Welcome to Wild Turkey Science, a podcast made possible by Turkeys for Tomorrow.
I'm Dr. Marcus Lashley, Professor of Wildlife Ecology at the University of Florida.
And I'm Dr. Will Goolsby, Professor of Wildlife Ecology and Management at Auburn University.
We're both lifelong hunters and devoted scientists who are passionate about hunting, managing,
and researching wild turkeys.
In this podcast, we'll explore turkey research, speak to the experts in the field, and address
the difficult questions related to wild turkey ecology and management.
Our goal is to serve as your connection to wild turkey science.
Because every time we start the show, we're literally laughing.
And I know that you guys had a lot of funny interactions through the process of filming
these courses, so we thought it would be fun to have you on the show.
So in case you both don't know, we're live now.
For those out there listening, we're going to do this one a little differently.
We asked Will to step away because we kind of got some incriminating things about him.
I'm just kidding.
But we do have some funny things that happened, even with Will, that you guys can share.
So we have Zach Steele, Dr. Zach Steele, back with us.
I think it's good for people to know that you haven't just been emailing folks, pestering
them, that you've also been developing some really important stuff that people are really
valuing.
And then Dorothy, you go by Dot, is here with us.
She has been behind the scenes and behind a lot of the social media stuff that you guys
see if you're following us.
A lot of the video footage and images and also one of your big accomplishments has been
the editing and curating of our course that we've already launched.
So thank you guys for coming to do this.
And we're sad that Will wasn't here, but we're also kind of happy because I hear you've got
some good stuff on him.
We might have some dirt.
We might.
Yeah, well, so I would like to hear from your perspective, you know, what is this course
that we have?
I know we we have given our perspective on what that course is and what it entails and
how valuable it is, but I'd like to hear it from your perspective, since you guys literally
did the filming and editing and curation of the course.
You know, what what do you think in terms of the resource that you've created?
I guess describe that.
You want to go first out or you want me to?
I mean, I don't mind going first.
Well, before we started filming it, I knew less than nothing about turkeys and habitat
management.
Even when I got this job, I didn't know anything about turkeys.
And I feel like I've learned a lot, especially filming the course, I actually learned a ton
about habitat management and about turkeys.
And I think it's a really great resource for land managers.
There's just such a variety of different content and different speakers in the course.
While I was editing, I felt like every video I'd learn something new every few minutes.
And especially and I really learned something new because I had to rewatch things the same
video like 50 times to like cut little things.
I really learned a lot.
So the final cut of the course, how long is it like in terms of like just continuous footage?
It's probably like 10 hours at least for the first one.
Yeah, we cut out a chunk.
So you can just imagine how many hours there was.
So 10 hours times 50 at least, and probably another another 50 on that, I would bet certainly
across many people as well.
Lots of people were having to rewatch things and go through it and real challenge.
But that's the thing as well.
Because even when I watch pieces of it now, I feel like I still learn new things despite
having watched it.
Like however many hundred times also like learn a new thing like, oh, with like burning
and the different plant coverage and the canopies coverage for the poults and what kind of plants
you should plant and predator management or all that kind of stuff.
There's just like so much.
Yeah, it's I think it's really good, valuable resource for land managers.
And there's not really anything else like it out there, which is pretty cool that we
got to pioneer this.
Yeah.
Very cool.
Zach, do you want to add anything?
Yeah.
Sure.
So I remember when I first started this position back in like August of twenty, twenty four.
And Marcus, you describing like what your vision was for this course.
I remember it was kind of hard in my head to like, like actually think, oh, wow, we're
actually going to going to make this happen.
It just seems so expansive and like such an undertaking that it was it was really intimidating.
And then it obviously helped a lot when we brought that on to the team, because now all
of a sudden we've got an expert who's done a lot of this kind of stuff before.
So it's like, OK, we've got our person now who can really help us to make this make this
a reality.
And then I was really involved with a lot of the coordinating side of things because
I love to annoy people by email.
That's kind of my passion.
So I was reaching out to all the different folks who we were going to get to film with.
But then another big component of this course was reaching out to landowners and then also
people working at state agencies to kind of talk with them and have these hour long discussions
where we get their input about what they wanted out of the course, because I think a mistake
that a lot of people make sometimes is they develop a course based on what they think
is best for the course without actually speaking to the people who would be taking that course
and getting an understanding of what they're expecting out of the course.
So we made a lot of significant changes to how we plan things out.
And then on the back end, how we edited things based on those conversations that we had with,
I think, eight to 10 landowners and then folks who are working for state agencies.
So that was a big component of how I was involved.
And I definitely want to give those eight to 10 individuals a shout out for making the
time to have those conversations with us, because that was hugely beneficial into kind
of how we shaped and formed the course.
Yeah.
So, and you said when, so basically before we started recording anything during the planning
process, you had these, I guess, conversations with people and those were private landowners
or managers and also state agency practitioners.
