1 00:00:02,610 --> 00:00:06,630 Hello there, health coaches. Thank you so much for joining us today. 2 00:00:06,630 --> 00:00:10,890 We are going to have a probably somewhat uncomfortable 3 00:00:10,900 --> 00:00:13,110 conversation about diet, 4 00:00:13,110 --> 00:00:17,700 culture and the wellness industry and us as health 5 00:00:17,700 --> 00:00:18,533 coaches. 6 00:00:18,780 --> 00:00:22,620 And I only say it's going to be uncomfortable because I remember how I felt when 7 00:00:22,620 --> 00:00:26,730 I realized maybe my work is crossing the line, 8 00:00:26,730 --> 00:00:31,530 maybe I'm actually perpetuating diet culture inadvertently. 9 00:00:31,740 --> 00:00:36,690 And it was an uncomfortable realization that hit me quite a few years into 10 00:00:36,690 --> 00:00:38,010 my health coaching practice. 11 00:00:38,250 --> 00:00:42,780 Definitely changed some things about how I did business. Now, 12 00:00:42,780 --> 00:00:44,790 Katey Caswell is joining me today. 13 00:00:44,790 --> 00:00:49,710 Katey is my head coach inside Healthy Profit University and a dear friend 14 00:00:49,710 --> 00:00:53,880 and became, because she and I came from different backgrounds. 15 00:00:54,030 --> 00:00:56,640 We just came to health coaching in such different ways. 16 00:00:56,850 --> 00:01:01,710 We thought this would be a fantastic discussion to have together and 17 00:01:01,710 --> 00:01:04,260 with you. So thanks for being here, Katey. 18 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:06,390 Of course, always great to see you. Michelle. 19 00:01:07,260 --> 00:01:08,730 Before we dive in, you guys, 20 00:01:08,730 --> 00:01:11,610 this episode is brought to you by Healthy Profit University. 21 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,060 If you're looking to build your health coaching business and you want to learn 22 00:01:15,060 --> 00:01:18,900 from coaches who have been in your exact shoes, 23 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,680 not like marketing bros or tech heads, 24 00:01:22,950 --> 00:01:25,080 get our free Healthy Profit University 25 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:29,340 blueprint 26 00:01:29,340 --> 00:01:30,530 at healthcoachpower.com/blueprint. And Katey, 27 00:01:30,530 --> 00:01:33,060 I thought we could start just what I just said. 28 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,660 We got into health coaching really in two different ways, 29 00:01:36,960 --> 00:01:40,050 so I thought maybe we could just start there. I mean, 30 00:01:40,050 --> 00:01:44,460 my whole health coaching journey started because of these fainting episodes that 31 00:01:44,460 --> 00:01:49,230 I was experiencing and a lot of dizziness and lightheadedness and just 32 00:01:49,230 --> 00:01:51,720 absolute passing out for years. 33 00:01:52,050 --> 00:01:56,820 And it was a real journey to figure out what the heck was going on with me. 34 00:01:57,210 --> 00:02:02,100 And when I did food, as we know, diet and lifestyle can change everything. 35 00:02:02,110 --> 00:02:03,390 It really did for me. 36 00:02:03,390 --> 00:02:07,650 And then I wanted to tell everybody about it and I felt so good and I had so 37 00:02:07,650 --> 00:02:10,230 much more energy and so much more alive. 38 00:02:10,230 --> 00:02:13,470 I became really annoying and I just wanted to evangelize. 39 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,160 I think that happens to lots of us. So I was actually, 40 00:02:18,150 --> 00:02:21,510 I dunno if I was surprised, but I was like, oh, 41 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,190 when I realized that actually a lot of my clients wanted to talk about their 42 00:02:26,190 --> 00:02:30,840 weight and for me I was like, oh yeah, I mean that too. 43 00:02:31,110 --> 00:02:35,250 But it was certainly not where I was coming from with the whole thing. 44 00:02:36,450 --> 00:02:38,880 So that was my story. Will you share yours? 45 00:02:39,570 --> 00:02:44,310 Oh, of course, yes. So for me, it was all about the weight. I mean, 46 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,400 I grew up a normal size person, 47 00:02:47,970 --> 00:02:52,500 but all the little cues around me told me I was not a normal size person 48 00:02:53,190 --> 00:02:57,420 told me that I was big. I just found a pair of pants size seven, 49 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,480 size seven DoorDash jeans. Certainly not morbidly obese, 50 00:03:02,350 --> 00:03:06,700 but in my head I was so much bigger than all the other girls 51 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:12,070 and I tried everything to not be bigger. 52 00:03:12,070 --> 00:03:16,540 I remember in middle school I was eating half a container of 53 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,300 half a six ounce container of yogurt for breakfast, 54 00:03:19,810 --> 00:03:24,340 half a chocolate chip cookie for lunch and half of whatever my mom put on my 55 00:03:24,340 --> 00:03:28,960 plate for dinner and I still felt like I was gaining weight and being really 56 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:33,880 big and people around me were kind of agreeing with 57 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:34,713 me. 58 00:03:34,990 --> 00:03:39,760 They would be really quick to buy me out the 77 shakes and figurines 59 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,810 and all the 1970s kind of diet foods out there. 60 00:03:44,350 --> 00:03:48,550 So my issues started way back. 61 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,010 I didn't know they were issues. I thought everyone thought that way. 62 00:03:51,370 --> 00:03:56,230 I moved into college, went to a place called the Diet Center where they're like, 63 00:03:56,230 --> 00:03:59,440 eat this many servings of this and this many servings of that. 64 00:03:59,710 --> 00:04:02,770 I remember the Diet center lady yelling at me because I'd say, well, yeah, 65 00:04:02,770 --> 00:04:05,290 you can go drink on the weekends and then you just got to eat a little less. 66 00:04:05,830 --> 00:04:07,870 And she was like, no, that's not healthy. 