1 00:00:01,216 --> 00:00:02,456 Tyson, welcome to the show. 2 00:00:02,456 --> 00:00:03,428 Great to have you. 3 00:00:03,428 --> 00:00:05,641 Thanks, Brian, it's really great to be here. 4 00:00:05,974 --> 00:00:12,314 Yeah, I love the idea, the philosophy behind your new book, The Objective Mix. 5 00:00:12,774 --> 00:00:19,584 It's nice to have somebody coming in and saying, like, hey, like, yeah, like, gear's great, but you don't need all the best stuff. 6 00:00:19,584 --> 00:00:24,104 There's more important fundamental things we need to understand first. 7 00:00:24,104 --> 00:00:28,014 And I know so many people get caught up with, am I using the right thing? 8 00:00:28,014 --> 00:00:35,652 I don't even know if I can get started until I get these monitors or this room treated or this, you know, $800 compressor plug-in. 9 00:00:35,652 --> 00:00:37,383 Yeah, I know. 10 00:00:37,383 --> 00:00:44,027 mean, think we've all been there just like trying to get started in music, especially like as a bedroom producer, which is where I come from as well. 11 00:00:44,027 --> 00:00:49,700 It's just you look at the top of the pros, whatever, that are doing this for a living. 12 00:00:49,700 --> 00:00:50,910 You're like, well, they have all this gear. 13 00:00:50,910 --> 00:00:54,542 Like, I obviously need that to be able to get this quality and everything like that. 14 00:00:54,542 --> 00:00:56,634 I actually will have a question for you. 15 00:00:56,634 --> 00:01:02,957 So if I had to take you all the way back to the beginning of your music journey. 16 00:01:03,055 --> 00:01:07,411 and you could either take your skills that you have now or the gear that you have now. 17 00:01:07,411 --> 00:01:09,275 Which one would you take back with you? 18 00:01:10,094 --> 00:01:11,234 that'd the skills. 19 00:01:11,234 --> 00:01:12,014 Yeah. 20 00:01:12,014 --> 00:01:13,414 I'd love to have that. 21 00:01:13,414 --> 00:01:14,574 Yeah. 22 00:01:15,154 --> 00:01:17,494 Why would I say skills? 23 00:01:17,714 --> 00:01:18,214 Yeah. 24 00:01:18,214 --> 00:01:20,324 Cause I wouldn't know how to use the gear anyway. 25 00:01:20,324 --> 00:01:21,934 What good would it be? 26 00:01:22,074 --> 00:01:23,155 You know? 27 00:01:23,155 --> 00:01:23,695 Yeah. 28 00:01:23,695 --> 00:01:34,688 And that's like the philosophy that I like to like teach students of mine and just publicly anybody who's come into any of my content is just focus on like the why the goal 29 00:01:34,688 --> 00:01:35,938 that you actually have with it. 30 00:01:35,938 --> 00:01:38,529 And then the gear is just a means to an end. 31 00:01:38,529 --> 00:01:38,789 Right. 32 00:01:38,789 --> 00:01:39,770 It's just all hammers. 33 00:01:39,770 --> 00:01:46,892 It's just different sizes of hammer based on the goal that you have for that particular track or whatever you have in front of you. 34 00:01:46,892 --> 00:01:47,642 So. 35 00:01:48,312 --> 00:01:51,736 That's a great way to put it because it makes it very clear, right? 36 00:01:51,736 --> 00:01:57,362 You sometimes think like, would I rather learn new things or just buy this thing? 37 00:01:57,503 --> 00:01:58,143 Right? 38 00:01:58,143 --> 00:02:07,934 And it can be really tempting to just think you're going to get like the easy fix, but putting it back in that context, it's like, yeah, of course, the knowledge, that's the 39 00:02:07,934 --> 00:02:09,065 important thing. 40 00:02:09,691 --> 00:02:14,267 Yeah, I mean, so often we just get like sidetracked of we want to... 41 00:02:14,267 --> 00:02:15,978 you know, get this quality right. 42 00:02:15,978 --> 00:02:20,180 And we can't with the gear that we have or skills that we have right now. 43 00:02:20,180 --> 00:02:23,491 And then we basically want to like, try to figure out what's wrong. 44 00:02:23,491 --> 00:02:26,182 Like how do I get to the goal that I want to? 45 00:02:26,182 --> 00:02:30,283 And a lot of us are inherently like a little bit egotistical, right? 46 00:02:30,283 --> 00:02:31,084 Myself included. 47 00:02:31,084 --> 00:02:35,517 I don't want to like blame myself and my skills for like not being able to achieve something. 48 00:02:35,517 --> 00:02:42,759 And so it's very easy to look externally of like, I don't have that tape emulation saturator that, you know, they're using in the YouTube video. 49 00:02:42,759 --> 00:02:44,233 So I definitely need to get that. 50 00:02:44,233 --> 00:02:49,390 before I'm able to get the quality that I'm hearing, you know, coming from that YouTube producer or whatever. 51 00:02:50,852 --> 00:02:51,362 So true. 52 00:02:51,362 --> 00:03:03,695 And even if you just have the most basic DAW or even your phone, you've got tools that are so far ahead of what they had in the past that many great classic timeless records were 53 00:03:03,695 --> 00:03:06,157 made with. 54 00:03:06,358 --> 00:03:14,866 it's, you know, this day and age, especially like that's really just not the issue for anybody having the stuff, the things. 55 00:03:14,882 --> 00:03:15,494 Yeah, really. 56 00:03:15,494 --> 00:03:22,202 Yeah, there's one thing too that actually, sorry, there's a little change in direction here, but. 57 00:03:22,202 --> 00:03:28,107 I was listening to your interview with Ian like two episodes ago, just this morning. 58 00:03:28,107 --> 00:03:38,655 And so you're, yeah, you're diving into some like of the frames that people have around like songwriting and production and just like, kind of like the philosophy behind it. 59 00:03:38,655 --> 00:03:46,000 And so I really loved that discussion and I felt like it really leaned into this whole like conversation around mixing as well. 60 00:03:46,331 --> 00:03:56,266 like including with the gear because people, I think when we first start mixing and we first start music production, we have these frames, but they're really kind of broken. 61 00:03:56,266 --> 00:04:00,148 And what I mean by frames is just like how you're viewing something. 62 00:04:00,148 --> 00:04:07,631 And so if you tell, you know, one person, a producer or like, you know, for you example, Brian, I want you to go produce me a song. 63 00:04:07,631 --> 00:04:09,522 You know what exactly what that all entails. 64 00:04:09,522 --> 00:04:16,209 So you know how to go, you know how to write the song, you know how to do the composition, the sampling, if you need to do that, you know, sound design. 65 00:04:16,209 --> 00:04:20,352 whatever you need to do to make that song happen, mixing mastering, you know how to do that. 66 00:04:20,352 --> 00:04:29,239 But yet for a beginner, if I tell you to go make a song, they're thinking like, I need to write some lyrics and maybe come up with a beat for it and then I'm good to go. 67 00:04:29,239 --> 00:04:32,482 And they don't really realize all the steps that are entailed to it. 68 00:04:32,482 --> 00:04:44,110 And so one thing that I think is really helpful for all musicians, and I really loved that interview specifically because you were talking about this whole framing of music 69 00:04:44,110 --> 00:04:46,292 production and the steps entailed. 70 00:04:46,292 --> 00:04:53,339 and by basically like chunking down into these very specialized skills back up to like the macro view. 71 00:04:53,339 --> 00:04:56,432 And so it's a very difficult like... 72 00:04:56,562 --> 00:05:05,554 thing that we run into all music production is when we're at the macro view of like, okay, does this song overall have like a good sonic balance or, know, are all the frequencies 73 00:05:05,554 --> 00:05:07,545 represented in this mix? 74 00:05:07,545 --> 00:05:17,978 And then we also have to chunk down into like, you know, how does this one kick drum sound and make sure it's punchy enough, make sure that has like the right, dynamic processing 75 00:05:17,978 --> 00:05:18,838 and all of that stuff. 76 00:05:18,838 --> 00:05:24,662 But we still have to like jump back and forth between this, like really high level and it's a really detailed level at the same time. 77 00:05:24,662 --> 00:05:26,960 So I'm not sure if you had any thoughts on that. 78 00:05:27,389 --> 00:05:36,429 Yeah, I mean, that's the whole thing, like trying to see the big picture, but then you got to get really minute and you lose sight of it as soon as you do that. 79 00:05:36,429 --> 00:05:46,109 And that's why we spend, you know, hours trying to compress kick drums and things like that, that are really small details in the big picture of it. 80 00:05:46,109 --> 00:05:52,089 mean, like really like 80 % of it is just big picture stuff. 81 00:05:52,089 --> 00:05:53,199 What are like the chords? 82 00:05:53,199 --> 00:05:55,886 What are the, kind of style of music is it? 83 00:05:55,941 --> 00:06:02,674 And then all that narrowing down is where we can get caught up and spend instead of the 20 % of time on it. 84 00:06:02,674 --> 00:06:04,104 We spend so much more. 85 00:06:04,104 --> 00:06:17,239 I think when I first started with like a four track and then ultimately like some digital hardware recorders, before there was YouTube to get tutorials from and learn about what I 86 00:06:17,239 --> 00:06:17,839 didn't know. 87 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:19,570 Like I just didn't know. 88 00:06:19,570 --> 00:06:24,872 I didn't know what a compressor was until one of my friends was at audio school and said, hey, 89 00:06:24,872 --> 00:06:26,092 You need a compressor for that. 90 00:06:26,092 --> 00:06:27,823 And I'm like, okay. 91 00:06:28,583 --> 00:06:31,264 Suddenly I just, now I need this thing. 