Seven figure success starts when you start thinking like a CEO.
Welcome to the John Kitchens Coach podcast.
Experience this your host John Kitchens.
Get ready to think bigger and transform your business into
a path to lasting freedom.
Today we are going to be diving into a game changing conversation
about identifying your roadblocks.
And honing in on strategies that lead to having clarity and success
in your real estate business.
Uh, if you ever felt like you're stuck in the production mode and overwhelmed
by systems or unsure how to scale your business, this episode is for you.
Our guest is an expert in breaking down goals into actionable steps,
helping agents transition from being just another producer.
To becoming the true CEO of their business.
So let's jump in.
What are the biggest roadblocks holding most agents back from real success?
Now we have John Kitchens as our guest, who is a top systems and processes
coach, who helps real estate agents turn their practice into a real business
with over 20 years in the industry.
Thousands of coaching sessions, John knows how to break down goals into actionable
steps that lead to real success.
In this episode, we will talk about how to identify the biggest roadblocks
for you in your business, and develop strategies that create clarity, that
creates efficiency and long-term growth.
John, welcome to the podcast finally.
I'm glad to have you.
Yeah, man.
Uh, that's weird.
Uh, we were kind of laughing before we, we came on.
I was like, man, I think I pushed you off way too many times.
I'm glad we're finally here.
Awesome.
We're gonna have to, we're gonna have to get a lot more value for that.
Okay.
That's the punish.
That's right.
There you go.
Can you, can you take us, take us to the beginning of your real estate journey.
What led you into the industry and what were some of the early challenges
that you faced in your business?
Yeah.
You know, I was just kind of into the industry by default.
Um, I've got connected with, um, with Jay Kinder back in 2004 and just, just
kind of really on a whim, um, the, the, the crew that I was kind of working
with were lifelong buddies, serial entrepreneurs was, was working for them.
And, you know, prior to 2004, we had, um.
Been a part of multiple businesses and we had gotten really good at being
able to get 'em, get 'em to a point to where we could kind of flip 'em.
And so it was just a really cool experience early on to be, you know, being
able to, to work in a couple different industries, but, uh, being able to get
the businesses into a point and get 'em sold and, you know, we were, uh,
and selling them.
Yeah.
So we were, you know, looking for something to do.
And so at the time, I mean, you know.
Mid, mid 20-year-old.
You know, guys, we thought it'd be a good idea to own a bar and, um, you know, got
into the bar business in, in 2004 and my, uh, my daughter was born that year.
My son had just turned two, and my daughter was born.
So two, two young, you know, two young kids.
Uh, and, you know, a young family in the bar scene isn't,
is not, that's not a good mix.
And so, uh.
My, uh, my first roommate out of, out of college, uh, we actually played junior
high and high school golf together.
Uh, Mr. Michael Reese was the connector.
Uh, he caught wind that I was, uh, about to jump ship from the guys
that I was, uh, you know, a part of and working with, and he said.
I got a guy, I got a guy that you need to meet and he made the introduction to,
to kinder in, um, uh, October of 2004.
And so, you know, fast forward, you know, 20 years later, multiple
brokerages, uh, being a part of in Lotton, Oklahoma, as well as
Frisco, Texas, and getting into the.
Coaching side of things back in, uh, February of 2012.
And so been a, been an interesting ride.
Fun ride.
You know, I think during, you know, owning and operating the brokerages, I
think overseeing over 4,300 transactions and, you know, now in my, what, 12, 13th
year of one-on-one coaching, uh, almost 17,000 one-on-one calls, and I think
we're just a couple months away, we'll hit the 10,000 hour of one-on-one coaching.
So, you know.
I, I, I like to share that because just of the unique perspective of
boots on ground owning and operating, man, I get it in the trenches I get.
You know, small town, you know, Lotton, Oklahoma Market.
I get the biggest, one of the biggest, most complex, toughest markets on
the planet in, in DFW as well as coaching, you know, real estate
agents all over North America.
And now, you know, the beauty of exp of working with, um, you know, in, with
agents in different countries, being able to, to see and understand that dynamic
as well when it comes to, to housing in, in other countries outside of the us.
So it's been, uh, man, it's been a fun, it's been a, been an interesting ride.
Up to this point and really, uh, really excited to see, you know, as
things unfold, you know, this year and into, into the future, um, especially
running through, through this decade.
What was 2004 like?
Was it lot similar to what we have going on right now?
The market is inflated.
Everything's expensive.
There is some uncertainty, like what were some of the challenges when
you first got into the business?
You know, some of
the challenge, I mean, we, things were good for us then, um, you know, being in
a, we, you know, military market we're, we're kind of insulated obviously being in
right in the middle of the country, really insulated from, from a lot of things.
And even as we rode into, you know, 2006, 2007, 2008 timeframe,
when, you know, the rug was pulled out from underneath all of us.
What we found, and I think this is where you come from, you know, a
mindset perspective of, of, of an abundance mindset, of, of understanding
that we always have a move.
There's always an opportunity.
You just, you, you have to be aware enough and, and be agile
enough to, you know, see where.
Where, where the puck is going and where the opportunities are.
You know, kinder went a different route.
He, um, you know, he went all in on short sales because that was the opportunity.
And I think, you know, for him it was really painful owning, you know,
over two dozen, you know, rental properties in that market that you
were all of a sudden upside down on.
And, and so just knowing, you know, that game, I, I went.
Where the other opportunity was, and the other opportunity
was, was in new construction.
Wow.
