1 00:00:08,258 --> 00:00:10,552 We recognize change. 2 00:00:10,552 --> 00:00:13,179 Wonder about change, are uncertain about 3 00:00:13,179 --> 00:00:16,224 change, and often resistant to change. 4 00:00:16,391 --> 00:00:19,769 Truth be told, we have a love hate relationship with it. 5 00:00:20,145 --> 00:00:22,230 Our guest today wants us to embrace it. 6 00:00:22,230 --> 00:00:24,816 To harness it into a force for success. 7 00:00:24,816 --> 00:00:28,403 If change is coming, we need a firm foundation 8 00:00:28,403 --> 00:00:31,406 upon which to make change work for us. 9 00:00:31,865 --> 00:00:33,283 That's why we're here today. 10 00:00:33,283 --> 00:00:34,325 I'm glad you're here. 11 00:00:34,325 --> 00:00:38,580 So welcome to another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast, 12 00:00:38,830 --> 00:00:42,792 where we are helping leaders grow personally and professionally to lead 13 00:00:43,251 --> 00:00:44,919 more effectively and make a bigger difference 14 00:00:44,919 --> 00:00:47,589 for their teams, organizations, and the world. 15 00:00:47,589 --> 00:00:49,215 If you're listening to this podcast, 16 00:00:49,215 --> 00:00:52,218 you could join us in the future for live episodes on your favorite 17 00:00:52,427 --> 00:00:55,847 social platform where we live stream these and to find out 18 00:00:55,847 --> 00:00:59,893 when we are live streaming them and where we are live streaming them. 19 00:00:59,893 --> 00:01:03,313 You can, join us on our Facebook or LinkedIn groups 20 00:01:03,313 --> 00:01:06,316 to get all of that scoop, all of that skinny 21 00:01:06,441 --> 00:01:10,361 and find out when they're happening, and then also get that information sooner. 22 00:01:10,612 --> 00:01:12,405 So you can go to Facebook. 23 00:01:12,405 --> 00:01:18,787 Remarkable podcast.com/facebook or two remarkable podcast.com/linkedin. 24 00:01:18,787 --> 00:01:22,916 Either one will get you connected and you can join us live in the future. 25 00:01:22,957 --> 00:01:26,920 If you like what you are hearing today and want to help in developing the leaders 26 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:31,841 in your organization, we should talk, reach out to us at info 27 00:01:31,841 --> 00:01:34,844 at Kevin, I can.com and we'll schedule time to learn 28 00:01:34,844 --> 00:01:38,181 about your needs and share how we might help. 29 00:01:38,515 --> 00:01:41,184 And with that, I'm going to bring in my guest. 30 00:01:41,184 --> 00:01:43,394 His name is Patrick Lennon. 31 00:01:43,394 --> 00:01:45,188 He's got the smile on his face. 32 00:01:45,188 --> 00:01:47,315 I've got his book in my hand. 33 00:01:47,315 --> 00:01:50,068 His name is Patrick Lydon, PhD. 34 00:01:50,068 --> 00:01:54,322 He has extensive hand-on, hands on leadership experience in the 82nd 35 00:01:54,322 --> 00:01:57,909 Airborne Division as an Airborne Ranger infantry officer, 36 00:01:58,243 --> 00:01:59,369 and in the private sector 37 00:01:59,369 --> 00:02:03,081 as a senior business consultant at KPMG and Franklin Covey. 38 00:02:03,456 --> 00:02:05,917 He founded and built two successful companies. 39 00:02:05,917 --> 00:02:10,171 He's a speaker, a top ranked podcast host and the author of the Wall Street 40 00:02:10,171 --> 00:02:13,758 Journal bestseller, the five week Leadership Challenge. 41 00:02:14,134 --> 00:02:18,221 35 Action Steps to Become the Leader You Were Meant to Be while on the faculty 42 00:02:18,221 --> 00:02:18,972 at Vanderbilt. 43 00:02:18,972 --> 00:02:22,642 He served as Director of Program for Business Studies 44 00:02:23,017 --> 00:02:26,521 and led the Disruption Project, a multi-year study 45 00:02:27,105 --> 00:02:30,817 of the success of success in the face of disruption, 46 00:02:31,192 --> 00:02:34,445 which led to his new book, Disrupt Everything and Win 47 00:02:34,612 --> 00:02:37,615 Take Control of Your Future, which is coauthored 48 00:02:37,657 --> 00:02:40,368 with James Patterson. 49 00:02:40,368 --> 00:02:43,371 Yes, that James Patterson. 50 00:02:43,371 --> 00:02:45,874 And with that, and we'll get to that maybe in a second. 51 00:02:47,750 --> 00:02:48,585 Patrick, welcome. 52 00:02:48,585 --> 00:02:50,545 Glad you're here. Hey, Kevin, thanks so much for having me. 53 00:02:50,545 --> 00:02:54,132 I wonder how many people are on a podcast right now with James Patterson going, 54 00:02:54,340 --> 00:02:56,759 and he wrote a book with Patrick Lennon. 55 00:02:56,759 --> 00:02:58,761 Yes, that Patrick Lennon. 56 00:02:58,761 --> 00:03:01,764 I'm guessing zero. 57 00:03:02,015 --> 00:03:03,433 I don't know exactly. 58 00:03:03,433 --> 00:03:06,936 I mean, I don't know that I'm going to get I'm going to just guess, 59 00:03:08,354 --> 00:03:10,231 we'll get to the James Patterson 60 00:03:10,231 --> 00:03:13,234 piece here in a second. 61 00:03:13,276 --> 00:03:16,404 And I guess we should say what you told me before we started, which is this 62 00:03:16,404 --> 00:03:19,699 book is now on The New York Times, this New York Times bestseller list. 63 00:03:20,033 --> 00:03:22,785 It's pretty darn exciting. 64 00:03:22,785 --> 00:03:25,705 And so we're super glad that you're here. 65 00:03:25,705 --> 00:03:26,497 Let's start here. 66 00:03:26,497 --> 00:03:29,584 Patrick, what's the big idea of the book? 67 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:32,503 I think ultimately, the big idea of the book is 68 00:03:32,503 --> 00:03:35,882 if you want to live a good life or build a great team, people listening 69 00:03:35,882 --> 00:03:38,259 right now to maybe they're leading a team or leading an organization. 70 00:03:38,259 --> 00:03:40,470 They want to build a great team, a great organization. 71 00:03:40,470 --> 00:03:41,721 There's two things you have to do. 72 00:03:41,721 --> 00:03:44,015 One is you have to define what that greatness looks like. 73 00:03:44,015 --> 00:03:46,184 We call it the fire inside. Like, why are you here? 74 00:03:46,184 --> 00:03:47,894 What's the purpose of your team? 75 00:03:47,894 --> 00:03:49,646 But then the second part is you have to deliver on that. 76 00:03:49,646 --> 00:03:53,566 Kevin, and you have to deliver on that in the face of all the curveballs 77 00:03:53,566 --> 00:03:56,569 that get thrown your way, whether it's a customer concern, 78 00:03:56,819 --> 00:04:00,615 a breakdown in a manufacturing facility, meetings keep getting canceled, 79 00:04:01,199 --> 00:04:04,327 new technology, whatever it might be small, big, and everything in between. 80 00:04:04,369 --> 00:04:06,996 How do you stay on that path and actually realize 81 00:04:06,996 --> 00:04:10,667 that some of those disruptions, in fact, many of them might be fertile ground 82 00:04:10,667 --> 00:04:13,670 for innovation and progress toward that fire inside your team. 83 00:04:15,713 --> 00:04:18,549 So that whole that whole, 84 00:04:18,549 --> 00:04:20,969 description never used the word 85 00:04:20,969 --> 00:04:24,347 disruption, which is, I think what led to the book in a way. 86 00:04:24,347 --> 00:04:27,016 So let's talk about that. I entered that in the open. 87 00:04:27,016 --> 00:04:30,019 Like what sort of led to the book, 88 00:04:30,436 --> 00:04:32,772 and the ideas that are in it. 89 00:04:32,772 --> 00:04:34,857 So I was teaching you, as you said, at Vanderbilt, 90 00:04:34,857 --> 00:04:37,235 I spent the last 12 years as a professor at Vanderbilt, 91 00:04:37,235 --> 00:04:40,738 and one of the classes I taught that actually came out of Covid 92 00:04:41,030 --> 00:04:43,741 was a class called Leading Business Through Times of Crisis. 93 00:04:43,741 --> 00:04:46,536 It seems so fitting, right, that a book comes out of Covid 94 00:04:46,536 --> 00:04:47,954 called Leading to Crisis. 95 00:04:47,954 --> 00:04:51,833 And the reason it came out is because when Covid hit, every organization, people 96 00:04:51,874 --> 00:04:52,750 listening right now, 97 00:04:52,750 --> 00:04:55,503 their organizations were scrambling like, what are we going to do? 98 00:04:55,503 --> 00:04:57,755 Who can come to work? Who's essential? What is essential mean? 99 00:04:57,755 --> 00:04:58,965 How do all of these type of things 100 00:04:58,965 --> 00:05:01,175 and still serve customers and all that type of stuff? 101 00:05:01,175 --> 00:05:02,677 Same thing at the University. 102 00:05:02,677 --> 00:05:06,014 So there was a note that came out from leadership at the university saying, hey, 103 00:05:06,597 --> 00:05:10,268 we have to go online and we don't teach online usually here at Vanderbilt, 104 00:05:10,268 --> 00:05:12,895 and we need some bigger classes, which we don't typically do. 105 00:05:12,895 --> 00:05:17,275 Any professors willing to teach a class to 100 students online? 106 00:05:17,317 --> 00:05:18,609 Send us your proposal. 107 00:05:18,609 --> 00:05:21,029 And I was like, ding ding ding, that's opportunity. 