1 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:01,083 Let me ask you a question. 2 01:00:01,625 --> 01:00:03,000 Do you know how conservation works? 3 01:00:03,583 --> 01:00:05,708 Where does conservation actually happen? 4 01:00:06,166 --> 01:00:07,166 Because the reason why I'm 5 01:00:07,166 --> 01:00:08,541 asking this is not to be a 6 01:00:08,541 --> 01:00:09,458 elitist or anything like that. 7 01:00:09,708 --> 01:00:11,666 I want to really know how you think 8 01:00:11,666 --> 01:00:13,000 conservation happens. 9 01:00:13,250 --> 01:00:14,500 Because in this episode, I'm going to 10 01:00:14,500 --> 01:00:15,625 talk to you about my 11 01:00:15,666 --> 01:00:17,333 experience with conservation. 12 01:00:17,666 --> 01:00:19,250 I am a marine biologist and 13 01:00:19,250 --> 01:00:20,541 science communicator that's 14 01:00:20,541 --> 01:00:22,916 been working in this field of marine 15 01:00:22,916 --> 01:00:23,916 science and freshwater 16 01:00:24,041 --> 01:00:26,291 science and conservation over the last 20 17 01:00:26,291 --> 01:00:27,416 years, over 20 years. 18 01:00:27,458 --> 01:00:29,583 And I've had a podcast where I talk about 19 01:00:29,583 --> 01:00:30,541 conservation projects 20 01:00:30,541 --> 01:00:31,791 for the last 10 years. 21 01:00:31,791 --> 01:00:34,041 So I have a lot of experience in knowing 22 01:00:34,041 --> 01:00:35,041 what projects have gone 23 01:00:35,041 --> 01:00:36,083 where, how it was done. 24 01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:43,916 The reason why I'm saying this is because 25 01:00:43,916 --> 01:00:46,666 I did a review of the shark whisperer, a 26 01:00:46,666 --> 01:00:49,333 documentary on Netflix that documents 27 01:00:49,333 --> 01:00:52,125 Ocean Ramsey's work with sharks, as well 28 01:00:52,125 --> 01:00:54,333 as her so-called leading conservation 29 01:00:54,333 --> 01:00:55,458 work to get shark 30 01:00:55,458 --> 01:00:57,166 fishing banned in Hawaii. 31 01:00:57,166 --> 01:01:00,375 She contributed to a project that was led 32 01:01:00,375 --> 01:01:03,625 by indigenous Hawaiians and it seemed 33 01:01:03,625 --> 01:01:05,208 like taking credit for a 34 01:01:05,208 --> 01:01:06,500 little bit more than what she did. 35 01:01:07,041 --> 01:01:08,250 I said that was wrong. 36 01:01:08,666 --> 01:01:10,208 People lashed out at me saying, "Hey, 37 01:01:10,208 --> 01:01:11,916 she's done more conservation work than 38 01:01:11,916 --> 01:01:13,791 you have in your entire life and that 39 01:01:13,791 --> 01:01:16,375 scientists have around the world and you 40 01:01:16,375 --> 01:01:17,666 should be thankful for it." 41 01:01:18,333 --> 01:01:19,666 And that's when I realized that some 42 01:01:19,666 --> 01:01:22,250 people don't really understand how 43 01:01:22,250 --> 01:01:23,541 conservation is done. 44 01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:25,750 And there are people that contribute and 45 01:01:25,750 --> 01:01:28,125 collaborate with others to make 46 01:01:28,125 --> 01:01:29,916 conservation happen and it's great. 47 01:01:29,916 --> 01:01:33,541 And this is not a video or a podcast to 48 01:01:33,541 --> 01:01:35,875 crap on influencers because they play a 49 01:01:35,875 --> 01:01:37,666 big role and they play an even bigger 50 01:01:37,666 --> 01:01:40,083 role in the future of working with 51 01:01:40,083 --> 01:01:40,916 conservationists and 52 01:01:40,916 --> 01:01:42,416 scientists to get things done. 53 01:01:43,208 --> 01:01:44,875 But there's some caveats in there and 54 01:01:44,875 --> 01:01:46,291 there are some ways that conservation is 55 01:01:46,291 --> 01:01:47,750 done that I want people to understand. 56 01:01:47,750 --> 01:01:50,833 I want this audience to understand. 57 01:01:51,083 --> 01:01:52,250 So we're going to talk about that on 58 01:01:52,250 --> 01:01:53,541 today's episode of the How 59 01:01:53,541 --> 01:01:54,500 to Protect the Ocean podcast. 60 01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:55,708 Let's start the show. 61 01:01:59,916 --> 01:02:00,458 Hey, everybody. 62 01:02:00,458 --> 01:02:01,750 Welcome back to another exciting episode 63 01:02:01,750 --> 01:02:03,125 of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. 64 01:02:03,458 --> 01:02:04,458 I'm your host, Andrew Lewin. 65 01:02:04,458 --> 01:02:05,375 This is a podcast where you find out 66 01:02:05,375 --> 01:02:07,125 what's happening with the ocean, how you 67 01:02:07,125 --> 01:02:08,541 can speak up for the ocean, what you can 68 01:02:08,541 --> 01:02:09,625 do to live for a better 69 01:02:09,625 --> 01:02:11,583 ocean by taking action. 70 01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:12,708 I'll tell you this episode. 71 01:02:12,708 --> 01:02:13,166 We're going to be talking 72 01:02:13,166 --> 01:02:14,416 about marine conservation. 73 01:02:14,958 --> 01:02:16,958 How does marine conservation work? 74 01:02:16,958 --> 01:02:19,291 How do we protect the ocean? 