WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:03.140 Hello and welcome to The Unique CPA with your host, 00:03.140 --> 00:04.660 Randy Crabtree. 00:04.660 --> 00:06.840 We're committed to creating a thriving community 00:06.840 --> 00:08.800 of accounting professionals who are physically 00:08.800 --> 00:10.840 and mentally healthy, fulfilled, 00:10.840 --> 00:13.060 and energized by their work. 00:13.060 --> 00:15.280 Our ultimate goal is to elevate the reputation 00:15.280 --> 00:17.480 of the accounting profession and vastly improve 00:17.480 --> 00:19.460 the lives of those in it. 00:19.460 --> 00:22.080 The Unique CPA is brought to you by TriMerit, 00:22.080 --> 00:24.600 the specialty tax professionals. 00:24.600 --> 00:26.940 Today our guest is Alan Whitman. 00:26.940 --> 00:30.820 Alan is currently an advisor and coach to CEOs 00:30.820 --> 00:32.740 in his past life. 00:32.740 --> 00:36.020 He was CEO and chairman of Baker Tilly 00:36.020 --> 00:38.700 and held that role for many years. 00:38.700 --> 00:41.780 Very much experienced obviously in the profession 00:41.780 --> 00:44.180 that we all love, or hopefully most of us love, 00:44.180 --> 00:45.700 but there's some things Alan wants to do 00:45.700 --> 00:48.240 to help us all love this better. 00:48.240 --> 00:50.900 Before we jump in, welcome Alan, 00:50.900 --> 00:52.780 welcome to The Unique CPA. 00:52.780 --> 00:54.460 Thanks Randy, I'm really happy to be here 00:54.460 --> 00:56.400 and we will talk about some good stuff 00:56.400 --> 01:00.000 about how I would think we need to change the profession 01:00.000 --> 01:02.200 if it's gonna be sustainable long in the future, 01:02.200 --> 01:05.680 be more attractive, modernize our great profession. 01:05.680 --> 01:07.480 And I do love the profession. 01:07.480 --> 01:10.160 I've been in it since I got out of university. 01:10.160 --> 01:12.440 It's done great things for me and I wanna help it 01:12.440 --> 01:14.920 do great things for many others long into the future. 01:14.920 --> 01:17.560 You know, that's the exact same thing I say too. 01:17.560 --> 01:21.160 It's an awesome profession and took me a long time 01:21.160 --> 01:23.960 to realize how to do the profession right, 01:23.960 --> 01:25.800 at least in my mind. 01:25.800 --> 01:28.280 But there's so many things we can do different. 01:28.280 --> 01:29.400 So before we jump into that, 01:29.400 --> 01:31.480 cause I'm gonna set the stage here a second. 01:31.480 --> 01:33.680 You and I talked a few weeks ago 01:33.680 --> 01:36.960 and I knew more about you than going into the conversation. 01:36.960 --> 01:41.960 But if I was originally gonna talk to a CEO 01:42.160 --> 01:44.800 of a large accounting firm, 01:44.800 --> 01:48.520 I would have had a complete bias probably 01:48.520 --> 01:51.000 in a different direction than the conversation we had. 01:51.000 --> 01:52.880 Because when you and I started talking 01:52.880 --> 01:54.960 and I knew this was the things you talked about, 01:55.000 --> 01:56.720 it was like, yeah, we need to change this. 01:56.720 --> 01:57.920 There's things we can do better. 01:57.920 --> 02:01.640 There's archaic things that we're doing in our profession 02:01.640 --> 02:03.560 that is hurting the profession. 02:03.560 --> 02:04.560 And those are my words. 02:04.560 --> 02:07.040 You didn't say that, but I'm just thinking 02:07.040 --> 02:08.120 you probably agree. 02:08.120 --> 02:11.640 And so you actually have come out and you've trademarked 02:11.640 --> 02:13.520 and you can tell me if I got it right or not, 02:13.520 --> 02:15.160 but you know, breaking the mold. 02:15.160 --> 02:16.640 Is it breaking the mold in the profession 02:16.640 --> 02:17.460 or break the mold? 02:17.460 --> 02:19.720 What is the term that you've done? 02:19.720 --> 02:21.360 Well, certainly it's break the mold. 02:21.360 --> 02:23.280 That's what I've trademarked. 02:23.280 --> 02:25.840 And it's breaking the mold in the CPA profession, 02:25.840 --> 02:29.080 but actually more generally in just professional services. 02:29.080 --> 02:32.160 You know, people driven businesses, you know, 02:32.160 --> 02:35.200 it leaves the building every night in the elevator 02:35.200 --> 02:37.280 or when you turn your wifi off. 02:37.280 --> 02:40.320 It's where I grew up, certainly the CPA profession 02:40.320 --> 02:41.280 that's near and dear to my heart. 02:41.280 --> 02:43.040 I know about that the best. 02:43.040 --> 02:44.200 All of what I'm talking about 02:44.200 --> 02:46.960 applies to professional services in general. 02:46.960 --> 02:48.520 Okay, and I'm gonna wanna get into that, 02:48.520 --> 02:50.520 but I wanna give you an opportunity to expand 02:50.520 --> 02:52.840 on my little teeny intro I did there. 02:52.840 --> 02:54.520 Why don't you give us a little background on you 02:54.520 --> 02:57.960 and maybe your journey to a CEO and chairman of Baker Tilly 02:57.960 --> 02:59.680 and then what you're doing today. 02:59.680 --> 03:00.960 Yeah, well, like everybody, 03:00.960 --> 03:03.800 I was a bright-eyed young associate 03:03.800 --> 03:06.080 at one of the big eight back in 1987. 03:06.080 --> 03:08.160 And so I'm a public accounting brat. 03:08.160 --> 03:12.160 I grew up on the tax side, joined a couple of firms 03:12.160 --> 03:14.080 and then left the big four 03:14.080 --> 03:16.360 and joined what is now Baker Tilly 03:16.360 --> 03:17.640 and was immediately asked 03:17.640 --> 03:19.680 to build an international platform. 03:19.680 --> 03:22.440 And neither my predecessor nor I knew what that meant. 03:23.080 --> 03:23.920 And we both looked at each other and said, 03:23.920 --> 03:25.440 well, we'll figure it out along the way. 03:25.440 --> 03:27.720 I enjoy existing in the abstract 03:27.720 --> 03:29.880 and I enjoy existing in things 03:29.880 --> 03:33.320 that are less figured out, frankly. 03:33.320 --> 03:36.600 We need to build it as we're going down the road. 03:36.600 --> 03:38.640 So I did that for a number of years, 03:38.640 --> 03:41.400 had the great fortune of traveling around the world, 03:41.400 --> 03:42.920 meeting people throughout the network, 03:42.920 --> 03:44.680 the Baker Tilly network. 03:44.680 --> 03:46.040 And it made me who I am today. 03:46.040 --> 03:48.160 I understand different cultures. 03:48.160 --> 03:50.360 I've learned from thousands of people, 03:50.360 --> 03:52.600 tens of thousands of people around the world. 03:52.600 --> 03:54.160 And that's made me who I am today. 03:54.160 --> 03:57.040 And it's made me a person that's really, really curious 03:57.040 --> 03:58.840 about what's next. 03:58.840 --> 04:01.360 It's made me a person who's really curious about, 04:01.360 --> 04:03.040 well, why do we do it this way? 04:03.040 --> 04:04.840 Isn't there a better way? 04:04.840 --> 04:08.560 And then I was elected by the board of Baker Tilly 04:08.560 --> 04:11.040 in I think the fall of 2014. 