0 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,000 The Hair Game (00:00) 1 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,000 Nina, how are you? 2 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:12,000 Nina Tulio (00:02) 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:12,000 I'm great, how are you? 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:13,000 The Hair Game (00:03) 5 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:13,000 I'm doing fantastic. For those who don't know you, I don't know if there's any listeners who don't know you, but if there are a couple, maybe people who just came out from under the rock, maybe who just decided to be a beauty professional, you never know. You're a Santa Monica, California based beauty industry business coach, former stylist and salon owner for 28 years. You help salons price themselves. I love how you have that by the way, is a primary thing, because it's so important. 6 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:14,000 You help salons and beauty professionals price themselves properly so they profit more because at the end of the day, that's kind of what keeps us ticking, isn't it? The fact that we're financially healthy. And you're an oligo and Vish salons ambassador. Yeah. So I, well, you know, you know, I do a little bit of, do a little bit of research. 7 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:15,000 Nina Tulio (00:43) 8 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:15,000 Yes. 9 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:16,000 Yes. 10 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:17,000 Yes. You got, you did your homework. 11 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:18,000 The Hair Game (00:57) 12 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:18,000 So why don't we start with you personally, where are from originally and how did you get into this business? 13 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:19,000 Nina Tulio (01:03) 14 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:19,000 So I'm originally from Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, which is part of the Lehigh Valley. And it's about an hour north of Philadelphia. And I, it's insane. I kind of was like, when I tell the story, it's so funny because it's, it's so opposite of what I wanted to do. You know, I want it to either be a dolphin trainer or I want it to be a hairstylist. I am dead ass. Yes. I want it to be a dolphin trainer. I was maybe like, 15 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,000 The Hair Game (01:25) 16 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,000 No come on, you're making that up dolphin trainer. Come on. When you were like 13? 17 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:21,000 Nina Tulio (01:33) 18 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:21,000 Yeah, like 10, 10, 12, know, 13. I like, I went to SeaWorld and I was like, wait a minute, this is what I wanna do. I love animals and really, really passionate about animals and helping animals. So I'm like, I wanna do this. This looks like something really cool. And it was something that I thought about for a long time. And then I'm like, wait a minute, I love doing hair. Maybe I could be a hairstylist. 19 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:22,000 The Hair Game (01:36) 20 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:22,000 You went to SeaWorld. 21 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:23,000 Nina Tulio (01:58) 22 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:23,000 When my mom told me that I was going to have to go to college to be a dolphin trainer and I was going to have to share a dorm with people and I was going to have to, and I was like, absolutely not. You're to have to share a bathroom with a whole hall of people. And I was like, there's no way can do that. I was like, hairstyling it is. So I ended up signing up for my VOTEC and I was the first person in my class to sign up for my vocational studies. I was in ninth grade, I think when I did that, cause it didn't start till I was in 10th grade and 23 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:24,000 The Hair Game (02:11) 24 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:24,000 Huh. 25 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:25,000 Nina Tulio (02:26) 26 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:25,000 Hence my journey began, you know? that was in, I mean, I graduated cosmetology school, because I didn't finish all of my hours in VOTEC. So I had about 250 hours I had to continue at Allentown School of Cosmetology. And I graduated in 1997. And I've just been doing my thing ever since. And I've just served in so many facets within this industry. I'm just so passionate about serving people. And I get to do it in the most amazing and most beautiful industry ever. 27 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:26,000 So yeah, here we are. 28 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,000 The Hair Game (02:58) 29 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,000 Well, I love that. Okay, so you came out of school and your path through, your path kind of ⁓ through different salons and behind the chair, give us just a summary of that. Was it rather traditional or was it different in any way? 30 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:28,000 Nina Tulio (03:13) 31 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:28,000 It wasn't actually, 32 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:29,000 no, ⁓ I graduated and I ended up working for a small salon just a few days a week. And then I ended up working at Circuit City. I don't even know if you would know what circuits. Yeah. It's like a Best Buy type. Okay. ⁓ 33 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:30,000 The Hair Game (03:23) 34 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:30,000 ⁓ interesting. I am old enough to know what Circuit City is. I'm 35 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:31,000 almost 50 years old. I've told the listeners a number of times that I'm almost 50 years old. December 24th, by the way, listeners, I don't think I've ever told anybody my actual birthday. That is my actual birthday. So you can send things to me through the mail if you want. Birthday gifts. ⁓ 36 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:32,000 Nina Tulio (03:35) 37 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:32,000 Yeah. 38 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:33,000 ⁓ the date. 39 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:34,000 send all the things. Yep. Hint, hint. 40 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,000 The Hair Game (03:50) 41 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,000 So yeah, Circus City was kind of the best buy. Actually, was it pre-best buy or kind of in the same? 42 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:36,000 Nina Tulio (03:57) 43 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:36,000 I think it 44 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:37,000 was in the same. think Circuit City was around maybe a little bit longer. I could have it wrong, but I mean, I think they were competitors, obviously. And I ended up working there and started out in customer service. And then I became the customer service manager and they sent me away to this amazing management and business training for a week, which I fell in love with. And part of that journey, it didn't end well. actually, a lot of my friends that I have to this day are from Circuit City, they're employees. 45 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:38,000 The Hair Game (04:17) 46 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:38,000 interesting. 47 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:39,000 Nina Tulio (04:27) 48 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:39,000 Some of the best times that I've had are in that place of business. And I learned a lot about sales. I learned a lot about people, but it just didn't, it just wasn't the vibe I was looking for. I wanted to be a hairstylist. So my mom saw this ad, this woman was hiring for people for the small chain in my town and I applied and that changed my entire life because the woman that I ended up working for, Robin Turner, is still my mentor to this day. 49 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:40,000 And her and her husband owned over 200 hair salons in the tri-state area. And so I started working there with her. became a manager there. Then I became the district manager of her eight stores. So I just worked for her, not him. ⁓ And yeah, I had 55 employees, eight direct reports, and we built that thing up and she ended up selling it. And he ended up selling his chain. And we ended up moving to West Palm Beach, Florida to start. 