75 01:02:19,333 --> 01:02:20,416 This is all about how 76 01:02:20,416 --> 01:02:21,250 you can protect the ocean. 77 01:02:21,791 --> 01:02:22,958 Let's talk about how it 78 01:02:22,958 --> 01:02:24,041 actually is protected. 79 01:02:24,625 --> 01:02:25,125 That's the big thing 80 01:02:25,125 --> 01:02:25,833 we're going to talk about. 81 01:02:25,833 --> 01:02:28,250 Say before we do, if you want to better 82 01:02:28,250 --> 01:02:30,500 protect the ocean and you want to learn 83 01:02:30,500 --> 01:02:32,291 how to protect the ocean and get guided 84 01:02:32,291 --> 01:02:34,416 to protect the ocean, join our online 85 01:02:34,416 --> 01:02:36,166 community called the undertow. 86 01:02:36,583 --> 01:02:37,791 It's really easy to do so. 87 01:02:37,791 --> 01:02:38,958 You just sign up for an app. 88 01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:40,875 There's a waiting list right 89 01:02:40,875 --> 01:02:42,416 now as we prepare this app. 90 01:02:42,416 --> 01:02:43,041 It's going to be a lot 91 01:02:43,041 --> 01:02:44,291 of fun to be a part of it. 92 01:02:44,291 --> 01:02:45,583 I'm going to be a part of the community. 93 01:02:45,625 --> 01:02:48,583 I have two wonderful co founders who are 94 01:02:48,583 --> 01:02:49,541 going to be part of the committee. 95 01:02:50,041 --> 01:02:51,375 You are going to be a part of the 96 01:02:51,375 --> 01:02:52,000 community, hopefully. 97 01:02:52,250 --> 01:02:53,958 And our colleagues here on in the 98 01:02:53,958 --> 01:02:54,958 audience will be part of the community 99 01:02:54,958 --> 01:02:56,291 and we're going to be helping each other 100 01:02:56,291 --> 01:02:57,583 protect the ocean better. 101 01:02:57,583 --> 01:02:58,583 We're going to connect to the ocean. 102 01:02:58,583 --> 01:02:59,375 We're going to have events. 103 01:02:59,375 --> 01:03:00,875 We're going to have in person events with 104 01:03:00,875 --> 01:03:02,125 how virtual events we're going to talk 105 01:03:02,125 --> 01:03:04,125 about the ocean, no algorithms ocean, 106 01:03:04,125 --> 01:03:05,250 just ocean all the time. 107 01:03:05,250 --> 01:03:06,500 All you have to do is go to speak up for 108 01:03:06,500 --> 01:03:09,708 blue.com forward slash join the undertow 109 01:03:09,708 --> 01:03:11,833 that speak up for blue.com 110 01:03:11,833 --> 01:03:13,791 forward slash join the undertow. 111 01:03:13,833 --> 01:03:15,708 The link will be in the description. 112 01:03:16,250 --> 01:03:16,458 All right. 113 01:03:16,458 --> 01:03:18,375 Let's talk about how conservation works 114 01:03:18,375 --> 01:03:19,958 because I want to just let it out there. 115 01:03:20,625 --> 01:03:21,500 I was called jealous. 116 01:03:22,375 --> 01:03:23,500 I was called envious. 117 01:03:23,708 --> 01:03:26,000 I was saying, hey, somebody told me, hey, 118 01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:27,583 you haven't done anything for 119 01:03:27,583 --> 01:03:30,958 conservation like Ocean Ramsey has. 120 01:03:31,708 --> 01:03:33,208 She has done more for conservation than 121 01:03:33,208 --> 01:03:34,583 any scientists around the world. 122 01:03:34,583 --> 01:03:35,958 That's what people are claiming. 123 01:03:36,333 --> 01:03:38,708 And this is not to bash Ocean Ramsey. 124 01:03:39,333 --> 01:03:41,000 I have this is not really about her. 125 01:03:41,041 --> 01:03:43,166 This is the response of the people that I 126 01:03:43,166 --> 01:03:45,500 was some of the people that were like 127 01:03:45,500 --> 01:03:47,250 commenting on videos and 128 01:03:47,250 --> 01:03:48,666 messaging me and so forth. 129 01:03:48,666 --> 01:03:51,166 And I just said, hey, I don't know if 130 01:03:51,166 --> 01:03:54,291 people truly understand how conservation 131 01:03:54,291 --> 01:03:58,458 is done in 2025 or how it's been done in 132 01:03:58,458 --> 01:04:00,791 the past because I think there's a lot of 133 01:04:00,791 --> 01:04:04,500 people who look online and they see 134 01:04:04,500 --> 01:04:06,333 scientists and they see conservationists 135 01:04:06,333 --> 01:04:08,708 and they see influencers who are diving 136 01:04:08,708 --> 01:04:10,958 and out in the field with ocean animals. 137 01:04:11,041 --> 01:04:12,625 All the time and they're wonderful. 138 01:04:12,625 --> 01:04:13,958 They're wonderful videos. 139 01:04:13,958 --> 01:04:14,875 They're wonderful pictures. 140 01:04:15,250 --> 01:04:16,791 They tell great stories. 141 01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:18,333 It's really interesting to see they allow 142 01:04:18,333 --> 01:04:20,708 us to connect to the ocean in a ways that 143 01:04:20,708 --> 01:04:22,500 we couldn't do before the Internet and 144 01:04:22,500 --> 01:04:24,041 before social media, which is wonderful. 145 01:04:24,041 --> 01:04:27,500 It plays a huge role in storytelling for 146 01:04:27,500 --> 01:04:29,958 the ocean and bringing us in to 147 01:04:29,958 --> 01:04:32,750 conservation in a way and bring us closer 148 01:04:32,750 --> 01:04:34,708 to the ocean and it really developing 149 01:04:34,708 --> 01:04:35,541 that love for the 150 01:04:35,541 --> 01:04:37,000 ocean without social media. 