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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>Welcome to</c> Next in Tech, <c.lt_90>an</c> <c.lt_80>S&P Global</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_80>Podcast</c> where the <c.lt_80>world of emerging tech</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_80>lives. I'm your host,</c> <c.lt_90>Eric</c> Hanselman,</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>Chief Analyst for Industry</c> Research at</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>S&P Global. And today, we're going to be</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>looking at Mobile <c.lt_90>World Congress.</c> <c.lt_80>There</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_80>are a number of us who were there just</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_80>back from Barcelona. And I want to get</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_80>the takes</c> <c.lt_90>from the analyst team as</c> to</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>what <c.lt_90>they saw was different this year and</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>what was top of mind</c> in terms of what was</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>taking place in the <c.lt_90>Ferro Grand Via there</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>in Barcelona.</c> With me to discuss it are</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>Raul Castañon <c.lt_90>and Rich</c> Karpinski, and</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>welcome back to the podcast to you both.</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez> <c.lt_80>Thank you. Happy to be here.</c></v>

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<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>Thanks, Eric.</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>With <c.lt_90>100,000 of our closest friends,</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_80>although, I guess, to start</c> <c.lt_90>off with,</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>maybe not</c> quite 100,000 of our closest</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>friends, there <c.lt_90>were some</c> travel problems</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>because of the recent conflict going on,</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>which seemed to color things a little</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>bit. But I guess let's maybe start off</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>with what was interesting and where were</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>things headed. There was certainly a <c.lt_90>lot</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>of AI, a lot of what was taking place</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>with the network operators. This is --</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>for those who don't know, the Mobile</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>World Congress is really the <c.lt_90>telecom</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>world's gathering place every year. And</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>the thing that's been interesting about</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>it is that it has expanded dramatically</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>to touch all manner of different aspects</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>of technology. And so really, it's now a</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>little bit of everything that's <c.lt_90>under the</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>roof of the FIA, all what, 7-plus halls</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>that are all taking place. So what we</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>thought? So</c> Raul, <c.lt_80>what</c> <c.lt_90>was your take? And</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>what do you find interesting there?</c></v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>Yes. So I've been fortunate enough to be</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>there already. I think it's going to be</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>like <c.lt_90>10</c> years. And the way it has evolved</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>and the way it is now, I feel has changed</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>significantly. I remember back in my</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>early days, there was a strong focus on</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>mobile devices. That's where they</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>announced the new devices or the players.</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>What I see different now this year is a</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>strong emphasis on how mobile network</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>operators are shifting their business</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>model. Now I'm aware that this is a</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>conversation that has been going on for a</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>long time, and I know both of you are</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>well aware of that. What I see different</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>though is that I see maybe more</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>practicality in terms of the discussions</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>and also examples of where this is</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>happening. I do think we are in the midst</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>of a transition from the so-called long</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>pipe to talking more about connectivity</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>as a business.</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>It is something where if we think about</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>the evolution for the operators, this has</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>been something where they've always</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>wanted to be able to take the latest and</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>greatest technology, be the service</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>provider of interest or certainly the</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>ones that are able to go deliver it, but</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>they've faced a set of challenges in</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>terms of being able to leverage this. And</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>it seems like AI is that next stage and</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>some of the chances for where this is</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>headed certainly may <c.lt_90>create some</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>opportunities. But it is</c> <c.lt_80>to the point</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_80>that you</c> <c.lt_90>raised, something where they're</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>going to have to be able to take that</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>opportunity and run with it in order to</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>turn these into a real opportunity.</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>Yes, I agree. And I could probably</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>emphasize that the focus is moving also</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>from my perspective from consumer to</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>enterprise, which was, in my mind, always</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>aspirational, but really always remained</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>as mobile network operators usually</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>remained as just the pipe and selling</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>devices. I do see now more conversations</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>regarding the business model to deliver</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>connectivity and address specific</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>enterprise <c.lt_90>pain points.</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>Well, it's something where if you think</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>about the opportunities in the enterprise</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>side, there are certainly a lot of things</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>that we could pull into that would add</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>significant value from a network</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>perspective. It's a lot of the things</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>you've <c.lt_90>been</c> talking about in your</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>research in terms <c.lt_90>of</c> network-delivered</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>services that can actually start to make</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>a difference not only in areas of overall</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>functionality, but also as a foundation</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>of trust and to be able to leverage maybe</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>some of the -- that core infrastructure</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>capability that the operators, telecom</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>operators have.</c></v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>Yes, absolutely right. So I think that</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>looking at the bigger picture, we did see</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>network APIs become central part of the</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>conversation 2 years ago, not so much</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>this year in terms of presence in the</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>keynotes. However, there were a lot of</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>backroom conversations going on. So</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>that's still an ongoing topic of</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>discussion. I still see some hesitation</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>with some network operators in terms of</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>diving fully with the network API</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>initiatives. <c.lt_90>But the leaders,</c> the leading</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez> <c.lt_90>operators, Telefonica, Vodafone, Deutsche</c></v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez> <c.lt_90>Telekom, they are fully invested in</c> it <c.lt_90>as</c></v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez> <c.lt_90>well as vendors, Ericsson4B.</c> So I feel</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>that's slowly coming together. And what I</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>have seen so far is a strong focus on the</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>enterprise use cases. Now interestingly,</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>and to your point, the -- it's basically</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>about leveraging network capabilities and</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>being more, I think, refined in the</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>business cases and pricing models, like</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>we said before, going beyond just</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>providing connectivity and selling</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>devices to more sophisticated solutions</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>to enterprise pain points. And parallel</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>to that, I was also looking at what I</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>refer to as trusted communications, which</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>interestingly is also leveraging network</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>level capabilities. And this could be to</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>protect consumers and brands from</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez> <c.lt_90>robocols,ish mission,</c> basically creating</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>a more secure environment for the use of</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>mobile communications. This is also at</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>the network level. I could point to a</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>couple of examples. vendors like First</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>Orion <c.lt_80>and</c> <c.lt_90>iConnect, now</c> <c.lt_80>part of</c> <c.lt_90>ENS, --</c></v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez> <c.lt_90>they were there. They had a large poo.</c></v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez> <c.lt_90>And</c> what I find really interesting in the</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>case of First Orion, for example, it's</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>actually a company that started out with</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>an over-the-top application, mainly</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>focused on consumers, and it has evolved</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>over the years to become a network level</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>solution where their clients are the</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>network operators. So I think it</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>illustrates how these problems are being</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>addressed at the network level with a</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>focus on enterprises that want to help</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>brands protect their reputation and their</v>

