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Welcome to this episode of the
Award-Winning Best of the Left Podcast.

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Today we examine the life and legacy
of Reverend Jesse Jackson civil rights

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icon, two-time presidential candidate
and one of the most consequential

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political figures of the 20th century.

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We'll hear Jackson's own
soaring words from the 1984 and

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1988 Democratic Conventions.

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Reflections on how he transformed the
Democratic Party from the inside, and

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analysis of why his Rainbow Coalition
vision feels more urgent than ever

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in the current political moment.

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For those.

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Looking for a quick overview.

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The sources providing our top
takes in about 45 minutes today.

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Include here and now.

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Anytime.

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Sesame Street takes by Jamelle
Bouie, Roland s Martin,

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the zero hour and CBS news.

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Then in the additional deeper dives, half
of the show there will be more in four

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sections, section A, presidential runs,
section B, rainbow Coalition, section

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C, the Man and Section D, his legacy.

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But first, a reminder to check
out our new show solved on the

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best of left YouTube channel.

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We're really proud of the show we're
making and think you'll get real value

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out of it, plus you checking it out.

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We'll help us find new viewers on YouTube.

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So thanks in advance for all of your
views, likes, subscribes, and comments.

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That's all on the best
of left YouTube channel.

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Linked in the show notes
and now onto the show.

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A mighty lion has fallen.

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And he was indeed a line for justice.

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He protected people and he
brought a lot of people along.

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He knew that civil rights
was bigger than just black.

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You know that speech in 63 is one
of 'em, but the speech a lot of

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people need to listen to today is 84.

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At the presidential, uh, convention.

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It's the kind of speech
we need to hear today.

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The kind of agenda to take on this
authoritarian now, because he said,

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what we really need is a rainbow,
where we bring together black and

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white and brown and the Asian and
indigenous all people together

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around our deepest moral of values.

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And Jesse was able to do that.

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He, he built a political movement.

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He was, say he didn't win, but he did in
some ways 7 million more in the party.

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Change the party rules, push things
into the agenda for poor and low wealth

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people that wouldn't have been there
and really gave the kind of progressive

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agenda that we actually need today, uh,
to push back against authoritarianism.

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'cause he knew that politics needed
to be more than about Democrat versus

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Republican, but about right versus
wrong and about lifting from the bottom.

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You know, well earlier on, uh,
in his life, Jesse Jackson joined

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lunch, counter sit-ins, marched in
Montgomery, Selma, Alabama, founded

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organizations for social justice.

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Um, and then you mentioned,
uh, him running for president.

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So let's listen to him speaking
in 1984 at the Tindley Temple United Methodist

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Church in Philadelphia.

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It's time for a new
course, a new coalition.

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Leadership, somebody.

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Got the rise above race, rise above sex
or new leadership, A choice, a chance.

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Don't cry by what you don't have.

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Use what you got.

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Jackson.

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You ain't got more votes than any other
black candidate, uh, at the time in 1988.

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Came in second in the Democratic primary.

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But to reflect on what we
just heard, what did you hear?

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Yeah, he got more votes than
many white candidates he beat.

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I mean, he won in South Carolina,
Mississippi came in second Tennessee won

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in Virginia, came second, North Carolina.

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What I hear is him saying, and you
know, this is right after Reaganism

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and uh, or during that time when
Reagan was, was robbed, and he's

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saying he's given a hope notice.

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He's not just doing a list of
grievances, he's giving people

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a vision, a vision of hope.

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If you listen to him deeper,
he goes straight into policy

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and that's what we need today.

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'cause just having grievances about
Trump, what he does, we already know

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what he's gonna do and what he has done.

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But politicians, they need to turn now to.

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If you get elected, what are you gonna do?

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What's your hope?

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What's gonna happen to the man who
doesn't make a living wage, woman

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that doesn't have healthcare, or
the child that needs more education?

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Jesse had a way of keeping hope alive.

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Even when he criticized, he didn't
even criticize people's personally.

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He criticized their policy.

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But he didn't just stay on the grievances.

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He lifted out, as he said, there a
chance, not just crying about what

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you don't have, but what you can
have and what you must fight for.

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And everywhere he went when I was
with him, he would sometimes register

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more voters than he would take more
time doing that than he would speaking

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because he understood how to build power.

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People have to be clear about their
vision, clear about the moral, uh,

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implications, and then they must
bring in those who have been pushed

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out in order to expand the, the
possibilities of power and the party.

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Yeah.

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Well, taking us to the issues of, of
today, the policy issues of today,

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you have called Jesse Jackson,
a living bridge between eras.

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Just briefly tell us
what you mean by that.

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Well, in some ways, um, like in the Bible,
Samson was a bridge between Saul and sa,

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uh uh, and, and David Jesse Jackson was
the best of both the civil rights of the

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sixties and the new politics post, the
Civil Rights movement post of life of Dr.

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King.

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He took seriously what Dr. King said.

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The greatest fear of the greedy oligarch
in this nation would be for the masses of

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black people in brown and white to join
together and form a political alliance.

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That could reshape the economic
architecture of this country.

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He knew that we had to
do race and economics.

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It's not either or, it's
both and, and we miss him.

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But the way we honor him is pick up the
baton where he dropped it and carried on,

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which is what we're gonna try to do and
have been trying to do through repairs of

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the breach and the moral fusion movement.

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You ready on the stop?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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Here we go.

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I am.

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I'm somebody, somebody.

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I'm, I'm somebody.

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Somebody.

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I may be poor, I may be
poor, but I'm somebody.

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Somebody, I may be young, but I am.

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Somebody, somebody.

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I may be on welfare.

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I may be on welfare, but I'm,
but I'm somebody, somebody.

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I may be small.

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I may be small, but I
am, but I'm somebody.

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Somebody, I may make a mistake.

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I may make mistake, but
I'm, but I'm somebody.

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Somebody.

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My clothes are different.

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My clothes are different.

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My face is different.

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My face is different.

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My hair is different.

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My dad, but I am.

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But I'm somebody.

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Somebody.

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I am black.

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I'm black.

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Brown, brown, white, white.

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I speak a different language.

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I speak a different language.

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But I must be respected.

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But respected.

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Protected it.

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Never rejected, never reject it.

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I am.

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I'm God's child.

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God's I am.

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Somebody give yourself a big hand.

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Our flag is red, white, and blue,
but our nation is rainbow, red,

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yellow, brown, black and white.

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We are all precious in God's sight.

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America, America's not like a blanket,
one piece of unbroken cloth, the same

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color, the same texture, the same size.

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America's more like a quilt.

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Many patches, many pieces,
many colors, many sizes.

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All woven and held together
by a common thread.

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It is worth taking a moment to
talk about Jesse Jackson's legacy.

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I think if you are of a certain
age, Jackson, uh, was presented in

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media as something of a punchline,
uh, someone to make light of.

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But in my view, Jesse Jackson was one
of the most consequential political

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figures of the post-war United States.

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So for some quick background,
he grows up in Jim Crow.

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He is.

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One of the younger members, younger
leadership in the Southern Christian

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Leadership Conference, the SCLC, he
is widely considered to be kind of

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one of the potential heirs to MLK.

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He is with MLK, uh, when
King is assassinated in 1968.

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Internal conflict at the SCLC after
King's Death pushes Jackson out and he

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forms, uh, the PUSH Coalition, which
becomes the main vehicle for his activism.

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He is a prominent black activist in
the 1970s and in 1984, kind of making

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a transition from the world of activism
to the world of electoral politics.

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He makes a run for the Democratic
nomination for President, and in that 1984

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campaign, he comes surprisingly close.

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To not winning the nomination, but
being one of the stronger runner ups.

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And four years later, in 1988, he
makes a second run that is all the

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more successful and earns him enough
delegates to make him a serious contender.

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So Jackson's two campaigns for
the presidency, uh, end up being

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the furthest of Black American.

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Prior to Barack Obama came to
getting a major party nomination and

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successful enough to really shape the
response of the entire party to him.

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So.

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Why is Jackson so significant?

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The first, I think the first major thing,
the obvious thing is that there is no

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Barack Obama without Jesse Jackson.

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There is no Barack Obama candidacy.

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Jackson again, made it clear in the
1980s that a black person, a black

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man at the very least, could win.

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A major party nomination and Obama's
effort rests on Jesse Jackson.

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There simply is no Obama without
Jackson, but if you wanna look

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broader than that, Jesse Jackson's
two campaigns for the presidency were

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genuinely social democratic in nature.

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He deployed this metaphor in his campaigns
of a quilt of the American electorate,

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of the broad people being both.

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Particular communities with
particular identities and particular

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problems, but yet knitted together
that those problems are connected,

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that the problems of the farmer.

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And in 84, he's running his campaign
in the midst of a major farm crisis.

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The problems of the Iowa Farmer.

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Aren't too different than the problems
of the inner city, African American

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and that a kind of policy approach, a
politics that can address the concerns

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and the challenges of the inner city.

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Black American is attuned also to
the challenges of the farmer Jackson.

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Urged his listeners urged his supporters
to not silo themselves out, but but

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recognize their struggles in each other
and build a politics around shared

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struggle and around shared efforts
to build a more egalitarian country.

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Our choice, full participation
in the democratic government,

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a more abandonment and neglect.

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And so this night we choose not
a false sense of independence.

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Not our capacity to
survive and endure the not.

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We choose interdependency and our capacity
to act and unite for the greater good

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in the urchin to recognize that
egalitarianism for some cannot be

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egalitarianism for all that one must.

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Both be attuned, again, attuned to the
particular conditions of particular people

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in particular groups with an awareness
of the whole and the importance of

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building a more equal society overall.

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And it's that message from Jackson's
campaigns that you can see in the

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Sanders campaign in 2016, in 2020,
that you can see in the Mamdani

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campaign for New York Mayor in 2025.

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And that, I think, and I've
thought this for some time now,

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I wrote about this back in 2016.

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I think that this message.

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Is still quite powerful and still
could form a useful template for

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thinking about how to build a
durable, egalitarian politics.

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Now, Jackson was not perfect.

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He was often inattentive to the
struggles of women in particular,

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and intersectionality as a. An
intellectual idea as discipline emerges

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out of dissatisfaction with civil
rights leaders like Jackson and their

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inability to bring a gender analysis
into their thinking about the world.

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So Jackson, not perfect Jackson.

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A complicated manatees been the
subject of various controversies.

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So we're not holding them up as a saint
or anything, but simply noting that

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he is a political figure that is very
influential, who is very important.

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Uh, and whose ideas and approach I
think still have a lot to teach us.

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Uh, and there's still a lot from
which we can learn, uh, when it

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comes to not just combating all
of this, uh, but also thinking

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about how to forge a better world.

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House speaker Mike Johnson declined
the request, uh, by Democrats for

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00:13:16,389 --> 00:13:21,069
Reverend Jesse Jackson seeking to lie
in honor at the US Capitol Rotunda.

238
00:13:21,879 --> 00:13:26,199
Now, keep in mind, uh, there's only
four times in American history, uh,

239
00:13:26,229 --> 00:13:28,779
that citizens have, uh, lied in honor.

240
00:13:28,779 --> 00:13:32,649
Now an official lies in state,
uh, sentences lie in honor.

241
00:13:32,649 --> 00:13:36,404
Rosa Parks was the first, Billy Graham
was the second, and the two cops.

242
00:13:37,149 --> 00:13:39,609
Uh, who died in the
aftermath of January 6th.

243
00:13:39,639 --> 00:13:44,319
They also got that honor as well in
terms of politicians, black politicians,

244
00:13:44,649 --> 00:13:48,399
uh, former congressman, uh, Congressman
Elijah Cummings was first Congressman.

245
00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:49,659
John Lewis was second.

246
00:13:50,019 --> 00:13:55,719
Uh, Congressman Cummings, uh, lied
in honor in Statuary Hall, um, Lewis,

247
00:13:55,719 --> 00:13:59,949
that happened during C so they had
him on the East steps, uh, because he

248
00:13:59,949 --> 00:14:02,649
was supposed to, initially supposed to
be in the Capitol rotunda, but he was

249
00:14:02,649 --> 00:14:04,299
in the east steps of, of the capitol.

250
00:14:04,749 --> 00:14:08,739
Uh, and so, uh, so media's been
reporting in left and right.

251
00:14:08,829 --> 00:14:11,409
Uh, but the reality is, uh,
I, I broke it last night.

252
00:14:11,589 --> 00:14:15,909
I got a so who told me that and I got
confirmed, uh, on Capitol Hill as well.

253
00:14:16,239 --> 00:14:19,719
Uh, and keep in mind that these
Republicans, Donald Trump lore the

254
00:14:19,719 --> 00:14:24,009
flags in this country, Lord, uh, to
have staff in honor of Charlie Kirk.

255
00:14:24,099 --> 00:14:25,839
A lot of people have been
commenting on social media.

256
00:14:26,049 --> 00:14:30,249
Charlie Kirk did not lie in honor at
the US Capitol, but flags were, Lord

257
00:14:30,459 --> 00:14:32,019
Trump has made no such declaration.

258
00:14:32,599 --> 00:14:36,229
I mean, the reality is, so this
is what a Speaker Johnson said.

259
00:14:36,499 --> 00:14:40,099
They, they, they claimed, they really
went back to the old rules that only

260
00:14:40,099 --> 00:14:45,409
presidents the honor of lying in state or
lying in honor, uh, was only reserved for

261
00:14:45,469 --> 00:14:47,959
former presidents, uh, who passed away.

262
00:14:47,959 --> 00:14:51,019
And, but the reality is
leadership can change the rule.

263
00:14:51,019 --> 00:14:51,499
They want to.

264
00:14:52,114 --> 00:14:53,524
Uh, Democrats did that.

265
00:14:53,554 --> 00:14:54,814
They made other exceptions.

266
00:14:54,814 --> 00:14:56,464
And so those things have happened.

267
00:14:56,734 --> 00:14:58,894
Uh, but that was the
decision that was made.

268
00:14:59,134 --> 00:15:02,884
Uh, and so, uh, been lot talk,
lot chatter on social media about

269
00:15:02,884 --> 00:15:07,774
how, uh, republicans, uh, are, you
know, frankly, uh, not properly

270
00:15:07,774 --> 00:15:10,954
acknowledging the contributions
of Reverend Jesse Jackson Senior.

271
00:15:10,954 --> 00:15:15,424
But there's no, there's no shock
to me that they would do this, that

272
00:15:15,424 --> 00:15:19,234
they would not, uh, honor Reverend
Jackson, uh, in this way, uh,

273
00:15:19,234 --> 00:15:21,039
because he was a thorn in their heel.

274
00:15:21,829 --> 00:15:24,919
Uh, and so, but in the reality
is they're not gonna go above,

275
00:15:25,129 --> 00:15:27,079
uh, partisanship, uh, at all.

276
00:15:27,079 --> 00:15:29,119
And so, so you got that going on.

277
00:15:29,119 --> 00:15:31,579
Also, keep in mind, we told you
last night we had Congressman

278
00:15:31,579 --> 00:15:33,409
Jonathan Jackson on the show.

279
00:15:33,679 --> 00:15:37,459
And so the funeral plans, uh, of
Reverend Jackson, uh, have been released.

280
00:15:37,459 --> 00:15:40,519
They're still affirming up, so we're
still waiting to get the details of when

281
00:15:40,519 --> 00:15:45,349
he's going to lie, uh, in state at the
South Carolina Capitol and what's gonna

282
00:15:45,349 --> 00:15:47,449
be happening here in Washington, dc.

283
00:15:47,809 --> 00:15:48,439
Uh, but.

284
00:15:48,709 --> 00:15:52,699
Uh, he will be lying in the state
rainbow push in Chicago on Friday, uh,

285
00:15:52,729 --> 00:15:58,159
February 27th, and then of course the
following week, March 4th, March 5th.

286
00:15:58,489 --> 00:16:02,719
Then on March 6th, you're gonna have
the people celebration taking place

287
00:16:02,719 --> 00:16:04,189
at the House of Hope in Chicago.

288
00:16:04,339 --> 00:16:07,699
That's where all of the dignitaries
in the main speakers, former

289
00:16:07,699 --> 00:16:09,139
presidents are going to be.

290
00:16:09,319 --> 00:16:12,139
And on, on March 7th, there's
gonna be a private, um.

291
00:16:12,454 --> 00:16:15,994
Funeral taking place at
Rainbow Push, uh, as well.

292
00:16:15,994 --> 00:16:18,154
So that's what's going on, uh, there.

293
00:16:18,184 --> 00:16:22,504
So, uh, do we have, uh, Matt,
uh, Michael and Win univac?

294
00:16:26,104 --> 00:16:26,524
Okay.

295
00:16:26,854 --> 00:16:28,144
Uh, so Win Kuni.

296
00:16:28,144 --> 00:16:28,744
Uh, so we got you there.

297
00:16:28,744 --> 00:16:32,044
Just, I just wanna get your, your
thoughts on, uh, the Republicans,

298
00:16:32,074 --> 00:16:33,784
uh, not granting Democrats.

299
00:16:33,874 --> 00:16:38,764
The, uh, their request to have Reverend
Jackson lie in honor at the US Capitol.

300
00:16:40,369 --> 00:16:40,849
Honest.

301
00:16:40,969 --> 00:16:45,769
Honestly, Roland, I think it's just
another ex, uh, explanation of how

302
00:16:45,769 --> 00:16:50,689
bipartisan, how, how nonpartisan
this, uh, house has become.

303
00:16:50,959 --> 00:16:53,239
It's really, really scary when you're.

304
00:16:53,989 --> 00:16:58,009
Pushing this hyper-partisan this
to a level where people can't even

305
00:16:58,009 --> 00:17:02,449
respect people who have worked
their entire, entire career, um,

306
00:17:02,449 --> 00:17:04,009
for equality in this country.

307
00:17:04,009 --> 00:17:07,489
And I think it's just another
exemplification of the fact that the

308
00:17:07,489 --> 00:17:10,969
Republican party is not the Republican
party that we've known it to be.

309
00:17:10,969 --> 00:17:11,569
Historically.

310
00:17:11,569 --> 00:17:15,739
I think now we've seen it turn
into a party of white supremacists.

311
00:17:15,739 --> 00:17:19,039
And although some people may contest that
that's what it was before, I think we

312
00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:20,929
used to see there was an era of a more.

313
00:17:21,739 --> 00:17:22,969
Moderate Republican.

314
00:17:22,969 --> 00:17:27,289
I think now what we're seeing in
the Republican party is, is a lot

315
00:17:27,289 --> 00:17:31,639
of people that are, you know, UNC
cloaked as I would colloquially put it.

316
00:17:31,639 --> 00:17:36,499
And so they are really, really less,
less of Republicans and more of people

317
00:17:36,499 --> 00:17:39,049
that are lying in what this MAGA party.

318
00:17:39,169 --> 00:17:41,959
And so I think when we, when
we are thinking more so about

319
00:17:41,959 --> 00:17:43,729
the Republican of today's era.

320
00:17:44,154 --> 00:17:48,504
This doesn't actually surprise me, but it
is a slap in the face to Jesse Jackson.

321
00:17:48,504 --> 00:17:50,994
It's a slap in the face to
all of the things that he's

322
00:17:50,994 --> 00:17:52,224
accomplished over the years.

323
00:17:52,224 --> 00:17:54,144
It's a slap in the face to black America.

324
00:17:54,144 --> 00:17:57,654
But quite frankly, I think that's
exactly what it's intended as

325
00:18:00,694 --> 00:18:04,534
everybody talks about the Bernie voters
who didn't vote for Hillary or whatever.

326
00:18:04,864 --> 00:18:09,034
They don't talk about the democratic
voters, uh, base voters, black

327
00:18:09,034 --> 00:18:13,444
voters, other voters who stayed
home and swing states and argue,

328
00:18:13,474 --> 00:18:15,484
very arguably made the difference.

329
00:18:15,484 --> 00:18:21,784
So it seems as if this whole turnout
versus, uh, appealing to the center

330
00:18:22,114 --> 00:18:26,554
has been, uh, generations along
division in the Democratic party.

331
00:18:26,554 --> 00:18:27,274
Is that true?

332
00:18:27,784 --> 00:18:28,114
Yeah.

333
00:18:28,174 --> 00:18:29,014
Yeah, very much.

334
00:18:29,074 --> 00:18:33,394
Um, even as, like I said, even as
Clinton benefited from it, um, you

335
00:18:33,394 --> 00:18:39,094
know, in, in 1992 when he was running a,
you know, uh, most people are familiar

336
00:18:39,094 --> 00:18:43,864
with the sister soldier moment, or at
least they know that it, it means, um.

337
00:18:44,614 --> 00:18:47,014
That you're, you're kind of
turning on your own base.

338
00:18:47,344 --> 00:18:51,094
Um, and this was a, this was a famous
thing that Clinton did during his 92

339
00:18:51,094 --> 00:18:56,314
campaign, but what I think a lot of
people don't know is that, uh, the,

340
00:18:56,314 --> 00:19:02,824
the, the, the stage he chose to do
that was at the Rainbow Coalition 1992,

341
00:19:03,214 --> 00:19:05,284
uh, conference, the, the summer of 92.

342
00:19:05,284 --> 00:19:07,084
So it's the height, he's
the presidential nominee.

343
00:19:07,084 --> 00:19:09,454
It's the height of the
presidential contest.

344
00:19:09,724 --> 00:19:11,614
Jesse Jackson's sitting on stage.

345
00:19:12,604 --> 00:19:16,774
Um, while Clinton pulls off this
ambush, which is for people that don't

346
00:19:16,774 --> 00:19:23,464
know about it, uh, a a totally obscure
rapper named Sister Soldier, who, um,

347
00:19:23,464 --> 00:19:27,184
has since become a talented writer
and and poet, but she was a teenage,

348
00:19:27,454 --> 00:19:32,194
uh, rapper at the time, had never been
above, I think like 88 on, on Billboard.

349
00:19:32,614 --> 00:19:33,904
Um, he said, you know.

350
00:19:34,374 --> 00:19:38,574
Uh, a lot of people follow the words
of Sister Soldier, which was not true.

351
00:19:38,574 --> 00:19:40,734
Like most people had never even
heard of her at this point.

352
00:19:40,854 --> 00:19:45,774
And she had said in an interview
that somebody asked her, why are,

353
00:19:45,804 --> 00:19:50,154
why are, why, why is the black
community kind of burning its own

354
00:19:50,214 --> 00:19:52,134
neighborhoods in the LA riots right now?

355
00:19:52,134 --> 00:19:53,814
That's the thing that white
people are always asking.

356
00:19:53,814 --> 00:19:56,304
Why is, why, why are, why
are black people doing this?

357
00:19:56,904 --> 00:19:57,414
Um.

358
00:19:58,054 --> 00:20:02,524
And she said, you know, if you put
yourself in the, in the mindset of, uh,

359
00:20:02,794 --> 00:20:07,174
uh, of, of those people, this is, this
is not at all to be un uh, unexpected.

360
00:20:07,174 --> 00:20:09,124
You know, you could,
you can find her quote.

361
00:20:09,454 --> 00:20:13,834
Um, but he, he essentially, you know,
go, goes on stage and compares her

362
00:20:14,194 --> 00:20:17,644
and he literally compares her to David
Duke and says that it's important,

363
00:20:18,034 --> 00:20:22,924
um, you know, for all, you know, for
everybody to condemn Sister Soulja.

364
00:20:23,644 --> 00:20:28,144
And I think one, but one of his
targets really was Jesse Jackson

365
00:20:28,174 --> 00:20:32,464
and the, and the wing of the party,
uh, that, that he represented.

366
00:20:32,464 --> 00:20:36,544
He wanted to show that, that the
Clinton wing was, was dominant now.

367
00:20:36,604 --> 00:20:41,524
And, uh, you know, Jesse Jackson
demanded an apology, uh, for, uh, for

368
00:20:41,524 --> 00:20:43,414
what he did on stage at his conference.

369
00:20:43,414 --> 00:20:47,494
And, and he never delivered the apology,
which is another power move to say that.

370
00:20:47,854 --> 00:20:48,304
No.

371
00:20:48,574 --> 00:20:49,114
Um.

372
00:20:49,864 --> 00:20:51,814
I, you know, I'm running things now.

373
00:20:51,904 --> 00:20:53,074
This is, this is my party.

374
00:20:53,074 --> 00:20:57,694
So, uh, you know, so part of it was to
show he's gonna stand up to his base,

375
00:20:57,694 --> 00:20:59,644
and by his base it meant black voters.

376
00:20:59,884 --> 00:21:04,924
Um, the other part was to like, try
to smash this, uh, this, this forming,

377
00:21:05,314 --> 00:21:09,574
uh, rainbow coalition, which was the
biggest threat to dominance, you know,

378
00:21:09,574 --> 00:21:11,674
within, within the Democratic party.

379
00:21:12,499 --> 00:21:15,439
Well, you know, first of all, if
I'd been cis soldier and someone

380
00:21:15,439 --> 00:21:19,399
had asked me why, uh, and I had
been a member of the black community

381
00:21:19,399 --> 00:21:22,429
and somebody asked me why you were
burning your own community, I would've

382
00:21:22,429 --> 00:21:23,839
said, because I can't get to yours.

383
00:21:23,839 --> 00:21:27,199
But that's, that's why I am not, uh.

384
00:21:27,499 --> 00:21:29,509
In a position of responsibility anywhere.

385
00:21:29,779 --> 00:21:30,769
'cause they say things like that.

386
00:21:30,949 --> 00:21:34,909
The second, but the second and
more important point is, so you

387
00:21:34,909 --> 00:21:39,529
have basically Bill Clinton doing
a power move against his own base.

388
00:21:39,529 --> 00:21:44,719
It's a, it seems like it's appealing
to the worst instincts of white.

389
00:21:45,234 --> 00:21:49,704
Voters who wanna be distanced
from that kind of politics.

390
00:21:49,704 --> 00:21:54,504
Well, at the same time, as you point
out benefiting from the, uh, the voter

391
00:21:54,504 --> 00:22:00,024
turnout that, uh, that Jesse Jackson,
that Jesse Jackson and his organization

392
00:22:00,024 --> 00:22:03,864
and his wing of the party, uh, was able
to generate for the party, and this

393
00:22:03,864 --> 00:22:06,324
seems to me to be an ongoing tension.

394
00:22:06,324 --> 00:22:06,334
Mm-hmm.

395
00:22:06,584 --> 00:22:10,064
Attention that goes to this state,
but, but Brian, I wanted to go back to

396
00:22:10,094 --> 00:22:14,414
this point about evolving that you made
earlier and that Harry Reid evolved.

397
00:22:14,564 --> 00:22:19,394
It seems to me that there are ways in
which the Democratic establishment ha

398
00:22:19,574 --> 00:22:23,144
evolves and ways in which it doesn't,
and that, to me is interesting.

399
00:22:23,474 --> 00:22:30,464
It seems to me that it is very capable of
evolving on issues of marriage equality.

400
00:22:31,064 --> 00:22:37,814
Of reproductive rights of, of, uh,
we'll see about feminism in the age

401
00:22:37,814 --> 00:22:42,374
of me too, now that Joe Biden's in
the race because he seemed to say I'll

402
00:22:42,374 --> 00:22:44,204
evolve, but then make some, although

403
00:22:44,264 --> 00:22:46,814
let's let, let's take a couple of
those because those are interesting.

404
00:22:46,874 --> 00:22:50,444
Um, and I, and I go over this
history in the book of the, of

405
00:22:50,444 --> 00:22:52,064
the LGBT movement, for instance.

406
00:22:52,634 --> 00:22:55,124
Uh, that evolution was
kind of forced on them.

407
00:22:55,184 --> 00:22:55,274
Mm-hmm.

408
00:22:55,514 --> 00:22:59,834
You know, if, you know, if
you think back to 2009, 2010.

409
00:23:00,649 --> 00:23:05,749
Uh, the, uh, you know, the gay
community had to, you know, get equal.

410
00:23:05,749 --> 00:23:09,709
Came around and, and was protesting
Obama everywhere he went.

411
00:23:09,709 --> 00:23:12,649
Protesting, protesting
Reed at Net Roots Nation.

412
00:23:12,679 --> 00:23:12,949
Um.

413
00:23:13,849 --> 00:23:15,499
Didn't have to push Pelosi as much.

414
00:23:15,949 --> 00:23:20,839
Um, but, but generally like direct
action, you know, taking, you know, taking

415
00:23:20,839 --> 00:23:27,379
serious, um, making serious moves to,
to show that the status quo isn't work

416
00:23:27,379 --> 00:23:32,419
anymore because, um, they left to their
own devices, uh, they were not going to

417
00:23:32,419 --> 00:23:35,869
evolve and on, uh, on abortion rights.

418
00:23:36,589 --> 00:23:40,129
Uh, if you look at the, the fight that
Chuck Schumer didn't want to put up

419
00:23:40,519 --> 00:23:45,079
against Gorsuch, against the Circuit
Court judges against Kavanaugh, uh, you

420
00:23:45,079 --> 00:23:51,289
know, the, the, the, that's a, that's
a hangover from, from the 1980s when,

421
00:23:51,379 --> 00:23:56,179
when people like Schumer believed that
that's social issues, uh, gay rights,

422
00:23:56,239 --> 00:23:59,389
um, women's rights, civil rights, um.

423
00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:03,829
Uh, were, were, you know, abortion
rights were kind of hung around the

424
00:24:03,829 --> 00:24:07,549
party's neck, and, and they, you know,
they blame these kind of social issues.

425
00:24:07,549 --> 00:24:10,969
They, they believe that like the white
working glass felt, that felt that

426
00:24:10,969 --> 00:24:12,589
Democrats had gotten too liberal.

427
00:24:12,949 --> 00:24:17,479
Um, and were trying to foist the
social agenda onto the American public.

428
00:24:17,779 --> 00:24:23,179
And you can show Chuck Schumer all the
polls in the world that show him 80 plus

429
00:24:23,179 --> 00:24:25,219
percent support for abortion rights.

430
00:24:25,399 --> 00:24:26,449
It, it doesn't.

431
00:24:27,289 --> 00:24:28,339
It doesn't matter.

432
00:24:28,339 --> 00:24:32,509
The, his lizard brain from the eighties
tells him that it's controversial.

433
00:24:32,839 --> 00:24:32,929
Mm-hmm.

434
00:24:33,169 --> 00:24:36,859
And he needs to, and he needs to run away
from this issue as fast as he possibly

435
00:24:36,859 --> 00:24:41,779
can, you know, and get back on, uh, you
know, baggage fees, you know, or, or

436
00:24:41,779 --> 00:24:46,099
what, whatever else he, you know, he, he,
he, wherever he feels more comfortable.

437
00:24:46,519 --> 00:24:47,209
And so.

438
00:24:47,839 --> 00:24:48,709
Yes.

439
00:24:48,859 --> 00:24:52,399
You know, they've been capable of,
uh, evolving on some of those issues,

440
00:24:52,399 --> 00:24:58,369
but only, only when they've been, been
forced to and not because they, they,

441
00:24:58,374 --> 00:25:00,589
they, they really changed on the issue.

442
00:25:01,009 --> 00:25:03,949
I think one of the great examples
is, is the debt and deficit.

443
00:25:04,924 --> 00:25:09,754
You know, in, in the 1980s they all got,
uh, tarred as tax and spend liberals,

444
00:25:10,144 --> 00:25:14,464
and if you talk to them today about this,
they're still scarred from that, that

445
00:25:14,464 --> 00:25:17,269
time that, that, that stings today like.

446
00:25:18,814 --> 00:25:22,144
Yeah, the newer generation of progressives
is like, what are you talking about?

447
00:25:22,144 --> 00:25:22,924
Like, that's a joke.

448
00:25:22,924 --> 00:25:23,854
Tax and spend liberal.

449
00:25:23,854 --> 00:25:24,634
Get outta here.

450
00:25:25,234 --> 00:25:27,094
Um, who, who are you?

451
00:25:27,094 --> 00:25:27,484
Who are you?

452
00:25:27,484 --> 00:25:28,624
Who do you think you're offending with?

453
00:25:28,624 --> 00:25:30,154
Who do you think you're
bothering with this?

454
00:25:30,544 --> 00:25:33,964
But if you say, if you call a Chuck
Schumer, a tax and spend liberal,

455
00:25:33,964 --> 00:25:38,044
or a Nancy Pelosi, a tax and spend
liberal, it's kryptonite to them.

456
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,249
You know, they, they,
they melt before you.

457
00:25:40,729 --> 00:25:45,199
Uh, they believe that they didn't take
the debt and deficit seriously enough

458
00:25:45,199 --> 00:25:49,159
in the 1980s and 1970s, and they were
spending too much and that, and that,

459
00:25:49,519 --> 00:25:54,829
that cost them the, the support of the
American people and allowed Republicans

460
00:25:54,829 --> 00:26:00,019
to, uh, become the party of fiscal
rectitude, even though they were, you

461
00:26:00,019 --> 00:26:01,759
know, you know, they were jacking up the.

462
00:26:01,944 --> 00:26:05,484
Military budget, they were cutting
taxes, they were running up the deficit,

463
00:26:05,664 --> 00:26:07,284
but their rhetoric was different.

464
00:26:07,284 --> 00:26:11,574
So they, they, they are convinced that
if they can win that rhetorical debate

465
00:26:11,604 --> 00:26:16,764
around government spending the debt
and the deficit, uh, that their, that

466
00:26:16,764 --> 00:26:18,924
that's their path back to power and.

467
00:26:20,989 --> 00:26:25,429
I'm not gonna re-litigate the 1980s, but
we're not living in the 1980s anymore.

468
00:26:25,609 --> 00:26:28,399
You know, that's, that's, that's not
the conversation that the American

469
00:26:28,399 --> 00:26:30,079
public is, is having anymore.

470
00:26:30,349 --> 00:26:34,219
But because, you know, their
politics were forged in that time,

471
00:26:34,609 --> 00:26:36,049
they, they can't move past it.

472
00:26:36,049 --> 00:26:42,829
And so you have, you know, Nancy Pelosi
coming in in January of 2019 and pushing

473
00:26:43,189 --> 00:26:46,069
PayGo Pay as you go, uh, back onto.

474
00:26:46,549 --> 00:26:47,359
Her caucus.

475
00:26:47,419 --> 00:26:51,619
And the only way to understand that is
that this, this, these are scars from

476
00:26:51,619 --> 00:26:53,089
the eighties that are still healing.

477
00:26:53,389 --> 00:26:59,599
he didn't like to talk very much about
tactics and about, um, even his feelings.

478
00:27:00,134 --> 00:27:01,814
About certain things.

479
00:27:01,994 --> 00:27:03,674
He was very thematic.

480
00:27:03,674 --> 00:27:06,104
He, he talked a lot about power.

481
00:27:06,109 --> 00:27:06,279
Mm-hmm.

482
00:27:06,494 --> 00:27:13,724
About empowerment, about the goal of his
campaigns being to show people what their

483
00:27:13,724 --> 00:27:18,674
vote could do, being that goal, being
to show the democratic party that they

484
00:27:18,674 --> 00:27:21,404
had to do more than just pander mm-hmm.

485
00:27:21,674 --> 00:27:22,754
To voters of color.

486
00:27:22,964 --> 00:27:24,479
So he, he had a very.

487
00:27:25,644 --> 00:27:29,064
Kind of strong sense of what he
wanted to talk to, talk about.

488
00:27:29,124 --> 00:27:29,274
Yeah.

489
00:27:29,574 --> 00:27:34,584
And um, it was, I think largely unchanged
from how he's been for many, many years.

490
00:27:34,854 --> 00:27:38,124
And when I went with him to his hometown
in Greenville, South Carolina, we drove

491
00:27:38,124 --> 00:27:43,164
around in a car to around his neighborhood
and he was giving turn by turn

492
00:27:43,164 --> 00:27:45,894
directions, turn, turn right, turn left.

493
00:27:45,924 --> 00:27:47,724
And uh, this is where I grew up.

494
00:27:47,724 --> 00:27:48,804
This is where I went to school.

495
00:27:48,804 --> 00:27:49,974
Like you didn't, this is my high school.

496
00:27:50,244 --> 00:27:51,204
Didn't skip, didn't skip a beat.

497
00:27:51,204 --> 00:27:52,794
And that was amazing to see.

498
00:27:52,884 --> 00:27:53,094
Yeah.

499
00:27:53,244 --> 00:27:54,534
Uh, so Chicago.

500
00:27:56,154 --> 00:27:58,374
I think it's easy to
say, made Jesse Jackson.

501
00:27:58,374 --> 00:27:58,584
Right.

502
00:27:58,584 --> 00:27:59,664
But it also challenged him.

503
00:27:59,874 --> 00:28:00,384
Yes.

504
00:28:00,384 --> 00:28:00,394
Yes.

505
00:28:00,834 --> 00:28:02,814
What did you learn about how this city's.

506
00:28:03,654 --> 00:28:08,844
Politics, it's big personalities and
the power that lies here in Chicago

507
00:28:09,084 --> 00:28:12,954
and the power struggles, how all
of that defined who Jesse Jackson

508
00:28:12,954 --> 00:28:14,994
became as this national figure.

509
00:28:15,294 --> 00:28:20,034
You are so right to say that this city
made him, because this is where he,

510
00:28:20,364 --> 00:28:26,304
uh, by was given a task by Dr. King to
create Operation Breadbasket, which was

511
00:28:26,364 --> 00:28:30,834
the economic arm of, uh, uh, the SCLC.

512
00:28:30,894 --> 00:28:31,254
Um.

513
00:28:31,529 --> 00:28:37,229
The Southern leadership, uh, uh, Christian
Coalition, and that was the first time

514
00:28:37,229 --> 00:28:41,039
that that organization had really said,
we're gonna go into specific cities and

515
00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:46,019
we're gonna build up coalition politics,
not just around basic rights, like the

516
00:28:46,019 --> 00:28:50,069
right to vote or the right to walk into an
establishment and, and sit at the counter.

517
00:28:50,159 --> 00:28:50,309
Yeah.

518
00:28:50,309 --> 00:28:51,059
But, but of the.

519
00:28:51,364 --> 00:28:54,364
To participate in the
economic life of a community.

520
00:28:54,604 --> 00:28:58,024
And Jesse Jackson was extremely
successful in that task.

521
00:28:58,324 --> 00:29:01,504
But then after Dr. King died, he
had, he tried to turn his attention

522
00:29:01,504 --> 00:29:03,754
to politics and he was set back.

523
00:29:04,284 --> 00:29:06,054
By the Chicago machine.

524
00:29:06,059 --> 00:29:06,259
Mm-hmm.

525
00:29:06,444 --> 00:29:10,764
At the time, um, by, uh, mayor
Daley, who was an incredibly

526
00:29:10,764 --> 00:29:12,804
powerful political force.

527
00:29:12,804 --> 00:29:17,814
And at that time, you know, black voters
in Chicago were a part of the machine,

528
00:29:18,054 --> 00:29:20,574
but they weren't empowered by the machine.

529
00:29:20,934 --> 00:29:22,644
And so it was a. Yeah.

530
00:29:23,214 --> 00:29:24,684
More than 20 years struggle.

531
00:29:24,714 --> 00:29:24,924
Yeah.

532
00:29:25,164 --> 00:29:31,524
You know, between when, you know,
let's call it 1970 to 1983, when

533
00:29:31,524 --> 00:29:35,484
Harold Washington was elected for
that to really come to fruition.

534
00:29:35,484 --> 00:29:40,644
And one, one question that I had
for, for Reverend Jackson was, why?

535
00:29:40,704 --> 00:29:44,094
Why didn't you ever really
run for mayor of the city?

536
00:29:44,094 --> 00:29:45,984
Because you would seem logical, right?

537
00:29:45,984 --> 00:29:47,154
That he might want to.