67 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,490 So I finally in my forties lost over a hundred pounds 68 00:04:13,060 --> 00:04:15,790 and I was like a convert. 69 00:04:15,790 --> 00:04:19,720 I ate very small portions and I was full. 70 00:04:19,780 --> 00:04:23,770 I ate very healthy foods, totally eliminated sugar, 71 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:28,510 went to the gym every day, worked out hardcore for over an hour, 72 00:04:29,260 --> 00:04:33,760 then found myself health coaching and that was what I thought everybody wanted. 73 00:04:34,690 --> 00:04:37,810 The health part of the coaching in my head was, 74 00:04:37,870 --> 00:04:39,280 you're healthy if you're smaller. 75 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,190 That was the message that the world had served me. 76 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,580 That's how I got into health coaching. 77 00:04:46,300 --> 00:04:51,070 You weren't wrong because what I learned has been in 15 years since I became a 78 00:04:51,070 --> 00:04:55,870 health coach now was that 99% of the women I ever worked with 79 00:04:56,230 --> 00:04:57,760 had that same thought. 80 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:02,350 Whether it was their main reason for working with me or if it was a secondary 81 00:05:02,350 --> 00:05:04,630 reason or even tertiary reason, 82 00:05:04,630 --> 00:05:07,810 it was always there For almost every single woman, 83 00:05:07,810 --> 00:05:11,230 the weight was a big issue. In fact, 84 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:16,150 it could be complicated because a woman could experience so many awesome 85 00:05:16,630 --> 00:05:19,210 changes over the course of our coaching program. 86 00:05:19,330 --> 00:05:22,030 She has more energy and she's sleeping better, 87 00:05:22,270 --> 00:05:24,760 and her relationship with maybe her husband was better, whatever, 88 00:05:24,910 --> 00:05:26,530 all her career, 89 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,880 she's making decisions with a clear head and yet it would be like, 90 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,330 but I didn't lose the weight. And I'm like, oh god. 91 00:05:36,220 --> 00:05:37,870 But it's interesting. 92 00:05:37,870 --> 00:05:41,440 We'll talk about different ways to approach this as a health coach, 93 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,220 but I think we have to for better or for worse, 94 00:05:45,220 --> 00:05:49,210 except that that is where most women are coming from. 95 00:05:49,210 --> 00:05:50,410 So you certainly weren't alone. 96 00:05:51,700 --> 00:05:56,460 No, I was not alone. Multi-billion dollar industry. Right. 97 00:05:57,500 --> 00:05:58,333 Right. 98 00:05:59,540 --> 00:06:04,520 So I would say I was about six years into 99 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:09,230 my practice before any of this dawned on me as being a problem. 100 00:06:09,650 --> 00:06:14,330 I thought if I could help someone lose weight and they were happy, then cool. 101 00:06:14,690 --> 00:06:17,480 I don't want to say a problem with that. It wasn't what I expected. 102 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,720 I didn't see it as problematic though. Actually, I'm curious, 103 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,080 for those of you that are here with us, live in the Facebook group now, 104 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:25,520 tell us in the chat, 105 00:06:26,150 --> 00:06:30,860 were you in a mindset of like, I'm going to help people lose weight. 106 00:06:31,070 --> 00:06:35,210 Did you come into your health journey through a weight loss avenue or was it 107 00:06:35,210 --> 00:06:36,530 something else entirely? 108 00:06:37,250 --> 00:06:39,770 I know we all have different stories of how we got here, 109 00:06:40,190 --> 00:06:43,610 but this is a really common one. Really, really common. So anyway, 110 00:06:43,610 --> 00:06:48,560 I was about six years into my practice and I had been 111 00:06:48,570 --> 00:06:52,340 running a 21 day detox program very successfully. 112 00:06:54,050 --> 00:06:57,680 No surprise looking back, right? Because that word detox, 113 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,930 even though first of all, that word is loaded. 114 00:06:59,940 --> 00:07:02,300 I know there's lots of reasons we don't like that word anymore, 115 00:07:02,300 --> 00:07:05,930 but it was really hot in 2010 and 116 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:12,170 I see now that women were really drawn to it because it has diet 117 00:07:12,410 --> 00:07:15,980 undertones to it without saying diet, 118 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,190 and it doesn't necessarily have to have those undertones, 119 00:07:19,310 --> 00:07:22,850 but for a lot of women it does. I think because the word detox, 120 00:07:22,850 --> 00:07:27,380 it's like remove toxins or get rid of the bad 121 00:07:27,380 --> 00:07:30,560 stuff. Don't be bad, be good. 122 00:07:30,950 --> 00:07:35,330 It is sort of that implication of the reading between the 123 00:07:35,330 --> 00:07:37,250 lines. And I didn't know that. Again, 124 00:07:37,250 --> 00:07:40,910 I thought I was putting together a program that was going to help women have 125 00:07:40,910 --> 00:07:45,680 more energy and see it wasn't that hard to cook real food in their kitchen and 126 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:50,300 save money on takeout. And what I found was that I was having a lot of 127 00:07:50,300 --> 00:07:55,250 repeaters in my program, which was great, but they would say things like, 128 00:07:55,580 --> 00:07:59,570 oh, time for another detox. I'm up another five, 10 pounds, 129 00:07:59,570 --> 00:08:01,340 time to detox again, Michelle. 