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Hi friends, this is John.

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Welcome back to the Regenerative

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Agriculture podcast, where we

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have all kinds of fun

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conversations related to

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improving our

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soil health and improving the

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health of the things that we're

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growing.

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And in today's world, today's

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macroeconomic climate,

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perhaps one of the most

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important conversations is how

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do we maintain and improve the

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financial health of our

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operations? Because obviously

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that is a foundational

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prerequisite upon which

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everything else rests.

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Because if we don't have the

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resources,

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To be good stewards,

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then we

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all know what happens.

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Stewardship suffers and declines

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and the

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things that we're responsible

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for managing necessarily go into

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decline.

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And this has been a macro trend

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for the last

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century or more.

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You could argue even longer that

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there have been all kinds of

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externalities in agriculture and

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that

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there has been this extractive,

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this financial extraction that's

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occurred from agriculture.

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But this has really been

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accelerated in the last 50 years

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or so

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and is continuing.

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And so it's important for us as

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stewards and as farmers to be

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thinking about how do we put

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ourself into a different

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position.

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How do we man and this is one of

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the topics I'm going to be

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speaking about next week here at

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the acres conference.

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But anyway,

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too much of a monologue.

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I'm delighted.

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I'm joined here today by Matthew

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Fitzgerald. Matthew, thank you

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for joining me.

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Tell us a little bit about your

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story, your background, the

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scope of the things that you're

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working on on your farm in

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Minnesota.

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Yeah. Hey, John, thanks for

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having me.

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I

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appreciate that opening comment

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because

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I'll tell our story and how it

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connects to financial

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stewardship and we'll see where

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it goes from there.

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I'm a second generation farmer.

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My parents, Anna Jo,

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moved to Minnesota from Iowa in

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the year 2000, so 25 years ago.

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We are a 100 % organic grain

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farm.

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I'll share a little bit about

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the origin story of our farm and

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how we as beginning farmers, I

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would consider myself a 1 .5

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generation because my folks

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started in their 40s.

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They were kind of a

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midlife crisis, wanted to become

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farmers, raise kids on a farm

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context, but weren't

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multi -generation.

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So how did they get into it?

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And really that was the organics

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niche. And our farm has really

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paralleled the growth of the

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organic industry.

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And now as a return to the farm,

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thinking about this next

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generation,

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regenerative is kind of the next

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thing that comes along, but

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I'll, I'll give some more

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background about our, our farm

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and how it got started and what

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we're up to today.

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So

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the farm was originally owned by

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a woman named Mabel Brelia and

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Mabel was an OBGYN doctor.

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And she was really interested in

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women and children's health.

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from her practice.

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And so in her retirement, she

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moved back to her family's farm

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and took over. And so in her

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70s, she was farming

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organically, like in 1996,

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as an experimental,

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creative,

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pushing the edges of science,

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thinking about the whole system

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health.

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So she had

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converted her family's farm in

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the late 90s to organic

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production.

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Met my parents at a farm

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conference.

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Sit down at lunch,

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stand next to somebody and say,

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who are you? What are you up to?

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Hit off conversation.

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Uh, and my, my dad had grown up

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on a farm in Des Moines, Iowa,

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big family, 10 kids, the farm

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was lost in the seventies.

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Parents said,

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whatever you do, don't farm,

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you know, stay away from it.

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It's a tough way to live.

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But there was sort of this

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through line of, of being

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connected to the land, wanting

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to raise a family on the land.

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And so my parents met me about

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this conference and struck up a

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conversation.

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And she was in her eighties,

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really young. to re -retire.

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And everyone in the neighborhood

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said, why don't I come by your

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farm? And she said, that sounds

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great.

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It has to stay organic.

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And nobody wanted to do that at

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that time. So she was out

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looking for somebody and met my

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parents.

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So we started,

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we moved to the farm in the year

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2000, 25 years ago,

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very humble beginnings,

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200 acres, borrowed money on a

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4440.

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and was really, really the early

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days. And so that's the origin

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story of our farm.

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And I share that because getting

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into farming is like the mafia.

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You need to know somebody or

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have a lot of money.

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It's incredibly difficult.

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And it's an issue that I'm

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passionate about, thinking about

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beginning farmers and

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repopulating the land and

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connecting communities to food.

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And you just can't do it in

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conventional commodity

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agriculture.

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And so that was the story of our

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farm, is that how could you

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support

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a family.

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And so we looked at the organic

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niche. We're considering it for

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environmental, ethical,

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religious beliefs,

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wanting to be stewards of the

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land, but then also the

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economics at that time.

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A higher price for the

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commodity,

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niche markets, direct

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relationships, all those things.

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And so our family was able to

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start

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with basically nothing.

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And over the last 25 years,

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we've grown to about a 2 ,500

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acre farm. So really parallel to

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the growth of the industry.

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Much of that growth has been

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still in the grain world.

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So we produce corn,

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soybeans. Those often end up in

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the feed grade market that end

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up in feed for chickens and

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livestock.

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Some as food grade,

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some distilling,

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some food grade soybeans for end

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users like

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tofu, soy sauce,

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wheat.

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We have some canning crops

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available to us.

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So we do peas

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and sweet corn and then edible

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beans, black beans and kidney

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beans, which are really fun.

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And then some cover crops in

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that rotation. But we're here on

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the edge of the prairie.

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So our ecosystem is really right

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where the big woods hits prairie

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pothole,

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and it gets flat and wide.

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And so both the landscape

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changes and the type of farming

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changes.

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So

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20 miles to the east of us, it's

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rolling hills,

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old dairies and silo harvesters

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and 40 acre fields.

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And 20 miles to the west is,

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you know,

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grain infrastructure that looks

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like it could be a whole

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cooperative and it's just one

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individual farm and they're

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20 ,000 acre farms.

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So we're nestled kind of in this

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geography,

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cultural change, and we've

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wiggled our way through it as

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kind of a 1 .5 generation farm

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with the organics.

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So that financial stewardship

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and really observing the

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loss of the small family farm

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and the

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mega farms emerging over the

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last 25 years.

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So we've touched on the

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financial management piece and

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the need for kind of economic

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independence in this very

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challenged world.

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You also touched on

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the difficulty, the barriers to

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entry, the difficulty of getting

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in as something that you're

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quite passionate about.

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What's the intersection of those

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two things and how are you

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thinking about them in the

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context of your operation today?

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Well, we do a couple of things

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on our farm. So we're trying to

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create opportunities for other

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farmers to pay that forward.

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I think that's like a real

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a real commitment that there was

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a gift from Mabel to our family,

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and we want to pay that forward.

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So we've

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dedicated ourselves to helping

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other farmers get into it, and

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especially folks making the

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transition to organic.

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So anytime somebody gives me a

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call and says, hey, I'm thinking

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about organics,

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the door flies open.

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We invite them in, start having

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that conversation, talking about

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strategies, transition,

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market relationships,

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My

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father, Joe, has really mentored

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dozens of folks over the years

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and we've helped get folks

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started and really try and

294
00:07:59,319 --> 00:08:00,939
continue that opportunity

295
00:08:00,939 --> 00:08:02,300
creation that was given to us

296
00:08:02,300 --> 00:08:03,240
and pay that forward.

297
00:08:05,579 --> 00:08:06,779
I think about grain farming

298
00:08:06,779 --> 00:08:08,300
specifically as a more

299
00:08:08,300 --> 00:08:09,680
sustainable way than the

300
00:08:10,199 --> 00:08:11,100
the vegetable world.

301
00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:13,659
A lot of my friends, other

302
00:08:13,659 --> 00:08:16,360
idealistic millennials that were

303
00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:17,639
out there trying to change the

304
00:08:17,639 --> 00:08:18,579
world got into vegetable

305
00:08:18,579 --> 00:08:19,379
farming.

306
00:08:19,819 --> 00:08:20,720
What I see is a pretty

307
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,060
consistent pattern of folks

308
00:08:23,170 --> 00:08:24,810
going to intern on a farm,

309
00:08:25,170 --> 00:08:26,009
learning about farming.

310
00:08:27,639 --> 00:08:29,500
Maybe they're 17, 18, 19,

311
00:08:29,959 --> 00:08:31,000
into their early 20s.

312
00:08:31,060 --> 00:08:32,340
They maybe figure out how to buy

313
00:08:32,340 --> 00:08:34,559
20 acres of land in their early

314
00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,139
20s. They hit 35.

315
00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:37,279
They've got two kids.

316
00:08:37,909 --> 00:08:38,889
their bodies start to break

317
00:08:38,889 --> 00:08:40,009
down, they realize,

318
00:08:40,350 --> 00:08:41,629
uh -oh, this isn't working out.

319
00:08:41,889 --> 00:08:42,710
The economics aren't working

320
00:08:42,710 --> 00:08:44,930
out. So at least here in the

321
00:08:44,930 --> 00:08:46,029
Midwest context, I'm always

322
00:08:46,029 --> 00:08:47,250
encouraging folks that are

323
00:08:47,250 --> 00:08:48,330
beginning farmers or first

324
00:08:48,330 --> 00:08:49,370
-generation farmers to think

325
00:08:49,370 --> 00:08:50,169
about

326
00:08:50,870 --> 00:08:53,399
pushing beyond just the quick

327
00:08:53,740 --> 00:08:55,899
natural solution of being a CSA

328
00:08:55,899 --> 00:08:56,779
vegetable farmer.

329
00:08:56,940 --> 00:08:57,740
I think that's a really

330
00:08:57,639 --> 00:08:58,819
important part of our food

331
00:08:58,819 --> 00:08:59,840
system, but it's still

332
00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:00,639
undervalued.

333
00:09:00,779 --> 00:09:02,779
And so grain farming is a huge

334
00:09:02,779 --> 00:09:03,819
opportunity for beginning

335
00:09:03,819 --> 00:09:05,700
farmers because there are

336
00:09:05,700 --> 00:09:07,059
systems in place, there's scale.

337
00:09:07,500 --> 00:09:08,360
To a certain amount, there's

338
00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:09,159
mechanization

339
00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,279
helps protect your body over

340
00:09:11,279 --> 00:09:12,079
time.

341
00:09:14,100 --> 00:09:16,220
And economics are still a little

342
00:09:16,220 --> 00:09:17,399
bit more robust and a little bit

343
00:09:17,399 --> 00:09:18,199
more stable.

344
00:09:18,319 --> 00:09:20,720
So at least start with grain and

345
00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:21,519
think about maybe adding

346
00:09:21,500 --> 00:09:22,799
livestock for diversification.

347
00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:24,059
If you can complete the whole

348
00:09:24,059 --> 00:09:27,200
cycle with vegetables or direct

349
00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,450
-to -consumer stuff, that's kind

350
00:09:29,450 --> 00:09:31,269
of the sweet spot, I think, for

351
00:09:31,269 --> 00:09:33,370
a really sustainable economic

352
00:09:33,370 --> 00:09:34,169
farm.

353
00:09:34,850 --> 00:09:37,730
So when you think about grain

354
00:09:37,730 --> 00:09:39,389
farming, of course, even organic

355
00:09:39,389 --> 00:09:41,899
farming, there is still a

356
00:09:41,899 --> 00:09:43,059
substantial barrier to entry

357
00:09:43,059 --> 00:09:44,519
relative to a fruit and

358
00:09:44,519 --> 00:09:46,340
vegetable farm, relative to the

359
00:09:46,340 --> 00:09:48,240
size that is needed and the

360
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:49,259
acreage that is needed.

361
00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,509
So how do you solve that barrier

362
00:09:51,509 --> 00:09:52,309
to entry?

363
00:09:53,980 --> 00:09:56,379
Good question. It's not easy.

364
00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:58,019
I certainly don't want to

365
00:09:59,230 --> 00:10:00,250
suggest that it's just,

366
00:10:00,899 --> 00:10:02,120
you know, go buy a tractor and

367
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:02,919
get going.

368
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:06,399
We have an opportunity because

369
00:10:06,399 --> 00:10:07,500
there's a huge generational

370
00:10:07,500 --> 00:10:08,960
shift, right? I think half of

371
00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:09,919
the land is going to change

372
00:10:09,919 --> 00:10:11,440
hands over the next decade.

373
00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,039
And so that changing of hands is

374
00:10:15,039 --> 00:10:16,279
the opportunity, I think,

375
00:10:16,419 --> 00:10:18,460
because just

376
00:10:19,509 --> 00:10:20,470
going out and being able to buy

377
00:10:20,470 --> 00:10:21,269
a farm is

378
00:10:21,830 --> 00:10:22,929
darn near impossible,

379
00:10:23,389 --> 00:10:24,409
given how expensive land is.

380
00:10:24,529 --> 00:10:26,250
In our context here, Minnesota

381
00:10:26,250 --> 00:10:28,769
land is $11 ,000 or $12 ,000 an

382
00:10:28,769 --> 00:10:29,569
acre.

383
00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:31,639
Tractors can be hundreds of

384
00:10:31,639 --> 00:10:32,460
thousands of dollars, combines.

385
00:10:32,740 --> 00:10:34,340
So I think we're

386
00:10:34,750 --> 00:10:35,649
a beginning farmer can think

387
00:10:35,649 --> 00:10:36,449
about,

388
00:10:36,460 --> 00:10:38,500
partnering where they can maybe

389
00:10:38,500 --> 00:10:39,980
offer their labor, their energy,

390
00:10:40,419 --> 00:10:42,100
their human capital over their

391
00:10:42,250 --> 00:10:43,990
financial capital in partnership

392
00:10:43,990 --> 00:10:44,789
with farmers,

393
00:10:45,269 --> 00:10:46,809
retiring folks, folks who are

394
00:10:46,809 --> 00:10:47,609
aging out.

395
00:10:50,019 --> 00:10:51,240
One of the things that we did

396
00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,580
here in Minnesota is worked on a

397
00:10:53,580 --> 00:10:54,799
beginning farmer tax credit.

398
00:10:55,299 --> 00:10:56,240
So in 2017,

399
00:10:57,379 --> 00:10:58,980
I worked with the National Young

400
00:10:58,980 --> 00:11:00,259
Farmers Association and we've

401
00:11:00,259 --> 00:11:01,500
worked on a beginning farmer tax

402
00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:03,860
credit that incentivizes the

403
00:11:03,860 --> 00:11:06,120
sale or lease of agricultural

404
00:11:06,330 --> 00:11:07,750
assets. That's land and

405
00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:08,549
equipment.

406
00:11:08,529 --> 00:11:09,850
to beginning farmers.

407
00:11:10,330 --> 00:11:12,149
So there's some kind of policy,

408
00:11:12,370 --> 00:11:14,029
financial mechanisms you can try

409
00:11:14,029 --> 00:11:14,829
and do.

410
00:11:17,940 --> 00:11:19,700
One of my marketing techniques

411
00:11:19,700 --> 00:11:23,100
is to find folks who are

412
00:11:23,100 --> 00:11:25,080
retiring and mail them boxes of

413
00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:25,879
our product.

414
00:11:25,980 --> 00:11:28,860
So as an example, we have black

415
00:11:28,860 --> 00:11:29,659
beans.

416
00:11:29,539 --> 00:11:31,299
I literally mail people cans of

417
00:11:31,299 --> 00:11:32,340
our black beans and say, hey,

418
00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:33,159
I'm in the neighborhood.

419
00:11:33,500 --> 00:11:34,319
We're a beginning farmer.

420
00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:35,299
Here's our store.

421
00:11:35,850 --> 00:11:37,929
We raise food and it's good and

422
00:11:37,929 --> 00:11:38,729
it tastes good.

423
00:11:38,570 --> 00:11:39,529
And this is what it looks like.

424
00:11:39,629 --> 00:11:40,429
And if you're interested in

425
00:11:40,269 --> 00:11:41,250
something different, I'd love to

426
00:11:41,250 --> 00:11:42,049
talk.

427
00:11:42,610 --> 00:11:43,409
Um,

428
00:11:43,529 --> 00:11:44,909
so it still requires kind of

429
00:11:44,909 --> 00:11:46,470
being scrappy and being creative

430
00:11:46,470 --> 00:11:47,850
to get your way into them.

431
00:11:49,340 --> 00:11:51,019
What you're describing is

432
00:11:52,419 --> 00:11:54,139
particularly that your, your

433
00:11:54,139 --> 00:11:55,159
last, um,

434
00:11:55,470 --> 00:11:56,830
thing that you described or

435
00:11:56,830 --> 00:11:57,990
reaching out to people, you, you

436
00:11:57,990 --> 00:11:58,950
were already established.

437
00:11:58,950 --> 00:12:01,470
You already have a foothold and,

438
00:12:03,330 --> 00:12:04,870
I think there are, there are

439
00:12:04,870 --> 00:12:07,110
many young people who want to

440
00:12:07,110 --> 00:12:07,909
get in,

441
00:12:08,879 --> 00:12:10,039
who want to get started, who've

442
00:12:10,039 --> 00:12:12,440
become quite cynical about the

443
00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:13,259
older generation.

444
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:15,659
Um, you had an exceptional

445
00:12:15,659 --> 00:12:17,740
opportunity in connecting with

446
00:12:17,740 --> 00:12:19,480
someone who cared more deeply

447
00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:20,720
about mission than they cared

448
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:21,519
about money.

449
00:12:22,230 --> 00:12:23,029
And,

450
00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:25,389
um, the reality is many,

451
00:12:26,090 --> 00:12:27,370
uh, and this is

452
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:28,919
not true for everyone, but

453
00:12:28,919 --> 00:12:30,220
there's this cynical perspective

454
00:12:30,220 --> 00:12:31,440
by the younger generation that

455
00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:32,440
the older generation is just

456
00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:34,019
going to cash out, sell out to

457
00:12:34,019 --> 00:12:35,600
investors, get as much money as

458
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:36,399
they can that they.

459
00:12:36,710 --> 00:12:37,850
They care more about the money

460
00:12:37,850 --> 00:12:38,730
than they care about the next

461
00:12:38,730 --> 00:12:39,529
generation.

462
00:12:40,039 --> 00:12:41,919
So how do we navigate that

463
00:12:41,919 --> 00:12:42,719
landscape?

464
00:12:45,039 --> 00:12:46,720
I kind of partially agree with

465
00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:47,519
the cynicism.

466
00:12:47,519 --> 00:12:48,740
You know, it's not it's not just

467
00:12:48,740 --> 00:12:49,539
made up.