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<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>customers.</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>And a lot of this is basically leveraging</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>the tight identity connection that the</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>operators have got and being able to be</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>that <c.lt_90>foundation</c> <c.lt_80>addressed. We see whether</c></v>

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<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_80>or</c> <c.lt_90>not --</c> where we can take that in terms</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>of capabilities. And especially when we</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>look at capabilities around AI, more</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>trust is certainly good. We saw an awful</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>lot going on <c.lt_90>in</c> that front. But Rich,</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>what were you seeing from the AI side? As</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>seems to be the fashion, there was no</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>shortage of AI in everything, in all</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>different respects. But one of the things</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>that I saw was that at least there seems</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>to be a maturing of an understanding of</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>what are practical use cases and where</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>that's headed. What were you seeing out</v>

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<v Eric Hanselman>there?</v>

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<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>Yes. There's</c> always a danger of AI</v>

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<v Rich Karpinski>washing at any event like this. And I</v>

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<v Rich Karpinski>think you do have to separate out what's</v>

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<v Rich Karpinski>real and what's on the slides. I think it</v>

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<v Rich Karpinski>was a good reality check, I think, for</v>

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<v Rich Karpinski>the telecom sector, the event. There was</v>

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<v Rich Karpinski>a lot of energy around AI. If you look</v>

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<v Rich Karpinski>back a year or 2 ago, it's fairly <c.lt_90>simple.</c></v>

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<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>Gen AI was all Gen</c> <c.lt_80>AI. It</c> <c.lt_90>was copilots,</c></v>

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<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>it was chatbots, et</c> cetera, sitting</v>

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<v Rich Karpinski>alongside operators to give them some</v>

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<v Rich Karpinski>level of assistance. And this is pretty</v>

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<v Rich Karpinski>similar to what we've seen in other</v>

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<v Rich Karpinski>industries like manufacturing as well,</v>

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<v Rich Karpinski>where that's where the starting point</v>

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<v Rich Karpinski>was. The conversations, I think, around</v>

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<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>AI at the show moving 2 directions: AI</c></v>

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<v Rich Karpinski>for telco infrastructure in support of</v>

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<v Rich Karpinski>telco infrastructure, so automating the</v>

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<v Rich Karpinski>network with Agentic AI workflows, moving</v>

00:08:46.820 --> 00:08:49.780
<v Rich Karpinski>on to that next level of AI. Again, this</v>

00:08:49.860 --> 00:08:52.980
<v Rich Karpinski>is nothing really <c.lt_90>brand new in terms of</c></v>

00:08:53.060 --> 00:08:55.620
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>automation.</c> I go back quite a ways in the</v>

00:08:55.700 --> 00:08:58.500
<v Rich Karpinski>telecom sector as well. I was talking to</v>

00:08:58.580 --> 00:09:01.860
<v Rich Karpinski>Bell Labs <c.lt_90>many</c> decades ago about <c.lt_90>machine</c></v>

00:09:01.860 --> 00:09:03.540
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>learning within these</c> <c.lt_80>networks and expert</c></v>

00:09:03.540 --> 00:09:06.500
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_70>systems. So a</c> <c.lt_80>continuum, but we're at a</c></v>

00:09:06.500 --> 00:09:09.220
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>point now with Agentic</c> and the latest</v>

00:09:09.860 --> 00:09:13.060
<v Rich Karpinski>applications of AI where the time has</v>

00:09:13.220 --> 00:09:15.380
<v Rich Karpinski>come for it to be -- for the network to</v>

00:09:15.460 --> 00:09:17.060
<v Rich Karpinski>be very similar to what we see in the</v>

00:09:17.140 --> 00:09:18.980
<v Rich Karpinski>cloud world with the ability to very</v>

00:09:19.140 --> 00:09:23.290
<v Rich Karpinski>dynamically cost effectively put circuits</v>

00:09:23.370 --> 00:09:25.130
<v Rich Karpinski>and put connectivity up and down on</v>

00:09:25.290 --> 00:09:27.770
<v Rich Karpinski>demand in response to enterprise</v>

00:09:27.930 --> 00:09:30.810
<v Rich Karpinski>requirements in real time and with</v>

00:09:31.050 --> 00:09:32.810
<v Rich Karpinski>insights back into the network about</v>

00:09:32.970 --> 00:09:35.210
<v Rich Karpinski>capacity and the ability to do that in a</v>

00:09:35.210 --> 00:09:37.130
<v Rich Karpinski>telco affordable fashion <c.lt_90>as</c> well, so</v>

00:09:37.290 --> 00:09:39.690
<v Rich Karpinski>matching costs all around. That level of</v>

00:09:39.770 --> 00:09:42.410
<v Rich Karpinski>optimization is really, I think, the goal</v>

00:09:42.570 --> 00:09:44.810
<v Rich Karpinski>of operators these days. And again, it</v>

00:09:44.890 --> 00:09:48.250
<v Rich Karpinski>matches what the AI industry at large</v>

00:09:48.570 --> 00:09:50.650
<v Rich Karpinski>needs in terms of networking support for</v>

00:09:50.730 --> 00:09:53.530
<v Rich Karpinski>AI. Hyperscalers are definitely as they</v>

00:09:53.850 --> 00:09:56.250
<v Rich Karpinski>have done in cloud and on edge and on</v>

00:09:56.410 --> 00:09:59.210
<v Rich Karpinski>data center threatening or very capable</v>