04:11.040 --> 04:13.120 I began leading the firm. 04:13.120 --> 04:15.440 When my predecessor became the chairman of the AICPA, 04:15.440 --> 04:17.560 Tim Christian, great mentor of mine, 04:17.600 --> 04:20.560 became the chair of the AICPA in June of 15. 04:20.560 --> 04:23.040 And that's when my run began. 04:23.040 --> 04:26.400 And it was a glorious experience. 04:26.400 --> 04:31.400 It was a wonderful run that many people had a hand in. 04:31.760 --> 04:34.360 We took the firm from 475 million in revenue 04:34.360 --> 04:37.160 to a billion five when I recently retired 04:37.160 --> 04:39.320 from Baker Tilly last winter 04:39.320 --> 04:43.080 and did a number of acquisitions, entered new markets, 04:43.080 --> 04:45.120 became a global organization, 04:45.120 --> 04:48.400 elevated the people aspect of the business 04:48.400 --> 04:52.120 from the high level it was when I became the CEO. 04:52.120 --> 04:54.440 And we had a great time doing it. 04:54.440 --> 04:57.360 And along the way, as I like to say, 04:57.360 --> 04:59.680 executing strategy is running the business 04:59.680 --> 05:00.640 and transforming it. 05:00.640 --> 05:02.480 Not, we stopped transformation 05:02.480 --> 05:03.320 when we got to run the business. 05:03.320 --> 05:05.880 It's a both and. 05:05.880 --> 05:07.880 We started breaking the mold. 05:07.880 --> 05:11.840 We started breaking down the preconceived biases. 05:11.840 --> 05:15.000 And we've always done it that way. 05:15.880 --> 05:17.520 To try to build a new model, 05:17.520 --> 05:20.560 because in my mind, the profession, 05:20.560 --> 05:24.200 as wonderful as it is, has gotten a little stale. 05:24.200 --> 05:25.040 Yes. 05:25.040 --> 05:26.280 And why is it stale, Randy? 05:26.280 --> 05:27.160 I believe it's stale 05:27.160 --> 05:30.800 because the firms haven't modernized themselves. 05:30.800 --> 05:34.360 And so, I'm sure you've done quite a bit of research 05:34.360 --> 05:37.360 and interviewing on the CPA storage 05:37.360 --> 05:38.440 coming out of university. 05:38.440 --> 05:39.280 Yes. 05:39.280 --> 05:41.360 I have the honor of sitting on the AICPA board. 05:41.360 --> 05:44.920 So I'm in my second of three years, the three year term. 05:45.840 --> 05:46.680 And we talk about that a lot. 05:46.680 --> 05:50.880 And I am consistent in my comments to the board 05:50.880 --> 05:53.880 and the leadership of the AICPA that, 05:53.880 --> 05:55.800 yeah, there's all sorts of issues with education. 05:55.800 --> 05:59.400 I know the 150 hour issue is out there. 05:59.400 --> 06:03.320 I believe that the onus is on the firms 06:03.320 --> 06:05.720 to become sexy again, if you will. 06:05.720 --> 06:06.800 Yeah. 06:06.800 --> 06:11.440 In order to attract more CPAs into the profession. 06:11.440 --> 06:13.280 Because as I see it, 06:13.280 --> 06:15.760 there's a lot of professions that work hard. 06:15.760 --> 06:18.400 Think of investment banking, think of private equity, 06:18.400 --> 06:22.040 think of becoming a doctor, becoming a lawyer. 06:22.040 --> 06:24.320 There's a lot of professions that are tough 06:24.320 --> 06:27.080 and where you work a lot of hours. 06:27.080 --> 06:29.560 So it's not about hours in my mind. 06:29.560 --> 06:31.800 And those professions are getting plenty of people 06:31.800 --> 06:33.320 coming into their profession. 06:33.320 --> 06:36.640 So why are they and we're not? 06:36.640 --> 06:39.040 And I believe it's frankly, 06:39.040 --> 06:41.040 it has to do with many of the archaic ways 06:41.080 --> 06:43.880 in which we run our business. 06:43.880 --> 06:46.800 The CPA profession runs its business 06:46.800 --> 06:47.640 and that needs to change. 06:47.640 --> 06:49.480 And so that's the premise of break the mold. 06:49.480 --> 06:50.320 Break the mold. 06:50.320 --> 06:52.200 That's the premise of really my, 06:52.200 --> 06:54.800 who I am as a person, as an advisor, 06:54.800 --> 06:56.480 as a coach, as a CEO. 06:56.480 --> 06:59.720 And I'm still bullish that we're gonna get it done. 06:59.720 --> 07:03.040 Yeah, that's great to hear because I am too. 07:03.040 --> 07:05.360 I'm very excited about, 07:05.360 --> 07:07.000 and I think you and I may have talked about this 07:07.000 --> 07:09.080 a few weeks ago, what I've seen 07:09.080 --> 07:11.400 and I'm seeing these younger startup firms 07:11.400 --> 07:14.920 just doing things so much different. 07:14.920 --> 07:16.080 They're breaking the mold. 07:16.080 --> 07:17.760 Where the older legacy firms, 07:17.760 --> 07:19.800 I don't think there's much, hopefully are. 07:19.800 --> 07:22.440 I assume with you at the helm, 07:22.440 --> 07:26.440 Baker Tilly was looking at things differently 07:26.440 --> 07:27.640 while you were there. 07:27.640 --> 07:29.640 Were there certain things that you implemented there 07:29.640 --> 07:32.720 that you think fell into that break the mold? 07:32.720 --> 07:33.560 You know, I wanna, 07:33.560 --> 07:34.760 I'll answer your question in a second. 07:34.760 --> 07:38.960 I wanna step into what you just said about smaller firms. 07:39.840 --> 07:42.360 I was at a meeting with a number of council members, 07:42.360 --> 07:44.040 AICPA council members. 07:44.040 --> 07:46.280 And I made a comment to a young guy 07:46.280 --> 07:48.840 who bought a small CPA firm. 07:48.840 --> 07:50.000 And I said, you know, 07:50.000 --> 07:51.720 I think the larger firms have a better chance 07:51.720 --> 07:53.160 of doing this than the smaller ones. 07:53.160 --> 07:55.920 And he actually very appropriately corrected me. 07:55.920 --> 07:58.280 He said, you're not right, Alan. 07:58.280 --> 08:00.800 The smaller firms are the ones that don't have the biases. 08:00.800 --> 08:03.080 We can shift very easily. 08:03.080 --> 08:05.200 And I sat back and I'm like, well, duh. 08:05.200 --> 08:07.040 Yeah, of course. 08:07.040 --> 08:10.440 And so it actually flies right into one of the ways 08:10.440 --> 08:13.400 that I look at how to solve complex 08:13.400 --> 08:15.360 or complicated situations. 08:15.360 --> 08:17.280 And that is whiteboard. 08:17.280 --> 08:20.360 Get rid of all of the influences, the negative influences. 08:20.360 --> 08:22.800 And just, if you were to build it from scratch, 08:22.800 --> 08:25.040 whatever it is, whether it's a promotion, 08:25.040 --> 08:27.560 whether it's a new business line, what have you, 08:27.560 --> 08:30.080 if you were to build from scratch, how would you build it? 08:30.080 --> 08:32.880 And then layer on all the intricacies 08:32.880 --> 08:34.600 and all the yeah, buts and all the, 08:34.600 --> 08:36.760 well, this is gonna upset this person or that person, 08:37.640 --> 08:38.880 that's how you break the mold. 08:38.880 --> 08:42.240 As opposed to try to start from where you are, 08:42.240 --> 08:43.080 you'll never get there. 