108 00:05:21,029 --> 00:05:23,781 So I sent a proposal in saying, I want to teach this class. 109 00:05:23,781 --> 00:05:25,658 I'm leading business through crisis. 110 00:05:25,658 --> 00:05:26,784 When Covid kind of 111 00:05:27,744 --> 00:05:30,163 let's say, I will say, I don't want to say pass completely. 112 00:05:30,163 --> 00:05:32,498 But when we started going back into class and kind of getting back 113 00:05:32,498 --> 00:05:35,752 into some semblance of new normality, the course continued 114 00:05:36,044 --> 00:05:38,254 and we decided to do one section every semester. 115 00:05:38,254 --> 00:05:40,006 That was very guest speaker driven. 116 00:05:40,006 --> 00:05:42,550 So folks listening right now are Kevin, as we talk, 117 00:05:42,550 --> 00:05:45,345 imagine you're sitting in a room with 24 other students. 118 00:05:45,345 --> 00:05:46,679 There's 25 of you in the room. 119 00:05:46,679 --> 00:05:48,264 You're like a sophomore in college or something. 120 00:05:48,264 --> 00:05:52,018 And in walks the chairman at the time of American Airlines, Doug Parker, 121 00:05:52,185 --> 00:05:55,146 and the president of the Flight Attendant Association, Sarah Nelson. 122 00:05:55,146 --> 00:05:55,605 The two of them 123 00:05:55,605 --> 00:05:58,608 come in together in person and sit down and talk about labor and management, 124 00:05:58,941 --> 00:06:00,818 how they work through times of crisis. 125 00:06:00,818 --> 00:06:02,028 It was that type of guest speaker. 126 00:06:02,028 --> 00:06:03,821 So really unique experience. 127 00:06:03,821 --> 00:06:06,824 And one of the guest speakers at joining us was a guy named James Patterson. 128 00:06:07,033 --> 00:06:10,036 James Patterson has his master's in English literature from Vanderbilt. 129 00:06:10,328 --> 00:06:12,580 He decided to come back and talk to a group of students. 130 00:06:12,580 --> 00:06:15,333 And he started with the question, are you living a good life? 131 00:06:16,376 --> 00:06:17,668 And he let it sit for a moment. 132 00:06:17,668 --> 00:06:19,420 He said, you know, I hope you are. 133 00:06:19,420 --> 00:06:21,422 Here's how I went about living my good life. 134 00:06:21,422 --> 00:06:24,425 And he titled the presentation The Power of Disruption. 135 00:06:24,717 --> 00:06:27,095 And people don't necessarily know this enormous an author. 136 00:06:27,095 --> 00:06:30,098 And if you're not familiar, some folks just walk into a bookstore. 137 00:06:30,765 --> 00:06:34,811 He saw about 475 million book copies at this point. 138 00:06:35,603 --> 00:06:37,897 And he's created some really well known characters over the years. 139 00:06:37,897 --> 00:06:39,941 But he started off in advertising. 140 00:06:39,941 --> 00:06:41,567 He was the youngest creative director at J. 141 00:06:41,567 --> 00:06:43,653 Walter Thompson became the youngest president of J. 142 00:06:43,653 --> 00:06:47,323 Walter Thompson, and then he quit that to focus on writing. 143 00:06:47,323 --> 00:06:48,616 He disrupted himself. 144 00:06:48,616 --> 00:06:51,702 And then when he got into writing, he literally kind of disrupted the industry. 145 00:06:51,702 --> 00:06:52,912 In fact, that's not me saying it. 146 00:06:52,912 --> 00:06:56,916 Publishers weekly said that, James Patterson's forever changed, publishing 147 00:06:57,083 --> 00:07:00,086 multiple authors, multiple genres, multiple books a year. 148 00:07:00,461 --> 00:07:03,589 And by the time it was all over with, I'm like, that's a really interesting topic. 149 00:07:03,589 --> 00:07:05,299 I'd love to do something with on that, 150 00:07:05,299 --> 00:07:07,301 kind of on that kind of do some research on it. 151 00:07:07,301 --> 00:07:08,719 So that started a, 152 00:07:08,719 --> 00:07:11,556 but a 4 or 5 year partnership for them right now, where I ran a three year 153 00:07:11,556 --> 00:07:13,057 project interviewing 154 00:07:13,057 --> 00:07:15,977 hundreds of people to understand their positive disrupter story. 155 00:07:17,019 --> 00:07:17,895 And we're going to get to that idea 156 00:07:17,895 --> 00:07:21,899 of the positive positive disrupter loop and the stories there in a minute. 157 00:07:22,525 --> 00:07:24,735 But I want to get at this idea. 158 00:07:24,735 --> 00:07:26,779 I mean, I sort of teased it in the open. 159 00:07:26,779 --> 00:07:28,072 I used the word change. 160 00:07:28,072 --> 00:07:29,615 I didn't use the word disruption, 161 00:07:29,615 --> 00:07:32,618 just like you didn't when you first started talking about the book. 162 00:07:33,035 --> 00:07:36,330 And yet we when we hear that word, 163 00:07:37,123 --> 00:07:40,668 like there are words that are around the word change that, 164 00:07:41,711 --> 00:07:43,629 that we might frame more positively. 165 00:07:43,629 --> 00:07:43,963 Right? 166 00:07:43,963 --> 00:07:48,426 Like, like progress that's changed for the better. 167 00:07:48,426 --> 00:07:53,181 But when we hear the word disruption, our first reaction probably isn't 168 00:07:53,890 --> 00:07:56,893 positive. So, 169 00:07:57,935 --> 00:08:00,813 I was thinking about the fact that in a way, in a way, 170 00:08:00,813 --> 00:08:03,816 this idea of disruption 171 00:08:04,275 --> 00:08:08,446 is a disruptive idea, the way that you and James have gone at it. 172 00:08:08,821 --> 00:08:12,366 You've disrupted our pattern of thinking about the word. 173 00:08:12,366 --> 00:08:14,243 Can you first of all, do you agree? 174 00:08:14,243 --> 00:08:15,995 And second of all, what would you say about that? 175 00:08:15,995 --> 00:08:17,121 I think we have. 176 00:08:17,121 --> 00:08:18,706 I actually was talking to my dad, 177 00:08:18,706 --> 00:08:21,083 who's 94 years old, when I was working on this project, 178 00:08:21,083 --> 00:08:23,836 you know, and, you know, your. Dad is, I guess. 179 00:08:23,836 --> 00:08:24,212 Yeah. 180 00:08:24,212 --> 00:08:26,380 Yeah, you do is in his early 90s, right? 181 00:08:26,380 --> 00:08:28,633 I'm talking about this project. He's like disruption. 182 00:08:28,633 --> 00:08:30,551 That's a horrible thing. Why would you write about disruption? 183 00:08:30,551 --> 00:08:33,596 So he even has that visceral, visceral response to it. 184 00:08:33,596 --> 00:08:35,056 But yeah, we tried to say, 185 00:08:35,056 --> 00:08:36,974 hey, we're not the first people to write about disruption. 186 00:08:36,974 --> 00:08:40,102 We just want to own it in a different way and give people some permission 187 00:08:40,102 --> 00:08:41,187 to think about it differently. 188 00:08:41,187 --> 00:08:43,231 So when we talk about disruption, 189 00:08:43,231 --> 00:08:46,275 we recognize that many people are like, I want to avoid that. 190 00:08:46,275 --> 00:08:47,443 That blows stuff up. 191 00:08:47,443 --> 00:08:49,904 It's scary. It's fearful, it's anxious. You're right. 192 00:08:49,904 --> 00:08:52,156 Or I want to ignore it and hope it goes away. 193 00:08:52,156 --> 00:08:53,866 And what we want to say is, you know what? 194 00:08:53,866 --> 00:08:55,326 Yeah, there's there's some disruptions 195 00:08:55,326 --> 00:08:57,161 that are definitely things you wouldn't want to have happen. 196 00:08:57,161 --> 00:08:58,412 And we write about some of those in the book. 197 00:08:58,412 --> 00:09:00,456 You wouldn't wish them on your worst enemy. 198 00:09:00,456 --> 00:09:04,210 But inside many of those, many of those disruptions, there's fertile ground. 199 00:09:04,502 --> 00:09:07,255 And sometimes it's fertile ground to go toward change, 200 00:09:07,255 --> 00:09:10,258 and sometimes it's fertile ground to double down on what you're already doing. 201 00:09:10,424 --> 00:09:12,843 But we want people to make a conscious decision to do that. 202 00:09:13,928 --> 00:09:16,389 You know, Patrick, the older I get, 203 00:09:16,389 --> 00:09:19,392 and I read most of the book, and I certainly read the part 204 00:09:19,392 --> 00:09:21,185 about your mom and your dad, and that's why 205 00:09:21,185 --> 00:09:24,188 I made the comment about not knowing your dad. 206 00:09:24,188 --> 00:09:26,774 You know, one of the one of the disruptions in 207 00:09:26,774 --> 00:09:28,985 my life is when I lost my father. Right. 208 00:09:28,985 --> 00:09:32,196 And and when I think about all of the dominoes 209 00:09:32,196 --> 00:09:35,950 that have fallen since then and all of the magical and marvelous 210 00:09:35,950 --> 00:09:39,704 things that have happened in my life since then, many of them 211 00:09:39,704 --> 00:09:41,998 that would never have happened if dad was alive. 212 00:09:41,998 --> 00:09:45,084 It doesn't mean I'm glad he's not here. 213 00:09:45,126 --> 00:09:45,418 Right. 214 00:09:45,418 --> 00:09:49,213 But it's it's it gets at that point, I think the older I get, the more 215 00:09:49,213 --> 00:09:53,384 I realize that that point that there's 216 00:09:53,718 --> 00:09:56,345 there's fertile opportunity 217 00:09:56,345 --> 00:09:59,348 in the disruption, but not unless we look. 218 00:09:59,765 --> 00:10:01,934 And I know we'll talk more about that in a minute. 