538
00:29:47,769 --> 00:29:51,124
Run a city that he was such a part
of, did that he had actually so

539
00:29:51,124 --> 00:29:52,124
much power in, what did he say?

540
00:29:52,539 --> 00:29:58,029
Well, I think the answer was
that he did not see himself as a

541
00:29:58,029 --> 00:30:00,879
politician for a very long time.

542
00:30:01,299 --> 00:30:01,719
Interesting.

543
00:30:01,719 --> 00:30:06,909
That even his political advisors kind
of proposed to him on several occasions.

544
00:30:06,909 --> 00:30:07,959
Here's how you could do it.

545
00:30:07,959 --> 00:30:08,804
Here's what it would look like.

546
00:30:09,219 --> 00:30:13,299
He saw himself as a religious
leader, as an organizer.

547
00:30:14,139 --> 00:30:16,119
Um, he.

548
00:30:16,539 --> 00:30:22,629
He, one, one of his more famous rhyming
quotes that people, uh, people often

549
00:30:22,629 --> 00:30:26,739
cite is he used to say he was the
jelly shaker, not the jelly maker.

550
00:30:27,669 --> 00:30:29,409
So there was something about him Yeah.

551
00:30:29,439 --> 00:30:34,869
That he felt like his job was to, to
rally, to shake the establishment,

552
00:30:35,199 --> 00:30:37,059
to get them to pay attention.

553
00:30:37,179 --> 00:30:37,929
Mm. And other people.

554
00:30:38,469 --> 00:30:40,089
Would make the sausage.

555
00:30:40,809 --> 00:30:44,649
It wasn't until he ran for president
that he really fully contemplated what

556
00:30:44,649 --> 00:30:51,699
it would be like to have to actually run
something in politics and not just be.

557
00:30:52,824 --> 00:30:55,524
Um, a political, uh, not just
be a religious leader, but a

558
00:30:55,524 --> 00:30:57,234
political leader, a movement leader.

559
00:30:57,294 --> 00:30:57,624
Yeah.

560
00:30:57,894 --> 00:31:00,864
And as we've kind of already discussed,
I mean, there's no historical figure,

561
00:31:01,104 --> 00:31:04,854
especially one as grand as Jesse
Jackson that is without any kind of

562
00:31:04,854 --> 00:31:08,544
tension or, or, or somewhat complicated
story when you sum it all up.

563
00:31:09,114 --> 00:31:13,374
As you were writing the book,
Abby, what were maybe his most

564
00:31:13,374 --> 00:31:17,394
challenging life moments that
you, you maybe wondered whether.

565
00:31:17,814 --> 00:31:18,924
Or how to include?

566
00:31:19,914 --> 00:31:26,244
Well, the most pivotal moment of
controversy in these campaigns

567
00:31:26,244 --> 00:31:29,604
came in 19, in the 1984 campaign.

568
00:31:29,664 --> 00:31:31,764
This was at the, be almost
the beginning of 1983.

569
00:31:31,914 --> 00:31:32,124
Right?

570
00:31:32,124 --> 00:31:33,714
84. When.

571
00:31:34,269 --> 00:31:39,609
It was revealed that he had used the
term Hymietown in a private conversation,

572
00:31:39,909 --> 00:31:44,799
and that is for those who don't know,
um, kind of I guess somewhat old

573
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:47,949
time, uh, slur against Jewish people.

574
00:31:48,579 --> 00:31:50,229
Um, and.

575
00:31:51,624 --> 00:31:57,219
Uh, that was, I think, an unavoidable part
of his history to write about, because

576
00:31:57,219 --> 00:32:02,469
you can't tell the story of the 1984
campaign without telling the story of what

577
00:32:02,469 --> 00:32:04,209
happened when he had to confront that.

578
00:32:04,239 --> 00:32:12,969
Mm. And it, it, it was really, i, I
think a story of, um, his decision to.

579
00:32:13,704 --> 00:32:17,514
First, deny that he said
it and then own up to it.

580
00:32:18,504 --> 00:32:22,674
And dealing with some of the figures,
the controversial figures around him.

581
00:32:22,974 --> 00:32:25,914
Like Louis Farrakhan, the
Nation of Islam leader.

582
00:32:26,034 --> 00:32:26,214
Yeah.

583
00:32:26,244 --> 00:32:30,204
Who made it even more difficult
for him to move past it.

584
00:32:30,954 --> 00:32:35,094
And even before those campaigns, he
had struggled with his relationship

585
00:32:35,094 --> 00:32:38,994
with Jewish American leaders and um.

586
00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:43,449
And that's because of his support
for the Palestinian cause.

587
00:32:43,509 --> 00:32:43,599
Mm-hmm.

588
00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:51,489
And so that drama in the 1984 campaign
is the principle drama of that campaign.

589
00:32:51,519 --> 00:32:51,699
Yeah.

590
00:32:52,029 --> 00:32:53,569
And, and the way I like
to frame it is that.

591
00:32:54,234 --> 00:32:57,624
He started out that campaign
actually at an enormous high.

592
00:32:57,954 --> 00:33:02,664
He had just come back from Syria
where he went to the Middle East

593
00:33:03,114 --> 00:33:08,124
and single handedly brought back an
American prisoner of war who was being

594
00:33:08,124 --> 00:33:09,774
held captive by the Assad regime.

595
00:33:09,774 --> 00:33:09,864
Mm-hmm.

596
00:33:10,104 --> 00:33:14,334
When the Reagan administration couldn't do
it, he came back home to a hero's welcome.

597
00:33:14,604 --> 00:33:16,494
Ronald Reagan invited
him to the White House.

598
00:33:17,069 --> 00:33:20,069
And that's how he started
the 1984 campaign.

599
00:33:20,069 --> 00:33:23,969
It was the kind of press that any camp
candidate would've only dreamed of.

600
00:33:23,969 --> 00:33:24,089
What a

601
00:33:24,089 --> 00:33:24,539
high,

602
00:33:24,659 --> 00:33:29,279
what an a, a massive high it
has had not been seen before,

603
00:33:29,279 --> 00:33:30,429
and it has not been seen since.

604
00:33:30,429 --> 00:33:30,779
Seen again.

605
00:33:31,049 --> 00:33:31,769
Mm-hmm.

606
00:33:32,099 --> 00:33:34,229
That, that a candidate would
do something like that.

607
00:33:34,619 --> 00:33:38,969
And then just a few weeks after
that high, the Hymietown controversy

608
00:33:38,969 --> 00:33:43,529
explodes, and he was never able.

609
00:33:43,809 --> 00:33:44,919
To get past it.

610
00:33:44,979 --> 00:33:45,069
Mm-hmm.

611
00:33:45,549 --> 00:33:51,009
But what I will say, Sasha, is that his
speech, he gave a speech at a, at a, um,

612
00:33:51,999 --> 00:33:58,329
at a synagogue in New Hampshire explaining
and apologizing for those comments.

613
00:33:58,359 --> 00:33:58,569
Yeah.

614
00:33:59,139 --> 00:34:02,409
And it was one of those
moments when having.

615
00:34:03,054 --> 00:34:06,684
You know, covered several campaigns
in this modern time, and I'm sure

616
00:34:06,684 --> 00:34:10,824
you remember when President Obama had
to give that big speech about race?

617
00:34:10,824 --> 00:34:10,914
Oh, yeah.

618
00:34:11,004 --> 00:34:11,094
Mm-hmm.

619
00:34:11,514 --> 00:34:16,404
Um, after, um, you know, Reverend
Wright was revealed to be his

620
00:34:16,404 --> 00:34:18,054
pastor and all of that controversy.

621
00:34:18,084 --> 00:34:18,174
Mm-hmm.

622
00:34:18,414 --> 00:34:20,844
And that speech was such a
pivotal moment for his campaign.

623
00:34:21,534 --> 00:34:25,104
This speech for Jesse Jackson at
the synagogue was a very similar

624
00:34:25,104 --> 00:34:29,094
moment, but because of the media
environment, I think it did not.

625
00:34:29,514 --> 00:34:30,624
Get that far.

626
00:34:30,654 --> 00:34:30,894
Yeah.

627
00:34:30,894 --> 00:34:32,994
A lot of Americans
didn't hear the apology.

628
00:34:32,994 --> 00:34:34,524
They didn't hear the contrition.

629
00:34:34,824 --> 00:34:40,254
They didn't hear him use this really
powerful, powerful analogy of Jacob

630
00:34:40,284 --> 00:34:42,294
wrestling with the angel in the Bible.

631
00:34:42,324 --> 00:34:42,414
Right.

632
00:34:42,654 --> 00:34:45,294
And how he had fallen short.

633
00:34:45,744 --> 00:34:46,164
And I think that.

634
00:34:47,244 --> 00:34:51,234
In part because of that, it,
it, it did not allow him really

635
00:34:51,234 --> 00:34:52,464
to move past that moment.

636
00:34:52,464 --> 00:34:52,704
Yeah.

637
00:34:52,854 --> 00:34:56,754
And as I hear you talk about that, Abby,
I, I think about that final chapter in

638
00:34:56,754 --> 00:34:58,614
your book, appropriately titled Legacy.

639
00:34:58,734 --> 00:34:59,034
Yeah.

640
00:34:59,184 --> 00:35:04,434
And, uh, it, that sounds like a
single moment, uh, of Jesse Jackson's

641
00:35:04,434 --> 00:35:09,954
life that Well, I will certainly
now always reflect on after hearing

642
00:35:09,954 --> 00:35:11,574
you sort of lay that out for us.

643
00:35:11,674 --> 00:35:14,644
I spent time with Reverend Jackson
and his family in writing the book,

644
00:35:14,644 --> 00:35:18,304
and I wanted it to really reflect
the people who actually were there.

645
00:35:18,364 --> 00:35:18,514
Mm-hmm.

646
00:35:18,904 --> 00:35:21,904
But it's a, it's a piece of
journalism and it, it tells a

647
00:35:21,904 --> 00:35:24,904
real story, not one that's overly.

648
00:35:25,179 --> 00:35:28,659
You know, saccharin or
papers over anything.

649
00:35:28,659 --> 00:35:28,749
Right.

650
00:35:29,169 --> 00:35:32,349
Uh, it it, and, but it's, it's
also focused on, I think, a part

651
00:35:32,349 --> 00:35:35,859
of his life that I think most
people don't know very much about.

652
00:35:35,859 --> 00:35:35,919
Yeah.

653
00:35:35,949 --> 00:35:39,249
They might remember those campaigns,
but they don't know, I think as much

654
00:35:39,249 --> 00:35:42,279
about them as I think we ought to know.

655
00:35:42,279 --> 00:35:42,459
Oh yeah.

656
00:35:42,459 --> 00:35:42,639
You

657
00:35:42,639 --> 00:35:43,299
go inside.

658
00:35:43,299 --> 00:35:43,839
Yeah, for sure.

659
00:35:43,839 --> 00:35:45,819
There are so many lessons for right now.

660
00:35:45,879 --> 00:35:46,059
Yeah.

661
00:35:46,059 --> 00:35:48,699
I mean, even, you know, I finished
writing the book earlier this year

662
00:35:48,699 --> 00:35:49,749
before a lot of this happened.

663
00:35:49,779 --> 00:35:50,079
Yeah.

664
00:35:50,289 --> 00:35:52,129
And, um, Zohran Mamdani.

665
00:35:52,209 --> 00:35:57,699
Running in New York right, is a perfect
example of a very Jacksonian candidate

666
00:35:57,699 --> 00:35:59,409
and a very Jacksonian campaign.

667
00:35:59,896 --> 00:36:04,996
Our foreign policy must be
characterized by mutual respect,

668
00:36:07,486 --> 00:36:08,896
not by gunboat diplomacy.

669
00:36:10,306 --> 00:36:13,246
Big stick diplomacy and threats.

670
00:36:14,236 --> 00:36:18,616
Our nation at its best feeds
the hungry our nation, at its

671
00:36:18,616 --> 00:36:22,336
worst, at its worst will mine.

672
00:36:22,336 --> 00:36:27,436
the harbors of Nicaragua at its worst
will try to overthrow that government.

673
00:36:27,931 --> 00:36:33,001
At its worst will cut aid to American
education and increase aid to El Salvador.

674
00:36:33,241 --> 00:36:37,231
At its worst, our nation will have
partnership with South Africa.

675
00:36:37,411 --> 00:36:38,971
That's a moral disgrace.

676
00:36:39,181 --> 00:36:40,651
It's a moral disgrace.

677
00:36:41,131 --> 00:36:42,631
It's a moral disgrace.

678
00:36:57,736 --> 00:37:02,926
People in Africa, we cannot just
focus on apartheid in Southern Africa.

679
00:37:03,586 --> 00:37:08,176
We must fight for trade with
Africa and not just aid to Africa.

680
00:37:08,806 --> 00:37:11,326
We cannot stand out the by
and say we will not relate.

681
00:37:11,836 --> 00:37:15,676
To Nicaragua, Lester, have
elections there and then embrace

682
00:37:15,676 --> 00:37:17,596
military regime in Africa.

683
00:37:17,776 --> 00:37:23,026
Overthrowing democratic governments
in Nigeria and Liberia and Ghana.

684
00:37:23,176 --> 00:37:26,776
We must fight for democracy
all around the world and play

685
00:37:26,776 --> 00:37:29,656
the game by one set of rules.

686
00:37:32,446 --> 00:37:33,076
Peace.

687
00:37:33,226 --> 00:37:38,266
In this world, our present form for
peace in the Middle East is inadequate.

688
00:37:38,386 --> 00:37:39,346
It will not work.

689
00:37:40,201 --> 00:37:41,971
There are 22 nations in the Middle East.

690
00:37:42,511 --> 00:37:46,891
Our nation must be able to talk
and act and influence all of them.

691
00:37:47,551 --> 00:37:51,391
We must build upon Camp David
and measure human rights by

692
00:37:51,391 --> 00:37:53,851
one yardstick in that region.

693
00:37:53,851 --> 00:37:57,031
We have too many interests
and too few friends.

694
00:37:58,021 --> 00:37:59,671
There's a way out jobs.

695
00:38:00,751 --> 00:38:05,491
Put America back to work, and
I was a child growing up in

696
00:38:05,491 --> 00:38:06,691
Greenville, South Carolina.

697
00:38:08,081 --> 00:38:14,236
The Reverend Sample he used to preach
ever so often a sermon relating to

698
00:38:14,236 --> 00:38:24,466
Jesus and he said, if I be lifted
up, I'll draw old man unto me.

699
00:38:26,176 --> 00:38:33,256
I didn't quite understand what he meant
as a child growing up, but I understand a

700
00:38:33,256 --> 00:38:36,601
little better now if you raise up truth.

701
00:38:38,161 --> 00:38:39,631
It's magnetic.

702
00:38:40,321 --> 00:38:42,361
It has a way of drawing people.

703
00:38:42,871 --> 00:38:46,501
With all this confusion and this
conviction that bright lights

704
00:38:46,501 --> 00:38:51,421
and parties and big fun, we must
raise up the simple proposition.

705
00:38:52,051 --> 00:38:57,871
If we lift up a program to feed
the hungry, they'll come running.

706
00:38:58,741 --> 00:39:03,301
If we lift up a program to
study war, no more our youth.

707
00:39:03,991 --> 00:39:05,161
Will come running.

708
00:39:05,881 --> 00:39:10,561
If we lift up a program to put America
back to work as an alternative to the

709
00:39:10,561 --> 00:39:16,471
welfare and de spare, they will come
working if we cut that military budget

710
00:39:16,531 --> 00:39:22,561
without cutting out the fence and use
that money to rebuild bridges and put

711
00:39:22,561 --> 00:39:27,836
steel workers back to work and use that
money and provide jobs for our cities.

712
00:39:28,561 --> 00:39:34,051
And use that money to build schools
and pay teachers and educate our

713
00:39:34,051 --> 00:39:36,181
children and build hospitals and.

714
00:39:36,691 --> 00:39:41,966
Trained doctor, then trained nurses, the
whole nation will come running to us.

715
00:40:07,426 --> 00:40:07,646
As,

716
00:40:11,746 --> 00:40:17,491
as I leave you now and we vote in
this convention and get ready to

717
00:40:17,491 --> 00:40:24,331
go back across this nation in a
couple of days in this campaign, I

718
00:40:24,331 --> 00:40:26,041
tried to be faithful to my promise.

719
00:40:27,211 --> 00:40:33,961
I lived in El Barrios, get those union
reservations and housing projects.

720
00:40:34,051 --> 00:40:38,071
Yes, I have a message for our youth.

721
00:40:39,751 --> 00:40:46,411
I challenge them to put hope in their
brains and not dope in their veins.

722
00:40:47,731 --> 00:40:49,501
I told them,

723
00:40:53,191 --> 00:40:59,341
but like Jesus, I too was born
in the slum, but just because

724
00:40:59,341 --> 00:41:00,211
you are born in the slum.

725
00:41:00,631 --> 00:41:04,861
It does not mean the slum is
born in you and you can rise

726
00:41:04,861 --> 00:41:06,841
above it if your mind is made up.

727
00:41:13,946 --> 00:41:17,941
I told them in every
slum there are two sides.

728
00:41:18,751 --> 00:41:22,921
When I see a broken window,
that's the Islamic side.

729
00:41:23,461 --> 00:41:25,471
Train some youth to become a glazer.

730
00:41:26,461 --> 00:41:27,751
That's the sunny side.

731
00:41:28,776 --> 00:41:29,066
When.

732
00:41:30,286 --> 00:41:33,676
I see a missing brick.

733
00:41:34,336 --> 00:41:35,686
That's the sluggish side.

734
00:41:36,556 --> 00:41:41,416
Let that child in the union and
become a brick mason and build.

735
00:41:42,586 --> 00:41:43,726
That's the Sunday side.

736
00:41:44,746 --> 00:41:51,286
When I see a missing door,
that's the slum side.

737
00:41:51,736 --> 00:41:55,096
Train some youth to become a carpenter.

738
00:41:56,296 --> 00:41:57,496
That's the Sunday side.

739
00:41:58,666 --> 00:41:59,536
When.

740
00:41:59,971 --> 00:42:05,821
I see the vulgar words and
hieroglyphics of destitution on the walls.

741
00:42:06,721 --> 00:42:08,491
That's the slum side.

742
00:42:09,061 --> 00:42:12,721
Train some youth to become
a painter and artist.

743
00:42:13,831 --> 00:42:15,511
That's the sunny side.

744
00:42:15,961 --> 00:42:20,791
We leave this place looking for
the sunny side because there's

745
00:42:20,791 --> 00:42:22,231
a brother's side somewhere.

746
00:42:23,221 --> 00:42:27,301
I'm more convinced than
ever that we can win.

747
00:42:27,931 --> 00:42:28,321
We'll fought.

748
00:42:29,911 --> 00:42:33,511
Up the rough side of the
mountain, we can win.

749
00:42:34,321 --> 00:42:38,821
I just want young America
to do me one favor.

750
00:42:39,721 --> 00:42:41,221
Just one favor.

751
00:42:42,391 --> 00:42:43,501
Exercise.

752
00:42:43,501 --> 00:42:45,241
The right to dream.

753
00:42:46,591 --> 00:42:49,291
You must face reality.

754
00:42:50,671 --> 00:42:54,211
That's which is, but then
dream of the reality.

755
00:42:54,211 --> 00:42:55,201
That ought to be.

756
00:42:55,771 --> 00:42:56,791
That must be.

757
00:42:57,916 --> 00:43:03,721
Live beyond the pain of reality
with the dream of a bright tomorrow.

758
00:43:04,411 --> 00:43:11,581
Use hope and imagination as
weapons of survival and progress.

759
00:43:12,271 --> 00:43:18,691
Use love to motivate you and and
obligate you to serve the human family.

760
00:43:19,201 --> 00:43:21,091
Young America Dream.

761
00:43:22,861 --> 00:43:24,781
Choose the human race.

762
00:43:25,771 --> 00:43:34,411
Over the nuclear race, bury the weapons
and don't burn the people dream.

763
00:43:35,671 --> 00:43:37,561
Dream of a new value system.

764
00:43:38,521 --> 00:43:44,641
Teach us who teach for life
and not just for a living.

765
00:43:44,641 --> 00:43:47,371
Teach because they can't help it.

766
00:43:48,301 --> 00:43:51,661
Dream of lawyers.

767
00:43:52,726 --> 00:43:57,886
More concerned about
justice than a judge dream

768
00:43:59,896 --> 00:44:01,066
of doctors.

769
00:44:01,756 --> 00:44:07,036
More concerned about public
health than personal wealth.

770
00:44:08,241 --> 00:44:08,591
Dream

771
00:44:14,926 --> 00:44:20,086
of preachers and priests who
will prophesy and not just.

772
00:44:21,256 --> 00:44:22,906
Preach and dream.

773
00:44:24,571 --> 00:44:25,671
Our time has come.

774
00:44:27,971 --> 00:44:30,646
Our time has come suffering.

775
00:44:30,646 --> 00:44:30,946
Breathe.

776
00:44:30,946 --> 00:44:31,546
Character.

777
00:44:32,956 --> 00:44:33,346
Character.

778
00:44:33,346 --> 00:44:33,676
Breathe.

779
00:44:33,676 --> 00:44:37,096
Faith, Indian faith will not disappoint.

780
00:44:38,176 --> 00:44:39,706
Our time has come.

781
00:44:39,706 --> 00:44:42,796
Our faith hopes and dreams will prevail.

782
00:44:43,756 --> 00:44:47,236
Our time has come Weeping.

783
00:44:47,236 --> 00:44:50,116
Has endured for a night, but now joy.

784
00:44:51,511 --> 00:44:55,921
Come in the morning, our time has come.

785
00:44:57,031 --> 00:44:59,521
No grave can hold our body down.

786
00:45:00,361 --> 00:45:01,711
Our time has come.

787
00:45:02,671 --> 00:45:04,411
No lie can live forever.

788
00:45:05,521 --> 00:45:06,901
Our time has come.

789
00:45:07,711 --> 00:45:12,361
We must leave racial battleground
and come the economic common ground

790
00:45:12,721 --> 00:45:14,791
and moral higher ground America.

791
00:45:15,271 --> 00:45:16,771
Our time has come.

792
00:45:17,581 --> 00:45:19,261
We've come from this grace.

793
00:45:19,966 --> 00:45:23,596
To amazing grace, our time has come.

794
00:45:24,466 --> 00:45:31,366
Gimme your tide, gimme your poor, your
huddle masses who learn to breathe free.

795
00:45:31,606 --> 00:45:37,036
And come November there will
be a change because our time.

796
00:45:38,131 --> 00:45:38,971
Has come.

797
00:45:39,236 --> 00:45:40,506
Thank you and God bless you.

798
00:45:46,157 --> 00:45:47,487
We've just heard clips starting with

799
00:45:47,497 --> 00:45:52,417
Here & Now Anytime remembering Jesse
Jackson as a lion for justice who built

800
00:45:52,417 --> 00:45:56,747
a rainbow coalition uniting Black,
white, brown, Asian, and indigenous

801
00:45:56,747 --> 00:45:59,327
people around shared moral values

802
00:46:00,107 --> 00:46:03,587
Appearing on Sesame Street, Jackson
reminded children that differences in

803
00:46:03,587 --> 00:46:08,117
appearance, language, and background never
make a person less deserving of dignity

804
00:46:08,787 --> 00:46:12,797
Takes™ by Jamelle Bouie drew a line from
Jackson's social democratic campaigns

805
00:46:12,857 --> 00:46:19,087
through Bernie Sanders in 2016 and Zohran
Mamdani in 2025, arguing that Jackson's

806
00:46:19,087 --> 00:46:22,897
coalition-building approach remains
a powerful political template today

807
00:46:23,547 --> 00:46:27,847
Roland S. Martin argued that Johnson's
refusal to honor Rev. Jackson is a

808
00:46:27,887 --> 00:46:31,657
deliberate slap in the face to Black
America, reflecting the increasingly

809
00:46:31,657 --> 00:46:33,867
extreme nature of today's Republican Party

810
00:46:34,537 --> 00:46:39,027
The Zero Hour pointed to Nancy Pelosi
reinstating pay-as-you-go rules in

811
00:46:39,027 --> 00:46:44,927
2019 as a prime example of how 1980s
political wounds still shape the

812
00:46:44,927 --> 00:46:47,047
Democratic establishment's behavior today

813
00:46:47,727 --> 00:46:51,537
In the Loop described how Chicago's
political machine, led by Mayor Daley,

814
00:46:51,717 --> 00:46:55,747
blocked Jackson's ambitions for over
20 years until Harold Washington's

815
00:46:55,747 --> 00:46:59,887
1983 election finally brought Black
political empowerment to the city

816
00:47:00,507 --> 00:47:04,877
And CBS News played Jackson’s 1984
DNC speech, where he declared that

817
00:47:04,877 --> 00:47:08,307
the time had come for Americans to
move from racial battlegrounds to

818
00:47:08,347 --> 00:47:10,767
economic and moral common ground

819
00:47:11,137 --> 00:47:14,447
And those were just the top takes, there's
lots more in the deeper dives sections,

820
00:47:14,647 --> 00:47:16,987
But first, a reminder that this
show is produced with the support

821
00:47:16,987 --> 00:47:20,577
of our members who get this show
ad-free as well as early and ad-free

822
00:47:20,577 --> 00:47:22,657
access to our other show, SOLVED!

823
00:47:22,677 --> 00:47:25,867
Including a members-only backstage
segment, all via podcast.

824
00:47:26,517 --> 00:47:27,577
We've also launched SOLVED!

825
00:47:27,597 --> 00:47:30,697
on the Best of the Left YouTube
channel but episodes are delayed there.

826
00:47:31,117 --> 00:47:34,627
The show features our team of producers
discussing a carefully curated selection

827
00:47:34,627 --> 00:47:36,627
of articles and ideas to then SOLVE!

828
00:47:36,627 --> 00:47:38,217
some of the biggest issues of our day.

829
00:47:38,617 --> 00:47:40,937
It's important to remind you that
each episode of Best of the Left

830
00:47:41,097 --> 00:47:45,287
takes about 25 hours of human
labor to produce and, SOLVED!

831
00:47:45,307 --> 00:47:46,217
isn't too far behind.

832
00:47:46,417 --> 00:47:49,607
So, if you get value out of the show
and want to support all of the work that

833
00:47:49,617 --> 00:47:51,667
goes into Best of the Left and SOLVED!

834
00:47:51,867 --> 00:47:56,027
- and get both delivered ad-free to the
new, members-only podcast feed that

835
00:47:56,027 --> 00:48:00,247
you'll receive, sign up to support
the show at bestoftheleft.com/support

836
00:48:00,477 --> 00:48:03,767
- there's a link in the show notes
- through our Patreon page, or from

837
00:48:03,767 --> 00:48:05,507
right inside the Apple Podcasts app.

838
00:48:05,817 --> 00:48:09,097
But, as always, if regular membership
isn't in the cards for you, shoot

839
00:48:09,097 --> 00:48:12,337
me an email requesting a financial
hardship membership because we don't

840
00:48:12,337 --> 00:48:15,187
let a lack of funds stand in the
way of hearing more information.

841
00:48:15,667 --> 00:48:18,637
If you have a question or would like your
comments included in the show you can

842
00:48:18,637 --> 00:48:22,177
record a voice message - re-recording
until you're happy with it - by

843
00:48:22,217 --> 00:48:23,827
tapping the link in the show notes,

844
00:48:24,177 --> 00:48:28,107
You can also message us on Signal
at the handle bestoftheleft.01,

845
00:48:28,447 --> 00:48:31,967
or you can simply email me
to jay@bestoftheleft.com

846
00:48:32,697 --> 00:48:36,047
As for today's topic, I want to build
on something we’re hearing about today.

847
00:48:36,287 --> 00:48:41,627
In 2008, Obama's entire delegate strategy
depended on a feature of Democratic

848
00:48:41,627 --> 00:48:45,607
primaries that most voters didn't
think about; proportional allocation.

849
00:48:45,857 --> 00:48:50,547
Meaning delegates get split based on vote
share instead of all going to the winner.

850
00:48:50,927 --> 00:48:53,457
Obama didn't need to win every big state.

851
00:48:53,467 --> 00:48:57,077
He just needed to stay close,
accumulate delegates everywhere,

852
00:48:57,287 --> 00:48:58,877
and let the math work over time.

853
00:48:59,287 --> 00:49:02,287
Under the old rules, Clinton's
big-state victories would

854
00:49:02,287 --> 00:49:03,867
have ended the race outright.

855
00:49:04,157 --> 00:49:05,957
But those rules no longer existed.

856
00:49:06,217 --> 00:49:10,147
They had been dismantled in large part
because of Jesse Jackson, building on

857
00:49:10,147 --> 00:49:14,797
reforms that had been underway since
the early 1970s but that Jackson, more

858
00:49:14,797 --> 00:49:16,677
than anyone, pushed to completion.

859
00:49:17,227 --> 00:49:19,627
That's the story everyone tells
about Jackson's legacy right now.

860
00:49:19,737 --> 00:49:21,887
And they should, because it's remarkable.

861
00:49:21,977 --> 00:49:25,297
But I think there's a deeper lesson
in it that's worth pulling out.

862
00:49:26,167 --> 00:49:30,417
"Rebuild the Rainbow Coalition"
has become a kind of shorthand in

863
00:49:30,417 --> 00:49:31,957
the weeks since Jackson's death.

864
00:49:32,027 --> 00:49:34,957
And it's shorthand for
something real and correct.

865
00:49:35,317 --> 00:49:39,007
Bishop Barber has talked about Jackson's
agenda as exactly what we need to

866
00:49:39,197 --> 00:49:40,737
push back against authoritarianism.

867
00:49:40,987 --> 00:49:44,897
Organizers in Chicago point to
Brandon Johnson's mayoral win

868
00:49:44,897 --> 00:49:46,987
as proof the model still works.

869
00:49:47,297 --> 00:49:51,307
Hy Thurman, one of the original Rainbow
Coalition organizers from Fred Hampton's

870
00:49:51,327 --> 00:49:55,157
era, is talking about building a new
version with a council of elders.

871
00:49:55,677 --> 00:49:58,817
The leaders saying this know
better than I do what the full

872
00:49:58,817 --> 00:50:00,317
scope of the work looks like.

873
00:50:00,607 --> 00:50:02,857
But shorthand can flatten.

874
00:50:02,987 --> 00:50:05,267
It can make something
sound simpler than it is.

875
00:50:05,327 --> 00:50:09,347
And what I want to do today is
unpack what's inside that phrase.

876
00:50:09,407 --> 00:50:12,277
Not because the people using it
are wrong, but because I think

877
00:50:12,277 --> 00:50:16,577
the full version of what they're
calling for is more demanding,

878
00:50:16,737 --> 00:50:21,147
more interesting, and honestly more
inspiring than the shorthand suggests.

879
00:50:21,857 --> 00:50:26,437
Because the Rainbow Coalition was
built on specific material conditions

880
00:50:26,707 --> 00:50:28,877
that no longer exist in the same form.

881
00:50:29,307 --> 00:50:32,717
Jackson's coalition ran on
the institutional Black church

882
00:50:32,747 --> 00:50:34,297
as its logistical backbone.

883
00:50:34,547 --> 00:50:39,927
Not just moral authority, but phone
trees, meeting spaces, transportation

884
00:50:39,937 --> 00:50:44,037
networks, trusted leaders who could
turn out entire congregations.

885
00:50:44,917 --> 00:50:47,937
As one Baptist leader put it
in 1984, the church was "the

886
00:50:47,947 --> 00:50:49,947
springboard" of Jackson's campaign.

887
00:50:50,577 --> 00:50:54,957
That institution still has real power,
but Black church membership has dropped

888
00:50:55,097 --> 00:50:58,867
nearly 20 percentage points among
Black adults in the last two decades.

889
00:50:59,257 --> 00:51:02,197
It can't carry that weight
alone the way it once did.

890
00:51:02,807 --> 00:51:06,917
The coalition was built on industrial
labor markets and strong unions that

891
00:51:06,917 --> 00:51:10,967
gave working-class people of different
races a shared material identity.

892
00:51:11,387 --> 00:51:14,197
Over a third of Black men in
the private sector belonged to

893
00:51:14,197 --> 00:51:16,277
unions through the early 1980s.

894
00:51:16,687 --> 00:51:20,757
The gig economy has since fragmented
that identity into isolated,

895
00:51:20,857 --> 00:51:23,577
precarious, individual experiences.

896
00:51:23,967 --> 00:51:29,007
Your Uber driver and your Amazon warehouse
worker are both struggling, but they

897
00:51:29,007 --> 00:51:33,717
don't share a break room, a union hall,
or a common employer to organize against.

898
00:51:34,507 --> 00:51:38,877
And the economic precarity that should
unite people across racial lines has

899
00:51:38,877 --> 00:51:43,627
been made harder to organize around
by decades of credit expansion and

900
00:51:43,627 --> 00:51:45,437
the erosion of stable employment.

901
00:51:45,837 --> 00:51:51,477
When people experience economic hardship
individually, as personal debt, as a gig

902
00:51:51,487 --> 00:51:56,377
that doesn't quite pay enough, rather than
collectively as a shared condition with a

903
00:51:56,387 --> 00:52:02,787
visible shared cause, the raw material for
class-based coalition is harder to access.

904
00:52:03,257 --> 00:52:06,167
This isn't about willpower
or political courage.

905
00:52:06,417 --> 00:52:10,467
The material conditions that made
that coalition possible have changed.

906
00:52:10,667 --> 00:52:14,147
So if the model can't simply be
copied and pasted, what's the

907
00:52:14,147 --> 00:52:16,357
real lesson of Jackson's legacy?

908
00:52:17,217 --> 00:52:21,127
After 1984, Jackson had won more
than three million votes but

909
00:52:21,127 --> 00:52:24,017
received a disproportionately
small share of delegates.

910
00:52:24,367 --> 00:52:29,267
Between '84 and '88, Jackson's team
successfully pushed the party to

911
00:52:29,267 --> 00:52:33,367
adopt what became known as "pure
proportional representation,"

912
00:52:33,577 --> 00:52:36,917
eliminating the distortions that
had made that kind of gap possible.

913
00:52:37,297 --> 00:52:40,827
That rule change is what
made Obama's path exist.

914
00:52:41,217 --> 00:52:44,697
His team recognized early that under
proportional rules, you didn't need to

915
00:52:44,697 --> 00:52:47,547
win big, you needed to compete everywhere.

916
00:52:47,837 --> 00:52:52,337
That everywhere-at-once strategy is what
kept Obama in the race when Clinton's

917
00:52:52,357 --> 00:52:56,137
big-state wins would have buried
any challenger under the old system.

918
00:52:56,667 --> 00:53:00,717
Jackson's most consequential
achievement wasn't a speech.

919
00:53:00,857 --> 00:53:01,867
It wasn't a rally.

920
00:53:02,007 --> 00:53:04,127
It wasn't even the coalition itself.

921
00:53:04,327 --> 00:53:06,677
It was a procedural rule change.

922
00:53:07,047 --> 00:53:11,357
Unsexy, technical, the kind of thing
that makes your eyes glaze over.

923
00:53:11,647 --> 00:53:15,097
And it literally altered the
trajectory of American history.

924
00:53:15,787 --> 00:53:19,407
There's a pattern here, and
it works on two levels; inside

925
00:53:19,407 --> 00:53:21,007
the system and outside it.

926
00:53:21,117 --> 00:53:25,567
On both levels, it's the unglamorous
work that actually builds power.

927
00:53:26,107 --> 00:53:28,927
Inside, it's changing
the rules of the game.

928
00:53:29,247 --> 00:53:31,537
Jackson changed delegate allocation.

929
00:53:31,857 --> 00:53:33,067
That's the inside game.

930
00:53:33,617 --> 00:53:34,627
What's the equivalent today?

931
00:53:35,077 --> 00:53:38,547
Ballot initiatives to end
gerrymandering, which citizens can run

932
00:53:38,567 --> 00:53:42,097
even in states where the legislature
will never do it voluntarily.

933
00:53:42,557 --> 00:53:46,287
Pro-democracy voting reforms
like automatic voter registration

934
00:53:46,287 --> 00:53:47,507
and ranked choice voting.

935
00:53:47,997 --> 00:53:51,907
Publicly funded campaigns that break
the stranglehold of big donors over

936
00:53:51,977 --> 00:53:53,527
who even gets to run for office.

937
00:53:53,997 --> 00:53:58,387
These things are happening right now,
in real places, producing real results.

938
00:53:58,727 --> 00:54:02,667
And almost nobody talks about them
outside of wonky political podcasts.

939
00:54:03,107 --> 00:54:05,697
Jackson didn't get famous for
changing delegate rules either.

940
00:54:05,817 --> 00:54:08,777
He got famous for the speeches
but the rule change is what

941
00:54:08,797 --> 00:54:10,307
ended up mattering most.

942
00:54:11,107 --> 00:54:15,557
Outside, it's building coalitions
for the world we actually live in.

943
00:54:15,957 --> 00:54:19,477
If the old infrastructure can't carry
the weight alone the way it once did,

944
00:54:19,677 --> 00:54:22,137
the work isn't to mourn what's gone.

945
00:54:22,157 --> 00:54:27,147
It's to figure out what new connective
tissue looks like and build it.

946
00:54:27,687 --> 00:54:28,877
Some of this is already happening.

947
00:54:29,157 --> 00:54:32,407
Tenant organizing is growing in cities
and suburbs where housing costs have

948
00:54:32,407 --> 00:54:35,037
become the great cross-racial equalizer.

949
00:54:35,267 --> 00:54:37,137
And not just in the usual places.

950
00:54:37,257 --> 00:54:41,377
Organizers are building tenant power
in the Midwest and the South, in

951
00:54:41,397 --> 00:54:45,267
scattered single-family rentals, not
just big urban apartment buildings.

952
00:54:45,767 --> 00:54:49,997
The Debt Collective is organizing people
around student, medical, and credit

953
00:54:49,997 --> 00:54:55,747
card debt as a shared identity, turning
private shame into collective leverage.

954
00:54:56,247 --> 00:54:58,757
That's a form of organizing
that literally didn't exist

955
00:54:58,757 --> 00:55:02,467
in Jackson's era, built around
conditions that didn't exist either.

956
00:55:03,267 --> 00:55:05,447
None of these look like
the Rainbow Coalition.

957
00:55:05,677 --> 00:55:08,467
They're smaller, messier, more fragmented.

958
00:55:08,777 --> 00:55:11,137
They don't have a charismatic
preacher at the center.

959
00:55:11,717 --> 00:55:12,407
That's the point.

960
00:55:12,837 --> 00:55:16,767
The conditions that produced that
model have changed, and the new

961
00:55:16,947 --> 00:55:19,947
coalitions have to be built for
the world we actually live in.

962
00:55:20,297 --> 00:55:21,687
Not the one that existed in 1984.

963
00:55:22,797 --> 00:55:26,607
Inside and outside, the work that
actually builds power is the work

964
00:55:26,657 --> 00:55:28,667
nobody writes eulogies about.

965
00:55:29,007 --> 00:55:31,317
The rule changes and the tenant meetings.

966
00:55:31,537 --> 00:55:35,997
The ballot initiatives and the
slow, unglamorous trust-building

967
00:55:36,027 --> 00:55:37,327
across lines of difference.

968
00:55:38,037 --> 00:55:41,237
For anyone looking to honor
Jackson's legacy, honor the

969
00:55:41,247 --> 00:55:43,677
vision, but learn from the method.

970
00:55:44,047 --> 00:55:49,027
The method was never "give a great
speech and hope." The method was;

971
00:55:49,317 --> 00:55:55,807
assess the terrain, find the structural
lever, build the coalition that

972
00:55:55,807 --> 00:55:59,087
current conditions allow, and pull.