08:43.080 --> 08:44.600 Right, right. 08:44.600 --> 08:46.000 I think we are, and you've mentioned it, 08:46.000 --> 08:49.480 we are very, very much a Sally profession. 08:50.600 --> 08:52.200 But it's also kind of ingrained in us. 08:52.200 --> 08:55.320 Consistency, this is accounting and that. 08:55.320 --> 08:58.080 And so I think that kind of somewhat holds us back. 08:58.080 --> 09:02.720 It's also, and you know, this profession, 09:02.720 --> 09:03.960 we can do very well in it. 09:04.000 --> 09:06.840 I mean, the money is tremendous. 09:06.840 --> 09:09.160 And so I think people get the mindset, 09:09.160 --> 09:12.160 well, hey, I'm making, you know, whatever, 09:12.160 --> 09:14.720 700,000, a million dollars, whatever the numbers are. 09:14.720 --> 09:16.840 Why do I wanna change anything? 09:16.840 --> 09:19.280 This is, I mean, I'm doing well. 09:19.280 --> 09:21.080 The next generation can change. 09:21.080 --> 09:23.320 Right now, I just need to get through the next 10 years. 09:23.320 --> 09:24.880 I don't wanna change. 09:24.880 --> 09:28.160 So boy, I'm kind of probably jumping ahead of myself. 09:28.160 --> 09:31.080 But do you believe that mindset 09:31.080 --> 09:33.520 or just the fact that we can do so well 09:33.880 --> 09:36.320 and why make a change is holding us back 09:36.320 --> 09:37.640 from breaking that mold? 09:37.640 --> 09:38.920 Oh, without question. 09:40.760 --> 09:42.560 I'm ready, but you go first. 09:42.560 --> 09:43.920 I'll change, but you go first. 09:43.920 --> 09:45.720 So yeah, and I appreciate that. 09:45.720 --> 09:48.040 And that's why the profession 09:48.040 --> 09:52.880 or anything needs bold leaders to say, yeah, I get that. 09:52.880 --> 09:55.720 We're still going to kind of push the envelope. 09:55.720 --> 09:57.560 And look, it's not either or. 09:57.560 --> 10:01.520 I'm either gonna change or I'm gonna keep my compensation. 10:01.520 --> 10:02.480 Maybe it's a both and. 10:02.480 --> 10:05.200 I'm gonna keep running the business in an optimal way 10:05.200 --> 10:07.040 and transform it. 10:07.040 --> 10:09.200 We have to have a both and mindset. 10:09.200 --> 10:10.440 You asked me a few minutes ago. 10:10.440 --> 10:13.200 So what were the things that we were trying to begin 10:13.200 --> 10:14.360 when I was at Baker-Tilley? 10:14.360 --> 10:15.200 Yes. 10:15.200 --> 10:18.800 Look, and some firms have already done this, right? 10:18.800 --> 10:21.760 Disconnect days was something that Baker-Tilley put in place. 10:21.760 --> 10:24.280 And that came out of COVID 10:24.280 --> 10:26.400 and basically shut the office down 10:26.400 --> 10:29.920 where nobody feels like they needed to answer an email. 10:29.920 --> 10:32.960 And many people are like, oh, I can't do that. 10:32.960 --> 10:34.880 My client won't allow me. 10:34.880 --> 10:36.520 Well, then tell your client we're doing it 10:36.520 --> 10:38.520 for the benefit of the people and for their culture 10:38.520 --> 10:40.160 and for their psyche. 10:40.160 --> 10:42.480 They're people too, they'll get it. 10:42.480 --> 10:45.040 We started talking about four day work weeks. 10:45.040 --> 10:49.200 We started the process of rather than production, 10:49.200 --> 10:53.080 meaning hours, let's shift from production 10:53.080 --> 10:55.720 to outcomes, to value. 10:55.720 --> 10:56.640 Oh yeah. 10:56.640 --> 10:58.920 Look, that was a hard one. 10:58.920 --> 11:00.560 But as some of the people started thinking about it, 11:00.560 --> 11:01.560 well, wait a minute. 11:01.560 --> 11:04.840 In busy season, I have, 11:04.840 --> 11:07.200 let's say I've got 15 audits to do 11:07.200 --> 11:08.840 or a hundred tax returns. 11:08.840 --> 11:11.000 I know the fees for that. 11:11.000 --> 11:14.400 So putting in hours, all that is, 11:14.400 --> 11:16.400 it's an accounting entry 11:16.400 --> 11:20.480 so that we can do percentage of completion basically, right? 11:20.480 --> 11:23.040 And my quip back to that is 11:23.040 --> 11:25.840 with the realization of the write-ups that occur, 11:25.840 --> 11:27.800 how do you know it's right? 11:27.800 --> 11:28.640 Right? 11:29.320 --> 11:31.080 I know how many hours I put in as a young associate. 11:31.080 --> 11:32.720 I didn't know anything. 11:32.720 --> 11:34.880 I just, you know, I just charged. 11:34.880 --> 11:36.480 Doesn't mean those hours were good. 11:36.480 --> 11:39.680 So how do you know the input is even good, right? 11:39.680 --> 11:41.360 And so then we get to the point of, 11:41.360 --> 11:43.280 well, maybe we need to be better project managers. 11:43.280 --> 11:45.600 So I'm like, ah, there you go. 11:45.600 --> 11:48.640 And unfortunately, I'm a tax guy. 11:48.640 --> 11:52.200 Tax guys or gals are not that great at project managing. 11:52.200 --> 11:54.320 It's just fill the funnel, get it done. 11:54.320 --> 11:56.000 And thank gosh we have a deadline, 11:56.000 --> 11:57.120 otherwise it would take us forever. 11:57.120 --> 12:00.440 So we started down the path of 12:02.040 --> 12:06.080 envisioning going from a production business model, 12:06.080 --> 12:10.960 inputs, hours, to an outcomes value. 12:10.960 --> 12:15.040 Interestingly, I had dinner with the number two, 12:15.040 --> 12:17.720 second in command at one of the big four last night. 12:17.720 --> 12:20.680 We meet every couple of, every couple of months. 12:20.680 --> 12:24.840 And we talked about going from production to outcomes value. 12:24.880 --> 12:29.800 And he said, Alan, the firm that solves for that 12:29.800 --> 12:31.280 will win by a landslide. 12:32.560 --> 12:33.920 And he says, I don't know who's gonna do it, 12:33.920 --> 12:36.120 but somebody will figure that out. 12:36.120 --> 12:40.200 That will be the biggest shift in the profession 12:40.200 --> 12:42.040 in the last three decades. 12:42.040 --> 12:43.640 Because people don't wanna, 12:43.640 --> 12:45.280 they don't wanna get that email, Randy. 12:45.280 --> 12:46.880 Well, you've gotta have 55 chargeable hours 12:46.880 --> 12:48.560 because it's January 15th. 12:48.560 --> 12:50.440 So they're not developing. 12:50.440 --> 12:51.920 The only thing that they've got going for them 12:51.920 --> 12:53.200 is they've gotta get hours. 12:53.880 --> 12:55.520 If we're a people-centric business, 12:55.520 --> 12:58.120 I hear this all the time, we're people-centric. 12:58.120 --> 12:59.240 Well, what does that mean? 12:59.240 --> 13:00.360 No, you're not. 13:00.360 --> 13:01.200 No, you're not. 13:01.200 --> 13:03.440 You're not people-centric because you have dog insurance 13:03.440 --> 13:08.440 or pet insurance or you have a company store 13:08.840 --> 13:11.160 that you give credits for, coupons. 