468
00:12:50,059 --> 00:12:50,859
We

469
00:12:52,250 --> 00:12:53,690
operate within a capitalist

470
00:12:53,690 --> 00:12:55,789
society that drives the

471
00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:57,740
most return on investment, the

472
00:12:57,740 --> 00:12:58,539
highest amount of money

473
00:12:58,460 --> 00:12:59,879
possible. It's it's very

474
00:12:59,879 --> 00:13:00,679
tempting.

475
00:13:00,799 --> 00:13:02,200
So I can be empathetic with the

476
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:03,240
folks that make that choice

477
00:13:03,389 --> 00:13:05,289
because that

478
00:13:06,049 --> 00:13:07,909
that's very, very powerful.

479
00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:11,990
And frankly, it's going to be

480
00:13:11,990 --> 00:13:13,149
hard to beat. So I think you do

481
00:13:13,149 --> 00:13:14,669
have to just place yourself in

482
00:13:14,669 --> 00:13:15,950
spaces where people are mission

483
00:13:15,950 --> 00:13:16,750
aligned.

484
00:13:17,230 --> 00:13:19,620
The reason that meeting happened

485
00:13:19,620 --> 00:13:21,120
between my parents and Mabel was

486
00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:22,899
they were at a conference with

487
00:13:23,090 --> 00:13:24,090
like -minded folks thinking

488
00:13:24,090 --> 00:13:24,889
about organics.

489
00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:26,950
So if it's the Acres Conference,

490
00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:29,370
if it's Marble Seed, if it's a

491
00:13:29,370 --> 00:13:30,490
community gathering, around

492
00:13:30,490 --> 00:13:32,110
sustainable food, if it's going

493
00:13:32,110 --> 00:13:33,690
to your farmer's market and

494
00:13:33,690 --> 00:13:35,370
introducing yourself to the

495
00:13:35,370 --> 00:13:36,409
folks that are at the farmer's

496
00:13:36,409 --> 00:13:37,209
market,

497
00:13:38,159 --> 00:13:40,039
I think placing yourself in

498
00:13:40,039 --> 00:13:41,440
spaces where you maybe find

499
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,139
those like -minded folks is

500
00:13:43,139 --> 00:13:44,340
probably the best way to do

501
00:13:44,340 --> 00:13:45,139
that.

502
00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:47,539
The cold calling that I

503
00:13:47,539 --> 00:13:48,779
described is really difficult.

504
00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,460
That's almost a used car

505
00:13:51,460 --> 00:13:52,299
salesman gig.

506
00:13:52,919 --> 00:13:55,220
That's an uphill battle.

507
00:13:55,799 --> 00:13:56,820
I don't know if I would describe

508
00:13:56,820 --> 00:13:57,620
it that way.

509
00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:01,960
I've sent lots of cans of black

510
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,259
beans and I've only had

511
00:14:04,639 --> 00:14:05,659
one or two opportunities come

512
00:14:05,659 --> 00:14:06,459
out of that tactic.

513
00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:07,960
It's not like a

514
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,299
perfect tool.

515
00:14:12,700 --> 00:14:14,480
But yeah, your point's well

516
00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,080
taken. It is incredibly

517
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:17,480
difficult, and I think it is OK

518
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:18,279
to be

519
00:14:18,269 --> 00:14:19,409
realistic about that.

520
00:14:19,750 --> 00:14:21,269
And so creating

521
00:14:22,629 --> 00:14:24,190
opportunity, creating luck,

522
00:14:24,450 --> 00:14:25,269
creating those connections,

523
00:14:25,690 --> 00:14:27,370
you know, set yourself up in an

524
00:14:27,370 --> 00:14:28,230
environment where that could

525
00:14:28,230 --> 00:14:29,029
happen.

526
00:14:31,690 --> 00:14:33,389
Yeah, we could have we could

527
00:14:33,389 --> 00:14:35,319
have a lot more conversations

528
00:14:35,319 --> 00:14:36,159
around that topic.

529
00:14:36,159 --> 00:14:37,500
But I want to dig into

530
00:14:37,870 --> 00:14:39,049
the

531
00:14:39,370 --> 00:14:40,830
way that you set your farm up

532
00:14:40,830 --> 00:14:42,649
for financial success, both

533
00:14:42,649 --> 00:14:44,190
historically and now.

534
00:14:44,330 --> 00:14:46,470
I think a critical part of this

535
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:47,799
story

536
00:14:48,319 --> 00:14:49,399
particularly in today's

537
00:14:49,399 --> 00:14:50,279
environment, although I would

538
00:14:50,279 --> 00:14:51,220
argue it's been true for the

539
00:14:51,220 --> 00:14:52,100
last couple of decades,

540
00:14:52,970 --> 00:14:54,909
is the need to decommoditize

541
00:14:54,909 --> 00:14:58,269
yourself by any one of dozens of

542
00:14:58,269 --> 00:14:59,450
possible different mechanisms,

543
00:14:59,549 --> 00:15:00,590
which I think you have done.

544
00:15:01,740 --> 00:15:02,759
So let's

545
00:15:03,129 --> 00:15:04,710
talk a bit about your

546
00:15:05,279 --> 00:15:06,259
thought process.

547
00:15:06,539 --> 00:15:07,840
How do you think about your

548
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,519
farm's economic viability and

549
00:15:10,519 --> 00:15:11,319
sustainability?

550
00:15:11,319 --> 00:15:12,539
You've also grown.

551
00:15:12,639 --> 00:15:13,840
You've grown 10x over the last

552
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:14,639
couple of decades.

553
00:15:14,580 --> 00:15:15,580
How were you able to accomplish

554
00:15:15,580 --> 00:15:16,379
that?

555
00:15:22,569 --> 00:15:24,470
There's probably two or three

556
00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:25,269
key components.

557
00:15:25,570 --> 00:15:27,690
I'd say one is the partnerships

558
00:15:27,690 --> 00:15:28,490
in your team.

559
00:15:28,929 --> 00:15:29,870
The second is that

560
00:15:29,870 --> 00:15:30,909
decommodification.

561
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:36,340
Why don't we tackle those first

562
00:15:36,340 --> 00:15:37,159
two things, and then I'll come

563
00:15:37,159 --> 00:15:38,279
back to the third thing I'm

564
00:15:38,279 --> 00:15:39,079
thinking about.

565
00:15:38,820 --> 00:15:39,840
But the first thing is a

566
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:40,659
partnership and team.

567
00:15:41,220 --> 00:15:42,519
And both, it's like your

568
00:15:42,519 --> 00:15:43,319
internal team.

569
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,860
So that scale requires having

570
00:15:46,110 --> 00:15:47,429
folks who are on the farm every

571
00:15:47,429 --> 00:15:48,590
day who are bought in, who

572
00:15:48,590 --> 00:15:49,950
believe in that mission, who are

573
00:15:49,950 --> 00:15:51,269
willing to work, who are

574
00:15:51,269 --> 00:15:52,210
bringing their whole selves.

575
00:15:54,590 --> 00:15:55,730
And so we have a really, really

576
00:15:55,730 --> 00:15:56,730
strong team on the farm.

577
00:15:56,970 --> 00:15:58,230
I farm with my father, Joe.

578
00:15:58,309 --> 00:15:59,450
We have one or two full -time

579
00:15:59,450 --> 00:16:00,549
folks. We have some retired

580
00:16:00,549 --> 00:16:02,690
farmers who help us out who are

581
00:16:02,690 --> 00:16:03,789
excited about the organic

582
00:16:04,159 --> 00:16:05,639
thing. It reminds them of how

583
00:16:05,639 --> 00:16:06,439
they grew up.

584
00:16:08,659 --> 00:16:10,960
And when we meet, we talk about

585
00:16:11,429 --> 00:16:12,629
why we do what we do,

586
00:16:13,850 --> 00:16:15,330
our care of stewardship of

587
00:16:15,700 --> 00:16:16,500
the land.

588
00:16:16,730 --> 00:16:19,149
our commitment to proving that

589
00:16:19,149 --> 00:16:20,690
sustainable agriculture is

590
00:16:20,690 --> 00:16:21,490
competitive.

591
00:16:21,669 --> 00:16:23,629
We play the underdog card a

592
00:16:23,629 --> 00:16:25,909
little bit. We motivate everyone

593
00:16:25,909 --> 00:16:26,909
around that,

594
00:16:27,370 --> 00:16:28,350
proving that we can do it.

595
00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:32,930
And then it's the other partners

596
00:16:32,930 --> 00:16:34,809
that we have. So it's financial

597
00:16:34,809 --> 00:16:35,609
partners.

598
00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:37,950
We bank with a group called MAD

599
00:16:37,950 --> 00:16:38,750
Agriculture,

600
00:16:38,889 --> 00:16:40,009
which is an organization that's

601
00:16:40,009 --> 00:16:41,309
committed to organics and

602
00:16:41,309 --> 00:16:42,149
regenerative agriculture.

603
00:16:42,389 --> 00:16:44,309
So they share in that vision and

604
00:16:44,309 --> 00:16:45,169
mission. So some of their

605
00:16:45,169 --> 00:16:46,269
financial tools are more

606
00:16:47,830 --> 00:16:49,789
built and designed for organic

607
00:16:49,789 --> 00:16:50,669
and regenerative farms, as

608
00:16:50,669 --> 00:16:51,789
opposed to just a conventional

609
00:16:51,789 --> 00:16:53,899
commercial agricultural lender

610
00:16:53,899 --> 00:16:55,539
that maybe doesn't have the

611
00:16:55,539 --> 00:16:56,680
context, doesn't understand the

612
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:57,480
cash flows.

613
00:16:58,580 --> 00:17:01,299
It's having peer

614
00:17:01,899 --> 00:17:02,699
farmers.

615
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,059
So on my phone are the speed

616
00:17:05,059 --> 00:17:06,480
dial numbers of farmers who are

617
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,460
like me that I can talk to and

618
00:17:08,460 --> 00:17:09,579
work through problems,

619
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:10,480
questions.

620
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:12,279
I'd

621
00:17:13,099 --> 00:17:14,119
like to say having a good

622
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:15,660
agronomist, but that's really

623
00:17:15,660 --> 00:17:16,460
difficult.

624
00:17:16,420 --> 00:17:17,420
So I'm excited to talk about it.

625
00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:19,539
Let me translate that.

626
00:17:32,210 --> 00:17:33,509
There's a myth that a farmer has

627
00:17:33,509 --> 00:17:34,309
to be everything.

628
00:17:34,670 --> 00:17:36,069
And we know that that's not true

629
00:17:36,069 --> 00:17:37,150
with the plants that we raise,

630
00:17:37,250 --> 00:17:39,230
that the crops we're raising are

631
00:17:39,230 --> 00:17:40,509
whole systems. And we have to

632
00:17:40,509 --> 00:17:41,430
treat ourselves and our

633
00:17:41,430 --> 00:17:42,569
businesses as whole systems.

634
00:17:42,990 --> 00:17:44,269
And we have to bring in all the

635
00:17:44,269 --> 00:17:45,450
right elements and have them

636
00:17:45,450 --> 00:17:46,809
complement and interact with

637
00:17:46,809 --> 00:17:47,730
each other. So that's how I

638
00:17:47,730 --> 00:17:48,809
think about the partnership that

639
00:17:48,809 --> 00:17:49,609
allows that

640
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,140
growth, that financial

641
00:17:52,140 --> 00:17:53,640
stability. Because we have

642
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,599
hiccups, we have droughts, we

643
00:17:55,599 --> 00:17:56,920
have crop failures, we have

644
00:17:57,450 --> 00:17:59,069
grain buyers that,

645
00:17:59,500 --> 00:18:00,299
you know,

646
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:01,519
go broke.

647
00:18:02,180 --> 00:18:04,319
We are not without problems,

648
00:18:04,460 --> 00:18:05,259
challenges,

649
00:18:05,180 --> 00:18:06,819
and things going sideways.

650
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:09,559
I think one of the things that

651
00:18:09,559 --> 00:18:11,220
you said that stood

652
00:18:12,180 --> 00:18:14,619
out to me was your discussion of

653
00:18:14,619 --> 00:18:16,059
the team of people that you have

654
00:18:16,059 --> 00:18:16,859
around you.

655
00:18:17,410 --> 00:18:18,210
It's

656
00:18:18,339 --> 00:18:19,839
one of the things that I see as

657
00:18:19,839 --> 00:18:21,480
being so foundational.

658
00:18:21,859 --> 00:18:23,480
Many farms have this to varying

659
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:24,279
degrees,

660
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:25,039
but

661
00:18:27,079 --> 00:18:27,879
in

662
00:18:28,559 --> 00:18:29,900
in understanding plant

663
00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:30,880
communities and microbial

664
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:32,359
communities we're developing

665
00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:33,759
this emerging understanding of

666
00:18:33,759 --> 00:18:35,619
quorum sensing and how how the

667
00:18:35,619 --> 00:18:37,799
entire system changes the

668
00:18:38,430 --> 00:18:40,130
behavior of the entire system

669
00:18:40,130 --> 00:18:41,930
changes when you have enough

670
00:18:41,930 --> 00:18:44,450
diversity of perspectives to

671
00:18:44,450 --> 00:18:46,549
establish quorum sensing and

672
00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:47,759
it's kind of the same way in

673
00:18:47,759 --> 00:18:49,299
human organizations or human

674
00:18:49,299 --> 00:18:50,599
communities when you have enough

675
00:18:50,599 --> 00:18:51,900
diversity of perspectives like

676
00:18:51,900 --> 00:18:53,990
you need enough different points

677
00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:55,950
of view if you only have

678
00:18:56,599 --> 00:18:58,420
five or ten people and they all

679
00:18:58,420 --> 00:18:59,539
share the identical point of

680
00:18:59,539 --> 00:19:02,480
view, then you only have a much

681
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:03,480
more limited perspective.

682
00:19:04,170 --> 00:19:05,670
You have much less resilience.

683
00:19:07,049 --> 00:19:07,849
Yeah.

684
00:19:08,029 --> 00:19:08,829
It's

685
00:19:09,390 --> 00:19:10,190
hard to do it too.

686
00:19:10,490 --> 00:19:12,950
I think that it's not an easy

687
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:13,750
thing.

688
00:19:15,980 --> 00:19:17,559
And it's long, slow work, just

689
00:19:17,559 --> 00:19:18,940
like stewardship or soil health.

690
00:19:19,099 --> 00:19:21,579
It's long, slow work to build

691
00:19:21,579 --> 00:19:22,859
that. And so I absolutely

692
00:19:22,859 --> 00:19:24,220
personally benefit from the work

693
00:19:24,220 --> 00:19:26,000
that my parents have done before

694
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:27,799
me. And I feel like the work I'm

695
00:19:27,799 --> 00:19:28,839
doing today is for the next

696
00:19:28,839 --> 00:19:30,740
generation or for the

697
00:19:31,089 --> 00:19:32,269
next farmer. And if you just see

698
00:19:32,269 --> 00:19:33,430
yourself as part of this larger

699
00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:34,230
arc,

700
00:19:34,150 --> 00:19:35,029
this larger ecosystem,

701
00:19:36,259 --> 00:19:37,660
it brings joy to the work, too,

702
00:19:37,740 --> 00:19:38,539
frankly.

703
00:19:39,109 --> 00:19:40,529
Sometimes, this is just hard.

704
00:19:40,829 --> 00:19:41,629
There's no way around it.

705
00:19:41,670 --> 00:19:42,470
It's just hard.

706
00:19:42,170 --> 00:19:42,970
It's stressful.

707
00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:46,680
For me, at least, it's the

708
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:47,799
human element.

709
00:19:47,819 --> 00:19:48,920
The community element is really

710
00:19:49,130 --> 00:19:50,309
grounding

711
00:19:51,329 --> 00:19:52,369
and life -giving.

712
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:54,159
Yeah.

713
00:19:54,180 --> 00:19:54,980
I

714
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:56,200
want to not lose sight of the

715
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:57,180
third thing that you had in the

716
00:19:57,180 --> 00:19:57,980
back of your mind.

717
00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:58,480
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

718
00:19:58,619 --> 00:19:59,419
So,

719
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,240
I talked about partnership

720
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:03,920
decommodification really

721
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:04,720
briefly.

722
00:20:04,519 --> 00:20:06,660
So, I would say we're still

723
00:20:06,660 --> 00:20:07,460
probably

724
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,539
60 to 70 % of our crops are what

725
00:20:10,539 --> 00:20:11,759
you might consider an organic

726
00:20:11,759 --> 00:20:12,559
commodity.

727
00:20:12,519 --> 00:20:13,319
You know, they go to a broker

728
00:20:13,319 --> 00:20:14,880
that we don't know personally

729
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:15,680
that gets

730
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,460
shipped on a rail car to the

731
00:20:17,460 --> 00:20:18,599
East Coast or West Coast and

732
00:20:18,599 --> 00:20:19,720
ends up...

733
00:20:20,029 --> 00:20:20,829
We're slowly...

734
00:20:20,789 --> 00:20:21,789
There are degrees of

735
00:20:21,789 --> 00:20:23,109
decommoditization, obviously,

736
00:20:23,369 --> 00:20:24,609
but I would argue that the fact

737
00:20:24,609 --> 00:20:25,730
that you are growing a crop

738
00:20:25,730 --> 00:20:26,769
that's organically certified

739
00:20:26,769 --> 00:20:28,150
already to some degree has

740
00:20:28,150 --> 00:20:29,869
removed you from the mainstream

741
00:20:29,869 --> 00:20:30,970
commodity marketplace.

742
00:20:31,579 --> 00:20:32,759
Yeah. Yeah, I would say so.

743
00:20:32,980 --> 00:20:34,539
Certainly we're...

744
00:20:34,539 --> 00:20:35,380
Our corn

745
00:20:35,950 --> 00:20:37,369
is worth twice as much as a...

746
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:39,299
kernel corn sold on the Chicago

747
00:20:39,299 --> 00:20:40,099
border trade.

748
00:20:40,220 --> 00:20:41,380
And it has a lot more

749
00:20:42,589 --> 00:20:44,809
nutritional value and love and

750
00:20:44,809 --> 00:20:45,809
effort put into it.

751
00:20:45,890 --> 00:20:46,990
So I think that's a fair price.

752
00:20:48,049 --> 00:20:49,369
But yeah,

753
00:20:50,789 --> 00:20:52,269
the third component,

754
00:20:52,690 --> 00:20:53,710
I'd say,

755
00:20:54,289 --> 00:20:56,230
for like, how do you manage the

756
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:57,410
scale? Or how do you

757
00:20:57,980 --> 00:20:58,980
de -risk things?

