1 00:00:03,169 --> 00:00:04,004 Hi, Kim. 2 00:00:04,004 --> 00:00:08,925 How do you help a partner better understand your depression 3 00:00:08,925 --> 00:00:12,012 and anxiety when that is not something 4 00:00:12,012 --> 00:00:15,098 that they experience in their own lives? 5 00:00:16,057 --> 00:00:16,975 Hi Kim. 6 00:00:16,975 --> 00:00:20,186 Me and my partner would like some advice on how to communicate. 7 00:00:20,228 --> 00:00:22,480 Little domestic annoyances. 8 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:26,276 What should people do if they both say they want to work it out, 9 00:00:26,276 --> 00:00:29,279 but they don't succeed and keep breaking up? 10 00:00:32,741 --> 00:00:34,284 Hello and welcome 11 00:00:34,284 --> 00:00:38,121 to Engineering Love, a podcast about relationships. 12 00:00:38,872 --> 00:00:41,332 I'm your host, Kim Pullinger, and I'm a relationship 13 00:00:41,332 --> 00:00:44,461 coach, soon to be licensed therapist in Southern California. 14 00:00:45,086 --> 00:00:49,966 People always ask me if it's difficult to listen to couples who fight all day long. 15 00:00:50,383 --> 00:00:53,428 And my answer is that I love my job. 16 00:00:54,095 --> 00:00:57,223 More specifically, I love solving problems. 17 00:00:57,724 --> 00:01:01,519 Before running my coaching practice full time, I spent many years as an IT 18 00:01:01,686 --> 00:01:04,647 Systems engineer for a fortune 500 company. 19 00:01:04,647 --> 00:01:08,610 Engineering and psychotherapy, in my mind, are very similar 20 00:01:08,610 --> 00:01:11,613 in that they both strive to find a root cause. 21 00:01:11,863 --> 00:01:16,534 What is the root of the problem from which all other problems are tied to? 22 00:01:16,993 --> 00:01:20,997 For my entire life, I've been fascinated with the human mind and personalities. 23 00:01:20,997 --> 00:01:25,627 I mean, I love a good personality tests such as Myers-Briggs or Enneagram. 24 00:01:25,960 --> 00:01:28,797 You know, at some point in my life, I was very curious about astrology 25 00:01:28,797 --> 00:01:32,383 and numerology and how it could break down a personality structure. 26 00:01:32,801 --> 00:01:37,597 And in all my dabbling, I was ultimately interested in the root cause of suffering. 27 00:01:38,264 --> 00:01:41,726 I feel like all my years as an IT engineer prepared me to be an effective 28 00:01:41,726 --> 00:01:43,186 couples counselor. 29 00:01:43,186 --> 00:01:47,565 The way I see it, my systematic approach to problems has helped me 30 00:01:47,565 --> 00:01:53,446 bring a balance of both logic and empathy to the process of healing emotional pain. 31 00:01:54,155 --> 00:01:56,658 This past year, I started sharing things on social media 32 00:01:56,658 --> 00:01:59,911 that I thought might be helpful to you all in empowering you 33 00:01:59,911 --> 00:02:02,831 to solve your own problems in your relationships. 34 00:02:02,831 --> 00:02:07,544 And many of you had told me how helpful my videos are, but I can tell 35 00:02:07,544 --> 00:02:11,339 that it's not complete for many of you who are taking the work seriously. 36 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:16,386 And it's frustrating for me to try to fit helpful advice into 90s. 37 00:02:16,970 --> 00:02:19,973 Based on your comments and questions, the videos resonate. 38 00:02:20,140 --> 00:02:23,351 But many of you are unsure of what to do next. 39 00:02:23,768 --> 00:02:27,313 I'm hoping that this podcast and my eventual online courses 40 00:02:27,522 --> 00:02:29,107 will give you more options. 41 00:02:29,107 --> 00:02:32,110 For those of you who want to dig a little deeper. 42 00:02:32,652 --> 00:02:36,156 The name of this podcast, Engineering Love, suggests 43 00:02:36,156 --> 00:02:39,159 that love is something we can manufacture, 44 00:02:39,284 --> 00:02:42,036 design, or build. 45 00:02:42,036 --> 00:02:45,582 The opposite of this idea promoted in every rom com ever. 46 00:02:46,082 --> 00:02:49,752 By the way, I love a good rom com and would be lost without them in my world. 47 00:02:49,752 --> 00:02:54,132 I'm not criticizing rom coms, but the idea is that 48 00:02:54,465 --> 00:02:58,178 love is something that just randomly happens to us in the rain 49 00:02:58,178 --> 00:03:02,765 without any training necessary, and love should just be natural without any work, 50 00:03:03,308 --> 00:03:05,852 which is ridiculous. 51 00:03:05,852 --> 00:03:08,855 We need to be taught everything in life. 52 00:03:08,855 --> 00:03:12,650 No one pops out of the womb knowing how to bake a cake 53 00:03:12,650 --> 00:03:15,653 or explain particle physics. 54 00:03:15,945 --> 00:03:18,239 Similarly, none of us were born knowing 55 00:03:18,239 --> 00:03:23,328 how to communicate, process trauma, rebuild a sense of self 56 00:03:23,328 --> 00:03:26,956 after heartbreak or communicate our needs to a loved one. 57 00:03:27,582 --> 00:03:30,835 Instead, we're left to just figure it out based on what we saw 58 00:03:30,835 --> 00:03:34,047 our parents do or what our friends tell us to do. 59 00:03:34,422 --> 00:03:38,384 And then it turns into the blind, leading the blind, creating unhealthy, 60 00:03:38,384 --> 00:03:43,264 frustrating relationship patterns or perpetuating cycles of abuse. 