1 00:00:00,180 --> 00:00:02,160 You're listening to a very special podcast, episode 2 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:11,327 778, February 2nd, 2020 6:00 3 00:00:11,327 --> 00:00:16,357 Hello and welcome to a 4 00:00:18,627 --> 00:00:22,620 VerySpatial podcast. 5 00:00:22,620 --> 00:00:23,160 I'm Jesse. 6 00:00:23,700 --> 00:00:23,820 I'm Sue. 7 00:00:25,005 --> 00:00:25,544 I am Barb, 8 00:00:25,665 --> 00:00:26,355 and this is Frank. 9 00:00:26,415 --> 00:00:30,015 And this week we're gonna be talking about things related to the news. 10 00:00:30,555 --> 00:00:32,504 But first, the news. 11 00:00:32,955 --> 00:00:35,504 We of course, found out recently that Dr. 12 00:00:35,504 --> 00:00:37,935 Gladys West passed away at age of 95. 13 00:00:37,935 --> 00:00:42,145 She, of course is remembered mostly from her representation 14 00:00:42,535 --> 00:00:43,585 in the movie Hidden Figures. 15 00:00:43,585 --> 00:00:47,585 But for us as the person who had a huge impact on. 16 00:00:48,755 --> 00:00:52,715 Do the calculations related to the OID that is us, the Earth. 17 00:00:53,325 --> 00:00:57,495 You know, she had a huge impact on GPS and King will continue to, of course, 18 00:00:57,495 --> 00:00:59,895 forever 'cause it was that base work. 19 00:01:00,685 --> 00:01:05,805 In mathematics that she helped do that and did that allowed it 20 00:01:05,805 --> 00:01:07,485 to work and continue to work. 21 00:01:08,085 --> 00:01:08,805 Yeah, it's very sad. 22 00:01:08,835 --> 00:01:11,985 I mean, she was 95, so, it's amazing. 23 00:01:13,005 --> 00:01:17,205 What's amazing to me is when you read through her biographies and 24 00:01:17,205 --> 00:01:21,355 a lot of times coming out of like the local papers, like, D Witty. 25 00:01:21,895 --> 00:01:23,305 County where she was born. 26 00:01:23,785 --> 00:01:28,795 She was very productive throughout her whole life and her research with GPS, 27 00:01:28,795 --> 00:01:37,365 global positioning systems and geodyssey just contributing up to her biography. 28 00:01:37,395 --> 00:01:39,795 It began with a dream in 2020 and beyond. 29 00:01:39,795 --> 00:01:39,825 I 30 00:01:40,155 --> 00:01:42,045 just muted everything so you could blow your nose and then 31 00:01:42,045 --> 00:01:42,675 you didn't blow your nose. 32 00:01:43,215 --> 00:01:48,295 Most of this week is a theme continuing on with the theme of GNSS. 33 00:01:49,195 --> 00:01:56,285 The Space Force has launched GP S3 SVO nine, and that was successfully 34 00:01:56,285 --> 00:01:58,685 launched on the 27th of January. 35 00:01:58,715 --> 00:02:04,725 And so that's another satellite on its way to the Constellation for GPS. 36 00:02:04,725 --> 00:02:08,425 And of course GPS three continued to build out. 37 00:02:09,170 --> 00:02:12,620 Or continues to build out capabilities, making it a little more robust and 38 00:02:12,620 --> 00:02:17,615 resilient to things like jamming and such, but also adding those bands that 39 00:02:17,615 --> 00:02:18,995 are a little bit more commercial focused. 40 00:02:18,995 --> 00:02:23,275 So it's good to see that constellation continues to grow. 41 00:02:23,815 --> 00:02:30,105 And SV zero nine is named in honor of Colonel Ellison Zuka a US Air Force 42 00:02:30,105 --> 00:02:35,635 test pilot who was an astronaut that was aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger. 43 00:02:35,995 --> 00:02:40,225 That, you know, from 1986, celebrating that anniversary. 44 00:02:40,555 --> 00:02:46,595 Continuing with the Space Force slash gnss theme space Force has canceled their. 45 00:02:47,465 --> 00:02:54,305 Call for, well work towards work with various organizations to look at small 46 00:02:54,305 --> 00:02:56,435 SATs as a way to put up low cost. 47 00:02:57,435 --> 00:03:01,125 Support mechanisms to make a more resilient GPS system. 48 00:03:01,575 --> 00:03:06,115 So as opposed to having to spend the billions or hundreds of millions 49 00:03:06,115 --> 00:03:11,615 of dollars per satellite for each GPS satellite this would've allowed 50 00:03:11,615 --> 00:03:16,865 for small SATs to kind of be put into place to support and kind of, 51 00:03:16,945 --> 00:03:19,585 I don't know, basically offset the. 52 00:03:20,230 --> 00:03:24,560 Issues if we were to begin to lose satellites or deal with some 53 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,350 of the jamming issues that are becoming more common nowadays. 54 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:28,910 So that has been canceled. 55 00:03:29,780 --> 00:03:33,840 I mean, that, that's disappointing because of course we were just in 56 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,900 the previous news item talking about the ninth launch in the GPS three. 57 00:03:38,725 --> 00:03:43,705 Series, but the number of GPS satellites is, it's a big constellation 58 00:03:43,705 --> 00:03:46,855 and it's expensive to maintain, expensive to get them up there. 59 00:03:47,225 --> 00:03:49,805 And when you do have problems with them, there are backup satellites. 60 00:03:49,805 --> 00:03:54,734 So I think the current is 27 in the working constellation, but 31 satellites. 61 00:03:54,734 --> 00:03:59,355 So you do have some backup, but if the satellites go outta commission 62 00:03:59,355 --> 00:04:03,314 and you drop below a certain number, then you lose coverage. 63 00:04:03,314 --> 00:04:06,494 And so having the sort of nimble, a more nimble way. 64 00:04:06,999 --> 00:04:11,869 To supplement when and occasionally do have some signal issues as we all 65 00:04:11,869 --> 00:04:14,539 know, having used gps and other gnss. 66 00:04:15,159 --> 00:04:17,169 So I think that's disappointing. 67 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:18,130 Maybe they'll bring it back. 68 00:04:18,130 --> 00:04:19,390 Maybe it's just a partial thing. 69 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,820 It's hard to say anymore what's going on with stuff, but, 70 00:04:22,180 --> 00:04:23,720 well, but I think that it's. 71 00:04:24,615 --> 00:04:27,165 I'm gonna use the word dangerous to presume there's 72 00:04:27,165 --> 00:04:30,645 any rationality necessarily driving a lot of this right now. 73 00:04:31,055 --> 00:04:35,195 So I, I don't think there's a cohesive thought process. 74 00:04:36,244 --> 00:04:37,145 Or strategy. 75 00:04:37,775 --> 00:04:41,734 So that's probably why, who knows what the hell's gonna happen. 76 00:04:42,184 --> 00:04:45,950 I'm just saying that if a certain communications satellite small 77 00:04:45,950 --> 00:04:50,869 set array that recently announced itself as being an alternative to 78 00:04:50,869 --> 00:04:52,549 GPS suddenly gets another contract. 79 00:04:54,094 --> 00:04:54,484 You wouldn't be 80 00:04:54,484 --> 00:04:54,874 shocked. 81 00:04:55,054 --> 00:04:56,945 Be the resilient aspect. 