Tiffany(00:02):
Okay, folks, this is, I should probably say all of this in the intro, so I, I'll, I'll say it there. But again, here we are with Monica, who I've already introduced in the intro. Monica, this has been a long time coming. I actually thought the whole team had thought we'd already interviewed you multiple times and it turns out we have never interviewed you going on . Holy macro. Can you start please by telling all the people who don't know you as well as I know you, where are you? Tell us a little bit about your practice as it currently stands.
Monica(00:31):
Yeah. so as it currently stands, I'm located in Texas, originally from California. I am a wife of a pilot and a mom to three crazy busy kiddos who are just amazing, but very active. And yeah, so in 2018 is when I took the leap, started to think about taking the leap into private practice, but at that time I was working in a school-based setting for county mental health and was doing some part-time clinical supervisory work, documentation, supervisory work. I was a clinician seeing my own case load and I was also the clinic compliance officer, while also seeing clients in private practice on the nights and some weekends, .
Tiffany(01:27):
Okay. So before we even get into this, I have to know how old are your kids now?
Monica(01:34):
Yes. So right now I have a 13-year-old, a almost 10-year-old and an 8-year-old.
Tiffany(01:41):
An 8-year-old. So at this time in 2018, I can't do the math. How old were your kids around at that time?
Monica(01:47):
They were like six. Oh my God. Was the oldest. Yeah.
Tiffany(01:54):
And down from there. This is insane. Okay. Babies
Monica(01:58):
.
Tiffany(01:58):
So, holy mackerel. So at this time you're working in a school-based setting full time. Mm-Hmm . You are a compliance officer, so you're getting extra responsibilities and roles. Mm-Hmm . On top of what you're normally doing. You're seeing your own clients also on top of that. Mm-Hmm . This is 2018. Can you just talk about a day in the life of you with three little children while working this kind of back to bag life?
Monica(02:23):
Highly do not recommend. At that time I was working, 'cause it was school based. The school started at 7:30 AM so my day was from seven 30 to four 30, and I had about an hour commute. And so the earliest daycare opened, any daycare was like 6:00 AM So my day was starting before five, getting kiddos ready, they're eating their little oatmeal or cereal or whatever in the car. We're driving to daycare waiting in the driveway or the parking lot for them to open up. Daycare opens up, I'm like, take my children. And then I run off to work. It was just, it was, it was madness. And, and the end of the day was just the same. I was racing to get there by the time the daycare was closing. And I just, I can remember like having conversations with my husband because my younger ones were doing like survival swim lessons, and we had to get them there . And I'm like, how do people do this? How do people take their kids to practice or soccer or do homework or make dinner, like dinner? How do people do this? Like, it just did not make sense. Like, I'm looking at the hours of my day and the realities and the demands and I'm, I I just couldn't see how it all was ever gonna work out.
Tiffany(03:50):
This is wild to hear. So how do people do this? Literally, the, the question all parents ask, but you are asking like, like with the literal time constraints, like literal time constraints and it's only gonna get more, kids are only gonna be doing more. Yeah. They
Monica(04:07):
Had no homework at the time. I mean, my, my oldest was six, so he was like having some practices, but it was like mostly like a weekend game and a practice right before the game. Like it wasn't like a thing yet, you know, . But I can already see like, where is this gonna go? How is this gonna get any better? Yeah.
Tiffany(04:25):
And even thinking this is your parenting life. This is your work life. Work life is however many hours, eight hours a day. Parenting life is also like eight hours a day on top of that. So where's Monica in this story? .
Monica(04:41):
. She wasn't there. She wasn't there. And that, I think that is the hardest thing to accept about how I was living life at the time. But then also like, to fast forward to today, like the greatest transformation, like the biggest win is like, I got me back. Like, can I, like, I just, I got to reconnect with myself and that has changed everything. So
Tiffany(05:09):
Don't jump us ahead, Monica. Don't jump us ahead. Take us back. Okay. So this is 2018. You have somehow you, you, you asked the question, how does anyone do this? You have the idea of like, how did you even get the idea of let me go into private practice? Where did that come from?
