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Josh (01:10.387)
So joining us today to talk about COVID and vaccine induced autoimmunity is one of the most famous doctors in the world and the most published doctor in his field in history. Now, during the 2020 pandemic, his stance on COVID cost him everything from professorships to editorial positions and the American Board of Internal Medicine has even challenged him and tried to strip him of his medical license because of his stance on.

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Dr Peter McCullough (01:12.161)
Okay.

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Okay.

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Josh (01:39.155)
COVID and he's joining us today to talk about COVID and vaccine induced autoimmune issues. Dr. McCullough, thanks so much for being here.

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Dr Peter McCullough (01:46.734)
Thanks for having me.

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Josh (01:48.519)
Now I know that obviously this introduction doesn't do you justice, so for those of you who may not know who you are, can you tell us who you are and give us your credentials?

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Dr Peter McCullough (01:56.878)
I'm Dr. Peter McCullough. I'm a practicing internist and cardiologist in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. I hold degrees from Baylor University, University of Texas Southwestern, where I finished as a top graduate, the University of Michigan School of Public Health and Southern Methodist University. And I've had advanced training in internal medicine at University of Washington in Seattle and cardiology at now the Oakland University William Beaumont.

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School of Medicine, and I've held various leadership positions in academic medicine throughout the course of my career. I've been Chief of Cardiology at the University of Missouri, Kansas City, Chief Scientific and Academic Officer of the St. John Providence Health System, which is the largest health ministry in Ascension Health. So I was a known entity in academic medicine for a long time. And when COVID-19 hit, I directed my scholarship and my clinical efforts

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Dr Peter McCullough (02:53.282)
that patients needed early treatment in order to reduce hospitalization and death. And that shouldn't be controversial or objectionable to anyone.

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Josh (03:01.927)
Yeah, not in the least. And I think for anybody who's watching this by now, if they don't know who you are, they got a pretty good handle. And if you guys want to learn more about Dr. McCullough and his stance on COVID and all the, we'll say the critical talk about big pharma that you hear me talk about as well and the medical system, and it's so convoluted and twisted. And so there's lots of episodes on that. Dr. McCullough, I'd love to just really dive into COVID and the vaccinations and spike and all these things.

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Why are they affecting people's immune system so much? And that's something I see in my field. I specialize in IBD, particularly ulcerative colitis. And I see a lot of vaccine induced ulcerative colitis. What's going on?

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Dr Peter McCullough (03:43.925)
What we know is that the SARS-CoV-2 virus now is well recognized. It was engineered in a biosecurity lab in Wuhan, China to be more infectious and more lethal. The plans came from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Papers were published in Nature Communications,

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Dr Peter McCullough (04:02.598)
and defining the chimeric virus that was created to actually insert itself via ACE2 receptors into human respiratory epithelial cells. And there the situation becomes serious. So when people get a SARS-CoV-2 infection, if it's not immediately handled in the nasopharynx, and we rely upon virucidal nasal washes and gargles,

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And then, of course, multidrug treatment, which I've published extensively on, including the first protocol, it's now termed the McCullough Protocol. If we don't get early treatment, especially with the index case, then there's invasive disease. And because people are continuing to swallow, you know, repetitively when, you know, they're sick and otherwise the virus gets into the GI tract. Multiple studies show that. So that's of concern. As we get through the index infection, hopefully with early multidrug treatment,

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Josh (04:53.588)
Mm-hmm.

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Dr Peter McCullough (04:58.518)
virucidal nasal sprays and gargles. We now know with Omicron, you can get a second infection. And so you can get another exposure to this spike protein. The spike protein stays in the body for months to years after the infection as shown by Dr. Bruce Patterson. Now enter the vaccines. The vaccines in 94% of people who took a vaccine in the United States took a genetic messenger RNA vaccine. What we know there is they install the genetic code for again, the spike protein.

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But in this case, it's not just the outer segment, the S1 part of the spike protein, it's the full length S1, S2 spike protein. Again, Dr. Patterson, IncelDx and Preprint server system has shown the full length spike stuck in vaccinated people for nine months. And that's as long as these looked, it could be much longer. That's what's making people sick is both the infection, what's called post-COVID or post-acute sequelae syndrome, and now the vaccines.

