William Curb: Welcome to Hacking Your ADHD. I'm your host, William Kerb, and I have ADHD. On this podcast, I dig into the tools, tactics, and best practices to help you work with your ADHD brain. Hey, team, this week I'm talking with Jamie Shapiro, ADHD coach, founder of Silver Linings Transitions, and host of the Grandma Has ADHD podcast. Jamie has also recently published her book, This Explains So Much, which dives into the world of undiagnosed ADHD in people over 50. Jamie brings a wealth of experience from her work helping older adults downsize and organize their lives.
In our conversation, we dig into what aging looks like with ADHD, from memory changes to social isolation, and how curiosity, compassion, and the power of community can make a huge difference. We get into the challenges of different stages of life, how ADHD can be mistaken for dementia, and what it means to build understanding across generations. I think this is definitely an episode for everyone, as no matter how you slice it, we're all going to be facing these issues someday. And because of the genetic nature of ADHD, you likely already have someone in your life dealing with some of these issues.
If you'd like to follow along the show notes page, you can find that at hackingyouradhd.com/256. All right, keep on listening to find out how to prepare future you to thrive with ADHD at any age. All right, well, it's great to have you here with us today. And I was wondering if you could just start off by telling us a little bit about yourself.
Jamie Shapiro: Gosh, that's a hard question for someone with ADHD a little, a little bit about myself. So I am Jamie Shapiro, and I am the host of the Grandma Has ADHD podcast. And I've written a book that has recently come out that is called This Explains So Much. It's Understanding Undiagnosed ADHD for those who have too much, feel too much, or have been told they are too much. And I'm very clear that it's undiagnosed ADHD, but it's for people over 50s, specifically women who were, you know, under the belief that ADHD was only the hyperactive little boy that we would outgrow. And so you have a whole generation of people who were not diagnosed and how I got into the whole ADHD conversation.
So I started my own business in San Diego called Silver Lining Transitions as a senior move management and home organizing company. Back in 2014, in 2015, my oldest child came to me insisting that they be evaluated for ADHD. And, you know, I had a hyperactive little brother who had to be put on Ritalin in the 80s to be in the classroom. And I said, you don't have ADHD, you've been reading since you were three years old, because I couldn't sit still to read until second grade. So, you know, just like a lot of people were in the psychiatrist's office, they're asking a series of questions. And I looked at the psychiatrist as I'm answering the questions for Will. And I'm like, I'm answering more yeses for me. Do I have ADHD?
Because again, it's the hyperactive little boy. And so at that time, I am starting my own business. I have three children and I'm going through a divorce. So I'm like, okay, I'm 45 years old, I have ADHD. Okay, it doesn't matter.
Like, I'm here I am, I've started a business, I graduated college with high honors, why does it matter? But it wasn't until I realized a little less than two years ago that my 77-year-old mother had ADHD that I jumped into the ADHD space and became an ADHD coach and brought in the work that I was doing, working with seniors who were decluttering and downsiding. Now understanding, looking at a lot of it and realizing they probably had undiagnosed ADHD, which was contributing to the clutter and the decision fatigue and deferring the big projects. And it's just changed my whole world understanding the impact of ADHD.
William Curb: I think this is such an interesting topic to get into because as we were talking about before, this is something that everyone's going to age into. Like, you don't get to just not age. Even though time feels very amyophoresant and doesn't feel like it exists for us, it still happens.
Jamie Shapiro: Right. And you know, we with our now and not now, right? A lot of people with ADHD are not looking at what it's going to mean to hopefully retire with ADHD, but also aging and the challenges of aging with, by the way, cognitive decline that's normal for a neurotypical. And now you bring in some ADHD into the mix. And we were talking about my topic at the International ADHD Conference is for seniors and future seniors, because hopefully all of us with ADHD will one day be seniors with ADHD. Yeah.
William Curb: I mean, we do have like the lower life expectancy with all that and stuff. But even with that, we're going to get older.
Jamie Shapiro: And yeah, I think there's this misconception that we have a lower life expectancy because of our ADHD, but it's because of our choices that we make with ADHD. Okay, I just wanted to make sure.