758
00:20:59,140 --> 00:21:00,559
Is this

759
00:21:01,539 --> 00:21:04,819
concept of doing the right thing

760
00:21:04,819 --> 00:21:07,309
at the right time and in the

761
00:21:07,309 --> 00:21:08,109
right way.

762
00:21:08,710 --> 00:21:09,990
And what I want to talk about

763
00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:11,920
here a project that I've been

764
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:12,720
working on for the last three

765
00:21:12,599 --> 00:21:13,420
years called Farm Flow.

766
00:21:14,140 --> 00:21:14,940
And I think,

767
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:16,940
John, you'll share this insight,

768
00:21:17,079 --> 00:21:19,119
which is like alternative

769
00:21:19,529 --> 00:21:20,910
systems require intensive

770
00:21:20,910 --> 00:21:22,890
management. It's not a passive

771
00:21:22,890 --> 00:21:23,690
endeavor.

772
00:21:23,329 --> 00:21:24,349
And I think that's often what

773
00:21:24,349 --> 00:21:25,529
people think organic

774
00:21:25,970 --> 00:21:27,890
or regenerative or permaculture

775
00:21:27,890 --> 00:21:28,829
or something. It's sort of like,

776
00:21:28,930 --> 00:21:29,730
well, you just let

777
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,200
nature do its thing and it's

778
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,140
going to work its way out.

779
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:34,440
And it's not that at all.

780
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:36,140
nature is absolutely doing its

781
00:21:36,140 --> 00:21:38,240
thing, but you're an active part

782
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:39,039
of it.

783
00:21:40,279 --> 00:21:41,539
Actually, I'd like to touch on

784
00:21:41,539 --> 00:21:43,180
that in just just a moment for

785
00:21:43,180 --> 00:21:44,900
just from a very hot, extremely

786
00:21:44,900 --> 00:21:46,700
high level philosophical or

787
00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:47,640
principles perspective.

788
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:50,440
As

789
00:21:51,559 --> 00:21:53,220
I've been learning more about

790
00:21:53,220 --> 00:21:54,599
quorum sensing and how

791
00:21:54,599 --> 00:21:55,539
ecosystems function,

792
00:21:56,549 --> 00:21:58,640
I think there is an it's

793
00:21:58,640 --> 00:21:59,759
possible to

794
00:22:00,549 --> 00:22:02,470
develop an ecosystem and develop

795
00:22:02,470 --> 00:22:04,569
a landscape where nature just

796
00:22:04,569 --> 00:22:05,369
does its thing.

797
00:22:05,819 --> 00:22:08,140
And you there there is much less

798
00:22:08,140 --> 00:22:09,039
management involved.

799
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:09,919
I think

800
00:22:09,990 --> 00:22:11,809
One of the early inspirations of

801
00:22:11,809 --> 00:22:13,759
this outside of the ranching and

802
00:22:13,759 --> 00:22:15,480
grazing world was Masanobu

803
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:16,880
Fukuoka and his one straw

804
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,319
revolution in natural farming

805
00:22:18,319 --> 00:22:19,420
and some of the work that he was

806
00:22:19,420 --> 00:22:20,220
doing.

807
00:22:20,539 --> 00:22:21,640
But it's becoming increasingly

808
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,380
clear to me as I understand

809
00:22:23,789 --> 00:22:26,170
and look at different examples

810
00:22:26,170 --> 00:22:27,890
of this, that in order for that

811
00:22:27,890 --> 00:22:29,150
principle to

812
00:22:30,069 --> 00:22:31,450
even possibly hold true

813
00:22:32,299 --> 00:22:34,400
requires an abundance of

814
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:35,660
different species and requires

815
00:22:35,660 --> 00:22:36,740
an abundance of diversity.

816
00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:38,319
That doesn't happen in organic

817
00:22:38,319 --> 00:22:39,319
grain cropping system.

818
00:22:39,579 --> 00:22:40,640
It doesn't happen in most

819
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:41,460
farming systems.

820
00:22:42,750 --> 00:22:44,930
So I think that principle can be

821
00:22:44,930 --> 00:22:47,450
true, but isn't true in most

822
00:22:48,339 --> 00:22:50,380
grain cropping environments, or

823
00:22:50,380 --> 00:22:51,180
even all of them.

824
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:52,480
Yeah. Yeah.

825
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:54,579
And there's this transition

826
00:22:54,579 --> 00:22:55,519
period from what you're

827
00:22:55,519 --> 00:22:56,319
describing,

828
00:22:56,319 --> 00:22:58,119
this quorum sensing that like

829
00:22:58,309 --> 00:22:59,769
requires active participation,

830
00:22:59,930 --> 00:23:01,329
active management, active.

831
00:23:02,799 --> 00:23:03,599
Yeah.

832
00:23:03,579 --> 00:23:05,119
So management entails

833
00:23:05,569 --> 00:23:06,369
absolutely.

834
00:23:06,269 --> 00:23:08,730
Most, most grain cropping to do

835
00:23:08,730 --> 00:23:09,589
it really well,

836
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:11,400
to do regenerative management,

837
00:23:11,500 --> 00:23:12,619
organic management really well

838
00:23:12,619 --> 00:23:14,079
requires much more knowledge.

839
00:23:14,380 --> 00:23:15,200
It's much more knowledge

840
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:16,140
intensive and much more

841
00:23:16,140 --> 00:23:16,940
management intensive.

842
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:18,119
You've, you've taken away all

843
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:18,919
the easy buttons.

844
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:21,159
Yep.

845
00:23:21,609 --> 00:23:22,990
So three

846
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:24,519
and a half years ago I had a

847
00:23:24,519 --> 00:23:25,640
friend who's a data scientist

848
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:26,440
and I said, Hey,

849
00:23:27,019 --> 00:23:27,819
I have a bunch of information

850
00:23:27,819 --> 00:23:29,480
about my farm. And I'd like to

851
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:30,440
think about the question,

852
00:23:31,380 --> 00:23:32,299
This is a natural farmer

853
00:23:32,299 --> 00:23:33,099
question.

854
00:23:33,019 --> 00:23:34,259
How could we raise more yields?

855
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:35,539
How could we raise a bigger

856
00:23:35,539 --> 00:23:36,339
crop?

857
00:23:36,940 --> 00:23:38,440
And what could we do?

858
00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:39,599
How could we figure that out?

859
00:23:40,500 --> 00:23:41,720
And so he was willing to help me

860
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:42,519
on this project.

861
00:23:42,559 --> 00:23:44,079
And so we put together a data

862
00:23:44,079 --> 00:23:44,879
set.

863
00:23:44,849 --> 00:23:46,130
And this isn't a university

864
00:23:46,130 --> 00:23:47,819
-level research with randomized

865
00:23:47,819 --> 00:23:50,119
trials. It's just our own multi

866
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:50,919
-year,

867
00:23:51,230 --> 00:23:52,029
large -scale farm.

868
00:23:52,109 --> 00:23:52,909
And we looked at

869
00:23:53,529 --> 00:23:54,750
planting date, variety,

870
00:23:55,089 --> 00:23:55,889
crop fertility,

871
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:57,349
soil suitability,

872
00:23:57,670 --> 00:23:59,049
a whole bunch of different

873
00:23:59,049 --> 00:24:00,549
factors on our farm, including

874
00:24:00,549 --> 00:24:02,289
we looked at the number of

875
00:24:02,289 --> 00:24:03,089
passes.

876
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:04,180
So the number of times you were

877
00:24:04,180 --> 00:24:05,119
in a field doing some kind of

878
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:06,759
operation or scouting or

879
00:24:06,759 --> 00:24:08,299
intervention or cover crop or

880
00:24:08,299 --> 00:24:09,559
whatever it might be, and the

881
00:24:09,559 --> 00:24:10,359
frequency.

882
00:24:10,460 --> 00:24:13,150
So how often were those passes

883
00:24:13,150 --> 00:24:13,950
occurring?

884
00:24:13,849 --> 00:24:15,089
We ran this multivariable

885
00:24:15,089 --> 00:24:16,910
regression, which basically

886
00:24:16,910 --> 00:24:18,450
helps us understand like which

887
00:24:18,450 --> 00:24:19,529
of these variables has the

888
00:24:19,529 --> 00:24:20,549
largest impact on that

889
00:24:21,309 --> 00:24:22,109
yield.

890
00:24:22,410 --> 00:24:23,670
And when we ran that regression,

891
00:24:23,950 --> 00:24:25,869
the strongest variable was the

892
00:24:25,869 --> 00:24:26,710
frequency of passes.

893
00:24:27,430 --> 00:24:28,750
So if we were in a field every

894
00:24:29,029 --> 00:24:31,150
four days versus every seven

895
00:24:31,150 --> 00:24:32,589
days, there was a five bushel

896
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:34,640
increase in corn yield.

897
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,430
So the insight was,

898
00:24:39,039 --> 00:24:40,579
the more often you're in your

899
00:24:40,579 --> 00:24:41,660
field, the better your crops.

900
00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:43,599
And you're going to go, yeah,

901
00:24:43,819 --> 00:24:44,619
duh.

902
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:45,940
You talk to any good gardener

903
00:24:45,940 --> 00:24:46,779
and they say, yeah, if you weed

904
00:24:46,779 --> 00:24:47,579
your garden,

905
00:24:47,839 --> 00:24:48,960
the more often you're weeding,

906
00:24:49,039 --> 00:24:49,839
the better your tomatoes.

907
00:24:50,559 --> 00:24:52,680
But that insight really made

908
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,180
clear to us the

909
00:24:55,619 --> 00:24:58,180
active intentional management of

910
00:24:58,180 --> 00:24:58,980
our farms

911
00:24:59,130 --> 00:25:00,109
drove outcrops.

912
00:25:00,250 --> 00:25:01,549
that we wanted, whether it was

913
00:25:01,549 --> 00:25:02,470
weed control, whether it was

914
00:25:02,470 --> 00:25:03,769
yield, whether it was like the

915
00:25:03,769 --> 00:25:04,730
success of a cover crop,

916
00:25:04,829 --> 00:25:05,629
whatever it was.

917
00:25:06,299 --> 00:25:08,660
And despite being good farmers

918
00:25:08,660 --> 00:25:10,039
and having 25 years of

919
00:25:10,039 --> 00:25:11,099
experience, we weren't always

920
00:25:11,099 --> 00:25:11,920
doing that ourselves.

921
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:13,579
We kind of knew this insight.

922
00:25:14,549 --> 00:25:15,670
The regression proved something

923
00:25:15,670 --> 00:25:16,529
we already intuitively

924
00:25:16,529 --> 00:25:17,329
understood,

925
00:25:18,109 --> 00:25:18,909
but we had a gap.

926
00:25:20,329 --> 00:25:22,230
And so we came up with a

927
00:25:22,230 --> 00:25:23,210
solution for that gap,

928
00:25:23,549 --> 00:25:25,529
which is the farm flow concept.

929
00:25:25,630 --> 00:25:26,650
I can share more about that.

930
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:28,099
Yeah,

931
00:25:29,140 --> 00:25:30,640
I have a

932
00:25:31,079 --> 00:25:32,359
couple of flags that ran up the

933
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:33,220
poll for me here.

934
00:25:34,369 --> 00:25:37,269
So one of them is this...

935
00:25:37,619 --> 00:25:38,440
When we look at

936
00:25:39,130 --> 00:25:41,029
plant nutrition management from

937
00:25:41,029 --> 00:25:42,289
a physiological development

938
00:25:42,289 --> 00:25:44,109
perspective and

939
00:25:44,750 --> 00:25:46,190
the phenological growth stages,

940
00:25:47,579 --> 00:25:48,379
it's become

941
00:25:48,890 --> 00:25:52,309
extremely clear that there are

942
00:25:52,309 --> 00:25:54,509
windows of time where

943
00:25:54,890 --> 00:25:55,690
we can do this.

944
00:25:55,089 --> 00:25:57,190
Uh, if you get on the necessary

945
00:25:57,190 --> 00:25:59,109
application, let's say I'm just

946
00:25:59,109 --> 00:26:00,869
making things up here, but let's

947
00:26:00,869 --> 00:26:01,950
say you get on a critical,

948
00:26:02,420 --> 00:26:04,799
um, side dress application on

949
00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:06,779
corn at V5. And if you miss

950
00:26:06,779 --> 00:26:08,559
that, if you have like a three

951
00:26:08,559 --> 00:26:09,880
to five day window, and if you

952
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,220
miss that window and you're a

953
00:26:11,220 --> 00:26:12,019
week late,

954
00:26:12,150 --> 00:26:14,769
then your yield response is down

955
00:26:14,769 --> 00:26:15,589
disproportionately.

956
00:26:15,589 --> 00:26:17,210
Like you can, that can cost you

957
00:26:17,210 --> 00:26:19,349
10 bushels in yield and there

958
00:26:19,349 --> 00:26:20,710
are all these various windows.

959
00:26:20,809 --> 00:26:22,630
So on one hand, when you talk

960
00:26:22,630 --> 00:26:23,430
about,

961
00:26:23,650 --> 00:26:25,740
I understand the, the critical

962
00:26:25,740 --> 00:26:26,539
need.

963
00:26:26,990 --> 00:26:28,869
to get certain management

964
00:26:28,869 --> 00:26:31,569
activities done within very well

965
00:26:31,569 --> 00:26:32,369
-defined windows.

966
00:26:32,410 --> 00:26:33,470
I understand how important that

967
00:26:33,470 --> 00:26:34,269
is.

968
00:26:34,410 --> 00:26:35,549
But that's not exactly what you

969
00:26:35,549 --> 00:26:37,829
said. You said the

970
00:26:38,140 --> 00:26:40,910
frequency of and the number of

971
00:26:40,910 --> 00:26:42,009
times that you're in the field.

972
00:26:42,369 --> 00:26:43,169
And so

973
00:26:43,460 --> 00:26:46,029
if you take that all the way to

974
00:26:46,029 --> 00:26:47,269
the extreme, you could say,

975
00:26:47,369 --> 00:26:48,769
well, if you're in the field

976
00:26:49,009 --> 00:26:51,230
every three days then for the

977
00:26:51,230 --> 00:26:52,089
entire season, that should

978
00:26:52,089 --> 00:26:53,029
produce the highest yield,

979
00:26:53,170 --> 00:26:53,970
right?

980
00:26:54,069 --> 00:26:55,349
But I don't think that's the

981
00:26:55,349 --> 00:26:56,149
case. what you're saying.

982
00:26:56,750 --> 00:26:58,190
No, it isn't. And, uh, you know,

983
00:26:58,210 --> 00:27:00,089
that's a limit of a farmer, a

984
00:27:00,089 --> 00:27:01,559
farmer run, uh,

985
00:27:02,089 --> 00:27:03,450
data set and experiment, you

986
00:27:03,450 --> 00:27:04,630
know, that there's, there's, uh,

987
00:27:05,250 --> 00:27:06,289
an insight that can be clean,

988
00:27:06,369 --> 00:27:07,970
but if you take it too far, it

989
00:27:07,970 --> 00:27:09,630
falls apart, you know, or it's

990
00:27:09,630 --> 00:27:10,990
limited in its utility.

991
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:13,440
So,

992
00:27:13,410 --> 00:27:14,210
um,

993
00:27:16,940 --> 00:27:18,680
From this insight, we created a

994
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,319
$300 idea.

995
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:21,700
I think it's worth a million

996
00:27:21,700 --> 00:27:22,500
dollars.

997
00:27:23,259 --> 00:27:25,140
We can give it to everybody for

998
00:27:25,140 --> 00:27:25,940
free.

999
00:27:26,839 --> 00:27:28,519
We basically took this insight

1000
00:27:28,519 --> 00:27:29,920
of like, okay, we need to

1001
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:30,920
visualize the work that's being

1002
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,099
done on the farm and catch those

1003
00:27:33,099 --> 00:27:36,589
gaps to get that side dress at

1004
00:27:36,589 --> 00:27:37,389
that right time.

1005
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,440
We took a 4x8 whiteboard

1006
00:27:40,809 --> 00:27:42,869
and we took a tiny little tape

1007
00:27:42,869 --> 00:27:44,170
and we made a grid,

1008
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:46,640
4x8 grid.

1009
00:27:49,099 --> 00:27:50,619
listed our fields, and from left

1010
00:27:50,619 --> 00:27:51,419
to right,

1011
00:27:51,829 --> 00:27:52,629
counted out days.

1012
00:27:52,809 --> 00:27:55,490
So individual squares equaled an

1013
00:27:55,490 --> 00:27:56,549
individual day on an individual

1014
00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:57,349
farm.

1015
00:27:58,049 --> 00:27:59,029
And then we just simply used

1016
00:27:59,029 --> 00:27:59,829
magnets.

1017
00:27:59,910 --> 00:28:01,309
And we placed a magnet with

1018
00:28:01,779 --> 00:28:03,299
a color code. So for example,

1019
00:28:03,539 --> 00:28:04,400
planting was green,

1020
00:28:05,140 --> 00:28:06,200
time weeding was blue,

1021
00:28:06,579 --> 00:28:07,379
manure application,

1022
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,279
brown, so on and so forth.

1023
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,299
And what we were able to do was

1024
00:28:11,299 --> 00:28:12,579
literally just chart out the

1025
00:28:12,579 --> 00:28:13,480
work that was happening on the

1026
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:14,579
farm by placing magnets.

1027
00:28:14,819 --> 00:28:16,640
So you could walk into the

1028
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:17,440
gathering shop,

1029
00:28:17,769 --> 00:28:19,309
and look at this giant

1030
00:28:19,309 --> 00:28:20,430
whiteboard, and without even

1031
00:28:20,430 --> 00:28:21,970
reading any details, you could

1032
00:28:21,970 --> 00:28:22,769
visualize,

1033
00:28:23,029 --> 00:28:24,150
here are these patterns of work

1034
00:28:24,150 --> 00:28:25,910
that's occurring from seeing the

1035
00:28:25,910 --> 00:28:28,029
colors,

1036
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:30,839
and then the gaps in the colors.

1037
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:31,960
And so really quickly,

1038
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,779
that team, retired farmers, part

1039
00:28:34,779 --> 00:28:35,980
-time seasonal, full -time

1040
00:28:35,980 --> 00:28:37,279
folks, all could quickly

1041
00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:38,980
understand what was happening on

1042
00:28:38,980 --> 00:28:39,779
the farm,

1043
00:28:39,869 --> 00:28:40,869
what was going on,

1044
00:28:41,230 --> 00:28:42,509
what was getting behind.