61 00:03:43,806 --> 00:03:47,143 This podcast is intended to be an educational tool 62 00:03:47,143 --> 00:03:51,814 to help you learn how to be self-aware, so that you can change 63 00:03:51,814 --> 00:03:56,069 your undesirable patterns and learn how to advocate for your needs. 64 00:03:56,611 --> 00:03:58,446 Knowledge is power. 65 00:03:58,446 --> 00:04:02,116 Once you can start to put the pieces together of how you're wired, 66 00:04:02,533 --> 00:04:06,704 what you need, validating your needs and how to express those needs, 67 00:04:06,996 --> 00:04:10,750 you'll feel much less crazy and broken. 68 00:04:10,959 --> 00:04:13,086 You are not broken. 69 00:04:13,086 --> 00:04:15,463 You are just conditioned. 70 00:04:15,463 --> 00:04:20,593 Once you understand how your condition, you can then start to recondition yourself 71 00:04:20,593 --> 00:04:24,764 to think differently, which will then allow you to feel differently, 72 00:04:25,056 --> 00:04:29,769 which then allows you to act differently and make better choices in life. 73 00:04:30,561 --> 00:04:34,065 So thank you for clicking on that link and listening to this podcast. 74 00:04:34,065 --> 00:04:37,652 I appreciate all of you who have followed me on social media 75 00:04:37,902 --> 00:04:42,156 with so many heartfelt messages of gratitude and support. 76 00:04:42,490 --> 00:04:46,077 I read all of your messages and comments, and I also appreciate 77 00:04:46,077 --> 00:04:49,956 how many of you support each other through really difficult situations. 78 00:04:50,081 --> 00:04:54,252 We're building a wonderful community together and I want to be as helpful 79 00:04:54,252 --> 00:04:54,961 as I can to you. 80 00:04:54,961 --> 00:04:57,964 So please keep the comments and questions coming in. 81 00:04:58,298 --> 00:05:01,342 And if you want your question to be on a future episode, 82 00:05:01,384 --> 00:05:04,554 there's a link in the bio to submit recordings to the show. 83 00:05:05,013 --> 00:05:07,807 A big thank you to all of you who took the time 84 00:05:07,807 --> 00:05:10,810 and courage to record a question. 85 00:05:10,935 --> 00:05:13,396 And let's get to a few of those questions now. 86 00:05:14,355 --> 00:05:15,189 Hi Kim, 87 00:05:15,189 --> 00:05:19,027 thanks so much for opening the space for us to ask questions. 88 00:05:19,485 --> 00:05:22,280 I'm super excited about your new podcast 89 00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:26,242 and very thankful for the work that you and your team do. 90 00:05:26,284 --> 00:05:29,662 It has helped my partner and I a lot in our relationship 91 00:05:30,079 --> 00:05:32,623 and my questions surrounding mental health. 92 00:05:32,623 --> 00:05:37,628 How do you help a partner better understand your depression 93 00:05:37,628 --> 00:05:40,757 and anxiety, when that is not something 94 00:05:40,757 --> 00:05:43,843 that they experience in their own lives? 95 00:05:44,385 --> 00:05:45,345 That's my question. 96 00:05:45,345 --> 00:05:50,350 If you have any advice or, communication skills for either partner. 97 00:05:50,683 --> 00:05:53,436 Love to hear that. Again, thank you so much 98 00:05:53,436 --> 00:05:56,439 and looking forward to hearing from you on your podcast. 99 00:05:56,981 --> 00:06:02,362 This is a great question, and it is a sentiment that I hear a lot from people. 100 00:06:02,403 --> 00:06:06,491 At the root of this question is the need to be understood. 101 00:06:06,699 --> 00:06:09,702 What you're feeling is that your partner doesn't understand you, right? 102 00:06:09,786 --> 00:06:14,082 Ultimately, what you're feeling is that you are not being shown enough empathy. 103 00:06:14,665 --> 00:06:18,461 So let's first break down the terms so that we're all on the same page 104 00:06:18,795 --> 00:06:22,298 when it comes to helping someone through their pain. 105 00:06:22,298 --> 00:06:24,467 There are different levels of engagement, right? 106 00:06:24,467 --> 00:06:25,843 So you have pity. 107 00:06:25,843 --> 00:06:30,473 Pity is, you feel bad for someone, but you don't really want to do anything 108 00:06:30,473 --> 00:06:31,391 to fix something. 109 00:06:31,391 --> 00:06:36,646 It's it's just kind of an emotional response to seeing someone suffering. 110 00:06:37,146 --> 00:06:39,190 Next step up would be sympathy. 111 00:06:39,190 --> 00:06:41,692 Now, sympathy you're really feeling with someone. 112 00:06:41,692 --> 00:06:43,736 You you want their suffering to end. 113 00:06:43,736 --> 00:06:46,364 Actually that causes you pain. 114 00:06:46,364 --> 00:06:49,158 But again, kind of related to pity. 115 00:06:49,158 --> 00:06:52,662 You don't necessarily want to get directly involved. 116 00:06:52,870 --> 00:06:54,372 You want their pain to end. 117 00:06:54,372 --> 00:06:55,373 But you know, maybe 118 00:06:55,373 --> 00:06:58,376 if someone else could just come and take care of it, that would be great. 119 00:06:58,835 --> 00:07:01,963 Next up, if we're going to level up, we have empathy. 