973
00:55:59,797 --> 00:56:01,157
The terrain has changed.

974
00:56:01,437 --> 00:56:03,767
Some of the old levers are rusted shut.

975
00:56:04,217 --> 00:56:05,357
Others haven't been built yet.

976
00:56:05,867 --> 00:56:07,367
That's not a reason for despair.

977
00:56:07,597 --> 00:56:08,767
It's a job description.

978
00:56:09,597 --> 00:56:12,367
Jackson, standing in Grant
Park on election night 2008,

979
00:56:12,587 --> 00:56:14,177
tears streaming down his face.

980
00:56:14,397 --> 00:56:18,047
Watching the result of work
he'd done twenty years earlier.

981
00:56:18,547 --> 00:56:22,297
A rule change most people had never
heard of, making possible a moment

982
00:56:22,307 --> 00:56:24,087
most people thought they'd never see.

983
00:56:24,737 --> 00:56:29,127
The question for everyone listening isn't
how do we get another Jesse Jackson.

984
00:56:29,347 --> 00:56:34,877
It’s; what are you building right now,
in your community, in your state, in

985
00:56:34,987 --> 00:56:39,707
whatever institution you have access
to, that someone you've never met might

986
00:56:39,717 --> 00:56:42,447
benefit from twenty years from now?

987
00:56:43,147 --> 00:56:46,047
You probably won't get
credit but that's the job.

988
00:56:47,547 --> 00:56:50,137
Note that we've begun putting
my commentaries on YouTube so if

989
00:56:50,137 --> 00:56:52,787
you find them insightful, check
out our channel and share them!

990
00:56:53,147 --> 00:56:54,287
Link in the show notes.

991
00:56:54,862 --> 00:56:57,742
And now we'll continue to dive
deeper on four topics today.

992
00:56:57,952 --> 00:57:01,702
Next up section A. Presidential
runs followed by section B,

993
00:57:01,762 --> 00:57:07,342
rainbow Coalition, section C, the
man and section D, his legacy.

994
00:57:07,742 --> 00:57:12,962
for our children, young
America, hold your head high.

995
00:57:12,962 --> 00:57:15,207
Now we can win.

996
00:57:17,282 --> 00:57:22,382
We must not lose you to drugs and
violence, premature pregnancy, suicide,

997
00:57:22,382 --> 00:57:25,232
cynicism, pessimism and despair.

998
00:57:26,222 --> 00:57:31,532
We can win wherever you are tonight,
I'll challenge you to hope and the dream.

999
00:57:32,792 --> 00:57:34,802
Don't submerge your dreams.

1000
00:57:36,152 --> 00:57:41,192
Exercise above all else, even on drugs.

1001
00:57:41,222 --> 00:57:43,547
Dream of the day you're drug free.

1002
00:57:45,167 --> 00:57:49,877
Even in the gutter dream of the
day that you'll be up on your feet

1003
00:57:49,877 --> 00:57:53,297
again, you must never stop dreaming.

1004
00:57:54,707 --> 00:57:58,937
Face reality, yes, but don't stop
with the way things are, dream

1005
00:57:58,937 --> 00:58:00,527
of things as they ought to be.

1006
00:58:00,587 --> 00:58:07,967
Dream face pain, but love, hope, faith and
dreams will help you rise above the pain.

1007
00:58:08,957 --> 00:58:10,367
Use hope and imagination.

1008
00:58:11,312 --> 00:58:14,282
As weapons of survival and
progress, but you keep on dreaming.

1009
00:58:14,282 --> 00:58:16,622
Young America dream of peace.

1010
00:58:17,582 --> 00:58:20,702
Peace is rational and reasonable.

1011
00:58:21,542 --> 00:58:28,562
War is iration in this age and
unwinnable dream of teachers who

1012
00:58:28,562 --> 00:58:30,182
teach for life and not for living.

1013
00:58:30,242 --> 00:58:35,912
Dream of doctors who are concerned more
about public health than private wealth.

1014
00:58:35,912 --> 00:58:40,232
Dream of lawyers more concerned
about justice than a judgeship.

1015
00:58:40,847 --> 00:58:41,687
Dream of preachers.

1016
00:58:41,687 --> 00:58:44,387
Were concerned more about
prophecy than profiteering.

1017
00:58:44,867 --> 00:58:50,177
Dream on the high road with
sound values, and then America

1018
00:58:52,247 --> 00:58:56,507
as we go forth to September,
October, November, and then beyond.

1019
00:58:58,247 --> 00:59:01,757
America must never surrender
to a high moral challenge.

1020
00:59:03,557 --> 00:59:04,937
Do not surrender to drugs.

1021
00:59:06,017 --> 00:59:08,267
The best drug policy is a no first use.

1022
00:59:09,662 --> 00:59:11,972
Don't surrender with needles and citizens.

1023
00:59:14,552 --> 00:59:15,902
Let's have no fresh use.

1024
00:59:15,902 --> 00:59:20,222
On the one hand, our clinics
on the other never surrender.

1025
00:59:20,222 --> 00:59:21,692
Young America, go forward.

1026
00:59:22,832 --> 00:59:25,472
America must never
surrender to malnutrition.

1027
00:59:26,222 --> 00:59:28,982
We can feed the hungry
and clothe the naked.

1028
00:59:29,942 --> 00:59:31,352
We must never surrender.

1029
00:59:31,712 --> 00:59:33,392
We must go forward.

1030
00:59:34,352 --> 00:59:36,302
We must never surrender to illiteracy.

1031
00:59:37,112 --> 00:59:41,342
Invest in our children never
surrender and go forward.

1032
00:59:42,242 --> 00:59:44,702
We must never surrender to inequality.

1033
00:59:45,572 --> 00:59:49,802
Women cannot compromise
ERA or comparable worth.

1034
00:59:50,162 --> 00:59:53,942
Women are making 60 cents on
a dollar what a man makes.

1035
00:59:54,302 --> 00:59:56,492
Women cannot buy meat cheaper.

1036
00:59:56,732 --> 00:59:58,652
Women cannot buy bread cheaper.

1037
00:59:58,982 --> 01:00:00,752
Women cannot buy milk cheaper.

1038
01:00:01,142 --> 01:00:03,887
Women deserve to get paid
for the work that you do.

1039
01:00:04,557 --> 01:00:05,567
It's right and.

1040
01:00:14,402 --> 01:00:15,062
Don't surrender.

1041
01:00:15,062 --> 01:00:15,662
My friends,

1042
01:00:19,232 --> 01:00:23,402
those who have AIDS tonight,
you deserve our compassion.

1043
01:00:23,582 --> 01:00:26,822
Even with aids, you must not
surrender in your will chance.

1044
01:00:26,972 --> 01:00:29,582
I see you sitting here
tonight in those wheelchairs.

1045
01:00:30,572 --> 01:00:31,682
I've stayed with you.

1046
01:00:31,682 --> 01:00:34,472
I've reached out to you across
our nation, and don't you give up.

1047
01:00:35,447 --> 01:00:36,077
I know it's tough.

1048
01:00:36,077 --> 01:00:38,837
Sometimes people look down on you.

1049
01:00:39,947 --> 01:00:44,057
It took you a little more effort to get
here tonight, and no one should look down

1050
01:00:44,057 --> 01:00:47,357
on you, but sometimes mean people do.

1051
01:00:48,407 --> 01:00:51,317
The only justification we have for
looking down on someone is that we

1052
01:00:51,317 --> 01:00:53,777
are gonna stop and pick them up.

1053
01:00:54,257 --> 01:00:56,777
But even in your wheelchairs,
don't you give up.

1054
01:00:57,527 --> 01:01:01,847
We cannot forget 50 years ago when
our backs were against the wall,

1055
01:01:02,057 --> 01:01:03,647
Roosevelt was in a wheelchair.

1056
01:01:04,082 --> 01:01:06,902
I would rather have Roosevelt
in a wheelchair than

1057
01:01:06,902 --> 01:01:08,492
Reagan and Bush on a horse.

1058
01:01:10,682 --> 01:01:13,052
Don't you surrender and don't you give up.

1059
01:01:16,532 --> 01:01:19,112
Don't surrender and don't give up.

1060
01:01:28,337 --> 01:01:31,517
Why can I challenge you
this way, Jesse Jackson.

1061
01:01:33,032 --> 01:01:34,622
You don't understand my situation.

1062
01:01:36,002 --> 01:01:37,172
You'll be on television.

1063
01:01:39,632 --> 01:01:40,622
You don't understand.

1064
01:01:42,782 --> 01:01:44,312
I see what you, with the big people.

1065
01:01:45,752 --> 01:01:46,112
You don't.

1066
01:01:46,142 --> 01:01:47,642
You don't understand my situation.

1067
01:01:49,952 --> 01:01:50,672
I understand

1068
01:01:53,162 --> 01:01:54,722
you see me on tv, but
you don't know the me.

1069
01:01:54,722 --> 01:01:55,562
That makes me me.

1070
01:01:57,842 --> 01:01:59,402
They wonder why does Jesse run?

1071
01:02:01,442 --> 01:02:03,392
Because they see me running
for the White House.

1072
01:02:04,712 --> 01:02:06,422
They don't see the house I'm running from.

1073
01:02:07,532 --> 01:02:08,432
I have a story.

1074
01:02:15,902 --> 01:02:17,432
I wasn't always on television.

1075
01:02:20,342 --> 01:02:22,472
Writers were not always outside my door.

1076
01:02:23,732 --> 01:02:28,232
And I was born late one afternoon,
October 8th in Greenville, South Carolina.

1077
01:02:28,922 --> 01:02:31,232
No writers asked my mother her name.

1078
01:02:32,732 --> 01:02:35,252
Nobody chose to write down our address.

1079
01:02:36,212 --> 01:02:40,262
A mama was not supposed to make it
and I was not supposed to make it.

1080
01:02:40,982 --> 01:02:47,582
You see, I was born a teenage mother
who was born a teenage mother.

1081
01:02:47,582 --> 01:02:50,282
I, I understand.

1082
01:02:52,982 --> 01:02:56,532
I know abandonment and
people being mean to you.

1083
01:02:58,252 --> 01:03:02,567
And saying You're nothing and
nobody and can never be anything.

1084
01:03:04,097 --> 01:03:04,937
I understand.

1085
01:03:06,797 --> 01:03:09,977
Jesse Jackson is my third name.

1086
01:03:11,657 --> 01:03:14,957
I'm adopted when I had no name.

1087
01:03:14,957 --> 01:03:16,397
My grandmother gave me her name.

1088
01:03:17,597 --> 01:03:22,607
My name was Jesse Burns, so I was
12 so I wouldn't have a blank space.

1089
01:03:22,607 --> 01:03:25,907
She gave me a name to hold me over.

1090
01:03:27,827 --> 01:03:30,842
I understand when nobody knows your name.

1091
01:03:32,222 --> 01:03:33,812
I understand when you have no name.

1092
01:03:35,402 --> 01:03:36,272
I understand.

1093
01:03:38,282 --> 01:03:40,352
I wasn't born in the hospital.

1094
01:03:42,182 --> 01:03:43,502
Mama didn't have insurance.

1095
01:03:45,662 --> 01:03:49,472
I was born in the bed at house.

1096
01:03:50,072 --> 01:03:51,212
I really do understand.

1097
01:03:52,562 --> 01:03:53,432
Born in a three room house.

1098
01:03:56,207 --> 01:03:57,347
Bathroom in the backyard.

1099
01:03:59,267 --> 01:04:00,857
Slop job out the bed.

1100
01:04:02,117 --> 01:04:02,327
No.

1101
01:04:02,327 --> 01:04:03,527
Hot and cold running water.

1102
01:04:05,357 --> 01:04:06,197
I understand

1103
01:04:08,237 --> 01:04:10,247
wallpaper used for decoration.

1104
01:04:10,487 --> 01:04:11,177
No.

1105
01:04:11,777 --> 01:04:12,647
For a windbreaker.

1106
01:04:14,747 --> 01:04:15,557
I understand.

1107
01:04:17,417 --> 01:04:18,827
I'm a working person's person.

1108
01:04:19,847 --> 01:04:20,687
That's why I understand you.

1109
01:04:20,687 --> 01:04:21,677
Whether you're black or white.

1110
01:04:21,677 --> 01:04:22,222
I understand Work.

1111
01:04:23,702 --> 01:04:25,592
I was not born with a
silver spoon in my mouth.

1112
01:04:26,882 --> 01:04:29,282
I had a shovel programmed for my hand.

1113
01:04:30,482 --> 01:04:36,782
My mother, a working woman so many
days, she went to work early Roger and

1114
01:04:36,782 --> 01:04:42,782
her stockings, she knew better, but she
wrote Rons and her stockings so that

1115
01:04:42,842 --> 01:04:47,342
my brother and I could have matching
socks and not be laughed at at school.

1116
01:04:49,502 --> 01:04:49,877
I understand.

1117
01:04:52,052 --> 01:04:56,642
At three o'clock on Thanksgiving day,
we couldn't eat Turkey because mama

1118
01:04:56,642 --> 01:04:58,112
was preparing somebody else's Turkey.

1119
01:04:58,112 --> 01:05:02,642
At three o'clock, we had to play
football to entertain ourselves, and

1120
01:05:02,642 --> 01:05:05,492
then around six o'clock she would get
off the Alta Vista bus and we would

1121
01:05:05,492 --> 01:05:10,442
bring up the leftovers and eat our Turkey
leftovers, the caucus, the cranberries,

1122
01:05:10,832 --> 01:05:12,332
around eight o'clock at night.

1123
01:05:13,262 --> 01:05:18,517
I really do understand every one of
these funny labels they put on you.

1124
01:05:19,517 --> 01:05:22,667
Those of you who are watching this
broadcast of night in the projects

1125
01:05:23,477 --> 01:05:25,247
on the corners, I understand.

1126
01:05:26,087 --> 01:05:29,117
Call your outcast low down.

1127
01:05:29,117 --> 01:05:30,347
You can't make it.

1128
01:05:30,647 --> 01:05:31,277
You're nothing.

1129
01:05:31,277 --> 01:05:32,267
You're from nobody.

1130
01:05:33,077 --> 01:05:35,027
Subclass under class.

1131
01:05:35,597 --> 01:05:39,767
When you see Jesse Jackson,
when my name goes in nomination,

1132
01:05:40,277 --> 01:05:42,077
your name goes in nomination.

1133
01:05:42,347 --> 01:05:47,897
I was born in the slum, but the slum was
not born in me, and it wasn't born in you.

1134
01:05:48,617 --> 01:05:51,977
And you can make it
wherever you are tonight.

1135
01:05:53,087 --> 01:05:58,727
You can make it hold your head
high, stick your chest out.

1136
01:05:59,957 --> 01:06:06,212
You can make it, it gets dark sometimes,
but the morning comes, don't you?

1137
01:06:06,212 --> 01:06:08,477
Surrender, suffering.

1138
01:06:08,477 --> 01:06:08,777
Priest.

1139
01:06:08,777 --> 01:06:14,147
Character, character, priest, faith in
the end, faith will not the support.

1140
01:06:14,507 --> 01:06:15,782
You must not surrender.

1141
01:06:16,442 --> 01:06:20,462
You may or may not get there, but
just know that you are qualified

1142
01:06:20,582 --> 01:06:23,372
and you hold on and hold out.

1143
01:06:24,362 --> 01:06:25,922
We must never surrender.

1144
01:06:26,492 --> 01:06:29,102
America will get better and better.

1145
01:06:29,852 --> 01:06:30,782
Keep hope alive.

1146
01:06:31,093 --> 01:06:38,383
I voted for Jesse in 1984, and I
also ran a program in 1984 called

1147
01:06:38,473 --> 01:06:41,203
Churches United for Voter Registration.

1148
01:06:41,203 --> 01:06:41,983
That was.

1149
01:06:42,548 --> 01:06:46,178
Included about 10 churches
between Brooklyn and Manhattan.

1150
01:06:46,178 --> 01:06:48,128
I can name the churches if you have time.

1151
01:06:48,908 --> 01:06:56,828
And then in 1988, I had a 4-year-old
daughter whom I took into the voting

1152
01:06:56,828 --> 01:07:00,158
booth with me so that she could
pull the lever for Jesse Jackson.

1153
01:07:01,633 --> 01:07:03,698
What was the importance of him to you?

1154
01:07:05,468 --> 01:07:11,468
The importance was that as an African
American, as someone who was at the.

1155
01:07:11,628 --> 01:07:16,518
I, at the end of the civil rights
movement was to continue the struggle

1156
01:07:16,518 --> 01:07:23,748
that my, an, my parents and ancestors
had begun to gain equal rights in

1157
01:07:23,748 --> 01:07:25,728
this country and the right to vote.

1158
01:07:25,878 --> 01:07:30,228
I had a mother who had to
pay poll taxes in Montgomery.

1159
01:07:30,888 --> 01:07:31,038
Um.

1160
01:07:31,978 --> 01:07:34,108
In order to register to vote.

1161
01:07:34,108 --> 01:07:38,578
So voting has always been high
on our priority list as a family.

1162
01:07:39,178 --> 01:07:40,018
Thank you, Ora.

1163
01:07:40,018 --> 01:07:41,188
Thank you very much.

1164
01:07:41,248 --> 01:07:42,628
More oral history.

1165
01:07:42,658 --> 01:07:44,788
Rachel in Middlebury, Connecticut.

1166
01:07:45,148 --> 01:07:46,558
You're on WNYC.

1167
01:07:46,558 --> 01:07:47,188
Hi Rachel.

1168
01:07:48,358 --> 01:07:49,438
Thanks for having me.

1169
01:07:49,438 --> 01:07:53,908
I just want to share a memory that I had
when I was 21 and I was living in San

1170
01:07:53,908 --> 01:08:01,258
Francisco with in a house with a bunch
of my friends and we were so excited to.

1171
01:08:01,828 --> 01:08:03,118
Support Jesse Jackson.

1172
01:08:03,118 --> 01:08:06,988
We went to downtown San Francisco
and heard him speak and we were

1173
01:08:06,988 --> 01:08:10,768
just crying with joy and hope.

1174
01:08:12,748 --> 01:08:13,528
Hope for what?

1175
01:08:13,738 --> 01:08:13,948
Can you

1176
01:08:13,948 --> 01:08:17,398
put it into words in the
context of the year 84?

1177
01:08:18,748 --> 01:08:25,858
It just was a time, it felt like a
time of great change and great looking

1178
01:08:25,858 --> 01:08:30,778
forward to things being better when
we lived in Oakland and it just was.

1179
01:08:33,013 --> 01:08:39,433
Rough for a lot of people and we
wanted there to be services and,

1180
01:08:41,503 --> 01:08:42,173
um, mm-hmm.

1181
01:08:43,873 --> 01:08:44,143
Progress.

1182
01:08:44,143 --> 01:08:45,613
I lost my train of thought and, and hope.

1183
01:08:45,618 --> 01:08:49,993
We just, we wanted, we wanted there to
be, you know, people to not be homeless.

1184
01:08:49,993 --> 01:08:52,153
We wanted people to have
equal opportunities.

1185
01:08:52,183 --> 01:08:55,423
We wanted people to have, be empowered.

1186
01:08:55,423 --> 01:08:58,453
We wanted people to have
jobs, we wanted to stop wars.

1187
01:08:58,453 --> 01:08:59,683
We wanted, you know, it's just.

1188
01:09:00,028 --> 01:09:02,278
It just felt like it could happen.

1189
01:09:02,968 --> 01:09:04,588
Rachel, thank you so much.

1190
01:09:04,618 --> 01:09:09,358
And I think that kind of sets up this
other clip we have of Reverend Jackson

1191
01:09:09,358 --> 01:09:15,448
from his 1984 convention speech saying
who he believed he was representing.

1192
01:09:16,678 --> 01:09:22,438
My constituency is the desperate,
the damned, the disinherited,

1193
01:09:23,068 --> 01:09:25,708
the disrespected and the despise.

1194
01:09:26,428 --> 01:09:29,398
They are restless and seek relief.

1195
01:09:30,208 --> 01:09:32,098
They have voted in record numbers.

1196
01:09:32,788 --> 01:09:34,318
They have invested the faith.

1197
01:09:34,763 --> 01:09:37,823
Hope and trust that they have in us.

1198
01:09:38,663 --> 01:09:43,283
The Democratic Party must send
them a signal that we care.

1199
01:09:44,003 --> 01:09:47,513
I pledge my best not to let them down.

1200
01:09:48,713 --> 01:09:53,513
Reverend Jesse Jackson in his
1984 Democratic Convention Speech.

1201
01:09:53,873 --> 01:09:54,113
Dr.

1202
01:09:54,113 --> 01:09:57,323
Hussein, we also have to
acknowledge when we talk about 84.

1203
01:09:57,748 --> 01:10:01,078
The controversy, which was very
much an issue here in New York

1204
01:10:01,108 --> 01:10:05,008
when Jackson got caught referring
to New York as Hymietown, because

1205
01:10:05,008 --> 01:10:06,688
there were so many Jews in the city.

1206
01:10:07,108 --> 01:10:11,578
He apologized for what he called the
thoughtless remark that was wrong, but

1207
01:10:11,578 --> 01:10:13,708
wasn't intended to be mean or bigoted.

1208
01:10:13,708 --> 01:10:18,118
He said Some Jewish leaders and voted
voters accepted the apology in the

1209
01:10:18,118 --> 01:10:20,248
context of a long working relationship.

1210
01:10:20,248 --> 01:10:21,208
Some did not.

1211
01:10:21,568 --> 01:10:24,148
It haunted him through
the 88 campaign too.

1212
01:10:24,508 --> 01:10:25,433
My question to you is.

1213
01:10:26,083 --> 01:10:29,863
Um, how do you think that
affected his relationship with

1214
01:10:30,253 --> 01:10:32,503
Mondale in 84 when that happened?

1215
01:10:32,503 --> 01:10:34,303
Or his influence on the party nationally?

1216
01:10:36,268 --> 01:10:40,978
So, uh, Jackson admitted as you, as you
indicated, uh, that it was a mistake.

1217
01:10:41,398 --> 01:10:45,478
Uh, and, uh, he, as you
said, he apologized for it.

1218
01:10:45,898 --> 01:10:50,758
Uh, but I think the broader context
is that, uh, as your callers, uh,

1219
01:10:50,758 --> 01:10:56,608
indicated is that Jackson was trying
to build a broad coalition, uh, because

1220
01:10:56,608 --> 01:11:00,513
it was felt that the Democratic party
at the time, uh, was pretty much.

1221
01:11:01,173 --> 01:11:03,993
Uh, focus on, you know, we
had a very narrow focus.

1222
01:11:04,353 --> 01:11:09,603
And so Jackson, uh, which had been,
uh, unexpected for a black candidate.

1223
01:11:09,783 --> 01:11:12,213
Uh, there was a sense that
he would just only focus on

1224
01:11:12,213 --> 01:11:13,743
issues related to civil rights.

1225
01:11:14,133 --> 01:11:17,883
But he talked about the environment,
he talked about workers' rights.

1226
01:11:17,883 --> 01:11:22,743
He talked about a coalition that not only
would include black people, but Native

1227
01:11:22,743 --> 01:11:26,283
Americans, Latinos, Jews, Arab Americans.

1228
01:11:26,503 --> 01:11:28,003
Kind of across the board.

1229
01:11:28,243 --> 01:11:31,873
So, uh, even though that was,
you know, as, as happened in

1230
01:11:31,873 --> 01:11:35,983
campaigns, candidates will often
say something that's really wrong.

1231
01:11:36,283 --> 01:11:41,353
Uh, but Jackson, you know, tried
to balance that, uh, with both his

1232
01:11:41,353 --> 01:11:46,873
experience in terms of leading up to
that as well as, uh, in the platform

1233
01:11:46,873 --> 01:11:49,268
that he put forth, both in 84 and 88.

1234
01:11:50,043 --> 01:11:54,543
And, uh, like you recall, I actually
lived in Oakland, uh, in 83 and 84.

1235
01:11:54,543 --> 01:11:56,163
So I was out there for the convention.

1236
01:11:56,583 --> 01:12:00,483
Uh, and it was very much as the
speaker said that there was a hope

1237
01:12:00,483 --> 01:12:05,673
that because Jackson was targeting
issues that the candidates generally

1238
01:12:05,673 --> 01:12:09,843
did not, uh, that there there was
some, uh, way in which the Democratic

1239
01:12:09,843 --> 01:12:11,463
party could become more progressive,

1240
01:12:12,153 --> 01:12:13,743
more oral history.

1241
01:12:13,743 --> 01:12:16,713
Jonathan and Sunset Park, you're on WNYC.

1242
01:12:16,713 --> 01:12:17,343
Hi, Jonathan.

1243
01:12:19,138 --> 01:12:19,618
Hello.

1244
01:12:20,188 --> 01:12:20,698
Sorry.

1245
01:12:21,058 --> 01:12:24,058
Just eating my breakfast, um, late.

1246
01:12:24,058 --> 01:12:32,518
Yeah, I, uh, I am, uh, I was a student
at, uh, Columbia in 1984, and I was, uh,

1247
01:12:33,028 --> 01:12:37,983
working on, um, like voter registration
and mostly we would go out into Harlem.

1248
01:12:38,983 --> 01:12:40,513
And try to register people.

1249
01:12:40,873 --> 01:12:43,543
And, um, it was just, it
was a good experience.

1250
01:12:43,543 --> 01:12:47,083
Just people were just very excited
about, you know, the chance of, uh,

1251
01:12:47,083 --> 01:12:48,703
to be able to vote for Jesse Jackson.

1252
01:12:48,703 --> 01:12:52,963
And a lot of them had not voted like
since, you know, JFK or something.

1253
01:12:53,533 --> 01:12:58,063
So, um, I did that and then in
1988 I was living in San Francisco

1254
01:12:58,063 --> 01:13:01,963
and I was volunteering on the
camp, the Jackson campaign.

1255
01:13:02,383 --> 01:13:06,043
And, um, it was, I mean, it was great
experience because being in this

1256
01:13:06,043 --> 01:13:07,453
room with all these people, it was.

1257
01:13:08,068 --> 01:13:12,448
You know, the Jews for Jackson and
the Arabs for Jackson were, you

1258
01:13:12,448 --> 01:13:15,898
know, right there with each other
and, you know, Latino, the nations

1259
01:13:15,898 --> 01:13:17,308
and gay people and all of this.

1260
01:13:17,308 --> 01:13:20,878
It, it, you know, I think that was
really what he was so much about

1261
01:13:20,878 --> 01:13:25,858
was like trying to bring people
together, you know, and reaching out

1262
01:13:25,858 --> 01:13:27,538
to all these different communities.

1263
01:13:27,868 --> 01:13:30,788
Um, and as far as that thing
about that Hymietown, there was.

1264
01:13:31,888 --> 01:13:35,548
I remember at one point there was a
woman who called into the campaign, and

1265
01:13:35,548 --> 01:13:39,298
she was not Jewish, but she had Jewish
friends and she was concerned about this.

1266
01:13:39,298 --> 01:13:43,258
And you know, and I got on the phone and
was talking to her and telling her like,

1267
01:13:43,288 --> 01:13:45,958
you know, that was, you know, that was
something that was unfortunate, you know?

1268
01:13:45,958 --> 01:13:49,168
But you know, people sometimes
say things that are, you know,

1269
01:13:49,888 --> 01:13:52,498
you know, not proper, not correct.

1270
01:13:52,498 --> 01:13:54,838
No, we don't like, but you
have to look at the big picture

1271
01:13:54,838 --> 01:13:56,278
of what was he talking about?

1272
01:13:56,278 --> 01:14:00,238
You know, he was talking about every,
you know, including people, um.

1273
01:14:00,868 --> 01:14:04,648
And, uh, I, I just remembered as
there being this great experience

1274
01:14:04,648 --> 01:14:06,238
of just working together with.

1275
01:14:07,018 --> 01:14:11,308
This very diverse group of people
who are all focused on this guy.

1276
01:14:11,308 --> 01:14:12,028
And, um,

1277
01:14:12,148 --> 01:14:13,918
Jonathan tha thank, thank you.

1278
01:14:13,918 --> 01:14:14,998
Thank you very much.

1279
01:14:15,028 --> 01:14:15,118
Mm-hmm.

1280
01:14:15,358 --> 01:14:16,618
Enjoy the rest of your breakfast.

1281
01:14:17,008 --> 01:14:23,188
Um, and so, Dr. Lusane, in 88,
Jackson came in a strong second in

1282
01:14:23,188 --> 01:14:28,318
delegates, around 30% of delegates
to around 40% for the nominee

1283
01:14:28,318 --> 01:14:30,328
Massachusetts Governor Michael Dukakis.

1284
01:14:30,328 --> 01:14:32,698
What changed between 84 and 88?

1285
01:14:33,108 --> 01:14:36,833
That Jackson got about 700 more
delegates, had so much more success.

1286
01:14:38,533 --> 01:14:40,393
So that's a really important question.

1287
01:14:40,663 --> 01:14:46,873
So the 84 came and 84 campaign really
was grassroots, uh, generated, uh,

1288
01:14:46,873 --> 01:14:52,513
the year before in 1983 at the 20th
anniversary of the March on Washington.

1289
01:14:52,513 --> 01:14:56,263
The March in 63, where King
delivered his I Have a Dream speech.

1290
01:14:56,563 --> 01:14:57,853
There was a big commemoration.

1291
01:14:58,368 --> 01:15:02,748
But it was also a call to, uh,
to organize and to mobilize.

1292
01:15:03,078 --> 01:15:06,828
And the major, one of the major
themes that came from that, um, mo

1293
01:15:06,888 --> 01:15:09,468
that, uh, event was run, Jesse Run.

1294
01:15:09,888 --> 01:15:15,078
So there was a ground up pressure because
most of the black leadership at the time,

1295
01:15:15,078 --> 01:15:20,058
in 83 and 84 civil rights leadership,
black elected officials were all

1296
01:15:20,058 --> 01:15:22,878
backing Mondale or some other Democrat.

1297
01:15:23,133 --> 01:15:27,723
Saw Jesse as kind of an upstart, but
Jesse had support from black churches.

1298
01:15:27,723 --> 01:15:30,093
He had support from black
community organizations.

1299
01:15:30,633 --> 01:15:33,498
Uh, so that changed in
88 when Jesse ran in 88.

1300
01:15:34,183 --> 01:15:37,933
Virtually the entire black leadership
from the Congressional Black Caucus

1301
01:15:37,933 --> 01:15:42,073
members to black mayors to, uh,
black civil rights leaders all

1302
01:15:42,073 --> 01:15:44,173
back Jackson, uh, in that period.

1303
01:15:44,473 --> 01:15:49,243
So he had a very different
kind of, uh, energy in 1988.

1304
01:15:49,513 --> 01:15:52,663
He had the grassroots as well
as, uh, what some would call

1305
01:15:52,663 --> 01:15:54,553
the rooftops, uh, behind him.

1306
01:15:54,603 --> 01:15:56,043
in 2011.

1307
01:15:56,313 --> 01:15:59,913
I spoke with him shortly after
the unveiling of the Martin Luther

1308
01:15:59,913 --> 01:16:03,153
King Jr. Memorial in Washington DC.

1309
01:16:04,403 --> 01:16:07,643
I think we would do well to use
the stature as an occasion to

1310
01:16:07,643 --> 01:16:09,773
deal with his unfenced business.

1311
01:16:09,773 --> 01:16:12,983
He was shot down assassin at age 39.

1312
01:16:13,133 --> 01:16:14,243
Here's the last agenda.

1313
01:16:14,243 --> 01:16:20,153
Items included a poor people's campaign,
uh, the question in the war in Vietnam

1314
01:16:20,453 --> 01:16:24,263
and stopped the radical, uh, escalation of
capital in the hands of the real welfare.

1315
01:16:24,263 --> 01:16:28,313
And today, here we are with too
few people with too much wealth

1316
01:16:28,313 --> 01:16:29,543
subsidized by the government.

1317
01:16:29,988 --> 01:16:32,418
Too many unnecessary awards
and too many people in poverty.

1318
01:16:32,418 --> 01:16:36,528
So in some sense, this memorial gives
us a rallying point to keep going with

1319
01:16:36,528 --> 01:16:38,868
his unfinished, unfinished business.

1320
01:16:38,868 --> 01:16:41,718
We, we bail out the banks,
but length without length

1321
01:16:41,718 --> 01:16:43,158
to linking and reinvestment.

1322
01:16:43,158 --> 01:16:47,688
For example, the Bush tax cut extension
is more money than all of the state

1323
01:16:47,688 --> 01:16:49,038
budget debt that has combined.

1324
01:16:49,128 --> 01:16:53,118
So clearly Wall Street has
made out big time, but the poor

1325
01:16:53,118 --> 01:16:54,588
are, the poor are expanding.

1326
01:16:54,893 --> 01:16:58,643
And we're losing jobs in mass and
we must, in fact turn it around.

1327
01:16:58,673 --> 01:17:04,973
He died a very unpopular man, attacked
by our government, attacked by the media,

1328
01:17:05,183 --> 01:17:08,843
shunned by many blacks themselves, for
example, civil Rights Act because he

1329
01:17:08,843 --> 01:17:10,613
had dared to deal with the issue of, of.

1330
01:17:11,228 --> 01:17:12,908
Unjust unnecessary wars.

1331
01:17:12,908 --> 01:17:16,988
They were spending a trillion
dollars in Iraq on the wrong target.

1332
01:17:17,408 --> 01:17:19,118
Uh, overthrowing the government in Libya.

1333
01:17:19,148 --> 01:17:20,768
Well, billion than billions.

1334
01:17:20,768 --> 01:17:21,638
More to restore it.

1335
01:17:22,028 --> 01:17:24,008
Or 2 billion a week in Afghanistan.

1336
01:17:24,038 --> 01:17:26,408
And yet we're laying
off teachers, firemen.

1337
01:17:26,408 --> 01:17:26,948
Policemen.

1338
01:17:27,158 --> 01:17:28,508
He would be distress by that.

1339
01:17:28,508 --> 01:17:29,348
He would be weeping.

1340
01:17:29,778 --> 01:17:34,548
About that, uh, the bailout for
these banks who drove us in the hole

1341
01:17:34,548 --> 01:17:38,088
and then they get bail out without
links to kind of any reinvestment.

1342
01:17:38,358 --> 01:17:40,728
We refortify them, not restructure them.

1343
01:17:41,088 --> 01:17:44,328
These issues that Dr. King would
would've raised would be troubling,

1344
01:17:44,628 --> 01:17:49,878
but it is his sense of out raising
conscience, uh, that make us better today.

1345
01:17:49,878 --> 01:17:51,378
And I would hope, as Vince said that.

1346
01:17:51,628 --> 01:17:55,528
The interpretation must lead
us to his unfinished business.

1347
01:17:55,588 --> 01:17:59,818
The dream only makes sense if it's
connected to the broken promise

1348
01:18:00,058 --> 01:18:02,218
that had been unfulfilled 400 years.

1349
01:18:02,218 --> 01:18:06,118
And today, the dream has to put
every American back to work.

1350
01:18:06,418 --> 01:18:08,673
That means reinvesting in
the coming people Bottom up.

1351
01:18:09,243 --> 01:18:13,803
We are cutting public transportation,
the not access to jobs re segregating.

1352
01:18:14,073 --> 01:18:18,003
Our schools are most segregated, uh,
the biggest growth industry in most

1353
01:18:18,003 --> 01:18:19,653
states, the jail industrial complex.

1354
01:18:19,953 --> 01:18:23,673
So he would see me raising troubling
questions of conscience, so I would see

1355
01:18:23,673 --> 01:18:28,263
this monument as an opportunity to raise
issues of jobs and peace and justice.

1356
01:18:29,528 --> 01:18:34,508
The late Reverend Jesse Jackson
speaking on Democracy Now in 2011.

1357
01:18:34,568 --> 01:18:37,688
He died earlier today at the age of 84.

1358
01:18:38,228 --> 01:18:43,028
In 2008, Reverend Jackson appeared
on Democracy Now just after

1359
01:18:43,238 --> 01:18:45,968
Barack Obama won the Iowa Caucus.

1360
01:18:48,128 --> 01:18:50,168
First and historic significance.

1361
01:18:50,168 --> 01:18:56,828
I mean, an African American winning hour
or white ours were mature enough in their

1362
01:18:56,828 --> 01:19:07,148
thinking to choose message, uh, and, uh,
relationships over race is a big deal.

1363
01:19:07,868 --> 01:19:11,708
Um, because there were those who would
say, don't go to Iowa, New Hampshire.

1364
01:19:11,708 --> 01:19:14,618
'cause they're not representative
of the multicultural states.

1365
01:19:14,618 --> 01:19:19,058
But, so that said a lot to me
about the maturing of America.

1366
01:19:20,048 --> 01:19:24,278
Uh, I could not have to think about
the struggle to get to that point.

1367
01:19:24,998 --> 01:19:28,388
Many journalists that think it
came down from the sky and it

1368
01:19:28,388 --> 01:19:30,098
started, you know, in Boston.

1369
01:19:30,908 --> 01:19:31,268
But this.

1370
01:19:31,283 --> 01:19:36,113
Journey from the fifth fourth Supreme
Court decision to end legal apartheid

1371
01:19:36,113 --> 01:19:38,573
in this country, having succeeded.

1372
01:19:38,663 --> 01:19:41,333
Slavery was a big moment
in American history.

1373
01:19:42,203 --> 01:19:46,073
And then in 55, the the
lynching of Emmett Till, which

1374
01:19:46,553 --> 01:19:48,383
traumatized and woke up America.

1375
01:19:49,133 --> 01:19:51,833
And then out of that, four
months later, the sit-in of Rosa

1376
01:19:51,833 --> 01:19:53,213
Parks in the emergence of Dr.

1377
01:19:53,213 --> 01:19:58,163
King, and then the 1960s students
coming alive and risking and

1378
01:19:58,163 --> 01:19:59,783
sitting in and going to jail.

1379
01:20:00,418 --> 01:20:05,488
Leading toward the 63 March where Dr. King
landed his dream of hope for the nation

1380
01:20:06,058 --> 01:20:11,128
and the climax in the next year in the
64 public, 64 public accommodation bill.

1381
01:20:11,728 --> 01:20:17,128
But then, then the same 64 says,
hope kept rising politically, found

1382
01:20:17,128 --> 01:20:20,878
a little hammer and that group at
the Democratic Convention in, um,

1383
01:20:21,118 --> 01:20:22,468
in the Atlantic City of New Jersey.

1384
01:20:22,983 --> 01:20:26,403
Challenging the liberal
democratic structure of Mondale

1385
01:20:26,403 --> 01:20:28,233
and, and Humphrey and Johnson.

1386
01:20:28,233 --> 01:20:34,233
And in 64, and then we, while we, we
supported the Democrats, they didn't

1387
01:20:34,773 --> 01:20:37,953
have as their platform the Voting
Rights Act, Johnson said to Dr. King,

1388
01:20:38,853 --> 01:20:41,943
uh, when asked about the voting Right
Act, Dr. He not like it very much.

1389
01:20:42,688 --> 01:20:43,883
But you can't get the Voting Rights Act.

1390
01:20:44,188 --> 01:20:48,238
The reality is politically that if we
get the Voting Rights Act, we'll lose

1391
01:20:48,238 --> 01:20:49,498
the South for a quarter of a century.

1392
01:20:49,528 --> 01:20:51,928
Dr. King said, well, we have
to get the Voting Rights Act.

1393
01:20:51,928 --> 01:20:55,528
And so we marched in Selma, Alabama
to get the Voting Rights Act,

1394
01:20:56,158 --> 01:20:57,958
uh, and the blood of the people.

1395
01:20:57,958 --> 01:21:01,708
And of course, that struggle has
spawn everything politically,

1396
01:21:02,038 --> 01:21:03,418
the 65 Wooden Rights Act.