00:09:59.370 --> 00:10:01.690
<v Rich Karpinski>of <c.lt_90>going over the top around</c> and</v>

00:10:01.850 --> 00:10:03.930
<v Rich Karpinski>alongside telcos when it comes to</v>

00:10:03.930 --> 00:10:05.370
<v Rich Karpinski>networks, whether it's between data</v>

00:10:05.530 --> 00:10:07.210
<v Rich Karpinski>centers, whether it's to the cloud,</v>

00:10:07.290 --> 00:10:09.690
<v Rich Karpinski>whether it's via dark fiber or some other</v>

00:10:09.850 --> 00:10:11.930
<v Rich Karpinski>kind of connection. But there very much</v>

00:10:12.090 --> 00:10:13.930
<v Rich Karpinski>is a role. And those more automated</v>

00:10:13.930 --> 00:10:16.830
<v Rich Karpinski>networks and the ability to be part of</v>

00:10:16.910 --> 00:10:19.870
<v Rich Karpinski>that AI ecosystem also gives the CSP</v>

00:10:20.190 --> 00:10:23.150
<v Rich Karpinski>universe an ability to have -- provide</v>

00:10:23.390 --> 00:10:26.030
<v Rich Karpinski>infrastructure for AI. So you've got AI</v>

00:10:26.110 --> 00:10:28.110
<v Rich Karpinski>for telco infrastructure and then you've</v>

00:10:28.110 --> 00:10:29.310
<v Rich Karpinski>got their ability to deliver</v>

00:10:29.470 --> 00:10:32.350
<v Rich Karpinski>infrastructure. So networks, localized</v>

00:10:32.510 --> 00:10:35.710
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>GPU as a service, AI</c> factories was one of</v>

00:10:35.710 --> 00:10:38.430
<v Rich Karpinski>the buzzwords at the show. And some of</v>

00:10:38.510 --> 00:10:40.350
<v Rich Karpinski>the core attributes of operators, which</v>

00:10:40.430 --> 00:10:42.430
<v Rich Karpinski>is they work within <c.lt_90>regions. They've got</c></v>

00:10:42.590 --> 00:10:44.830
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>sovereignty ability to</c> deliver sovereign</v>

00:10:44.910 --> 00:10:46.270
<v Rich Karpinski>networks that are not crossing</v>

00:10:46.350 --> 00:10:48.590
<v Rich Karpinski>boundaries. They're closer to where AI</v>

00:10:48.750 --> 00:10:51.630
<v Rich Karpinski>data or AI endpoints are generating</v>

00:10:51.870 --> 00:10:53.870
<v Rich Karpinski>massive amounts of data. So if they can</v>

00:10:53.950 --> 00:10:56.430
<v Rich Karpinski>do some local processing, it can cut down</v>

00:10:56.510 --> 00:11:00.140
<v Rich Karpinski>on connectivity <c.lt_90>and cloud storage</c> -- you</v>

00:11:00.140 --> 00:11:01.900
<v Rich Karpinski>can do inferencing out at the edge where</v>

00:11:01.980 --> 00:11:03.340
<v Rich Karpinski>the decision-making needs to be real</v>

00:11:03.580 --> 00:11:05.420
<v Rich Karpinski>time. So there's some real opportunities</v>

00:11:05.580 --> 00:11:07.740
<v Rich Karpinski>for the telco industry to play within the</v>

00:11:07.740 --> 00:11:09.740
<v Rich Karpinski>AI ecosystem. There are also great</v>

00:11:09.820 --> 00:11:11.660
<v Rich Karpinski>dangers for them to be routed around by</v>

00:11:11.740 --> 00:11:13.340
<v Rich Karpinski>everybody from cloud providers to the</v>

00:11:13.420 --> 00:11:15.660
<v Rich Karpinski>enterprises themselves delivering and</v>

00:11:15.820 --> 00:11:17.260
<v Rich Karpinski>managing their own infrastructure. So</v>

00:11:18.060 --> 00:11:19.980
<v Rich Karpinski>it's a very common tail for operators.</v>

00:11:20.060 --> 00:11:21.900
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>They want to</c> be a <c.lt_90>techco, which was the</c></v>

00:11:21.900 --> 00:11:24.700
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>buzz even a few more</c> years ago, <c.lt_90>right?</c></v>

00:11:24.700 --> 00:11:25.980
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>But there are some</c> <c.lt_80>real opportunities,</c></v>

00:11:25.980 --> 00:11:28.540
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_80>and we saw some interesting news and</c></v>

00:11:28.540 --> 00:11:30.380
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_80>conversations with Red</c> <c.lt_90>Hat and with</c></v>

00:11:30.380 --> 00:11:32.620
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>Microsoft and with AWS</c> and others along</v>

00:11:32.620 --> 00:11:34.540
<v Rich Karpinski>with their telco partners, Red Hat and</v>

00:11:34.620 --> 00:11:36.700
<v Rich Karpinski>Telenor delivering AI factories in</v>

00:11:36.700 --> 00:11:38.940
<v Rich Karpinski>Europe. And this is not just against</v>

00:11:39.020 --> 00:11:40.780
<v Rich Karpinski>slideware. There are going to be <c.lt_90>some</c></v>

00:11:40.780 --> 00:11:42.460
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>opportunities to deliver these. It's</c></v>

00:11:42.460 --> 00:11:44.380
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>going to be the execution</c> and the ability</v>

00:11:44.540 --> 00:11:47.340
<v Rich Karpinski>to really serve enterprise customers as</v>

00:11:47.820 --> 00:11:50.688
<v Rich Karpinski>Raul started this conversation. in ways</v>

00:11:50.916 --> 00:11:52.664
<v Rich Karpinski>that they need to be served, that's going</v>

00:11:52.664 --> 00:11:54.032
<v Rich Karpinski>to tell the difference and see if there's</v>

00:11:54.032 --> 00:11:55.324
<v Rich Karpinski>an actual business here for the</v>

00:11:55.324 --> 00:11:55.780
<v Rich Karpinski>operators.</v>

00:11:56.500 --> 00:11:58.630
<v Eric Hanselman>We do get into this process of asking</v>

