1 00:00:01,770 --> 00:00:06,120 You're listening to episode 763 of A VerySpatial Podcast.. June 22nd, 2025, 2 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:13,800 run 3 00:00:21,395 --> 00:00:21,885 Unknown. 4 00:00:22,295 --> 00:00:24,540 Hello and A VerySpatial Podcast.. I'm Jesse. 5 00:00:25,050 --> 00:00:25,530 I'm Sue. 6 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:27,180 I'm Barb, 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:27,845 and this is Frank. 8 00:00:28,785 --> 00:00:32,195 And this week we're gonna be talking to Zach Jaffe of Map I.T.. But 9 00:00:32,195 --> 00:00:34,415 first of course, we have some news. 10 00:00:34,775 --> 00:00:38,040 First up there were a couple of executive orders that came outta the United 11 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:43,235 States white House that are focused on small unmanned aerial systems and just 12 00:00:43,235 --> 00:00:44,645 unmanned aerial systems in general. 13 00:00:45,395 --> 00:00:52,165 One of them is focused on security of the airspace and making sure that drones are 14 00:00:52,165 --> 00:00:53,755 incorporated into that a little bit more. 15 00:00:53,845 --> 00:00:55,315 Don't really go into details. 16 00:00:55,690 --> 00:00:56,590 'cause there's lots of them. 17 00:00:56,590 --> 00:01:00,500 But perhaps the more important one was one that was already on the table but 18 00:01:01,070 --> 00:01:06,620 is now getting fast track significantly is dates have been assigned for the 19 00:01:06,620 --> 00:01:11,240 progression of beyond visual line of sight operations in the United States. 20 00:01:11,870 --> 00:01:16,710 And that of course is one that's, that, depending on how this goes, could, create 21 00:01:16,710 --> 00:01:20,220 a much broader set of aerial issues. 22 00:01:20,270 --> 00:01:23,690 And it's one, you know, the FAA, I think has been pushing back so that 23 00:01:23,690 --> 00:01:27,130 they didn't have to deal with it right away because the technologies aren't 24 00:01:27,130 --> 00:01:33,550 exactly there yet to, to be able to deal with finding and seeing drones. 25 00:01:34,029 --> 00:01:38,719 There's things that are there, but it's not tied into the, air system yet. 26 00:01:39,139 --> 00:01:42,589 And it's worth noting that beyond line of sight, it, it exists now, 27 00:01:42,859 --> 00:01:45,019 you know, you can do it, you just have to get an exception for it, 28 00:01:45,019 --> 00:01:47,329 which means you can file paperwork and people know and things like that. 29 00:01:47,329 --> 00:01:49,999 And the companies went, that's way too much bureaucracy, too much of 30 00:01:49,999 --> 00:01:54,139 a ha hassle, can we, you know, just do this without having to get an 31 00:01:54,139 --> 00:01:56,029 exception to do beyond line of sight. 32 00:01:56,479 --> 00:01:59,119 And now the FA a's gonna have to do that, which like Jesse 33 00:01:59,119 --> 00:02:00,379 said, that's gonna require. 34 00:02:00,784 --> 00:02:06,244 Technology's embedded within the drone and also also within aerial platforms of 35 00:02:06,244 --> 00:02:09,394 all sorts, including planes to say, Hey, everybody knows where everybody's at. 36 00:02:09,544 --> 00:02:16,574 So that one I think is the one that's a little bit more day-to-day impact 37 00:02:17,024 --> 00:02:18,704 compared to the other executive order. 38 00:02:19,224 --> 00:02:20,814 We'll see how either of them goes. 39 00:02:21,719 --> 00:02:23,879 And if you're interested in either, there's a link of course in the show note, 40 00:02:23,969 --> 00:02:28,649 and of course you can find the executive orders themselves and probably the fa 41 00:02:28,649 --> 00:02:33,209 a's responses to how they're gonna make these things happen somewhere online. 42 00:02:33,749 --> 00:02:37,709 And, and just like Jesse said to start with, they do address 43 00:02:37,709 --> 00:02:40,409 the security question of DJI within the executive order. 44 00:02:40,439 --> 00:02:44,139 So look at that stuff 'cause it's a lot more what's the word I'm looking for? 45 00:02:44,139 --> 00:02:45,099 Detailed, finicky. 46 00:02:45,834 --> 00:02:46,404 Convoluted, 47 00:02:46,464 --> 00:02:47,184 lots of those words. 48 00:02:47,544 --> 00:02:47,844 Yeah. 49 00:02:48,264 --> 00:02:52,584 And Map I.T., of course responded with, but we are not a Chinese Yes. 50 00:02:53,314 --> 00:02:53,644 Front. 51 00:02:53,644 --> 00:02:55,544 So well, I don't know. 52 00:02:55,724 --> 00:02:56,414 We'll see how it goes. 53 00:02:56,414 --> 00:03:01,384 And of course we always talk about Map I.T., but most of these also generally 54 00:03:01,384 --> 00:03:05,524 reference Chinese built UAVs in general. 55 00:03:06,244 --> 00:03:10,114 So keep that in mind as well, even though most of these things talk specifically 56 00:03:10,114 --> 00:03:13,114 about if it ever becomes true legislation. 57 00:03:13,504 --> 00:03:14,884 It won't just be TJI. 58 00:03:15,664 --> 00:03:15,904 Is there 59 00:03:15,904 --> 00:03:21,334 any non-Chinese made, I'm gonna say prosumer for lack of a 60 00:03:21,334 --> 00:03:23,974 better term, drone out there? 61 00:03:23,974 --> 00:03:24,424 I can't. 62 00:03:24,454 --> 00:03:25,294 There's a couple in 63 00:03:25,294 --> 00:03:27,744 the us and of course, now that I'm thinking about it, I can't 64 00:03:27,744 --> 00:03:32,549 think of any of the names, but yeah, there are, there are some. 65 00:03:32,829 --> 00:03:39,989 And there's the amusing one that is basically DJI hardware that's being made. 66 00:03:40,904 --> 00:03:44,594 Quote unquote buy us company manufactured in Vietnam. 67 00:03:44,594 --> 00:03:49,394 I think just so it gets around the, the Chinese thing, but it's still, I mean, 68 00:03:49,454 --> 00:03:54,144 the hardware is identical to A DJI, Mavic, whichever one it was three I think. 69 00:03:54,804 --> 00:03:55,164 So yeah. 70 00:03:55,524 --> 00:03:59,154 Next up the news Google has released a bunch of new updates for Google Maps, 71 00:03:59,154 --> 00:04:03,784 which is, you know we've covered this so much Google updates to maps that 72 00:04:04,084 --> 00:04:07,864 understand this happens frequently, but this is kind of a cool update. 73 00:04:07,864 --> 00:04:10,754 It's around helping you travel more sustainably. 74 00:04:10,754 --> 00:04:13,799 Right now it's in Europe, almost, I think exclusively it's in Europe. 75 00:04:14,124 --> 00:04:14,214 But. 76 00:04:15,129 --> 00:04:18,339 It's got a lot of neat features in there to help you figure out how to drive or 77 00:04:18,339 --> 00:04:22,629 how to bike better or how to, you know, what, what things that you can do to 78 00:04:22,629 --> 00:04:25,209 save on gas petrol in the European term. 79 00:04:25,369 --> 00:04:28,339 What you can do to help reduce your emissions when you can be doing 80 00:04:28,339 --> 00:04:31,259 things into so when you're traveling the low emission zones, you can do 81 00:04:31,259 --> 00:04:33,299 things to, you know, help with that. 82 00:04:33,299 --> 00:04:37,259 And of course, congestion, which is a huge problem in every city, everywhere 83 00:04:37,509 --> 00:04:39,759 helped how, how to travel your plans. 84 00:04:40,039 --> 00:04:45,329 Travel, how to plan your travel so that you help reduce congestion and the 85 00:04:45,329 --> 00:04:48,389 associated environmental costs thereof. 86 00:04:49,519 --> 00:04:53,209 This is another Google update that for some reason in my mind, 87 00:04:53,209 --> 00:04:54,619 I thought they already had. 88 00:04:55,159 --> 00:05:00,919 And it's a really good one if you're planning a trip and planning to do a, a 89 00:05:00,919 --> 00:05:03,319 cycle route through any of the cities. 90 00:05:03,689 --> 00:05:06,779 So you can avoid heavy car traffic or know when you're gonna 91 00:05:06,779 --> 00:05:08,279 come up on some steep hills. 92 00:05:09,644 --> 00:05:11,639 You know, Barb, I have to say I'm with you on that one. 93 00:05:11,639 --> 00:05:14,389 'cause I, when I saw it originally I thought, yeah, I thought you 94 00:05:14,389 --> 00:05:15,469 could get some of the stuff up. 95 00:05:15,619 --> 00:05:17,179 I must have gotten it somewhere else or 96 00:05:17,359 --> 00:05:18,379 actually could get some of the stuff. 