 and then its Integrations how do you then integrate seamlessly so you can capitalize on the Big Value you know generative AI use cases. 00:30:21.993 --> 00:30:29.167 The the at my previous company Channel advisor we never really got into this Pim thing but now it's coming up all the time and knowing. 00:30:28.314 --> 00:30:29.768 Yeah. 00:30:29.468 --> 00:30:41.324 And it's weird like I had a conversation today where they're like can you take the data that you guys you know we enrich your data and they're like can you put it back in the pin and I was like sure and then they said but we also use salsify for this other thing you know. 00:30:41.024 --> 00:30:42.838 Yeah. 00:30:42.538 --> 00:30:46.461 Because I thought soft everyone I talked to that has a pimp they don't really use it. 00:30:46.221 --> 00:30:47.885 They did. 00:30:47.585 --> 00:30:48.893 Have you figured out this pimp, 00:30:49.474 --> 00:30:51.154 because it's a perplexing to me I don't. 00:30:50.854 --> 00:30:54.736 Uh it is still perplexing to me so what I would say is. 00:30:54.796 --> 00:30:57.242 Maybe Jason knows it we'll we'll have to hit him up here. 00:30:56.942 --> 00:31:03.749 So what I what is working is syndication right like every retailer wants certain pdps in a certain way, 00:31:03.834 --> 00:31:16.765 so salsify or whether it be syndigo they all provide similar like you can Syndicate right but it doesn't S solve for in some cases the enrichment piece which is, 00:31:16.844 --> 00:31:30.676 so so critical it's how people are shopping and buying and that is evolving so it's very similar to what's happening with search and I think it's like how do you enrich it now for these AI platform, 00:31:30.959 --> 00:31:31.583 so 00:31:31.494 --> 00:31:42.424 Yes to your point like people people kind of got trained by Google to search a certain way by keyword and now Chachi PT is training them to search by conversation and that's a whole another set of. 00:31:42.322 --> 00:31:44.178 Another sad altogether. 00:31:43.878 --> 00:31:49.496 I don't know if the things that call themselves pims but aren't really pims are set up for that or not. 00:31:48.475 --> 00:31:51.119 Yeah yeah that's a million dollar question. 00:31:50.909 --> 00:31:52.243 What do you think about pims Jason. 00:31:52.694 --> 00:32:06.388 Yeah well it's a it's a tool and when properly deployed can be a useful tool for your point in the vast majority of organizations they probably have multiple pims and they're each owned by different stakeholders with different size. 00:32:06.088 --> 00:32:07.672 But they'll say that we have 1 source of. 00:32:07.422 --> 00:32:11.165 It's not a it's not a single source of Truth yeah it's rarely. 00:32:10.915 --> 00:32:11.969 Understand that. 00:32:14.116 --> 00:32:28.237 I would I would say other than like some very newish digitally native companies like the Pim is rarely the source of Truth you run you wrote a funny article on on LinkedIn saying like hey if your vendor is more than 10 years old they're probably not a native AI company, 00:32:28.814 --> 00:32:42.328 um and in that in the same way all of these companies were doing business and had product catalogs for many years before they had a Pim so so the Pim became an and not a instead of, 00:32:42.563 --> 00:32:46.781 um solution which is problematic and unfortunate. 00:32:46.763 --> 00:32:48.926 Yeah for sure. 00:32:50.014 --> 00:32:52.465 I do think though like to me the, 00:32:52.875 --> 00:33:02.927 it's it's a good starting point to think about oh man the ai's appetite for enrichment and um uh these these, 00:33:03.601 --> 00:33:10.859 much more context um is much higher right and and we already weren't good at it like if we forget AI, 00:33:11.040 --> 00:33:16.874 we all had bad product catalogs right and it's super easy to find bad examples in the, 00:33:17.019 --> 00:33:24.957 if we think about the pandemic when suddenly everyone had to start grocery shopping online and grocery has this this unique problem we don't, 00:33:25.107 --> 00:33:37.077 know the inventory when we're going to pick your product so we're always going to have out of stocks and have to do Replacements right so suddenly everybody's like writing software to suggest Replacements and, 00:33:37.246 --> 00:33:50.333 The Replacements are comical how how bad they they were because our our catalogs like miscategorized things and and had gaps and so we're we're slowly getting better at that and now the the robot wants. 