Monica(05:23):
Well, so I was working in a private practice in addition to all those eight hour a day responsibilities, , because I think, you know, part of it was like trauma and like, why not just be extra busy and why not just keep avoiding? But I think the other part was that I was starting to envision like, what does it look like to want more than what I have, like, than just the safe job and just the like predictable eight hour day. There was a part of me that wasn't like getting to get that meaty processing work that I wanted with the clients that I was seeing in the school-based setting. So there was like a wanting deeper work. There was a wanting a different rhythm, wanting to work with clients who wanted to be there. So there was some like starting to see some desire.
Monica(06:13):
And so I think that was a big motivator was like I was starting to kind of get a taste for some of that. And so it kind of, again, these conversations with my husband were like, how do we do this? Like with our living in Southern California at the time, three kids daycare, like all the, the expenses, like is it even feasible that I could try this as a full-time thing? And so the decision to kind of get into private practice was really motivated by some of that desire to have more time freedom and energy and, and the money was kind of like, yeah, the belief was the money will be scarce. It probably is gonna be really inconsistent, but maybe I could figure it out. Like that was sort of the belief. But that was end of 2018. And that was taking me to when I started my private practice 2019.
Tiffany(07:12):
2019. You know what's really interesting in how you were sharing your experience just now? I'm already not, I'm already not even doing the rapid fire questions that I was pretending like I was gonna do. We're gonna try to get back to it. But when you were first talking about this, you know, having the private practice on the side, doing this full on parenting full on working for the school, you said how you asked like, how does anyone do this? How does anyone do this? That's the tone. But then when you, in this time as you started envisioning your private practice, you, you are, the way you asked the question was different. You were talking to your husband and you said, how do we do this? Like mm-hmm . How do we actually, so it went from like, how does anyone do this exasperated to like, oh, how do we actually do this? It's very interesting that shift. When did it, do you know when that shift occurred in your mind from like, how does anyone do this to like, wait, we're going to figure this out. How do we do this?
Monica(08:05):
I don't know the exact moment, but I can viscerally remember a sensation of like, this cannot go on. Like there was sort of like a internal decision. I, I shared about this recently in my own story, so I know that I've kind of processed this through a little bit. 2017 was the year my my daughter turned one and my son went to kindergarten, my oldest. And and I wasn't able to go for his first day of school drop off. And so I have a picture of us that morning where I'm like hugging him and he is got his little sign, you know, and I didn't take him because it was also the first day of school for like my students. So I couldn't take that day off. And so I can remember like, that didn't sit well with me. And so I was already looking ahead towards like I got two more that are gonna have their first day of school and like this, this isn't sitting well in my soul . So that was, I know that that was more 20 17, 20 18 was more of the like, okay, how do we do this because this isn't working?
Tiffany(09:28):
I feel that I got felt chills when you told that story. Very. I obviously as a parent, very a lot of grief of being very miss. Oh, yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm . So 2019, you go into your practice and you, you started on insurance panels? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Talk a little bit about that.
Monica(09:48):
So like any good therapist who wants to do all the right things, I met with so many people in trying to figure out how do I do a private practice. I talked to CPAs, I talked to insurance people. I talked to people who are already in private practice. I talked to my therapist who was in private practice, and I tried to figure out like, what do they know? What are they doing? What's the right way to do this? was like literally the belief, like, there's a right way to do this and they're gonna tell me the right way to do this. And what I came up with was that I needed to charge $50 an hour and see a hundred sessions a month in order to make what I was making, you know, to, to recover the cost from what I was letting go of the safe job.
Monica(10:36):
And and I remember talking to some people who were like, you could fill up really fast if you take insurances. And I was like, perfect. Is that the fast way? Great. Put me down for the fast track. Like, yes. And if you know anything about me, you know, that's like totally , that's like mo like put me down for fast. So it was like, again, trying to collect data about like, what are the right insurance panels, which are the ones that are paying the most easiest to work with? Steady referrals. Like, so I did a lot of like talking to figure out what are the right panels. And I came up with three that I was like, okay, those top three, I'll, I'll work with those three only and I will have a hybrid practice that also takes some private pay at $50 an hour.