92 00:06:31,284 --> 00:06:36,585 I thought it was just plug in your microphone and then, you know, do your best, go for it. 93 00:06:37,665 --> 00:06:42,877 but we do have all this like knowledge and all this, information out there that we can seek. 94 00:06:42,877 --> 00:06:51,633 And you don't really know what stage you're getting it for, I guess, you know, you, you, might be in the early stages and hear about like. 95 00:06:51,633 --> 00:06:57,439 dynamic EQ and multi-band distortion and it's like, you're not there yet. 96 00:06:57,439 --> 00:07:06,589 Let's learn just basic EQing first and what even is distortion before we get into like all these like minute details. 97 00:07:07,014 --> 00:07:08,454 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 98 00:07:08,454 --> 00:07:17,952 I think it's very easy to get sucked into those details though and just like completely lose sight of the bigger picture, which is like, it happened to me a lot when I was first 99 00:07:17,952 --> 00:07:19,844 like starting to learn how to mix. 100 00:07:20,364 --> 00:07:22,826 Like from my very first project. 101 00:07:23,057 --> 00:07:27,778 in 2011 I recorded an entire album for my band and then know mixed and mastered it myself. 102 00:07:27,778 --> 00:07:38,058 I didn't know what compression was either so there's not a lick of a compressor in the entire album so you know obviously it doesn't sound quite as good as it could have but 103 00:07:38,058 --> 00:07:40,267 even beyond that 104 00:07:40,267 --> 00:07:48,239 When I was like diving into when I kind of got to that like intermediate mixing level, there was a lot of things that I had learned, right? 105 00:07:48,239 --> 00:07:54,333 So I had all these different details of like, okay, this is how, you know, compressors kind of sort of works. 106 00:07:54,333 --> 00:07:59,665 Like, this is how much, you can get X number of gain reduction on a vocal or something like that. 107 00:07:59,665 --> 00:07:59,916 Right. 108 00:07:59,916 --> 00:08:07,659 And I just take these like little tiny details from YouTube or anywhere else that I had heard them and then try to like fit them into a mix. 109 00:08:07,659 --> 00:08:10,190 And I would just do all the techniques that I'd ever learned 110 00:08:10,190 --> 00:08:11,984 for that instrument, for example. 111 00:08:11,984 --> 00:08:17,704 And so I ended up with mixes that were just completely over-mixed, over-saturated. 112 00:08:17,704 --> 00:08:21,416 way too loud, but they didn't have any dynamics, right? 113 00:08:21,416 --> 00:08:24,057 Because I've just squashed everything in the mix. 114 00:08:24,077 --> 00:08:30,030 And I just reached this point, like, well, was like two years ago, I was producing music that was better than what I'm producing today. 115 00:08:30,030 --> 00:08:31,820 Like these mixes are terrible. 116 00:08:31,820 --> 00:08:39,994 And so then that would, that's what kind of started me on this journey of like, okay, obviously what I'm doing isn't working and all these like tips and tricks just don't make 117 00:08:39,994 --> 00:08:40,804 sense. 118 00:08:40,804 --> 00:08:44,596 And so that's when I kind of discovered this whole like the 119 00:08:44,596 --> 00:08:49,054 the framing thing that I was talking about earlier is like, okay, well, if I frame of 120 00:08:49,054 --> 00:08:55,707 this step of the mix is for this purpose and this is my goal from this step of the mix, then I can only focus on that. 121 00:08:55,707 --> 00:08:57,708 I don't have to worry about all these tips and tricks. 122 00:08:57,708 --> 00:08:59,629 Like those are tools to be used, right? 123 00:08:59,629 --> 00:09:05,762 Those are my hammers and screwdrivers and whatever else I have in my mix, but I don't have to utilize all of them. 124 00:09:05,762 --> 00:09:10,604 I can just pick and choose the ones that I need to accomplish the goal that I have for this step of the mix. 125 00:09:10,604 --> 00:09:18,988 And that's kind of where this entire like idea of the objective mix was born because I realized like there isn't actually an objective, like 80 % 126 00:09:18,988 --> 00:09:22,388 of what every mix has that sounds... 127 00:09:22,388 --> 00:09:31,172 industry standard or professional or whatever term you want to use there and so by creating these frames though then I was able to utilize all of those tips and tricks that 128 00:09:31,172 --> 00:09:40,902 I had learned from YouTube Effectively inside of those frames and actually get to that industry standard mix Which I was then finally able to like turn that into a career like 129 00:09:40,902 --> 00:09:46,528 do freelance mixing mastering work and all like going down that whole journey Which was super fun. 130 00:09:46,528 --> 00:09:48,949 I mean still is I still I still do it. 131 00:09:48,949 --> 00:09:50,110 So yeah 132 00:09:51,078 --> 00:09:56,308 Yeah, you like just think, we got all these things, but we must have to use them, right? 133 00:09:56,308 --> 00:10:06,417 And then you use the wrong tool and it's like, you you got like a drill set and you're trying to remove a specific drill, you know, maybe like a Phillips head drill, but then 134 00:10:06,417 --> 00:10:12,938 you get like one of those like star heads, you know, the fives and you put that in there and you strip the screw and you've like ruined it. 135 00:10:12,938 --> 00:10:15,158 Now you can't get it out at all. 136 00:10:16,223 --> 00:10:23,148 There was a mix in particular that always comes to my mind where I was like, I'm going to really start, you know, take this seriously. 137 00:10:23,148 --> 00:10:26,671 And I spent like weeks on it and all the things I'd learned. 138 00:10:26,671 --> 00:10:28,713 like you, I put everything to it. 139 00:10:28,713 --> 00:10:29,758 And I did this mix. 140 00:10:29,758 --> 00:10:32,055 I was like, yeah, I think it sounds pretty good. 141 00:10:32,215 --> 00:10:36,809 And then I compared it to the rough mix I made like a month ago. 142 00:10:36,809 --> 00:10:41,543 That was just kind of turning up the levels just so can hear it like in the car. 143 00:10:41,543 --> 00:10:45,806 And it sounded so much better than the thing I'd been working on for the last few weeks. 144 00:10:46,332 --> 00:10:48,213 And I was just like, what happened? 145 00:10:48,213 --> 00:10:52,518 I learned all this stuff and I did it all and it sounds worse. 146 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:55,601 Just blew my mind. 147 00:10:55,601 --> 00:11:02,197 But it was a wake up call and that like, yeah, like not every situation calls for every single technique and tool. 148 00:11:02,474 --> 00:11:03,155 Yeah. 149 00:11:03,155 --> 00:11:05,557 So what was your conclusion from that experience? 150 00:11:05,557 --> 00:11:10,342 Like, where did you go from there of like, okay, now how do I fix this? 151 00:11:10,583 --> 00:11:13,045 I'm just curious what your first inclination was. 152 00:11:13,220 --> 00:11:16,800 Well, it was to just start over. 153 00:11:17,580 --> 00:11:19,770 I deleted all the plugins. 154 00:11:19,770 --> 00:11:22,520 Every track had dozens of plugins. 155 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:27,900 There'd be five different EQs at different points on one track. 156 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,900 I just got rid of it all and started from scratch. 157 00:11:32,380 --> 00:11:38,425 It was also the time, too, when I realized, because I'd been on the internet, 158 00:11:38,541 --> 00:11:48,225 the dark alleys, finding all the torrent sites and I had like all the plugins illegally downloaded at the time, but I didn't know how to use any of them. 159 00:11:48,305 --> 00:11:52,606 So I decided, look, I'm going to just use the basic stuff. 160 00:11:52,687 --> 00:11:53,529 I'll learn that. 161 00:11:53,529 --> 00:11:57,698 And if I need something else, I'll go and I'll actually buy it. 162 00:11:57,698 --> 00:11:58,959 So like I'll learn it. 163 00:11:58,959 --> 00:12:00,529 I'll care about it. 164 00:12:00,710 --> 00:12:06,532 And that was a big, that was a big turning point because it forced me to like learn the DAW. 165 00:12:07,223 --> 00:12:10,455 and how these things work and when they're necessary. 166 00:12:10,515 --> 00:12:15,378 And also to realize like I don't need all that other stuff most of the time. 167 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:17,400 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 168 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,532 Yeah, I think so much of our attention gets driven. 169 00:12:20,532 --> 00:12:23,653 Just like we're bombarded daily with all the marketing. 