And so I really, you know, lassoed, you know, my, um, you know, hitched my
wagon to one builder and, you know, I mean, I was at his beck and call, but
it was one of the greatest experiences for me to be able to, to, to kind of
go through that time of you, you know, you've got polar opposites, you've got
people buying brand new construction homes, and you got people that are.
Underwater that are just having to, you know, make negotiation, negotiate
with the bank or having somebody in their corner to negotiate with the
banks to be able to get that done.
So those are some of the, you know, big struggles.
And you know, for me, I walked into a successful operation.
I mean, you know, Kimer was already at that time, um, you know, had a, had a
ton of market share lot in Oklahoma.
There, there's only about 3000 total transactions per year.
Um, during, during that run.
It was only about a hundred thousand, um, you know, people within the, within
the county, and I think it was 32, 30, 33, 34, um, thousand rooftops.
I mean, it's, it's grown since then.
But during that time, that's, that's kind of what it was.
But it's still about the same amount of transactions.
Well, when I came in in 2004.
Closed out 340 transactions next year.
We closed 430 transactions and then the year after that we closed 5 21.
Where I came in was on the operation side of things.
I didn't come in with boots on the ground, right into the trenches
on the sales side of things.
So that's where, you know, having that perspective of coming in.
And I always like to say I walked into a situation, it was like
a a, um, go fast boat motor.
On the back of a, on the back of a rowboat is what it was.
It was just all over the place.
And, and just, you know, with me coming in, putting systems, processes,
guardrails, cadence, rhythm, calendars, just all of the things to create
structure really allowed us to make that jump and make that jump again.
When we did 5 21, we finished, um, we finished number two in the world
for Coldwell Banker that year.
Yet we were number two in our market.
So this is why I'm always like pro competition.
Like you've gotta have competition and this is what I love about, you
know, the other platform companies.
That's what I love about Real, that's what I love about all these other
companies that are trying to, trying to po position for number two in, in, you
know, um, kind of the, the cloud back.
Brokerage platform model like exp needs competition.
Yeah.
And you know, I look at the changes that even exp made over the last 2, 3, 4 years.
If it wasn't for competition, they would probably would've got stagnant.
They wouldn't have done anything.
They would've just been like, Hey, we're good.
Right?
We got our own little category, we're good over here.
I love competition and I think that's.
Fueled us so much is because we got our, we got our lunch handed
to us every, every dang year.
We were like, what do we do to beat these guys?
And we never could.
They were a top 10 re max team on the planet that we went head to head with.
We had 20% market share, yet we got, we got throttled by their team.
So it humbled us, but it also drove us.
Yeah.
Um, and that was really instrumental for me in those
first few years of having that.
And, um, oh 7 0 8 was tough.
I, I finally had to get into production.
Yeah.
And so I learned, okay.
I'm just not sitting in the office from an operational standpoint.
I'm actually out in the I'm, I'm out actually doing the thing.
Yeah.
And um, it was just a great experience, especially for those first 5, 6, 7
years of being in the industry is to be able to have that perspective.
It must be, must, must have been tough.
Like a lot of people think growth happens when everything's going good.
Like, well, would you, would you say like, if you take away all
of that experience, oh, 7, 8, 9, maybe I've been up to 11 right.
You would be where you are today with understanding, you would've experience
No, we without no, no way.
There's, there's no way.
And we wouldn't be where we're at today if it wasn't for Lotton, Oklahoma.
Yeah.
And, and the reason I say that is because one thing that I've seen
across, you know, the two decades of being in this, in this industry is that
you can get rewarded for bad behavior and in high price point markets.
You can get rewarded for bad behavior because you can go cash a couple
big commission checks and it could offset some of your poor habits.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, when you're selling a hundred thousand dollars houses
in every Penny Matters, yeah.
You start to understand how important the details are.
You start to understand customer acquisition and you know, marketing.
Just as well as anybody, so you understand customer acquisition cost.
You understand, you know, you know the, the lifetime value of, of
that endeavor, of that opportunity.
You know what you're willing to give and you can't give.
You also understand the profitability side of things.
So it really shaped us in having to be well-rounded, but it also forced us
to get out and utilize our business.
To uncover other opportunities.
Yeah.
Rentals, rehabs, developments, new construction, ownership
of other companies, other venue affiliate relationships.
And we had to do all of those things sometimes to just put,
you know, food on the table.
And, you know, I I, I, I really look at like, having that experience
really laid the foundation for what we were able to do, you know?
Years to come after that with the coaching organization with, with NAEA and, and
then obviously stepping into exp in 2017.
Yeah.
And, and I think, uh, it's very important to highlight this point here is that
I think a lot of people forget or miss the point, or they a lot of times even.
Resent struggles in a business.
Right?
And they just wanna get to becoming successful.
We just can't wait.
Like, we just can't wait to make, make what we wanna make.
Right.
You know?
It's gonna make my first million dollars that they're not ready.
Right?
You wouldn't be a coach if you didn't go through those struggles.
You wouldn't be who you are today if you didn't go through those struggles
to have the skin in the game.
Um, you know, I don't know the results I had today.
If I had them three years ago, I would crush and burn.
Yeah, right.
Because I didn't become the character.
Mm-hmm.
I didn't have that under experience under my belt.
So I think it's very important to highlight that the struggles
we do face the failures.
Forget about struggles.
The failures we do face in the path to success are what
makes us successful, right?
Are what gives us that character, that resiliency that we require to
actually hold success when we have it.
It's so important.
It's so important to have, because you look at.