And, you know, the whole point was to see what do they want the course to contain, which
topics are important, which topics are something that aren't very important to them.
And I can remember, you know, we, our initial vision, the course was essentially twice as
long as what got cut.
And it was because of that feedback, like basically those people that we wanted, you
know, we wanted this to be a resource that would help people in any situation that they
might be in as a manager.
So whether that be a private landowner that, you know, has been managing their property
for turkeys, but needs, you know, some advanced direction and how to do that better or state
agency, you know, that they're managing WMAs or working with private landowners.
Did you have any other groups represented in that or?
No, that pretty much sums it up.
Okay.
So the initial course, the one that's live now was really based on that feedback.
We kind of whittled it down to this 10, 11-hour course that has field management, food plots,
forest management, forest stand improvement, prescribed burning, predator management tactics.
We also had, one of the things I'm most excited about and still am and have learned even myself
from was having our expert managers that go and work with landowners all over the place.
So we had those case studies.
Yeah.
And that's, if I can jump in real quick, Marcus, that was one of the big things that we got
from those conversations was how much people wanted direct examples that they could really
take from.
And that's why we really incorporated those three case studies and made such an emphasis
out of that because that's what they talked about a lot in their previous experience going
through courses online was struggling to understand directly how to apply some of what they've
learned.
And they're like, if we have specific examples that show, okay, this is what the land looked
like before.
This is what the land looked like after by doing these steps.
That's where we're going to get the most out of a course.
Right.
So and that's what the case studies and we did, we ended up doing three, which I guess
originally I was going to do one, but we decided to get Craig Harper, who has worked with landowners
all over the nation.
He's known for that.
We got Dwayne Elmore also very experienced and especially in the Midwest.
Then we got Will Goolsbee.
And since he's not here, I'll say something kind about him, but I would never do this
if he was on here with us.
You know, like he works with landowners all the time, is very knowledgeable about that,
especially in the southeastern U.S., you know, and he and I sometimes even do that
together.
So I knew those guys have tons of experience in different contexts, making management plans
for private landowners, and they would have some really good examples to kind of lay out
all of the things that we're talking about in the course and then put them into a context
where they show how they applied all those things and then how the landscape changed
over time.
But ultimately, what did that mean for turkeys?
How did it change the amount of turkeys and the hunting experience and huntability of
the property and that sort of thing?
And I just I found that so valuable, even for me, you know, like I do this for a living
and have been for a long time and go work with private landowners constantly helping
them do this.
And I still gained a lot from it.
So I think, you know, that was something I was really excited about when we were about
to launch, you know, because I had to go through it in kind of with a fine tooth comb as well.
And, you know, I just learned a lot from it.
I was like, man, this this is pretty powerful stuff.
So I'm glad you guys were in the, you know, in the wheelhouse making it crank, so to speak,
and still are.
Yeah.
So we'll link the course if you haven't had a chance to take it.
We'll link it for you.
But we know a lot of people have taken it.
And the feedback.
I mean, Zach, you're you're you're the one tracking all this.
I mean, the feedback so far has been pretty stellar, I would say.
Yeah.
People people seem to be really benefiting from the course and really appreciative that
this is available because, you know, before this, like it was kind of hard to define resources
if you were looking for some additional support in terms of learning more about how you can
manage your land for wild turkeys.
Yeah, there's just some some stupid podcast.
But other than yeah, people are tired to listen to you and will you will all the time.
So they're like, we need something else.
So we had to get these other experts in here to give them some extra information.
Yeah.
Well, that was kind of the vision, you know, originally when I started thinking about this
and this came from listener feedback and and, you know, viewer feedback for the game lab.
People were asking for more and more and more and it's like, man, we just like the more
podcasting we do, the more people want more and the more we put, you know, do these informational
videos and things online, the more people want and people are asking for it.
And that's why we did it.
Yeah.
We got like a ton of questions on social media.
I remember like when I first started, like between Facebook and Instagram and YouTube,
like we just couldn't keep up with everything and we needed like something that was like
a centralized form of information.
Yeah.
Well, and I also, you know, from my viewpoint, I commonly work on habitat management and
all these different sectors, but I also know that we have a bunch of experts out there
that are the best there is.
And that, you know, I have a good relationship with those people and, you know, the habitat,
the people that specialize on habitat, there's a relatively small community in academia,
especially when you narrow it down to game species and even more so when you narrow it
down to turkeys.
And, you know, that was really what I thought.
This shouldn't just be me or even a small group of folks from UF.
We need to go and try to get the who's who, so to speak, of the game habitat management
world and, you know, that's what ended up happening.
Everybody we asked to do it dissipated.
So, you know, it's pretty cool.
Yeah.
And just, I guess, to add to that, to the part that gets complicated is all these experts,
you know, have a lot of other undertakings and involved in a lot of different stuff.
So trying to lasso them up to sit down just to record for two or three hours is a lot
more difficult than than you might think.