00:33:50.676 --> 00:34:00.122 100 times more attributes for better context so we're all trying to figure that out I actually think the problems even more complex than that because, 00:34:00.422 --> 00:34:10.019 we knew what the customer wanted in her search and we we knew what Google wanted in its algorithm, 00:34:10.229 --> 00:34:18.041 the robot is going to keep changing its mind every day and so it it's non-deterministic so so you go oh man, 00:34:18.149 --> 00:34:23.467 I need a bunch more context for the kind of prompts people are typing into 00:34:23.431 --> 00:34:33.622 Chad gbt today but then tomorrow when apple rolls out a new AI intelligence in its operating system and people, 00:34:33.695 --> 00:34:37.083 like start sending it prompts in a different context, 00:34:37.649 --> 00:34:45.160 it's it's going to want even different attributes so instead of thinking of this as a 1-time problem to be solved its, 00:34:45.448 --> 00:34:52.455 now all of our jobs to to evolve it and resolve it every day on an ongoing basis for the rest of our life. 00:34:52.930 --> 00:34:58.428 We call that job security High 5 yeah yeah woo we'll be doing this podcast forever. 00:34:58.795 --> 00:35:01.202 It's job security for the 2 of you that actually do it, 00:35:01.921 --> 00:35:03.605 I just talked about it so I. 00:35:04.028 --> 00:35:07.814 You just add more slides to salt at some point you'll have like a. 00:35:07.688 --> 00:35:09.226 Yeah there you go. 00:35:09.953 --> 00:35:12.633 Thank you for pretending I don't already have a 2000. 00:35:13.571 --> 00:35:22.302 It's constant Evolution it is changing every single day I started my substack just because I learned by writing and. 00:35:22.002 --> 00:35:23.221 Poster what's your substack. 00:35:22.921 --> 00:35:27.343 So it is called AI chef and basically it is 00:35:27.266 --> 00:35:36.297 you know I I wanted to write about topics that as a public company you know of course I can test and learn but then when it comes to application of it 00:35:36.291 --> 00:35:45.731 I have to be careful I have to think about governance I have to think about how am I going to you know sort of build trust in the model how does it not hallucinate because Chad gbd lies, 00:35:45.948 --> 00:35:46.674 has a lot, 00:35:46.723 --> 00:36:01.511 right right you shocked right and and I think so I started doing that and through the process every week I follow okay what's what's happening and I do a tldr on it and there is so much 00:36:01.493 --> 00:36:09.936 changing so much changing constantly and it is a game of like hey you you got to focus on what, 00:36:10.843 --> 00:36:22.422 the price is going to be at the end of the day we know Commerce is now already conversational so what is the biggest impact well showing those search engines then if you have Shopify already, 00:36:22.447 --> 00:36:33.563 I think you enable that pretty quickly and if you don't then you better figure out really quickly how to enable that so I do think it's picking your battles on where you can focus because, 00:36:33.612 --> 00:36:39.620 there's just a lot that's coming out and some of it is still it's smoke and mirrors I don't think all is real. 00:36:39.663 --> 00:36:52.558 This is a super basic question but when I talked to a lot of retailers and Brands they're kind of hung up at the lowest level so so usually it's either it's an or and maybe even an and so either the legal department is so freaked out by AI, 00:36:53.117 --> 00:37:02.359 they've said absolutely no Ai and then they told the IT department or the IT department on their own or they use like cloudflare 1 of these types of things, 00:37:02.377 --> 00:37:04.846 they've defaulted to no Bots um. 00:37:03.972 --> 00:37:05.105 Yeah yeah. 00:37:04.871 --> 00:37:12.760 So I found a lot of retailers that are really big Advocates at the top of the chain can't even get off you know basically the the 00:37:12.737 --> 00:37:20.410 the 1 yard line because they're they're they're legal and or their it Department won't let them off to how did you convince them that this was an okay thing. 