I saying of, you know, you, you know, skipping steps only
presents the illusion of speed.
And, and you think about that in anything that we do.
If you skip any of the steps, one, you miss the lessons,
like what you're talking about.
But no matter what happens, you're gonna have to learn those lessons at some point.
Doesn't matter.
Like, you can, you can accelerate the collapse time.
You're gonna, you know you're gonna pay for it, probably
you're gonna pay for it at some point.
You have to learn those lessons and just, just even in the process of
working with buyers and sellers, right?
It's like, listen, if you skip through some stuff to
get to, hey, it's a slam dunk.
And I, I was, for me, this lesson was working with my sister the first
time that I worked with my sister.
And it's my sister.
She's gonna listen to her big brother, whatever.
I say, I've got my real estate license.
I'm working for one of the top companies, you know, on the planet.
She's gonna just do what I say.
Well.
I didn't talk about really getting crystal clear on her goals.
I didn't articulate, you know, the market, the market conditions, you know, kind
of what to anticipate, what to expect.
I didn't really explain to her our process of how we go about, you know,
everything that we do and why we do it, how we position it, how we market it.
Um, everything that we do, just skipped all those steps.
Well, I have to deal with her because we're not getting traction.
Um, it's not selling fast enough.
It finally does sell, goes under contract, and now I didn't
articulate the closing process.
So now she's all over, all over me.
She's all over our team.
She's all over our coordinators.
The, the, the office wants to kill me.
Like, like it's not a good situation and it really hurt our,
our relationship for a long time.
Well, we amended that, you know, time heals everything and it comes
around again to sell this home.
And I'm like, I'm gonna do it the right way this time.
And I did.
I sat down with her, I took her through the whole process.
I took her through what we, what we have A-C-H-S-A today within a EA that's made
available to the Honey Badger Nation.
And I took her through it textbook.
It was the best experience.
We had days on market, it almost within, within her geographical area, her
subdivision, her price point, almost to the average to the day when we were seeing
all types of similar prop property sell.
The closing experience was on point.
It was just, it was textbook,
yeah,
but it was textbook because I had learned the lesson.
And
I did it right the second time.
I didn't skip any steps.
And it was, it was fantastic.
And so that was, for me at that point is like, got it, got it.
You just, there's no shortcuts in this and, and one, there's no
shortcuts in life, but there's no shortcuts in this game.
And if you don't take the time to articulate your system, your
process, you're gonna pay for it.
You're gonna pay for it at some point.
Now, for you, for you, what was it that got you out of production?
Or what was the thing that.
Get you where you are today, coaching agents, having the organization.
Like what, what, what, what was the story behind that for you?
Yeah, it, it definitely was the transition of, uh, on the coaching
side of things, we were able to, um, install some things into the business.
I think understanding,
having proven systems that are not hero, hero dependent, hero ball.
So you think about.
You know, prior to a lost a lot of listing presentations.
Where at, at the point you would walk in and look at my accolades, look at my
awards, look at, look at our, you know, what, what we've earned, what we've
done and like you should list with me.
Right?
It's no value driven back to the consumer.
And so we had to create, um, a proven process to be able to.
That anybody could articulate and deliver, and the consumer understood
that it was the process that was gonna help them achieve their goal.
So we had to do that.
The other thing is that we had to understand the math and, you know, operate
within kind of a salary cap formula that you have, revenue you have to pay out,
commission splits, broker fees, referrals.
So how much money's coming to your company?
By the way, we need to have a profit.
So I only have so many dollars to put the best team on the
field with salaries and expenses.
Once we learned that dynamic of, of how to make the math, math in a market
that every penny mattered and have a proven system, we were able to then
excuse ourselves or escape having to, to be in there with buyers and sellers.
Um, you know, I still loved it.
I would still.
Work, the new construction angles.
I would obviously our, our rehabs, our properties and things like
that because I, I, I mean, just enjoyed it, enjoyed that part of it,
but not going in cold to anybody.
But, but, you know, by that point, I mean, we had a marketing machine.
I mean, you know, marketing, like I said, just as well as anybody and, and being
able, that's what you have to have to of attraction, attraction based business.
So we, we were able to put key people in place and have, have the right, the
right who's the right talent running the organization to be able to step out.
So I think leadership.
You know, having, having an proven system, a good business model,
but great leadership and great people to be able to escape.
So I always joke, right, I was just able to escape Lawton and got down to
Texas, got into, uh, Frisco, uh, Frisco, Texas, and, you know, working in there.
But it was the coaching side of things for me.
And, you know, my dad, um, you know, my dad's a hall of fame
coach in the public school system for over, over 40, over 40 years.
So I grew up.
Coach's kid.
I grew up in the locker room, so I, I was just hardwired, you know,
from, from jump on on coaching.
Yeah.
I, I just though knew that there was a better way on the coaching side
of things than, uh, uh, getting into the public school system as a coach.
I saw my dad's, I saw my dad's paychecks, and I was like, that's not for me.
I, I, I want more.
I want more.
So I'm not getting
feedback to babysit people.
Right.
Exactly.
So I, uh, um.
You know, the opportunity came about when, um, the guys had the high level
coaching program at NAEA, um, which was NAEA mastermind at the time.
You had to be doing a million in revenue to even apply to get into that room.
And you, you think back in those days, you know, 20 10, 20 11, 20,
you know, timeframe, it was all about getting to seven figures in revenue.
And, and then the next jump was to get to, you know, a thousand transactions.
Right.
That was like milestone to be able to, to get to that point.