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And sadly, because the vaccines don't work and people get COVID anyway, now they've had multiple spike exposure. They're even more sick.

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Josh (06:05.863)
So it's the spike exposure itself that's getting into things like the GI tract and getting around that's infecting the tissues locally. Is that right?

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Dr Peter McCullough (06:14.486)
Yeah, the spike protein in the natural infection, it does get into tissues. In an autopsy paper published by Chertow and colleagues from the NIH, they found the spike protein actually the intact virus in all the tissues in the body months after the infection and those who died. Obviously they had severe infections, but elsewhere, GI studies have found it, the virus in the GI tract, let's say for five months later on after the infection.

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With the vaccine, it's even worse. The genetic code is actually taken up into cells. The cells produce the spike protein in the Golgi apparatus. So the spike protein is inside the cell, and that's an abnormal protein inside the cell. Then the spike protein is expressed on the cell surface. Immediately, the body recognizes this as being foreign. There's a whole family of proteins on the cell surface called the major histocompatibility complex, MHC. And so the body is constantly trying to recognize what's self and what's not self.

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So when a cell expresses the spike protein, it's immediately identified as being a foreign invader and it's attacked. And so that is the genesis of autoimmunity. It occurs at some level in every single person who took a vaccine.

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Josh (07:26.491)
And so really what we're seeing is the difference between those who are severely affected, like developing IBD or inflammatory bowel disease, are those who may be either more susceptible, had a higher, would it be fair to say a higher viral load or a spike load or already had some kind of dysbiosis, leaky gut or some sort of inflammation based in those tissues and that's why it's so severe for them.

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Dr Peter McCullough (07:47.382)
Well, they already have inflammation for sure. And I think that's really one of the challenges. Now, work through this. I'm gonna move so I can get some critical energy to my phone. As patients need energy, our phones need energy to keep these interviews going. But let me say that autoimmunity is part and parcel of COVID-19 vaccination. And

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What we know is that...

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Josh (08:23.649)
Take your time.

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Dr Peter McCullough (08:24.568)
Let me get this phone. I just wasn't planning on the old.

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Josh (08:33.355)
Well, on your recommendation, I might just switch to StreamYard or something else.

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Dr Peter McCullough (08:36.49)
Yeah, this is just so problematic. You're gonna have to go to phone and the phone's running out of the battery. It's just Riverside is the worst. We try to avoid it at all costs. So what we know is that those who have inflammatory bowel disease, so in my practice, I have patients who have Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, you know, there's various forms. Those are the main ones.

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Josh (08:42.054)
Oh jeez.

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Dr Peter McCullough (09:06.23)
but the colon and sometimes the distal small bowel are inflamed. And so when systemic inflammation is flared up with a vaccine, it's a disaster. I've had patients have flares of ulcerative colitis who have taken a vaccine. I've had patients clearly with a Crohn's disease get markedly worse. Recently, a young man, the entire colon was inflamed. It was awful. He actually stopped being responsive to Humira, which is a...

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standard anti-tumor necrosis factor, monoclonal antibody needed IV therapy, got really dehydrated. And so we know the vaccine can cause tremendous problems because the vaccines were never tested in people with autoimmune conditions. But we know that it forces the body to produce the spike protein and express it on cell surfaces.

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Dr Peter McCullough (10:04.878)
mechanism of vaccination would make autoimmune diseases worse, and they certainly do.

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Josh (10:11.143)
That's something you really saw coming. I always joke because obviously I'm a big fan of yours. I had Dr. Paul Merrick on here last two weeks ago. We were talking about a lot of the similar stuff. He's explored fasting for spike proteins and there's so much. I now joke with my family. I'm like, well, I wish somebody would have told us this sooner before all this rolled out and you have since day one and you're one of the guys leading the charge, which is obviously where you are now. If I can deviate just a little bit.

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For one quick out of curiosity, what is going on right now with the American Medical Board and your licensing? Is that held up in litigation? What are they doing right now with all of that?