So kind of planning this out, especially since we're traveling to different locations across
the country was a little complicated.
Yeah.
Well, I was going to ask you about that.
I kind of wanted to go there because a lot of people say the product at the end, but
there also has been interest in how, I guess, the making.
So this is about the making of the course.
So you guys, particularly the two of you, and I did it once or twice, and then maybe
some other people traveled once or twice even, but you two were doing the majority of traveling
and you were actually going to the speaker.
They're like, you went to Auburn to talk to Will, right?
Or film him.
We didn't want to, but we did.
We did everything we could to try to get him to come somewhere else and he would not do
it.
Even when he did come somewhere else, he still wouldn't film me.
Had to go all the way to Auburn.
We were all in the same place.
Before that, we could have done it then.
Yeah.
We did.
We had the best meals of our lives when we went to Auburn.
I was going to say the same thing.
I was like, we did have very nice food in Auburn.
So it worked out.
That's a good recommendation.
Okay.
So where all did you go?
We went to Auburn.
We went to Mississippi State.
We went to Tennessee.
Me and you did, Marcus.
We went to Oklahoma State.
We went to Quincy, Florida.
We went to, oh gosh, how do you say Duane's?
I don't know.
He said it for us.
And I was like, oh man, I'm not going to remember that.
It's like Jockin, Jockin, Jockin, Georgia, something like that.
If you're from Jockin, Georgia, leave us a comment.
Oh man.
Well, Duane's going to leave a comment and be like, I told you, Zach, how to say it and
you forgot, you big dummy.
Actually, we went to Tennessee twice because we went the one time I went with him.
So we were actually in Tennessee twice.
You mean the convention and then we went back to Craig.
Yeah.
We filmed there twice.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I want both of you to answer this.
Since you brought up food, where did you have the best meal?
And I want each of you to answer that because I know you didn't both go to every location.
I'm actually curious to hear what Zach has to say.
Oh, see, you shouldn't, you shouldn't say that because you actually missed out on the
best meal.
We went to Craig's, Craig made us like, I think so too, he makes like a 10 course meal.
Like there was so many parts where I was like, well, that's gotta be the end of it.
And then he'd bring out even more delicious stuff and like, oh man, like I'm the kind
of person who I can eat for days.
So like he just kept bringing more stuff and I was like, no, I just keep this stuff coming.
This is incredible.
Like we had, we had tuna, we had deer, we had turkey.
But it wasn't just deer, it was coos deer.
Yeah.
It was like very like rare once in a lifetime kind of deer, you're like, this is awesome.
These giant tuna steaks, we had chocolate cake.
Oh my God.
I still think about that meal every once in a while.
Did he have, he had turkey strips that he grilled in that too, didn't he?
Yeah.
Oh man, they were.
So yeah, there were so many different things.
That was really good.
I'm very sad.
I missed that.
On like my American food journey, I feel like that would have been.
Oh, that was homemade too.
And when Mr. Issa starts making stuff, I mean, whatever it is, that's the best version you've
ever had of it.
Very sad I missed that.
What is the name of the restaurants in Auburn?
Because I think like, as far, we ate so much takeout, oh my word.
I remember Zach and I even said to each other, we were like, we like just never want to see
takeout again because we're just on the road all the time.
Like takeout and hotel breakfast buffet food.
Yeah.
What was the name of that place in Auburn?
Because I actually think that was the Nass' takeout.
Gosh, I wish I could remember.
It's in my notes somewhere because yeah, I remember Will gave us the two recommendations.
It's like this little boutique restaurant.
You guys need to remember because they promised us a kickback if we put people on it.
I'm just kidding.
Yeah.
So that food was really good.
What did you eat?
Like what kind of food was it?
It was just like a toasted sandwich and I had tomato soup with mine.
It was very basic, but it was delicious.
It was like a bacon jam toasted cheese thing.
Was it called Acre?
Was Acre the name?
I think it was Acre.
Acre is a well-known establishment in Auburn that sounds like it.
You know, fun fact, I was visiting with a landowner in Alabama, not that county, other
side of the state, but he had smoked turkey for me, just for supper when I came to visit.
And he had some barbecue sauce from Acre or whatever the full name is.
And it was like, man, that was so good.
The turkey plus the sauce from there, it was very good stuff.
It really was delicious.
And I'm glad we were in such a rush that day.
I'm so glad we waited for the food because we needed to get on the road because we were
driving back to Florida and we called the order in and it was worth the wait.
It was virtually good.
Yeah.
Their fried okras.
Yes.
That was the first time I ever had okra and it was nuts.
Oh, was it like the barbecue okra?
No, it was just like normal fried okra, but it was, oh, it was heavy.
Yeah.
I love okra of all kinds.
Yeah.
Oof.
Good stuff.
Yeah.
Well, what about, uh, in terms of your interactions with everybody, like, did you have any funny
interactions when you were filming the Habitat stuff?
So many.