151 01:04:37,166 --> 01:04:38,375 We wouldn't know about certain 152 01:04:38,375 --> 01:04:40,833 characteristics of workers or certain 153 01:04:40,833 --> 01:04:43,291 characteristics of the sharks have or the 154 01:04:43,291 --> 01:04:45,458 different species of sharks or how there 155 01:04:45,458 --> 01:04:48,083 are go sharks in the world or how there 156 01:04:48,083 --> 01:04:50,000 are cool things that turtles do, you 157 01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:51,625 know, all the just different things that 158 01:04:51,625 --> 01:04:54,083 get videoed and the fact that manatees 159 01:04:54,083 --> 01:04:56,625 can hug surfboard or something like that. 160 01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:58,583 Who knew that this was a possibility? 161 01:04:58,875 --> 01:05:01,291 We found that out through social media 162 01:05:01,291 --> 01:05:02,708 and through people sharing videos and 163 01:05:02,708 --> 01:05:04,208 sharing their experiences in the ocean 164 01:05:04,208 --> 01:05:06,250 and that is truly valuable and there is 165 01:05:06,250 --> 01:05:08,791 definitely a role of social media and 166 01:05:08,791 --> 01:05:10,416 social media influences and content 167 01:05:10,416 --> 01:05:12,791 creators as I am one that will play a 168 01:05:12,791 --> 01:05:14,333 role in conservation in 169 01:05:14,333 --> 01:05:15,500 the future and even now. 170 01:05:16,375 --> 01:05:18,458 But I think that what happens is people 171 01:05:18,458 --> 01:05:20,708 see that and they say it's all they see 172 01:05:20,708 --> 01:05:22,583 and when somebody starts to talk about 173 01:05:22,583 --> 01:05:23,333 the conservation work that 174 01:05:23,333 --> 01:05:24,500 they're doing, which is great. 175 01:05:24,541 --> 01:05:27,666 You know, that's all they know they talk 176 01:05:27,666 --> 01:05:29,291 about that conservation action and 177 01:05:29,291 --> 01:05:31,041 they're saying, yes, this person is 178 01:05:31,041 --> 01:05:32,708 actually taking part and they believe 179 01:05:32,708 --> 01:05:34,458 that person because they've trusted that 180 01:05:34,458 --> 01:05:36,041 person because they build that trust over 181 01:05:36,041 --> 01:05:38,333 time and they understand that person has 182 01:05:38,333 --> 01:05:40,833 played a significant role or a role in 183 01:05:40,833 --> 01:05:43,500 working on that conservation movement to 184 01:05:43,500 --> 01:05:44,750 have that specific 185 01:05:44,750 --> 01:05:46,208 conservation action, which is great. 186 01:05:46,250 --> 01:05:49,041 It's wonderful if they're telling the 187 01:05:49,041 --> 01:05:51,000 truth and this is where it becomes really 188 01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:52,833 complicated when it comes to influencers 189 01:05:52,833 --> 01:05:55,625 who are actually doing the work or who 190 01:05:55,625 --> 01:05:57,000 are actually trying to do the work and 191 01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:58,875 trying to conserve and whether they're 192 01:05:58,875 --> 01:06:00,458 actually doing the right work and telling 193 01:06:00,458 --> 01:06:02,041 the truth or they just trying to take 194 01:06:02,041 --> 01:06:03,875 credit, which has happened with Ocean 195 01:06:03,875 --> 01:06:06,666 Ramsey in the past with this Netflix 196 01:06:06,666 --> 01:06:08,541 documentary is reclaiming that she was 197 01:06:08,541 --> 01:06:12,666 part as she led the conservation movement 198 01:06:12,666 --> 01:06:15,958 in action to ban shark fishing in Hawaii, which is a very important thing. 199 01:06:16,250 --> 01:06:18,458 It's not the case. It was it was 200 01:06:18,458 --> 01:06:20,416 indigenous led for native for native 201 01:06:20,416 --> 01:06:23,500 Hawaiians and it was something that was 202 01:06:23,500 --> 01:06:25,583 it's known, but people aren't talking 203 01:06:25,583 --> 01:06:27,125 about because the action was already 204 01:06:27,125 --> 01:06:28,041 taken and it's great 205 01:06:28,041 --> 01:06:28,958 that it was actually taken. 206 01:06:29,458 --> 01:06:30,750 But the fact that somebody takes credit 207 01:06:30,750 --> 01:06:32,791 for that is just not it's not good. It's 208 01:06:32,791 --> 01:06:35,791 not good for for conservation. It's not 209 01:06:35,791 --> 01:06:37,416 good for marine biology. It's not good 210 01:06:37,416 --> 01:06:40,333 for a lot of things that we look at when 211 01:06:40,333 --> 01:06:41,458 we do conservation 212 01:06:41,458 --> 01:06:45,125 conservation is done not in the ocean. 