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Josh Dech - CHN (07:27.989)
Siggy Klavian, welcome to Reversible.

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Siggi Clavien (07:31.602)
Very pleasure to be here. I love the name, by the way, Reversible. It's actually, just a quick note, it's very apropos because fatty liver disease is reversible, type 2 diabetes is reversible, and metabolic syndrome is reversible, but they're all root causes from the liver. So the name, yeah, it is apropos.

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Josh Dech - CHN (07:34.527)
I... Thank you.

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Josh Dech - CHN (07:52.842)
It looks great on paper, reverse able to try to communicate it when I'm on another podcast. come to reverse able. It's a kind of a nightmare to have to say, but it looks great on paper. So I appreciate that. Now, Siggy, you are a liver specialist. That's your thing. That's what you do. First of all, where the hell is my liver? And second, why do I even care?

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Siggi Clavien (08:13.256)
Right. Okay, so most people don't know where the liver is, so that's kind of common. Great way to describe it is it starts in the center of your chest and it goes to your right side and ends at the side of your body. The bottom of the liver is about where the bottom of the rib cage is and that's an adaptation that we've had through evolution to protect the liver because it's such a vital organ. So the bottom of the liver is the bottom of the rib, the top is about where the nipple is.

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starts at the center chest bone, then goes over to the side. So it's tucked up in there between, kind of tucked up with the lungs and the heart back in there as well. It's the largest internal organ. Largest organ in the human body is the skin, and the largest internal organ is the liver. There's obviously a huge correlation between how they function together and with each other. A funny way that I use to explain it, as I say, it's about the size of a small chihuahua.

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People liking it. Yeah.

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Josh Dech - CHN (09:11.533)
That's great way to explain it. Yes. All right. So you have a little chihuahua living on our right side kind of tucked under the lung starting from the nipple to the bottom of the rib cage. And we hear about the liver like well we've heard fatty liver. Maybe we know alcohol is bad for your liver. But when it comes down to the liver why do I care like why do I even need it. Doesn't it grow back like a salamander tail if I cut half of it off.

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Siggi Clavien (09:35.762)
Yeah, so let me, I'll get to the regeneration ability of it at the end, but I'll start with it is a, it's a master organ. It is responsible for 500 vital functions. The actual functionality of the liver goes into the thousands, but 500 of which are vital. In traditional Chinese medicine or Eastern medicine, it is known as the general of the body because it controls so many other organs. The liver is so complex.

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that it cannot be replicated with modern technology. Whereas we have artificial hearts, have artificial kidneys, artificial lungs, the liver cannot be replicated with technology. And that's because of its regenerative abilities. The liver is the most important organ in the body for your immune system. So it's the master of your immune system, right? White blood cell, red blood cell, lymphatic system carries it through, but the liver's the most important.

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It is also the most important organ for skin health. You want to have beautiful skin, you want to have beautiful hair, take care of your liver. For longevity, it's the most important organ in the body as well. I do a lot of chats or longevity conferences and we bring up how important the liver is to do with gut health. It is responsible for producing all the bile and the fatty acid breakdown that happens in the gut, all comes from the liver as well.

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So the liver is controlling all these things and vitamins, minerals, you've got a great diet or a not so good diet. All the vitamins, minerals and proteins that we have just through eating is stored in the liver, managed by the liver and released by the liver. That's where all the, so every supplement you take and no matter what you eat, yes, the small intestine absorbs it and it goes into the bloodstream.

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And it, know, the stomach breaks it down into where it can be digested and the intestines can do its thing of pulling those out. But all of those vitamins go via the bloodstream into the liver and they're in this control center, which is the liver. So the liver reduces those, makes them more efficient and then releases those as necessary. It also has a thing called glycans, which it stores for energy. So if you got up right now and you ran to the door to get something or you wanted to go exercise.

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Siggi Clavien (12:01.95)
or even start thinking, the energy that you're burning to be able to do that is controlled in the liver as well from the glycan. So the liver is this mastermind that controls so many things in the human body. Most people don't know that. They just think, it's for detoxing. Of course, it's the most important part of detoxing, but detoxification is, you know, there's many aspects to it. key to good health is looking at the body holistically and the liver does so many things throughout the body to do that.

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So the liver is this massed organ and to bring up your your salamander tail, which is really interesting So in the human body, there's there's three organs that regenerate the skin the stomach lining or the intestinal lining and the liver The only organ in the body that fully regenerates is the liver The only organ does that if you need to deliver transplant, for example And we didn't we weren't going to do a full transplant. We would do what's called a live liver transplant Which is where we would take and we would do it match

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We would take a third of my liver, we would cut that little third off, we would put that into you, and that will grow back to a fully double-lobed organ, and mine will grow back. Mine sometimes could grow back as short as a month. No organ can do that. Correct. So you went from a month to three months, and that third would probably be within six months. That little third, which looks like the tail of a liver, would go boom, you've got a full double-lobed organ. I'll give you an example of how powerful the regenerator is.

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Josh Dech - CHN (13:14.633)
a month. Wow.

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Siggi Clavien (13:29.864)
abilities of the liver are is the average age of your liver, regardless if you're a five-year-old child or an 85-year-old senior, is three years old. So the livers are generated so much that no matter where you are in your lifespan, your average age is three of your liver. The oldest age of most liver cells will not exceed 10 years old.

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Josh Dech - CHN (13:42.669)
Yeah.

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Siggi Clavien (13:54.63)
So you're have some liver cells that are minutes old and your oldest ones will be 10 years old. So your liver's constantly, constantly regenerating. Once again, no organ does that. Organs repair, but they don't fully regenerate. And it's constantly doing that. So if we could harness the power of a salamander's tail regrowing or the power of a liver's ability to regenerate through other organs in the body, I mean, you wanna talk about a fountain of youth, if you could.

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which is being worked on to encapsulate that regenerative ability and regeneration.

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Josh Dech - CHN (14:28.257)
That's crazy. So I mean, you could then argue that your liver is probably the most important organ in the body next to the heart and the brain. I mean, it's doing everything. It's running everything. It's keeping you in check. It's keeping things balanced. It's the general. It's regulating your immune system. It's moving toxins. It's helping digestion. It's doing all these functions at the same time. And so I guess, it be fair that my question is that it's the most important organ in the body next to the heart and the brain?

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Josh Dech - CHN (15:08.375)
Talia, Siggy's frozen on his end. that my end or is that?

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Talia (Stanton & Company) (15:12.77)
No, that was for me as well. It looks like he just dropped. Maybe he lost connection.

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Josh Dech - CHN (15:14.993)
Okay. Gotcha. We'll see. Wait for him to pop back in. Whereabouts is he calling from?

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Talia (Stanton & Company) (15:20.674)
Yeah, I'll text him in a minute. What's that? Arizona.

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Josh Dech - CHN (15:24.651)
Where is he calling from? Okay, he's not like in the mountains somewhere of like Sweden. Just just just the desert somewhere isolated in the middle of nowhere.

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Talia (Stanton & Company) (15:29.882)
Just the desert. Exactly.

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Talia (Stanton & Company) (15:56.28)
I just texted to see if he's having trouble rejoining.