97 00:05:18,379 --> 00:05:18,529 But 98 00:05:18,529 --> 00:05:20,059 now they've integrated, is that what it is? 99 00:05:20,089 --> 00:05:20,509 Yeah. 100 00:05:21,979 --> 00:05:22,909 So, but good. 101 00:05:22,909 --> 00:05:23,839 It hopefully rolls out. 102 00:05:23,949 --> 00:05:24,459 Everywhere. 103 00:05:24,999 --> 00:05:27,189 I think the big thing that brought it all together is that they're 104 00:05:27,189 --> 00:05:31,359 using AI now to help you with that planning and the routing and 105 00:05:31,359 --> 00:05:32,469 all that sort of stuff like that. 106 00:05:32,769 --> 00:05:36,579 Taking these things into consideration within the ai, which is simultaneously 107 00:05:36,579 --> 00:05:41,109 really cool and frightening at the same time because anyway, 108 00:05:41,769 --> 00:05:46,289 and finally in the news, a new launch this past week for the Sony PlayStation, right? 109 00:05:46,289 --> 00:05:49,779 We don't often talk about gaming consoles but this launch is for an 110 00:05:49,779 --> 00:05:54,319 interactive platform free, free to download if you have Sony PlayStation 111 00:05:54,379 --> 00:05:56,219 five it's called Climate Station. 112 00:05:56,219 --> 00:06:00,529 So it's an interactive you know, kind of a immersive visualization of climate 113 00:06:00,529 --> 00:06:04,799 data and, one of the features is sort of looking at a year into climate. 114 00:06:04,799 --> 00:06:08,999 So it utilizes a lot of remote sensing and all kinds of stuff, but it's just 115 00:06:09,239 --> 00:06:15,049 again, cool to see these types of resources come out to highlight issues 116 00:06:15,139 --> 00:06:19,129 and, you know, in, in our area that we're familiar with, but for a broader audience. 117 00:06:19,129 --> 00:06:20,939 So I've actually tried it out. 118 00:06:21,034 --> 00:06:24,024 It's made with a common tool unity that we've talked about 119 00:06:24,024 --> 00:06:25,794 on this, on the podcast before. 120 00:06:26,074 --> 00:06:29,254 And supposedly, although I've not tried this yet, you can also 121 00:06:29,284 --> 00:06:30,904 use it on the PlayStation VR too. 122 00:06:30,904 --> 00:06:34,924 So a limited audience limited by the hardware and technology. 123 00:06:35,234 --> 00:06:39,794 But really great to see this tool come out and get added to the, 124 00:06:39,854 --> 00:06:42,674 the ways that we can visualize climate and share that knowledge. 125 00:06:42,724 --> 00:06:43,354 With others. 126 00:06:44,944 --> 00:06:46,474 It's one of those things where. 127 00:06:46,959 --> 00:06:51,219 It, it will probably come to Oculus and desktop and those type of things 128 00:06:51,219 --> 00:06:54,579 as well, because it, it is a two does have a traditional 2D screen based 129 00:06:54,859 --> 00:06:56,359 as well as the potential for vr. 130 00:06:56,699 --> 00:07:00,959 But it's weird because it's, it uses levels. 131 00:07:01,259 --> 00:07:05,709 So you have to progress through a series of content before 132 00:07:05,709 --> 00:07:06,939 you can begin to explore. 133 00:07:07,884 --> 00:07:08,574 Content. 134 00:07:08,664 --> 00:07:11,524 I think they set it up kind of like a tutorial in kind of 135 00:07:11,524 --> 00:07:12,424 way, which you can do well. 136 00:07:12,484 --> 00:07:15,154 But again, that's a very levels based approach to it. 137 00:07:15,159 --> 00:07:18,854 It's, it's, so, it's just kind of interesting to have a levels based 138 00:07:18,854 --> 00:07:20,804 approach to scientific communication. 139 00:07:21,464 --> 00:07:26,124 It, it feels like maybe teachers made this first, you have to pass this 140 00:07:26,124 --> 00:07:28,079 class before you can take that class. 141 00:07:28,629 --> 00:07:28,919 Yeah. 142 00:07:28,919 --> 00:07:29,199 Yeah. 143 00:07:30,009 --> 00:07:33,459 I mean, one of the cool things about it is the, the visualizations are really nice. 144 00:07:33,459 --> 00:07:36,879 But you know, I can imagine, like when I teach a class on this and using Unity, 145 00:07:36,879 --> 00:07:38,319 I ask the students come up with a topic. 146 00:07:38,599 --> 00:07:42,799 This is, this is something that topic-wise, I could see even my classes 147 00:07:42,799 --> 00:07:45,799 go, Hey, let's make something that helps spread, you know, information 148 00:07:45,829 --> 00:07:47,419 about what's going on with climate. 149 00:07:47,419 --> 00:07:47,809 So. 150 00:07:48,214 --> 00:07:52,084 They, the makers of it do hope that we know will be a learning tool. 151 00:07:52,084 --> 00:07:55,654 So again, right now, a limited release to a, just the PlayStation 152 00:07:55,654 --> 00:07:56,944 store and PlayStation five. 153 00:07:56,944 --> 00:08:00,074 But I think that it's something that more broadly with being created 154 00:08:00,074 --> 00:08:03,584 with something like Unity, there, there is the cross platform ability. 155 00:08:03,584 --> 00:08:07,534 So but yeah, the the partnership that created, it included the Department 156 00:08:07,534 --> 00:08:11,224 of Meteorology at the University of Reading in the uk, Berkeley Earth, and 157 00:08:11,224 --> 00:08:12,994 the playing for the Planet Alliance. 158 00:08:13,634 --> 00:08:14,924 So I don't know. 159 00:08:14,924 --> 00:08:15,944 I thought it was really cool. 160 00:08:16,004 --> 00:08:18,224 Again, available for free and tried it out. 161 00:08:18,224 --> 00:08:19,344 So as long 162 00:08:19,344 --> 00:08:20,964 as you have a PlayStation, you say, yeah. 163 00:08:21,144 --> 00:08:23,094 Available for the cost of one PlayStation. 164 00:08:23,099 --> 00:08:23,369 Yeah. 165 00:08:23,964 --> 00:08:24,234 Yeah. 166 00:08:24,234 --> 00:08:25,284 So that's interesting. 167 00:08:25,284 --> 00:08:29,374 First because although I've made quite a bit of, of quite a bit of applications 168 00:08:29,374 --> 00:08:34,554 with Unity I've never seen actually their, their interface for, or how 169 00:08:34,554 --> 00:08:36,684 they do stuff for the PlayStation. 170 00:08:36,714 --> 00:08:37,164 So. 171 00:08:38,439 --> 00:08:41,079 But hey, I get, you have to have developer licenses, all that kinda stuff. 172 00:08:41,079 --> 00:08:43,089 So I didn't have access to those things. 173 00:08:43,089 --> 00:08:43,989 So anyway, 174 00:08:48,669 --> 00:08:52,839 a scientist, I believe at Carnegie Mellon University, that's where the. 175 00:08:53,469 --> 00:08:58,749 Article originated from, has created a interactive map and it is a science 176 00:08:58,749 --> 00:09:02,979 communication tool to encourage scientists to do a science homecoming. 177 00:09:02,979 --> 00:09:07,239 That is to go to their local papers, their hometown papers, wherever 178 00:09:07,299 --> 00:09:11,299 they're from and to educate the people there on a local level, a 179 00:09:11,299 --> 00:09:13,939 local scale about what it is they do. 180 00:09:14,189 --> 00:09:15,930 And they're calling the interactive. 181 00:09:16,004 --> 00:09:18,134 Project, the Science Homecoming. 182 00:09:18,464 --> 00:09:22,424 And I thought it was a really interesting idea because it basically brings the 183 00:09:22,424 --> 00:09:25,544 idea of science communication and talking local, but gives you a tool 184 00:09:25,544 --> 00:09:29,084 now that you can use to make it a little bit more efficient to reach 185 00:09:29,084 --> 00:09:31,034 out to these small local papers. 186 00:09:31,314 --> 00:09:35,884 This is something that we got emails as a a g members two, three months 187 00:09:35,884 --> 00:09:37,634 ago to kind of push this as well. 188 00:09:37,634 --> 00:09:40,814 So it's been making, its its rounds. 189 00:09:41,139 --> 00:09:44,010 For a few months now, and it, you know. 190 00:09:45,005 --> 00:09:50,055 Is a response to all of the cuts that have been happening in all the federal 191 00:09:50,055 --> 00:09:51,675 cuts in the United States especially. 192 00:09:52,195 --> 00:09:56,185 But, you know, just general trends that we have going on now that there's 193 00:09:56,185 --> 00:10:01,165 a lot more misinformation about not just details, but also about what we 194 00:10:01,165 --> 00:10:06,055 do as academics or professionals or whatever you wanna define yourself as. 195 00:10:06,435 --> 00:10:09,675 You know, those mis misunderstandings are, are growing. 