130 00:08:01,610 --> 00:08:05,450 Or they would say Before this detox starts, 131 00:08:05,630 --> 00:08:10,160 I'm going to make sure to pret talk and eat a lot of 132 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,990 pizza and drink a lot and eat all the bad things because I know that I'm going 133 00:08:14,990 --> 00:08:19,130 to repent for it in a way, I grew up Catholic too, 134 00:08:19,130 --> 00:08:21,530 and I don't know how much of this has a religious bent, 135 00:08:21,770 --> 00:08:23,960 but just the idea of bad versus good, 136 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:27,110 I'm going to be bad and then I'm going to be good. And I'm like, oh, 137 00:08:27,770 --> 00:08:32,450 is that how they're using this program? That's not what I intended. Oh, 138 00:08:34,630 --> 00:08:37,070 so your experience was different, Katey, 139 00:08:37,100 --> 00:08:40,760 because from the get go you were helping people to lose weight. 140 00:08:41,270 --> 00:08:43,820 At what point were you like, huh. 141 00:08:45,500 --> 00:08:47,990 So as health coaches, 142 00:08:47,990 --> 00:08:51,890 I think we have a tendency to think everyone else's journey is just like ours 143 00:08:52,130 --> 00:08:56,580 and everyone else's solution. If they follow my, this helped me, 144 00:08:56,580 --> 00:09:00,870 it will help them, especially as a young health coach. And that's where I was. 145 00:09:01,350 --> 00:09:02,370 And through my journey, 146 00:09:02,580 --> 00:09:07,440 I actually did gain a lot of insight about my body 147 00:09:07,500 --> 00:09:12,120 and about my relationship with food. I don't know that I was focusing on that, 148 00:09:12,130 --> 00:09:15,720 but at the end I was like, okay, I'm this whole new person. 149 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:20,610 I'm not just a smaller person and I'm even someone who I could be big again and 150 00:09:20,610 --> 00:09:21,660 I'd be good with me. 151 00:09:22,560 --> 00:09:27,120 I learned that about myself and I thought everyone would 152 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,680 have that same experience. So I've helped a lot of people lose a hundred pounds, 153 00:09:33,060 --> 00:09:37,140 and then they were like, great, now I can buy all the clothes. And I'm like, 154 00:09:37,140 --> 00:09:40,110 well, how do you feel about you? And well, if I can keep it off. And I'm like, 155 00:09:41,460 --> 00:09:46,050 so I was realizing that not everyone's journey was the same as 156 00:09:46,050 --> 00:09:46,883 mine. 157 00:09:47,130 --> 00:09:51,690 And some people would get to that place and still have that notion 158 00:09:51,690 --> 00:09:56,520 that virtue smaller weight loss is all 159 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:00,300 about how virtuous you are. If you can stick to a program, 160 00:10:01,290 --> 00:10:02,123 then you're good. 161 00:10:02,650 --> 00:10:05,520 The whole dichotomy between good and bad that you were mentioning, and 162 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,030 they were coming to me for approval, 163 00:10:09,030 --> 00:10:13,440 and I don't remember ever going to anyone about approval like, yay, 164 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:14,820 I lost whatever weight I lost. 165 00:10:14,820 --> 00:10:19,710 I didn't ask anyone for a star on my forehead that I had done a 166 00:10:19,710 --> 00:10:22,470 good job. So for me, 167 00:10:22,470 --> 00:10:26,820 that's what I had to realize that people were not getting this growth 168 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:27,840 automatically, 169 00:10:28,230 --> 00:10:32,520 and it must've been something else other than losing weight that brought me to 170 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,870 that place. So that was kind of my big aha moment, 171 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,380 that not only could I help people lose weight if they wanted to, 172 00:10:40,710 --> 00:10:45,480 I could also help them realize that they didn't have to lose weight and 173 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,260 that their personal journey, I hate the word, 174 00:10:49,410 --> 00:10:54,360 but that their personal journey didn't necessarily have to coincide with 175 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,330 weight loss. They could go together or they didn't have to. 176 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:58,740 You could do them separately. 177 00:10:59,580 --> 00:11:04,170 That was my real aha moment where I could really be effective and help people in 178 00:11:04,180 --> 00:11:05,250 a variety of things. 179 00:11:06,090 --> 00:11:10,440 So it sounds like if you had a client who said, oh, I was so good this week, 180 00:11:11,010 --> 00:11:13,560 whatever, I kept my calories or I did whatever, 181 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,170 maybe you started stepping in and saying, oh, 182 00:11:16,170 --> 00:11:19,230 let's talk more about how you were good. What does that mean to you? 183 00:11:19,230 --> 00:11:20,100 Or something like that, right? 184 00:11:20,220 --> 00:11:25,140 Yes. Yes. And eventually got to the point where I would tell them good, 185 00:11:25,140 --> 00:11:26,040 sick, bad words. 186 00:11:26,730 --> 00:11:31,650 I don't like good and bad as words to really kind of get them into the mindset 187 00:11:31,710 --> 00:11:36,330 of just acceptance that a thing was a thing and it's a data point. 188 00:11:36,900 --> 00:11:37,740 So yes, 189 00:11:37,740 --> 00:11:42,540 we would definitely have conversations to help scare them away from their 190 00:11:42,540 --> 00:11:47,280 pats on the back being they starved themselves or they denied 191 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:52,080 themselves and they went through a whole mishmash of emotions 192 00:11:52,410 --> 00:11:54,850 in their head that wound up on the negative side. 193 00:11:55,630 --> 00:11:58,120 Right. So I think that's interesting, 194 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:02,710 and it might be interesting for all of our coaches listening to a first notice 195 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:07,150 where again, it could be completely inadvertently, 196 00:12:07,300 --> 00:12:12,010 your work is crossing into toxic diet culture of 197 00:12:12,020 --> 00:12:15,760 rewarding someone because they starved themselves this week. No, 198 00:12:17,090 --> 00:12:19,870 how are we going to talk about that? In my case, 199 00:12:19,870 --> 00:12:24,130 I stopped running my detox, I stopped calling it a detox, 200 00:12:24,130 --> 00:12:28,030 and I actually made the program much more simple. 