William Curb: Yeah. I think that's a fantastic caveat there because, yeah, it's the like, the conscientiousness part of ADHD where we're not really, you know, if we're not taking care of ourselves because of ADHD, that's going to have a big impact. Correct.
Jamie Shapiro: As it does in regular aging, you know, not sleeping properly, not eating properly, not moving your body, but we also have the distractibility factor. So I mean, listen, if you had seen any of my cars, you know, before I even knew I had ADHD, they have dings on them. And I've had a few car accidents. And, you know, that's an ADHD link to, you know, a shorter life expectancy, among other reasons.
William Curb: Yeah, there's so many factors that go into it. And it's just like, oh, yeah, your ADHD just adds on to how these things can build up. And this is making me think about a question that I've been pondering for this couple of weeks recently because of a post I saw online asking like, you know, does ADHD get harder as you get older? And I was like, this is a really interesting question because yes and no is kind of how I view it.
Jamie Shapiro: So when you host a podcast and you know this, you get to talk to industry experts and you learn so much more. And so I had Jeff Copper dig coaching on my podcast and he came up with and I'm going to butcher the name, so I'm not even going to try it. But it's something paradox. And he basically says that when you have ADHD, you like to like to process verbally, you like to bounce ideas off of another person. And, you know, it helps you plan your day. And when you are, say, a senior, then, you know, you probably don't have children at home, you may not be working, you may or may not have a spouse.
And if you're living alone, you don't have that other person who you can bounce ideas off of. And then you also are impacted by social isolation, which isn't good for any of us, you know, and then you do have the normal cognitive decline. So in that way, I would say, you know, ADHD, you know, does work against us as we age.
But on the flip side, we're naturally curious and curiosity is said to extend our life because we are more engaged with other people, you know, we're always learning. So, you know, it's both exactly what you said, it's both.
William Curb: Yeah. And because we're like, we're facing different challenges. Like my ADHD is so different from in my 20s versus now when I'm like entering my 40s, I have vastly different life problems. And so then the way my ADHD manifests is very different. And there's very different consequences where I'm like, oh, I need to make sure I'm like remembering all these school things and doing all these things for my kids versus, you know, in the 20s, where I'm like, well, I can kind of get away with a lot of that stuff where I'm not late to things. And that doesn't work as well in my 40s. And that needs to be a war of a focus.
Jamie Shapiro: And I will also say for women, you know, that perimenopause, when our, you know, because of estrogen being pro-cognitive, I see a lot of women, you know, who say that they totally held it together until they got to that point where, you know, the estrogen and the lack of really impacted them. In fact, I heard something that is so fascinating. I don't know if you've heard this before, but that they, I've heard that the Salem witch trials, if you look back to the Salem witch trials, the age that those women would have been persecuted for not being able to follow Puritan values and sit still and be in church quietly was around the age of 40. And what happens to women around the age of 40?
William Curb: I took an entire class about the Salem witch trials. So I read like four or five books. I don't remember a lot of them, but I remember them like there's just so many theories about what was going on there.
Jamie Shapiro: Right. Well, if you go to AI or, you know, just ask Chad or Claude, you know, what traits in the people who were persecuted during the Salem witch trials are consistent with ADHD and you'll be like blown away.
William Curb: Yeah, I'm sure because it's one of those things where historically like ADHD has been like this outside group because we are doing things differently. And it's still, even now, people have a lot of trouble integrating completely with neurotypical people because we often view the world differently and we don't want to, we have, you know, stuff where we are kind of anti-authoritarianism and being like, yeah, that authority, I don't, why are they in charge?
I don't get it. And challenging that can see being a big factor in people being like, well, you used to be so submissive and now you're talking it back at me. Well, that must be the devil.
Jamie Shapiro: You know, they used to kill people who had ADHD because they thought that they, you know, they didn't realize that it was, you know, a brain wiring. They thought they were possessed. And so I actually talk about that in my own book is the history of ADHD and, you know, when they called it minimal brain function and, you know, all of that before it was even hyperkinetic.
William Curb: Yeah, it's funny to see how people being like ADHD is a new thing. It's like, no, it's been around for quite a while. Yeah. Just because it called something different or even just not called something. Or not recognized.