196 00:10:09,675 --> 00:10:12,045 So it's kind of a way of. 197 00:10:12,765 --> 00:10:15,675 Trying to get our voices out there ourselves as opposed to waiting 198 00:10:15,675 --> 00:10:18,945 for somebody to come and, and ask to do an article about us. 199 00:10:18,945 --> 00:10:19,305 I think, 200 00:10:20,175 --> 00:10:24,735 and what's interesting about it is some of the examples talk about how a lot 201 00:10:24,735 --> 00:10:28,215 of scientists and researchers, their work comes from what they experienced 202 00:10:28,305 --> 00:10:29,955 growing up in their hometowns. 203 00:10:30,235 --> 00:10:33,055 So it makes sense to, to bring what you've done. 204 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,730 Back to the place that influenced you in the research that you're doing. 205 00:10:42,610 --> 00:10:47,110 So we're happy to be joined today by Zach Jaffe, who is the founder and CEO 206 00:10:47,110 --> 00:10:49,510 of Map I.T.. Thanks for joining us today. 207 00:10:49,780 --> 00:10:50,650 Thank you for having me. 208 00:10:50,890 --> 00:10:53,740 It was nice to meet you at the North Carolina GIS conference. 209 00:10:53,740 --> 00:10:57,340 Unfortunately, we didn't have time to sit down then, but today I just wanted to. 210 00:10:57,835 --> 00:11:01,225 Kind of go through those same type of questions and starting with, tell 211 00:11:01,225 --> 00:11:05,265 us a little bit about Map I.T. and where you're located and what you do. 212 00:11:05,625 --> 00:11:06,315 Yeah, absolutely. 213 00:11:06,315 --> 00:11:10,375 So Map I.T.. We are based in Charleston, South Carolina but we work all over 214 00:11:10,375 --> 00:11:13,735 the country and they've actually had a couple projects overseas as well. 215 00:11:13,955 --> 00:11:18,785 So we are really a geospatial consulting firm focused on infrastructure mapping. 216 00:11:19,095 --> 00:11:21,735 We also are a licensed, licensed land surveyor. 217 00:11:21,735 --> 00:11:26,385 So we do that side of the geospatial world as well, you know, and that's 218 00:11:26,385 --> 00:11:28,515 just the more traditional, Hey, I'm building a pro, you know, building 219 00:11:28,515 --> 00:11:29,835 a fence, where's my property line? 220 00:11:29,995 --> 00:11:31,825 Or we're adding an addition to the house. 221 00:11:31,875 --> 00:11:33,645 You know, we need a tree tobo survey. 222 00:11:33,795 --> 00:11:35,235 So that's one side of the business. 223 00:11:35,235 --> 00:11:37,675 And the other side you know, the more kind of. 224 00:11:38,065 --> 00:11:41,485 Newer age Geospatial Consulting is the infrastructure mapping. 225 00:11:41,785 --> 00:11:45,595 Well, we're where we will do everything from going out and collecting data 226 00:11:45,595 --> 00:11:51,185 through, you know, reality capture, lidar, laser scanning we do CAD drawings 227 00:11:51,185 --> 00:11:56,575 or 3D BIM modeling and really take that all the way through to GIS deliverables. 228 00:11:56,700 --> 00:12:00,830 A lot of our focus has been on interior mapping or indoor 229 00:12:00,830 --> 00:12:02,570 mapping, a relatively new. 230 00:12:02,885 --> 00:12:04,625 New term in the GIS world. 231 00:12:04,905 --> 00:12:08,985 And really the focus on that has been in the K through 12 school district 232 00:12:08,985 --> 00:12:11,715 space, higher education campuses. 233 00:12:11,815 --> 00:12:14,815 And we're out, we're working on a couple museum projects as well. 234 00:12:15,215 --> 00:12:16,985 So that's really been our focus. 235 00:12:16,985 --> 00:12:19,805 I. And you know, we've seen a lot of success in it the past two years and 236 00:12:19,805 --> 00:12:24,775 we are really continuing to see it grow or the, those types of services needed 237 00:12:24,955 --> 00:12:25,375 really. 238 00:12:25,585 --> 00:12:29,105 And you kind of touch on three different areas in just 239 00:12:29,105 --> 00:12:30,425 that, that quick introduction. 240 00:12:30,825 --> 00:12:36,555 One being the traditional 2D list, make a map of something or a CAD drawing of 241 00:12:36,555 --> 00:12:44,745 something moving into the 3D with some of the creation of models to support. 242 00:12:45,270 --> 00:12:49,260 That 2D but also then getting into the reality capture where 243 00:12:49,260 --> 00:12:53,890 you're then moving into point clouds and exactly all that means. 244 00:12:53,890 --> 00:12:56,530 So a lot of different things to, to touch on there. 245 00:12:56,530 --> 00:13:02,190 So whenever you are looking at a project, I think to completely go off. 246 00:13:02,850 --> 00:13:07,030 The topics that I, I had discussed with you before how do you begin 247 00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:10,990 to think about, okay, this is our more traditional 2D points. 248 00:13:11,330 --> 00:13:16,280 Get a GPS, get a, a total station out there, versus we 249 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:17,750 need to get out there with a. 250 00:13:18,735 --> 00:13:19,845 Laser scanning system. 251 00:13:20,445 --> 00:13:22,185 So what kind of guides you with that? 252 00:13:22,455 --> 00:13:23,055 Absolutely. 253 00:13:23,105 --> 00:13:26,075 Obviously, you know, it's very project dependent but you know, 254 00:13:26,075 --> 00:13:29,915 most times it comes down to, is it interior or exterior mapping? 255 00:13:30,165 --> 00:13:31,695 Or a combination of both. 256 00:13:31,945 --> 00:13:35,755 So for example, you know, if we're doing, focusing on indoor mapping for a K through 257 00:13:35,755 --> 00:13:39,445 12 school district where they're creating maps for, you know, interactive maps for 258 00:13:39,445 --> 00:13:42,715 safety and security, critical glimpse in the mapping emergency response, right. 259 00:13:43,180 --> 00:13:45,600 Not gonna really use you know, traditional land surveying 260 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,730 techniques in that scenario, right? 261 00:13:47,730 --> 00:13:51,180 Because it's all, or mainly indoor mapping, you're gonna use lidar laser 262 00:13:51,180 --> 00:13:52,680 scannings to create those point clouds. 263 00:13:52,950 --> 00:13:57,930 We do go around the exterior of the school as well to, you know, map the entire site. 264 00:13:58,170 --> 00:14:02,010 Traditionally using lidar, land surveying lidar technology as well, because we're 265 00:14:02,010 --> 00:14:04,440 already there doing that type of work. 266 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,590 Every now and then we do come across products where, hey, we really need 267 00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:10,710 to make sure, you know, we, we tag that valve and sometimes they'll 268 00:14:10,710 --> 00:14:14,160 let smaller information to be harder to extract from point clouds. 269 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,230 While it is usually visible, we do like to kind of double 270 00:14:17,230 --> 00:14:19,450 verify those kind, those kind of. 271 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:20,450 Feature. 272 00:14:20,450 --> 00:14:24,300 So we will go back out with, you know, GPS or traditional land surveying 273 00:14:24,300 --> 00:14:26,160 equipment to, to locate those. 274 00:14:26,490 --> 00:14:28,860 You know, another, another example of a project I'm working on right 275 00:14:28,860 --> 00:14:31,500 now is a cemetery mapping project where we're actually going out and 276 00:14:31,500 --> 00:14:34,890 collecting, you know, the, the, the locations of headstones as well 277 00:14:34,890 --> 00:14:37,980 as documenting, you know, what the site looks like by taking a picture. 278 00:14:38,100 --> 00:14:41,460 And one of the quite, well, I was toying with the idea of do we wanna 279 00:14:41,460 --> 00:14:46,170 use our lidar skiing technology that captures 360 panoramic imagery, or 280 00:14:46,170 --> 00:14:47,610 do we wanna go the traditional route? 