1045
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:44,640
And all of a sudden,

1046
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:46,940
what changed was we

1047
00:28:47,250 --> 00:28:49,470
were able to respond, maybe a

1048
00:28:49,470 --> 00:28:50,269
three -inch range,

1049
00:28:50,130 --> 00:28:50,930
occurred and

1050
00:28:51,099 --> 00:28:52,660
projects were delayed, or a

1051
00:28:52,660 --> 00:28:55,400
piece of equipment broke, or a

1052
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,259
farm that was maybe further away

1053
00:28:57,259 --> 00:28:58,680
or had a grumpy neighbor that we

1054
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,039
had a subconscious bias, no one

1055
00:29:00,039 --> 00:29:00,940
wanted to go work at.

1056
00:29:02,140 --> 00:29:04,259
We could identify those things

1057
00:29:04,259 --> 00:29:05,259
and respond to them.

1058
00:29:05,619 --> 00:29:07,000
And so people had a sense of

1059
00:29:07,569 --> 00:29:09,109
their role, their participation,

1060
00:29:09,289 --> 00:29:10,109
their impact in the whole

1061
00:29:10,109 --> 00:29:10,909
system.

1062
00:29:12,259 --> 00:29:13,599
Folks that didn't, were new to

1063
00:29:13,599 --> 00:29:15,039
organics could start to

1064
00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:16,740
understand the sequence of these

1065
00:29:16,740 --> 00:29:18,400
interventions, these passes and

1066
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:19,480
how they complemented each other

1067
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:20,279
and how they built on each

1068
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:21,039
other.

1069
00:29:22,210 --> 00:29:23,789
And as a result of just this

1070
00:29:23,789 --> 00:29:24,589
like

1071
00:29:24,359 --> 00:29:26,460
$300 whiteboard with magnets up

1072
00:29:26,460 --> 00:29:27,259
on it,

1073
00:29:27,609 --> 00:29:28,970
we changed the way that we were

1074
00:29:28,970 --> 00:29:29,769
thinking about the farm.

1075
00:29:30,559 --> 00:29:31,579
Everyone had a high level buy

1076
00:29:31,579 --> 00:29:33,240
-in, we were executing much

1077
00:29:33,619 --> 00:29:34,819
more quickly, we're catching

1078
00:29:34,819 --> 00:29:36,640
those gaps, that management gap,

1079
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,710
and it changed the flow of

1080
00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:41,910
our farm. And so that was the

1081
00:29:41,910 --> 00:29:42,730
farm flow concept.

1082
00:29:46,009 --> 00:29:47,190
I want to talk about

1083
00:29:47,700 --> 00:29:48,960
the results that you

1084
00:29:49,269 --> 00:29:50,890
observed and what changed.

1085
00:29:51,049 --> 00:29:52,509
But before we go there,

1086
00:29:53,569 --> 00:29:55,910
let's dig into a bit more on

1087
00:29:55,910 --> 00:29:56,710
what

1088
00:29:56,740 --> 00:29:58,240
this chart actually looked like

1089
00:29:58,240 --> 00:29:59,740
on the wall. So I'm imagining

1090
00:29:59,740 --> 00:30:01,490
that over the course of a

1091
00:30:01,490 --> 00:30:02,289
season,

1092
00:30:02,349 --> 00:30:05,029
you have some gaps that are

1093
00:30:05,029 --> 00:30:05,829
three

1094
00:30:06,490 --> 00:30:07,990
days apart and you have some

1095
00:30:07,990 --> 00:30:09,230
that are 30 days apart.

1096
00:30:10,549 --> 00:30:11,349
Do

1097
00:30:11,900 --> 00:30:13,640
you deliberately try to bring

1098
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,380
things closer together and have

1099
00:30:15,380 --> 00:30:16,180
greater frequency?

1100
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,440
Or are you just trying to hit

1101
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:19,940
those optimal time windows?

1102
00:30:23,759 --> 00:30:24,900
It's seasonally appropriate.

1103
00:30:25,319 --> 00:30:26,339
So, you know, the activities

1104
00:30:26,339 --> 00:30:27,960
that are happening in August and

1105
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:29,500
September are much more spread

1106
00:30:29,500 --> 00:30:31,000
out than they might be in May

1107
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,480
and June on our farm in a green

1108
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:33,279
system.

1109
00:30:33,299 --> 00:30:34,660
So in May and June, I might

1110
00:30:34,660 --> 00:30:35,680
expect something to be every

1111
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,019
three to five days.

1112
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:38,079
And by the time we get to

1113
00:30:38,079 --> 00:30:39,630
September, it might be once

1114
00:30:39,630 --> 00:30:40,430
every 30

1115
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:41,980
days. You know, we might be

1116
00:30:42,289 --> 00:30:44,170
applying fertility and seeding a

1117
00:30:44,170 --> 00:30:45,130
cover crop, and that might be

1118
00:30:45,210 --> 00:30:46,690
only activity within those 60

1119
00:30:46,690 --> 00:30:47,490
days.

1120
00:30:47,390 --> 00:30:48,190
So,

1121
00:30:48,359 --> 00:30:49,200
I

1122
00:30:49,799 --> 00:30:50,759
can, I don't know if you're,

1123
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:52,359
it won't be helpful to the

1124
00:30:52,359 --> 00:30:53,359
listeners, but I could share an

1125
00:30:53,359 --> 00:30:55,529
image of it for your benefit,

1126
00:30:55,650 --> 00:30:56,450
John.

1127
00:30:56,289 --> 00:30:58,289
Just describe it visually, I

1128
00:30:58,289 --> 00:30:59,089
think.

1129
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,640
Yeah, so there's a limit to a

1130
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,160
four -by -eight whiteboard

1131
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,759
because you can't fit 365 tiny

1132
00:31:06,759 --> 00:31:08,500
little squares on a four -by

1133
00:31:08,500 --> 00:31:09,359
-eight. I think that means a

1134
00:31:09,359 --> 00:31:10,159
second four -by -eight

1135
00:31:09,980 --> 00:31:11,740
whiteboard. Yeah, we just keep

1136
00:31:11,740 --> 00:31:13,220
stacking together or, you know,

1137
00:31:13,559 --> 00:31:15,180
take a photo, you wipe it off.

1138
00:31:15,299 --> 00:31:16,940
I also have a two -year -old, so

1139
00:31:16,940 --> 00:31:18,140
we have to be careful about how

1140
00:31:18,140 --> 00:31:19,420
high those magnets are because

1141
00:31:19,420 --> 00:31:21,400
she can come in and move them

1142
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:22,559
around pretty quickly and the

1143
00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:23,359
whole plan's off.

1144
00:31:23,740 --> 00:31:24,539
So,

1145
00:31:24,559 --> 00:31:25,460
yeah,

1146
00:31:27,339 --> 00:31:29,759
the tool itself really became

1147
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:32,539
a gathering point or a

1148
00:31:32,539 --> 00:31:33,799
conversation for you were

1149
00:31:33,799 --> 00:31:35,660
talking about the diversity of

1150
00:31:35,660 --> 00:31:36,460
opinions.

1151
00:31:36,380 --> 00:31:37,180
And so

1152
00:31:37,220 --> 00:31:39,900
we all knew what the reality

1153
00:31:39,900 --> 00:31:40,859
was, but then we could talk

1154
00:31:40,859 --> 00:31:42,569
about in the morning, like, hey,

1155
00:31:42,589 --> 00:31:43,389
what's going on?

1156
00:31:43,289 --> 00:31:44,190
What are people seeing?

1157
00:31:44,490 --> 00:31:45,650
What do we think we need to do?

1158
00:31:45,789 --> 00:31:48,009
And it gave us a reference point

1159
00:31:48,009 --> 00:31:48,910
that we could start to talk

1160
00:31:48,910 --> 00:31:50,529
about as a team of planning out,

1161
00:31:50,630 --> 00:31:51,869
because before really everything

1162
00:31:51,869 --> 00:31:52,669
lives in your head.

1163
00:31:53,559 --> 00:31:54,680
Or maybe if you're hyper

1164
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:55,559
organized, maybe in a

1165
00:31:55,559 --> 00:31:57,450
spreadsheet or on a

1166
00:31:57,859 --> 00:31:58,659
piece of paper.

1167
00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:59,200
Even a spreadsheet, it's a

1168
00:31:59,180 --> 00:32:00,079
spreadsheet that one person

1169
00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:01,019
looks at instead of 10.

1170
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:02,200
Yeah.

1171
00:32:01,900 --> 00:32:03,079
Yeah. And so it just totally

1172
00:32:03,079 --> 00:32:05,099
changed the dynamic, uh, of what

1173
00:32:05,099 --> 00:32:07,119
people's ownership was of the,

1174
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:07,960
of the farm.

1175
00:32:08,779 --> 00:32:09,900
Um, and

1176
00:32:10,369 --> 00:32:11,369
it became a teaching tool.

1177
00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:12,470
And I think that's

1178
00:32:12,849 --> 00:32:14,730
part of part of our joy of our

1179
00:32:14,730 --> 00:32:15,869
farm is like the teaching

1180
00:32:15,869 --> 00:32:16,669
element.

1181
00:32:18,799 --> 00:32:19,859
So you've been working on this

1182
00:32:19,859 --> 00:32:21,180
now for the last three years.

1183
00:32:21,319 --> 00:32:23,180
How has this shifted and how

1184
00:32:23,180 --> 00:32:23,980
has,

1185
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,539
how have things changed on your

1186
00:32:25,539 --> 00:32:26,720
operation as a result of it?

1187
00:32:27,380 --> 00:32:29,140
Yeah. So we

1188
00:32:29,450 --> 00:32:30,289
got to the end of the first

1189
00:32:30,289 --> 00:32:31,670
season and we realized that

1190
00:32:31,670 --> 00:32:32,470
everything up on that

1191
00:32:32,430 --> 00:32:33,230
whiteboard,

1192
00:32:33,430 --> 00:32:34,309
we were going to have to type

1193
00:32:34,309 --> 00:32:35,109
up.

1194
00:32:34,900 --> 00:32:36,660
for our organic certification.

1195
00:32:37,460 --> 00:32:39,119
And so previously what we were

1196
00:32:39,119 --> 00:32:40,519
doing was just having a giant

1197
00:32:40,859 --> 00:32:43,279
paper, an office supply paper

1198
00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:44,619
calendar where we're scribbling,

1199
00:32:45,170 --> 00:32:46,029
today we did this.

1200
00:32:46,269 --> 00:32:47,309
And then that was part of our

1201
00:32:47,309 --> 00:32:48,369
certification process.

1202
00:32:49,089 --> 00:32:50,809
Totally fine, totally legit,

1203
00:32:51,210 --> 00:32:52,470
works for record keeping, is

1204
00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:53,910
accepted by the USDA for that

1205
00:32:53,910 --> 00:32:54,710
process,

1206
00:32:54,750 --> 00:32:55,910
but kind of labor intensive.

1207
00:32:56,390 --> 00:32:57,190
And if

1208
00:32:57,470 --> 00:32:58,569
we wanted to go back and refer

1209
00:32:58,569 --> 00:32:59,609
like, hey, what did we do in

1210
00:32:59,609 --> 00:33:00,509
2012

1211
00:33:00,890 --> 00:33:02,410
when we had similar

1212
00:33:02,410 --> 00:33:03,210
circumstances?

1213
00:33:03,710 --> 00:33:04,990
How could we reference that?

1214
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:08,220
It became clear like this

1215
00:33:08,220 --> 00:33:09,019
physical whiteboard

1216
00:33:09,390 --> 00:33:10,869
solved the initial problem, but

1217
00:33:10,869 --> 00:33:12,549
there was a natural evolution to

1218
00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:13,410
maybe a digital tool.

1219
00:33:14,079 --> 00:33:15,839
Could, could we build a piece of

1220
00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:16,900
software that functioned like

1221
00:33:16,900 --> 00:33:18,299
this whiteboard that could

1222
00:33:18,299 --> 00:33:19,619
assign tasks to team members?

1223
00:33:19,799 --> 00:33:21,420
We could pull in weather so we

1224
00:33:21,420 --> 00:33:23,700
could geotag it and have weather

1225
00:33:23,700 --> 00:33:24,579
pulled up automatically.

1226
00:33:25,380 --> 00:33:26,480
Could we have multi -year

1227
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:27,980
references so we could look back

1228
00:33:27,980 --> 00:33:28,980
two or three years in similar

1229
00:33:28,980 --> 00:33:30,220
circumstances and see what

1230
00:33:30,220 --> 00:33:31,500
worked or what didn't?

1231
00:33:32,390 --> 00:33:33,789
Could we have details about who

1232
00:33:33,789 --> 00:33:35,349
did the work? So if it

1233
00:33:35,660 --> 00:33:36,460
looked

1234
00:33:36,259 --> 00:33:37,299
like the.

1235
00:33:37,799 --> 00:33:38,940
cultivator was set really well,

1236
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:39,900
we could all learn from that.

1237
00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:44,390
And so I started the process of

1238
00:33:44,390 --> 00:33:45,569
developing FarmFluent, a piece

1239
00:33:45,569 --> 00:33:46,369
of software.

1240
00:33:46,470 --> 00:33:47,450
And that's been the last three

1241
00:33:47,450 --> 00:33:48,250
years journey.

1242
00:33:48,339 --> 00:33:49,640
I am a non -technical person.

1243
00:33:49,819 --> 00:33:52,140
I have no computer bones in my

1244
00:33:52,140 --> 00:33:52,940
body.

1245
00:33:53,099 --> 00:33:53,899
And so it's been a learning

1246
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:54,680
process there.

1247
00:33:55,740 --> 00:33:57,559
The first year I hired a team on

1248
00:33:57,559 --> 00:33:59,259
Upworks, which is a

1249
00:33:59,849 --> 00:34:01,950
online gig economy tool.

1250
00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:04,029
I hired a team in India to build

1251
00:34:04,029 --> 00:34:04,829
the software. I thought, yeah,

1252
00:34:04,950 --> 00:34:07,049
10 grand, I can build this

1253
00:34:07,049 --> 00:34:07,970
thing. That's going to be

1254
00:34:07,970 --> 00:34:08,769
amazing.

1255
00:34:08,469 --> 00:34:09,289
It'll change the world.

1256
00:34:10,269 --> 00:34:11,230
How hard can it be?

1257
00:34:14,110 --> 00:34:15,190
Boy, was I wrong.

1258
00:34:17,309 --> 00:34:18,829
So between the barriers of like

1259
00:34:18,829 --> 00:34:19,630
language,

1260
00:34:20,010 --> 00:34:21,429
farming context, you know, the

1261
00:34:21,429 --> 00:34:22,929
farming context in India versus

1262
00:34:22,929 --> 00:34:24,190
a Midwest grain farmer, wildly

1263
00:34:24,190 --> 00:34:24,990
different.

1264
00:34:25,409 --> 00:34:26,650
And really just being non

1265
00:34:26,650 --> 00:34:27,989
-technical, just there's a whole

1266
00:34:27,989 --> 00:34:29,389
language that's spoken about how

1267
00:34:29,389 --> 00:34:31,269
do you develop software and what

1268
00:34:31,269 --> 00:34:32,369
I might visualize in my mind

1269
00:34:32,369 --> 00:34:33,550
communicating that to a team

1270
00:34:33,550 --> 00:34:34,350
was,

1271
00:34:34,539 --> 00:34:35,340
it was just amazing.

1272
00:34:35,860 --> 00:34:36,660
So I spent a year,

1273
00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:38,320
a chunk of money,

1274
00:34:39,039 --> 00:34:40,139
and I built a bicycle that

1275
00:34:40,139 --> 00:34:42,719
didn't have wheels or a seat on

1276
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:43,519
it.

1277
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:44,639
It kind of looked like the

1278
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:45,719
thing, but it was not going to

1279
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:46,519
work.

1280
00:34:47,739 --> 00:34:49,920
Yeah. And so we restarted the

1281
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,380
process here in 2024 with

1282
00:34:53,909 --> 00:34:54,710
some grant funding.

1283
00:34:54,809 --> 00:34:56,250
So the project today has a grant

1284
00:34:56,250 --> 00:34:58,130
-funded software tool, and I'm

1285
00:34:58,130 --> 00:34:58,930
working with a team in

1286
00:34:58,809 --> 00:34:59,610
Minneapolis.

1287
00:34:59,909 --> 00:35:01,369
So a US -based team.

1288
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:03,340
I have a product manager who

1289
00:35:03,340 --> 00:35:06,280
helped build a large

1290
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:08,010
software tool that vegetable

1291
00:35:08,010 --> 00:35:08,810
farmers use.

1292
00:35:09,369 --> 00:35:10,869
And we're working with four or

1293
00:35:10,869 --> 00:35:12,030
five farmers here in the US to

1294
00:35:12,030 --> 00:35:13,710
kind of test it out, to learn

1295
00:35:13,710 --> 00:35:15,070
from what they need in their

1296
00:35:15,070 --> 00:35:17,730
farms. And so we're restarting,

1297
00:35:17,809 --> 00:35:18,610
we're relearning,

1298
00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:20,969
but we're building a tool that

1299
00:35:20,969 --> 00:35:22,070
takes that whiteboard concept

1300
00:35:22,070 --> 00:35:24,449
and starts applying it

1301
00:35:24,820 --> 00:35:25,620
to a digital world.

1302
00:35:25,619 --> 00:35:26,619
And eventually we're thinking

1303
00:35:26,619 --> 00:35:27,500
about AI.

1304
00:35:27,699 --> 00:35:28,940
So I'm excited to talk with you

1305
00:35:28,940 --> 00:35:29,740
about AI too.

1306
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:31,780
Yeah, I want to dig into the AI

1307
00:35:31,780 --> 00:35:33,900
conversation, but I

1308
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:36,119
want to not lose sight of my

1309
00:35:36,119 --> 00:35:37,619
original question quite yet,

1310
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,480
which is what's changed on your

1311
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:40,679
farm in the last three years

1312
00:35:41,340 --> 00:35:44,340
as what what in

1313
00:35:45,070 --> 00:35:47,190
terms of crop responses or crop

1314
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:48,469
management, you spoke about this

1315
00:35:48,469 --> 00:35:50,030
being kind of the nexus point

1316
00:35:50,030 --> 00:35:51,449
for a conversation and for

1317
00:35:51,449 --> 00:35:53,110
facilitating discussion around

1318
00:35:53,110 --> 00:35:54,210
different points of view, which

1319
00:35:54,210 --> 00:35:55,010
is

1320
00:35:54,889 --> 00:35:55,809
which is awesome.

