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How do you feel about recycling?

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I've talked a lot about recycling
on this podcast, and you know, I've

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talked a lot about it from a benefit
standpoint and also from a not so good

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standpoint because we know a lot of
the items that get recycled within our

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area, or maybe we thought were getting
recycled, weren't getting recycled.

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But today on the podcast we have Tom Ske,
who is the founder and CEO of TerraCycle.

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He is here to talk about
TerraCycle and how TerraCycle

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pretty much recycles anything.

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And he says it's based on how much
people are willing to pay for it.

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You know, he breaks it down into formulas.

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Very insightful conversation.

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It's gonna be a lot of fun.

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It's gonna hopefully change your
mind about recycling and maybe

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participating in some of these
programs that TerraCycle has to offer.

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They're all around the world.

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It's a lot of fun.

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We're talking about plastic
pollution in the ocean.

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We're talking about microplastics and how
they could be maybe used and how much it

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costs to use something like that, and to
making other products all on this episode

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of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey everybody.

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Welcome back to another exciting episode
of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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I'm your host, Andrew Lu, and this
is the podcast where you find out

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what's happening with the ocean,
how you can speak up for the ocean,

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and what you can do to live for
a better ocean by taking action.

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On today's episode, we're gonna be talking
to Tomski, who is the founder and you

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know, president and CEO of TerraCycle.

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TerraCycle is an organization
that takes your waste.

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It's making waste the hero, as Tom
says, and brings it into a production

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line to make different products that
you will buy or that somebody will

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buy and truly recycles these types
of items and also provides ways for

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you can recycle pretty much anything.

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I think it's really important to
have these types of conversations

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to understand that there are
companies who are out there.

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Working in waste and there's so many
opportunities to work in waste, but

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people are just not doing the work.

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And it's something that has
to be done in the future.

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If we wanna truly reduce our waste.

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Obviously we have to reduce our
waste at the point of consumerism.

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You know, when we're buying
something, we get to vote for that

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every time we pay for something.

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We also have to understand that,
you know, as waste increases and

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as products are built to have
more waste, we have to be able to

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recycle that type of waste as well.

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So on both ends, right, we don't
want to just say recycling's the only

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way we wanna do it for both ends.

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So it's gonna be interesting to see
what happens with this, but I think it's

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something that people are gonna love.

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And I hope you enjoy this interview
with Tomski from TerraCycle.

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Enjoy and I'll talk to you after.

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Hey Tom, welcome to the How
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

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Are you ready to talk about TerraCycle?

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Absolutely.

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Thanks for having me.

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Awesome.

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This, uh, it is great to
have you on the podcast.

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This has been, uh, a bucket list of mine.

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I've been a big fan of
TerraCycle for a long time.

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I'm happy to have you on to be able
to, if not introduce, or just to

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kind of let people in behind the
curtain of TerraCycle, what it's all

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about, how it came to be, uh, and
just how people can get involved in,

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in submitting items and so forth.

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And, and I think it's gonna be a
lot of fun to have to have this

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podcast, uh, published for, for
the audience to be able to hear.

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Uh, so when we get in, before we get
into all of that, Tom, why don't you just

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let us know who you are and what you do?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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So, well, I'm Tom and I'm the,
uh, founder and CEO of TerraCycle.

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And if you haven't heard of TerraCycle,
you know, we've been around now for, uh,

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actually next year will be our 25th year
of operation for so a little bit of time.

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That's awesome.

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I know.

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It's amazing how, how time
flies and, uh, we operate all

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over the world in 21 countries.

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Uh, and the things we do are all about.

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Fulfilling our central mission, which
is eliminating the idea of waste.

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And, uh, that can range from, uh,
uh, cleaning up high risk litter.

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We run Bangkok's biggest, uh,
river cleanup system, all the

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way to recycling things that are
not traditionally recyclable.

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Uh, we are the world's largest
cigarette butt recycler, world's

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largest coffee capsule, recycler,
hundreds of other waste streams.

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Uh, we help companies then make
their things from waste, uh, from

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Olympic podiums to the world's first
shoe from shoes or pen from pens.

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And then we really push upstream on how
do we really shift out of just recycling

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things to reusing, um, all on this journey
for how do we solve for the idea of waste.

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It's incredible what you guys are able
to do and what you've been able to

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do accomplish over the last 25 years.

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Um, how, like, how, like, this is
what I wanted to find out is, yeah.

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Is how did this all build?

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Like where did this all begin?

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Yeah.

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Take us from the beginning.

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'cause like, you know, we've,
we've heard the recycling.

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You know, sort of story, you know, people
came out, recycling was a big thing, but

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then we realized that, oh, wait a minute.

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You know, not everything is recycled.

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And a lot of things we, we think
is recycled isn't, but TerraCycle

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can kind of recycle stuff that we
just don't think is, is recycled.

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So how did this whole idea start?

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Yeah, it's a wild, uh, story.

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So, look, I've always loved
entrepreneurship as a young kid,

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you know, like my lemonade stand was
badass when I was like 12, you know?

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Um, I started my first company at 14.

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Nothing purposeful, just like
a web design company, right?

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But still, you know, like I love
the idea of entrepreneurship.

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And I, uh, when I got to college, I
had this real turning point where one

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of the classes I took was Introduction
to Economics, like econ 1 0 1.

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Yeah.

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And the professor gets up opening lecture
first class first, everything, and

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says, what's the purpose of business?

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Which is a highly appropriate question.

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Yeah.

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And long story short, the
answer she was looking for was

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maximizing profit to shareholders.

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Interesting.

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And like that fell flat for me, right?

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Yes.

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Yes.

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It fell flat because there's so many
stakeholders the business serves mm-hmm.

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That are, that don't give two
shits about profit to shareholders.

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How can that be the point?

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Right?

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Yeah.

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And it got sort of this journey going
for me where I was starting to really

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like, like, uh, meditate on this.

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And where I landed maybe slightly
utopian, is that maybe profit

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is an indicator of health.

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So it's critically important.

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Right.

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Of course.

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If your business is not
profitable, it will die.

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Yeah.

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And it will not be healthy and strong.

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Right.

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It's unhealthy.

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Yeah.

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And inversely, if it's profitable,
it will be flourishing, have

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longevity, all those things.

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But maybe that then leaves room that
for what is the actual purpose, right.

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Because our purpose on the planet
is not to be healthy, but we have

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to be healthy to manifest anything.

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Right.

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Um, is then how does the
business, uh, you know, make the

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world better in some fashion.

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Yeah, right.

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In some way.

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And that felt much more
comfortable for me.

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And then I started thinking, you know,
as one does, like where should I focus?

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Um, you know, the, the, the honest
story is, uh, my friends, this was

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now mind you, like 25 years ago.

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So the relationship, the legal
relationship with growing pot

153
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was very different than today.

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Yes.

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Um, but my friends up in Canada
started, you know, sort of growing

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some stuff in their basement.

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They couldn't really figure it out.

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I get invited up fall break freshman year,
uh, because they had, you know, the plants

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were working well and they were, when I
got into their, you know, their home and I

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asked them like, how did you guys do this?

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And they said we were taking
organic waste, feeding it to

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worms and using the worm poop to
make the plants, uh, flourish.

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That's fantastic.

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And that lit the initial spark for me
on making the, the topic of interest.

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And it's become now a, you
know, life's journey mm-hmm.

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On exploring waste.

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Because what I realized is that,
and have continued to realize is

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waste is filled with a phenomenal,
the idea of waste is filled with

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a phenomenal amount of anomalies.

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The anomaly I noticed right then and
there was, wait a minute, it's garbage.

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So you guys could get paid to take this.

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Then you can get paid for the output.

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Huh?

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Like you have negative raw material costs.

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Right.

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00:07:26,835 --> 00:07:29,925
In fact, an interesting thing, 'cause
I was drawing, you know, in econ class

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is lots of supply and demand curves
and garbage is the only commodity

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that you cannot draw on a traditional
supply and demand curve because it

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intersects in the negative quadrant.

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In other words, it has monster
supply, but negative demand.

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In other words, in Japan for example,
the legal definition of waste is

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something you pay to get rid of.

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Right, right, right.

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I mean, it's obvious when it's
said, but it's, you know, like

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there's this counterintuitive,
that's the legal definition.

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'cause otherwise, like if I
have an object, here's a pen.

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Mm-hmm.

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It's my property.

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00:08:01,665 --> 00:08:03,795
Even if it's empty, broken,
it's still my property.

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00:08:04,215 --> 00:08:05,295
I can give that to you.

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I can do all sorts of things.

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00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,885
Of course, it's the moment I say
I need to pay someone to remove

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it, that's when it's garbage.

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Right.

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00:08:12,555 --> 00:08:13,305
That's insane.

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00:08:13,425 --> 00:08:14,445
You think about that way.

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00:08:14,445 --> 00:08:14,925
Yeah.

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00:08:14,925 --> 00:08:14,935
Yeah.

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00:08:14,935 --> 00:08:17,475
It's, and, and it's not just,
that goes on and on, right?

200
00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:17,840
Mm-hmm.

201
00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,355
Like, uh, garbage is filled
with these phenomenal an

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00:08:20,355 --> 00:08:22,305
anomalies, which are interesting.

203
00:08:22,460 --> 00:08:22,880
Mm-hmm.

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00:08:22,965 --> 00:08:27,045
And if you can learn about them, it really
helps suddenly bring out the solution.

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00:08:27,045 --> 00:08:31,485
So, you know, uh, uh, another example,
right, just to sort of give you some more,

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is, um, isn't it interesting that the only
industry in the world that will legally

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00:08:34,905 --> 00:08:39,345
possess all of your property one day with
no exception, is the garbage industry?

208
00:08:39,675 --> 00:08:39,825
Yes.

209
00:08:39,825 --> 00:08:42,495
Legally possess, not be paid to transport.

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00:08:42,495 --> 00:08:42,585
Mm-hmm.

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00:08:42,825 --> 00:08:45,555
Not have some touch on
it, but legally possess.

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00:08:46,185 --> 00:08:49,935
And 99% of what we buy becomes
the property of a garbage company

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00:08:49,935 --> 00:08:51,105
within the year of purchase.

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00:08:52,755 --> 00:08:55,335
And for how big of, uh, how
big these statements are.

215
00:08:55,425 --> 00:08:59,955
It's also objectively the least innovative
industry per dollar of revenue it has.

216
00:09:00,195 --> 00:09:00,555
Why?

217
00:09:00,555 --> 00:09:01,185
Because it's.

218
00:09:01,454 --> 00:09:02,954
Smelly, nasty, gross.

219
00:09:02,954 --> 00:09:05,474
Not metaphorically, but
like in the flesh, right?

220
00:09:05,474 --> 00:09:05,535
Yeah.

221
00:09:05,535 --> 00:09:11,025
It's not a, a attractor of, you know,
sexiness and talent and all this jazz.

222
00:09:11,025 --> 00:09:11,295
Right.

223
00:09:11,625 --> 00:09:16,454
Um, it's also though an incredibly modern
idea, and I've written books on this

224
00:09:16,454 --> 00:09:20,834
topic, but it's only, uh, it was invented
in the 1950s, which is 75 years ago.

225
00:09:21,255 --> 00:09:21,765
Unreal.

226
00:09:21,854 --> 00:09:22,454
Isn't that wild?

227
00:09:22,454 --> 00:09:22,755
Right.

228
00:09:23,055 --> 00:09:27,074
Um, before this, you know, like,
yes, we, like all organisms, we

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00:09:27,074 --> 00:09:31,724
had outputs always, you know, from
chimpanzees to, to now, but our outputs

230
00:09:31,724 --> 00:09:35,324
up until the fifties were something
that nature has systems to digest.

231
00:09:35,564 --> 00:09:35,895
Yes.

232
00:09:35,925 --> 00:09:36,194
Right?

233
00:09:36,375 --> 00:09:36,494
Yes.

234
00:09:36,494 --> 00:09:38,869
Our chair that you and I are sitting
on would've been made from wood.

235
00:09:39,104 --> 00:09:40,275
You could throw it in the forest.

236
00:09:40,275 --> 00:09:41,505
Forest would've no problem with it.

237
00:09:41,505 --> 00:09:44,145
Today, it's probably some
polymer plastic that the forest

238
00:09:44,145 --> 00:09:45,285
is not gonna be so happy with.

239
00:09:45,435 --> 00:09:45,675
Right.

240
00:09:45,675 --> 00:09:48,734
Um, our clothing would've been made
from what, like cotton wool, maybe silk.

241
00:09:49,064 --> 00:09:53,265
Today 60% of the clothing we wear is some
petrochemical derivative, nylon, latex.

242
00:09:53,265 --> 00:09:53,324
Yeah.

243
00:09:53,324 --> 00:09:56,925
You know, uh, uh, um, different sort
of, you know, advanced materials.

244
00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,920
And we then exacerbate this by
consuming today 10 times more than

245
00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,200
we did just back then in the 1950s.

246
00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:04,260
Yeah.

247
00:10:04,740 --> 00:10:04,950
Right.

248
00:10:04,950 --> 00:10:05,670
And it goes on and on.

249
00:10:05,670 --> 00:10:09,150
And so this became really fascinating,
but you know, the truth is TerraCycle

250
00:10:09,150 --> 00:10:10,470
then started as a worm poop company.

251
00:10:10,530 --> 00:10:12,630
Uh, the logo I drew was Yeah.

252
00:10:12,630 --> 00:10:13,440
A worm originally.

253
00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:13,515
It's a worm.

254
00:10:13,515 --> 00:10:14,195
Yeah, that makes sense.

255
00:10:14,265 --> 00:10:14,795
It's a worm.

256
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,875
TerraCycle is earth cycle,
you know, worm poop.

257
00:10:17,875 --> 00:10:18,235
Right, right.

258
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:23,490
And uh, we first started the journey by
basically saying to solve waste, let's

259
00:10:23,490 --> 00:10:25,290
take garbage and make products out of it.

260
00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:25,710
Mm-hmm.

261
00:10:26,100 --> 00:10:29,520
Now the interesting, and it worked,
you know, the warm poop business grew.

262
00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,470
I dropped outta school
and, you know, off we went.

263
00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:36,900
But we had this big reflection, maybe, I
don't know, like four or five years in.

264
00:10:37,290 --> 00:10:41,940
And we're at that point, like a five,
$6 million small worm poop business of

265
00:10:41,940 --> 00:10:45,390
are we gonna really achieve our mission
by making products outta garbage?

266
00:10:45,390 --> 00:10:49,680
'cause what we started realizing is we
were trying to make the best product.

267
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,120
And even if we say it must be made
from waste, we would, as a result.

268
00:10:54,405 --> 00:10:58,064
Be taking certain organic ways to
feed the worms, but not other, we were

269
00:10:58,064 --> 00:11:01,214
taking certain use soda bottles to
package the worm poop, but not others.

270
00:11:01,214 --> 00:11:01,365
Right.

271
00:11:01,365 --> 00:11:04,214
We're picking the best of what is
technically garbage, and then we

272
00:11:04,214 --> 00:11:06,464
would never deal with the bulk of it.

273
00:11:06,495 --> 00:11:06,824
Right.

274
00:11:06,829 --> 00:11:07,120
Right.

275
00:11:07,305 --> 00:11:11,265
Um, and so that created
a massive shift for us.

276
00:11:11,265 --> 00:11:15,675
We decided to effectively close down
the worm poop business and refocus on

277
00:11:16,064 --> 00:11:19,814
making the garbage, the business hero,
not the, not the output, not the product.

278
00:11:20,204 --> 00:11:22,995
And that's sort of how we
landed on the, you know, where

279
00:11:22,995 --> 00:11:24,505
we are today and off we went.

280
00:11:24,675 --> 00:11:24,734
Yeah.

281
00:11:25,425 --> 00:11:26,175
That's incredible.

282
00:11:26,175 --> 00:11:30,584
And if you think about too, how society
has changed, even the products that we had

283
00:11:30,584 --> 00:11:35,115
back, you know, I'm, I'm in my forties,
so back when I was a, a kid, like the

284
00:11:35,115 --> 00:11:40,245
furnace, you know, your dishwasher, your
computers, they all lasted a long time.

285
00:11:40,395 --> 00:11:40,454
Yeah.

286
00:11:40,484 --> 00:11:44,444
They all lasted like, especially like
the long items, like the dish, uh,

287
00:11:44,474 --> 00:11:46,185
dishwasher and all that kinda stuff.

288
00:11:46,185 --> 00:11:49,245
You know, you're looking at 25, 30 years
before you're thinking of replacing it.

289
00:11:49,515 --> 00:11:52,905
Now you're probably looking at a life
cycle for those, like a dishwasher.

290
00:11:52,905 --> 00:11:55,185
I remember talking to some people
and they're like, you're looking at

291
00:11:55,185 --> 00:11:58,425
like three to five years, and as soon
as it's broken, it's more expensive

292
00:11:58,425 --> 00:11:59,895
to fix than it is to get a new one.

293
00:11:59,954 --> 00:12:01,245
Which it is insane to me.

294
00:12:01,245 --> 00:12:03,765
And they just, it's, I guess
it's, that's more of the economy.

295
00:12:03,765 --> 00:12:07,484
They want you to churn out and buy,
buy more new things, but that increases

296
00:12:07,484 --> 00:12:09,165
the amount of waste that we produce.

297
00:12:09,165 --> 00:12:09,464
Right.

298
00:12:09,974 --> 00:12:10,604
Massively.

299
00:12:10,604 --> 00:12:13,245
And what's so interesting, you're
referring like to this concept

300
00:12:13,245 --> 00:12:14,685
of planned obsolescence, right?

301
00:12:14,775 --> 00:12:15,224
Yes.

302
00:12:15,224 --> 00:12:17,354
Um, where things are planned to break.

303
00:12:17,685 --> 00:12:19,964
Because that's better
for the economy, right.

304
00:12:19,964 --> 00:12:22,930
To, for you to buy a new
dishwasher in three years mm-hmm.

305
00:12:23,015 --> 00:12:25,064
Than to maybe repair one in 20 years.

306
00:12:25,245 --> 00:12:25,875
That's the other thing.

307
00:12:25,875 --> 00:12:30,675
Not only is, are all these things
made, uh, like much poorer quality.

308
00:12:30,735 --> 00:12:32,474
Now you could argue
what's the virtue of that?

309
00:12:32,505 --> 00:12:34,605
'cause we're gonna shit
all over this for a moment.

310
00:12:34,605 --> 00:12:37,605
So let's talk about the positive, the
positives is that, that dishwasher

311
00:12:37,605 --> 00:12:39,314
is technically cheaper Yes.

312
00:12:39,344 --> 00:12:41,865
Than it was before relative
to your income, right?

313
00:12:41,865 --> 00:12:41,925
Yeah.

314
00:12:41,925 --> 00:12:44,985
Like the amount of labor hours
you have to put out to get

315
00:12:44,985 --> 00:12:46,454
the dishwasher has gone down.

316
00:12:46,694 --> 00:12:47,115
Yes.

317
00:12:47,145 --> 00:12:47,444
Right.

318
00:12:47,805 --> 00:12:52,185
Um, a good example is like a hundred
years ago, we would, it's 1920s.

319
00:12:52,185 --> 00:12:56,115
We would buy an average of two apparel
items a year and use them for 20 years.

320
00:12:56,175 --> 00:12:57,405
Uh, before disposal.

321
00:12:57,944 --> 00:13:03,855
Today it's 66 apparel items per year worn
on average, three times before disposal.