Monica(11:27):
So I knew that it was gonna be a hybrid. I knew that I was gonna work with limited amount of insurances and I knew I wanted to be selective with the insurances that I was working with. And I also knew that it was really gonna be my goal to only work while my kids were in school. So I had to those six hours, was it, you know. And so that was initially how I sort of structured it. There was a few clients that I took during the evenings not very many weekends. And I, I thought it was like a win. Like, I was like, this is great, this is great. Like, I'm working when the kids are in school, dropping 'em off, picking 'em up, like no big deal.
Tiffany(12:14):
This is the life.
Monica(12:15):
This is the life .
Tiffany(12:16):
So people are listening now who are like, this is the life, but they're having a little tension inside, like, Ooh. So fast forward. You joined Lim, when did you join Lim?
Monica(12:26):
2021.
Tiffany(12:27):
2021. That's for folks who don't know what I'm talking about. We have a program called the Lean in Make Bank Academy. And the reason I'm bringing that up, I mean for all the reasons I'm bringing it up, but one of the reasons I'm bringing it up is because that marks you. Something had to change. Again, you gotta the point where you're like, I'm gonna invest time and money to change something. So fast forward, you have the practice of the dream. You're on the panels, you're making $50 session 2021, just before joining a limb. Why wasn't it working? What was happening?
Monica(12:52):
Well, a little thing called covid kind of shook things up a little bit. for sure, because then I was a working remote therapist not with less boundaries. 'cause Now like the kids weren't in school, so my boundaries were sort of all over the place. When can you see me? Oh, you have to cancel. No big deal. We'll reschedule. What time do you want? What works for you? We're all home all the time. So it was just like me, whatever. And I, I, I can remember feeling like, this is just how it has to be. We're just gonna kind of push through this and then like, we'll figure things out, get to the other side of this eventually. But like, I remember just thinking like, I really kind of hate this. Like, I don't wanna log in, I don't wanna work. Like my kids are in the other room, they're banging on the doors.
Monica(13:40):
Like it was just an absolute mess. . Yeah. But it was like my husband at the time was first responders, so like, he wasn't available. He was first responding and I was also but it was just, it was absolute chaos. And so in 2021 there was some like lifting a little bit like we were coming back to the office and I was starting to again, really take notice of some of those signs that I was burning out again. Like this time it was at my own doing. Like I was the boss. I was the one responsible for the boundaries and the schedule and the fees and all the things. And and I was starting to notice things like I'm not eating in like having time to eat in between sessions or I'm not even having enough time to go to the restroom between sessions or you know, do a note, like do write my notes.
Monica(14:39):
Like just starting to notice some things like that. And also feeling really like irritated, like frustrated, like, oh, it's so rushed. Like it's just, ah I was noticing like feeling a little disconnected from the work. Like, I don't know that I really wanna be here. Maybe I could do another job. Like, you know, maybe I could work in marketing somehow. Like, you know, like just having all these fantasies of not doing what I was doing, which to me were like the familiar red flags of like, okay, something's not working here, it's time to get real time to start figuring this out. So it was probably the, like later part of 2020 when I started finding podcasts about private practice and was like hearing from folks like, you know, private practice startup and abundance practice. Like they're talking about like wellbeing and boundaries and fee raising and things.
Monica(15:40):
Like, I was like, what? We can do this. Like this is , we're allowed to do this in a pa Like what? So I can remember that started to kind of introduce the idea of having more wellbeing in my private practice. So in 2021, I was like actively searching for how do I raise fees with my existing clients. And because I had a hybrid practice, I knew that my insurance clients were at the top of what I was allowed to, to make. So I knew that my cash pay clients were gonna have to subsidize or offset that discrepancy. And it was really more about, it wasn't about making more money, it was almost like, if I have more of these, then I can take less of these and then I won't have to be so tired, I won't have to like work with people who maybe aren't the right fit because they're on the insurance and I have to take them. Maybe I could offset that a little bit. So it wasn't even so much that I was like you know, in a money place, like, I need to make more money. It was really coming from like a recognition that the energy, like the vibes were off. Like, I didn't wanna go to work and I work for myself. So that was kind of like the, something has to give kind of came up again.