201 00:12:28,030 --> 00:12:31,030 It wasn't as extreme. At one point, 202 00:12:31,030 --> 00:12:36,010 it was completely vegan, no alcohol, no sugar, no dairy, 203 00:12:36,010 --> 00:12:38,560 no gluten. It was very, very strict. 204 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:43,840 And I found that that was, for me, it was sustainable at the time. 205 00:12:43,850 --> 00:12:47,740 I'm not vegan now, but at the time I ate like that all the time. 206 00:12:47,830 --> 00:12:48,760 It was no big deal. 207 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,390 And I thought I could teach others to do the same and feel really great, 208 00:12:52,690 --> 00:12:55,690 but for them it was something they did for just a short period of time, 209 00:12:55,690 --> 00:12:59,200 and then they would go right back to it wasn't sustainable. So I was like, 210 00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:04,000 how can I make this still give them all the good benefits and also something 211 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:05,320 they could sustain? 212 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:10,030 So I changed my program pretty drastically and I changed the words and how I was 213 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:15,190 talking about the program. So that's a question for everybody listening. 214 00:13:15,430 --> 00:13:19,990 How might we course correct a little bit so that we are feeding, 215 00:13:19,990 --> 00:13:24,070 we're not feeding into that good versus bad dichotomy. 216 00:13:24,460 --> 00:13:29,110 And another way of talking about food that I really leaned 217 00:13:29,110 --> 00:13:32,710 into was we're going to experiment. 218 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,770 We're going to experiment with this way of eating. Oh, 219 00:13:36,430 --> 00:13:40,210 you are thinking of going gluten-free. Let's experiment with that. Oh, 220 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,860 you've heard that dairy might be contributing to mucus or sinus infections. 221 00:13:45,130 --> 00:13:48,220 Let's see how you feel if you take it out. 222 00:13:48,490 --> 00:13:51,400 So it became like we're going to be scientists. 223 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,430 And for those of you who have our five day jumpstart kit, 224 00:13:54,430 --> 00:13:58,720 you'll see that reflected in our jumpstart kit because we say that we're 225 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,190 scientists this week. 226 00:14:00,190 --> 00:14:04,720 We're just collecting data points like you said, Katey. 227 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,320 So that's an interesting thought Debbie's asking over here, 228 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,110 and I wanted to pass this along to Katey. She said, 229 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,280 how does one approach health coaching when you're not in a perfect place 230 00:14:15,290 --> 00:14:18,370 yourself? She says she's always been thin, healthy, energized, 231 00:14:18,550 --> 00:14:20,830 but haven't been in that place in a couple of years. 232 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:25,180 How do you justify helping others when you're not in that place yourself? 233 00:14:25,190 --> 00:14:26,890 We get this question all the time, don't we? 234 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:28,233 Yeah. 235 00:14:28,900 --> 00:14:32,620 So I always like to think about professional sports teams. 236 00:14:33,250 --> 00:14:34,630 When someone asks me that question, 237 00:14:35,410 --> 00:14:39,850 can the coach of the football team put on some 238 00:14:39,850 --> 00:14:44,200 pads and do what his players are doing? No, 239 00:14:44,590 --> 00:14:48,580 usually no, he can't. Whether he could ever, who knows. 240 00:14:48,580 --> 00:14:53,450 But he can't do that now and does look at him and say, 241 00:14:53,510 --> 00:14:54,800 Mr. Big Football coach, 242 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,190 you shouldn't be doing that because you can't get out there and tackle people. 243 00:14:58,820 --> 00:15:01,280 So I think it's interesting that as health coaches, 244 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,050 we think we have to be perfect in order to help someone else. 245 00:15:07,610 --> 00:15:11,000 And I don't think we do. In fact, I think if we're perfect, 246 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,310 it actually discourages people because they don't know if they're ever going to 247 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,770 be as perfect as their coach. 248 00:15:19,190 --> 00:15:24,170 It can also set up a little bit of that unhealthy, I'm trying, 249 00:15:24,170 --> 00:15:25,280 but I'm not getting there. 250 00:15:25,290 --> 00:15:30,290 And the feeling of failure even though they're doing better. So I think if 251 00:15:30,290 --> 00:15:34,010 you've been in a place where you've grown, 252 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:39,380 done something about yourself, about a part of you that you didn't love, 253 00:15:39,710 --> 00:15:44,510 if you've changed that you're in a place to relate to your client, 254 00:15:44,780 --> 00:15:48,950 and that's what our clients need. They need someone who can relate to them. 255 00:15:48,980 --> 00:15:51,950 They don't need someone who can tell them their perfect macros, 256 00:15:52,340 --> 00:15:56,690 who can show them that they have a perfect body and it is attainable if you only 257 00:15:56,690 --> 00:15:57,680 try hard enough. 258 00:15:58,820 --> 00:16:03,440 Sometimes people are not going to get to that place no matter how hard they try. 259 00:16:04,250 --> 00:16:07,310 So you just need to be human. You just need to relate. 