213 01:06:45,916 --> 01:06:47,833 That's part of the process. I want to go 214 01:06:47,833 --> 01:06:51,541 over how conservation is done. Scientists 215 01:06:51,541 --> 01:06:56,166 go out right and they do studies and they 216 01:06:56,166 --> 01:06:59,291 depict trends that are happening in the 217 01:06:59,291 --> 01:07:01,000 ocean. Some of these trends might be 218 01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:02,875 positive. Some of these trends might be 219 01:07:02,875 --> 01:07:05,458 negative for the specific topic that 220 01:07:05,458 --> 01:07:07,500 we're looking at. So say for coral reefs, 221 01:07:08,375 --> 01:07:10,750 a scientist decides to do some work on 222 01:07:10,750 --> 01:07:12,000 coral reefs. Let's just 223 01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:13,208 make it as simple as possible. 224 01:07:13,250 --> 01:07:16,125 Are coral reefs healthy? Let's take an 225 01:07:16,125 --> 01:07:18,291 overall metric of looking at what coral 226 01:07:18,291 --> 01:07:20,041 reef health looks like. So we're looking 227 01:07:20,041 --> 01:07:22,541 at biodiverse less out like not as much 228 01:07:22,541 --> 01:07:25,208 algae that's overcoming the corals. The 229 01:07:25,208 --> 01:07:27,125 corals are fleshy. They're healthy. 230 01:07:27,666 --> 01:07:30,208 They're colorful and we see a lot of 231 01:07:30,208 --> 01:07:32,083 animals around it. So there's a big 232 01:07:32,083 --> 01:07:34,500 diversity metric that goes into it of 233 01:07:34,500 --> 01:07:36,583 this coral reef. Great. Okay. Let's just 234 01:07:36,583 --> 01:07:38,625 say that's how we look at things. Then 235 01:07:38,625 --> 01:07:39,958 scientists go out and start measuring 236 01:07:39,958 --> 01:07:41,958 these metrics over time. 237 01:07:42,833 --> 01:07:44,666 Right. And they look for differences over 238 01:07:44,666 --> 01:07:47,083 time. You know, so maybe at one point, 239 01:07:47,375 --> 01:07:49,333 say this year, there's a mass bleaching 240 01:07:49,333 --> 01:07:51,625 coral event, right? So all of a sudden, 241 01:07:51,875 --> 01:07:54,000 the corals go white. How long are the 242 01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:56,000 corals white? Do they recover? Are they 243 01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:57,541 recovering fast enough? And are they 244 01:07:57,541 --> 01:07:58,875 healthy when they are 245 01:07:58,875 --> 01:08:00,208 white when they are bleached? 246 01:08:00,875 --> 01:08:02,750 We look at that and over time we look at 247 01:08:02,750 --> 01:08:04,833 the recovery and we look at how well they 248 01:08:04,833 --> 01:08:06,791 recover. If it happens over a bunch of 249 01:08:06,791 --> 01:08:08,958 years where the recovery takes a bunch of 250 01:08:08,958 --> 01:08:10,208 years, then they're not recovering very, 251 01:08:10,208 --> 01:08:12,375 very quickly. They're recovering within 252 01:08:12,375 --> 01:08:14,083 the same summer, the same season, they're 253 01:08:14,083 --> 01:08:15,875 recovering quickly. Maybe there's hope 254 01:08:15,875 --> 01:08:17,916 for that, that habitat. So there's a lot 255 01:08:17,916 --> 01:08:19,000 of different metrics, a lot of different 256 01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:20,833 trends that we look at to make sure that 257 01:08:20,833 --> 01:08:23,583 these corals are healthy. That study gets 258 01:08:23,583 --> 01:08:26,333 published in a journal. So the scientists 259 01:08:26,333 --> 01:08:28,708 write it up. They do the math, they do 260 01:08:28,708 --> 01:08:29,208 the metrics, they compare. 261 01:08:29,250 --> 01:08:31,500 Season over season over season over 262 01:08:31,500 --> 01:08:33,875 season for a number of years. They look 263 01:08:33,875 --> 01:08:35,541 at the health. They say, you know what? 264 01:08:35,750 --> 01:08:37,958 The health is trending downward. It's a 265 01:08:37,958 --> 01:08:39,708 negative trend. We need to protect this 266 01:08:39,708 --> 01:08:41,375 habitat locally. Say it's in the Great 267 01:08:41,375 --> 01:08:43,000 Barrier Reef at a specific reef. Other 268 01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:44,625 parts of the reef are doing better than 269 01:08:44,625 --> 01:08:46,208 this part of the reef. But why is this 270 01:08:46,208 --> 01:08:48,083 part of the reef doing? So the scientists 271 01:08:48,083 --> 01:08:50,125 will make conclusion inferences on what 272 01:08:50,125 --> 01:08:51,666 needs to be studied more to determine 273 01:08:51,666 --> 01:08:54,125 what other causes are causing the slow 274 01:08:54,125 --> 01:08:57,541 recovery as opposed to other coral reef 275 01:08:57,541 --> 01:08:58,208 habitats within the same area or within the same area. 276 01:08:58,250 --> 01:09:01,625 Or near that area of what's why they're 277 01:09:01,625 --> 01:09:03,208 recovering faster than the others. This 278 01:09:03,208 --> 01:09:05,541 is all hypothetical, but you know, some 279 01:09:05,541 --> 01:09:07,500 truth to it, but all hypothetical. So 280 01:09:07,500 --> 01:09:09,083 there's studies that are done after that. 281 01:09:09,083 --> 01:09:10,166 There's studies that are joined during 282 01:09:10,166 --> 01:09:12,291 that. They write up the study, they 283 01:09:12,291 --> 01:09:14,208 publish the study so other scientists can 284 01:09:14,208 --> 01:09:15,791 see it during that time when they publish 285 01:09:15,791 --> 01:09:18,333 the study, it goes to different editors 286 01:09:18,333 --> 01:09:20,625 to review those editors review it. They 287 01:09:20,625 --> 01:09:23,333 critique it scientifically, critique it 288 01:09:23,333 --> 01:09:24,833 to make sure that the science is right 289 01:09:24,833 --> 01:09:26,500 and that they agree with the science. 