Tiffany(17:04):
It's really interesting to hear. And I'm really glad you shared these very, both the feeling of some irritation. Why am I rushing all the time? And also the concrete behaviors of, oh, I'm skipping lunch, you became aware, oh, I'm not eating. Oh, I don't have time to go to the bathroom. Like literal. I cannot, I'm not taking care of my physical body for folks who are listening right now. It's so easy to just get caught up and not even be aware. So I'm hoping the people out there right now who are seeing 30 people a week and have 10 cash pay and 20 on insurance panels can hear, oh, it's not okay to not go to the bathroom between sessions, , it's not okay. I mean, we chuckle, but like, people don't really like, it's, it's not okay to not eat munch or breakfast. We, we, we know now, like, what are we doing? But in that moment you didn't know it was not okay.
Monica(17:58):
No, because the reality was a lot of the ins, you know, a lot of the other providers I had talked with were doing that. Like, they, it was like the running joke. It was like, yeah, I don't have time. Nah. You know, and it was like, oh, but like, we're our own boss, so like, who's going to set that boundary for us? Like, it's literally our fault. Like, so there, there was this whole acceptance, like there was really an acceptance within the culture of the, the, the therapist that I was working with in private practice was just like, this is just what we do. Mm
Tiffany(18:33):
Mm Really interesting. So you start listening to pod. So for some reason you're like, okay, I'm, I'm not, you know yourself enough, you know yourself enough to know like, okay, these are red flags, this is leading to burnout, this is a problem. And you started seeking podcasts starting to figure out, okay, there has to be another way. Yeah. Now it's interesting you are talking about at that time you're thinking was, I don't need, I'm not about, I don't need to make a whole bunch more money. I need some time freedom. I need some space here. And your way to get it was, if I can increase the amount of people paying me cash pay, I can decrease my insurance panels amount of clients doing that, and then I can get a little more freedom and a little more ease. Yeah. So why did you join a program like li which is all about fee raising instead of joining and you might've joined both a program about getting more clients. If you just got more clients who are paying you cash rate, you would be okay.
Monica(19:25):
I didn't wanna work more than the six hours that my kids were in school, so I didn't, I knew that I couldn't just take more clients. I, I was very much aware that like, I am at capacity. I think I had like 80 clients that I was seeing at that time. Yeah. and, and I was doing anywhere between like 25 to 30 sometimes if everybody showed up, it was like 32, 34. Like it was, there was a lot of of sessions in, in that week. So I knew that I didn't want more client work. I knew that I needed more time freedom and that was really what drew me to private practice in the first place was like the promise of this time freedom. And then I went and recreated the exact system I was in at county mental health, back to back appointments, no time for lunch, no paid time off.
Monica(20:18):
Like I just recreated all the same stuff. So I knew I had to make that change and I had some safety to, to make that change. Like to in 2020 before like all the Covid really started, I had raised my fees once before. And I had that like, like safety permission to do that because I was like, well, I have all these insurance people and the study stream of referrals from the insurance and to go from 50 to like a little bit closer to what the insurance was paying me seemed like a no brainer. Like, okay, cool. And I have this to rely on. If they say no, I still could just take more insurance people, right? Like, so there was pretty low risk the first time I raised my rates, but in 2021 it was like I, I knew I still had the insurance people, but I, I was, I think there was a part of me that was afraid of creating that space. Like letting, like, okay, I'm just not gonna take any more cash pay people. I'm just not gonna take any, you know, insurance people. Like, I'm just gonna work this like less and make less money. Like, that was like not a choice with, with three kids in, you know, daycare and things like that. Like the idea of making less money was like not a choice. So I couldn't, I didn't have enough freedom or permission to just say no. So I knew some the only way to make that work was to raise the rate.
Tiffany(21:47):
It's pretty interesting, huh? So not a, it was not a choice. Making less money was not a choice. So fast forward us to today, what is it? It says 2024. Well, some years later tell five, oh my gosh, 2025. It's 2025. Wow. I'm off. What is your fee? How many clients do you see at this fee and what's your insurance panel situation like now?
Monica(22:12):
Okay, so when I joined Lim, I never intended to get off insurances. I was like, I was gonna raise for my private and that'll offset and we'll be fine. And so when I, when I got into Lim and I realized again, that, that my cash, I was asking my cash pay to basically offset the cost of the insurance. E eventually looking at that and some of the beliefs that I had about the insurance clients and some of the work and the ways that I was showing up to the work with the insurance versus the cash pay clients, it just didn't really sit well with me. So after kind of being with that for some time is when I decided, like, okay, this was end of 2021, beginning of 2022, I knew I was gonna be moving out of state and moving exclusively to online again.