All the bloopers I edited out were just, I would, every now and then I would just laugh
and be like, oh, I forgot.
I forgot that this was actually, especially you two, when we were filming here at UF,
like listening to your bloopers.
It was you and Zach together because you just like play off each other's energy.
And then the one starts laughing and the other one starts laughing and then it just takes
us like 15 minutes to get started.
To get five seconds of good footage.
That's funny.
Wait, maybe we can do a blooper reel from the game lab.
I don't know if we can air the bloopers from that day.
I don't know if we can air that.
It'll just end up being a whole turkey gobble.
Yeah, it's pretty much.
What I guess when you were filming with people, was there, were there any other like funny
interactions where like people just kept having bloopers or like you had equipment malfunctions
or, you know, what kinds of things were happening like that?
There was one.
I mean, you were there for Marcus, like when we were filming with Craig and I think it
was like we were like three hours in at this point.
So like, I totally understand, but like he was starting to lose his voice and you could
tell it was like making him more angry, like he was getting mad at himself that he was
just listening to his voice.
So he kept trying to like drink more water and like miraculously get his voice back,
but like it wasn't happening.
So I think we just like took a break for an hour and like had lunch and then got back
into it afterwards and it was fine.
But you could tell on his face, he was like, man, I'm so annoyed with this right now.
Yes.
Yeah, it was pretty intense.
So I think quite a few people for this one, well, quite a few people contributed two modules.
So there's at least two hours roughly for each person.
Some of those, if you've taken the course, you didn't see the person twice because they
also did a module that they're contributing to the other course that's in development
currently.
Right.
So but yeah, I remember with Craig, you know, anybody that's gone through this has seen
both of those, but he started getting that dry throat, which I guess maybe it was because
there's, you know, the humidity was low enough to burn.
And we know that because Zach and I ended up doing a bunch of prescribed burning while
we were up there.
So that was pretty cool.
Yeah, that was you also played a good joke on me that day, too.
You tricked me.
We were I was trying to get all this cool footage of Marcus burning stuff.
And like I'm locked in on getting this like really high quality footage.
And Marcus is like, man, the fire is moving so slow right now that if you zoom in right
there, Zach, you can see this caterpillar that's outpacing the fire.
And I'm like zooming in desperately trying to find this.
It's like, where's the caterpillar?
I was like, I want to get this caterpillar running away from the fire.
And Marcus is like, there's no, there's no caterpillar, Zach.
Like I'm just messing with you.
That's so funny.
That was hilarious.
I hope you still have that footage somewhere.
Oh, we've got it.
Oh, if you had told me to, I would have still been looking for that caterpillar.
I was sure it was there.
I was filming him when I told him that and then he's like, you know, trying to or no,
you were filming.
Yeah, I was filming it.
You were filming.
And I said that to him and he's like, looking around for this caterpillar.
And then finally, I'm like, there's not a caterpillar.
But I was trying to emphasize how slow the fire was moving.
I mean, you know, we're burning up on hardwoods and we were using firing techniques that,
you know, they're definitely not going to damage the overstory.
And that's the whole point.
Right.
And I was trying to emphasize that, but, you know, Zach jumped on it, hook, line, sinker.
So yeah, we have some, some cool video that we were, we have a couple of how to burn burning
videos for burning and up on hardwoods that we're working on to put on YouTube from that.
And I think people, you know, I get a lot of questions about burning and up on hardwoods.
So kind of, you know, and so does Craig.
So it motivated us while we were burning to cut some good footage and talk through what
we're doing strategically, what kind of conditions we're burning in and, and what the firing
techniques are to make sure that, you know, we're, we're not putting overstory trees in
danger and also accomplishing our objective with, with the burn.
So, but yeah, I forgot about that.
That was hilarious.
So also a really great experience for you to, you know, to get some prescribed burning
experience in that, that system.
So pretty good.
I think we may have used some of the B-roll in the, the, the course when, you know, that
was primarily your role when you were doing the editing.
I think that's another valuable thing that's unique about the course is it's not just filming
folks sitting around a computer doing a presentation.
There's some footage related to that and you see slides that they're using to emphasize
points, but you're also using footage that, you know, you took in the field or that they
took in the field to kind of show people what they're talking about at a given point in
the, in the presentation.
Yeah.
And I think that it's because it's footage that we took or that other people have taken
in the field.
Like it's, it's not necessarily stock footage.
It's like real life practical footage is what also makes the course so valuable.
Yeah.
So you can visualize some of the things that people were talking about.
So really cool.
Yeah.
It might be worth just describing like what the like setup looked like for a lot of these
sessions too.
When we were filming this like that, I don't know if you want to touch about touch on all
the equipment that we needed.
Cause we'd walk into a room sometimes to film with somebody and they'd be like, you guys
brought all this, like they were getting ready for us to like put makeup on and stuff.
They're like, man, this is some like Hollywood stuff right here.
Yeah.
Craig did not want to wear the blush like he's like, this is a hard no, guys.