290 01:09:26,500 --> 01:09:27,208 That means they agree with the statistics using the science. 291 01:09:27,250 --> 01:09:28,208 They agree with the statistics use, they 292 01:09:28,208 --> 01:09:30,166 agree with the study design. They agree 293 01:09:30,166 --> 01:09:32,041 with the results. They agree with the 294 01:09:32,041 --> 01:09:33,666 interpretation. They fully agree, but 295 01:09:33,666 --> 01:09:34,583 they have to say, you know what, this 296 01:09:34,583 --> 01:09:37,166 makes sense based on what is coming out 297 01:09:37,166 --> 01:09:40,791 with the results and so forth. If it gets 298 01:09:40,791 --> 01:09:42,500 accepted, it gets published. If it 299 01:09:42,500 --> 01:09:43,625 doesn't, it goes back for changes. 300 01:09:44,208 --> 01:09:45,750 There's questions that are asked and they 301 01:09:45,750 --> 01:09:47,166 go through an entire process and they get 302 01:09:47,166 --> 01:09:49,375 it edited again and reviewed. And then 303 01:09:49,375 --> 01:09:51,916 say it gets accepted. It goes on to a 304 01:09:51,916 --> 01:09:53,666 primary journal, which goes out to other 305 01:09:53,666 --> 01:09:55,083 scientists. They read it, especially 306 01:09:55,083 --> 01:09:56,208 those who are in coral reef science. 307 01:09:56,250 --> 01:09:59,041 They start to read it. Conservationists 308 01:09:59,041 --> 01:10:00,291 will read it. They're like, oh, nonprofit 309 01:10:00,291 --> 01:10:01,541 organizations, stuff that are really 310 01:10:01,541 --> 01:10:04,041 interested in coral reef science will be 311 01:10:04,041 --> 01:10:05,875 like, oh my gosh, this is really 312 01:10:05,875 --> 01:10:07,416 interesting. I wonder what's going on. 313 01:10:07,583 --> 01:10:09,666 Where is the problem? Then those 314 01:10:09,666 --> 01:10:12,708 organizations will look at that study and 315 01:10:12,708 --> 01:10:14,625 maybe they already know the scientists 316 01:10:14,625 --> 01:10:15,500 who are involved, the 317 01:10:15,500 --> 01:10:16,208 primary author and so forth. 318 01:10:16,250 --> 01:10:18,416 And they say, hey, can we talk to you 319 01:10:18,416 --> 01:10:19,666 about this? Like we really want to get 320 01:10:19,666 --> 01:10:21,416 this out to our constituents, our 321 01:10:21,416 --> 01:10:23,333 followers, our audience and make sure 322 01:10:23,333 --> 01:10:25,250 that they know what's going on. So they 323 01:10:25,250 --> 01:10:27,000 maybe do an interview. They post it 324 01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:30,041 online. They may send it to me. 325 01:10:30,291 --> 01:10:32,041 Like some of the sometimes people are 326 01:10:32,041 --> 01:10:33,291 getting sent to me. They have a really 327 01:10:33,291 --> 01:10:35,791 good article. I do an interview. We post 328 01:10:35,791 --> 01:10:38,583 that online. Organizations start to say, 329 01:10:38,583 --> 01:10:40,333 hey, we need to have a call to action. We 330 01:10:40,333 --> 01:10:43,250 need to protect these. And maybe if other 331 01:10:43,250 --> 01:10:44,708 cumulative effects, like there's 332 01:10:44,708 --> 01:10:45,208 development nearby or new technology, they're going to be able to do that. 333 01:10:45,250 --> 01:11:05,541 Can we move on to the the 334 01:11:05,541 --> 01:11:05,750 device? 335 01:11:05,875 --> 01:11:07,708 Everything needs to be accessible. 336 01:11:07,708 --> 01:11:16,791 An investigation to its currency. So also the is what we find is happening. 337 01:11:16,791 --> 01:11:17,791 This is what the science has found. 338 01:11:18,166 --> 01:11:19,083 And the government will be like, 339 01:11:19,083 --> 01:11:20,041 "Okay, well, this is a 340 01:11:20,041 --> 01:11:21,583 question that the people have had. 341 01:11:21,916 --> 01:11:23,166 We have to investigate it, 342 01:11:23,166 --> 01:11:24,500 so we'll get our scientists on it. 343 01:11:24,500 --> 01:11:25,500 We'll collaborate together 344 01:11:25,500 --> 01:11:27,000 and we'll find out a solution." 345 01:11:27,291 --> 01:11:28,583 Maybe it has to go to policy. 346 01:11:28,583 --> 01:11:30,083 So if it goes to the policy department, 347 01:11:30,083 --> 01:11:31,291 they're like, "What do we need to do? 348 01:11:31,291 --> 01:11:33,333 Right now, nutrients are at this level." 349 01:11:33,333 --> 01:11:35,083 Or maybe it's just the best possible way, 350 01:11:35,375 --> 01:11:37,458 like keep nutrients as low as possible. 