170 00:12:23,653 --> 00:12:32,907 If you go on YouTube for five minutes and you look up any music production tutorial ever, then you're going to be bombarded with waves, advertisements, slight digital 171 00:12:32,907 --> 00:12:33,738 advertisements. 172 00:12:33,738 --> 00:12:38,780 Anybody who's ever made a plugin ever is going to be advertising to you on YouTube. 173 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:44,153 And so it's so easy to just let that take our attention away from what truly matters. 174 00:12:44,153 --> 00:12:47,314 And I think that you hit on a really important point. 175 00:12:47,314 --> 00:12:49,456 is you should always... 176 00:12:49,456 --> 00:12:53,468 focus on the tools you have in front of you and learning those really deeply. 177 00:12:53,468 --> 00:12:57,469 Because the minute we get a new plugin, we have to relearn how it works. 178 00:12:57,469 --> 00:13:00,751 And we have to relearn all the nuances of that plugin. 179 00:13:00,751 --> 00:13:12,897 And so if we are constantly switching between different brands, different plugins, different manufacturers, we lose that ability of knowing one thing really, one tool really 180 00:13:12,897 --> 00:13:13,937 deeply. 181 00:13:14,318 --> 00:13:19,460 And so oftentimes if you have 10, say bus compressors or something, 182 00:13:19,460 --> 00:13:28,470 and you're compressing your mix buss and you're not sure which one to reach for and you reach for each of them 10 % of the time you're only getting like this deep into how well 183 00:13:28,470 --> 00:13:37,611 that plugin could work for you versus you know you could get 10 times the results if you just use that one plugin 99 % of the time except for the one time it doesn't work for 184 00:13:37,611 --> 00:13:38,701 whatever reason 185 00:13:39,439 --> 00:13:41,119 Yeah, it's so true. 186 00:13:41,199 --> 00:13:50,142 Cause you just, you're actually, you think you're making a step forward when you get something new, like, all right, progressing, you know, I got this new thing, but you kind 187 00:13:50,142 --> 00:13:51,192 of make it a step backwards. 188 00:13:51,192 --> 00:13:52,552 Cause like you said, you have to learn it. 189 00:13:52,552 --> 00:14:07,266 There's that learning thing that happens in my early days, like before eBay even, you know, if I bought something from like the guitar center or whatever store it was, like I 190 00:14:07,266 --> 00:14:09,338 learned it even if like, 191 00:14:09,338 --> 00:14:11,849 It wasn't the best one or there were other options. 192 00:14:11,849 --> 00:14:13,460 I couldn't really go return it. 193 00:14:13,460 --> 00:14:16,348 You couldn't really do all the stuff you can do today. 194 00:14:16,348 --> 00:14:18,613 You can't just download something new. 195 00:14:18,653 --> 00:14:26,717 So there was a lot of like, even like kind of garbagey gear, but I did get good with it because I understood it. 196 00:14:26,717 --> 00:14:35,992 And nowadays it's more often the case where you kind of like dip your feet in the water and just kind of get an idea of what it does. 197 00:14:35,992 --> 00:14:37,763 And then you're onto the next thing. 198 00:14:38,458 --> 00:14:44,297 Yeah, I would push back though saying that, is that really garbage gear? 199 00:14:46,104 --> 00:14:47,075 because... 200 00:14:47,739 --> 00:14:49,414 okay, that's fair. 201 00:14:49,414 --> 00:14:52,872 If the intonation's completely off on your guitar, you can't really use it. 202 00:14:53,355 --> 00:14:54,111 that effectively... 203 00:14:54,111 --> 00:15:00,384 had like some like really lousy multi-effect guitar pedals, but I did learn how to use it. 204 00:15:00,384 --> 00:15:09,827 you know, they weren't great pieces of gear, you know, but, to just like kind of know what your gear can do inside and out is. 205 00:15:11,208 --> 00:15:21,052 I just, I'm much less often there than I used to be when I didn't have money to buy anything or I didn't have any other means or any other idea that there were other. 206 00:15:21,052 --> 00:15:23,800 versions or styles of things out there. 207 00:15:24,102 --> 00:15:29,722 Yeah, yeah, it definitely limits your scope when you walk into Guitar Center and there's only three options on the wall. 208 00:15:29,722 --> 00:15:33,302 So you just pick whichever one feels right at the time. 209 00:15:33,642 --> 00:15:38,702 Yeah, one example though, I actually wanted to bring up based on like, you know, 210 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,612 We all think the gear is holding us back or at some time. 211 00:15:42,612 --> 00:15:48,084 I still some days I'm like, I really wish I had this one piece of gear, really make this mix come together or whatever. 212 00:15:48,084 --> 00:15:51,836 But in reality, I know I'm just deceiving myself. 213 00:15:51,836 --> 00:16:00,230 there's Metallica is their very first studio album that they recorded and they recorded on tiny Marshall amps. 214 00:16:00,230 --> 00:16:02,221 That's all they had to record on. 215 00:16:02,221 --> 00:16:07,623 And yet that became the Metallica signature sound down the line. 216 00:16:07,623 --> 00:16:09,004 And so that's how they continue 217 00:16:09,004 --> 00:16:14,086 to record their guitars for at least the album after that i'm not sure after that but 218 00:16:14,086 --> 00:16:21,946 It's like the idea though of this gear being not as good can actually result in more unique sounds that nobody else is actually using. 219 00:16:21,946 --> 00:16:25,226 So for example, I bought a tape player. 220 00:16:25,226 --> 00:16:30,166 It's like, you know, $15, like something I picked up at the thrift store. 221 00:16:30,166 --> 00:16:33,646 And I was just playing around with it because I was like recording some vocals. 222 00:16:33,646 --> 00:16:41,056 And then I was just like playing around sending, you know, to the crappy little cassette that was inside of there and then back to my DAW. 223 00:16:41,056 --> 00:16:43,999 And I was ending up with these like really weird like 224 00:16:43,999 --> 00:16:49,429 sounds and like this awful saturation that was like being added by this really cheap cassette player. 225 00:16:49,429 --> 00:17:02,399 But yet I could really come with some really cool sounds using it, even though it's a junk piece of gear comparatively to a $3,000 reel to reel tape player that's actually made for 226 00:17:02,399 --> 00:17:03,119 music. 227 00:17:03,119 --> 00:17:11,679 So I think that we need to take a step back sometimes, just accept the gear that we have and figure out how can we be creative with this and think outside of the box. 228 00:17:12,553 --> 00:17:16,316 And that's kind of the key word right there is how can we be creative? 229 00:17:17,298 --> 00:17:20,421 Because you're limited now, right? 230 00:17:20,421 --> 00:17:26,447 That's where creativity is born is through the limitations and overcoming the challenges and obstacles. 231 00:17:26,868 --> 00:17:34,215 And yeah, like I wouldn't maybe want to record every track of every song through a tape machine like that, but 232 00:17:34,348 --> 00:17:35,348 I've done the same thing. 233 00:17:35,348 --> 00:17:45,108 I've sampled things to there and built instruments out of them through VHS machines or even those like micro cassettes that, know, the little things people used to like record 234 00:17:45,108 --> 00:17:46,708 their ideas on. 235 00:17:47,208 --> 00:17:50,298 And they have just like a world about them. 236 00:17:50,298 --> 00:17:55,608 There's something interesting and place that in your mix of like more modern things. 237 00:17:55,608 --> 00:17:59,552 it's, hey, there's something going on there that catches my ear. 238 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:11,793 Yeah, bad gear is sort of, it's like a very subjective thing, I guess. 239 00:18:11,793 --> 00:18:16,489 It might be bad in this situation, but next time it might be really cool. 240 00:18:16,586 --> 00:18:18,397 Yeah, yeah, right. 241 00:18:18,397 --> 00:18:18,977 Yeah. 242 00:18:18,977 --> 00:18:23,799 I think it's also like, you have to keep in mind like what your goal is for that step of the process too. 243 00:18:23,799 --> 00:18:31,522 So, you know, if you're recording some vocals, you know, using the example that I had, like recording vocals, sending it to this cassette player and back, right. 