00:37:20.110 --> 00:37:22.946 I think it goes back to elf is a different kind of a company, 00:37:23.529 --> 00:37:35.000 it's a cultural thing it's a mindset for us it is not and we started with the mindset of Learning and Development we want everyone in our organization to be a prompt engineer, 00:37:35.049 --> 00:37:41.207 they must learn how to prompt and it's not just for the company it's for also, 00:37:41.334 --> 00:37:49.139 their careers people's org structures are going to change what people do is going to change the pipeline I, 00:37:49.158 --> 00:37:57.708 art what keeps me up is because I have a 11 year old daughter I think of like how do I get her ready for this because there are jobs that are going to, 00:37:57.781 --> 00:38:05.784 be not there for the young kids so how do you build a a a pipeline for them and how do you get them in those skill sets where, 00:38:05.869 --> 00:38:13.668 you know they will have career so I think Beyond just my you know the work I do but also the generations to come how do you impact them. 00:38:13.645 --> 00:38:16.132 Yeah Jason would tell you join an advertising company. 00:38:17.118 --> 00:38:19.732 Yeah we're we're immune to all. 00:38:19.648 --> 00:38:21.839 You are so immune. 00:38:21.589 --> 00:38:23.457 Someone always needs a Super Bowl. 00:38:24.257 --> 00:38:28.553 Cuz I I'm sure none of these AI companies are mostly focused on replacing us. 00:38:32.868 --> 00:38:36.323 Uh yes yes I yes I feel like um the. 00:38:36.089 --> 00:38:38.161 The Consulting. 00:38:38.841 --> 00:38:40.821 Team has has more problems than, 00:38:41.661 --> 00:38:44.910 I do think it's it's like Mark Zuckerberg is like main keynote now. 00:38:44.610 --> 00:38:48.118 Is I'm going to get rid of agencies. 00:38:48.113 --> 00:38:50.532 I'm glad you heard agencies I just heard pooboo says, 00:38:53.587 --> 00:39:01.595 um no it it is interesting though I I do think you know you mentioned you have an 11 year old I have a 10 year old um Scott's kids are all like 40 so, 00:39:02.903 --> 00:39:04.631 no not not quite empty nesting. 00:39:04.836 --> 00:39:06.404 We get started younger in the south. 00:39:08.165 --> 00:39:11.476 The it's interesting to see the world through their eyes though, 00:39:12.702 --> 00:39:21.084 because like my son he is 100% convinced that Alexa knows the answer to every question that he. 00:39:19.348 --> 00:39:22.328 Everything oh my gosh. 00:39:22.028 --> 00:39:28.824 A day does not go by that he doesn't ask her something and I go she's not going to know that and then she answers and makes me look like an idiot. 00:39:26.865 --> 00:39:30.122 Answers yeah. 00:39:29.822 --> 00:39:34.184 It's because you upgraded all your 900 devices to Alexa plus and now she's twice as smart. 00:39:34.154 --> 00:39:41.323 Yeah we are actually recording this on a new Oxo launch day so there's I I uh yeah I have 4 new x's on pre-order right now. 00:39:41.023 --> 00:39:42.182 Wow okay I missed all. 00:39:41.882 --> 00:39:44.363 There you go there you go. 00:39:44.063 --> 00:39:45.878 We'll do another pod on the new. 00:39:46.112 --> 00:39:54.969 It's amazing how that generation teaches us how to I mean the latest is like even on the trends have you heard of 67 that's the latest trend. 00:39:54.940 --> 00:39:56.520 No enlightened me. 00:39:55.360 --> 00:40:00.107 767 it's a song that just came out in I believe, 00:40:00.672 --> 00:40:10.334 I don't know the full story in Australia then because of Tik Tok and the virality became a thing so now every school teacher is like, 00:40:11.411 --> 00:40:21.433 kids are like 6 7 6 7 and it's the latest meme is 67 and I don't know what it means I think it's like a little bit of this and a little bit of that but. 00:40:22.065 --> 00:40:23.398 I'm going to I'm going to do a perplexity. 00:40:23.098 --> 00:40:28.770 But it's like a big thing right now 6767 and I'm like what the hell is 67. 00:40:28.705 --> 00:40:32.262 Like 1 Trend ahead of me I'm still everything is uh Demon Hunter. 00:40:31.962 --> 00:40:35.837 You know demo K-pop demon and oh my gosh. 00:40:34.257 --> 00:40:42.465 And I I actually had some PTSD on the show floor because someone used it as their walk-on music yeah and that's it's playing on an infinite Loop in my house. 00:40:38.866 --> 00:40:43.012 Oh they did oh my God. 00:40:42.958 --> 00:40:46.305 Yeah they're coming on The Tonight Show tonight or tomorrow night. 