50 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:41,000 a chain of our own salons together. So I was partners with them and we opened up five salons in one year in Southern Florida. Yes. That was in 2000. It was right when the, um, it was the boom of the real estate boom. it was 2000, 2005, 2000, no 2004, 2005 that in that area. And, um, from there I 51 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:42,000 The Hair Game (05:29) 52 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:42,000 No. my god, what year was that? 53 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:43,000 Okay. Okay. Wow. 54 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:44,000 Nina Tulio (05:50) 55 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:44,000 I was with them for about eight years, you know, moved from home to live in West Palm beach. My mom ended up moving to Florida, getting her own place. We enjoyed it, but I just felt like I needed to do my own thing. I needed to fly solo. You know, it was kind of under her wing for so long. I really wanted to do my own thing. So I walked away from such an amazing mentorship, you know, compensation package and moved back to Pennsylvania. Didn't have a job. 56 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:45,000 And decided that I wanted to start my own salon and it took me about six months to get it up and kicking and going. And that was the start of my journey of owning my salon, Anthony Ashley. And I had that salon for 11 years. I worked behind the chair for nine of those years. I had an amazing team, but the first five years was a complete and utter shit show for me. I, I. 57 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:46,000 The Hair Game (06:36) 58 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:46,000 Why is that? 59 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:47,000 Nina Tulio (06:38) 60 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:47,000 I almost closed my doors twice. I was $90,000 in debt by the time I was in year four. And I had to do some real soul searching and I had to do some, really deep diving into my own self and my own leadership to turn the business around. And it was during the height. So my like darkest moments were in the height of the recession of 2009. 61 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:48,000 So it was just it was a bad time, but it was a time that I actually cherish because it allows me to show up the way that I do for stylists and owners. Now, you know, my story of being broke and being in debt and only almost closing my doors during that time is a reality for a lot of people. And I get to show them that I made it out on the other side, that there is hope. There's a lot of hard work and introspection that has to go into that. But ⁓ 62 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:49,000 After year five, I was like, this shit sucks. I can't keep living like this. 63 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:50,000 The Hair Game (07:39) 64 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:50,000 Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I'd like to spend a little more time 65 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:51,000 in the swamp of those years. Yeah. So tell us why, okay, I think most of us listening remember or had some experience in the great recession of ⁓ eight, nine, 10ish. know, things started turning around 10ish, 11ish, but still, you know, it takes a couple of years. It took a couple of years for things to kind of 66 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:52,000 Nina Tulio (07:45) 67 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:52,000 In the swap. Okay. Yes. Yes. Let's do it. 68 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:53,000 The Hair Game (08:08) 69 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:53,000 ⁓ steady into an like an equilibrium that we've become kind of accustomed to. But what was happening? So was it hard to find hairstylists? Was it hard to find clients? You know, why was it so difficult? 70 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:54,000 Nina Tulio (08:22) 71 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:54,000 It was me. It was me. I was making bad. No, I was making poor financial decisions. I was trying to run a salon business without having a clear vision and mission of my own brand. I was. 72 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:55,000 The Hair Game (08:24) 73 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:55,000 What were you doing? Stand up late drinking? 74 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:56,000 Okay, so give us an 75 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,000 idea and so each of these are gold. Okay, I just want to get super specific. what give us an example of a bad financial decision or two or three that you're making. 76 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:58,000 Nina Tulio (08:41) 77 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:58,000 Mm-hmm. 78 00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:59,000 So I was spending money. was spending marketing dollars without having a plan. I'm like this looks good. That looks good. This salons doing that magazine. I'm going to do that. I'm to do that. But I didn't know who I was or what I was trying to market. I was like everybody else is doing this and this seems to work. So let me try it. And those those dollars were not being spent well because there was no return on investment. People were not making the connection there. 79 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:00,000 I also was spending, I didn't have a marketing plan, so it wasn't marketing my business properly. Aside from the money that I was putting into like magazines and things like that, I wasn't, you know, spending time on the things that matter to me, like relationship building and referrals and community driven things that I felt would be the best for me. I felt really lost at that time. Aside from that, ⁓ I, I was also in a really bad relationship. 80 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,000 And I think that did contribute to the way that I was showing up. I felt very, I didn't have a lot of confidence in myself, but I also didn't have a lot of confidence in my business and my leadership. So it was just like poor decision after poor decision. And then to cope on top of that, I was spending money like on shoes and weird shit just to kind of like, you know, get by exactly. And it just turned into a complete shit show and 81 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:02,000 The Hair Game (09:48) 82 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:02,000 Hmm. 83 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:03,000 Make yourself feel better. 84 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:04,000 Nina Tulio (10:16) 85 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:04,000 However, I will say this, those marketing dollars, yes, they were not well money spent, but there was one ad that I did run that did turn my business around. And so there was one moment where I'm like, okay, the morning call, which was the newspaper in my town was like, we're running an ad and we want to know about local businesses and who they are. And people love that shit, right? They eat it up. And so it was, I think it was like 500 and some dollars. And I was like scraping pennies to do this. 86 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:05,000 like my last dollars to do this ad. And they said, it's going to run to maybe, I don't know, 15, 18,000 people will make it look nice. Well, I got a phone call, I think a day or two before it was supposed to run. And they said, we didn't have enough people to participate. So we're going to run your ad full circulation, which is like a hundred thousand people for the same price. And I was like, thank you, Lord. Like, because I was praying big time, I was sick. I was losing weight. I couldn't eat. It was a bad time. 87 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:06,000 The Hair Game (11:07) 88 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:06,000 Amazing. Amazing. 89 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:07,000 yeah. 90 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:08,000 Nina Tulio (11:16) 91 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:08,000 And 92 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:09,000 so that moment, that article went out the next morning, I had 18 voice mails of people wanting to book appointments with me. And so that was a very pivotal moment. So it's like all of those money spent, all of those dollars spent before didn't matter, but it was that one moment of 500 and some dollars that actually changed the trajectory of my business. 