244 00:18:31,522 --> 00:18:38,865 I, the goal was to be creative and the goal was to have like kind of a unique vocal tone that I've never used before in any other song. 245 00:18:38,865 --> 00:18:45,768 And so like that works really well versus if you have like a goal in a mix of 246 00:18:45,780 --> 00:18:49,322 you know, EQing my vocal to be a little bit brighter like that. 247 00:18:49,322 --> 00:18:50,553 technique is not going to work. 248 00:18:50,553 --> 00:19:00,717 And so it's all like using the right tool in the right situation, but always keeping in mind like what your goal is, because I find a lot of people are just processing things 249 00:19:00,717 --> 00:19:09,061 inside of their mixes or even in the music production front, just like they always compress their vocal like this, just because they always have. 250 00:19:09,061 --> 00:19:13,723 And there's no really reason why they should, or maybe somebody told them they should do that and that's why they do it. 251 00:19:13,723 --> 00:19:17,745 And so there's no like actual goal behind the move, which I find 252 00:19:19,442 --> 00:19:26,914 holds a lot of people back from like actually being able to get the quality that they want is because they're just doing something that they were told rather than actually 253 00:19:26,914 --> 00:19:31,861 understanding why they're achieving something and what the end goal of that move actually is. 254 00:19:33,583 --> 00:19:36,283 That was me to a T. 255 00:19:36,283 --> 00:19:39,743 I mean, if I'm being honest, once in a while it still is. 256 00:19:40,263 --> 00:19:43,523 there's, I mean, that's what I did so much in the beginning. 257 00:19:43,523 --> 00:19:48,463 I had like a, it was, I still have it behind me. 258 00:19:48,463 --> 00:19:53,543 It's the, the Alesis 3630 compressor. 259 00:19:53,923 --> 00:19:59,063 It's like real, it's like a hundred dollar dual channel compressor from the nineties. 260 00:19:59,063 --> 00:20:01,606 And I put it on everything like. 261 00:20:01,837 --> 00:20:03,748 I just thought it was supposed to be on everything. 262 00:20:03,748 --> 00:20:04,578 You just have to. 263 00:20:04,578 --> 00:20:06,553 And I didn't even really understand what it was doing. 264 00:20:06,553 --> 00:20:08,890 I I thought it made my songs louder. 265 00:20:08,890 --> 00:20:10,160 I thought it made the sounds louder. 266 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,641 I didn't understand it's actually turning down the volume. 267 00:20:12,641 --> 00:20:15,152 Like look what a compressor really does. 268 00:20:16,133 --> 00:20:19,914 but yeah, a lot of things suffered for that. 269 00:20:20,255 --> 00:20:28,558 I like how you take a concept like we're talking about compression now, like in your book, you took like a concept like compressing and there's so many ways and there's so many 270 00:20:28,558 --> 00:20:31,199 tutorials you can watch and so much like. 271 00:20:32,368 --> 00:20:43,851 you know, really seldom traveled side roads you can learn about with compression, but you did a really nice job kind of breaking it down into just like big picture categories. 272 00:20:43,851 --> 00:20:49,822 And I mean, I think that's kind of like what I'm seeing a lot in the book is this, let's look at the big picture. 273 00:20:49,822 --> 00:20:51,493 What are we trying to do here? 274 00:20:51,493 --> 00:20:56,944 But I think, if you don't mind, maybe just explain your take on compression. 275 00:20:56,944 --> 00:21:01,405 Cause I think that was like, just a really eyeopening way to look at it. 276 00:21:01,408 --> 00:21:02,619 Yeah, yeah, for sure. 277 00:21:02,619 --> 00:21:11,106 So this is like the one of the easiest ways that I was able to figure out compression for myself, which is why, like, obviously it's in the book. 278 00:21:11,366 --> 00:21:19,673 Because forever I was just throwing on a compressor on a track and just like tweaking knobs, like not understanding anything what I was doing. 279 00:21:19,894 --> 00:21:21,385 And then it would sound louder at the end. 280 00:21:21,385 --> 00:21:25,678 So I think it was better, even though probably what I was doing was 281 00:21:25,684 --> 00:21:29,556 very destructive to whatever audio I was working with. 282 00:21:29,776 --> 00:21:41,422 And so there's a couple of things like the baseline that I want people to understand before we dive into the specifics of compression, which is that gain and volume are 283 00:21:41,422 --> 00:21:42,343 different things. 284 00:21:42,343 --> 00:21:44,484 And I have my own definition for those. 285 00:21:44,484 --> 00:21:47,465 I want to explain that before I dive into the actual compression. 286 00:21:48,712 --> 00:21:53,946 Gain is the signal going into a process and then volume is the signal coming out of that process. 287 00:21:53,946 --> 00:22:00,372 So using compression as the example here we have gain, say we have a gain of 12 decibels going into our compressor. 288 00:22:00,372 --> 00:22:05,176 The goal is to always have 12 decibels of volume coming out of that compressor. 289 00:22:05,176 --> 00:22:07,957 So whatever process we do, whether that's 290 00:22:08,490 --> 00:22:18,206 EQ, compression, distortion, saturation, whatever that is, we should always have that volume being equal to the gain coming in, which is also known as gain staging, right? 291 00:22:18,206 --> 00:22:25,801 Because oftentimes, if something is louder, we're going to be biased that that's actually a good decision in our song. 292 00:22:25,801 --> 00:22:32,825 And the reason why I'm bringing this up in the context of compression is that compression is one of the most notorious... 293 00:22:33,758 --> 00:22:44,373 items where it changes the gain or the changes the volume coming out of that process and it biases us for or against that particular either type of compression or just that 294 00:22:44,373 --> 00:22:45,934 compressor in general. 295 00:22:45,934 --> 00:22:56,118 And so by having that kind of precursor in the way, then we can actually use compression properly as well as any other move in our mix because we can A, B it and C does it 296 00:22:56,118 --> 00:23:00,891 actually make this mix better or worse with that in the frame. 297 00:23:00,891 --> 00:23:03,632 So with that said, let's dive into compression. 298 00:23:03,632 --> 00:23:13,049 Compression is broken down into just four basic styles of compression and it all has to do with attack and release. 299 00:23:13,049 --> 00:23:22,376 Most people are focused on the threshold and the ratio of how much gain reduction am I getting and while that's an important characteristic of the compressor, it's really not 300 00:23:22,376 --> 00:23:33,034 the main point of it because the main point of a compressor is to impact dynamics and there's two types of dynamics when we're thinking about compression in general that we 301 00:23:33,034 --> 00:23:34,236 want to keep in mind. 302 00:23:34,236 --> 00:23:37,839 There's macro dynamics and then there's micro dynamics. 303 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:45,709 Macro dynamics is defined as the dynamics or the difference between loudness from note to note. 304 00:23:45,932 --> 00:23:50,583 like one entire word comparatively to another entire word or entire note. 305 00:23:50,583 --> 00:23:50,854 Right? 306 00:23:50,854 --> 00:23:55,435 And then the micro dynamics is diving into the note specifically. 307 00:23:55,435 --> 00:24:00,937 So we have the transient, which is usually the biggest fattest, you know, peak of the note right at the beginning. 308 00:24:00,937 --> 00:24:03,387 And then we have the tail, which is right after that. 309 00:24:03,387 --> 00:24:07,439 And so the goal of compression is really one of those two things. 310 00:24:07,439 --> 00:24:12,500 We're impacting the dynamics from a macro or micro standpoint. 311 00:24:12,546 --> 00:24:13,806 Let's start with macro. 312 00:24:13,806 --> 00:24:17,837 So macro standpoint, there is one type of compression that can impact this. 313 00:24:17,837 --> 00:24:22,749 And this is what I like to refer to as normalizing or consistent style compression. 314 00:24:22,749 --> 00:24:24,689 have a very fast attack. 315 00:24:24,689 --> 00:24:30,871 So right when audio crosses that threshold, we're immediately clamping down on the audio signal. 316 00:24:30,871 --> 00:24:36,433 And then we have a long release, which means that we're hanging onto that note all the way till the end of the tail. 317 00:24:36,433 --> 00:24:41,394 And so what this does is it compresses the entire note and brings it down in volume. 318 00:24:41,992 --> 00:24:50,963 And what that does though is any louder notes that we have in our track, it's going to bring those down and then the quieter notes are not going to be touched at all. 319 00:24:50,963 --> 00:24:55,498 So we have a more consistent performance overall from note to note standpoint. 320 00:24:55,499 --> 00:25:02,136 And so if we're thinking about say like an EDM track and we have a sampled kick in our track. 321 00:25:02,136 --> 00:25:10,339 There's really no point in using this style of compression on our kick because all it's doing is making the whole thing quieter and then we can use some make up gain and make it 322 00:25:10,339 --> 00:25:11,090 loud again. 323 00:25:11,090 --> 00:25:20,314 But ultimately we didn't adjust any dynamics in the track because samples are already perfectly dynamic and or perfectly not dynamic, I should say. 324 00:25:20,474 --> 00:25:22,285 Perfectly consistent inside of the mix. 325 00:25:22,285 --> 00:25:23,095 Yeah. 326 00:25:24,276 --> 00:25:28,298 And so taking that second approach into 327 00:25:28,868 --> 00:25:35,408 dynamics now is the micro dynamics, the difference between the beginning and ending of a note essentially is the way we can break it down. 328 00:25:35,648 --> 00:25:37,099 the transient and the tail. 329 00:25:37,099 --> 00:25:45,795 And so the way that I like to view this is we can either make the transient louder or we can make the tail quieter or vice versa. 330 00:25:45,795 --> 00:25:48,407 We can make the tail louder and the transient quieter. 331 00:25:48,407 --> 00:25:58,514 And so we can either increase or decrease the amount of dynamics at the micro level, which I think is a very important point to bring up when it comes to compression, because 332 00:25:58,514 --> 00:26:04,844 compression is not necessarily always reducing dynamics, which is talked about all the time. 333 00:26:04,844 --> 00:26:08,576 which I see a lot of people say, compression reduces dynamics, so don't use too much of it. 334 00:26:08,576 --> 00:26:17,880 But in reality, at the micro level, that's not actually the case, because we can use compression to reduce the tail, make the transient bigger, and that's actually increasing 335 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:18,250 dynamics. 336 00:26:18,250 --> 00:26:22,062 We have a greater difference between the beginning and the ending of the note. 337 00:26:22,622 --> 00:26:30,766 So diving into the three styles of compression that impact micro dynamics is the easiest one to really think about is thickness style compression. 338 00:26:30,766 --> 00:26:31,436 So... 339 00:26:31,436 --> 00:26:36,550 We have a note, we have a big transient, and we have a tail after that, which is quieter. 340 00:26:36,691 --> 00:26:41,636 We can use thickness style compression, which is going to be a very fast attack and a fast release. 341 00:26:41,636 --> 00:26:46,961 So fast attack is going to grab onto that transient right away and be able to squish down the transient. 342 00:26:46,961 --> 00:26:48,810 And then right when it... 343 00:26:48,810 --> 00:26:51,521 is no longer crossing the threshold of the compressor, it's going to let go. 344 00:26:51,521 --> 00:26:53,552 And so our tail is going to get bigger. 345 00:26:53,552 --> 00:26:57,774 So it's only compressing the transient of the note and leaving the tail completely alone. 346 00:26:57,774 --> 00:27:03,747 So essentially, at a macro viewpoint, it's making all of the signal actually fatter. 347 00:27:03,747 --> 00:27:08,179 And that's why it's called thickness compression, because it's making everything fat and thick. 348 00:27:08,239 --> 00:27:10,190 This is reducing dynamics, though. 349 00:27:10,190 --> 00:27:18,704 But it does make things really loud, because humans generally hear stuff from the average volume, not necessarily peak volume. 350 00:27:18,704 --> 00:27:26,947 We don't hear peak volume as humans because our ears aren't that detail oriented in terms of the time to sound ratio, if you will. 351 00:27:26,947 --> 00:27:34,670 And so we hear the average volume, which is why thickness oftentimes sounds really good to us initially because it's making things louder. 352 00:27:34,902 --> 00:27:41,505 Which again, goes back to what I said before, is why we want to make sure we're always gain staging, because that can always be... 353 00:27:41,505 --> 00:27:50,469 If I'm just adding thickness to everything, and not bothering with anything else, then it's gonna be louder, and so I might think it sounds better, when actually that may or may 354 00:27:50,469 --> 00:27:52,170 not have been the right move. 355 00:27:52,570 --> 00:27:57,813 Okay, so that's the first style of compression that impacts micro dynamics. 356 00:27:57,813 --> 00:28:00,992 And then the second style of compression that... 357 00:28:00,992 --> 00:28:03,434 impacts micro dynamics is punchy style compression. 358 00:28:03,434 --> 00:28:06,086 So this is going to be the opposite of thickness. 359 00:28:06,086 --> 00:28:10,410 So we have a long attack and a long release. 360 00:28:10,410 --> 00:28:18,987 So a long attack is essentially we can control how much of the transient we actually clamp down on once it crosses the threshold, because the assumption is the transients, loudest 361 00:28:18,987 --> 00:28:22,960 part of the note, that's what's going to essentially trigger our compressor to start working. 362 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,624 So if we have a longer attack, it's going to wait longer before clamping down on it. 363 00:28:27,624 --> 00:28:30,068 So we can clamp down on just the tail. 364 00:28:30,068 --> 00:28:40,558 of the note, and then because we have a longer release, we can essentially just focus on the tail for the entire duration of the tail, and so we have a transient that's just being 365 00:28:40,558 --> 00:28:45,533 increased in volume essentially as the end result of this tile of compression. 366 00:28:45,834 --> 00:28:53,301 Which is going to end up in a more like punchy, more forward feeling track versus thickness, right, is going to kind of push things back because that transient is being 367 00:28:53,301 --> 00:28:54,341 pushed down. 368 00:28:54,894 --> 00:29:06,654 The last style of compression is very similar to punchy style, but we have groovy style compression is kind of the best term that I have for it, which is the same as we have a 369 00:29:06,654 --> 00:29:11,004 long attack, but we have a very short release. 370 00:29:11,004 --> 00:29:16,184 So what this does is it waits until after the transient is passed before it starts clamping down on the track. 371 00:29:16,184 --> 00:29:18,824 But then it actually lets go of it right away. 372 00:29:18,824 --> 00:29:24,091 And so what you're doing is basically you have this big fat transient and then you're making a scoop. 373 00:29:24,091 --> 00:29:28,531 right behind it and then the end of the tail isn't touched at all. 374 00:29:28,531 --> 00:29:38,191 And so it's a very, very quick move, but by doing this really quick kind of dip, it's actually a pumping of the audio signal that you're feeding it. 375 00:29:38,191 --> 00:29:43,171 This will actually increase the perception of the transient being way louder. 376 00:29:43,171 --> 00:29:47,921 And also it's going to increase the natural dynamics that already exist inside of a track. 377 00:29:47,921 --> 00:29:54,166 So this is really great to use on vocals that are a little bit too thick and heavy and they don't have enough dynamics. 378 00:29:54,166 --> 00:29:56,517 or even hi-hats. 379 00:29:56,638 --> 00:30:08,847 I will use it 100 % on hi-hats because it increases the natural groove that hi-hats already have so then your overall track can just kind of feel and move a little bit more 380 00:30:08,847 --> 00:30:12,830 in the natural dynamics that already exist inside of the track, if that makes sense. 381 00:30:14,116 --> 00:30:19,194 that last one, are you listening for almost like a musical time? 382 00:30:19,496 --> 00:30:21,570 like, like with the hi-hat, right? 383 00:30:21,570 --> 00:30:25,006 Do I want that to kind of move in a rhythm more? 384 00:30:25,006 --> 00:30:27,066 Like, okay. 385 00:30:27,066 --> 00:30:30,417 Because you shouldn't hear groovy style compression. 386 00:30:30,417 --> 00:30:36,429 It's going to really make your track pump in a bad way if you can hear it specifically. 387 00:30:36,429 --> 00:30:39,370 And so I always just try to like add it. 388 00:30:39,370 --> 00:30:45,331 If it makes a difference, I can like start to tap my foot a little bit or just like move a little bit more to the music. 389 00:30:45,331 --> 00:30:52,563 Like that's a really good groovy style compression, which is another rule essentially that I created for myself and which I... 390 00:30:53,495 --> 00:31:03,280 encourage others to follow as well, is don't compress more than three decibels at any one stage of the process because you'll be tempted to over compress especially at the 391 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,781 beginning of your mixing journey because you won't be able to hear compression very well. 392 00:31:06,781 --> 00:31:11,964 It's very difficult to hear compression without having mixed for a while, probably years. 393 00:31:11,964 --> 00:31:21,528 And so if you just start immediately, I want to be able to hear this, that's fine to be able to dial in your attack and release functions, but then you should back it off until 394 00:31:21,528 --> 00:31:23,409 it's only getting again about 395 00:31:23,409 --> 00:31:32,348 three decibels of gain reduction because that's going to be enough that it's going to impact the track, nudge it in the right direction, then you can move on with another style 396 00:31:32,348 --> 00:31:40,246 of compression or just another compression in serial, which is going to react more naturally to the music or the track that I'm feeding it to begin with. 397 00:31:42,468 --> 00:31:46,439 do that move a lot where I adjust something might even be like a reverb. 398 00:31:46,439 --> 00:31:53,891 I'll bring it to where I hear it and just a little less so that I'm not overdoing it. 399 00:31:53,891 --> 00:31:57,882 Cause I think so much of this adds up in your mix too. 400 00:31:57,882 --> 00:32:03,684 Like you said, if I'm mixing something in the beginning, like, yeah, okay, cool. 401 00:32:03,684 --> 00:32:04,334 That sounds good. 402 00:32:04,334 --> 00:32:12,086 But once I start applying these things to multiple tracks, like, especially with something like reverb, like now it adds up. 403 00:32:12,161 --> 00:32:20,644 and what sounded good maybe on just a couple tracks gets muddy or, you know, just a little over mixed, overproduced. 404 00:32:20,646 --> 00:32:21,510 Yeah, absolutely. 405 00:32:21,510 --> 00:32:25,863 So I like to view like that kind of idea with EQ because 406 00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:29,041 And I use the same rule for EQ as well. 407 00:32:29,041 --> 00:32:35,984 So I never boost or cut anything more than three decibels outside of if there's like a real, you know, nasty resonant frequency. 408 00:32:35,984 --> 00:32:39,236 That's the one exception that I'll get surgical, cut that out completely. 409 00:32:39,236 --> 00:32:40,236 It's fine. 410 00:32:40,276 --> 00:32:41,607 But just for big moves, right? 411 00:32:41,607 --> 00:32:43,728 I'm only, I limit myself to three decibels. 412 00:32:43,728 --> 00:32:46,729 And the reason is let's just use vocals as the example. 413 00:32:46,729 --> 00:32:54,742 So I have a vocal track and I boost say the top end by three decibels because, you know, again, I'm being conservative in my move here. 414 00:32:54,802 --> 00:32:56,433 And then on say the vocal 415 00:32:56,433 --> 00:33:01,136 bus, I add another plugin which then adds another three decibels to the top end of the vocals. 416 00:33:01,136 --> 00:33:03,388 So now I've already added six decibels. 417 00:33:03,388 --> 00:33:11,113 Let's say on the mix bus I add another, you know, one or two decibels because my whole mix is a little dark and I want to make it brighter. 418 00:33:11,113 --> 00:33:16,056 So now I've added a total of eight decibels to my vocal already on the top end. 419 00:33:16,056 --> 00:33:19,609 And then I go to mass swing and then I add another three to four decibels. 420 00:33:19,609 --> 00:33:26,478 And so by the end of this process, right, you can see the natural conclusion, even making conservative moves, it ends in a mass 421 00:33:26,478 --> 00:33:27,378 result. 422 00:33:27,378 --> 00:33:42,112 And so it's kind of like I think you'd use the analogy of baking bread, which I love that analogy because if you assume that you know baking bread is a function of heat and time 423 00:33:42,112 --> 00:33:50,932 then you can naturally assume that I could bake a loaf of bread in like five minutes as long as I make the oven 1200 degrees. 424 00:33:50,932 --> 00:33:59,312 But anybody who's baked a loaf of bread understands that that's just gonna end up with the outside being burnt and the middle that's completely undone, which is the equivalent of 425 00:33:59,312 --> 00:34:09,852 making massive moves in your mix right away because you're listening to this reference master that sounds like it has a way more top end on the vocal, but yet you don't 426 00:34:09,852 --> 00:34:12,185 recognize that there's six more 427 00:34:12,185 --> 00:34:14,547 more steps to go before you actually reach there. 428 00:34:14,547 --> 00:34:23,813 And so, you know, just taking your time, making small moves, nudging things in the right direction over time is going to end up with, you know, that perfectly baked loaf of bread 429 00:34:23,813 --> 00:34:26,115 or perfect mix that you're actually looking for. 430 00:34:27,706 --> 00:34:29,148 Yeah, baking. 431 00:34:29,148 --> 00:34:39,476 Not that I do much of it, but I see the parallels, know, just like, overcooking things, you know, like you can't go back from that. 432 00:34:39,476 --> 00:34:43,719 It's so much harder to fix things once you've already done the damage. 433 00:34:44,841 --> 00:34:47,023 But it's a good way to think too. 434 00:34:47,023 --> 00:34:51,025 It'll keep your sounds from getting unnatural as well. 435 00:34:51,026 --> 00:34:54,138 If you're just a little careful about that stuff. 436 00:34:54,494 --> 00:34:58,406 And I guess it also increases your sensitivity to it. 437 00:34:59,807 --> 00:35:04,179 you know, before, like, I still feel like sometimes I'm doing things. 438 00:35:04,179 --> 00:35:05,120 like, I don't even know. 439 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:13,754 Like if you turned it off or if I A B it enough times real fast without looking, like sometimes I lose track of what was what was this thing on or off. 440 00:35:13,754 --> 00:35:15,695 I don't even hardly know anymore. 441 00:35:17,056 --> 00:35:24,322 cause you're just so, again, you're, you're focused so hard on something at that point that 442 00:35:24,322 --> 00:35:27,743 It's so hard to hear it as a whole as well. 443 00:35:27,864 --> 00:35:31,886 You even just mentioned like the foot tap test is that's one I like a lot. 444 00:35:31,886 --> 00:35:38,169 Like if, if I'm moving, I really try to trust what happens with my body a bit. 445 00:35:39,310 --> 00:35:40,770 that, okay. 446 00:35:40,770 --> 00:35:42,992 Like, can I move to this? 447 00:35:42,992 --> 00:35:43,912 Do I feel it? 448 00:35:43,912 --> 00:35:46,403 If that starts happening, like, okay, that's good. 449 00:35:46,403 --> 00:35:48,895 I got to not ruin that. 450 00:35:48,895 --> 00:35:53,747 And sometimes the things like compressors, can really suck the movement out of a song. 451 00:35:55,690 --> 00:35:56,905 Yeah, absolutely. 452 00:35:56,905 --> 00:36:02,187 I have a hard time doing that, like just personally, I have a really hard time doing that test very much. 453 00:36:02,187 --> 00:36:06,269 Like I think groovy compression is like one of the few times where it actually like works for me. 454 00:36:06,269 --> 00:36:16,854 But because naturally I'm a very like analytical person and I don't really like get it if you will, in terms of like the vibe check of a lot of people like, like, you know, does 455 00:36:16,854 --> 00:36:17,865 it, does it feel good? 456 00:36:17,865 --> 00:36:20,136 And it's like, I don't, I don't know. 457 00:36:20,836 --> 00:36:26,029 And just cause like I'm all stuck up in my head and I'm like, I don't, I don't know how like this is going to translate anywhere else. 458 00:36:26,029 --> 00:36:27,039 Like I just. 459 00:36:27,194 --> 00:36:30,977 I have a really hard time like personally with that like 460 00:36:30,977 --> 00:36:32,548 test, if you will. 461 00:36:32,548 --> 00:36:35,299 So I always like, am looking for the, like, okay, what is the goal? 462 00:36:35,299 --> 00:36:43,312 Like, what is the objective standard here that I can use in this situation to be able to then end up with a far better result in the end? 463 00:36:43,312 --> 00:36:51,656 Because I know like what the end goal is over here, which is again, like really the crux of my whole like philosophy around mixing and mastering is that there is an objective 464 00:36:51,656 --> 00:37:00,900 truth, which is what I adopted to my for my own mixes and masters to be able to get them to that level, which some people are approaching it from the very opposite 465 00:37:00,900 --> 00:37:10,446 standpoint, which I think that that actual like objective approach is very good for people who do approach things from a little bit more creative standpoint because they get stuck 466 00:37:10,446 --> 00:37:19,833 in the creativity and they there's because there's kind of two sides to this whole process of there's the creatives and they're usually really good at, you know, songwriting and 467 00:37:19,833 --> 00:37:22,755 production and like getting that the arrangement overall. 468 00:37:22,755 --> 00:37:31,040 And then there's the more like analytical objective side of of people that are generally better at mastering, especially, but also mixing. 469 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:39,626 Even leaning more into the editing standpoint as well And so there's basically two parts that you have to if you're doing everything yourself as like a bedroom producer you have 470 00:37:39,626 --> 00:37:52,334 to master some aspect of both of those which is the you creative side but yet also this analytic more analytical side and I in my experience people tend to very much lean one way 471 00:37:52,334 --> 00:37:59,949 or the other right and so I have a student right now for example and he's very very much the creative like he's all focused on like okay, know what is like tonality that this is 472 00:37:59,949 --> 00:38:01,014 chord bring to the 473 00:38:01,014 --> 00:38:02,075 things like that. 474 00:38:02,205 --> 00:38:08,440 and then, but when he's like mixing, he's like trying to approach it from the same mindset and it really holds him back. 475 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,063 And he tries to, again, like we were talking about making massive moves in the mix. 476 00:38:12,063 --> 00:38:20,829 And then it ends up just harming his tracks overall and really ruining what was great about the song and versus just like letting it breathe a little bit, making smaller moves 477 00:38:20,829 --> 00:38:22,901 and just letting it kind of go through the process. 478 00:38:22,901 --> 00:38:25,473 And then it's going to end up far better. 479 00:38:25,493 --> 00:38:30,597 The fewer moves we actually do to the track and actually going to retain that kind of creativity. 480 00:38:30,597 --> 00:38:34,195 initial spark that we actually had to begin with. 481 00:38:34,980 --> 00:38:37,860 Yeah, that's a good thing to know about yourself. 482 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:50,140 I'm definitely on the more creative fun side, which is why my turn it up until I notice it and then drop it is sort of like a, you know, self-awareness thing that I know I want to 483 00:38:50,140 --> 00:38:54,720 hear that like weird effect, but I want to hear it a little too much. 484 00:38:54,720 --> 00:39:01,776 I'm going to let me just chill on it a little so that we have something that's a little more acceptable. 485 00:39:01,813 --> 00:39:04,005 Yeah, I mean, think that just comes with experience, though, right? 486 00:39:04,005 --> 00:39:12,951 It's like, how long did it take you to figure out, like, you were over overdoing stuff before you started to notice that and then, you know, drag it back? 487 00:39:13,147 --> 00:39:14,488 Yeah, a long time. 488 00:39:14,488 --> 00:39:22,490 I was really surprised with how much, you know, like something like vocal effects, reverbs on vocals. 489 00:39:22,830 --> 00:39:27,992 I would think I had these like really cool sounds, but then people would tell me like, I can't understand what you're saying. 490 00:39:28,352 --> 00:39:33,094 It's like, yeah, that's, I guess that's part of it, huh? 491 00:39:33,252 --> 00:39:44,017 You have really good trick for you you want a lot of effects on your vocal, but you don't, you still want your vocal upfront, is I, I'm a huge fan of slapback delays, which are kind 492 00:39:44,017 --> 00:39:45,667 of like a weird, right? 493 00:39:45,667 --> 00:39:48,689 Most people don't think about slapback delays very much, but I'm a huge fan. 494 00:39:48,689 --> 00:39:53,501 The reason is because you can delay your effects using slapback delays. 495 00:39:53,501 --> 00:40:02,945 So what I'll do almost a hundred percent in all my mixes is I'll have my vocal and then I'll add a slapback delay and then I'll, I'll change the left and right channel a little 496 00:40:02,945 --> 00:40:03,175 bit. 497 00:40:03,175 --> 00:40:10,035 So for example, I'll have the right delay be 120 milliseconds and then the left delay maybe 90 milliseconds, right? 498 00:40:10,035 --> 00:40:14,735 So it creates this stereo image of the vocal, but it's right after the main vocal. 499 00:40:14,735 --> 00:40:15,615 So. 500 00:40:15,757 --> 00:40:22,980 Just for context, most humans can't really tell a difference with anything less than about 50 milliseconds. 501 00:40:22,980 --> 00:40:25,322 And so you need to get kind of over that hump. 502 00:40:25,322 --> 00:40:33,305 And then you can create, create enough distance that there's a distinct like echo rather than just, it sounds like reverb or almost something like that. 503 00:40:33,685 --> 00:40:39,988 And so, but once you have that set into place, then you can actually process that separately. 504 00:40:39,988 --> 00:40:45,646 So oftentimes I'll just like make it thicker, a little bit darker, you know, adds me cue and then put your effects on that though. 505 00:40:45,646 --> 00:40:55,193 you can actually add a ton of reverb if you want to that effect and it's separate enough from the main vocal that your main vocal is going to sit nice up front and personal, but 506 00:40:55,193 --> 00:40:58,876 yet still have this like really nice like wet background. 507 00:40:58,876 --> 00:41:08,003 And especially if you're cognizant of creating that depth of just like, you know, making it darker with EQ, making it quiet enough that it actually sits back in the mix as well 508 00:41:08,003 --> 00:41:15,689 as, you know, making it thicker with maybe some saturation distortion or compression using that thickness style compression that we were talking about earlier. 509 00:41:15,689 --> 00:41:24,838 then you can really make that effect push back in the mix, but it can still be really, really present and really, really wet and still add that texture that you're looking for, 510 00:41:24,838 --> 00:41:27,340 but still keep your vocal nice up front and personal. 511 00:41:27,340 --> 00:41:30,213 So maybe you can try that if you want. 512 00:41:30,213 --> 00:41:31,122 I like that idea. 513 00:41:31,122 --> 00:41:32,914 I I love a slap back. 514 00:41:32,914 --> 00:41:39,878 It reminds me of like Elvis or, you know, early recordings where they had a lot of that going on. 515 00:41:40,619 --> 00:41:46,282 but I never really thought to treat it, you know, as a separate thing and then put all the fun on there. 516 00:41:46,282 --> 00:41:47,952 And that's a great idea. 517 00:41:49,684 --> 00:41:54,046 sometimes what I'll do is like some side chain compression on the effects. 518 00:41:54,046 --> 00:41:58,168 So it kind of ducks it when I'm, the words are actually happening. 519 00:41:58,204 --> 00:42:02,185 And then as soon as they go away, kind of fix back up. 520 00:42:02,285 --> 00:42:04,706 And that can work well too. 521 00:42:05,066 --> 00:42:06,197 But I like this idea. 522 00:42:06,197 --> 00:42:11,238 I'm going to play around with the, yeah, just fool around with the slap back. 523 00:42:11,238 --> 00:42:14,809 And like you said, you've got enough space so that you hear it. 524 00:42:14,809 --> 00:42:21,241 And then by coloring it, dulling it out a little bit, set it back a bit. 525 00:42:21,241 --> 00:42:22,492 That's cool. 526 00:42:22,492 --> 00:42:23,646 It's a fun thing I got to try. 527 00:42:23,646 --> 00:42:33,511 main, yeah, the main reason why it works is that human, like in natural spaces that we're used to being in, like, you know, a church or a room or whatever, like that natural, 528 00:42:33,511 --> 00:42:34,141 predelay. 529 00:42:34,141 --> 00:42:42,845 the difference between the direct sound and the actual like first inklings of reverb, the biggest room that we're used to hearing is probably about 30 milliseconds. 530 00:42:42,845 --> 00:42:51,899 And so if we go beyond that and no longer sounds like reverb attached to that main element, it's just its own type of like entity back in the background as well. 531 00:42:51,899 --> 00:42:52,619 So although. 532 00:42:52,619 --> 00:42:57,642 It's funny that you mentioned sidechain compression because I really don't like sidechain compression. 533 00:43:00,124 --> 00:43:09,380 One of my students, he's an EDM producer and he makes fun of me all the time from my hatred of sidechain compression because the reason why I don't like it, granted the use 534 00:43:09,380 --> 00:43:19,177 case that you're talking about, perfectly legitimate, totally fine, I would argue though that maybe you need to revisit your EQ of your reverb because that's what's actually going 535 00:43:19,177 --> 00:43:22,569 to create the separation and the preventing. 536 00:43:22,569 --> 00:43:25,811 of that masking the main vocal while still being very present in the mix. 537 00:43:25,811 --> 00:43:35,838 And so I would encourage you to look at the overall sonic balance that you have in your mix, so all the frequencies, like look to see where it's weak and then put your reverb in 538 00:43:35,838 --> 00:43:45,875 that section because that means that there's room enough in the mix for that sonic character to exist as well as you're likely not going to be covering up your main vocal if 539 00:43:45,875 --> 00:43:47,756 that's what you're adding your reverb to. 540 00:43:47,756 --> 00:43:52,444 So I think that a lot can be done before we reach for sidechain. 541 00:43:52,444 --> 00:44:02,712 sidechain should be like a last resort and it's more of a stylistic choice rather than a utilitarian move which is why what I find a lot of people doing is you know or the the 542 00:44:02,712 --> 00:44:11,178 other example is you're kicking your bass right I want to create some separation between my kick and my bass and so I'm just gonna throw a sidechain compressor on my bass link it 543 00:44:11,178 --> 00:44:21,436 to the kick and then my bass is gonna be out of the way every single time my bass or my kick comes in which I think there's better ways to do that through especially EQ and just 544 00:44:21,436 --> 00:44:22,337 separating those 545 00:44:22,337 --> 00:44:23,399 Thanks. 546 00:44:23,399 --> 00:44:31,583 entirely frequency wise so that we're not needing to resort to this other thing that's going to impact like the actual style of the song. 547 00:44:31,583 --> 00:44:38,356 Again, if that's your goal, so like use it as a stylistic thing, then by all means, like absolutely have at it. 548 00:44:38,356 --> 00:44:46,210 But it's just from, I find people overuse it in a utilitarian standpoint, which I just like, again, it's like one of my soap boxes. 549 00:44:46,210 --> 00:44:53,323 very, very opposed to it because I just feel like people aren't utilizing the tools EQ compression that they actually have to be able to create that 550 00:44:53,323 --> 00:44:54,682 separation first. 