82 00:04:57,364 --> 00:04:57,484 Yes. 83 00:04:57,994 --> 00:04:58,205 Yeah. 84 00:04:58,205 --> 00:04:58,414 No. 85 00:04:58,445 --> 00:04:58,775 Yes. 86 00:04:58,924 --> 00:04:59,075 So, 87 00:04:59,135 --> 00:05:03,525 Given that they put in a request to launch a million satellites, I 88 00:05:03,525 --> 00:05:06,554 think over the next, I don't even remember how long it's gonna be. 89 00:05:07,314 --> 00:05:10,554 So yeah, we'll see how that plays out. 90 00:05:11,015 --> 00:05:17,015 With those two things kind of coming out at the same time and to round up the. 91 00:05:17,990 --> 00:05:23,629 GNSS slash location aspect of these news items before we move on to 92 00:05:23,629 --> 00:05:30,179 one that's not TikTok, which is now bifurcated into TikTok and TikTok us. 93 00:05:30,489 --> 00:05:36,369 TikTok, US terms of service include detailed location data for users. 94 00:05:36,909 --> 00:05:40,359 This of course is something that it should and has traditionally 95 00:05:40,359 --> 00:05:41,769 been an opt-in option. 96 00:05:41,769 --> 00:05:43,269 It wasn't something necessarily. 97 00:05:43,764 --> 00:05:45,174 Being stored and saved. 98 00:05:45,204 --> 00:05:48,414 Of course it would be attached to the media whenever it got 99 00:05:48,414 --> 00:05:50,074 uploaded in certain cases. 100 00:05:50,464 --> 00:05:55,404 There's a lot of questions I think, around what's gonna happen with TikTok us given 101 00:05:55,404 --> 00:05:59,124 its terms of service, but there's so many people who are addicted at this point 102 00:05:59,124 --> 00:06:01,074 who wouldn't want to leave the platform. 103 00:06:01,164 --> 00:06:04,764 I'm just, I don't think it's gonna have a notable impact. 104 00:06:05,724 --> 00:06:07,974 I can't say that those sort of things added to any of the other 105 00:06:07,974 --> 00:06:11,874 social media seemed to have hampered it in any meaningful. 106 00:06:12,264 --> 00:06:12,774 Way. 107 00:06:13,404 --> 00:06:17,799 The thing that always concerns me, particularly with the kids meaning the 108 00:06:17,799 --> 00:06:23,899 students interact with is how many are just utterly they just don't realize 109 00:06:23,989 --> 00:06:25,939 that what they're agreeing to do. 110 00:06:27,049 --> 00:06:28,849 I mean, none of us read the terms of service. 111 00:06:28,909 --> 00:06:29,389 Let's be fair 112 00:06:29,389 --> 00:06:35,419 now, but, you know, and the indifference to say, ah. 113 00:06:36,124 --> 00:06:38,944 Which I guess you know, this, we can touch a bit of this on the topic, but 114 00:06:39,334 --> 00:06:42,684 so it is something, even if you don't wanna read the whole terms of service, 115 00:06:42,684 --> 00:06:44,874 'cause there's a whole bunch of junk in there that nobody cares about. 116 00:06:45,254 --> 00:06:48,014 Just be aware, you could probably find a summary somewhere. 117 00:06:48,344 --> 00:06:48,734 Yes. 118 00:06:48,764 --> 00:06:49,814 Somebody has read it 119 00:06:51,614 --> 00:06:53,024 and posted it on Reddit. 120 00:06:53,684 --> 00:06:54,014 Sorry, 121 00:06:54,284 --> 00:06:55,244 I'm so sorry. 122 00:06:55,754 --> 00:06:56,654 I see what you did there. 123 00:06:57,999 --> 00:07:01,989 I didn't post it 'cause I have to verify it, but I thought, I saw a news story 124 00:07:01,989 --> 00:07:06,289 where someone did read all the terms of a, of service for one of the mobile 125 00:07:06,289 --> 00:07:09,439 apps and they were able to like, get a free vacation out of it or something. 126 00:07:09,439 --> 00:07:10,819 So I need to verify that. 127 00:07:10,819 --> 00:07:15,499 But it was, you know, written in small print for someone that had read everything 128 00:07:15,499 --> 00:07:16,549 and they got a settlement or something. 129 00:07:16,549 --> 00:07:18,394 Anyway it's one of those stories. 130 00:07:18,754 --> 00:07:19,594 And finally, 131 00:07:20,079 --> 00:07:22,309 And finally, so Google Labs and. 132 00:07:23,284 --> 00:07:29,294 I am not sure where this debuted but Google has released a preview and a 133 00:07:29,294 --> 00:07:32,264 little test demo for Project Genie. 134 00:07:32,684 --> 00:07:38,594 And so for all of us who work in 3D modeling, I guess game, even game 135 00:07:38,594 --> 00:07:42,324 development, all kinds of things, right at first this seems pretty amazing. 136 00:07:42,984 --> 00:07:46,794 On the downside, I, you can't really play with it because I other, I don't remember 137 00:07:46,854 --> 00:07:49,914 as many tools being like this, but maybe this is just a sign of the times if 138 00:07:49,914 --> 00:07:52,054 you even wanna play with project Genie. 139 00:07:52,054 --> 00:07:55,334 So what it does is you put into prompt and it generates a world 140 00:07:55,334 --> 00:07:56,564 that you can navigate around it. 141 00:07:56,564 --> 00:07:59,534 So it's already got the camera navigation, it'll generate the models. 142 00:07:59,874 --> 00:08:00,984 You can move around. 143 00:08:01,224 --> 00:08:04,024 And then this is just from previews because if you wanna try it. 144 00:08:04,659 --> 00:08:06,879 It's $125 us to try. 145 00:08:06,969 --> 00:08:07,329 Okay. 146 00:08:07,329 --> 00:08:12,069 So you have to have Google's AI Ultra subscription tier, which 147 00:08:12,069 --> 00:08:14,319 Sue is pointing out, is $120 148 00:08:14,559 --> 00:08:14,757 twenty 149 00:08:14,757 --> 00:08:16,989 five, a hundred twenty $5 for the first three months. 150 00:08:16,989 --> 00:08:22,149 It is $50 a month subscription platform tier if you're interested. 151 00:08:22,149 --> 00:08:27,764 So even if you have pro plus you don't get access to project Genie 152 00:08:27,764 --> 00:08:29,954 currently at least as it's in. 153 00:08:30,029 --> 00:08:32,589 It's early beta stage, I guess. 154 00:08:33,369 --> 00:08:33,669 Yes. 155 00:08:33,669 --> 00:08:36,619 And there are some demo videos and even if you get it right now, you 156 00:08:36,619 --> 00:08:40,999 can create little videos, but it essentially uses AI prompts and you can 157 00:08:40,999 --> 00:08:45,079 use images as well to generate these worlds that you can navigate around in. 158 00:08:45,899 --> 00:08:49,869 And so for those of us in the world building sort of, area, 159 00:08:50,139 --> 00:08:52,869 on the one hand it's pretty, pretty amazing that we're there. 160 00:08:53,119 --> 00:08:55,609 But it's a little bit hard to kinda gauge the. 161 00:08:56,764 --> 00:08:59,374 Gauge that where they're going with the tools, since it's restricted. 162 00:09:00,724 --> 00:09:04,804 So let's be honest, it's gonna be Google's latest amazing thing 163 00:09:04,804 --> 00:09:06,184 gets canceled in no time at all. 164 00:09:06,664 --> 00:09:07,114 Well, it 165 00:09:07,114 --> 00:09:08,404 depends if they've got a history. 166 00:09:08,854 --> 00:09:09,274 Yeah. 167 00:09:09,334 --> 00:09:13,714 But I mean, it hasn't been released broadly other than to ultra subscribers. 168 00:09:13,714 --> 00:09:16,904 And again it's one of those where it probably is eating 169 00:09:16,904 --> 00:09:19,574 up a lot of tokens to do that. 170 00:09:19,574 --> 00:09:21,519 So I guess I kinda get. 171 00:09:22,184 --> 00:09:28,524 That, but to announce it and then not even give an easy access to do a one trial. 