93 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:10,000 The Hair Game (11:40) 94 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:10,000 Interesting, interesting. Okay. So you had enough hairdressers in the salon. You just didn't have enough. There are two of you. Okay. Small shop. So, ⁓ okay. You just didn't have enough clients. And so you were spraying marketing dollars, maybe shoveling them into the fire, ⁓ wasting money. And that once was, it was a great score. Okay. 95 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:11,000 Nina Tulio (11:47) 96 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:11,000 There was two of us. Small, small shop. 97 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:12,000 Mm-hmm. 98 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:13,000 The Hair Game (12:08) 99 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:13,000 So we're kind of developing the picture here. All right. So that was the making unwise financial decisions. You mentioned it was a difficult personal time as well, which of course can just exacerbate, you know, all the difficulties and make it harder to have that kind of tenacity and grit and kind of equanimity, that kind of, ⁓ you know, emotional stability that a business requires, right? You know, for you to maintain your 100 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:14,000 Nina Tulio (12:10) 101 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:14,000 Mm-hmm. 102 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:15,000 Sure. Yeah. 103 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:16,000 The Hair Game (12:37) 104 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:16,000 your composure through all the difficulties that a business can throw your way. Okay, so what else was tough about that time? Or what other things were making it difficult for you? 105 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:17,000 Nina Tulio (12:50) 106 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:17,000 I think it was just the lack of planning, the lack of vision, the lack of mission, the lack of branding that part, the lack of knowing who I was outside of Nina. was understand. It was the lack of understanding of who I wanted to serve and how I was going to serve them and how I was going to be unique in that way. I didn't really have that and I didn't have a plan or a strategy around it. And I think 107 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:18,000 The Hair Game (12:55) 108 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:18,000 Branding okay. Yeah 109 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:19,000 Nina Tulio (13:21) 110 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:19,000 You know, I feel like our personal life and our business life, they do run parallel. And when one isn't going well, it's not great on either side. And I can tell you that when I hit my bottom, which was the $90,000 in debt, it was like I had to sink or swim. I am a very gritty person. I will do whatever I have to do, but I was being questioned. I was questioning myself and every single decision that I was making. 111 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:20,000 And I prayed a lot and I'm like, listen, you are better than this. used to, had to have some hard conversations with myself in the mirror. And I'm like, you want this? You started this. You have to finish this. You have an employee. And I think I had, by that time, I think maybe toward the latter part of that, I had two employees. I'm like, you have people who are trusting you and relying on you to make this shit work. Get your shit together. 112 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:21,000 And so I started to really look at myself in the mirror and say, what kind of leader do I have to be to make changes? I know how to run a business. have two of the best mentors in the game that taught me everything I need to know. Why are you fumbling? You know, and I just had to give myself this tough love. And so from there, I made a really hard decision to two tough decisions. I made a decision to sell my home, to keep my business and 113 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:22,000 that, ooh, this is making me emotional. And you know, this is so long ago, but I think this stuff still lives within us, right? Because it ⁓ is a part of our story. And I think it was, I had to do it for myself because I promised myself that I would do whatever it takes to keep this business going. But I also had to do it for the people that were relying on me who turned down other jobs to be with me and trusted me. And that was a big freaking deal for me. And so I sold my home. 114 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,000 The Hair Game (14:48) 115 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,000 yeah. 116 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:24,000 Yeah. yeah. 117 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:25,000 Nina Tulio (15:13) 118 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:25,000 And the other hard decision was to move into a space that was three times the size and double the rent during this downturn. 119 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:26,000 The Hair Game (15:27) 120 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:26,000 Okay, so expand. Okay, so you thought to yourself, okay, I'm going to double down on this. I'm going to, so fight or flight mode, right? You're going to fight, you're going to duke this out. You're going to have the grit and tenacity that we just talked about, or you're going to throw in the towel and quit. And you decided very consciously that you're not going to quit and you're going to duke this out and you're going to go through the process of 121 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:27,000 Nina Tulio (15:29) 122 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:27,000 Yes. 123 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:28,000 The Hair Game (15:54) 124 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:28,000 introspection and the very uncomfortable sort of self-analysis, you know, that sometimes we have to go through and recognize that, you know, the things you're doing wrong and you almost have to get out of yourself for a little bit and look, right? Because if we stay within ourselves, it's too emotional. It's like we don't want to feel bad. But sometimes you need to have a little feel bad in order to fix what's wrong. 125 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:29,000 Nina Tulio (16:10) 126 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:29,000 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 127 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:30,000 Right. 128 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:31,000 Right. Yeah. 129 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:32,000 The Hair Game (16:25) 130 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:32,000 Right? And 131 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:33,000 if you don't go through the process, you're going to keep doing the wrong thing. So you are very wise to do that. And ⁓ that's how we get better as people, you know? And that's where that real sense of self-accomplishment comes from. You know, it makes us feel good to go out and buy a nice pair of shoes or whatever. 132 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:34,000 Nina Tulio (16:38) 133 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:34,000 Yeah. 134 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,000 Mm-hmm. 135 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:36,000 The Hair Game (16:48) 136 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:36,000 makes us feel good in the moment, but that of course leads us continuously down the wrong path. And then we feel bad, we feel guilty, you know, days later or whatever, or a month later, whenever the credit card bill comes. What really makes us feel good long-term is doing this process that you're describing right now. 137 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,000 Nina Tulio (17:06) 138 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,000 Yeah, and I can say that it was definitely the hardest time, one of the hardest times in my life, but I also knew that I had to bet on myself. There was nobody that was going to do this for me, and everything that I created was my fault. So there is a big accountability piece. When you're in the trench, you have to own your shit. I couldn't blame 139 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:38,000 The Hair Game (17:31) 140 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:38,000 take responsibility. 141 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:39,000 Nina Tulio (17:32) 142 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:39,000 Yes, I couldn't blame the stylist. couldn't blame the economy. I couldn't blame the, you know, that people weren't coming in. I couldn't blame the environment. It was me and I had to own that. And, you know, things got so bad to the point where creditors were calling the threat and to take my furniture out of the salon. And at some point I had to tell my team what was going on because they were getting the calls and it was just, was, it was just messy, messy, messy. And it was chaotic and that's not how I wanted to live. And so 143 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:40,000 I made some really bold moves and I remember telling my mom that I was, was choosing this new location to go into, which was a location that I had my eye on. It was on a beautiful street and it was close enough to my salon, but far enough away. And she said, you're crazy for doing this at this time. You're moving into a place by the way, it had like 43 other salons within six blocks of the space that I was choosing. And I said, right. 