And so during that time of NAA Mastermind, you had to be doing a million in revenue.
So that's the clientele that.
I was working with at the, at the point.
And,
um, and so for me it was, it was definitely on the coaching side of things.
Yeah.
Um,
as you know, the brokerage in Texas, um, really vetting out
certain ideas and certain things that the direction we were going.
Yeah.
And then we were exposed to exp. Um, we, we, we overlooked it a couple times
just because we were so fixated that we, we had our, our plan our way, but.
I think, you know, the lesson is always, you know, once you have a big vision and
knowing kind of what that big, hairy, audacious goal is, then you've gotta be
able to, to have the flexibility to, you know, is there a better way, is there
a way that we could get there faster?
And that's what we saw with exp to be able to, to know that we could
achieve our vision in a fraction of time by aligning with this opportunity.
Right.
Yeah.
And that's what we were able to do.
So what do you, what do you feel like is the mindset tip that, uh, is
necessary or the agents that are not have made that shift from transitioning,
from just being a salesperson, uh, to actually becoming a business owner?
I would say this opportunity is not available to any other sales
industries, uh, car salesman.
They can have their own business furniture salesman.
They can have their own business.
But real estate PE agents can, so what is the mind mindset shift require from
going just to salesperson, paycheck to paycheck, commission to commission deal to
deal to truly becoming a business owner?
Yeah.
It, it, it is the shift that you, you want to make and that you want to, to focus and
lean in more on business side of things.
Yeah.
And I, it's that whole agent to CEO mindset, and I think it's the,
you know, the first, the first.
Is understanding your mindset and how you're thinking about it, and that you
wanna move from not only just being that agent out there just chasing
transactions, but that you really want to truly become that CEO, not only of
your business, but the but first and foremost, the CEO of your life, right?
You really want to understand that.
It's up to you.
Right?
And, and you gotta focus on the things within your control.
You don't wanna be dependent upon anybody else or any other
company for your success.
Yeah.
And once you can kind of mentally make that shift, that like, got it.
I'm head of company, I have the responsibility, I'm responsible for my
decisions, I'm responsible for, you know, the things that are within my control.
And I really wanna build a, a, a business.
I wanna, I wanna turn it into a vehicle.
That I could utilize that's gonna move me to my freedom.
Yeah.
I think once you can start to get clear and think about the future,
and so I, I break down and push on freedom is, to me is two things.
It's, it's one is how much money do I need coming in that I'm not
trading time for dollars so that I could live the life I want.
Do what I want, with who I want when, wherever I want.
Um, you know, Tony, Tony Robbins, absolute financial freedom number.
What is that number?
Because right now, you know, a lot of us, if, if we don't, if we don't,
we're like dancing bears, right?
If we don't dance, we don't get paid.
And so we've gotta be out there.
We've gotta be doing these things.
And so utilizing.
Your real estate company as a vehicle.
And like you said, there is no other industry that's better
to, to uncover opportunities.
And that's my real belief with real estate now and into the future for you, if, if
you're in this and you're wanting to build a real estate business, not just be an
agent, a salesperson chasing transactions, but if you really wanna build a business,
you have to build your business as as an opportunity generating machine.
It generates opportunities that you're able to either
real estate or other business.
Yeah.
But what does my number need to be?
The second thing is, am I, am I moving and living closer to my perfect day?
And if you've gone through the Perfect day exercise, uh, Frank Kern talks about it.
Um, and you can just jump on YouTube and go, Frank Kern, perfect Day.
He's got his whole, um.
The whole presentation.
This is back in the long hair Frank Kern days.
And, and so he, um, he breaks down.
It's really about, um, core identity, who you are at your core.
Yeah.
But he also has, um, he talks about if you have to live Groundhog Day over and over.
What would you, what would you do from the moment you wake up?
What are your all senses firing?
You know, where are you at when you look out the window?
What do you see?
What's going on to the last thought you have when you fall asleep?
And if everybody's honest with themselves and does the exercise
correctly, everybody works.
Um, and typically it's two to four hours that everybody works.
But what it identifies is, and this is ICP, this goes back to your ideal client
and it's like, well, if I'm gonna work.
Four hours Groundhog Day, then I'm only gonna work with these
type of people because these type of people pay me the most amount
of money I enjoy them the most.
Yeah.
Then the question becomes, well, why aren't you working with those people now?
And so it starts to, to to guide you in a direction.
And I think that's where a lot of, a lot of real estate agents, um,
are just like leaves in the wind.
They just kind of blow with where everything's going.
They're not moving in that known direction.
Yeah, and I think that's the first and foremost thing that
you have to get real clear on.
And then your real estate business is just a vehicle to uncover
opportunities, and there's no better, there's no better business opportunity
industry to uncover opportunities to build wealth than real estate.
Hey, quick break before we move on.
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Alright, back to the episode.
For sure.
And for me, the mindset shift is really just pretty simple as far as when it
has, when it's like, okay, how do I shift from production to a business owner?
Is that we are in the business of making a lifestyle for
ourselves and not making a living.
Yeah.
And you could just go from that perspective that I'm here
to make a living, to making a lifestyle the way I wanna live.
That's the ultimate goal.
And not paying my bills.
Right?
Yeah.
Uh, I think that's when people can unlock like, you know what?
I need to take control because if I don't have control, I'm always under
the bus and I'm not driving the bus.
Right.
I'm one bus.
Now, what would you say common, some common roadblocks that holds.
Business owners, like people that understand that this is a business,
the team leaders, the brokers, uh, what are some, what are some common
roadblocks when it comes to scaling their businesses or, uh, really get that, get
to that freedom with their business?