172 00:09:28,979 --> 00:09:29,269 Yeah. 173 00:09:29,274 --> 00:09:29,544 Yeah. 174 00:09:29,724 --> 00:09:30,354 That's the weird part. 175 00:09:30,404 --> 00:09:34,104 And then the second thing is that this is going to end up making a 176 00:09:34,104 --> 00:09:38,334 whole lot of, I think it's gonna end up making a whole lot of worlds that 177 00:09:38,334 --> 00:09:40,164 it's gonna, the game's gonna be spot. 178 00:09:40,164 --> 00:09:42,054 The weird thing that. 179 00:09:42,429 --> 00:09:43,359 You just go, okay. 180 00:09:43,359 --> 00:09:46,959 But like, that's not how mailboxes work or whatever, you know, it's 181 00:09:46,959 --> 00:09:50,269 gonna be something in there that you just go no, that's just like 182 00:09:50,269 --> 00:09:52,039 a dream or something, you know? 183 00:09:52,219 --> 00:09:52,429 Yeah. 184 00:09:52,459 --> 00:09:52,969 Version. 185 00:09:53,444 --> 00:09:57,534 I mean, it I will point out that it isn't creating the game. 186 00:09:57,534 --> 00:09:59,334 It is just creating the world. 187 00:09:59,904 --> 00:10:01,974 So yes, you get the camera, you get the character, you 188 00:10:01,974 --> 00:10:04,364 get the world, but it doesn't. 189 00:10:05,219 --> 00:10:10,059 Anything I've seen on it so far has not given any story 190 00:10:10,059 --> 00:10:11,439 elements, anything like that. 191 00:10:11,439 --> 00:10:13,119 It's just here it is. 192 00:10:13,119 --> 00:10:15,099 You can wander through it type of situation. 193 00:10:15,159 --> 00:10:15,219 Yeah. 194 00:10:15,219 --> 00:10:16,959 I'm sure it'll grow at in time. 195 00:10:16,959 --> 00:10:21,429 And of course the fact, if you can pull this into Unreal or Unity or 196 00:10:21,909 --> 00:10:27,104 whatever your preferred engine is gonna gto, then yeah, you can probably 197 00:10:27,314 --> 00:10:31,724 begin to put those elements in yourself by building on this model. 198 00:10:31,724 --> 00:10:32,024 But. 199 00:10:32,414 --> 00:10:33,794 Yeah, right now it's just the model. 200 00:10:34,334 --> 00:10:34,574 Yeah. 201 00:10:35,294 --> 00:10:37,334 And there's no way to, I mean, like in the early preview, 202 00:10:37,334 --> 00:10:38,444 you can't export or anything. 203 00:10:38,444 --> 00:10:40,879 You can just, I guess, create a, well, we know it. 204 00:10:40,879 --> 00:10:41,199 We dunno. 205 00:10:41,654 --> 00:10:42,164 We dunno. 206 00:10:42,524 --> 00:10:44,474 So it's hard to tell what the end game is. 207 00:10:45,224 --> 00:10:49,694 Yeah, looking at the gallery, it's sort of like street view, but for a 208 00:10:49,694 --> 00:10:54,174 world builder you can be in the Amazon, you know, aviator, you're a parrot 209 00:10:54,654 --> 00:10:57,364 exploring the canopy of a rainforest. 210 00:10:57,394 --> 00:11:01,984 You know, it doesn't say where, and I can't really tell how accurate it is. 211 00:11:02,314 --> 00:11:06,964 And you can be a paper plane flying over a waterfall and then even a 212 00:11:06,964 --> 00:11:10,639 small little clay ladybug, it looks like going through your world. 213 00:11:11,669 --> 00:11:12,599 It looks really good. 214 00:11:12,599 --> 00:11:16,979 It's just like he said, oh, a cat on a vacuum, you know, can't 215 00:11:16,979 --> 00:11:18,059 really tell what it is yet. 216 00:11:18,719 --> 00:11:21,569 And so that's it for the news. 217 00:11:32,519 --> 00:11:34,139 And onto the web corner. 218 00:11:34,649 --> 00:11:39,579 There is a site that I really like to get their newsletters from because 219 00:11:39,579 --> 00:11:41,499 it is City as a living laboratory. 220 00:11:41,779 --> 00:11:45,885 It is a project that's been around since 2013 working with cities like New 221 00:11:45,885 --> 00:11:50,359 York City and Milwaukee to really bring together the spatial community, artists, 222 00:11:50,359 --> 00:11:53,910 scientists and do some ground level. 223 00:11:54,390 --> 00:11:55,860 Work in a city. 224 00:11:56,020 --> 00:12:00,739 And it's generated things like handwritten, hand-drawn maps even 225 00:12:00,739 --> 00:12:03,560 map tattoos of, you know, the rivers. 226 00:12:03,870 --> 00:12:08,340 And so it's still open for any cities or anyone working in an area 227 00:12:08,620 --> 00:12:10,060 where they want to get involved. 228 00:12:10,340 --> 00:12:14,230 I just like to get, look at it for some inspiration and some of the projects 229 00:12:14,260 --> 00:12:15,700 and material that they make available. 230 00:12:16,655 --> 00:12:18,185 For other urban areas to use. 231 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:39,380 Okay, so this week, given the preponderance of GNSS related. 232 00:12:40,445 --> 00:12:41,885 Items in our news. 233 00:12:42,395 --> 00:12:44,735 Might as well just talk about location based services, right? 234 00:12:44,835 --> 00:12:47,745 Where we are, kind of the state of things where we think 235 00:12:47,745 --> 00:12:49,185 we're going in the near future. 236 00:12:49,185 --> 00:12:53,425 Maybe it's probably gonna be a shorter conversation, but just one to. 237 00:12:54,070 --> 00:12:57,850 Come back around to after a little while, and we spent so much time 238 00:12:58,180 --> 00:13:02,320 saying this year will be the year of location-based services whenever we were 239 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:06,280 first starting and now they're just so integrated into our daily lives that, 240 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:14,455 you know, it's a very stark difference for us, for people less aged than us. 241 00:13:16,450 --> 00:13:17,050 It is, yeah. 242 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:17,950 Just the norm, right? 243 00:13:17,950 --> 00:13:19,030 It's where we are. 244 00:13:19,030 --> 00:13:20,440 It's what you've always known. 245 00:13:20,660 --> 00:13:23,270 For anybody who's under the age of, I don't know, 30 246 00:13:23,730 --> 00:13:24,840 it's just kind of been there, 247 00:13:25,530 --> 00:13:28,290 you know, I haven't even go as far as to say almost 40. 248 00:13:29,100 --> 00:13:29,640 I mean, 249 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,300 yeah, I mean, they would've been 20 whenever these things started to really 250 00:13:33,300 --> 00:13:34,920 push them their way out, so, yeah. 251 00:13:35,430 --> 00:13:35,580 That's 252 00:13:35,580 --> 00:13:35,790 fair. 253 00:13:35,850 --> 00:13:37,395 I mean, it's just, they're just so. 254 00:13:38,355 --> 00:13:42,015 Ubiquitous now that and the interesting thing to me is that we don't call 255 00:13:42,015 --> 00:13:45,495 them location based services for the most part I mean in the popular 256 00:13:45,895 --> 00:13:50,845 vernacular, but knowing where you're at and what's around you is just 257 00:13:50,995 --> 00:13:54,695 it's just part of the technology and no matter what you're using. 258 00:13:56,375 --> 00:13:59,495 It's a little weird when you have an app that doesn't use location-based services. 259 00:13:59,495 --> 00:14:03,695 Sometimes it's just like, it's, and it's just weird that it's so ubiquitous. 260 00:14:03,735 --> 00:14:08,425 And there's some funny things I read funny to me on subreddits at various 261 00:14:08,425 --> 00:14:12,155 points talking about you know, why are you telling me directions or 262 00:14:12,155 --> 00:14:16,475 asking, you know, why did people really stop and ask directions on how 263 00:14:16,475 --> 00:14:18,035 to get to this place or that place? 