1321
00:35:55,809 --> 00:35:58,809
But has that has that

1322
00:35:58,809 --> 00:36:01,250
resulted in actually improving

1323
00:36:01,250 --> 00:36:02,349
yield, which was your original

1324
00:36:02,349 --> 00:36:03,150
question?

1325
00:36:03,300 --> 00:36:05,300
Yeah, it has improved yield.

1326
00:36:08,119 --> 00:36:09,519
The first year that we used the

1327
00:36:09,519 --> 00:36:11,659
FarmFill board, we had a

1328
00:36:12,550 --> 00:36:15,389
record yield up to that point.

1329
00:36:16,150 --> 00:36:17,409
Of course, weather,

1330
00:36:17,849 --> 00:36:18,989
fertility, and everything else

1331
00:36:19,269 --> 00:36:20,570
has a large role to play.

1332
00:36:20,690 --> 00:36:23,619
I would be very, very remiss to

1333
00:36:23,619 --> 00:36:24,940
say that if you put a 4x8

1334
00:36:24,940 --> 00:36:26,099
whiteboard in your farm shop,

1335
00:36:26,179 --> 00:36:26,980
you're going to have the best

1336
00:36:26,820 --> 00:36:27,620
yields ever.

1337
00:36:29,110 --> 00:36:30,070
That simply is not true.

1338
00:36:30,130 --> 00:36:32,190
true, folks. That will not

1339
00:36:32,190 --> 00:36:32,990
happen.

1340
00:36:35,429 --> 00:36:37,530
What has changed is that

1341
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,079
the ownership of the operation

1342
00:36:40,079 --> 00:36:41,480
has changed. I think as a result

1343
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:42,280
of that,

1344
00:36:42,260 --> 00:36:43,820
we have better execution day -to

1345
00:36:43,820 --> 00:36:44,960
-day. As a result of better

1346
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,179
execution day -to -day, we have

1347
00:36:46,179 --> 00:36:47,139
more consistent yields.

1348
00:36:49,699 --> 00:36:52,059
What it is doing is reducing our

1349
00:36:53,210 --> 00:36:54,530
lived experience of stress.

1350
00:36:56,380 --> 00:36:59,079
What it is doing is taking the

1351
00:36:59,079 --> 00:37:00,179
record keeping process and

1352
00:37:00,179 --> 00:37:01,619
making that much simpler year to

1353
00:37:01,619 --> 00:37:02,420
year.

1354
00:37:03,030 --> 00:37:03,830
And

1355
00:37:03,460 --> 00:37:04,920
this

1356
00:37:05,420 --> 00:37:06,440
will be our third

1357
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,739
season with the tool in place.

1358
00:37:10,349 --> 00:37:12,210
So I'd have to look at 25 years

1359
00:37:12,210 --> 00:37:14,050
and say, can I chart that out?

1360
00:37:14,110 --> 00:37:15,489
Hard to say exactly.

1361
00:37:16,590 --> 00:37:17,390
Again, weather,

1362
00:37:17,730 --> 00:37:19,309
fertility, crops, everything

1363
00:37:19,309 --> 00:37:20,590
else comes into play

1364
00:37:20,590 --> 00:37:21,390
significantly.

1365
00:37:21,570 --> 00:37:24,409
But it's changed the day -to

1366
00:37:24,409 --> 00:37:25,309
-day experience on our farm

1367
00:37:25,309 --> 00:37:27,769
significantly and helped our

1368
00:37:27,769 --> 00:37:28,570
team.

1369
00:37:31,070 --> 00:37:31,870
All right,

1370
00:37:31,929 --> 00:37:32,769
let's talk about AI.

1371
00:37:33,170 --> 00:37:34,570
You've mentioned FieldArk twice

1372
00:37:34,570 --> 00:37:35,370
now,

1373
00:37:35,289 --> 00:37:36,630
and I have

1374
00:37:37,610 --> 00:37:38,769
conversations with people all

1375
00:37:38,769 --> 00:37:41,250
the time who are using AI for a

1376
00:37:41,250 --> 00:37:43,550
variety of purposes and in

1377
00:37:43,550 --> 00:37:45,690
usually partially delighted and

1378
00:37:45,690 --> 00:37:47,349
partially terrified and

1379
00:37:47,349 --> 00:37:48,289
partially,

1380
00:37:50,170 --> 00:37:51,610
yeah, there's just a mix of

1381
00:37:51,610 --> 00:37:53,409
emotions about the results and

1382
00:37:53,409 --> 00:37:54,489
the performance that they're

1383
00:37:54,489 --> 00:37:55,289
getting from it.

1384
00:37:55,730 --> 00:37:57,269
There's delight and

1385
00:37:57,739 --> 00:37:59,739
occasional frustration in equal

1386
00:37:59,739 --> 00:38:00,739
measure, particularly from some

1387
00:38:00,739 --> 00:38:01,719
of the more mainstream tools.

1388
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,179
What have you been playing

1389
00:38:04,179 --> 00:38:04,980
around with?

1390
00:38:05,530 --> 00:38:06,769
I did have an opportunity to use

1391
00:38:06,769 --> 00:38:07,809
Fieldark when it launched.

1392
00:38:07,969 --> 00:38:09,190
I was excited to see it.

1393
00:38:09,630 --> 00:38:10,949
We talked earlier about

1394
00:38:10,949 --> 00:38:12,489
agronomists. You were one of the

1395
00:38:12,489 --> 00:38:13,369
original beta users.

1396
00:38:14,460 --> 00:38:15,820
Maybe. Maybe I signed up, yeah.

1397
00:38:17,780 --> 00:38:19,800
We have a great,

1398
00:38:20,139 --> 00:38:21,420
long -time, conventional

1399
00:38:21,420 --> 00:38:23,679
agriculture agronomist who I

1400
00:38:23,679 --> 00:38:25,000
call the Hope Kitsuo

1401
00:38:25,010 --> 00:38:25,810
samples.

1402
00:38:26,150 --> 00:38:28,010
And if something seems really

1403
00:38:28,010 --> 00:38:29,230
confusing, I might call them or

1404
00:38:29,230 --> 00:38:30,030
send them a photo.

1405
00:38:30,639 --> 00:38:31,440
But beyond that,

1406
00:38:32,059 --> 00:38:32,900
we are on our own.

1407
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,059
And so I uploaded all of our

1408
00:38:36,059 --> 00:38:38,079
soil test results into Fieldark,

1409
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:39,139
and I started asking

1410
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:40,600
questions like,

1411
00:38:40,739 --> 00:38:41,860
okay, let's, let's walk through

1412
00:38:41,860 --> 00:38:42,660
this. What can you do?

1413
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,380
And I had a more robust

1414
00:38:45,380 --> 00:38:46,800
conversation with field lark

1415
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,079
than I've had with my local

1416
00:38:48,079 --> 00:38:49,659
agronomist over the last six,

1417
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:51,380
seven years, uh, in about 30

1418
00:38:51,380 --> 00:38:52,180
minutes.

1419
00:38:52,099 --> 00:38:53,679
So in this way, it was really

1420
00:38:53,679 --> 00:38:54,480
exciting.

1421
00:38:54,929 --> 00:38:55,730
Um,

1422
00:38:55,289 --> 00:38:57,039
Out of curiosity, what was the

1423
00:38:57,039 --> 00:38:58,059
nature of the questions that you

1424
00:38:58,059 --> 00:38:59,159
were asking and what was,

1425
00:38:59,619 --> 00:39:00,420
um,

1426
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:01,559
what were the types of responses

1427
00:39:01,559 --> 00:39:02,460
that you were getting back?

1428
00:39:04,050 --> 00:39:05,409
Um, I started out, I've just

1429
00:39:05,409 --> 00:39:06,210
pointed up here.

1430
00:39:06,230 --> 00:39:07,730
I started out very generic.

1431
00:39:07,869 --> 00:39:08,909
So I said, attach it

1432
00:39:09,409 --> 00:39:10,269
to my soil samples.

1433
00:39:10,349 --> 00:39:11,250
What can you tell me about my

1434
00:39:11,250 --> 00:39:12,050
farm?

1435
00:39:12,530 --> 00:39:13,710
I got a long response, and then

1436
00:39:13,710 --> 00:39:14,570
we started digging into it.

1437
00:39:14,670 --> 00:39:15,550
So then I started saying,

1438
00:39:16,010 --> 00:39:16,949
on

1439
00:39:18,579 --> 00:39:20,559
our farm, we have some peat

1440
00:39:20,559 --> 00:39:21,820
soils, which are really high in

1441
00:39:21,820 --> 00:39:22,620
organic matter.

1442
00:39:22,780 --> 00:39:24,260
And so that was throwing off

1443
00:39:24,260 --> 00:39:25,060
some of the model.

1444
00:39:24,940 --> 00:39:25,960
And so I said, OK, remove the

1445
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:27,920
fields with super, super high

1446
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:28,720
organic matter.

1447
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,000
Let's dig into some

1448
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,000
of my target yield goals.

1449
00:39:35,059 --> 00:39:36,079
What can you tell about

1450
00:39:36,260 --> 00:39:37,260
micronutrients?

1451
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,039
What suggestions would you have

1452
00:39:39,039 --> 00:39:40,780
for increasing these results?

1453
00:39:43,710 --> 00:39:44,909
I started asking about foliar

1454
00:39:44,909 --> 00:39:46,769
boron and zinc on corn.

1455
00:39:47,449 --> 00:39:48,590
And, you

1456
00:39:49,159 --> 00:39:50,480
know, got interesting answers

1457
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:51,280
there.

1458
00:39:51,099 --> 00:39:51,900
So

1459
00:39:51,659 --> 00:39:53,219
it's

1460
00:39:54,389 --> 00:39:56,130
been fun. I think my experience

1461
00:39:56,130 --> 00:39:57,250
with AI has been,

1462
00:39:58,019 --> 00:39:59,820
I think about it maybe as like a

1463
00:39:59,820 --> 00:40:02,519
college intern, where it

1464
00:40:02,519 --> 00:40:04,659
has access to knowledge,

1465
00:40:05,949 --> 00:40:07,500
but not quite

1466
00:40:08,579 --> 00:40:10,780
the context to offer

1467
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,019
original insights that it can

1468
00:40:15,019 --> 00:40:15,820
assemble

1469
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,440
and answer

1470
00:40:18,329 --> 00:40:19,230
things

1471
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:21,699
you maybe give a framework for,

1472
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,500
but it's not generating, for me

1473
00:40:23,500 --> 00:40:24,300
at least,

1474
00:40:24,690 --> 00:40:25,630
totally

1475
00:40:27,219 --> 00:40:28,880
new and original concepts.

1476
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,460
The temptation in my experience,

1477
00:40:31,559 --> 00:40:32,480
and this is, I'm talking about

1478
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,599
chat GPT or other large language

1479
00:40:34,599 --> 00:40:35,880
models, not necessarily field

1480
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:36,680
work, but

1481
00:40:37,130 --> 00:40:39,829
my experience with AI is this,

1482
00:40:39,989 --> 00:40:41,329
maybe this same sort of delight

1483
00:40:41,329 --> 00:40:43,130
and distrust that

1484
00:40:43,639 --> 00:40:45,079
initially it's really tempting

1485
00:40:45,079 --> 00:40:46,280
to interact with it and just

1486
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:47,260
think that it's going to do the

1487
00:40:47,260 --> 00:40:48,060
thinking for you.

1488
00:40:48,269 --> 00:40:50,010
But where I found AI to be most

1489
00:40:50,010 --> 00:40:52,449
helpful is if you come to the

1490
00:40:52,449 --> 00:40:53,769
tool with a question,

1491
00:40:54,150 --> 00:40:55,090
with context,

1492
00:40:56,590 --> 00:40:57,989
and have done the work of

1493
00:40:57,989 --> 00:40:58,949
thinking before,

1494
00:40:59,869 --> 00:41:00,670
it's helpful.

1495
00:41:00,929 --> 00:41:02,349
If you're approaching the thing

1496
00:41:02,349 --> 00:41:04,610
with not much thought or without

1497
00:41:04,889 --> 00:41:07,150
much inquiry or kind of

1498
00:41:08,199 --> 00:41:09,000
context,

1499
00:41:09,260 --> 00:41:10,060
the

1500
00:41:10,380 --> 00:41:11,840
results you get back are

1501
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:12,640
mediocre.

1502
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,039
I think there's a fundamental

1503
00:41:17,039 --> 00:41:17,860
difference, obviously.

1504
00:41:19,630 --> 00:41:21,230
a great deal about the

1505
00:41:21,230 --> 00:41:22,909
development of AI and the work

1506
00:41:22,909 --> 00:41:24,150
that we've put into FieldArk.

1507
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:27,760
And there's a fundamental

1508
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:29,400
difference between the way

1509
00:41:29,780 --> 00:41:32,610
humans respond to answering

1510
00:41:32,610 --> 00:41:33,809
questions and

1511
00:41:34,539 --> 00:41:36,219
the way a machine responds.

1512
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:39,080
And there are

1513
00:41:39,710 --> 00:41:41,650
two key ones that I'll focus on

1514
00:41:41,650 --> 00:41:42,450
for the moment.

1515
00:41:42,510 --> 00:41:43,590
One of them is,

1516
00:41:45,349 --> 00:41:46,969
OK, you're an expert organic

1517
00:41:46,969 --> 00:41:48,510
corn and soybean farmer.

1518
00:41:49,230 --> 00:41:50,030
And for your

1519
00:41:50,139 --> 00:41:51,960
local environment, you've got, I

1520
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:53,000
mean, there's no question you

1521
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:54,199
know way more about that than I

1522
00:41:54,199 --> 00:41:55,000
do.

1523
00:41:55,519 --> 00:41:57,989
And I ask you the question to

1524
00:41:57,989 --> 00:41:59,789
say, hey, I want to grow organic

1525
00:41:59,789 --> 00:42:00,590
corn.

1526
00:42:03,969 --> 00:42:05,650
How many cultivation

1527
00:42:07,079 --> 00:42:08,320
passes do I need to make for

1528
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:09,159
effective weed control?

1529
00:42:10,679 --> 00:42:12,039
And you're going to say, well,

1530
00:42:12,179 --> 00:42:13,820
it depends on this and that.

1531
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:14,840
And the other thing, it depends

1532
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:15,640
on what you're doing.

1533
00:42:15,489 --> 00:42:16,889
It depends on there's there's a

1534
00:42:16,889 --> 00:42:18,030
whole bunch of variables like

1535
00:42:18,030 --> 00:42:19,929
you. You can't give an answer to

1536
00:42:19,929 --> 00:42:22,090
that question without knowing a

1537
00:42:22,090 --> 00:42:23,130
whole bunch of context.

1538
00:42:23,389 --> 00:42:24,809
So knowing the context is

1539
00:42:24,809 --> 00:42:26,130
important that any human is

1540
00:42:26,130 --> 00:42:27,539
going to say, well, I don't know

1541
00:42:27,539 --> 00:42:28,340
the answer to that.

1542
00:42:28,119 --> 00:42:29,360
It's like there is no cut and

1543
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:30,160
dried answer.

1544
00:42:30,409 --> 00:42:32,579
Yeah. And we will respond.

1545
00:42:32,780 --> 00:42:34,099
Humans will respond by asking

1546
00:42:34,099 --> 00:42:36,019
for more context or describing

1547
00:42:36,019 --> 00:42:37,199
that more context is needed.

1548
00:42:38,190 --> 00:42:38,990
That's one

1549
00:42:39,199 --> 00:42:40,219
significant

1550
00:42:41,980 --> 00:42:43,219
And the other significant

1551
00:42:43,219 --> 00:42:45,159
difference is we'll ask about

1552
00:42:45,159 --> 00:42:45,960
one thing,

1553
00:42:46,980 --> 00:42:49,280
and for someone who is an expert

1554
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,000
or has experience and knowledge

1555
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:52,239
in a certain area,

1556
00:42:53,079 --> 00:42:54,679
they will say, well, actually,

1557
00:42:55,349 --> 00:42:56,590
while that might appear to be a

1558
00:42:56,590 --> 00:42:57,390
good question,

1559
00:42:57,780 --> 00:42:58,599
you're actually completely

1560
00:42:58,599 --> 00:42:59,900
missing this thing over here.

1561
00:43:00,079 --> 00:43:00,960
And what you should be thinking

1562
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:01,920
about is you shouldn't be

1563
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:03,099
thinking about X, you should be

1564
00:43:03,099 --> 00:43:04,000
thinking about Y.

1565
00:43:05,139 --> 00:43:06,219
The machine can't do that,

1566
00:43:06,739 --> 00:43:09,099
doesn't do that, or does it very

1567
00:43:09,099 --> 00:43:09,980
poorly at this point.

1568
00:43:11,210 --> 00:43:13,349
And so I

1569
00:43:15,159 --> 00:43:16,699
had this experience

1570
00:43:19,079 --> 00:43:19,880
I've

1571
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:22,119
had some of these interviews,

1572
00:43:22,380 --> 00:43:23,860
both here on the podcast and in

1573
00:43:23,860 --> 00:43:24,760
person,

1574
00:43:25,199 --> 00:43:26,159
that

1575
00:43:26,469 --> 00:43:28,070
haven't been publicly released

1576
00:43:28,070 --> 00:43:28,870
yet,

1577
00:43:29,050 --> 00:43:30,650
where I interviewed people from

1578
00:43:30,650 --> 00:43:32,449
a military background about

1579
00:43:32,449 --> 00:43:34,030
research work that they did

1580
00:43:34,030 --> 00:43:36,710
decades ago on plant pathology

1581
00:43:36,710 --> 00:43:37,510
and so forth.

1582
00:43:38,199 --> 00:43:40,820
And when you get into some of

1583
00:43:40,820 --> 00:43:42,400
those conversations that have

1584
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,219
national security implications,

1585
00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:48,300
the answers become very direct

1586
00:43:48,300 --> 00:43:49,239
and concise.

1587
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,159
They become yes, no.

1588
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,840
It's like they will only answer

1589
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:55,559
the question that you asked and

1590
00:43:55,559 --> 00:43:56,420
they don't elaborate.