120 00:07:02,213 --> 00:07:05,925 Now empathy is where you can put yourself in their shoes, 121 00:07:05,925 --> 00:07:08,928 walk a mile in their shoes, and feel their pain. 122 00:07:08,928 --> 00:07:11,347 Maybe you've been in their situation before 123 00:07:11,347 --> 00:07:13,349 and you can relate to them in that way. 124 00:07:13,349 --> 00:07:16,060 With empathy, you understand them. 125 00:07:16,060 --> 00:07:19,856 But you know, let's be clear empathy doesn't mean you necessarily love them. 126 00:07:20,022 --> 00:07:24,944 If you take a sociopath, for example, they could empathize with victims 127 00:07:24,944 --> 00:07:28,865 in order to manipulate them, understand what that person is needing, 128 00:07:28,865 --> 00:07:33,578 and then jump in to then use that information in a negative way. 129 00:07:34,245 --> 00:07:39,459 But empathy at the root of it is you can think and feel what they're going through. 130 00:07:40,209 --> 00:07:43,212 Now, compassion would be the gold standard. 131 00:07:43,296 --> 00:07:47,300 This is the feeling of sympathy, the understanding of empathy, 132 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,428 and the ability to understand someone. 133 00:07:50,428 --> 00:07:53,806 Plus, you have a desire to get directly involved. 134 00:07:54,056 --> 00:07:55,558 You want to help them. 135 00:07:55,558 --> 00:07:58,478 You want to do something to end their suffering. 136 00:07:58,478 --> 00:08:02,023 Now, the difference between empathy and compassion is compassion 137 00:08:02,023 --> 00:08:06,110 has a little bit of detachment, healthy detachment 138 00:08:06,110 --> 00:08:10,156 so that you can help them out so that you can do your job. 139 00:08:10,448 --> 00:08:12,200 Doctors, therapists. 140 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,703 You have to be able to have a little bit of detachment 141 00:08:15,703 --> 00:08:19,207 in order to be able to help the person sitting across from you. 142 00:08:19,665 --> 00:08:23,836 Because if you just stay in empathy, jump down in that hole with them. 143 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:24,670 Yeah. 144 00:08:24,670 --> 00:08:27,298 If this is horrible, I understand how you're feeling 145 00:08:27,298 --> 00:08:30,009 and then you become crippled. 146 00:08:30,009 --> 00:08:33,638 Now both of you are sitting in that hole, and now you need a third person 147 00:08:33,638 --> 00:08:34,764 to help you out of that hole. 148 00:08:34,764 --> 00:08:38,893 So compassion is empathy, but with enough detachment 149 00:08:39,185 --> 00:08:41,979 where you can help them out. 150 00:08:41,979 --> 00:08:43,147 It's sustainable. 151 00:08:43,147 --> 00:08:46,317 It's a way you can live your life and help them 152 00:08:46,567 --> 00:08:50,196 where you can throw yourself into the fray of what's 153 00:08:50,196 --> 00:08:53,950 happening in their life, into the suffering and survive. 154 00:08:54,242 --> 00:08:59,580 So when it comes to a relationship, what people are seeking is for sure empathy. 155 00:08:59,789 --> 00:09:02,124 What is helpful is also compassion. 156 00:09:02,124 --> 00:09:04,502 Either one of those two at the heart of it. 157 00:09:04,502 --> 00:09:06,128 You want to be understood. 158 00:09:06,128 --> 00:09:08,214 So getting back to this question, how do you help 159 00:09:08,214 --> 00:09:11,425 a partner better understand your depression and anxiety 160 00:09:11,759 --> 00:09:14,595 when it's something they don't experience in their own lives? 161 00:09:14,595 --> 00:09:17,765 What I'm hearing in this question is that your partner 162 00:09:17,765 --> 00:09:20,768 is not demonstrating enough empathy. 163 00:09:20,810 --> 00:09:23,813 They're not demonstrating enough understanding. 164 00:09:23,896 --> 00:09:26,983 Now the question becomes, what are you looking for? 165 00:09:27,358 --> 00:09:30,027 I like to put the accountability back on the person 166 00:09:30,027 --> 00:09:31,904 who is bringing up the complaint. 167 00:09:31,904 --> 00:09:34,198 What do you need in this moment? 168 00:09:34,198 --> 00:09:37,201 What would prove to you that I understand what you're saying? 169 00:09:37,243 --> 00:09:40,705 What would prove to you that I have empathy for you? 170 00:09:41,205 --> 00:09:44,584 Now, sometimes people get squirrely about this when they're asked this, 171 00:09:44,584 --> 00:09:48,087 and no matter what the partner says, they'll keep saying, 172 00:09:48,087 --> 00:09:51,257 well, I just don't feel you feel the pain like I do. 173 00:09:51,257 --> 00:09:54,677 I just don't feel that you understand the depth of my emotions. 174 00:09:54,969 --> 00:09:55,469 Really? 175 00:09:55,469 --> 00:09:57,680 Look at what you're needed from your partner. 176 00:09:57,680 --> 00:10:02,351 Let's say I get hit by a bus and I look to my partner and say, you know what? 177 00:10:02,351 --> 00:10:06,314 You just don't understand what it feels like to be hit by a bus. 178 00:10:06,689 --> 00:10:09,150 You know what? I'm right. They don't understand. 179 00:10:09,150 --> 00:10:10,318 But what am I asking? 180 00:10:10,318 --> 00:10:12,278 Am I needing them to be hit by a bus? 181 00:10:12,278 --> 00:10:15,489 And or will that prove to me that they understand 182 00:10:15,489 --> 00:10:19,035 me, that they can empathize with me, that they can support me? 183 00:10:19,493 --> 00:10:22,371 What I'm stating here is be clear 184 00:10:22,371 --> 00:10:25,916 about what you need from your partner and what is reasonable. 185 00:10:25,958 --> 00:10:29,462 If you dangle this carrot of, you know, 186 00:10:29,462 --> 00:10:33,174 you've said to me that you understand, but you just don't feel it. 187 00:10:33,215 --> 00:10:36,344 Be careful of dangling that carrot of where your partner 188 00:10:36,344 --> 00:10:39,472 will never understand you despite all of their trying. 