13:11.160 --> 13:12.480 That's not people-centric. 13:12.480 --> 13:13.800 Being people-centric, Randy, 13:13.800 --> 13:17.720 is building bespoke development plans 13:17.720 --> 13:20.560 and not having, like I did, 13:20.600 --> 13:24.920 not having somebody work 610 40s. 13:24.920 --> 13:28.200 You stop learning after the 100s maybe, 13:28.200 --> 13:30.280 but the reason you do 600 is because, well, 13:30.280 --> 13:31.520 you've gotta book the revenue. 13:31.520 --> 13:33.120 I've gotta have the hours. 13:33.120 --> 13:36.000 Those are career non-value-added hours. 13:36.000 --> 13:38.560 And if I'm people-centric as an organization, 13:38.560 --> 13:40.080 I should be focusing on you, Randy, 13:40.080 --> 13:42.040 to make sure you're developing the right way, 13:42.040 --> 13:44.520 not just punching hours. 13:44.520 --> 13:46.640 Well, it's too late for me, but somebody else. 13:46.640 --> 13:47.480 Right, yeah. 13:47.480 --> 13:50.000 Fair enough, fair enough, okay. 13:50.000 --> 13:52.440 So I like that, the whole, I mean, 13:52.440 --> 13:54.160 I had a conversation yesterday, 13:54.160 --> 13:57.600 we recorded a podcast with someone, Geraldine Carter. 13:57.600 --> 14:00.280 Don't know if you know Geraldine at all or not. 14:00.280 --> 14:01.320 I think I do. 14:01.320 --> 14:03.280 Geraldine deals with small firms. 14:03.280 --> 14:08.120 She just wrote a book about down to 40 hours. 14:08.120 --> 14:12.040 And it's a value-based billing and it's a niche practice 14:12.040 --> 14:13.720 and she deals with smaller. 14:13.720 --> 14:17.320 But the concepts in the book, I think, 14:17.320 --> 14:20.160 translate to any size firm. 14:20.160 --> 14:23.080 And really, because we were talking about this yesterday, 14:23.080 --> 14:24.600 and I said, so you need to get out there 14:24.600 --> 14:26.520 and you need to go out and start talking about this, 14:26.520 --> 14:30.600 get involved with state societies, the ACPA, whatever. 14:30.600 --> 14:32.120 And she goes, yeah, but my audience. 14:32.120 --> 14:33.640 I go, no, it doesn't matter your audience. 14:33.640 --> 14:34.800 Your audience is small firms right now. 14:34.800 --> 14:35.640 That's who you talk to. 14:35.640 --> 14:37.640 But your concepts don't have to stay there. 14:37.640 --> 14:38.680 They can go elsewhere. 14:38.680 --> 14:42.320 So I'd like her to get out and talk about that more. 14:42.320 --> 14:44.160 But let me ask you this then. 14:44.200 --> 14:47.400 Your buddy just told you the firm that solves this, 14:47.400 --> 14:49.960 that figures it out, is gonna take over. 14:49.960 --> 14:50.840 Do you have ideas? 14:50.840 --> 14:52.000 I mean, how can we do this? 14:52.000 --> 14:53.000 How can we change? 14:53.000 --> 14:53.840 And we see it. 14:53.840 --> 14:55.520 I see it at the smaller firm level, 14:55.520 --> 14:57.560 but they operate differently. 14:58.640 --> 14:59.880 They do, they do. 14:59.880 --> 15:00.720 So I'll answer the question. 15:00.720 --> 15:02.560 I've got a point on the down to 40. 15:02.560 --> 15:07.600 Also, you've got to start in one practice, a pilot, 15:07.600 --> 15:10.040 one part, right? 15:10.040 --> 15:11.400 You've got to have a commitment 15:11.400 --> 15:13.120 that you really want to break the mold. 15:13.120 --> 15:16.160 You want to be the firm that leads the league. 15:16.160 --> 15:19.920 And so every firm wants to climb the league tables, right? 15:19.920 --> 15:20.760 They want to be bigger. 15:20.760 --> 15:22.080 They want to be in the top 10, right? 15:22.080 --> 15:24.000 They want to have a great net promoter score. 15:24.000 --> 15:26.040 They want to have great turnover, 15:26.040 --> 15:28.200 the right amount level of turnover. 15:28.200 --> 15:29.840 Why can't a firm, 15:29.840 --> 15:33.280 there'll be a firm that says there's a fifth 15:33.280 --> 15:36.440 and this is getting rid of the chargeable hours. 15:36.440 --> 15:38.160 At the end of the day, 15:38.160 --> 15:40.240 they're just nervous that they're gonna miss something. 15:40.240 --> 15:41.480 I know. 15:41.480 --> 15:42.320 That's the thing. 15:42.480 --> 15:43.320 That's the thing. 15:43.320 --> 15:46.040 And listen, your comment about going to 40 hours, 15:46.040 --> 15:46.960 and I'm sure the book is great 15:46.960 --> 15:50.640 and I appreciate what Geraldine is talking about. 15:50.640 --> 15:52.040 I'll go back to my comment earlier 15:52.040 --> 15:54.320 that there are plenty of professions 15:54.320 --> 15:56.400 where they're not working 40 hours. 15:56.400 --> 15:59.040 They're working 60 or 70 15:59.040 --> 16:02.760 and they're working in a context that's much more fun, 16:02.760 --> 16:04.200 much more inspiring. 16:04.200 --> 16:08.560 So to me, it's not quantity as much as it is quality, right? 16:08.560 --> 16:12.000 However, you got to clip the peaks 16:12.680 --> 16:14.480 and fill in the valleys of busy season. 16:14.480 --> 16:16.000 And there are plenty of ways you can do that 16:16.000 --> 16:18.520 with offshoring, with automation, et cetera. 16:18.520 --> 16:20.560 It's not extreme. 16:20.560 --> 16:23.720 Again, I think we just need to change the way we work. 16:23.720 --> 16:25.040 And then if we may get to the point 16:25.040 --> 16:28.000 where people are willing to commit even more effort 16:28.000 --> 16:28.920 along the way. 16:28.920 --> 16:29.740 Okay. 16:29.740 --> 16:31.000 And I think, like you said, 16:31.000 --> 16:35.160 it's why are these other industries sexier than accounting? 16:35.160 --> 16:38.160 I think a lot of it's just a perception problem. 16:38.160 --> 16:39.520 I just don't think we've done. 16:39.520 --> 16:41.480 I mean, I think it's reality. 16:42.160 --> 16:43.280 I've never been big four, 16:43.280 --> 16:47.000 but my mind big four just burns and churns through you. 16:47.000 --> 16:48.600 Now I can be completely wrong there, 16:48.600 --> 16:49.880 but that's my perception. 16:49.880 --> 16:51.040 So if I have that perception, 16:51.040 --> 16:54.040 I'm guessing others have that perception as well. 16:54.040 --> 16:57.440 And so somehow it's almost a marketing as well. 16:57.440 --> 16:59.080 Hey, we have to market ourselves different. 