281 00:14:48,290 --> 00:14:51,930 You know, GPSing every headstone and taking a picture all through, 282 00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:53,910 you know, various ESRI applications. 283 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,630 We actually decided to go the traditional route just because we thought the lidar 284 00:14:57,750 --> 00:15:02,980 probably is a little bit of overkill for a more basic 2D map deliverable. 285 00:15:03,180 --> 00:15:06,720 And in terms of the time efficient we, efficiency, we felt like it was the same. 286 00:15:07,150 --> 00:15:08,890 So that was one kind of project we're like, well, which, which 287 00:15:08,890 --> 00:15:09,970 one do we want to go here? 288 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,600 And it's always, you know, you start with that to get it 289 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,040 done and, and have it there. 290 00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:19,210 And if the client wants you to come back and scan the headstones to get 291 00:15:19,210 --> 00:15:22,780 the inscriptions and things that, as you know, whenever you're looking at 292 00:15:22,780 --> 00:15:24,920 headstones they wear down over time. 293 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:29,820 And LIDAR does a great job of helping to kind of pull out those details 294 00:15:29,820 --> 00:15:31,440 that are lost a lot of times visually. 295 00:15:31,830 --> 00:15:36,470 So, yeah, I mean it's having those different deliverables as options later 296 00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:38,570 on is always a great option as well. 297 00:15:39,470 --> 00:15:43,370 And kind of talking about then going back from the point clouds to a more 298 00:15:43,370 --> 00:15:47,900 traditional product because the point cloud and the 3D models that you can 299 00:15:47,900 --> 00:15:49,580 create from that, the reality capture. 300 00:15:49,955 --> 00:15:54,425 Is great for looking at in a game engine or those type of environments, but 301 00:15:54,785 --> 00:15:59,675 not all clients have that capability or desire to be able to move around. 302 00:15:59,675 --> 00:16:01,945 They want a more traditional product. 303 00:16:02,335 --> 00:16:03,025 So you can talk. 304 00:16:03,025 --> 00:16:05,905 Can you talk a little bit about that process of going back from 305 00:16:06,415 --> 00:16:12,115 this very dense, high resolution, high content point cloud to a more 306 00:16:12,385 --> 00:16:14,795 generalized 3D model or 2D model? 307 00:16:15,170 --> 00:16:15,950 Absolutely. 308 00:16:15,950 --> 00:16:19,400 So I mean, what it all comes down to, right, is what, what the end user, 309 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,080 what our client wants to visualize. 310 00:16:21,530 --> 00:16:25,040 Oftentimes, point clouds are, can be overkill in terms of 311 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:25,820 what you're capturing, right? 312 00:16:25,850 --> 00:16:28,160 'cause the way LIDAR scans works, it captures everything. 313 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,040 The ics, whether or not that's something that's going to be 314 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,080 included in your file dataset, right? 315 00:16:33,230 --> 00:16:35,810 So we're creating just standard floor clans. 316 00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:38,810 It's gonna capture the detail of everything in that room. 317 00:16:38,810 --> 00:16:40,190 Furniture lighting. 318 00:16:40,730 --> 00:16:43,310 Whatever your, I can see the scanner is going to pick up and that's 319 00:16:43,310 --> 00:16:44,330 going to be in the point cloud. 320 00:16:44,540 --> 00:16:48,860 Now oftentimes we will simplify that by just extracting only what's required 321 00:16:48,860 --> 00:16:52,400 for that project and then delivering it to them, like you said, in either A 2D 322 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,590 CAD or 3D bit oftentimes through GIS. 323 00:16:55,980 --> 00:16:59,785 I will say that with that, with a lot of these, you know, software 324 00:16:59,905 --> 00:17:03,385 integrations and partnerships specifically between Autodesk and Esri. 325 00:17:04,185 --> 00:17:08,085 As well as all the cloud-based solutions, it's becoming a lot easier 326 00:17:08,085 --> 00:17:14,295 to deliver these, you know, higher and heavier dataset deliverables to 327 00:17:14,295 --> 00:17:17,265 clients through those cloud systems. 328 00:17:17,265 --> 00:17:20,055 So, you know, prior to a lot of these workflows delivering 329 00:17:20,055 --> 00:17:21,315 a BIM multiple client. 330 00:17:21,645 --> 00:17:25,065 That wasn't an architect or an engineer was unheard of or 331 00:17:25,065 --> 00:17:26,355 you know, even a point cloud. 332 00:17:26,595 --> 00:17:31,035 But now with those integrations through, you know, easy to use web browsers, 333 00:17:31,035 --> 00:17:35,985 I can send you a link of an extremely detailed BIM model or point cloud that 334 00:17:35,985 --> 00:17:40,125 just gives you more access to more information that you already paid for. 335 00:17:40,455 --> 00:17:44,475 So while at the end of the day, yes, all you need is those 2D plans, you 336 00:17:44,475 --> 00:17:49,965 can now access that higher resolution imagery point cloud or BIM model 337 00:17:50,145 --> 00:17:52,275 through, you know, hosted web browsers. 338 00:17:52,495 --> 00:17:55,825 So it is slowly starting to change and I think that that's helping a 339 00:17:55,825 --> 00:18:00,445 lot of organizations that kind of maybe not better understand the 340 00:18:00,445 --> 00:18:03,745 process and workflow, but get more out of the project, get a higher ROI. 341 00:18:04,495 --> 00:18:08,355 Or even you know, be able to expand the solution to other 342 00:18:08,355 --> 00:18:10,125 departments within an organization. 343 00:18:10,515 --> 00:18:10,725 Yeah. 344 00:18:10,725 --> 00:18:14,295 Having that generalized content you know, it's, it's a good place for 345 00:18:14,295 --> 00:18:17,265 the client to start because they know this is what they need, this is what 346 00:18:17,265 --> 00:18:21,065 they want, but then having access to those additional data through Fusions 347 00:18:21,065 --> 00:18:26,555 360 or a web scene viewer and RTS online, just like you're saying, just. 348 00:18:26,885 --> 00:18:29,945 Makes it a little bit deeper for them, gives them that extra information. 349 00:18:29,945 --> 00:18:32,615 If they need more things pulled out that they can see in it, they, 350 00:18:32,675 --> 00:18:35,165 they know to come back to you and talk about those type of things. 351 00:18:35,795 --> 00:18:36,365 Exactly. 352 00:18:36,575 --> 00:18:40,125 So I wonder if we're looking at this wealth of technologies, you've 353 00:18:40,125 --> 00:18:43,075 been in the field since before the. 354 00:18:45,355 --> 00:18:50,525 Closer integration between the a EC on the Autodesk side and the GIS on the, 355 00:18:50,885 --> 00:18:53,045 and various tools on the Esri side. 356 00:18:53,335 --> 00:18:58,385 Can you talk a little bit about your feelings about this, this thing 357 00:18:58,385 --> 00:19:01,955 that happened, what was about three, four years ago now, where Autodesk 358 00:19:01,955 --> 00:19:05,975 and Esri said, you know what, we're going to not just let people do 359 00:19:05,975 --> 00:19:07,445 loose coupling between our products. 360 00:19:07,445 --> 00:19:09,065 We are going to intentionally go through. 361 00:19:09,650 --> 00:19:14,560 And, and work together to make these workflows a little bit more seamless. 362 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:15,640 Yeah, absolutely. 363 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,320 I mean, I think, I think it's great. 364 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:21,040 Clearly there was a need for it in the industry and they saw that opportunity. 365 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,400 I think it was like at this point, maybe like six years ago, that they 366 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,330 announced their official partnership. 