322
00:13:04,755 --> 00:13:06,765
But a key part of this is,
that's incredible, right?

323
00:13:06,765 --> 00:13:10,755
It why I bet you a wool sweater
would've been a lot more labor hours

324
00:13:10,755 --> 00:13:12,495
a hundred years ago than it is today.

325
00:13:12,900 --> 00:13:13,140
Right.

326
00:13:13,140 --> 00:13:15,420
Today it's what, 10 minutes of
labor Back then it could have been

327
00:13:15,420 --> 00:13:19,079
weeks of labor hours that you have
to, uh, earn to spend on that.

328
00:13:19,439 --> 00:13:19,589
Yeah.

329
00:13:19,589 --> 00:13:23,370
And now the planned off lessons thing
is so fascinating because I don't know,

330
00:13:23,430 --> 00:13:27,839
uh, it was actually proposed as a law
back in, I think it was in, in, in, in,

331
00:13:27,839 --> 00:13:31,829
in, in the UK at some point when the
economy was down, it was proposed as

332
00:13:31,829 --> 00:13:38,550
a regulation saying manufacturers must
take back or make break objects in short

333
00:13:38,550 --> 00:13:41,160
period of time to spur the economy, right.

334
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:42,360
To create more consumption.

335
00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,599
It never passed 'cause it
sort of grotesque, but it

336
00:13:45,599 --> 00:13:47,069
was proposed in that way.

337
00:13:47,099 --> 00:13:51,060
And I, and then what happened is companies
realized that, well, we should, you

338
00:13:51,060 --> 00:13:52,290
know, this is good business anyway.

339
00:13:52,290 --> 00:13:53,550
It doesn't have to be regulated.

340
00:13:53,579 --> 00:13:54,300
We should do that.

341
00:13:54,630 --> 00:13:57,045
Um, a very famous example of this is, uh.

342
00:13:58,020 --> 00:13:58,890
Incandescent light bulbs.

343
00:13:58,890 --> 00:14:02,880
Now they've been really disrupted by the
LED bulbs, but back in the day when we

344
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,870
would just buy incandescent bulbs, what
was it, like, 5,000 hours on a light bulb.

345
00:14:06,875 --> 00:14:06,964
Mm-hmm.

346
00:14:07,045 --> 00:14:07,165
Right?

347
00:14:07,165 --> 00:14:07,525
Mm-hmm.

348
00:14:07,785 --> 00:14:10,469
You know how long, when the incandescent
bulb was first commercialized,

349
00:14:10,469 --> 00:14:11,849
how long the light bulb lasted.

350
00:14:11,849 --> 00:14:13,020
This is like a hundred years ago.

351
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,930
There's still one burning in a
Florida, uh, uh, uh, firehouse that

352
00:14:18,930 --> 00:14:20,370
has not gone out in a hundred years.

353
00:14:20,370 --> 00:14:22,829
And what happened is the light
bulb manufacturers realized if we

354
00:14:22,829 --> 00:14:25,800
make light bulbs that last forever,
we're not gonna sell that many.

355
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:26,400
Yeah.

356
00:14:26,490 --> 00:14:30,540
So they created a cartel that
purposefully took down the, uh, life

357
00:14:30,540 --> 00:14:34,785
of a light bulb still to this day,
just so that they can sell more.

358
00:14:34,785 --> 00:14:34,829
Right.

359
00:14:35,849 --> 00:14:38,040
So, but it's important to
understand the tension.

360
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:38,550
Right.

361
00:14:38,609 --> 00:14:42,030
Of uh, because that's the only way one
can then figure out how to solve it.

362
00:14:42,030 --> 00:14:42,300
Right.

363
00:14:42,599 --> 00:14:44,910
We shifted our 'cause.

364
00:14:44,969 --> 00:14:46,620
We also vote for this, right?

365
00:14:46,709 --> 00:14:47,819
We buy these things.

366
00:14:47,819 --> 00:14:47,880
Yeah.

367
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:49,560
We vote for their existence.

368
00:14:49,859 --> 00:14:51,480
And what drives our vote?

369
00:14:52,005 --> 00:14:55,454
Is generally convenience,
convenience of low cost.

370
00:14:55,484 --> 00:14:57,885
'cause that conveniently allows
us to buy more things and

371
00:14:57,885 --> 00:14:59,175
convenience in all other ways.

372
00:14:59,175 --> 00:15:01,035
Fast delivery, you know, easy.

373
00:15:01,365 --> 00:15:05,145
Um, mending is less convenient
than buying new, you know, that's

374
00:15:05,145 --> 00:15:08,505
why we don't cobble our shoes
or, uh, darn our socks or mm-hmm.

375
00:15:08,745 --> 00:15:09,854
Fix anything anymore.

376
00:15:09,885 --> 00:15:10,155
Right.

377
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:10,400
Right.

378
00:15:10,875 --> 00:15:16,935
Um, and, and, but, and that's that,
uh, uh, uh, really drives then increase

379
00:15:16,935 --> 00:15:18,675
of economy, so they go hand in hand.

380
00:15:18,675 --> 00:15:20,474
Everyone's happy from a
business point of view.

381
00:15:20,505 --> 00:15:20,994
Right, right.

382
00:15:21,464 --> 00:15:24,045
It just creates this phenomenal
externality, not just of

383
00:15:24,045 --> 00:15:24,760
waste mind you, but like.

384
00:15:25,395 --> 00:15:27,075
Every environmental issue we face.

385
00:15:27,075 --> 00:15:27,135
Yeah.

386
00:15:27,315 --> 00:15:31,515
Climate change, uh, species diversity
loss, which I think in the ocean is

387
00:15:31,515 --> 00:15:34,065
manifesting way more than it is on land.

388
00:15:34,095 --> 00:15:34,995
'cause we don't see it.

389
00:15:35,025 --> 00:15:35,265
Right.

390
00:15:35,270 --> 00:15:36,020
We don't even know about it.

391
00:15:36,210 --> 00:15:36,860
Like half of that.

392
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:37,220
Right.

393
00:15:37,220 --> 00:15:39,795
No, it's, I bet you if we say what
is the World Wildlife Fund said

394
00:15:39,795 --> 00:15:43,425
that we lost 50% of our, uh, species
diversity one in the past 50 years.

395
00:15:43,575 --> 00:15:43,845
Yeah.

396
00:15:43,875 --> 00:15:46,185
I bet you that's more
terrestrial than it is aquatic.

397
00:15:46,185 --> 00:15:46,305
Yes.

398
00:15:46,425 --> 00:15:48,465
And I bet you if you want
aquatic it would be worse.

399
00:15:48,675 --> 00:15:49,725
Could be in the nineties.

400
00:15:49,785 --> 00:15:50,180
Yeah, exactly.

401
00:15:50,180 --> 00:15:51,015
Could be in the nineties.

402
00:15:51,075 --> 00:15:51,255
Right.

403
00:15:51,255 --> 00:15:54,615
So all these externalities
are linked to one thing only.

404
00:15:55,095 --> 00:15:55,215
Yeah.

405
00:15:55,215 --> 00:15:58,575
Us voting for them by buying
things that create extraction.

406
00:15:59,145 --> 00:15:59,625
Yes.

407
00:15:59,805 --> 00:16:00,135
Right.

408
00:16:00,225 --> 00:16:00,435
Yeah.

409
00:16:00,495 --> 00:16:04,575
And, uh, I think that's the key thing
to reckon with in this whole gluttonous

410
00:16:04,575 --> 00:16:07,785
consumption of cheap crap right now.

411
00:16:07,785 --> 00:16:11,655
But with that, like, it's hard
to look at the system that we're

412
00:16:11,655 --> 00:16:15,075
in right now and because a lot of
people will say like, you know.

413
00:16:16,515 --> 00:16:19,035
I guess the re they, they'll say, first
of all, I guess like we look at this

414
00:16:19,035 --> 00:16:21,495
waste, we, we know that we're in a
system where there's a lot of waste.

415
00:16:21,555 --> 00:16:21,795
Yes.

416
00:16:22,215 --> 00:16:27,825
Um, so, and, and we know recycling
on a, on a grand scale is not

417
00:16:27,825 --> 00:16:29,205
what we hoped it would be.

418
00:16:29,205 --> 00:16:29,265
No.

419
00:16:29,295 --> 00:16:31,245
It's not what we, it was sold to be.

420
00:16:31,335 --> 00:16:31,635
Right?

421
00:16:31,755 --> 00:16:32,205
Yes, that's right.

422
00:16:32,235 --> 00:16:35,565
Um, but TerraCycle takes it a
little differently 'cause you

423
00:16:35,565 --> 00:16:40,335
guys are not just recycling to
make the same products, right?

424
00:16:40,335 --> 00:16:42,645
Like say a a water bottle
to back into a water bottle.

425
00:16:42,885 --> 00:16:45,825
You're actually taking it and
making different products.

426
00:16:45,885 --> 00:16:49,815
Uh, I think remember when I first
discovered TerraCycle was like

427
00:16:50,115 --> 00:16:52,095
park benches and things like that?

428
00:16:52,275 --> 00:16:52,485
Yep.

429
00:16:53,235 --> 00:16:54,495
Where did that idea come from?

430
00:16:54,495 --> 00:16:57,825
Like, to be like, oh, we're just gonna
make cr like brand new products from

431
00:16:57,825 --> 00:17:00,195
these, from these like waste items.

432
00:17:00,225 --> 00:17:03,255
Well, if I'm, I, I'm gonna take a step
back to answer your question, right?

433
00:17:03,315 --> 00:17:03,645
Sure.

434
00:17:03,675 --> 00:17:07,395
Because you mentioned, uh,
that, you know, recycling isn't

435
00:17:07,395 --> 00:17:08,085
what we thought it would be.

436
00:17:08,085 --> 00:17:09,225
And I think you're precisely right.

437
00:17:09,225 --> 00:17:10,695
But I wanna peel that open a little bit.

438
00:17:10,695 --> 00:17:11,115
Yeah, please.

439
00:17:11,115 --> 00:17:12,195
That will frame.

440
00:17:12,525 --> 00:17:13,635
Everything we talk about.

441
00:17:13,635 --> 00:17:13,905
Right.

442
00:17:14,025 --> 00:17:14,325
Perfect.

443
00:17:14,325 --> 00:17:18,075
And this was one of those academic
things that, you know, we dove into

444
00:17:18,075 --> 00:17:20,775
when we shifted away from being a
worm poop business as to what really

445
00:17:20,775 --> 00:17:22,275
makes something recycled gold.

446
00:17:22,575 --> 00:17:22,725
Right?

447
00:17:22,725 --> 00:17:22,785
Yeah.

448
00:17:22,785 --> 00:17:24,105
Like actually get recycled.

449
00:17:24,615 --> 00:17:28,905
And here is the problem is that we
have a misunderstanding of the system.

450
00:17:28,965 --> 00:17:30,735
That's why it's not what
we hoped it would be.

451
00:17:31,365 --> 00:17:34,305
We perceive, and this has been, you
know, we've studied this in our consumer

452
00:17:34,305 --> 00:17:37,455
insights department, you know, with
consumers all over the world, everywhere

453
00:17:37,755 --> 00:17:43,245
and unanimously people view recycling as a
public service similar to say healthcare.

454
00:17:43,245 --> 00:17:43,335
Mm-hmm.

455
00:17:43,755 --> 00:17:44,740
Um, or education.

456
00:17:44,740 --> 00:17:45,100
Mm-hmm.

457
00:17:45,180 --> 00:17:50,325
And the concept in healthcare is
if, if, uh, if the cure exists

458
00:17:50,325 --> 00:17:53,025
or the therapy exists to help
you, it will be given to you.

459
00:17:53,265 --> 00:17:53,445
Yes.

460
00:17:53,450 --> 00:17:53,540
You know?

461
00:17:53,540 --> 00:17:53,660
Yes.

462
00:17:53,685 --> 00:17:55,875
Irrelevant of the cost and your income.

463
00:17:55,905 --> 00:17:57,975
It's just, I mean, maybe
America's a bit different, but

464
00:17:57,975 --> 00:17:59,115
like everywhere else, right?

465
00:17:59,205 --> 00:17:59,265
Yeah.

466
00:17:59,415 --> 00:18:02,895
You, you know, it's, uh, you, it's
almost like a moral obligation to,

467
00:18:03,285 --> 00:18:04,995
you know, treat whatever is the issue.

468
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:05,300
Mm-hmm.

469
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:06,300
And.

470
00:18:07,125 --> 00:18:10,305
The difference though is
recycling is not a public service.

471
00:18:10,485 --> 00:18:14,295
It is carried out unanimously, with
no exception by only for-profit

472
00:18:14,295 --> 00:18:15,465
companies everywhere in the world.

473
00:18:15,915 --> 00:18:18,705
There is no law that tells
those for-profit companies that

474
00:18:18,705 --> 00:18:19,905
they have to recycle anything.

475
00:18:20,210 --> 00:18:20,560
Right?

476
00:18:20,565 --> 00:18:20,715
Right.

477
00:18:20,805 --> 00:18:22,395
They choose what gets recycled.

478
00:18:22,695 --> 00:18:27,255
And so really when you deep go below
the surface, what makes a cardboard

479
00:18:27,255 --> 00:18:31,635
box or an aluminum can recycled in
most countries that have recycling,

480
00:18:31,995 --> 00:18:35,205
it's not that it's special, it's
because it's profitable to recycle.

481
00:18:36,375 --> 00:18:42,525
Mm. And what makes 95% of objects,
uh, uh, not recyclable, like, uh,

482
00:18:42,705 --> 00:18:44,715
you know, if we just look at each
other are clothing, the, yeah.

483
00:18:44,805 --> 00:18:45,615
Electronics.

484
00:18:45,675 --> 00:18:46,515
Uh, this pen.

485
00:18:46,515 --> 00:18:50,145
You know, I mean, most things in
our, in our, uh, in our video not

486
00:18:50,145 --> 00:18:54,375
recycled is not that it can't be,
it just costs more to collect and

487
00:18:54,375 --> 00:18:55,785
process and the results are worth.

488
00:18:56,805 --> 00:18:57,255
Interesting.

489
00:18:57,705 --> 00:18:58,185
That's it.

490
00:18:58,185 --> 00:18:58,905
It's just economics.

491
00:18:58,905 --> 00:19:02,205
That's like, another way to think about
this is how can you make an object?

492
00:19:02,205 --> 00:19:04,395
Go Circular is, I think
only one of two ways.

493
00:19:04,485 --> 00:19:06,435
Imagine if I put an object
in front of you, right.

494
00:19:07,155 --> 00:19:09,915
Either that object has to have
enough intrinsic value in it that

495
00:19:09,915 --> 00:19:12,284
you're like, yeah, thank you for
putting this object in front of me.

496
00:19:12,524 --> 00:19:12,824
You know?

497
00:19:12,824 --> 00:19:12,885
Yeah.

498
00:19:12,885 --> 00:19:15,524
If I put a bar of gold in front of
you, I'm sure you'd be thrilled.

499
00:19:15,524 --> 00:19:15,794
Right.

500
00:19:15,794 --> 00:19:16,995
Or, uh, whatever.

501
00:19:16,995 --> 00:19:17,205
Right.

502
00:19:17,715 --> 00:19:21,495
But if I put something that isn't
valuable in front of you, well, the

503
00:19:21,495 --> 00:19:22,754
only way to do it is to pay you.

504
00:19:22,845 --> 00:19:26,145
And at some point when I pay you
enough, your happiness will get to the

505
00:19:26,145 --> 00:19:28,754
point where you'll happily deal with
that object and give it a new life.

506
00:19:28,754 --> 00:19:28,845
Right.

507
00:19:28,995 --> 00:19:29,685
No matter what.

508
00:19:29,685 --> 00:19:30,225
It's Right.

509
00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:30,500
Right.

510
00:19:30,794 --> 00:19:33,254
And that is the foundational point.

511
00:19:33,254 --> 00:19:36,195
So when people say recycling is
broken, it's because they put

512
00:19:36,195 --> 00:19:39,584
things in the recycling bin that
they hope will be recycled, that

513
00:19:39,584 --> 00:19:41,115
don't, that aren't recycled.

514
00:19:41,534 --> 00:19:44,715
And that's because the way
it's communicated implies that

515
00:19:44,715 --> 00:19:46,060
that'll happen, which is poor.

516
00:19:46,060 --> 00:19:46,260
Mm-hmm.

517
00:19:46,345 --> 00:19:47,145
It's bad framing.

518
00:19:47,564 --> 00:19:50,445
Um, a really good example of this
is, say those clothing bins, because

519
00:19:50,445 --> 00:19:53,054
this is really tied to, you know,
pollution in the ocean, right?

520
00:19:53,054 --> 00:19:53,145
Mm-hmm.

521
00:19:53,385 --> 00:19:56,860
Like we put our used clothing
into those charity bins.

522
00:19:56,895 --> 00:19:58,185
They may be in front of a school.

523
00:19:58,185 --> 00:19:58,245
Yeah.

524
00:19:58,245 --> 00:20:01,095
Or a, or a, uh, church, uh,
you know, whatever it may be.

525
00:20:01,574 --> 00:20:01,635
Yeah.

526
00:20:01,635 --> 00:20:02,715
And what do we think happens?

527
00:20:02,715 --> 00:20:04,995
We think what happens is
our clothing will then be.

528
00:20:05,385 --> 00:20:08,355
Gone to a good use, someone
in need will use it.

529
00:20:08,685 --> 00:20:10,155
But here's the reality, right?

530
00:20:10,575 --> 00:20:14,655
That entire business is driven by
the resale value of the clothing.

531
00:20:15,195 --> 00:20:15,315
Mm-hmm.

532
00:20:15,705 --> 00:20:16,185
Period.

533
00:20:16,575 --> 00:20:20,115
Because it costs more to recycle clothing
than the resulting materials are worse.

534
00:20:20,115 --> 00:20:21,585
There's no economics to recycle it.

535
00:20:21,645 --> 00:20:23,745
It is just driven by the resale value.

536
00:20:23,745 --> 00:20:27,345
Now in America, if we put a bunch
of used clothing, remember that's

537
00:20:27,345 --> 00:20:28,995
our garbage that we don't want.

538
00:20:29,595 --> 00:20:29,745
Yeah.

539
00:20:29,805 --> 00:20:34,305
Only 1% of it can be resold
in America because it's stuff

540
00:20:34,305 --> 00:20:35,385
we didn't want to begin with.

541
00:20:35,415 --> 00:20:36,015
You know what I mean?

542
00:20:36,020 --> 00:20:36,615
Right, right.

543
00:20:36,615 --> 00:20:40,545
So the sorting centers that take this
will sort out the brand name goods,

544
00:20:40,545 --> 00:20:44,175
the Patagonia jackets, you know, the
Levi jeans that are in good quality.

545
00:20:44,385 --> 00:20:44,505
Mm-hmm.

546
00:20:44,955 --> 00:20:47,805
Ironically, probably shouldn't have
been thrown into the bin to begin with.

547
00:20:48,225 --> 00:20:50,805
That will get resold at a
vintage store in the us.

548
00:20:50,865 --> 00:20:55,815
99% gets bailed and sold by
the kilo to emerging countries.

549
00:20:56,415 --> 00:21:00,075
Now, let's say you and I are
the vintage shop, use clothing

550
00:21:00,075 --> 00:21:02,655
shop in, uh, you know, Ethiopia.

551
00:21:02,970 --> 00:21:05,670
Yeah, we're gonna be excited
to buy this stuff 'cause we're

552
00:21:05,670 --> 00:21:07,020
buying clothing by the kilo.