Yeah.
I think a lot of people weren't expecting that kind of set up.
Almost every single time when they walked in there, they were like, Whoa, when they
like saw the lights and the camera and like the microphone, it's like, I just got a little
bit nervous.
Like, I don't know what's going on here.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
We, we'd have like a lighting setup.
We had our camera, tripods, microphones, and we traveled with all this stuff as well.
So I mean, I was there to help, but poor Zach was actually carrying like.
You want to tell the NWTF one dot?
That's exactly what I thought of.
That's why I laughed.
So we, we go to NWTF and the convention in Nashville, sorry, the convention in Nashville.
And we were filming with some guests there and we get there and we drove, we drove up
there.
So we are busy unloading the car and we asked the bell door person, can they help us like
with the equipment?
And they're like, sure.
It's $25.
If you're with a convention, it's $25 to like, help you take it down to whatever you need.
And me being the cheapskate that I am, I was like, $25, we're not going to, we can just
carry this stuff.
And I'm pretty sure Zach was standing there like, let's just put $25, and I was like,
we can do this.
We can carry it.
So I made us carry all this equipment.
I wish someone took a video of us, but yeah, we carried the C stands, the lights, the soft
boxes, cameras, tripods, a very far distance.
These big Pelican cases and stuff.
This was before we had the Pelican cases.
So since we got the Pelican cases, just carry around these giant, like what almost looks
like like the bar you use when you're bench pressing.
Like I'm carrying those around like this luxury hotel.
And the funny part was like this guy who was super nice was basically like, Hey, like there's
a shortcut if I like take you to the side of the hotel, like that'll get you real quick
to the convention.
We're like, Oh heck yeah.
Like just, just shuttle us over there.
So he drops us off and we go through the side entrance and we're like, wait a second.
I don't think this, this is a shortcut.
And it actually took us to like a lower area where we had to carry everything up, like
all these flights of stairs.
It was not a shortcut.
No.
Yeah.
Oh man.
But yeah, we look so goofy carrying all this equipment and everything was like banging
against the walls and like, Oh my God.
Like by the time we finally got it set up, we were like drenched in sweat.
Yeah.
We were, we were pretty tired.
So there was a, it was quite a setup.
There was a lot of equipment and it went everywhere with us.
I was very happy when we got, and I'm sure Zach was too, when we got our big Pelican
case.
Yes.
It made things a lot easier.
Yeah.
And it was, it was also nice, you know, the convention is a gathering place, I guess,
for a lot of the folks that we wanted to record.
And also the guys that, you know, with NWTF had some rooms set aside and they let us use,
you know, one of their recording studios that they, or I guess just a recording room that,
that we made into a studio with the stuff.
And you know, it was nice kind of having that, that opportunity to record.
So and then I was thinking back, a lot of the people that we recorded there are actually
going to be contributing modules to the other course, right?
So I think that would be one thing we, we have up till now, largely been talking about
the Habitat course that's already live that people can sign up for right now, but we have
another course that's complimentary that we already have recorded the footage for.
So can you guys talk about, you know, what, what's the difference in them?
What's what are you going to have in that course?
So the other course is going to get in a lot of ways into some of the historical side of
things a lot more into the actual like hunting approaches side of things.
I'll be in the other course talking about human dimensions, if anybody cares about that,
get excited.
So yeah, it's coming at things from more of like an introductory kind of standpoint.
Like if you're getting started in the Turkey world, like this course is a little bit more
geared towards you, whereas the course that's live now is more geared towards, you know,
people who are looking for those tips who are already managing their land and trying
to make improvements to really get more turkeys on their land.
Yeah I think the one we have out now is very like hands on practical.
Like if you want to get started, this is what you need.
And then the second course is, as you as you said, Zach, complimentary, right?
So if the first one really interested you and you want more and you want to dive a little
bit deeper, yeah, that's what the second course is.
Yeah, so with the second one, I think that was a great way to describe it.
I don't know that I would necessarily say it's introductory overall, but it has like
the history of wild turkeys, like what happened with wild turkeys, the history of the restoration
efforts we even, I was trying to think, cause I think I was there while we were recording.
So who, do you guys want to?
Is David Hawley.
So David Hawley was one of them.
So he's from Mossy Oak and he and I grew up in the same town.
I don't even know if you guys knew that.
Did we talk about that?
Yeah, we did.
Yeah, you did mention that.
Yeah, we were a little bit of an age gap, I'm a little older than he is, but we knew
each other well and you know, we've, we've all, our families have always known each other.
But yeah, so he talks some about the history and also about hunting tactics and goes through,
you know, and I think he even, he may have brought up the story to you guys, but when
he was, I think he was 13 or 14 years old, he went on to, what was it?
The Tonight Show.
I think it was David Letterman.
Yeah.
David Letterman.
So yeah, he went on that show to showcase calling, you know, even at that young age.