144 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:41,000 The Hair Game (18:24) 145 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:41,000 Mitsu is probably a good place. 146 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:42,000 Nina Tulio (18:27) 147 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:42,000 And I said, Mom, I have to do this, because if I don't, I will close this business. And I found a landlord that was a friend of a friend of mine. And he took a rider, took a bet on me, and really kind of like scooped me up. And ⁓ he believed in me. And it helped me believe in myself. And so I just hit the ground running with my team. 148 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:43,000 The Hair Game (18:50) 149 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:43,000 Okay, so 150 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:44,000 before you go on, help us reconcile the business is struggling, everything's difficult with the I'm gonna go into bigger space and take more chances. 151 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:45,000 Nina Tulio (19:01) 152 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:45,000 Well, because I feel like it's this the location became available and I'm like you you gotta go big or go home when there is there is adversity and there is challenges there is also opportunity and I knew that and I knew that this was going to be my one shot to get this location which would position the business in a better light and in a better space. It would also be a bigger space to be able to expand. 153 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,000 the service offerings and get a team in that we could make this thing really, you know, pump and grow. And with the landlord working with me with the rent, because he's like, all right, I'll get you in at a little bit lower of a rent. And then every year it's going to balloon. So it's going to go up. Just so you understand. I said, I'm in. I also had to borrow $5,000 from my best friend, Gus, to just rehab the space. And I said, yes. And I, and he gave me the money, no questions asked. Not even like, when are you going to give it back? He just said, here, absolutely. 154 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:47,000 The Hair Game (19:50) 155 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:47,000 It's uncomfortable. 156 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,000 Nina Tulio (19:58) 157 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,000 And my promise was I will pay you in one year and I paid him in one year. And so you have to find that grit within yourself and that belief that your vision and your mission and your, reason why you're doing this is bigger than any fear that you have ever ⁓ come in contact with. And so my why was driving me, my why was driving me every single day. And it's what I use to push myself through. And I'm just not a quitter. You know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't give up on myself or my dream. 158 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,000 The Hair Game (20:28) 159 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,000 it's beautiful. so I have a, you know, the note section on an iPhone or I'm sure Android phones have a similar, you you write notes and stuff like that. So I have lots and I have one of my favorite notes is what I call principles. And these are just personal principles and things that I encounter and kind of, you know, ⁓ 160 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:50,000 I experienced them a few times and think to myself, ⁓ maybe I should write this down because this is going to keep happening to me. And I'd like to write it down somewhere. Maybe it's something I read in a book and I'm like, that's amazing. Well, anyway, this reminds me of one of my principles that I wrote down so many years ago. And I think the phrase might have come out of a book because I don't remember, but I wrote down, chances are you will meet many threshold of control moments, threshold of control in quotes. 161 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,000 You have the choice to focus intensely on executing or focus on fear and failure. Human nature has us fearing failure and loss over anything else. So learn to focus on execution. Exercise that muscle and you'll get better. What used to be hard will be easy. 162 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:52,000 Nina Tulio (21:40) 163 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:52,000 Amen. listen, that part, because, a lot of what I share and teach is that when you're still in stuck, the fear will, like, it will cover your entire soul. When you take action, you're walking through that fear. Now we have to take, the action has to be strategic in a way. But if we stay still in stuck, 164 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:53,000 The Hair Game (21:42) 165 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:53,000 and that's what you're doing. 166 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:54,000 blind you. 167 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:55,000 Good. 168 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:56,000 Nina Tulio (22:08) 169 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:56,000 The fear is going to take over our entire soul. But if we come up with a plan and we start to take action, I'm a big action person, because I don't want to be still and stuck. And that's exactly what you're saying. You know, there has to be movement. And when we have moments, I have moments in my business still where I feel paralyzed and I'm like, hold on a minute. What, do I need to do that is in alignment with my core values and my mission and my vision for this business that I haven't done? 170 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:57,000 What's causing me to be stuck, but what is the action that's going to take to get me out of it? 171 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,000 The Hair Game (22:43) 172 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,000 That's the focus intensely on execution. Yeah. And it allows you to kind of shed the fear that's holding you back. Okay. So, so this is amazing. All right. So you open up the new place, you have a, a kind of renewed sense of action or execution and, and how did it go? 173 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:59,000 Nina Tulio (22:45) 174 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:59,000 Mm-hmm. Yeah. 175 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:00,000 Sure. Yeah. 176 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,000 It went great. You know, there were bumps in the road for sure, but I ended up, I joined the chamber of commerce. I was Waldo. I was out everywhere with my team. We were taken over the community. ⁓ you know, we were going to events every month. I was out almost every week and I decided to dial in my brand. I started to pay attention to my culture and my values and my beliefs and dial that in so tightly and really hire in people that were. 177 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:02,000 The Hair Game (23:07) 178 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:02,000 Amazing. 179 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:03,000 You 180 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:04,000 Nina Tulio (23:35) 181 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:04,000 along for that ride and really believed in me and my brand and my mission. had an amazing team and still I am still close with them to this day. I would do anything for them. ⁓ And they, we worked together and we just like became so clear on who we were and who we were serving and we did serve them the best that we absolutely could. We were very focused on ⁓ the client experience and with their help and support, we were able to grow the business. 182 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,000 20 to 30 % from year six to year 11 when I sold it. And by year nine, I was able to back away from working behind the chair so I could really focus on the team and really grow this thing even bigger and better so I could sell it, which is what I ended up doing in 2016. Yeah. 183 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,000 The Hair Game (24:24) 184 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,000 Okay, amazing story. So you sell it and then what? 185 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,000 Nina Tulio (24:29) 186 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,000 So I sell the salon. ⁓ that was bittersweet. That sent me into a whole spiral. I didn't know who I was. I lost my identity. And with that, my husband and I ended up moving to Connecticut from Pennsylvania for his job. So I was in a new place, in a new state where I didn't know anyone. And now I'm like, who the hell am I? Like, I just sold this business. I don't get to see my team every day. I don't see my clients every day. Who is Nina Tullio? 