553
00:21:07,020 --> 00:21:08,610
Way cheaper than making way cheaper.

554
00:21:08,610 --> 00:21:08,855
Yeah, yeah.

555
00:21:08,860 --> 00:21:09,390
Way cheaper.

556
00:21:09,660 --> 00:21:13,950
But we're gonna buy at eyes wide open
that about two thirds no one's gonna buy.

557
00:21:14,580 --> 00:21:14,760
Hmm.

558
00:21:14,790 --> 00:21:16,650
But one third they're gonna buy.

559
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,080
And that makes the
business economics work.

560
00:21:19,740 --> 00:21:19,800
Yeah.

561
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,440
But what do we do with
that Two thirds We dump it.

562
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,390
And so what I'm trying to highlight
here is that is exactly how it works.

563
00:21:27,390 --> 00:21:30,750
Now the problem is the person putting
it into the goodwill bin, you know,

564
00:21:30,750 --> 00:21:35,910
in Kansas City, you know, uh uh,
thinks everything is gonna be reused.

565
00:21:35,910 --> 00:21:37,980
'cause the bin shouldn't just
say, this is a reuse bin.

566
00:21:37,980 --> 00:21:42,810
It should say, if the clothing is has a
market on it and someone's gonna buy it,

567
00:21:42,810 --> 00:21:44,150
it will certainly be reused for sure.

568
00:21:44,150 --> 00:21:45,990
And if it isn't, it's gonna be dumped.

569
00:21:45,990 --> 00:21:46,050
Yeah.

570
00:21:46,140 --> 00:21:48,840
That would be the accurate
way to describe that process.

571
00:21:49,950 --> 00:21:51,240
And I think that's the essence.

572
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,800
Once, once you view recycling as actually
just urban mining for material value,

573
00:21:56,190 --> 00:21:57,360
everything makes sense from there.

574
00:21:58,545 --> 00:22:01,845
That is so interesting and it's, you
know, something we've talked about a lot

575
00:22:01,845 --> 00:22:05,504
on this podcast is, is the fact is like
if it's, if it's recyclable, there's

576
00:22:05,504 --> 00:22:08,925
a demand out there for that product at
some point, whether it's in its true

577
00:22:08,925 --> 00:22:11,355
form or whether it's in another form.

578
00:22:11,655 --> 00:22:14,925
Um, so, so for for TerraCycle, yeah.

579
00:22:15,195 --> 00:22:20,085
When you first came out with this, this
vision to say, okay, we're gonna take

580
00:22:20,085 --> 00:22:23,295
products and we're gonna make another
product out of this, or waste, sorry,

581
00:22:23,295 --> 00:22:26,115
I should say waste from products and
we're gonna make another product.

582
00:22:26,325 --> 00:22:27,615
How did you choose.

583
00:22:28,185 --> 00:22:31,155
The waste, was it waste that
nobody else was gonna take?

584
00:22:31,185 --> 00:22:31,335
Yeah.

585
00:22:31,395 --> 00:22:36,045
Or was it waste that you knew was
gonna fit within a, within like in a,

586
00:22:36,105 --> 00:22:37,965
like would do well in a park bench?

587
00:22:38,235 --> 00:22:39,285
Well, it's a good question, right?

588
00:22:39,285 --> 00:22:42,915
So like when we first began in the worm
poop days, we were a consumer product

589
00:22:42,915 --> 00:22:47,595
company making objects, uh, products from
waste, from fertilizer to bird feeder,

590
00:22:47,595 --> 00:22:49,035
then later backpacks and whatever.

591
00:22:49,035 --> 00:22:51,225
And there we said, we
wanna make a backpack.

592
00:22:51,255 --> 00:22:53,925
What's the right waste to make
it from Maybe we sew together

593
00:22:53,925 --> 00:22:55,695
juice pouches and make a backpack.

594
00:22:55,935 --> 00:22:58,905
So we then started as a classic
consumer good thought process

595
00:22:59,085 --> 00:23:00,255
where the product is the hero.

596
00:23:00,555 --> 00:23:00,855
Yeah.

597
00:23:00,975 --> 00:23:04,035
And what waste inputs can
we make the product from.

598
00:23:04,035 --> 00:23:04,575
Mm-hmm.

599
00:23:04,770 --> 00:23:08,055
When we realized that that is limited
because we're gonna pick only the

600
00:23:08,055 --> 00:23:12,315
best garbage, we switched it and
said the garbage has to be the hero.

601
00:23:12,705 --> 00:23:16,305
And remember the issue
is solely economics.

602
00:23:16,335 --> 00:23:18,435
Everything in the world can be recycled.

603
00:23:18,615 --> 00:23:18,795
It.

604
00:23:18,795 --> 00:23:19,995
I've not seen a waste stream.

605
00:23:19,995 --> 00:23:23,745
That cannot be, the only times it cannot
be is if there's a law preventing it.

606
00:23:23,745 --> 00:23:27,255
A bloody glove from an operating
room legally can't be recycled.

607
00:23:27,315 --> 00:23:27,555
Right.

608
00:23:27,615 --> 00:23:28,035
Gotcha.

609
00:23:28,155 --> 00:23:28,425
Yeah.

610
00:23:28,455 --> 00:23:29,805
But other than that, they all can.

611
00:23:29,865 --> 00:23:30,075
Yeah.

612
00:23:30,075 --> 00:23:31,935
It's just a question of money.

613
00:23:32,310 --> 00:23:32,610
Right.

614
00:23:32,610 --> 00:23:33,750
So I'll give you an example.

615
00:23:33,750 --> 00:23:36,780
We're the world's largest coffee
capsule, recycler, and recycling.

616
00:23:36,780 --> 00:23:39,390
A coffee capsule is always
gonna come at a cost.

617
00:23:39,570 --> 00:23:40,830
It's never gonna make money.

618
00:23:40,830 --> 00:23:42,840
And that's, again, 95% of goods.

619
00:23:43,260 --> 00:23:46,680
So it, because the money is the
issue, what we first said is, let's

620
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,850
go to stakeholders that are willing
to pay and fund for recycling to

621
00:23:50,850 --> 00:23:52,260
exist on certain waste streams.

622
00:23:52,260 --> 00:23:54,810
And the intuitive stakeholder
could be like the people who

623
00:23:54,810 --> 00:23:56,220
made it, whose logo is on it.

624
00:23:56,220 --> 00:23:56,430
Right.

625
00:23:56,430 --> 00:23:58,140
It could be the retailer who sold it.

626
00:23:58,500 --> 00:24:03,660
Um, it could be maybe where it's
consumed like a, um, a pool may

627
00:24:03,660 --> 00:24:07,830
care about swimsuit and goggle
recycling disproportionately, yeah.

628
00:24:07,830 --> 00:24:08,070
Right.

629
00:24:08,190 --> 00:24:11,310
They're certainly not gonna care
about recycling bicycle helmets.

630
00:24:11,355 --> 00:24:12,120
Right, right, right.

631
00:24:12,540 --> 00:24:15,690
And so it's about finding those
stakeholders who are willing to fund.

632
00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:17,400
Now, when you have the funding.

633
00:24:17,715 --> 00:24:18,915
Let's just take an example.

634
00:24:18,915 --> 00:24:19,905
Like cigarette butts, right?

635
00:24:19,905 --> 00:24:21,135
Most littered item in the world.

636
00:24:21,225 --> 00:24:21,405
Oh my gosh.

637
00:24:21,405 --> 00:24:24,225
So there could be the tobacco
company, it could be a retailer

638
00:24:24,225 --> 00:24:27,105
that might sell cigarettes, it could
be, uh, maybe a city, you know?

639
00:24:27,105 --> 00:24:27,195
Mm-hmm.

640
00:24:27,435 --> 00:24:30,764
Because they have high rates of litter
on these, uh, or other stakeholders.

641
00:24:31,485 --> 00:24:35,445
Then we bring that into our r and d
organization and we first make sure that

642
00:24:35,445 --> 00:24:37,574
we can find a recycling solution for it.

643
00:24:37,905 --> 00:24:39,554
Um, that's before we set up a program.

644
00:24:39,675 --> 00:24:42,855
And generally speaking, what we're
looking at is can we take the thing apart

645
00:24:43,215 --> 00:24:45,135
and can we reconstitute the materials?

646
00:24:45,165 --> 00:24:47,865
So for example, in cigarette butts,
the breakthrough that really helped

647
00:24:47,865 --> 00:24:50,564
enable that was the ability to
separate the paper that's glued

648
00:24:50,564 --> 00:24:51,975
onto the filter from the filter.

649
00:24:52,485 --> 00:24:55,844
'cause the filter's plastic and the,
and the paper's paper fiber, right?

650
00:24:55,844 --> 00:24:55,965
Yep.

651
00:24:56,445 --> 00:24:59,115
And, uh, once we have that,
we have a process set up.

652
00:24:59,115 --> 00:25:01,485
Then we start building the program
and getting it bigger and bigger.

653
00:25:02,115 --> 00:25:04,635
As that happens, we don't
stay there on the process.

654
00:25:04,635 --> 00:25:08,534
We keep trying to refine the
process to get to the gold standard.

655
00:25:08,879 --> 00:25:11,310
Which is, it goes right back
into what it started with.

656
00:25:11,340 --> 00:25:13,439
That's the endpoint we try to get to.

657
00:25:13,590 --> 00:25:18,419
If there is the appetite from the
stakeholders and uh, you know, 'cause that

658
00:25:18,419 --> 00:25:20,280
takes a lot of resource to achieve that.

659
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,669
So we will, you know, let's take
shoe recycling is a good example.

660
00:25:23,730 --> 00:25:23,820
Mm-hmm.

661
00:25:23,879 --> 00:25:26,639
When we first started, we figured
out how can we take the shoe apart,

662
00:25:26,939 --> 00:25:29,939
separate all the components, make
sure we can reconstitute those.

663
00:25:29,945 --> 00:25:33,030
And, and there a big breakthrough
was how do we take shredded leather

664
00:25:33,330 --> 00:25:35,159
and make new rolls of leather?

665
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:35,580
Right?

666
00:25:35,639 --> 00:25:36,000
Uh, yeah.

667
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,230
And we did that by shredding them.

668
00:25:37,230 --> 00:25:40,500
And then you can sort of hear them
together to create a new leather compound.

669
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:43,770
Almost like, um, you know, in wine
corks you have like a normal natural

670
00:25:43,770 --> 00:25:47,610
cork, but then you may see a. A natural
cork, but it's made from lots of

671
00:25:47,610 --> 00:25:49,260
little pieces like a Birkenstock sole.

672
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:49,530
Yep.

673
00:25:49,710 --> 00:25:50,640
That sort of effect.

674
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:50,850
Right.

675
00:25:51,060 --> 00:25:51,390
Okay.

676
00:25:51,570 --> 00:25:54,840
Now, once we had that, then the question
was how do we go more than that?

677
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,900
And then we started working with shoe
companies to turn the shoes into things

678
00:25:57,900 --> 00:25:59,520
they care about, like sports surfaces.

679
00:25:59,730 --> 00:26:03,330
And just last year with asics,
we launched with them their

680
00:26:03,330 --> 00:26:04,950
first shoe made from you shoes.

681
00:26:05,250 --> 00:26:07,620
But that is the highest
technical achievement, right?

682
00:26:07,620 --> 00:26:07,680
Yeah.

683
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,395
Like that is really tough and requires a
lot of, that's a lot of research and Yeah.

684
00:26:11,395 --> 00:26:14,040
And a lot of investment on part of the
partner of who like, of course, really

685
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,860
needs to lean in because it's, I can't
do that without them wanting to lean in.

686
00:26:16,980 --> 00:26:17,190
Right?

687
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:17,640
Yeah.

688
00:26:17,645 --> 00:26:17,875
Yeah.

689
00:26:18,060 --> 00:26:19,830
But that's sort of the journey we take.

690
00:26:20,190 --> 00:26:24,120
Um, uh, but the, the big white
elephant in the room is that it's

691
00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:26,190
all about the money flow, right?

692
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:32,190
Um, someone has to fund it because in
parallel to this advancement in, uh,

693
00:26:32,190 --> 00:26:34,800
in all sorts of advanced materials
that nature doesn't have systems for,

694
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,220
and us consuming quite a bit within
all that, the biggest mega trend

695
00:26:38,220 --> 00:26:40,350
in object design is cost reduction.

696
00:26:40,650 --> 00:26:42,180
Everything is cheaper tomorrow than.

697
00:26:42,855 --> 00:26:43,305
Everything.

698
00:26:43,695 --> 00:26:43,785
Mm-hmm.

699
00:26:44,025 --> 00:26:48,585
And as you reduce costs and things
there, the, the value that you can

700
00:26:48,585 --> 00:26:50,145
recover intrinsically goes down.

701
00:26:51,375 --> 00:26:51,615
Hmm.

702
00:26:52,035 --> 00:26:52,455
Right?

703
00:26:52,725 --> 00:26:52,875
Yeah.

704
00:26:52,875 --> 00:26:55,845
The thing I'm putting in front
of you looks less, less, less and

705
00:26:55,845 --> 00:26:57,495
less like a gold bar every day.

706
00:26:58,725 --> 00:26:59,355
Right, right, right.

707
00:27:00,735 --> 00:27:01,575
That's so cool.

708
00:27:01,665 --> 00:27:02,655
That is so cool.

709
00:27:02,835 --> 00:27:04,785
So how do you decide.

710
00:27:06,104 --> 00:27:09,735
What items can be made from the
waste that you're collecting or

711
00:27:09,735 --> 00:27:11,804
even what waste you collect to make?

712
00:27:11,804 --> 00:27:14,054
Like do you still, where does
it, is it like, is it a chicken

713
00:27:14,054 --> 00:27:15,495
and egg kind of situation?

714
00:27:15,495 --> 00:27:17,834
Like what product do you
ha do you want to make?

715
00:27:18,074 --> 00:27:19,245
And then what waste would be best?

716
00:27:19,245 --> 00:27:22,725
No, it's, there's a, it's, it's actually
very linear, so I'll walk you through it.

717
00:27:22,725 --> 00:27:22,784
Yeah.

718
00:27:22,784 --> 00:27:25,665
So the first part is, 'cause
the issue is a money flow.

719
00:27:25,784 --> 00:27:28,215
The first question is, where
is their willingness to fund?

720
00:27:28,574 --> 00:27:32,594
So if, for example, we have willingness
from a great company like lip rip

721
00:27:32,594 --> 00:27:35,955
curl to fund wetsuit, recycling,
then we're gonna focus on wetsuits.

722
00:27:35,955 --> 00:27:39,885
If inversely we can't find anyone to
wanna fund bicycle helmet recycling,

723
00:27:40,304 --> 00:27:44,084
that won't be the focus because without
the money flow, nothing happens, right?

724
00:27:44,084 --> 00:27:46,875
'cause everything costs more
than the results are worth.

725
00:27:47,084 --> 00:27:52,844
So you, you depend on the vision
and the effort put willing, being

726
00:27:52,844 --> 00:27:58,995
willing to be put in by a specific
company or investor to invest in that.

727
00:27:59,594 --> 00:27:59,834
Yes.

728
00:27:59,834 --> 00:28:02,594
In order to even start even
thinking about doing something,

729
00:28:02,594 --> 00:28:03,735
it needs to be some stakeholders.

730
00:28:03,735 --> 00:28:06,165
If you take wetsuits, it could
be like rip curls a partner.

731
00:28:06,165 --> 00:28:07,754
So it could be the wetsuit
manufacturer, right.

732
00:28:07,784 --> 00:28:09,824
But it could be maybe
a dive shop, you know?

733
00:28:09,854 --> 00:28:10,094
Right.

734
00:28:10,094 --> 00:28:12,375
It could be a diving coalition.

735
00:28:12,375 --> 00:28:15,495
It could be any stakeholder, but it's
gonna be someone who cares more about

736
00:28:15,495 --> 00:28:17,205
wetsuits than the average bear, you know?

737
00:28:17,685 --> 00:28:18,074
Okay.

738
00:28:18,405 --> 00:28:20,145
Then once, sorry, go ahead.

739
00:28:20,149 --> 00:28:20,360
Go ahead.

740
00:28:20,364 --> 00:28:21,044
No, no, please go ahead.

741
00:28:21,195 --> 00:28:23,804
Well, I was gonna say like, what's, I
was gonna say that like the next step

742
00:28:23,804 --> 00:28:28,360
is like, are they collecting the waste
or are they just that's, that's, no, no.

743
00:28:28,364 --> 00:28:28,485
Great.

744
00:28:28,485 --> 00:28:28,665
Yeah.

745
00:28:28,665 --> 00:28:31,514
So then the next step comes,
which is, okay, now that we know

746
00:28:31,514 --> 00:28:32,745
that there's interest, right?

747
00:28:32,745 --> 00:28:32,925
Yeah.

748
00:28:33,014 --> 00:28:36,000
Then we think through,
'cause what are the costs?

749
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:36,375
They pay?

750
00:28:36,375 --> 00:28:38,264
They pay for whatever it
costs to collect the waste.

751
00:28:38,475 --> 00:28:38,625
Yeah.

752
00:28:38,625 --> 00:28:41,715
What it costs to convert that into
a sellable material minus what

753
00:28:41,715 --> 00:28:43,094
the sellable material is worth.

754
00:28:43,334 --> 00:28:43,425
Right.

755
00:28:43,425 --> 00:28:44,114
That's the cost.

756
00:28:44,445 --> 00:28:47,475
So then we think through
how do we collect and.

757
00:28:47,850 --> 00:28:51,389
Collection is not just about how do you
collect as cheaply as possible mm-hmm.

758
00:28:51,629 --> 00:28:54,600
Collection's also about how do
you create as much value for

759
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,070
whoever's paying for it as possible.

760
00:28:56,070 --> 00:28:57,750
So take the, the wetsuit example.

761
00:28:58,230 --> 00:29:01,770
A really good business logic for
someone like Rip Curl is, wait a

762
00:29:01,770 --> 00:29:05,280
minute, if I offer wetsuit recycling,
maybe I run a promotion saying we

763
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,460
rip curl will recycle any brand of
wetsuit, but when you do, we'll give

764
00:29:08,460 --> 00:29:10,470
you whatever, 10% off your new one.

765
00:29:10,470 --> 00:29:11,340
But of our brand.

766
00:29:11,460 --> 00:29:11,730
Right.

767
00:29:11,970 --> 00:29:12,090
Gotcha.

768
00:29:12,090 --> 00:29:14,490
'cause as long as you can
build in some business logic,

769
00:29:14,490 --> 00:29:15,750
the money flow gets bigger.

770
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:16,440
Right?

771
00:29:16,470 --> 00:29:16,560
Mm-hmm.

772
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,610
And then these programs can get
incredibly large, like uh, you know, in

773
00:29:20,610 --> 00:29:24,240
some cases, like in uh, coffee capsule
recycling in Canada, we collect back

774
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,000
30% of what, uh, of what is consumed.

775
00:29:27,060 --> 00:29:27,660
That's amazing.

776
00:29:27,660 --> 00:29:30,420
But it's also one of the best
drivers of which brand you choose.

777
00:29:31,290 --> 00:29:31,440
Yes.

778
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:32,910
And those are connected concepts.

779
00:29:32,910 --> 00:29:35,070
'cause money flow comes
from business in many cases.

780
00:29:35,220 --> 00:29:35,550
Yeah.

781
00:29:35,670 --> 00:29:37,680
So then we think about the collection.