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Talia (Stanton & Company) (17:02.5)
He's resetting

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Josh Dech - CHN (17:04.646)
boy, no problem.

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Josh Dech - CHN (17:21.077)
If he's running into some major issues here for whatever reason, and it's not working and we're gonna be super behind, don't have time to get like a really full episode, we can reschedule in May. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no problem. I'm away in April a lot. I'm gonna be in the UK, so timing is a bit weird, but not a big deal, yeah.

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Talia (Stanton & Company) (17:31.894)
Okay, yeah, I'll let him know we don't hear from them in a minute.

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Talia (Stanton & Company) (17:45.818)
Cool. Are you heading for a conference or for fun? Hopefully for, hopefully the latter, but I imagine both. No, wrong answer.

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Josh Dech - CHN (17:48.758)
yeah, hopefully if a lot of, we never have fun. here he is. Yeah. We don't get to have fun. My wife runs a dance school. So yeah, she, my wife's got a dance school. So she's going up with some of the kids for, for the world's competition in Dublin. So we'll be out there hanging out. Yeah.

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Talia (Stanton & Company) (18:04.46)
wow! So cool.

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Josh Dech - CHN (18:09.067)
Siggy, you made it.

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Siggi Clavien (18:09.678)
Sorry about that, my... Yeah, unfortunately, it does that like once a week and it always at the most inopportune moment. Always. It was such a big question, I was waiting. Yeah, where was... Where do we leave off? I'll I'll pick right back up.

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Josh Dech - CHN (18:16.629)
Always. Yeah, you're right. All right.

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Talia (Stanton & Company) (18:17.755)
It was such a big question, I was waiting. Okay, I'm back on mute. Go ahead, y'all.

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Josh Dech - CHN (18:24.321)
Yeah, I know you're grand. I'm hearing myself feeding back this time and I wasn't last time. Did anything change on the audio there, Sigi?

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Siggi Clavien (18:33.252)
shouldn't know.

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Josh Dech - CHN (18:34.999)
Huh, interesting. I'm hearing myself feedback. When you jumped in, did you make sure to select no headphones? I'm just wondering if it is maybe cycling through the wrong way.

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Siggi Clavien (18:46.274)
I didn't, maybe I didn't do that, let look. Can I go?

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Josh Dech - CHN (18:48.289)
That's right. If you want to pop, yeah, you have to pop out of the studio and pop back in. We got a minute and just make sure you click. am not using headphones and it can treat it like a walkie talking and shut my voice off. So I'm not hearing it. Come back.

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Siggi Clavien (18:52.964)
Okay.

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Siggi Clavien (18:59.288)
Gotcha.

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Josh Dech - CHN (19:44.384)
Alright, audio test one two. It's still feeding back but that's alright. Weird. It's weird how it does it on one end but not the other. Let me see if I can fix this on my side. Do you have a pair of headphones you can maybe throw on, Sigi?

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Siggi Clavien (19:47.032)
All right.

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Siggi Clavien (19:52.524)
weird. It's weird how it doesn't...

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Josh Dech - CHN (20:09.261)
Just unfortunately what happens if we get to a talk, if there's any inner delay and I talk to you and then you talk to me, the whole thing will be scrambled. Cause your mic will pick up me and you at the same time.

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Siggi Clavien (20:18.602)
Okay.

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Siggi Clavien (20:23.138)
you

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Siggi Clavien (20:36.504)
Is that better?

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Josh Dech - CHN (20:37.709)
Test, test, check, Oh, a hundredfold. Can't hear me. Of course you can't. Oh yeah, okay. Perfect. It's always one thing or another. You're grand. We'll catch up where we were. So I was just talking about just sort of reiterating largest organ, all these vital functions, thousands of total functions that it does. It's the immune regulator, bubble, all these amazing things. Is it fair to say that your liver next to your brain and your heart is probably the most important organ in the entire body?

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Siggi Clavien (20:39.468)
Now can't hear you. Now I can hear you.

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Siggi Clavien (21:07.112)
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's I would say that the liver is more important than the heart. You can replace the heart. You can get an artificial heart. You can have a heart transplant much easier. And a heart is essentially just a giant pump. Whereas the liver is controlling all these other organs. I mean, it's also the brain liver axis is incredibly important.

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So the liver has way more functions than the heart. mean, you could be kept alive on a machine with no heart. can't be kept, there's no machine to keep you alive in the liver. So I would say, the brain and, yeah, the brain's more like kind of your hard drive and your processor, but the motherboard that everything is kind of, that's affecting everything would be the liver if we were to give it like a technical example.

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Josh Dech - CHN (21:46.381)
It's amazing.

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Josh Dech - CHN (22:02.391)
That's wild. I'm gonna throw you a left field question here. I've heard some really crazy stories. Liver transplants are extremely common or at least a common need, common like kidneys. What happens, and maybe this is in your field of expertise or strictly theoretical, we've heard stories where people will get organ transplants from a stranger who is maybe it's a mom who needs a liver, stay at home, quiet, librarian type.

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and the liver transplant she gets is from like an evil, Knievel motorcycle riding, cigarette smoking dude, and suddenly she starts developing a lot of these personality traits from the donor. Have you ever heard of this stuff before?

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Siggi Clavien (22:39.672)
I have not heard that, that would make a lot of sense. I'm I'm a believer in it. think Eastern medicine is to a degree that the liver the liver has inherent intelligence. It's also the master of your anger. So anger is the emotion that can affect liver health and in turn a bad liver can affect liver health as well.

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based off the complexity and how deals with the brain, I could see how that would definitely be possible. You know, it's kind of one of those things. You know what, this is very interesting time with technology where like esoteric and esotericism and spirituality are converging with science and science are now proving things that like yogis and spirituality has done for thousands of years. You're also having that with traditional Chinese medicine and herbal and Eastern medicine. I we use in high formulated deliverance was based

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a lot off of Eastern medicine and that's because you have 5,000 years of Kapi'a. And there's certain things that Eastern medicine just knows that the liver does that Western medicine didn't know because they couldn't prove it and now they're proving it and saying, okay, well maybe this ancient knowledge was correct or it is correct. So yeah, I can definitely see how that could be. That's interesting, I'll look into that. I know in Ayurvedic text in...

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Josh Dech - CHN (23:46.967)
Mm.

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Siggi Clavien (23:54.09)
really up until about the late 1500s that the center of love was actually considered to be in the liver, center of the chest, right? The liver is where, so Indians always believed that that's where love existed, the emotive, which makes sense because it's the same band as anger. But it was Shakespeare that really started writing about that the center of love was in your heart, in the center. So he's the one that kind of shifted that focus of where love was. Yeah. Yeah.

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Josh Dech - CHN (24:16.173)
Hmm.

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kind of away from science toward culture. Interesting. That's kind of wild. I've heard about these from heart transplants and all kinds of stuff, almost like a hard program, like a cellular memory where it contains, I mean, I've heard about these, and we're kind of off topic now, but since we're on it, give you a great example of a woman way back when I was a personal trainer in my early 20s. One of my mentors is actually working on a lat pulldown.