1397
01:21:03,898 --> 01:21:07,978
And then the Hatch victim at that
time, a black male of, of, uh, of.

1398
01:21:08,703 --> 01:21:09,843
Here was a national story.

1399
01:21:10,713 --> 01:21:14,403
The Black Mayor of Cleveland, uh,
Carl Stokes was a novel, it was

1400
01:21:14,403 --> 01:21:18,993
a national story at that time,
and it continued to, to grow.

1401
01:21:19,473 --> 01:21:22,983
And by 72, we challenged
the, the McGovern rules.

1402
01:21:22,983 --> 01:21:23,703
You you recall.

1403
01:21:23,703 --> 01:21:28,413
We unseed the day, the delegation as
we sought to have a more multicultural

1404
01:21:28,413 --> 01:21:31,863
seating of delegates from states in 72.

1405
01:21:32,523 --> 01:21:33,123
Uh, and by.

1406
01:21:33,723 --> 01:21:37,773
83, Harold Washington was running
for Mayor and Mondale and, uh,

1407
01:21:37,833 --> 01:21:41,583
Kennedy came to defeat him with,
with, uh, supporting Jane Byrne.

1408
01:21:41,583 --> 01:21:42,213
And, um.

1409
01:21:43,778 --> 01:21:44,318
And daily.

1410
01:21:44,678 --> 01:21:47,828
And we resisted that and it
was this tension between our

1411
01:21:47,828 --> 01:21:50,738
growth, uh, and in the process.

1412
01:21:51,158 --> 01:21:56,618
And out of that it drove me, in
fact, to run in 84 and 88, and we

1413
01:21:56,618 --> 01:21:58,148
kept expanding it on that coalition.

1414
01:21:58,923 --> 01:21:59,823
And we won.

1415
01:21:59,823 --> 01:22:03,243
But with new registered voters, new
voters, new voters, Democrats were

1416
01:22:03,243 --> 01:22:06,333
getting Senate in 86, uh, in the south.

1417
01:22:06,333 --> 01:22:11,733
We won North Carolina and Louisiana
and Alabama, and, and Florida.

1418
01:22:12,213 --> 01:22:16,323
By 88, we expanded that base
and the, Wilder became governor

1419
01:22:16,323 --> 01:22:18,123
in 89, we won Virginia in 80.

1420
01:22:18,123 --> 01:22:22,573
Wilder David Dinkins became
mayor of New York, and they

1421
01:22:22,573 --> 01:22:23,953
denied me, won New York in 88.

1422
01:22:24,433 --> 01:22:26,113
And so this thing has just continued.

1423
01:22:26,113 --> 01:22:31,303
So when the media says, well,
uh, uh, Barack was not a part

1424
01:22:31,303 --> 01:22:32,233
of the civil rights struggle.

1425
01:22:32,233 --> 01:22:33,883
He's a beneficiary of it.

1426
01:22:34,403 --> 01:22:38,453
Now the benefactor of it, but each
generation becomes beneficiary and

1427
01:22:38,453 --> 01:22:41,363
then benefactor that this year, he's
the beneficiary of that struggle.

1428
01:22:41,813 --> 01:22:42,263
Next time.

1429
01:22:42,263 --> 01:22:45,893
Those who came in because of him,
he'll, they'll be the beneficiaries,

1430
01:22:45,893 --> 01:22:46,763
he'll be the benefactor.

1431
01:22:46,763 --> 01:22:49,343
But the struggle continues.

1432
01:22:49,343 --> 01:22:53,333
And so from the 54th end of Apartheid
to the Voting Rights Act, to the

1433
01:22:53,363 --> 01:22:56,753
Urban Breakthroughs, to Harold
Washington native campaigns.

1434
01:22:57,268 --> 01:23:01,798
To me this historic a, a unbroken line
and, and I might add even, uh, the

1435
01:23:01,798 --> 01:23:03,928
party resisted supporting free Mandela.

1436
01:23:04,318 --> 01:23:06,058
We won the side of the
South African government.

1437
01:23:06,058 --> 01:23:07,438
We thought that was our security.

1438
01:23:08,068 --> 01:23:11,128
So I think it's a great
moment for American democracy.

1439
01:23:11,368 --> 01:23:14,593
This is not a perfect party will.

1440
01:23:14,593 --> 01:23:17,008
We are not the perfect people yet.

1441
01:23:17,013 --> 01:23:19,073
We are called to a perfect mission.

1442
01:23:19,888 --> 01:23:22,168
Jackson did not win the nomination.

1443
01:23:22,468 --> 01:23:25,738
Early in the primaries, an
anti-Semitic remark derailed.

1444
01:23:25,738 --> 01:23:26,458
His campaign

1445
01:23:26,668 --> 01:23:30,368
reports surfaced that Jackson had
privately referred to Jews as Hymies.

1446
01:23:31,528 --> 01:23:35,638
After a week of denials, Jackson
tonight admitted making that remark.

1447
01:23:35,848 --> 01:23:39,118
It cost him at the polls
and ended with an apology.

1448
01:23:39,428 --> 01:23:44,108
If there were occasions when my grape
turned into a raisin and my draw bell

1449
01:23:44,108 --> 01:23:50,768
lost its resonance, please forgive me,
charge it to my head and not to my heart.

1450
01:23:52,058 --> 01:23:56,738
But Jackson originally considered
a fringe candidate, did win four

1451
01:23:56,738 --> 01:24:00,098
state contests and 3.2 million votes.

1452
01:24:00,398 --> 01:24:05,018
He was just the second African American to
run a nationwide campaign for president.

1453
01:24:05,593 --> 01:24:07,363
And he finished third

1454
01:24:08,593 --> 01:24:09,883
in 1984.

1455
01:24:10,213 --> 01:24:13,693
I believe that Jesse Jackson
was right on the issues, but I

1456
01:24:13,693 --> 01:24:18,373
didn't vote for him because I
didn't think he could win in 1988.

1457
01:24:18,613 --> 01:24:21,883
Jesse Jackson is right on the
issues, and I think that he's the

1458
01:24:21,883 --> 01:24:24,733
best candidate for working men and
women of the state of New Hampshire.

1459
01:24:25,693 --> 01:24:30,103
In 1988, he ran again and more
than doubled his prior successes.

1460
01:24:33,568 --> 01:24:34,543
For the future.

1461
01:24:36,223 --> 01:24:41,503
He won 11 state contests and briefly
led the pack of Democratic candidates,

1462
01:24:41,563 --> 01:24:43,843
Jesse Jackson for president,

1463
01:24:44,263 --> 01:24:46,573
but he lost in 88 as well.

1464
01:24:46,753 --> 01:24:48,703
His last campaign for the presidency,

1465
01:24:48,823 --> 01:24:51,493
Jesse Jackson, was Sommely
defeated in Pennsylvania, getting

1466
01:24:51,493 --> 01:24:52,753
less than a third of the votes

1467
01:24:52,813 --> 01:24:55,063
at the Democratic National
Convention that year.

1468
01:24:55,183 --> 01:24:58,573
He delivered one of the most
celebrated speeches of his career.

1469
01:24:59,548 --> 01:25:04,498
I was born in the slum, but the slum
was not born in me, and it wasn't

1470
01:25:04,498 --> 01:25:06,703
born in you and you can make it.

1471
01:25:06,838 --> 01:25:08,308
It was a spectacular speech.

1472
01:25:08,343 --> 01:25:09,928
I, I, I really was moved to tears.

1473
01:25:09,928 --> 01:25:10,528
It was incredible.

1474
01:25:10,528 --> 01:25:10,588
If

1475
01:25:10,978 --> 01:25:15,838
Jesse can come from nowhere and be
somebody, I can be somebody too.

1476
01:25:16,798 --> 01:25:20,223
Pull your head high, stick your chest out.

1477
01:25:21,403 --> 01:25:22,023
You can make it.

1478
01:25:27,373 --> 01:25:31,513
Before Obama, Jackson was the first
black man to have a serious shot at

1479
01:25:31,513 --> 01:25:33,223
winning the office of the presidency.

1480
01:25:33,343 --> 01:25:35,563
He's the first to win
a major party primary.

1481
01:25:35,563 --> 01:25:37,153
So Frank, I'll start with you.

1482
01:25:37,513 --> 01:25:41,443
What memories do you have from
that first campaign in 1984?

1483
01:25:43,123 --> 01:25:45,343
Well, the first memory I have, um.

1484
01:25:46,723 --> 01:25:52,033
In 84, they had a winner take
all system, Democrats did.

1485
01:25:52,513 --> 01:25:57,853
So if you got 49% of the vote in a
state, you didn't get any delegates.

1486
01:25:58,303 --> 01:26:02,743
If the other person got 51%,
we changed the rules in the

1487
01:26:02,743 --> 01:26:04,873
Democratic party to proportionality.

1488
01:26:04,873 --> 01:26:12,433
So when you saw in all the races
leading up, and especially in 2020.

1489
01:26:13,633 --> 01:26:16,363
People were talking
about the 15% threshold.

1490
01:26:16,783 --> 01:26:20,293
They were really talking about
the Jackson rule, which is what

1491
01:26:20,293 --> 01:26:24,163
we changed between 84 and 88.

1492
01:26:25,243 --> 01:26:30,913
It's what allowed Barack Obama to win
the nomination and then eventually become

1493
01:26:31,183 --> 01:26:32,773
the President of the United States.

1494
01:26:33,133 --> 01:26:36,703
Yeah, really seeing that impact
there, Jonathan, what memories do

1495
01:26:36,703 --> 01:26:38,653
you have from that 84 campaign?

1496
01:26:40,123 --> 01:26:45,733
So in 1984 to see Mayor Marion Barry
give my father a, a head of state.

1497
01:26:46,813 --> 01:26:52,303
Entourage to go through the same
Constitution street that hosted

1498
01:26:52,303 --> 01:26:54,643
the Klan now many years later.

1499
01:26:55,123 --> 01:27:01,753
And then by 1988 I started, um, finishing
college and I realized since 1619,

1500
01:27:01,753 --> 01:27:07,393
it's 369 years later and the African
American is now, uh, seeking the highest.

1501
01:27:07,468 --> 01:27:10,798
Office in the land and you can
see the, the rotunda and the

1502
01:27:10,798 --> 01:27:13,138
Capitol and know all the history.

1503
01:27:13,138 --> 01:27:16,258
And, um, my father had a leg up.

1504
01:27:16,348 --> 01:27:19,198
And so, and the community
began to believe in itself.

1505
01:27:19,468 --> 01:27:22,768
Many people did not know the
voting rules, how we could vote.

1506
01:27:22,828 --> 01:27:26,728
So he had to do years of voter
education and voter registration

1507
01:27:26,728 --> 01:27:27,808
to lay the groundwork.

1508
01:27:28,228 --> 01:27:33,088
And then people believe, and so sure by
a will of force, he was able to do that.

1509
01:27:34,063 --> 01:27:38,293
Coming out of Michigan, I want to
go back to your montage, is, uh,

1510
01:27:38,953 --> 01:27:41,713
ultimately my father won Michigan.

1511
01:27:41,833 --> 01:27:45,823
The press had already left town
because it was a foregone conclusion

1512
01:27:46,243 --> 01:27:48,223
that, uh, someone else would win.

1513
01:27:48,223 --> 01:27:49,273
And then it was a shocker.

1514
01:27:49,273 --> 01:27:53,593
So we were leaving Michigan, going
into New York, and there was a writer.

1515
01:27:54,128 --> 01:27:56,138
Um, who said that?

1516
01:27:56,138 --> 01:27:58,128
Reverend Jackson said Hymietown.

1517
01:27:59,648 --> 01:28:02,468
And then the world got turned upside down.

1518
01:28:03,068 --> 01:28:05,648
No recording, no video, no tape.

1519
01:28:06,163 --> 01:28:12,163
Um, this is his word, working for a white
media outlet that had all this gravitas

1520
01:28:12,643 --> 01:28:16,723
and this person's word, and then that's
what happened going into New York.

1521
01:28:16,723 --> 01:28:21,223
There's not any anti in my
father's body or bones at all.

1522
01:28:21,703 --> 01:28:25,123
And then the script was flipped,
you know, slight of hand.

1523
01:28:25,273 --> 01:28:26,263
And so.

1524
01:28:27,088 --> 01:28:30,658
Although he apologized, we were
all in that area of the Senate.

1525
01:28:30,658 --> 01:28:32,098
That's not his spirit.

1526
01:28:32,158 --> 01:28:35,668
But when blacks work for certain
white papers, you gotta watch them

1527
01:28:36,058 --> 01:28:40,228
because they have to come down with a
majority white opinion on describing

1528
01:28:40,228 --> 01:28:42,238
blacks to help earn their salaries.

1529
01:28:42,328 --> 01:28:46,498
So, and there's nothing new
about that, you know, and, uh,

1530
01:28:46,558 --> 01:28:50,518
well this was, this was definitely
a, a pivotal moment in that campaign.

1531
01:28:50,518 --> 01:28:51,148
No doubt.

1532
01:28:51,473 --> 01:28:53,933
Um, Barbara, I'll bring you in here.

1533
01:28:54,203 --> 01:28:57,563
Uh, it was a conversation with
a Washington Post reporter where

1534
01:28:57,563 --> 01:29:01,493
he allegedly used that pejorative
term, um, and it blew up.

1535
01:29:01,913 --> 01:29:04,613
Barbara, can you explain from your
perspective what had happened here?

1536
01:29:05,183 --> 01:29:06,743
I don't know what happened.

1537
01:29:07,253 --> 01:29:08,933
Um, I didn't hear it.

1538
01:29:09,588 --> 01:29:14,268
I just saw it reported at the
time, you know, being, uh, um, one

1539
01:29:14,268 --> 01:29:18,288
of the first black, uh, reporters
in on the mainstream press.

1540
01:29:18,888 --> 01:29:25,338
Negative stereotypes was what
was the often menu, uh, that

1541
01:29:25,338 --> 01:29:26,598
blacks weren't good enough.

1542
01:29:26,598 --> 01:29:30,193
They, they weren't smart enough
and, and to see is strong.

1543
01:29:31,378 --> 01:29:36,928
Intelligent, brilliant black man
stand up like he did and debate

1544
01:29:36,928 --> 01:29:39,328
the issues with such a plume.

1545
01:29:39,868 --> 01:29:46,708
Uh, really, um, cast a spell over the,
the, uh, colleagues that I was looking at.

1546
01:29:46,708 --> 01:29:51,688
They seemed to be shocked that
this man, uh, was, was even there.

1547
01:29:52,078 --> 01:29:54,508
He had virtually no television ads.

1548
01:29:55,223 --> 01:29:59,513
He had an inexperienced campaign
staff who had never, uh, most of them

1549
01:29:59,513 --> 01:30:04,433
never worked with anybody running for
president, but by his estimates, he said

1550
01:30:04,433 --> 01:30:10,463
he won 3.5 million votes, spent less
than 3 million in comparison to about

1551
01:30:10,643 --> 01:30:16,373
31 million spent by Walter Mondale,
and 17 million spent by Gary Hart.

1552
01:30:17,003 --> 01:30:21,293
Uh, his race was supposed to be one
of the most cost efficient in history.

1553
01:30:21,563 --> 01:30:22,613
But here's the thing.

1554
01:30:22,703 --> 01:30:27,803
You know, you talk about when
he ran, uh, the people down

1555
01:30:27,803 --> 01:30:29,513
the ballot were, were running.

1556
01:30:29,783 --> 01:30:33,353
It seemed like he just
opened up a, a, a flood.

1557
01:30:33,808 --> 01:30:38,008
Of people were saying it's, it is
now, it is my time to get in the race.

1558
01:30:38,488 --> 01:30:42,958
It was about, uh, 10 of thousand people
running in the states for school,

1559
01:30:42,958 --> 01:30:45,238
board sheriff, state legislators.

1560
01:30:45,598 --> 01:30:51,658
I mean, he was transforming the,
the, uh, congressional and, and

1561
01:30:51,658 --> 01:30:56,968
state, uh, infrastructure of
America because when he ran, we won.

1562
01:30:57,508 --> 01:30:59,908
I think that when he lost, we still.

1563
01:31:00,568 --> 01:31:06,568
One, you cannot rule out what
Reverend Jackson did, and it's so

1564
01:31:06,568 --> 01:31:12,268
much attributed to the win of our
first black president, but Obama

1565
01:31:13,108 --> 01:31:14,878
and the, and if I could
add to that, thank you.

1566
01:31:14,878 --> 01:31:19,978
Ms. Reynolds is, uh, headlines
on certain newspapers in 1988.

1567
01:31:21,118 --> 01:31:25,318
Or reading, and we gotta talk about the
racism in the media and the journalism.

1568
01:31:25,678 --> 01:31:28,558
Um, is it legal for him to run?

1569
01:31:28,888 --> 01:31:29,398
Wow.

1570
01:31:29,488 --> 01:31:29,968
Yeah.

1571
01:31:30,538 --> 01:31:31,888
They just couldn't take it.

1572
01:31:32,183 --> 01:31:39,368
You know, Jonathan, that this man, uh, did
not come to them to ask could he do it.

1573
01:31:40,258 --> 01:31:43,438
So what else could they do,
but say now, should he do it?

1574
01:31:44,593 --> 01:31:47,953
And you see the parallels in how
Barack Obama was treated when he

1575
01:31:47,953 --> 01:31:53,683
ran in 2008 with birtherism of this,
this idea of can you, are you even

1576
01:31:53,683 --> 01:31:55,573
allowed to, can you legally do it?

1577
01:31:55,603 --> 01:31:59,233
You kind of, it's, it's, it's eerie how
you see history kind of repeat itself.

1578
01:31:59,683 --> 01:32:00,103
Yes.

1579
01:32:00,898 --> 01:32:03,568
I wanna wrap here with everybody
with our final question.

1580
01:32:04,228 --> 01:32:09,388
We talked about the impact on the
political system, but what is Reverend

1581
01:32:09,388 --> 01:32:15,238
Jackson's legacy here when we take in,
you know, his activism, the presidents

1582
01:32:15,238 --> 01:32:21,538
presidency, the politics, what impact did
all this have on American history itself?

1583
01:32:23,128 --> 01:32:26,278
Yeah, I don't think, uh, American
politics will have, would be the same

1584
01:32:26,278 --> 01:32:28,918
again, what was started in 84 and 88.

1585
01:32:29,818 --> 01:32:33,898
Uh, politics doesn't operate,
you know, boom, boom, boom.

1586
01:32:33,988 --> 01:32:36,688
It takes time for things to, uh, gel.

1587
01:32:36,898 --> 01:32:41,458
And so what you're seeing now with
all these young people of color

1588
01:32:41,638 --> 01:32:47,368
and gay lesbian people and women,
and the people that were in the

1589
01:32:47,368 --> 01:32:50,788
coalition in 84 and 88 are now.

1590
01:32:51,403 --> 01:32:52,543
Running for office.

1591
01:32:53,233 --> 01:32:57,853
So I think Reverend Jackson
changed politics forever.

1592
01:32:57,853 --> 01:32:57,913
I,

1593
01:32:58,633 --> 01:33:04,843
I have to just bring mention in here
because we say he was a civil rights

1594
01:33:04,843 --> 01:33:09,943
leader, but he was also an international
leader, and he's not perfect.

1595
01:33:10,788 --> 01:33:14,298
And, and he'll tell you, you'll be the
first to tell you that he's not perfect.

1596
01:33:14,298 --> 01:33:15,678
Like none of us are perfect.

1597
01:33:16,098 --> 01:33:20,988
But when you look at it and then you
look at the leadership crisis for today,

1598
01:33:21,528 --> 01:33:24,168
that is scandalous, that is toxic.

1599
01:33:24,648 --> 01:33:26,868
You don't wanna almost wanna
put a crown on his head.

1600
01:33:33,638 --> 01:33:36,428
Next up, section B, rainbow Coalition.

1601
01:33:36,635 --> 01:33:37,835
So set the scene for us.

1602
01:33:37,895 --> 01:33:40,445
What was happening in
Chicago in the late 1960s?

1603
01:33:40,805 --> 01:33:42,695
Well, it's 1969.

1604
01:33:43,025 --> 01:33:48,575
Of course, the city, like so many parts
of the country, was still reeling and on

1605
01:33:48,575 --> 01:33:50,765
edge following the violence and uprisings.

1606
01:33:51,165 --> 01:33:55,665
Sparked by Martin Luther King Jr's
assassination, and Chicago was

1607
01:33:55,665 --> 01:34:01,125
then and still is today, famously
one of the most deeply segregated

1608
01:34:01,125 --> 01:34:03,135
big cities in the United States.

1609
01:34:03,310 --> 01:34:06,930
Now is the time to get rid of
the slums and ghettos of Chicago.

1610
01:34:07,695 --> 01:34:08,265
Now is the time.

1611
01:34:08,985 --> 01:34:09,165
Yeah.

1612
01:34:09,170 --> 01:34:12,375
I remember reading about how, you know,
obviously before he was killed, Martin

1613
01:34:12,375 --> 01:34:16,785
Luther King went north to Chicago to
organize poor people and he was met by and

1614
01:34:16,785 --> 01:34:18,645
attacked by all these angry white crowds.

1615
01:34:18,735 --> 01:34:19,845
I have never.

1616
01:34:20,385 --> 01:34:25,395
Seen even in Mississippi and
Alabama, mobs as hostile and as

1617
01:34:25,395 --> 01:34:27,350
hate filled as our seen in Chicago.

1618
01:34:27,855 --> 01:34:28,905
The march will go on anyway.

1619
01:34:28,905 --> 01:34:34,455
And during the violence and unrest after
King's assassination, Chicago's mayor

1620
01:34:34,515 --> 01:34:39,615
Richard j Dailey told the police to
kill people rioting in the street and

1621
01:34:39,615 --> 01:34:43,995
very definite that an order be issued
immediately to shoot, to kill any

1622
01:34:43,995 --> 01:34:48,015
arsonist or anyone with a Molotov
cocktail in their hand in Chicago.

1623
01:34:48,305 --> 01:34:49,805
To fire a building,

1624
01:34:50,525 --> 01:34:55,505
even in times with less unrest, that
kind of police violence was a big part

1625
01:34:55,505 --> 01:34:57,755
of life in certain Chicago neighborhoods.

1626
01:34:58,415 --> 01:35:00,755
The cops racially profiled people.

1627
01:35:01,025 --> 01:35:03,545
They arrested them
without telling them why.

1628
01:35:03,635 --> 01:35:05,045
You know all the classics.

1629
01:35:05,135 --> 01:35:05,585
Yeah.

1630
01:35:05,975 --> 01:35:10,025
One group that was organizing against
all this was the Black Panthers

1631
01:35:10,175 --> 01:35:14,405
who were founded to protect black
residents from police brutality and

1632
01:35:14,405 --> 01:35:16,445
provide them with basic services.

1633
01:35:16,985 --> 01:35:21,065
So the Black Panther Party
for Self-Defense is started in

1634
01:35:21,065 --> 01:35:23,855
Oakland, California in 1966.

1635
01:35:24,185 --> 01:35:25,955
This is Jakobi Williams.

1636
01:35:26,045 --> 01:35:29,525
He's a professor and historian who
wrote a whole book about this called

1637
01:35:29,705 --> 01:35:30,965
From The Bullet to the Ballot.

1638
01:35:31,385 --> 01:35:36,755
So in 68 in Chicago, you get the
founding of the Illinois Chapter

1639
01:35:36,755 --> 01:35:37,955
of the Black Panther Party.

1640
01:35:38,195 --> 01:35:41,465
Many of its leaders come from the
west side of Chicago, Fred Hampton.

1641
01:35:41,465 --> 01:35:46,085
Probably the most famous of the
group is from Maywood, Illinois.

1642
01:35:46,560 --> 01:35:49,290
A lot of people will recognize
the name Fred Hampton.

1643
01:35:49,830 --> 01:35:52,830
He was the chair of the Illinois
Chapter of the Panthers, and he

1644
01:35:52,830 --> 01:35:55,680
was recently the subject of the
movie Judas and the Black Messiah.

1645
01:35:59,610 --> 01:36:01,320
We'll get to Hampton more later.

1646
01:36:02,580 --> 01:36:02,640
So.

1647
01:36:03,545 --> 01:36:07,415
The Panthers are organizing black
folks on the west side, but on the

1648
01:36:07,415 --> 01:36:09,665
north side there's this street gang.

1649
01:36:09,995 --> 01:36:14,165
They call themselves the Young
Lords, and they're made up of mostly

1650
01:36:14,165 --> 01:36:18,515
Puerto Rican migrants and one of the
leaders, a guy named Cha-Cha Jiménez.

1651
01:36:19,460 --> 01:36:23,240
Became politically active after he
was locked up for drug possession.

1652
01:36:23,420 --> 01:36:27,290
And because the young lords were poor and
lived in a neighborhood that was being

1653
01:36:27,290 --> 01:36:33,350
primed for redevelopment, it was near the
city center and right on the lake, they

1654
01:36:33,350 --> 01:36:38,720
watched as the Puerto Rican residents were
pushed out as richer white folks moved in.

1655
01:36:39,860 --> 01:36:44,120
So when Jimenez got out of prison,
he decided that the young Lords

1656
01:36:44,120 --> 01:36:45,860
wouldn't be a street gang anymore.

1657
01:36:46,575 --> 01:36:50,835
It was going to be an organization
that provided essential services to

1658
01:36:50,835 --> 01:36:55,395
their neighborhood, like childcare
and healthcare and free food programs.

1659
01:36:55,785 --> 01:36:57,615
So kind of along the lines of
what the Panthers were doing.

1660
01:36:57,705 --> 01:36:57,885
Right,

1661
01:36:58,395 --> 01:36:59,205
exactly.

1662
01:36:59,325 --> 01:37:03,465
Jimenez specifically looked to the
Panthers as a model for the young Lords.

1663
01:37:04,835 --> 01:37:08,225
And there was one more group
in the uptown neighborhood.

1664
01:37:08,435 --> 01:37:13,115
There was an enclave of working class
white folks who had moved from Appalachia

1665
01:37:13,115 --> 01:37:15,965
to Chicago for better economic prospects.

1666
01:37:16,475 --> 01:37:16,595
Huh.

1667
01:37:16,655 --> 01:37:19,085
So it was sort of like a great
migration, but for white folks,

1668
01:37:19,295 --> 01:37:19,895
essentially.

1669
01:37:20,665 --> 01:37:23,785
Uptown was one of the poorest
neighborhoods in the city.

1670
01:37:24,205 --> 01:37:27,355
It had a certain reputation.

1671
01:37:27,985 --> 01:37:34,585
A 1958 issue of Harper's Bizarre described
the people there as quote, proud, poor,

1672
01:37:34,825 --> 01:37:37,855
primitive, and fast with a knife, unquote.

1673
01:37:37,915 --> 01:37:38,635
Yikes,

1674
01:37:38,845 --> 01:37:39,325
right?

1675
01:37:39,385 --> 01:37:40,405
Here's Jakobi again.

1676
01:37:40,645 --> 01:37:44,065
They faced some of the same oppression
that African Americans, Puerto Ricans

1677
01:37:44,065 --> 01:37:46,225
were, were facing because they were poor.

1678
01:37:46,820 --> 01:37:48,260
The police harassed them.

1679
01:37:48,410 --> 01:37:50,270
They weren't getting basic services.

1680
01:37:50,780 --> 01:37:53,120
People treated them like
they were backwards.

1681
01:37:53,630 --> 01:37:57,890
So you have various entities
in the Chicago community who

1682
01:37:57,950 --> 01:38:02,360
called them derogatory terms like
hillbillys or poor white trash.

1683
01:38:02,600 --> 01:38:03,860
So they were discriminated against.

1684
01:38:04,220 --> 01:38:08,270
And so they organized themselves
against what they saw as, um,

1685
01:38:08,330 --> 01:38:09,890
community not supporting them.

1686
01:38:10,130 --> 01:38:14,240
And so at first, these poor white
folks teamed up with white, middle

1687
01:38:14,240 --> 01:38:15,680
class lefty college students.

1688
01:38:16,560 --> 01:38:22,140
Later they formed an organization run
by and for poor white people in uptown.

1689
01:38:22,530 --> 01:38:25,080
They called themselves the young Patriots.

1690
01:38:25,890 --> 01:38:26,070
Okay?

1691
01:38:26,070 --> 01:38:29,190
So you got these groups who are
working in different parts of the city.

1692
01:38:29,220 --> 01:38:31,440
You got the Black
Panthers on the west side.

1693
01:38:31,710 --> 01:38:34,170
You got the Young Lords who are
Puerto Rican on the north side,

1694
01:38:34,170 --> 01:38:37,560
and you got the young Patriots who
are poor white folks in uptown.

1695
01:38:37,970 --> 01:38:41,120
And so they have, you know,
different constituencies so to speak.

1696
01:38:41,630 --> 01:38:43,790
And we know from the listeners'
questions that they kind of

1697
01:38:43,790 --> 01:38:45,080
linked up like Voltron eventually.

1698
01:38:47,810 --> 01:38:49,700
Gene, what is Voltron?

1699
01:38:50,120 --> 01:38:50,540
Oh my god.

1700
01:38:50,540 --> 01:38:53,180
I don't know if I should be offended as
like an older millennial or just like,

1701
01:38:53,330 --> 01:38:54,710
you're not sufficiently nerdy, whatever.

1702
01:38:54,710 --> 01:38:57,920
Anyway, the thing that matters here
is that Voltron is a giant robot made

1703
01:38:57,920 --> 01:39:01,250
up of these different colored parts,
uh, that come together to form a

1704
01:39:01,250 --> 01:39:02,900
super robot to beat up the bad guys.

1705
01:39:02,900 --> 01:39:06,175
That's the simplest, least nerdy and
least embarrassing way I can explain it.

1706
01:39:06,945 --> 01:39:07,365
Okay.

1707
01:39:07,365 --> 01:39:07,935
Yes.

1708
01:39:07,935 --> 01:39:09,465
So it's kind of like Voltron.

1709
01:39:09,885 --> 01:39:10,185
Okay.

1710
01:39:10,185 --> 01:39:10,395
Yeah.

1711
01:39:10,455 --> 01:39:11,775
So how did they end up working together?

1712
01:39:12,555 --> 01:39:16,815
So one night the young Patriots
were invited to speak at a church

1713
01:39:16,815 --> 01:39:20,625
with a congregation of mostly middle
class white folks on the north side.

1714
01:39:21,195 --> 01:39:24,795
The Patriots were supposed to be
given a talk about police brutality,

1715
01:39:25,305 --> 01:39:27,795
but the meeting turned raucous.

1716
01:39:28,305 --> 01:39:32,115
It's a scene captured in the
documentary, American Revolution two.

1717
01:39:32,925 --> 01:39:33,705
So here's what happens.

1718
01:39:34,325 --> 01:39:38,405
The poor white folks and the Patriots at
this meeting were trying to explain to

1719
01:39:38,405 --> 01:39:43,415
the middle class white folks that they
just wanted decent housing and proper

1720
01:39:43,415 --> 01:39:47,915
jobs, but some of the middle class people
came down on the Patriots essentially

1721
01:39:47,915 --> 01:39:50,585
saying, why is that our problem?

1722
01:39:50,585 --> 01:39:50,645
Of

1723
01:39:51,065 --> 01:39:52,355
course they did that.

1724
01:39:52,385 --> 01:39:52,490
Of course.

1725
01:39:53,345 --> 01:39:55,895
And it turned out that one of
the people who had coordinated

1726
01:39:55,895 --> 01:40:00,845
the meeting that evening had
also invited the Black Panthers.

1727
01:40:01,565 --> 01:40:06,575
Now, one of the Panthers in particular
watched these white folks, y'all at each

1728
01:40:06,575 --> 01:40:11,885
other, and in the documentary you see him
come to defense of the young Patriots.

1729
01:40:12,195 --> 01:40:14,505
Pushing back on the churchgoers.

1730
01:40:15,255 --> 01:40:18,735
His name was Bob Lee E. His
name was Robert E. Lee ii.

1731
01:40:18,735 --> 01:40:19,215
This African

1732
01:40:19,215 --> 01:40:21,045
American man from Houston, Texas.

1733
01:40:21,465 --> 01:40:24,165
Wait, Robert E. Lee, like
the Confederate General?

1734
01:40:24,435 --> 01:40:27,045
Yes, like the Confederate General.

1735
01:40:27,375 --> 01:40:29,385
So he wasn't named after him?

1736
01:40:29,415 --> 01:40:30,105
I wouldn't think so.

1737
01:40:30,105 --> 01:40:30,135
I

1738
01:40:30,195 --> 01:40:35,025
want that to be clear, but Bob
Lee's name would actually create

1739
01:40:35,085 --> 01:40:39,765
an opening because the Young
Patriots was made up of Southerners.

1740
01:40:39,765 --> 01:40:39,775
Okay.

1741
01:40:40,340 --> 01:40:45,620
And even though they were lefties,
all of their signage and symbols

1742
01:40:45,620 --> 01:40:48,620
were draped in the Confederate flag.

1743
01:40:49,520 --> 01:40:49,790
Wait, what?

1744
01:40:50,960 --> 01:40:51,350
Huh?

1745
01:40:51,530 --> 01:40:53,510
Yeah, it was a whole thing.

1746
01:40:54,050 --> 01:40:55,850
They wore the flag on their clothes.

1747
01:40:56,030 --> 01:40:59,390
They hung the Confederate flag up
in their headquarters, you know,

1748
01:40:59,395 --> 01:41:00,895
quote unquote Southern Pride.

1749
01:41:01,855 --> 01:41:02,975
I, I don't know, man.

1750
01:41:04,315 --> 01:41:07,850
Listen, I know, but more
than that in a second.

1751
01:41:08,210 --> 01:41:09,260
So, back to the meeting.

1752
01:41:10,220 --> 01:41:14,390
Bob Lee, the Black Panther, not the
traitorous Confederate general, right.

1753
01:41:14,390 --> 01:41:17,480
Had just moved to Chicago from Texas.

1754
01:41:17,810 --> 01:41:21,080
It was supposed to be his first
speaking engagement in the city

1755
01:41:21,620 --> 01:41:25,370
and he is watching all this and he
knows the young Patriots want the

1756
01:41:25,370 --> 01:41:27,560
same things that the Panthers want.

1757
01:41:28,070 --> 01:41:33,650
So he gets to work at that meeting and
mediates throwing his arm around people,

1758
01:41:33,710 --> 01:41:36,590
real talk in them, trying to get them.

1759
01:41:36,935 --> 01:41:40,655
To see that everyone in the
room was dealing with the same

1760
01:41:40,655 --> 01:41:42,815
BS and wanted the same things.

1761
01:41:43,670 --> 01:41:45,050
Let's see what we all have in common.

1762
01:41:45,050 --> 01:41:46,700
You all have rats and roaches up here?

1763
01:41:47,030 --> 01:41:47,600
We do too.

1764
01:41:47,720 --> 01:41:49,520
You have police brutality, so did we.

1765
01:41:49,730 --> 01:41:51,140
You have dilapidated housing?

1766
01:41:51,200 --> 01:41:52,130
Yes, we do as well.

1767
01:41:52,160 --> 01:41:53,060
What about your schools?

1768
01:41:53,060 --> 01:41:53,870
They underfunded.

1769
01:41:54,050 --> 01:41:54,740
Underserved.

1770
01:41:54,830 --> 01:41:56,780
So are you being drafted to Vietnam?

1771
01:41:57,020 --> 01:41:57,680
We are too.

1772
01:41:57,680 --> 01:41:58,580
So why do we hate with each other?

1773
01:41:58,580 --> 01:41:58,910
Again?

1774
01:41:58,910 --> 01:42:00,320
You have healthcare, dental.

1775
01:42:00,350 --> 01:42:01,010
We don't either.

1776
01:42:01,280 --> 01:42:04,100
So one only thing that's divided
us is our so-called race.

1777
01:42:04,100 --> 01:42:07,070
So let's rely on what we have
in common, which is our poverty.

1778
01:42:07,610 --> 01:42:11,690
So Ana, we've learned so much about the
effectiveness of organizing around key

1779
01:42:11,720 --> 01:42:16,010
progressive issues and really pushing
back against the kind of representational

1780
01:42:16,010 --> 01:42:21,890
politics that so often cloud the actual
needs of people rather than there's a

1781
01:42:21,890 --> 01:42:25,310
black or brown, uh, or an agent in office.

1782
01:42:25,370 --> 01:42:29,540
And so I'm really curious, you know,
do you think right now what you're

1783
01:42:29,540 --> 01:42:33,770
seeing on the ground in Chicago makes
the Rainbow Coalition that we've

1784
01:42:33,770 --> 01:42:35,420
been talking about still viable?

1785
01:42:35,420 --> 01:42:37,910
Do you think this is something, and
Ben, I don't know what, I don't even

1786
01:42:37,910 --> 01:42:39,380
know if you, what you think about this.

1787
01:42:39,385 --> 01:42:42,740
Do, do you think this is something that
we ought to be talking a lot more about?

1788
01:42:43,290 --> 01:42:45,840
Khalil, I mean, uh, I'm
thinking about this a lot.

1789
01:42:45,900 --> 01:42:48,840
We have a mayoral election going
on, but I'm also thinking about

1790
01:42:48,840 --> 01:42:50,430
the demographics in Chicago.

1791
01:42:50,430 --> 01:42:54,150
So we were talking about Harold
Washington when he was mayor.

1792
01:42:54,510 --> 01:42:57,420
The, the Latino population
was not that big.

1793
01:42:57,540 --> 01:43:00,120
It was like around 14% or something.

1794
01:43:00,180 --> 01:43:00,420
Okay.

1795
01:43:00,420 --> 01:43:04,290
And we had this huge influx,
especially people from Mexico over

1796
01:43:04,290 --> 01:43:06,180
the next, you know, 20, 30 years.

1797
01:43:06,420 --> 01:43:10,590
And now at least in theory, we have
this beautifully diverse city of like

1798
01:43:10,590 --> 01:43:18,300
30% Latino, 45% white, 30% black,
and, and another sort of 7% Asian.

1799
01:43:18,690 --> 01:43:23,340
Now we're madly segregated, so it doesn't
feel crazy diverse, but, but the, the,

1800
01:43:23,340 --> 01:43:25,500
the total makeup is this amazing thing.

1801
01:43:25,500 --> 01:43:25,590
Yes.

1802
01:43:26,040 --> 01:43:29,070
And that's probably true of
cities, you know, democratic

1803
01:43:29,070 --> 01:43:30,630
cities all across the country.

1804
01:43:30,630 --> 01:43:32,460
Chicago is representative in that way.

1805
01:43:32,790 --> 01:43:32,880
Yes.

1806
01:43:32,880 --> 01:43:36,720
Of a rising Latino population and sort
of thinking about the jumble of these

1807
01:43:36,720 --> 01:43:41,910
politics and, and like partly what we
were talking about with Harold Washington.

1808
01:43:42,470 --> 01:43:46,220
Is sort of this white backlash
to this progressive movement and

1809
01:43:46,220 --> 01:43:50,930
to this, this, you know, intra
interracial, uh, connections.

1810
01:43:51,230 --> 01:43:55,460
Um, but I'm really interested in
sort of like the, the, also the

1811
01:43:55,460 --> 01:43:57,680
black Latino divides that happen.

1812
01:43:57,680 --> 01:43:57,890
That's right.

1813
01:43:57,890 --> 01:44:02,060
And like to think about how that's
also taking shape in Chicago, because

1814
01:44:02,300 --> 01:44:06,290
certainly like, you know, I think the
black community in some ways feels

1815
01:44:06,290 --> 01:44:09,890
like they're losing out of power,
you know, but maybe Rosanna feels

1816
01:44:09,890 --> 01:44:11,540
differently of seeing this on the ground.