260 00:16:07,310 --> 00:16:12,020 You just need to have the ability to help someone see their 261 00:16:12,020 --> 00:16:15,440 next step and to see that they can change. 262 00:16:16,070 --> 00:16:20,570 I don't think anyone has to be in perfect shape or eating a perfect diet 263 00:16:20,940 --> 00:16:22,580 to be able to do that. 264 00:16:23,450 --> 00:16:26,870 And if we waited until we were perfect in all aspects of health... 265 00:16:26,870 --> 00:16:27,770 I can't hear you. 266 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:29,473 You can't hear me? 267 00:16:33,710 --> 00:16:34,543 Can you hear me now? 268 00:16:36,170 --> 00:16:37,280 I wonder if it's just me. 269 00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:41,090 Well, that's a weird problem to have. 270 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,070 Okay, I can hear you now. It must be okay. 271 00:16:43,770 --> 00:16:44,603 I'm sorry about that. 272 00:16:45,260 --> 00:16:48,800 What I was saying was if everybody's technology worked perfect all the time, no, 273 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:49,633 no, no. 274 00:16:49,820 --> 00:16:54,530 What I was saying was if we waited until we all were in perfect health before we 275 00:16:54,650 --> 00:16:55,520 were health coaching, 276 00:16:55,850 --> 00:16:59,750 we would have about maybe two and a half health coaches in the world. 277 00:17:00,020 --> 00:17:03,080 Because even if you look at a health coach and you say, oh, 278 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,720 she's got it together because she's thin, 279 00:17:06,980 --> 00:17:11,120 she might be dealing with crippling anxiety on the inside or 280 00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:15,320 insomnia or who knows what, she might be hyperthyroid. 281 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,120 She might be having all kinds of other problems. 282 00:17:18,260 --> 00:17:22,820 So we never have to wait to be perfect. If we did, we never get there. 283 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,560 And I like what you said, Katey. I always like to say that I actually, 284 00:17:27,860 --> 00:17:31,220 I don't think I was ever really great at helping women lose weight. 285 00:17:31,490 --> 00:17:36,470 They would lose weight kind of as a byproduct of what they were doing. 286 00:17:36,860 --> 00:17:40,280 I was helping them with for other reasons. But if I really was like, 287 00:17:40,340 --> 00:17:42,200 I'm going to help those person lose weight, 288 00:17:42,380 --> 00:17:45,110 I was terrible at it because I've never had to lose weight. 289 00:17:45,110 --> 00:17:48,290 I have the skinniest chicken arms that have ever existed in the world, 290 00:17:48,890 --> 00:17:53,790 and I'm just like, I don't understand. I cannot relate to that. 291 00:17:54,420 --> 00:17:58,770 I can relate a lot to anxiety. I can relate a lot to insomnia. But anyway, 292 00:17:58,770 --> 00:18:02,940 my point is you're good to go, Debbie. And Debbie said, 293 00:18:02,940 --> 00:18:07,620 what a brilliant analogy referring to the coach. We like that. 294 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,500 The sports coach. I mean, we are coaches, right? The sports coach. 295 00:18:11,910 --> 00:18:16,320 So we work with so many health coaches inside of our 296 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:17,160 community, 297 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,720 and I was thinking of typical instances of how health coaches 298 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:26,610 might be even accidentally perpetuating diet culture even 299 00:18:26,610 --> 00:18:27,780 without realizing it. 300 00:18:27,810 --> 00:18:31,500 And just some different examples of what we see or even things that I've done 301 00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:36,450 myself in the past. So one would be this idea of good food and bad foods. 302 00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:40,680 I literally held a webinar one time that was called 303 00:18:41,550 --> 00:18:46,020 What Not To Eat that was back in the what Not to Wear era. 304 00:18:46,020 --> 00:18:50,130 And I thought that was very cool and very funny what not to eat. 305 00:18:50,130 --> 00:18:53,790 And it really was the eat this, don't eat that paradigm. 306 00:18:54,330 --> 00:18:57,600 That's something I would not do today. 307 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,870 Something that I see a lot of coaches doing or sharing before and 308 00:19:03,870 --> 00:19:07,140 after photos, which can be very motivating, 309 00:19:07,140 --> 00:19:10,830 but I think we need to be careful with those especially, 310 00:19:10,830 --> 00:19:14,880 I mean there's lots of things. Skin before and after is great. 311 00:19:15,090 --> 00:19:17,220 And certainly you might be talking about bloating, 312 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,180 but we know that usually those pictures are very much focused around weight loss 313 00:19:21,180 --> 00:19:24,720 and cellulite and those really sensitive areas. 314 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,660 What do you think about the before and afters, Katey? 315 00:19:30,180 --> 00:19:31,710 See, that's rough. When I lost weight, 316 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:36,750 it was a contest and we had to do before and after pictures. They're out there. 317 00:19:37,530 --> 00:19:40,410 My bikini pictures, big and small are out there. 318 00:19:41,010 --> 00:19:45,450 And the mind space that I was in, it was helpful for me 319 00:19:47,130 --> 00:19:50,220 to finish and to be good. 320 00:19:50,910 --> 00:19:53,610 So it wasn't helpful for me to grow as a person, 321 00:19:54,210 --> 00:19:56,580 which is what I want to help my clients do. 322 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:02,190 But it was helpful for me to be very dogmatic during the year that I lost 323 00:20:02,190 --> 00:20:06,930 weight. And that's what I was finding with the women that I was helping. 324 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,070 They were in that dogmatic head space where they were just moving forward with 325 00:20:11,070 --> 00:20:14,100 this singular vision and they weren't growing in other areas. 