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Siggi Clavien (24:23.937)
Yeah.

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Josh Dech - CHN (24:43.917)
So doing these exercises. He's got a thumb inside of her lap. There's a knot in there. So he's doing this little fascial release work and she's doing these pull-downs. She's chatting and laughing along and this muscle little knot in there goes pop and the muscle knot opens up. She gets really quiet. She drops the weight and starts bawling. And there was memory stored inside of that muscle tissue that popped out of some early childhood abuse that just came flooding back and it was stored like the body keeps the score, right? Bessel van der Kock.

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And I was wondering if that's something that may be related here to the liver, liver transplants or something in your field of study.

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Siggi Clavien (25:19.724)
You know, I'm definitely a firm believer and I concretely believe that we, you you carry things in your DNA and your mapping from potentially past lives or potentially from coded from ancestors as well. However, you want to look at it, which exists. That's how you know, I the entire.

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species of dogs is based off of carrying genetic traits and coding from animal to another. That's why they pick up traits. That's why sometimes you'll have a dog, you know, might be descendant of another dog you had and they're very almost very similar in traits as well. So we do have deep coding within that as well. So I could see that once you put a liver in, which especially a liver transplant is so complex, that you now have all of that DNA coding from the previous person would be much...

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more noticeable or probably have a much greater chance of that coming in than if it was something that you inherited via DNA. So either way or very true. That's how that's your DNA is coding.

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Josh Dech - CHN (26:15.149)
Wild. Well, thank you for obliging my curiosity. I know it was a left field question you totally weren't prepared for. But let me ask you one that you'll be able to answer. Thank you very much. I think you'll be able to answer this one just on your education and training then. I have people come to me all the time. I'm like, your liver's a mess. Symptomatically, I can see it. I can see it in the stool. I can tell based on your gut. It's what we do here is gut disease and gut dysfunction. And they come back when my doctor said my liver is fine. They checked my liver and they said it's fine.

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Siggi Clavien (26:23.832)
That's a great question.

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Josh Dech - CHN (26:44.737)
What is your doctor doing to say your liver is fine and what are they overlooking that a specialist like yourself might look at and say, nah, dude, regardless of what your doctor's told you based on these very few blood markers, your liver is a mess. What are we missing and what are we doing differently here with you?

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Siggi Clavien (26:59.362)
So there's different ways to look at the liver. mean, traditional Chinese medicine could tell by looking at your tongue, your pulse.

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There's other inherent things you can do. You can look actually through the eye and can see certain things about liver disease actually come through the optic nerve when you look deep. But what is happening is you've got the main indicator that Western medicine is using to evaluate liver health is on a blood test and it's called a liver panel. And then everybody that's got a physical or blood test, they'll look at your liver. And they're looking at eight major biomarkers. Now those biomarkers.

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are at the end of the day, they're a lagging indicator, right? They're showing something that's already happened. if you ALT, AST, Gamma GTs, those are the ones that really, that are looked at. Obviously, we all look at Billy Rubin and all those, but the ALT and the Gammas and stuff are, what they're picking up is enzymes that are indicative of something else. So maybe inflammation or potentially infection or liver damage. So if those are okay,

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Doctors taking kind of the easy route and saying well your liver's fine You know we really notice this because we used to in our research and clinical studies. We were just monitoring bloods and Then we had a client that had been on deliverance for long time And he was going to this incredible Institute in Europe called Lanserhoff where you go for like a week and you drink these broths and it's it's very Old-school from traditional medicine and herbal medicine, but it's also the most high-tech clinic ever

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Josh Dech - CHN (28:11.693)
Mm-hmm.

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Siggi Clavien (28:30.584)
And he started getting fibro scans and they were measuring liver fat. And he said, you know, you can't tell anything with blood tests with liver, with for fatty liver. You have to do a scan. I was like, OK. So we started looking into this is about six years ago. And we noticed when we started scanning all of our patients and all the people doing trials and all of our customers were wait, wait a minute. 80 to 90 percent of people with fatty liver and fatty liver disease is not showing up on a blood test.

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which leads to the bigger problem which in the Western world, and not just the Western world, the highest rates are India, 38 to 40 to potentially 50 % of the population has fatty liver and fatty liver disease. And why 80 to 90 % of them don't know it is because they're getting a clean bill of health from their doctor that's essentially looking at an old technology which is just reading a blood panel.

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So we started doing scanning and fiber scanning is a technology. We do MRIs, do biopsies, etc. I like fiber scanning, which is called elastography. So you've got like a blood test, which is the most basic. Then you have ultrasound, right? Still older technology, but useful. Ultrasound will tell you if the liver is inflamed, it's out of shape, and it'll give you binary fatty or not fatty. Right. That's not enough data. So we don't really use ultrasound anymore. We use what's called a shear wave technology.

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or fibroscan and what I love about that is it it shoots a sound wave into the liver

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and it causes reverberations in the liver and then it uses ultrasound and we measure how soft or how stiff the liver is and with that we can tell you exactly how stiff it is, how soft. So we know the softer liver is, the healthier it is. The stiffer it is, it starts to stiffen up and that's also indicative of scarring. So we can see how much fibrosis or how much scarring you have in the liver. That's going to be a much greater indication of liver health than just enzymes from a blood panel. The other thing it does is it

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Siggi Clavien (30:32.134)
liver fat or steatosis and liver fat we can measure not only do you have fatty liver what percentage of fatty liver do you have and what percentage of the liver is showing fatty change and you can eat both of those so if you want to really get the full picture you do both of those combined

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I'm a big believer in a full body MRI once a year, at least every couple of years to look for tumors. you know, we practice root cause medicine, right? We're we are functional medicine. And what we do is is preventing it and looking ahead and using technology to do that. MRI will tell you if fatty or not fatty and it'll give you a range, but it's not as precise. So for screening, we don't use it. We use MRI and we suggest MRI for confirmation, but not for general screening. So that's the reason that most people don't think they have an issue, because

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Josh Dech - CHN (31:11.319)
Mm-hmm.

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Siggi Clavien (31:22.49)
they're looking at old tech which is you know a lagging indicator from a blood panel.

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Josh Dech - CHN (31:27.981)
Quick question for you then, Sigi. I mean, just as an offshoot here, I x-rays be all end all for a lot of things for a long time and then they realize, wait a minute, this is kind of a problem. There's a lot of radiation. shouldn't x-ray a pregnant woman, for example. These scans that we're doing, do you think that there's gonna be any potential in the future that you can over-scan yourself with some of these tests that it might be safer to do something different?

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Siggi Clavien (31:52.298)
x-rays for sure like dexascans in the UK you're not supposed to do more than one a year and the reason being is because of the radiation all it is minimal it's you know that does add up and it does a compounding effect cardiac CT scans I know I get one once a year just to check keep on top of it they would do radiation but a fiber scan is zero radiation

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It's thirty six hundred published papers. It's so safe that it's approved in the UK, US, EU, Japan, 160 countries in the world, even if you're pregnant. Because it's just sound, right? It's just a low frequency, low vibration of sound that's causing the vibrational effect it has is so minimal that you couldn't even see it with the human eye. And that's what it's doing. So it's very good for them. You know, it's

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Josh Dech - CHN (32:22.475)
Wow. Amazing.