Monica(23:07):
And so I knew like, hey, this is a good ending point. Like, I'm not going to, not gonna be a hybrid practice anymore at that point. I'm just gonna be cash pay at that point. So when I joined limb in 2021, that was not the plan, but by 2022 we were rolling . So my, my fee now is two 50 an hour and I am seeing about 10 folks a week which is awesome. It's amazing. I, you know, mostly Mondays don't see any clients unless they're, you know rescheduling from, from something that came up. But yeah, it's, it's great.
Tiffany(23:51):
Wild. So from, you know, up to six clients a day, up to five days a week, I'm parenting full-time to 10 clients. not working one day. Like what the? Talk about space. What is, what is when comparing 2018 even, let's even go into private practice 2019 insurance practice, Monica, with, I see 10 clients a week at two 50. Monica, how has your day to day life changed?
Monica(24:21):
Mm. So much has changed. There's so much more time freedom more energy to show up for the things that I really wanna be showing up for. I think again, in, in, in 2019, it was like, how do I get this as fast as possible? How do I just recreate everything that's familiar to me? How do I not shake things up too much and like keep everything the same? And now I'm in a place where I'm like, what if this could be different? What if like, that could happen? There's more curiosity, there's more experimentation, like a permission to just, let's just see how that goes. A lot less urgency. And so when I think about how that must feel for my kids mm-hmm . Like, as opposed to the hurry up, we're gonna be late. Let's go chop chop, you know, to now it's like, you know, I'm sitting on the couch drinking my coffee while they're getting ready for school and, you know, I'm making them breakfast and taking them and then, you know, picking them up so they don't have to ride the bus or they don't have to, you know, go to daycare.
Monica(25:36):
Like, I get to just be there and, and when I'm there, I'm present. You know, I'm not like rushing them to the next thing. I'm, I'm with them.
Tiffany(25:47):
I, I'm very moved hearing. It makes me think you could feel free to answer this or not. I'm thinking about little Monica and the kind of parents not 'cause they were bad. They were doing the best they could, but what did that, Monica, what kind of parent did that Monica get?
Monica(26:00):
I had two working parents who came from poverty. So they were each one of eight and they were each the middle of the eight . So they, they were used to chaos and I think they did a really good job protecting us from that. Me and my brother. But what I saw was, was people who really, truly believed that the best thing that they could do for their family was work really hard, work really hard and give them opportunities and security. And that was the way. And I think that it was a way . And, and I think it's, I'm so grateful that they worked so hard. But when I think about like, getting to be there for my kids' practice or getting to be there for the silly little 10 minute classroom party that it's like, really takes me more time to leave my house and get to the school, which is not far, but like, it takes me more time to do that than the actual like participating in the classroom activity thing. But like, their mom shows up for that and their little faces, you know, like, ugh, like that was the stuff I was missing, you know? And that was the stuff that little Monica didn't have because her parents were working. So yeah, so just the importance of that for me and for them it's, it's so, so much has changed.
Tiffany(27:37):
Well, so this is something I haven't, I haven't, I haven't quite figured it out. You've done it when, when I'm talking with therapists about the possibilities, what could be for them. This, this, I didn't send you this question, so good luck with it. Something I hear is, that sounds nice, Tiffany, but who the in the hell has the time? Like, I don't, I can't, I don't have the money or time or the energy to go from having, you know, 80 people on my caseload or 50 and seeing 30 a week and trying to pick up my kids. How do I, I can't even get enough traction to breathe much less. Like, read this email from you. How did, how did you navigate that, that first little finger hold into having time to even start this process or this thinking?
Monica(28:27):
Mm-Hmm . Mm. Back in 2021. Just getting started and, and really getting into the curriculum. I will say for me I was definitely in that survival mode. There was definitely my, my burnout sounded a lot like, there's not enough time, but it was, that was absolutely the story of my burnout. There's never enough. Which is the scarcity belief, which definitely tied into my money stuff. But the not enough was so, so loud. But what I'll say is, like when I was listening to the , the recordings on 1.25 speed and trying to like write in my little, you know, my little worksheet, you know, on my phone on, you know, my little docs app, you know, like that was, you know, that little bit of effort. What it did was, it, it actually, it became even more addicting. Like, it was like, I wanna listen to the next one.