219 00:10:01,934 --> 00:10:02,852 Yeah. You're, you're you're right. 220 00:10:02,852 --> 00:10:05,855 I mean, life life teaches us so many lessons over time, doesn't it? 221 00:10:06,105 --> 00:10:09,442 And, and one of those is that you start to gain a bit of perspective 222 00:10:10,026 --> 00:10:11,527 about certain things. 223 00:10:11,527 --> 00:10:13,613 For sure. For sure. So, 224 00:10:15,865 --> 00:10:16,449 you and I were 225 00:10:16,449 --> 00:10:19,452 talking before I hit the Let's Go Live button. 226 00:10:20,536 --> 00:10:24,457 And I said, I want to talk a little bit about the fact 227 00:10:24,457 --> 00:10:29,754 that I see this book as a life skill book, but we're on a podcast about leadership. 228 00:10:29,754 --> 00:10:31,881 It really is about both, in a way. 229 00:10:31,881 --> 00:10:34,884 But how would you frame that, this idea, 230 00:10:35,259 --> 00:10:38,262 as both a leadership skill as well as a life skill? 231 00:10:38,804 --> 00:10:39,430 Well, I would 232 00:10:39,430 --> 00:10:42,475 I would put my arms around all of that and say, yeah, I think it is all of this. 233 00:10:42,475 --> 00:10:44,185 First of all, I think we are all leaders. 234 00:10:44,185 --> 00:10:46,395 We lead our we choose to lead ourselves. 235 00:10:46,395 --> 00:10:47,438 That's a choice we can make. 236 00:10:47,438 --> 00:10:49,774 And within that there's some life skill components to it. 237 00:10:49,774 --> 00:10:53,319 But on the other hand is, if we're in a more formal leadership role at work 238 00:10:53,569 --> 00:10:56,781 or we're doing a lot of influence without a formal title, 239 00:10:57,031 --> 00:10:59,158 or we're somewhere along kind of the scale of leadership, 240 00:10:59,158 --> 00:10:59,950 whether it's, you know, 241 00:10:59,950 --> 00:11:02,995 first level leader, mid-level leader, executive leader, whatever it might be. 242 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:08,000 Leadership is a relationship game. 243 00:11:08,584 --> 00:11:09,960 And I don't say game lightly. 244 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:11,837 And we're going to manipulate people. 245 00:11:11,837 --> 00:11:14,632 I'm just saying, like, if you don't realize that the people 246 00:11:14,632 --> 00:11:18,010 around you truly matter and the ability to negotiate, 247 00:11:18,386 --> 00:11:22,264 negotiate their relationships with them in positive ways that are helpful to both, 248 00:11:22,598 --> 00:11:24,183 you're kind of missing that boat. 249 00:11:24,183 --> 00:11:28,354 It isn't all about just the, the financial numbers and the scoreboards. 250 00:11:28,354 --> 00:11:29,146 Yes. Those matter. 251 00:11:29,146 --> 00:11:31,065 If you don't take care of those, you're not going to have 252 00:11:31,065 --> 00:11:33,609 a business necessarily, or an organization. 253 00:11:33,609 --> 00:11:34,443 But at the same time, 254 00:11:34,443 --> 00:11:36,112 as much as you want to expect great results, 255 00:11:36,112 --> 00:11:38,197 you also have to care a lot about the people. 256 00:11:38,197 --> 00:11:40,825 And I would say that the things that we talk about in the book 257 00:11:40,825 --> 00:11:44,495 will help you negotiate, navigate your way through your personal 258 00:11:44,495 --> 00:11:47,623 relationships, your business relationships, your own journey in life. 259 00:11:47,623 --> 00:11:50,334 And I just look at it as we have a whole life. 260 00:11:50,334 --> 00:11:52,002 We don't have this compartmentalize. 261 00:11:52,002 --> 00:11:55,005 Leave your leave your personal life in the parking lot anymore. 262 00:11:55,089 --> 00:11:56,590 Or vice versa. 263 00:11:56,590 --> 00:11:57,925 Yeah, I would agree. 264 00:11:57,925 --> 00:12:02,263 And, you know, I wrote a long time ago in one of my books, something along 265 00:12:02,263 --> 00:12:05,683 the lines of, as we become a better leader, we become a better human, 266 00:12:06,726 --> 00:12:07,977 and vice versa. 267 00:12:07,977 --> 00:12:08,227 It's just 268 00:12:08,227 --> 00:12:11,355 another way of saying what you said, that they're connected and we we really 269 00:12:12,022 --> 00:12:15,735 if we try to pull them apart, we're actually hurting ourselves. 270 00:12:15,735 --> 00:12:16,193 Oh, yeah. 271 00:12:16,193 --> 00:12:17,945 I've done it to the detriment myself and I. 272 00:12:17,945 --> 00:12:18,863 When my wife and I owned 273 00:12:18,863 --> 00:12:22,616 our first business together, I really got sideways on this where I. 274 00:12:23,534 --> 00:12:26,954 She was my wife, but also looked at her as my business partner, my colleague, 275 00:12:26,954 --> 00:12:30,458 and I don't think I was able to separate those roles really well in my mind, 276 00:12:30,458 --> 00:12:33,043 because we had so much pressure of business and things like that. 277 00:12:33,043 --> 00:12:36,005 And ultimately it came to the detriment to the relationship. 278 00:12:36,005 --> 00:12:37,673 I mean, we we navigated our way through it. 279 00:12:37,673 --> 00:12:41,135 We had some rough years, and part of that was just not recognizing 280 00:12:41,469 --> 00:12:43,596 the relationships and the importance of those relationships. 281 00:12:43,596 --> 00:12:45,848 So I was talking to somebody recently. 282 00:12:45,848 --> 00:12:48,851 They're talking about as a leader in an organization, 283 00:12:48,893 --> 00:12:51,270 you have to recognize that the people that you lead are going home 284 00:12:51,270 --> 00:12:54,398 and talking about you around the dinner table, you know, what are they saying? 285 00:12:54,398 --> 00:12:55,941 And are you okay with that? 286 00:12:55,941 --> 00:12:59,820 And, you know, because, because, because our lives are so integrated. 287 00:13:01,655 --> 00:13:03,073 And I think that's really 288 00:13:03,073 --> 00:13:06,076 always been true, but never more than. No. 289 00:13:06,452 --> 00:13:07,828 No, I think in a couple ways. 290 00:13:07,828 --> 00:13:10,039 One is that, 291 00:13:10,039 --> 00:13:11,707 one is something like Covid. 292 00:13:11,707 --> 00:13:13,459 All of a sudden, so many people, especially people, 293 00:13:13,459 --> 00:13:16,629 had the luxury of working on zoom, which you may not have felt 294 00:13:16,629 --> 00:13:19,632 like a luxury at the time, but folks, it was because you were in your home. 295 00:13:19,632 --> 00:13:22,635 You were safe even though you were isolated, which was very tough. 296 00:13:23,219 --> 00:13:26,013 But people started to get a little look into everybody else's lives a bit, 297 00:13:26,013 --> 00:13:28,349 which was interesting, and all of a sudden made it okay for the kid 298 00:13:28,349 --> 00:13:31,227 to walk behind the screen type of thing, which I think is wonderful. 299 00:13:31,227 --> 00:13:33,562 At the same time, we had this big disruption going on. 300 00:13:33,562 --> 00:13:35,648 I'm sure you've heard about it in your part of the world and everybody 301 00:13:35,648 --> 00:13:38,734 listening called AI, and everybody's talking about AI right now. 302 00:13:38,734 --> 00:13:39,443 Yeah, yeah. 303 00:13:39,443 --> 00:13:40,820 It's like I never heard of that. What's that? 304 00:13:40,820 --> 00:13:44,031 It I've noticed in the last, in the last few weeks 305 00:13:44,198 --> 00:13:44,865 since we launched 306 00:13:44,865 --> 00:13:46,325 the book, I've been in lots of different places, 307 00:13:46,325 --> 00:13:48,994 talking to lots of different audiences, and I will come up with different times. 308 00:13:48,994 --> 00:13:50,412 And I'm not a futurist. 309 00:13:50,412 --> 00:13:54,166 And as James Patterson would say, he said on the satellite cable program 310 00:13:54,166 --> 00:13:55,960 the other day we were on, he said, 311 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,420 anybody who comes on here and tells you what what AI is going to do in 312 00:13:58,420 --> 00:14:01,215 the future is full baloney. You know, nobody really knows what it's going to do. 313 00:14:01,215 --> 00:14:02,758 We just know it's changing things. 314 00:14:02,758 --> 00:14:06,679 But I think that as much as we talk about AI and people are concerned about AI, 315 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,014 it's disrupting my life. It's disrupting my job. 316 00:14:09,014 --> 00:14:10,432 It might take away my career, 317 00:14:10,432 --> 00:14:12,226 all of those type of things where at the same time, 318 00:14:12,226 --> 00:14:12,768 having some really 319 00:14:12,768 --> 00:14:16,438 interesting conversations about what does it mean to be human right now, 320 00:14:16,814 --> 00:14:19,775 which I think is that is a really interesting thing, 321 00:14:19,775 --> 00:14:23,445 because if we fast forward at the rate we're going in the next 10 to 15 years, 322 00:14:23,445 --> 00:14:26,574 we're probably talking more about what it means to be a human than humankind 323 00:14:26,574 --> 00:14:29,577 has throughout history, which I think is really interesting as well. 324 00:14:29,994 --> 00:14:32,288 Well, it's like the it's 325 00:14:33,914 --> 00:14:36,375 we're going to get to some of this stuff later. 