326 00:20:14,490 --> 00:20:19,110 So I don't love before and after pictures. 327 00:20:19,410 --> 00:20:23,820 What I instead encourage women to do is to have a realistic view of what they 328 00:20:23,820 --> 00:20:28,470 look at to stand in front of the mirror and kind of deconstruct themselves 329 00:20:28,470 --> 00:20:32,490 rather than going with the image that's in their hard drive of a brain already. 330 00:20:33,030 --> 00:20:36,090 And to find things that they find attractive about themselves, 331 00:20:36,630 --> 00:20:41,580 even if it's their ear lobe or their eyebrows or the color of 332 00:20:41,580 --> 00:20:45,750 their hair. I think if they're focusing on things that they like, 333 00:20:48,100 --> 00:20:52,720 that's their before and after because they're focusing on the good 334 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,140 things. And then later on they're like, now it's a whole picture. 335 00:20:56,350 --> 00:20:59,890 Now it's not just these little pieces that I can focus on. 336 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,920 Oh, I like that exercise. I like that. 337 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,740 And I know sometimes showing the before and after pictures, 338 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:10,720 it can be very impressive. It can be an important part of marketing. 339 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,550 Women are looking for weight loss, I guess. 340 00:21:12,550 --> 00:21:16,540 I'm not saying we should never show them, but what I really love, 341 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,830 I've seen this sometimes on Instagram you'll have a very fit 342 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,410 coach or influencer, whoever they are, 343 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:28,570 and they'll do photos where they're not posing, 344 00:21:29,410 --> 00:21:31,450 where they're not flexing their abs, 345 00:21:31,450 --> 00:21:35,110 where they are just standing a normal human being and guess what? 346 00:21:35,620 --> 00:21:37,720 Their belly bulges out like this. 347 00:21:38,230 --> 00:21:42,760 What happens when you just stand when you're not twisted just a certain way with 348 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:44,740 the lighting just a certain way. 349 00:21:45,790 --> 00:21:50,560 And I love that because when the same, if you can do both, you can say, Hey, 350 00:21:50,570 --> 00:21:53,500 I'm very fit. Sure, 351 00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:56,620 I can help you get fit too. And here's the reality, 352 00:21:56,740 --> 00:21:59,050 I also still have cellulite and that's normal. 353 00:21:59,350 --> 00:22:02,970 I also have stretch marks and that's normal. Whatever it is, 354 00:22:03,250 --> 00:22:04,960 I love that 355 00:22:07,090 --> 00:22:10,630 as fit as I've ever been in my life, not from every angle. 356 00:22:10,780 --> 00:22:15,280 It doesn't always look Picture magazine perfect, let's be honest. 357 00:22:15,460 --> 00:22:20,110 So I think that's a really lovely way to bring balance 358 00:22:20,590 --> 00:22:22,150 to what we're portraying. 359 00:22:23,140 --> 00:22:27,340 I even like to even extend that to other things, 360 00:22:27,580 --> 00:22:29,920 like not always having a face full of makeup, 361 00:22:30,610 --> 00:22:35,530 not always just being willing to show the imperfections 362 00:22:35,530 --> 00:22:38,530 as well. Does anything else come to mind for you, Katey, 363 00:22:38,530 --> 00:22:42,910 about typical instances how health coaches might be perpetuating diet culture? 364 00:22:45,910 --> 00:22:50,680 I think in Instagram we post the things that we eat. 365 00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:52,533 Yes. 366 00:22:53,350 --> 00:22:57,160 And generally it's the perfect plate. Look, I have my protein, look, 367 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,990 I have my veggies. Look, I have my complex carbs and I'm fantastic. 368 00:23:02,530 --> 00:23:04,240 So those perfect plates, 369 00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:07,990 I think it just makes people feel like if I don't have a perfect plate, 370 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,310 I am nothing. Everyone is, most people are all or nothing. See, 371 00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:13,780 I just said everyone, it's not everyone. 372 00:23:13,990 --> 00:23:18,160 Most people have that all or nothing mentality either I'm eating that perfect 373 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,960 plate all the time and there's a sprig of watercress and the nicely 374 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,880 plated, whatever. I don't know. 375 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,600 I've got plates that are about this big that I stick my food on, 376 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,840 and it is never pretty. So I think two things, 377 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,570 it's like this is what I'm eating and this is how I'm eating. 378 00:23:34,570 --> 00:23:38,050 I have the thme to plate my food perfectly every time, 379 00:23:38,050 --> 00:23:41,530 and you should be doing that too, even though they don't say that. 380 00:23:41,530 --> 00:23:43,240 I think that's the implication. 381 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:49,760 I love seeing when health coaches are like got my ice cream at Dairy 382 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:54,590 Queen with my kids, and then maybe later on they are eating a salad, 383 00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:58,520 but it's got cheese on it, right? It's not like that perfect, 384 00:23:58,580 --> 00:24:00,890 the perfect plate. 