189 00:10:39,472 --> 00:10:41,098 Put it on you for what 190 00:10:41,098 --> 00:10:45,061 you need from them to prove to you that they do understand you. 191 00:10:45,227 --> 00:10:48,689 Because sometimes people will resist support, 192 00:10:48,689 --> 00:10:52,693 will resist love and empathy and understanding 193 00:10:53,027 --> 00:10:57,114 because they're stuck in some narrative of being misunderstood. 194 00:10:57,740 --> 00:11:00,368 Perhaps you were misunderstood a lot as a child. 195 00:11:00,368 --> 00:11:03,913 Perhaps you had your emotional needs neglected as a child, 196 00:11:04,246 --> 00:11:08,292 and it's just inconceivable to you that somewhat would understand 197 00:11:08,292 --> 00:11:12,755 you, inconceivable that someone would want to empathize with you and support you. 198 00:11:13,130 --> 00:11:14,256 And so you resisted. 199 00:11:14,256 --> 00:11:18,844 You find some way to find fault in whatever your partner is doing, 200 00:11:18,844 --> 00:11:21,847 and no matter what that partner does, there's just no way 201 00:11:21,847 --> 00:11:25,643 that they will understand you unless they themselves get hit by that bus. 202 00:11:26,519 --> 00:11:28,813 So figure out what you need 203 00:11:28,813 --> 00:11:31,899 as far as support goes and communicate that to your partner. 204 00:11:32,233 --> 00:11:35,236 For some, it's I just need a hug right now. 205 00:11:35,236 --> 00:11:39,532 I just need you to listen to me without offering solutions. 206 00:11:39,824 --> 00:11:44,537 I need you to listen and not hear this as a threat or a complaint here. 207 00:11:44,537 --> 00:11:47,331 This just as me processing my pain. 208 00:11:47,331 --> 00:11:51,210 I need empathy from you to understand that if you grew up 209 00:11:51,210 --> 00:11:55,339 with my parents, my childhood, my environment, home, environment, growing 210 00:11:55,339 --> 00:12:00,886 up, that you can understand how I might struggle with depression, 211 00:12:01,095 --> 00:12:05,349 how I might struggle with anxiety if I was never taught to believe in myself 212 00:12:05,349 --> 00:12:08,394 as a capable human being, that you can understand that 213 00:12:08,394 --> 00:12:12,148 I might suffer from anxiety and being overwhelmed. 214 00:12:12,273 --> 00:12:13,566 So when it comes to your partner 215 00:12:13,566 --> 00:12:17,111 better understanding, you figure out what your needs are. 216 00:12:17,278 --> 00:12:20,573 What does it look like for them to understand? 217 00:12:20,573 --> 00:12:23,492 You ask what you need from them and to the partner. 218 00:12:23,492 --> 00:12:24,952 Learn empathy. 219 00:12:24,952 --> 00:12:27,288 Learn mirroring exercises. 220 00:12:27,288 --> 00:12:28,664 Reflective listening. 221 00:12:28,664 --> 00:12:32,168 Learn to put solutions on the back burner and sit with your partner. 222 00:12:32,418 --> 00:12:36,464 You don't have to directly experience being hit 223 00:12:36,464 --> 00:12:40,468 by a bus to empathize with someone who has been hit by a bus. 224 00:12:40,718 --> 00:12:44,305 You don't have to directly experience depression and anxiety 225 00:12:44,555 --> 00:12:46,390 to be able to be empathetic 226 00:12:46,390 --> 00:12:50,186 and compassionate towards your partner who is experiencing these things. 227 00:12:50,227 --> 00:12:52,354 Validation of feelings is key. 228 00:12:52,354 --> 00:12:54,356 Thank you very much for your question. 229 00:12:54,356 --> 00:12:55,399 Hi Kim. 230 00:12:55,399 --> 00:12:58,652 Me and my partner would like some advice on how to communicate 231 00:12:58,652 --> 00:13:02,865 little domestic annoyances in a way that's equally fair to both parties. 232 00:13:03,282 --> 00:13:06,911 For instance, when my partner forgets to do a task or does it badly 233 00:13:06,911 --> 00:13:10,748 by my standards, unintentionally does something that I don't like. 234 00:13:10,998 --> 00:13:13,751 He feels that it's unnecessary for me to mention it, 235 00:13:13,751 --> 00:13:16,212 because I should trust that he'll do better next time. 236 00:13:16,212 --> 00:13:18,547 But it's not easy for me to let go in that way. 237 00:13:18,547 --> 00:13:21,884 And over time, resentments just building up if I don't say anything. 238 00:13:22,092 --> 00:13:23,928 How should we try to resolve this? 239 00:13:23,928 --> 00:13:26,639 Thank you so much for the work that you're doing. 240 00:13:26,639 --> 00:13:29,433 All right, let's talk house chores. 241 00:13:29,433 --> 00:13:32,394 I cannot tell you how many couples come to me. 242 00:13:32,394 --> 00:13:36,732 And house chores is one of the first things they complain about. 243 00:13:37,024 --> 00:13:40,778 And one of the supposedly only things they argue about 244 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,698 where I like to start is from a superficial level. 245 00:13:45,032 --> 00:13:49,036 If this is actually low hanging fruit where we can just knock this out 246 00:13:49,036 --> 00:13:50,538 easily, let's do it. 247 00:13:50,538 --> 00:13:54,333 My first question is, have you come up with a formal list 248 00:13:54,333 --> 00:13:58,045 of how the house chores will be divvied up in this list? 249 00:13:58,087 --> 00:14:01,090 Might be washing the dishes. Who cooks? 250 00:14:01,090 --> 00:14:02,383 Who cleans? 