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Dr Peter McCullough (10:48.49)
My estate medical licenses have always been fine, not challenged. I have a perfect clinical track record. I've passed four internal medicine board exams over multiple decades, three in cardiovascular disease. My clinical care is flawless, but I am being challenged by the American Board of Internal Medicine, and this is what's happened. They have, they hold the accreditation over my internal medicine and cardiology board certifications, which have been granted, by the way, and have been

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I fully participate in the maintenance of certification. In fact, the boards rely on my research for some of the material on the board exams. So I've contributed greatly to internal medicine. And what they did is they came up with a COVID misinformation policy in 2021. Without any discussion or vote ahead of time, none of us approved them doing this. They did it.

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And then they went back in time to my March of 2021 Texas Senate testimony, when I first started to raise concerns about the vaccines. And they alleged that I spoke misinformation to the Texas Health and Human Services Committee. And then they held an internal meeting that I couldn't attend.

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that was attended by doctors who have no experience with COVID. They've never testified for the Senate. They have no publications in COVID. I have over six dozen peer-reviewed publications in COVID-19, so doctors who were not my peers. And then they convicted me of misinformation. So they sent me a letter about six months later saying that I've been ascertained to have spoken misinformation.

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and now I'm in an appeal process, which is now taking, it will end up taking more than a year. So this has been a huge administrative grind on me and I'm held up as probably the most scientifically accomplished and clinically accomplished doctor that is potentially going to be stripped of my medicine, residency and my fellowship for political reasons, not on clinical grounds. These accreditation bodies, as well as the state medical boards,

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Dr Peter McCullough (13:04.034)
Their only concern is clinical care. Their only concern is a doctor competent and they assess aptitude in all these areas. That's their only concern. Their concern should not be, you know, what I said in the Texas Senate or US Senate, or what I've said in a court of law, or what I say in other public venues. I've been very responsible. I've been very careful with the data. I cite the data. Been a frequent contributor on Fox News and Newsmax.

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One America News, I've been on ABC News. I published a whole series of op-eds in The Hill, Washington-based journal, the first year of the pandemic. I have my podcast, America Out Loud Talk, Radio McCullough Report. I've actually given more media and generated more media content and analyses than any physician in the world right now. I'm number one. And if they take issue with one statement out of tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of statements,

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That's something that we simply can discuss. And Senator Ron Johnson, who's been a great advocate, communicated to Richard Barron, the head of the American Board of Internal Medicine, and said, listen, before this goes any further, let's just meet in Washington. We volunteer to date, let's go over all the data on COVID-19 treatment, on vaccine safety and efficacy, and the American Board of Internal Medicine declined. They actually don't wanna talk about it. They wanna pursue a COVID misinformation.

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professional reprisal policy. That's ex post facto. They went back in time to when the policy didn't exist and are trying to convict me on testimony under oath. So when one is called to a state or US Senate and testifies with prepared statements and answers questions, we raise our hands and we do it to the best of our ability. And that's what I was doing. I think this is a chilling development. Anybody looking at this should worry that any

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citizen, any parent, lawyer, engineer, nurse, doctor, as a public citizen who testifies in a government office could be subject to professional reprisal of a policy that has no legal standing, it has no internal organizational standing. It's a policy that we don't even know why it exists to begin with. And yet this could

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Josh (15:24.808)
Wow.

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Dr Peter McCullough (15:26.314)
This could change the calculus of my entire career.

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Josh (15:31.463)
Well, I think it's safe to say that there's going to be lots of lots of work out there for you, no matter which way this goes. And I hope you continue doing what you're doing. One of the things that concerns me is that obviously with the medical system going the way it's going, and it really feels no different than North Korea, China, a very similar regime and censorship that these people have already got the vaccines, the people who have already now have these vaccination induced or COVID induced autoimmune conditions and diseases.

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There's going to be no help for them coming from the CDC, coming from the American medical boards. There's going to be no help. So if they already have these conditions now, onset by vaccines, they have autoimmunity or digestive issues, diseases that have been caused by them. What steps can they take? Is it just clearing the spike? Is it doing something else? What does it look like?

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Dr Peter McCullough (16:17.706)
We're dealing with what we call spike protein disease all the time, four major areas, cardiovascular, myocarditis being the lead, neurologic, that could be stroke, intracranial hemorrhage, Guillain-Barre syndrome, small fiber neuropathy, coagulation, blood clots, deep anus thrombosis, pulmonary embolism, and then immunologic. The classic form fruit syndromes are...