326 00:14:36,375 --> 00:14:40,629 When you talk about the the tension between change and stability. 327 00:14:40,963 --> 00:14:44,008 And when I think about that comment, that's what that's 328 00:14:44,008 --> 00:14:46,510 what makes me think about in my latest book, Flexible Leadership. 329 00:14:46,510 --> 00:14:50,347 We talk about tensions between things and and I think the tension 330 00:14:50,347 --> 00:14:54,310 between stability and change, is one that we have to really think about. 331 00:14:54,310 --> 00:15:00,065 And it gets us in part at this idea of disruption as a positive. 332 00:15:00,441 --> 00:15:03,235 How do we use it to take control of our future 333 00:15:03,235 --> 00:15:06,238 in when there are many things that we can't control? 334 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,910 And so let's talk about this idea, of the positive, excuse me? 335 00:15:10,910 --> 00:15:13,913 The positive disrupter loop. 336 00:15:15,039 --> 00:15:17,541 There's one of the five pieces I want to really dive into, 337 00:15:17,541 --> 00:15:20,461 but I'll let you just outline the the five for a second. 338 00:15:20,461 --> 00:15:21,795 Sure. 339 00:15:21,795 --> 00:15:26,091 So as we went out and studied this, we did a lot of qualitative interviews. 340 00:15:26,091 --> 00:15:27,676 And Kevin, you and I were chatting beforehand. 341 00:15:27,676 --> 00:15:30,304 You've done like 500 interviews over the course of time. 342 00:15:30,304 --> 00:15:34,266 And our conversations as you said, you know, each of those takes time, right? 343 00:15:34,266 --> 00:15:36,602 You have to set them up. You have to go do them. 344 00:15:36,602 --> 00:15:39,313 Hours were usually an hour or two hour and a half long with each person. 345 00:15:39,313 --> 00:15:40,272 Then we came back from it. 346 00:15:40,272 --> 00:15:42,608 You pull out the transcript and then you have to code the transcript. 347 00:15:42,608 --> 00:15:45,277 You figure out, okay, what are the similarities? Where are the differences? 348 00:15:45,277 --> 00:15:47,696 Is there a trend or something we can pull from this? 349 00:15:47,696 --> 00:15:49,448 And one thing we started to realize is that 350 00:15:50,950 --> 00:15:52,242 the disruptors that we were 351 00:15:52,242 --> 00:15:55,329 studying would follow a very consistent process 352 00:15:55,329 --> 00:15:58,332 of how they would kind of react to respond to disruption. 353 00:15:58,374 --> 00:15:59,416 The first step is they would 354 00:15:59,416 --> 00:16:02,419 the disruption would happen and they wouldn't just react to it. 355 00:16:02,544 --> 00:16:05,172 They would do what we call discern, which is you 356 00:16:05,172 --> 00:16:08,425 step back and you say, okay, this thing is just happened. 357 00:16:08,425 --> 00:16:10,844 The doctor just gave me this, 358 00:16:10,844 --> 00:16:12,179 result of my medical test. 359 00:16:12,179 --> 00:16:13,806 I didn't expect that. 360 00:16:13,806 --> 00:16:16,183 My boss just offered me this new cool project 361 00:16:16,183 --> 00:16:19,186 I could work on, which is cool, but it's scary at the same time. 362 00:16:19,353 --> 00:16:22,106 My team just told me this customer is dealing with this issue. 363 00:16:22,106 --> 00:16:23,857 We're just going through an organizational change. 364 00:16:23,857 --> 00:16:25,693 Senior leadership. Do you folks, you get it. 365 00:16:25,693 --> 00:16:27,194 All these different things, right? 366 00:16:27,194 --> 00:16:28,028 And then what they didn't do is 367 00:16:28,028 --> 00:16:31,240 they didn't just react right away and do, but they felt like they wanted to do. 368 00:16:32,616 --> 00:16:33,367 They step back 369 00:16:33,367 --> 00:16:36,412 and they said, okay, what role should I take out and what should I do? 370 00:16:36,412 --> 00:16:37,496 Should I lead out that? 371 00:16:37,496 --> 00:16:39,540 Should I leave this thing out and blaze a trail? 372 00:16:39,540 --> 00:16:42,543 Should I bring others with me and kind of create a movement toward the change? 373 00:16:42,668 --> 00:16:45,045 Should I say that change is interesting, but not right now? 374 00:16:45,045 --> 00:16:48,215 I'm going to pull back and actually double down on what we're already doing. 375 00:16:48,340 --> 00:16:50,634 Should I take some time to gather some more information? 376 00:16:50,634 --> 00:16:53,303 So we talk about these five different roles you can take on. 377 00:16:53,303 --> 00:16:56,181 And I'll just say really quickly, as you're thinking about these roles, 378 00:16:56,181 --> 00:16:58,058 is what people start to realize when they read the book. 379 00:16:58,058 --> 00:17:00,185 And we realize in the research and we all kind of know 380 00:17:00,185 --> 00:17:02,479 this from being children, actually, I'll get to that in just a moment. 381 00:17:02,479 --> 00:17:07,359 But sometimes the most disruptive thing you can do in the face of a disruption 382 00:17:07,943 --> 00:17:10,779 is to actually say no to the change it's brain, and actually 383 00:17:10,779 --> 00:17:13,991 to go into what you really feels like, our deeper purpose. 384 00:17:14,533 --> 00:17:15,951 And that's two things about that. 385 00:17:15,951 --> 00:17:18,787 One is it's kind of surprising because you think, oh, he's saying 386 00:17:18,787 --> 00:17:19,455 disrupt everything. 387 00:17:19,455 --> 00:17:20,956 That means he wants you to change everything. 388 00:17:20,956 --> 00:17:23,292 And I'm saying, no, I want you to own it and think about it. 389 00:17:23,292 --> 00:17:25,044 And sometimes you're going to say, you know what? 390 00:17:25,044 --> 00:17:27,588 Every store is doing this, but that's not who our store is. 391 00:17:27,588 --> 00:17:28,630 We're not going to do that. 392 00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:30,966 Or every team is going this direction. We're not going to go that direction. 393 00:17:30,966 --> 00:17:35,262 So the freedom to kind of make that choice is really critical as well. 394 00:17:35,262 --> 00:17:37,848 So understanding that some of the times the most disruptive things you can do it. 395 00:17:37,848 --> 00:17:40,434 I said as a child, we get this because when we were kids, 396 00:17:40,434 --> 00:17:42,895 we all had those moments where you're out with a group of friends 397 00:17:42,895 --> 00:17:45,397 and they decide they want to go do something that you feel like 398 00:17:45,397 --> 00:17:48,609 I'm not supposed to do that, or that's not right, or that's not the kids. 399 00:17:48,609 --> 00:17:49,902 We are the group. We are. 400 00:17:49,902 --> 00:17:52,613 And when you tell all your friends, no, I'm not going to do that. 401 00:17:52,613 --> 00:17:54,865 And they all turn and look at you 402 00:17:54,865 --> 00:17:57,659 sometimes that's like the most disruptive thing you could do. 403 00:17:57,659 --> 00:17:59,453 So the first step is discerned in the loop. 404 00:17:59,453 --> 00:18:01,830 The second step is behave. 405 00:18:01,830 --> 00:18:05,167 And as we went out and we studied, positive disruptors, 406 00:18:05,167 --> 00:18:08,170 we started to realize there's a number of strengths that they have 407 00:18:08,796 --> 00:18:12,216 that they oftentimes leverage in the face of disruption. 408 00:18:12,216 --> 00:18:13,675 There's actually 16 strengths. 409 00:18:13,675 --> 00:18:15,636 So here's the here's the key thing on this. 410 00:18:15,636 --> 00:18:17,221 There's 16 strengths. 411 00:18:17,221 --> 00:18:19,056 Nobody had them all nailed down. 412 00:18:19,056 --> 00:18:20,641 Nobody was great at all of these things. 413 00:18:20,641 --> 00:18:22,267 Some people were more visionary. 414 00:18:22,267 --> 00:18:24,228 Some people were more roll up your sleeves type. 415 00:18:24,228 --> 00:18:27,231 Some people were more like, I'm going to stand firm when people tell me I can't. 416 00:18:27,314 --> 00:18:29,483 And they or some people can push past the butterflies. 417 00:18:29,483 --> 00:18:32,236 These are some of the strengths. They leaned into their strengths. 418 00:18:32,236 --> 00:18:34,780 So the nice part is for people who are listening or watching. 419 00:18:34,780 --> 00:18:37,741 If they are leading a team inside an organization, 420 00:18:37,741 --> 00:18:39,701 you don't have to have all these things. 421 00:18:39,701 --> 00:18:40,744 You have team members. 422 00:18:40,744 --> 00:18:41,912 Maybe you're more visionary. 423 00:18:41,912 --> 00:18:44,832 Maybe somebody is better at like looking at brutal reality. 424 00:18:44,832 --> 00:18:46,333 Maybe you're not as good at, 425 00:18:46,333 --> 00:18:49,336 trusting your instincts sometimes, but you have people around you who can. 426 00:18:49,545 --> 00:18:51,672 So the nice part is you can start playing off each other. 