Monica(29:41):
Like, I, it, it, it wasn't about like, Ooh, I don't have enough time. It was like, I gotta listen to that. And I can even remember my kids at the time, this is hilarious, but they know your voice. They know like, oh, that's Tiffany. Like, my, are you, because they, they were so little and they could hear me like listening to a recording or watching the replay. And I can remember even just when I went to apply to be the mentor, just feeling like I'm an imposter because I didn't get to go to very many live calls. Like I had clients. I was in back to back appointments for six hours. So I got, I was watching the replay that night while I was making dinner, or, you know, after the kids went to bed. Like that's, you know, on 1.25 speed . That was like, that was, that was what it looked like in the beginning. But it became this like obsession where it was like, I, I need to understand this. I, it was, it was moving and shaking up things internally that there was this part of me that was like, yes, this is what we've been needing. This is what we've been missing.
Tiffany(30:44):
When you asked that question to your husband how do people do this? How, how are we gonna do this? You started getting you, when you started looking for, not asking a hypothetically, but really asking it, you then started finding answers and you wanted more of this world, this paradigm.
Monica(31:00):
Yeah.
Tiffany(31:04):
I love this conversation also. You mentioned being a mentor folks. Monica's a mentor. She was a mentor for Lim. So you, you came and did office hours and then you left and then you came back. 'cause We were like, we want more Monica. So you actually mentoring again. So you also have space, or you've created space to come back and help therapists with this too, who are two or three or 20 steps behind where you are now. You're there to help folks. How do you, why do you do this?
Monica(31:26):
Because it's literally changed every aspect of who I am and like, how could I not, like, again, this is part of the, the space that has been created is just the space to, to, to give. And, and I think that's an unexpected gain of doing the money work and the scarcity work is realizing that like, oh, I can give more. Like, it's not just like this. Sometimes we have these stories about like, oh, I'm just being greedy, or I'm just gonna be one of those people, right. And I'm gonna be a taker. And it's like, no kindhearted conscientious people when they have money, they're givers. Right? Like they give back and, and it's, and it's amazing. And so it's like, again, goes to speak to the, an idea that like money in the hands of good people does great things.
Tiffany(32:21):
Yeah. Money and time you spend both. Yeah.
Tiffany(32:27):
Speaking of scarcity, I heard someone DMed me, I think, and she was like, this all sounds good. This all this whole like, cash pay, PMP practice thing. That could have worked maybe like in 2023, but it can't work now. I, I think there's some, I mean, that's always people, people have a different, that's always a story, but there's a different thing to different like mask to put on it. Like, here's why it's not gonna work now. Or here's Covid is not gonna work, or Now Trump won is not gonna work. Or now oh Biden won. It's not gonna work. Whatever the reason, it's, it's not gonna work. So just briefly talk to me about marketing. What's, what are you finding has worked for you to actually find and work with really amazing fit clients who are willing to pay you two 50 per session?
Monica(33:11):
Okay. So I'm doing new. So 2022, I also launched, relaunched my website, worked with, you know, great programs on marketing. This year I am really getting more support on SEO. So that's something I've been able to invest in. Networking, just again, connecting myself and networking with other premium fee therapist. So community and and growing that community. A number of those folks I know through Lim. But even when I'm out networking with other private pay therapists I have an ability to d like determine who has done some of the money story work, like has, has really engaged with some of their subconscious beliefs. And so then we can kind of connect and grow and, and share you know, word of mouth and get, get our names out there even in a bigger way. And I do podcasting. So those are like the main things that I've been doing for my private practices, my website networking and, and podcast casting.
Tiffany(34:16):
Very cool. Getting out there. Also, it's interesting to hear like the 2019, Monica could not have been able to discern which clinicians to spend time with to do thoughtful networking, to be able to build a referral stream and network.
Monica(34:28):
It's so different. And, and I think a lot of people who feel frustrated with networking, like, it's not working for me. It's like, well , let's, let's check in on what's the vibes. Like, what is the subconscious stuff that's going on between you? Because if you are networking with somebody in a, in a not thoughtful way sometimes their biases or their beliefs about what it means for you to be a private pay, premium fee therapist could be part of what's blocking them from seeing you as, you know, the perfect fit clinician for the people that they could refer you to. Right? They might say like, well, you know, but it's like, no. Like that's the perfect person. But that's where again, having that mindful, intentional networking strategy is really helpful.