351 01:11:37,458 --> 01:11:38,458 There's not an actual 352 01:11:38,458 --> 01:11:40,708 specific number for companies 353 01:11:40,708 --> 01:11:43,125 and organizations and industries 354 01:11:43,416 --> 01:11:44,208 who are producing 355 01:11:44,208 --> 01:11:45,625 nutrients that go into the water 356 01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:47,000 or in that area maybe. 357 01:11:47,458 --> 01:11:48,625 And so they'll engage, 358 01:11:48,958 --> 01:11:49,875 the government will engage 359 01:11:49,875 --> 01:11:51,125 with those that industry. 360 01:11:51,583 --> 01:11:52,875 The industry's come back and they say, 361 01:11:52,875 --> 01:11:53,916 "Well, we don't really want to change. 362 01:11:53,916 --> 01:11:54,625 We think everything's fine. 363 01:11:54,625 --> 01:11:54,791 It's going to be 364 01:11:54,791 --> 01:11:55,708 really expensive to change." 365 01:11:55,708 --> 01:11:56,083 And then they say, 366 01:11:56,083 --> 01:11:57,708 "Well, nonprofit organizations 367 01:11:57,708 --> 01:11:58,958 in the industry and the government 368 01:11:58,958 --> 01:12:00,125 kind of go back and forth." 369 01:12:00,125 --> 01:12:01,708 And they try to come to a compromise. 370 01:12:02,125 --> 01:12:04,041 That compromise gets put into policy. 371 01:12:04,333 --> 01:12:05,625 That policy gets put into play 372 01:12:05,625 --> 01:12:06,250 and the scientists 373 01:12:06,250 --> 01:12:07,458 will look at the trends 374 01:12:07,458 --> 01:12:08,458 as long with the government 375 01:12:08,458 --> 01:12:08,875 because governments 376 01:12:08,875 --> 01:12:09,875 have scientists as well. 377 01:12:10,208 --> 01:12:11,125 They will look at the trends 378 01:12:11,416 --> 01:12:12,375 and they will go through 379 01:12:12,375 --> 01:12:13,708 the whole process again 380 01:12:14,083 --> 01:12:15,083 and see if those 381 01:12:15,083 --> 01:12:16,875 trends actually take place. 382 01:12:17,333 --> 01:12:18,791 If that happens, the 383 01:12:18,791 --> 01:12:20,541 policy will change in law 384 01:12:20,541 --> 01:12:22,166 and this will get put into place. 385 01:12:22,625 --> 01:12:24,500 So that's how conservation is done. 386 01:12:25,125 --> 01:12:26,375 It starts off in the field. 387 01:12:26,583 --> 01:12:27,291 It starts off in the 388 01:12:27,291 --> 01:12:28,458 ocean, looking at trends. 389 01:12:28,666 --> 01:12:30,208 It goes to different, 390 01:12:30,541 --> 01:12:31,750 it goes to get published. 391 01:12:32,083 --> 01:12:33,333 It goes to different media 392 01:12:33,333 --> 01:12:34,625 and different organizations 393 01:12:35,166 --> 01:12:36,750 to get people involved 394 01:12:36,750 --> 01:12:37,541 and get people to know 395 01:12:37,541 --> 01:12:38,375 if they think it's 396 01:12:38,375 --> 01:12:39,625 necessary for people to know. 397 01:12:39,666 --> 01:12:41,250 Get that support for government. 398 01:12:41,583 --> 01:12:42,916 They put pressure on the government. 399 01:12:43,250 --> 01:12:43,958 The government has to 400 01:12:43,958 --> 01:12:45,166 look at it for the most part. 401 01:12:45,625 --> 01:12:46,791 Sometimes governments don't look at it. 402 01:12:46,791 --> 01:12:49,125 So that's an issue within itself and a 403 01:12:49,125 --> 01:12:49,958 challenge within itself. 404 01:12:50,333 --> 01:12:51,666 If they start looking at it and say, 405 01:12:51,666 --> 01:12:53,000 "Hey, yeah, actually we should do 406 01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:53,791 something about this." 407 01:12:53,791 --> 01:12:54,583 They engage in the 408 01:12:54,583 --> 01:12:56,208 industry and they go forth 409 01:12:56,208 --> 01:12:58,291 and it just gets kind of, you know, just 410 01:12:58,291 --> 01:12:59,583 it goes through a loop, 411 01:12:59,583 --> 01:13:00,500 write a feedback loop and 412 01:13:00,500 --> 01:13:01,625 it continues to go like that. 413 01:13:01,875 --> 01:13:03,125 That's how conservation works. 414 01:13:03,958 --> 01:13:04,916 Conservation, the 415 01:13:04,916 --> 01:13:06,375 policy, the laws that get made 416 01:13:06,625 --> 01:13:08,250 and the negotiations that happen do not 417 01:13:08,250 --> 01:13:09,416 happen out on a boat 418 01:13:09,500 --> 01:13:10,375 in the middle of the ocean. 419 01:13:10,750 --> 01:13:11,708 It happens in a room. 420 01:13:11,708 --> 01:13:12,750 It happens in a conference room. 421 01:13:12,750 --> 01:13:13,708 It happens in a board room. 422 01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:15,833 It happens at a computer where 423 01:13:15,833 --> 01:13:17,083 people are doing data analysis 424 01:13:17,208 --> 01:13:18,875 for years and years of 425 01:13:18,875 --> 01:13:21,750 results or of field data 426 01:13:21,750 --> 01:13:22,750 that has been collected. 427 01:13:23,208 --> 01:13:25,375 It's done in every different place. 428 01:13:25,916 --> 01:13:27,333 It's done by influencers 429 01:13:27,333 --> 01:13:28,916 who are making people aware, 430 01:13:29,666 --> 01:13:30,583 nonprofit organizations who 431 01:13:30,583 --> 01:13:31,958 are putting out the stuff, 432 01:13:32,166 --> 01:13:33,875 the information so that people can be, 433 01:13:33,875 --> 01:13:35,083 more and more people can be aware. 