264 00:14:18,245 --> 00:14:19,415 Like it was the. 265 00:14:19,910 --> 00:14:22,640 Weirdest, most arcane thing these people had ever heard. 266 00:14:22,970 --> 00:14:24,260 Why don't you just choose the GPS? 267 00:14:24,740 --> 00:14:29,240 And that was, you know, that was a little bit just like, my God, that's 268 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,410 a wholly different way of thinking because I got very good at giving 269 00:14:33,410 --> 00:14:36,110 directions when people would stop me, Hey, where's the post office? 270 00:14:36,110 --> 00:14:36,440 Or whatever. 271 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,210 I go, okay, this is exactly what you wanna do. 272 00:14:38,990 --> 00:14:42,350 And that's just a skill that most kids, most people, I say kids, most 273 00:14:42,350 --> 00:14:45,590 people don't have anymore because you just don't need it for the most part. 274 00:14:46,175 --> 00:14:49,775 What's interesting to me is the explosion of location based services, like Frank 275 00:14:49,775 --> 00:14:55,905 said, not labeled that way outside the spatial community as an industry where 276 00:14:55,905 --> 00:15:00,195 the innovation isn't in the location based 277 00:15:02,325 --> 00:15:08,295 of the app itself or the tool itself, but in actually what people can do with that. 278 00:15:09,165 --> 00:15:12,375 Basically selling that information or gathering that information, but then 279 00:15:12,375 --> 00:15:17,500 not in the way that we normally think of it as an analysis or being able to do 280 00:15:17,500 --> 00:15:19,300 something or make a decision based on it. 281 00:15:19,610 --> 00:15:22,280 That it's almost the product itself is that collection. 282 00:15:22,590 --> 00:15:26,880 But I don't think we could get there without the accuracy that we have now. 283 00:15:26,910 --> 00:15:29,185 So I think we've almost got two different. 284 00:15:30,345 --> 00:15:34,525 You know, location-based service worlds you know, one in which 285 00:15:34,525 --> 00:15:35,935 we're doing the functionality. 286 00:15:35,965 --> 00:15:40,115 And then the other one, which is the people as the product. 287 00:15:40,925 --> 00:15:43,825 Does anyone else think it's weird that like, the last, I don't know 288 00:15:44,335 --> 00:15:48,415 how many iPhones they never, it doesn't like they're doing anything 289 00:15:48,985 --> 00:15:51,325 about the location accuracy. 290 00:15:52,795 --> 00:15:53,695 They don't really talk about it. 291 00:15:53,695 --> 00:15:55,345 I'm talking about the hardware side of things, not it's. 292 00:15:57,370 --> 00:16:01,660 Not necessarily on, you know, making apple maps better or something like that. 293 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:02,830 You know, just 294 00:16:03,100 --> 00:16:06,110 maybe that's a function of growing into the system, right? 295 00:16:06,110 --> 00:16:09,200 That the bulk of the uterus, those of us at the beginning, who knew that 296 00:16:09,230 --> 00:16:10,730 there was a way to make it better. 297 00:16:11,690 --> 00:16:12,050 Right? 298 00:16:12,410 --> 00:16:14,480 Because I remember back, so this is the thing back when I 299 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,040 first started using GPS, right? 300 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,400 It like with the handheld receivers, you could get access to and even. 301 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:20,770 Even the military base. 302 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,260 'cause I think I've said before on the podcast, I spent some time 303 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,440 doing surveys on a military base as a civilian contractor, but we 304 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,420 had access to the handheld devices. 305 00:16:29,420 --> 00:16:33,080 So even those on a given day could be woefully inaccurate. 306 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:34,880 And we just kinda adapted to it. 307 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,200 And that's even like in the specialized space. 308 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:38,280 But as these became. 309 00:16:38,685 --> 00:16:39,645 More ubiquitous. 310 00:16:39,645 --> 00:16:45,495 I guess the trade-off is for when it's usually right versus well, all right. 311 00:16:45,495 --> 00:16:48,105 We still have some mistakes, and now it's just one of those things that you 312 00:16:48,105 --> 00:16:52,095 deal with and move on unless you get a sensational case, right, of somebody 313 00:16:52,095 --> 00:16:53,955 followed their GPS into the lake. 314 00:16:53,955 --> 00:16:54,255 Right. 315 00:16:54,255 --> 00:16:55,125 You know, kind of thing. 316 00:16:55,475 --> 00:16:59,165 So I mean, I just wonder if our tolerance has just. 317 00:16:59,925 --> 00:17:02,895 It's just increased, and so we don't point it out as much. 318 00:17:03,495 --> 00:17:06,975 What prompted me this is that often when I'm giving lectures, talk about, you 319 00:17:06,975 --> 00:17:11,595 know, accuracy and how it matters and we have a surveying program on our campus. 320 00:17:11,595 --> 00:17:14,835 And so sometimes you're talking to surveyors and you say, okay, well, 321 00:17:14,835 --> 00:17:17,445 you know, you pick out your phone and you say, well, this thing is 322 00:17:17,445 --> 00:17:20,505 accurate too, and I've usually stick my arms out in either direction 323 00:17:20,505 --> 00:17:21,765 and go, it's about that accurate. 324 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,670 And you know, that matters for, that's perfectly fine for most people. 325 00:17:25,670 --> 00:17:26,330 In most cases. 326 00:17:26,330 --> 00:17:28,130 If you're trying to figure out how to get into the parking lot 327 00:17:28,130 --> 00:17:31,220 of, you know, a store or something like that's perfectly accurate. 328 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,680 But if you're trying to figure out where a gas line is, that's 329 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:35,120 not nearly accurate enough. 330 00:17:35,300 --> 00:17:39,290 That's, you know, my, my spiel in classes and I realized the other day, I was 331 00:17:39,290 --> 00:17:44,150 like, I'm throwing my arms out and I've been doing the exact same demo for 10 332 00:17:44,150 --> 00:17:46,280 years and I realized, you know what? 333 00:17:46,795 --> 00:17:47,505 Is that accurate? 334 00:17:47,505 --> 00:17:49,395 And I went and looked it up and I was like, oh, well actually that's 335 00:17:49,815 --> 00:17:54,195 still about as accurate as iPhone ish get, I dunno about Android. 336 00:17:54,915 --> 00:18:00,225 And I realized it's kind of odd that's just not a thing that we even think about. 337 00:18:00,225 --> 00:18:04,165 The tech we I have to imagine that our GPS chips that are more accurate, 338 00:18:04,465 --> 00:18:05,995 that would fit inside of an iPhone. 