187 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:08,000 The Hair Game (24:34) 188 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:08,000 Tell us. 189 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:09,000 Nina Tulio (24:56) 190 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:09,000 And I went down this journey of self-exploration and journaling and all the things. And I'm very, you know, spiritual and I love taking care of and trying new things. Anything that's going to get me to grow. I've been in therapy since I'm 21 years old. And I decided that, and I knew that I wanted to do what I'm doing now. I started to create like little workbooks and stuff in 2014 before I sold the business of like, 191 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:10,000 helping stylists, but my main focus was really to help salon owners because it was dark and lonely being a salon owner. And I really wanted to come together with local salon owners and really work together and how can we grow each other? How can we support each other? And so the mission when I left was, first of all, figure out who the hell I was and what I wanted to contribute into this beautiful industry and also ⁓ decide how I was gonna do it. So I took a little bit of a beat. 192 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:11,000 You know, for a few months, I would say maybe six months or so figured some of my shit out and then started to go all the way in on my consulting business with helping salon owners and hairstylists to really grow their business. And that was eight and a half years ago, you know? And when I started out, no one was listening. You know, no one was listening at that time. was rough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm For sure. 193 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:12,000 The Hair Game (26:05) 194 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:12,000 Interesting. 195 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:13,000 It's frustrating how that happens. When we start something, nobody cares. Yeah. 196 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:14,000 Of course, we expect everyone to care because we care so much because it's so exciting. We just started something. Nobody cares. 197 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,000 Nina Tulio (26:18) 198 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,000 We care. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. 199 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:16,000 Yeah. It was a different time. know, business education wasn't like it was like it is now, you know, COVID changed that for our industry in terms of business education and the curiosity behind it. But in two, you know, when I was doing this one was a 2017, there wasn't a lot of people doing business education and stylists and owners just weren't running. 200 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,000 you know, beating doors down to learn about business education. So I had to really lean into myself and my own truth and story and experience and authenticity to share. And I used to go to my cause my husband's in marketing and I'm like, what do I have to do to make this happen? Like all stylists, right? We want things and we want them right now. We want shit to happen right now. And he's like, be consistent in your approach and be very consistent in your messaging. like, I 201 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:18,000 Really? That's the answer you're going to give me. Like there's no magic wand. Like, are we going to have a fight over this? And he's like, I'm telling you, keep showing up every day, keep showing up every day. And I, and I share this quote that he said to me and I'll share it today. Cause I think it's so powerful, but in moments where I was struggling and on the floor in the bathroom, crying, figuring, like thinking to myself that this coaching path, maybe this isn't for me. And he would say, listen to me. I want you to look at me right now, because this is this moment right now is when 99 % of the people give up. 202 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,000 Are you the 1 % or are you the 99 %? And I look him dead in the face and I said, I'm the fucking 1%. Let's go. Like you're going to, you're going to challenge me. Like I will rise from the ashes and go mock 10. And that's the, that's the kind of conversation that you kind of have to have with yourself or with your partner, whoever it is. And he had to check me in that moment. And I would just show up, show up, show up. Here we are. 203 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,000 The Hair Game (28:05) 204 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,000 Sounds 205 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:21,000 like a threshold of control moment number two. And I'm chuckling because I'm imagining the dynamic between husband and wife. I have a wife and I'm like, she doesn't like it when I recommend that she do something or, you know, I don't tell her to do anything. You know what I mean? But she doesn't even like it when I recommend that she do this or that. So I chuckle thinking about that. 206 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:22,000 Nina Tulio (28:07) 207 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:22,000 Yes, yes, exactly. 208 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,000 Yeah. 209 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:24,000 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. 210 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:25,000 Yeah. 211 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:26,000 The Hair Game (28:34) 212 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:26,000 conversation that you had there, but you know, you obviously do have the grit and you are tenacious and so faced with the choice of, you know, dealing with the fear of failure or getting overwhelmed with the sense of failure or focusing on execution, you then, ⁓ again, for the second time in at least this short conversation we've had, were 213 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,000 Nina Tulio (28:36) 214 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,000 It worked. 215 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:28,000 The Hair Game (29:04) 216 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:28,000 very pragmatic You chose very clearly to focus on execution. 217 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,000 Nina Tulio (29:09) 218 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,000 Yeah, because I lived, listen, was, I was repeating history. You know, was kind of like the lesson was coming back. Nina, you've been here before. You've been through worse. Get your shit together. Yes. So, and this is where you have to really believe that you can overcome. And I've been there before, so I'm like, okay, this sucks, but I know what I have to do to make this business work and serve people the way that I want to serve them. 219 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:30,000 The Hair Game (29:21) 220 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:30,000 and you won. 221 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,000 Nina Tulio (29:36) 222 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,000 And that's what I did. And I started to create a plan and a strategy and, you know, go in lanes that people weren't going in and really dial in pricing and profit and all of those things and, and, and hone in and create strategies and calculators and things that would really make it easier for people and just show up every single day as myself with my truth and my knowledge and my story. And that's what I've been doing for the last eight and a half years. And I'm so grateful that I get to do this. 223 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:32,000 The Hair Game (30:05) 224 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:32,000 backed up by your why, you supported by your mission and your goals and all that. There's definitely days when we don't want to do what we should do. There's a lot of those days. Everybody has those days. And so those are the days when you especially need to remind yourself why you're doing it and what your goals are and just kind of give yourself a little boost that happens for everybody, including the most successful people. 225 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:33,000 who you we all know it's because they're human too. Okay so what do you have now in terms of coaching resources and what are your offerings? 226 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:34,000 Nina Tulio (30:47) 227 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:34,000 So right now, I mean, there are several ways to work together. I do a lot of in-person education, which is probably my favorite because I get to connect with people, you know, and hug in person and see their real life, you know, aha moments. So I do a lot of travel and classes in person with Oligo Professional, but I also do them on my own privately as well. I have Make That Money Live, which is like my signature, you know, in-person class and can also work with me through my courses. 