367 00:19:26,330 --> 00:19:28,970 Now, that had always been a little bit of interoperability between the 368 00:19:28,970 --> 00:19:32,270 two, but not really to the extent of course, that we're seeing now. 369 00:19:32,690 --> 00:19:34,790 Clearly there was the need for it. 370 00:19:34,790 --> 00:19:36,230 They saw the opportunity. 371 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:36,710 Yeah. 372 00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:39,500 So that really, I mean, I think it's, it's allowing, like I mentioned also 373 00:19:39,500 --> 00:19:44,360 earlier, it's allowing a lot more people to benefit from these solutions 374 00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:49,340 and softwares that previously only architects and engineers used bim. 375 00:19:49,340 --> 00:19:49,670 Right. 376 00:19:49,700 --> 00:19:53,150 Used really BIM and Rev and those suite of tools in the JS world. 377 00:19:53,420 --> 00:19:55,310 You know, never really touched that. 378 00:19:55,310 --> 00:19:56,480 Or not even the JS world, right? 379 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,770 A facility manager who's busy and MA maintaining. 380 00:20:01,205 --> 00:20:05,645 A school or a facility never would have used a 3D model in an app on their phone. 381 00:20:05,795 --> 00:20:09,305 But now they can quickly say, okay, where is that asset in that pump 382 00:20:09,305 --> 00:20:11,195 room that it needs to locate and fix? 383 00:20:11,195 --> 00:20:14,315 And what are those what, what are the attribute informations about that pump? 384 00:20:14,315 --> 00:20:14,885 What's the make? 385 00:20:14,885 --> 00:20:15,665 What's the model? 386 00:20:15,995 --> 00:20:20,105 You know, the ID number right now, they have that access through that integration. 387 00:20:20,105 --> 00:20:21,725 So it's really expanding the use. 388 00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:23,630 Of these data sets. 389 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,080 And I also think that before my time in land surveying or GIS right, 390 00:20:28,410 --> 00:20:32,490 GIS and land surveying and CAD all kind of started at the same place. 391 00:20:32,490 --> 00:20:37,380 Then over the years they really separated and diverse to where like, you know, 392 00:20:37,380 --> 00:20:41,160 the joke Land surveyors joke about GI S's, GIS stands for Get It survey. 393 00:20:41,985 --> 00:20:43,305 I don't think that's very fun, you know? 394 00:20:43,515 --> 00:20:46,485 But now we're starting to see the worlds are kind of coming back together, right? 395 00:20:46,485 --> 00:20:46,755 Right. 396 00:20:46,815 --> 00:20:47,715 We're saying, hold on. 397 00:20:47,985 --> 00:20:51,225 Lance surveys can use G-I-S-G-I-S can use Lance surveying data. 398 00:20:51,225 --> 00:20:56,355 And I think the integrations of AutoCAD and Esri are kind of really amplifying 399 00:20:56,355 --> 00:21:00,195 that, that these worlds do work together. 400 00:21:00,195 --> 00:21:03,075 They're not, GIS is not totally separate from these CAD s in 401 00:21:03,075 --> 00:21:04,215 that you can actually benefit. 402 00:21:04,455 --> 00:21:07,905 By using them both together in both Lance Survey bearers and JS 403 00:21:07,905 --> 00:21:09,615 professionals are benefiting from it. 404 00:21:09,615 --> 00:21:12,315 And now that that world's kind of getting mixed for the better. 405 00:21:13,095 --> 00:21:18,100 Yeah, I think there's, there's two technologies that did this weird I'm, I'm 406 00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:22,390 not sure how recent to really point it to, but beginning to bring them back together. 407 00:21:22,930 --> 00:21:27,590 On the one hand you have the use of GPS or GNSS in general that. 408 00:21:28,655 --> 00:21:31,875 Was a, a heavy thing for GIS users to take advantage of. 409 00:21:31,875 --> 00:21:36,055 But there was just this point where one day you're watching 410 00:21:36,155 --> 00:21:37,745 surveyors with total stations. 411 00:21:38,045 --> 00:21:39,275 The next day it's. 412 00:21:39,950 --> 00:21:41,630 Everybody's out there with a GPS unit. 413 00:21:42,230 --> 00:21:45,860 And I think that begins to, to change some of that mentality. 414 00:21:46,100 --> 00:21:50,040 And on the other hand, it's going back to the, the reality capture the 415 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,910 movement into digital twins, which of course is also what precipitated the, 416 00:21:54,450 --> 00:21:57,720 the connection, you know, that stronger connection between Autodesk and Esri. 417 00:21:58,230 --> 00:22:05,320 Just that the idea of BIM in general just really began to, to bring these together. 418 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,510 And so in my mind, these are two things that kind of. 419 00:22:08,035 --> 00:22:11,365 Began to bring them together at, at different stages. 420 00:22:11,365 --> 00:22:16,945 But it just, like you're saying, it, it brought this idea of where we started 421 00:22:16,945 --> 00:22:22,115 together, moved apart and now are kind of reflexively kind of coming back together. 422 00:22:22,485 --> 00:22:22,605 Mm-hmm. 423 00:22:23,025 --> 00:22:23,505 Began. 424 00:22:23,805 --> 00:22:24,165 Yeah. 425 00:22:24,435 --> 00:22:25,545 No, I mean, I completely agree. 426 00:22:25,545 --> 00:22:25,995 I think we're right. 427 00:22:26,025 --> 00:22:29,025 Digital twin was a pretty big driving factor. 428 00:22:29,055 --> 00:22:31,395 'cause everyone wants to, everyone wants a digital twin now. 429 00:22:31,545 --> 00:22:31,755 Yeah. 430 00:22:32,115 --> 00:22:36,555 And if only we could get the, the as-builts as they were actually built. 431 00:22:36,885 --> 00:22:38,385 But that's a whole other conversation. 432 00:22:38,685 --> 00:22:39,465 That's whole nother story. 433 00:22:39,465 --> 00:22:41,595 I'm working on a project right now where they keep saying, you know, 434 00:22:41,955 --> 00:22:45,885 as-builts, yeah, we could, because you know, it's more design and 435 00:22:45,885 --> 00:22:47,355 whatever happened after that is. 436 00:22:47,595 --> 00:22:48,765 You know? 437 00:22:49,125 --> 00:22:49,365 Yep. 438 00:22:49,365 --> 00:22:51,040 The last thing you see is there's a problem we're trying to solve now. 439 00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:51,560 Yeah. 440 00:22:51,565 --> 00:22:55,875 You see the architects CAD drawing or bim and you're like, okay, well 441 00:22:55,875 --> 00:22:57,375 how does that connect to reality? 442 00:22:57,475 --> 00:22:58,345 But that's a, yeah. 443 00:22:58,405 --> 00:22:58,975 Like you're saying. 444 00:22:59,635 --> 00:23:04,385 So then let's, let's jump into those digital twins and how you're 445 00:23:04,475 --> 00:23:08,325 utilizing this, especially like you were saying for these smart campuses 446 00:23:08,355 --> 00:23:09,255 that you've been working with. 447 00:23:09,705 --> 00:23:10,005 Yeah. 448 00:23:10,005 --> 00:23:10,605 So. 449 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:12,720 The common misconception, right? 450 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,620 Digital twin is like a 3D model, when that's a component of the digital 451 00:23:16,620 --> 00:23:20,790 twin, really digital twin, you know, is the real world, the real world 452 00:23:20,790 --> 00:23:22,410 conditions in the digital environment. 453 00:23:22,410 --> 00:23:25,590 So that is the visualizations of what, the visualization of 454 00:23:25,590 --> 00:23:29,100 something and the attribute information of what something is. 455 00:23:29,670 --> 00:23:32,790 So if I'm looking at a pipe, I can see the pipe, I know what 456 00:23:32,790 --> 00:23:34,320 system it's involved with. 457 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,150 I know when it install, I know the make. 458 00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:39,380 As well as, you know, or even we're talking about a pump, being able 459 00:23:39,380 --> 00:23:43,010 to pull that sensors associated with that pump, you know, to 460 00:23:43,010 --> 00:23:44,300 understand, you know, the flow. 461 00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:48,860 Being able to pull that into a data set or a dashboard or some type of 462 00:23:48,860 --> 00:23:50,480 data visualization platform, right? 