00:11:59.110 --> 00:12:00.870
<v Eric Hanselman>what's <c.lt_90>different this time? Because as</c></v>

00:12:00.950 --> 00:12:03.830
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>you've said,</c> this is a cycle that we get</v>

00:12:03.990 --> 00:12:06.470
<v Eric Hanselman>new technologies, we get interest and why</v>

00:12:06.630 --> 00:12:08.790
<v Eric Hanselman>is this going to be different. And maybe,</v>

00:12:08.790 --> 00:12:11.110
<v Eric Hanselman>in fact, some of the partnership pieces,</v>

00:12:11.510 --> 00:12:13.910
<v Eric Hanselman>what we see with some of the tech giants</v>

00:12:13.910 --> 00:12:15.510
<v Eric Hanselman>that are out there, the hyperscalers</v>

00:12:16.070 --> 00:12:19.270
<v Eric Hanselman>that, in fact, are maybe starting to work</v>

00:12:19.750 --> 00:12:22.390
<v Eric Hanselman>a little more in partnership with some of</v>

00:12:22.390 --> 00:12:24.310
<v Eric Hanselman>these capabilities. So this won't be</v>

00:12:24.390 --> 00:12:26.790
<v Eric Hanselman>something along the lines of over-the-top</v>

00:12:26.870 --> 00:12:28.550
<v Eric Hanselman>services that <c.lt_90>got offered</c> in the past.</v>

00:12:28.630 --> 00:12:30.870
<v Eric Hanselman>And that's <c.lt_90>the bigger</c> challenge, right?</v>

00:12:31.700 --> 00:12:33.482
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_80>Yes. I think less</c> <c.lt_90>-- hard lessons</c></v>

00:12:33.482 --> 00:12:35.122
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>learned,</c> right? They were certainly --</v>

00:12:35.696 --> 00:12:38.074
<v Rich Karpinski>operators, telcos were certainly -- did</v>

00:12:38.156 --> 00:12:41.026
<v Rich Karpinski>not win the OTT video game, but they do</v>

00:12:41.108 --> 00:12:42.502
<v Rich Karpinski>deliver infrastructure, local</v>

00:12:42.584 --> 00:12:44.634
<v Rich Karpinski>infrastructure, CDN <c.lt_90>infrastructure, other</c></v>

00:12:44.634 --> 00:12:46.850
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>infrastructure that's part of</c> the</v>

00:12:46.850 --> 00:12:49.010
<v Rich Karpinski>delivery <c.lt_90>system of</c> OTT, maybe <c.lt_90>that's not</c></v>

00:12:49.010 --> 00:12:50.770
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>-- you don't</c> get to buy Paramount when</v>

00:12:50.850 --> 00:12:53.170
<v Rich Karpinski>you are in that role, but you do get to</v>

00:12:53.250 --> 00:12:55.410
<v Rich Karpinski>maybe serve up some streams and capture</v>

00:12:55.570 --> 00:12:57.890
<v Rich Karpinski>some revenue. Again, you may -- telcos</v>

00:12:58.050 --> 00:12:59.730
<v Rich Karpinski>may <c.lt_90>not be</c> NVIDIA. <c.lt_90>They may not be</c></v>

00:12:59.810 --> 00:13:02.050
<v Rich Karpinski>unicorns, but there is real revenue to be</v>

00:13:02.130 --> 00:13:05.490
<v Rich Karpinski>captured. And the key areas, they are</v>

00:13:05.890 --> 00:13:07.730
<v Rich Karpinski>connectivity plus focused. So</v>

00:13:08.210 --> 00:13:11.170
<v Rich Karpinski>connectivity plus access to GPUs as a</v>

00:13:11.330 --> 00:13:13.570
<v Rich Karpinski>sovereign service, connectivity plus</v>

00:13:13.730 --> 00:13:15.890
<v Rich Karpinski>smart network APIs that can deliver the</v>

00:13:15.890 --> 00:13:17.810
<v Rich Karpinski>things that Raul was talking about as far</v>

00:13:17.810 --> 00:13:20.130
<v Rich Karpinski>as fraud or identity protection, those</v>

00:13:20.210 --> 00:13:22.530
<v Rich Karpinski>sorts of things. There are value-added</v>

00:13:22.530 --> 00:13:26.050
<v Rich Karpinski>services. And they have evolved enough, I</v>

00:13:26.130 --> 00:13:28.130
<v Rich Karpinski>believe, especially the larger operators</v>

00:13:28.210 --> 00:13:30.210
<v Rich Karpinski>that are globally focused to be</v>

00:13:30.450 --> 00:13:33.490
<v Rich Karpinski>legitimate peers to their unicorn AI</v>

00:13:33.570 --> 00:13:35.090
<v Rich Karpinski>partners and to be just part of that</v>

00:13:35.170 --> 00:13:37.090
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>ecosystem, right? Part of the check</c> <c.lt_80>boxes</c></v>

00:13:37.090 --> 00:13:38.530
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_80>of</c> <c.lt_90>who an enterprise you're going to</c></v>

00:13:38.530 --> 00:13:40.256
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>speak to</c> you just have to have a good</v>

00:13:40.335 --> 00:13:41.915
<v Rich Karpinski>story to tell. And if there are</v>

00:13:42.073 --> 00:13:44.127
<v Rich Karpinski>alternatives to you, you're going to have</v>

00:13:44.127 --> 00:13:46.102
<v Rich Karpinski>to strategize your way to have a</v>

00:13:46.102 --> 00:13:47.524
<v Rich Karpinski>competitive answer to that. There's</v>

00:13:47.524 --> 00:13:49.973
<v Rich Karpinski>nothing guaranteed for operators. But I</v>

00:13:50.052 --> 00:13:52.422
<v Rich Karpinski>do think did bear out that there are just</v>

00:13:52.501 --> 00:13:54.160
<v Rich Karpinski>some fundamental characteristics of the</v>

00:13:54.239 --> 00:13:56.372
<v Rich Karpinski>market such that there are billions of</v>