So it's like just to me, one of those people that's just really gifted, you know, and I'm
sure a lot of that came from practice and his, his intense passion for wild turkeys.
But we wanted to try to capture some of that knowledge and energy from him.
And he, he was more than happy to jump on and, and help us.
And he was one of them that recorded there, but who else did you record there?
It was Brent.
Yeah.
Brent Rogers.
Yeah.
So, so Gobble Gitter, I think is what he goes by online.
So Brent, you know, is one of those people that is just passionate about wild turkeys
and he's kind of a, I don't want to say amateur because he's so good at it, but he's like
a historian, but that's not his profession, what I mean.
Yeah.
It was like, I was so surprised when he was like, oh, this is just kind of like a hobby
that I do.
I actually like have another job.
I was like, oh, you're.
He has all this awesome, like historical stuff that he's collected, just like writings and,
you know, different objects and things from all this era and, and, you know, hearing him
talk through the history of all turkeys is pretty, pretty incredible.
So yeah.
But we also have other parts of it.
Like we have some things about the biology of turkeys and ecology of turkeys that are
going to go into this course, you know, that are, you know, just things that are important
to understand and interesting to know about turkeys.
You know, the, the role that hunting has played in the conservation of the species, just basic,
more basic biological things like, you know, the mating system and, and population of related
things, you know, things related to their physiology, what, what other, what am I missing
in here?
What, what else is going to go into that course?
Yeah.
And did you mention like the, going through the different subspecies, cause yeah, Brandon
are contributing that.
Two of our PhD students that are working on wild turkeys and doing, helping us a lot with
the extension here, put together some, some subspecies profiles and talked about that.
Yeah.
So, you know, I, I think it's pretty cool to have this, you know, the idea, I guess,
was to be completely comprehensive, but also not have it be 40 hours long.
So we split it and that's kind of the, how we decided to split it was, and that was based
on that feedback you were talking about, Zach, from, from folks.
They really wanted it to be management centric.
And we, so we split it to have one that's really management centric and one that's more
geared toward understanding how, you know, the history of turkeys, the importance of
hunters, the funding model.
That was another thing that's in there.
Like how are we funding conservation, the role that hunters are playing in that.
Hunting 101, like, what do you need to go hunting?
Here's some strategy and tactics and, and how to, to use calls and that sort of thing.
So, you know, very complimentary forces.
Yeah.
So I know when, uh, when we were filming Brent, I was in there watching and it was just like
one thing after another, after another, like he was just saying stuff and I was like, as
an enthusiast, I was glued to it, you know, and he, uh, he's done a couple of really cool
works recently.
He, he did some work with mossy oak, you know, that, uh, people have seen with some of the
historical things they've been doing and yeah, just so knowledgeable about all that.
Yeah.
His section of the course was really super interesting.
I mean, as someone like who didn't really know anything about turkeys, it was really
cool to learn all that about turkeys, um, from him.
It was very engaging and interesting.
I'm excited to put that out in part two.
Yeah.
I got a lot out of both his and David's and we also learned about David's secret talent
where he's actually one of the best impersonators on the planet.
He was doing some impersonations that were better than some people in Hollywood.
I was like, wow.
It was so fun to film with him.
He was doing David Attenborough and it was like, David was like in the room with us.
Yeah.
That was crazy.
I didn't even know that, you know, even though I, I grew up in the same town with him, uh,
I didn't know that he was that, that skilled.
Yeah.
He had all of us laughing.
Yeah.
So who, who else is contributing to that?
That course, I know, I think I'm going to have, uh, a contribution in it.
And did Carolina Baruzzi also, Carolina and Colter as well.
I think Colter has one in there, Colter Chitwood and then Mark McConnell has one in there,
right?
Yup.
So we also had Mark Turner, but it took me a minute.
I think Mark Turner's contributions are both in the habitat or the management centric one.
Yup.
So, yeah, really cool and, uh, really awesome to watch it develop and come to fruition and
now to be getting feedback on it, you know, with the first one, at least.
So, yeah, that was really cool to, to watch this all come and I appreciate all the hard
work from you guys.
I think a lot of people out there do, so it's, it's nice to, to give you guys a platform
to talk about that experience.
Yeah, it was, it was really fun, um, doing it.
Like if I look back on it and reflect on it, it was really cool experience.
And it's actually crazy to think that we did all the filming in like two months.
Cause I remember like we were talking about it in December and it was like, yo, we're
going to do this and this and this.
And I'm like, okay, but January is next month.
And January came and it's like, okay, you guys are flying here, driving here.
And we did it.
We got it done in like two months, the filming.
And then we edited it.
And yeah, I think we, we made a really cool thing.
Yeah.
We, we had some big time assist from people along the way.
Like there's a lot of folks were super appreciative to like your buddy, Chris, Mark Marcus, um,
he was super kind to us, him and his entire family.
Um, they did a ton of stuff for us while we were out there.
We got to go hunting on their property, which was really, really cool.