16:59.080 --> 17:01.040 We have to show that we're having fun, 17:01.040 --> 17:04.200 that we're really living the fact 17:04.200 --> 17:08.200 that we are helping people have that work-life balance, 17:08.200 --> 17:10.680 that they are people that an auditor, 17:10.680 --> 17:12.680 a tax preparer, a tax advisor, 17:12.680 --> 17:14.320 their title is not who they are. 17:14.320 --> 17:15.400 They are something else. 17:15.400 --> 17:16.560 They have a life. 17:16.560 --> 17:19.560 And I think the perception is we've got, 17:19.560 --> 17:22.800 and I'm old, so this is back in the day, 17:22.800 --> 17:24.500 when someone's sitting at their desk 80 hours 17:24.500 --> 17:26.720 with the glasses with the tape around it 17:26.720 --> 17:28.640 and the pocket protector and all that, 17:28.640 --> 17:31.540 but that's still, I think, permeate some of it. 17:31.540 --> 17:35.700 So I think perception, I mean, reality has to happen, 17:35.700 --> 17:37.720 but I think perception is something we need to work on 17:37.720 --> 17:41.560 and maybe AICPA has to start helping with that. 17:41.560 --> 17:42.560 I don't know. 17:42.560 --> 17:47.120 Well, I know that the AICPA and one of their divisions 17:47.120 --> 17:51.160 is working hard on the branding aspect of that. 17:51.160 --> 17:53.400 I think you're spot on already. 17:53.400 --> 17:58.400 We need to show them that it is a fun career, profession. 17:59.520 --> 18:02.560 Look, the relationships that I have built over the years, 18:02.560 --> 18:04.320 I wouldn't trade for anything. 18:04.320 --> 18:05.160 Oh yeah. 18:05.200 --> 18:08.440 And the acumen that I've been able to develop 18:08.440 --> 18:10.700 over the years has been, the people I've learned from, 18:10.700 --> 18:12.240 it's been fantastic. 18:12.240 --> 18:13.840 And what's really interesting is remember, 18:13.840 --> 18:15.760 I was having dinner with effectively 18:15.760 --> 18:17.360 a competitor last night. 18:17.360 --> 18:19.320 And lo and behold, we're actually helping one another, 18:19.320 --> 18:21.320 so it's a really interesting profession. 18:21.320 --> 18:23.360 It's a collaborative profession in general. 18:23.360 --> 18:26.500 I believe it is strong from that standpoint. 18:26.500 --> 18:29.920 Right, well, the AICPCPA.com put together 18:29.920 --> 18:32.880 the DAS project, which is Dynamic Audit Solution, 18:32.920 --> 18:37.000 and 40 major firms, under the big four, 18:37.000 --> 18:40.560 the major firms group, came together and crowdfunded, 18:41.600 --> 18:44.560 I don't know, $40 million as a co-chair with Chris Schmidt, 18:44.560 --> 18:47.220 the former recently retired CEO of Moss Adams. 18:47.220 --> 18:51.720 We crowdfunded $45 million to team with CPA.com 18:51.720 --> 18:54.920 to build a platform for audit the next generation. 18:54.920 --> 18:57.400 So we are looking to push things forward, 18:57.400 --> 18:59.080 and we are looking to work together. 18:59.080 --> 19:01.440 You're right, messaging is critical. 19:01.960 --> 19:06.720 We need to do a better job of showing the what and the how 19:06.720 --> 19:08.880 of it is a good place to be. 19:08.880 --> 19:12.120 Yep, and that's, so I'm not on the committee, 19:12.120 --> 19:14.480 but I've been helping out a little bit with this. 19:14.480 --> 19:17.720 It's the National Pipeline Advisory Group, 19:17.720 --> 19:21.800 Jennifer Wilson is in that, so I've been promoting that. 19:21.800 --> 19:24.880 I got in front of my university to have the students 19:24.880 --> 19:27.440 take the survey there. 19:27.440 --> 19:30.920 Things like that to find out what is going on too, 19:30.960 --> 19:33.280 why is there a pipeline issue? 19:33.280 --> 19:37.000 I'm actually doing my own, I guess benchmark survey right now 19:37.000 --> 19:39.040 just to find out what's going on in the profession, 19:39.040 --> 19:41.080 what's happening, are people leaving? 19:41.080 --> 19:42.040 We know they are. 19:42.040 --> 19:42.880 Are they not coming in? 19:42.880 --> 19:44.060 We know why. 19:44.060 --> 19:47.400 So trying to set a baseline and then over the next few years 19:47.400 --> 19:49.560 trying to expand on that to get deeper. 19:49.560 --> 19:51.240 We're hoping to have results in July, 19:51.240 --> 19:54.940 so I'm very excited about that coming out as well. 19:54.940 --> 19:56.560 You know, that's great, Randy. 19:56.560 --> 20:00.240 You know, it's interesting as I sit here and listen to you, 20:00.240 --> 20:02.360 I'm familiar with the pipeline, Sue Coffey, 20:02.360 --> 20:05.720 Lexi Kessler and others are leading that. 20:05.720 --> 20:07.760 You know, we're worried about the people 20:07.760 --> 20:08.920 that aren't coming into the profession 20:08.920 --> 20:10.640 and we're worrying about the people that are leaving. 20:10.640 --> 20:13.000 Maybe we should start focusing on people that are staying. 20:13.000 --> 20:14.320 Right, right? 20:14.320 --> 20:18.000 Because look, all the firms are growing leaps and bounds. 20:18.000 --> 20:18.920 Right? Oh yeah, oh yeah. 20:18.920 --> 20:21.160 Even with the limitations because of automation 20:21.160 --> 20:22.600 or because of what have you, 20:22.600 --> 20:25.480 and there are thousands of people around 20:25.480 --> 20:27.480 that we need to do this for. 20:27.480 --> 20:30.080 And you know, it's like if you build it, they will come. 20:30.080 --> 20:31.740 Right, so let's build it now 20:31.740 --> 20:33.680 and then hopefully the students will come. 20:33.680 --> 20:36.260 Yep, and that actually is part of what we're finalizing 20:36.260 --> 20:38.220 all the questions right now, but that is part of it. 20:38.220 --> 20:40.120 Why are you in the profession 20:40.120 --> 20:42.600 is one of the benchmarks we're looking at. 20:42.600 --> 20:44.480 And what is it, and then we're, 20:44.480 --> 20:46.720 sorry, I'm giving away all of our data right now. 20:46.720 --> 20:51.440 But we'll release this in July then after that. 20:51.440 --> 20:54.240 Right, okay, good, right, that's fair. 20:54.840 --> 20:57.720 But back to the break the mold then. 20:57.720 --> 20:59.120 Hours are a big part of it, 20:59.120 --> 21:00.480 the thing that you want to see 21:00.480 --> 21:02.080 and figure out if there's a way to change it. 21:02.080 --> 21:04.600 What are other areas that need to, 21:04.600 --> 21:07.160 and we talked about the perception of the industry 21:07.160 --> 21:08.800 and you're showing we're fun, 21:08.800 --> 21:12.760 but what are other mold areas that we want to see changed? 21:12.760 --> 21:15.600 Well, what about development, right? 21:15.600 --> 21:20.600 CPE development, most of the development is elective. 21:21.680 --> 21:23.840 I mean, there are certain things you need to take auditing 21:24.320 --> 21:26.000 ethics, et cetera, but then the rest are, 21:26.000 --> 21:30.240 we pull the data or the systems to us. 21:30.240 --> 21:31.920 What about if the firms push it? 21:31.920 --> 21:34.880 And what if, again, looking at you, 21:34.880 --> 21:38.200 what if we put a bespoke plan together for you? 21:38.200 --> 21:39.480 Now, a lot of firms say, well, 21:39.480 --> 21:42.080 we can only do that for the hypos, the high potentials. 21:42.080 --> 21:42.920 Well, why? 21:42.920 --> 21:44.200 Well, it's expensive. 21:44.200 --> 21:45.960 Well, yeah, okay, it's expensive, 21:45.960 --> 21:47.320 but think about the benefit you get 21:47.320 --> 21:49.840 if you really develop people in an, 21:49.840 --> 21:53.800 be intentional about the way you develop, right? 