782
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,070
So in that example, the collection for
wetsuits would probably be in retailers.

783
00:29:41,070 --> 00:29:43,230
'cause that's where you're gonna
make your next purchasing decision.

784
00:29:44,415 --> 00:29:47,175
Then we also think about how do we
make the collection as convenient

785
00:29:47,385 --> 00:29:48,675
and as affordable as possible?

786
00:29:48,675 --> 00:29:51,855
So it's easy for someone to take
part and it doesn't break the bank.

787
00:29:51,915 --> 00:29:52,185
Right?

788
00:29:52,515 --> 00:29:52,875
Yeah.

789
00:29:53,055 --> 00:29:56,175
So for, yeah, like for, I was gonna
say, for example, uh, we mentioned it,

790
00:29:56,235 --> 00:30:00,345
uh, right before we started to record,
uh, you know, Arbon is a company.

791
00:30:00,345 --> 00:30:00,405
Yeah.

792
00:30:00,495 --> 00:30:02,085
Uh, that, that I, that I use.

793
00:30:02,085 --> 00:30:05,175
I have these little FS sticks, which
is like a little green tea extract, and

794
00:30:05,175 --> 00:30:09,315
they come in individual packages, plastic
packages, and there's a, there's a program

795
00:30:09,315 --> 00:30:13,575
with TerraCycle where I can, you know,
basically when I'm finished, I, that

796
00:30:13,575 --> 00:30:19,980
comes with a, a. Basically like a, a,
a, um, a label that to go to TerraCycle

797
00:30:19,980 --> 00:30:24,270
plus a package and you just stuff
that package as fa as much as you can.

798
00:30:24,420 --> 00:30:28,350
You know, you, you, uh, you know, secure
it, you zip it up and then you send

799
00:30:28,350 --> 00:30:31,800
it to Purolator and Purolator brings
it over, sends it over to you guys.

800
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,290
And sometimes I'll have like three or four
and I'll just send, like, I'll save 'em

801
00:30:34,290 --> 00:30:35,640
all up and then I'll just send 'em off.

802
00:30:35,820 --> 00:30:36,570
Makes it easy for me.

803
00:30:36,570 --> 00:30:37,890
I literally just drop it off.

804
00:30:37,890 --> 00:30:39,060
I don't have to do anything else.

805
00:30:39,060 --> 00:30:41,910
It's probably one of the
simplest processes for me.

806
00:30:41,910 --> 00:30:45,900
And then I know that the, the product
that I use is gonna be used for

807
00:30:45,900 --> 00:30:48,870
something better than, what if I
just threw it out in the garbage?

808
00:30:49,215 --> 00:30:49,845
Exactly right.

809
00:30:49,845 --> 00:30:49,995
Yeah.

810
00:30:49,995 --> 00:30:52,905
So that's a, yeah, and there's dozens of
different methods of collection, right?

811
00:30:52,905 --> 00:30:52,965
Yeah.

812
00:30:52,965 --> 00:30:55,395
It could be what you described,
which would be a mail-in model.

813
00:30:55,395 --> 00:30:57,975
It could be public
locations, like, uh, right.

814
00:30:58,004 --> 00:31:01,095
I think in Canada where something
like 50% of all the schools, uh,

815
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,455
uh, uh, like, you know, uh, public
schools, K through 12 schools use

816
00:31:04,455 --> 00:31:05,985
our programs and, and many other.

817
00:31:05,985 --> 00:31:07,455
That's, uh, uh, such examples.

818
00:31:08,085 --> 00:31:11,055
Then we think through, and this goes
to your question on what do we make

819
00:31:11,415 --> 00:31:15,165
it is first we have to make sure that
we can recycle it, that we can take it

820
00:31:15,165 --> 00:31:18,764
apart and reconstitute the materials,
and then honestly, to make the price

821
00:31:18,764 --> 00:31:21,885
as cheap as possible, we sell the
materials to whoever pays the most.

822
00:31:22,305 --> 00:31:22,665
Yeah.

823
00:31:23,085 --> 00:31:26,415
And to us, it's not, you know, that's
the key because that's gonna get them

824
00:31:26,445 --> 00:31:28,754
the program to be as big as possible.

825
00:31:28,965 --> 00:31:30,524
Now we don't stop there.

826
00:31:30,675 --> 00:31:34,815
Then we go, uh, uh, back to the
company, whether it's Arbon or Rip

827
00:31:34,815 --> 00:31:37,905
Curl or whichever one, and say,
now that this is all functioning.

828
00:31:38,940 --> 00:31:41,910
How do we really elevate the
waste and try to get it to go

829
00:31:41,910 --> 00:31:45,240
right back into your system so it
becomes as closed loop as possible?

830
00:31:45,270 --> 00:31:45,540
Yeah.

831
00:31:45,780 --> 00:31:49,170
That may start with deployments,
like marketing deployments.

832
00:31:49,170 --> 00:31:52,470
Like with Colgate, we've built, I
think two dozen playgrounds from

833
00:31:52,470 --> 00:31:55,680
toothpaste, tubes and toothbrushes,
or with Procter and Gamble from their

834
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,950
waist, every Olympic podium since
the Tokyo Olympics and, and so Wow.

835
00:31:58,950 --> 00:31:59,880
Really that's, yeah.

836
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:01,080
It could be that sort of stuff.

837
00:32:01,470 --> 00:32:01,650
Wow.

838
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,170
But then we say, okay, how do
we get it more into your system?

839
00:32:04,170 --> 00:32:08,430
Maybe then we start making the displays
their products sit on, or the fixtures

840
00:32:08,430 --> 00:32:12,810
for their stores with the end goal to
be right back into what it began from.

841
00:32:14,850 --> 00:32:19,080
That is so, and that's the journey that
our r and DT team takes over many years.

842
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:19,140
Yeah.

843
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,800
To make sure that we can formulate
the waste, make it behave in the

844
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,680
way that it needs to, to be able
to create that, that outcome.

845
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,410
Because these products were
never designed with the idea of

846
00:32:28,410 --> 00:32:30,450
being recyclable into themselves.

847
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:36,480
So your r and d team is, it just consists
of a number of different, like, uh,

848
00:32:36,510 --> 00:32:40,860
engineers and, and product engineers
and marketers and, and so forth.

849
00:32:41,015 --> 00:32:42,420
It's, it's mostly polymers.

850
00:32:42,485 --> 00:32:45,600
Uh, uh, it's, it's not just polymer,
but it's like material scientists.

851
00:32:45,660 --> 00:32:48,990
So it's People specialize in
alloys or, or plastics Yeah.

852
00:32:48,990 --> 00:32:50,730
Or polymers or fibers or glass.

853
00:32:50,970 --> 00:32:54,120
We have a whole laboratory, you know, a
big one out here where it's, because it's

854
00:32:54,120 --> 00:33:00,630
about the ability to take the, the, the
waste and then process it in a way that

855
00:33:00,630 --> 00:33:02,340
it can be used for a certain application.

856
00:33:03,180 --> 00:33:03,660
Makes sense.

857
00:33:03,660 --> 00:33:03,870
Right.

858
00:33:04,290 --> 00:33:09,150
A very simple example of this would be if
you collect, let's say potato chip bags.

859
00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:13,830
The color of the plastic at the end
that you get is going to be green.

860
00:33:14,130 --> 00:33:16,290
It's gonna be green, because
when you mix all the inks

861
00:33:16,290 --> 00:33:18,210
together, what comes out is green.

862
00:33:18,210 --> 00:33:21,000
It's sort of like when kids have
paint and they mix it all together,

863
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,380
like Play-Doh, it becomes brown.

864
00:33:22,445 --> 00:33:22,665
Yes.

865
00:33:22,665 --> 00:33:24,720
In the world of recycling,
green is the brown.

866
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:24,960
Right.

867
00:33:25,410 --> 00:33:28,830
And now you need to make that color
something that someone actually

868
00:33:28,830 --> 00:33:30,060
wants to use in their product.

869
00:33:30,345 --> 00:33:33,855
So that's a very simple example of
like the coloration, but it could be

870
00:33:34,275 --> 00:33:38,205
the how fast the plastic melts, how
strong is it, how bendable is it?

871
00:33:38,205 --> 00:33:40,395
Those are more sophisticated
characteristics.

872
00:33:41,325 --> 00:33:42,765
Oh, that's incredible.

873
00:33:42,945 --> 00:33:47,895
It must feel great to, to be able
to run a company that has such

874
00:33:47,895 --> 00:33:49,905
benefits to the environment, right?

875
00:33:49,905 --> 00:33:53,625
That has such like, like, it must
make you feel good, like to do this.

876
00:33:53,805 --> 00:33:57,225
Especially when you're, you're able to
find something new and have a new partner

877
00:33:57,225 --> 00:33:59,235
to be like, oh, okay, this is great.

878
00:33:59,265 --> 00:34:03,825
Are you always, you and your team, are
you guys always thinking of different

879
00:34:03,945 --> 00:34:07,515
companies that you can partner with based
on like the material that they have and

880
00:34:07,515 --> 00:34:12,255
like, oh, if we had this material, like
if we had this waste of like, if this

881
00:34:12,255 --> 00:34:15,735
running shoe, you know, goes to waste
this, like what's in it will really

882
00:34:15,735 --> 00:34:17,865
help us make, you know, such and such.

883
00:34:17,870 --> 00:34:20,505
So I would say like, do you guys
always think about that inverted.

884
00:34:21,014 --> 00:34:21,194
Okay.

885
00:34:21,194 --> 00:34:22,154
And what you said, right?

886
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:22,379
Oh, okay.

887
00:34:22,379 --> 00:34:25,154
When we were at the beginning of the worm
poop days, that's how we thought, yeah,

888
00:34:25,304 --> 00:34:28,034
we wanna make x What do we need right now?

889
00:34:28,034 --> 00:34:31,185
We think, what are the things that,
uh, what are the waste problems?

890
00:34:31,935 --> 00:34:34,395
How do we set up a program
on that waste problem?

891
00:34:34,455 --> 00:34:39,074
And then what can happen to it to
make sure that it continues to flow?

892
00:34:39,344 --> 00:34:43,514
So the, the logic shifted in our
early days, it was what do we wanna

893
00:34:43,514 --> 00:34:45,225
make and what do we need to, yeah.

894
00:34:45,495 --> 00:34:48,194
What are things that are creating
waste issues and how can we

895
00:34:48,194 --> 00:34:50,895
collect them and make sure that
something new is made from them?

896
00:34:50,924 --> 00:34:51,375
It shifted.

897
00:34:51,375 --> 00:34:51,435
Yeah.

898
00:34:51,614 --> 00:34:53,654
It looks in the surface identical, right?

899
00:34:53,654 --> 00:34:57,165
But it's what you know, which
is, uh, what is the tail that

900
00:34:57,165 --> 00:34:58,274
wags the dog, if you will.

901
00:34:58,484 --> 00:34:58,634
Yeah.

902
00:34:58,634 --> 00:35:01,845
And in our world today, it's
about there is this, whatever

903
00:35:01,845 --> 00:35:03,524
it is, there is a waste issue.

904
00:35:03,734 --> 00:35:07,274
How do we help bring solution
to that issue using the

905
00:35:07,274 --> 00:35:08,384
power of business to do it?

906
00:35:08,895 --> 00:35:12,404
So, so you're at a point of like, how
do we make the biggest impact to Yes.

907
00:35:12,915 --> 00:35:17,085
Waste systems, like, you know, in terms
of recycling, let me ask you this.

908
00:35:17,115 --> 00:35:17,265
Yeah.

909
00:35:17,265 --> 00:35:20,175
And, and this is, and I don't know
if you have an answer to this because

910
00:35:20,415 --> 00:35:23,535
it, you know, this would solve a
lot, obviously we can't get it.

911
00:35:23,535 --> 00:35:28,185
But imagine if we could go out
and, uh, you know, and like

912
00:35:28,185 --> 00:35:30,884
microplastics is probably the biggest
problem in the ocean right now.

913
00:35:30,884 --> 00:35:31,035
Massive.

914
00:35:31,035 --> 00:35:32,115
It's like a soup, right?

915
00:35:32,115 --> 00:35:32,565
As you know.

916
00:35:32,595 --> 00:35:32,685
Yes.

917
00:35:33,045 --> 00:35:39,435
Um, if we could dredge, or not dredge, but
like net, like a, a water column mm-hmm.

918
00:35:39,675 --> 00:35:45,015
And collect, you know, say tons
and tons and tons of microplastics.

919
00:35:45,045 --> 00:35:45,255
Yeah.

920
00:35:45,795 --> 00:35:48,765
Is that something that you'd be like,
okay, so here's the, you know, somebody's

921
00:35:48,765 --> 00:35:53,685
willing to do this if we can go out and
not that it'll solve the waste problem.

922
00:35:53,715 --> 00:35:53,925
Yeah.

923
00:35:53,955 --> 00:35:57,855
But we could at least recoup some
of it or have a, a reason to recoup.

924
00:35:58,005 --> 00:35:58,215
Yes.

925
00:35:58,215 --> 00:36:00,555
And mind you, it would probably
be extremely expensive with boats

926
00:36:00,555 --> 00:36:01,365
and everything like that, but.

927
00:36:02,205 --> 00:36:06,855
How do we bring, make, like how do we take
this out to make a, a valuable product?

928
00:36:06,855 --> 00:36:09,485
Can you make products from
microplastics, I guess is the question?

929
00:36:09,485 --> 00:36:09,540
Yes.

930
00:36:09,540 --> 00:36:10,275
The answer is yes.

931
00:36:10,305 --> 00:36:10,575
Right.

932
00:36:10,605 --> 00:36:10,755
Okay.

933
00:36:10,755 --> 00:36:14,895
So not only have we been able to take
microplastics and recycle them into

934
00:36:14,895 --> 00:36:18,405
new materials we've done with the world
wildlife and we did a massive project in

935
00:36:18,405 --> 00:36:20,565
our Japanese division around ghost nets.

936
00:36:20,955 --> 00:36:22,305
Where collecting ghost nets Yes.

937
00:36:22,305 --> 00:36:23,595
And turning them into new products.

938
00:36:23,595 --> 00:36:28,605
We did, uh, uh, uh, a big thing with head
and shoulders where we released a head and

939
00:36:28,605 --> 00:36:30,375
shoulders bottle made from beach plastic.

940
00:36:30,765 --> 00:36:33,435
We've done a lot, you know,
of these sort of activities.

941
00:36:33,765 --> 00:36:35,475
Um, they can all be done.

942
00:36:35,475 --> 00:36:36,135
Mm-hmm.

943
00:36:36,141 --> 00:36:41,145
What's the white elephant in the room in
this example is something like the soup

944
00:36:41,145 --> 00:36:45,795
of microplastics that is contaminated
all of our, uh, aquatic systems.

945
00:36:46,455 --> 00:36:46,755
Right?

946
00:36:47,865 --> 00:36:53,805
Uh, there is not, uh, the money flow
attached to cleaning that up is negligible

947
00:36:54,075 --> 00:36:55,605
relative to the size of the issue.

948
00:36:56,025 --> 00:36:56,340
Yes.

949
00:36:56,340 --> 00:37:00,345
It would be trillions of dollars
to clean that up and because.

950
00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:03,270
No one knows the genesis
of that microplastic.

951
00:37:03,270 --> 00:37:06,270
Like did it come from a chip bag
or did it come from a soda bottle?

952
00:37:06,270 --> 00:37:07,319
Or where did it come from?

953
00:37:07,620 --> 00:37:12,299
The stakeholders to fund don't,
don't feel that responsibility.

954
00:37:12,330 --> 00:37:12,629
Right.

955
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,609
Um, you know, to do so, or don't
feel that if they invest that much

956
00:37:17,609 --> 00:37:21,120
money into it, they're gonna somehow,
you know, get some value out of it.

957
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,730
That's enough to, you know, to,
to blend to the size of the issue.

958
00:37:23,730 --> 00:37:23,790
Yeah.

959
00:37:24,180 --> 00:37:27,569
That's the big issue in, in, uh, in,
in the whole ocean plastic space.

960
00:37:27,569 --> 00:37:27,839
Right.

961
00:37:28,109 --> 00:37:32,460
The other key issue is the impact
is bigger the more we go upstream.

962
00:37:32,819 --> 00:37:37,410
So for example, it's the most expensive
per se, ton of plastic to clean

963
00:37:37,410 --> 00:37:39,870
up, uh, uh, uh, the microplastics.

964
00:37:40,109 --> 00:37:43,710
Yes, it is slightly less
expensive to clean up the floating

965
00:37:43,710 --> 00:37:45,029
fractions that may be at the top.

966
00:37:45,029 --> 00:37:47,759
You'll notice that a lot of the ocean
cleanup projects that are out there and

967
00:37:47,759 --> 00:37:51,420
they're all doing phenomenal work, they're
more thinking about the stuff at the top.

968
00:37:51,424 --> 00:37:51,785
Mm-hmm.

969
00:37:51,865 --> 00:37:54,450
Because you can get more
kilos out per dollar.

970
00:37:55,290 --> 00:37:55,589
Right.

971
00:37:55,589 --> 00:37:55,890
Gotcha.

972
00:37:55,950 --> 00:37:56,490
Um.

973
00:37:57,105 --> 00:38:01,335
And 95% of ocean plastic is the soup.

974
00:38:01,365 --> 00:38:04,935
Below 5% or so is the stuff
floating at the top, which we get

975
00:38:04,935 --> 00:38:06,225
all the visuals from the photos.

976
00:38:06,230 --> 00:38:06,319
Mm-hmm.

977
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:06,410
Mm-hmm.

978
00:38:06,585 --> 00:38:10,455
So one step more upstream, which is
like the work of our foundation is

979
00:38:10,455 --> 00:38:13,845
to not collect it in the ocean, but
collect it in the canals and waterways,

980
00:38:13,845 --> 00:38:15,645
but before it ends up in the ocean.

981
00:38:15,765 --> 00:38:16,154
Yeah.

982
00:38:16,214 --> 00:38:18,674
And then of course that's,
that's even more affordable.

983
00:38:18,674 --> 00:38:20,984
'cause you know, it's easier to
do that where you have, like in

984
00:38:20,984 --> 00:38:24,045
Thailand, what we do in Bangkok is
I have a lot of like river traps.

985
00:38:24,345 --> 00:38:24,435
Mm-hmm.

986
00:38:24,674 --> 00:38:24,765
Right?

987
00:38:24,855 --> 00:38:28,335
Uh, that are somewhat connected to land
and then into the river that skim it off.

988
00:38:28,335 --> 00:38:31,455
We can very easily drive a
vehicle, empty it out versus

989
00:38:31,455 --> 00:38:32,685
doing all that through boats.

990
00:38:32,984 --> 00:38:33,315
Yeah.

991
00:38:33,585 --> 00:38:33,690
Yeah.

992
00:38:33,690 --> 00:38:36,674
And then, and so what you'll notice,
and then as you go further upstream.

993
00:38:36,975 --> 00:38:39,915
It's even more cost effective
to, you know, to collect it

994
00:38:39,915 --> 00:38:40,935
before it ends up in the river.

995
00:38:41,265 --> 00:38:41,775
Of course.

996
00:38:41,865 --> 00:38:45,944
And the object, uh, and that's not
just on the collection cost, but also

997
00:38:45,944 --> 00:38:50,865
on the val of, of the cost you have
to spend to process versus what, um,

998
00:38:50,955 --> 00:38:52,215
what you can sell it for at the end.