Jamie Shapiro: And so many of us masked. But yeah, I actually was listening to Jay Shetty interview Dr. Daniel Iman. And that he actually was talking about how you could trace biblical references to ADHD, like people who were expressing ADHD traits back in biblical days. And, you know, I think of like, I personally think that I think we're brilliant. I think that, you know, we do have a different brain wiring.
But if you think back to caveman days, you know, when you had to have somebody scanning the environment to make sure that everything was safe for everybody else, who do you think they relied on?
William Curb: Yeah, absolutely. It's something where individualism with currently is hurting ADHD. But as a community, having people that are have their brains wired differently is a huge advantage as a community.
Jamie Shapiro: And corporations and, you know, everything to be able to connect things that other people don't see. And I never realized that was, you know, attributable to my ADHD. I was like, you know, I can make all these connections. I love the MacGyver reference that, you know, we sort of had that MacGyver brain where we could just like piece things together.
William Curb: And yeah, it's always been one of the things I've viewed as like, the biggest strength for ADHD is just this being able to see these connections that other people don't see. And it often feels so obvious to us around courses, do you things go together?
Jamie Shapiro: Like, why wouldn't that my boyfriend and I will watch a movie and I'll tell him what's going to happen. He's like, how did you know that? And I'm like, come on, you know, like, come on.
William Curb: The story wouldn't work if he did anything else happen. It would be a bad show.
Jamie Shapiro: And PS, I'm not only watching that movie, but I'm also playing my game because, you know, I can't just sit still and focus on the television. Yeah.
William Curb: Or, you know, doing the thing where I'm like, oh, I recognize that person. Where do I recognize them from? I'm pop up IMDb real quick. Then go down that rabbit hole. I'm like, oh, yeah, and they were also in this. And I do that a lot with my watching shows with my kids and being like, hey, that guy also voiced this other character that you know, and he does this and he's in Spider-Man and what?
Jamie Shapiro: I do that with age because now that I'm 55, you know, and I see these people and I want to figure out how, where they are in relation to my age and so I'm constantly looking up, you know, how old they were when they filmed and blah, blah, blah.
William Curb: Oh yeah. And it's one of the funny things with aging where you're like, oh my God, that person is young. How is, how are they playing an adult with kids now?
Jamie Shapiro: Uh-huh. Well, I think that to myself. I'm like, who are these people calling me mom? Like, you know, it just doesn't, because my oldest is 24.
William Curb: Yeah, I can imagine the width or like lack of seeing time being like, yeah, how did this happen? My oldest is 10. And I still like, I'm like, would she hit double digits? I was like, that's what?
Jamie Shapiro: My baby is a senior in high school and it is. It's just like a blink of an eye and I'm like, oh my, you know, just, yeah, it's crazy. And I don't think that's just an ADHD thing. I think that's as we have children and we're aging and we're just going through the, you know, all of the things in life, you know, it's sort of flying by. So I, you know, I can't speak for a neurotypical person because I am not, but I imagine that that's a similar experience.
William Curb: Yeah, I've definitely heard the, yeah, the, all the stuff of like, yeah, you only have your kids for 18 years and it flies by and so I'm like, kind of hope my kids are still going to be in my life after they turn 18, but you know, they will have their own lives and all that then. But so as we're talking about this, I am kind of wondering, are there like certain things you are seeing in like more seniors and just as you age, like different, so we talked earlier about like, you know, there's different challenges, but what are the, like, are there some commonalities of these differences in ADHD symptoms that you're seeing?
Jamie Shapiro: What's fascinating is that, you know, that when you have an interest in something that you sort of just focus on it. So I filter everything, you know, through the lens of aging with ADHD. So there, you know, Dr. David Goodman has said one in five memory care clinics are routinely screening for ADHD one in five. But if you look at the early symptoms of early onset dementia or the early stages of dementia, forgetting names, misplacing items, you know, short term memory issues, like what else is that?
Right. And so you do have people who are not correctly being diagnosed, you know, they think it's normal aging and no, it's actually ADHD. And I also think there is a word, and this is why I'm so passionate about it. There is a stage in life now identified as gerotranscendence. And, you know, Eric Erickson had his eight stages of life, he's a famous sociologist.