1817
01:44:11,810 --> 01:44:15,290
Um, and even like seeing it in the
city council, which has this, you

1818
01:44:15,290 --> 01:44:19,345
know, 50 aldermen alder people,
alders Alder women and Alder men.

1819
01:44:19,345 --> 01:44:19,545
Mm-hmm.

1820
01:44:19,790 --> 01:44:20,480
All them.

1821
01:44:20,840 --> 01:44:22,580
But, but, you know, so, so yeah.

1822
01:44:22,580 --> 01:44:25,730
I think it's, it is this,
it is this example of what's

1823
01:44:25,730 --> 01:44:26,840
happening nationally here.

1824
01:44:26,900 --> 01:44:26,960
I

1825
01:44:27,410 --> 01:44:32,270
think there's a lot of work to do
to be able to build, um, the same

1826
01:44:32,270 --> 01:44:37,520
structures in black communities, and
it is very challenging right now.

1827
01:44:37,610 --> 01:44:41,210
Um, we are in the middle of this
mayor election and United Working

1828
01:44:41,210 --> 01:44:46,130
Families, which is our effort to create
a workers' party, um, in Chicago.

1829
01:44:46,550 --> 01:44:49,790
And the top of the ticket is
Brandon Johnson for for mayor,

1830
01:44:49,820 --> 01:44:53,570
which I believe that he is trying
to build that Rainbow Coalition.

1831
01:44:53,570 --> 01:44:57,560
And Brandon's Black just, uh, even I know
that from, from from national reporting.

1832
01:44:57,560 --> 01:44:58,070
Okay.

1833
01:44:58,160 --> 01:44:58,310
Yes.

1834
01:44:58,310 --> 01:45:04,280
So, so here, so the, so what I am saying
is here in this Latino neighborhoods,

1835
01:45:04,280 --> 01:45:07,490
right, the different organizations that
have been built around all of these other

1836
01:45:07,490 --> 01:45:11,420
candidates at different levels of office,
um, this is something that we haven't been

1837
01:45:11,420 --> 01:45:13,910
able to build yet in black communities.

1838
01:45:13,970 --> 01:45:19,040
And because of segregation, it
has been a very different reality.

1839
01:45:19,430 --> 01:45:24,500
Are you saying that when you say we, you
mean the party has not been effective

1840
01:45:24,560 --> 01:45:28,400
on some of the black wards and districts
on the south and west sides of Chicago?

1841
01:45:28,400 --> 01:45:29,480
That's what you mean by the we?

1842
01:45:29,480 --> 01:45:29,540
No,

1843
01:45:30,135 --> 01:45:35,120
what I mean is that what it means, that
those efforts haven't gotten underway.

1844
01:45:35,120 --> 01:45:38,690
So can you give an example of an
organizing effort to get a program

1845
01:45:38,690 --> 01:45:42,560
in place or a policy that hasn't
yet worked among black Chicagoans?

1846
01:45:42,800 --> 01:45:47,330
One example of this is treatment trauma is
a bill that I introduced in 2020 to create

1847
01:45:47,630 --> 01:45:51,290
a mental health response, um, holistic
mental health response in Chicago.

1848
01:45:51,530 --> 01:45:54,770
We put it on the ballot in
the last election in November.

1849
01:45:55,010 --> 01:45:57,140
We were hearing my word 33.

1850
01:45:57,170 --> 01:46:00,080
And in two wards that are
predominantly black, which are the

1851
01:46:00,080 --> 01:46:02,600
sixth ward and the 20th ward, yeah.

1852
01:46:02,660 --> 01:46:03,680
People knocked on doors.

1853
01:46:03,680 --> 01:46:04,790
People had conversations.

1854
01:46:04,790 --> 01:46:06,140
This is how we do it, right?

1855
01:46:06,140 --> 01:46:07,340
Like we go to people, we.

1856
01:46:07,445 --> 01:46:09,725
We talked about what are the
problems that we're having?

1857
01:46:09,725 --> 01:46:11,255
Well, this is a possible solution.

1858
01:46:11,645 --> 01:46:12,605
How do we do this?

1859
01:46:12,605 --> 01:46:16,895
But we haven't been doing that necessarily
in a lot of black communities here

1860
01:46:16,895 --> 01:46:19,025
in, in, in the North Northwest side.

1861
01:46:19,025 --> 01:46:20,045
We started doing it.

1862
01:46:20,585 --> 01:46:23,135
Um, but we haven't been able to
go through that process there.

1863
01:46:23,135 --> 01:46:26,345
And I say we, because this is
everybody's responsibility, right?

1864
01:46:26,615 --> 01:46:31,625
I say we, I am in my community doing
what, what I can, but we haven't

1865
01:46:31,625 --> 01:46:36,995
been able to have that level of, of
organization in this particular context.

1866
01:46:36,995 --> 01:46:39,455
But we are on our way to do that.

1867
01:46:39,635 --> 01:46:39,815
Right.

1868
01:46:39,815 --> 01:46:39,905
And

1869
01:46:39,905 --> 01:46:42,155
Ro Rosanna, I'm, I'm, I'm
interested in this idea.

1870
01:46:42,155 --> 01:46:44,705
So you're endorsing a
black progressive can.

1871
01:46:45,270 --> 01:46:49,200
In the mayor election, there's a
very prominent Latino candidate

1872
01:46:49,200 --> 01:46:54,090
as well who actually emerges from
Harold Washington's coalition.

1873
01:46:54,090 --> 01:46:54,360
We know.

1874
01:46:54,540 --> 01:46:54,630
Yeah.

1875
01:46:54,630 --> 01:46:55,560
Chewy Garcia.

1876
01:46:55,560 --> 01:46:55,860
Yeah.

1877
01:46:55,860 --> 01:46:57,690
Who, who I met a few years ago.

1878
01:46:57,690 --> 01:46:59,550
Uh, it seems like a really lovely guy.

1879
01:47:01,350 --> 01:47:04,350
Um, I got, I got, I'm thinking
about two things here.

1880
01:47:04,350 --> 01:47:08,820
One is, is it controversial
that you are siding with a black

1881
01:47:08,820 --> 01:47:10,140
progressive and not a Latino?

1882
01:47:10,140 --> 01:47:14,520
And maybe you can explain sort of
how your progressive politics kind

1883
01:47:14,520 --> 01:47:18,030
of supersedes, uh, a racial politics.

1884
01:47:18,090 --> 01:47:22,290
And then two, like say you're knocking
on doors and you go to an older

1885
01:47:22,290 --> 01:47:26,640
family and in your ward and, you know,
a Latino family and, and they're,

1886
01:47:26,640 --> 01:47:28,110
they're Chewy Garcia supporters.

1887
01:47:28,110 --> 01:47:29,070
How do you convince them?

1888
01:47:29,070 --> 01:47:30,060
You're like, no, no, no.

1889
01:47:30,210 --> 01:47:33,870
This, this, this black guy who,
who actually has your interests?

1890
01:47:33,900 --> 01:47:34,650
Brandon Johnson.

1891
01:47:34,650 --> 01:47:35,490
Um, better.

1892
01:47:35,670 --> 01:47:35,850
Yeah.

1893
01:47:35,855 --> 01:47:35,865
Yeah.

1894
01:47:37,025 --> 01:47:42,995
Yeah, well the, those conversations,
um, usually start with an issue, right?

1895
01:47:42,995 --> 01:47:45,125
Like, what is the issue
that you care about?

1896
01:47:45,485 --> 01:47:46,415
And it is not easy.

1897
01:47:46,415 --> 01:47:49,025
And I, I would like to start
saying I have a lot of respect

1898
01:47:49,025 --> 01:47:50,945
for, uh, Congressman Garcia.

1899
01:47:51,455 --> 01:47:53,345
Um, I know him personally.

1900
01:47:53,405 --> 01:47:57,395
I did meet with him alongside all
of the northwest side electeds,

1901
01:47:57,485 --> 01:47:59,315
uh, progressive Latino electeds.

1902
01:47:59,495 --> 01:48:02,195
He was not ready to commit to
running when we met with him.

1903
01:48:02,705 --> 01:48:04,505
Um, and Brandon was.

1904
01:48:05,015 --> 01:48:08,765
And Brandon sat down with us and we
talked about all of the different, uh,

1905
01:48:08,765 --> 01:48:13,715
things that we needed, and he committed
to fighting alongside us for those things.

1906
01:48:13,955 --> 01:48:18,665
So I am going to support the person
that is going to go to bed for the

1907
01:48:18,665 --> 01:48:20,885
progressive agenda that we have, right?

1908
01:48:21,425 --> 01:48:23,225
So we couldn't commit to it at that point.

1909
01:48:23,225 --> 01:48:24,635
He didn't even know if he was running.

1910
01:48:24,905 --> 01:48:27,815
I'm sorry, we have to run
somebody against Mayor Lightfoot.

1911
01:48:27,815 --> 01:48:29,165
So this is what we're doing.

1912
01:48:29,555 --> 01:48:32,585
Um, and I am very proud to be
supporting Brandon Johnson because I

1913
01:48:32,585 --> 01:48:34,835
know what his history is in movement.

1914
01:48:34,835 --> 01:48:36,545
I know that he's a union person.

1915
01:48:36,545 --> 01:48:41,285
I know that, um, he, I know where
he has been and what he has been

1916
01:48:41,285 --> 01:48:46,685
doing, and I, I, I do think that it
is important for Latino communities.

1917
01:48:47,315 --> 01:48:51,065
Um, to understand who is
fighting in their best interest.

1918
01:48:51,065 --> 01:48:53,345
And I think Brandon is
going to be doing that.

1919
01:48:53,735 --> 01:48:58,985
When I go into a, a household and we
talked about the issues at hand, I am

1920
01:48:59,045 --> 01:49:02,555
very comfortable saying Brandon has
committed to treatment, not trauma.

1921
01:49:02,735 --> 01:49:05,375
Brandon already committed to that
and I know that I'm going to be able

1922
01:49:05,375 --> 01:49:06,785
to count on him to deliver that.

1923
01:49:06,875 --> 01:49:11,855
I wanna just, um, sort of round
this out with an issue that I

1924
01:49:11,855 --> 01:49:17,045
think is a third rail around this
question of coalition politics.

1925
01:49:17,105 --> 01:49:19,685
Um, and it certainly is in New York City.

1926
01:49:19,745 --> 01:49:21,245
Um, it is in a lot of places.

1927
01:49:21,245 --> 01:49:25,085
So you keep talking about treatment,
not trauma, and I want to understand

1928
01:49:25,085 --> 01:49:29,525
like how does that intersect with a
larger debate about Chicago crime?

1929
01:49:29,555 --> 01:49:32,735
Just like many other cities and in
a lot of other places, it's most

1930
01:49:32,735 --> 01:49:35,585
certainly derailed progressive ideas.

1931
01:49:35,585 --> 01:49:40,535
It has derailed the attractiveness of
progressive politicians who have been.

1932
01:49:40,870 --> 01:49:44,710
Saddled with the stigma of hating
police officers through the

1933
01:49:44,770 --> 01:49:46,210
quote unquote defund movement.

1934
01:49:46,570 --> 01:49:50,110
And, and it seems like this isn't,
this doesn't animate any of the

1935
01:49:50,110 --> 01:49:51,310
people that you're talking to.

1936
01:49:51,370 --> 01:49:52,240
Do I have that right?

1937
01:49:52,300 --> 01:49:53,830
And if so, how is that possible?

1938
01:49:55,240 --> 01:49:58,630
Well, that's what I was just talking
about with the election of Delia Ramirez,

1939
01:49:58,630 --> 01:50:03,580
then Anthony Casava and all of the slate
that just won, like they were attacked.

1940
01:50:03,580 --> 01:50:08,170
Literally everybody was saying,
everybody against them was saying,

1941
01:50:08,590 --> 01:50:14,980
these people are defund The opposition
got money from the FOP, like, yeah,

1942
01:50:15,220 --> 01:50:18,125
like the police $17,000 from the FOP.

1943
01:50:18,490 --> 01:50:21,970
And what happened was that it's
backfired because those values

1944
01:50:21,970 --> 01:50:23,290
do not belong in our communities.

1945
01:50:23,290 --> 01:50:28,120
And we called it out and we said,
you are taking money from people

1946
01:50:28,120 --> 01:50:32,530
who are, you know, like the, the
president of the FOP in Chicago is.

1947
01:50:34,065 --> 01:50:36,170
A, a terrible human being.

1948
01:50:36,230 --> 01:50:37,280
He's racist.

1949
01:50:37,280 --> 01:50:40,940
He has made so many Islamophobic remarks.

1950
01:50:41,000 --> 01:50:44,300
He was okay with the riots
in the in the capitol.

1951
01:50:44,630 --> 01:50:45,140
On January.

1952
01:50:45,140 --> 01:50:45,830
On January 6th.

1953
01:50:45,830 --> 01:50:45,840
Sixth,

1954
01:50:46,070 --> 01:50:49,850
he said, he said the only, the only
law he saw broken was, uh, trespassing.

1955
01:50:49,880 --> 01:50:50,265
That was his quote.

1956
01:50:51,275 --> 01:50:52,055
At the January 6th.

1957
01:50:52,055 --> 01:50:52,175
Yeah.

1958
01:50:52,205 --> 01:50:53,465
So, so, so I'm sorry.

1959
01:50:53,465 --> 01:50:55,325
We are not going to stand by those values.

1960
01:50:55,325 --> 01:50:55,745
Right?

1961
01:50:55,745 --> 01:50:55,805
Yeah.

1962
01:50:55,805 --> 01:50:58,565
And, and I think that we need to
speak clearly about those things, but

1963
01:50:58,565 --> 01:51:03,305
also speak very clearly as well about
what is it that we imagine, right?

1964
01:51:03,305 --> 01:51:06,575
Because people need to be able
to imagine how is it that you're

1965
01:51:06,575 --> 01:51:09,005
talking about safety and what are the
concrete things that you're gonna do?

1966
01:51:09,305 --> 01:51:13,385
And treatment and trauma, for example,
is trying to reduce the amount of calls

1967
01:51:13,385 --> 01:51:18,035
that are going through 9 1 1 by developing
other approaches that are well, like,

1968
01:51:18,035 --> 01:51:21,575
way better, um, and, and evidence based.

1969
01:51:21,575 --> 01:51:25,535
To handle things that are public
health based, to handle things that are

1970
01:51:25,745 --> 01:51:27,605
human service, social service based.

1971
01:51:27,995 --> 01:51:32,915
Um, so expanding the care pilot
that we fought for so that you

1972
01:51:32,915 --> 01:51:35,975
don't have to send police to deal
with mental health emergencies.

1973
01:51:36,185 --> 01:51:39,695
Creating walking crisis centers that
are open 24 hours so that we, you

1974
01:51:39,695 --> 01:51:41,375
have a place to transport, right?

1975
01:51:41,375 --> 01:51:46,325
You don't have to go to the police station
or to the ER making sure that you have, I

1976
01:51:46,325 --> 01:51:51,515
like to call them beat clinicians instead
of talking about beat cops all the time.

1977
01:51:51,845 --> 01:51:56,105
You actually need beat like social
workers that are going to go and are

1978
01:51:56,105 --> 01:52:00,515
going to monitor the people and places
that are most likely to go into crisis.

1979
01:52:00,515 --> 01:52:03,215
'cause you already know what's happened
there and where those people are.

1980
01:52:03,485 --> 01:52:07,835
Build trust, monitor them, figure out
how you can prevent crisis, right?

1981
01:52:08,165 --> 01:52:12,905
It is actually not like rocket science and
this is working in other cities as well.

1982
01:52:13,265 --> 01:52:17,465
So when I hear that somebody
is behind the treatment trauma

1983
01:52:17,465 --> 01:52:19,025
approach, which let me tell you.

1984
01:52:20,030 --> 01:52:23,030
In the last several my year
old debates, treatment trauma

1985
01:52:23,030 --> 01:52:24,470
has been in everybody's mouth.

1986
01:52:24,860 --> 01:52:26,180
Everybody's talking
about treatment, trauma.

1987
01:52:26,210 --> 01:52:29,120
When I first introduced it, nobody
wanted to hear anything about it.

1988
01:52:29,420 --> 01:52:34,400
But now we do need to be thinking
about safety in a different way

1989
01:52:34,400 --> 01:52:38,150
and use the right and proper
tools to address each social issue

1990
01:52:38,280 --> 01:52:45,480
when we went to the committees to work
on, you know, mayor Daley's Rubber

1991
01:52:45,480 --> 01:52:52,380
Stamp Committees, uptown Conservation
Council, uh, with this proposal,

1992
01:52:53,400 --> 01:52:57,450
they looked at it and they said,
well, you know, let's look at it.

1993
01:52:57,450 --> 01:52:59,730
If you can get funding, we'll
take a serious look at it.

1994
01:53:00,120 --> 01:53:00,750
We did.

1995
01:53:00,750 --> 01:53:04,465
We got, you know, like half a
million dollars at that time.

1996
01:53:05,565 --> 01:53:11,535
And this was from various banks and
realtors and developers and, you know,

1997
01:53:11,535 --> 01:53:13,695
church associations and all that.

1998
01:53:14,535 --> 01:53:20,745
Uh, you know, but of course, you know,
in the end, you know, they, they pull

1999
01:53:20,745 --> 01:53:22,485
a secret meeting and voted it down.

2000
01:53:23,445 --> 01:53:28,365
So the lessons that can be learned
today is, hey, you know, be

2001
01:53:28,365 --> 01:53:32,745
smarter than they're, you know,
they're, they're always planning.

2002
01:53:34,095 --> 01:53:36,225
And why don't, why aren't we planning?

2003
01:53:37,095 --> 01:53:38,295
Why aren't we planning?

2004
01:53:38,295 --> 01:53:39,885
Why don't we have think tanks?

2005
01:53:40,155 --> 01:53:44,325
Why don't we talk about the types
of things that they're talking

2006
01:53:44,325 --> 01:53:48,795
about and look at it through their
eyes in the way that they see it?

2007
01:53:49,275 --> 01:53:53,325
Because, you know, poor folks
and white, uh, rich folks do

2008
01:53:53,325 --> 01:53:55,575
not see the same as each other.

2009
01:53:56,745 --> 01:53:58,485
There's a whole different way of thinking.

2010
01:53:59,325 --> 01:54:00,735
If you talk to somebody with money.

2011
01:54:00,975 --> 01:54:05,685
You talk about raising the minimum
wage to $15 an hour, they'll say,

2012
01:54:05,685 --> 01:54:07,275
well, a hamburger will cost more.

2013
01:54:08,475 --> 01:54:09,525
Well, who gives a fuck?

2014
01:54:10,245 --> 01:54:15,405
You know, I mean, a hamburger does
cost more, but that means that

2015
01:54:15,405 --> 01:54:18,045
somebody else can eat, you know?

2016
01:54:18,675 --> 01:54:19,995
So that's the way they see it.

2017
01:54:20,295 --> 01:54:24,165
And uh, and, and I think that's
the way that we need to approach

2018
01:54:24,165 --> 01:54:25,725
'em and talk to them about it.

2019
01:54:26,565 --> 01:54:28,095
And too many times.

2020
01:54:29,190 --> 01:54:33,300
You know, they think that the,
that the poor person is, is the

2021
01:54:33,330 --> 01:54:39,660
subservient person to the rich
person or to the, or to their boss.

2022
01:54:40,830 --> 01:54:46,020
When in actuality, uh, the poor
person may not have a choice,

2023
01:54:47,340 --> 01:54:52,740
but given the choice, they will
fight against the person in power.

2024
01:54:53,430 --> 01:54:57,045
So what we see, and
you ask it about Trump.

2025
01:54:58,470 --> 01:55:03,660
Unfortunately, you know, the
types of racism that we were

2026
01:55:03,660 --> 01:55:06,570
dealing with is still there.

2027
01:55:06,570 --> 01:55:08,400
And it's still there.

2028
01:55:08,400 --> 01:55:11,220
It's still in, we're
talking about the south.

2029
01:55:11,220 --> 01:55:12,210
I live in the south.

2030
01:55:12,210 --> 01:55:18,210
I know within my street there's only
like three people on the block that are

2031
01:55:18,210 --> 01:55:22,650
not Trump supporters, and the reason
they're Trump supporters is because

2032
01:55:23,220 --> 01:55:26,100
the government wasn't smart enough.

2033
01:55:27,075 --> 01:55:28,965
And so they overlooked everybody.

2034
01:55:29,895 --> 01:55:31,755
They overlooked the poor people.

2035
01:55:31,755 --> 01:55:33,375
They overlooked the working class people.

2036
01:55:34,875 --> 01:55:38,115
And that racism has,
has always been there.

2037
01:55:39,885 --> 01:55:44,745
But then you have somebody like Donald
Trump comes in and says, I'm your answer.

2038
01:55:45,525 --> 01:55:47,145
I'm a racist, son of a bitch.

2039
01:55:47,925 --> 01:55:53,265
And therefore, if you let these other
people into this country, or if you.

2040
01:55:53,820 --> 01:55:58,680
If you believe in, you know, this
democratic process, it's socialism.

2041
01:55:58,740 --> 01:55:59,580
Socialism.

2042
01:55:59,580 --> 01:56:03,330
It's so bad they're gonna come in and
take the money that you don't have.

2043
01:56:03,930 --> 01:56:09,480
But they think they have because
back in the, there's an interesting

2044
01:56:09,480 --> 01:56:14,580
thing that happened back in the
sixties, back in uptown, uh, and,

2045
01:56:14,580 --> 01:56:18,240
and other, you know, across the
country people didn't have credit.

2046
01:56:18,510 --> 01:56:18,900
Okay.

2047
01:56:19,965 --> 01:56:20,185
Um.

2048
01:56:21,135 --> 01:56:24,315
And I'm not gonna get too far off
base here, but there's part of it.

2049
01:56:25,155 --> 01:56:26,595
Uh, people didn't have credit.

2050
01:56:27,195 --> 01:56:33,315
And so the government, wall Street saw
all this protest about poor people.

2051
01:56:34,815 --> 01:56:37,395
They saw this going on
with Martin Luther King.

2052
01:56:38,235 --> 01:56:40,245
They saw Poor People's Campaign.

2053
01:56:40,905 --> 01:56:44,775
They saw all kinds of people,
poor people, uprising, and

2054
01:56:44,775 --> 01:56:45,945
what are you gonna do about it?

2055
01:56:45,975 --> 01:56:47,895
They, they're not about to
give them any more money.

2056
01:56:48,690 --> 01:56:51,540
So what they're gonna do is
try to make money off of them.

2057
01:56:52,655 --> 01:56:56,580
And, and so they gave poor folks credit.

2058
01:56:58,500 --> 01:57:03,210
I remember getting a credit card, didn't
really know what it was, but instead

2059
01:57:03,210 --> 01:57:09,000
I had 300 bucks on it, you know, and I
needed 300 bucks, so what am I gonna do?

2060
01:57:09,540 --> 01:57:10,170
I took it.

2061
01:57:10,320 --> 01:57:10,950
I used it.

2062
01:57:11,040 --> 01:57:14,340
Now I gotta pay it back With
all this interest on it.

2063
01:57:15,570 --> 01:57:20,760
And so one of the problems I believe
that organizing poor folks today

2064
01:57:21,420 --> 01:57:23,970
is the definition of what is poor.

2065
01:57:24,750 --> 01:57:30,300
And we can ask people if they're poor
and they will say, no, I am not poor.

2066
01:57:30,810 --> 01:57:34,860
I have my credit card,
I have my flat screen.

2067
01:57:35,790 --> 01:57:40,860
I have my telephone, I got my computer.

2068
01:57:41,970 --> 01:57:43,230
You know, I got all these things.

2069
01:57:45,045 --> 01:57:46,540
But they're still paying for 'em.

2070
01:57:47,895 --> 01:57:52,065
I have a neighbor next door that
just had two cars repossessed,

2071
01:57:53,475 --> 01:57:55,425
you know, within the last week.

2072
01:57:56,325 --> 01:57:57,735
But, but they thought they had money.

2073
01:57:57,735 --> 01:58:00,255
They thought they had
credit and they don't.

2074
01:58:00,470 --> 01:58:07,305
And so, uh, here comes Donald Trump
along saying, you gotta stand by me.

2075
01:58:07,305 --> 01:58:09,015
I'm gonna give you all this shit.

2076
01:58:09,015 --> 01:58:10,965
You know, we're gonna,
we're gonna take over.

2077
01:58:11,565 --> 01:58:13,215
And that's what they believe because.

2078
01:58:14,130 --> 01:58:17,490
The Democrats and the
Republicans didn't do that.

2079
01:58:19,320 --> 01:58:25,260
And we're moving more and more
toward, in my opinion, fascism

2080
01:58:26,490 --> 01:58:27,840
than we've ever been before.

2081
01:58:29,550 --> 01:58:33,570
And that's even incorporating the
Democrat and the Republican Party and

2082
01:58:33,570 --> 01:58:36,090
you know, especially Donald Trump.

2083
01:58:37,710 --> 01:58:41,370
You know, I was just in a, a
gun shop here a few weeks ago.

2084
01:58:42,840 --> 01:58:49,080
And, um, a guy went in and bought an AK
right off the shelf, went out there, and

2085
01:58:49,080 --> 01:58:50,460
I just thought I'd look at his truck.

2086
01:58:50,460 --> 01:58:55,650
Well, it's got that Confederate
flag on it, you know, and

2087
01:58:55,650 --> 01:58:56,580
you know what that means?

2088
01:58:56,580 --> 01:59:01,050
That means they're, you know, they're
preparing for something and I'm afraid

2089
01:59:01,050 --> 01:59:04,830
our country's in deep shit, you know?

2090
01:59:06,360 --> 01:59:11,220
And the only thing that we can do
is try to try to keep organizing.

2091
01:59:12,285 --> 01:59:13,845
That, that's really an
important story there.

2092
01:59:13,845 --> 01:59:16,965
I mean, I think that you just told,
and I, and I just conclude here, but

2093
01:59:16,965 --> 01:59:20,205
I, I was thinking about it before, just
before we start the conversation, we'll

2094
01:59:20,205 --> 01:59:23,955
make this short, is that you showed me
a picture you just put on your Facebook

2095
01:59:23,955 --> 01:59:29,925
page of, uh, Bobby Lee and, and Bobby
McGinnis from the Black Panthers and

2096
01:59:29,925 --> 01:59:33,795
the young Patriots effectively, and
the young Patriot McGinnis had a, a

2097
01:59:33,795 --> 01:59:37,665
Confederate flag on the back of his
cutoff denim jacket standing next to the.

2098
01:59:38,505 --> 01:59:40,815
I believe the Black Panther
in his black leather jacket.

2099
01:59:41,625 --> 01:59:46,365
That, to me, pictures spoke volumes about
what you wrote about in the book, but it

2100
01:59:46,365 --> 01:59:50,865
also speaks volumes about where we can go
as a movement and, and in this country.

2101
01:59:51,225 --> 01:59:54,735
I mean, I think that, that,
that really struck me.

2102
01:59:55,455 --> 01:59:59,740
Well, there's, yeah, there is a
new movement starting, and I, and

2103
01:59:59,820 --> 02:00:03,435
I, I think in one of our phone
conversations that I had mentioned, it.

2104
02:00:04,095 --> 02:00:09,015
There is a new, uh, movement
toward a new Rainbow coalition

2105
02:00:09,735 --> 02:00:16,245
and this, this encompasses several
different organizations that's

2106
02:00:16,665 --> 02:00:18,765
actually modeling themselves.

2107
02:00:19,545 --> 02:00:24,495
After the original Rainbow
Coalition, there's several groups.

2108
02:00:24,495 --> 02:00:30,075
There's the new African Black
Panther Party, which has a point

2109
02:00:30,075 --> 02:00:32,805
program, which is pretty much
like the original Black Panthers.

2110
02:00:33,495 --> 02:00:39,315
There's a new, new era, young Lords
made up of a bunch of young Hispanic

2111
02:00:39,315 --> 02:00:43,575
people, uh, the Brown Berets that
have been around for a while.

2112
02:00:44,535 --> 02:00:48,225
Uh, an organization called The
White Panthers, which is modeling

2113
02:00:48,225 --> 02:00:52,845
themselves after the Young Patriots,
American Indi, aim, parts of

2114
02:00:52,845 --> 02:00:54,465
aim, some of the AIM chapters.

2115
02:00:55,695 --> 02:00:59,355
And an Asian group, and, and,
and, you know, they're, they're

2116
02:00:59,355 --> 02:01:01,305
moving toward organizing.

2117
02:01:01,305 --> 02:01:01,755
Now.

2118
02:01:01,755 --> 02:01:08,835
They've asked me and some of the other
old timers to be a council of elders,

2119
02:01:09,615 --> 02:01:11,745
you know, so we can advise them.

2120
02:01:12,615 --> 02:01:16,065
They want to take the lead from
the original Rainbow Coalition,

2121
02:01:16,575 --> 02:01:19,725
not necessarily make it different,
but make it more modern.

2122
02:01:21,435 --> 02:01:25,695
Uh, in terms of, you know, what's
happening in the country today, and

2123
02:01:25,695 --> 02:01:27,255
I think we're gonna see more of that.

2124
02:01:27,825 --> 02:01:30,465
I think this is a reality
and it's gonna happen.

2125
02:01:31,005 --> 02:01:35,295
We, we gotta keep educating and what the
school that, that I'm running called the

2126
02:01:35,295 --> 02:01:41,895
North Alabama School or organizers, you
know, is to educate organizers or to give

2127
02:01:41,895 --> 02:01:48,015
them more resources and educate people to
become organizers or effective organizers.

2128
02:01:49,020 --> 02:01:53,610
And so these types of, I, I think
you'll see these types of programs,

2129
02:01:53,670 --> 02:01:57,540
uh, in schools emerging more and more.

2130
02:01:59,130 --> 02:02:02,400
it seems to me there's potential power
of the Rainbow Coalition was part of the

2131
02:02:02,400 --> 02:02:05,010
reason that Fred Hampton was assassinated.

2132
02:02:05,010 --> 02:02:09,090
I mean, there's this multiracial
coalition crossing all ethnic and

2133
02:02:09,090 --> 02:02:12,600
racial lines of working class people
around Chicago was a real threat

2134
02:02:12,900 --> 02:02:14,160
to the power in the establishment.

2135
02:02:14,610 --> 02:02:17,790
And Bobby Lee might have been doing most
of the work in from the Panther side

2136
02:02:17,790 --> 02:02:21,690
and building the coalition, but they
thought taking a Hampton out would end it.

2137
02:02:22,320 --> 02:02:24,150
So, I mean, do you think that's correct?

2138
02:02:24,720 --> 02:02:25,470
Take it up from there.

2139
02:02:26,355 --> 02:02:27,765
Oh, oh, absolutely.

2140
02:02:27,765 --> 02:02:31,395
I think, you know, at that particular
time, you know, at that time in

2141
02:02:31,395 --> 02:02:35,625
Chicago, period, I, I think it's
been going on, it was going on since

2142
02:02:35,625 --> 02:02:37,425
almost the formation of Chicago.

2143
02:02:37,425 --> 02:02:41,445
That, that somebody had to get
beat down, you know, and, and

2144
02:02:41,445 --> 02:02:43,035
it just happened to be our turn.

2145
02:02:43,635 --> 02:02:49,425
But, uh, uh, you know, when,
when, I don't think, I don't think

2146
02:02:49,425 --> 02:02:54,770
anybody ever expected for, you know,
I, I think they, they may have.

2147
02:02:55,485 --> 02:02:59,295
Expected, maybe the, the brown community
and the black community to get together.

2148
02:02:59,745 --> 02:03:04,005
But never, never, I don't think they
would ever expect that a bunch of

2149
02:03:04,005 --> 02:03:10,245
hillbillies would join in, you know,
with a bunch of black and and brown

2150
02:03:10,245 --> 02:03:12,525
hood ones, you know, as they would say.

2151
02:03:13,575 --> 02:03:17,355
Uh, and at that meeting now, that was,
that's a very important meeting to

2152
02:03:17,355 --> 02:03:22,365
watch the dynamics of, of what took
place that from what poison was saying.

2153
02:03:23,010 --> 02:03:26,670
Was the fact that there was a lot of
tension there, man, there was there

2154
02:03:26,670 --> 02:03:28,050
just all kinds of tension there.

2155
02:03:28,050 --> 02:03:31,530
There were some people who, you know,
who thought that the, the Panthers were

2156
02:03:31,530 --> 02:03:35,550
just a bunch of gun toting gangsters.

2157
02:03:35,550 --> 02:03:39,420
And, and of course, you know, you're
dealing with a lot of white supremacy.

2158
02:03:40,440 --> 02:03:42,450
You know, you're dealing
with a lot of racism.

2159
02:03:42,450 --> 02:03:46,560
You're dealing with, you know, in that
community with the, with the Ku Klux clan.

2160
02:03:47,340 --> 02:03:52,320
American Nazi party, you know, I mean, you
know, and we got, but we managed to get

2161
02:03:52,320 --> 02:03:56,430
a lot of people together at that meeting,
uh, who were, some were just curious.

2162
02:03:57,960 --> 02:04:02,400
Uh, and I think that when, when they
walked outta that meeting, um, they were

2163
02:04:02,400 --> 02:04:04,950
committed, A lot of 'em were committed.

2164
02:04:04,950 --> 02:04:09,120
Of course, some of 'em still would
be, you know, white supremacist,

2165
02:04:09,690 --> 02:04:14,820
uh, but Bobby Lee had a way of, he
didn't just sit there, he walked

2166
02:04:14,820 --> 02:04:16,440
right in the middle of the crowd, man.

2167
02:04:17,325 --> 02:04:20,115
I mean, he walked right in the
middle of the, of the floor and just

2168
02:04:20,115 --> 02:04:23,655
started talking to people and putting
his hands on people's shoulders.

2169
02:04:24,105 --> 02:04:28,515
And that broke a lot of ice right
there because, you know, it showed that

2170
02:04:28,965 --> 02:04:32,385
this, this dude really cared, you know,
instead of just setting up the table

2171
02:04:32,385 --> 02:04:34,935
and talking, uh, that he really cared.

2172
02:04:34,935 --> 02:04:39,885
And I think, uh, that carried a
lot of weight within the, the,

2173
02:04:39,885 --> 02:04:44,055
the white community there, but
also, uh, with the, with the

2174
02:04:44,055 --> 02:04:46,035
Native Americans that lived there.

2175
02:04:47,270 --> 02:04:50,715
We, we could begin to, you
know, to to talk a little more,

2176
02:04:50,715 --> 02:04:52,305
break down some, some barriers.

2177
02:04:53,145 --> 02:04:57,645
And it began, we began to, uh,
people started looking at us as not

2178
02:04:57,645 --> 02:05:03,975
necessarily a gang anymore, but a
group of people who kids, you know,

2179
02:05:03,975 --> 02:05:05,295
who was trying to make a change.

2180
02:05:05,295 --> 02:05:09,375
And I think that, that because of that
and because of that formation, the

2181
02:05:09,375 --> 02:05:10,615
beginning of the formation there, the.

2182
02:05:11,520 --> 02:05:14,970
Of, uh, of the, uh, rainbow Coalition.

2183
02:05:14,970 --> 02:05:16,410
I think it scared the hell out of Daley.

2184
02:05:17,070 --> 02:05:20,340
I think it scared a lot of
people powers to be that.

2185
02:05:20,340 --> 02:05:25,920
Never would they think that a group of
crazy hillbillies would get together with,

2186
02:05:25,920 --> 02:05:28,350
with blacks and, you know, Puerto Ricans.

2187
02:05:28,350 --> 02:05:30,000
I mean, it just wasn't heard of.

2188
02:05:30,000 --> 02:05:33,360
We were supposed to be fighting
each other, you know, and which,

2189
02:05:33,720 --> 02:05:37,050
which was happening, you know,
at least a year before that.

2190
02:05:38,130 --> 02:05:42,420
So, uh, yeah, I would say that's, that's
probably, that's one of the reasons

2191
02:05:42,420 --> 02:05:47,190
that, that Hampton was assassinated
because he was dealing with class, uh,

2192
02:05:47,255 --> 02:05:53,100
he, he started dealing with class and
the poor, and so he started dealing

2193
02:05:53,100 --> 02:05:57,330
with more and recruiting more and more
poor people of all, of all colors.

2194
02:05:57,480 --> 02:06:03,690
Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, Bobby Lee did
a lot of the work, but we, it, it wouldn't

2195
02:06:03,690 --> 02:06:07,200
have been possible without Fred Hamptons.

2196
02:06:08,385 --> 02:06:16,545
And his, uh, charismatic ability
to deal with other elements of

2197
02:06:16,545 --> 02:06:18,225
the Rainbow Coalition as well.

2198
02:06:18,765 --> 02:06:33,075
Uh, Fred was able to, uh, analyze complex
ideas and translate them into, uh, the

2199
02:06:33,075 --> 02:06:35,505
vernacular of the people on the block.

2200
02:06:35,970 --> 02:06:41,940
People, people, the common working class
people, and those who made up what we

2201
02:06:41,940 --> 02:06:51,390
call the lump and proletariat, um, uh,
as had talked about it shook up daily.

2202
02:06:51,390 --> 02:06:56,820
It shook up the, uh, cook County
Democratic machine, which daily

2203
02:06:56,820 --> 02:07:03,480
was the head of, and the system
that daily, uh, controlled.

2204
02:07:04,200 --> 02:07:11,730
As, uh, the Pharaoh, as the top
banana in that criminal political

2205
02:07:11,730 --> 02:07:18,030
organization, uh, of the Cook
County, uh, democratic machine.

2206
02:07:19,800 --> 02:07:32,880
Um, of course the coalition, the formation
was not as easy, uh, as it looked.

2207
02:07:34,560 --> 02:07:41,550
Bobby Lee in the film and the impact
that he was making there, because

2208
02:07:42,300 --> 02:07:48,690
we had our own issues back at the
headquarters because at that point,

2209
02:07:49,260 --> 02:07:54,870
uh, the nascent Illinois chapter of
the Black Panther party had members

2210
02:07:54,870 --> 02:08:02,220
who came from various elements of, uh,
political activism, and you had some.

2211
02:08:02,805 --> 02:08:12,705
Were strongly nationalistic in terms of
black nationalism who, uh, didn't and

2212
02:08:12,705 --> 02:08:16,845
couldn't handle that type of alliance.

2213
02:08:17,415 --> 02:08:21,555
And ultimately, uh, some
resigned from the party.

2214
02:08:22,215 --> 02:08:24,015
I mean, you're saying because
of the coalition, because of

2215
02:08:24,015 --> 02:08:25,125
that interracial coalition?

2216
02:08:25,815 --> 02:08:26,710
Yes, because.

2217
02:08:35,010 --> 02:08:46,470
That, you know, not bringing white
people into, uh, the struggle of

2218
02:08:47,100 --> 02:08:50,970
the Black Panther Party and, and,
and, and black people in general.

2219
02:08:51,990 --> 02:08:59,430
Uh, but it wasn't necessarily bringing
white people in, but it was the idea.

2220
02:09:00,030 --> 02:09:07,350
Of various communities organizing
to overcome the repression of

2221
02:09:07,350 --> 02:09:09,750
the empire at the local level.

2222
02:09:12,450 --> 02:09:16,110
So when people go see this film, when
people see Juda and Black Messiah, and I

2223
02:09:16,110 --> 02:09:20,670
know the other day we talked on the phone,
Henry, about the fact that what Hampton

2224
02:09:20,670 --> 02:09:24,090
said in that film, actually Bobby Lee
said it when he went to Uptown Chicago,

2225
02:09:24,510 --> 02:09:26,730
uh, to talk with that community, but.