999
00:38:52,634 --> 00:38:56,145
Because the, to process, let's
say the, the most hardest stuff,

1000
00:38:56,145 --> 00:38:58,875
like the true microplastic soup
is exceptionally expensive.

1001
00:38:58,904 --> 00:39:02,924
'cause it's filled with salt and
algae and all this stuff, and

1002
00:39:02,924 --> 00:39:04,665
the output is very low grade.

1003
00:39:05,730 --> 00:39:06,080
Right?

1004
00:39:06,085 --> 00:39:06,435
Right.

1005
00:39:06,495 --> 00:39:10,125
So, 'cause remember the costs are
collection and processing minus value.

1006
00:39:10,395 --> 00:39:10,575
Yeah.

1007
00:39:10,575 --> 00:39:13,424
And that equation is the
worst for microplastics.

1008
00:39:13,575 --> 00:39:13,875
That's it.

1009
00:39:13,875 --> 00:39:15,404
It's a multi-trillion dollar issue.

1010
00:39:15,410 --> 00:39:15,720
Mm-hmm.

1011
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:15,920
Now.

1012
00:39:17,490 --> 00:39:20,640
You know, I think my theory
on this, by the way, uh, is

1013
00:39:20,700 --> 00:39:22,919
that in the end it'll be okay.

1014
00:39:23,145 --> 00:39:23,564
Mm-hmm.

1015
00:39:23,850 --> 00:39:26,910
All of this, because the world
is phenomenal at inventing

1016
00:39:26,910 --> 00:39:28,439
digestive systems for everything.

1017
00:39:29,100 --> 00:39:30,990
Now, I don't know if you know the
story of coal, but that's like

1018
00:39:30,990 --> 00:39:32,189
a great example of this, right.

1019
00:39:32,189 --> 00:39:35,399
You know, um, what was it like
trees emerged onto, onto the

1020
00:39:35,399 --> 00:39:40,290
earth, but there was no fungus or
bacteria or, uh, digestive systems

1021
00:39:40,770 --> 00:39:42,660
to digest the trees when they died.

1022
00:39:42,660 --> 00:39:43,109
So what happened?

1023
00:39:43,109 --> 00:39:45,240
The trees died and just stayed on land.

1024
00:39:45,540 --> 00:39:45,689
Yeah.

1025
00:39:45,689 --> 00:39:48,509
Enough of these piled on top of
each other and pressurized, and

1026
00:39:48,509 --> 00:39:49,740
that's how coal got created.

1027
00:39:50,069 --> 00:39:50,189
Right.

1028
00:39:50,189 --> 00:39:53,970
But coal was only created for about
a 50 to a hundred million year span,

1029
00:39:54,210 --> 00:39:58,830
because after about 50 to a hundred
million years, the nature evolved

1030
00:39:58,830 --> 00:40:00,540
its digestive system for trees.

1031
00:40:01,169 --> 00:40:04,980
And now no tree produces coal
because it will rot and Yeah.

1032
00:40:04,980 --> 00:40:07,230
Uh, decompose before ever.

1033
00:40:07,230 --> 00:40:10,290
It has an opportunity to be
pressurized into, into coal.

1034
00:40:10,350 --> 00:40:11,100
And I think.

1035
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,310
Over that same timeframe, the
earth will clean itself up.

1036
00:40:14,310 --> 00:40:17,580
It will naturally evolve digestive
systems as we see certain bacteria

1037
00:40:17,580 --> 00:40:18,930
eating plastics and so on.

1038
00:40:19,170 --> 00:40:20,609
It'll just take a hundred million years.

1039
00:40:20,790 --> 00:40:20,879
Mm-hmm.

1040
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:26,009
And a huge amount of damage will have
been produced, you know, uh, uh, you

1041
00:40:26,009 --> 00:40:27,629
know, in that, in that timeframe.

1042
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,629
I think that's why the
challenge is on humanity.

1043
00:40:30,629 --> 00:40:30,870
Right.

1044
00:40:30,870 --> 00:40:37,920
I think for us, I think our key challenge
is can we rise above sort of animalistic,

1045
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,220
you know, tendencies to curb consumption?

1046
00:40:41,460 --> 00:40:44,790
'cause that's very basic, animalistic,
you know, sort of tendency.

1047
00:40:45,089 --> 00:40:45,359
Yeah.

1048
00:40:45,420 --> 00:40:51,060
And can we clean up our own mess and not
rely on some other system to clean it up?

1049
00:40:51,060 --> 00:40:55,410
And let's note that neither of those
are animalistic tendencies, right?

1050
00:40:55,410 --> 00:40:55,529
Mm-hmm.

1051
00:40:55,536 --> 00:40:58,109
When an animal poops in the forest,
it's not gonna bother cleaning it up.

1052
00:40:58,379 --> 00:40:58,529
No.

1053
00:40:58,529 --> 00:40:58,950
You know?

1054
00:40:59,105 --> 00:40:59,325
No.

1055
00:40:59,339 --> 00:41:02,910
Uh, if it, if it dies in the forest,
it's not gonna clean up the body.

1056
00:41:02,915 --> 00:41:03,165
Right.

1057
00:41:03,180 --> 00:41:03,390
Right.

1058
00:41:03,450 --> 00:41:06,450
Another one, you know, and it
cannot control its appetite.

1059
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:06,569
Mm-hmm.

1060
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:08,910
Yeah.

1061
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:09,870
That's so cool.

1062
00:41:10,185 --> 00:41:12,960
I, I, I think it's, uh, you know,
interesting, like you've already

1063
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,860
talking about prevention of getting
pla like plastic into the ocean.

1064
00:41:17,279 --> 00:41:19,890
Uh, you know, you talk
about TerraCycle already has

1065
00:41:19,890 --> 00:41:21,509
systems, uh, was it in Bangkok?

1066
00:41:21,509 --> 00:41:22,230
Is that what you mentioned?

1067
00:41:22,259 --> 00:41:22,410
Yes.

1068
00:41:22,410 --> 00:41:22,540
Yeah, yeah.

1069
00:41:22,540 --> 00:41:23,130
In Bangkok.

1070
00:41:23,430 --> 00:41:25,170
Now, obviously we can't
have systems everywhere.

1071
00:41:25,259 --> 00:41:25,410
Yeah.

1072
00:41:25,410 --> 00:41:27,480
It's, it's difficult 'cause
it's, it's a huge investment.

1073
00:41:27,810 --> 00:41:32,910
So did you just, like, does TerraCycle
choose based on where the investment's

1074
00:41:32,910 --> 00:41:34,410
willing to be made at this point?

1075
00:41:34,410 --> 00:41:34,470
Yeah.

1076
00:41:34,475 --> 00:41:36,210
Is that, is that, I mean, simple, simple.

1077
00:41:36,210 --> 00:41:39,210
Uh, I think of two parts where
we react and where we invest.

1078
00:41:39,210 --> 00:41:39,450
Right?

1079
00:41:39,630 --> 00:41:39,839
Right.

1080
00:41:39,839 --> 00:41:43,529
So the answer, why are we
in Thailand doing that work?

1081
00:41:43,589 --> 00:41:45,540
Because that's where we got
investment to do it, right.

1082
00:41:45,630 --> 00:41:49,799
If the, if the capital that
emerged said to us, we care about

1083
00:41:49,799 --> 00:41:51,420
Indonesia, then we'd be there.

1084
00:41:51,420 --> 00:41:52,110
Yeah, yeah.

1085
00:41:52,410 --> 00:41:52,860
Right.

1086
00:41:53,009 --> 00:41:56,430
We really, because the problem is the
same, doesn't matter, you know, it's

1087
00:41:56,430 --> 00:41:58,200
a, it's a floating piece of garbage.

1088
00:41:59,055 --> 00:42:01,424
One is the same as the other,
the negative externalities.

1089
00:42:01,845 --> 00:42:04,485
But then the other part is
where we choose to invest and

1090
00:42:04,485 --> 00:42:05,775
our biggest investment to date.

1091
00:42:05,775 --> 00:42:08,444
And we've put about, you know,
uh, $50 million into this.

1092
00:42:08,444 --> 00:42:12,735
So for our size, that's a huge number
has been in how do we bring out reuse?

1093
00:42:12,735 --> 00:42:12,825
Mm-hmm.

1094
00:42:13,185 --> 00:42:18,075
Because recycling is a solution to
the symptom of waste, but it's not

1095
00:42:18,075 --> 00:42:19,485
solving waste at the root cause.

1096
00:42:19,485 --> 00:42:21,944
It is not eliminating the idea of waste.

1097
00:42:22,005 --> 00:42:26,595
And if you think about it, right, like
back before the 1950s when we cobbled our

1098
00:42:26,595 --> 00:42:31,455
shoes and darned our socks and mended our
clothing and all this stuff, we also, you

1099
00:42:31,455 --> 00:42:33,285
know, our soda was in reusable bottles.

1100
00:42:33,285 --> 00:42:35,115
Our motor oil was in reusable bottles.

1101
00:42:35,685 --> 00:42:39,520
Um, every, you know, like everything
was much more repair, reuse based.

1102
00:42:39,580 --> 00:42:41,895
And we believe that is
what we need to return to.

1103
00:42:42,404 --> 00:42:42,765
Yeah.

1104
00:42:42,915 --> 00:42:47,835
We, we can only do so though
by matching the convenience and

1105
00:42:47,835 --> 00:42:50,595
affordability of disposability or.

1106
00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:54,600
It will always be something
we aspire to, but never do.

1107
00:42:54,660 --> 00:42:54,930
You know?

1108
00:42:54,930 --> 00:42:54,940
Yeah.

1109
00:42:54,940 --> 00:42:57,600
We read the article about it, we
listen to the podcast about it.

1110
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,010
We're like, how cool is that?

1111
00:42:59,370 --> 00:43:02,250
But then we still shop normally when
we're at our local Walmart, you know?

1112
00:43:02,340 --> 00:43:02,845
Right, right.

1113
00:43:02,850 --> 00:43:04,860
Um, and that's what
we're really focused on.

1114
00:43:04,860 --> 00:43:07,230
And for us, you know, reuse
has, it's been challenging.

1115
00:43:07,230 --> 00:43:12,690
You know, we ran pilots in, uh, uh,
Canada, the us, uh, uk, Japan, France,

1116
00:43:12,900 --> 00:43:16,530
with the world's biggest retailers,
biggest brands, and it really struggled.

1117
00:43:16,530 --> 00:43:17,760
But in France, it's taken off.

1118
00:43:17,790 --> 00:43:22,170
You know, today you can go into almost
any major French supermarket nationally.

1119
00:43:22,380 --> 00:43:25,770
400 different products are available
to you in fully reusable packaging

1120
00:43:25,770 --> 00:43:29,190
through our system, like your
Nutella or your whatever, shampoo

1121
00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:30,840
or, uh, you know, whatever it may be.

1122
00:43:31,350 --> 00:43:33,000
And you buy it, you pay a deposit.

1123
00:43:33,420 --> 00:43:36,480
When you're done, you drop it
off, it gets cleaned, filled back

1124
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:37,710
up, and sold to someone else.

1125
00:43:38,220 --> 00:43:43,380
Why do you think it worked in
France, but not say in Canada?

1126
00:43:43,770 --> 00:43:45,030
I, I can tell you crystal clear.

1127
00:43:45,660 --> 00:43:46,320
Regulation.

1128
00:43:46,530 --> 00:43:47,160
Regulation.

1129
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:48,390
Regulation.

1130
00:43:48,420 --> 00:43:48,750
Yeah.

1131
00:43:49,050 --> 00:43:51,420
In France there's the right
regulatory environment.

1132
00:43:51,420 --> 00:43:54,240
And the good news is
Western Europe, UK Yeah.

1133
00:43:54,270 --> 00:43:57,600
Are, uh, are, are, are enabling
that same regulatory environment.

1134
00:43:57,780 --> 00:43:57,900
Gotcha.

1135
00:43:57,900 --> 00:43:59,640
Uh, so we're gonna see the
expansion go in that region.

1136
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,040
And what the regs are doing is
enabling carrots and sticks.

1137
00:44:02,430 --> 00:44:05,940
The, the, the stick is, they
are mandating it in 2027.

1138
00:44:05,940 --> 00:44:09,120
French supermarkets must dedicate
five to 10% of their floor

1139
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:10,890
space to reusable offerings.

1140
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:11,730
Okay.

1141
00:44:11,790 --> 00:44:12,360
Which is huge.

1142
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:12,900
Yeah.

1143
00:44:12,930 --> 00:44:17,370
But they're also giving carrots right
now, the, uh, EPR or extended producer

1144
00:44:17,370 --> 00:44:18,480
responsibility assistance, that's it.

1145
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:23,370
The packaging taxes on packaging that's
produced has to dedicate 5% of its, uh,

1146
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,750
revenue, which is about a hundred million
dollars, uh, in funding to subsidize

1147
00:44:27,750 --> 00:44:29,340
reuse systems until they get bigger.

1148
00:44:29,820 --> 00:44:30,150
Right.

1149
00:44:30,450 --> 00:44:35,700
And that is the role of regs because in
the end there are, I, I sort of view two

1150
00:44:35,700 --> 00:44:39,960
types of sustainability activities that
a, that a, that an organization can do.

1151
00:44:40,110 --> 00:44:40,410
Right.

1152
00:44:40,890 --> 00:44:42,510
Or anyone, probably even an individual.

1153
00:44:42,750 --> 00:44:44,460
There is the ones that just save us money.

1154
00:44:44,505 --> 00:44:47,115
Um, Hey, turn off your light
bulbs when you leave your home.

1155
00:44:47,115 --> 00:44:47,760
Yes, yes.

1156
00:44:47,765 --> 00:44:51,075
Um, put your air conditioning thermostat
down when there's no one there.

1157
00:44:51,315 --> 00:44:55,065
Um, drive an electric car and don't
pay for petrol, you know, or gas.

1158
00:44:55,065 --> 00:44:55,275
Right.

1159
00:44:55,485 --> 00:45:00,765
Those things are, are cost savings that
are synonymous with sustainability.

1160
00:45:00,795 --> 00:45:03,015
'cause you're just being
smarter with resources.

1161
00:45:03,045 --> 00:45:03,255
Mm-hmm.

1162
00:45:03,975 --> 00:45:05,595
Everyone should do that.

1163
00:45:05,655 --> 00:45:06,160
Oh my God.

1164
00:45:06,285 --> 00:45:08,415
Like, but that's not true sustainability.

1165
00:45:08,415 --> 00:45:11,985
That's just being not, uh, you
know, uh, like, like not being

1166
00:45:11,985 --> 00:45:12,945
wasteful, you know what I mean?

1167
00:45:12,945 --> 00:45:13,005
Yeah.

1168
00:45:13,005 --> 00:45:15,825
Like just using resources,
uh, without wasting them.

1169
00:45:16,275 --> 00:45:16,515
Yeah.

1170
00:45:16,605 --> 00:45:21,345
The real sustainability questions, I
think are the ones that, uh, require

1171
00:45:21,405 --> 00:45:26,205
sacrifice, that require us to stop
doing something we like to do, you know?

1172
00:45:26,210 --> 00:45:26,240
Yes.

1173
00:45:26,245 --> 00:45:29,115
Like, um, let's not eat animal protein.

1174
00:45:29,715 --> 00:45:29,895
Yes.

1175
00:45:29,925 --> 00:45:31,215
Let's not eat big bodies.

1176
00:45:31,215 --> 00:45:32,295
Thinking of aquatic examples.

1177
00:45:32,295 --> 00:45:34,245
Let's not eat, uh, endangered species.

1178
00:45:34,245 --> 00:45:34,335
Mm-hmm.

1179
00:45:34,575 --> 00:45:37,365
Let's not eat big bodied fish
that are gonna go extinct.

1180
00:45:37,425 --> 00:45:38,025
Uh, yeah.

1181
00:45:38,205 --> 00:45:39,345
Let's, you know what I mean?

1182
00:45:39,345 --> 00:45:40,845
Those are sacrifices.

1183
00:45:41,205 --> 00:45:41,295
Mm-hmm.

1184
00:45:41,535 --> 00:45:42,825
And the sacrifice.

1185
00:45:43,650 --> 00:45:45,690
Is where regulation needs to come.

1186
00:45:45,690 --> 00:45:45,750
Yeah.

1187
00:45:46,380 --> 00:45:50,520
Because that's the only way
at scale things will change.

1188
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,069
You're always gonna find the
person who, you know, like does

1189
00:45:53,069 --> 00:45:54,720
it or organization who leans in.

1190
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:57,900
But to really do it at
scale, that's regulation.

1191
00:45:58,290 --> 00:46:03,000
And we heard from so many retailers
and brands, you know, in the markets we

1192
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:08,400
tested that did not proceed, uh, that
hey, um, you know, we know it works.

1193
00:46:09,089 --> 00:46:10,830
Consumers, there's no issue.

1194
00:46:11,220 --> 00:46:16,080
But we don't wanna take on the extra
work of reuse until it's, uh, mandated

1195
00:46:16,290 --> 00:46:20,130
because it is extra work, even in the
simplest of models like our loop model,

1196
00:46:20,130 --> 00:46:24,930
because instead of getting your packaging
brand new from a packaging manufacturer,

1197
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,270
it's coming in having been used.

1198
00:46:27,270 --> 00:46:29,884
So you have to spend a little
more effort designing it mm-hmm.

1199
00:46:29,964 --> 00:46:32,160
So that it, it can come
back and not break.

1200
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,359
And you have to put in a little
bit of extra effort into, um.

1201
00:46:37,530 --> 00:46:40,560
Uh, doing health and safety checks
on it when it, you know, comes in.

1202
00:46:40,590 --> 00:46:40,950
Right.

1203
00:46:41,250 --> 00:46:43,680
And we're doing and reuse
baby food, for example.

1204
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,530
So, and you don't know where
that baby food jar went when it

1205
00:46:46,530 --> 00:46:47,730
went out there into the universe.

1206
00:46:47,730 --> 00:46:49,410
So you have to have some muscle.

1207
00:46:49,410 --> 00:46:49,470
Yeah.

1208
00:46:49,950 --> 00:46:53,700
Which is by definition, extra effort to
make sure that package doesn't have micro

1209
00:46:54,090 --> 00:46:55,710
s on it and has been safely cleaned.

1210
00:46:56,310 --> 00:46:56,670
Right.

1211
00:46:56,730 --> 00:47:00,690
And that extra effort is
the sacrifice, if you will.

1212
00:47:01,980 --> 00:47:04,020
And that's where regulation
is really valued.

1213
00:47:04,020 --> 00:47:07,020
And I, I really highlight this 'cause
you know, the world is going into a very

1214
00:47:07,020 --> 00:47:10,200
aggressive deregulation, uh, uh, moment.

1215
00:47:11,610 --> 00:47:14,310
This, this is really interesting,
especially like the loop model.

1216
00:47:14,310 --> 00:47:17,220
I remember when Loop
came out, didn't it have.

1217
00:47:17,790 --> 00:47:21,210
Was, and, and, uh, maybe I'm confusing
this, but wasn't it, they, they almost

1218
00:47:21,210 --> 00:47:24,810
had a model where they can send it to your
home specific products in a bottle, right?

1219
00:47:24,810 --> 00:47:25,560
Is that the same?

1220
00:47:25,710 --> 00:47:27,480
Well, type of, that's
the same company, right?

1221
00:47:27,660 --> 00:47:28,380
It might be.

1222
00:47:28,380 --> 00:47:29,610
So just to be clear, right.

1223
00:47:29,610 --> 00:47:32,160
So when we first started,
this was 2019, uh, yeah.