251 00:14:02,383 --> 00:14:03,509 Loading the dishwasher. 252 00:14:03,509 --> 00:14:06,220 Unloading the dishwasher. Vacuuming. 253 00:14:06,220 --> 00:14:08,180 Cleaning the bathroom. Laundry. 254 00:14:08,180 --> 00:14:12,101 My first question to couples would be, how have you come up with this list? 255 00:14:12,434 --> 00:14:17,064 And it's kind of like a flowchart where, okay, if you haven't created a list, 256 00:14:17,064 --> 00:14:21,026 the first thing to do is create a list and then assign names. 257 00:14:21,151 --> 00:14:23,028 See how that works for a while? 258 00:14:23,028 --> 00:14:24,572 We go back to the flowchart. 259 00:14:24,572 --> 00:14:25,823 Have you created a list? 260 00:14:25,823 --> 00:14:27,491 Yes. Okay. 261 00:14:27,491 --> 00:14:29,368 How is that list going? 262 00:14:29,368 --> 00:14:33,038 Maybe once you create a list, assign names to the tasks, 263 00:14:33,038 --> 00:14:36,041 you will kind of be rolling along smoothly. 264 00:14:36,375 --> 00:14:39,128 Or maybe you create a list and assign 265 00:14:39,128 --> 00:14:42,131 the tasks and people are dropping the ball. 266 00:14:42,423 --> 00:14:46,635 Next step would be what is the resistance to doing the chores? 267 00:14:46,969 --> 00:14:48,429 Now again, this could be just 268 00:14:48,429 --> 00:14:52,766 a superficial level of oh, I'm kind of forgetful or I'm super busy. 269 00:14:52,808 --> 00:14:55,227 I'm working 12 hour days at the office. 270 00:14:55,227 --> 00:14:56,687 I just had a baby. 271 00:14:56,687 --> 00:14:59,690 You know, the list goes on of really legitimate excuses. 272 00:15:00,065 --> 00:15:03,819 But if we're talking about a long term pattern of resistance 273 00:15:03,819 --> 00:15:08,866 to these house chores that you agreed to do, by the way, the benefit of having it 274 00:15:08,866 --> 00:15:13,329 written down and assigning names is that you get accountability. 275 00:15:13,579 --> 00:15:16,749 Both parties have now agreed to this chores list, 276 00:15:16,749 --> 00:15:19,835 so it's kind of like an informal contract. 277 00:15:20,127 --> 00:15:23,589 So if there's resistance to doing the chores now you have this list. 278 00:15:23,589 --> 00:15:25,966 You agreed to do it. You're not following through. 279 00:15:25,966 --> 00:15:27,801 What is the resistance to chores? 280 00:15:27,801 --> 00:15:31,847 At a superficial level, it could be, like I said, those legitimate excuses. 281 00:15:31,847 --> 00:15:32,681 Life gets busy. 282 00:15:32,681 --> 00:15:37,728 But if consistently over, I don't know, a few months, six months, a year. 283 00:15:37,770 --> 00:15:39,939 You have resistance to these chores 284 00:15:39,939 --> 00:15:43,317 when you repeatedly agree that, yes, I am going to do it. 285 00:15:43,692 --> 00:15:46,153 Then something a little deeper is going on. 286 00:15:46,153 --> 00:15:49,114 Some questions I like to ask in those situations are. 287 00:15:49,114 --> 00:15:51,784 What is your relationship with authority figures? 288 00:15:51,784 --> 00:15:53,953 Do you like being told what to do? 289 00:15:53,953 --> 00:15:55,204 Most people don't. 290 00:15:55,204 --> 00:15:56,914 For the person who is complaining a lot. 291 00:15:56,914 --> 00:15:59,083 Are you a person who likes control? 292 00:15:59,083 --> 00:16:00,417 And for both parties. 293 00:16:00,417 --> 00:16:03,671 Do you have any sort of parent child dynamic going on? 294 00:16:03,796 --> 00:16:07,007 Does your partner ever mother you or father you? 295 00:16:07,341 --> 00:16:09,718 Are you the parent or are you the child? 296 00:16:09,718 --> 00:16:14,098 Does this dynamic play out in other areas of your life besides house chores? 297 00:16:14,556 --> 00:16:17,893 Now, if we go even deeper to what might be going on, 298 00:16:18,185 --> 00:16:21,188 it might not be about the chores at all. 299 00:16:21,730 --> 00:16:26,193 For the person complaining, a lot of times it's about being listened to, 300 00:16:26,235 --> 00:16:31,657 being acknowledged, being cared for, where someone doing chores 301 00:16:31,657 --> 00:16:35,494 somehow represents love and caring and support 302 00:16:35,703 --> 00:16:39,289 for the partner who's kind of falling down on the job and not doing your chores. 303 00:16:39,331 --> 00:16:42,334 Learn to develop empathy for your partner. 304 00:16:42,584 --> 00:16:44,795 Maybe you're with someone who 305 00:16:44,795 --> 00:16:48,549 has a great need and desire for order around the house, 306 00:16:48,757 --> 00:16:52,845 and it goes beyond just, oh, they just like things clean and tidy. 307 00:16:52,845 --> 00:16:56,682 Perhaps clean and tidy and orderly is a need for them. 308 00:16:57,099 --> 00:17:00,436 It's a necessity where it's soothing to them. 309 00:17:00,436 --> 00:17:03,397 It calms their mind. It gives them peace. 310 00:17:03,522 --> 00:17:06,942 Perhaps they grew up in a home where there was a lot of volatility, 311 00:17:07,067 --> 00:17:08,819 a lot of things they couldn't control. 312 00:17:08,819 --> 00:17:11,822 So one of the few things they could control was cleaning. 313 00:17:12,197 --> 00:17:13,115 Or perhaps cleaning 314 00:17:13,115 --> 00:17:17,119 became a way of pleasing the parent, of bringing peace into the home 315 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,415 of preventing a parent from getting mad at them, from going off on them. 316 00:17:21,749 --> 00:17:24,793 So find out what is the history behind this 317 00:17:24,793 --> 00:17:27,796 cleaning streak for the person who's complaining? 