434 01:13:35,500 --> 01:13:36,833 Some people like by me 435 01:13:36,833 --> 01:13:38,458 who puts out to my audience, 436 01:13:38,500 --> 01:13:40,000 say, "Hey, you need to know about this. 437 01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:40,875 This is really important." 438 01:13:41,333 --> 01:13:43,375 There's so many different arms and 439 01:13:43,375 --> 01:13:45,708 aspects and branches of conservation. 440 01:13:46,250 --> 01:13:47,000 It happens in a 441 01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:47,916 number of different places. 442 01:13:47,916 --> 01:13:50,125 It doesn't just happen from one person. 443 01:13:51,500 --> 01:13:52,166 That's the key. 444 01:13:52,666 --> 01:13:53,625 It's not one person. 445 01:13:53,708 --> 01:13:54,791 It's not one organization. 446 01:13:55,250 --> 01:13:56,083 It's not one government. 447 01:13:56,458 --> 01:13:57,958 It's not one science lab. 448 01:13:58,166 --> 01:13:59,041 It's not one scientist. 449 01:13:59,875 --> 01:14:01,583 It is a team of people. 450 01:14:01,833 --> 01:14:04,041 It is a collaboration of people. 451 01:14:04,041 --> 01:14:04,958 I just talked to Bardor. 452 01:14:05,208 --> 01:14:06,958 We just published that episode last week, 453 01:14:06,958 --> 01:14:07,708 couple of episodes ago. 454 01:14:07,750 --> 01:14:08,375 Check it out. 455 01:14:08,958 --> 01:14:09,791 It's a collaboration. 456 01:14:10,708 --> 01:14:11,708 Conservation is collaboration. 457 01:14:12,541 --> 01:14:14,458 It's necessary to do conservation. 458 01:14:14,708 --> 01:14:15,500 You can't do it alone. 459 01:14:16,416 --> 01:14:19,666 So going back to the comments that I was 460 01:14:19,666 --> 01:14:21,208 getting on my video of, 461 01:14:21,458 --> 01:14:22,125 you know, of 462 01:14:22,125 --> 01:14:24,750 critiquing the shark whisperer. 463 01:14:25,166 --> 01:14:27,000 One person, one video 464 01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:29,000 doesn't make a policy. 465 01:14:29,750 --> 01:14:32,791 It is a team of people who have put the 466 01:14:32,791 --> 01:14:34,833 work in to either 467 01:14:34,833 --> 01:14:36,000 come up with the science, 468 01:14:36,291 --> 01:14:39,791 come up with the data, come up with the 469 01:14:39,791 --> 01:14:41,833 feedback from the local community and 470 01:14:41,833 --> 01:14:44,041 local organizations who are involved 471 01:14:44,041 --> 01:14:46,541 daily in this type of work. 472 01:14:47,166 --> 01:14:49,625 From to the fishing community to the 473 01:14:49,625 --> 01:14:52,250 industry that are involved in this type 474 01:14:52,250 --> 01:14:54,791 of work to the influencers and the 475 01:14:54,791 --> 01:14:56,458 content creators who are making more and 476 01:14:56,458 --> 01:14:58,000 more people aware of that work so they 477 01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:01,750 can take their sort of movement and bring 478 01:15:01,750 --> 01:15:03,250 it to the government to put more pressure 479 01:15:03,250 --> 01:15:04,250 to address the issue. 480 01:15:05,250 --> 01:15:07,000 It's a collaboration. 481 01:15:07,375 --> 01:15:09,041 It's not just one person. 482 01:15:09,958 --> 01:15:11,625 So when you hear scientists and you hear 483 01:15:11,625 --> 01:15:13,958 conservation conservation and say, hey, 484 01:15:14,166 --> 01:15:15,708 you know what, you know, when that one 485 01:15:15,708 --> 01:15:18,375 person said that they were the reason why 486 01:15:18,375 --> 01:15:20,583 this fishing band got put in place. 487 01:15:21,166 --> 01:15:22,083 That's not true 488 01:15:22,083 --> 01:15:24,458 because she played a part. 489 01:15:24,958 --> 01:15:27,958 Two million, two million followers on 490 01:15:27,958 --> 01:15:30,500 Instagram, probably more on TikTok and on 491 01:15:30,500 --> 01:15:31,458 YouTube and so forth. 492 01:15:31,458 --> 01:15:34,750 She has an army of public people who are 493 01:15:34,750 --> 01:15:36,291 interested in conserving 494 01:15:36,291 --> 01:15:37,500 sharks for whatever reason. 495 01:15:37,833 --> 01:15:38,750 It doesn't matter if it's 496 01:15:38,750 --> 01:15:39,833 what she does is right or wrong. 497 01:15:40,166 --> 01:15:42,708 She has the attention of people and she 498 01:15:42,708 --> 01:15:44,791 can mobilize those people, right? 499 01:15:44,791 --> 01:15:46,125 If they want to be mobilized, she can 500 01:15:46,125 --> 01:15:47,791 say, hey, there's this new movement going 501 01:15:47,791 --> 01:15:49,208 on or there's this movement going on. 502 01:15:49,208 --> 01:15:50,625 It's led by so and so. 503 01:15:51,083 --> 01:15:52,958 And I want you guys to check it out 504 01:15:52,958 --> 01:15:54,166 because I think it's important. 505 01:15:54,583 --> 01:15:56,208 And if you send your support by doing 506 01:15:56,208 --> 01:15:57,750 such and such thing, it would 507 01:15:57,750 --> 01:15:58,458 really help out this movement. 