1224
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,610
What we did is we went to all the major
brands and said, Hey, let's you know,

1225
00:47:35,610 --> 00:47:39,150
please put your packaging, so like
Doss to Tide laundry detergent, like

1226
00:47:39,150 --> 00:47:40,680
we got everybody, which was phenomenal.

1227
00:47:40,685 --> 00:47:40,755
Yeah.

1228
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:40,980
Yeah.

1229
00:47:40,980 --> 00:47:41,370
I remember that.

1230
00:47:41,370 --> 00:47:45,300
Then, then we went to the retailers like
Loblaw in Canada, Walmart in the US Yes.

1231
00:47:45,300 --> 00:47:46,470
And all the other likes.

1232
00:47:46,500 --> 00:47:49,740
And they said to us, before we
put this on shelf, we need to

1233
00:47:49,740 --> 00:47:51,090
know that our consumers like it.

1234
00:47:51,090 --> 00:47:53,640
So we told them, look, we'll
launch it as an e-commerce model.

1235
00:47:53,940 --> 00:47:57,480
We'll brand it Loblaw in Canada
or Walmart in the US or Tesco

1236
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,900
in the uk, whatever, and let's
prove that your consumers like it.

1237
00:48:00,905 --> 00:48:01,075
Yeah.

1238
00:48:01,075 --> 00:48:04,080
And that, so we started as an
online model to learn it worked.

1239
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,080
Then we said to everyone,
let's now move in store.

1240
00:48:07,350 --> 00:48:07,530
Right.

1241
00:48:07,530 --> 00:48:08,790
'cause we don't wanna be the retailer.

1242
00:48:08,970 --> 00:48:10,980
So we shut down the
online models everywhere.

1243
00:48:10,980 --> 00:48:13,920
We moved to in-store pilots,
like, you know, a dozen stores

1244
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:15,060
here, a dozen stores there.

1245
00:48:15,060 --> 00:48:15,120
Yeah.

1246
00:48:15,690 --> 00:48:17,400
And honestly, everywhere it worked.

1247
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,509
But then when we pushed to scale and said,
look guys, can we now go from a dozen

1248
00:48:21,509 --> 00:48:23,910
stores to like hundreds and hundreds?

1249
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:24,299
Yeah.

1250
00:48:24,330 --> 00:48:29,580
That's where really, you know, like the
wheat and chaff separated and everywhere.

1251
00:48:29,580 --> 00:48:33,750
But France, they said we're happy to
keep doing pilots until regulations

1252
00:48:33,750 --> 00:48:35,040
come, but they're not here today.

1253
00:48:35,700 --> 00:48:35,790
Mm-hmm.

1254
00:48:36,089 --> 00:48:39,120
And in France, 'cause the
regs are there, it exploded.

1255
00:48:40,230 --> 00:48:42,419
So once they're mandated
to do it, they'll do it.

1256
00:48:42,750 --> 00:48:42,990
Yeah.

1257
00:48:43,799 --> 00:48:47,069
But if they're not mandated to do it,
like why even if, if they're not mandated

1258
00:48:47,069 --> 00:48:49,379
to, what's the harm in doing it for them?

1259
00:48:49,710 --> 00:48:50,279
It's easy.

1260
00:48:50,759 --> 00:48:55,020
Um, every organization, and
there's nothing wrong with this.

1261
00:48:55,020 --> 00:48:58,290
So what we teach our team, 'cause you
will, it'll feel wrong when I say it,

1262
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,640
but the number one lesson we teach, you
know, folks who join TerraCycle is learn

1263
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:06,899
how the chess pieces on the chess board
move and don't just understand how they

1264
00:49:06,899 --> 00:49:08,730
move, empathize with how they move.

1265
00:49:09,225 --> 00:49:12,975
Like a funny story is my, uh, uh,
5-year-old, he likes playing chess, but

1266
00:49:12,975 --> 00:49:14,714
he's offended by how the pond moves.

1267
00:49:15,075 --> 00:49:18,855
He doesn't get, why does it
only attack left to right?

1268
00:49:18,855 --> 00:49:21,435
Why does it only move one step
forward Except the first move?

1269
00:49:21,435 --> 00:49:22,455
He goes, that's so screwed up.

1270
00:49:22,455 --> 00:49:26,295
And he's really upset about that,
but because of that, he never wins.

1271
00:49:26,470 --> 00:49:26,819
Right?

1272
00:49:26,825 --> 00:49:27,045
Right.

1273
00:49:27,345 --> 00:49:31,545
If he not only accepted that it moves in
a certain way, but empathized, you know,

1274
00:49:31,545 --> 00:49:36,525
really like was on the same page that this
is awesome how it moves, then he could

1275
00:49:36,525 --> 00:49:37,605
have a really good chance of winning.

1276
00:49:38,055 --> 00:49:38,444
Yeah.

1277
00:49:38,505 --> 00:49:40,395
And so how do corporates move?

1278
00:49:40,694 --> 00:49:43,845
It's a simple thing that starts,
that is the bounding movement.

1279
00:49:43,995 --> 00:49:45,825
The bounding movement is make
the most amount of money with

1280
00:49:45,825 --> 00:49:46,694
the least amount of effort.

1281
00:49:47,355 --> 00:49:48,944
Now you see how that
sounds wrong, by the way.

1282
00:49:48,944 --> 00:49:49,185
Right.

1283
00:49:49,190 --> 00:49:49,740
The amount of effort.

1284
00:49:49,740 --> 00:49:50,620
Yeah, I get it though.

1285
00:49:50,620 --> 00:49:51,100
But I get it.

1286
00:49:51,170 --> 00:49:52,634
It's the way, it's the way water flows.

1287
00:49:52,634 --> 00:49:53,714
It flows in that direction.

1288
00:49:53,714 --> 00:49:53,955
Right.

1289
00:49:54,075 --> 00:50:01,725
And so why is reuse resisted is because
a, a system where you have to design and

1290
00:50:01,725 --> 00:50:08,055
deal with the package coming back is by
definition always some extra work cost.

1291
00:50:08,595 --> 00:50:11,565
Versus a system that's linear
and you never have to worry

1292
00:50:11,565 --> 00:50:12,795
about the thing coming back.

1293
00:50:14,025 --> 00:50:20,295
And no matter how much you simplify it, it
will never be as easy as a linear system.

1294
00:50:21,015 --> 00:50:22,245
Right, right, right.

1295
00:50:22,275 --> 00:50:22,545
Wow.

1296
00:50:22,575 --> 00:50:26,595
It just cannot, I mean, even in places
by the way, where like reuse has been

1297
00:50:26,595 --> 00:50:30,015
so big, like beer kegs, you know what
the biggest trend in beer kegs are now?

1298
00:50:30,525 --> 00:50:30,885
Single.

1299
00:50:30,885 --> 00:50:31,725
Use beer kegs.

1300
00:50:32,445 --> 00:50:34,005
Single use beer kegs.

1301
00:50:34,065 --> 00:50:34,305
Oh yeah.

1302
00:50:34,305 --> 00:50:35,085
It's massive.

1303
00:50:35,175 --> 00:50:35,775
Massive.

1304
00:50:36,195 --> 00:50:37,455
When you get a chance, look it up online.

1305
00:50:37,455 --> 00:50:39,795
But basically, you know, beer
kegs are highly returnable, right?

1306
00:50:39,795 --> 00:50:39,980
Yeah, yeah.

1307
00:50:39,980 --> 00:50:40,905
I mean, that's what you think.

1308
00:50:41,205 --> 00:50:43,995
But a lot of companies figured out
that that's a hassle for the bars.

1309
00:50:44,445 --> 00:50:48,195
So they make 'em single use and they're
just, they, they're, they look like

1310
00:50:48,195 --> 00:50:51,165
a beer keg, but they're like plastic,
whatever, and they just chuck 'em

1311
00:50:51,165 --> 00:50:52,185
in the dumpster when they're done.

1312
00:50:52,185 --> 00:50:53,235
And why are they popular?

1313
00:50:53,685 --> 00:50:54,225
They're easier.

1314
00:50:54,765 --> 00:50:55,215
They're easier.

1315
00:50:55,215 --> 00:50:56,175
It's just convenience.

1316
00:50:56,235 --> 00:50:56,385
Yeah.

1317
00:50:56,895 --> 00:50:57,105
Yeah.

1318
00:50:57,795 --> 00:51:02,055
So when, when you look at trying to
disrupt the market, because you guys

1319
00:51:02,055 --> 00:51:05,565
are disrupting the market in terms
of like how people think of waste.

1320
00:51:06,780 --> 00:51:09,630
It requires, sometimes it
requires behavior change.

1321
00:51:09,660 --> 00:51:14,100
Like even my example of our bond, it
requires me to collect these, these

1322
00:51:14,100 --> 00:51:20,340
items and then bring them into, to, uh,
you know, in this case it's, it's, um,

1323
00:51:20,460 --> 00:51:22,320
uh, oh, what's the name of the place?

1324
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:26,880
Uh, the, the, the, it's not Purolator.

1325
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,850
It's, um, no, like a, like a
shipping UUPS or something.

1326
00:51:30,060 --> 00:51:30,180
Ups.

1327
00:51:30,180 --> 00:51:30,420
Yeah.

1328
00:51:30,690 --> 00:51:30,870
Yeah.

1329
00:51:30,870 --> 00:51:33,750
And it, you know, requires me to just
kind of go outta my way, which is like,

1330
00:51:33,750 --> 00:51:36,300
to be honest, it's not that big of a
deal, but it's a change of behavior

1331
00:51:36,300 --> 00:51:37,650
that a lot of people probably Yes.

1332
00:51:37,740 --> 00:51:39,390
Wouldn't, it's an extra want to do, right?

1333
00:51:39,750 --> 00:51:39,870
Yeah.

1334
00:51:39,870 --> 00:51:43,465
So how does TerraCycle combat
that, like a behavior change?

1335
00:51:43,465 --> 00:51:44,460
That's an excellent question.

1336
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:48,900
So the way we do it is, is it's
three, three very clear phases.

1337
00:51:49,260 --> 00:51:50,850
The first is the most unintuitive.

1338
00:51:50,850 --> 00:51:53,250
We want you to change your behavior
as least little as possible.

1339
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:53,880
Okay.

1340
00:51:54,060 --> 00:51:57,390
Like in Loop for example, we were
just talking about our, our uh,

1341
00:51:57,420 --> 00:51:59,880
internal sort of moniker, right?

1342
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:03,120
Is we need reuse to feel like
disposability in every way.

1343
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:03,180
Yeah.

1344
00:52:03,540 --> 00:52:06,780
One simple example of that is in
our return bins, when you return the

1345
00:52:06,780 --> 00:52:10,020
reusable packages, you can return
them and put 'em in one at a time.

1346
00:52:10,020 --> 00:52:13,200
You certainly can, but we also give
you a reusable garbage bag that you can

1347
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,620
just throw 'em all into and drop it off
like a bag of garbage and then we will

1348
00:52:16,620 --> 00:52:18,000
check in everything inside for you.

1349
00:52:18,390 --> 00:52:21,900
So for the first part of behavior
changes, don't change the behavior.

1350
00:52:21,930 --> 00:52:23,130
'cause it's hard, right?

1351
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:23,895
It is hard.

1352
00:52:24,270 --> 00:52:24,510
Yes.

1353
00:52:24,510 --> 00:52:28,710
So make it as little as possible
then, and the, and the answer

1354
00:52:28,710 --> 00:52:31,735
to that is make it feel as much
like what you do today, right?

1355
00:52:31,740 --> 00:52:31,830
Right.

1356
00:52:32,190 --> 00:52:36,420
Then it's about, um, so once you've done
that and made it convenient, as convenient

1357
00:52:36,420 --> 00:52:40,740
as absolutely possible, then the other two
things you can add on that will get you

1358
00:52:40,740 --> 00:52:44,910
to do something greater than no behavior
change is incentive and excitement.

1359
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:46,230
And excitement.

1360
00:52:46,230 --> 00:52:47,970
You can view as a type of
incentive, but there's sort of

1361
00:52:47,970 --> 00:52:49,530
three forms of incentive, right?

1362
00:52:49,530 --> 00:52:51,300
That get you going One.

1363
00:52:51,674 --> 00:52:53,774
Is the baseline, which is, it's better.

1364
00:52:53,955 --> 00:52:55,395
You're doing something noble.

1365
00:52:55,395 --> 00:52:58,544
You're helping, you're, you're, you
know, it's like volunteering somewhere.

1366
00:52:58,544 --> 00:52:59,895
It's doing good, right?

1367
00:52:59,899 --> 00:52:59,990
Mm-hmm.

1368
00:53:00,069 --> 00:53:03,794
And that is an incentive that really
matters, interestingly, more to women

1369
00:53:03,794 --> 00:53:06,944
than men, and especially more to
women that care about other life forms

1370
00:53:07,004 --> 00:53:10,334
in the order of plants, pets, and
then, uh, interesting children ing.

1371
00:53:10,334 --> 00:53:10,484
Yep.

1372
00:53:10,605 --> 00:53:11,024
Interesting.

1373
00:53:11,084 --> 00:53:14,265
Um, that's why the worst for
the, uh, planet demographically

1374
00:53:14,265 --> 00:53:15,225
speaking are single men.

1375
00:53:15,464 --> 00:53:15,734
Right?

1376
00:53:15,740 --> 00:53:15,990
Right.

1377
00:53:16,214 --> 00:53:19,964
Um, so, you know, both of us were
that at some point or are, you know.

1378
00:53:19,990 --> 00:53:20,109
Yes.

1379
00:53:20,415 --> 00:53:24,615
Um, then the other form of incentive,
after doing the right thing, which is a

1380
00:53:24,615 --> 00:53:26,415
powerful one, mine, uh, very much Yeah.

1381
00:53:26,654 --> 00:53:28,185
Is economic incentive.

1382
00:53:28,455 --> 00:53:31,305
Maybe I give you, so in the,
in the reuse model, it's, you

1383
00:53:31,305 --> 00:53:32,745
get a deposit back, right?

1384
00:53:32,750 --> 00:53:32,910
Mm-hmm.

1385
00:53:32,990 --> 00:53:33,705
You get money back.

1386
00:53:33,705 --> 00:53:33,794
Mm-hmm.

1387
00:53:34,035 --> 00:53:36,615
And what's cool is that, for example,
in France, when you get that money

1388
00:53:36,615 --> 00:53:41,055
back, the product is cheaper than
the disposable version, right?

1389
00:53:41,060 --> 00:53:41,189
Yeah.

1390
00:53:41,194 --> 00:53:41,325
Yeah.

1391
00:53:41,355 --> 00:53:44,145
So economic and economic incentive
could be derivatives, it could

1392
00:53:44,145 --> 00:53:45,435
be like coupons on something.

1393
00:53:45,435 --> 00:53:48,345
It could be other things, but
some form of economic incentive.

1394
00:53:48,345 --> 00:53:50,384
And then the third incentive,
which is unintuitive, is.

1395
00:53:50,685 --> 00:53:51,345
Happiness, right?

1396
00:53:51,735 --> 00:53:53,685
Happiness is different
than doing the right thing.

1397
00:53:53,985 --> 00:53:58,695
So what I mean by this is we did a
study where we put in, uh, busy train

1398
00:53:58,695 --> 00:54:02,865
stations in, uh, New York, uh, like
Grand Central Station, these sort

1399
00:54:02,865 --> 00:54:06,825
of places, recycling bins and trash
bins beside each other, well labeled.

1400
00:54:07,035 --> 00:54:07,125
Mm-hmm.

1401
00:54:07,365 --> 00:54:10,155
And we saw how many people put
something obviously recyclable,

1402
00:54:10,155 --> 00:54:13,545
like a soda bottle in the right
bin, and there's no extra hassle.

1403
00:54:13,665 --> 00:54:14,985
They're literally beside each other.

1404
00:54:15,285 --> 00:54:17,565
50% didn't do it correctly.

1405
00:54:18,345 --> 00:54:18,615
Okay.

1406
00:54:18,615 --> 00:54:21,315
So then we changed
something, just happiness.

1407
00:54:21,495 --> 00:54:25,065
We put a little sound detector into
the recycling bin so that when you put

1408
00:54:25,065 --> 00:54:28,785
something in the bin, it would play you
back a sound effect, like an infinite

1409
00:54:28,785 --> 00:54:31,155
drop or an an applause or whatever.

1410
00:54:31,155 --> 00:54:31,605
Some fun.

1411
00:54:32,235 --> 00:54:33,615
It went to 95%.

1412
00:54:33,615 --> 00:54:34,125
Correct?

1413
00:54:34,395 --> 00:54:34,485
Yeah.

1414
00:54:34,485 --> 00:54:37,995
And we even notice people going out of
their way to pick up a bottle that wasn't

1415
00:54:37,995 --> 00:54:41,685
theirs, to put it in the bin to get,
just to hear the sound, sound, happiness.

1416
00:54:41,985 --> 00:54:46,035
And I wanna say happiness is different
than, um, than doing the right thing.

1417
00:54:46,065 --> 00:54:47,925
Those are two different things, right?

1418
00:54:47,925 --> 00:54:47,935
Yeah.

1419
00:54:48,555 --> 00:54:51,225
Because like the doing the
right thing sometimes is harder.

1420
00:54:51,555 --> 00:54:51,645
Yeah.

1421
00:54:51,645 --> 00:54:53,355
We, we almost think of it as harder.

1422
00:54:53,355 --> 00:54:53,415
Yeah.

1423
00:54:53,445 --> 00:54:57,465
Like I have to eat better,
to be healthier, but that's

1424
00:54:57,465 --> 00:54:59,055
sometimes harder than just eating.

1425
00:54:59,055 --> 00:55:01,755
Like, you know, the, the stuff
that's bad for me eat, like,

1426
00:55:01,755 --> 00:55:02,685
I think it tastes better.

1427
00:55:02,690 --> 00:55:02,730
Yeah.

1428
00:55:02,730 --> 00:55:02,970
You know what I mean?

1429
00:55:02,975 --> 00:55:03,075
Yeah.

1430
00:55:03,075 --> 00:55:06,165
And it's almost like, uh, like, like
doing the noble thing is different

1431
00:55:06,165 --> 00:55:07,605
than just smiling, you know?

1432
00:55:07,605 --> 00:55:08,715
And it's those three things.

1433
00:55:08,715 --> 00:55:12,495
Like, you know, you give economic
benefit, you give happiness and you

1434
00:55:12,495 --> 00:55:16,725
give, um, you know, this, you know,
doing, doing the right noble thing.

1435
00:55:17,415 --> 00:55:18,765
That's really, really interesting.

1436
00:55:18,975 --> 00:55:19,730
It's, it is interesting.

1437
00:55:19,735 --> 00:55:21,675
I, uh, my daughter's going
to University of Guelph.

1438
00:55:21,675 --> 00:55:22,395
It's her first year.

1439
00:55:22,395 --> 00:55:22,405
Yeah.

1440
00:55:22,405 --> 00:55:22,490
This year.

1441
00:55:22,875 --> 00:55:24,765
We're taking her, uh, in two days.

1442
00:55:25,035 --> 00:55:25,185
Nice.

1443
00:55:25,185 --> 00:55:26,685
We went to visit the campus.

1444
00:55:26,685 --> 00:55:26,745
Yeah.

1445
00:55:26,805 --> 00:55:30,285
And, uh, at the campus, they
actually had this device.

1446
00:55:30,404 --> 00:55:32,925
So you have the, your bins,
there's like four different bins.