21:54.640 --> 21:57.320 Rather than, I use a buffet example, 21:57.320 --> 21:58.880 you go to the buffet in Las Vegas 21:58.880 --> 22:01.080 and you get to pick whatever you want, right? 22:01.080 --> 22:02.520 And you could sit in the fried food section, 22:02.520 --> 22:04.440 you could sit in the pasta section. 22:04.440 --> 22:06.720 Well, maybe you need to sit in some other section 22:06.720 --> 22:11.720 and maybe the firm needs to develop you intentionally. 22:12.280 --> 22:15.440 Think about all the administrative stuff. 22:15.440 --> 22:18.360 Think about all the billing and collection stuff 22:18.360 --> 22:22.080 that people do, the layers and layers of administrative 22:22.080 --> 22:26.560 and as I like to say, the career non-value added tasks. 22:26.560 --> 22:27.760 They didn't come into this profession 22:27.760 --> 22:29.160 to learn how to bill and collect. 22:29.160 --> 22:30.640 They came in to be tax professionals 22:30.640 --> 22:32.680 and advisors and consultants. 22:32.680 --> 22:33.880 Well, let's let them do that. 22:33.880 --> 22:36.120 Why do they need to do all this other stuff? 22:36.120 --> 22:37.840 It's probably because the people before them did it. 22:37.840 --> 22:38.680 Exactly. 22:38.680 --> 22:40.560 Let's reinvent the experience 22:40.560 --> 22:44.640 when you're in public accounting in a CPA firm, totally. 22:44.640 --> 22:47.240 It's about them developing as a practitioner, 22:47.240 --> 22:50.440 not as a biller or a collector or an administrative person. 22:50.480 --> 22:54.080 And so let's move those tasks to the right person. 22:54.080 --> 22:55.800 They're important. 22:55.800 --> 22:56.640 Maybe it's not important 22:56.640 --> 22:58.960 for a tax consulting senior associate. 22:58.960 --> 23:02.280 And so we need to become much more intentional 23:02.280 --> 23:05.800 about how we're developing people rather than have it be, 23:05.800 --> 23:07.200 well, go to the library, 23:07.200 --> 23:09.120 pick your courses because you need 80 hours 23:09.120 --> 23:12.880 and never shall you really think about building your career. 23:12.880 --> 23:14.000 Yeah, I love what you said there 23:14.000 --> 23:16.600 because allowing people to find their passion, 23:16.600 --> 23:19.200 to find the thing they like and be able to concentrate on that 23:19.200 --> 23:21.000 and the things that they don't need to be doing 23:21.000 --> 23:22.200 or they can delegate. 23:22.200 --> 23:24.720 So the conference we're having in July, 23:24.720 --> 23:25.920 everything goes back to July. 23:25.920 --> 23:28.800 That's why we want to announce the results then. 23:28.800 --> 23:31.920 But it's automate, delegate, collaborate. 23:31.920 --> 23:34.960 So there's so many things that somebody loves doing 23:34.960 --> 23:36.200 that I hate doing. 23:36.200 --> 23:37.480 Why would I do it then? 23:37.480 --> 23:38.480 Why would I spend time? 23:38.480 --> 23:40.440 I think that's kind of what you're trying to say, right? 23:40.440 --> 23:41.280 I mean, not trying. 23:41.280 --> 23:44.440 You did say, I'm just trying to make sure I understood it. 23:44.440 --> 23:45.280 It's exactly. 23:45.280 --> 23:48.920 And again, I didn't come into this profession 23:48.920 --> 23:49.920 to do all that stuff. 23:49.920 --> 23:52.320 I came in this profession to be the best early on, 23:52.320 --> 23:55.200 the best tax professional I can be. 23:55.200 --> 24:00.200 And in turn, all this admin took away hours 24:00.240 --> 24:01.880 of my development time. 24:01.880 --> 24:04.760 And so again, I think we need to take 24:04.760 --> 24:08.080 a much more intentional view on this. 24:08.080 --> 24:09.880 Another thing about intentionality, 24:09.880 --> 24:11.520 a former colleague of mine, 24:11.520 --> 24:13.440 her name is Francesca Ranieri. 24:13.440 --> 24:16.520 She's a wonderful L and D specialist. 24:16.520 --> 24:18.720 During COVID, we were talking about 24:18.720 --> 24:20.680 how do we get in front of our people? 24:20.680 --> 24:23.360 How do we deal with virtual work, 24:23.360 --> 24:24.480 which is here to stay. 24:24.480 --> 24:25.320 Oh yeah. 24:25.320 --> 24:26.880 It's just a new way. 24:26.880 --> 24:28.440 And she coined this phrase, 24:28.440 --> 24:31.320 we need to go from proximity to intentionality. 24:32.640 --> 24:34.720 So rather than proximity being, 24:34.720 --> 24:35.680 I've got to see you, 24:35.680 --> 24:37.400 I've got to be in the same room with you, et cetera. 24:37.400 --> 24:39.680 I've got to go to be intentional 24:39.680 --> 24:41.480 about how I connect with you. 24:41.480 --> 24:43.120 That's the goal. 24:43.120 --> 24:45.600 Proximity to intentionality. 24:45.600 --> 24:47.320 It's not about whether we're in the same room. 24:47.320 --> 24:48.920 She needs to trademark that. 24:48.920 --> 24:51.880 Yeah, yeah. 24:51.880 --> 24:54.400 I like that a lot because that's, 24:54.400 --> 24:57.800 when I go out and talk about culture in firms 24:57.800 --> 24:59.400 and why it's important and all that, 24:59.400 --> 25:04.400 and often obviously the remote aspect of the business now 25:04.600 --> 25:06.600 and just the world in general comes up a lot. 25:06.600 --> 25:10.320 And somebody that's my age or older always brings up, 25:10.320 --> 25:11.680 well, how am I going to train somebody 25:11.680 --> 25:14.040 if they're not sitting next to me in the office? 25:14.520 --> 25:16.640 And well, yeah, you have to be intentional about it. 25:16.640 --> 25:17.720 You can still do it. 25:17.720 --> 25:18.880 And how are they going to learn 25:18.880 --> 25:21.360 how to have face-to-face meetings with their clients? 25:21.360 --> 25:22.640 Well, honestly, the new clients 25:22.640 --> 25:24.560 are not going to be the face-to-face anyways. 25:24.560 --> 25:26.200 This is not going away. 25:26.200 --> 25:28.560 The new generation of business owners 25:28.560 --> 25:30.480 are not going to want you coming in their office, 25:30.480 --> 25:31.600 meeting with them all the time. 25:31.600 --> 25:33.840 And we just need to get past that. 25:33.840 --> 25:35.920 Let me give you two things on that. 25:35.920 --> 25:38.600 So going back to our comment about small firms 25:38.600 --> 25:40.480 being able to really break the mold. 25:40.480 --> 25:42.960 I've heard about a firm somewhere, 25:42.960 --> 25:45.200 I think in the Southeastern part of the country, 25:45.200 --> 25:47.360 that is a virtual firm, 25:47.360 --> 25:49.440 and they charge extra 25:49.440 --> 25:51.320 if the client wants them to come to the office. 25:51.320 --> 25:52.520 Okay, yeah. 25:52.520 --> 25:53.920 Think about that. 25:53.920 --> 25:56.760 Because their fees are based on being a virtual firm. 25:56.760 --> 25:58.560 And if you want us to come in, we'll come, 25:58.560 --> 25:59.800 but that's not our model, 25:59.800 --> 26:02.880 so you got to pay an extra 25 bucks or whatever it is. 26:02.880 --> 26:07.880 And so that's a huge shift of being intentional. 