463 00:23:50,690 --> 00:23:52,580 So that's really what the digital twin is. 464 00:23:53,210 --> 00:23:56,780 So a lot of, you know, what we're doing for campus isn't necessarily like a 465 00:23:56,780 --> 00:24:00,620 3D digital twin because that might not be necessary for what they're doing. 466 00:24:00,980 --> 00:24:05,390 So it's a 2D digital twin where we have, you know, floor plans for 467 00:24:05,390 --> 00:24:09,290 buildings and we have 2D representations of utilities around campus. 468 00:24:09,290 --> 00:24:12,860 Even, you know, some parking sidewalks, things of that nature. 469 00:24:12,860 --> 00:24:13,100 Right? 470 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,350 That all that information is tied in to, you know, a system of record, 471 00:24:18,350 --> 00:24:21,440 whether it's an asset management system or work order management system 472 00:24:21,630 --> 00:24:23,370 or even third party integrations. 473 00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:25,870 You know, for example, we're working on a project now where we're mapping 474 00:24:25,870 --> 00:24:27,580 out parking lots at a museum. 475 00:24:27,790 --> 00:24:31,150 So each parking lot has a, you know, has a feature. 476 00:24:31,210 --> 00:24:34,870 So we can get a count of parking spaces, square footage of parking spaces. 477 00:24:35,180 --> 00:24:38,660 And it's actually tied to a camera that knows when someone's 478 00:24:38,660 --> 00:24:39,980 parked there, when they're not. 479 00:24:40,130 --> 00:24:41,180 So now we have, you know. 480 00:24:41,570 --> 00:24:45,120 To use this example again, you know, parking a parking digital twin for 481 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:48,870 this museum, for example, where ultimately they're gonna know what 482 00:24:48,870 --> 00:24:52,290 parking spots are available, what are that's gonna be symbolized in red. 483 00:24:52,290 --> 00:24:55,440 They could see, you know, is that an accessible parking spot, electric vehicle 484 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,300 parking, or just a standard parking spot. 485 00:24:57,690 --> 00:25:01,470 So those are, you know, that's just a simple example of a 2D digital twin. 486 00:25:01,710 --> 00:25:04,530 Well, on, you know, on the flip side, we work with a lot of water and 487 00:25:04,530 --> 00:25:06,330 wastewater treatment facilities, right? 488 00:25:06,330 --> 00:25:06,750 Where. 489 00:25:07,125 --> 00:25:09,225 If you've ever been to a treatment facility or seen pictures of 490 00:25:09,225 --> 00:25:10,425 it or seen plans of it, right? 491 00:25:10,425 --> 00:25:14,325 There's piping layered on top of each other going every which way, and it 492 00:25:14,325 --> 00:25:20,445 is nearly impossible to decipher the meaning of that data in 2D, right? 493 00:25:20,655 --> 00:25:25,725 You really need a 3D digital twin for that kind of information where you can zoom 494 00:25:25,725 --> 00:25:30,135 in, can around, and really see how that piping system works or how it connects. 495 00:25:30,525 --> 00:25:33,195 And then again, you know, being able to tie that information to 496 00:25:33,345 --> 00:25:38,525 real time information, you know, through IOT sensors or other, like I 497 00:25:38,525 --> 00:25:42,125 mentioned, third party systems, like work order or, or asset management. 498 00:25:42,485 --> 00:25:42,605 Yeah. 499 00:25:42,605 --> 00:25:45,175 And I think a lot of people don't think about one, of course, like 500 00:25:45,175 --> 00:25:49,395 you're saying, the sensors and the, the real time reflexive, or reflective, 501 00:25:49,395 --> 00:25:54,025 I guess is a better word nature of, of digital twins, but also just the 502 00:25:54,025 --> 00:25:56,425 sheer amount of networking data. 503 00:25:57,265 --> 00:26:00,145 That also goes into this because understanding what's going on 504 00:26:00,145 --> 00:26:03,985 at one sensor, you then need to understand the routing upstream and 505 00:26:03,985 --> 00:26:08,065 downstream for say, the, the water treatment of, you know, what's going 506 00:26:08,065 --> 00:26:10,105 on with that pipe above and below. 507 00:26:10,105 --> 00:26:15,115 And how do other sensors reflect what this one sensor may be saying is an error. 508 00:26:15,975 --> 00:26:18,975 So yeah, it's just this combination of network and sensors that I 509 00:26:18,975 --> 00:26:21,405 don't think, like you're saying a lot of people think about. 510 00:26:21,405 --> 00:26:22,215 We think about the. 511 00:26:22,995 --> 00:26:28,585 Representation of the world, whether in 2D or 3D, but not that real-time nature 512 00:26:29,185 --> 00:26:31,275 that a true digital twin should be. 513 00:26:31,875 --> 00:26:32,265 Right. 514 00:26:32,265 --> 00:26:35,925 And then on top of that, it's like the predictive analytics in some situations 515 00:26:35,925 --> 00:26:37,395 too, that kind of just builds on that. 516 00:26:37,575 --> 00:26:37,755 Yeah. 517 00:26:37,755 --> 00:26:40,155 I mean, you know, talking about kind of the real-time sensors 518 00:26:40,155 --> 00:26:41,655 and predictive analytics. 519 00:26:41,655 --> 00:26:43,635 I mean, another example is a water wastewater treatment plant. 520 00:26:43,635 --> 00:26:45,135 We're evaluating a project right now. 521 00:26:45,345 --> 00:26:47,815 We've done some scanning, BI modeling for that where they 522 00:26:47,815 --> 00:26:49,645 want to use an Autodesk product. 523 00:26:49,675 --> 00:26:50,575 Autodesk Tandem. 524 00:26:50,935 --> 00:26:52,885 As their digital twin platform. 525 00:26:52,975 --> 00:26:56,225 I mean, tandem's an automotive product cloud-based really is 526 00:26:56,225 --> 00:26:57,515 a digital twin platform, right? 527 00:26:57,515 --> 00:27:00,815 It, it, it integrates with a lot of third party systems, real-time sensors. 528 00:27:00,815 --> 00:27:04,835 They want that to be their kind, centralized data repository of all 529 00:27:05,435 --> 00:27:07,055 treatment plant asset information. 530 00:27:07,355 --> 00:27:12,335 But they don't love the way that these models can be distributed through the 531 00:27:12,335 --> 00:27:14,765 Autodesk platforms to the organization. 532 00:27:14,765 --> 00:27:17,675 So they're looking at an integration with Esri and GIS 533 00:27:17,855 --> 00:27:19,415 to distribute that information. 534 00:27:20,015 --> 00:27:20,825 As an alternate. 535 00:27:20,825 --> 00:27:25,025 So that's just a great example of, you know, using an Autodesk product for full 536 00:27:25,025 --> 00:27:29,615 digital, digital twin, looking at, you know, integrating IOT sensors, predictive 537 00:27:29,615 --> 00:27:33,845 analytics, everything in Autodesk while distributing the model through Esri and 538 00:27:33,845 --> 00:27:38,975 GIS to their field technicians who know the ENE GIS world, not the Autodesk world. 539 00:27:39,130 --> 00:27:42,460 So that's kind of a good example of, you know, you know, your digital twin 540 00:27:42,460 --> 00:27:45,730 question and going back to your questions about, you know, these, these Autodesk 541 00:27:45,730 --> 00:27:47,890 and Esri and other software integrations. 542 00:27:48,070 --> 00:27:52,000 Now, another thing that you work on heavily and kind of touching back 543 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,810 to some of the, the smart campus facilities is indoor mapping. 544 00:27:56,260 --> 00:27:59,970 And your organization is a partner in Esri, partner with 545 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,530 Arc GIS, indoors as well. 546 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,850 Can you talk a little bit about how this all of these things kind of feed 547 00:28:04,850 --> 00:28:06,560 into how you're working with indoors? 548 00:28:06,770 --> 00:28:07,010 Yeah. 549 00:28:07,010 --> 00:28:11,420 So ArcGIS indoors is like, is a specific product of the Esri ecosystem. 