228 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:35,000 put so much of my heart and soul in everything that I do and these online courses are so much value and I really price them so that everyone can have access to them. So I teach and coach a little bit differently because I cater to the independent artist, which is one way of coaching and teaching because there's a different budget and pricing system for them. And then there's a commission salon owner budget and pricing system as well, because I don't price without budgeting first. So 229 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:36,000 I wish I could blanket it, but it isn't. So I have an option, of course, is for independence. And I have an option, of course, is for my commission salon owners as well. Yeah. 230 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:37,000 The Hair Game (31:53) 231 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:37,000 Gotcha. 232 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:38,000 And ⁓ okay, so that sounds amazing. Now let's get into kind of the industry. Here we are September. I'm not sure when this episode is gonna drop. Maybe it'll be in October 2025. And so you're out there, you've got clients, you're talking about beauty professionals. What are you seeing out there? 233 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:39,000 Nina Tulio (32:07) 234 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:39,000 Mm-hmm. 235 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:40,000 There are a lot of people who are struggling. And I think we've had, this has been going on, I'd say in pockets for the last year where we have stylists and owners who are really crushing it and even expanding. And we have stylists and owners that are really struggling. And as we start to elevate and we start to like raise the bar in our industry, we have people who are going to do the absolute most to rise to it. 236 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:41,000 or we have people who are going to struggle to rise to it. And sometimes they're forced to leave the industry, which is what we're seeing. And it just breaks my heart. And so, you know, I'm trying to do, go ahead. No. 237 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:42,000 The Hair Game (32:50) 238 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:42,000 Why do you think, sorry to interrupt, but before 239 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,000 you kind of go on from there, I wanna touch on that a little bit more because I see the same thing. I see a lot of people doing awesome and I see some people struggling. And of course that's probably always been the case. And you look at every industry in the world and there's gonna be those who are doing amazing and some percentage who are doing horribly. 240 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:44,000 Nina Tulio (32:59) 241 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:44,000 Mm-hmm. 242 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:45,000 Mm-hmm. 243 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:46,000 The Hair Game (33:16) 244 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:46,000 But what is the difference? In terms of our industry specifically right now in this time, what are the key differences between those who are thriving and those who aren't? 245 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:47,000 Nina Tulio (33:28) 246 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:47,000 The ones who are thriving are absolutely open to change. They are ready to pivot. They're ready to embrace new school techniques, new school business, you know, the way they're running businesses. They're open to the change and shift of what stylists are asking for and what they need. They are also very dialed in on understanding who they are. They have a brand and a culture that is people first. 247 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:48,000 They are taking the time to make sure that they are inclusive in their culture. They are listening to their people. They understand that people want to be a part of something that's bigger than them. so if they, speaking on a salon owner's level, right, it's those things. They have to be open to change. We can't run our businesses the way we did five, 10 years ago. You we have to be more flexible in our approach. I say structured flexibility. You have to keep the structure within yourself and your brand. 248 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:49,000 but you have to be flexible in the approach and the way that you are handling your stylist and your mission and vision moving forward. You know, people don't want to work 12 hour days anymore. They maybe want to have a Saturday off. My salon owners that are killing it. And I probably have about five, six owners right now that are going to hit their first million that I've been coaching this year. They're killing it because they're like, Hey, we know things are changing. What do we have to do to stay on top of it? 249 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:50,000 We know that people are asking for more autonomy and flexibility. What do we have to do to stay on top of it? They're a flexible in that way, but still staying true to their brand. On the independent side, I would say, 250 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:51,000 they're becoming more financially savvy and more business savvy, and they're open to learning more about the business side of the industry. 251 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:52,000 The Hair Game (35:13) 252 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:52,000 It makes a lot of sense. And of course you help them with that. One of the things that you focus on is pricing. And of course an independent beauty professional is able to price themselves from zero dollars to a trillion dollars per service. And where they fall in between those two numbers is very important. And some people are confident with choosing their pricing and some people aren't. How do you coach on how to price as an independent? 253 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:53,000 Nina Tulio (35:17) 254 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:53,000 Sure. Yeah. 255 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:54,000 Ha 256 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:55,000 Well, we don't guess. You know, we don't just say, ⁓ this feels good. Or we're just going to say, well, I'm worth that. I don't talk about worth. I talk about value. And so when we start to talk about worth, eight times out of 10, we're probably going to undersell ourselves, right? When we talk about value, our skill set, our personality, the way that we deliver a client experience, our consistency in our approach, ⁓ that's different than worth. So we don't guess when we're pricing services. I have a three-part signature. 257 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,000 system that takes into all of your budgeting components first, understanding what your rent percentage is, what your payroll percentage is if you have one, what your back bar spend is, what your insurance costs, all of your expenses, they all have a percentage that we have to fall in line with. And these are things that I've created, right? Then on the next part of that is after we collect all of the data from your... 258 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:57,000 business, your demographic, your area, because the rent will drive that, then it converts to a price per minute, price per hour based on your hours worked. Now we have a baseline price per minute and a target price per minute. The baseline is where we need to be right now. The target is where we want your business to grow and how we want it to scale. Now we've got to be realistic in our approach. 259 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:58,000 We can't just say, and I see this a lot, people are like, I wanna make $200,000 a year, so I'm gonna charge $175 an hour. That's not realistic. We can't just base pricing based on what we wanna make. There are a lot of other factors that we have to take into consideration. And the market is one of them. Can your market handle $175 an hour, right? And so the third component is once we get baseline and target, then we look at each and every single service that also gets plugged into one of my calculators. 260 00:02:58,000 --> 00:02:59,000 The Hair Game (37:20) 261 00:02:58,000 --> 00:02:59,000 command. 262 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:00,000 Nina Tulio (37:32) 263 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:00,000 It shows you what your price per minute is based on the time that you're spending on each service. And it also shows you how much product cost you're allotted per service. Now that's a lot of facts. Do you feel like if we roll this out and we share this to stylists, they're gonna feel more confident in the way that they're showing up behind the chair? Absolutely yes. Because when you're not confident and you don't have the facts and data, you discount, you sleep over in the salon because you're at Beck and Call to your clients. 