1591
00:43:57,539 --> 00:43:59,420
And so in order to have any type

1592
00:43:59,420 --> 00:44:00,679
of conversation or any type of

1593
00:44:00,679 --> 00:44:02,260
dialogue, you have to be smart

1594
00:44:02,260 --> 00:44:03,060
enough to

1595
00:44:03,329 --> 00:44:04,750
know what questions to ask.

1596
00:44:05,139 --> 00:44:06,119
Because if you don't know the

1597
00:44:06,119 --> 00:44:07,219
questions, they're not going to

1598
00:44:07,219 --> 00:44:08,219
volunteer the information.

1599
00:44:09,510 --> 00:44:10,310
And

1600
00:44:11,349 --> 00:44:13,769
think the same thing is so true

1601
00:44:13,769 --> 00:44:15,980
of these AI tools like

1602
00:44:15,980 --> 00:44:16,780
FieldLark,

1603
00:44:17,139 --> 00:44:20,150
is you have to, to some

1604
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:21,690
extent, you have to be smart

1605
00:44:21,690 --> 00:44:22,909
enough to know the question to

1606
00:44:22,909 --> 00:44:26,059
ask. And this is one of the

1607
00:44:26,059 --> 00:44:27,440
things that I've tried to

1608
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:28,800
develop in thinking about,

1609
00:44:29,420 --> 00:44:31,659
how do we develop these tools to

1610
00:44:31,659 --> 00:44:33,880
help people become better, to

1611
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:35,079
help people ask better questions

1612
00:44:35,079 --> 00:44:35,880
and so forth?

1613
00:44:36,380 --> 00:44:38,400
is in field work we have this

1614
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,340
these follow -up questions um

1615
00:44:40,340 --> 00:44:42,679
and as part of each response and

1616
00:44:42,679 --> 00:44:44,260
it is that is our

1617
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:46,340
initial attempt

1618
00:44:46,909 --> 00:44:48,409
to to

1619
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:50,920
inspire more of a dialogue and

1620
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:52,480
to help all of us ask better

1621
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:53,599
questions and remind us of

1622
00:44:53,599 --> 00:44:54,920
questions that we might perhaps

1623
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:55,960
should be thinking about but

1624
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:56,860
that we're not thinking about

1625
00:44:56,860 --> 00:44:57,660
right now

1626
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:58,900
yep john

1627
00:44:59,949 --> 00:45:00,989
as you've been building this

1628
00:45:00,989 --> 00:45:01,789
tool

1629
00:45:01,730 --> 00:45:03,269
how do you how do you balance

1630
00:45:03,269 --> 00:45:04,070
the

1631
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:06,480
what I might perceive as risks

1632
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:07,900
of AI, you know, either energy

1633
00:45:07,900 --> 00:45:10,159
consumption or data privacy or

1634
00:45:10,159 --> 00:45:10,960
even

1635
00:45:11,519 --> 00:45:12,380
kind of intellectual, what

1636
00:45:12,380 --> 00:45:13,180
you're describing, kind of

1637
00:45:13,159 --> 00:45:15,659
intellectual risk of keeping

1638
00:45:16,550 --> 00:45:17,710
in the creativity of the human

1639
00:45:17,710 --> 00:45:19,250
element. How do you balance that

1640
00:45:19,250 --> 00:45:20,050
with the

1641
00:45:20,110 --> 00:45:21,849
opportunities or the

1642
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:25,210
utility of the tools that you're

1643
00:45:25,210 --> 00:45:26,010
building?

1644
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:28,160
Well,

1645
00:45:27,940 --> 00:45:28,940
there's

1646
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:32,920
several questions within the

1647
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,199
question that you've asked, but

1648
00:45:34,199 --> 00:45:36,340
I'd say broadly I've taken a

1649
00:45:36,340 --> 00:45:38,139
fairly pragmatic approach to

1650
00:45:38,139 --> 00:45:38,940
just say

1651
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,619
AI is what we're currently

1652
00:45:44,619 --> 00:45:46,079
calling AI, which is largely

1653
00:45:46,079 --> 00:45:47,679
defined in terms of LLMs, these

1654
00:45:47,679 --> 00:45:48,519
large language models.

1655
00:45:48,679 --> 00:45:49,800
And this is obviously this whole

1656
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:51,219
space is rapidly iterating and

1657
00:45:51,219 --> 00:45:52,019
evolving.

1658
00:45:52,630 --> 00:45:55,230
But there's a very pragmatic

1659
00:45:55,230 --> 00:45:57,420
element of saying, this is going

1660
00:45:57,420 --> 00:45:59,059
to exist whether we create

1661
00:45:59,059 --> 00:46:00,019
FieldArk or not.

1662
00:46:01,599 --> 00:46:03,800
This whole space is like,

1663
00:46:05,079 --> 00:46:06,420
the guardrails are off

1664
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:08,739
and we don't have control of

1665
00:46:08,739 --> 00:46:09,539
this horse anymore.

1666
00:46:10,750 --> 00:46:13,570
So there is an element of

1667
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,800
if you can't beat them, you

1668
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:19,179
might as well join them and

1669
00:46:19,179 --> 00:46:21,579
let's create something that is

1670
00:46:21,579 --> 00:46:23,280
better than what currently

1671
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:24,360
exists for

1672
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,079
a specific use case.

1673
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:27,340
Let's create something that is

1674
00:46:27,340 --> 00:46:29,380
better, that helps people

1675
00:46:29,380 --> 00:46:30,579
better, that helps farmers and

1676
00:46:30,579 --> 00:46:31,840
agronomists to be more effective

1677
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:32,640
and

1678
00:46:32,789 --> 00:46:33,969
that has significantly more

1679
00:46:33,969 --> 00:46:36,170
powerful for a specific use case

1680
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,519
than ChatGPT or Grok or Gemini

1681
00:46:39,519 --> 00:46:40,639
or any of these other tools that

1682
00:46:40,639 --> 00:46:41,440
are out there.

1683
00:46:42,179 --> 00:46:45,139
So that's the one consideration.

1684
00:46:45,340 --> 00:46:47,159
And then another aspect of the

1685
00:46:47,159 --> 00:46:48,949
question you asked about energy

1686
00:46:48,949 --> 00:46:50,670
consumption, this kind of

1687
00:46:50,670 --> 00:46:53,250
relates to my initial response,

1688
00:46:53,409 --> 00:46:54,210
is

1689
00:46:54,570 --> 00:46:55,849
we

1690
00:46:59,170 --> 00:47:00,949
are perfectly comfortable in

1691
00:47:01,679 --> 00:47:04,400
many domains of life using

1692
00:47:04,739 --> 00:47:06,739
significant energy

1693
00:47:07,829 --> 00:47:10,530
And you could argue using energy

1694
00:47:10,530 --> 00:47:12,989
wastefully for outcomes that we

1695
00:47:12,989 --> 00:47:14,130
perceive to be valuable.

1696
00:47:15,489 --> 00:47:16,349
So, for example,

1697
00:47:16,670 --> 00:47:17,750
I'm trying to forget or trying

1698
00:47:17,750 --> 00:47:19,429
to recall who did this analysis.

1699
00:47:19,969 --> 00:47:21,289
I want to say it was Wendell

1700
00:47:21,289 --> 00:47:22,510
Berry, but I don't think it was

1701
00:47:22,510 --> 00:47:23,310
Wendell Berry.

1702
00:47:25,260 --> 00:47:26,360
Wendell might have talked about

1703
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:27,179
it, though, in Unsettling

1704
00:47:27,179 --> 00:47:28,099
America,

1705
00:47:28,699 --> 00:47:30,119
but something to the effect that

1706
00:47:30,119 --> 00:47:32,300
our modern agriculture today,

1707
00:47:33,210 --> 00:47:36,210
we use three to four calories of

1708
00:47:37,150 --> 00:47:38,949
petroleum energy to produce a

1709
00:47:38,949 --> 00:47:40,409
single calorie of food energy,

1710
00:47:40,590 --> 00:47:42,329
which is not sustainable on its

1711
00:47:42,329 --> 00:47:43,130
face.

1712
00:47:44,449 --> 00:47:46,150
It's working for a temporary

1713
00:47:46,150 --> 00:47:47,869
moment in history, but when you

1714
00:47:47,869 --> 00:47:50,309
look at overall human history in

1715
00:47:50,309 --> 00:47:52,690
terms of centuries or millennia,

1716
00:47:52,789 --> 00:47:54,650
then I think at some point we

1717
00:47:54,650 --> 00:47:55,929
will look backward and say that

1718
00:47:55,929 --> 00:47:57,489
was a very wasteful use of

1719
00:47:57,489 --> 00:47:58,289
energy.

1720
00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:01,460
And similarly,

1721
00:48:02,039 --> 00:48:04,860
so we have to look at these

1722
00:48:05,809 --> 00:48:08,289
LLMs have been created,

1723
00:48:08,730 --> 00:48:09,909
what are we going to use them

1724
00:48:09,909 --> 00:48:10,710
for?

1725
00:48:11,409 --> 00:48:12,730
How are we using that energy?

1726
00:48:13,050 --> 00:48:14,610
And so I would argue that using

1727
00:48:14,610 --> 00:48:15,989
that energy for

1728
00:48:16,530 --> 00:48:18,250
the purposes of facilitating a

1729
00:48:18,250 --> 00:48:19,050
more

1730
00:48:19,050 --> 00:48:21,130
a regenerative agriculture is a

1731
00:48:21,130 --> 00:48:22,289
valuable use of that energy,

1732
00:48:22,389 --> 00:48:24,269
much more valuable than what

1733
00:48:24,269 --> 00:48:25,690
it's probably most widely being

1734
00:48:25,690 --> 00:48:27,170
used for on a consumer audience

1735
00:48:27,170 --> 00:48:27,970
perspective.

1736
00:48:28,750 --> 00:48:30,489
Yeah. Yeah. Looking up a recipe

1737
00:48:30,489 --> 00:48:31,289
for spaghetti.

1738
00:48:31,820 --> 00:48:32,620
Exactly.

1739
00:48:32,500 --> 00:48:33,300
Probably not.

1740
00:48:34,039 --> 00:48:34,840
Not

1741
00:48:35,059 --> 00:48:35,860
helping the world.

1742
00:48:36,340 --> 00:48:37,140
Yeah.

1743
00:48:36,949 --> 00:48:37,750
Yeah.

1744
00:48:37,610 --> 00:48:38,410
Well, it's

1745
00:48:40,369 --> 00:48:43,190
one of the principles that I

1746
00:48:43,429 --> 00:48:44,750
find is true at our farm is that

1747
00:48:44,750 --> 00:48:46,789
we've we we have done well by

1748
00:48:46,789 --> 00:48:47,750
being early adopters,

1749
00:48:48,050 --> 00:48:49,230
by being willing to ask

1750
00:48:49,230 --> 00:48:50,630
questions, by being able to lean

1751
00:48:50,630 --> 00:48:51,889
into things, whether that was

1752
00:48:52,780 --> 00:48:54,460
organic or certain technologies,

1753
00:48:54,739 --> 00:48:56,059
say a GPS for

1754
00:48:56,380 --> 00:48:57,840
tractors being able to drive

1755
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:58,800
straight so you could cultivate

1756
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:00,119
better, whatever, whatever it

1757
00:49:00,119 --> 00:49:01,360
may be. We've, we've generally

1758
00:49:01,730 --> 00:49:03,170
leaned into being early

1759
00:49:03,170 --> 00:49:04,570
adopters. And so that's been my

1760
00:49:04,789 --> 00:49:05,690
approach to this

1761
00:49:06,099 --> 00:49:07,719
tool in question too, is that

1762
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:08,659
there

1763
00:49:10,179 --> 00:49:11,179
needs to be a healthy amount of

1764
00:49:11,179 --> 00:49:12,940
skepticism. There are always

1765
00:49:12,940 --> 00:49:13,740
trade -offs.

1766
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,679
And at the same time, it is, it

1767
00:49:17,679 --> 00:49:18,480
is a tool.

1768
00:49:21,570 --> 00:49:22,370
And

1769
00:49:23,409 --> 00:49:24,650
we,

1770
00:49:27,389 --> 00:49:28,409
we know that

1771
00:49:29,909 --> 00:49:31,150
commodity agriculture is going

1772
00:49:31,150 --> 00:49:32,190
to be using these things too.

1773
00:49:33,030 --> 00:49:33,830
And.

1774
00:49:34,070 --> 00:49:35,449
and it will be to

1775
00:49:36,619 --> 00:49:37,719
kind of perpetuate those

1776
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:38,519
systems.

1777
00:49:39,230 --> 00:49:40,750
And if we're not thinking about

1778
00:49:40,750 --> 00:49:42,230
how we're going to participate

1779
00:49:42,230 --> 00:49:43,650
or respond, I think

1780
00:49:45,079 --> 00:49:45,920
those

1781
00:49:46,420 --> 00:49:47,840
conventional systems will

1782
00:49:48,599 --> 00:49:49,719
continue to dominate.

1783
00:49:51,550 --> 00:49:53,630
So yeah, I would say I kind of

1784
00:49:53,630 --> 00:49:54,929
take a similar perspective about

1785
00:49:55,369 --> 00:49:56,909
using the tools for,

1786
00:49:58,019 --> 00:50:01,380
you know, for good, for driving

1787
00:50:01,380 --> 00:50:02,180
change.

1788
00:50:02,380 --> 00:50:03,699
Well, in the way that we've

1789
00:50:03,699 --> 00:50:05,679
developed FieldLark, I'm

1790
00:50:05,679 --> 00:50:06,719
actually not thinking about it

1791
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,280
in terms of conventional

1792
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,480
systems versus organic or

1793
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:12,320
regenerative systems.

1794
00:50:13,150 --> 00:50:14,730
We built it,

1795
00:50:15,409 --> 00:50:16,989
I built it very deliberately

1796
00:50:17,690 --> 00:50:19,730
to be

1797
00:50:21,769 --> 00:50:23,130
what's the word that I'm looking

1798
00:50:23,130 --> 00:50:25,650
for, to be practiced agnostic or

1799
00:50:25,650 --> 00:50:26,450
to be,

1800
00:50:26,889 --> 00:50:29,570
but to instead function from a

1801
00:50:29,570 --> 00:50:31,349
first principles perspective and

1802
00:50:31,670 --> 00:50:32,849
to function from an outcomes

1803
00:50:32,849 --> 00:50:33,650
perspective.

1804
00:50:34,070 --> 00:50:35,530
So, and when I say an outcomes

1805
00:50:35,530 --> 00:50:36,330
perspective,

1806
00:50:38,250 --> 00:50:39,670
FieldLark is directly,

1807
00:50:40,250 --> 00:50:42,510
is directed to take second and

1808
00:50:42,510 --> 00:50:43,829
third order consequences into

1809
00:50:43,829 --> 00:50:45,489
consideration as well to the

1810
00:50:45,489 --> 00:50:46,469
degree that they're understood

1811
00:50:46,469 --> 00:50:47,269
or known.

1812
00:50:48,500 --> 00:50:50,179
And so it's quite fascinating.

1813
00:50:51,929 --> 00:50:53,630
I spent quite some time thinking

1814
00:50:53,630 --> 00:50:54,430
about

1815
00:50:54,820 --> 00:50:57,019
in developing the

1816
00:50:57,719 --> 00:50:59,360
ethical framework

1817
00:50:59,989 --> 00:51:02,329
of what's the ethical framework

1818
00:51:02,329 --> 00:51:03,130
and what are the first

1819
00:51:03,050 --> 00:51:04,289
principles framework that

1820
00:51:04,289 --> 00:51:06,050
FieldLARC is to operate within

1821
00:51:06,050 --> 00:51:06,850
and

1822
00:51:06,889 --> 00:51:08,309
what are its foundational

1823
00:51:08,309 --> 00:51:09,110
directives.

1824
00:51:09,010 --> 00:51:09,810
And so when you,

1825
00:51:11,110 --> 00:51:12,710
and it's interesting because we

1826
00:51:12,710 --> 00:51:13,869
didn't give FieldLARC any

1827
00:51:13,869 --> 00:51:14,670
directives

1828
00:51:15,380 --> 00:51:18,000
to, for example, to say don't

1829
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:19,500
make recommendations for

1830
00:51:19,500 --> 00:51:21,440
pesticides or don't make

1831
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:22,739
recommendations for anhydrous

1832
00:51:22,739 --> 00:51:24,420
ammonia or a variety of

1833
00:51:24,420 --> 00:51:25,220
different things that I could

1834
00:51:25,119 --> 00:51:25,920
point out.

1835
00:51:26,670 --> 00:51:28,329
But what is intriguing is that

1836
00:51:28,329 --> 00:51:30,670
FieldLark will not make,

1837
00:51:31,690 --> 00:51:33,449
at least not readily on an

1838
00:51:33,449 --> 00:51:34,949
initial request, it will not

1839
00:51:34,949 --> 00:51:36,550
make recommendations for those

1840
00:51:36,550 --> 00:51:39,119
types of things because of its

1841
00:51:39,119 --> 00:51:41,030
ethical framework and its first

1842
00:51:41,030 --> 00:51:42,250
principles framework thinking

1843
00:51:42,849 --> 00:51:44,190
where it takes into

1844
00:51:44,190 --> 00:51:45,690
consideration second

1845
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:47,780
and third order consequences.

1846
00:51:48,030 --> 00:51:49,349
Does all of a sudden say, well,

1847
00:51:49,449 --> 00:51:51,110
actually, yes, anhydrous ammonia

1848
00:51:51,110 --> 00:51:52,710
can be a very valuable, useful

1849
00:51:52,710 --> 00:51:55,429
form of nitrogen from a crop and

1850
00:51:55,429 --> 00:51:56,349
agronomy perspective,

1851
00:51:56,650 --> 00:51:58,909
but anhydrous ammonia also has

1852
00:51:58,909 --> 00:52:00,130
all of these other

1853
00:52:00,570 --> 00:52:01,909
externalities

1854
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:03,760
that are perceived to be

1855
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:05,199
unhealthy to the environment and

1856
00:52:05,199 --> 00:52:06,000
to the ecosystem.