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Siggi Clavien (32:39.896)
One of the reasons, kind of off topic, but one of the reasons the liver is so important to be squishy is the liver can grow up to 40%. So when it's rebuilding, it'll blow up by 40 % and then come back down. And the softer it is, the ability for it to do that, kind of like the ocean, it tides in and out and that's how the liver works and blood flow works and breathing works. If it starts to get stiff, its ability to do that has been stymied.

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Therefore, its functionality goes down. That's why think stiffness is such a key, is a key important. When we, there's a circadian rhythm with the liver as well. You the liver does most of its rebuilding whilst we sleep, generally between one to three in the morning, if you're on a normal schedule. And the, when we sleep,

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The two main physiological functions that happen is one, obviously we're shut down. So we're not expending all this energy, know, thinking and speaking and hearing and listening and touching and smelling and tasting and all that. Everything shut down. So then the body's okay. First the brain will start cashing all the memories for the day.

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And it's like a hard drive. If you turn your computer off and you can hear it's still the hard drive running, it's the same exact same technology, just one's biological and one's technical is it's caching all the memories. That's why if you're training or learning, sleep is incredibly important. In fact, sleeping is the most important thing for health. First, foremost. Nothing will cause you more damage in life than lack of sleep. But the other thing that happens physiologically is your liver starts doing all of its repair.

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Josh Dech - CHN (34:03.479)
Sure.

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Siggi Clavien (34:11.064)
So your liver starts repairing and regenerating because it has all this energy now to use that it didn't have throughout the day because you're spending energy doing other things. And in doing so, your liver starts all of its repair work. And it tends to do that in the middle of the night. That's one reason it's interesting is a direct correlation between when obviously when you drink a lot of alcohol, it affects your HRV and it affects your sleep. Alcohol, you can fall asleep easier.

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but your sleep quality plummets and anybody that has an aura ring or an Apple watch or tracks of sleep can contract that. And there's several reasons for that. But one of which is because and you wake up tired the next day is because you've expended a tremendous amount of calories and energy while you were sleeping because your liver is rushing around trying to repair from all the damage you did to it that day or has been done to it. So that's the interesting aspect of it, the liver. So softer, squishier, happier.

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Josh Dech - CHN (34:56.055)
Hmm.

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Josh Dech - CHN (35:01.44)
Right.

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Josh Dech - CHN (35:07.841)
Got it. Soft, squishy, happy. Liver is opposite of penis. That's basically it. That's the big takeaway you guys have. That's what you want.

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Siggi Clavien (35:12.3)
Yes. Yes. Correct. Nobody. know, flaccid liver, great. Flaccid penis, not so great. Yeah. Yeah.

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Josh Dech - CHN (35:19.565)
Not so great. So fatty liver disease, mean, especially non-alcoholic fatty liver disease is one of the leading causes of liver transplant. Now, I mean, at least that was what was to be predicted. I talked to a doctor, a client of mine many years ago who said by 2025, that's what they expected. And one of the leading causes of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, so fat building up around your liver impeding it's everything was high fructose corn syrup. And here she is in this room of 400 different doctors.

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and they're talking about this on stage of their presentation and said, that's okay though, here's this new drug that we're gonna give to combat the damage to the liver. Rather than just taking the high fructose corn syrup out of foods or talking to other patients about their diet, there's a drug instead. And not one, she looked around, not one doctor was raising their hands, saying, excuse me, what the hell? So we know there's certain dietary things, like high fructose corn syrup, bad, bad for the liver. What else is causing?

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all these liver dysfunctions, fatty liver or stiffness of the liver besides corn syrup.

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Siggi Clavien (36:23.128)
Wow, there's a couple of interesting things I want to do. I want to do that. We'll chat on the high fructose corn syrup with that's done. We'll talk the effects of sugar versus like fake sugar and synthetics and how you can actually we're seeing people get fatty liver quicker on a diet soda than we would on a coke. And then also how the the narrative was hijacked by the pharmaceuticals in that conversation where there there this this obsession with reactive medicine and monetizing people that are ill.

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Josh Dech - CHN (36:38.956)
Really?

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Siggi Clavien (36:51.956)
as opposed to focusing on preventing people from getting ill and the root cause of the issue. That what happened in that room is a great testament, an example of what is wrong with the Western medical system, specifically in the US and why people such as RFK and Bobby and Maha and us and we're a partner of Maha or part of this movement to change that. Let me give you a quick example. And then I digress. I bump around a little bit and we'll come back to those points. Here's a great.

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Josh Dech - CHN (36:56.621)
Man, what a mess that is,

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Josh Dech - CHN (37:17.697)
No, please, jump all over it. We're following the bandwagon, yeah.

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Siggi Clavien (37:20.448)
a great correlation, is so when every in the United States, when every president comes into power, his the first lady will pick an area that's very important to her and she'll she'll champion that. Nancy Reagan was the war on drugs. Laura Bush was child illiteracy. Melania Trump was bullying. And Michelle Obama had picked child obesity as a topic that she was going to really go after, which is a huge, huge, huge, huge problem.

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And they put together the foundation and the group and they really started going at it. And at the beginning, it was based off of dietary and all the sugar and high fructose corn syrup and artificial sweeteners, crap that they were giving to children, which is the leading cause of childhood obesity. Within a very short amount of time, as private organizations were allowed to fund this movement.

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A lot of the funding came in from groups such as Cargill, right? One of the largest corn manufacturers in the world, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, fast food industry. They pumped hundreds of millions into this cause and very slowly the narrative switched from child obesity is caused by the food that we're feeding our children to suddenly, no, no, no, no, no, it's lack of exercise. And so they started blaming child obesity and lack of exercise.

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Josh Dech - CHN (38:26.733)
Hmm.

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Josh Dech - CHN (38:35.117)
Mm.

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Siggi Clavien (38:38.552)
as opposed to the root cause of it. And that's an example of how that narrative was hijacked slowly. Not Michelle Obama's fault. It's the capitalist society, how that went in and was able to affect that. And they weren't able to turn it. You know, it's trying to like turn an oil tanker once it's going. And that is and that's kind of similar to that scenario there where you've got this doctor preaching to a bunch of other doctors that unfortunately the mindset and the paradigm is profiteering off of people that are sick.

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Josh Dech - CHN (38:54.583)
Mm-hmm.

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Siggi Clavien (39:09.174)
And what love about traditional Chinese medicine and Eastern medicine is you will pay your practitioner, your doctor, every month and he'll put together your herbs and he'll check on you and that's the relationship. And if you get ill, they stop charging you until you're better. So the paradigm and the incentive is to prevent you from getting sick as opposed to profiteering when you are sick. And that's the difference. And that's why in the United States,

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Josh Dech - CHN (39:34.925)
Hmm.

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Siggi Clavien (39:39.352)
I'll give you an example. So, and I learned this from Bobby Kennedy and Del Bigtree, which is mind-blowing. We all think of the oil and gas industry as like incredibly powerful, right? We've got several wars over it and it controls so much of the government with lobbying. The pharmaceutical industry spends nine times on lobbying with the oil and gas does. That 9X, that's how powerful they are.