318 00:17:28,005 --> 00:17:30,215 Do you often feel taken advantage of? 319 00:17:30,215 --> 00:17:31,633 Do you feel taken for granted? 320 00:17:31,633 --> 00:17:33,427 Perhaps unappreciated? 321 00:17:33,427 --> 00:17:38,140 Again, when we're going to deeper levels of the house chore battle, 322 00:17:38,474 --> 00:17:42,061 you're going to find that it's really not about the house chores. 323 00:17:42,603 --> 00:17:46,190 These are some questions you can ask about what's going on with you, 324 00:17:46,523 --> 00:17:48,233 what's going on with them. 325 00:17:48,233 --> 00:17:52,696 Because more often than not, the person who's complaining 326 00:17:52,696 --> 00:17:57,451 frequently about the house chores has a deeper level of hurt going on. 327 00:17:57,618 --> 00:18:02,623 Similarly, the person who's resistant to doing the house chores most likely 328 00:18:02,623 --> 00:18:06,835 has something deeper going on as well when it comes to resistance and authority. 329 00:18:07,044 --> 00:18:11,548 You know, when you live with someone, it's very difficult to find two people 330 00:18:11,548 --> 00:18:17,262 who have the exact same compatible level of tidiness and cleanliness. 331 00:18:17,471 --> 00:18:22,059 You can look back on your home growing up, how did you feel around cleanliness? 332 00:18:22,059 --> 00:18:23,560 Around messiness? 333 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,687 Was there some need that developed? 334 00:18:25,687 --> 00:18:28,565 Perhaps your parent was really clean and tidy 335 00:18:28,565 --> 00:18:31,568 and you just kind of modeled yourself after them. 336 00:18:31,610 --> 00:18:34,029 Look back upon your history with roommates. 337 00:18:34,029 --> 00:18:36,156 What was your experience like back then? 338 00:18:36,156 --> 00:18:38,158 Did you used to live with messy roommates? 339 00:18:38,158 --> 00:18:40,160 And it really wasn't that big of a deal. 340 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,205 And now you're living with a messy partner and it all of a sudden 341 00:18:43,205 --> 00:18:44,790 has become a big deal. 342 00:18:44,790 --> 00:18:47,167 It's probably not about the house chores. 343 00:18:47,167 --> 00:18:50,420 Cleanliness and tidiness is a very inherent thing. 344 00:18:50,462 --> 00:18:52,047 It's really part of your nature. 345 00:18:52,047 --> 00:18:57,761 People can change to some degree, perhaps being a little more easygoing 346 00:18:57,761 --> 00:19:01,223 about messiness around the house, perhaps being a little more easygoing 347 00:19:01,223 --> 00:19:03,475 about the way that your partner cleans a bathroom. 348 00:19:03,475 --> 00:19:06,478 But for the most part, this is a pretty inherent thing, 349 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,857 and it can create a lot of inner turmoil. 350 00:19:09,898 --> 00:19:13,485 I guess, for lack of a better phrase, for people 351 00:19:13,485 --> 00:19:16,488 who have a lower threshold of pain. 352 00:19:16,738 --> 00:19:20,659 If you are the type who has a lower threshold of pain when you're developing 353 00:19:20,659 --> 00:19:24,329 that house chores list, don't assign your partner the bathroom cleaning job. 354 00:19:24,329 --> 00:19:27,708 If after they clean the bathroom, it's in your mind 355 00:19:27,708 --> 00:19:31,003 a disaster and you just have to go back and clean up after them. 356 00:19:31,170 --> 00:19:37,134 Really come into acceptance and honesty about what kind of cleaner you are, 357 00:19:37,134 --> 00:19:40,429 what kind of cleaner your partner is, and develop a chores list 358 00:19:40,429 --> 00:19:43,515 that is going to set people up for success. 359 00:19:43,724 --> 00:19:46,685 Otherwise, you have the potential of getting into this dynamic 360 00:19:46,685 --> 00:19:50,606 where you constantly set your partner up for failure, 361 00:19:50,981 --> 00:19:54,401 where you know they're not going to clean the bathroom the way you like it, 362 00:19:54,735 --> 00:19:57,362 and then it turns into this little dance that you do. 363 00:19:57,362 --> 00:19:59,198 Oh, did you clean the bathroom? 364 00:19:59,198 --> 00:20:01,116 Oh, you finally cleaned the bathroom. 365 00:20:01,116 --> 00:20:03,785 Oh, you cleaned the bathroom really poorly. 366 00:20:03,785 --> 00:20:08,749 And now that leads to this kind of superior, inferior dynamic. 367 00:20:09,166 --> 00:20:12,461 So when it comes to house chores, see if it is low hanging fruit 368 00:20:12,461 --> 00:20:16,548 that you can just assign a chores list and move on with your lives. 369 00:20:16,632 --> 00:20:19,384 And if it's not, if the chores list doesn't work, 370 00:20:19,384 --> 00:20:22,471 then start to look at what is the resistance to chores. 371 00:20:22,512 --> 00:20:25,474 You don't like authority figures being told what to do. 372 00:20:25,474 --> 00:20:28,477 Control freaks the parent child dynamic. 373 00:20:28,602 --> 00:20:30,896 Maybe it's not about the chores at all. 374 00:20:30,896 --> 00:20:34,274 Maybe it's about being listened to, appreciated, acknowledged. 375 00:20:34,274 --> 00:20:38,028 A lack of empathy that you're feeling from your partner, which I'm pretty 376 00:20:38,028 --> 00:20:41,865 sure is going to be reflected in other areas of your relationship. 