Um, and then obviously Craig, um, let us stay over there and made us delicious meals.
Um, there was just a lot of, yeah, and David gave both of us, um, a call, which was really
cool as well.
Um, so yeah, there's just so many moments that I look back on and I'm like, wow, I really
appreciate, um, that we had this opportunity and that people were willing to step up and
help us and do so many kind things for us.
Yeah.
And people were really, um, very kind and very like welcoming and it was, it was so
cool to meet everyone and get, yeah, to have this experience.
Everyone was really great.
Yeah.
That's cool.
Well, one, one last thing that, that I thought about, you know, we've gotten some feedback.
Do you, do you know, Zach, like what some of those sentiments are?
And also the other question, I was just curious if you have a sense for how much acreage is
being affected so far.
Um, I'd have to double check to see like what the, the acreage is.
I don't have that off the top of my head.
Um, but yeah, like a lot of the sentiments have just been, you know, there's a lot of
things in the course, um, that I think people hadn't really put too much thought into, like,
especially when you get into like the pathogen side of things.
Um, that's something that, um, I think a lot of landowners are a little unfamiliar with.
So they've really benefited from learning about, um, those kinds of topics that, um,
you really have to dive into if you're going to, you know, get a deeper understanding of
that.
So that was, um, a really good module that TJ and Sam put together, um, and then some
of the stuff on, you know, the, the predator management side of things and, you know, emphasizing
that habitat management in a lot of ways is predator management.
Um, so yeah, a lot of the feedback we've gotten is just on, you know, you guys shed light
on things that I hadn't considered as much, um, in my own research or talking to the people
that I value in terms of improving my, my land management.
Yeah.
And even for me, like, you know, having, having, uh, the population management sections,
I guess, like I was thinking about Anna Mueller, what she contributed, like she, uh, like her
whole, her, uh, research program is on how to monitor populations better.
She works with turkeys as part of that.
Uh, but you, you know, just talking about a plan for how you can monitor your success
and your population status on your, on your land, like there's so much in, in it, this,
it's even hard for me to think through all the things that are in it, honestly.
I know, uh, you know, you guys have, have talked about that in the past, it was a pretty
overwhelming project to, to see to fruition, but.
But we did it and we're like, here's all our goals and it's live and people are taking
it, which is so cool and so exciting.
People are learning from it.
Yeah.
Please take the surveys on there.
That's for Zach.
Well, not just me and Nesha, Nesha had a lot to do with that.
Yeah.
Her PhD program is on, is, uh, utilizing that information as well.
So yeah.
Yeah.
We're getting a lot of good stuff out of that.
And yeah, I also want to just throw into like the amount of time that Dot had to put up
with me in the car.
So I'm, I'm very grateful for Dot for not throwing me out the window at some point.
Cause we listened to a lot of my weird podcasts that, that I enjoy.
Um, and I'm into more of the like scary story stuff.
So we were doing some late drives with these terrifying stories playing.
Um, and then I'm into mostly like rock and metal.
So Dot was putting up with my music too.
So props to you Dot.
That did remind me of one thing.
Can you describe what your ride back from Tennessee was like with me?
Okay.
So I've been in the car with people who love a band before, but I've never been in the
car with someone who loves a band.
Like Marcus Lowe's ACDC, like we probably listened to maybe 38 straight ACDC songs and
every single one of the next songs, Marcus is like, Oh, this song is going to change
your life.
And then he would be belt in that song and the top of his lungs, know every lyric.
And then we get to the end and he'd be like, what'd you think about that one, man?
It was incredible.
Right?
I was like, there has to be a point where the, the songs aren't as good as the last
one, but he's that passionate about every single one.
Well, that came from a discussion.
I, now I can't remember where it was and what we were talking about, but I just was like,
you know, we were, we got on greatest rock and roll bands.
And I was like, well, I think it's hard to compete with ACDC because they have platinum
records in four different decades.
And, uh, you know, we went back and forth and then Zach was like, all right, let's let's
hear the playlist.
And we literally did not run out of songs for the entire drive all the way from Knoxville
back to Gainesville, which I think is pretty impressive.
Yeah.
And we were, it was definitely getting us pumped up because we were making really good
time getting home too.
We were flying and you were like, uh, I think there was like one song that you're like,
yeah, that one wasn't so good, but the other one's pretty good songs.
Well, and the one song was there like joke song that they put out or whatever.
Yeah.
It was like a spoof, uh, but overall it was pretty, pretty decent experience, you know?
Yeah.
That's one of my words.
Cause I think before we started playing and I was like, yeah, they've got like eight or
nine pretty good songs.
And then we were on song 30 and I was like, all right, well, I guess I'm wrong here.
One other thing, like on YouTube, when we were looking at them, I was trying to, I forgot
what the number was, but it wasn't like 18 or 20 songs that were downloaded billions
of times or listened to or whatever they're tracking on there.
And I was like, man, I can't find another artist that has more than two or three that
are in the billions.