2226
02:09:27,480 --> 02:09:30,450
Even given that the film was inspiring
for so many people, I mean, they told

2227
02:09:30,450 --> 02:09:35,010
the story that day that folks don't even
know about the Panther 10 point program,

2228
02:09:35,010 --> 02:09:38,790
about the health clinics, free breast
breakfast programs, all that coming up.

2229
02:09:38,790 --> 02:09:41,880
I mean, building one of the most
important coalitions, interracial

2230
02:09:41,880 --> 02:09:43,320
coalitions in our history.

2231
02:09:43,830 --> 02:09:48,120
Um, so I wonder how, given
everything we're facing today,

2232
02:09:48,600 --> 02:09:52,530
how you think that moment and that
understanding affects our world today.

2233
02:09:54,075 --> 02:09:58,545
Well, I think, I think it very
much relates to, to our world

2234
02:09:58,545 --> 02:10:02,235
today, because it seems that a lot
of the same things are happening.

2235
02:10:02,625 --> 02:10:05,865
Uh, you know, you got, certainly,
you got police suppression, you

2236
02:10:05,865 --> 02:10:09,945
know, look at what's going on,
uh, in, in, in the country today.

2237
02:10:09,945 --> 02:10:15,495
You know, the starting, you know, uh,
jury selection for, uh, George Floyd.

2238
02:10:15,585 --> 02:10:18,180
You've got all kinds
of, uh, things going on.

2239
02:10:19,185 --> 02:10:19,605
Uh, we were.

2240
02:10:20,910 --> 02:10:25,470
I, I was at an NAACP rally
and, and we got tear gassed

2241
02:10:25,470 --> 02:10:27,480
here in Huntsville, got beaten.

2242
02:10:28,140 --> 02:10:31,320
You know, uh, some of those
things are going on now.

2243
02:10:31,320 --> 02:10:34,170
They're still slum landlords,
they're still slums.

2244
02:10:34,830 --> 02:10:39,750
Uh, and there's still a lot of repression,
you know, and, and, and I think that

2245
02:10:40,290 --> 02:10:42,330
every community should stand up.

2246
02:10:42,375 --> 02:10:45,315
And, and, and fight for their community.

2247
02:10:45,315 --> 02:10:48,405
And that's what we were trying to
do, I think in the Rainbow Coalition,

2248
02:10:48,855 --> 02:10:51,045
was to fight in our own community.

2249
02:10:51,795 --> 02:10:58,635
But, you know, uh, in tandem with
the other, uh, organizations that

2250
02:10:58,635 --> 02:11:01,335
were, were around at that time.

2251
02:11:01,335 --> 02:11:07,725
And I think the Rainbow Coalition
set the example, um, people.

2252
02:11:08,430 --> 02:11:12,750
Tell me today that, you know, with the
Young Patriots, it's a blueprint for

2253
02:11:12,750 --> 02:11:14,520
what they could do and what they've done.

2254
02:11:14,970 --> 02:11:18,450
The same with, you know, the
Panthers and, and the same thing

2255
02:11:18,450 --> 02:11:20,310
with the, with the Rainbow Coalition.

2256
02:11:21,510 --> 02:11:24,040
Now, section C, the man

2257
02:11:24,260 --> 02:11:28,250
We're really, uh, putting an awful
lot of emphasis into dealing with the

2258
02:11:28,340 --> 02:11:33,200
effects of this economy upon all poor
people, our people in particular.

2259
02:11:33,860 --> 02:11:38,930
I think our movement now has to have
a dual focus, economic generation

2260
02:11:39,200 --> 02:11:43,670
and spiritual regeneration economic
generation to the extent that we have

2261
02:11:43,670 --> 02:11:45,265
more than 6 million people unemployed.

2262
02:11:46,325 --> 02:11:50,660
25 million people making less
than $3,000 a year, another 25

2263
02:11:50,660 --> 02:11:54,215
million, less than 6,000, another
25 million, less than 9,000.

2264
02:11:54,635 --> 02:11:57,935
And given the inflated economy, that
means that you have three levels

2265
02:11:57,935 --> 02:11:59,405
of real poverty in the country.

2266
02:11:59,825 --> 02:12:01,475
So that is a critical question.

2267
02:12:01,955 --> 02:12:06,635
On the other hand, we have a, a
kind of deteriorating spiritual

2268
02:12:06,635 --> 02:12:10,775
condition in the black community
where our young people are trapped.

2269
02:12:11,255 --> 02:12:15,695
Uh, pushing dope in their veins rather
than hope in their brains and pickling

2270
02:12:15,695 --> 02:12:19,775
their brains with liquor and using
all kinds of ways to escape reality.

2271
02:12:20,195 --> 02:12:24,245
It is at that level that we must be
spiritually regenerated because if we

2272
02:12:24,245 --> 02:12:28,835
have a new school and don't have the
will to learn some no avail, we got a

2273
02:12:28,835 --> 02:12:32,765
job and don't have the will to work,
or we have the opportunity and can't

2274
02:12:32,765 --> 02:12:34,655
seize it because we've tripped out.

2275
02:12:34,775 --> 02:12:34,865
Mm-hmm.

2276
02:12:35,165 --> 02:12:37,595
So there's, at that level,
we must have a dual focus.

2277
02:12:37,595 --> 02:12:38,980
I guess biblically speaking,
you would say that.

2278
02:12:39,680 --> 02:12:42,080
Man cannot live by bread alone.

2279
02:12:42,080 --> 02:12:44,990
You need the bread and
the spiritual development.

2280
02:12:45,470 --> 02:12:48,890
Uh, the question becomes how do
you break such a recession as this?

2281
02:12:49,310 --> 02:12:51,410
Number one, you point
to the weaknesses of it.

2282
02:12:51,830 --> 02:12:56,030
Uh, the inflation that we're now on is not
a consumer inspired inflation where people

2283
02:12:56,030 --> 02:13:00,680
are spent too much, but rather because
the super rich and the military budget

2284
02:13:00,680 --> 02:13:03,830
have, uh, been made into sacred cows.

2285
02:13:04,250 --> 02:13:07,670
Uh, Ford says he's going to
save $5 billion in surtax.

2286
02:13:08,210 --> 02:13:13,070
Well, the fact is the military
budget's growth is $7 billion a year.

2287
02:13:13,130 --> 02:13:15,260
Why is that $7 billion sacred?

2288
02:13:15,770 --> 02:13:18,740
You ask people making $15,000 a
year to tighten up their belt.

2289
02:13:19,250 --> 02:13:22,160
Well, they already wearing
suspenders because their real income

2290
02:13:22,160 --> 02:13:24,320
has been eaten up by inflation.

2291
02:13:24,890 --> 02:13:28,460
Then he says that if we save 20
billion from federal spending,

2292
02:13:28,880 --> 02:13:30,350
we can break stagflation.

2293
02:13:30,800 --> 02:13:35,000
Well, the Proxmire report indicates
that the military spend spent

2294
02:13:35,000 --> 02:13:37,010
beyond its appropriations last year.

2295
02:13:37,400 --> 02:13:39,050
$27 billion.

2296
02:13:39,530 --> 02:13:44,420
Now that plus the super rich not
being taxed properly and being

2297
02:13:44,420 --> 02:13:47,660
allowed to develop monopolies and
run competitions outta business.

2298
02:13:47,750 --> 02:13:49,850
That is why the economy is jammed.

2299
02:13:49,850 --> 02:13:52,400
So on the one hand, we must know that.

2300
02:13:52,460 --> 02:13:56,120
On the other hand, we must prepare
to hit these streets marching again

2301
02:13:56,120 --> 02:14:00,380
in mass January 15th this year,
which is Dr. King's birth date.

2302
02:14:00,740 --> 02:14:03,230
Uh, we are going to celebrate
it by marching in at least

2303
02:14:03,230 --> 02:14:04,585
50 cities simultaneously.

2304
02:14:05,450 --> 02:14:10,070
Marching, I might add behind the Hawkins
full employment bill, demanding that

2305
02:14:10,070 --> 02:14:13,970
once and for all that is declared in this
country, that everybody has a right to

2306
02:14:13,970 --> 02:14:16,850
a job, a decent house and medical care.

2307
02:14:17,300 --> 02:14:19,430
In my judgment, that's
where the struggle is now.

2308
02:14:19,430 --> 02:14:22,850
It's not as much civil
rights as it is civil rights.

2309
02:14:22,850 --> 02:14:22,860
Mm-hmm.

2310
02:14:23,180 --> 02:14:24,830
It's a matter of redefining the economy.

2311
02:14:24,835 --> 02:14:24,915
Mm-hmm.

2312
02:14:25,075 --> 02:14:28,370
You know, I heard, uh, him, Diane
in Chicago at, at your, at his

2313
02:14:28,370 --> 02:14:32,310
annual, uh, black expo, and, uh,
you made a very interesting, uh.

2314
02:14:33,305 --> 02:14:35,915
Parallel as you do often your three E's.

2315
02:14:36,425 --> 02:14:42,125
Well, my point is that we must be
ethnic, which is our blackness, accept

2316
02:14:42,125 --> 02:14:46,925
our African roots, our African heritage,
get all of the psychological self-esteem

2317
02:14:46,925 --> 02:14:48,395
that we need outta being black.

2318
02:14:48,695 --> 02:14:51,515
How about natural haves and
our symbols of blackness?

2319
02:14:51,545 --> 02:14:53,405
But you got to go beyond being ethnic.

2320
02:14:53,405 --> 02:14:54,935
You must also be ethical.

2321
02:14:55,475 --> 02:14:57,185
Cain and Abel were ethnic.

2322
02:14:57,185 --> 02:15:00,365
They were two brothers came out the
same mother's womb, but they were not

2323
02:15:00,365 --> 02:15:01,590
ethical and so they killed each other.

2324
02:15:02,375 --> 02:15:05,135
So in addition to being
ethnic, you must be ethical.

2325
02:15:05,345 --> 02:15:10,055
But beyond that, you must be excellent
because in the last analysis, the

2326
02:15:10,055 --> 02:15:14,045
only thing that will, uh, protect
you from genocide is to be necessary.

2327
02:15:14,045 --> 02:15:18,245
I mean, whether you are in America or
in Africa and wherever your, your life

2328
02:15:18,245 --> 02:15:21,395
chances are increased by being excellent.

2329
02:15:21,635 --> 02:15:24,995
Now, you may not survive even
if you are not excellent, but

2330
02:15:24,995 --> 02:15:28,745
you are almost guaranteed to get
wiped out if you're not excellent.

2331
02:15:28,745 --> 02:15:30,725
I mean, that which has
protected our Hank Aaron.

2332
02:15:30,755 --> 02:15:35,075
And that which protected the Willie Mays,
that which has sustained the Muhammad Ali.

2333
02:15:35,375 --> 02:15:39,035
That which has made a Ralph Bunche
go down into the Annals of Science or

2334
02:15:39,035 --> 02:15:43,805
George Washington Carver is in spite
of a racist society, uh, not liking

2335
02:15:43,805 --> 02:15:48,995
their ethnicity, their excellence was
of such until even their enemies had

2336
02:15:48,995 --> 02:15:50,795
to respect where they were coming from.

2337
02:15:51,065 --> 02:15:52,805
What do you think of
Rockefeller's vice president?

2338
02:15:53,195 --> 02:15:55,085
Well, I think it's a bad
choice for the country.

2339
02:15:55,565 --> 02:15:59,255
Uh, basically I think it's bad because
at one level there's a very delicate

2340
02:15:59,255 --> 02:16:02,945
balance of power in this country
between labor, business and government.

2341
02:16:03,395 --> 02:16:07,475
And when the man with that much
concentrated economic wealth is one

2342
02:16:07,475 --> 02:16:13,520
heartbeat away from the presidency, uh, it
destroys that balance of power, uh, beyond

2343
02:16:13,520 --> 02:16:15,485
the way he handled an Attica situation.

2344
02:16:15,785 --> 02:16:19,625
Ah, uh, which, you know, becomes
murder in my judgment, it's, it,

2345
02:16:19,625 --> 02:16:21,215
it's bad that that thing happened.

2346
02:16:21,755 --> 02:16:25,925
But even if warned, but not coming
out of our black emotional concern

2347
02:16:25,925 --> 02:16:29,975
and ethical concern for Attica, it is
not good for this government because

2348
02:16:30,005 --> 02:16:34,055
there are some places where this
government politically should not

2349
02:16:34,055 --> 02:16:36,905
be where he personally already is.

2350
02:16:37,145 --> 02:16:41,045
So there's a collision course between
the interests of the country and the

2351
02:16:41,045 --> 02:16:42,425
interest of the Rockefeller family.

2352
02:16:42,425 --> 02:16:44,615
I think that it's a bad situation.

2353
02:16:44,945 --> 02:16:48,515
How I would hasten to add,
however, that if Rockefeller.

2354
02:16:48,935 --> 02:16:50,375
And Ford have their team.

2355
02:16:50,375 --> 02:16:52,955
And if Nixon is resurrected, it is not.

2356
02:16:52,955 --> 02:16:56,315
Racism will stop us as
much as cynicism will.

2357
02:16:56,465 --> 02:17:00,965
We can overcome Rockefeller and,
and Bilbo and Maddox and all of

2358
02:17:00,965 --> 02:17:02,615
that bunch if we just don't give up.

2359
02:17:02,885 --> 02:17:06,605
And that is what kind of frames
me about this kind of cynical

2360
02:17:06,605 --> 02:17:08,735
reasoning about blacks can't make it.

2361
02:17:08,885 --> 02:17:13,895
So I contend that, uh, the system
is not good, but we can make it

2362
02:17:13,895 --> 02:17:16,805
in it if anybody can, because we
can do what other folk can do.

2363
02:17:17,255 --> 02:17:21,125
Now if we have integrity, not only
will we make it, we will change it

2364
02:17:21,785 --> 02:17:26,345
also, but I cannot accept a set of
reasons why we can't finish school.

2365
02:17:26,945 --> 02:17:30,575
A set of reasons why our track
men can't win the race, or why our

2366
02:17:30,575 --> 02:17:32,435
boxers can't win the boxing match.

2367
02:17:32,765 --> 02:17:37,145
We can accept no reason we, we
have fought racism because we never

2368
02:17:37,145 --> 02:17:39,215
allowed cynicism to overtake us.

2369
02:17:39,275 --> 02:17:42,545
I think when one looks at, uh, the
struggles you've had with this show,

2370
02:17:42,755 --> 02:17:44,765
I mean racism has tried to jam you.

2371
02:17:45,185 --> 02:17:50,525
But if you had moved and become cynical,
then even if racism had moved, you

2372
02:17:50,525 --> 02:17:52,055
still couldn't have conducted your show.

2373
02:17:52,055 --> 02:17:52,145
Mm-hmm.

2374
02:17:52,385 --> 02:17:55,625
I had a little slogan once, uh, I
asked some of my students, if racism

2375
02:17:55,625 --> 02:17:57,005
quit, could you take advantage of it?

2376
02:17:57,305 --> 02:17:59,165
Oh, that's, that's the
fundamental proposition.

2377
02:17:59,195 --> 02:18:00,845
Uhhuh, I mean, that's
the case of Muhammad Ali.

2378
02:18:00,905 --> 02:18:02,105
Racism took its title.

2379
02:18:02,600 --> 02:18:04,010
But they didn't take his manhood, right?

2380
02:18:04,190 --> 02:18:07,760
And so when racism stepped out the way,
he didn't step back and the rang 300

2381
02:18:07,760 --> 02:18:12,285
pounds and slope, you know, because
he kept his head together, you know?

2382
02:18:16,040 --> 02:18:20,330
So at that level, you know, um, uh, since
preachers always develop his sayings,

2383
02:18:20,330 --> 02:18:22,580
speaking of preachers, let me
ask you a preacher question.

2384
02:18:22,610 --> 02:18:23,630
Don't you forget that stupid?

2385
02:18:23,630 --> 02:18:26,180
And I, I won't, and you called
me a frustrated preacher.

2386
02:18:26,660 --> 02:18:30,685
Uh, let me ask you the
flip, Wilson brings a whole.

2387
02:18:31,370 --> 02:18:34,970
Phenomenon in the focus, and that is the
responsibility of the black artists to

2388
02:18:34,970 --> 02:18:36,140
black people, et cetera, and so forth.

2389
02:18:36,140 --> 02:18:38,750
Now we know black artists have
to eat, et cetera and so forth.

2390
02:18:38,840 --> 02:18:42,860
And it's, it's the old run around about
how much of this can I do and how much of

2391
02:18:42,860 --> 02:18:44,960
this he's been doing, the Reverend Le Roy.

2392
02:18:44,960 --> 02:18:45,170
And

2393
02:18:45,170 --> 02:18:46,310
the question is, who are you going to eat?

2394
02:18:46,490 --> 02:18:47,240
Well, you know, any

2395
02:18:47,240 --> 02:18:47,690
opinion?

2396
02:18:47,690 --> 02:18:48,500
Let me ask you the, you

2397
02:18:48,500 --> 02:18:49,280
know, I mean, are you gonna eat?

2398
02:18:49,280 --> 02:18:49,520
That's right.

2399
02:18:49,520 --> 02:18:51,290
Are you gonna eat animals or
we're gonna eat each other?

2400
02:18:51,320 --> 02:18:51,470
Right.

2401
02:18:51,530 --> 02:18:54,650
And I think that when we make the
kind of move that he has made relative

2402
02:18:54,650 --> 02:18:59,750
to the black church, that uh, he has
moved into the area of the sacred.

2403
02:19:00,305 --> 02:19:04,385
And Jewish comedians crack a lot of funny
jokes, but it's never about the rabbi.

2404
02:19:04,775 --> 02:19:07,685
Uh, the Catholic comedians crack a lot
of jokes, but it's never about the Pope.

2405
02:19:07,685 --> 02:19:10,055
In other words, there is something sacred.

2406
02:19:10,055 --> 02:19:12,785
I think there's a lot of
room to tell jokes and finger

2407
02:19:12,785 --> 02:19:13,895
pop and make people laugh.

2408
02:19:13,895 --> 02:19:17,435
I mean, I, I, I'm not one of the great
critics of Amos and, and because it,

2409
02:19:17,555 --> 02:19:21,275
you know, it was funny to me and, and
it didn't gimme no brain damage either.

2410
02:19:21,515 --> 02:19:25,690
But I think there's some areas that are
basically sacred and I think that, uh.

2411
02:19:26,480 --> 02:19:29,420
A group of ministers, we are going
to meet with that brother and try to

2412
02:19:29,420 --> 02:19:33,200
arrive at some understanding because
on the one hand, we don't want to, uh,

2413
02:19:34,340 --> 02:19:36,200
you know, we don't wanna undercut him

2414
02:19:36,200 --> 02:19:38,570
because this meeting is not taking
place in a dark alley, I hope.

2415
02:19:38,570 --> 02:19:39,500
Oh, no, no, no.

2416
02:19:39,710 --> 02:19:40,190
Friendly.

2417
02:19:40,190 --> 02:19:40,730
But we know how you

2418
02:19:40,730 --> 02:19:41,000
map

2419
02:19:41,090 --> 02:19:41,660
preachers meeting.

2420
02:19:41,660 --> 02:19:42,560
No, we're not gonna meet.

2421
02:19:42,740 --> 02:19:43,310
I tell you why.

2422
02:19:43,310 --> 02:19:47,720
Because on the one hand I respect flip
because he has done a lot for our cause.

2423
02:19:47,720 --> 02:19:49,730
He has done a lot of
benefits and he's tried her.

2424
02:19:50,000 --> 02:19:52,970
He put a lot of black folk on
that show who otherwise never

2425
02:19:52,970 --> 02:19:53,510
would've been on Televis.

2426
02:19:53,645 --> 02:19:55,760
But he says, he says his, that
his portrayal of Reverend Le

2427
02:19:55,760 --> 02:19:58,820
Roy does not in any way damage
the image of black preachers.

2428
02:19:58,850 --> 02:20:02,510
Well, you see, we disagree and that's
why we have to have a meeting, you know,

2429
02:20:02,540 --> 02:20:04,550
but not a meeting based in hostility.

2430
02:20:04,910 --> 02:20:08,120
But when we have differences, we
must reconcile our differences

2431
02:20:08,540 --> 02:20:11,930
through dialogue and lack civilized
people in the final analysis.

2432
02:20:12,050 --> 02:20:15,260
It will not hurt us because that which
he's portraying is not the truth.

2433
02:20:15,500 --> 02:20:16,280
It won't hurt preachers.

2434
02:20:16,820 --> 02:20:19,250
But it may hurt our children
who don't know any better.

2435
02:20:19,400 --> 02:20:23,420
Somebody needs to know the first piece
of property bought in America by blacks

2436
02:20:23,420 --> 02:20:26,570
was bought by the black church that
the first black bank, first black

2437
02:20:26,570 --> 02:20:30,590
insurance company, first Black College,
Wilberforce University Black Church.

2438
02:20:30,830 --> 02:20:33,230
We talk about the Harriet Tubman
and Underground Railroad, the black

2439
02:20:33,230 --> 02:20:34,430
church with the railway station.

2440
02:20:34,730 --> 02:20:37,280
We talk about Denmark Vesey
being hung in South Carolina.

2441
02:20:37,610 --> 02:20:40,370
The A ME Church also was put
out of South Carolina because

2442
02:20:40,580 --> 02:20:41,570
that was his headquarters.

2443
02:20:41,945 --> 02:20:45,560
We talk about the civil rights legislation
that was led by Adam Powell and Dr.

2444
02:20:45,560 --> 02:20:45,845
King.

2445
02:20:46,055 --> 02:20:47,045
These were black preachers.

2446
02:20:47,045 --> 02:20:50,855
And so if our black children get
trapped thinking that the black

2447
02:20:50,855 --> 02:20:54,155
preacher is Reverend Leroy and
thinking the Black pimp is some kind

2448
02:20:54,155 --> 02:20:56,195
of hero, it reverses their psyche.

2449
02:20:56,375 --> 02:20:59,345
So what he is doing, it may
appear to be funny, but it's

2450
02:20:59,345 --> 02:21:00,965
more dangerous than it is funny.

2451
02:21:01,325 --> 02:21:02,795
So we need to discuss this.

2452
02:21:02,795 --> 02:21:05,585
I'm not even sure he understands
this history, all the

2453
02:21:05,585 --> 02:21:07,175
ramifications of his actions.

2454
02:21:07,355 --> 02:21:10,355
So I would not suggest that we
need to get nasty and hostile.

2455
02:21:10,640 --> 02:21:15,410
And try to jam him relative to NBC,
but to appeal to him, to reason.

2456
02:21:15,650 --> 02:21:17,750
Just like I, I may do
something that's outta line.

2457
02:21:17,750 --> 02:21:20,390
I'm on TV and rapping
and talking into stuff.

2458
02:21:20,480 --> 02:21:24,200
I would hope that you would have
the capacity to come to me as a

2459
02:21:24,200 --> 02:21:27,200
rational concern, brother or sister,

2460
02:21:27,250 --> 02:21:31,120
Jesse Jackson is the, one of the
biggest reasons Obama could have won

2461
02:21:31,120 --> 02:21:36,670
in oh eight because his, his run, his
campaign in 88, after it was done and

2462
02:21:36,670 --> 02:21:39,670
Dukakis needed to bring his supporters
into the fold, the trade Jesse

2463
02:21:39,670 --> 02:21:43,120
made was okay, but you guys have to
change the way that you do primaries.

2464
02:21:43,120 --> 02:21:45,580
Instead of them being winner
take all, there's gotta be some

2465
02:21:45,580 --> 02:21:48,610
proportional distribution of the
delegates, which is what made it

2466
02:21:48,610 --> 02:21:50,470
possible for Obama to win in oh eight.

2467
02:21:50,500 --> 02:21:53,410
Like this isn't just a Jesse
Jackson walk, so Obama could

2468
02:21:53,410 --> 02:21:55,600
run kind of situation, right.

2469
02:21:56,095 --> 02:22:03,625
Jesse is tangibly responsible for what
happened later on top of the Jesse Rand.

2470
02:22:03,805 --> 02:22:07,075
So Jesse walked so that
Obama could run situation.

2471
02:22:08,305 --> 02:22:08,815
You have.

2472
02:22:08,815 --> 02:22:14,365
Um, I think that's all very
well said, and I think the, this

2473
02:22:14,365 --> 02:22:18,220
relates to sports in so many ways
where it's like the, the history.

2474
02:22:19,285 --> 02:22:25,345
Is always kind of like so much
colored by whether you won or lost.

2475
02:22:25,645 --> 02:22:25,825
Yes.

2476
02:22:25,825 --> 02:22:30,175
And I think there's an under
appreciation for the progress made.

2477
02:22:30,505 --> 02:22:33,475
And one of my friends from school
would say this all the time.

2478
02:22:33,475 --> 02:22:35,065
He's incredibly smart guy.

2479
02:22:35,275 --> 02:22:38,935
Uh, a lot of really
advanced, impressive degrees.

2480
02:22:39,085 --> 02:22:42,475
And he wouldn't go to class
and he wouldn't study and he

2481
02:22:42,475 --> 02:22:44,515
would get the equivalent of a b.

2482
02:22:44,875 --> 02:22:48,715
And then someone else will work their
ass off and get an A and he'd be like,

2483
02:22:48,955 --> 02:22:53,545
well, the distance I traveled this morning
to when we had the test and the grade

2484
02:22:53,545 --> 02:22:55,405
that I got was much more impressive.

2485
02:22:55,645 --> 02:22:59,995
It's not a perfect corollary to what
Jesse has done, but like the distance

2486
02:22:59,995 --> 02:23:04,435
that Jesse traveled in the environment
in which he fought the things that he

2487
02:23:04,435 --> 02:23:08,305
accomplished, like you could argue,
despite the fact that it's not gonna,

2488
02:23:08,365 --> 02:23:11,785
there's not gonna, the W for win
is not gonna be next to his name.

2489
02:23:12,175 --> 02:23:15,955
You could make the argument that
that was just as or more valuable

2490
02:23:15,955 --> 02:23:20,155
than any other, like real success
because like in a time when there's a

2491
02:23:20,155 --> 02:23:22,345
significant backlash to have somebody.

2492
02:23:22,750 --> 02:23:24,730
Who's willing to fight that backlash.

2493
02:23:24,730 --> 02:23:28,000
And of course, you're not winning the
fight against the backlash, but you

2494
02:23:28,000 --> 02:23:31,840
are giving somebody, it's the, it's
the equivalent of getting a, forcing

2495
02:23:31,840 --> 02:23:33,760
them to punt at mid midfield, right?

2496
02:23:33,760 --> 02:23:36,790
Like you're giving yourself a better
field position or you're giving

2497
02:23:36,790 --> 02:23:40,120
the next generation a better field
position than they would've otherwise.

2498
02:23:40,330 --> 02:23:44,620
But nobody is gonna write a piece
the next day of, of the game.

2499
02:23:44,620 --> 02:23:47,740
About the third down stop in the middle
of the third quarter, you're gonna

2500
02:23:47,740 --> 02:23:51,250
write the piece about the touchdown
scored on the subsequent drive and.

2501
02:23:52,170 --> 02:23:55,080
I think there's something to be
said for breaking up that pass.

2502
02:23:55,380 --> 02:23:55,560
Yeah.

2503
02:23:55,590 --> 02:23:56,670
On third and sixth,

2504
02:23:56,910 --> 02:23:59,910
I think there's also, the biggest
thing with Jesse that I think can

2505
02:23:59,910 --> 02:24:05,400
easily be lost by people who were but
so aware of him is he has been perhaps

2506
02:24:05,400 --> 02:24:11,160
the most impactful advocate for the
broader working class of America that

2507
02:24:11,160 --> 02:24:12,565
there has been, like this is not.

2508
02:24:13,795 --> 02:24:16,045
Jesse's work was not simply
the work of black people.

2509
02:24:16,045 --> 02:24:20,065
It was a broad co, like the idea
of the Rainbow Coalition was a,

2510
02:24:20,065 --> 02:24:24,295
it's, it's much more in line with
the Fred Hampton type of situation

2511
02:24:24,385 --> 02:24:26,335
or as much as anybody else, right?

2512
02:24:26,335 --> 02:24:27,955
Same Chicago sort of roots.

2513
02:24:27,955 --> 02:24:31,495
It's the very similar to the Harold
Washington Coalition in 1983 that

2514
02:24:31,495 --> 02:24:37,375
you put together, but it is working
class people of all races and stripes.

2515
02:24:37,585 --> 02:24:37,975
Right?

2516
02:24:38,125 --> 02:24:40,255
Fighting for them like
Operation Breadbasket.

2517
02:24:40,405 --> 02:24:41,095
Okay.

2518
02:24:41,095 --> 02:24:41,240
Operation Push.

2519
02:24:42,100 --> 02:24:44,800
It eventually became that Wall
Street Project, which is where

2520
02:24:44,800 --> 02:24:46,090
it got a little weird for Jesse.

2521
02:24:46,120 --> 02:24:48,550
'cause the, that that's when
you started having cronyism.

2522
02:24:49,300 --> 02:24:52,900
Uh, concerns and everything else is when
it went over there, Jesse's argument was,

2523
02:24:52,900 --> 02:24:54,490
this is the next frontier of the fight.

2524
02:24:54,490 --> 02:24:55,720
We gotta be over there too.

2525
02:24:55,870 --> 02:24:58,960
But once you go play, once you start
playing them reindeer games, right.

2526
02:24:59,230 --> 02:25:01,600
You know, it's real easy for
people to get caught up in that.

2527
02:25:01,750 --> 02:25:05,290
But the idea that Jesse was the
fighting man for the working class.

2528
02:25:05,655 --> 02:25:10,335
The 1988 campaign for Jesse Jackson is
in large part the template of the Bernie

2529
02:25:10,335 --> 02:25:12,285
Sanders campaigns that you saw later.

2530
02:25:12,405 --> 02:25:15,675
If you go back and look at what he
was talking about in 88, a lot of it

2531
02:25:15,675 --> 02:25:20,240
sticks through and he was going out and
winning like he won primaries in 88.

2532
02:25:20,965 --> 02:25:21,865
Making that happen now.

2533
02:25:21,865 --> 02:25:24,535
You know, America ain't what
it, America don't live its raps.

2534
02:25:24,655 --> 02:25:25,915
What a little sh man.

2535
02:25:26,155 --> 02:25:30,085
Um, Michael Dukakis was like this big
ain't no way in the world in America,

2536
02:25:30,085 --> 02:25:34,285
man, this big run against a man
this big and the man this big wins.

2537
02:25:34,285 --> 02:25:36,265
That's just not how we
do things ordinarily.

2538
02:25:36,265 --> 02:25:36,595
Right.

2539
02:25:36,625 --> 02:25:36,685
Yeah.

2540
02:25:36,715 --> 02:25:38,435
That like basically longer the short.

2541
02:25:39,295 --> 02:25:41,515
Being white is like being a
foot taller than you really are.

2542
02:25:44,425 --> 02:25:44,785
Yeah.

2543
02:25:45,250 --> 02:25:51,115
The ju the impact, and I, I, so the funny
thing is when you get older and, and read

2544
02:25:51,115 --> 02:25:56,905
and learn more about it, like, I feel like
growing up the Rainbow Coalition and Jesse

2545
02:25:56,905 --> 02:25:59,995
Jackson's run was almost kind of a joke.

2546
02:26:00,775 --> 02:26:02,485
And I didn't really like,
it was a joke for me.

2547
02:26:02,485 --> 02:26:07,105
Like I was born in 83, so like what I
did hear about it was like how ridiculous

2548
02:26:07,105 --> 02:26:11,545
and absurd it was and the idea that a
black person could ever be president

2549
02:26:11,695 --> 02:26:14,755
and how Jesse, and that was also, we
started to learn more and more about.

2550
02:26:15,085 --> 02:26:17,185
His his off the field issues.

2551
02:26:17,185 --> 02:26:17,245
Yeah.

2552
02:26:17,275 --> 02:26:22,345
Like those, like, it, it, it all coalesced
to make that all feel like a joke.

2553
02:26:22,345 --> 02:26:25,375
And now like going back and reading
about all that stuff, like recognizing

2554
02:26:25,645 --> 02:26:30,715
the impact that he had is not something
that's gonna be the like title of,

2555
02:26:30,715 --> 02:26:32,995
uh, a chapter in a history book.

2556
02:26:32,995 --> 02:26:37,045
But the things that came afterwards
couldn't have been possible without it.

2557
02:26:37,045 --> 02:26:39,655
And it's, it's funny that we.

2558
02:26:41,050 --> 02:26:41,560
History.

2559
02:26:41,560 --> 02:26:44,500
We like to think about history
as fact, but it is like SI mean,

2560
02:26:44,500 --> 02:26:48,910
it is fact, but it's selected
stories and we select people.

2561
02:26:48,910 --> 02:26:52,480
And the choices that were made
around Jesse Jackson and the prices

2562
02:26:52,480 --> 02:26:56,800
that he paid for his, um, issues
is inconsistent with the way that

2563
02:26:56,800 --> 02:26:58,840
we treat just about anybody else.

2564
02:26:58,840 --> 02:27:00,610
'cause nobody, I mean.

2565
02:27:01,165 --> 02:27:05,155
Nobody really feels perfect, like Obama
don't got nothing on it, on his jacket.

2566
02:27:05,275 --> 02:27:08,605
Everybody else got something
pretty significant on their jacket.

2567
02:27:08,755 --> 02:27:08,935
Yeah.

2568
02:27:08,935 --> 02:27:09,385
Obama.

2569
02:27:09,385 --> 02:27:12,205
Obama was thinking Obama
started playing the law game.

2570
02:27:12,235 --> 02:27:12,475
Yeah.

2571
02:27:12,715 --> 02:27:14,215
Before anybody else, like, yeah.

2572
02:27:14,215 --> 02:27:14,225
Yeah.

2573
02:27:14,275 --> 02:27:16,795
Let me tell you who was not about
to get caught up sleeping with

2574
02:27:16,795 --> 02:27:18,145
his wife's sister at the office.

2575
02:27:19,075 --> 02:27:19,705
Oh, hell no.

2576
02:27:20,785 --> 02:27:20,995
No.

2577
02:27:21,205 --> 02:27:23,335
Obama's not getting anywhere near that.

2578
02:27:23,395 --> 02:27:26,150
I, I am going to point this out, by
the way, 'cause if you haven't seen it.

2579
02:27:26,650 --> 02:27:30,880
This is the funniest thing to happen
after, um, after Jesse Jackson

2580
02:27:31,060 --> 02:27:33,550
died the most incredible statement.

2581
02:27:34,270 --> 02:27:37,990
I provided office space for him and
his Rainbow Coalition for years in

2582
02:27:37,990 --> 02:27:39,700
the Trump building at 40 Wall Street.

2583
02:27:40,000 --> 02:27:44,770
Responded to his request for help in
getting criminal justice reform passed

2584
02:27:44,920 --> 02:27:49,690
and signed when no other president
would even try single handedly pushed

2585
02:27:49,690 --> 02:27:53,020
along and passed long-term funding
for historically black colleges and

2586
02:27:53,020 --> 02:27:57,730
universities, which Jesse loved, but
also, which other presidents would not do.

2587
02:27:58,285 --> 02:28:03,025
Fondant to Jesse's support for Opportunity
Zones, the single most successful economic

2588
02:28:03,025 --> 02:28:06,985
development package yet approved for black
business men and women, and much more.

2589
02:28:07,105 --> 02:28:12,565
I am fascinated by the idea that Trump's
people were ready for this, right?

2590
02:28:12,805 --> 02:28:15,445
They were like the last thing
anybody had on their Bingo

2591
02:28:15,445 --> 02:28:17,785
card is, yeah, positive state.

2592
02:28:17,790 --> 02:28:20,995
They tried to act like Black History
Month ain't going on, and Trump was

2593
02:28:20,995 --> 02:28:24,970
like, nah, that Jesse dude is all
right with me, but hold on, hold on.

2594
02:28:25,575 --> 02:28:26,475
Excuse me, he hit it.

2595
02:28:27,255 --> 02:28:29,505
Jesse was a force of nature.

2596
02:28:29,715 --> 02:28:34,605
Like few others before him, he
had much to do with the election

2597
02:28:34,725 --> 02:28:36,825
without acknowledgement or credit.

2598
02:28:37,065 --> 02:28:41,865
A Barack Hussein Obama, a man
who Jesse could not stand.

2599
02:28:42,465 --> 02:28:46,725
He loved his family greatly, and to
them, I send my deepest sympathies

2600
02:28:46,725 --> 02:28:49,005
and condolences, Jesse will be missed.

2601
02:28:49,095 --> 02:28:51,555
And the thing about that last party is.

2602
02:28:53,545 --> 02:28:55,375
Not what Lie was told,

2603
02:28:57,445 --> 02:29:01,975
um, auto Root for the team, but
that was one hell of a play.

2604
02:29:03,385 --> 02:29:04,615
It was one hell of a play.

2605
02:29:04,735 --> 02:29:07,705
Like it was just, it was
the, the surprise of it.

2606
02:29:07,705 --> 02:29:11,350
And then like the accuracy and
execution, because like there's.

2607
02:29:12,565 --> 02:29:18,595
Trump has not written, uh, or put out
a, like a respectful eulogy of anybody.

2608
02:29:18,745 --> 02:29:19,315
No.

2609
02:29:19,405 --> 02:29:21,385
Like he burns everybody.

2610
02:29:21,385 --> 02:29:25,465
Even people that were like, oh, like I
feel like the, he went after McCain like

2611
02:29:25,465 --> 02:29:27,565
this on, yes, he's on your side, man.

2612
02:29:28,105 --> 02:29:33,175
And in this case, the shock that it
was like a favorable one combined

2613
02:29:33,355 --> 02:29:35,395
with the slights at the end.

2614
02:29:36,685 --> 02:29:38,065
It's a well executed play man.

2615
02:29:38,065 --> 02:29:39,385
It's well designed, well executed.

2616
02:29:39,625 --> 02:29:41,500
He hates Obama so much.

2617
02:29:42,565 --> 02:29:47,545
It is so dedicated to Haiti,
Obama that he was, he, he wasn't

2618
02:29:47,545 --> 02:29:49,945
missing any opportunity, right?

2619
02:29:49,945 --> 02:29:50,005
Yeah.

2620
02:29:50,005 --> 02:29:52,165
He was like, oh, this is a perfect time.

2621
02:29:52,255 --> 02:29:56,545
And I will note, I hope Obama's
people, I, when he put that out, I

2622
02:29:56,545 --> 02:30:01,070
was like, oh boy, Obama better step to
the plate because you, you can't, you

2623
02:30:01,120 --> 02:30:04,070
can't let Trump outdo you now, dog.

2624
02:30:04,580 --> 02:30:05,830
It's not an option.

2625
02:30:05,965 --> 02:30:08,785
And by the way, he just
set a fairly high bar.

2626
02:30:10,180 --> 02:30:13,750
Any preemptively cut off any credit
that you was going to give him?

2627
02:30:14,110 --> 02:30:14,320
Yes.

2628
02:30:14,320 --> 02:30:16,480
Like you ain't give him no
credit before, essentially.

2629
02:30:16,480 --> 02:30:17,860
Like he ain't even like you.

2630
02:30:19,210 --> 02:30:19,450
Ooh.

2631
02:30:19,510 --> 02:30:20,770
And you didn't like him

2632
02:30:21,100 --> 02:30:22,810
dirty, move dirty,

2633
02:30:23,110 --> 02:30:23,380
man.

2634
02:30:23,380 --> 02:30:27,520
And that that was, I mean, I will
say though, I will never forget

2635
02:30:27,520 --> 02:30:28,900
in oh eight watching Jesse, who.