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And that's why and what they've also done is if anybody that I don't watch television, but if you do watch television United States, it's creeping into the UK where where I live to is 80 % of the commercials are drug companies. So whether you're watching CNN or Fox or the History Channel, all the commercials are most of them are drugs, right? So you're programming. That's what they call it. You're the programming the population to over this drugs, drugs, drugs to do. And then you'll hear this.

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The. A lot of these pharmaceuticals, the side effect lists are horrifying, but they're so long that you kind of like white noise now if you watch a commercial. But you actually sit there and like put it on like closed caption read it. It's like, my goodness. These side effects are dreadful. So that that's kind of that's the world that we live in right now and the world that we're in. It is changing. And God, you know, it's gotten I think that the pendulum has swung so far that it's coming back. And think that's why the new, you know,

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Maha movement and RFK and what they're doing is trying to get rid of these food dyes. Like food dyes, right? Cancer causing. Abandoned most of Europe, abandoned the country, but here. And the biggest people you target with food dyes are children.

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Josh Dech - CHN (41:13.335)
Sure.

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Josh Dech - CHN (41:18.357)
Yeah, yeah.

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Siggi Clavien (41:20.44)
And so fructose corn syrup and you can talk to any you know I've got some of the top liver transplant doctors in the world are on my board and my chief medical officer is a liver and pancreatic surgical oncologist. Right. Thirty five years he's been doing this. was so good that the Cleveland Clinic pulled him from UK and he was at Cleveland Clinic for a while. And he also got fed up with that system and he's now our chief medical officer. And he'll tell you as well as you know other great great advocates whether it's Dr. Shah or Professor Jalan or all these great

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Siggi Clavien (41:56.973)
You'd see it and I was just talking to a general in the US Army the other day. Just socially, just another business. And he is a, does a lot of operations and transplants. He's a general in the Army, he's surgeon.

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And he said, yes, it's fatty liver. We used to see it again. He said, yeah, we're just trying to repair a liver that's been damaged by fat is so much more difficult because all the sutures tear and it's as from a from a surgeon trying to repair bullet wound to a fatty liver is so much more difficult than if it wasn't fatty. And then I talked to Dr. Shaw and the doctors, said, well, yeah, we don't really see fatty liver until the early 80s. And they're like, well, that's funny. So let's think about this. The late 60s, 70s, Japanese technology comes out and they develop this thing called high fructose corn syrup. How do we take this off?

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Josh Dech - CHN (42:26.125)
Hmm.

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Siggi Clavien (42:40.812)
or unused part of corn and we extract this basically fake sugar or fake sweetener out of it and take something that had no value and now it's really cheap. And because it's so cheap to make and because the United States produces so much corn it's even cheaper and then it's subsidized so it's even cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. And then it gets adopted by bread companies and Coca-Cola and Pepsi and McDonald's and...

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cereals and you name it, right, General Mills, they started replacing all this sugar with high fructose corn syrup. And suddenly, right about that time, five years later, there's explosion of fatty liver disease and it's accelerating. So that is where it's really driving it as well. one of the reasons which ties in why we're also seeing

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Josh Dech - CHN (43:22.797)
Hmm.

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Siggi Clavien (43:32.856)
Some of the worst cases of fatty liver disease we see, because we have the liver clinic, right? So we have our clinics and then we also do a lot of pop ups. know, we might go to people's house and do the whole family or we'll go into an office and do the office. So we'll do it. Go do some charity work. And you're seeing some of the biggest groups of fatty liver, especially like stick a family, for example. This happens over and over. The older generation, a kind of boomer generation, they'll have a little bit of fatty liver. They eat meat and they drink alcohol and it's fatty.

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But the teenagers are the ones that are stage three fatty liver disease, they're pre-diabetic, and they're overweight. And the difference there is obviously you wouldn't expect that with somebody that's in their 20s or late teens. They're drinking Red Bull, they're drinking soda, they're in processed foods, they're drinking diet soda, right? They're overwhelming themselves with chemicals, and they're getting fatty liver, so.

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The clean diet, even with alcohol and meat, is actually much healthier for you than all this dietary foods and these chemicals and synthetics. And that's because we also see patients with fatty liver.

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and it's higher somebody that drinks a lot of diet soda than somebody that drinks diet soda. And at first we're like, well, that's crazy, right? This person has more fat and sugar. You'd think they'd have a much higher fatty liver than the person that drinks diet soda and potentially processed foods. And the reason is, as I mentioned earlier, I think the liver is inherently intelligent. So think of the liver as like it's out there and it's defending you against the 100,000 plus chemicals that have been brought into the human food chain in the last 100 years.

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and it has to defend you. Now if it sees fat and sugar coming at it, it knows what that is and it knows how to deal with it. So it says, you know what, let's store those right now and I'll deal with them later because I've got aspartene and some preservative and all these chemicals that I don't know what it is and that's a bigger threat.

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Siggi Clavien (45:30.004)
So it will focus its enzymatic responses and defending you against those. So it lets sugar and fat get by you. And then you start to build up more fat and sugar than you would because your liver is under bigger threat from all these chemicals that are so unnatural and synthetic it doesn't know what to deal with. And to be fair, probably more damaging. So that's why you start to grow them.

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Josh Dech - CHN (45:44.493)
Hmm.

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Josh Dech - CHN (45:49.422)
So I mean, this response of CIGI, sorry, I said I'm gonna cut you off there, a little audio delay. So this response here, CIGI, of fatty liver developing, it's actually a protective mechanism against what's coming into the liver and you just happen to be storing fat around the liver itself in order to protect it from these toxins, these chemicals, or is there something else going on?

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Siggi Clavien (46:10.584)
It's part of this very complex puzzle. I mean the first and foremost the biggest driver of Fatty liver is gonna be high fructose corn syrup right? That's first and foremost then you've got like sugars and then you've got fat and then you've got

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all the chemicals that come in in pharmaceuticals that are also affecting the liver's function. And then as the liver gets fattier, its ability to break fats down goes down. And its ability to produce the bile to get to the gut to break fatty acids down goes down. So it's not storing the liver fat to protect itself, it's storing it because it can only fight so many battles at once and fighting the fat or as a sugar is less of a fight than fighting some chemical that was made in a lab to

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Josh Dech - CHN (46:33.303)
Mm-hmm.

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Siggi Clavien (46:58.618)
maybe mimic sugar or to keep an organic material on the shelf for a month when it should have dissolved like in days. Though that's what it's fighting. So it's not storing the fat to do that. It's storing the fact that it's going to deal with so much. But the big driver, sedentary lifestyle does it as well. So if you look at a chart of liver disease over the last 50 years, right, it's a great WHO chart. It shows like population growth is like this. Most diseases are kind of like this and we're starting to push them down.

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Josh Dech - CHN (47:10.241)
Gotcha.

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Siggi Clavien (47:29.73)
Liver disease is at 400%. It's a total outlier. If you look at the chart, you're like, what is that? And that's liver disease. So liver disease is at 400%. And a big misnomer that most people in the public, they think, oh, well, I don't drink alcohol, so I don't have a liver problem. Couldn't be further from the truth. 70 % of liver disease is non-alcohol related. 70.