And when he and his wife got into their 80s, he realized that he had not really talked about the stage of life when we are reflecting on our lives and making peace with our past and making peace with our relationships. And if you've lived your entire life with undiagnosed ADHD or not realizing that so many of your challenges were ADHD, finding out that you have ADHD and putting the pieces together, I'm seeing with my own mom, our whole relationship has changed because I now understand that my mom really was doing the best that she could be doing.
And I honestly believe if I hadn't connected the dots that she had ADHD and realized that I was persecuting her, just like we persecute all of those people that would say, you know, why can't you get it together? It was really because she was never properly treated. And I do think that there's going to be a relief, but also a grief in not having those tools and that understanding.
William Curb: Oh yeah, absolutely. I've talked to so many people that were, you know, late in life diagnosed and there's just this like, what could have my life have been? Had I known? Could I have had, you know, better relationships? Could I have actually followed through with something if I could, you know, have been medicated and done all the things that would have made me so that I could have had that career that I really wanted?
Jamie Shapiro: Yeah, you know, I have to share this is a huge thing that hit me. So I was on a trip, I was presenting at a conference. I had not really seen my boyfriend for a week. I got back and he kind of picked a fight with me and actually believe it or not, it was about ADHD because I was giving advice to the stranger next to me on the airplane. You know, you write a book about the topic, you think you know the topic.
And so he is a scientist. And so we got into a fight and I did not sleep well that night because, you know, I am extra sensitive. So I of course start spinning them. We've been together five years. We own a home together, but I automatically start thinking, you know, what if, you know, we can't say, I mean, I take it down, you know, the doom spiral as you're nodding your head, you get it. And then I was talking to my mom because we've struggled in our relationship because I would say something to my mom and she would blow it out of proportion and I would get frustrated. And now I realize we're both doing it, you know?
William Curb: Yeah, and it's really hard to extend that grace to someone else when it hasn't been extended to you. And even though it's so important to do where you're like, oh, if I come at this with empathy, this is going to be, I mean, relationships are hard. But if you try it, go, hey, we're, me and my mom, we're on the same team.
It doesn't matter who's right. I want us to not fight through this. But this is, you know, it's hard to do that where you're like, but you're not doing it for me.
Jamie Shapiro: You know, and I will also say being raised by two ADHD parents who, by the way, were also raised by undiagnosed ADHD parents, you know, there is a lot of emotional dysregulation and parentification and, you know, that, that has passed down. And so the reality is, you know, as a child, you want better, you know, and as my mom wanted better.
And, you know, we had family that didn't have the capacity. So that also contributes to the dynamics that go on and why we do have such strange relationships and why it's understanding ADHD and extending that grace to them. And just realizing I'm doing the same thing my mom is doing in my relationships. And when you see it that way, transform is the big word, but it really is transformative.
William Curb: I was also just making me think about all the times where I'm like, seeing my wife do something and being like, you're being just like your mother, but I'm not going to tell you that because that's going to go bad for everyone involved here. That's what's happening here.
Jamie Shapiro: There's an expression you can be right or you can be happy. I actually said that to my boyfriend the other day. Did you really need to take it down to this level?
William Curb: Yeah, well, especially I mean, I do that with my wife and daughter where I'm like, oh, you guys you're fighting because you're being so alike right now. And you don't even realize it. And being like, hey, you guys need to just step back. Neither of you need to keep amping this up.
Jamie Shapiro: I'm going to give you some advice that you didn't ask for. I'm divorced, as a lot of people at ADHD, and I do realize the impact that my ADHD had on my first marriage. And, you know, if I had known what I know now, you know, things may have been different, but we did go to a therapist once we had separated because we were just fighting so much. And she said, you can't fight in your amygdala brain. So the best thing that you can do when you're amped up is to just say, hey, we're going to take a time out here. We're going to get back together in 30 minutes once we've both calmed down.
We're not going to leave the house, but we're going to leave and go to our own corners. And then if we're able to, you know, take it down and we're, you know, able to be calm, then we're going to go back to this situation. And if we're not, then we're going to postpone it, but we're going to agree to when the conversation is going to happen because, you know, people at ADHD, we don't like ambiguity.