339 00:18:07,165 --> 00:18:08,575 And Apple just went, eh. 340 00:18:09,595 --> 00:18:10,045 It's fine. 341 00:18:10,585 --> 00:18:11,005 So, okay. 342 00:18:11,005 --> 00:18:12,145 We'd rather focus on something else. 343 00:18:12,195 --> 00:18:15,825 Let's talk about the technologies then for just a second, to just give a base 344 00:18:15,825 --> 00:18:17,625 layer of what we're talking about. 345 00:18:17,625 --> 00:18:22,575 We're talking about GNSS today, our mobile devices, this is Android, iPhone. 346 00:18:22,575 --> 00:18:28,035 Whatever you're using generally comes with a multi spectrum chip, so it'll grab 347 00:18:28,035 --> 00:18:31,375 your data for your GPS or g nm SS sorry. 348 00:18:32,770 --> 00:18:37,760 GPS Glow, NAS, Beal Galileo, I think all of those. 349 00:18:38,130 --> 00:18:40,590 And then regional ones as well. 350 00:18:40,620 --> 00:18:43,970 You can look at your phone to see which regions it does so you 351 00:18:43,970 --> 00:18:46,070 can get accuracy on that level. 352 00:18:46,340 --> 00:18:50,320 The issue, of course is that whenever you're even in the middle of a field. 353 00:18:51,130 --> 00:18:55,160 No cell phone connection in terms of your 5G or 4G, whatever. 354 00:18:55,910 --> 00:19:02,120 You're still dealing with the inaccuracies caused by the atmosphere, and so that's 355 00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:04,760 where we get 20 meters or so off. 356 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:05,090 Right. 357 00:19:06,380 --> 00:19:09,750 Then we have wide area augmentation systems that have 358 00:19:09,750 --> 00:19:12,240 been set up that were made for. 359 00:19:12,870 --> 00:19:17,110 Flights they're made to basically make sure that planes 360 00:19:17,110 --> 00:19:19,030 have a close enough signal. 361 00:19:19,300 --> 00:19:25,490 So it's basically a terrestrial base giving a correction signal. 362 00:19:25,490 --> 00:19:31,040 So a differential GPS signal essentially to all these devices and it's wide area. 363 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:32,330 It's broadcasting all the time. 364 00:19:32,330 --> 00:19:34,700 And so your device then can take advantage of that. 365 00:19:35,045 --> 00:19:37,355 And that gets you down to the arm's length. 366 00:19:37,595 --> 00:19:40,835 So two meters to four meters ish type of situation. 367 00:19:40,835 --> 00:19:45,395 So we have our GNSS, we have our wide area augmentation system, 368 00:19:45,395 --> 00:19:49,115 which is a differential GPS or differential GNSS system. 369 00:19:49,625 --> 00:19:53,105 And then of course we have our professional differential GNS systems 370 00:19:53,105 --> 00:19:56,990 that we can pay money to get access to every state, most countries. 371 00:19:57,770 --> 00:20:03,320 Have access to a signal where they're feeding differential from base stations. 372 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:08,420 They have set up and regions in their state so you can get better accuracy. 373 00:20:08,420 --> 00:20:13,390 That takes us down from two to four meters down to what sub foot 374 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,700 usually, depending on where you are. 375 00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:20,350 But most people aren't gonna be using that because it's not commercial off the shelf. 376 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,250 And so it's really that two to four meters where we get to. 377 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:31,420 Yeah, why isn't Apple or someone else working with the 378 00:20:31,420 --> 00:20:32,890 states to get access to that? 379 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:37,270 'cause they could, I mean, for very little money, they could probably 380 00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:41,230 talk the states into giving them access to that better resolution, 381 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,890 differential data and get as much closer. 382 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:50,110 But at the same time, do they need to, because with our GPS 383 00:20:50,110 --> 00:20:51,280 and our phones we're also. 384 00:20:51,775 --> 00:20:57,345 Working with the cell phone triangulation besides our trilateration for GNSS 385 00:20:57,985 --> 00:21:01,855 so that we get both of those and that gives us a lot more accuracy 386 00:21:01,855 --> 00:21:03,565 than we get with GPS by itself. 387 00:21:03,565 --> 00:21:09,475 So it gets us those last, you know, meter or meter and a half accuracy and helps 388 00:21:09,475 --> 00:21:14,065 us whenever we're inside buildings where even the differential GPS systems can't 389 00:21:14,065 --> 00:21:15,865 help us whenever we're inside buildings. 390 00:21:16,580 --> 00:21:16,870 Okay. 391 00:21:17,650 --> 00:21:18,640 That's the technical background. 392 00:21:18,910 --> 00:21:19,330 Keep going. 393 00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:20,950 Right. 394 00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:23,590 So the thing that's kind of interesting to me is that we've 395 00:21:23,590 --> 00:21:29,030 kind of decided culturally, I guess, that level of accuracy is perfectly 396 00:21:29,030 --> 00:21:30,710 fine for almost all situations. 397 00:21:30,710 --> 00:21:32,240 So don't worry about it. 398 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,400 That's all we really need to have. 399 00:21:34,790 --> 00:21:39,590 So, I don't know this, I've never done the research to figure out what 400 00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:45,230 the actual data shows, but I would bet at least 70%, maybe more of. 401 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:53,240 The location based services within a phone are used for either navigation or 402 00:21:53,720 --> 00:22:02,390 to geotag a photo or video, and I would say maybe even higher, maybe 80% or 90%. 403 00:22:02,390 --> 00:22:06,260 I mean, that's the overwhelming use cases, I think, for location based services for 404 00:22:06,260 --> 00:22:10,070 most people, most of the time, in which case, you know, throw your arms out in 405 00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:13,580 either direction, and that's accurate enough for almost all those scenarios. 406 00:22:14,435 --> 00:22:17,765 So you kinda get why they have it, but it is kind of odd that since 407 00:22:18,605 --> 00:22:22,685 you know, what precipitated this conversation a bit was, hey, this was 408 00:22:22,685 --> 00:22:24,335 something that was we're, it's coming. 409 00:22:24,335 --> 00:22:24,755 It's coming. 410 00:22:24,755 --> 00:22:26,615 It's important for so many years. 411 00:22:26,615 --> 00:22:30,905 And then we kind of peaked real quick and then it's like, okay, this is good. 412 00:22:32,075 --> 00:22:36,605 And now it's about data, not about the technical signal piece. 413 00:22:38,615 --> 00:22:40,085 Well, I mean, you have the location, right? 414 00:22:40,175 --> 00:22:40,925 The location. 415 00:22:42,365 --> 00:22:46,355 Accuracy isn't getting better, but the services that are taking 416 00:22:46,415 --> 00:22:50,825 advantage of it are getting better, I think would be my counterpoint. 