Tiffany(35:15):
Yeah. I love it. And being, I you and you being the person, I, I'm even thinking we're, we're gonna jump into this in a moment. I'm even thinking the Monica, who was so deep in the survival mode, who realized holy, I couldn't, I can't come to my son's kindergarten date. And some that woke you up, but it was tolerable up until that moment. It was tolerable. The, and then that, that became, this is intolerable. I'm not doing this for my next two kids and I, and I'm gonna show up better for my son. I'm not, I'm not tolerating that anymore. The Monica who tolerated it is not a Monica who can go out and find a premium fee clients or attract them or keep them the Monica who's saying, I'm, I'm not, I, I'm living a different kind of life now. I'm not doing it that old way that Monica can attract people who understand and are willing to pay for having access to that kind of Monica
Monica(36:06):
Mm-Hmm . Yeah. I, that to me that work was nervous system work and learning how to regulate my nervous system and hold space for freedom. How hold space for abundance and being able to, to feel safe, to take up space and to expand and to, to not work harder, but but receive, right. Still being able to receive, even though I wasn't working really hard that I didn't have to keep staying in the story of like, I have to be excessively busy for no good reason. Like I could just hold the space and, and that Monica deserves premium fees because she's amazing at what she does. .
Tiffany(36:54):
And so few people, especially therapists who are willing to hold that space. There are so many therapists who are will, there's, so there are so few therapists who are willing to hold that intentional space and, and, and occupy it. So many of therapists are doing just what you used to do, scrambling, running, urgent filling, working hard. Like you can get $80 if you're that therapist, the therapist who's willing to hold space. Oh,
Monica(37:19):
Alright. And we, we have to do it for ourselves first.
Tiffany(37:22):
Yeah, a hundred percent. That's right.
Monica(37:23):
Yeah. We like, if, if I'm, the, the story that I had was that I, I, I graded holding space for my clients while I was rushing in and out of the room and throwing them out. like, I felt like I'm at holding space when they're in the office with me. But I think subconsciously, energetically, and no, I wasn't. And that's one of the hard realities that sometimes you have to like, sit in community with and go like, oh my gosh. Like, we have to grieve that reality that like, I'm not doing the best clinical work that I could be doing. And that's where limb really like, like, help me hold that for myself. Like, exactly dagger in the heart. Like, yeah, that was a hard one.
Tiffany(38:07):
I'm glad you shared that. 'cause When I say holding space, I'm sure 90% of the therapists out there who are maybe struggling and scrambling and rushing, they're like, oh, well good. At least I know how to hold space. And you're like, no, what you're doing, if you're saying 30 people a week, you are lying to yourself. If you are thinking you're showing up in that space, in that office and holding space for them. You don't even know what it means to hold space at the pace you're doing.
Monica(38:34):
I compassion for that therapist though. 'cause Like they really, they have to believe that they are doing a great job holding that space because they have to keep operating in that survival mode. And, and I just wanna like interrupt that with like, no, you don't, you really don't. It's okay to look at that honestly and take some radical responsibility for what that might mean.
Tiffany(39:01):
You said something to me, I don't know, when we were just talking, I don't know where you even said this to me. You said this thing about you said so many parents say they wanna, they wanna, they would die for their kids. Can you say something about this concept?
Monica(39:18):
So, you know, within the concept of like, being really honest with ourselves, like, one of the things that I have had to confront is this belief of like, I'm doing anything for my kids. Like I, you know, I say that like, I would do anything. What want, what do I need to help them grow to thrive? Like I would do anything. And, and I think what that means is then I have to be willing and able to take responsibility to make myself big, to, to stop playing a martyr, to, to expand and you know, start confronting these stories. Like I have to be willing to also live for them. And, and so that, that means like I have to have the courage and the radical responsibility to show the f up. And like, I can't keep hiding and playing small and living in this like, fear and scarcity thing.