I would imagine most people don't like ambiguity. So I thought that was amazing advice. You just cannot fight in your amygdala brain. And I know I actually have two daughters and a trans child. So I know what it's like with girls.
William Curb: It's a hard relationship. And I can't imagine how much harder it is when you have like that undiagnosed person in that relationship, too. We've all had that experience of people being like, why are you like this? And they had itself. And because I've had that thought with my kids where I'm like, why are you doing it like this? And I'm like, it's the ADHD. That's why you're doing this.
And then that changes the whole dynamic of like what I'm trying to get them to do. But if you can't do that next step, I can imagine just like there's so many bad emotions and thoughts that you can associate with like, oh, you're doing this to get at me or because you don't care or any of the other things that happens because of undiagnosed ADHD. So I think it's fantastic that so many older adults are getting diagnosed now because it was clearly not happening, even though it existed. I mean, like, I know growing up in the 80s, it was not diagnosed that often. And before then, it was probably just barely happened at all.
Jamie Shapiro: Well, or they called it minimal brain function. So the last thing that you wanted was to identify yourself and to even have the word disorder in the title. And then if you look at the silent generation, you know, there's a reason they're called silent. Like they don't talk about anything. They and my mother even shared with me that when she needed to go for therapy, my grandfather, you know, didn't want to hear about it, didn't want to know about it. And I am certain that my grandfather had ADHD as well.
And and he would he definitely had dysthymia and it was never addressed. And, you know, because there was a there was a stigma about it. And we're still working towards de-stigmatising it. But it's especially worse in older generations. And so a lot of them may not even go to get the help that they need or acknowledge it.
So and then but the people who are I think they are benefiting from it. I heard another guest of my podcast, Alan P. Brown, who is the ADD crusher, said that he had an 87 year old man in his audience who is shared that he had been diagnosed at 80 and said that it was the best seven years of his life.
William Curb: Well, that's yeah, very heartening to hear because so many people think what will mean like I've had this conversation with a number of people that were like, well, I'm, you know, I've lived this much of my life already without being diagnosed. What's the benefit of being diagnosed? That's a hard question to answer. But it being like, hey, I feel like knowing more about your brain and understanding why you do things is helpful.
Jamie Shapiro: Absolutely. I mean, it absolutely. I yeah, I can't I can't encourage enough. Were you at the last International Conference with Penholder-ness as the keynote? So I love the question. I always ask it on my podcast. I ask my guests if they would press the button to remember when he asks everybody, you know, would you press the button and not have ADHD? And I have yet to have a guest who would press the button.
William Curb: Yeah, it's an interesting thought. I mean, I don't I don't know what it would mean to not have ADHD as part of the problem.
Jamie Shapiro: How old were you when you were diagnosed? Twenty three. Oh, so you went your childhood without knowing. Yeah.
William Curb: Um, yeah, I was diagnosed with dyslexia. Um, as a kid at like very early on, I even like looked back and I had notes that I should be die be assessed for ADHD, but that was not followed up on apparently. But yeah, it was dyslexic. And so then I had in my 20s, I realized I had three siblings diagnosed with ADHD. So I was like, oh, I should probably get this checked.
Wow. It was like, oh, yeah, that and like getting diagnosed was like, yeah, that makes total sense based on my childhood. Like I was 100 percent the super hyperactive child that climbed everything and now have shifted more into the inattentive side of things.
Jamie Shapiro: Every single day I learn more and more about the impact of ADHD on my life. And, you know, so now I can reframe things and I can I'm on an airplane. I'm going to a conference and I've learned to protect future Jamie. And so whenever I make an appointment or I make a reservation, I put the details in my calendar so that I have the reservation number. I don't have to go looking for it.
If I go to a potluck, I know what I signed up to bring because I will inevitably forget. So I am literally on the runway. I look at my calendar to see where my hotel is and there is nothing in my calendar. And then I start panicking and going through and I'm literally like on the runway, panicking, looking through it, can't find a reservation. I even have an opportunity to call the hotel. They don't have a reservation, but I also don't have the time to process. So thankfully now I'm aware I call my my boyfriend and I'm like, I did not make a hotel reservation.