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vaccine-induced thrombocytopenic perpurea and multisystem inflammatory disorder. But as you point out, autoimmunity, there are papers published, people can turn ANA positive and develop lupus-like syndromes. They clearly can turn ANCA positive. This is very important, anti-neutrophil cytoplasmic antibody, and develop various syndromes that involve cutaneous rashes and renal failure, flaring of inflammatory bowel disease that we've covered, flaring of other.

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pre-existing autoimmune conditions, including systemic lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. Hemolytic anemias, also well described, that are autoimmune. So what we know there is the spike protein is a problem, the body can't get rid of it. The big lead is there are now some enzymes, naturally occurring enzymes that can be given as supplements which we believe could provide support. There are no prospective double-blind, randomized placebo-controlled trials completed, and there's none planned right now. I just checked.

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clinicaltrials.gov. So we're a long way from being able to make therapeutic claims, but let me say one of the lead compounds is natokinase. Natokinase is a breakdown product of fermentation of soybeans by bacillus subtilis nato, and it is a endogenous thrombolytic enzyme. It's a form of a blood thinner. And a paper by Tanakawa and colleagues showed.

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that it basically dissolves the spike protein where human enzymes can't do that. Now another naturally occurring enzyme called bromelain, which is derived from the stems of pineapple, seems to have a effect, probably an additional effect. Proteolytic cleavage is different spots. And then there are some substances that look like they impair the spike protein damage in the body, and that would include curcumin, which is a...

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Dr Peter McCullough (18:36.578)
derivative of turmeric and then N-acetylcysteine, which is a time-honored antioxidant. I can tell you that I've tried all the medications. I've tried corticosteroids and I've tried various forms of anti-inflammatories, traditional antivirals that we've already used, hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, prolonged Paxlovid. I've tried everything.

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And what I'm finding is the natural products seem to clinically help people get better, unless there's a defined syndrome. But if I have a typical person who just has, you know, feels bad, fatigue, hair loss, weight loss, gastrointestinal symptoms, skin and hair changes, brain fog, headache, that would be a typical patient where there's not a defined syndrome. My go-to regimen would be natokinase.

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100 milligrams twice a day, that'd be the equivalent of 2,000 fibrin, like units twice a day. Bromelain, 500 milligrams a day. Curcumin, preferably the nano curcumin, 500 milligrams twice a day. And then, N-acetyl cysteine, preferably the augmented N-acetyl cysteine, a thousand milligrams twice a day. I'd go with that four part combination, plus aspirin.

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either 81 or 325 milligrams a day, depending on body size and bleeding risks. And then that would be continued for at least three months, sometimes six, nine, or 12 months. My experience is, and I've had the family members and others start to get better after about two months. It's not instantaneous, but they start to get better. Now, if there are defined chest syndromes, so pleuridenia or chest wall discomfort,

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For instance, pleuritis, pericarditis, I would use colchicine, prescription drugs, 0.6 milligrams a day, maybe a prolonged course of prednisone, a corticosteroid. If the patient was ANA positive, so the blood test for autoimmunity was positive, and they had joint aches, I would use hydroxychloroquine in that application, 200 milligrams twice a day. If the patient was ANCA positive, anti-neutrophil, cytoplasmic antibody positive, then I'd probably

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Dr Peter McCullough (20:56.61)
a rheumatologist, they may need advanced therapy including Cytoxan, higher dose Prednisone, IVIG, sometimes they need plasma exchange, Rituximab. We're talking about some intensive treatment. So the syndromes really do matter. So my first job is to rule out these significant internal medicine syndromes. And then if I'm left with the common, what we call post-acute sequelae syndrome, PAS,

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P-A-S-C, that's the new abbreviation. I go to that four part natural combination. The great thing about the natural substances are available online. People can access them easily. They don't need prescriptions for them and get a head start on it. So people have to understand that these supplements actually are medications. The most serious one being natokinase. So there are some caveats, some safety caveats. First thing is that there's a soy allergy. Almost certainly they're gonna have an allergy to natokinase and I've seen that in my practice.