1447
00:55:33,195 --> 00:55:35,025
And then they had a TV with a camera.

1448
00:55:35,029 --> 00:55:35,410
Mm-hmm.

1449
00:55:35,495 --> 00:55:39,134
And you, all you had to do was put
your item that you want to throw

1450
00:55:39,134 --> 00:55:41,745
out in front of the camera and it
would tell you what bin it would go.

1451
00:55:41,745 --> 00:55:42,105
Oh, thats cool.

1452
00:55:42,435 --> 00:55:42,795
That's cool.

1453
00:55:42,795 --> 00:55:43,215
Right?

1454
00:55:43,305 --> 00:55:43,875
That's really cool.

1455
00:55:43,875 --> 00:55:45,705
Like you think, how come we
don't have that anywhere else?

1456
00:55:45,705 --> 00:55:47,985
Like, like why is this
not all over the place?

1457
00:55:48,015 --> 00:55:48,825
It costs money.

1458
00:55:49,035 --> 00:55:51,585
It costs money, but such
an interesting way Yeah.

1459
00:55:51,705 --> 00:55:53,085
Of disposal.

1460
00:55:53,654 --> 00:55:56,205
But I really like the sound
because everybody loves sound.

1461
00:55:56,205 --> 00:55:57,795
It could be music, it could
be anything, anything.

1462
00:55:57,795 --> 00:56:00,915
And once you get in the right bin
and you can hit that right sound,

1463
00:56:01,185 --> 00:56:04,904
you're almost gamifying in a way
that's a big part of happiness.

1464
00:56:04,904 --> 00:56:06,884
We do a lot of gamified collection bins.

1465
00:56:06,884 --> 00:56:09,585
We've done these at like the Super
Bowl and other places where like,

1466
00:56:09,765 --> 00:56:14,715
imagine like an arcade room, but the
machines, the, the thing you play with

1467
00:56:14,715 --> 00:56:20,325
is a used aluminum can or used PET
bottle and that is your token to play.

1468
00:56:20,505 --> 00:56:21,735
Like that is what you play with.

1469
00:56:21,740 --> 00:56:22,330
That's so, yeah.

1470
00:56:22,365 --> 00:56:23,325
Yeah, yeah.

1471
00:56:23,325 --> 00:56:24,195
Let me ask you this.

1472
00:56:24,195 --> 00:56:24,404
Yeah.

1473
00:56:24,404 --> 00:56:27,555
You know, you talk about the, the, the
first thing was make it easy, like make it

1474
00:56:27,555 --> 00:56:29,055
like, so it's like your regular routine.

1475
00:56:29,055 --> 00:56:33,345
So normally every Monday I put out my
garbage or recycling depending on the

1476
00:56:33,345 --> 00:56:35,715
day, uh, at the, at the edge of my curb.

1477
00:56:36,465 --> 00:56:39,015
Has there been a model for Loop to.

1478
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:39,870
Go.

1479
00:56:39,870 --> 00:56:41,340
I know it's more expensive.

1480
00:56:41,370 --> 00:56:41,430
Yeah.

1481
00:56:41,430 --> 00:56:45,180
But to go and, and have a
service to Well pick that up.

1482
00:56:45,390 --> 00:56:45,570
Yeah.

1483
00:56:45,570 --> 00:56:46,290
It's a great question.

1484
00:56:46,290 --> 00:56:48,210
So I'll uh, I'll answer it this way.

1485
00:56:48,240 --> 00:56:50,160
TerraCycle has a model like that.

1486
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:51,420
We call it TerraCycle Home.

1487
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:51,990
Yeah.

1488
00:56:52,050 --> 00:56:54,180
In the us I just know that number.

1489
00:56:54,180 --> 00:56:56,550
It's, it's available to
8% of the public today.

1490
00:56:56,580 --> 00:56:58,320
'cause we set up a geography at a time.

1491
00:56:58,530 --> 00:56:58,590
Yeah.

1492
00:56:58,590 --> 00:57:01,290
But basically it's curbside
and it actually gets cheaper.

1493
00:57:01,830 --> 00:57:02,760
Uh oh, interesting.

1494
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:06,060
So, and that's be, but we have to get
the density of enough people doing it.

1495
00:57:06,060 --> 00:57:07,350
That's why I just can't launch it.

1496
00:57:07,350 --> 00:57:07,770
National.

1497
00:57:07,770 --> 00:57:10,290
We have to go like zip code by zip
code by zip code, which makes sense.

1498
00:57:10,290 --> 00:57:11,040
Like pilot, but basic.

1499
00:57:11,490 --> 00:57:11,790
Yeah.

1500
00:57:11,790 --> 00:57:14,220
You get these, um, like zero waste bags.

1501
00:57:14,490 --> 00:57:16,620
You fill it up with a certain waste
stream and then you put it on the

1502
00:57:16,620 --> 00:57:19,740
curb and it gets picked up by, uh,
a local waste management company

1503
00:57:19,740 --> 00:57:21,330
and then it comes, uh, comes to us.

1504
00:57:21,630 --> 00:57:23,760
So we are certainly doing
that on the recycling side.

1505
00:57:23,850 --> 00:57:23,910
Yeah.

1506
00:57:23,910 --> 00:57:26,250
But again, it's limited to
where, where it's available.

1507
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:27,900
You can go to our website and, and see.

1508
00:57:27,900 --> 00:57:30,450
But on the reuse side, 'cause
that was your question there.

1509
00:57:30,450 --> 00:57:35,460
What we found is if we can get to 10%
of the public using a loop type service,

1510
00:57:35,730 --> 00:57:38,100
we can enable, uh, curbside pickup.

1511
00:57:38,564 --> 00:57:40,904
And then becomes all about it is
all about buying into the system and

1512
00:57:40,904 --> 00:57:41,995
getting people to buy into the system.

1513
00:57:41,995 --> 00:57:42,120
Yes.

1514
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,294
Because if you get enough people
doing it, you can run a route.

1515
00:57:44,714 --> 00:57:45,194
Yeah.

1516
00:57:45,194 --> 00:57:45,464
Of course.

1517
00:57:45,464 --> 00:57:46,995
That, uh, becomes economically efficient.

1518
00:57:47,444 --> 00:57:52,484
Now you, you've, like, TerraCycle has
created like an opportunity, uh, not

1519
00:57:52,484 --> 00:57:56,984
only from a, you know, selling new
products and, and collecting waste.

1520
00:57:56,984 --> 00:58:00,705
So you're having that opportunity of
reducing waste and making it to another

1521
00:58:00,705 --> 00:58:03,944
product and selling it and making
you, I assume you guys make money on

1522
00:58:03,944 --> 00:58:05,384
the products that you sell mm-hmm.

1523
00:58:05,625 --> 00:58:07,725
In the various, kind of, in
the various kind of ways.

1524
00:58:07,725 --> 00:58:09,254
And you're, and you're
a profitable company.

1525
00:58:09,674 --> 00:58:14,415
Um, it seems like there's a lot of
opportunities in this space in the

1526
00:58:14,475 --> 00:58:17,714
waste and to, to creation to this space.

1527
00:58:17,714 --> 00:58:22,365
Like, for instance, having a, a, a
delivery service or pickup service, like

1528
00:58:22,365 --> 00:58:27,044
in a different country or like a company
saying, Hey, let's partner and we'll

1529
00:58:27,044 --> 00:58:31,424
do here in Canada, you know, a system
where we're gonna try and get a, like a

1530
00:58:31,424 --> 00:58:34,964
region and we'll do the pickup and then
we'll send it to you and, you know, work

1531
00:58:34,964 --> 00:58:36,134
something out with that kind of way.

1532
00:58:36,435 --> 00:58:36,645
Yeah.

1533
00:58:36,990 --> 00:58:41,190
Is, is this like an opportunity
where it can create jobs, create,

1534
00:58:41,195 --> 00:58:42,510
you know, on, you know, a new set?

1535
00:58:42,510 --> 00:58:43,200
Like, like Yes.

1536
00:58:43,260 --> 00:58:45,540
Launch a new set of
entrepreneurs and businesses?

1537
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:46,050
Yeah.

1538
00:58:46,050 --> 00:58:51,180
I guess the question is, if it is, why
haven't people taken advantage of that?

1539
00:58:51,450 --> 00:58:52,920
Because other than yourself of course.

1540
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:53,790
No, no.

1541
00:58:54,150 --> 00:58:55,410
It's what we talked about at the top.

1542
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:57,210
You're absolutely right about all of it.

1543
00:58:57,630 --> 00:58:57,750
Yeah.

1544
00:58:57,750 --> 00:59:01,680
It's very blue ocean it, and it's
also very fulfilling to solve.

1545
00:59:01,685 --> 00:59:02,550
Right, right.

1546
00:59:02,580 --> 00:59:05,160
Uh, you said, you know, you mentioned
that earlier, it's like, it's great to

1547
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:06,810
work at a purpose-driven company, right?

1548
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:07,650
Yeah, for sure.

1549
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,230
It's because waste is
the opposite of sexy.

1550
00:59:10,860 --> 00:59:11,040
Yeah.

1551
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:12,540
It is super unattractive.

1552
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,870
It is not just shitty,
smelly, nasty, metaphorically.

1553
00:59:15,870 --> 00:59:17,220
It is in the flesh, you know?

1554
00:59:17,250 --> 00:59:17,665
Yeah, yeah.

1555
00:59:17,670 --> 00:59:19,590
Um, I always make a funny joke about this.

1556
00:59:19,590 --> 00:59:25,770
So imagine if you took the human body
and then as a metaphor to business.

1557
00:59:25,980 --> 00:59:29,580
What I mean by that is our immune system
would be the healthcare business, right.

1558
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:31,830
Our brain would be the IT business.

1559
00:59:31,860 --> 00:59:32,190
Right?

1560
00:59:32,190 --> 00:59:32,200
Right.

1561
00:59:32,220 --> 00:59:32,790
You know what I mean?

1562
00:59:32,790 --> 00:59:34,530
Like, and you can put a metaphor, right?

1563
00:59:34,710 --> 00:59:34,890
Yeah.

1564
00:59:34,890 --> 00:59:35,970
What would be the garbage business?

1565
00:59:36,645 --> 00:59:37,065
Your butt.

1566
00:59:37,605 --> 00:59:37,845
Yeah.

1567
00:59:38,145 --> 00:59:42,525
The thing that is, you know, the, the, the
least attractive part of the whole body.

1568
00:59:43,095 --> 00:59:43,545
Yeah.

1569
00:59:43,815 --> 00:59:44,055
Right.

1570
00:59:44,055 --> 00:59:47,235
But, but again, like, you know, it's,
it's kind of funny you mentioned it

1571
00:59:47,235 --> 00:59:50,595
that way 'cause I, I see like from a, a
psychological point of view, people are

1572
00:59:50,595 --> 00:59:54,105
like, well, hold on a second, I don't
want deal with that crap because literally

1573
00:59:54,105 --> 00:59:55,455
that's what we're talking about here.

1574
00:59:55,995 --> 00:59:59,805
However, if it can reduce
the amount of waste Yeah.

1575
00:59:59,805 --> 01:00:00,495
By a certain amount.

1576
01:00:00,495 --> 01:00:02,205
Even if you measure it by that amount.

1577
01:00:02,205 --> 01:00:02,535
Yeah, yeah.

1578
01:00:02,595 --> 01:00:03,940
Uh, gamify it for your own company.

1579
01:00:03,940 --> 01:00:04,220
Mm-hmm.

1580
01:00:04,300 --> 01:00:06,945
To say like, Hey, we've reduced
amount, just like a lot of plastic

1581
01:00:06,945 --> 01:00:09,435
pollution companies, like Four
Oceans will say we've picked up.

1582
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:09,855
Yeah, yeah.

1583
01:00:09,855 --> 01:00:11,205
You know, this amount of Absolutely.

1584
01:00:11,535 --> 01:00:11,715
Yeah.

1585
01:00:12,045 --> 01:00:14,355
It seems like they take off
pretty well and people like it.

1586
01:00:14,355 --> 01:00:18,135
They like seeing the videos, they like
seeing how they do things are made.

1587
01:00:18,555 --> 01:00:20,205
I would say Alex of Four Ocean.

1588
01:00:20,205 --> 01:00:22,695
I mean these guys, it's a very
small community or boy on Yeah,

1589
01:00:22,695 --> 01:00:23,715
we interviewed him last year.

1590
01:00:23,715 --> 01:00:24,255
He's a great guy.

1591
01:00:24,285 --> 01:00:24,885
Yeah, he's great.

1592
01:00:24,885 --> 01:00:25,635
These guys are awesome.

1593
01:00:26,325 --> 01:00:30,075
And, and they were able to
hit like a nerve on that, like

1594
01:00:30,075 --> 01:00:31,455
really brilliantly, you know?

1595
01:00:31,455 --> 01:00:31,545
Yes.

1596
01:00:31,695 --> 01:00:34,875
I think Alice did it really well with
the bracelets, you know, at Four Oceans.

1597
01:00:34,875 --> 01:00:34,935
Yeah.

1598
01:00:35,205 --> 01:00:38,685
I think Boyan did it incredibly
well with the ocean cleanup project.

1599
01:00:38,685 --> 01:00:38,775
Right.

1600
01:00:38,775 --> 01:00:40,905
And the, you know, and, and,
and, and, and, and all that.

1601
01:00:41,265 --> 01:00:46,815
Um, but for every one of them
or me, there is like a thousand

1602
01:00:46,815 --> 01:00:49,785
guys who try it.com Right.

1603
01:00:49,905 --> 01:00:51,015
For the reason I said.

1604
01:00:51,645 --> 01:00:51,795
Right.

1605
01:00:51,795 --> 01:00:55,545
Because yes, you're seeing
the polished success story.

1606
01:00:56,025 --> 01:00:56,085
Yeah.

1607
01:00:56,085 --> 01:00:59,355
But going out and doing the
cleanups Alex does is treacherous.

1608
01:00:59,835 --> 01:01:00,135
Yes.

1609
01:01:00,135 --> 01:01:03,855
You know, it is, uh, yes, it shows
up nice in a marketing video, but

1610
01:01:03,855 --> 01:01:07,305
it is not something the average
person wants to sign up for.

1611
01:01:07,830 --> 01:01:08,340
That's true.

1612
01:01:08,345 --> 01:01:08,495
True.

1613
01:01:08,500 --> 01:01:09,210
It reaps.

1614
01:01:09,210 --> 01:01:09,230
It's true.

1615
01:01:09,230 --> 01:01:10,080
It's gross.

1616
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:10,650
It's, yeah.

1617
01:01:10,710 --> 01:01:13,440
And that's the thing on waste is it is.

1618
01:01:14,070 --> 01:01:17,160
You know, it is that, and
that's why it is generally

1619
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:18,810
unappealing to an average person.

1620
01:01:18,810 --> 01:01:21,480
You know, I give this, um,
standing lecture at NYU every year.

1621
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:23,880
I've been doing that for 20 years
to the inbound class at Stern.

1622
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:25,560
And it's just 'cause
it's a big audience size.

1623
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:25,800
Right?

1624
01:01:25,805 --> 01:01:25,895
Yeah, for sure.

1625
01:01:25,895 --> 01:01:26,880
That's why I mention it here.

1626
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:32,760
And the point is, I asked this big
group of kids who here aspires at all

1627
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:34,770
to even explore a career in waste.

1628
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:38,520
And honestly, in 20 years, not one
hand has ever gone up, but you'd

1629
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:41,190
ask them, how many of you guys wanna
be in the entertainment industry?

1630
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:41,610
Yeah.

1631
01:01:41,610 --> 01:01:44,370
Or some other, significantly
more sexy industry.

1632
01:01:44,370 --> 01:01:46,560
It's like you get meaningful
participation Of course.

1633
01:01:46,710 --> 01:01:51,060
And that's an opportunity to anyone
hearing this, it's that like you can

1634
01:01:51,060 --> 01:01:54,270
really, you know, do something where
there's not a lot of competition.

1635
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:54,690
Mm-hmm.

1636
01:01:54,930 --> 01:01:55,980
Uh, it's very meaningful.

1637
01:01:56,505 --> 01:02:00,315
Um, uh, you know, and there's not a lot
of people playing in it, and it's a shame.

1638
01:02:00,315 --> 01:02:03,615
I mean, it's why, for example, we
set up our offices the way we do.

1639
01:02:03,615 --> 01:02:06,135
If you Google TerraCycle offices,
you'll see like it's really bright

1640
01:02:06,135 --> 01:02:09,225
or we're majority female as a,
as an organization of our five,

1641
01:02:09,230 --> 01:02:10,725
500 team members, all this stuff.

1642
01:02:10,755 --> 01:02:13,995
It doesn't feel like a garbage
company because we wanna show

1643
01:02:13,995 --> 01:02:18,105
that it can be exciting, it can be
something that is totally unexpected.

1644
01:02:18,885 --> 01:02:19,125
Yeah.

1645
01:02:19,125 --> 01:02:20,355
And sometimes you gotta get smelly.

1646
01:02:20,475 --> 01:02:23,355
Sometimes you gotta get dirty when
you like Yeah, you do, but no one

1647
01:02:23,355 --> 01:02:24,675
likes an it an easy thing to clean up.

1648
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:25,605
Right, right, right.

1649
01:02:25,635 --> 01:02:28,125
It's just not something that
anyone looks forward to.

1650
01:02:28,695 --> 01:02:33,255
No, no, but it's also, you can you, with
the results, like even that TerraCycle

1651
01:02:33,255 --> 01:02:37,305
has done, and you guys have done it over
25 years, and I'm sure, you know, you've

1652
01:02:37,305 --> 01:02:40,935
had your own, you know, set of problems
and going up and down in terms of, of

1653
01:02:40,935 --> 01:02:42,915
growing a company in, in today's world.

1654
01:02:43,245 --> 01:02:46,154
Uh, but you've, you've been able
to accomplish a, a hell of a lot,

1655
01:02:46,154 --> 01:02:50,835
including employing for over 500 people
in your companies, uh, worldwide.

1656
01:02:50,835 --> 01:02:55,125
Which, which I, I, I highly, you know,
uh, respect and, and, and give you

1657
01:02:55,125 --> 01:02:58,634
props for, because that's something
that, you know, you don't see every day.

1658
01:02:58,845 --> 01:03:02,715
But also with the purpose of reducing
waste and making it to something else.

1659
01:03:02,715 --> 01:03:06,555
Because there are a lot of people who
will say, well, we shouldn't be, um, you

1660
01:03:06,555 --> 01:03:08,265
know, we shouldn't be recycling things.

1661
01:03:08,265 --> 01:03:09,825
We should be reducing our.

1662
01:03:09,895 --> 01:03:10,435
They're right.

1663
01:03:10,825 --> 01:03:11,140
And they're right.

1664
01:03:11,140 --> 01:03:11,545
They're right.

1665
01:03:11,634 --> 01:03:11,965
Yeah.

1666
01:03:12,145 --> 01:03:14,515
But what do you do with the
waste that's around instead of

1667
01:03:14,515 --> 01:03:15,565
just putting it into a landfill?

1668
01:03:15,565 --> 01:03:16,975
You gotta do something with it.

1669
01:03:16,980 --> 01:03:17,455
Something That's right.

1670
01:03:17,455 --> 01:03:20,215
And if you can do something with
it that's purposeful, then you can

1671
01:03:20,215 --> 01:03:21,865
do a really good job in doing that.

1672
01:03:22,105 --> 01:03:23,965
Um, you know, Tom, this has been great.