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And a good example of that is two of the highest rates of fatty liver disease in the world are Iran and India. One has zero alcohol and one has incredibly low. Saudi Arabia, very high, higher than the US. UAE, higher than the US, right? It's not alcohol. So that's not what's driving it. mean, when you and I were children, less than 10 %...

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of cirrhosis patients were non-drinkers. Cirrhosis were what alcoholics got, and they still do. But today, 51 % of cirrhosis are non-drinkers. So alcohol is not even the majority anymore for causing cirrhosis. So what's driving this liver health epidemic, you know, you're talking two billion people, is mostly led by ultra-processed foods, high fructose corn syrup.

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Josh Dech - CHN (48:28.269)
Sure, yeah.

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Josh Dech - CHN (48:34.273)
Wow.

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Siggi Clavien (48:51.584)
chemicals into the food bloodstream then you go down then it's alcohol and sedentary lifestyle and fatty as well but The closer to nature you are the closer to something that's real organic or clean or healthy the less chance you're gonna have of developing all kinds of ailments and especially fatty liver because fatty liver leads you down a road to all kinds of stuff which we could get into

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Josh Dech - CHN (49:09.837)
That's wild.

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Josh Dech - CHN (49:14.029)
Yeah, yeah, mean, this is kind of a wild conversation to have because we used to think, well, again, I drink, so I'll have liver problems. I don't drink, I don't have liver problems. And now it's the complete opposite of these progressed liver diseases, not just, well, liver dysfunction or liver is a bit sluggish or liver needs a bit of a tune up or a cleanup. It's like non-alcoholic fatty liver disease.

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is 51 % connected to something else and very, very rarely is it actually now these alcohol things. It's kind of wild to consider. So it's these very insidious things in our environment, our food, our lifestyle that are taking us down piece by piece and rather than a horrible disease like cancer seemingly creeping up out of nowhere, it really is death by a thousand cuts. So I know we don't have a whole ton of time together here, Sigi, and I have a lot more questions, but if you could give us

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sort of the bullet points here. If somebody is dealing with a sluggish liver or on the spectrum of liver disease dysfunction up to say fatty liver, what are the risks here? What else can be happening inside of your system from this?

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Siggi Clavien (50:20.952)
Okay, so as the liver gets fattier, so right now it's 38 % of, let's talk about the US, it's 38 % of the US population is fatty liver disease. They predict it'll be 50 % by 2040.

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Hopefully we're part of this movement, having this chat with you is part of this movement to try to turn that right from hitting the mountain and to bring those numbers down. But as the liver gets fattier, its functionality goes down. So what does that mean? It's controlling the immune system, right? So your immune system is not going be working as good. Your hormone regulation is not going to be working as good. The most important organ for menopause is your liver. That's what we should chat on that too, because that's super important.

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delivers ability.

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because the function goes down because it gets fattier. So it can't run as fast because it's fat, right? It doesn't work as fast. So and then it snowballs. So then you're gaining more fat because it's not able to break the fats down as much as well. And the other thing that happens is your insulin resistance and reaction and all that, that decreases because the surface area of the liver is what it uses to deal with insulin and sugars and how those reactions that we have to do that. So insulin resistance starts to go up. So the fattier the liver, the less surface

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Josh Dech - CHN (51:12.491)
Yeah, it's like a whole human.

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Siggi Clavien (51:36.97)
surface area as the resistance goes up and then you're on the road to type 2 diabetes. When fatty liver, the next progression from fatty liver, you get fatty liver, serious fatty liver and then you go into a thing which is called NASH or now they've renamed it NASH, which is non-alcoholic steatosis hepatitis and that basically means

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non-alcohol driven steatosis, which is fat, has gotten to the point to where it's caused hepatitis. And what that is is you're now getting so much collagen production, right? So you actually get less collagen for the skin and more collagen, and collagen's going into the liver, and it's creating like these veins, like roots. And those in self start to cause liver damage. So you start to get scarring and fibrosis, and your liver starts to get stiffer.

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and then you start to get permanent liver damage. And then what can happen is those connect, and if too many of those connect, which is what happens with cirrhosis, is they will connect and they'll create these little islands of liver tissue. Those islands of liver tissue are now not getting energy or blood flow or oxygen and they die. And that is what cirrhosis is. So cirrhotic liver looks like it's got leopard spots. And those leopard spots are dead tissue.

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And if you get too much of it and you've cut off too many, created too many of these channels of barriers of scarring and fat, you then need a liver transplant. Now, unfortunately, 50 % of people on the liver transplant list don't make it because they die before they get there. And one of the reasons is because liver disease is a silent killer because you don't have a lot of symptoms until you've got a big problem.

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Like when you get it, if you go, if your blood panels off on your liver, as I said, it's a lagging indicator. You've already got problems. So the key to this into overall health is, is functional medicine and root cause medicine and knowing where you're at. That's why we have, that's why we're opening all these liver clinics across the country is to get people get screened as a, as a general diagnostic to see where you're at before. And I, you know, that's great. You know, the old saying, you when did Noah build the Ark?

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Siggi Clavien (53:40.874)
And a lot of people say, before the flood. Yeah, well, actually no. He built it before the rain.

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Josh Dech - CHN (53:47.426)
Hmm.

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Siggi Clavien (53:48.214)
So we want to get before the rain even starts, before the flood happens, before then you have catastrophe. So getting in front of it as much as possible is so, key. then, I mean, some great areas to talk about. Obviously there's this and the screening, there's you know, so digestive system, right? Leaky gut's like a huge problem. Leaky gut causes liver damage.

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Josh Dech - CHN (53:58.776)
Yeah.

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Siggi Clavien (54:12.384)
and liver and bad liver can increase the chances of leaky gut because it's a two-way street between the gut biome, which is incredible, and the liver as well. So leaky gut's biggest concern is, besides obviously your gut biomes out of whack, which a lot of times because of antibiotics, your absorption sucks. And if your absorption sucks of all the nutrients and vitamins, they're not even getting to the liver to store it to use.

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Josh Dech - CHN (54:32.685)
Mm-hmm.

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Siggi Clavien (54:38.464)
And if you get leaky gut, you've now opened these, your defenses are down and now toxins are getting straight into the bloodstream where they should have gone right through the gut, through the small intestines and out. But they're now getting into the bloodstream. Now that's attacking the liver. And then the liver's function is going down.

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Josh Dech - CHN (54:48.961)
Yeah.

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Josh Dech - CHN (54:52.565)
Yeah, yeah.

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Siggi Clavien (54:54.68)
and the liver's ability to produce the bile is to help rebuild the liver. So you see how now it's one's poisoning, you like poisoning the well, the liver's poisoning the well by the liver's ability to then help defend the gut. So it's going to get out of these conditions as well.

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Josh Dech - CHN (55:10.111)
Yeah, and I just done an interview recently here with somebody else. It's not published yet guys, so hang on to your hats. But with Dr. Darrell Joffrey, and we had just discussed that 100 % of the people, he's taken thousands of studies, done thousands of GI maps through his clinic, looking at a marker called zonulin for leaky gut. And some studies will say 50 % of the population has leaky gut, others up to 80. His experience in clinic as a practicing...