Monica(40:17):
Like, I also have to be willing to get healthy for them and to thrive for them and to learn how to do things that scare me for them and like, take breaks and rest and like recharge myself for them. Like, that's part of like, if I would do anything for them that's not just like, nah, die on my sword for them. Like that's, that's a version of strength. But the, the bigger picture that I am recognizing is like, if I would do anything for them, then that means that I have to do some of the softer, slower, more tender, more vulnerable things for them too. And, and in my case, that means learning how to grow generational wealth and freedom and energy for them without dying on the battlefield. Not to live with them and enjoy that. You know.
Tiffany(41:09):
So I love this. I love when you said this, I even think about the analogy of like how we're gonna jump in front of a car for our kids. It's like, what a again, we say this with all compassion 'cause we've all been there, but like, what an easy, what a cop out. I I'm gonna jump in front of a car to save my kid, but I'm not gonna be willing to pare down my practice so I can actually show up for their kindergarten class for that 10 minutes. Like what? Talk about like, what takes more courage, jumping in front of a non-existent car one day and demanding it or saying I'm gonna make a change to my day-to-day schedule by raising my fees and actually
Monica(41:40):
, I'm not, I'm not gonna work nights and weekends. Yeah. I'm not gonna take this client that, that leaves me so drained that by the time I get home I just wanna numb out and throw 'em an iPad and scroll my phone. Like, I'm not gonna keep doing that. Yeah. You know? Yeah. That's
Tiffany(41:55):
For folks listening. Yeah. I love this. Monica said, are you willing to live mm-hmm. For your children? Are you willing to live? People listening by the way are like, Monica, I want more of a Monica selling. I want a little taste of that. What do you, can you, do you help therapists? How do you think, how, how, how can people know more about you, work with you?
Monica(42:15):
Yeah. So to work with me through the therapy house, if you're in California, Texas, you can find me at my website, which is just my name, Monica help me.com. And you can fill out the contact form and just select what service you're interested in. And if you are interested in like, burnout, recovery and nervous system work and being able to really do the energetic piece of, of this work so that you can really call in the rate and hold it. You can find that information over at my website, business of thriving.com, or you can just come say hi to me on our Instagram and it's just Monica healthy l mft.
Tiffany(42:55):
I will, we'll make sure to post your Instagram and you have a great Instagram, you're always posting cool jams, thoughtful things like really addressing this, all of this stuff around burnout. Are we gonna live? How are we gonna show up? Especially as therapists, and I'll say, if you are a therapist, this is gonna be hard, this is gonna be a challenge. But if you feel like, man, what Monica's talking about really resonates with me if you're in California or Texas, set up a session, even one session and see what it, see what it looks like, feel what it tastes like to sit across from a therapist who went from being on panels burnt out, you know, selling her soul to like confidently sitting and charging 250% and see what it, just find that two 50, you might be like, it's impossible. It's scarce. But the experience of, of actually making these quote unquote sacrifice, making the investment to sit with somebody who has done this work worth so much more than 200. Like, it's priceless. It's priceless. So monica vy.com, lean in Monica hel Instagram too. Mm-Hmm.
Monica(43:54):
Monica hel l mft Instagram
Tiffany(43:56):
Mft.
Monica(43:57):
Yeah.
Tiffany(43:57):
Final thought.
Monica(43:58):
Yeah. I, I just, I really wanna drive home the point that when, when you learn, when you're a good-hearted person and you learn how to make money, you're not just gonna buy things. You're going to take that money and you're gonna build a legacy. You're gonna fund your dreams. You're gonna lift up your, your families and your loved ones and your partners. And, and I know for me, like my husband's life is so much more fulfilled and aligned because of the work I did. And, and when I think about that impact alone on what that's had on our kids and our family, it's massive. So again, if you're gonna say you're gonna do anything for your kids, have the courage to show the f up and live for them.
Tiffany(44:46):
Yeah. We might have to have you back for part two. We didn't even get, we didn't even get into how you doing this work allowed your husband to totally change his careers and do what he loved, which is a whole nother episode. So Monica, we gotta get you back on the podcast.
Monica(44:58):
I'm here for it. Let's do it
Tiffany(44:59):
Folks. Monica helvie.com. Monica Helvie, LMFT. Go find Monica, learn have a taste of the rainbow. Monica, thank you.
Monica(45:10):
You're thanks.