Can you do this for me? And so I wasn't beating myself. I wasn't embarrassed about it anymore. Like if that's just how my brain works. But I also know, again, to make sure that I'm putting those reservations in place. Or now I wear my smartwatch, which I swore up and down I was never going to wear. But now when I start to boil eggs, I don't like go to someone else's house and leave them on my stove.
William Curb: Yeah, absolutely. Just being like, oh yeah, just for mind being two minutes about the eggs.
Jamie Shapiro: Why would you not want to have those tools? And I used to always before I knew ADHD's impact, I'd be like, I'm definitely going to remember this. Look, I have this great idea come to me and I wouldn't write it down. And I'm like, oh, it's so good. Of course, I won't forget. You know, I forgot every time. Yeah.
William Curb: It's one of the things is like, oh, if it was important, I'd remember. It's like, no, that's not that's not how that works.
Jamie Shapiro: It's also helpful in relationships to have that understanding now, too. Like I said, I think not that my ADHD was the only reason that my marriage didn't work, but it definitely was a contributing factor to it. And so I'm learning now, you know, to go slower and to think of my partner, you know, and to when he needs to communicate with me, OK, I've got to, you know, sit still and give him that attention or say, hey, this isn't the time because now I recognize the challenges. So I definitely feel that I wouldn't have the relationship that I have now if I didn't have an understanding of my ADHD and its impact.
William Curb: Oh, 100 percent. It's so easy to either beat yourself up about things that you're like, maybe I don't care about this person because, you know, like there is the very much an ADHD system out of sight, out of mind that can happen with people, too. Where I've like, you know, like I'm going to go to the conference and I'm probably going to have days where I'm like, like see like eight o'clock. Oh, I can't call home at this point. And I've forgotten about my family for the entire day. Like never even occurred to me about them.
Jamie Shapiro: I don't know about you, but like I've had people on my podcast and I've interviewed and then I see them and I blank.
William Curb: Oh, 100 percent like there. It's it's a and it's so embarrassing where when they're like, oh, yeah. And I'm like, yeah, that's right. I used to play a lot of Ultimate Frisbee and I'd have like these pickup leagues that I would do and then someone's like, oh, yeah, we used to play together, you know, on that team through. I'm like, have I ever met you before?
I have zero. I don't remember that happening. Or wait, I played Ultimate Frisbee. Yeah. And it's just like, I'm like, I it's hard to explain that to someone that's not experiencing that because it's feels like so like such a foreign concept because even having it feels like, oh, I should I should be able to do this. And that's I mean, as we shouldn't we both know that we shouldn't be using.
Jamie Shapiro: So it's absolutely. I was going to say that.
William Curb: Yeah, it's hard to stop because your brain is like, no, this is this is how adults operate and it's not not not with ADHD.
Jamie Shapiro: So I have a question. Were you the person that did the presentation last year where you showed the pictures of a cluttered kitchen and then showed how you could declutter it? I heard you. That was good. I remembered. So I will come back in here even after that presentation.
William Curb: I was like, man, I could have done a much better job. And so I was like, you know what, this year I'm going to do good to do the same topic, but I'm going to freshen it up and make it like way better. And so far it's it's looking that way.
Jamie Shapiro: And no one's going to remember anyway. So there you go. I literally watch a movie that I swore I'd never watched before.
William Curb: But I was watching a show with my wife and I'm like, this seems kind of familiar. And then I'm like, yeah, you might like it. And I like popped it up. I'm like, I've watched this entire season of this already. I don't remember doing that. And it was only like, I'm like, oh, yeah, this reminds me of a plot of another show I watched.
Jamie Shapiro: I love talking to other people who get me. So if nothing else for no other reason to know that you have ADHD and oh, and find your tribe. So my mom, so my mom was amazing in letting me come into her home and take pictures of her clutter. And, you know, one of the things I used to tell people because so as a you know, I own this company, Silver Lining Transitions, and I will go around and do downsizing presentations and decluttering presentations before I had any knowledge of the ADHD. I started doing this and I would tell people, you know, I come from a family with hoarding disorder.