2636
02:30:30,295 --> 02:30:32,485
Like I say, them, them
two men had their issues.

2637
02:30:32,725 --> 02:30:33,115
Right.

2638
02:30:33,715 --> 02:30:38,155
It's, it's very, it's a very similar
situation to like Jordan and Isiah Thomas

2639
02:30:38,155 --> 02:30:39,865
fighting for the soul of Chicago, right?

2640
02:30:39,865 --> 02:30:39,925
Yeah.

2641
02:30:39,925 --> 02:30:44,095
Like, like it, Isaiah being like, yo, I
made it so that Mike Alt these streets.

2642
02:30:44,215 --> 02:30:44,425
Perfect.

2643
02:30:44,425 --> 02:30:45,895
And Mike, don't gimme no credit, right.

2644
02:30:46,945 --> 02:30:48,265
Very similar, right?

2645
02:30:48,535 --> 02:30:49,525
Yeah, it's a perfect analogy.

2646
02:30:49,525 --> 02:30:55,195
I think that your, your point is like
Obama was like much more of the, I

2647
02:30:55,195 --> 02:30:58,135
don't wanna say Dr. King because Dr.
King was different, but like Obama

2648
02:30:58,135 --> 02:31:03,715
was, grew up in a world and separate
from the experience that Jesse had.

2649
02:31:03,715 --> 02:31:03,805
Yes.

2650
02:31:03,805 --> 02:31:08,065
Like Jesse Jackson had a much more,
like, I guess stereotypical, uh, might

2651
02:31:08,065 --> 02:31:13,285
be the word, like stereo, stereotypical
like, um, challenging black upbringing.

2652
02:31:14,065 --> 02:31:15,145
That wasn't, yeah,

2653
02:31:15,145 --> 02:31:17,170
and this motherfucker ain't
said thank you one time.

2654
02:31:18,370 --> 02:31:22,390
That's like, that's, that's,
that's Jesse's situation, right?

2655
02:31:22,390 --> 02:31:25,510
It is like, and he's not the
only person who feels this way.

2656
02:31:25,780 --> 02:31:27,730
He's like, he say Thank
you to me one time.

2657
02:31:27,820 --> 02:31:28,900
Obama's people.

2658
02:31:28,960 --> 02:31:31,090
Hey man, y'all better get
that statement cracking.

2659
02:31:31,090 --> 02:31:31,630
Hey, hey, hey.

2660
02:31:31,630 --> 02:31:33,420
You might wanna, nah,
not one of your Harvard.

2661
02:31:33,730 --> 02:31:34,290
Like if it was me.

2662
02:31:34,290 --> 02:31:34,640
Yeah.

2663
02:31:34,670 --> 02:31:35,830
Not one of your Harvard pots.

2664
02:31:35,835 --> 02:31:36,055
Nah.

2665
02:31:36,720 --> 02:31:37,050
Nah.

2666
02:31:37,080 --> 02:31:37,470
Like,

2667
02:31:37,620 --> 02:31:37,860
nah,

2668
02:31:37,980 --> 02:31:40,170
you need to, you need to, you need
to get on the phone with somebody

2669
02:31:40,170 --> 02:31:44,285
you ain't talked to in a while and,
and, and get, and get, got crank out.

2670
02:31:44,610 --> 02:31:45,390
Got on your team.

2671
02:31:45,810 --> 02:31:48,870
You and I both, we read that
from Trump and we're like, yo,

2672
02:31:48,960 --> 02:31:50,550
I can't believe this happened.

2673
02:31:50,905 --> 02:31:52,325
Oh, it was tough.

2674
02:31:52,425 --> 02:31:55,165
You can't, it is a, it is a
tough comeback from that one man.

2675
02:31:55,470 --> 02:31:59,670
Going back to in Chicago, king
talks about how surprised he was

2676
02:31:59,970 --> 02:32:02,880
at the ferocity of the whites.

2677
02:32:03,390 --> 02:32:04,350
Chicago is up.

2678
02:32:06,555 --> 02:32:11,805
A city of ethnic enclaves, 70 some
cities within the city, and people

2679
02:32:11,805 --> 02:32:17,535
fiercely guard the neighborhood
turf and, uh, various ethnic groups,

2680
02:32:17,595 --> 02:32:23,865
European ethnic groups have certain
territories as Latinos and blacks and,

2681
02:32:23,865 --> 02:32:26,925
and Russians, and Germans and all that.

2682
02:32:27,705 --> 02:32:30,635
So we started marching west of Halsted.

2683
02:32:31,695 --> 02:32:35,415
This was invading their territory
and then seeing blacks in

2684
02:32:35,415 --> 02:32:36,945
the most stereotypical terms.

2685
02:32:36,945 --> 02:32:43,335
When we come, pain comes, community
disintegration comes and, and there

2686
02:32:43,335 --> 02:32:48,645
was a reaction to us just as the people
stereotypes, and so we began to march

2687
02:32:48,885 --> 02:32:53,625
for the right of open housing and we
would have a black and a white go to.

2688
02:32:54,525 --> 02:32:55,875
Uh, rent a house.

2689
02:32:55,875 --> 02:32:58,335
They to tell the black and no
room available, white come right

2690
02:32:58,335 --> 02:32:59,865
back and get room available.

2691
02:33:00,165 --> 02:33:03,705
So we, we had to break
down, uh, house by house.

2692
02:33:03,975 --> 02:33:07,695
And then they had the real estate guys,
they, what they call block busting.

2693
02:33:08,475 --> 02:33:12,195
Uh, once the block moved in on the
block till otherwise they, they, they're

2694
02:33:12,195 --> 02:33:14,175
coming and, and jacked the price.

2695
02:33:14,595 --> 02:33:16,395
So it really was not just the.

2696
02:33:18,045 --> 02:33:21,435
Crowd throwing the
rocks, which is obvious.

2697
02:33:22,125 --> 02:33:24,855
The real estate brokers
were behind that deal.

2698
02:33:24,855 --> 02:33:26,330
And the bankers, bankers were not.

2699
02:33:26,475 --> 02:33:32,055
Bankers were on to lend money to buy
a house or forbid in certain areas.

2700
02:33:32,055 --> 02:33:33,555
So the bankers had a role in this.

2701
02:33:33,885 --> 02:33:38,055
Their hands were hid, the real estate,
brokers leading the blockbuster,

2702
02:33:38,055 --> 02:33:39,315
and they had a role of play in this.

2703
02:33:39,585 --> 02:33:40,845
So the kids turned rocks.

2704
02:33:40,965 --> 02:33:43,185
They were make, they maybe
in the third or fourth layer.

2705
02:33:43,920 --> 02:33:44,700
Of resistance.

2706
02:33:44,730 --> 02:33:47,550
What about King when he moved in
with his family to the projects?

2707
02:33:48,450 --> 02:33:48,660
Yeah.

2708
02:33:48,660 --> 02:33:49,860
On the, on the west side.

2709
02:33:49,860 --> 02:33:54,720
He moved, he moved into a, just to
prove when he moved into that, uh,

2710
02:33:54,720 --> 02:34:00,600
apartment, it was to put a focus on the
fact that you had, people had to pay

2711
02:34:00,600 --> 02:34:05,670
rent, didn't have heat, had to pay rent,
maybe didn't have running water, had

2712
02:34:05,670 --> 02:34:08,400
to pay rent, lead paint on the walls.

2713
02:34:08,400 --> 02:34:08,790
I mean.

2714
02:34:09,150 --> 02:34:13,740
And so by moving the middle of the
community, put, put a global focus.

2715
02:34:13,740 --> 02:34:19,530
In other words, he had this, the,
the strategic sense to put light in

2716
02:34:19,530 --> 02:34:23,310
dark places, a heating cold place.

2717
02:34:23,310 --> 02:34:26,100
He knew that by his corner
it illuminated the situation.

2718
02:34:26,100 --> 02:34:29,880
You could say, oh man, he would say
the most difficult part of the movement

2719
02:34:29,880 --> 02:34:34,980
when you, when you, when you leave
the excitement of a march in Selma,

2720
02:34:34,980 --> 02:34:37,920
where has even violent reaction.

2721
02:34:38,550 --> 02:34:40,080
That's not the difficult part.

2722
02:34:40,230 --> 02:34:43,080
The difficult part is that when
all that's over, you got to get

2723
02:34:43,080 --> 02:34:45,780
people to register and vote.

2724
02:34:45,810 --> 02:34:49,950
The slowly, because the slow, non-romantic
dimension when the lights are not there.

2725
02:34:50,520 --> 02:34:55,980
The hardcore organized, convincing
people to change their minds,

2726
02:34:55,980 --> 02:34:57,330
to change their situation.

2727
02:34:57,420 --> 02:35:01,980
'cause at the end of the day, change
comes and people change their minds.

2728
02:35:02,580 --> 02:35:04,380
Most people who are under occupation.

2729
02:35:06,870 --> 02:35:08,985
Those backs are against the wall.

2730
02:35:10,155 --> 02:35:13,245
They have three options and that's
why it's so difficult to organize is

2731
02:35:13,245 --> 02:35:18,075
without understanding this, most people
are just, they have found their place,

2732
02:35:18,075 --> 02:35:22,215
they've found their space where they
live, where they can live, where they

2733
02:35:22,215 --> 02:35:25,905
grocery shop, where they go to school,
where they go to church, where they

2734
02:35:25,905 --> 02:35:30,825
get married, they live in the circle
and they've adjusted to, they, they,

2735
02:35:30,825 --> 02:35:33,555
they, they blank the outside world away.

2736
02:35:34,305 --> 02:35:38,115
So if you are in, in, in the building
now you, you paying pension funds,

2737
02:35:38,835 --> 02:35:41,925
uh, and, and the pension funds are
building the other side of town.

2738
02:35:41,925 --> 02:35:45,855
They're building the big, tall buildings,
but you just forget that, uh, you, you

2739
02:35:45,855 --> 02:35:49,755
are living in, in conditions where you
live there, but you don't control the

2740
02:35:49,755 --> 02:35:51,585
economic resources, but you've adjusted.

2741
02:35:52,485 --> 02:35:57,780
Uh, and some people beyond,
they resent, they know better.

2742
02:36:00,015 --> 02:36:02,895
They don't feel empowered enough
to change anything, so they

2743
02:36:02,895 --> 02:36:04,755
have a often become very bitter.

2744
02:36:04,815 --> 02:36:08,625
They, they, they, they, they,
they not adjusted, they resent.

2745
02:36:09,525 --> 02:36:11,745
And then there's the third
dimension call resistance.

2746
02:36:12,465 --> 02:36:15,435
That's where the action comes
in, where you know only,

2747
02:36:15,495 --> 02:36:16,995
where you become maladjusted.

2748
02:36:16,995 --> 02:36:17,835
Dr. King would say.

2749
02:36:18,900 --> 02:36:21,690
And you resent, but you
also begin to resist.

2750
02:36:21,720 --> 02:36:26,010
Resisting means some kind of
boycott, some kind of action.

2751
02:36:26,425 --> 02:36:34,830
The, the weapons we use, uh, one, uh,
defective use of one's vote, one's dollar

2752
02:36:37,050 --> 02:36:39,780
Coalition, uh, uh.

2753
02:36:40,425 --> 02:36:42,405
Action and to be morally right.

2754
02:36:42,435 --> 02:36:46,035
Those are the weapons that you
use because at the end of the

2755
02:36:46,035 --> 02:36:49,575
day, our, our biggest weapons to
be is to be mostly morally right.

2756
02:36:50,445 --> 02:36:53,625
Mrs. Mrs. Parks were mostly right.

2757
02:36:54,645 --> 02:36:55,815
Those are March in Birmingham.

2758
02:36:55,815 --> 02:36:57,585
Were mostly right.

2759
02:36:58,425 --> 02:36:58,965
Those are March.

2760
02:36:58,965 --> 02:36:59,535
Were right to vote.

2761
02:36:59,535 --> 02:37:01,395
Were mostly morally right.

2762
02:37:01,545 --> 02:37:04,155
We couldn't impose wrong on anybody.

2763
02:37:04,725 --> 02:37:07,905
We had, in fact, to assert the rightness
of our cause and the righteousness

2764
02:37:07,905 --> 02:37:11,865
of our cause, and we, and we willing
to suffer and sacrifice that in.

2765
02:37:12,405 --> 02:37:16,455
And non-violence is both a, um,
a strategy and a way of life.

2766
02:37:16,485 --> 02:37:20,505
If we had been fighting with arms,
we couldn't have battle in arms.

2767
02:37:21,105 --> 02:37:23,625
But then Dr. King said, if,
if you shoot and you get shot,

2768
02:37:23,715 --> 02:37:24,765
then there are no winners.

2769
02:37:25,365 --> 02:37:29,745
But if you can, if you can have change
without shooting, getting shot, then

2770
02:37:29,745 --> 02:37:31,545
both can survive for another day.

2771
02:37:32,055 --> 02:37:33,825
You've already talked
about the assassination.

2772
02:37:34,380 --> 02:37:36,780
You went home to Chicago right afterwards.

2773
02:37:36,960 --> 02:37:38,190
Could you talk about the rioting?

2774
02:37:39,030 --> 02:37:40,110
I woke up the next morning,

2775
02:37:42,300 --> 02:37:45,240
Chuck per was starting to go with
me, so Perche to come by the house.

2776
02:37:45,270 --> 02:37:48,240
I was still landed with my clothes
on and went down to City Hall.

2777
02:37:49,140 --> 02:37:50,130
I was so angry.

2778
02:37:52,710 --> 02:37:55,110
'cause the same force was
so hostile toward him.

2779
02:37:55,320 --> 02:37:59,250
Some of the ministers and political
leaders that they, the forces

2780
02:37:59,250 --> 02:38:00,420
that say he should get outta town.

2781
02:38:00,420 --> 02:38:02,340
He had no place in Chicago.

2782
02:38:03,750 --> 02:38:07,350
They were having, having the drapes,
the purple and grip, purple and

2783
02:38:07,350 --> 02:38:09,660
black drapes, and I was mad as hell.

2784
02:38:10,860 --> 02:38:13,140
So you guys sit here as hypocrites?

2785
02:38:13,170 --> 02:38:14,010
I could not.

2786
02:38:14,160 --> 02:38:18,120
I was trying to control my
anguish with discipline.

2787
02:38:18,120 --> 02:38:21,300
It was hard to do, and
I left that afternoon.

2788
02:38:21,300 --> 02:38:23,670
I'm back to Atlanta,
but I came home first.

2789
02:38:24,570 --> 02:38:26,490
But there were explosions
all over the country.

2790
02:38:27,405 --> 02:38:29,295
We were trying to D turn.

2791
02:38:29,300 --> 02:38:31,935
You know, you turn garbage into energy.

2792
02:38:32,385 --> 02:38:33,735
Energy if you can discipline it.

2793
02:38:34,365 --> 02:38:37,785
So our point was don't just
burn up where you live.

2794
02:38:39,405 --> 02:38:41,745
There's some of the areas were
burned out, are still burned

2795
02:38:41,745 --> 02:38:44,835
out these many years later.

2796
02:38:45,855 --> 02:38:47,865
Turn your anger into votes.

2797
02:38:49,035 --> 02:38:51,195
You should turn your anger into boycotts.

2798
02:38:51,195 --> 02:38:55,155
Turn your anger into opening
school doors or to close.

2799
02:38:56,025 --> 02:38:56,925
Because if you

2800
02:38:58,935 --> 02:39:04,515
spend more than you have, you get in
debt and you vote less than you have.

2801
02:39:04,905 --> 02:39:07,245
That's a formula for suicide.

2802
02:39:08,085 --> 02:39:13,545
If you, if you spend less than you
have and vote all you can, that's

2803
02:39:13,545 --> 02:39:15,855
a formula for power is Chicago.

2804
02:39:15,855 --> 02:39:20,775
This is not Selma or
Birmingham or uh, or Atlanta.

2805
02:39:20,775 --> 02:39:21,435
This is Chicago.

2806
02:39:21,465 --> 02:39:24,135
And so we had to figure our
way out, how to navigate.

2807
02:39:25,200 --> 02:39:29,550
Through this urban situation
and build coalition.

2808
02:39:29,550 --> 02:39:33,300
That's why I say that the weapons are,
you have to have the right to vote.

2809
02:39:34,590 --> 02:39:41,070
You have to right use of your dollars,
be coalitions, act and be most and more

2810
02:39:41,070 --> 02:39:44,130
in the right to all that stuff has to
come together to make something happen.

2811
02:39:44,880 --> 02:39:46,500
But he, doctor, he warned us of this.

2812
02:39:46,500 --> 02:39:49,980
He said, you'll have these forward
movements forward and then field would

2813
02:39:49,980 --> 02:39:52,860
sit in and the reaction would sit in, um.

2814
02:39:53,805 --> 02:39:59,145
You plant two seeds in the ground
of equal strength and you water them

2815
02:39:59,145 --> 02:40:00,975
both, but you put a wall between them.

2816
02:40:01,665 --> 02:40:03,495
One will grow tall with
multiples of fruit.

2817
02:40:04,005 --> 02:40:07,365
One will be short and stunted
does not mean the smallest is

2818
02:40:07,365 --> 02:40:10,605
less than the other is more than
something called photosynthesis.

2819
02:40:10,995 --> 02:40:14,865
One had the light could flourish,
and whites often have the light

2820
02:40:15,015 --> 02:40:17,805
and they flourish not because
they're better because they have

2821
02:40:17,805 --> 02:40:20,265
photosynthesis or to pull another way.

2822
02:40:20,745 --> 02:40:22,575
You have a wall between you.

2823
02:40:23,325 --> 02:40:28,650
And, and on the other side of the wall is
ignorance, uh, fear, hatred, and violence.

2824
02:40:28,710 --> 02:40:30,510
So you pull the walls and
we can see each other.

2825
02:40:31,020 --> 02:40:34,770
We become teammates, uh,
in, on the football field.

2826
02:40:34,770 --> 02:40:36,510
We become teammates in the army.

2827
02:40:36,570 --> 02:40:40,500
We want to become teammates in voting
for healthcare and jobs and justice.

2828
02:40:40,650 --> 02:40:41,310
That's what I do.

2829
02:40:41,550 --> 02:40:43,170
That's why we choose britches over walls.

2830
02:40:44,820 --> 02:40:49,170
You know, Reverend Jackson, you know, like
all of us is a really complicated person.

2831
02:40:49,410 --> 02:40:53,400
Um, there are flaws, there are
things that people have criticized

2832
02:40:53,400 --> 02:40:55,170
and things in his personal life.

2833
02:40:55,350 --> 02:40:58,020
There are flaws then, and he had them.

2834
02:40:58,080 --> 02:41:03,300
Certainly, I think when I look at the
overall assessment, I have to say yes.

2835
02:41:03,300 --> 02:41:07,530
There were things that he did that, you
know, made other people, made people

2836
02:41:07,530 --> 02:41:09,960
uncomfortable, things that were not.

2837
02:41:10,245 --> 02:41:16,245
Particularly flattering to him, but
when you assess the whole person, he is

2838
02:41:16,245 --> 02:41:19,335
someone who opened doors for other people.

2839
02:41:19,335 --> 02:41:21,225
He's someone who gave people confidence.

2840
02:41:21,225 --> 02:41:26,355
He changed the way the Democratic
party counted delegates that

2841
02:41:26,355 --> 02:41:29,145
opened the door for Barack Obama.

2842
02:41:29,145 --> 02:41:34,395
So yes, on On Balance, he's a person
who was a visionary who made a huge

2843
02:41:34,395 --> 02:41:36,825
difference, but he definitely had flaws.

2844
02:41:36,825 --> 02:41:39,540
You can't ignore that when you're
looking at at the whole man.

2845
02:41:40,260 --> 02:41:43,980
Interestingly enough, president Trump
actually released the statement praising

2846
02:41:43,980 --> 02:41:45,870
Jesse Jackson as a force of nature.

2847
02:41:46,380 --> 02:41:50,610
He noted that he provided office space
to the Rainbow Coalition, worked with

2848
02:41:50,760 --> 02:41:54,870
Reverend Jackson criminal Justice Reform,
which is true long-term HBCU funding,

2849
02:41:54,870 --> 02:41:58,770
which is true Opportunity Zones that
was in his first term, and also asserted

2850
02:41:58,770 --> 02:41:59,725
that Jackson helped pave the way.

2851
02:42:00,370 --> 02:42:04,630
For Obama's election, could you
just say more about how he paved

2852
02:42:04,630 --> 02:42:05,800
the way for Obama's election?

2853
02:42:05,830 --> 02:42:09,130
Well, I think, you know, we have
to mention Ron Brown here and Ron

2854
02:42:09,130 --> 02:42:13,930
Brown was a chair of the Democratic
National Committee and was very

2855
02:42:13,930 --> 02:42:16,240
much an ally of Reverend Jackson's.

2856
02:42:16,240 --> 02:42:21,490
And at that point, uh, primaries
were winner take all, and it was

2857
02:42:21,490 --> 02:42:25,600
really through that, you know,
sort of back room policy change.

2858
02:42:25,600 --> 02:42:25,610
Mm-hmm.

2859
02:42:26,280 --> 02:42:29,070
Primaries became proportional.

2860
02:42:29,070 --> 02:42:33,150
Your delegates became proportional
to the number of votes you

2861
02:42:33,150 --> 02:42:34,170
had gotten in the primary.

2862
02:42:34,170 --> 02:42:38,760
That was a huge change because it meant
that if you had one candidate who you

2863
02:42:38,760 --> 02:42:42,240
know, might one by 51% of the vote,
that person would've gotten all the

2864
02:42:42,240 --> 02:42:44,250
delegates to be able to divide that up.

2865
02:42:44,640 --> 02:42:47,655
Open the door, both for
Reverend Jackson to get.

2866
02:42:48,465 --> 02:42:54,015
Uh, a certain number of primary wins,
but it certainly opened the door for,

2867
02:42:54,045 --> 02:42:57,820
um, Barack Obama when he was first
running, and that when you look at.

2868
02:42:58,455 --> 02:43:02,415
W the difference that would've
been whether Barack Obama would've

2869
02:43:02,415 --> 02:43:05,745
been the nominee, or Hillary
Clinton would've been the nominee.

2870
02:43:05,745 --> 02:43:09,195
I think that policy change
made that difference.

2871
02:43:09,345 --> 02:43:12,495
We've talked about him as a civil
rights activist, and of course you,

2872
02:43:12,495 --> 02:43:16,635
we've kind of moved past the fact that
he was actually with Reverend Martin

2873
02:43:16,635 --> 02:43:18,225
Luther King Jr. When he was killed.

2874
02:43:18,225 --> 02:43:21,675
I mean, he was there in
Memphis, um, at that.

2875
02:43:22,185 --> 02:43:22,725
Motel.

2876
02:43:22,725 --> 02:43:24,975
He was one of the last
people to see him alive.

2877
02:43:25,065 --> 02:43:26,235
But so fast forward.

2878
02:43:26,505 --> 02:43:31,725
How do you position Jesse Jackson as
sort of a figure in the American story?

2879
02:43:31,815 --> 02:43:33,890
What would you say if you
were writing his biography?

2880
02:43:34,800 --> 02:43:40,410
You know that he, he is a person who was
born in the segregated Jim Crow South,

2881
02:43:41,040 --> 02:43:44,100
where black people had few rights.

2882
02:43:44,550 --> 02:43:45,750
You were a laborer.

2883
02:43:45,750 --> 02:43:50,820
You, you were not even having the
right to vote in most instances.

2884
02:43:50,910 --> 02:43:57,000
He also was a person who, because he
was born out of wedlock, was supposed

2885
02:43:57,000 --> 02:43:59,550
to feel shame, and he took that.

2886
02:43:59,895 --> 02:44:05,775
Those personal experiences, he
expanded them to look at ways

2887
02:44:05,775 --> 02:44:11,295
to involve and to engage African
Americans and other people who were

2888
02:44:11,355 --> 02:44:14,985
disenfranchised to create this coalition.

2889
02:44:15,375 --> 02:44:22,000
And I, you could see that our born in
1941, that means before World War II, that

2890
02:44:22,005 --> 02:44:24,915
he then went through the Jim Crow South.

2891
02:44:25,365 --> 02:44:31,275
Through the opening up civil rights,
um, legislation, he was able to tap

2892
02:44:31,275 --> 02:44:36,195
into that, to take advantage of that,
to be a part of what, uh, Reverend

2893
02:44:36,195 --> 02:44:38,865
Martin Luther King was embodying.

2894
02:44:39,135 --> 02:44:45,045
And then to say, we are going to have
a position on the American stage.

2895
02:44:45,045 --> 02:44:47,055
We're going to be intricately involved.

2896
02:44:47,475 --> 02:44:50,625
In politics, we're going
to be intricately involved.

2897
02:44:50,775 --> 02:44:50,865
Mm-hmm.

2898
02:44:51,105 --> 02:44:56,295
In corporate America, and we want
to have our place and our share.

2899
02:44:56,655 --> 02:45:02,265
It was a coalition, it was
diversifying, it was diversity

2900
02:45:02,715 --> 02:45:04,815
and inclusion and equality.

2901
02:45:04,815 --> 02:45:09,975
Those are things that he embodied, and
even though we are seeing a pushback

2902
02:45:09,975 --> 02:45:14,925
on that, I think that people are
going to think of him as a visionary.

2903
02:45:15,255 --> 02:45:16,965
And while some people are saying.

2904
02:45:17,505 --> 02:45:19,095
Is this the end of an era?

2905
02:45:19,665 --> 02:45:26,595
I think it is a reminder that as we
will see with the what the funeral

2906
02:45:26,595 --> 02:45:30,735
services, the memorial services,
that we will see some of these new

2907
02:45:31,125 --> 02:45:37,125
young people who are inspired by what
he represented, taking that mantle

2908
02:45:37,645 --> 02:45:40,765
and finally, section D, his legacy.

2909
02:45:41,014 --> 02:45:43,894
Are you seeing Jesse Jackson's
influence today then in, in just

2910
02:45:43,894 --> 02:45:46,894
how, uh, Democrats approach.

2911
02:45:47,539 --> 02:45:50,929
Black voter engagement and
just messaging overall today?

2912
02:45:51,169 --> 02:45:54,829
Well, I think that there is a lot
that I think current leaders can

2913
02:45:54,829 --> 02:45:59,899
learn from what he did, because I
do think that he both spoke to the

2914
02:45:59,899 --> 02:46:05,269
current situation that black people
faced, which back in the eighties was.

2915
02:46:05,889 --> 02:46:07,209
Worse than it is now.

2916
02:46:07,209 --> 02:46:07,299
Mm-hmm.

2917
02:46:08,079 --> 02:46:13,419
And he spoke to the destitution, the
sense of, um, economic abandonment.

2918
02:46:13,419 --> 02:46:14,529
Political abandonment.

2919
02:46:14,949 --> 02:46:20,709
But he also said to black Americans,
uh, you are somebody, he said to them

2920
02:46:20,709 --> 02:46:22,539
they could be more than they are.

2921
02:46:22,539 --> 02:46:26,289
He asked them to walk away
from drugs and violence.

2922
02:46:26,289 --> 02:46:30,039
He, there was, there was
both, uh, a desire to say.

2923
02:46:30,344 --> 02:46:32,924
There is a responsibility that you have.

2924
02:46:32,929 --> 02:46:32,969
Mm-hmm.

2925
02:46:33,049 --> 02:46:34,934
And then a responsibility
that we have to you.

2926
02:46:35,384 --> 02:46:36,404
So I think there's that.

2927
02:46:36,674 --> 02:46:41,804
But also what he did for black voters
is he said to them, you have power.

2928
02:46:41,864 --> 02:46:42,014
Yeah.

2929
02:46:42,074 --> 02:46:46,664
In your vote, he registered millions
of voters all across the country in a

2930
02:46:46,664 --> 02:46:48,674
massive voter registration campaign.

2931
02:46:49,064 --> 02:46:51,554
And I, I heard you talking
to the reverend earlier.

2932
02:46:51,554 --> 02:46:51,984
Yes, yes.

2933
02:46:52,434 --> 02:46:55,914
Uh, the program and, uh, she
had exactly the right analogy.

2934
02:46:56,094 --> 02:46:59,784
He gave this, uh, speech and he,
he did it in a lot of his speeches.

2935
02:46:59,784 --> 02:47:02,184
He talked about a David
and Goliath struggle.

2936
02:47:02,484 --> 02:47:04,134
The rocks just laying around.

2937
02:47:04,404 --> 02:47:06,954
Were all of the unregistered voters.

2938
02:47:06,959 --> 02:47:07,079
Uh.

2939
02:47:07,659 --> 02:47:08,259
Black voters.

2940
02:47:08,259 --> 02:47:08,319
Yeah.

2941
02:47:08,319 --> 02:47:12,459
But all voters, unregistered
voters who had not really fully

2942
02:47:12,459 --> 02:47:14,259
realized their voting power.

2943
02:47:14,589 --> 02:47:19,539
And he said, if only, uh, Dave,
David could pick up those stones,

2944
02:47:19,839 --> 02:47:21,219
uh, he could defeat Goliath.

2945
02:47:21,219 --> 02:47:24,729
And I think that empowerment was
something that was really powerful

2946
02:47:24,729 --> 02:47:26,349
for black Americans at that time.

2947
02:47:26,739 --> 02:47:29,499
Let's go back to talking about
Barack Obama because I, you know

2948
02:47:29,499 --> 02:47:30,909
what, I remember the iconic image.

2949
02:47:31,289 --> 02:47:34,709
And a lot of people remember this,
of the tears that were running down

2950
02:47:35,129 --> 02:47:36,779
Jesse Jackson's face that night.

2951
02:47:36,839 --> 02:47:37,109
Yeah.

2952
02:47:37,109 --> 02:47:41,699
When Barack Obama was elected, our
country's first black president.

2953
02:47:42,359 --> 02:47:46,139
But when, you know, when you think about
what was behind those tears, uh, you know,

2954
02:47:46,139 --> 02:47:51,119
I'm thinking about from Obama's senate
win to that presidential win a lot of.

2955
02:47:52,009 --> 02:47:52,909
Ups and downs.

2956
02:47:52,909 --> 02:47:52,969
Yeah.

2957
02:47:53,269 --> 02:47:56,479
I would say maybe in their relationship
and how things were perceived.

2958
02:47:56,899 --> 02:47:59,449
Talk more about what was really
behind those tears, you think

2959
02:47:59,449 --> 02:48:00,769
for, for Reverend Jackson.

2960
02:48:00,829 --> 02:48:01,249
Yeah.

2961
02:48:01,579 --> 02:48:09,439
I mean, well, Reverend Jackson
has been around since the 1960s.

2962
02:48:09,739 --> 02:48:16,249
He was there on the day on the site of
Martin Luther King Jr's assassination.

2963
02:48:16,249 --> 02:48:16,369
Mm-hmm.

2964
02:48:17,059 --> 02:48:19,434
And so when you think
about that journey that.

2965
02:48:20,089 --> 02:48:26,329
Journey between Dr. King's assassination
and Barack Obama's election was

2966
02:48:26,329 --> 02:48:29,449
40 years, so as someone put it
to me, that was 40 years in the

2967
02:48:29,449 --> 02:48:31,939
wilderness for our black voters.

2968
02:48:32,329 --> 02:48:38,299
And I think Reverend Jackson's tears
were not just about his relationship

2969
02:48:38,539 --> 02:48:41,689
with Barack Obama, it was also about.

2970
02:48:42,109 --> 02:48:45,109
All that he tried to achieve
personally and couldn't.

2971
02:48:45,619 --> 02:48:50,059
It was also about what Dr. King
tried to achieve and was killed

2972
02:48:50,059 --> 02:48:51,589
before he could achieve it.

2973
02:48:51,589 --> 02:48:51,709
Mm-hmm.

2974
02:48:53,089 --> 02:48:54,229
There's so much fear.

2975
02:48:55,834 --> 02:48:59,104
In so many of the figures that
I spoke to for this book Yeah.

2976
02:48:59,104 --> 02:49:03,484
About what it's like to be a prominent
black political figure in this country.

2977
02:49:03,874 --> 02:49:09,634
And for those 40 years, what it
was like was fear of being killed.

2978
02:49:10,354 --> 02:49:16,924
And I think for Doc, for, for Jesse
Jackson to see Barack Obama win that

2979
02:49:16,924 --> 02:49:20,374
election and be alive for that moment.

2980
02:49:20,404 --> 02:49:20,914
Yes.

2981
02:49:21,604 --> 02:49:24,034
I think that the tears
were not just about their.

2982
02:49:25,504 --> 02:49:27,184
At times strained relationship.

2983
02:49:27,604 --> 02:49:30,814
It was also about actually
seeing that moment happen.

2984
02:49:30,844 --> 02:49:32,314
I think there was a bit
of disbelief in there.

2985
02:49:32,314 --> 02:49:32,404
With

2986
02:49:32,404 --> 02:49:33,064
the disbelief it's

2987
02:49:33,064 --> 02:49:33,719
happening, it's

2988
02:49:33,719 --> 02:49:34,319
finally happening.

2989
02:49:34,319 --> 02:49:39,094
It had been truncated that hope had
been truncated for so many Americans.

2990
02:49:39,184 --> 02:49:40,204
So many times.

2991
02:49:40,234 --> 02:49:40,384
Yeah.

2992
02:49:40,504 --> 02:49:42,814
It was truncated for him,
and yes, you're right.

2993
02:49:42,814 --> 02:49:45,754
Their relationship has been
very up and down, very publicly.

2994
02:49:45,754 --> 02:49:49,114
So comments that, uh,
Reverend Jackson made.

2995
02:49:49,409 --> 02:49:50,699
About Barack Obama,

2996
02:49:50,759 --> 02:49:51,959
which weren't supposed to be

2997
02:49:51,959 --> 02:49:52,364
public, but became Yeah.

2998
02:49:52,364 --> 02:49:53,344
Which weren't supposed to be public.

2999
02:49:53,344 --> 02:49:53,819
Became public.

3000
02:49:54,059 --> 02:50:00,179
Um, and, uh, basically
privately reprimanding him for

3001
02:50:00,179 --> 02:50:02,009
how he spoke to black people.

3002
02:50:02,549 --> 02:50:08,969
And later on, Reverend Jackson
said, I so regret saying that

3003
02:50:08,969 --> 02:50:10,264
he had so much deep regret.

3004
02:50:10,264 --> 02:50:10,544
Mm-hmm.

3005
02:50:10,624 --> 02:50:13,049
And I think there were, there
was regret in those tears too.

3006
02:50:13,109 --> 02:50:13,319
Yeah.

3007
02:50:13,649 --> 02:50:15,749
So, yes, the relationship was.

3008
02:50:16,084 --> 02:50:16,804
Strained.

3009
02:50:16,864 --> 02:50:20,164
And I think for everybody around
them it's so unfortunate because

3010
02:50:20,164 --> 02:50:21,694
there is a direct line between.

3011
02:50:22,429 --> 02:50:25,669
Reverend Jackson and Barack
Obama, that one could not have

3012
02:50:25,669 --> 02:50:26,869
existed without the other.

3013
02:50:26,979 --> 02:50:30,759
We just left a 50 mile
walk, uh, in North Carolina.

3014
02:50:30,759 --> 02:50:32,259
It's time to love forward together.

3015
02:50:32,259 --> 02:50:37,179
This is our Selma, and in many ways, the
way we organized it was what I learned

3016
02:50:37,179 --> 02:50:41,469
with Jesse Jackson, broad and deep,
black and white, and brown and young and

3017
02:50:41,469 --> 02:50:46,899
old, and gay and straight, and Asian and
indigenous and multi policy, uh, focused.

3018
02:50:47,289 --> 02:50:48,519
Jesse Jackson.

3019
02:50:48,579 --> 02:50:52,389
Uh, when I met him 40 years ago as
a student, uh, he asked me to work.

3020
02:50:52,399 --> 02:50:57,199
With his, um, student campaign when he
was running for president in 1984, and

3021
02:50:57,199 --> 02:50:59,269
what we heard in him was not a politician.

3022
02:50:59,269 --> 02:51:03,979
What we heard in him was somebody was
serious about, uh, people united to

3023
02:51:03,979 --> 02:51:09,139
save humanity, pushing that he was
serious about, um, an agenda of uplift.

3024
02:51:09,169 --> 02:51:13,699
We didn't hear him just criticizing the
person he was running against or demeaning

3025
02:51:13,699 --> 02:51:15,649
them a message we need to have today.

3026
02:51:15,649 --> 02:51:17,629
He instead gave people a vision.

3027
02:51:17,929 --> 02:51:19,564
He talked about moving from civil rights.

3028
02:51:20,094 --> 02:51:22,254
Battlegrounds, the economic common ground.

3029
02:51:22,584 --> 02:51:25,074
He talked about moving
to moral high ground.

3030
02:51:25,254 --> 02:51:30,264
He framed issues in a moral perspective
using both Judeo-Christian traditions

3031
02:51:30,264 --> 02:51:33,474
as well as, uh, uh, the Constitution.

3032
02:51:33,594 --> 02:51:36,809
And Jesse had a wave, just like
Juan said, of saying, if, if,

3033
02:51:36,814 --> 02:51:38,514
if you can pull down the walls.

3034
02:51:38,549 --> 02:51:42,329
In, in Germany, if you can pull down
the walls in South Africa, you can pull

3035
02:51:42,329 --> 02:51:46,109
down the walls here in Cuba, you can
pull down the walls of that keeps people

3036
02:51:46,109 --> 02:51:48,089
in poverty and in ghettos right here.

3037
02:51:48,449 --> 02:51:49,739
And, and that's too uniqueness.

3038
02:51:49,739 --> 02:51:53,579
Jesse didn't just have a race
critique, he had a race critique,

3039
02:51:53,579 --> 02:51:56,729
but he recognized that a race
critique alone was too limited.

3040
02:51:56,729 --> 02:51:59,189
He remembered what Dr. King talked.

3041
02:51:59,229 --> 02:52:04,749
In 1965, the end of the Selma Montgomery
March, that the greatest fear of the

3042
02:52:04,749 --> 02:52:09,219
greedy, uh, oligarchs in this country
is for the masses of black people and

3043
02:52:09,219 --> 02:52:13,749
poor white people and others Latinos,
to join together and form a voting

3044
02:52:13,749 --> 02:52:17,799
block that could fundamentally shift the
economic architecture of this nation.

3045
02:52:18,159 --> 02:52:18,969
He pushed us.

3046
02:52:19,609 --> 02:52:25,669
Amy on, on knowing policy, the policy
by adversaries and our own knowing

3047
02:52:25,669 --> 02:52:30,919
both sides and, and that we didn't have
to be about demeaning our adversary.

3048
02:52:30,919 --> 02:52:34,999
What we needed to do is give people a
vision of hope, and not just daydreaming

3049
02:52:34,999 --> 02:52:40,069
and wishful thinking, but the kind of hope
that grows out of building a movement.

3050
02:52:40,379 --> 02:52:41,699
You know, people say he lost.

3051
02:52:41,699 --> 02:52:44,039
He really didn't lose those two elections.

3052
02:52:44,339 --> 02:52:47,279
He brought 10 million new
people into the electorate.

3053
02:52:47,519 --> 02:52:49,799
He changed rules in the Democratic party.

3054
02:52:50,009 --> 02:52:53,249
He lifted up an agenda for
people who weren't even hearing

3055
02:52:53,249 --> 02:52:54,539
their names talked about.

3056
02:52:54,539 --> 02:52:57,989
He was one of the few candidates
that talked about the poor, openly

3057
02:52:57,989 --> 02:52:59,924
talked about whether it was in Iowa.

3058
02:53:00,619 --> 02:53:05,839
Or in Alabama or Mississippi or New
York or upstate Connecticut, wherever

3059
02:53:05,839 --> 02:53:08,299
he was, he was lifting up the people.