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The second thing is natal kinase is a blood thinner, and so we have to look for bleeding, gacosal bleeding from the nose or mouth. If there's already blood thinners and aspirin on board, we need special precautions. We still can use it, but we need to have special precautions. But I do find this interesting to summarize that such an unnatural virus, SARS-CoV-2, which was engineered by US research in a Chinese biosecurity lab, and then the vaccines, which are very unnatural, that's synthetic messenger RNA coding for this.

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engineered Chinese protein. Such an unnatural thing to have in the human body that the solutions by and large are natural. This is very interesting. So, you know, aspirin, which is key in acute treatment and in follow-up, aspirin is derived from the bark of birch trees. Hydroxychloroquine, which we use occasionally and we've reviewed that, is derived from the chichona tree. Ivermectin derived from the soil in Japan.

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Josh (22:27.808)
Hmm.

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Dr Peter McCullough (22:51.898)
Look at natokinis, derived to Japanese, have discovered it derived from the fermentation of soy. Curcumin, you know, derived from a tuber. And then we have bromelain derived from the stem of pineapples and acetylcysteine, a natural substance. I think it's so interesting that it's natural that's helping people bring us out of this.

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pandemic now of vaccine injury. So I'm greatly hopeful now that we have an approach. Whereas several months ago I was worried that there were so many sick people and we didn't really have an approach, we do now.

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Josh (23:29.691)
Wow. Well, I know we only have a couple of minutes and I want to make sure we can let you go in time. You got to pop on television as well. So where can people find out more research about what it is you're doing? Obviously you've been banned from social media. You're kind of a hard guy to get a hold of. And so it's through the work that I've been doing with Dr. Salibi, how we got in touch. But if people want to learn more about you and what you're doing for COVID research in the work, how can they find that?

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Dr Peter McCullough (23:54.038)
Well, some of the great sources is go to my Substack, Courageous Discourse Substack, enroll as a Painter Founder member. I have many, many followers there. I update every day new papers in the literature with a graphical abstract where you can see the evidence. You can see I cite the evidence here. Nothing is conjecture or speculation. Everything is well grounded in the scientific literature. Listen to my podcast, American Out Loud Talk Radio McCullough Report.

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every Saturday and Sunday, 2 p.m. Eastern. And then it's on the Apple I Heart podcast network starting on Tuesday. I have a book out that really tells the first year of the pandemic about early treatment, how I got involved with the White House and the US Senate. That's Courage to Face COVID.com. Courage to Face COVID-19 is the book. And I'm starting a new TV show in Dallas called The Second Opinion with true crime author John Leake. We've shot.

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about seven shows right now that's gonna launch. It'll be on almost all the major networks as well as internet platforms on AFN networks. So look for that. Some of the great sources of credentialed and approved information is with the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, aapsonline.org. You'll see the home treatment guide. You'll see the various position statements, briefs there.

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on COVID-19 post-COVID syndrome. And then lastly, for nutraceuticals and supplements, a great place to go is the wellness company, twc.health.com. I am the chief scientific officer of that company, so part-time I advise them on directions and they have some of the best in class supplements, including the natto kinase supplements called Spike Support.

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Josh (25:38.311)
And that one's blended with dandelion, isn't it?

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Dr Peter McCullough (25:40.83)
It is Irish Seymour, Standeline, Selenium, some other key ingredients. So the supplements that can supercharge a single ingredient are particularly attractive.

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Josh (25:51.815)
I heard you talking about that on Ask Dr. Drew actually, and that's where I picked that up and did some digging in. So I know you got to fly here Dr. McCullough. Thank you so much for your time. It's been an absolute pleasure to meet. I told Dr. Merrick, I said some people want to meet actors like Brad Pitt and Tom Hanks. You and Dr. Merrick were on my list. So if I die tomorrow, I'd be happy. So thank you so much for coming in and being here. And hopefully we'll have a chance to chat sometime very soon.

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Dr Peter McCullough (26:17.666)
Thank you so much. If I can just ask for a post edit note when I had to move and change my phone, if you can have your team edit that out so it looks a little smoother.

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Josh (26:26.123)
Yeah, we'll do all the editing, smooth it out, we'll chop it up. And did you want me to send you a copy of this interview as well? Okay. I'll make sure you get it. Alright, doc, thanks so much.

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Dr Peter McCullough (26:30.826)
Yeah, yeah, I'll post it on social media when you're ready to go. Thank you. Bye bye.