00:13:56.372 --> 00:13:58.347
<v Rich Karpinski>IoT devices that need to be connected,</v>

00:13:58.426 --> 00:13:59.927
<v Rich Karpinski>right? So that's going to be potentially</v>

00:14:00.085 --> 00:14:02.534
<v Rich Karpinski>a 5G connection that begins to bring data</v>

00:14:02.692 --> 00:14:04.746
<v Rich Karpinski>into your ecosystem. There's going to be</v>

00:14:04.825 --> 00:14:06.405
<v Rich Karpinski>some need for some local processing and</v>

00:14:06.642 --> 00:14:08.222
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>it may end up on the enterprise</c> side, but</v>

00:14:08.301 --> 00:14:10.197
<v Rich Karpinski>it may end up on your network or adjacent</v>

00:14:10.197 --> 00:14:11.777
<v Rich Karpinski>to your network or you may be able to</v>

00:14:12.093 --> 00:14:13.752
<v Rich Karpinski>orchestrate that data in those</v>

00:14:13.752 --> 00:14:16.043
<v Rich Karpinski>applications in a way that contributes to</v>

00:14:16.122 --> 00:14:17.386
<v Rich Karpinski>that enterprise's success or the</v>

00:14:17.386 --> 00:14:20.320
<v Rich Karpinski>ecosystem's viability. It's not win all,</v>

00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:21.840
<v Rich Karpinski>but <c.lt_90>it's to be part of</c> that ecosystem,</v>

00:14:21.920 --> 00:14:23.760
<v Rich Karpinski>that's the opportunity for telcos today.</v>

00:14:24.430 --> 00:14:25.802
<v Eric Hanselman>Well, and some of the unique services,</v>

00:14:26.048 --> 00:14:28.016
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>you're talking about anti-fraud and</c></v>

00:14:28.426 --> 00:14:30.886
<v Eric Hanselman>identity. I mean, Raul, this is something</v>

00:14:30.968 --> 00:14:34.002
<v Eric Hanselman>where if I think about where -- what this</v>

00:14:35.629 --> 00:14:38.078
<v Eric Hanselman>real effective delivery of these services</v>

00:14:38.236 --> 00:14:39.579
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>are really going to look like. You were</c></v>

00:14:39.737 --> 00:14:40.922
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>talking about some</c> of the ecosystem</v>

00:14:41.001 --> 00:14:42.344
<v Eric Hanselman>players who are actually starting to</v>

00:14:42.423 --> 00:14:44.319
<v Eric Hanselman>package some of these capabilities and</v>

00:14:44.477 --> 00:14:48.585
<v Eric Hanselman>provide them for the operators. Is that a</v>

00:14:48.585 --> 00:14:50.244
<v Eric Hanselman>long-term path? Is this something where</v>

00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:52.140
<v Eric Hanselman>those providers -- those partners <c.lt_90>are the</c></v>

00:14:52.140 --> 00:14:53.325
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>ones</c> that are actually starting to do</v>

00:14:53.483 --> 00:14:54.905
<v Eric Hanselman>some of the more innovative capabilities</v>

00:14:55.221 --> 00:14:56.880
<v Eric Hanselman>and they integrate with the operators.</v>

00:14:57.196 --> 00:14:59.487
<v Eric Hanselman>Where do you see that partnership going?</v>

00:14:59.487 --> 00:15:00.672
<v Eric Hanselman>And what does that look like?</v>

00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:04.451
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>Yes. So interestingly, I think that the</v>

00:15:04.613 --> 00:15:06.881
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>level of awareness with mobile network</v>

00:15:06.962 --> 00:15:11.093
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>operators in terms of their capacity to</v>

00:15:11.660 --> 00:15:14.495
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>play with more sophisticated offerings, I</v>

00:15:14.576 --> 00:15:17.573
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>think they definitely know that. And I</v>

00:15:17.735 --> 00:15:20.975
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>think it has -- it still is a source of</v>

00:15:21.056 --> 00:15:24.782
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>frustration for them. So I do think that</v>

00:15:25.592 --> 00:15:28.832
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>you are very accurately describing a very</v>

00:15:28.994 --> 00:15:31.181
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>viable option, which is partnerships.</v>

00:15:32.540 --> 00:15:35.260
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>both with emerging but also established</v>

00:15:35.660 --> 00:15:40.060
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>players. For example, the CPaaS vendors</v>

00:15:40.220 --> 00:15:43.260
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>have a role to play given 2 decades of</v>

00:15:43.580 --> 00:15:46.380
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>experience with developer-focused</v>

00:15:46.780 --> 00:15:52.220
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>solutions and then also emerging vendors,</v>

00:15:52.220 --> 00:15:56.140
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>and I talked to <c.lt_90>a couple</c> <c.lt_80>of them,</c> <c.lt_90>Shop,</c></v>

00:15:56.220 --> 00:15:59.340
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez> <c.lt_90>which</c> are still start-ups, but with a</v>

00:15:59.500 --> 00:16:02.540
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>really deep understanding of the security</v>

00:16:02.700 --> 00:16:06.140
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>problems and the need for anti-fraud</v>

00:16:06.460 --> 00:16:09.740
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez> <c.lt_90>solutions</c> that leverage network</v>

00:16:09.980 --> 00:16:12.780
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>capabilities. In other words, that can</v>

00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:16.780
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>deliver what is technically a superior</v>

00:16:17.100 --> 00:16:21.580
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>solution as to what just OTT can deliver.</v>

00:16:21.660 --> 00:16:25.260
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>And I do want to emphasize what Rich was</v>

00:16:25.340 --> 00:16:30.531
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>saying <c.lt_90>that so far, our OTT</c> has won the</v>

00:16:30.689 --> 00:16:33.533
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>battles across different areas. So we</v>

00:16:33.770 --> 00:16:36.219
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>still have to see how this plays out. But</v>

00:16:36.377 --> 00:16:38.905
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>yes, the opportunity is there, partner</v>