264 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:01,000 You are more inclined to throw in free shit because you don't understand exactly what your target profit margin is. You don't understand how much you're spending on rent, right? So my system is based on facts and data. And that's why I never talk about big town, small town pricing. There is no such thing when you work my pricing system because it is all factual based, you know? And then we throw the value in there too. And we have to understand what we're also delivering in our skill set. 265 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:02,000 The Hair Game (38:30) 266 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:02,000 Yeah, very important. Pricing has always been kind of a vulnerable sort of underbelly, you know, ⁓ in our industry because historically we haven't been so great at ⁓ it, whether it's a salon or an independent. ⁓ Some people do it great, some people don't do it great. And then comes inflation, right, 2021-ish. 267 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:03,000 Nina Tulio (38:39) 268 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:03,000 sure. 269 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:04,000 The Hair Game (38:59) 270 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:04,000 and we still are in a ⁓ higher than pre-COVID inflationary period where we've had quite a bit of spike in the last couple of years and now prices of the inflation has ⁓ slowed down, but pricing levels are still pretty high, significantly higher than they were pre-COVID. So it's a big topic of conversation now. ⁓ Consumers are... 271 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:05,000 Fueling the pinch from inflation from going to the grocery store used to cost 100 now it costs 200 their insurance used to cost 100 now it costs 300 and so on and so forth and the same for beauty professionals a lot of prices have gone up whether it's the the rent that you pay, know out on the storefront with your commission salon or the product that you buy You know, L'Oreal does a great job of increasing their prices every single year 272 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:06,000 You much higher than the rate of inflation which annoys everybody so ⁓ It's such an important thing to drill down on and I recommend that people find a good coach That they can mesh with in order to make sure that they're charging the right money because the money that they're gonna pay for the coach is is irrelevant compared to pricing yourself properly 273 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:07,000 Nina Tulio (40:21) 274 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:07,000 Mm-hmm. Absolutely. listen, one little quick stat. 77 % of small businesses close because they're not pricing their services properly or their products properly. 77%. And it's one of those things where if you don't know what you're factoring in... 275 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:08,000 you could be one of 77%. A lot of people in our industry are undercharging, which means they have to work more. Your prices control your schedule, your profit, and your sales. And if you don't have a handle on that, you end up working over 40 hours a week and you're exhausted, and you end up resenting the client. 276 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:09,000 because of the way that you're running your business, that's where the accountability comes in. So I wanted to share that because there is such an impact and there are still so many people who are undercharging and I think we've gotten a lot better, but there's still a lot of work to do. 277 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:10,000 The Hair Game (41:10) 278 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:10,000 Absolutely. What other topics are top of mind right now with helping people behind the chair? 279 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:11,000 Nina Tulio (41:17) 280 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:11,000 Top of mind, you know, I think... 281 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:12,000 There's two ways I can go with this, but I've been really big into culture and people first. you know, I'm sure you have a split audience here, whether it's independents or, you know, ⁓ owners, but leading, leading and leadership, which also falls on ahead of culture. Right. And so whether you're independent or you are a salon owner, you have to understand how to lead. 282 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:13,000 And even if you're independent and you have a receptionist with you or you have a co-artist or you have an assistant with you, you have to understand how to lead them. And I think for so long, we've struggled with people devaluing our industry that we just felt like what they were saying was true. But we are professionals and we are skilled and we are smart and we are talented and leading and leadership really has to become. 283 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:14,000 one of the most important things in your business because when you're running a business, you are leading a lot of things. When you're a salon owner, you're leading a lot of people. And when you have a team, it isn't just about you and the numbers and the branding and looking cute. It's about treating people well and making a space and an environment for them where they can speak up and it's inclusive and it's psychologically safe. And they feel like they're a part of this and they can speak their mind freely. 284 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:15,000 And I think that is one of the things that we really need to kind of focus on as we're moving into 2026. 285 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,000 The Hair Game (42:56) 286 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,000 while creating boundaries that some people on your team aren't gonna like, but those boundaries are gonna be good for the group, right? 287 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:17,000 Nina Tulio (43:06) 288 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:17,000 Yeah, it's tough. Listen, being a leader, managing people is the hardest gig, period. And I had an amazing team, but it was still tough for me. You can have amazing teams, but again, it all comes back to you. And it is walking that fine line of structure and being flexible. You you have to understand how to talk to people individually. And there has to be the standard of the business has to be very clear. You have to know your standard. 289 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,000 and you want your team to rise to that standard. And listen, they're gonna fall off every now and then. And it's not about yelling or punishing or anything. That's like far removed from my brain. It's about coaching and nurturing them and meeting them where they are and coming up with an outcome together. So I think, yes, we have to have boundaries. And listen, independence, you we went on this spin too, I think after COVID where everybody went so far to one side where the boundaries were like. 290 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:19,000 I'm not doing this. I'm not doing that. I'm not seeing you. I'm only working two hours a day. It got so far one sided that we're like, hold on a second. We got to come back to reality. My opinion is that this business is built on relationships period. And when you lose that human connection and that human touch with your team or with your clients, you start to lose a part of yourself and your business. And it starts to go off the rails. So we've kind of, I feel like we're dialing it in a little bit and we're getting back to like the grassroots of things. 291 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:20,000 But ⁓ we have to learn how to lead in a way that is still staying true to business, but also staying true to the standard of what you're setting for clients and stylists alike. 292 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:21,000 The Hair Game (44:41) 293 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:21,000 Absolutely. In the 25 years that I've been in the industry, we so quickly went down the road of putting in boundaries, barriers, stringent structures in our relationships with our clients. Whether it's the applications to then be chosen or rejected to be a client or 294 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,000 these legal contract forms that must be signed before you go in. You have to prepay for your service. You know, all of these things. And I remember seeing this, I'm thinking, geez, like our clients going to be willing to do this. It sounds right barriers. And, and some people were so they're almost giddy at the power that I think they felt. And with that kind of dynamic. 295 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:23,000 Nina Tulio (45:16) 296 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:23,000 Mm-hmm. 297 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:24,000 Yeah, it's creating barriers. ⁓ 298 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,000 The Hair Game (45:42) 299 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,000 And, ⁓ you know, as time has gone by, you know, I think there's been a percentage of clients who are like, ⁓ I think I'm going to go over there with somebody who doesn't make me sign a legal contract before I even show up, you know, because the last couple, you know, hair services that I got weren't even that great. So I, I, I don't know if this next one is going to be great or not. So I. Yeah. So I think we're at the point where. 