You know?
Well, when you were pulling up like a lot of the videos too, and like you were showing
me like stuff from the concert and you were like, look at these people that are losing
their mind.
And you're like, I'm going to that concert in a month and I'm going to be losing my mind.
And I did.
It was so awesome.
Yeah.
I went to see him in Tampa and that was amazing.
Oh yeah, that was, that was one of the downsides to the course was, you know, we were bouncing
around so much.
I missed out on a lot of the concerts I was hoping, hoping to go to.
And here's my, my little jab at the NWTF convention.
I feel like they need to make sure they don't schedule it when the Daytona 500 is going
on because poor, poor dot on the drive back from that, um, I made her listen to the MRN,
which is like the radio network that does NASCAR, like the whole NASCAR feed of the
Daytona 500, which if you're into NASCAR, like I am like, that's fine.
But if you're not, you're literally listening to these people on the radio talking about
cars going in a circle.
Yep.
I had no idea what I was listening to.
I was like, and I mean, we live super close to it as well, but I had no idea.
Um, but it was, I think it was canceled as well.
Like we listened to it, but it rained out or something.
It was postponed.
Yeah.
I think it got like delayed.
So it ended up working out.
Yeah.
I can't remember.
I just, we had it going for a little bit.
It, it wasn't, it wasn't so bad driving with you Zach.
Lots of, lots of camping and hiking horror stories and.
Well, and dot picked up pretty quickly on a lot of my like idiosyncrasies.
Like I've got pretty bad, like anxiety and I have a lot of OCD tendencies.
So for me to like leave the truck, sometimes I've got to check the door like eight times
and make sure that like, everything's locked up.
Yeah.
If you've got something valuable in there, even if there's nothing valuable in there,
I'm just paranoid about checking stuff.
And I feel like probably like halfway through film and everything.
Dot got to the point where she's like, I'm on like, just leave it.
It's locked.
Like, and of course it works out like one of the last trips we did, we were at, um,
the Oklahoma city airport and we were returned in the rental car that we had.
And I was doing my crazy checks and was making sure I didn't forget anything.
And dots like, come on, like, let's just get to the airport.
Like we can go.
And I'm like, all right, fine.
Like I'll leave.
And of course that's the one time I forgot my like $400 prescription sunglasses in the
truck.
And it haunts me to this day that I didn't do my like fifth check and then find that.
Um, cause I know I would have.
So I like to blame dot, even though it's my fault for losing them.
I must say your checks that I, I can't recall exactly what it was, but your crazy shakes
that did save us one or two times where we almost forgot things.
So nice.
I'll, I'll give you that.
Count it.
That's a W for me.
Yeah.
Well, is there anything else, like anything that you wanted to share that I didn't ask
you about?
I mean, I, I can't think of anything that's off of my head and you Zach, no, I was looking
through, I had some notes, but yeah, I think we covered any, everything.
Yeah.
I guess like, uh, just take this time to thank everybody who's, you know, already signed
up for the course, already completed the course.
Um, we're super grateful for that.
And, um, like we've kind of alluded to in the podcast, um, keep giving feedback, keep
letting us know what you thought of the course and ways we can improve the course.
Cause this isn't a static thing.
Um, we're going to continue to update this course and, uh, make changes.
So, you know, as you go through it and you have any kind of recommendations, um, of how
we can improve things, or like we mentioned for the second course, things that you think
would be beneficial.
Um, definitely let us know, um, cause yeah, we really appreciate that.
Yeah.
And I'll add to that, the, you know, the more successful the course is, the more, I mean,
it's funding that like a self funded.
So the more successful it is, the more we can put into it and the, the more products
that we're ultimately come out of it down the road.
So, you know, if you enjoyed that, make sure you check out the other course when it goes
live.
Uh, you know, share it with, with others to help us spread the word, you know, anything
that people can do to help us get it in front of more people, I think is ultimately good
for the resource, but also is good for, for the programming because we'll be able to put
more back into it.
And so self-funded.
Yeah.
For sure.
All right.
Well, it was really fun talking to you guys about it.
I've heard pieces of, of these stories and things, you know, over the last several months,
but it was nice to kind of talk through all of what went into developing these courses
and hearing your side of things.
So really fun to do that.
Yeah.
Thank you for having us.
Yeah.
Thanks for having us.
Yeah.
Thanks everybody out there for listening.
We appreciate all the support.
Like always.
Uh, if you hadn't had a chance, please drop us a rating, you know, check out the course
if you haven't gotten a chance, it's, uh, I think really valuable stuff and, and a lot
of people are giving us that kind of feedback, helping us share the podcast and other things
are always helpful.
So thanks everybody for, for all the support out there.
Wild Turkey Science is part of the Natural Resources University Podcast Network and is
made possible by Turkeys for Tomorrow, a grassroots organization dedicated to the wild turkey.
To learn more about TFT, check out turkeysfortomorrow.org.
Thanks.
you