Yeah, I mean, number one is mindset.
And I think kind of what is your decision making process and how do
you filter out, you know, the, the constraints and the roadblocks and the
challenges that we all face in growth.
Right.
E, every time, you know.
Growth's not easy.
There's, there's certain things, there's lessons, right.
That we have to learn and there's, there's setbacks and
just how to navigate those waters.
It's first and foremost the, the right mindset.
Yeah.
But I think it's operating in a mindset of, of constraints.
Mm-hmm.
So one of the, the best lessons that I, that I learned early on from one of
our mentors of Vern Harnish, and it's his number one book recommendation.
It's called The Goal, by Eli Gold Rat.
And the goal is really told in Fable format and it's told in a manufacturing
company, but it's also, you know, parallels with the re his relationship
with his wife and then parallels to the relationship with his kids.
And it really comes down to the theory of constraints, right?
That's what it operates in, is, is, is operating in within
the theory of constraints.
And it's, that was one of the biggest shifts for me is now,
okay, well where is the constraint?
Where is the bottleneck?
Where is really.
That we have to un, you know, to, you know, move along.
But there's always a, always a constraint.
And for most understanding, what we have to look at first and foremost is,
okay, out of the top three, do we have a strategy constraint, which is a game plan.
Do we have a a, a constraint there?
Do we have a problem there?
Do we have how we execute problem or do we have a talent problem?
And what I've seen over the last decade is.
80 plus percent of people have a talent problem they have.
They have a who.
They don't have the right people around them.
That's their biggest constraint, and I think that initial shift that
I wanna build a business that's gonna serve me from now and into the
future is that I can't do it alone.
I think that's where you, you, you have to just be like, got it.
I can't do it on, I can't do it on my own.
I have to, I, I need help.
And so when you can overcome that first constraint of getting the right
people or knowing that you gotta get the right people, and when you have the
right people, they can help with the better strategy and better execution.
So that helps a lot of those constraints.
But when you get down into the strategy and the execution, it's like, okay.
What do we, what do we focus on?
What do we work on?
Yeah.
And this then comes into understanding in your conveyor belt of your business.
Raw material.
Yeah.
Closed transaction.
And I would even push it a little bit further that.
It's not just a closed transaction, it's like they're really not a client
of yours until they send you a referral.
So if you take with that, that mindset that you extend the conveyor belt
out a little bit further, so you, you have this conveyor belt and now raw
material is gonna be traffic, right?
Yeah.
Traffic demand a, a compelling offer.
Yeah.
Right.
Do we have a traffic problem or do we have an offer problem?
And, and just being able to look on the front end of that conveyor belt.
Well, once you have traffic, then you gotta convert the traffic, so then you
move into the next piece of conversion.
Yeah.
And so in state it's, it's converting, you know, a, a buyer or a seller inquiry.
Into a conversation and then a conversation of, Hey, we
need to get face to face.
And then when we're face to face, I convert you to want to move
forward and do business together.
Yeah, and then once you, once you once we're there, then the next
piece of the conveyor belt, once conversion, then becomes fulfillment.
Right.
So, you know, marketing is, you know, making a promise, but being able to
keep the promise, like I can deliver on what I, what I'm selling you.
So you have fulfillment and then you have retention.
Yeah.
And so I think that's why in, in working with buyers and sellers, I think you
wanna extend the conveyor belt, not just at the closing table, but I gotta do
even more until you send me a referral.
Then I got you, then I got you in my raving fan.
I got you.
You know, on the customer journey.
I got you Now as a promoter out there in the streets singing
praises and sending people our way.
But it's operating within those theory of constraints and, and the biggest thing
that I see, I and I, this is the number one question I always ask every, every
stage, every room kind of walking into, and I'm like, how many of you guys need
more leads, need more opportunities?
99% of the room raises their hand.
Now, the next few are the people that are like, dude, I got enough leads.
I just need to know how I need help converting.
Right.
I got a conversion problem.
And so those are the top two things, because most agents,
they know how to fulfill.
Yeah.
And then if you can just shift their mindset a little bit, like, Hey, you're
not done until they send you a referral.
They're like, oh, okay.
I need a love on 'em a little bit more.
Yeah.
So the biggest two things is traffic and then conversion.
Mm-hmm.
But it's always about traffic, man.
It's always about demand.
It's always about creating opportunities because if you can.
Do that.
That fixes a lot of problems.
It, it's funny the way you explain the whole Convey Bill thing and it,
it is very, I never used the word conveyor bill, but I do explain like
inside of the academy we, I teach it very similarly like a production line.
I'm, I'm in Michigan, so we are, we are like all about cars, like we Perfect.
Yeah.
Um, little differently.
I don't have four, four things.
I have three.
The way I look at it is attraction problem, attraction system, convergence
system and retention system and retention starts from fulfillment.
You gonna, someone you gotta start from, like as soon as they
become their client, you gotta act like to keep them forever, right?
Yeah.
For me, retention starts even before you even get to closing tables
far, you know, you the right thing.
You not even gonna keep them as a client.
They're gonna leave you to go somewhere else.
Right?
A hundred percent.
So even, even that, but that's amazing the way you broke that down.
Now what would you say, what, what are some of the biggest mistakes.
Agents make when trying to build a real estate team, like go from production
to leveraging, and I don't really like the word leverage, but let's just say
leverage, um, leveraging people to start building a business, I think.
And they, how can they work?
Yeah.
I think they do it too quick.