26:08.640 --> 26:10.480 So another example, 26:10.480 --> 26:13.680 so you know that I, 26:13.680 --> 26:15.600 if you look at my LinkedIn profile, 26:15.600 --> 26:19.520 I've got a newsletter, I release posts every day, 26:19.520 --> 26:21.920 and I got a weekly newsletter. 26:21.920 --> 26:24.720 I hired a young man to help me with that. 26:24.720 --> 26:27.120 I have never met him in person. 26:27.120 --> 26:29.840 He and his wife traveled the country 26:29.840 --> 26:32.600 in a mobile home type vehicle. 26:32.600 --> 26:34.280 Well, that's right, I met him online. 26:34.280 --> 26:35.960 You met Chad. 26:35.960 --> 26:39.880 He knew nothing about public accounting and the profession. 26:39.880 --> 26:41.680 So not only did I teach him, 26:41.680 --> 26:44.880 he's my author, we write together, 26:44.880 --> 26:45.880 and I've never met him. 26:45.880 --> 26:48.040 So it's, but he's intentional. 26:48.040 --> 26:49.760 We meet every Tuesday, every Thursday. 26:49.760 --> 26:53.440 He's intentional about it, and it works fabulously. 26:53.440 --> 26:56.280 So it can be done, and he's much younger than me. 26:56.280 --> 26:58.760 So it's not like he's been doing this forever, 26:58.760 --> 27:01.040 and you know, well, you know, he's better prepared. 27:01.040 --> 27:02.480 He wasn't prepared at all. 27:02.480 --> 27:06.240 And so he's like a senior associate to me being a partner. 27:06.240 --> 27:07.520 So it can be done. 27:07.520 --> 27:09.800 Yeah, oh, it's the same story. 27:10.720 --> 27:12.960 My assistant lives in Guadalajara, Mexico. 27:14.080 --> 27:16.840 You know, we get together twice a week. 27:16.840 --> 27:18.720 In fact, right when you and I finish, 27:18.720 --> 27:20.000 she and I are getting on a call. 27:20.000 --> 27:22.360 We're going over my emails, going over my schedule, 27:22.360 --> 27:23.920 making sure I'm not missing anything, 27:23.920 --> 27:25.840 if there's follow-up I need to do. 27:25.840 --> 27:27.920 And yeah, we actually have met. 27:27.920 --> 27:30.680 She's come into town twice for, 27:30.680 --> 27:34.080 we as a company do more remote business, 27:34.080 --> 27:36.960 but twice a year, we get together in a central location 27:37.000 --> 27:40.520 and bring all the employees into one spot and get together. 27:40.520 --> 27:42.520 So she came in for that last year 27:42.520 --> 27:44.120 and will again this year. 27:44.120 --> 27:45.040 But yeah, same thing. 27:45.040 --> 27:46.520 You can do it, it's possible. 27:46.520 --> 27:51.400 And you and I are not, you know, 25 years old or anything. 27:51.400 --> 27:53.640 No, we're not, no we're not. 27:53.640 --> 27:55.240 I wanna keep going on in this forever, 27:55.240 --> 27:57.280 but we're gonna have to wrap up soon. 27:57.280 --> 28:00.240 So let me give you an opportunity to just kind of, 28:00.240 --> 28:05.080 one, I want you to explain just a wrap up on, you know, 28:05.120 --> 28:06.760 why we need to change how, you know, 28:06.760 --> 28:10.040 and just, you know, give your ideals on this. 28:10.040 --> 28:13.680 And then before we wrap, I wanna get more information 28:13.680 --> 28:14.560 on what you're doing 28:14.560 --> 28:16.760 and how people can get ahold of you as well. 28:16.760 --> 28:17.960 Great, well, thank you. 28:17.960 --> 28:21.640 Look, every organization's goal should be amongst others 28:21.640 --> 28:23.880 to be relevant and sustainable. 28:23.880 --> 28:25.840 And you need to be relevant to clients, 28:25.840 --> 28:27.440 for your people, et cetera. 28:27.440 --> 28:32.440 And old archaic ways of doing things need to be tweaked. 28:32.840 --> 28:34.480 We can do it incrementally, 28:34.480 --> 28:38.840 but we'll never really do it if we do it from now forward. 28:38.840 --> 28:41.560 Meaning, you read a book from page one to the last page. 28:41.560 --> 28:44.120 You run a company or you transform a company, 28:44.120 --> 28:46.000 the future and back. 28:46.000 --> 28:48.800 And so you need to set that future in order to get there. 28:48.800 --> 28:52.280 Otherwise, we'll make incremental small little tweaks. 28:52.280 --> 28:54.120 And frankly, that's less effective 28:54.120 --> 28:55.440 than just leaving it alone. 28:55.440 --> 28:57.480 Because you're gonna mess things up 28:57.480 --> 28:59.360 if you don't go far enough. 28:59.360 --> 29:04.240 And so I'm a big believer that just because 29:04.240 --> 29:06.720 it got us here won't get us there. 29:06.720 --> 29:09.960 I think we're at a crucial time in this profession's 29:09.960 --> 29:11.800 storied history. 29:11.800 --> 29:14.320 And if we wanna be sustainable long to the future, 29:14.320 --> 29:18.160 we wanna continue having the franchise, if you will, 29:18.160 --> 29:23.120 of the CPA franchise and the trust and the interest, 29:23.120 --> 29:27.000 we need to come together and reinvent 29:27.000 --> 29:29.760 how we run our business. 29:29.760 --> 29:32.440 Because we're being told our customers, 29:32.440 --> 29:35.360 meaning our people, they're telling us 29:35.360 --> 29:37.680 if our customers that pay us 29:37.680 --> 29:39.600 were telling us something so bold 29:39.600 --> 29:41.960 by not coming to us, we would change. 29:41.960 --> 29:44.840 So why aren't we changing if our people 29:44.840 --> 29:47.640 are telling us by using their feet? 29:47.640 --> 29:52.280 That's just, it's a conundrum that I can't figure out. 29:52.280 --> 29:54.520 But you're going to, I have faith in you. 29:54.520 --> 29:57.720 I am advising everybody that I'm talking with. 29:57.720 --> 30:00.200 And Randy, so I'll move to that. 30:00.200 --> 30:02.600 When I left Baker-Tilley, I had a lot to say. 30:02.600 --> 30:05.720 I wanna use what I've learned, 30:05.720 --> 30:09.640 the experiences I've had, the things I've gotten wrong 30:09.640 --> 30:12.520 to help others get there faster, 30:12.520 --> 30:15.280 jump higher, run faster, et cetera. 30:15.280 --> 30:18.600 And so I'm not just focusing on large organizations 30:18.600 --> 30:20.080 like Baker-Tilley was. 30:20.080 --> 30:21.800 I've got a couple of startups I'm helping. 30:21.800 --> 30:25.320 I've got a $15 million professional services organization 30:25.320 --> 30:28.280 that I'm helping with strategy and doing things differently. 30:28.280 --> 30:29.840 And I pushed them on, 30:29.840 --> 30:32.840 let's think about things in a different way. 30:32.840 --> 30:34.400 I'm helping a $5 million firm 30:34.400 --> 30:36.480 because the owners are friends of mine. 30:36.480 --> 30:40.000 The goal is for me to impart my experiences 30:40.000 --> 30:42.680 and my passion for doing things differently 30:42.680 --> 30:45.880 and reframing the conversation, changing the narrative, 30:45.880 --> 30:49.800 whatever you wanna call it, so they can achieve more 30:49.800 --> 30:52.240 like we were able to at Baker-Tilley. 