385 00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:06,530 And I think that's even a common hashtag what I ate today or something like 386 00:24:06,530 --> 00:24:07,363 that, 387 00:24:07,550 --> 00:24:11,930 that really does get into look how little I can eat or look how 388 00:24:11,940 --> 00:24:16,550 perfectly I can eat. I know sometimes, especially being in the 389 00:24:18,290 --> 00:24:20,330 having other health coaches look to me, 390 00:24:20,510 --> 00:24:23,000 you're listening to this podcast or you're my Facebook group, 391 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,970 you're following me on Instagram and I'll post. I posted recently, 392 00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:28,430 here are the cupcakes I made for my son's birthday. 393 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:33,320 I definitely get comments that's not very healthy, 394 00:24:34,010 --> 00:24:36,410 like oh, I'm surprised, stuff like that. 395 00:24:36,590 --> 00:24:39,230 So I do it more so when I eat pizza, 396 00:24:39,230 --> 00:24:43,700 I like to make sure that people see me eating pizza. We all do that, 397 00:24:43,700 --> 00:24:48,020 and it's generally not healthy unless you're on some very strict healing regimen 398 00:24:48,020 --> 00:24:49,310 for a short period of time. 399 00:24:49,730 --> 00:24:52,970 It's always healthier to have sort of that 80 20 rule going on. 400 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,570 So that's something to also think about what you're bringing to your life, 401 00:24:56,580 --> 00:24:59,870 but also to your public persona and the way you are perceived and what you're 402 00:24:59,870 --> 00:25:02,510 putting out there. Again, that balance. 403 00:25:02,930 --> 00:25:03,763 Yes. 404 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,790 So as we are running a little bit short on time, 405 00:25:08,150 --> 00:25:12,770 I wanted to talk about some options that we have as health coaches 406 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:18,470 being that this is an issue and one that I think many of us want to be 407 00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:19,303 aware of. 408 00:25:19,910 --> 00:25:24,170 So the first is meet women where they are, 409 00:25:25,070 --> 00:25:28,010 they want to lose weight. Great. 410 00:25:28,340 --> 00:25:32,900 That's bringing them to do something about their health in general. Okay, 411 00:25:33,110 --> 00:25:34,790 that's where they are. Meet them there, 412 00:25:35,030 --> 00:25:39,110 work with them and help them discover that there is a whole lot more to feeling 413 00:25:39,110 --> 00:25:43,490 their best. I like to ask my clients about how their sleep has improved, 414 00:25:43,490 --> 00:25:47,390 how their energy levels have improved, how their digestion has improved. 415 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,260 So I love that. Just broadening the conversation, 416 00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:53,150 even if they come to you for weight loss, 417 00:25:54,170 --> 00:25:57,800 I just want to say to be aware in this case that typically women are so 418 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,450 conditioned that they will want that weight loss. Like I said, 419 00:26:02,450 --> 00:26:04,340 some may be disappointed if they don't get it, 420 00:26:05,150 --> 00:26:09,320 but most will lose at least some weight and they're going to be thrilled and 421 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,040 they're going to be surprised and they're going to be delighted by all the other 422 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,430 benefits that came with working with you as a health coach, 423 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,490 or they're going to have more direction in their life. They're just going to be, 424 00:26:19,490 --> 00:26:23,150 like you said, Katey, just a different person all the way around. 425 00:26:23,450 --> 00:26:28,130 So I think that is one way of dealing with this reality. 426 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:33,620 Another way of dealing with it is to be the type of coach who avoids the 427 00:26:33,620 --> 00:26:36,350 weight loss topic entirely. 428 00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:40,790 You can have a practice that specializes in something totally different like 429 00:26:40,970 --> 00:26:45,720 eczema or Lyme disease where your messaging is going to be 430 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,310 around solving certain symptoms and problems and have nothing to do with weight 431 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,560 loss. But with that, 432 00:26:53,070 --> 00:26:55,380 I want you to be aware that still many of your clients, 433 00:26:55,380 --> 00:26:56,880 if they're women in particular, 434 00:26:57,030 --> 00:27:01,680 will also want to lose weight. And I also want to warn you that it can be harder 435 00:27:02,370 --> 00:27:07,260 to sign clients or find the right clients because the vast, vast, 436 00:27:07,270 --> 00:27:09,510 vast majority of women are thinking weight loss. 437 00:27:09,660 --> 00:27:13,350 And if you're not speaking to that, unfortunately, 438 00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:14,760 that's the paradigm that's out there. 439 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,610 So it might be harder to connect with clients, 440 00:27:17,850 --> 00:27:20,250 but when you connect with the right ones, boom, 441 00:27:20,250 --> 00:27:21,930 you can avoid the issue entirely. 442 00:27:23,070 --> 00:27:27,600 And then a third option is to specialize in the anti 443 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:28,890 diet movement. 444 00:27:28,900 --> 00:27:32,490 We have lots of health coaches in our community working in intuitive eating, 445 00:27:32,730 --> 00:27:37,680 working with clients specifically around retraining thought patterns and 446 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,510 about food, about their bodies. 447 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,240 So that's another way to go if you're really into this. 448 00:27:42,570 --> 00:27:44,400 I also want to mention though, 449 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,360 I see that it can be hard to find those clients and to find clients who are 450 00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:52,140 willing, not only interested in not dieting anymore, 451 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,390 but willing to spend a large sum of money to not lose weight. 452 00:27:58,010 --> 00:28:00,240 I'm not saying those clients aren't out there, 453 00:28:00,420 --> 00:28:05,270 but I do see that it is harder for coaches to find 'em. 454 00:28:06,870 --> 00:28:09,330 What do you think about those three options? Katey, did I miss anything? 455 00:28:11,340 --> 00:28:15,150 I think that those are great options and I think you can combine them a little 456 00:28:15,150 --> 00:28:19,680 bit. I like approaching women, 457 00:28:19,770 --> 00:28:22,920 having women approach me who do want to lose weight, 458 00:28:23,370 --> 00:28:28,290 and then using the five why's to really figure out what it is that they 459 00:28:28,290 --> 00:28:32,490 want. Do they want weight loss because they equate it with joy? 460 00:28:32,970 --> 00:28:35,280 Do they want weight loss? Because, excuse me, 461 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,690 they equate it with lack of anxiety because they've been anxious about weight 462 00:28:39,690 --> 00:28:40,523 their whole life. 463 00:28:41,220 --> 00:28:45,420 So I think you can do numbers one and two kind of at the same 464 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:46,230 time. 465 00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:50,850 You can meet someone where they are and help them understand that it's not 466 00:28:50,850 --> 00:28:55,470 mandatory to lose weight and introduce them to not the 467 00:28:55,530 --> 00:28:59,220 anti-D diet culture. So I guess it's not exactly the first and the second, 468 00:28:59,230 --> 00:29:04,230 but it's like a mixture that can help people who don't know that they're done 469 00:29:04,230 --> 00:29:07,290 with diets who think they still want to lose weight, 470 00:29:07,590 --> 00:29:10,020 or maybe they want to lose weight this week and next week they want to go to 471 00:29:10,020 --> 00:29:12,810 party and they want to lose weight this week, 472 00:29:12,810 --> 00:29:16,470 and then they want to go on a cruise and have all you can eat and helping them 473 00:29:16,740 --> 00:29:19,770 come to terms with who they are, what they want, 474 00:29:19,770 --> 00:29:24,750 and recognize that no one's judging them and 475 00:29:24,750 --> 00:29:26,280 they shouldn't be judging themselves. 476 00:29:27,450 --> 00:29:32,220 I remember when I first met Shannon and I interviewed Shannon a couple episodes 477 00:29:32,220 --> 00:29:34,860 ago. If you guys go back in the archives, Shannon's done very, 478 00:29:34,860 --> 00:29:37,590 very well in her health coaching business. And when I first met her, 479 00:29:37,590 --> 00:29:42,220 she was like, am I allowed to be a weight loss coach? What she's really good at? 480 00:29:42,670 --> 00:29:46,300 And I was like, what do you mean? Are you allowed? Because she was afraid. 481 00:29:46,900 --> 00:29:48,490 Is there backlash against that? 482 00:29:48,490 --> 00:29:52,990 Is it not okay to say that I help women lose weight? And I was like, yes, 483 00:29:53,140 --> 00:29:56,590 of course you can be a weight loss coach because there are women who want that. 484 00:29:56,770 --> 00:29:58,360 You can be any kind of coach you want. 485 00:29:58,370 --> 00:30:02,230 You can be a coach that helps people remove splinters. The thing is, 486 00:30:02,230 --> 00:30:04,540 are you going to find clients with it? Right? 487 00:30:04,540 --> 00:30:07,120 And you're definitely going to find clients who want to lose weight. But what I 488 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:08,140 love what Shannon does, 489 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,830 she'll post stuff on Instagram and she'll talk a lot about, 490 00:30:11,950 --> 00:30:15,340 it's not about the number on the scale, it's about feeling strong. 491 00:30:15,340 --> 00:30:16,270 And she is strong, 492 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,620 she lives really heavy and it's very aspirational in a different way. 493 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,730 And I'm sure somebody would argue, well, that's still about how your body looks, 494 00:30:24,730 --> 00:30:27,760 and that's still about eating the right things and counting the right macros, 495 00:30:28,180 --> 00:30:31,210 but our clients exist on this spectrum. 496 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:36,040 So I think that we have to meet them along that 497 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:37,540 spectrum. And just keeping in mind, 498 00:30:37,540 --> 00:30:42,280 are we perpetuating the problem or are we help at least inching away from 499 00:30:42,940 --> 00:30:43,600 the problem, 500 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:48,160 the unhealthy toxic diet culture patterns. 501 00:30:49,660 --> 00:30:53,830 Thank you so much for having this conversation with me today, Katey. Thank you, 502 00:30:53,830 --> 00:30:56,470 Michelle. Thanks for having me. And thank you all for listening. 503 00:30:56,470 --> 00:31:00,340 It's not like we have the answers all the time. I just want to air it out, 504 00:31:00,340 --> 00:31:01,510 want to air this issue out. 505 00:31:01,510 --> 00:31:06,130 So we love your comments and your feedback inside of our Health Coach Power 506 00:31:06,130 --> 00:31:07,510 Community Facebook group. 507 00:31:07,900 --> 00:31:11,770 And this episode has been brought to you by Healthy Profit University, 508 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,310 where we help health coaches build profitable businesses, 509 00:31:15,670 --> 00:31:18,460 even if you're just starting out, even if you're not tech savvy. 510 00:31:18,580 --> 00:31:21,070 And you can get our free Healthy Profit University 511 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,510 Blueprint at healthcoachpower.com/blueprint 512 00:31:26,020 --> 00:31:28,860 and we'll see you next time. Bye everyone. Bye.