427 00:18:51,672 --> 00:18:52,881 And that's what these people did as well. 428 00:18:52,881 --> 00:18:56,176 I mean, great teams are complementary where the weakness of one 429 00:18:56,176 --> 00:18:57,928 are made irrelevant by the strengths of others. 430 00:18:57,928 --> 00:18:59,471 So let's leverage that. 431 00:18:59,471 --> 00:19:00,848 Then the next step in the process, 432 00:19:00,848 --> 00:19:04,893 you go from to discern, to behave, to achieve and achieve. 433 00:19:04,893 --> 00:19:08,230 In the book we talked predominantly about the levels of impact you can have. 434 00:19:08,605 --> 00:19:11,525 You can impact your family, you can impact your relationships, you can 435 00:19:11,525 --> 00:19:15,195 impact your team, your organization, your industry, really society. 436 00:19:15,904 --> 00:19:16,446 We have partners 437 00:19:16,446 --> 00:19:20,075 at a company called Franklin Covey that built a course based upon the book. 438 00:19:20,367 --> 00:19:22,578 And in the course they really spend time in this achieve 439 00:19:22,578 --> 00:19:24,079 step, helping people realize, like, 440 00:19:24,079 --> 00:19:25,956 how do I create a vision of what's possible 441 00:19:25,956 --> 00:19:28,709 in the face of this disruption and rapidly prototype? 442 00:19:28,709 --> 00:19:31,545 I loved how they dove even deeper into that idea. 443 00:19:31,545 --> 00:19:32,212 So achievements. 444 00:19:32,212 --> 00:19:35,257 Really realizing that, especially in today's world 445 00:19:35,632 --> 00:19:39,469 because of technology, if nothing else, we have the ability to disrupt ourselves. 446 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,472 Like I go to the doctor and I get a medical, 447 00:19:42,472 --> 00:19:45,559 result that I don't like, so I start to change the way I kind of my health, 448 00:19:46,518 --> 00:19:49,396 you know, intake of calories and movement and all those type of things. 449 00:19:49,396 --> 00:19:50,772 I disrupt myself. 450 00:19:50,772 --> 00:19:52,858 And then by that very nature, all of a sudden, people around me 451 00:19:52,858 --> 00:19:54,818 are going, boy, Patrick, you look a little better. 452 00:19:54,818 --> 00:19:55,527 What do you been doing? 453 00:19:55,527 --> 00:19:57,487 I say, well, I'm not eating this and I'm doing that work. 454 00:19:57,487 --> 00:19:58,697 And they start to do it. 455 00:19:58,697 --> 00:20:01,033 And then all of a sudden somebody comes along, says, we write a book on that. 456 00:20:01,033 --> 00:20:03,410 And then all of a sudden you got a YouTube channel, you got all these things. 457 00:20:03,410 --> 00:20:04,703 I'm saying you disrupt society. 458 00:20:04,703 --> 00:20:07,664 So the point is that we can scale in all sorts of cool ways. 459 00:20:07,664 --> 00:20:10,626 You can have a customer situation you run into 460 00:20:10,626 --> 00:20:13,212 and you go, that's pretty interesting. I've heard that three times. 461 00:20:13,212 --> 00:20:17,007 That's that's just disrupted by thinking for a moment, I'm going to blaze a trail. 462 00:20:17,174 --> 00:20:19,051 I'm going to go try to figure out what's going on here. 463 00:20:19,051 --> 00:20:20,594 I'm going to come and share it with other people, 464 00:20:20,594 --> 00:20:21,553 and then I'm gonna create a movement 465 00:20:21,553 --> 00:20:23,263 across my business that might be a movement 466 00:20:23,263 --> 00:20:25,599 across the industry about how we deal with this issue. 467 00:20:25,599 --> 00:20:28,602 And that's a really interesting time that we live in. 468 00:20:28,810 --> 00:20:32,439 And then the fourth step, so goes, discern, behave, achieve. 469 00:20:32,439 --> 00:20:34,274 And the last step is refine. 470 00:20:34,274 --> 00:20:37,945 And refine is all about the thing that some people just don't do 471 00:20:37,945 --> 00:20:40,781 well sometimes because they feel like they don't have the time to do it, 472 00:20:40,781 --> 00:20:44,034 which is you step back and you say, okay, what did we learn? 473 00:20:44,618 --> 00:20:45,577 What did we do? 474 00:20:45,577 --> 00:20:46,662 What can we do better next? 475 00:20:46,662 --> 00:20:48,705 How can we, how can we apply that? 476 00:20:48,705 --> 00:20:50,832 And we use these kind of four hours in there. 477 00:20:50,832 --> 00:20:55,254 But it's basically review reflect re review reflect revise 478 00:20:55,254 --> 00:20:58,674 and then re commit and when we were studying two people we interviewed, 479 00:20:59,007 --> 00:21:02,469 Kevin and the project were two former Four-Star generals in the Army. 480 00:21:02,678 --> 00:21:04,554 We interviewed Stan McChrystal. 481 00:21:04,554 --> 00:21:05,889 So a lot of people know from the number of books 482 00:21:05,889 --> 00:21:09,393 he's written, and he's also a four star general brand Special Operations Command. 483 00:21:09,393 --> 00:21:11,228 And we interviewed David Petraeus. 484 00:21:11,228 --> 00:21:15,274 And in both cases, we were asking them, why is the military so darn good 485 00:21:16,066 --> 00:21:16,900 at this step? 486 00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:18,944 Why did they do these after action reviews? 487 00:21:18,944 --> 00:21:21,196 I remember when I was in the military, we would do them all the time. 488 00:21:21,196 --> 00:21:24,032 We'd sit down and like brutal honesty, like, here's what went right, 489 00:21:24,032 --> 00:21:26,118 here's what went wrong. You said, you're going to do this. You didn't do it. 490 00:21:26,118 --> 00:21:26,535 What happened? 491 00:21:26,535 --> 00:21:27,494 Let's talk about it. 492 00:21:27,494 --> 00:21:29,621 Not to fix blame, just to fix the problem. 493 00:21:29,621 --> 00:21:32,916 And the answers they gave are so obvious when they said to me, 494 00:21:33,458 --> 00:21:35,627 we do it in the military because the stakes are so high 495 00:21:36,628 --> 00:21:38,714 in somebody's life and limb is at risk. 496 00:21:38,714 --> 00:21:42,301 And I would say based upon what we've studied about disruption, 497 00:21:42,301 --> 00:21:44,386 the stakes are high, too, for all of us. 498 00:21:44,386 --> 00:21:45,846 It may not be a life or limb thing. 499 00:21:45,846 --> 00:21:47,681 Hopefully for me it's not. 500 00:21:47,681 --> 00:21:50,851 But it can be a I only get one chance to be on this team. 501 00:21:51,184 --> 00:21:53,395 I only got one chance to be in this organization. 502 00:21:53,395 --> 00:21:56,398 I only we have one chance right now to listen to this conversation today. 503 00:21:56,773 --> 00:21:58,483 I want to make the most of that. 504 00:21:58,483 --> 00:21:59,860 And that's what we really want people to realize. 505 00:21:59,860 --> 00:22:01,570 The stakes are high. 506 00:22:01,570 --> 00:22:04,781 Not because it's trying to be threatening just because, gosh, there's so many 507 00:22:04,781 --> 00:22:06,908 great opportunities and places we could go. 508 00:22:06,908 --> 00:22:10,329 So that's the disrupted loop and we could talk more about it if you'd like. 509 00:22:10,704 --> 00:22:16,293 So here is one of my observations, which was further 510 00:22:17,669 --> 00:22:19,588 outlined as I listened to you. 511 00:22:19,588 --> 00:22:22,924 I mean, I got it from the book and I got more as I listen to you just now, 512 00:22:23,675 --> 00:22:26,678 I wanted to spend time 513 00:22:26,970 --> 00:22:29,973 today talking about the discernment step. 514 00:22:31,099 --> 00:22:35,937 My insight is that there's something really important, 515 00:22:36,271 --> 00:22:39,399 especially important about the discernment 516 00:22:39,733 --> 00:22:43,695 and refined steps, because those are the things 517 00:22:43,695 --> 00:22:47,616 that are under attack every day in the business world. 518 00:22:47,991 --> 00:22:51,119 That's all about busy. Keep going. Move on. 519 00:22:51,286 --> 00:22:55,457 Both of these require us to do 520 00:22:55,457 --> 00:22:58,460 what most don't. 521 00:22:59,795 --> 00:23:00,796 Agree disagree. 522 00:23:00,796 --> 00:23:02,339 Yeah, I would agree with that because they're 523 00:23:02,339 --> 00:23:05,592 they're the things that people say I can't afford to do that right now. 524 00:23:06,176 --> 00:23:09,429 I have to take action because whenever you hit a moment 525 00:23:09,429 --> 00:23:12,099 that's disruptive, that stops you in your tracks, 526 00:23:12,099 --> 00:23:15,060 whether it's a crisis or cool opportunity, whatever it might be, 527 00:23:16,061 --> 00:23:18,105 the clock starts to tick. 528 00:23:18,105 --> 00:23:20,440 And when you feel that clock ticking, 529 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,443 you feel a desire to move. 530 00:23:23,443 --> 00:23:26,196 And the first step says, don't move. Yet. 531 00:23:26,196 --> 00:23:30,367 The first step says, yes, kind of the slow, fast moment if you slow down. 532 00:23:30,492 --> 00:23:33,412 But the problem is, if you don't slow down, 533 00:23:33,412 --> 00:23:36,998 you have you run the risk of going down the wrong path and wasting energy. 