That's literally what I would say. And when I realized that my mom had ADHD, I called my mom. I said, mom, I have some good news for you. I don't think you have hoarding disorder. I think you have ADHD. And so she let me into her home and she let me take pictures of all of the piles and the stacks, you know, in the unopened packages and the I'm going to do this someday unfinished projects, which was really brave. And I am so proud of my mom because there's a stigma and a shame.
And a lot of us don't invite people into our home. So my mom is she lives in a 55 and over community and she has this woman who's talking about her art. And my mom's like, I would really like to see it. And the woman says, yeah, I can't have you in my home. I'm a little embarrassed. And my mom's like, oh, let me show you pictures. And so because of that, now my mom can have relationships with people where she gets to be her authentic self and, you know, laugh about it rather than like, like contribute to more social isolation.
William Curb: I have a friend I do some like web polls with and we'll joke around, but be like, like, you know, with our webcams, we look very put together. And like we have this nice background and we're like, yeah, and we're like, watch, if I just shift my camera like 10 inches to the right, you're going to see the mess. And we both do it in hilarious. It does your because you're like, oh, yeah, it looks amazing back there. And you're like, the zoom room. Yeah, that's just the zoom zone. Just all. Yeah. It's it's it I can make one wall really look put together, but I can't do an entire room.
Jamie Shapiro: You know, it's so funny. I had pictures taken for my website and my coaching and my book. And one of the pictures I had, I had two desks in my office. I had one for my manager and one for me. And one side was my podcast, you know, so it looked really, really, really good. And the desk with meat and tidy in the shelf looked great. And the other side was ADHD. So when the photographer came in to shoot pictures, she actually took one picture of me sitting in the room split. You know, like, this is the reality.
William Curb: Yeah, that's very much like my office right now, where I'm like, this here looks like I've got things fairly well put together. But if you look at the floor, not so much, there's boxes and papers and everything. And I'm like, it's can be hard to get past that shame of like, oh, yeah, I could clean that up. But I'm not. And I didn't.
Jamie Shapiro: And I've actually I used to do my podcast interview in my while she was 16 at the time at her in her room, because she was the only one that had good, consistent internet connection. And in the beginning, I would because she basically has piles of clothing. She's a couch that's just a second dresser, you know. And so I would put the virtual screen on it. And then finally, I'm like, hey, I am talking to an audience of people with ADHD. Like, I need to be real. And so I think a lot of us were either the perfectionists who have so much anxiety and we feel like everything has to be so neat and tidy.
And, you know, and that's I wouldn't want to be that if I'm being honest, because I think that that's even more pressure. And so when I myself, you get to be yourself. And then we actually can have a conversation where the masks come off and we can breathe.
William Curb: And, you know, absolutely, it's you know, there's like the same side of like, yeah, I want to be presenting this side, but I also don't want to pretend like the other sides don't exist. One question I want to hit before we end is I'm sure a lot of people are like, yes, this sounds like my mom or my dad, and they're definitely there, but I don't know how to talk to them about the fact that maybe they should try and get a diagnosis. And those when do you have advice for people that, you know, are kind of being like, hey, maybe I should try and get that conversation going.
Jamie Shapiro: Oh, definitely. Well, first of all, my book, that's exactly who I've wrote it for is and it's very much my story and people can identify and relate to that. So that's just a little plug for the book. But in terms of having that conversation, because I actually interviewed Dr. Kathleen Madoe, who wrote the first book on aging with ADHD, and there aren't many out there. And I asked her, you know, if you see it, should you say something? And she said, you know, you've got to be delicate with it. Some people are open to it and some people are not open. But I think that I always lead with the positives.
And so when I am approaching somebody and let me say this, within my family, it's not an issue because we're all very open about it now. So but I'm going to just say talking to somebody maybe I don't know as well, is to say, you know, people with ADHD, we, you know, tend to have very, very strong social justice conviction. We want the world to be right and fair. And we will stand up for that, which is a really wonderful trait. We're really resilient. You know, we bounce back quickly.
And I think it's almost because I make so many mistakes that if I dwelled on it, I'd be absolutely miserable. We're super creative. You know, we can like come up with crazy, brilliant ideas and we're brilliant.