508 01:15:58,500 --> 01:16:00,750 And it would be it would feel good to 509 01:16:00,750 --> 01:16:02,500 protect these sharks that I work with 510 01:16:02,500 --> 01:16:04,500 each and every day, whether you agree 511 01:16:04,500 --> 01:16:07,000 with what she does or not, which I don't. 512 01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:08,166 That's what she could have done. 513 01:16:08,166 --> 01:16:09,291 And she could have come out and said, 514 01:16:09,291 --> 01:16:10,750 hey, you know what, remember that 515 01:16:10,750 --> 01:16:12,750 movement, that policy that I wanted that 516 01:16:12,750 --> 01:16:15,375 we wanted to do as a team and we want to 517 01:16:15,375 --> 01:16:16,708 get the shark fishing band like that. 518 01:16:16,958 --> 01:16:18,833 These indigenous Hawaiians have been 519 01:16:18,833 --> 01:16:20,500 trying to get banned for number of 520 01:16:20,500 --> 01:16:22,416 numerous years and the Senate finally 521 01:16:22,416 --> 01:16:24,208 listened and they finally passed it. 522 01:16:24,458 --> 01:16:25,458 You were helping that. 523 01:16:25,500 --> 01:16:27,333 I thank you. Thank you so much for 524 01:16:27,333 --> 01:16:28,208 protecting these sharks. 525 01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:30,166 We did it together. 526 01:16:30,583 --> 01:16:32,083 We did it as a team. 527 01:16:32,083 --> 01:16:33,583 Not I did a video where I 528 01:16:33,583 --> 01:16:35,208 hung on to a great white shark. 529 01:16:35,708 --> 01:16:37,083 And because of that, people saw that 530 01:16:37,083 --> 01:16:38,458 sharks are not monsters. 531 01:16:39,291 --> 01:16:40,250 So we got this shark 532 01:16:40,250 --> 01:16:43,208 fishing ban like done in Hawaii. 533 01:16:44,291 --> 01:16:45,458 That's not how you do it. 534 01:16:45,916 --> 01:16:46,916 That's the wrong thing. 535 01:16:47,833 --> 01:16:50,083 And I think people need to know that 536 01:16:50,083 --> 01:16:51,375 people need to know 537 01:16:51,375 --> 01:16:52,458 how conservation works. 538 01:16:52,500 --> 01:16:55,958 This is not to say that what influencers 539 01:16:55,958 --> 01:16:58,250 do or content creators do is useless. 540 01:16:58,875 --> 01:17:00,833 They play a very important role in the 541 01:17:00,833 --> 01:17:03,416 conservation process, but it is a process 542 01:17:03,416 --> 01:17:05,416 is made up of a number of contributors 543 01:17:05,416 --> 01:17:07,875 that help get things passed, including 544 01:17:07,875 --> 01:17:10,958 lawmakers, including lawmakers who want 545 01:17:10,958 --> 01:17:13,000 to get a pass who they say, hey, you know 546 01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:14,083 what, this is really important. 547 01:17:14,583 --> 01:17:16,041 We need to get this passed. 548 01:17:16,458 --> 01:17:18,000 And that is what I want to get across 549 01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:19,458 today in so many words. 550 01:17:19,541 --> 01:17:21,666 There's probably a lot 551 01:17:21,666 --> 01:17:22,500 more than I should have. 552 01:17:22,750 --> 01:17:23,916 But I want I wanted 553 01:17:23,916 --> 01:17:24,666 people to understand that. 554 01:17:24,666 --> 01:17:25,250 So I'd love to hear 555 01:17:25,250 --> 01:17:26,208 your thoughts on this. 556 01:17:26,958 --> 01:17:28,333 You know, after you join the undertow 557 01:17:28,333 --> 01:17:29,416 speak up for blue dot com 558 01:17:29,416 --> 01:17:30,750 forward slash join the undertow. 559 01:17:31,125 --> 01:17:32,041 I want to hear your thoughts. 560 01:17:32,041 --> 01:17:33,500 Let me know in the comments below. 561 01:17:33,875 --> 01:17:36,333 But also let me know if you if you're 562 01:17:36,333 --> 01:17:37,625 listening to this on if you're listening 563 01:17:37,625 --> 01:17:39,000 to this on YouTube and you're listening 564 01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:40,708 to this on your favorite podcast app. 565 01:17:40,708 --> 01:17:42,791 Just let me know, you know, by going to 566 01:17:42,791 --> 01:17:43,541 speak up for blue dot 567 01:17:43,541 --> 01:17:45,416 com forward slash contact. 568 01:17:45,416 --> 01:17:46,250 Send me an email. I'd love 569 01:17:46,250 --> 01:17:46,458 to hear your thoughts on this. 570 01:17:46,500 --> 01:17:48,833 I think it's really important that we 571 01:17:48,833 --> 01:17:50,458 have discussions on this or DME on 572 01:17:50,458 --> 01:17:52,458 Instagram at How to Protect the Ocean. 573 01:17:52,458 --> 01:17:54,000 I want to thank you so much for joining 574 01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:55,291 me on today's episode of the How to 575 01:17:55,291 --> 01:17:56,041 Protect the Ocean podcast. 576 01:17:56,333 --> 01:17:57,625 I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the True 577 01:17:57,625 --> 01:17:58,500 North Strong and Free. 578 01:17:58,958 --> 01:18:00,041 Have a great day. We'll talk to you next 579 01:18:00,041 --> 01:18:01,458 time and have a conversation.