3060
02:53:08,539 --> 02:53:13,459
And that is the part of the genius and
the and, and the kind of hope that he

3061
02:53:13,459 --> 02:53:18,829
kept alive over and over again and he
never stopped even when he got ill,

3062
02:53:19,159 --> 02:53:21,619
uh, we were in Texas walking 21 miles.

3063
02:53:21,859 --> 02:53:26,749
Uh, supporting, um, people in Texas and
Jesse Jackson showed up five years ago

3064
02:53:26,929 --> 02:53:31,129
when we, in the middle of COVID, when
they, we were fighting to make sure that

3065
02:53:31,219 --> 02:53:36,499
poor and low wage people would be treated
as fast, fairly in COVID appropriations.

3066
02:53:36,499 --> 02:53:40,489
Jesse Jackson just showed up one day when
we were standing at fighting for voting

3067
02:53:40,489 --> 02:53:44,839
rights and demanding that the COVID
bill and, and restoring voting rights.

3068
02:53:45,324 --> 02:53:48,564
Uh, be done the same time, and
politicians didn't want to do that.

3069
02:53:48,564 --> 02:53:51,624
Jesse showed up and we,
uh, went to jail together.

3070
02:53:51,954 --> 02:53:54,474
Uh, when we started, uh,
I got arrested together.

3071
02:53:54,474 --> 02:53:56,904
When we started the reiteration
of the Poor People's Campaign.

3072
02:53:57,204 --> 02:54:00,204
Jesse had been the mayor
of of Solidarity City.

3073
02:54:00,414 --> 02:54:03,024
He came and said, I'm
not even here to lead it.

3074
02:54:03,294 --> 02:54:08,364
I'm here to say it is about time that
we pick this up 50 years later and

3075
02:54:08,364 --> 02:54:10,164
that it is the right thing to do.

3076
02:54:10,349 --> 02:54:15,569
Because he recognized right now
that we were not in a crisis of

3077
02:54:15,569 --> 02:54:17,339
democracy or a crisis of a party.

3078
02:54:17,609 --> 02:54:19,469
We are in the crisis of civilization.

3079
02:54:19,739 --> 02:54:23,129
Something very flaw is happening when
people think the only thing you do with

3080
02:54:23,129 --> 02:54:27,869
power is hurt people and expel people,
and deport people, and take people's

3081
02:54:27,869 --> 02:54:29,639
healthcare and take people's living wages.

3082
02:54:29,999 --> 02:54:32,129
Jesse's message is needed today.

3083
02:54:32,679 --> 02:54:37,239
I would say everybody needs to go
listen to 84 and 88 and listen to it

3084
02:54:37,239 --> 02:54:41,919
and model much of it today in order
for us to come up and out of the

3085
02:54:41,919 --> 02:54:43,599
things that we are experiencing today.

3086
02:54:44,814 --> 02:54:47,769
And, and Reverend Barber, uh, I'm
wondering, you've often said that

3087
02:54:47,769 --> 02:54:54,399
like Selma in 65 and Birmingham in
63, this is our moral moment now.

3088
02:54:55,149 --> 02:54:58,359
If you could briefly, uh, tell us why.

3089
02:54:59,649 --> 02:55:04,059
Well, you know, one of the things when you
listen, for instance, at the end of the

3090
02:55:04,059 --> 02:55:09,009
Selma to Montgomery, when Dr. King gave
his sermon on the steps of the Alabama

3091
02:55:09,009 --> 02:55:13,359
State House, it's interesting that he
broadened what he was talking about.

3092
02:55:13,364 --> 02:55:15,609
He was about just talking about
voting rights for black people.

3093
02:55:15,609 --> 02:55:19,719
He laid out what could happen if we
had, if we expanded voting rights.

3094
02:55:19,899 --> 02:55:24,999
He laid out, um, uh, how it
would shift the democracy itself

3095
02:55:25,389 --> 02:55:26,799
as we stand here right now.

3096
02:55:27,594 --> 02:55:31,404
Uh, Jesse passed yesterday and when
and when his family called me, his

3097
02:55:31,404 --> 02:55:33,534
son called me as we were praying.

3098
02:55:33,534 --> 02:55:37,704
As they were taking him out, his
wife said, A mighty lion has fallen.

3099
02:55:37,704 --> 02:55:39,024
That's what his son told me.

3100
02:55:39,624 --> 02:55:43,674
And I think about the moral power
of that lion is both protect

3101
02:55:43,674 --> 02:55:45,654
and expand the pride well.

3102
02:55:46,614 --> 02:55:51,864
Right now we have less voting rights to
today than we had August 6th, 1965 when

3103
02:55:51,864 --> 02:55:53,604
the Voting Rights Act was first passed.

3104
02:55:53,604 --> 02:55:56,304
And Jesse would always teach
us that voting rights wasn't

3105
02:55:56,304 --> 02:55:57,114
just for black people.

3106
02:55:57,114 --> 02:55:59,064
He taught what it did for white women.

3107
02:55:59,064 --> 02:56:02,904
What it did for working people,
we still do not have a living wage

3108
02:56:02,934 --> 02:56:04,974
while we are making trillionaires.

3109
02:56:05,304 --> 02:56:08,274
Greedy trillionaires and giving
more and more money to, to

3110
02:56:08,274 --> 02:56:09,774
billionaires and the oligarchs.

3111
02:56:09,804 --> 02:56:11,154
We don't have a living wage.

3112
02:56:11,514 --> 02:56:15,084
Uh, over 140 million people
are poor and low wage.

3113
02:56:15,444 --> 02:56:19,734
Uh, 87 million people are without
healthcare or underinsured at a time

3114
02:56:19,734 --> 02:56:24,084
where we are passing big, ugly, deadly
destructive bills that take healthcare.

3115
02:56:24,324 --> 02:56:25,764
We also live in a time.

3116
02:56:25,924 --> 02:56:31,504
When, uh, even on the democratic side,
politicians won't say the word poor.

3117
02:56:31,774 --> 02:56:35,704
They'll talk about affordability,
but they won't say the word poor

3118
02:56:35,704 --> 02:56:40,114
Jesse would, and what he would say
is that you can't just say rising

3119
02:56:40,114 --> 02:56:42,664
tides, you know, help the middle class
and everybody else would come up.

3120
02:56:42,844 --> 02:56:47,494
He knew some votes were stuck, and he knew
that you have to lift from the bottom.

3121
02:56:47,524 --> 02:56:50,314
Not really rising tide,
but lift from the bottom.

3122
02:56:50,314 --> 02:56:51,334
And he had a way.

3123
02:56:51,889 --> 02:56:55,999
That we need now, we need to let people
know something that he often said, if

3124
02:56:55,999 --> 02:56:59,839
you are black and you can't pay your
light bill because you don't make

3125
02:56:59,839 --> 02:57:03,109
a living wage or you are white, you
can't pay your light bill 'cause you,

3126
02:57:03,199 --> 02:57:04,609
because you don't make a living wage.

3127
02:57:04,879 --> 02:57:08,149
We're all black in the dark and
the only way to get in the light

3128
02:57:08,359 --> 02:57:09,979
is for all of those in the dark.

3129
02:57:10,084 --> 02:57:11,644
To exercise their power.

3130
02:57:11,944 --> 02:57:16,714
We are in the finding that want a critical
moral moment because 90 million people,

3131
02:57:16,924 --> 02:57:22,414
with all of this authoritarianism and neo
fascism being spewed and put in policy

3132
02:57:22,624 --> 02:57:25,684
through this current administration,
90 million people stayed home.

3133
02:57:26,014 --> 02:57:30,574
The current Congress is made up
the way it is because of only 7,000

3134
02:57:30,574 --> 02:57:35,284
votes and in many states, many
states, uh, the margin of victory.

3135
02:57:35,779 --> 02:57:40,069
Is within 5% of just the number of
poor low wage people that didn't

3136
02:57:40,069 --> 02:57:42,979
vote and they said they didn't
vote because nobody talked to them.

3137
02:57:42,979 --> 02:57:45,979
Jesse would talk to them and
we need to be doing it today.

3138
02:57:46,219 --> 02:57:47,749
We must never surrender.

3139
02:57:48,379 --> 02:57:51,649
America will get better and better.

3140
02:57:51,769 --> 02:57:52,549
Keep hope alive.

3141
02:57:53,494 --> 02:57:54,464
Keep hope alive.

3142
02:57:55,494 --> 02:57:56,464
Keep hope alive.

3143
02:57:58,054 --> 02:57:59,064
Keep hope alive.

3144
02:57:59,299 --> 02:58:01,939
Um, that was the phrase before hope.

3145
02:58:02,164 --> 02:58:06,034
That, uh, remarkable picture
with, uh, Barack Obama.

3146
02:58:06,364 --> 02:58:07,864
But you go way back.

3147
02:58:07,894 --> 02:58:11,104
Um, go back to 1971, Larry.

3148
02:58:11,164 --> 02:58:15,034
Well, that was my first contact
with Jesse Jackson in 1971.

3149
02:58:15,484 --> 02:58:21,754
I had been, uh, invited to the, uh, SCLC,
Southern Christian Leadership Conference,

3150
02:58:21,754 --> 02:58:24,304
national Convention in New Orleans.

3151
02:58:24,919 --> 02:58:26,719
Uh, to receive an award.

3152
02:58:26,719 --> 02:58:31,099
I had just been appointed to the Board
of Education in Newark by Ken Gibson,

3153
02:58:31,099 --> 02:58:32,389
the first black mayor of Newark.

3154
02:58:32,479 --> 02:58:35,989
And you were the youngest ever
member of the Board of Education?

3155
02:58:35,994 --> 02:58:36,004
Yes.

3156
02:58:36,019 --> 02:58:36,469
Yes.

3157
02:58:36,469 --> 02:58:38,554
Uh, you would later become known as Adhimu.

3158
02:58:38,574 --> 02:58:38,794
Yes.

3159
02:58:38,894 --> 02:58:41,809
And you were a protege
of, uh, Amiri Baraka?

3160
02:58:41,809 --> 02:58:42,619
That is correct.

3161
02:58:43,039 --> 02:58:47,119
And, uh, I was invited down by
Coretta Scott King, and I met.

3162
02:58:47,344 --> 02:58:50,794
Many of the civil rights leaders
that were still living at that

3163
02:58:50,794 --> 02:58:52,864
time, including Jesse Jackson.

3164
02:58:53,224 --> 02:58:58,744
In fact, that was my first introduction
to, uh, his or rhetorical powers.

3165
02:58:58,774 --> 02:59:03,004
He spoke one night for almost
like three hours, I think, uh,

3166
02:59:03,004 --> 02:59:04,429
at the dinner and then again.

3167
02:59:05,299 --> 02:59:10,999
We, um, were, we crossed paths at the
National Black Political Convention in

3168
02:59:10,999 --> 02:59:17,689
Gary, Indiana in 1972, and Jesse gave
one of his most famous speeches, uh,

3169
02:59:17,689 --> 02:59:20,299
at the opening of the National Black.

3170
02:59:20,534 --> 02:59:25,634
Political convention, Gary, in
1972, but then as you mentioned, uh,

3171
02:59:25,634 --> 02:59:29,114
Amy in 1984, he ran for president.

3172
02:59:29,444 --> 02:59:33,284
At that time, we had, uh,
formed in Newark, the People's

3173
02:59:33,284 --> 02:59:35,324
Organization for Progress in 1982.

3174
02:59:35,324 --> 02:59:41,144
But in 84 we formed another group called
Friends of Jesse Jackson to campaign, uh,

3175
02:59:41,204 --> 02:59:43,604
uh, for Jesse and to raise money for him.

3176
02:59:43,969 --> 02:59:49,999
And then in 88, uh, everything
came together in the 1988 campaign.

3177
02:59:50,419 --> 02:59:56,209
I was co-chair of, uh, his campaign in
New Jersey and a Jesse Jackson delegate.

3178
02:59:56,539 --> 02:59:59,719
Now, I wanna say one of the
major impacts that Jesse had.

3179
03:00:00,559 --> 03:00:00,804
I remember this fight.

3180
03:00:01,719 --> 03:00:07,569
Uh, pretty clearly was the question
of, um, winner take all versus

3181
03:00:07,569 --> 03:00:09,459
proportional representation.

3182
03:00:09,969 --> 03:00:15,459
Uh, at the convention, uh, you were
selected to be the presidential nominee

3183
03:00:15,459 --> 03:00:17,289
based on the number of delegates you won.

3184
03:00:17,709 --> 03:00:20,619
And if you won a district,
you got all the delegates.

3185
03:00:21,159 --> 03:00:23,049
Jesse Jackson helped change that.

3186
03:00:23,599 --> 03:00:24,949
So it was proportional.

3187
03:00:24,949 --> 03:00:28,129
You got the number of delegates
in proportion to the number

3188
03:00:28,129 --> 03:00:29,359
of votes you received.

3189
03:00:29,809 --> 03:00:35,899
And, uh, I think that that mechanistically
was one of the things that helped pave the

3190
03:00:35,899 --> 03:00:41,599
way as, uh, Bernie Sanders and Professor
Sse mentioned paved the way for Barack

3191
03:00:41,599 --> 03:00:48,169
Obama to become President Jesse Jackson in
that way, uh, made the democratic process,

3192
03:00:48,529 --> 03:00:50,779
uh, as Jesse said, more democratic.

3193
03:00:51,754 --> 03:00:57,364
So talk about the significance, I mean
the inspiration for the next generations.

3194
03:00:57,364 --> 03:01:02,944
I mean, you had Jackson taking on the
large corporations, uh, very comfortable

3195
03:01:02,944 --> 03:01:08,494
walking into Wall Street demanding,
proportional representation, not only

3196
03:01:08,494 --> 03:01:13,529
in voting yes, but um, based on, for
example, in media outlets around.

3197
03:01:14,024 --> 03:01:18,554
The country proportional representations
to the population they broadcast to.

3198
03:01:18,554 --> 03:01:18,824
That's right.

3199
03:01:18,914 --> 03:01:21,884
To have African American reporters there.

3200
03:01:21,889 --> 03:01:22,124
Right, right.

3201
03:01:22,124 --> 03:01:22,544
Launch.

3202
03:01:22,544 --> 03:01:26,834
Many young black reporters in
the country, uh, being hired.

3203
03:01:27,014 --> 03:01:27,224
Right.

3204
03:01:28,004 --> 03:01:34,754
Well, uh, he introduced that principle not
only into the political sphere, but into

3205
03:01:34,754 --> 03:01:39,914
the economic sphere that black people, as
you said in the media, should, uh, have.

3206
03:01:40,149 --> 03:01:46,269
Representation, uh, proportional to
our presence in the population, uh,

3207
03:01:46,299 --> 03:01:50,469
should have contracts in business
in proportion to our population.

3208
03:01:50,469 --> 03:01:53,709
That that was one of his,
uh, mantras at that time.

3209
03:01:53,709 --> 03:01:59,169
But what amazes me, um, Amy looking
at the clips you played here this

3210
03:01:59,169 --> 03:02:02,079
morning, is how prescient, how relevant.

3211
03:02:02,999 --> 03:02:08,489
Jackson's message was in the
eighties and nineties to today.

3212
03:02:08,489 --> 03:02:11,039
I mean, he's talking basically
about the same thing.

3213
03:02:11,339 --> 03:02:15,959
You know, that we are living under,
uh, political tyranny, uh, economic

3214
03:02:15,959 --> 03:02:20,309
tyranny of Wall Street, uh, the
greatest upward distribution of wealth

3215
03:02:20,309 --> 03:02:25,079
in the history of the country, uh,
increasing poverty and unemployment.

3216
03:02:25,754 --> 03:02:28,694
And, uh, we need a fundamental change.

3217
03:02:28,694 --> 03:02:35,054
And I think those of us who recognize,
uh, Reverend Jackson's contributions, the

3218
03:02:35,054 --> 03:02:42,824
way we continue to honor him is to step
up, intensify the struggle for racial

3219
03:02:42,824 --> 03:02:44,594
and economic justice in this country.

3220
03:02:46,144 --> 03:02:51,604
Uh, finally, um, you ran for various
political offices in New Jersey.

3221
03:02:51,634 --> 03:02:57,514
Um, you were there at the convention he
got, he was the, in 1988, he got the,

3222
03:02:57,784 --> 03:03:00,814
uh, second greatest number of votes.

3223
03:03:00,814 --> 03:03:00,904
Yes.

3224
03:03:00,964 --> 03:03:03,184
Uh, for the presidential nomination.

3225
03:03:03,184 --> 03:03:03,274
Yes.

3226
03:03:03,274 --> 03:03:04,624
He famously was there.

3227
03:03:05,454 --> 03:03:11,064
Crowd in Chicago when, uh, Barack
Obama had just been elected

3228
03:03:11,064 --> 03:03:13,224
and you saw his tears stained.

3229
03:03:13,224 --> 03:03:13,499
That's righted face.

3230
03:03:13,584 --> 03:03:13,794
That's right.

3231
03:03:13,824 --> 03:03:15,474
As he looked up into the crowd.

3232
03:03:15,504 --> 03:03:15,594
Right.

3233
03:03:15,864 --> 03:03:19,524
Um, your final thoughts
on Reverend Jesse Jackson?

3234
03:03:20,334 --> 03:03:21,894
Well, he was our living link.

3235
03:03:22,894 --> 03:03:27,214
To the Civil Rights Movement, the
Black Freedom Struggle, the Black

3236
03:03:27,214 --> 03:03:32,044
Liberation Movement, Jesse Jackson,
more than anything else was audacious.

3237
03:03:32,524 --> 03:03:37,234
He had waited around for people to say,
Jesse, you should run for president.

3238
03:03:37,234 --> 03:03:41,644
Or Jesse, you should do the, it, it, it
probably wouldn't have happened, Jesse.

3239
03:03:42,279 --> 03:03:44,559
Knew his place in history.

3240
03:03:44,829 --> 03:03:48,519
He knew because of his role in the
Civil rights movement, and that's

3241
03:03:48,519 --> 03:03:50,289
something we should not overlook.

3242
03:03:50,349 --> 03:03:53,619
Uh, we talk more about the
contemporary Jesse Jackson.

3243
03:03:53,949 --> 03:03:59,499
We need to talk about his role in that
movement of blood and fury in the 1960s,

3244
03:03:59,499 --> 03:04:04,059
the Civil rights movement in which so
many lives were taken, but to, as I said.

3245
03:04:04,714 --> 03:04:08,224
The best way that we can honor
Jesse Jackson and all the martyrs.

3246
03:04:08,224 --> 03:04:11,914
We also saw this week, a couple
of weeks, the passage of Claudette

3247
03:04:11,914 --> 03:04:16,174
Colvin is to get back, um, uh, step up

3248
03:04:16,344 --> 03:04:18,844
Claudette Colvin was Rosa
Parks before Rosa Park.

3249
03:04:18,844 --> 03:04:19,384
That's right.

3250
03:04:19,924 --> 03:04:20,264
That's right.

3251
03:04:20,264 --> 03:04:21,274
Sat down on the bus, refused to get right.

3252
03:04:21,424 --> 03:04:25,234
Jesse's daughter, Santita spoke
at the Tributed at Abyssinian

3253
03:04:25,234 --> 03:04:26,644
Baptist Church last week.

3254
03:04:26,854 --> 03:04:28,144
I was also there for that.

3255
03:04:28,324 --> 03:04:33,004
But the best way that we can honor these
people is to step up this fight because.

3256
03:04:33,734 --> 03:04:39,614
We, Jesse's life was an arc, and we
saw that arc move in the direction

3257
03:04:40,004 --> 03:04:44,414
of progress, and now the arc
swings in the opposite direction

3258
03:04:44,414 --> 03:04:48,194
of really counter-revolution,
and now we have to step up and

3259
03:04:48,194 --> 03:04:49,604
build this movement to fight that.

3260
03:04:49,684 --> 03:04:53,614
The Civil Rights Movement of the
1950s and 1960s saw important strides

3261
03:04:53,614 --> 03:04:57,364
made for black Americans, part of
a global movement of black pride,

3262
03:04:57,369 --> 03:05:01,534
post-colonial struggles, and a
burgeoning sense of diasporic solidarity.

3263
03:05:01,594 --> 03:05:05,104
The Civil Rights movement
was marked by both social and

3264
03:05:05,104 --> 03:05:06,724
legislative victories in the us.

3265
03:05:06,784 --> 03:05:11,374
Some of these victories included the
Civil Rights Act of 1964, which banned

3266
03:05:11,374 --> 03:05:15,664
various forms of discrimination and
employment institutions and privately

3267
03:05:15,664 --> 03:05:20,374
owned public accommodations, and the
Voting Rights Act of 1965, which prevented

3268
03:05:20,374 --> 03:05:24,514
state and local governments from denying
citizens equal access to voting votes.

3269
03:05:24,964 --> 03:05:29,314
The 1960s also marked the era of President
Lyndon b Johnson's Great society.

3270
03:05:30,004 --> 03:05:33,514
Which saw significant legislative
and social policy pushes to

3271
03:05:33,514 --> 03:05:34,684
reduce poverty nationwide.

3272
03:05:35,314 --> 03:05:38,584
It was the largest social
reform agenda in modern history.

3273
03:05:38,884 --> 03:05:41,674
It included the establishment of
a job Corps of a hundred thousand

3274
03:05:41,674 --> 03:05:45,154
disadvantaged Men, a community action
program that allowed people to tackle

3275
03:05:45,154 --> 03:05:46,384
poverty in their own communities.

3276
03:05:46,714 --> 03:05:50,314
Plans to help unemployed people find
sustainable work money for farmers

3277
03:05:50,314 --> 03:05:54,544
to purchase land, the Fair Housing
Act of 1968, and help for unemployed

3278
03:05:54,544 --> 03:05:56,224
parents entering the workforce.

3279
03:05:56,584 --> 03:05:59,944
Johnson's great society also
established some landmark programs

3280
03:06:00,214 --> 03:06:04,534
that still exist today, such as
Medicare and Medicaid and Headstart.

3281
03:06:05,314 --> 03:06:08,944
But Johnson's great society failed
to address some key issues in

3282
03:06:08,944 --> 03:06:09,964
the fight to eliminate poverty.

3283
03:06:10,354 --> 03:06:12,634
Some said his policies
didn't go far enough.

3284
03:06:13,174 --> 03:06:17,224
For example, many wanted Johnson to
include a universal basic income or

3285
03:06:17,224 --> 03:06:18,754
guaranteed jobs for the unemployed.

3286
03:06:19,084 --> 03:06:22,264
Additionally, the great society
didn't address the issues that

3287
03:06:22,264 --> 03:06:23,329
emerged from global capitalism.

3288
03:06:24,004 --> 03:06:28,444
Such as large corporations shifting their
operations to low wage markets, which

3289
03:06:28,444 --> 03:06:32,314
caused a decline in the number of stable
and well-paying manufacturing jobs.

3290
03:06:32,674 --> 03:06:36,274
That for so long had been the catalyst
of upward mobility from millions of

3291
03:06:36,274 --> 03:06:40,264
people in America, and some of the great
society programs were racially biased.

3292
03:06:40,684 --> 03:06:44,224
They increased opportunities and access
for white families, but didn't address

3293
03:06:44,224 --> 03:06:45,329
the needs of poor black Americans.

3294
03:06:45,994 --> 03:06:48,784
'cause the spread of integration
had led to so-called white flight

3295
03:06:49,114 --> 03:06:51,514
where white families would move
out of integrated neighborhoods.

3296
03:06:51,904 --> 03:06:55,834
This also caused a more informal form
of segregation that had lasting impacts.

3297
03:06:56,344 --> 03:07:00,244
Public schools with predominantly black
students received relatively little

3298
03:07:00,244 --> 03:07:04,384
federal funding, meaning they had fewer
resources, which exacerbated already

3299
03:07:04,384 --> 03:07:07,924
existing racial inequality in response to
the shortcomings of government sponsored

3300
03:07:07,924 --> 03:07:09,994
social programs, black people nationwide.

3301
03:07:10,499 --> 03:07:11,699
Continued the freedom struggle.

3302
03:07:12,029 --> 03:07:15,539
They achieved most success by founding
small grassroots organizations from

3303
03:07:15,539 --> 03:07:19,439
within the community that could meet their
needs in a more community specific way.

3304
03:07:19,799 --> 03:07:23,249
One successful example of this type of
grassroots organizing that eventually

3305
03:07:23,249 --> 03:07:27,779
snowballed into a nationwide organization
was Operation Push, an acronym that

3306
03:07:27,779 --> 03:07:32,429
originally stood for People United to
save humanity, and that was later changed

3307
03:07:32,429 --> 03:07:34,919
to People United to Serve Humanity.

3308
03:07:35,369 --> 03:07:39,299
The organization was founded by
the Reverend Jesse Jackson in 1971.

3309
03:07:39,724 --> 03:07:42,784
With the specific mission to
improve the economic conditions

3310
03:07:43,084 --> 03:07:44,464
of black Americans in Chicago.

3311
03:07:44,794 --> 03:07:47,584
Let's learn a little bit more about
Reverend Jackson in the thought bubble.

3312
03:07:48,214 --> 03:07:52,804
Reverend Jesse Jackson was born, Jesse
Burns later adopting the name Jackson

3313
03:07:52,804 --> 03:07:57,664
from his stepfather on October 8th,
1941 in Greenville, South Carolina.

3314
03:07:58,354 --> 03:08:02,494
Growing up in the segregated south,
he excelled in school and sports.

3315
03:08:02,734 --> 03:08:07,079
Jackson's forays into political organizing
and social activism began in college.

3316
03:08:07,969 --> 03:08:10,849
He became heavily involved in
local civil rights demonstrations.

3317
03:08:11,449 --> 03:08:15,649
In 1964, he graduated from North
Carolina Agricultural and Technical

3318
03:08:15,649 --> 03:08:19,849
State College in Greensboro, North
Carolina, with a bachelor's in sociology.

3319
03:08:20,179 --> 03:08:24,229
After graduation, he traveled to
Selma, Alabama to march with Dr. King

3320
03:08:24,799 --> 03:08:27,499
and became active in King's Southern
Christian Leadership Conference.

3321
03:08:28,039 --> 03:08:32,659
The SCLC was and remains to this
day, a landmark civil rights

3322
03:08:32,659 --> 03:08:35,114
organization alongside the SCLC.

3323
03:08:35,764 --> 03:08:38,944
Jackson helped coordinate civil
rights protests across the south.

3324
03:08:39,424 --> 03:08:43,264
In 1966, king appointed Jackson
as the first Director of

3325
03:08:43,264 --> 03:08:45,304
Operation Breadbasket in Chicago.

3326
03:08:45,694 --> 03:08:50,464
Operation Breadbasket was an offshoot of
the SCLC, which aimed to get more jobs for

3327
03:08:50,464 --> 03:08:54,214
black Americans, while organizing various
levels of boycotts against companies

3328
03:08:54,484 --> 03:08:56,104
that refused to hire black employees.

3329
03:08:56,584 --> 03:08:59,284
Two years later, Jackson
was with King when he was

3330
03:08:59,284 --> 03:09:02,194
assassinated on April 4th, 1968.

3331
03:09:03,064 --> 03:09:03,454
Jackson.

3332
03:09:04,219 --> 03:09:05,389
Was just 26 years old.

3333
03:09:05,509 --> 03:09:10,129
Within a couple years, Jackson
exited from the SCLC under a cloud of

3334
03:09:10,129 --> 03:09:14,479
accusations from other leaders, namely
Ralph Abernathy, that he was using the

3335
03:09:14,479 --> 03:09:16,249
organization for his own personal gain.

3336
03:09:16,939 --> 03:09:19,429
He formerly resigned in 1971.

3337
03:09:20,269 --> 03:09:20,539
Thanks.

3338
03:09:20,539 --> 03:09:21,079
Thought bubble.

3339
03:09:21,649 --> 03:09:25,819
That same year in 1971,
Jackson founded Operation Push.

3340
03:09:26,389 --> 03:09:28,819
Although the organization struggled
financially in its early years.

3341
03:09:29,599 --> 03:09:32,479
Push was able to raise money
from notable black Americans.

3342
03:09:33,079 --> 03:09:36,769
Push sought to improve the economic
and social conditions of black people

3343
03:09:36,769 --> 03:09:38,689
domestically and internationally.

3344
03:09:39,109 --> 03:09:42,589
To that end, they hosted a number
of direct action campaigns, had

3345
03:09:42,589 --> 03:09:45,769
weekly radio broadcasts, and gave
out awards to prominent black

3346
03:09:45,769 --> 03:09:47,539
people in the US and abroad.

3347
03:09:48,109 --> 03:09:52,429
Jackson saw his work as part of what
would become known as a rainbow coalition,

3348
03:09:52,909 --> 03:09:56,179
a phrase originally coined by Black
Panther leader Fred Hampton, which

3349
03:09:56,179 --> 03:09:58,039
referred to a group of diverse Americans.

3350
03:09:58,384 --> 03:10:00,814
Working together to fight
for justice for all.

3351
03:10:01,324 --> 03:10:05,824
One of the cornerstones of Bush's agenda
was a weekly Saturday morning rally at the

3352
03:10:05,824 --> 03:10:10,804
Hyde Park headquarters of Push in Chicago,
intentionally scheduled for Saturdays so

3353
03:10:10,804 --> 03:10:14,674
that Jackson, a self-proclaimed country
preacher, would not have to compete

3354
03:10:14,674 --> 03:10:16,114
with the other ministers on Sundays.

3355
03:10:16,654 --> 03:10:19,984
The rallies were an important source
of Jackson's influence in the community

3356
03:10:20,314 --> 03:10:24,124
Operation Push established several
key social programs that looked to

3357
03:10:24,124 --> 03:10:27,334
improve the circumstances of black
people in the Chicago community.

3358
03:10:27,829 --> 03:10:31,369
And founded Push Excel, a program
that focused on keeping black youth

3359
03:10:31,369 --> 03:10:34,729
in school and helped them with
job placement after graduation.

3360
03:10:35,179 --> 03:10:38,539
The program also included lobbying
organizations and major corporations

3361
03:10:38,839 --> 03:10:41,899
with a heavy presence in the black
community, pushing them to adopt

3362
03:10:41,899 --> 03:10:45,019
affirmative action programs, which
included getting companies to commit

3363
03:10:45,019 --> 03:10:49,489
to hiring more black people and people
of color as executives and supervisors.

3364
03:10:50,089 --> 03:10:55,069
It also worked to get those same companies
to include black suppliers, wholesalers,

3365
03:10:55,069 --> 03:10:56,864
and distributors to their purchasing list.

3366
03:10:57,544 --> 03:11:01,414
Push held vigils and Boycots to win these
important employment concessions, and even

3367
03:11:01,414 --> 03:11:05,554
managed to get several major corporations
to sign voluntary agreements, to hire

3368
03:11:05,554 --> 03:11:09,484
more black people, increase businesses
with minorities, donate money to black

3369
03:11:09,484 --> 03:11:13,804
colleges and other organizations, and
to increase ads and black publications.

3370
03:11:14,044 --> 03:11:17,644
But despite these important gains, push
suffered under the weight of public

3371
03:11:17,644 --> 03:11:22,114
scrutiny, Jackson's high profile image
in the community and his role as the face

3372
03:11:22,114 --> 03:11:24,364
of push meant that criticism of Jackson.

3373
03:11:24,559 --> 03:11:28,369
It was difficult to disentangle from the
criticism of the organization as a whole.

3374
03:11:28,759 --> 03:11:32,779
In 1983, Jackson launched his
presidential campaign and formally

3375
03:11:32,779 --> 03:11:35,089
resigned from his leadership
position within the organization.

3376
03:11:35,839 --> 03:11:40,459
In 1984, after he ended his presidential
campaign, Jackson formally launched

3377
03:11:40,459 --> 03:11:44,029
a new organization, the National
Rainbow Coalition, which sought

3378
03:11:44,089 --> 03:11:46,024
equal rights for all Americans.

3379
03:11:46,759 --> 03:11:49,909
The new group positioned themselves
as a counter to President Ronald

3380
03:11:49,909 --> 03:11:54,049
Reagan's economic agenda known
as Reaganomics Reaganomics.

3381
03:11:54,424 --> 03:11:58,174
Called for widespread tax cuts, a
decrease in spending for social programs

3382
03:11:58,564 --> 03:12:00,364
and deregulation of domestic markets.

3383
03:12:00,904 --> 03:12:05,674
Many black leaders believe that Reagan's
policies contributed to unemployment and

3384
03:12:05,674 --> 03:12:07,894
economic instability in black communities.

3385
03:12:08,134 --> 03:12:11,674
Jackson's speech at the 1984
Democratic National Convention

3386
03:12:12,214 --> 03:12:16,444
was like the organization he would
found called the Rainbow Coalition,

3387
03:12:16,954 --> 03:12:19,834
and look to unite disenfranchised
people from all walks of life.

3388
03:12:20,374 --> 03:12:21,124
Poor whites.

3389
03:12:21,424 --> 03:12:24,754
Black people, Latino people, young
people, Asian Americans, native

3390
03:12:24,754 --> 03:12:28,054
Americans, disabled people, small
farmers, and so many others.

3391
03:12:28,534 --> 03:12:34,354
Jackson said in his speech quote,
America is not like a blanket, one

3392
03:12:34,354 --> 03:12:39,184
piece of unbroken cloth, the same
color, the same texture, the same size.

3393
03:12:40,024 --> 03:12:41,519
America is more like a quilt.

3394
03:12:42,184 --> 03:12:48,214
Many patches, many pieces, many
colors, many sizes, all woven and

3395
03:12:48,214 --> 03:12:50,254
held together by common thread.

3396
03:12:50,794 --> 03:12:55,084
The white, the Hispanic, the black,
the Arab, the Jew, the woman, the

3397
03:12:55,084 --> 03:12:58,624
Native American, the small farmer, the
business person, the environmentalist,

3398
03:12:58,864 --> 03:13:01,924
the peace activist, the young,
the old, the lesbian, the gay and

3399
03:13:01,924 --> 03:13:06,784
the disabled make up the American
quilt even in our fractured state.

3400
03:13:06,784 --> 03:13:11,104
In of us, count and fit somewhere in 1996.

3401
03:13:11,614 --> 03:13:15,664
Jackson's new organization, the National
Rainbow Coalition, and Jackson's

3402
03:13:15,664 --> 03:13:17,734
old organization, operation Push.

3403
03:13:18,514 --> 03:13:22,774
Merged to form a new hybrid
organization, the Rainbow Push Coalition.

3404
03:13:23,134 --> 03:13:27,004
The merger continued the mission of the
two previous organizations, which sought

3405
03:13:27,004 --> 03:13:32,164
to protect and gain civil rights through
economic and educational initiatives and

3406
03:13:32,164 --> 03:13:33,994
to promote peace and justice worldwide.

3407
03:13:34,474 --> 03:13:38,224
New organization also pushed
aggressively for black involvement

3408
03:13:38,224 --> 03:13:41,884
in the new emerging sectors of
American society like Wall Street

3409
03:13:42,154 --> 03:13:44,284
Telecommunications and Silicon Valley.

3410
03:13:44,929 --> 03:13:48,709
The Rainbow Push Coalition is
still operational and continues

3411
03:13:48,709 --> 03:13:50,509
to promote these ideals today.

3412
03:13:51,049 --> 03:13:54,229
Jackson's vision served as a bridge
from the victories of the Civil

3413
03:13:54,229 --> 03:13:59,449
Rights Movement in the 1950s and
1960s to today, extending the mission

3414
03:13:59,779 --> 03:14:01,429
of social activists and allies.

3415
03:14:02,029 --> 03:14:05,179
His work addressed the political and
economic disparities in the Black

3416
03:14:05,179 --> 03:14:09,019
American community as well as in
communities of color across the world.

3417
03:14:09,559 --> 03:14:12,229
Despite this many permutations
and pitfalls over the years,

3418
03:14:12,619 --> 03:14:13,639
what operation pushed?

3419
03:14:14,014 --> 03:14:18,844
A successor organization show us is
the strength, power, and potential

3420
03:14:18,844 --> 03:14:22,504
of grassroots organizing, not only
within the black community, but

3421
03:14:22,504 --> 03:14:23,764
through communities nationwide.

3422
03:14:24,664 --> 03:14:28,324
As Jackson himself noted, it's
important to hold your head

3423
03:14:28,324 --> 03:14:30,124
high, stick your chest out.

3424
03:14:30,784 --> 03:14:31,414
You can make it.

3425
03:14:32,134 --> 03:14:36,269
It gets dark sometimes, but the
morning comes keep hope alive.

3426
03:14:36,979 --> 03:14:37,749
Operation push.

3427
03:14:38,554 --> 03:14:42,784
Shows the way that the energy of the
Civil Rights movement moved, changed, and

3428
03:14:42,784 --> 03:14:47,704
evolved beyond the 1960s and helped shape
the landscape of contemporary activism.

3429
03:14:48,634 --> 03:14:49,714
That's going to be it for today.

3430
03:14:49,714 --> 03:14:51,424
As always, keep the comments coming in.

3431
03:14:51,424 --> 03:14:54,574
You can record and rerecord
a voice message by tapping

3432
03:14:54,574 --> 03:14:55,714
the link in the show notes.

3433
03:14:56,044 --> 03:14:57,844
You can reach us on signal at the handle.

3434
03:14:57,844 --> 03:15:02,524
Best of left zero one or simply
email me to j@bestofleft.com.

3435
03:15:02,884 --> 03:15:06,724
The additional sections of the show
included clips from CBS Chicago.

3436
03:15:06,904 --> 03:15:11,254
The Brian Lehrer Show, democracy
Now Making Code Switch.

3437
03:15:11,434 --> 03:15:12,784
Some of my best friends are.

3438
03:15:13,224 --> 03:15:19,514
The Real News Podcast 13 PBS the right
time with Bomani Jones Life Stories.

3439
03:15:19,774 --> 03:15:20,844
Amanpour and Company.

3440
03:15:21,084 --> 03:15:23,574
In the loop and crash course.

3441
03:15:23,634 --> 03:15:25,494
Further details are in the show notes.

3442
03:15:25,824 --> 03:15:26,874
Thanks to everyone for listening.

3443
03:15:26,904 --> 03:15:29,484
Thanks to Dion and Aaron for their
production work for the show, and

3444
03:15:29,484 --> 03:15:33,354
co-starring Unsolved thanks to Amanda
for all of her work behind the scenes,

3445
03:15:33,354 --> 03:15:35,004
including her co-starring Unsolved.

3446
03:15:35,394 --> 03:15:39,174
Thanks to our editors and thanks to those
who already support the show by becoming

3447
03:15:39,174 --> 03:15:41,124
a member or purchasing gift memberships.

3448
03:15:41,334 --> 03:15:43,674
You'll find that link in the show
notes along with a link to join

3449
03:15:43,674 --> 03:15:46,704
our Discord community where you
can also continue the discussion.

3450
03:15:46,944 --> 03:15:49,824
And don't forget to follow us on
all the social media platforms.

3451
03:15:50,004 --> 03:15:52,674
We are on Blue Sky, but we're
also making the move to video on

3452
03:15:52,674 --> 03:15:54,714
Instagram with our new show solved.

3453
03:15:54,714 --> 03:15:56,004
So please support us there.

3454
03:15:56,334 --> 03:15:58,824
So coming to you from far outside
the conventional wisdom of

3455
03:15:58,824 --> 03:16:01,974
Washington dc My name is Jay, and
this has been the Best of the Left

3456
03:16:01,974 --> 03:16:03,714
podcast coming to you twice weekly.

3457
03:16:03,954 --> 03:16:06,264
Thanks entirely to the members
and donors to the show.

3458
03:16:06,474 --> 03:16:08,454
From best of the left.com.