1857
00:52:06,019 --> 00:52:06,820
And therefore,

1858
00:52:07,369 --> 00:52:08,610
FieldLark, without being

1859
00:52:08,610 --> 00:52:09,809
specifically told to,

1860
00:52:10,420 --> 00:52:12,989
it will selectively, it will

1861
00:52:12,989 --> 00:52:14,110
make preferential

1862
00:52:14,110 --> 00:52:15,909
recommendations for other forms

1863
00:52:15,909 --> 00:52:16,710
of nitrogen

1864
00:52:17,119 --> 00:52:18,619
other than anhydrous ammonia.

1865
00:52:18,739 --> 00:52:20,539
So it's not that it doesn't make

1866
00:52:20,539 --> 00:52:21,639
recommendations for nitrogen,

1867
00:52:21,780 --> 00:52:24,380
it's just it's it has it has

1868
00:52:24,380 --> 00:52:26,300
that first principles approach,

1869
00:52:26,849 --> 00:52:28,530
which is so intriguing because

1870
00:52:28,530 --> 00:52:30,829
we deliberately asked it,

1871
00:52:31,170 --> 00:52:33,670
directed Fieldmark to have no

1872
00:52:33,670 --> 00:52:35,989
biases, to remove all biases in

1873
00:52:35,989 --> 00:52:38,280
favor of any system.

1874
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:39,800
It's not in favor of organic, or

1875
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:41,039
not in favor of regenerative, or

1876
00:52:41,039 --> 00:52:41,980
not in favor of

1877
00:52:42,559 --> 00:52:44,539
of contemporary agricultural

1878
00:52:44,539 --> 00:52:46,320
systems, but instead to operate

1879
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:47,460
exclusively from a first

1880
00:52:47,460 --> 00:52:48,659
principles perspective and not

1881
00:52:48,659 --> 00:52:49,559
take any biases into

1882
00:52:49,559 --> 00:52:50,360
consideration.

1883
00:52:50,679 --> 00:52:52,199
And that very fact makes it

1884
00:52:52,199 --> 00:52:53,960
appear to some people as if

1885
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:54,800
though it were biased.

1886
00:52:55,380 --> 00:52:56,180
Yeah.

1887
00:52:58,309 --> 00:52:59,829
Challenging our own worldviews.

1888
00:53:00,050 --> 00:53:00,850
Yeah. Yeah.

1889
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:01,800
Yeah.

1890
00:53:02,599 --> 00:53:05,960
When you reflect on

1891
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:07,219
what you've learned in the last

1892
00:53:07,219 --> 00:53:09,079
couple of months of releasing

1893
00:53:09,079 --> 00:53:10,300
FieldArk, what's been

1894
00:53:10,670 --> 00:53:11,630
unexpected?

1895
00:53:16,579 --> 00:53:18,139
That's a good question.

1896
00:53:19,199 --> 00:53:20,000
I

1897
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:24,560
would say

1898
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:27,079
perhaps this

1899
00:53:29,369 --> 00:53:30,530
is a reflection of my own

1900
00:53:30,530 --> 00:53:31,330
biases.

1901
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:32,760
As

1902
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:35,460
you described, I tend to be a

1903
00:53:35,460 --> 00:53:37,019
technology early adopter.

1904
00:53:37,380 --> 00:53:39,199
I've leaned in very strongly

1905
00:53:39,199 --> 00:53:40,239
into

1906
00:53:41,449 --> 00:53:43,510
testing these various GPT

1907
00:53:43,510 --> 00:53:45,010
platforms when they were first

1908
00:53:45,010 --> 00:53:45,810
launched.

1909
00:53:46,940 --> 00:53:48,539
I've been thinking about them

1910
00:53:48,539 --> 00:53:50,139
for over a decade.

1911
00:53:51,210 --> 00:53:53,070
I had some early exposure to the

1912
00:53:53,070 --> 00:53:54,250
technology that became these

1913
00:53:54,250 --> 00:53:55,650
large language models long

1914
00:53:55,650 --> 00:53:56,550
before they were publicly

1915
00:53:56,550 --> 00:53:57,350
released.

1916
00:53:57,820 --> 00:53:58,620
And so I've been thinking about

1917
00:53:58,539 --> 00:53:59,760
this for some time, and I've

1918
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:01,559
leaned heavily into using them

1919
00:54:01,559 --> 00:54:05,000
and building them to work for

1920
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:05,800
me.

1921
00:54:06,550 --> 00:54:07,489
And the

1922
00:54:08,190 --> 00:54:08,990
piece that

1923
00:54:09,099 --> 00:54:11,699
I'm perhaps the most surprised

1924
00:54:11,699 --> 00:54:12,500
about

1925
00:54:12,639 --> 00:54:14,860
is that many people,

1926
00:54:16,019 --> 00:54:18,880
many users of FieldLark, and

1927
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:20,739
based on what I can see, I'm

1928
00:54:20,739 --> 00:54:22,739
assuming other GPT models as

1929
00:54:22,739 --> 00:54:23,539
well,

1930
00:54:24,269 --> 00:54:25,309
are still using it as a

1931
00:54:25,309 --> 00:54:26,389
glorified Google search.

1932
00:54:27,630 --> 00:54:28,829
They're asking more specific

1933
00:54:28,829 --> 00:54:29,630
questions,

1934
00:54:30,539 --> 00:54:33,889
but they haven't

1935
00:54:33,889 --> 00:54:35,690
really understood the

1936
00:54:35,690 --> 00:54:37,010
implications of what this

1937
00:54:37,010 --> 00:54:38,610
technology can do for them once

1938
00:54:38,610 --> 00:54:39,889
it is trained for them.

1939
00:54:40,530 --> 00:54:41,730
And you mentioned this at the

1940
00:54:41,730 --> 00:54:42,530
beginning of the con, you

1941
00:54:42,449 --> 00:54:44,530
uploaded a bunch of

1942
00:54:46,039 --> 00:54:47,239
soil samples. But what you can

1943
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:49,579
actually do is within FieldLark,

1944
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:50,880
you have these different

1945
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:51,680
projects.

1946
00:54:51,860 --> 00:54:53,099
So you can have a project be a

1947
00:54:53,099 --> 00:54:55,019
specific field or a farm or a

1948
00:54:55,019 --> 00:54:55,920
specific crop that you're

1949
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,079
working on. Or let's just say

1950
00:54:58,079 --> 00:54:59,280
you use it for your whole farm.

1951
00:54:59,900 --> 00:55:00,700
So

1952
00:55:00,610 --> 00:55:03,860
you can write up a document or

1953
00:55:03,860 --> 00:55:05,059
even even better.

1954
00:55:05,159 --> 00:55:06,739
And this is the way that I this

1955
00:55:06,739 --> 00:55:09,159
is the way that I use FieldLark

1956
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:10,820
and other tools as well.

1957
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:12,599
When I'm building out an initial

1958
00:55:12,599 --> 00:55:13,860
profile, I won't build a

1959
00:55:13,860 --> 00:55:15,739
profile. I'll use the AI tool to

1960
00:55:15,739 --> 00:55:16,699
help me build a profile.

1961
00:55:17,559 --> 00:55:18,780
So I'll say,

1962
00:55:19,489 --> 00:55:20,289
hey, Fieldmark,

1963
00:55:20,570 --> 00:55:23,389
I am farming at this location

1964
00:55:23,889 --> 00:55:25,969
with these crops,

1965
00:55:26,429 --> 00:55:28,050
with these soil types, here are

1966
00:55:28,050 --> 00:55:29,329
my soil characteristics, here

1967
00:55:29,329 --> 00:55:30,650
are my dominant weed species.

1968
00:55:31,869 --> 00:55:34,670
Help me build a profile that

1969
00:55:36,170 --> 00:55:38,670
describes my context that I can

1970
00:55:38,670 --> 00:55:39,989
use to train an AI tool.

1971
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:42,500
And you'll go back and forth,

1972
00:55:42,579 --> 00:55:43,900
you iterate half a dozen times,

1973
00:55:44,389 --> 00:55:45,250
and I end up with

1974
00:55:45,559 --> 00:55:48,059
usually as much as a 20 to a 30

1975
00:55:48,059 --> 00:55:49,760
-page document that describes my

1976
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:51,079
context in detail.

1977
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:53,840
These are the common weather

1978
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:54,640
conditions,

1979
00:55:54,780 --> 00:55:56,019
here's the climate, here's the

1980
00:55:56,019 --> 00:55:57,099
USDA growing zones,

1981
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:58,240
here's all this.

1982
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:00,179
And let the AI actually help

1983
00:56:00,179 --> 00:56:01,539
build out that context rather

1984
00:56:01,539 --> 00:56:02,340
than you trying to do it

1985
00:56:02,219 --> 00:56:03,880
yourself. And then you take that

1986
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:05,929
information and you upload it

1987
00:56:05,929 --> 00:56:06,730
into

1988
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:08,179
a project, put it into a

1989
00:56:08,179 --> 00:56:09,079
document, put it into that

1990
00:56:09,079 --> 00:56:09,880
project,

1991
00:56:10,130 --> 00:56:11,190
and now it

1992
00:56:11,599 --> 00:56:13,000
will constantly reference back

1993
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:14,659
to that training data set.

1994
00:56:15,119 --> 00:56:16,760
And you can constantly add to

1995
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:17,560
that and build it.

1996
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,429
And so what happens over time,

1997
00:56:20,559 --> 00:56:22,820
the information that you get

1998
00:56:22,820 --> 00:56:24,920
back becomes ever more

1999
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,619
customized and focused on your

2000
00:56:27,619 --> 00:56:29,440
specific operation as you keep

2001
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:30,380
building and as you keep

2002
00:56:30,380 --> 00:56:31,800
training it. And so the quality

2003
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:32,800
of the answers and the quality

2004
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:33,900
of the information you get back

2005
00:56:33,900 --> 00:56:34,700
out of it

2006
00:56:35,090 --> 00:56:36,510
becomes very valuable.

2007
00:56:36,989 --> 00:56:38,570
And the reality is what I'm

2008
00:56:38,570 --> 00:56:39,449
talking about in terms of

2009
00:56:39,449 --> 00:56:41,269
training these AIs to work for

2010
00:56:41,269 --> 00:56:42,070
you

2011
00:56:42,019 --> 00:56:45,300
is this can be as

2012
00:56:45,300 --> 00:56:46,100
simple as

2013
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:48,280
30 minute exchange back and

2014
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:50,719
forth. They are very good at

2015
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:52,539
actually identifying what

2016
00:56:52,539 --> 00:56:54,000
information would be valuable

2017
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:55,460
for them to understand your

2018
00:56:55,460 --> 00:56:56,260
context.

2019
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:58,080
Yeah.

2020
00:56:58,639 --> 00:57:00,599
Where I've used that similarly

2021
00:57:00,599 --> 00:57:01,900
is with this FarmFlow project.

2022
00:57:02,019 --> 00:57:02,880
I mentioned it's been grant

2023
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:03,680
funded.

2024
00:57:03,820 --> 00:57:04,960
I'm also not a grant writer.

2025
00:57:05,460 --> 00:57:07,579
So I've been using it to

2026
00:57:07,579 --> 00:57:09,820
apply for grants

2027
00:57:10,519 --> 00:57:12,019
by giving it context.

2028
00:57:12,460 --> 00:57:14,119
So like sharing previous grant

2029
00:57:14,119 --> 00:57:15,559
proposals or previous language,

2030
00:57:16,300 --> 00:57:17,460
previous

2031
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:19,760
documents, the request for

2032
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:20,560
proposals,

2033
00:57:20,940 --> 00:57:21,880
you know, pitch decks, kind of

2034
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:22,680
all,

2035
00:57:22,980 --> 00:57:24,380
everything. And I've created a

2036
00:57:24,380 --> 00:57:25,400
project in Chattopadhyay.

2037
00:57:25,559 --> 00:57:26,360
And then that,

2038
00:57:26,380 --> 00:57:28,139
you know, when I get off the

2039
00:57:28,139 --> 00:57:29,300
farm and tuck

2040
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:31,119
kiddos into bed, and then it's

2041
00:57:31,119 --> 00:57:32,699
time to start working on a grant

2042
00:57:32,699 --> 00:57:34,579
at night, and I've got two brain

2043
00:57:34,579 --> 00:57:35,380
cells left.

2044
00:57:36,420 --> 00:57:38,139
It's been really helpful to kind

2045
00:57:38,139 --> 00:57:38,940
of

2046
00:57:39,079 --> 00:57:40,300
be that partner,

2047
00:57:40,619 --> 00:57:41,739
to kind of take it to that next

2048
00:57:41,739 --> 00:57:42,539
level.

2049
00:57:43,019 --> 00:57:44,079
One of the projects that I did,

2050
00:57:44,139 --> 00:57:45,679
just to give you an example,

2051
00:57:47,869 --> 00:57:49,230
this is actually one of the

2052
00:57:49,230 --> 00:57:50,369
projects that I did that I then

2053
00:57:50,369 --> 00:57:52,110
refused to ever use again,

2054
00:57:52,590 --> 00:57:55,739
just from a principle to

2055
00:57:55,739 --> 00:57:56,539
perspective.

2056
00:57:57,480 --> 00:57:58,519
I trained

2057
00:57:59,659 --> 00:58:01,079
an instance

2058
00:58:01,559 --> 00:58:02,960
of Gemini

2059
00:58:05,489 --> 00:58:07,969
to sound like Jon Kempf, to talk

2060
00:58:07,969 --> 00:58:09,530
like Jon Kempf, and to write

2061
00:58:09,530 --> 00:58:10,489
like Jon Kempf.

2062
00:58:10,670 --> 00:58:12,050
I said, OK, here are

2063
00:58:12,429 --> 00:58:14,610
50, here are the transcripts

2064
00:58:14,610 --> 00:58:16,530
from 50 webinars and dozens of

2065
00:58:16,530 --> 00:58:17,330
podcasts.

2066
00:58:18,210 --> 00:58:20,409
Here are a long list of articles

2067
00:58:20,409 --> 00:58:21,789
that I've written and blog posts

2068
00:58:21,789 --> 00:58:22,590
that I've written.

2069
00:58:22,329 --> 00:58:23,650
And so I trained it on all this

2070
00:58:23,650 --> 00:58:24,450
and I said,

2071
00:58:24,869 --> 00:58:26,690
analyze all

2072
00:58:27,489 --> 00:58:28,289
of this

2073
00:58:28,309 --> 00:58:30,730
and write a, I forget what the

2074
00:58:30,730 --> 00:58:33,150
proper term is, but kind

2075
00:58:33,719 --> 00:58:36,300
of a brand tone document of how

2076
00:58:36,300 --> 00:58:37,900
does Jon's

2077
00:58:38,309 --> 00:58:41,230
language and his expressions and

2078
00:58:41,230 --> 00:58:43,190
write a document to train an AI

2079
00:58:43,190 --> 00:58:45,880
so that it speaks and writes

2080
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:46,960
like John Kempf.

2081
00:58:47,340 --> 00:58:49,420
And it generated like a 50 -page

2082
00:58:49,420 --> 00:58:51,519
document with this extensive

2083
00:58:51,519 --> 00:58:53,320
detail about the tones and the

2084
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:54,619
type of voice inflections.

2085
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:56,719
It analyzed all of it, wrote up

2086
00:58:56,719 --> 00:58:57,519
this document,

2087
00:58:58,250 --> 00:59:00,639
and I provided the document as a

2088
00:59:00,639 --> 00:59:02,000
training tool, as a training

2089
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:02,800
set.

2090
00:59:03,789 --> 00:59:05,829
And it came back and I said, all

2091
00:59:05,829 --> 00:59:06,630
right,

2092
00:59:06,420 --> 00:59:08,000
behave as John Kempf and write

2093
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:09,539
an article on quorum sensing.

2094
00:59:10,889 --> 00:59:11,989
And I looked at that article

2095
00:59:11,989 --> 00:59:13,329
like, this is freaky.

2096
00:59:14,090 --> 00:59:15,269
It's done.

2097
00:59:17,489 --> 00:59:18,289
Well,

2098
00:59:18,869 --> 00:59:19,670
it's

2099
00:59:19,409 --> 00:59:20,469
not that

2100
00:59:21,230 --> 00:59:22,429
my

2101
00:59:22,869 --> 00:59:25,570
concern was not that it sounded

2102
00:59:25,570 --> 00:59:26,670
too much like me.

2103
00:59:27,739 --> 00:59:29,000
What I was concerned about is

2104
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:30,320
that if you start using it,

2105
00:59:30,420 --> 00:59:32,159
tools, it's just very similar to

2106
00:59:32,849 --> 00:59:34,329
once

2107
00:59:34,679 --> 00:59:37,139
maps apps were prevalent on

2108
00:59:37,139 --> 00:59:38,659
every phone, people lost their

2109
00:59:38,659 --> 00:59:39,480
sense of navigation.

2110
00:59:40,710 --> 00:59:41,510
They can no longer,

2111
00:59:41,469 --> 00:59:42,730
people generally, there are

2112
00:59:42,730 --> 00:59:43,730
exceptions of course, but people

2113
00:59:43,730 --> 00:59:44,869
generally no longer have a good

2114
00:59:44,869 --> 00:59:45,829
sense of direction or a good

2115
00:59:45,829 --> 00:59:46,869
ability to navigate.

2116
00:59:47,860 --> 00:59:50,199
And you start using tools like

2117
00:59:50,199 --> 00:59:52,079
that for writing articles and so

2118
00:59:52,079 --> 00:59:53,420
forth, you'll start losing your

2119
00:59:53,420 --> 00:59:55,119
ability to think critically.

2120
00:59:55,889 --> 00:59:57,710
And so there are

2121
00:59:59,739 --> 01:00:00,960
ways I think

2122
01:00:01,500 --> 01:00:03,159
we need to think carefully about

2123
01:00:03,159 --> 01:00:04,639
how do we use these tools like

2124
01:00:04,889 --> 01:00:06,190
in the way that we've built

2125
01:00:06,190 --> 01:00:07,750
FieldArc, I've thought a lot

2126
01:00:07,750 --> 01:00:09,329
about how do we use this to not

2127
01:00:09,329 --> 01:00:10,610
replace people, but to make

2128
01:00:10,610 --> 01:00:11,410
people better.

2129
01:00:12,409 --> 01:00:14,570
And there's only so much of that

2130
01:00:14,570 --> 01:00:16,469
we can do as a tool designer.

2131
01:00:17,349 --> 01:00:18,550
Another part of that has to be

2132
01:00:18,550 --> 01:00:20,130
picked up by the tool user and

2133
01:00:20,130 --> 01:00:21,409
the tool user has to say, all

2134
01:00:21,409 --> 01:00:22,210
right,

2135
01:00:22,239 --> 01:00:24,519
I want this to help me do the

2136
01:00:24,519 --> 01:00:26,059
things that I'm not great at.