534 00:23:37,416 --> 00:23:39,126 And that's normal. 535 00:23:39,126 --> 00:23:40,627 I mean, late life is not linear. 536 00:23:40,627 --> 00:23:43,547 Work is not linear in many cases, even if you have a great standard 537 00:23:43,547 --> 00:23:46,133 operating procedure, it doesn't always work out in a linear fashion. 538 00:23:46,133 --> 00:23:50,804 Life is full of curves and turns and double backs, and part of the idea 539 00:23:50,804 --> 00:23:52,722 behind the whole idea of looking at disruption 540 00:23:52,722 --> 00:23:54,641 differently is I don't know what's around that curve, 541 00:23:54,641 --> 00:23:56,435 but I'm going to trust it might be something good. 542 00:23:56,435 --> 00:23:59,146 And even if it's not, I'm trusting I can do something with it. 543 00:23:59,146 --> 00:24:01,398 But yeah, the discernment piece takes 544 00:24:01,398 --> 00:24:04,860 time, and it's can be counterintuitive because we have a desire to take action. 545 00:24:05,235 --> 00:24:07,571 I mean, I have a bias toward action in life, 546 00:24:07,571 --> 00:24:08,738 but I also know you got to step back. 547 00:24:08,738 --> 00:24:09,489 As do I. 548 00:24:09,489 --> 00:24:13,243 And and it's and and right the and is that, 549 00:24:15,078 --> 00:24:16,037 there's very few 550 00:24:16,037 --> 00:24:19,541 times when my dad used to say 551 00:24:19,833 --> 00:24:22,627 sometimes he would say, well, we gotta do something, even if it's wrong. 552 00:24:22,627 --> 00:24:25,505 It's very there are times 553 00:24:25,505 --> 00:24:27,340 when that is the right approach. 554 00:24:27,340 --> 00:24:30,302 It is a very small amount of the times. 555 00:24:30,302 --> 00:24:31,094 Well, how many times? 556 00:24:31,094 --> 00:24:33,013 And over in the United States. 557 00:24:33,013 --> 00:24:36,016 But people can I mean, wherever you're at in the world, you'll see this too, 558 00:24:36,308 --> 00:24:39,436 where something happens and politicians say we need to do something, 559 00:24:40,145 --> 00:24:42,147 you know, we need to pass some legislation, do something. 560 00:24:42,147 --> 00:24:45,484 It's like, well, not just maybe something, but not just anything. 561 00:24:45,901 --> 00:24:46,902 But exactly. 562 00:24:46,902 --> 00:24:52,073 And so I think the, the key is to recognize that, 563 00:24:53,033 --> 00:24:56,244 if we don't stop to discern, to think, 564 00:24:57,329 --> 00:24:59,748 then we will operate on auto response, 565 00:24:59,748 --> 00:25:02,918 will operate based on our habit, which isn't just 566 00:25:04,252 --> 00:25:05,420 which isn't just I got to go 567 00:25:05,420 --> 00:25:08,924 do something, but I'll go do the thing I normally do. 568 00:25:09,299 --> 00:25:09,883 Yeah. 569 00:25:09,883 --> 00:25:12,928 Because actually so there's there's five roles in the book. 570 00:25:13,386 --> 00:25:15,555 So two of them go toward change. 571 00:25:15,555 --> 00:25:17,474 One is you go toward change kind of on your own. 572 00:25:17,474 --> 00:25:19,059 You're a trailblazer. 573 00:25:19,059 --> 00:25:22,062 Why did you go on go toward change and you bring others with you 574 00:25:22,479 --> 00:25:25,190 and you're a torch bearer kind of lighting the path for them. 575 00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:27,484 Two are going toward stability. 576 00:25:27,484 --> 00:25:30,695 One is you're a fire fighter, which means on your own 577 00:25:30,695 --> 00:25:33,114 you say, no, we're not going to implement that new system or whatever. 578 00:25:33,114 --> 00:25:35,825 We're going to stop that thing. Another one is a fire chief. 579 00:25:35,825 --> 00:25:38,787 We can movement toward stability might be like, hey, 580 00:25:38,787 --> 00:25:41,289 we forgot about our purpose here as a team. Let's not chase that thing. 581 00:25:41,289 --> 00:25:43,208 Let's remember who we are, what we're trying to do. 582 00:25:43,208 --> 00:25:46,086 And then the fourth row is called a tinder gatherer. 583 00:25:46,086 --> 00:25:48,547 And and that's the one where you might be gathering information 584 00:25:48,547 --> 00:25:51,466 to make a better decision yourself. Although don't stay paralyzed by that. 585 00:25:51,466 --> 00:25:54,427 They don't don't just keep doing that at some point have to make a choice. 586 00:25:54,511 --> 00:25:56,429 But oftentimes it's also like I'm a teacher together 587 00:25:56,429 --> 00:25:59,057 because in my role, I'm helping other people be trailblazers. 588 00:25:59,057 --> 00:26:01,893 I'm helping other people be bearer. And that's a very legitimate role. 589 00:26:01,893 --> 00:26:03,186 So those are the five roles. 590 00:26:03,186 --> 00:26:06,606 And what we say is they're not personality types. 591 00:26:06,606 --> 00:26:09,276 It's not like saying, Kevin, every day you're going to wake up. 592 00:26:09,276 --> 00:26:11,528 And when you're a trailblazer, when you go to bed, you're a trailblazer. 593 00:26:11,528 --> 00:26:13,989 And every time something happens, you're a trailblazer. 594 00:26:13,989 --> 00:26:17,242 But what we are saying is you might have a tendency to be a trailblazer 595 00:26:17,450 --> 00:26:18,702 through your own experiences. 596 00:26:18,702 --> 00:26:21,371 You might feel most comfortable in that path or whatever it might be. 597 00:26:21,371 --> 00:26:22,289 But guess what, Kevin? 598 00:26:22,289 --> 00:26:24,583 You're leading a team of 20 people right now. 599 00:26:24,583 --> 00:26:26,459 They don't need you to blaze a trail all the time. 600 00:26:26,459 --> 00:26:28,962 They need you to be the torch bearer. Yeah. 601 00:26:28,962 --> 00:26:31,423 And in that case, you have to say, okay, I'm not going to wear this hat. 602 00:26:31,423 --> 00:26:33,133 I'm going to wear that hat. And that's a choice. 603 00:26:33,133 --> 00:26:36,469 So there is a lot about who has agency in this situation. 604 00:26:36,886 --> 00:26:40,265 And, we think a lot of people have maybe more agency than they give 605 00:26:40,265 --> 00:26:41,099 themselves credit for. 606 00:26:42,559 --> 00:26:44,019 I'm so glad you brought that up, because it's 607 00:26:44,019 --> 00:26:46,271 an incredibly important point in my opinion. 608 00:26:46,271 --> 00:26:49,190 And that is that when we lay out something 609 00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:52,277 like you did with the types, with the roles, 610 00:26:53,653 --> 00:26:56,531 too often we take them as an identity. 611 00:26:56,531 --> 00:26:59,367 Right? And they, they we have a tendency. 612 00:26:59,367 --> 00:27:02,287 You have a way to help us determine what our tendency might be, 613 00:27:02,287 --> 00:27:04,748 but that doesn't mean that's the only one we can do. 614 00:27:04,748 --> 00:27:08,418 It's not the only muscle we can flex and discernment 615 00:27:10,378 --> 00:27:12,672 helps us determine 616 00:27:12,672 --> 00:27:14,799 where we need to be and where we need 617 00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:17,802 to lean into others who have different tendencies than us. Yes. 618 00:27:17,886 --> 00:27:20,138 Yeah. Oh, absolutely. So you get a situation. 619 00:27:20,138 --> 00:27:20,930 Let me give you an example. 620 00:27:20,930 --> 00:27:22,557 I think we read about this in the book. I know we do. 621 00:27:22,557 --> 00:27:26,686 We just give a story where imagine that you get a call, everybody listen. 622 00:27:26,686 --> 00:27:29,356 You get a call from somebody you worked with five years ago, 623 00:27:29,356 --> 00:27:32,150 and this person calls you out of the blue, and they say, gosh, I remember 624 00:27:32,150 --> 00:27:32,859 working with you. 625 00:27:32,859 --> 00:27:36,196 You did such a great job on project XYZ, and I saw you do this, that 626 00:27:36,655 --> 00:27:38,114 I have this amazing opportunity. 627 00:27:38,114 --> 00:27:40,325 It's in this part of the world. 628 00:27:40,325 --> 00:27:42,410 It's like someplace you're like, oh, that sounds exciting. 629 00:27:42,410 --> 00:27:43,870 It's working for this organization. 630 00:27:43,870 --> 00:27:45,246 Like, wow, I heard they're great. 631 00:27:45,246 --> 00:27:47,624 It's for, you know, this role you're going to have, you're like, wow, 632 00:27:47,624 --> 00:27:49,793 I love all that responsibility or whatever it might be. 633 00:27:49,793 --> 00:27:52,212 And this pain, you got to be like, you got to be kidding me. 634 00:27:52,212 --> 00:27:53,296 They're going to give me that much to do this. 635 00:27:53,296 --> 00:27:55,090 Like, all these things sound wonderful. 636 00:27:55,090 --> 00:27:56,883 And in that moment, you might say, that's it. 637 00:27:56,883 --> 00:27:58,009 I'm gonna be a trailblazer. 