00:40:46.221 --> 00:40:49.676 Oh wow okay no I can't read. 00:40:49.376 --> 00:40:50.625 Fictional band coming on. 00:40:50.325 --> 00:40:52.608 They're gonna have the old yeah the the cartoon or the. 00:40:52.392 --> 00:40:55.180 Yeah that's awesome yeah I can't wait. 00:40:54.261 --> 00:41:07.859 Yeah so is AI like everything we're going to be thinking about and talking about for the foreseeable future is there anything else on your radar screen that you think is sort of interesting for the future of Commerce that maybe people aren't talking about enough. 00:41:08.004 --> 00:41:14.493 I would say that it is right now ai is top of my I it's not a it's not, 00:41:14.993 --> 00:41:24.763 like a moment in time this is a generational change I don't even know how vast how it is very accelerated, 00:41:25.202 --> 00:41:30.766 I frankly I couldn't tell or predict what's going to happen all I know is, 00:41:31.037 --> 00:41:43.547 change is not like coming changes here just with whatever is going on so it's how quickly can you adopt to it so I obviously culture is moving at at the speed of swipe, 00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:52.224 and it truly is with AI so AI is very much top of mind but the other contradiction to that would be, 00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:59.045 just uh how do you still keep it with humanity and with the human in the loop you know, 00:41:59.189 --> 00:42:10.648 so I think that's that's a a big challenge for the organizations to figure out too because this is where org design and you know sort of the future of Workforce also gets impacted. 00:42:10.751 --> 00:42:17.943 Yeah do you think you'll have like an AI influencer is that something you guys would would you work with an AI influencer would you create an AI influencer. 00:42:17.655 --> 00:42:30.839 We never say never but I I don't know if that's in the books right now but I think if it begged something where it was something that made sense for either a campaign or our ethos then we would. 00:42:31.590 --> 00:42:43.193 Yeah I do think something sort of implied in your your human in the loop thing is is I think super important is is this it's it's an old cliche concept but this notion of customer centricity, 00:42:43.644 --> 00:42:50.807 like 1 of the battles I suspect we're going to see play out in all of these AI engines is they're all going to want to, 00:42:51.041 --> 00:43:01.232 own the world and the customer data inside of their walled Gardens right so we you talked about hey Google got 6 words in their search and now we're getting 20 words in the prompt, 00:43:01.527 --> 00:43:11.003 the the bigger problem is the the results that that prompt gives you aren't based just on those 20 words they're also based on the complete historical memory that that, 00:43:11.274 --> 00:43:21.237 that agent has of everything and and I I strongly suspect that all of these big AI owners want to keep all of that memory. 00:43:21.123 --> 00:43:22.342 100%. 00:43:22.042 --> 00:43:28.231 In their wild Gardens in a in a sort of similar way all the retailers want to keep all the first party data. 00:43:28.099 --> 00:43:30.827 In their world Gardens. 00:43:30.527 --> 00:43:32.888 About their customers and like we didn't we didn't. 00:43:32.588 --> 00:43:35.520 And I want to keep everything in my booty Squad program. 00:43:35.220 --> 00:43:37.725 Absolutely and we we didn't poke on that but your beauty, 00:43:38.519 --> 00:43:48.974 is a really clever way of you getting taking some of those those first-party customers of your wholesale partners and having them become first-party, 00:43:49.191 --> 00:43:53.830 data for you and in that in that same way I do think 1 of the big, 00:43:54.125 --> 00:44:08.282 challenges and opportunities in this agentic future is for you to say hey we can't just be satisfied with chat gbt having all this memory about what's important to the beauty shop or or, 00:44:08.781 --> 00:44:16.652 or Microsoft or whomever that that part of your Charter is going to be to know as much about that that customer in, 00:44:17.061 --> 00:44:19.458 inside the walls of your organization. 