30:52.240 --> 30:54.800 You know, when I became the CEO of Baker-Tilley, Randy, 30:54.800 --> 30:59.080 it was pretty much a first-generation firm. 30:59.080 --> 31:04.080 You know, Tim had taken it from 30 million to 475 million, 31:04.520 --> 31:05.360 but in the modern era, 31:05.360 --> 31:07.520 that was really a first-generation firm. 31:07.520 --> 31:11.080 And we reinvented it to be much more 31:11.080 --> 31:13.600 than a second-generation firm, modernized it. 31:13.600 --> 31:15.720 So it can be done. 31:15.720 --> 31:18.320 And now I'm suggesting that more people do that 31:18.320 --> 31:21.840 and get more bold or bolder. 31:21.840 --> 31:25.200 And the word mark, break the mold, embodies all of that. 31:25.200 --> 31:27.920 Let's break the mold because it is a mold. 31:27.920 --> 31:30.480 And you know, molds are solid there. 31:30.480 --> 31:31.640 You can't move, you gotta break it. 31:31.640 --> 31:33.480 You can't just shave a little bit off. 31:33.480 --> 31:36.240 You gotta break the mold and build a new mold. 31:36.240 --> 31:37.680 Yep, I think that's awesome. 31:37.680 --> 31:39.880 And believe me, this conversation, 31:39.880 --> 31:42.480 I don't think it could get me more excited that, 31:42.480 --> 31:44.560 again, as I said at the beginning, 31:44.560 --> 31:47.240 somebody coming from a large with Baker-Tilley, 31:47.240 --> 31:49.440 top 10, top 20, whatever it is, firm, 31:50.360 --> 31:52.800 is thinking that because in my mind, 31:52.800 --> 31:55.120 the big firms are not thinking break the mold. 31:55.120 --> 31:57.200 They're thinking, let's keep going the way we're going 31:57.200 --> 31:58.400 because we're making lots of money 31:58.400 --> 31:59.840 and we'll do it that way. 31:59.840 --> 32:01.240 So that's awesome. 32:01.240 --> 32:04.280 Before I ask for contact information, anything, 32:04.280 --> 32:06.000 and believe me, I got a thousand more questions 32:06.000 --> 32:06.840 I wanna go over. 32:06.840 --> 32:08.280 So you and I are gonna have to do this again. 32:08.280 --> 32:09.400 I mean, even just, 32:09.400 --> 32:11.760 I wanted to start talking about firm structure. 32:11.760 --> 32:13.680 I mean, is the partnership still something? 32:13.680 --> 32:15.200 And I'm sure you have ideas on that. 32:15.200 --> 32:17.400 Maybe we'll schedule another one 32:17.400 --> 32:19.920 down the road for that as well. 32:19.920 --> 32:22.200 But before we wrap up then, 32:22.200 --> 32:24.600 and I alluded to it before, 32:24.600 --> 32:26.480 we are not our job title. 32:26.480 --> 32:28.640 We are our outside of work passion. 32:28.640 --> 32:30.480 So I'm curious, what do you love doing 32:30.480 --> 32:33.320 when you're not out to advising CEOs? 32:33.320 --> 32:35.240 Yeah, well, I love being on the water. 32:35.240 --> 32:38.360 My wife and I and family are big boaters. 32:38.360 --> 32:40.520 So we're on the water quite a bit. 32:40.520 --> 32:43.040 I love giving back to the community. 32:43.040 --> 32:44.960 So I do a lot of volunteering. 32:45.720 --> 32:48.480 I'm a treasurer on a couple of different places. 32:48.480 --> 32:49.560 I am an accountant. 32:49.560 --> 32:50.400 I like that. 32:50.400 --> 32:52.320 I like helping these not-for-profits 32:52.320 --> 32:53.760 really become a business 32:53.760 --> 32:55.120 because they still are a business. 32:55.120 --> 32:57.440 And it's amazing how many not-for-profits 32:57.440 --> 32:58.880 don't realize that they are. 32:58.880 --> 32:59.840 Not-for-profit doesn't mean 32:59.840 --> 33:01.480 you don't wanna make a profit. 33:01.480 --> 33:04.360 You're just not taxable. 33:04.360 --> 33:06.480 And so love traveling the world. 33:06.480 --> 33:09.200 I was very fortunate in my early years with Baker Tilly 33:09.200 --> 33:11.560 to get to a lot of places around the globe. 33:11.560 --> 33:14.040 Love traveling with my bride, Kim. 33:14.080 --> 33:17.560 And I love this weekend specifically 33:17.560 --> 33:20.080 because it's master's weekend, so I love watching golf. 33:20.080 --> 33:21.840 I assume you play as well. 33:21.840 --> 33:24.200 Well, yes, I play golf. 33:24.200 --> 33:27.480 I don't know if I'm a golfer, but I play it. 33:27.480 --> 33:31.920 And I remember the last time I was at the master's, 33:31.920 --> 33:33.760 I was able to take my father 33:33.760 --> 33:36.200 who it was a year or two before he passed 33:36.200 --> 33:37.440 and it was the first time he had ever been there. 33:37.440 --> 33:39.560 So it was a, this weekend's a really special weekend 33:39.560 --> 33:42.000 for me remembering him. 33:42.000 --> 33:45.480 So on the water and on really nice green grass. 33:45.480 --> 33:46.320 How's that? 33:46.320 --> 33:49.080 That sounds like a good place to be. 33:49.080 --> 33:50.480 So, all right. 33:50.480 --> 33:51.760 And then if people wanna find out, 33:51.760 --> 33:53.680 we know LinkedIn, you're on there. 33:53.680 --> 33:55.520 You're posting every day. 33:55.520 --> 33:58.920 But if you wanna find out more or get ahold of you at all, 33:58.920 --> 34:00.040 what's the best place for them to look? 34:00.040 --> 34:03.480 Yeah, my email is alan, A-L-A-N 34:03.480 --> 34:07.080 at alan D as in davidwittman.com. 34:07.080 --> 34:10.080 That's my website is alan D as in davidwittman.com. 34:12.080 --> 34:14.080 All right, and we'll put that in the show notes as well. 34:14.080 --> 34:16.040 Yeah, so Alan, this was awesome. 34:16.040 --> 34:18.480 I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge 34:18.480 --> 34:20.800 and your passion surrounding this profession. 34:20.800 --> 34:24.120 And honestly, I'd really love to do it again sometime. 34:24.120 --> 34:25.200 So hope we can get this together. 34:25.200 --> 34:26.040 I would too. 34:26.040 --> 34:28.160 I appreciate what you do for us in the profession. 34:28.160 --> 34:30.160 And this was a lot of fun, which makes it even better. 34:30.160 --> 34:31.520 It was a joy to be with you. 34:31.520 --> 34:34.520 So good luck with your survey and the event in July. 34:34.520 --> 34:37.160 And I hope we'll talk again. 34:37.160 --> 34:41.920 Thank you for joining us today on the Unique CPA. 34:41.960 --> 34:44.520 You can find the show notes for today's episode 34:44.520 --> 34:49.320 and learn more about TriMerit at theuniquecpa.com. 34:49.320 --> 34:51.920 Remember to subscribe and leave a five-star rating 34:51.920 --> 34:54.120 on your favorite podcasting app. 34:54.120 --> 34:56.640 And join us next time for more expertise 34:56.640 --> 35:00.520 and insights on the Unique CPA. 35:02.640 --> 35:05.480 ProfessionalProductions.net.