417 00:22:50,825 --> 00:22:57,075 And so that's not really an os slash hardware based issue that's 418 00:22:57,495 --> 00:23:01,575 whoever's utilizing and sharing the data or collecting the data. 419 00:23:02,355 --> 00:23:04,305 And again, it's become so transparent. 420 00:23:04,305 --> 00:23:07,515 We don't necessarily think about the fact that a lot of the apps that we download 421 00:23:07,515 --> 00:23:09,945 every day are location-based service. 422 00:23:11,445 --> 00:23:12,765 Oriented apps. 423 00:23:13,545 --> 00:23:13,725 Yeah. 424 00:23:13,725 --> 00:23:16,425 I think that all the developments on the data side, like I said. 425 00:23:16,875 --> 00:23:17,085 Yeah. 426 00:23:17,085 --> 00:23:18,435 And that, and I think that's it, right? 427 00:23:18,435 --> 00:23:20,875 Because short of the use cases you gave, right? 428 00:23:20,875 --> 00:23:23,905 If I'm navigating down a trail and it's really important that I have 429 00:23:24,175 --> 00:23:29,285 super accuracy if I'm navigating to taco Bell or whatever, right? 430 00:23:29,375 --> 00:23:32,645 It's a fixed location and if I get close enough, I'm gonna see it. 431 00:23:33,135 --> 00:23:34,695 And so I think that's it, right? 432 00:23:36,585 --> 00:23:40,125 We're now so used to everything wanting to give us that information, 433 00:23:40,125 --> 00:23:41,205 by the way, to improve it. 434 00:23:41,565 --> 00:23:47,985 That those of us who use the phones don't necessarily even notice any 435 00:23:47,985 --> 00:23:51,345 kind of, you know, variance and the accuracy when it's enough to do the 436 00:23:51,345 --> 00:23:53,715 things that are largely the services. 437 00:23:53,805 --> 00:23:57,765 So now geofencing and in behind the scenes and stuff like that is a different story. 438 00:23:57,765 --> 00:24:02,505 But I think that's one that still, I don't think took off at least. 439 00:24:02,575 --> 00:24:03,145 And I'm not. 440 00:24:03,775 --> 00:24:07,465 In this area much, but it doesn't seem like that took off quite as much. 441 00:24:07,955 --> 00:24:11,045 So the sort of scenario where you're on foot and yeah, you 442 00:24:11,045 --> 00:24:14,615 cross into a geo-fencing zone and you know, get some information. 443 00:24:14,985 --> 00:24:18,315 So you know that collision might matter a little bit more in terms of where 444 00:24:18,315 --> 00:24:20,685 it's occurring in the hidden boundary. 445 00:24:20,715 --> 00:24:20,955 But, 446 00:24:22,095 --> 00:24:26,295 so I pulled my phone outta my pocket and I would say that on any page that I'm 447 00:24:26,295 --> 00:24:28,530 flipping through on my phone of apps. 448 00:24:29,325 --> 00:24:37,035 Only about 20% of them and maybe less don't use or can't use my location. 449 00:24:37,245 --> 00:24:38,415 Some of them don't need it. 450 00:24:39,615 --> 00:24:41,295 I was gonna say, you sure they're not getting it anyway? 451 00:24:41,355 --> 00:24:44,085 But they, most of them still can use it. 452 00:24:44,085 --> 00:24:46,515 So for instance, whenever I first pulled it up, I had my smart 453 00:24:46,515 --> 00:24:49,385 home stuff up and none of those. 454 00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:53,570 Explicitly need my location, but they'll use my location to 455 00:24:53,570 --> 00:24:54,890 say whether I'm home or not. 456 00:24:54,890 --> 00:24:57,940 And that'll have an impact on whether certain things turn off or an on or not. 457 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:03,470 Knowing where my house is so that it knows when sunset is those type of things. 458 00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:06,740 Things you don't really think about in terms of location based services. 459 00:25:07,085 --> 00:25:09,695 That still are using your location. 460 00:25:10,445 --> 00:25:13,985 So yeah, I think it's the data, whether it's data that we're providing 461 00:25:13,985 --> 00:25:17,955 or data that we're utilizing like Frank's saying is, you know, where 462 00:25:17,955 --> 00:25:19,110 we are now with those services. 463 00:25:21,735 --> 00:25:25,695 You remember when we would go to the uc and we'd interview all those companies and 464 00:25:25,695 --> 00:25:27,765 they would talk about how they're getting that better and making that better. 465 00:25:27,765 --> 00:25:31,845 And, you know, integrating with this and uploading to that and this company's 466 00:25:31,845 --> 00:25:35,355 buying that company and all that sort of stuff like that about the data space. 467 00:25:35,475 --> 00:25:42,735 And I feel like even for in the note in the know people like, like we are supposed 468 00:25:42,735 --> 00:25:44,835 to be, that has gotten real quiet. 469 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,780 It's just silently kind of happening on the backend. 470 00:25:48,780 --> 00:25:53,340 It feels a little bit like, maybe this is a bad analogy 'cause you can 471 00:25:53,340 --> 00:25:56,010 see that pretty easily, but it feels a little bit like, I don't know, 472 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,210 roadworks or something that just kind of happens in the background a bit. 473 00:26:00,300 --> 00:26:05,250 You know, automatically less than a, oh, this is a celebrated thing. 474 00:26:05,310 --> 00:26:07,050 So we're constantly making it better and better. 475 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:12,780 I mean, apple Maps, they had a big announcement a year or two ago with. 476 00:26:13,485 --> 00:26:15,075 A big thing they were doing right. 477 00:26:15,595 --> 00:26:18,005 But I'm, they've been kind of quiet lately on what they're doing. 478 00:26:18,005 --> 00:26:21,965 They're just making it better and better, and they were probably the most famous 479 00:26:21,965 --> 00:26:24,935 of the big players to have data issues. 480 00:26:24,935 --> 00:26:27,425 Starting off that obviously that's been fixed, but. 481 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,490 You know, I think they're being very vocal because they had to 482 00:26:31,490 --> 00:26:34,580 be vocal because they had so many issues starting outta the gate. 483 00:26:34,910 --> 00:26:36,860 But even now it's kind of quiet. 484 00:26:36,890 --> 00:26:37,760 It happens. 485 00:26:37,820 --> 00:26:40,760 But you know, I bet if you look at the iOS notes for anything but like 486 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,270 a bug fix, something's going on with Apple Maps, but it's just like, oh 487 00:26:44,270 --> 00:26:46,070 yeah, apple maps that thing better. 488 00:26:47,330 --> 00:26:49,010 I think this comes around to. 489 00:26:49,715 --> 00:26:52,055 A few different things, but one of them I'll point out that Bill 490 00:26:52,055 --> 00:26:56,275 Dos recently wrote over on his Geo Musings blog post GIS Revisited. 491 00:26:56,575 --> 00:26:59,965 And maybe that's just a topic that we need to just kind of deep dive 492 00:26:59,965 --> 00:27:02,035 into what he talks about in that. 493 00:27:02,555 --> 00:27:06,665 But it is a. Again, this, he talked about the first time he talked about 494 00:27:06,665 --> 00:27:09,365 post GIS now is even more true now. 495 00:27:09,705 --> 00:27:16,455 Kind of the de monolithic of GISI mean, we still have the monoliths, 496 00:27:16,455 --> 00:27:18,585 the RGIS, QGIS, those type of things. 