00:44:19.158 --> 00:44:30.822 100% and that was no different than when we started talking about customer data platforms and having that golden record and knowing where your consumer is shopping and what are they doing and I do think, 00:44:31.038 --> 00:44:36.945 1 of the ways that we've been able to do it is through our loyalty program our loyalty program is 00:44:36.885 --> 00:44:47.076 is sort of the heart and soul of how we connect with the consumer and what information they trust us with and then our job is how do we then activate, 00:44:47.341 --> 00:44:49.588 you know that um. 00:44:49.288 --> 00:44:51.697 Yeah it it is interesting because obviously, 00:44:52.010 --> 00:45:01.858 wealthy programs have been trendy for a long time I would argue there was the there was kind of a saturation point when when everyone had the exact same mechanics in their program and. 00:45:01.558 --> 00:45:03.283 RN and burn yep. 00:45:03.361 --> 00:45:16.076 Yep and and you know the average consumer had 40 you know widgets in her wallet and and it was the efficacy was sort of diminished um but it does feel like, 00:45:16.317 --> 00:45:21.634 wilty is having a moment and that moment is a lot more bespoke than it used to be. 00:45:21.334 --> 00:45:30.011 100% then how do you it's about it's evolved into just hey I get rewards to 00:45:29.987 --> 00:45:41.524 experiences and where I am and what I like to be treated with how do I you know I could be in concerts and do you put money in their coinbase wallet versus, 00:45:41.651 --> 00:45:50.382 you know geolocation gives them something that they can go hunt for you know it's like how do you gamify it in many ways so, 00:45:50.484 --> 00:45:55.021 if you don't have a good loyalty strategy for the, 00:45:55.033 --> 00:46:01.691 Creator Commerce connected Commerce then it's just a earn and burn program similar to everybody else. 00:46:02.785 --> 00:46:12.820 Yeah well I think that may be a a great final point to leave it on um you've been super generous with your time I know you have a big beach party to go to to tonight. 00:46:11.702 --> 00:46:15.229 Oh yeah oh sure sure yes yes yes I do. 00:46:14.929 --> 00:46:18.264 To be well-rested for our our panel in the morning. 00:46:22.356 --> 00:46:25.403 To go shopping for some elf uh elf Beauty socks. 00:46:23.470 --> 00:46:27.500 It sucks or I do have the lip gloss ready for. 00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:31.007 I I will I will gratefully accept the the lip got, 00:46:32.147 --> 00:46:42.138 like 1 amendment I do have to add because in case Skynet is listening um I just want to point out that it was you not me that said that chat jbt lies and I, 00:46:43.586 --> 00:46:46.506 I I welcome our robotic overlords and I. 00:46:46.230 --> 00:46:49.493 It hallucinates it's hallucinates let's just say that. 00:46:49.205 --> 00:46:56.337 Hi I'm I'm entirely teasing but this has been a fascinating conversation we'll have to come back in a year because it's all going to be different. 00:46:56.103 --> 00:46:59.540 That absolutely who knows if we exist. 00:46:59.264 --> 00:47:06.961 And you mentioned your substack AI shelf um is that just AI shift.com or you go to substack and search for AI shf C agf. 00:47:06.661 --> 00:47:10.699 Yeah and or actor Chopra and you'll find it. 00:47:10.399 --> 00:47:22.975 Awesome and then uh do you publish your like are you a Avid LinkedIn writer or and we now know you're on Tik Tok so so there's that um where else do you would you like to direct people that want to follow. 00:47:22.682 --> 00:47:31.182 LinkedIn is Professional Profile substack is more learning I'm learning it and I'm in fascinated by you know sort of how people engage. 00:47:30.932 --> 00:47:32.007 Learning in the open. 00:47:32.861 --> 00:47:36.316 Yeah I will put links to all of that in the show notes, 00:47:36.737 --> 00:47:48.857 and hopefully listeners found this show super valuable and the way you could reward us if you did is you could jump on the iTunes and leave us that that 5-star review we're we're coming up on on 10 and a very. 00:47:48.557 --> 00:47:51.951 We need to we haven't had a review in like 9 years so we need some more. 00:47:52.541 --> 00:47:55.809 That's right that's right. 00:47:52.913 --> 00:47:56.212 Ever since my mom stopped dreading it's been it's been a little. 00:47:56.230 --> 00:47:58.006 Caught that she was review spamming so, 00:47:58.816 --> 00:48:03.711 way like half our reviews Echo thanks for taking time out of the busy shows and everything to join us we. 00:48:03.411 --> 00:48:06.637 Thank you thank you for having me great conversation. 00:48:05.124 --> 00:48:10.790 Yeah yeah uh and and thanks very much everyone and until next time happy Commerce.