It's the old, you know, hiring, hiring out of, out of pain instead of out of gain.
Not being intentional, not knowing what they're gonna do.
I love, um.
I love Dan Martel's book, the, um, buy back, your buy back your time book.
Yeah.
Um, to where he really breaks down to get into the productivity quadrant.
Dan Sullivan has, has a similar, you know, uh, understanding with, um, unique,
unique ability and, uh, but understanding that I'm trying to put myself.
In a position to where I'm spending 70 to 80% of my working time doing
what I'm the best in the world at.
That, um, makes us the company and myself the most amount of
money, but also gives me energy, doesn't rob me of energy, right?
We, we've heard do the time audit, but do the time and energy audit.
And what Dan Sullivan talks about is unique ability and excellent activities.
The only difference is a unique ability is something that gives you
energy, the excellent activities.
Or the exact same, but it doesn't give you energy and it necessarily
doesn't rob you of energy.
So for example, um, you may be world class on listing presentations.
It just doesn't give you any dang energy at all.
Right?
It doesn't really rob you of energy, but it doesn't like excite you.
You're not like even energized after it.
And so, but, but you are a little more energized having a conversation with
an agent or a broker that you're trying to recruit into your organization.
Got it.
We're still gonna put you face to face because that's the most
dollar productive activity, but it's gonna be talking to agents.
Instead of talking to sellers.
Yeah.
So that's kind of the distinction.
That's a little bit of the difference.
Um, and so it's, it's always about getting the right, who's in the right order.
Yeah.
I think understanding too, you only have so many dollars to put
the best team on, on the field.
Um, so I think the evolution is, is now utilizing VAs all over,
all over the world because.
The beautiful thing that came from 2020 was it unlocked the global workforce.
Yeah.
And so finding, you know what, what it is that you're needing based
upon your weaknesses, that you're trying to find people to compliment
you, you only have so many dollars Leverage the global workforce.
Yeah.
And then now kind of the evolution of kind of where we're at is you
better be leveraging the heck out of AI as much as you can.
To help you, but also help the key people that you have to, to collapse time.
And so I think, you know, to your point with, with leverage, it's knowing your
worth and then starting to as soon as you can, um, putting the right pieces,
the right who's in place, um, a little bit before you're comfortable with.
I remember, you know, when kinder, when kinder brought me back on in 2004, he,
you know, he told me at the time, he told me, you know, many years later, he
is like, dude, I couldn't afford you.
But he goes, I couldn't afford not to have you.
Wow.
And, and I think that's the key thing in understanding is that.
You gotta make that just, you'll never be ready, but right when you're
about right, right there, when it's a little uncomfortable, make the hire.
Because if you get the good people around you, they're gonna pull
the things off of your plate for you to reallocate your time.
That's gonna help drive the business forward.
Remember, we want to be doing things that we're the best at.
That helps the company move forward, helps your business move forward.
And does not rob you of energy.
That's what we're trying to get to.
And then it's just building the components around you Yeah.
To allow you to get there.
Awesome.
Now, you spoke about EXV and uh, we just spoke about what brought you
guys here, but what, what has been the impact since you guys been here?
How long has it been and what has been the impact?
I know, I know, but let's, let's talk about it for our
audience.
Yeah.
Man.
Uh, we came over in 2017 and, uh, Al I was, you know, I've been, I've, I've
coached Al since 2011, so I've been co uh, I've been coaching STAs since 2011.
Wow.
And, um, we got him outta production and so he had escaped production and,
you know, he had another endeavor that he was doing and, um, his
top two agents were leaving him.
And so he was really staring right back into the realization that he
had to go back into production.
He's like, I don't wanna do that.
And so about that time, uh, cliff Freeman sends him a little video and says, uh.
Tell me if I'm crazy.
And so he watched it and then he called me and I watched it with him.
And we talked for about, about six more hours.
And then he called Jay, talked to Jay for, for about 12 hours.
Wow.
And, um, he's like, boys, I'm going.
I was like, dude, you gotta make the jump.
You gotta do it, you gotta do it.
It solves all your problems.
It makes, it makes the most sense in the world.
And so he went and, uh, you know, we, we were right there,
right behind him making the move.
And, you know, we were, we were rocking.
We had our own vision.
We had our own.
Um, what we were doing in Texas is called partner, and we were partnering
with agents in market service areas.
Our, our promise was, you know, four new listings a month in
their market service area.
We had a call center, lead generation.
I mean, we were spending, you know, six figures a month on salaries, expenses.
I mean, it was, it was heavy.
And we just saw an opportunity that we could, we could, we could get
rid of all of this and go there.
And remember we made the decision because we believed at the time our BHAG was
2000 partners by like a 10 year mark.
Yeah.
And we're like, oh, wow.
Could we get there faster to partners than trying to do this?
And of course we made the, we made the jump came over and.
Um, 2017 and, uh, of course achieve the, achieve the BHAG,
you know, 18 months later.
Um, and what was gonna take us seven or eight years took us 18
months to be able to achieve.
And I think that's just a, an important lesson.
You know, we didn't lose sight of the vision.
We just found a, a better path, a better way to get there.
And a better engine.
A better engine.
And you know what was really cool?
So, um, 2017.
We went to exp Con, and it was in Fort Lauderdale.
They were just celebrated.
4,000 agents coming over, and there were 400 people at this event.
We had lunch, or excuse me, we had breakfast with, um, at the time the
president was Vicki, um, Bartholomew.
She was the, she was the president of EXP at the time.