550 00:28:11,420 --> 00:28:15,350 It's really like a, an extension of ArcGIS Pro, you know, desktop 551 00:28:15,350 --> 00:28:17,450 applications and ArcGIS online. 552 00:28:17,730 --> 00:28:18,900 So ArcGIS indoors. 553 00:28:19,295 --> 00:28:25,145 Is just a really good way to kind of use GIS as a centralized data 554 00:28:25,145 --> 00:28:30,245 repository for, you know, your indoor, but really campus information. 555 00:28:30,425 --> 00:28:33,155 I always say it should be called RGS campus because oftentimes we're not 556 00:28:33,155 --> 00:28:36,455 just mapping indoors, we're mapping entire sites from entire campuses. 557 00:28:36,865 --> 00:28:38,665 So it's a really good way to. 558 00:28:39,025 --> 00:28:44,255 Give tools to facility managers, safety and security teams space 559 00:28:44,255 --> 00:28:46,475 planners, even students or visitors. 560 00:28:46,475 --> 00:28:46,835 Right? 561 00:28:47,045 --> 00:28:51,245 Give them access to specific floor plan information that they need, right? 562 00:28:51,425 --> 00:28:54,755 So it's you know, in like the, the asset management world or facility 563 00:28:54,755 --> 00:28:57,365 manage facility management world, it's find it, fix it, right? 564 00:28:57,605 --> 00:28:58,295 Where is it? 565 00:28:58,500 --> 00:29:00,120 And, and what is it so I can fix it? 566 00:29:00,150 --> 00:29:00,510 Right? 567 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,550 But really it's, it's just tools that allow you to find 568 00:29:03,550 --> 00:29:05,680 things quickly and efficiently. 569 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,010 Whether it is a new student on a campus that needs to navigate to a 570 00:29:09,010 --> 00:29:12,280 classroom, or it's a first responder who needs to respond to an event 571 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,400 and know where is, where is that, you know, event taking place? 572 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,290 What's the nearest entrance exit? 573 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,680 What asset safety and what safety and security assets are there, right? 574 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,970 So ArcGIS Indoors is just a really great product that Esri has put out to support. 575 00:29:27,515 --> 00:29:29,205 A lot of those use cases. 576 00:29:29,565 --> 00:29:33,065 And just kind of to broaden out a, a little bit more we've used the 577 00:29:33,065 --> 00:29:36,845 term facility management and it's, it's one that is very important 578 00:29:37,035 --> 00:29:40,695 especially for the facility managers, but it's one that I think in the 579 00:29:40,695 --> 00:29:43,455 nineties whenever I was starting, there was a lot more conversations 580 00:29:43,455 --> 00:29:45,105 about facilities management and GIS. 581 00:29:45,820 --> 00:29:51,100 And it, it kind of went away in the early two thousands, but I feel that with the, 582 00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:54,490 the movement towards BIM and those type of things, that it's, it's really come 583 00:29:54,490 --> 00:29:59,030 back, but it just hasn't had that same conversation point that it once had. 584 00:29:59,570 --> 00:30:03,050 So can you talk a little bit more about just this idea of facilities management 585 00:30:03,050 --> 00:30:04,610 in general that you've been working with? 586 00:30:05,060 --> 00:30:05,840 Yeah, absolutely. 587 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,740 I mean, I think facility management hasn't, has not been a spatial. 588 00:30:10,565 --> 00:30:13,145 Spatial application in a, for a long time. 589 00:30:13,295 --> 00:30:13,565 Right. 590 00:30:13,565 --> 00:30:16,625 So it's, it's, you know, people have great facility management 591 00:30:16,810 --> 00:30:20,415 softwares, EAM, softwares, and it's just a record in the spreadsheet, 592 00:30:20,415 --> 00:30:23,385 more or less, you know, obviously through, you know, an application. 593 00:30:23,575 --> 00:30:26,835 And you know, you might have a field that has that location you know, locational 594 00:30:26,835 --> 00:30:28,935 information, but it's not on a map, right? 595 00:30:28,935 --> 00:30:34,575 Maps are very easy to understand, 300 looking at hundreds of rows in a table. 596 00:30:34,860 --> 00:30:38,100 Or even just one row on a table, you don't quite understand as much. 597 00:30:38,100 --> 00:30:40,770 So, you know, we're we're building that connectivity of 598 00:30:40,770 --> 00:30:42,210 understanding and allowing. 599 00:30:42,945 --> 00:30:46,425 Facility managers and maintenance crews to under really understand contextually, 600 00:30:46,605 --> 00:30:51,165 you know, what it is they're working with and just an easier way to find and fix it. 601 00:30:51,615 --> 00:30:51,825 Yeah. 602 00:30:51,825 --> 00:30:54,705 I think in the, in the nineties, like I was saying, whenever there was a 603 00:30:54,705 --> 00:30:58,785 lot of conversation about it, it was the CAD line work and you know, the 604 00:30:58,785 --> 00:31:02,445 little bit of attribution that you can do with the different layers in cad. 605 00:31:02,595 --> 00:31:02,685 Mm-hmm. 606 00:31:02,915 --> 00:31:06,105 And this whole other document, like you're saying, an Excel sheet or 607 00:31:06,165 --> 00:31:09,915 database that you then had to go to once you figured out which line. 608 00:31:10,350 --> 00:31:13,590 You'd go then look up that line number in the, the data table. 609 00:31:13,870 --> 00:31:16,840 And there was just this disconnect and a lot of it, I think you know, we'd 610 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,100 lost a lot of the spatial information as people ignored the CAD eventually 611 00:31:21,100 --> 00:31:22,810 and focused more on the, the table. 612 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,210 But yeah, it's, it's great seeing that coming back together 613 00:31:26,210 --> 00:31:27,440 over the last decade or so. 614 00:31:27,675 --> 00:31:28,785 And seeing a lot more of work. 615 00:31:29,535 --> 00:31:29,745 Yeah. 616 00:31:29,745 --> 00:31:31,455 Now it's like, Hey, I got a, you know, on my phone. 617 00:31:31,455 --> 00:31:31,935 I get an alert. 618 00:31:31,935 --> 00:31:33,345 I got, I got a work order in that room. 619 00:31:33,345 --> 00:31:36,465 I can view the room, view the work order, see what assets are in that 620 00:31:36,465 --> 00:31:40,395 room, click on that point, and then my work order system will show me what 621 00:31:40,395 --> 00:31:43,755 that asset information was that what that record is in that table, right? 622 00:31:43,755 --> 00:31:46,065 All in that one, one location. 623 00:31:46,425 --> 00:31:46,710 Yeah. 624 00:31:46,710 --> 00:31:49,155 And we're slowly, I mean, we're seeing that on our campus where we have 625 00:31:49,645 --> 00:31:53,335 slowly seen more of the electricians, more of the, folks that are working 626 00:31:53,335 --> 00:31:58,275 with network and, and water being there with their phones, with our, our 627 00:31:58,275 --> 00:32:00,745 campus facilities and, and utility map. 628 00:32:01,315 --> 00:32:04,975 So they can say, whenever they get a call, go find this line. 629 00:32:04,975 --> 00:32:07,285 They can say, okay, well this is where this line is, like you're saying, 630 00:32:07,615 --> 00:32:09,625 and yet it's not just internal facility. 631 00:32:10,030 --> 00:32:12,100 Yeah, I mean, you know, managers and teams, right? 632 00:32:12,100 --> 00:32:14,710 It's, it's working with outside contractors who come to a campus 633 00:32:14,710 --> 00:32:16,870 and say, I don't know this, you know, I don't know this campus. 634 00:32:16,870 --> 00:32:20,410 And being able to give, distribute this information through, you know, 635 00:32:20,620 --> 00:32:22,750 mobile apps and web apps as well. 636 00:32:22,870 --> 00:32:26,500 And on top of that, we have our, our facilities is also involved 637 00:32:26,500 --> 00:32:30,310 with the 8 1 1 calls for a certain distance from our campus. 