00:16:39.063 --> 00:16:40.722
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>with <c.lt_90>the</c> CPaaS vendors, with the</v>

00:16:40.801 --> 00:16:42.934
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>technology vendors, with the emerging</v>

00:16:43.013 --> 00:16:45.778
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>startups capabilities at the network</v>

00:16:45.857 --> 00:16:48.306
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>level that are really effective in</v>

00:16:48.385 --> 00:16:49.333
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez>addressing these problems.</v>

00:16:49.900 --> 00:16:51.575
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>You make</c> a really important point there,</v>

00:16:51.575 --> 00:16:53.762
<v Eric Hanselman>which is that there has to be application</v>

00:16:53.924 --> 00:16:56.678
<v Eric Hanselman>developer engagement in this as well. And</v>

00:16:56.840 --> 00:16:58.865
<v Eric Hanselman>that's a big piece that if you think</v>

00:16:58.865 --> 00:17:01.538
<v Eric Hanselman>about what that ecosystem is, we got to</v>

00:17:01.619 --> 00:17:03.806
<v Eric Hanselman>have somebody who's building the actual</v>

00:17:03.968 --> 00:17:06.317
<v Eric Hanselman>end use cases that are based on these</v>

00:17:06.398 --> 00:17:07.613
<v Eric Hanselman>services in order to make these</v>

00:17:07.694 --> 00:17:09.557
<v Eric Hanselman>particularly successful. And that's</v>

00:17:09.638 --> 00:17:11.825
<v Eric Hanselman>something we've seen in so many different</v>

00:17:11.825 --> 00:17:14.093
<v Eric Hanselman>angles in terms of where this fits.</v>

00:17:14.255 --> 00:17:15.875
<v Eric Hanselman>You've got to be sure -- <c.lt_90>you've got to</c> be</v>

00:17:15.875 --> 00:17:17.171
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>able to get to a point</c> at which you can</v>

00:17:17.171 --> 00:17:19.520
<v Eric Hanselman>engage vendors. You <c.lt_90>talked about CPaaS</c></v>

00:17:20.422 --> 00:17:22.002
<v Eric Hanselman>the call platforms and service</v>

00:17:22.081 --> 00:17:24.688
<v Eric Hanselman>capabilities in a lot of the voice</v>

00:17:24.925 --> 00:17:26.584
<v Eric Hanselman>interaction kinds of things. There are</v>

00:17:26.742 --> 00:17:28.796
<v Eric Hanselman>lots of application providers that</v>

00:17:29.033 --> 00:17:30.850
<v Eric Hanselman>consume those services that's made that</v>

00:17:30.929 --> 00:17:33.457
<v Eric Hanselman>area successful. It's an area where,</v>

00:17:33.536 --> 00:17:35.274
<v Eric Hanselman>Rich, we've talked about what's</v>

00:17:35.274 --> 00:17:38.197
<v Eric Hanselman>happening. You mentioned IoT. This is</v>

00:17:38.276 --> 00:17:40.488
<v Eric Hanselman>another area where there certainly are</v>

00:17:40.725 --> 00:17:43.016
<v Eric Hanselman>opportunities where the network could be</v>

00:17:43.253 --> 00:17:45.939
<v Eric Hanselman>more than just connectivity, but you also</v>

00:17:46.097 --> 00:17:48.230
<v Eric Hanselman>have to engage in the application</v>

00:17:48.388 --> 00:17:50.126
<v Eric Hanselman>providers who are actually going to</v>

00:17:50.126 --> 00:17:51.627
<v Eric Hanselman>consume services if they're going to be</v>

00:17:51.706 --> 00:17:54.708
<v Eric Hanselman>network-based. And IoT is an area which</v>

00:17:54.787 --> 00:17:56.525
<v Eric Hanselman>has evolved really rapidly as well.</v>

00:17:57.630 --> 00:17:59.770
<v Rich Karpinski>Yes. I think about Wednesday running</v>

00:17:59.853 --> 00:18:02.177
<v Rich Karpinski>around, I realized I hadn't not only held</v>

00:18:02.260 --> 00:18:03.837
<v Rich Karpinski>a phone in my hand, <c.lt_90>I hadn't</c> really</v>

00:18:04.086 --> 00:18:06.928
<v Rich Karpinski>looked at one all week. And so <c.lt_90>the extent</c></v>

00:18:06.928 --> 00:18:08.722
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>to</c> which it's not <c.lt_90>only</c> not a voice show,</v>

00:18:08.722 --> 00:18:10.828
<v Rich Karpinski>it's not even a smartphone show anymore,</v>

00:18:10.906 --> 00:18:12.388
<v Rich Karpinski>at least from <c.lt_90>my point of</c> view, right?</v>

00:18:12.544 --> 00:18:15.118
<v Rich Karpinski>That's <c.lt_90>my level of</c> interest. Obviously,</v>

00:18:15.118 --> 00:18:16.522
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>there are</c> folks looking at the latest</v>

00:18:16.522 --> 00:18:17.848
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>devices, consumer devices.</c></v>

00:18:18.550 --> 00:18:20.760
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_80>There were no shortage of devices.</c> <c.lt_50>never.</c></v>

00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:22.360
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_70>The number of robots that</c> <c.lt_80>were on the</c></v>

00:18:24.120 --> 00:18:27.000
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_80>waving phones around.</c> <c.lt_90>though this year, I</c></v>

00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:31.640
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>did only see one Formula 1 car.</c> <c.lt_50>no</c></v>

00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:32.680
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_60>shortage of robots.</c></v>

00:18:33.430 --> 00:18:34.943
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>Definitely, robots</c> <c.lt_80>are more in my world.</c></v>

00:18:34.943 --> 00:18:36.401
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_80>But if you notice the</c> <c.lt_90>robots were all</c></v>

00:18:36.563 --> 00:18:38.588
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>escorted</c> by 3 or 4 people. So maybe</v>

00:18:38.669 --> 00:18:39.884
<v Rich Karpinski>they're not so intelligent to act</v>

00:18:40.046 --> 00:18:41.585
<v Rich Karpinski>autonomously. They're not going to take</v>