1673
01:03:23,995 --> 01:03:25,884
Uh, we could talk for, for hours.

1674
01:03:25,945 --> 01:03:26,095
Yeah.

1675
01:03:26,185 --> 01:03:29,455
Last question I wanted to, to ask and,
and please take your time in answering it.

1676
01:03:30,265 --> 01:03:31,495
You have the, the website's.

1677
01:03:31,495 --> 01:03:31,765
Great.

1678
01:03:31,765 --> 01:03:35,575
I'm gonna, I'm gonna have people, you
know, to, to look at the, the website.

1679
01:03:35,785 --> 01:03:38,125
How would you suggest for the
people listening to this, I have

1680
01:03:38,125 --> 01:03:40,585
a lot of people who want to do
something for the environment.

1681
01:03:40,585 --> 01:03:40,595
Yes.

1682
01:03:40,735 --> 01:03:40,975
Yes.

1683
01:03:40,975 --> 01:03:45,265
And what would you suggest how they
can get involved with TerraCycle

1684
01:03:45,265 --> 01:03:47,420
and some of the programs with
TerraCycle to, to Absolutely.

1685
01:03:47,425 --> 01:03:49,495
To minimize their, their behavior change.

1686
01:03:49,525 --> 01:03:49,825
Yeah.

1687
01:03:49,825 --> 01:03:50,035
No.

1688
01:03:50,035 --> 01:03:50,545
Well, thank you.

1689
01:03:50,545 --> 01:03:55,585
So, so the uh, uh, the easiest thing to
do is go to the website terracycle.com.

1690
01:03:55,884 --> 01:03:55,945
Yeah.

1691
01:03:56,305 --> 01:03:59,755
When you get there, you're gonna
see in the recycling areas, 'cause

1692
01:03:59,755 --> 01:04:02,095
that's where you can really work
with us anywhere in the world.

1693
01:04:02,125 --> 01:04:05,395
Uh, again, reuses right now, France
only recycling is where you can

1694
01:04:05,395 --> 01:04:06,805
really work with us anywhere.

1695
01:04:06,805 --> 01:04:07,705
You're listening to this.

1696
01:04:08,790 --> 01:04:10,560
First check out the free programs.

1697
01:04:11,100 --> 01:04:11,310
Okay.

1698
01:04:11,310 --> 01:04:13,980
These are programs like your
Arbon program that you mentioned?

1699
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:14,100
Yeah.

1700
01:04:14,220 --> 01:04:15,300
Where there's no cost.

1701
01:04:15,300 --> 01:04:15,360
Yeah.

1702
01:04:15,510 --> 01:04:17,880
We pick up the waste, we process it.

1703
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:19,560
That's because sponsors are paying for it.

1704
01:04:20,310 --> 01:04:20,430
Gotcha.

1705
01:04:20,610 --> 01:04:23,850
And in many cases it raises money for
schools or charities of your choice, you

1706
01:04:23,850 --> 01:04:26,970
know, and many programs, donations are
given, not all of them, but, but many.

1707
01:04:27,150 --> 01:04:31,230
We've donated out about $20 million to
date in these forms of, uh, donations.

1708
01:04:31,230 --> 01:04:32,910
So that's how you begin with us.

1709
01:04:32,910 --> 01:04:36,840
It's come in, recycle, and then if you
wanna do more and you don't see a free

1710
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:40,860
program, there's a paid solution for just
about everything, uh, available as well.

1711
01:04:40,860 --> 01:04:44,550
And you can buy one of our zero waste
boxes, uh, or zero waste bags and

1712
01:04:44,550 --> 01:04:46,350
recycle almost anything you'd like.

1713
01:04:46,890 --> 01:04:47,160
Yeah.

1714
01:04:47,220 --> 01:04:50,460
With that said, though, there's one
step before you should do anything

1715
01:04:50,460 --> 01:04:55,560
with us, which is the biggest message
I can leave is the most powerful

1716
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:58,110
thing we do in shaping the world.

1717
01:04:59,115 --> 01:05:00,645
What we buy and what we don't buy.

1718
01:05:00,855 --> 01:05:03,075
I think it's the most
fiercely democratic action.

1719
01:05:03,135 --> 01:05:03,645
Let's remember.

1720
01:05:03,645 --> 01:05:03,765
Mm-hmm.

1721
01:05:04,035 --> 01:05:05,325
How often do we get to vote?

1722
01:05:05,325 --> 01:05:06,735
Like once every four years.

1723
01:05:06,735 --> 01:05:09,435
And many of us don't even have the
privilege of voting 'cause maybe we're

1724
01:05:09,615 --> 01:05:11,715
too young or not a citizen or whatever.

1725
01:05:11,715 --> 01:05:11,985
Right.

1726
01:05:12,465 --> 01:05:16,515
Um, we vote for what we for
the future, uh, with what we

1727
01:05:16,515 --> 01:05:17,505
buy and what we don't buy.

1728
01:05:18,045 --> 01:05:22,155
And let's just next time we shop,
'cause we all shop, shop this way.

1729
01:05:22,815 --> 01:05:25,455
Imagine everything you buy
two will appear tomorrow.

1730
01:05:25,635 --> 01:05:30,645
One to replace the one you bought and
one to signify the trend and one less

1731
01:05:30,645 --> 01:05:32,505
will appear of everything you didn't buy.

1732
01:05:32,685 --> 01:05:34,755
There's nothing to replace,
but there's a negative trend.

1733
01:05:35,235 --> 01:05:35,475
Yeah.

1734
01:05:35,475 --> 01:05:36,555
Will you shop differently?

1735
01:05:37,065 --> 01:05:37,485
Yeah.

1736
01:05:38,295 --> 01:05:38,835
I like that.

1737
01:05:38,835 --> 01:05:40,245
So whatever you buy will double.

1738
01:05:40,605 --> 01:05:40,875
Yes.

1739
01:05:40,905 --> 01:05:42,615
Whatever you don't buy
will actually lessen.

1740
01:05:42,730 --> 01:05:43,020
Yeah.

1741
01:05:44,085 --> 01:05:44,145
Yeah.

1742
01:05:44,715 --> 01:05:44,845
I like that.

1743
01:05:44,845 --> 01:05:46,875
And like, you know what the crazy
part, it's exactly what happens.

1744
01:05:47,205 --> 01:05:48,045
Yeah, yeah.

1745
01:05:48,345 --> 01:05:48,555
Right.

1746
01:05:48,645 --> 01:05:49,095
It's true.

1747
01:05:49,155 --> 01:05:50,265
There's no metaphor here.

1748
01:05:50,295 --> 01:05:51,885
It's like straight up what happens.

1749
01:05:52,005 --> 01:05:52,215
Yeah.

1750
01:05:52,215 --> 01:05:54,735
But it's, it's, it's training your,
your mind to think about that every

1751
01:05:54,735 --> 01:05:55,820
time you make a purchase that we make.

1752
01:05:56,020 --> 01:05:57,435
'cause we are voting blindly.

1753
01:05:58,460 --> 01:06:01,275
It all, we are voting without
realizing that is what's happening.

1754
01:06:01,665 --> 01:06:02,025
Yeah.

1755
01:06:02,175 --> 01:06:02,475
Yeah.

1756
01:06:02,475 --> 01:06:04,605
I think that's a, that's
a, that's a great thing.

1757
01:06:04,845 --> 01:06:09,105
Uh, and, and also like from a, that's
from an individual standpoint, there

1758
01:06:09,105 --> 01:06:12,105
are a lot of businesses, you know, like
even my company, like the company that

1759
01:06:12,105 --> 01:06:16,575
I work for, you know, we have, you know,
mixed recyclables and garbage, but a

1760
01:06:16,575 --> 01:06:20,835
lot of times, like in the, the city that
I live in, you know, there may not be

1761
01:06:20,835 --> 01:06:23,805
like a recycling program for businesses
that may not come and pick it up.

1762
01:06:23,805 --> 01:06:23,865
Yeah.

1763
01:06:24,135 --> 01:06:27,585
You mentioned some of the paid versions,
like there's a, a zero waste box.

1764
01:06:27,585 --> 01:06:30,675
Can you just talk a little bit of
before we go about how that works?

1765
01:06:30,735 --> 01:06:31,425
Yeah, absolutely.

1766
01:06:31,425 --> 01:06:35,985
So in the paid solutions, and we are
half B2B, half B2C, so we do tons

1767
01:06:35,985 --> 01:06:37,575
in facility recycling, you know.

1768
01:06:37,605 --> 01:06:37,905
Okay.

1769
01:06:37,935 --> 01:06:41,205
Whether it's hazardous materials like
light bulbs, batteries, electronic waste,

1770
01:06:41,625 --> 01:06:44,355
all the way to, um, uh, not hazardous.

1771
01:06:45,315 --> 01:06:48,705
Latex gloves and uh, personal
protective equipment and all this stuff.

1772
01:06:48,710 --> 01:06:48,940
Mm-hmm.

1773
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:51,855
So you just go to our website, you
type in the waste stream, uh, into

1774
01:06:51,855 --> 01:06:54,045
the search bar, and you're gonna
see if there are free solutions.

1775
01:06:54,045 --> 01:06:54,585
You'll see those.

1776
01:06:54,585 --> 01:06:55,365
Totally use those.

1777
01:06:55,365 --> 01:06:55,425
Yeah.

1778
01:06:55,425 --> 01:06:58,275
If not, you're gonna see paid solutions,
which we call our zero waste boxes.

1779
01:06:58,545 --> 01:07:02,295
Basically you can buy zero waste box for
just about anything, and they go as small

1780
01:07:02,295 --> 01:07:04,005
as a little pouch, as big as a pallet.

1781
01:07:04,065 --> 01:07:05,685
So every size you can imagine.

1782
01:07:06,345 --> 01:07:10,575
And uh, you, uh, you, you receive the
device, you fill it up, the cost already

1783
01:07:10,575 --> 01:07:13,815
includes us picking it up from you so you,
you know, you can put it into a UPS or if

1784
01:07:13,815 --> 01:07:15,615
it's a pallet, we pick it up with a truck.

1785
01:07:15,975 --> 01:07:19,485
Um, and then everything inside gets
recycled and the cost of the box

1786
01:07:19,485 --> 01:07:23,175
is basically whatever it costs us
to get you a box, pick it up full,

1787
01:07:23,325 --> 01:07:26,715
recycle everything inside, minus what
the resulting materials are worth.

1788
01:07:26,805 --> 01:07:26,835
Okay.

1789
01:07:26,835 --> 01:07:29,235
That's how we, how the
prices, uh, uh, come to be.

1790
01:07:29,565 --> 01:07:32,685
And through the zero waste box
system, you can again, recycle

1791
01:07:32,685 --> 01:07:33,975
just about anything you want.

1792
01:07:34,395 --> 01:07:35,055
I love that.

1793
01:07:35,355 --> 01:07:36,045
I love that.

1794
01:07:36,255 --> 01:07:37,545
Plus it's great for your employees.

1795
01:07:37,545 --> 01:07:38,365
Like to know that gets.

1796
01:07:39,090 --> 01:07:40,380
Yeah, I think that's fantastic.

1797
01:07:40,380 --> 01:07:43,980
It's a really easy sustainability
solution for a small business.

1798
01:07:43,980 --> 01:07:46,830
Like if you're a coffee shop,
imagine the value of suddenly

1799
01:07:46,830 --> 01:07:51,060
offering coffee bag recycling, or
coffee cup recycling, or organics,

1800
01:07:51,090 --> 01:07:52,320
you know, like the coffee grounds.

1801
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:52,380
Yeah.

1802
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:52,920
Right.

1803
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:56,610
Or if you're a automotive shop,
what about recycling all the plastic

1804
01:07:56,610 --> 01:07:59,225
gloves, you know, or motor oil
containers, you know, that, uh, yeah.

1805
01:07:59,230 --> 01:08:02,465
That are produced or broken
wipers, you know, uh, and whatnot.

1806
01:08:02,979 --> 01:08:03,250
Right.

1807
01:08:03,250 --> 01:08:04,399
There's something like that everywhere.

1808
01:08:04,399 --> 01:08:04,479
Yeah.

1809
01:08:04,479 --> 01:08:05,290
You can use that as bit of a selling item.

1810
01:08:05,290 --> 01:08:06,879
Be like, Hey, by the way,
this is what we do here.

1811
01:08:06,879 --> 01:08:08,080
If you wanted to come here, that's Yeah.

1812
01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:08,090
Yeah.

1813
01:08:08,090 --> 01:08:09,069
If that's important to you.

1814
01:08:09,100 --> 01:08:09,399
Yeah.

1815
01:08:09,399 --> 01:08:11,890
Like my local swimming pool
through TerraCycle does, um,

1816
01:08:11,950 --> 01:08:13,479
goggle and bathing, suit recycling.

1817
01:08:13,479 --> 01:08:14,589
And that's a draw for them.

1818
01:08:14,589 --> 01:08:17,590
You know, like they tell people and people
come in just to drop it off, and then

1819
01:08:17,620 --> 01:08:19,389
maybe they'll, you know, go for a swim.

1820
01:08:19,389 --> 01:08:19,750
Who knows?

1821
01:08:19,809 --> 01:08:20,109
Yeah.

1822
01:08:20,109 --> 01:08:20,859
Stay for a swim.

1823
01:08:20,859 --> 01:08:22,210
It's a great way to bring people in.

1824
01:08:22,420 --> 01:08:22,630
That's right.

1825
01:08:22,630 --> 01:08:23,200
I love that.

1826
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:23,979
I love that aspect.

1827
01:08:23,979 --> 01:08:25,689
Tom, this has been so great.

1828
01:08:25,689 --> 01:08:28,029
I'd love to invite you back
on, talk more about TerraCycle.

1829
01:08:28,029 --> 01:08:28,090
Yeah.

1830
01:08:28,090 --> 01:08:30,550
Because I think we just, we're
just scratching the surface.

1831
01:08:30,609 --> 01:08:30,849
Yeah.

1832
01:08:30,849 --> 01:08:35,139
Uh, you have been so, uh, insightful, uh,
for a lot of us and motivating for, for

1833
01:08:35,139 --> 01:08:36,519
a lot of us who are listening to this.

1834
01:08:36,729 --> 01:08:36,969
I know.

1835
01:08:36,969 --> 01:08:37,990
For me, definitely.

1836
01:08:37,990 --> 01:08:41,889
But I wanna thank you so much, uh, for
joining us, uh, on today's episode.

1837
01:08:41,889 --> 01:08:42,939
It's been great to have you on.

1838
01:08:43,269 --> 01:08:44,019
Well, thank you so much.

1839
01:08:44,019 --> 01:08:45,490
I look forward to the
next time we cross paths.

1840
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:46,800
I look forward to it as well.

1841
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:47,190
Thank you.

1842
01:08:47,310 --> 01:08:47,550
Awesome.

1843
01:08:47,550 --> 01:08:47,910
Thank you.

1844
01:08:48,090 --> 01:08:50,430
Thank you, Tom, for joining us
on today's episode of the How

1845
01:08:50,430 --> 01:08:51,540
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

1846
01:08:51,540 --> 01:08:54,030
Such a great talk, such a great interview.

1847
01:08:54,060 --> 01:08:58,530
To be able to hear such positive messaging
around waste and the fact that there's

1848
01:08:58,530 --> 01:09:02,490
so many opportunities around waste
and to work within waste and to start

1849
01:09:02,490 --> 01:09:07,470
businesses, to handle waste, and to
really truly build recyclable materials

1850
01:09:07,470 --> 01:09:11,580
or out of like recycling materials to
build products for people to consume.

1851
01:09:11,730 --> 01:09:13,320
I think this is something
that's really interesting.

1852
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:14,430
I think, you know, Tom's right?

1853
01:09:14,430 --> 01:09:17,670
He, like a lot of people just don't
want to do it because it's stinky and it

1854
01:09:17,670 --> 01:09:20,970
could be messy and it could be difficult
to work with, but if you have the right

1855
01:09:20,970 --> 01:09:22,830
idea, you have the right motivation.

1856
01:09:22,830 --> 01:09:25,410
You want reduce waste,
this is what we need to do.

1857
01:09:25,410 --> 01:09:27,600
And of course, I'm gonna say
it again because I know people

1858
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:28,650
are gonna call me out on it.

1859
01:09:28,890 --> 01:09:32,880
We still have to reduce the
amount of waste that we create.

1860
01:09:33,100 --> 01:09:35,890
We have to reduce, as Tom said,
when you're looking at buying

1861
01:09:35,890 --> 01:09:38,830
something that has waste, there's
two things that replace it.

1862
01:09:38,830 --> 01:09:42,040
If you buy a bottle, like a pop
bottle, soda bottle, or a sugary

1863
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:44,800
drink and a plastic bottle,
there's two things to replace that.

1864
01:09:45,010 --> 01:09:47,590
But if you don't buy it, it actually
reduces the amount that there is.

1865
01:09:47,590 --> 01:09:50,710
So that's something to think about
when you start purchasing things

1866
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:52,720
and you want to be mindful of that.

1867
01:09:52,894 --> 01:09:55,325
And so I think it's a great
way to just shift your mind.

1868
01:09:55,325 --> 01:09:57,964
A lot of this stuff is just shifting
your mind, maybe changing your behavior

1869
01:09:57,964 --> 01:10:00,815
just a little bit, or duplicating your
behavior and doing something a little

1870
01:10:00,815 --> 01:10:03,214
different that really makes a difference.

1871
01:10:03,214 --> 01:10:06,065
And I think that's something that I would
like to explore a little bit more in

1872
01:10:06,065 --> 01:10:07,835
That is how do we change our behavior?

1873
01:10:07,835 --> 01:10:10,775
How do we get people to change
behavior to be more resourceful?

1874
01:10:11,165 --> 01:10:14,045
To be more mindful of how we
can live for a better ocean.

1875
01:10:14,255 --> 01:10:15,245
So I wanna thank Tom.

1876
01:10:15,245 --> 01:10:19,985
I'm gonna go and point people to Terra
Cycles website, which is terracycle.com.

1877
01:10:20,075 --> 01:10:22,565
I'll put it in the show notes, the
link in the show notes, and if you

1878
01:10:22,565 --> 01:10:25,295
have any questions or comments, or
leave them in the comments below

1879
01:10:25,295 --> 01:10:28,925
if you're watching this on YouTube,
or you can hit me up on Instagram,

1880
01:10:28,925 --> 01:10:30,575
DM me at How to Protect the Ocean.

1881
01:10:30,575 --> 01:10:34,445
Or of course, if you go to my website,
speak up for blue.com/contact,

1882
01:10:34,715 --> 01:10:36,275
you can fill out the contact form.

1883
01:10:36,275 --> 01:10:39,545
It goes right to my email and I'll
answer you as soon as possible.

1884
01:10:39,725 --> 01:10:43,175
I wanna thank you so much for Tom
for joining us on this podcast,

1885
01:10:43,175 --> 01:10:45,935
and thank you for listening
and your insightful questions.

1886
01:10:46,205 --> 01:10:48,635
Any concerns or anything, comments,
we'd love to hear from you.

1887
01:10:48,815 --> 01:10:51,005
I wanna thank you so much for
joining me on today's episode of the

1888
01:10:51,005 --> 01:10:52,175
How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.

1889
01:10:52,175 --> 01:10:54,995
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from
the True North Strong and Free.

1890
01:10:54,995 --> 01:10:55,625
Have a great day.

1891
01:10:55,625 --> 01:10:57,725
We'll talk to you next time
and happy conservation.