So you were not part of the XP yet, or were you already part of the XP that time?
We hadn't joined yet.
We were just, we, we had went Brent, Brent Gove.
Um, Brent, Brent made us, Brent made us come.
And um, then we had lunch with um, uh, Glenn and Jason.
And so kinder and I are sitting directly across, and this, I, I can't make this up.
This is in the back room of the downstairs in the Fort Lauderdale
hotel that we were having exp Con, and it was straight out of a a mob movie.
And, and you know, you got the kitchen banging over here and
we're at this big long round table.
We're sitting right across from Jason and Glen.
You got gov, you've got Sta, you've got Ash.
You just, just, there's So Ryan, really, there's just all these people.
Alex was, Pak was there just all of us around the table and we got to listen
to Glen talk about the vision that he had and remember him saying, you know.
Selling real estate is just gonna be like what?
Selling, what Amazon, you know, selling books is to Amazon.
That's just kind of what this is gonna be.
It's gonna be continuation.
We're gonna have this, this, this, this, and this was in September of, of 2017.
And
fast forward, I remember sitting in shareholders in, in Orlando in 2018.
Tex and Kinder going, this MOFO is executing exactly on
what he said he was gonna do.
The vision of exp faster and better than anybody I've ever seen, any
organizations we've ever been a part of.
And, and keep in mind, I mean NAEA that year, we did 10
million in revenue that year.
Mm-hmm.
Wow.
We were $10 million company.
Yeah.
We shut down.
We believed in the vision and we saw that we could achieve our dreams being a
part of the vision of exp, of what Glen talked about, and that's why I, I cannot
stress enough that if you're building a company or an organization, you have to
make sure your vision is so big that the people come on board believe they can
achieve their dreams being a part of it.
We believe that we could achieve our dreams by being a part of the vision
that Glenn had laid out with exp. Um, and that's the deciding factor.
Vision is so, so important because, um, without, without a
vision, the village will perish.
And it's, it's important that you have the vision for your life.
And, and sometimes, you know, it's, it's okay that.
You're not the one driving the vision and it's okay that you can
be a part of somebody's vision.
Just as long as there's, the vision is big enough for you to achieve what
it is that you're wanting to achieve.
As long as I get to my vision, I don't care who's driving.
Like that's right.
There are out there team leaders out there, brokers out there, oh, I
already know exp someone pitched me.
You know, what are they missing out on?
Or, you know, what should they, why should they pay attention now more than ever?
I mean, you know, the beautiful thing.
It, it, it's a, it's a platform that allows you to design and build the
business that, that you want to build, um, with the, the most amount of support.
I, I was talking with somebody last night.
EXPs done an incredible job to support the individual agents at a, at a really,
really high level, and they're starting to do really, really well to support
the bigger teams and team team leads.
It's a buffet, and I think the beautiful thing about exp is that you can go
get whatever you need and whatever you want given the season of where
you're at in your career, wherever the season you're at in your business.
There's no other place that does that.
Yeah.
I mean, it provides multiple revenue streams, but to me it
also gives you the foundation and flexibility to do whatever you want.
Right?
You look at like, um, these, these, these other agents and these
businesses that are at exp, but they're also partners with place.
Like yeah.
Where else can you go and, and still mathematically make sense to do things.
To where you can bolt on different types of structures and different,
different type of models, then you can at exp, I've got a lot of great agents.
A lot of great friends that are at some of the other cloud-based.
I mean, cloud-based is, is the direction.
I think the other legacy companies will sunset at some point or
it'll be interesting to see kind of acquisitions or plays or moves
with, with them into the future.
But it's already happening, happening
within themselves, right?
Like they're like, we're not gonna flip to cloud base and, and fold.
We're just gonna buy each other.
Let's buy each other.
I think so.
Yeah, it'll be really interesting.
I think there'll be a lot of sun setting.
I think you've got a lot of agents that will just ride off into the
sunset under those, and you'll start to see 'em kind of, kind of fade.
Um, but no matter what, man, it's just, like I said earlier, I mean,
we, we need healthy competition.
We need these other companies to be successful, to push us, to
continue to evolve and be the best.
And, and they've just done such an incredible job with the flexibility
and, and, uh, default back to this.
One of the things that kind of took away from that conversation
in Fort Lauderdale that I started to see in, in Orlando the following
year, core values are everything.
I mean, when you, when you break apart, what, what is a vision?
A vision is, you know, starts with what you value, um, what
are your shoulds and should nots.
And a couple of the things that I saw obviously was the agile core value with
exp, but the other one that, that really.
Resonated with me was, was sustainability and when I started to see proof of them
making decisions that were sustainable to the organization in the health long term.
Yeah, because you're either starting a business for forever or you're
starting a business to build and sell.
Yeah, there you go.
This, this business be like, oh, I'm gonna be in the business forever no matter what.
So exp is,
they ain't going nowhere, right?
Yeah.
That's not, that's not why they're being built.
That's not the decisions they make.
They're not trying to get as, as, as big a value so that they can sell.
It's this is it sustainability.
And when you started seeing proof in the decisions that were
long-term sustainable decisions.
You know?
Yeah.
I'm, I'm so, so, so big on the core values.
So what I always tell people is like, listen, you know, what's
the vision of that organization?
What are their core values?
Do you align or do you not align?
If you, if you don't align, don't stay there.
Yeah.
If you do align, stay there, and you believe in the leadership, you
believe in the vision, then you're in a good spot no matter what.
Even if it's a legacy company, you believe in the vision,
you align to the core values.