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doctor, he's seen a hundred percent of people with leaky gut and we know leaky gut again messes up your liver. So I'd say upwards of a hundred people, a hundred percent of people are going to have some kind of either early onset liver issue, something right now, which brings me to the next question of what I think you're popping right this second. I have it popped up right on my screen right now. I wanted to ask you about deliverance. This liver formula that you've created, who is it for? What does it do?

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Siggi Clavien (56:05.11)
Okay, so I'll start from the beginning. So I'm definitely like a...

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equilibrium labs, root stealing healthcare, the liver clinic, those are my companies and groups movements. And they all started with a why. And my why was, so I was originally studying to be a viticulturist, University of California, best friend dies of a drug overdose, which was an interaction, not an excessiveness, and it was two drugs that made me kill him. So I worked on and developed phytomedicine for 27 years, 28 years now, it's their birthday.

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primarily around detoxification, preventing overdoses, helping with rehabilitation. And in 2003, along the way, my godfather died of cirrhosis and my mentor helped me start my first company after my best friend died, died of liver cancer. So I decided to dedicate my life.

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to trying to advance the future of liver health and bring those numbers down and to go into it. And the more and more that I've gone into it, the more I peel the onion back, the issue's bigger and bigger and bigger. So when I started, I think the official numbers were 28 % of the country had fatty liver disease.

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Like 25%. Now it's, you know, this is 20 years ago. Now it's 38%. Right. So it's crazy how fast it's accelerating. And we made it my life's mission and goal to advance the future of liver health. That's our why. How we do that is through phytomedicines or plant medicines. And so we started developing, working on what's now called deliverance. And the formula took 18 years to create and it's based off traditional herbal medicine. So it's a hundred percent plant based. It's a hundred percent.

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Siggi Clavien (57:40.378)
natural but we combine the best of medical western technology

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to create that. And that's why we obsess everything from the nanoparticles, so goes into the bloodstream to make it more bioavailable. You know, what's happening? So we do spend millions on clinical studies and scientific research to see what's happening in the body. And everything that we formulated is directly tied to a patient outcome and to data and to evidence. So a lot of people formulate, I put all these great ingredients together and it should be great. Here you go. And they start selling it.

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We actually did the studies first and started selling it. then in turn, what we do is we, our ideal scenario is a client goes and gets a blood test or a scan with their practitioner, with us, whomever, that's unimportant. What's important is they know where they're at. We will then start them on to deliver and send a nutritional and dietary protocol. And then we test you again as soon as 90 days and the proof's in the pudding, the proof's in the data.

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And so that's what Deliverance does and that's why we have the liver clinics. We created the liver clinics out of a need, not out of a want. And the product...

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is I built it just like the human body. The human body is so incredible, right? So and I say they're both like a symphony. A symphony doesn't sound amazing and isn't mathematically wonderful and relaxing or invigorating or what have you because of the cello or because of the violin or because of the conductor. It's because everything working in congruence and in synchronization to create something beautiful. That's how the human body works. And so it's not just about the gut or it's not just about the liver or the heart. It's got to be giving together.

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Siggi Clavien (59:20.272)
So I formulate off of that principle. And deliverance has three main pillars. It stands on one. It dramatically improves liver function.

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And we do that with substance. We work at the bile, the spleen, oxidation of the blood, blood flow, right? That's what we look at to formulate. The other, has a neurotropic in it. So when you take it, you get mental clarity right away. And that's the nanoparticle. So in literally about two minutes, you'll start to feel more mental clarity and you're thinking faster and clearer. And that's because we're increasing neurotransmission.

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Josh Dech - CHN (59:36.034)
Mm-hmm.

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Josh Dech - CHN (59:42.317)
Mm.

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Siggi Clavien (59:51.232)
And then thirdly, it's very, very high in antioxidants to deal with your radicals, but also anti-inflammatories. And I'm trying to break this cycle that a lot of people get into. Inflammation is a root cause of many, many diseases.

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is we have oxidative stress that can lead to more inflammation. Inflammation can lead to oxidative stress and you get stuck in this vicious circle. And I want to stop that cycle by hitting you with a lot of antioxidants and anti-inflammatories in a very good bioavailable effective way to then get you out of a destructive cycle into a positive rebuilding cycle. And that's what deliverance does. just like, you know, in reversible, there's a meaning to the name. Deliverance has that meaning as well. And that's why it's

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Josh Dech - CHN (01:00:13.366)
Mm-hmm.

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Siggi Clavien (01:00:34.574)
D-e-liver-ins.

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We called it that not because it has the word liver in the middle of it, which is appropriate, is because the word means to take you from evil to good or to take you from bad health to good health. And that's what we do and we focus. We want to prevent you from getting to bad health, but we will also help take you and give you deliverance from, you know, like they use it in church a lot, deliverance from evil. Right. And that's why there's a lot of meaning in what we do. And we, to get it more effective, you know, if we were money obsessed,

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Josh Dech - CHN (01:01:00.685)
Sure.

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Siggi Clavien (01:01:09.238)
to keep it really bioavailable, the energy and everything incredible, it's in a liquid form. So it's a concentrated liquid. It tastes like mesquite, honey and peppermint. You drink it, drink a big glass of water. You start to feel mental clarity right away. Within weeks, your skin and your hair improve. And that's because your liver's improving. So your skin and your hair get better. You start to get better sleep because we're starting to metabolize liver fat.

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And if you look at the third, the long-term function, which you can measure with blood tests and scanning, is liver fat comes down dramatically. If you're cholesterolemic, comes down, triglycerides go down, LDL goes down, HDL goes up. So your blood sugar level starts to balance out.

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And so it's all measurable through evidence and biomarker as well as you're feeling good. know, lot of people are obsessed with left brain. What does the data say? What does the data say? Then you people right brain that are like, well, I just want to know. I want to feel good.

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you know, ideally we should all be balanced in life between left brain and right brain. So I want to, I want to feel good. I want to know I'm good. I want to think I'm good. And I want to see it from data as well. So it's, it's a combination of those and how we formulate and how we do the patients and, know, diet's very important because it's much, it's much easier or quicker for us to reverse your fatty liver. If you listen to our health protocols and we work with you, you know, you'll have, we'll have a net positive effect either way, but working together and getting people diet and maybe

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Josh Dech - CHN (01:02:32.951)
Mm-hmm.

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Siggi Clavien (01:02:41.87)
One of the greatest compliments I was ever given was after a scientific study we did with 70 people, was one of the participants said, you know, one of the things this study really taught me, you know, they were happy that they didn't have to go on statins. fact, what really touched me was they said, being on this study has now made me look at the back of a package in anything I eat now.

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Think of what a difference that would make globally if everybody just looked at what you're ingesting. And I would say that the one thing we can all do for health...

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Josh Dech - CHN (01:03:07.724)
Yeah.