I mean, I do, I always start with, if I ask you if you have ADHD, you need to know that that's like the biggest compliment I can give you. So that's how I feel about it. And so I don't come from a stigmatization. Like my shirt says, you know, grandma has ADHD. I'm not a grandma though. But my grandma had ADHD and my kids grandma had ADHD. And I hope to be a grandma with ADHD.
But so I think you've got to start first with the like break down the stigma of it and talk about all of the wonderful traits. But like, you know, I also have all these unfinished craft projects because I get super excited about something. I buy everything that I need. I lose interest. I move on to the next thing.
And then I keep the piles up thinking one day it's going to remind me that I have it because I will forget that I have it, right? So when they can, they're shaking. And when I'm speaking, I have people come up to me every time I now talk about ADHD in older adults.
And they're like, you just saved my marriage or you just spoke to my soul or I'm just seeing the heads nod because they're connecting with me. So I think that first and foremost, we've all got to work towards breaking down the stigma. I definitely think we got to rename it. I hate the word disorder.
We're not going to do that on your podcast. But I think that would be important. But I think just, you know, first that sandwich, when you give someone a compliment, you have meat you need to deliver.
Like there's something that you really want to say, you know, maybe like to your spouse, right? Maybe you're really annoyed that, you know, she keeps leaving her laundry all over the place. Like that's just a, I'm sure it's you and not her. But, you know, so you would say, you know, honey, I love you. You are so amazing.
You're such a great cook. So you start with something really positive. You know, it's really frustrating for me when you are leaving the laundry out because then it makes me feel like you're waiting for me to do it and your mother doesn't work here. But I really know that we love each other and we're committed to, you know, getting through this laundry problem. Right. So, so I think that maybe even presenting it as a sandwich that way, like, you know, something great, here's what's going on. And then something great again. Yeah.
William Curb: And being like, yeah, we, this is not a bad thing. This is something that we can work through.
Jamie Shapiro: And my mom and I sit now and we laugh over ADHD memes and we are more connected than we have ever been in our entire relationship and more genuine than we've ever been.
William Curb: Well, so I was wondering if you had any final thoughts that you wanted to leave the audience with?
Jamie Shapiro: So if you have a parent, don't think that ADHD stops when you're 40 or 50 years old, right? So pay attention and look at your parents and give them the gift of understanding ADHD. And, and also, I would just say that one day, hopefully you will also be a senior with ADHD. And so please do yourself a favor and come out of your not now now mentality and start to really put in place what you're going to need to age successfully. That's financially, physically, all of it.
William Curb: Awesome. Yeah. It's very important to try and be, it's hard to be proactive with ADHD, but this is definitely one of the things you want to try and be proactive with. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm sure a lot of people related to so many parts of the conversation. I know I did and had a pleasure talking with you.
Jamie Shapiro: It was great. I look forward to meeting you again at conference.
William Curb: Thanks again to Jamie for coming on the show and thank you for sticking with us all the way to the end. Before you go, though, let's do a quick rundown of today's top tips. One, many symptoms that get labeled as senior moments, like forgetting names, losing track of appointments or misplacing items, can actually be longstanding ADHD traits that are finally being noticed. Forgetfulness that comes from ADHD doesn't need memory care protocols. Instead, it needs ADHD strategies such as reminders, structure, external cues and tools like smart watches or calendars that really help with ADHD. Two, as we age, we can risk drifting into social isolation. And this can be especially true with ADHD. We are struggling with time blindness, motivation, and these things can lead to dropping the ball on keeping up with friends and family. This means it's important that we're scheduling regular check-ins with our friends and doing things like joining a hobby or social group.
Three, we can revisit our relationships and recognize that our parents or kids with ADHD were just trying their best. Reframing these patterns can transform your relationship. Instead of replaying the same old fights, you can start from a place of compassion. And it's not about forgiving the past, it's about giving context and finding ways to move forward with that relationship. All right, that's it. Thanks for listening. I'd love to hear what you thought of this episode. Feel free to connect with me over at hackingyouradhd.com.
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And now for your moment of dad. I saw my neighbour stealing my socks off the clothesline. I was going to confront them, but then I got cold feet.