638 00:27:58,009 --> 00:28:00,970 I'm gonna quit this job and go chase that job. 639 00:28:00,970 --> 00:28:02,722 And then maybe you look around at your team, 640 00:28:02,722 --> 00:28:05,266 you go, that's we're right in the middle of this big project, 641 00:28:05,266 --> 00:28:07,602 and I feel like we need to get this across the finish line. 642 00:28:07,602 --> 00:28:10,772 And I'm not here just to extract value from my people. 643 00:28:10,772 --> 00:28:12,023 We're actually doing something cool together, 644 00:28:12,023 --> 00:28:13,358 and I want to stay and see this thing through. 645 00:28:13,358 --> 00:28:16,194 So maybe you say no to that thing, and you, you double down on the team. 646 00:28:16,194 --> 00:28:17,862 Or maybe you go, you know what? 647 00:28:17,862 --> 00:28:19,906 I feel like I'm gonna chase this thing, and then you go home 648 00:28:19,906 --> 00:28:22,325 and perhaps you have a family and you're sitting around the dinner table. 649 00:28:22,325 --> 00:28:25,620 If if you have one of those these days and you're sitting around and talking 650 00:28:25,745 --> 00:28:28,915 and you have a couple kids and they're like in middle school for 651 00:28:28,998 --> 00:28:31,751 let me translate that. They're about 12 years old, 13 years old. 652 00:28:31,751 --> 00:28:34,003 And, you're telling about this thing, and the more you're telling you 653 00:28:34,003 --> 00:28:36,214 about this great opportunity, the more excited you're getting 654 00:28:36,214 --> 00:28:37,716 and the more you see them. 655 00:28:37,716 --> 00:28:40,927 Yeah, you see their energy going down and you see them going, I have friends, 656 00:28:41,469 --> 00:28:42,220 I'm doing this 657 00:28:42,220 --> 00:28:45,265 and we're getting ready for a performance next fall or whatever it might be. 658 00:28:45,598 --> 00:28:46,558 And you start to realize, 659 00:28:46,558 --> 00:28:50,353 I might feel like I want to go take that job and blaze this new trail, 660 00:28:50,937 --> 00:28:52,814 but that's not what they need for me right now. 661 00:28:52,814 --> 00:28:55,400 As a leader in my family or a leader of my team, 662 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,193 or you might look at it go, you know what? 663 00:28:57,193 --> 00:28:58,611 I understand the team at work is doing this. 664 00:28:58,611 --> 00:29:02,198 And I say my family feels like that, but this is a great whatever it might be. 665 00:29:02,532 --> 00:29:04,576 But you're consciously thinking it through. 666 00:29:04,576 --> 00:29:06,661 You're not just going, I'm going to go do that. 667 00:29:06,661 --> 00:29:08,872 And next thing you know, you look over your shoulder, nobody's following you. 668 00:29:10,290 --> 00:29:11,666 And you're not leading. 669 00:29:11,666 --> 00:29:13,293 Know if that's happening? 670 00:29:13,293 --> 00:29:15,545 So, So context matters. 671 00:29:15,545 --> 00:29:17,464 Context, 672 00:29:17,464 --> 00:29:20,467 context makes us smarter to. 673 00:29:21,092 --> 00:29:21,217 When. 674 00:29:21,217 --> 00:29:24,220 Well, have you ever had people that, will say things like, 675 00:29:24,679 --> 00:29:25,972 you'll be like, gosh, you're kind of, 676 00:29:25,972 --> 00:29:28,391 you know, I don't know, I'm going to pick on a certain part of our country, 677 00:29:28,391 --> 00:29:30,018 but like, you're kind of gruff 678 00:29:30,018 --> 00:29:32,687 and whatever it might be, you're like, well, I'm just a New Yorker type of thing. 679 00:29:32,687 --> 00:29:36,107 It's like, so everybody has to change their behavior to conform to you. 680 00:29:36,357 --> 00:29:38,902 I mean, that's not the best way to, like, work with people. 681 00:29:38,902 --> 00:29:41,905 So we just got to kind of watch out for that. 682 00:29:42,155 --> 00:29:43,990 100%. 683 00:29:43,990 --> 00:29:48,953 Before we start to wrap up, Patrick, is there anything we that I didn't ask? 684 00:29:49,162 --> 00:29:52,749 I mean, there's so much richness, so much we could have talked about 685 00:29:52,874 --> 00:29:54,542 we that we didn't. 686 00:29:54,542 --> 00:29:56,544 But is there anything in particular that particular 687 00:29:56,544 --> 00:29:58,671 that you wish I would have asked that I didn't? 688 00:29:58,671 --> 00:30:00,048 Well, I think you ask great questions. 689 00:30:00,048 --> 00:30:01,508 I'm never going to say you didn't ask me something. 690 00:30:01,508 --> 00:30:04,636 But there is one thing I'm thinking about that might be useful to people listening. 691 00:30:05,762 --> 00:30:06,471 And it's come up 692 00:30:06,471 --> 00:30:09,474 recently is I've talked to folks still talk about resilience, 693 00:30:09,599 --> 00:30:12,310 and they'll say they want a team that's resilient and can, you know, 694 00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:14,979 they want people who can bounce back and whatever it might be. 695 00:30:14,979 --> 00:30:18,066 And what I try to share with them is you think about that disruptive loop. 696 00:30:18,066 --> 00:30:20,777 You go through that process of trying something and you get results, 697 00:30:20,777 --> 00:30:22,904 and then you try to get better and then you get the next disruption. 698 00:30:22,904 --> 00:30:23,780 You keep going through that loop. 699 00:30:23,780 --> 00:30:26,241 It's not a one and done type of thing in my opinion. 700 00:30:26,241 --> 00:30:28,201 That's often how you build resilience. 701 00:30:28,201 --> 00:30:31,162 I can't put you in a workshop for two hours and say, okay, two hours 702 00:30:31,162 --> 00:30:33,164 from now you're going to come out 30% more resilient. 703 00:30:34,123 --> 00:30:35,166 Resilience comes 704 00:30:35,166 --> 00:30:39,712 from, in my opinion, getting knocked down, getting back up again 705 00:30:39,963 --> 00:30:41,214 and fighting the next battle, 706 00:30:41,214 --> 00:30:44,801 or use whatever analogy you want and then getting knocked down again, etc., etc. 707 00:30:44,884 --> 00:30:48,555 that's why ten years into your job, someone can listen to this right now 708 00:30:48,555 --> 00:30:50,640 and go, gosh, yeah, ten years ago if that thing happened, 709 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,058 I would have felt like crippled in the moment. 710 00:30:52,058 --> 00:30:53,351 I wouldn't know what to do with it. 711 00:30:53,351 --> 00:30:56,354 But now I've had all those things that I can help other people. 712 00:30:56,437 --> 00:31:01,484 So resilience is is built through trying, failing, succeeding, getting back up. 713 00:31:01,484 --> 00:31:04,153 And all of a sudden the bar of what you can handle goes up and up and up. 714 00:31:04,153 --> 00:31:05,864 And that's what I found in the stories in the book, 715 00:31:05,864 --> 00:31:09,284 whether it's the gentleman who, you know, got stranded at the top of the mountain, 716 00:31:09,284 --> 00:31:09,826 or the young girl 717 00:31:09,826 --> 00:31:13,580 who climbed Mount Everest, or the person who, you know, went into a conference 718 00:31:13,580 --> 00:31:16,457 and saw something different, decided to turn their business around. 719 00:31:16,457 --> 00:31:18,877 They worked their way up to that over the course of time. 720 00:31:18,877 --> 00:31:21,379 And the cool part is, so can you. 721 00:31:21,379 --> 00:31:22,547 We all can do this as well. 722 00:31:22,547 --> 00:31:24,424 And I'm still going around the loop myself. 723 00:31:24,424 --> 00:31:25,300 And what and while 724 00:31:25,300 --> 00:31:29,053 and while you talked about the loop and I agree with everything you said 725 00:31:30,847 --> 00:31:32,432 without the discernment and 726 00:31:32,432 --> 00:31:35,602 without the refining piece, it's going to be really hard. 727 00:31:35,643 --> 00:31:38,479 Like those two pieces are still so critical, right? Oh yeah. 728 00:31:38,479 --> 00:31:40,481 I know if you don't do those two pieces, you're really not doing a loop. 729 00:31:40,481 --> 00:31:41,608 You're just going back and forth. 730 00:31:41,608 --> 00:31:44,319 Back behavior and achievement behavior and achievement behavior and human. 731 00:31:44,319 --> 00:31:45,278 Yeah. 732 00:31:45,278 --> 00:31:48,823 And that's it's it's like, I don't know, I almost think like a molecule or, 733 00:31:48,948 --> 00:31:50,199 you know, something vibrating back and forth. 734 00:31:50,199 --> 00:31:51,910 It's not really gaining much ground. 735 00:31:51,910 --> 00:31:53,536 So, yeah, those are really critical pieces. 736 00:31:53,536 --> 00:31:56,456 And thank you for kind of driving that home. 737 00:31:56,456 --> 00:31:58,166 A couple of things before we go. 738 00:31:58,166 --> 00:32:01,169 I'm curious, I know at least one of these things already. 739 00:32:01,210 --> 00:32:04,213 But what do you, Patrick, do for fun? 740 00:32:05,632 --> 00:32:09,636 Well, I am a grandpa, so I have two, two granddaughters. 