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Siggi Clavien (01:03:12.012)
that is instant and it's free is be conscious. Be conscious of what we're eating. Be conscious of what we're drinking. Be conscious of what we're breathing. Be conscious of what we're thinking, right? Toxicity comes in many forms. It could be electromagnetic. It could be through negative thoughts. It could be through what we eat, drink. You we absorb toxins not just in what we eat or what we drink. We're breathing them in.

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You're getting electromagnetic EMF toxicity, but also in your skin. The skin excretes toxins, but it also brings toxins in. Like what's in the deodorant I'm using? What's in the sunscreen? What's in the shampoo?

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Josh Dech - CHN (01:03:40.93)
Yeah.

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Josh Dech - CHN (01:03:48.632)
What's in all the tattoo ink covering both of my arms and my ribs and legs? Man, had I known the things I know now way back when, I probably wouldn't have done this to myself. There's so much in a toxic world, but we obviously have to stay on top of it. This deliverance product you have, I'm looking at it here on the website, comes in these little tubes. How do you dose this? How do you take this? Is it a daily thing? Is it a once a week thing? What's kind of optimal and what's typical?

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Siggi Clavien (01:03:52.545)
Yeah.

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Siggi Clavien (01:04:15.777)
So most people take one a day and it becomes part of your basic stack for your health stack because it has anti-inflammatory, immune, liver, cholesterol, mental health. It covers a lot of supplements in one stack on top of it. If you've got severe fatty liver disease, type 2 diabetic, or undergoing chemo, it might be two a day until we get you to the green. The minute you're in the green, you go down to one. Some people just use it super healthy. They might do like a week on.

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or maybe they're really healthy and they went out and had some cocktails on Friday. They might just take one afterwards to reverse the effects. It's incredibly effective at reducing toxicity, whether it's chemo or alcohol or anything like that. So you have people that just use it acutely. I'd say most people take it every day and they're taking it to either prevent fatty liver or to bring it down.

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Keep cholesterol in balance, skin and hair. And then you have about a third that just use it for, I've got surgeons, stockbrokers, race card people, guys in the military, they'll take it just for the shot of mental clarity, because they love it because the last six hours. Or they're taking it after a cocktail, or they're taking it before they drink, like a lot of sommeliers use it, because if your liver's functioning really well, you absorb alcohol slower. So they'll take it before they do like a wine tasting, because you don't absorb as much alcohol, and then they take one after to get rid of it. So it can be used either

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Josh Dech - CHN (01:05:14.317)
Gotcha.

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Siggi Clavien (01:05:41.298)
way in those scenarios. It's very versatile. You can take it any time of the day. We do have found that the majority of our clients are actually women.

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The best time for women to take it is between 2 to 5 in the afternoon because how women's circadian clock works is they tend to get an energetic dip that time of the day. Women are generally more alert in the morning and then they have an energetic dip in the afternoon. We learn this from all of our clients. They take it then because they like the mental clarity so they don't necessarily take a coffee or a caffeine. It gives them that pick-me-up and that's the time of day that they'll take their daily dose.

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Josh Dech - CHN (01:06:01.581)
Hmm.

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Siggi Clavien (01:06:20.603)
tend to take it in the morning because I think they want to get the supplements and get it out of the way. know, obviously these are generalities. Yeah. Yeah. And then, yeah.

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Josh Dech - CHN (01:06:25.185)
That's true. Yeah, yeah, we do. Sure. So when we take this, I mean, it looks like a little bottle. I mean, have you ever had anybody just drink the bottle? This is little. I mean, it's not I don't know what to compare it to. It's like a bottle of Dramamine almost same size and shape. You ever had anybody take this and like, I got diarrhea or I detox too quickly.

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Siggi Clavien (01:06:46.488)
We've produced and sold well over a million bottles of it. We don't know of any major adverse reactions or effects because, and one of the reasons is because it's so natural, right? Your efficacy rate goes up. The closer you are to nature, your efficacy goes up and side effects come down.

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Josh Dech - CHN (01:06:50.017)
Wow.

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Siggi Clavien (01:07:02.7)
And it was formulated like everything has a purpose. So the peppermint that's in there is an organic peppermint oil I have made in France. And it's in there to balance out stomach acid and to help with the spleen and with bile production. And it's also got a nice flavor. The honey I use is I use mesquite honey, which is one of the major flavors. And the reason is because honey is like a medicine from nature. It's antifungal, it's antiparasitic, it's high in antioxidant, it's high in polyphenols. I use the mesquite honey for two reasons. One,

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It's like the Manuka of North America, super high polyphenol count.

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And secondarily, it's got a cool flavor profile where there's a little spice in the back note. The other main use of Mesquite in food is barbecue sauce comes from Mesquite bark. So Mesquite has a spice to it, so it affects the flavor profile. But the honey's in there as a more for medicinally and therapeutically not as a flavor, but it just happens coincidentally. North America, whether it be First Nations, Canada, Native Americans, etc.

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is it was good, like a tree of life was the Mesquite tree, because there's so many medicinal uses come out of it. So I use that in there too, for that particular effect. So we are touching on a lot of different things, but, and it's got a low glycemic index, right? We didn't get into it, but the, you know, type two diabetics, the root cause of type two diabetics, some would say 70 to 90 % of type two diabetics have fatty liver disease.

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So it's got a low glycemic index whereas sugar is 100. This is like in the 30s. So it's very good for them.

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Josh Dech - CHN (01:08:30.679)
Just not spiking blood sugar, you know? Good. Well, that's amazing. I'm gonna have to get ahold of some and definitely try it out myself.

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It's something that I know I've actually got an active parasite infection I've been working on now, but I did get a Prunovio full body MRI and they did find some little cysts on my liver, which correlate back to the flukes and things I know I've got going on. This can really be a nice boost. So I'll definitely have to try some out. Sigi, if somebody wants to get a hold of you, want to find deliverance, want to learn more about you, where can they do that? Where do want to send people after this?

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Siggi Clavien (01:09:06.274)
So the best place would be loveyourliver.com. So that's the name of the website and it's easy to remember and it makes people smile. So loveyourliver.com. Yeah, and that's true because we always start loving ourselves and appreciating this organ that most people don't know what it does, where it is, how important it is, has just such a dramatic effect on health. Yeah.

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Josh Dech - CHN (01:09:14.721)
Does make me smile, yeah.

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Josh Dech - CHN (01:09:28.769)
I love it. Love your liver.com. Well, make sure you guys head down there. Check it out. Pick up some deliverance. I'm looking at on the website. It looks fantastic. So I'll pick up myself and let you guys know how it goes. Sigi man. Thank you so much. Brilliant. Learned a lot. So much.

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Siggi Clavien (01:09:39.97)
Perfect. Yeah. We got a lot more to cover, so we should probably, we didn't even get into metabolic syndrome and metabolic disease or menopause. Yeah.

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Josh Dech - CHN (01:09:46.743)
Hardly touched it. This is like a weekend symposium, but I appreciate the snippet. I think it's been incredible and I appreciate your time, your expertise and your passion that comes from a rough road that brought you here. We appreciate you being here.

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Siggi Clavien (01:09:59.586)
Yeah, absolutely. Pleasure to be here. Thank you for your time.