497 00:27:18,985 --> 00:27:25,975 But there's a lot more of the use code tools to do a very specific thing. 498 00:27:26,605 --> 00:27:29,375 We're seeing a lot more of that at this point. 499 00:27:30,785 --> 00:27:32,735 Maybe we did maybe 20 years ago. 500 00:27:32,735 --> 00:27:36,095 Whenever we were first starting, there was still some of it going on, but now 501 00:27:36,095 --> 00:27:40,805 there's just more use cases for doing that than maybe there was whenever it 502 00:27:40,805 --> 00:27:48,095 was mostly laptop, desktop, and so maybe that is why we're not hearing about it 503 00:27:48,485 --> 00:27:55,055 as much is because it's so decentralized that we don't hear about what each. 504 00:27:55,145 --> 00:28:00,105 A company is doing to have these impacts on location-based services. 505 00:28:00,105 --> 00:28:03,195 And again, sometimes it just comes down to a line of code that somebody 506 00:28:03,195 --> 00:28:06,985 shared on GitHub that suddenly everybody's using whenever they're 507 00:28:06,985 --> 00:28:08,445 building their, they're new tools. 508 00:28:09,315 --> 00:28:13,185 And Jesse, to that point, I think sometimes with that decentralization 509 00:28:13,585 --> 00:28:18,985 it's not just that it can't make a broader splash because of, you know, 510 00:28:18,985 --> 00:28:24,335 it's no longer in that, that those big situations, but also that the people 511 00:28:24,335 --> 00:28:28,140 doing it themselves might not realize how significant what they're doing is. 512 00:28:29,145 --> 00:28:31,485 You know, it's not just they don't have a voice to say it to. 513 00:28:31,485 --> 00:28:36,205 It's they themselves might not realize what a big deal they've made in the world. 514 00:28:36,205 --> 00:28:40,955 Going back to the early days of Gladys West and Geodyssey. 515 00:28:40,985 --> 00:28:41,015 Okay, 516 00:28:42,095 --> 00:28:44,735 so broad ideas. 517 00:28:45,995 --> 00:28:49,445 I didn't really talk in advance to, to coordinate, but I think that gives you 518 00:28:49,445 --> 00:28:54,325 some ideas of where we are in terms of our thoughts on GNSS, location-based 519 00:28:54,325 --> 00:28:58,455 services, those type of things between the news items and this, and it's, 520 00:28:58,695 --> 00:29:00,405 you know, continuing to change. 521 00:29:00,585 --> 00:29:03,975 And, you know, going back to our, another, our other news item 522 00:29:04,005 --> 00:29:05,445 of the question of resilience. 523 00:29:05,805 --> 00:29:09,195 It's not just about the location resilience, it's the PNT resilience 524 00:29:09,355 --> 00:29:11,725 that we are looking for as well. 525 00:29:11,725 --> 00:29:14,575 And it's not just the US with GPS that's doing this. 526 00:29:14,575 --> 00:29:19,440 So we do have other countries who are working on these issues 527 00:29:20,015 --> 00:29:24,035 and implementing strategies to make these things more resilient. 528 00:29:24,035 --> 00:29:27,665 So since our phones, since many of our devices can. 529 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,190 Access multiple GNS systems. 530 00:29:32,630 --> 00:29:36,675 It just it will make our own use cases more resilient as well. 531 00:29:36,675 --> 00:29:37,035 So, 532 00:29:38,955 --> 00:29:42,305 and I think the fact that we don't hear stuff is, you know, we said it 533 00:29:42,305 --> 00:29:43,775 kept saying, well, it's gonna arrive. 534 00:29:43,775 --> 00:29:48,005 It kind of aro, it kind of arrived like, you know, the water sort of 535 00:29:48,035 --> 00:29:54,395 oozed in and LBS and all of these things are now just just so embedded. 536 00:29:55,325 --> 00:29:58,655 Our mobile world that it just didn't arrive with a bang. 537 00:29:59,645 --> 00:30:00,515 And for me, right? 538 00:30:00,515 --> 00:30:04,685 This the short amount of time, I still have a slide in my discussion 539 00:30:04,685 --> 00:30:10,885 of this for my introductory students that shows a graphic of the LBS sort 540 00:30:10,885 --> 00:30:17,375 of chain and the device in there is Blackberry in the picture, and 541 00:30:17,375 --> 00:30:19,475 there's also a Microsoft Zoom, right? 542 00:30:19,475 --> 00:30:21,770 And so it goes back to an era when people were trying to. 543 00:30:22,415 --> 00:30:23,705 Figure these things out. 544 00:30:23,705 --> 00:30:26,895 And everybody wanted to be the first one to say can you connect these things? 545 00:30:26,895 --> 00:30:29,535 And I have to tell, just, I have to tell them what a card catalog is. 546 00:30:29,985 --> 00:30:33,645 I have to tell them what these devices were and that for a brief moment in time. 547 00:30:34,245 --> 00:30:34,515 Right? 548 00:30:34,515 --> 00:30:38,535 These were the things that people were trying to do with these you know, services 549 00:30:38,535 --> 00:30:43,305 and collections and the devices that they tried to make to leverage them. 550 00:30:44,915 --> 00:30:45,135 And 551 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,810 leave it to a person with a BA in Master's in history to feel like they need to 552 00:30:48,810 --> 00:30:52,260 explain why Blackberry was I to GNSS? 553 00:30:52,530 --> 00:30:52,840 I think so. 554 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,470 I think that always should bere appreciate where it came from. 555 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,720 Do you think they actually do in your two minutes of talking about it? 556 00:30:57,780 --> 00:30:58,320 I think it's funny. 557 00:30:58,620 --> 00:31:01,380 They actually thanks to, and thanks to Guardians of the Galaxy, 558 00:31:01,380 --> 00:31:02,490 some of them know what a zoo is. 559 00:31:02,490 --> 00:31:05,370 And so, so there you go. 560 00:31:06,660 --> 00:31:09,810 Well, you know, I, that, that is harken back to a professor. 561 00:31:09,810 --> 00:31:14,460 We all know Dr. He's a retired times ERUs, but Dr. Greg Elms and his intro 562 00:31:14,460 --> 00:31:16,230 to GIS class used to spend time talking. 563 00:31:16,460 --> 00:31:20,450 What is binary, how it works and all that sort of stuff, because he felt, 564 00:31:20,510 --> 00:31:23,900 I think, correctly that most students didn't really have the background of how 565 00:31:23,900 --> 00:31:25,610 a computer actually does computer stuff. 566 00:31:26,090 --> 00:31:28,990 And every time that we go over, you'd hear students complaining, 567 00:31:28,990 --> 00:31:30,250 why do I even need to know this? 568 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:31,985 This is not relevant to anything. 569 00:31:32,165 --> 00:31:32,675 So, you know. 570 00:31:33,755 --> 00:31:35,285 Except for the way that the computer works. 571 00:31:35,345 --> 00:31:36,335 Yeah, well, you know, 572 00:31:37,055 --> 00:31:39,065 and I feel like this is an opportunity. 