It's, it's taking where you wanna
go.
You're, you're achieving your dreams within that.
Stay, stay put.
But if you're looking for a way, um, that allows you to collaborate with
the best of the best, um, I don't, I don't, it's, it's tough to say
that there's a, a better spot than.
We're at right now.
Awesome.
And, and, and I know we are running out of time here.
I'm not sure what's your hard stop at, but, um, no model's.
Perfect.
Let's not pretend like we are
right?
No.
And, and even if we have to just have this conversation between me
and you and off the record, right.
We'll just keep it in inside of our podcast, right.
What are some challenges agents should be aware of when adapting to this structure?
Or I guess like what can EXP get better at?
Yeah.
Well, from an agent perspective, um.
If, if you are, if you struggle with, you know, self-discipline, self-motivation
can be a little bit of a struggle, right?
Um, I always tell agents like, listen, if you're really serious about this
and serious about this as a career.
You've gotta get on a team.
If you're doing less than two deals a month on average, I mean,
if you're doing 15 to 20 deals and you're trying to break through, go
collapse time, go get on a great team.
What's their vision?
What are their core values?
What, you know, where's the alignment?
How do they help me, support me?
How do they do those things?
Go get on a team because it, it relieves a lot of pressure off of you.
And it's funny, I was running through this with a, a couple different scenarios,
understand customer acquisition cost.
And, and so I was running through this, uh, with, with
longtime clients and friends.
Average transaction 67 50 customer acquisition cost is a, is is 1150.
Well, on a 50 50 split, the agents put more money in their pocket than the
team lead is on a 50 50 split because of the customer acquisition cost.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And, and so get on a great, get on a great team.
Um, if, if you struggle with self-discipline and self start.
That's key.
Get on, get on that and, and, and do that.
So, um, I think that's where.
Being able to, to combine and, um, you know, get into a healthy
environment to allow you to be, uh, the most productive as possible.
That's, that's where agents need to lean in on, you know, and I,
and as far as where, where can the, the company get better?
I mean, I think they're, they're open to, to the feedback, to being
in a, in a feedback rich environ.
Um, I know they make deci a lot of decisions based upon the net
promoter score of listening to what boots on the ground is actually
giving and making adjustments that is sustainable for the long term.
Yeah.
So I think, you know, you as an agent, um, just know that you have a voice
and being able to give that feedback, um, utilize it, utilize, utilize your
voice, I think is is super important.
Awesome.
And where do you see the last question?
Okay, brown.
Where do you see the real estate industry is moving towards?
Where is this heading and how are, how, how should agents prepare to build the
business that lasts into the future?
Yeah.
Um, I think the knowledge based, you know, agent, the agent that is, um,
you know, providing valuable content.
Stages that are thriving right now have a consistent, valuable
presence on social media.
Because social right now, that's just making everything else easier.
But I think you've gotta be able to position yourself as, as an
authority, as a true expert.
I think you've gotta be educating, educating, educating, because that's what
buyers and sellers are gonna want to know.
I think you've gotta operate from the framework of what value am I providing
that the consumer can't get on their own.
Hmm.
Um, I think the shift that we'll start to see with ai.
Is, uh, you know, we're, we're trying to be like, oh, how can we
be more efficient utilizing ai?
Well, we also have to think that the consumer's going to evolve and
how are they going to be, yeah.
What's their behavior going to be like utilizing AI to buy and sell their homes?
Hmm.
That's where you've gotta put your shoes in the, in, in, you gotta
put yourself in the shoes of the consumer and how do they behave?
And you've gotta be adjusting your, your business, your strategies, your
marketing in alignment to the human behavior, and, and you just, you
gotta match and build your model.
I think that's why.
Adopt being, being flexible, being agile, whatever it is, we always just
say, be like Gumby for those that are old enough to know what Gumby is.
So be be like Gumby, be flexible.
Um, I think reread, if you haven't read Who Moved My Cheese, go, go
reread and reread Who Moved My Cheese.
I think you're gonna have to understand the flexibility, being agile, but always
putting yourself in, in, in the shoes of the consumer and how are they behaving and
how is AI gonna change their behavior in the home buying and home selling process.
That's, that's where we've gotta be positioned.
That's where we've gotta get ourselves out to.
Um.
If we really wanna put ourselves in a position to thrive beyond the next four
or five years, um, within this industry.
Awesome.
Thank you.
Thanks for that advice.
Thanks for all the value you have brought to this conversation.
John, it's been a pleasure.
Uh, those of you who are on social platforms on YouTube, follow John.
He is.
He is always active.
It's a lot of value to provide and if you, if you, if you have found value
from this conversation, definitely reach out to him if you need something.
Uh,
this
has been an incredible conversation about breaking through your
business roadblocks and building a future proof real estate business.
And now for our audience, if you are struggling with consistency, you're
struggling with mindset or just trying to generate more opportunities without
the traditional ways that cold calling or spending money on ads, even,
uh, we have got something for you.
We are doing a five day brand challenge using ai.
To design your, uh, magnetic brand to help you attract leads effortlessly
with, uh, magnetic marketing strategies that actually work so
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Uh, if you're ready to create a brand that generates opportunities, reach out.
I'm gonna put a link down on this video for you to register for that challenge.
Let's build a business that thrives in any market.
Now more than ever, you need to pivot and you need to start leveraging
strategies that work for today.
Thank you, John.
Thanks for everything.
Awesome, man.
Thank you.
Appreciate you brother.
Alright, we'll see you.
See you.
Thanks for tuning in.
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