300 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:26,000 Nina Tulio (46:05) 301 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:26,000 Right? Yeah, the value add. People are thinking about it. 302 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,000 The Hair Game (46:11) 303 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,000 We really, and I love the fact that you talk about value. The clients are looking for value. They want to make sure that, you know, let's say they can afford a service that is on the expensive side. They still need to feel like it's a decent value, even if it's, you know, a luxury price. ⁓ And it's the same with any other expensive purchase that they make, you know, a nice purse or whatever. 304 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:28,000 They feel like they have to get, you know, a $1,200 purse. They need to feel like there's enough value there to justify spending the 1200 bucks. Maybe the value is stupid. It's like, you know, your girlfriend sees it and you know, that, that makes you feel good. I call that stupid, but of course there's a lot of, there's a lot of people who don't think that's stupid. Um, yeah. So if you're, if your price does in a luxury kind of category, you need to make sure that 305 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:29,000 Nina Tulio (46:56) 306 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:29,000 Yeah. Got to do what feels good for you, right? Yeah. 307 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:30,000 The Hair Game (47:07) 308 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:30,000 that you're doing all the right things, customer service has come back so the clients find value. 309 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,000 Nina Tulio (47:12) 310 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,000 Yeah. 311 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:32,000 And I want to say this too, my favorite C word, consistent value, consistent approach in client experience, consistency in your delivery, consistency in your quality of work, consistency in price versus value, right? All of those things get into account because you could be super talented, but if the small things are slipping, 312 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:33,000 The Hair Game (47:18) 313 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:33,000 Absolutely. 314 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:34,000 Nina Tulio (47:35) 315 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:34,000 the client's gonna get tired of it and they will go somewhere else, you And there's so many options now that they have to choose from. So when the price is higher, the stakes are higher, their demands are higher, and we have to make sure that we're able to show up consistently in every way. And that's how we grow. 316 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:35,000 The Hair Game (47:53) 317 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:35,000 Do have any horror stories? 318 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:36,000 Nina Tulio (47:56) 319 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:36,000 Yes, I mean who doesn't have any hair horror stories? mean, ⁓ my gosh, I did some crazy things, but I think one of the scariest things that happened to me, I was an owner behind the chair. I was probably 15 years in at this point at least and I had a full team, you know, we're on the upswing and I had a client Colleen. She's been coming to me for years and she was like platinum blonde and she wanted to. 320 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:37,000 finally like wanted to do a little bit of dimension because we've been talking about this well. We did some dimension and added some lowlights in her platinum blonde hair and I felt like it looked cool. She felt like it looked green. So she went home and she said her hair looked green. said, okay, no problem. Come back in tomorrow. And so I tried to tone her and ended up turning her hair completely olive green. 321 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:38,000 The Hair Game (48:52) 322 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:38,000 Wow, it got more green. That's right. 323 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,000 Nina Tulio (48:52) 324 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,000 Her whole entire head now. It got more green. I'm like, you want green? I'll give you green, right? In my 325 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:40,000 mind, I'm like, I didn't see green to begin with, but you know, it was her head and she was wearing this hair and she had to feel good about it, right? I, that was a bad choice. It turned olive green like in seconds in front of my eyes. And I was like, my God. So I wrenched the shit out and I'm like in the back room sweating. My team has never seen me like this. I'm like sweating and I'm like, all right, let's try to get this, you know, together. 326 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:41,000 What am I going to do? What's my next move? And, she ended up having to leave like that because she couldn't, she didn't have time. So she had to come in the next day. Yep. She had somewhere to go. And the next day she came in, it was a Saturday and I stayed and I had a foil her whole entire head to get all of that out. I think I actually did like a bleach wash first. And then I did some foiling heavy. 327 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,000 The Hair Game (49:31) 328 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,000 She had somewhere to go. 329 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,000 Nina Tulio (49:46) 330 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,000 And then finally what we got through it, but it was days of sickness and sweating and like beating myself up over it. And then the whole team is there and everybody sees it. And it's like a whole show, you know, but it was another teachable moment, you know, and you just, you live, you learn, you do what you can and you do what's right by the client. And she ended up, you know, staying my client till I left, of course, and she was really good about it. ⁓ it could have been really a lot worse, but that was probably one of my horror stories or another one where I grabbed my thinning shears and. 331 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:44,000 sliced the whole front of my client's head off because I thought I grabbed the wrong shears. was fun. 332 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:45,000 The Hair Game (50:19) 333 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:45,000 Right, the wrong shears? Yeah, we've had 334 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:46,000 that one. We've never had an olive toning accident though. Yeah. Maybe. There you go. Subconsciously, you liked green that day. And that bled into your choices in your service. 335 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:47,000 Nina Tulio (50:26) 336 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:47,000 Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I had olive green pants on that day, too. was like, everybody's like, she's matching your pants. I'm like, great. Exactly what I want to hear. Yeah. I did. I was trying to get her hair to match. 337 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:48,000 The Hair Game (50:45) 338 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:48,000 any last words for the community 339 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,000 Nina Tulio (50:50) 340 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,000 And I would say trust your decisions. know, believe in yourself enough to know that you have to be your biggest cheerleader. And when you have an idea or a thought or something that you want to do or you want to try, do it. Don't look at what everybody else is doing. Lean into your own brand and your own brand authenticity, authenticity and voice and trust yourself and do it. And you know what? If it flops, so what? 341 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:50,000 At least you said you did it. You can pivot and you can shift and change. But I think a lot of us, you know, we don't want to look back and say, wow, I didn't do the things that I wanted to do. I wish I would have, trust yourself and, and, and trust your gut for sure. Cause so often we, don't listen to that, know, and it can take you a lot further than you think. 342 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:51,000 The Hair Game (51:41) 343 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:51,000 Awesome. Thank you so much, Nina. This was great. 344 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:52,000 Nina Tulio (51:43) 345 00:03:51,000 --> 00:05:00,000 Thank you so much for having me, I appreciate it.