00:18:41.666 --> 00:18:43.205
<v Rich Karpinski>over the world quite yet without some</v>

00:18:43.367 --> 00:18:45.392
<v Rich Karpinski>human handlers. But yes, I mean, from an</v>

00:18:45.473 --> 00:18:47.498
<v Rich Karpinski>IoT perspective, and that's a lot where</v>

00:18:47.660 --> 00:18:49.442
<v Rich Karpinski>my practice starts is really what we've</v>

00:18:49.442 --> 00:18:51.629
<v Rich Karpinski>learned is far from where it ends, <c.lt_90>right?</c></v>

00:18:51.710 --> 00:18:54.740
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>It's the data and at those endpoints</c> that</v>

00:18:54.820 --> 00:18:57.220
<v Rich Karpinski>drives, which is one of the new buzzwords</v>

00:18:57.300 --> 00:19:00.020
<v Rich Karpinski>these days, physical AI. So as compared</v>

00:19:00.100 --> 00:19:02.420
<v Rich Karpinski>to digital AI, which is large frontier</v>

00:19:02.500 --> 00:19:03.780
<v Rich Karpinski>models and text-based and</v>

00:19:03.860 --> 00:19:06.340
<v Rich Karpinski>information-based, physical AI being all</v>

00:19:06.420 --> 00:19:08.580
<v Rich Karpinski>of these industrial and more physical</v>

00:19:08.740 --> 00:19:10.420
<v Rich Karpinski>processes and environments and all the</v>

00:19:10.500 --> 00:19:12.020
<v Rich Karpinski>data that comes off of those environments</v>

00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:14.100
<v Rich Karpinski>that then can be analyzed with these AI</v>

00:19:14.260 --> 00:19:16.180
<v Rich Karpinski>platforms and turn into insights that</v>

00:19:16.260 --> 00:19:18.900
<v Rich Karpinski>drive decision-makers among oil and gas</v>

00:19:18.980 --> 00:19:21.060
<v Rich Karpinski>processors or manufacturers or supply</v>

00:19:21.140 --> 00:19:23.220
<v Rich Karpinski>chain folks, right? So all of that data</v>

00:19:23.620 --> 00:19:25.300
<v Rich Karpinski>is sitting there ready to be harvested,</v>

00:19:25.300 --> 00:19:26.980
<v Rich Karpinski>and that's where IoT has come in. And</v>

00:19:27.060 --> 00:19:30.660
<v Rich Karpinski>it's been a challenging market. So if you</v>

00:19:30.740 --> 00:19:32.260
<v Rich Karpinski>want to look at a market with revenue</v>

00:19:32.340 --> 00:19:35.300
<v Rich Karpinski>attached, the IoT connectivity market is</v>

00:19:35.620 --> 00:19:37.620
<v Rich Karpinski>very low ARPU has always been very low</v>

00:19:37.700 --> 00:19:40.500
<v Rich Karpinski>ARPU. The IoT platform market really</v>

00:19:40.580 --> 00:19:42.980
<v Rich Karpinski>turned out after a flashy start to really</v>

00:19:43.060 --> 00:19:45.620
<v Rich Karpinski>be about plumbing, data networking, data</v>

00:19:45.860 --> 00:19:48.180
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>aggregation, data basic, transforming</c></v>

00:19:48.420 --> 00:19:50.710
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>plumbing</c> -- so there's not a lot of</v>

00:19:50.710 --> 00:19:52.310
<v Rich Karpinski>revenue there. And so what's always been</v>

00:19:52.390 --> 00:19:54.150
<v Rich Karpinski>the case is, as we've all talked about</v>

00:19:54.310 --> 00:19:55.910
<v Rich Karpinski>through all of this is getting up the</v>

00:19:55.910 --> 00:19:58.230
<v Rich Karpinski>stack, sitting at the application or the</v>

00:19:58.390 --> 00:20:00.550
<v Rich Karpinski>platform or the application level, even</v>

00:20:00.710 --> 00:20:02.230
<v Rich Karpinski>beyond that, delivering some sort of</v>

00:20:02.390 --> 00:20:04.870
<v Rich Karpinski>outcome to an enterprise that you can</v>

00:20:05.030 --> 00:20:08.790
<v Rich Karpinski>monetize. And so at the show, there are</v>

00:20:08.950 --> 00:20:12.310
<v Rich Karpinski>some very strong <c.lt_90>IoT</c> eSIM <c.lt_90>standards that</c></v>

00:20:12.630 --> 00:20:14.230
<v Rich Karpinski>work that's happening and starting to be</v>

00:20:14.230 --> 00:20:16.310
<v Rich Karpinski>globalized that's going to let companies</v>

00:20:16.790 --> 00:20:19.590
<v Rich Karpinski>more effectively manage very large fleets</v>

00:20:19.670 --> 00:20:21.830
<v Rich Karpinski>of IoT devices with some assurance they</v>

00:20:21.910 --> 00:20:23.670
<v Rich Karpinski>can do it over the long term. And in</v>

00:20:23.670 --> 00:20:25.190
<v Rich Karpinski>these industrial environments, when they</v>

00:20:25.270 --> 00:20:27.430
<v Rich Karpinski>put something into their operations, they</v>

00:20:27.590 --> 00:20:29.270
<v Rich Karpinski>want it to last for decades and not be</v>

00:20:29.350 --> 00:20:31.190
<v Rich Karpinski>touched. And so some of these standards</v>

00:20:31.270 --> 00:20:33.350
<v Rich Karpinski>are helping with that. And once you get</v>

00:20:33.430 --> 00:20:35.430
<v Rich Karpinski>more fleets of devices, larger fleets of</v>

00:20:35.430 --> 00:20:37.270
<v Rich Karpinski>devices connected, you can pull in more</v>

00:20:37.350 --> 00:20:40.150
<v Rich Karpinski>data, right? <c.lt_90>Then that IoT plumbing</c> takes</v>

00:20:40.150 --> 00:20:42.330
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>effect. And what</c> you're <c.lt_90>then doing</c> is</v>