377 00:20:42,199 --> 00:20:46,370 So sit down and have some good talks and negotiations about what 378 00:20:46,370 --> 00:20:50,457 this chores list is going to look like, and move forward and see where you land. 379 00:20:50,582 --> 00:20:53,377 Thanks very much for this very relatable question. 380 00:20:53,377 --> 00:20:57,172 What should people do if they both say they want to work it out, 381 00:20:57,172 --> 00:21:00,175 but they don't succeed and keep breaking up? 382 00:21:00,175 --> 00:21:03,553 This is a great question because it really speaks to 383 00:21:03,804 --> 00:21:06,765 the frustration and the pain of people 384 00:21:06,765 --> 00:21:10,143 who love each other dearly, but just can't seem to work it out. 385 00:21:10,269 --> 00:21:11,812 The short answer to this question 386 00:21:11,812 --> 00:21:15,732 is if you're serious about repairing the relationship 387 00:21:15,732 --> 00:21:19,695 and seeing if you can build a long term future, get a professional involved. 388 00:21:19,778 --> 00:21:23,865 Find a therapist or a coach, or perhaps a mentor in your life, 389 00:21:23,865 --> 00:21:27,577 a grandparent, someone older and wiser who you trust and start 390 00:21:27,577 --> 00:21:29,204 to get some perspective, 391 00:21:29,204 --> 00:21:32,916 some outside perspective on the dynamic that's going on between you two. 392 00:21:33,250 --> 00:21:34,293 That's what you can do 393 00:21:34,293 --> 00:21:38,380 from a third party perspective, from an internal perspective. 394 00:21:38,380 --> 00:21:43,302 You can start to ask yourself some probing questions, such as 395 00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:48,307 what is it about your partner that you absolutely hate? 396 00:21:49,599 --> 00:21:50,559 What is it 397 00:21:50,559 --> 00:21:53,562 about them that you just cannot stand? 398 00:21:53,979 --> 00:21:57,190 What is it about them that keeps breaking up this relationship? 399 00:21:57,190 --> 00:22:01,153 And if they only change this one thing, or maybe 1 or 2 things, 400 00:22:01,361 --> 00:22:03,989 your relationship would be perfect. What is that? 401 00:22:03,989 --> 00:22:07,784 Now, when you get the answer to that question, maybe it's they're too 402 00:22:07,784 --> 00:22:13,373 selfish, they're to untrustworthy, they're to insensitive. 403 00:22:13,373 --> 00:22:14,708 They never listen to me. 404 00:22:14,708 --> 00:22:17,294 They're too clingy up in my business. 405 00:22:17,294 --> 00:22:20,213 They're too detached to avoidant. 406 00:22:20,213 --> 00:22:23,592 Whatever the answer is, ask yourself two questions. 407 00:22:23,967 --> 00:22:27,596 The first question is, okay, for what I just criticize them for 408 00:22:27,596 --> 00:22:31,183 is this something that I also struggle with? 409 00:22:31,391 --> 00:22:35,979 Is this something that I kind of hate within myself and judge myself for? 410 00:22:36,188 --> 00:22:40,567 If it is, then you are 100% projecting onto your partner. 411 00:22:41,401 --> 00:22:44,946 The second question you can ask is of those crimes 412 00:22:44,946 --> 00:22:48,533 that you just laid on to your partner, those judgments and criticisms, 413 00:22:48,617 --> 00:22:51,870 who from your past reminds you of this 414 00:22:51,870 --> 00:22:55,165 feeling, the way that your partner makes you feel in this relationship 415 00:22:55,165 --> 00:22:59,419 when you're having those downtimes and you break up when you're feeling 416 00:22:59,419 --> 00:23:03,465 those downtimes, who from your past made you feel the same way? 417 00:23:03,465 --> 00:23:06,760 If you can come up with someone, maybe your mother or your father, 418 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,639 a sibling, an ex, perhaps, but usually it goes back further. 419 00:23:10,639 --> 00:23:14,351 Father, mother, family member then that's called transference. 420 00:23:14,601 --> 00:23:15,644 Or your feelings 421 00:23:15,644 --> 00:23:19,606 about that person from the past are being transferred onto your partner. 422 00:23:20,023 --> 00:23:24,903 In both situations, there's an opportunity to do a lot of personal work 423 00:23:25,070 --> 00:23:25,904 for the projections. 424 00:23:25,904 --> 00:23:29,950 It's kind of obvious where, okay, I'm judging this person for something 425 00:23:29,950 --> 00:23:34,996 that I totally struggle with myself, and it's just easier to lay it on them, 426 00:23:34,996 --> 00:23:40,252 project onto them and criticize them and point the finger at them than to sit 427 00:23:40,252 --> 00:23:44,464 with it myself and realize that, oh, this is an opportunity for me to upgrade. 428 00:23:44,673 --> 00:23:46,967 Develop more integrity. Grow. 429 00:23:46,967 --> 00:23:50,887 Similarly, if it's transference that your partner is reminding 430 00:23:50,887 --> 00:23:54,683 you are making you feel like someone from the past made you feel. 431 00:23:54,766 --> 00:23:57,769 Then figure out how it is that they make you feel. 432 00:23:57,936 --> 00:24:00,230 They make you feel stupid. 433 00:24:00,230 --> 00:24:02,816 They make you feel unattractive. 