638 00:32:30,310 --> 00:32:32,500 So, yeah, they, yeah, they love that. 639 00:32:33,340 --> 00:32:36,580 So, yeah it, it, it, like I said, it is good to see more. 640 00:32:37,180 --> 00:32:40,060 Movement back into the facilities management within the, the GIS 641 00:32:40,060 --> 00:32:41,630 space as we're moving forward. 642 00:32:41,900 --> 00:32:43,460 Well, I was just saying, you know, going back to your original question 643 00:32:43,460 --> 00:32:46,160 of talking about RC js indoors and how this plays a part, I think it, 644 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,750 you know, it's a really cool kind of workflow to achieve, you know, indoor 645 00:32:50,750 --> 00:32:54,350 mapping or smart campus mapping because it doesn't gal all these technologies. 646 00:32:54,590 --> 00:32:57,950 And oftentimes, you know, we get questions when we're doing implementations or 647 00:32:57,950 --> 00:32:59,330 start an implementation conversation. 648 00:32:59,750 --> 00:33:00,500 How do we get there? 649 00:33:00,500 --> 00:33:03,590 You know, oftentimes it's, we have scans. 650 00:33:03,980 --> 00:33:08,180 PDFs, you know, that we're hand drawn of the facility when it was 651 00:33:08,180 --> 00:33:09,560 built a hundred years ago, right? 652 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,560 We can take that, we can digitize it, we can bring it to the workflow. 653 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,650 You can go out there and, you know, perform reality capture with 654 00:33:15,650 --> 00:33:18,440 lateral laser scanning and create the content from point clouds. 655 00:33:18,530 --> 00:33:19,880 It be 2D, 3D. 656 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,620 So there are a lot of, you know, routes to go to achieve, you know, 657 00:33:24,710 --> 00:33:26,390 kind of these smart campus initiatives. 658 00:33:26,915 --> 00:33:27,635 Indoor mapping. 659 00:33:27,665 --> 00:33:29,855 So it really ties down everything we're talking about together because 660 00:33:29,855 --> 00:33:34,475 it does involve reality capture, cap, bim, GIS, asset management 661 00:33:34,475 --> 00:33:36,365 systems, full digital twin. 662 00:33:36,725 --> 00:33:39,095 And it's good that we have organizations such as yours 663 00:33:39,155 --> 00:33:40,055 that are willing to take it on. 664 00:33:40,355 --> 00:33:40,835 Appreciate it. 665 00:33:40,955 --> 00:33:42,935 No, I mean, it's, it's fun and pouring work. 666 00:33:42,935 --> 00:33:44,225 I mean, we enjoy doing it. 667 00:33:44,495 --> 00:33:46,805 Now we've, we focus on a few of the things that you guys do. 668 00:33:46,805 --> 00:33:49,965 Is there anything else you kind of wanna highlight about what MapIT 669 00:33:50,265 --> 00:33:52,245 or, sorry, Map I.T. works on? 670 00:33:52,590 --> 00:33:53,550 Yeah, absolutely. 671 00:33:53,550 --> 00:33:56,820 I mean, so one of the, one of the newer things we started to do in-house now is 672 00:33:56,820 --> 00:34:00,510 you know, started to build a lot more custom tools and we saw a need for that. 673 00:34:00,510 --> 00:34:04,660 While there are a lot of great Esri tools out there and CAD tools already we were 674 00:34:04,660 --> 00:34:07,780 finding, you know, on some of our large scale deployments, you know, working with. 675 00:34:08,545 --> 00:34:10,435 Hundreds of schools at a time. 676 00:34:10,745 --> 00:34:14,225 You know, finding little things that weren't quite there that need 677 00:34:14,225 --> 00:34:17,445 to be, you know, need to be tweaked to be perfected for our clients. 678 00:34:17,445 --> 00:34:21,655 So we started to do a lot more custom GS developer work which has been great. 679 00:34:21,655 --> 00:34:24,385 And we've been doing them both in CAD as well as gi IS. 680 00:34:24,715 --> 00:34:28,585 So that capability has really allowed us to kind of enhance. 681 00:34:29,110 --> 00:34:31,540 Full digital twin workflow and a Jason Door workflow that 682 00:34:31,540 --> 00:34:32,800 we providing to our clients. 683 00:34:32,990 --> 00:34:34,610 We've got a lot of good positive feedback. 684 00:34:34,610 --> 00:34:37,970 So that's been something we've thoroughly enjoyed doing as late. 685 00:34:38,450 --> 00:34:41,120 What is the best way for people to find out more about Map? 686 00:34:41,290 --> 00:34:41,930 Map I.T.. 687 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:42,980 Yeah. 688 00:34:42,980 --> 00:34:43,760 Ab absolutely. 689 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,310 And so funny you said Map I.T.. Map I.T.. That was kind of 690 00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:47,780 the, kind of the play on words. 691 00:34:47,780 --> 00:34:49,860 When we came up with a name a while back, we had a Map I.T., 692 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:50,780 'cause it's, you know, it's. 693 00:34:51,110 --> 00:34:53,900 It's, I it's got that it word in it's fresh, but you could also 694 00:34:53,900 --> 00:34:57,140 say we Map I.T.. So, you know, it did funny you, you, you said that. 695 00:34:57,240 --> 00:34:59,520 But people would definitely reach out to us through our website. 696 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,440 My contact information's on there. 697 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,870 You know, I, I love talking about this stuff, so I'm connecting 698 00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:06,520 on LinkedIn through email. 699 00:35:06,570 --> 00:35:09,300 You know, we, we, we are pretty active on LinkedIn. 700 00:35:09,610 --> 00:35:13,150 So, so we post frequently about kinda what we're doing, what we've been working on. 701 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,940 So by any, by any of those means you know, we'd be happy to connect. 702 00:35:17,285 --> 00:35:17,645 Okay. 703 00:35:18,305 --> 00:35:20,225 Well thanks for your time today. 704 00:35:20,675 --> 00:35:20,975 Awesome. 705 00:35:20,975 --> 00:35:21,755 Thanks for having me 706 00:35:29,765 --> 00:35:30,695 onto the events corner. 707 00:35:32,075 --> 00:35:37,505 As always, go out, visit events, find out new information, but of course, 708 00:35:37,505 --> 00:35:43,145 more importantly, talk to people in the hallways at lunch, wherever. 709 00:35:44,135 --> 00:35:47,435 The state of the Map 2025 is taking place October 3rd through the 710 00:35:47,435 --> 00:35:49,475 fifth in the Philippines in Manila. 711 00:35:50,315 --> 00:35:55,235 Spatial Data Science Conference, SDSC 2025 is taking place October 712 00:35:55,235 --> 00:35:57,575 14th through 15th in New York City. 713 00:35:58,295 --> 00:36:00,605 Of course, if you'd like us to add your event to the podcast, send us an 714 00:36:00,605 --> 00:36:02,195 email to podcast to very spatial.com. 715 00:36:02,495 --> 00:36:05,855 If you'd like to reach us individually, I can be reached at sue@veryspatial.com. 716 00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:08,780 I can be reached at barb@veryspatial.com. 717 00:36:09,110 --> 00:36:13,070 You can reach me atFrank@veryspatial.com and I'm available, but kind to spatial. 718 00:36:13,070 --> 00:36:15,320 And of course, you can find all of our contact information over 719 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,320 at very spatial.com/contact. 720 00:36:18,650 --> 00:36:19,250 As always, 721 00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:20,930 we're the folks from very spatial. 722 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:21,800 Thanks for listening. 723 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:23,630 We'll see you in a couple weeks. 724 00:36:38,930 --> 00:36:41,240 Run far from a broken home. 725 00:36:44,660 --> 00:36:45,710 Smile through the. 726 00:36:45,785 --> 00:36:50,495 Great unknown, like nothing's wrong. 727 00:37:08,070 --> 00:37:10,170 Drinking water from the garden home, 728 00:37:13,980 --> 00:37:19,555 acting like we're six years old with the lights on. 729 00:37:28,315 --> 00:37:28,435 I. 730 00:37:57,555 --> 00:37:57,675 I. 731 00:38:12,730 --> 00:38:13,630 To feeling like 732 00:38:23,310 --> 00:38:23,430 I.