2137
01:00:26,159 --> 01:00:27,639
It can help really expedite

2138
01:00:27,639 --> 01:00:29,300
research, for example, or to

2139
01:00:29,300 --> 01:00:30,320
learn things that I didn't

2140
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:31,120
already know.

2141
01:00:31,679 --> 01:00:32,920
But then when I learned those

2142
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:34,260
things, there is still this

2143
01:00:34,260 --> 01:00:36,480
critical thought process that we

2144
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:37,880
need to engage in personally,

2145
01:00:38,179 --> 01:00:39,539
because if we don't, we're going

2146
01:00:39,539 --> 01:00:40,340
to lose it.

2147
01:00:42,030 --> 01:00:44,210
Your comments are making me

2148
01:00:44,210 --> 01:00:45,070
think about one of the tools

2149
01:00:45,070 --> 01:00:45,870
we're building.

2150
01:00:46,130 --> 01:00:47,369
So for FarmFlow, we have the

2151
01:00:47,369 --> 01:00:48,469
whiteboard tool.

2152
01:00:48,550 --> 01:00:49,350
We call that Grow.

2153
01:00:49,909 --> 01:00:51,170
We have a tool that we call

2154
01:00:51,170 --> 01:00:52,590
Track, which is just managing

2155
01:00:52,590 --> 01:00:53,630
paperwork. So your bill of

2156
01:00:53,630 --> 01:00:54,430
lading is your grain inventory.

2157
01:00:54,809 --> 01:00:56,550
We use AI lightly there, just

2158
01:00:56,550 --> 01:00:57,369
image recognition.

2159
01:00:57,710 --> 01:00:58,630
You can take a photo of your

2160
01:00:58,630 --> 01:01:00,309
grain contract, extracts it.

2161
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:01,780
can generate bill waiting

2162
01:01:01,780 --> 01:01:02,940
numbers. Pretty simple stuff.

2163
01:01:03,670 --> 01:01:05,090
The thing I'm excited about

2164
01:01:05,849 --> 01:01:07,949
is the feature we're calling

2165
01:01:07,949 --> 01:01:08,889
FarmFlow Guide,

2166
01:01:09,250 --> 01:01:10,389
which is basically a

2167
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:12,320
SOP

2168
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:14,159
generator, standard operating

2169
01:01:14,159 --> 01:01:15,599
procedure generator, or best

2170
01:01:15,599 --> 01:01:16,400
practice generator.

2171
01:01:17,099 --> 01:01:18,480
If I was to say, John, I want

2172
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:19,280
you to go

2173
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:20,820
plant corn,

2174
01:01:21,559 --> 01:01:24,460
and you would have a particular

2175
01:01:24,460 --> 01:01:25,590
way of planting corn at your

2176
01:01:25,590 --> 01:01:26,590
farm. Maybe it's based on your

2177
01:01:26,590 --> 01:01:27,610
soil type, maybe it's based on

2178
01:01:27,610 --> 01:01:28,469
the equipment you have,

2179
01:01:29,050 --> 01:01:30,130
maybe the variety you have.

2180
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:31,820
And the way that I would plant

2181
01:01:31,820 --> 01:01:32,780
corn at my farm is going to be

2182
01:01:32,780 --> 01:01:33,920
wildly different, even if we

2183
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:34,720
have the same piece of

2184
01:01:34,579 --> 01:01:35,380
equipment.

2185
01:01:35,630 --> 01:01:37,730
And every farm is unique in this

2186
01:01:37,730 --> 01:01:38,530
way.

2187
01:01:38,940 --> 01:01:40,219
And so what we want to do is

2188
01:01:40,219 --> 01:01:42,219
build a tool that partners with

2189
01:01:42,219 --> 01:01:43,360
the farmer to capture the

2190
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:44,160
processes,

2191
01:01:44,219 --> 01:01:46,659
to document the on -farm best

2192
01:01:46,659 --> 01:01:47,460
practices.

2193
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:49,639
And the purpose behind this is

2194
01:01:49,639 --> 01:01:50,960
to do a couple of things.

2195
01:01:52,179 --> 01:01:54,639
to capture and help retain the

2196
01:01:54,639 --> 01:01:57,039
knowledge of wisdom from

2197
01:01:57,039 --> 01:01:58,119
retiring farmers.

2198
01:01:59,090 --> 01:02:00,610
Farmers are like great

2199
01:02:00,610 --> 01:02:01,650
innovators, great thinkers.

2200
01:02:02,460 --> 01:02:03,860
They're not necessarily great

2201
01:02:03,860 --> 01:02:04,780
teachers, or they don't think

2202
01:02:04,780 --> 01:02:05,960
about themselves as great

2203
01:02:06,690 --> 01:02:07,490
teachers.

2204
01:02:07,510 --> 01:02:08,889
And so this tool can be kind of

2205
01:02:08,889 --> 01:02:09,690
the

2206
01:02:10,199 --> 01:02:11,400
partner to help the farmer

2207
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:12,200
become a teacher,

2208
01:02:12,750 --> 01:02:14,130
to teach next generation.

2209
01:02:14,969 --> 01:02:16,929
It can help a farmer scale.

2210
01:02:17,250 --> 01:02:19,510
So to train employees,

2211
01:02:20,050 --> 01:02:20,850
interns,

2212
01:02:20,829 --> 01:02:21,829
whatever it might be, that you

2213
01:02:21,829 --> 01:02:22,929
can take your practices

2214
01:02:23,900 --> 01:02:26,400
and give these SOPs to your

2215
01:02:26,809 --> 01:02:28,590
employees or your team to help

2216
01:02:28,590 --> 01:02:29,650
them learn and they can interact

2217
01:02:29,650 --> 01:02:30,610
with it rather than just a

2218
01:02:30,610 --> 01:02:31,410
static document.

2219
01:02:31,550 --> 01:02:32,369
It's an SOP that you can

2220
01:02:32,369 --> 01:02:33,170
interact with.

2221
01:02:33,909 --> 01:02:34,849
But the part that I'm most

2222
01:02:34,849 --> 01:02:36,329
excited about for FarmFlow Guide

2223
01:02:36,329 --> 01:02:37,130
is that I think it could

2224
01:02:37,130 --> 01:02:38,449
actually be an unlock for

2225
01:02:38,449 --> 01:02:39,250
adoption.

2226
01:02:39,590 --> 01:02:40,849
So more

2227
01:02:41,449 --> 01:02:43,489
than an incentive payment,

2228
01:02:43,909 --> 01:02:45,110
more than an inspiring

2229
01:02:46,420 --> 01:02:47,559
video that you might watch,

2230
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:49,239
if a farmer is going to adopt a

2231
01:02:49,239 --> 01:02:50,539
new practice, it's probably

2232
01:02:50,539 --> 01:02:52,019
because they see their neighbor

2233
01:02:52,019 --> 01:02:53,639
doing it. They see somebody that

2234
01:02:53,639 --> 01:02:55,300
they know or have contacts

2235
01:02:55,300 --> 01:02:56,559
that's similar to theirs doing

2236
01:02:56,559 --> 01:02:57,360
something different.

2237
01:02:58,039 --> 01:02:59,139
Farmers trust farmers.

2238
01:02:59,739 --> 01:03:01,699
When I think about adoption of

2239
01:03:01,699 --> 01:03:03,079
organic practices or gendered

2240
01:03:03,079 --> 01:03:05,000
practices on my own farm, it's

2241
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:06,599
anything that we've adopted or

2242
01:03:07,260 --> 01:03:08,060
brought on to our farm.

2243
01:03:08,019 --> 01:03:09,019
It's probably because I've seen

2244
01:03:09,019 --> 01:03:09,900
another farmer do it

2245
01:03:09,900 --> 01:03:10,700
successfully,

2246
01:03:11,079 --> 01:03:12,780
or they've shared an idea or

2247
01:03:12,780 --> 01:03:13,580
concept.

2248
01:03:13,579 --> 01:03:14,579
Maybe it was leaning over the

2249
01:03:14,579 --> 01:03:15,820
back of a pickup truck at a

2250
01:03:15,820 --> 01:03:17,420
field day and we were swapping

2251
01:03:17,420 --> 01:03:18,460
ideas on cultivators.

2252
01:03:19,559 --> 01:03:22,889
But we want to use an AI model

2253
01:03:22,889 --> 01:03:24,309
that's trained to think like

2254
01:03:24,690 --> 01:03:25,490
a coach,

2255
01:03:25,710 --> 01:03:27,369
to think like an extension

2256
01:03:27,369 --> 01:03:28,170
educator,

2257
01:03:28,289 --> 01:03:30,130
and help document the

2258
01:03:30,500 --> 01:03:31,500
practices that are on that

2259
01:03:31,500 --> 01:03:33,500
individual's farm, and then

2260
01:03:33,500 --> 01:03:34,900
create these SOPs that can

2261
01:03:34,900 --> 01:03:36,059
either be used internally or

2262
01:03:36,059 --> 01:03:37,179
externally to

2263
01:03:39,329 --> 01:03:41,130
adapt and adopt new practices.

2264
01:03:41,750 --> 01:03:42,750
So we're calling this thing Farm

2265
01:03:42,750 --> 01:03:44,389
Flow Guide just in the early,

2266
01:03:44,449 --> 01:03:45,630
early stages. So we're working

2267
01:03:45,630 --> 01:03:46,909
with the same set of farmers.

2268
01:03:48,159 --> 01:03:49,579
We're really wrestling right now

2269
01:03:49,579 --> 01:03:50,380
with the

2270
01:03:50,719 --> 01:03:51,900
data protection.

2271
01:03:52,119 --> 01:03:53,300
That's an unanswered question

2272
01:03:53,300 --> 01:03:54,100
for me.

2273
01:03:54,579 --> 01:03:56,079
We're spending time talking with

2274
01:03:56,079 --> 01:03:56,880
experts in the field.

2275
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:57,680
They kind of think about how we

2276
01:03:57,579 --> 01:03:58,380
protect

2277
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:00,739
this data because we

2278
01:04:01,079 --> 01:04:03,199
don't want to just train a model

2279
01:04:03,199 --> 01:04:04,960
and then get that extracted,

2280
01:04:05,059 --> 01:04:06,239
that value in that process.

2281
01:04:06,610 --> 01:04:08,349
that's intimate and important,

2282
01:04:08,550 --> 01:04:09,489
and really the intellectual

2283
01:04:09,489 --> 01:04:10,469
property of that individual

2284
01:04:10,469 --> 01:04:12,349
farmer. So that's something that

2285
01:04:12,349 --> 01:04:13,289
I don't have good answers to

2286
01:04:13,289 --> 01:04:14,090
yet.

2287
01:04:14,110 --> 01:04:15,570
But we're thinking about that

2288
01:04:15,570 --> 01:04:18,829
SOP guide tool

2289
01:04:18,829 --> 01:04:20,530
as kind of an unlock

2290
01:04:20,900 --> 01:04:23,300
for farm flow and for adopting

2291
01:04:23,300 --> 01:04:25,019
new practices in our context.

2292
01:04:25,199 --> 01:04:26,360
So that's, to

2293
01:04:28,019 --> 01:04:30,059
your point about the tool and

2294
01:04:30,059 --> 01:04:31,320
the user of the tool, I think

2295
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:32,120
this is like

2296
01:04:32,500 --> 01:04:34,320
the next level for us as we

2297
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:35,120
think about AI.

2298
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:38,160
Well,

2299
01:04:38,019 --> 01:04:39,260
it's certainly a very rapidly

2300
01:04:39,260 --> 01:04:40,719
evolving and rapidly iterating

2301
01:04:40,719 --> 01:04:41,519
space.

2302
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:44,460
And simply entering into the AI

2303
01:04:44,460 --> 01:04:45,679
space means that you've entered

2304
01:04:45,679 --> 01:04:47,039
into a race and you'd better be

2305
01:04:47,039 --> 01:04:48,280
prepared to move very rapidly.

2306
01:04:48,599 --> 01:04:49,400
Because

2307
01:04:49,610 --> 01:04:52,730
the capabilities of these tools

2308
01:04:53,010 --> 01:04:53,810
are

2309
01:04:54,599 --> 01:04:55,860
already today,

2310
01:04:57,820 --> 01:04:58,620
it's

2311
01:05:02,639 --> 01:05:04,079
There's not a good way for me to

2312
01:05:04,079 --> 01:05:05,780
quantify it for a general

2313
01:05:05,780 --> 01:05:07,300
audience, a farming audience, of

2314
01:05:07,300 --> 01:05:09,300
how rapidly improving these

2315
01:05:09,300 --> 01:05:11,380
tools are in their mathematical

2316
01:05:11,380 --> 01:05:12,780
capabilities, in their logic

2317
01:05:12,780 --> 01:05:13,580
capabilities.

2318
01:05:13,659 --> 01:05:16,340
but there is

2319
01:05:16,719 --> 01:05:18,139
such rapid improvement.

2320
01:05:18,239 --> 01:05:19,400
What I can say is

2321
01:05:20,119 --> 01:05:22,719
you cannot look at a tool

2322
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:27,079
such as, let's say, Gemini or

2323
01:05:27,079 --> 01:05:30,190
ChatGPT or Grok, you cannot look

2324
01:05:30,190 --> 01:05:31,969
at a tool six months ago and

2325
01:05:31,969 --> 01:05:32,889
have tested it,

2326
01:05:33,340 --> 01:05:34,140
say,

2327
01:05:34,340 --> 01:05:36,559
okay, I'm going to upload this

2328
01:05:36,559 --> 01:05:37,960
type of data into it and I'm

2329
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:39,400
going to ask it to help me

2330
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:40,599
analyze it and come up with a

2331
01:05:40,599 --> 01:05:41,400
set of recommendations.

2332
01:05:42,150 --> 01:05:43,510
You cannot evaluate that tool

2333
01:05:43,510 --> 01:05:45,349
six months ago and say, oh, that

2334
01:05:45,349 --> 01:05:46,489
failed to give me anything

2335
01:05:46,489 --> 01:05:47,989
useful and therefore it's

2336
01:05:47,989 --> 01:05:49,269
worthless and I'm not going to

2337
01:05:49,269 --> 01:05:50,070
bother using it again.

2338
01:05:50,610 --> 01:05:51,909
If you test it again today,

2339
01:05:52,980 --> 01:05:55,659
it is going to be substantially

2340
01:05:55,659 --> 01:05:57,019
better than it was six months

2341
01:05:57,019 --> 01:05:57,820
ago.

2342
01:05:57,880 --> 01:05:58,780
It's not not a little bit

2343
01:05:58,780 --> 01:05:59,580
better,

2344
01:05:59,519 --> 01:06:01,159
not five or 10 percent better.

2345
01:06:01,300 --> 01:06:03,099
I'm talking dramatically better.

2346
01:06:03,769 --> 01:06:04,969
And so the whole space is

2347
01:06:04,969 --> 01:06:06,449
iterating, evolving so rapidly

2348
01:06:06,449 --> 01:06:08,250
that even if you used it six

2349
01:06:08,250 --> 01:06:09,869
months ago or two months ago and

2350
01:06:09,869 --> 01:06:11,070
you said, oh, this thing wasn't

2351
01:06:11,070 --> 01:06:11,870
all that great,

2352
01:06:12,530 --> 01:06:13,670
you need to stay on top of it.

2353
01:06:14,059 --> 01:06:15,579
You need to look at it,

2354
01:06:16,239 --> 01:06:18,659
constantly be evaluating how you

2355
01:06:18,659 --> 01:06:19,460
are using it,

2356
01:06:19,869 --> 01:06:20,949
how to get the best results out

2357
01:06:20,949 --> 01:06:24,110
of it, because it is growing at

2358
01:06:24,110 --> 01:06:25,349
a rapid pace.

2359
01:06:30,539 --> 01:06:31,539
So that

2360
01:06:32,050 --> 01:06:33,710
means that all the users of

2361
01:06:33,710 --> 01:06:34,650
FieldLark are

2362
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:36,239
going to be continually

2363
01:06:36,239 --> 01:06:37,869
delighted with all the new

2364
01:06:37,869 --> 01:06:38,789
things that they get out of it

2365
01:06:38,789 --> 01:06:39,929
from a month -to -month basis,

2366
01:06:40,349 --> 01:06:41,690
and from FarmFlow perhaps as

2367
01:06:41,690 --> 01:06:42,490
well.

2368
01:06:42,539 --> 01:06:43,340
Yeah,

2369
01:06:44,070 --> 01:06:46,309
the trick

2370
01:06:48,380 --> 01:06:49,739
I think is to stay grounded in

2371
01:06:49,739 --> 01:06:50,539
it too.

2372
01:06:54,090 --> 01:06:56,150
Be aware to interact and then to

2373
01:06:56,150 --> 01:06:56,950
stay

2374
01:06:58,340 --> 01:06:59,820
connected to the bigger version.

2375
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:00,800
Absolutely.

2376
01:07:00,860 --> 01:07:01,660
The why.

2377
01:07:02,940 --> 01:07:04,059
And be very deliberate about

2378
01:07:04,059 --> 01:07:05,519
what you use it for and what you

2379
01:07:05,519 --> 01:07:06,340
don't use it for.

2380
01:07:08,699 --> 01:07:09,820
Wonderful. Well, Matthew, this

2381
01:07:09,820 --> 01:07:10,620
has been an awesome

2382
01:07:10,380 --> 01:07:11,599
conversation. We haven't gotten

2383
01:07:11,599 --> 01:07:12,820
to talk about the farming yet.

2384
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:17,099
But I want to be conscious of

2385
01:07:17,099 --> 01:07:18,119
your time and of all of our

2386
01:07:18,119 --> 01:07:18,920
listeners' time.

2387
01:07:18,679 --> 01:07:19,619
So thank you for being here.

2388
01:07:19,739 --> 01:07:20,539
Thank you for the work that

2389
01:07:20,460 --> 01:07:21,400
you're doing. And let's stay

2390
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:22,200
connected.

2391
01:07:22,420 --> 01:07:23,220
Thank you, John.

2392
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:24,260
I hope you have a good winter.

2393
01:07:24,460 --> 01:07:25,260
Stay warm.

2394
01:07:25,329 --> 01:07:26,130
Thank you.

2395
01:07:26,010 --> 01:07:26,810
Bye.