573 00:31:39,105 --> 00:31:44,245 You, it goes on YouTube, the Geodyssey community is putting out calls for people 574 00:31:44,245 --> 00:31:49,345 to get into the field, you know, and everything we've been talking about shows 575 00:31:49,345 --> 00:31:53,235 that, you know, even though it's been happening quietly, there still is a need 576 00:31:53,565 --> 00:31:56,985 for this type of deep research going on. 577 00:31:57,075 --> 00:31:58,575 So, you know, to say. 578 00:31:59,340 --> 00:32:02,340 You know, if you're interested in any of these topics, to think 579 00:32:02,340 --> 00:32:03,890 about it as a field of study. 580 00:32:04,370 --> 00:32:08,000 Well, and not even necessarily research if you, if it's something you're 581 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,550 interested in serving is still needed. 582 00:32:11,550 --> 00:32:13,350 And it's, I think people see. 583 00:32:14,460 --> 00:32:18,520 It less because there's so many technologies in their life that, 584 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,770 that are doing some of those things. 585 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:25,000 But as someone who worked in North Carolina until just a couple of 586 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,240 years ago you know, it's a very clear distinction in some states about what 587 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,960 people who are doing JS can do and what people with surveying license can do. 588 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,715 And to be fair, legally that's true everywhere. 589 00:32:36,375 --> 00:32:41,265 But even some of the traditional GIS type of things are limited for 590 00:32:41,265 --> 00:32:47,235 GIS people to do because they're seen by certain legislation to be 591 00:32:47,235 --> 00:32:49,455 things that are surveyor projects. 592 00:32:49,665 --> 00:32:49,935 So 593 00:32:51,405 --> 00:32:52,605 that's a whole nother podcast. 594 00:32:52,755 --> 00:32:52,995 Yes. 595 00:32:54,045 --> 00:32:56,155 Well, it's just if you can g geodyssey, you can do both. 596 00:32:56,155 --> 00:32:59,525 So, places like North Carolina a and t why am I not gonna remember 597 00:32:59,525 --> 00:33:00,515 anywhere else in the country? 598 00:33:01,010 --> 00:33:04,270 Oh, well, you can go to and get into those type 599 00:33:04,275 --> 00:33:05,140 of Washington state, I think. 600 00:33:05,350 --> 00:33:05,410 Yeah. 601 00:33:05,410 --> 00:33:08,860 Oregon one of those two had the model law that went into effect. 602 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:10,720 It's like 10 years ago now. 603 00:33:10,930 --> 00:33:11,290 Yeah. 604 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,010 But I was trying to think of universities that have ssy slash 605 00:33:15,130 --> 00:33:15,970 whatever you wanna call 'em. 606 00:33:16,150 --> 00:33:17,350 Geo, what is it? 607 00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:17,980 What is it? 608 00:33:18,250 --> 00:33:18,765 Are you thinking of 609 00:33:19,540 --> 00:33:19,570 geomatics? 610 00:33:19,570 --> 00:33:24,160 Thank you Geomatics programs or go to your local community college 611 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:25,980 and get your surveying classes. 612 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,300 Do an internship and that's and get into your PLS if you need it. 613 00:33:30,255 --> 00:33:33,405 I tell you what, we got exposed to some really interesting data that we're 614 00:33:33,405 --> 00:33:35,085 trying to purchase at my institution. 615 00:33:35,445 --> 00:33:40,935 And it's about programs meaning academic programs and their demand. 616 00:33:41,115 --> 00:33:45,075 And I was very shocked to find that they had basically run as a preliminary report. 617 00:33:45,075 --> 00:33:48,795 They had run all of our programs through, and they showed basically the 618 00:33:48,795 --> 00:33:50,235 demand compared to the competitors. 619 00:33:50,540 --> 00:33:52,070 Competitiveness. 620 00:33:52,100 --> 00:33:53,810 In other words, how many programs are doing that? 621 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,390 And I was shocked at the demand for surveying. 622 00:33:56,420 --> 00:33:59,120 It was like 98% out of a score of a hundred. 623 00:33:59,150 --> 00:34:01,340 It was like, we need this. 624 00:34:01,340 --> 00:34:02,180 This is important. 625 00:34:02,210 --> 00:34:02,390 Yeah. 626 00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:04,460 So more places need to be doing it. 627 00:34:05,780 --> 00:34:05,990 Yeah. 628 00:34:07,940 --> 00:34:10,850 And I say I was shocked that somebody who thought we need this is important. 629 00:34:10,940 --> 00:34:12,980 But I even, I was shocked at how high that number was. 630 00:34:13,790 --> 00:34:14,900 And that's it for the topic. 631 00:34:29,100 --> 00:34:30,480 Okay, onto the events corner. 632 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:35,250 As always, check out these events, most of which are in other current countries. 633 00:34:35,250 --> 00:34:36,000 This time around 634 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,810 the 2026 International Conference on Geography and 635 00:34:39,810 --> 00:34:42,600 Travel, ICGT is taking place. 636 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,870 April 1st in Pune, India. 637 00:34:46,290 --> 00:34:50,220 The Geographical association conference will be April 8th through 638 00:34:50,220 --> 00:34:51,990 the 10th in Sheffield in the uk. 639 00:34:52,470 --> 00:34:55,800 The European Geosciences Union General Assembly will be November 3rd through 640 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,710 the eighth in Vienna, Austria, and online 641 00:34:59,220 --> 00:35:04,290 Nordic Geographers meeting is taking place June 22nd through the 25th in Rey Iceland. 642 00:35:04,590 --> 00:35:06,870 Of course, if you'd like us to add your event to the podcast. 643 00:35:08,220 --> 00:35:10,410 Send us an email to podcast@veryspatial.com. 644 00:35:10,980 --> 00:35:14,520 If you'd like to reach us individually, I can be reached at sue@veryspatial.com. 645 00:35:14,970 --> 00:35:17,065 I can be reached at barb@veryspatial.com. 646 00:35:17,610 --> 00:35:19,590 You can reach me atFrank@veryspatial.com, 647 00:35:19,770 --> 00:35:21,030 and I'm available at kind of spatial. 648 00:35:21,030 --> 00:35:22,920 You can find all of our contact information over at 649 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:24,750 very spatial.com/contacts. 650 00:35:25,230 --> 00:35:25,830 As always, 651 00:35:26,220 --> 00:35:27,540 we're the folks from very spatial. 652 00:35:27,750 --> 00:35:28,380 Thanks for listening, 653 00:35:28,710 --> 00:35:29,850 and we'll see you in a couple weeks. 654 00:36:25,385 --> 00:36:25,955 Yeah. 655 00:36:52,545 --> 00:36:53,835 Then I. 656 00:37:29,615 --> 00:37:30,485 Oh God. 657 00:37:30,485 --> 00:37:35,315 I used to know how to say anything to anyone. 658 00:37:35,315 --> 00:37:36,540 I know 659 00:37:40,745 --> 00:37:43,940 she's freefall and now I'm going back. 660 00:37:49,670 --> 00:37:50,190 I know 661 00:37:52,830 --> 00:37:52,950 I 662 00:37:55,250 --> 00:37:55,470 the. 663 00:38:00,460 --> 00:38:03,720 Oh, would you tell. 664 00:38:43,935 --> 00:38:44,155 Oh, 665 00:38:50,035 --> 00:38:50,155 I.