434 00:24:02,816 --> 00:24:06,778 They make you feel like you're neglected, that you're not worth 435 00:24:06,778 --> 00:24:10,365 spending time with, that you're not worth making an effort for. 436 00:24:10,699 --> 00:24:14,411 These are all opportunities to work on a sense of self, 437 00:24:14,578 --> 00:24:18,999 to work on your self-esteem, to start to build up your confidence. 438 00:24:19,082 --> 00:24:24,254 It's very important who we choose to associate with, whether that's friends 439 00:24:24,254 --> 00:24:29,259 or romantic partner or whoever we spend time with in our personal lives. 440 00:24:29,634 --> 00:24:34,014 It's very important to surround yourself with, for lack of a better word, 441 00:24:34,264 --> 00:24:35,265 good people. 442 00:24:35,265 --> 00:24:38,351 Because we are communal beings, we are social mammals. 443 00:24:38,351 --> 00:24:41,229 We seek community, we seek connection. 444 00:24:41,229 --> 00:24:43,773 And when we are trying to fit in 445 00:24:43,773 --> 00:24:47,903 and be part of a community, be part of a relationship, a couple, 446 00:24:48,069 --> 00:24:53,200 we inevitably seek the validation, the affirmation of this community. 447 00:24:53,658 --> 00:24:56,244 We seek the acceptance, the approval of our partner. 448 00:24:56,244 --> 00:24:59,164 So you really want to make sure that you're surrounding yourself 449 00:24:59,164 --> 00:25:03,543 with reasonably decent people, because if you seek the approval 450 00:25:03,543 --> 00:25:07,923 of unhealthy people, you will become an unhealthy person. 451 00:25:08,465 --> 00:25:11,384 Whereas when you're surrounded with people who see the good in you 452 00:25:11,384 --> 00:25:15,305 rather than the bad in you, people who see you having a bad day, 453 00:25:15,305 --> 00:25:18,683 a petty moment and say, wait a minute, this isn't you. 454 00:25:18,934 --> 00:25:20,143 You can do better than that. 455 00:25:20,143 --> 00:25:24,356 Versus people who see a petty moment or bad day and say, wow, 456 00:25:24,397 --> 00:25:27,400 you're just a piece of trash. Typical you. 457 00:25:27,526 --> 00:25:30,862 So we have a lot of choice in who we surround ourselves with, 458 00:25:30,862 --> 00:25:34,783 and it has a great impact on our self-esteem and our worthiness. 459 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,827 I encourage you to choose wisely. 460 00:25:37,827 --> 00:25:42,165 So with regards to this question of what should people do when they want to work 461 00:25:42,165 --> 00:25:46,002 it out, are clearly in love and don't succeed and keep breaking up. 462 00:25:46,253 --> 00:25:48,463 Try to get a third party involved. 463 00:25:48,463 --> 00:25:52,842 Get some pattern interrupt into your cycle where you get an outside 464 00:25:52,842 --> 00:25:56,972 perspective, a grounded perspective, a mentor, someone older and wiser. 465 00:25:57,222 --> 00:25:59,766 Along with that comes the inner work. 466 00:25:59,766 --> 00:26:02,352 What are the criticisms you're making of your partner? 467 00:26:02,352 --> 00:26:05,021 What are they making of you and do that projections 468 00:26:05,021 --> 00:26:08,775 and transference work to figure out, oh, this is the area 469 00:26:08,775 --> 00:26:12,612 that I can really focus on to further my personal growth. 470 00:26:12,862 --> 00:26:16,533 And it actually has a little less to do with my partner than I thought. 471 00:26:16,783 --> 00:26:20,161 We all have wounds that go deep, and sometimes it takes a partner 472 00:26:20,161 --> 00:26:23,623 to hold up that mirror so that we know what we can start working on. 473 00:26:23,957 --> 00:26:25,625 Thank you very much for your question. 474 00:26:25,625 --> 00:26:30,213 It is a common experience for many people, and I hear your frustration 475 00:26:30,213 --> 00:26:32,048 and I hope it works out for the both of you. 476 00:26:33,967 --> 00:26:35,176 Thank you very much 477 00:26:35,176 --> 00:26:38,930 for tuning in to my inaugural episode of Engineering Love. 478 00:26:38,930 --> 00:26:42,309 I will be back with new episodes every Thursday morning, 479 00:26:42,434 --> 00:26:43,977 and if you would like to submit 480 00:26:43,977 --> 00:26:47,647 a question for the show or contact me, you can go to my website. 481 00:26:47,731 --> 00:26:49,691 It's my name kimpolinder.com 482 00:26:49,691 --> 00:26:52,777 kimpolinder.com 483 00:26:52,777 --> 00:26:56,740 or you can check me out on Instagram. 484 00:26:56,740 --> 00:27:00,160 My account is @kp_counseling 485 00:27:00,368 --> 00:27:04,205 and on TikTok I'm @kp_counseling108 486 00:27:04,664 --> 00:27:07,626 And before I go, I'd like to leave you with a quote for this week. 487 00:27:07,626 --> 00:27:11,171 This is a quote by Carl Rogers, who was a very famous psychologist 488 00:27:11,171 --> 00:27:15,425 who said, what is most personal is most universal. 489 00:27:15,550 --> 00:27:19,512 Essentially, if you are struggling out there with an issue and a problem 490 00:27:19,512 --> 00:27:22,515 and you think you are the only person in the world who has broken with 491 00:27:22,515 --> 00:27:28,063 this problem, chances are your problem is experienced by many, many others. 492 00:27:28,063 --> 00:27:31,441 That is the essence of this platform where your questions can be 493 00:27:31,441 --> 00:27:34,653 aired to the public so that other people can also benefit 494 00:27:34,819 --> 00:27:36,946 who are going through the exact same issue. 495 00:27:36,946 --> 00:27:39,074 Thank you and I will see you again next week.