741 00:32:09,677 --> 00:32:11,054 I love to hang out with them. 742 00:32:11,054 --> 00:32:12,180 I feel like I should say, 743 00:32:12,180 --> 00:32:15,099 I feel like people would normally say, I like to read books and hike, 744 00:32:15,099 --> 00:32:17,352 but I actually like to do both of those things. 745 00:32:17,352 --> 00:32:19,938 So I do a fair amount of hiking and I've been very fortunate to go out. 746 00:32:19,938 --> 00:32:22,398 Hopefully not at the same time unless you're listening to the book. 747 00:32:22,398 --> 00:32:23,691 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 748 00:32:23,691 --> 00:32:25,234 And then you're missing all the beauty around you. 749 00:32:25,234 --> 00:32:25,485 Yeah. 750 00:32:25,485 --> 00:32:27,695 But like, I've done some things like hike Kilimanjaro 751 00:32:27,695 --> 00:32:29,906 with my son and things like that. And that's been a great experience. 752 00:32:29,906 --> 00:32:30,990 I would say that that's 753 00:32:30,990 --> 00:32:34,535 definitely something I enjoy doing, is just being outdoors awesome. 754 00:32:34,661 --> 00:32:37,121 And speaking of reading, you knew I was going to ask you this question. 755 00:32:37,121 --> 00:32:39,040 What are you reading these days? 756 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,709 Or something you've read recently that you want to share? 757 00:32:41,709 --> 00:32:44,712 All right, so this is going to sound like, oh my gosh, he's just 758 00:32:45,171 --> 00:32:46,547 sucking up to James Patterson. 759 00:32:46,547 --> 00:32:49,258 But I'm not what happened? Well, let me give you a story. 760 00:32:49,258 --> 00:32:54,347 So I, I, I'm a big nonfiction reader, readers historical and even, 761 00:32:54,430 --> 00:32:55,723 I mean, even things that are probably 762 00:32:55,723 --> 00:32:58,726 quasi historical fiction I kind of get into, but, 763 00:32:58,726 --> 00:33:02,480 or or just a lot of stuff that's in our domain, like stuff we would read for work. 764 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,148 I enjoy reading in general, 765 00:33:04,148 --> 00:33:07,568 like leadership and time management things and just stuff like that. 766 00:33:07,902 --> 00:33:10,571 But I was at a meeting with some friends on a project, 767 00:33:10,571 --> 00:33:12,448 and we were sitting around the table at dinner 768 00:33:12,448 --> 00:33:13,950 and they were talking about all the things 769 00:33:13,950 --> 00:33:15,493 they're reading and how much they're enjoying them. 770 00:33:15,493 --> 00:33:16,411 They're all fiction books. 771 00:33:16,411 --> 00:33:19,414 And I was like, gosh, I've lost that joy. 772 00:33:19,580 --> 00:33:20,832 I kind of forgot about that. 773 00:33:20,832 --> 00:33:24,335 So I started reading some things like, The Invisible Life of, 774 00:33:24,794 --> 00:33:26,504 Addie LaRue and things like that. 775 00:33:26,504 --> 00:33:27,880 And then I started reading some James 776 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,716 Patterson books just because I work with them so much. 777 00:33:29,716 --> 00:33:31,092 I talked to them like 3 or 4 times a week. 778 00:33:31,092 --> 00:33:32,176 I'm like, I should read more of this stuff. 779 00:33:32,176 --> 00:33:34,595 And now I'm pretty deep in a couple of this series. 780 00:33:34,595 --> 00:33:38,016 So right now I'm reading the, Jane Effing Smith series. 781 00:33:40,268 --> 00:33:40,643 All right. 782 00:33:40,643 --> 00:33:44,814 We will have those in the show notes for you, everybody. 783 00:33:46,482 --> 00:33:48,609 Nice, quick, light, enjoyable read. 784 00:33:48,609 --> 00:33:51,612 Not a lot of pressure. There you go. 785 00:33:51,946 --> 00:33:55,575 And now, the last question before I ask a question of the audience. 786 00:33:55,575 --> 00:33:57,535 Patrick, where can we learn more? 787 00:33:57,535 --> 00:33:58,870 Where do you want to point people? 788 00:33:58,870 --> 00:34:01,622 How can learn more about the book we have been talking about? 789 00:34:01,622 --> 00:34:02,999 Disrupt everything and win. 790 00:34:02,999 --> 00:34:06,002 Take control of your future. 791 00:34:06,252 --> 00:34:08,296 Any, any place you want to point people? 792 00:34:08,296 --> 00:34:08,504 Yeah. 793 00:34:08,504 --> 00:34:12,884 I mean, they go to my website, which is Patrick letting.com and it's pretty easy. 794 00:34:12,884 --> 00:34:15,887 Easy when you're the only Patrick letting out there run around and, 795 00:34:16,179 --> 00:34:18,014 and as far as books, it's everywhere. 796 00:34:18,014 --> 00:34:19,807 Go to a local bookstore, pick it up actually, 797 00:34:19,807 --> 00:34:21,809 really quickly, Kevin, as we're wrapping up, I was, 798 00:34:22,810 --> 00:34:23,770 after the book hit the New 799 00:34:23,770 --> 00:34:27,023 York Times list, I walked into a Barnes and Noble in Florida, and I. 800 00:34:27,065 --> 00:34:29,734 And I said, oh, like, you have an interest to be signing the book. 801 00:34:29,734 --> 00:34:32,320 And they were so kind and brought all the books up 802 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,155 and took pictures with me and gave you their handle 803 00:34:34,155 --> 00:34:35,656 for their Instagram and all those type of things. 804 00:34:35,656 --> 00:34:36,616 We could share it. 805 00:34:36,616 --> 00:34:41,496 And then the very next day, I walked into a bookstore in an airport and it wasn't. 806 00:34:41,704 --> 00:34:43,372 If anybody thinks it was Hudson, it was in Hudson. 807 00:34:43,372 --> 00:34:45,625 So that's that's the disclaimer out there. 808 00:34:45,625 --> 00:34:47,919 But I walked in and there was the book was on the shelf, 809 00:34:47,919 --> 00:34:49,712 and I picked it up, and I walked up to the lady 810 00:34:49,712 --> 00:34:51,756 who was working there, and she had her arms crossed. 811 00:34:51,756 --> 00:34:52,965 She kind of looked at me and I said, 812 00:34:54,342 --> 00:34:56,385 I excuse me, but I wrote this book. 813 00:34:56,385 --> 00:34:57,970 And she goes, did you bring that in here? 814 00:34:57,970 --> 00:35:01,057 And I said, no, she goes, you can't just bring books in and try to sell them. 815 00:35:01,057 --> 00:35:02,809 I'm like, no, no, it's over there on your shelf. 816 00:35:02,809 --> 00:35:04,477 I'm like, would you like me to sign it? 817 00:35:04,477 --> 00:35:07,480 And she looked me up and down she goes, we're good. 818 00:35:07,605 --> 00:35:09,690 Like, all right, so I'm good. 819 00:35:09,690 --> 00:35:12,276 So, you know, no ego here anymore. 820 00:35:12,276 --> 00:35:15,029 You look at the good. 821 00:35:15,029 --> 00:35:17,532 And with the bad. Patrick. Exactly. 822 00:35:17,532 --> 00:35:18,866 You know, it was a disruption, but, 823 00:35:18,866 --> 00:35:20,326 you know, I stepped back and said, you know what? 824 00:35:20,326 --> 00:35:22,662 That's that's fair. 825 00:35:22,662 --> 00:35:25,456 So, everybody, I have a question for all of you who have been watching 826 00:35:25,456 --> 00:35:29,210 or listening, and it's the question I ask every single episode. 827 00:35:29,794 --> 00:35:31,420 It's a simple, powerful question. 828 00:35:31,420 --> 00:35:36,050 Now what what action will you take as a result of what you've just heard? 829 00:35:36,884 --> 00:35:39,846 It's not enough to just listen. 830 00:35:40,138 --> 00:35:43,057 It's not enough even to be entertained. 831 00:35:43,057 --> 00:35:44,058 If you want if you're 832 00:35:44,058 --> 00:35:47,645 if you're here, you're serious about being a more effective leader. 833 00:35:47,979 --> 00:35:51,899 And so given that the only thing that matters here is what am I going to do 834 00:35:51,899 --> 00:35:53,776 with what I received? 835 00:35:53,776 --> 00:35:55,820 And so it's my challenge that you think about that. 836 00:35:55,820 --> 00:35:58,656 I could give you a list of the things that I wrote down 837 00:35:58,656 --> 00:36:01,659 or that I thought of as this conversation was going on. 838 00:36:01,993 --> 00:36:02,952 None of that matters. 839 00:36:02,952 --> 00:36:06,706 The only thing that matters is what you will do as a result of having been here. 840 00:36:06,706 --> 00:36:11,294 And if you do that, this will have been a very good use of your time. 841 00:36:11,294 --> 00:36:12,503 Patrick. 842 00:36:12,503 --> 00:36:13,838 Thank you, sir, for being here. 843 00:36:13,838 --> 00:36:15,214 Thank you. Kevin, and thanks everybody. 844 00:36:16,174 --> 00:36:18,009 And so everybody, I hope you enjoyed this. 845 00:36:18,009 --> 00:36:19,844 If you did, you know what to do. 846 00:36:19,844 --> 00:36:21,220 Make sure you're subscribed 847 00:36:21,220 --> 00:36:24,223 wherever you watched or listen so you don't miss any future episodes. 848 00:36:24,307 --> 00:36:28,144 And of course, if you really loved it, you should definitely tell someone else 849 00:36:28,144 --> 00:36:32,023 to join you as well, because every week we're here and we'll be back 850 00:36:32,023 --> 00:36:35,860 next week with another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast.