Let me ask you a question.
Do you know how conservation works?
Where does conservation actually happen?
Because the reason why I'm
asking this is not to be a
elitist or anything like that.
I want to really know how you think
conservation happens.
Because in this episode, I'm going to
talk to you about my
experience with conservation.
I am a marine biologist and
science communicator that's
been working in this field of marine
science and freshwater
science and conservation over the last 20
years, over 20 years.
And I've had a podcast where I talk about
conservation projects
for the last 10 years.
So I have a lot of experience in knowing
what projects have gone
where, how it was done.
The reason why I'm saying this is because
I did a review of the shark whisperer, a
documentary on Netflix that documents
Ocean Ramsey's work with sharks, as well
as her so-called leading conservation
work to get shark
fishing banned in Hawaii.
She contributed to a project that was led
by indigenous Hawaiians and it seemed
like taking credit for a
little bit more than what she did.
I said that was wrong.
People lashed out at me saying, "Hey,
she's done more conservation work than
you have in your entire life and that
scientists have around the world and you
should be thankful for it."
And that's when I realized that some
people don't really understand how
conservation is done.
And there are people that contribute and
collaborate with others to make
conservation happen and it's great.
And this is not a video or a podcast to
crap on influencers because they play a
big role and they play an even bigger
role in the future of working with
conservationists and
scientists to get things done.
But there's some caveats in there and
there are some ways that conservation is
done that I want people to understand.
I want this audience to understand.
So we're going to talk about that on
today's episode of the How
to Protect the Ocean podcast.
Let's start the show.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back to another exciting episode
of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin.
This is a podcast where you find out
what's happening with the ocean, how you
can speak up for the ocean, what you can
do to live for a better
ocean by taking action.
I'll tell you this episode.
We're going to be talking
about marine conservation.
How does marine conservation work?
How do we protect the ocean?
This is all about how
you can protect the ocean.
Let's talk about how it
actually is protected.
That's the big thing
we're going to talk about.
Say before we do, if you want to better
protect the ocean and you want to learn
how to protect the ocean and get guided
to protect the ocean, join our online
community called the undertow.
It's really easy to do so.
You just sign up for an app.
There's a waiting list right
now as we prepare this app.
It's going to be a lot
of fun to be a part of it.
I'm going to be a part of the community.
I have two wonderful co founders who are
going to be part of the committee.
You are going to be a part of the
community, hopefully.
And our colleagues here on in the
audience will be part of the community
and we're going to be helping each other
protect the ocean better.
We're going to connect to the ocean.
We're going to have events.
We're going to have in person events with
how virtual events we're going to talk
about the ocean, no algorithms ocean,
just ocean all the time.
All you have to do is go to speak up for
blue.com forward slash join the undertow
that speak up for blue.com
forward slash join the undertow.
The link will be in the description.
All right.
Let's talk about how conservation works
because I want to just let it out there.
I was called jealous.
I was called envious.
I was saying, hey, somebody told me, hey,
you haven't done anything for
conservation like Ocean Ramsey has.
She has done more for conservation than
any scientists around the world.
That's what people are claiming.
And this is not to bash Ocean Ramsey.
I have this is not really about her.
This is the response of the people that I
was some of the people that were like
commenting on videos and
messaging me and so forth.
And I just said, hey, I don't know if
people truly understand how conservation
is done in 2025 or how it's been done in
the past because I think there's a lot of
people who look online and they see
scientists and they see conservationists
and they see influencers who are diving
and out in the field with ocean animals.
All the time and they're wonderful.
They're wonderful videos.
They're wonderful pictures.
They tell great stories.
It's really interesting to see they allow
us to connect to the ocean in a ways that
we couldn't do before the Internet and
before social media, which is wonderful.
It plays a huge role in storytelling for
the ocean and bringing us in to
conservation in a way and bring us closer
to the ocean and it really developing
that love for the
ocean without social media.
We wouldn't know about certain
characteristics of workers or certain
characteristics of the sharks have or the
different species of sharks or how there
are go sharks in the world or how there
are cool things that turtles do, you
know, all the just different things that
get videoed and the fact that manatees
can hug surfboard or something like that.
Who knew that this was a possibility?
We found that out through social media
and through people sharing videos and
sharing their experiences in the ocean
and that is truly valuable and there is
definitely a role of social media and
social media influences and content
creators as I am one that will play a
role in conservation in
the future and even now.
But I think that what happens is people
see that and they say it's all they see
and when somebody starts to talk about
the conservation work that
they're doing, which is great.
You know, that's all they know they talk
about that conservation action and
they're saying, yes, this person is
actually taking part and they believe
that person because they've trusted that
person because they build that trust over
time and they understand that person has
played a significant role or a role in
working on that conservation movement to
have that specific
conservation action, which is great.
It's wonderful if they're telling the
truth and this is where it becomes really
complicated when it comes to influencers
who are actually doing the work or who
are actually trying to do the work and
trying to conserve and whether they're
actually doing the right work and telling
the truth or they just trying to take
credit, which has happened with Ocean
Ramsey in the past with this Netflix
documentary is reclaiming that she was
part as she led the conservation movement
in action to ban shark fishing in Hawaii, which is a very important thing.
It's not the case. It was it was
indigenous led for native for native
Hawaiians and it was something that was
it's known, but people aren't talking
about because the action was already
taken and it's great
that it was actually taken.
But the fact that somebody takes credit
for that is just not it's not good. It's
not good for for conservation. It's not
good for marine biology. It's not good
for a lot of things that we look at when
we do conservation
conservation is done not in the ocean.
That's part of the process. I want to go
over how conservation is done. Scientists
go out right and they do studies and they
depict trends that are happening in the
ocean. Some of these trends might be
positive. Some of these trends might be
negative for the specific topic that
we're looking at. So say for coral reefs,
a scientist decides to do some work on
coral reefs. Let's just
make it as simple as possible.
Are coral reefs healthy? Let's take an
overall metric of looking at what coral
reef health looks like. So we're looking
at biodiverse less out like not as much
algae that's overcoming the corals. The
corals are fleshy. They're healthy.
They're colorful and we see a lot of
animals around it. So there's a big
diversity metric that goes into it of
this coral reef. Great. Okay. Let's just
say that's how we look at things. Then
scientists go out and start measuring
these metrics over time.
Right. And they look for differences over
time. You know, so maybe at one point,
say this year, there's a mass bleaching
coral event, right? So all of a sudden,
the corals go white. How long are the
corals white? Do they recover? Are they
recovering fast enough? And are they
healthy when they are
white when they are bleached?
We look at that and over time we look at
the recovery and we look at how well they
recover. If it happens over a bunch of
years where the recovery takes a bunch of
years, then they're not recovering very,
very quickly. They're recovering within
the same summer, the same season, they're
recovering quickly. Maybe there's hope
for that, that habitat. So there's a lot
of different metrics, a lot of different
trends that we look at to make sure that
these corals are healthy. That study gets
published in a journal. So the scientists
write it up. They do the math, they do
the metrics, they compare.
Season over season over season over
season for a number of years. They look
at the health. They say, you know what?
The health is trending downward. It's a
negative trend. We need to protect this
habitat locally. Say it's in the Great
Barrier Reef at a specific reef. Other
parts of the reef are doing better than
this part of the reef. But why is this
part of the reef doing? So the scientists
will make conclusion inferences on what
needs to be studied more to determine
what other causes are causing the slow
recovery as opposed to other coral reef
habitats within the same area or within the same area.
Or near that area of what's why they're
recovering faster than the others. This
is all hypothetical, but you know, some
truth to it, but all hypothetical. So
there's studies that are done after that.
There's studies that are joined during
that. They write up the study, they
publish the study so other scientists can
see it during that time when they publish
the study, it goes to different editors
to review those editors review it. They
critique it scientifically, critique it
to make sure that the science is right
and that they agree with the science.
That means they agree with the statistics using the science.
They agree with the statistics use, they
agree with the study design. They agree
with the results. They agree with the
interpretation. They fully agree, but
they have to say, you know what, this
makes sense based on what is coming out
with the results and so forth. If it gets
accepted, it gets published. If it
doesn't, it goes back for changes.
There's questions that are asked and they
go through an entire process and they get
it edited again and reviewed. And then
say it gets accepted. It goes on to a
primary journal, which goes out to other
scientists. They read it, especially
those who are in coral reef science.
They start to read it. Conservationists
will read it. They're like, oh, nonprofit
organizations, stuff that are really
interested in coral reef science will be
like, oh my gosh, this is really
interesting. I wonder what's going on.
Where is the problem? Then those
organizations will look at that study and
maybe they already know the scientists
who are involved, the
primary author and so forth.
And they say, hey, can we talk to you
about this? Like we really want to get
this out to our constituents, our
followers, our audience and make sure
that they know what's going on. So they
maybe do an interview. They post it
online. They may send it to me.
Like some of the sometimes people are
getting sent to me. They have a really
good article. I do an interview. We post
that online. Organizations start to say,
hey, we need to have a call to action. We
need to protect these. And maybe if other
cumulative effects, like there's
development nearby or new technology, they're going to be able to do that.
Can we move on to the the
device?
Everything needs to be accessible.
An investigation to its currency. So also the is what we find is happening.
This is what the science has found.
And the government will be like,
"Okay, well, this is a
question that the people have had.
We have to investigate it,
so we'll get our scientists on it.
We'll collaborate together
and we'll find out a solution."
Maybe it has to go to policy.
So if it goes to the policy department,
they're like, "What do we need to do?
Right now, nutrients are at this level."
Or maybe it's just the best possible way,
like keep nutrients as low as possible.
There's not an actual
specific number for companies
and organizations and industries
who are producing
nutrients that go into the water
or in that area maybe.
And so they'll engage,
the government will engage
with those that industry.
The industry's come back and they say,
"Well, we don't really want to change.
We think everything's fine.
It's going to be
really expensive to change."
And then they say,
"Well, nonprofit organizations
in the industry and the government
kind of go back and forth."
And they try to come to a compromise.
That compromise gets put into policy.
That policy gets put into play
and the scientists
will look at the trends
as long with the government
because governments
have scientists as well.
They will look at the trends
and they will go through
the whole process again
and see if those
trends actually take place.
If that happens, the
policy will change in law
and this will get put into place.
So that's how conservation is done.
It starts off in the field.
It starts off in the
ocean, looking at trends.
It goes to different,
it goes to get published.
It goes to different media
and different organizations
to get people involved
and get people to know
if they think it's
necessary for people to know.
Get that support for government.
They put pressure on the government.
The government has to
look at it for the most part.
Sometimes governments don't look at it.
So that's an issue within itself and a
challenge within itself.
If they start looking at it and say,
"Hey, yeah, actually we should do
something about this."
They engage in the
industry and they go forth
and it just gets kind of, you know, just
it goes through a loop,
write a feedback loop and
it continues to go like that.
That's how conservation works.
Conservation, the
policy, the laws that get made
and the negotiations that happen do not
happen out on a boat
in the middle of the ocean.
It happens in a room.
It happens in a conference room.
It happens in a board room.
It happens at a computer where
people are doing data analysis
for years and years of
results or of field data
that has been collected.
It's done in every different place.
It's done by influencers
who are making people aware,
nonprofit organizations who
are putting out the stuff,
the information so that people can be,
more and more people can be aware.
Some people like by me
who puts out to my audience,
say, "Hey, you need to know about this.
This is really important."
There's so many different arms and
aspects and branches of conservation.
It happens in a
number of different places.
It doesn't just happen from one person.
That's the key.
It's not one person.
It's not one organization.
It's not one government.
It's not one science lab.
It's not one scientist.
It is a team of people.
It is a collaboration of people.
I just talked to Bardor.
We just published that episode last week,
couple of episodes ago.
Check it out.
It's a collaboration.
Conservation is collaboration.
It's necessary to do conservation.
You can't do it alone.
So going back to the comments that I was
getting on my video of,
you know, of
critiquing the shark whisperer.
One person, one video
doesn't make a policy.
It is a team of people who have put the
work in to either
come up with the science,
come up with the data, come up with the
feedback from the local community and
local organizations who are involved
daily in this type of work.
From to the fishing community to the
industry that are involved in this type
of work to the influencers and the
content creators who are making more and
more people aware of that work so they
can take their sort of movement and bring
it to the government to put more pressure
to address the issue.
It's a collaboration.
It's not just one person.
So when you hear scientists and you hear
conservation conservation and say, hey,
you know what, you know, when that one
person said that they were the reason why
this fishing band got put in place.
That's not true
because she played a part.
Two million, two million followers on
Instagram, probably more on TikTok and on
YouTube and so forth.
She has an army of public people who are
interested in conserving
sharks for whatever reason.
It doesn't matter if it's
what she does is right or wrong.
She has the attention of people and she
can mobilize those people, right?
If they want to be mobilized, she can
say, hey, there's this new movement going
on or there's this movement going on.
It's led by so and so.
And I want you guys to check it out
because I think it's important.
And if you send your support by doing
such and such thing, it would
really help out this movement.
And it would be it would feel good to
protect these sharks that I work with
each and every day, whether you agree
with what she does or not, which I don't.
That's what she could have done.
And she could have come out and said,
hey, you know what, remember that
movement, that policy that I wanted that
we wanted to do as a team and we want to
get the shark fishing band like that.
These indigenous Hawaiians have been
trying to get banned for number of
numerous years and the Senate finally
listened and they finally passed it.
You were helping that.
I thank you. Thank you so much for
protecting these sharks.
We did it together.
We did it as a team.
Not I did a video where I
hung on to a great white shark.
And because of that, people saw that
sharks are not monsters.
So we got this shark
fishing ban like done in Hawaii.
That's not how you do it.
That's the wrong thing.
And I think people need to know that
people need to know
how conservation works.
This is not to say that what influencers
do or content creators do is useless.
They play a very important role in the
conservation process, but it is a process
is made up of a number of contributors
that help get things passed, including
lawmakers, including lawmakers who want
to get a pass who they say, hey, you know
what, this is really important.
We need to get this passed.
And that is what I want to get across
today in so many words.
There's probably a lot
more than I should have.
But I want I wanted
people to understand that.
So I'd love to hear
your thoughts on this.
You know, after you join the undertow
speak up for blue dot com
forward slash join the undertow.
I want to hear your thoughts.
Let me know in the comments below.
But also let me know if you if you're
listening to this on if you're listening
to this on YouTube and you're listening
to this on your favorite podcast app.
Just let me know, you know, by going to
speak up for blue dot
com forward slash contact.
Send me an email. I'd love
to hear your thoughts on this.
I think it's really important that we
have discussions on this or DME on
Instagram at How to Protect the Ocean.
I want to thank you so much for joining
me on today's episode of the How to
Protect the Ocean podcast.
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the True
North Strong and Free.
Have a great day. We'll talk to you next
time and have a conversation.