00:20:42.410 --> 00:20:44.090
<v Rich Karpinski>you're passing it off in a <c.lt_90>multi-tier</c></v>

00:20:44.250 --> 00:20:45.850
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_90>structure and architecture and</c> you're</v>

00:20:45.930 --> 00:20:47.930
<v Rich Karpinski>handing it off to those AI platforms that</v>

00:20:48.090 --> 00:20:50.170
<v Rich Karpinski>can or cannot sit within the telco</v>

00:20:50.330 --> 00:20:53.130
<v Rich Karpinski>network, probably adjacent, and you can</v>

00:20:53.210 --> 00:20:54.650
<v Rich Karpinski>do all of that analysis and</v>

00:20:54.730 --> 00:20:56.650
<v Rich Karpinski>decision-making and then you begin to</v>

00:20:56.730 --> 00:20:58.250
<v Rich Karpinski>become part of some really important</v>

00:20:58.410 --> 00:21:01.050
<v Rich Karpinski>outcome solutions. And once you do that,</v>

00:21:01.130 --> 00:21:03.130
<v Rich Karpinski>you generate more data, you begin</v>

00:21:03.290 --> 00:21:05.770
<v Rich Karpinski>harvesting more data and those low ARPUs</v>

00:21:06.010 --> 00:21:08.330
<v Rich Karpinski>start winning because of pure volume and</v>

00:21:08.410 --> 00:21:10.090
<v Rich Karpinski>maybe you can attach some service</v>

00:21:10.170 --> 00:21:11.930
<v Rich Karpinski>revenue. Maybe it's a security service</v>

00:21:12.010 --> 00:21:14.010
<v Rich Karpinski>around all of those IoT endpoints or a</v>

00:21:14.090 --> 00:21:15.850
<v Rich Karpinski>management interface or something that</v>

00:21:15.930 --> 00:21:17.770
<v Rich Karpinski>you can start charging for that's just</v>

00:21:17.850 --> 00:21:19.770
<v Rich Karpinski>not the <c.lt_90>point-to-point</c> connection, <c.lt_90>but is</c></v>

00:21:19.930 --> 00:21:22.410
<v Rich Karpinski>added <c.lt_90>value on</c> top of all that. So again,</v>

00:21:22.410 --> 00:21:24.970
<v Rich Karpinski>that's a path for them as telcos to make</v>

00:21:25.610 --> 00:21:27.850
<v Rich Karpinski>some incremental scaled income, which is</v>

00:21:27.930 --> 00:21:30.490
<v Rich Karpinski>what telcos are good at and to be part of</v>

00:21:30.650 --> 00:21:33.050
<v Rich Karpinski>that outcome value chain, which is where</v>

00:21:33.130 --> 00:21:34.730
<v Rich Karpinski>they've been striving to reach all the</v>

00:21:34.730 --> 00:21:36.410
<v Rich Karpinski>time. So I think there was some good news</v>

00:21:36.490 --> 00:21:38.250
<v Rich Karpinski>at Mobile World Congress around</v>

00:21:38.330 --> 00:21:38.890
<v Rich Karpinski>developments there.</v>

00:21:39.740 --> 00:21:41.886
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>It's all that challenge</c> <c.lt_80>of</c> <c.lt_90>ensuring that</c></v>

00:21:42.120 --> 00:21:44.226
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>we</c> <c.lt_80>get beyond Raul,</c> <c.lt_70>the point that</c> <c.lt_80>you</c></v>

00:21:44.382 --> 00:21:45.942
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_70>raised</c> <c.lt_80>is how do they get beyond being</c></v>

00:21:45.942 --> 00:21:48.048
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>the purveyors</c> <c.lt_80>of the</c> <c.lt_90>dumb</c> <c.lt_80>fight,</c> <c.lt_90>not just</c></v>

00:21:48.048 --> 00:21:49.686
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>connectivity,</c> <c.lt_80>but the services</c> <c.lt_90>on top of</c></v>

00:21:49.686 --> 00:21:52.480
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>it. Well, there's a lot to see whether or</c></v>

00:21:52.560 --> 00:21:54.160
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>not they can actually fire on all of</c></v>

00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:55.760
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>this, but certainly a lot of great</c></v>

00:21:55.840 --> 00:21:57.840
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>perspectives from</c> the conference <c.lt_90>itself.</c></v>

00:21:58.160 --> 00:21:59.600
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>Thank you both for all the insights.</c></v>

00:22:00.270 --> 00:22:02.298
<v Rich Karpinski> <c.lt_60>Thanks, Eric.</c> Thanks for having us.</v>

00:22:02.190 --> 00:22:02.782
<v Raul Castañon-Martinez> <c.lt_70>Thank you.</c></v>

00:22:03.150 --> 00:22:04.278
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_90>And that is it</c> <c.lt_80>for this episode of</c> Next</v>

00:22:04.298 --> 00:22:06.769
<v Eric Hanselman>in Tech. <c.lt_80>Thanks</c> <c.lt_70>to</c> <c.lt_80>our audience for</c></v>

00:22:06.850 --> 00:22:08.065
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_80>staying with us, and thanks to our</c></v>

00:22:08.065 --> 00:22:09.197
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_80>production team,</c> <c.lt_70>including Sophie</c> Carr,</v>

00:22:09.237 --> 00:22:11.081
<v Eric Hanselman>Feranmi Adeoshun, and Kyra smith on our</v>

00:22:11.101 --> 00:22:14.059
<v Eric Hanselman>marketing and <c.lt_60>events</c> teams. <c.lt_60>If you</c> <c.lt_70>like</c></v>

00:22:14.140 --> 00:22:16.165
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_70>this episode, please subscribe or like</c></v>

00:22:16.327 --> 00:22:18.537
<v Eric Hanselman> <c.lt_60>us. I</c> hope you will join us for our next</v>

00:22:18.578 --> 00:22:20.322
<v Eric Hanselman>episode, because there is always</v>

00:22:20.382 --> 00:22:21.883
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