551 00:44:55,584 --> 00:44:56,505 Yeah, it makes sense. 552 00:44:56,505 --> 00:45:01,409 It's like kind of a, you get like your cake and eat it too almost. 553 00:45:01,409 --> 00:45:03,070 It's what you're trying to do. 554 00:45:04,111 --> 00:45:07,914 I mean, I've, I've used it for those reasons. 555 00:45:07,914 --> 00:45:10,036 Sometimes there's like a rhythmic thing that happens. 556 00:45:10,036 --> 00:45:11,057 That's kind of interesting. 557 00:45:11,057 --> 00:45:14,780 I think that's a big part of a lot of EDM. 558 00:45:14,780 --> 00:45:24,798 They're, they're going for that kind of like, a kind of like a interaction, but I've taken some of that into like guitars too, where 559 00:45:25,764 --> 00:45:33,591 So I can have like my rhythm guitar still living in those frequencies, but then the lead kind of pushes it down a little. 560 00:45:34,152 --> 00:45:36,914 That sounds like the kind of thing you're objecting to. 561 00:45:38,754 --> 00:45:40,898 Yeah, yeah, I would say. 562 00:45:41,102 --> 00:45:44,282 Mostly, I think there's also like a lot you can do is just automation too. 563 00:45:44,282 --> 00:45:46,772 Cause if you have, you know, like this whole section, right. 564 00:45:46,772 --> 00:45:52,042 And like, instead of reaching for that side chain compressor, you could just automate the volume down a decibel or so. 565 00:45:52,042 --> 00:45:54,722 And it's going to achieve the same end result. 566 00:45:54,722 --> 00:46:06,282 I just think it's risky to use compression because you're inherently adding more harmonics to that signal while you're compressing it, as well as like you have an unknown like input 567 00:46:06,282 --> 00:46:07,302 to that. 568 00:46:07,302 --> 00:46:11,555 Granted, if your vocal is very consistent in using that as an example, like that would 569 00:46:11,655 --> 00:46:20,235 be less risky or a kick drum is especially not very risky because you know exactly what the input of that coming in is and so you know exactly how much gain reduction you're 570 00:46:20,235 --> 00:46:21,055 going to get. 571 00:46:21,055 --> 00:46:30,515 But in other scenarios if you're linking it to like a lead guitar like they can have some like low-end harmonics that all of sudden are really super loud and then it's going to 572 00:46:30,515 --> 00:46:32,855 duck your rhythms even more than you wanted to. 573 00:46:32,855 --> 00:46:35,095 And so in my mind it's just risky to do that. 574 00:46:35,095 --> 00:46:40,975 It's not necessarily wrong like inherently but it's just I don't think the risks 575 00:46:40,975 --> 00:46:44,247 outweigh the benefit that you get from those types of moves. 576 00:46:44,421 --> 00:46:45,141 Yeah. 577 00:46:45,141 --> 00:46:53,445 Well, it's a good point too, that, some of those frequencies that we're not really hearing, we hear them, but like, they're not the main things you focus on. 578 00:46:53,445 --> 00:46:56,416 They do add up and they affect the way the compressor reacts. 579 00:46:56,416 --> 00:47:05,709 Like you said, like some, might be playing really high lead part, every once in a while I might do like a, you know, a muted string or something. 580 00:47:05,889 --> 00:47:13,052 And that's like lots of low end that's gonna, you know, do, do some damage to that guitar. 581 00:47:13,167 --> 00:47:13,527 Yeah. 582 00:47:13,527 --> 00:47:17,059 Or I mean, even if you're just like, you know, sliding up into like a part, right? 583 00:47:17,059 --> 00:47:21,521 Cause that you're starting low, like that those are going to be way louder, especially on that bottom end. 584 00:47:21,521 --> 00:47:28,874 And that's, know, even looking at a mix overall, generally you're, you're thinking about that of the low end takes up so much room in the mix. 585 00:47:28,874 --> 00:47:39,378 It's, it's honestly very, very loud in the modern mixing context, because even though it's an equal power with, or should be an equal power with, you know, say the mid range or 586 00:47:39,378 --> 00:47:43,170 upper mids, there's just less room because these waves are so much bigger down. 587 00:47:43,170 --> 00:47:53,137 low end and so if you have you know a bass part right that's really low it's probably gonna take up more space in your mix the lower it goes because inherently I always like to 588 00:47:53,137 --> 00:48:02,273 think of like a mix that's shaped like a V so you in the bottom end of the V you have like all of your low end and there's just like no space down here because you can have like 589 00:48:02,273 --> 00:48:13,080 maybe your kick in your bass and maybe 808 or you know something else down there but it's very very limited and versus in the top end I can add as much elements at the you nine 590 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:24,077 to 10k region as I want because there's just so much space up there the difference between you know 10 kilohertz and 10.1 kilohertz is still 100 Hertz which is more space than we 591 00:48:24,077 --> 00:48:27,120 have in the entire sub region of the mix. 592 00:48:27,431 --> 00:48:28,291 Hmm. 593 00:48:28,392 --> 00:48:29,493 Yeah, that's a good point. 594 00:48:29,493 --> 00:48:30,674 I like that visual too. 595 00:48:30,674 --> 00:48:34,897 It's like, I think about that kind of stuff a lot. 596 00:48:36,159 --> 00:48:47,348 My visual is more like a canvas on a painting and almost just like you're looking at your frequency spectrum and you want everything to be like thick and bassy, but that's like 597 00:48:47,348 --> 00:48:54,253 painting your house in the left side and your tree on the left side and everything's covering that area of the 598 00:48:55,302 --> 00:48:57,084 you know, the frequency range. 599 00:48:57,084 --> 00:48:59,287 you can, gotta move things around. 600 00:48:59,287 --> 00:49:07,803 Do you do a lot of cutting of low end on things that aren't those types of, you know, bass instruments? 601 00:49:07,803 --> 00:49:17,497 that's yeah, that would be the natural conclusion right is You should cut out all the low end and all the other elements I don't most of the time unless there's a very obvious 602 00:49:17,497 --> 00:49:22,879 issue like say I have a rhythm guitar or something that just has way too much, know 60 Hertz in it. 603 00:49:22,879 --> 00:49:25,680 Yeah, I'm probably gonna cut that out, but I 604 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:32,020 I try not to, and then I only do it if there's an actual issue that is running into the mix. 605 00:49:32,100 --> 00:49:41,580 Because I find that most of the time when we start high passing everything and just start cutting out all the low end, all of our elements start to sound really weak and thin, and 606 00:49:41,580 --> 00:49:48,320 especially using guitars as the example, because that's a very common one, like let's high pass it all the way up to 100 hertz. 607 00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:55,634 But there's a lot of energy at like that 90, 80 hertz range that isn't very loud in a guitar, but does give 608 00:49:55,634 --> 00:50:00,694 some of that like just chunky meaty character that we still want to have in the mix. 609 00:50:00,974 --> 00:50:06,614 And vocals are another example where I see a lot of people just high passing those all the way to 200 hertz or something. 610 00:50:06,614 --> 00:50:17,994 There's a lot of energy in a vocal around 100 hertz or 150 hertz that if our vocal sounds really thin and weak, we can actually boost there sometimes and it'll just fill out the 611 00:50:17,994 --> 00:50:20,274 vocal and sound really nice and rich. 612 00:50:20,274 --> 00:50:25,554 And so if we're just high passing all of those, especially automatically, then we're sacrificing a lot of the 613 00:50:25,554 --> 00:50:34,147 tone that would otherwise be present in the mix, even very quiet, it's still there and it still adds up over time. 614 00:50:35,932 --> 00:50:46,411 I guess that's like you said, automatically that's like kind of the whole theme here is like do things with purpose, not just because you heard you're supposed to cut all the low 615 00:50:46,411 --> 00:50:47,562 frequencies. 616 00:50:47,562 --> 00:50:53,266 Are you supposed to compress everything or you have to understand why you're doing it. 617 00:50:53,266 --> 00:50:58,210 It's definitely that comes up in the book all the time, which is great. 618 00:50:58,210 --> 00:50:59,251 Like it's. 619 00:50:59,351 --> 00:51:05,656 It's like, here's a lot of things you can do a lot of ways you can get here, but think about why, like why are we doing this? 620 00:51:06,728 --> 00:51:10,292 That's, I guess so many things, right? 621 00:51:10,292 --> 00:51:11,614 Intentionality. 622 00:51:11,614 --> 00:51:18,102 And I mean, sometimes the best thing you do with your mix is just adjust the volume faders, I find. 623 00:51:18,102 --> 00:51:20,635 That's the number one tool, really, right? 624 00:51:20,635 --> 00:51:23,508 Like the volume. 625 00:51:23,888 --> 00:51:24,959 Yeah, absolutely. 626 00:51:24,959 --> 00:51:30,254 I always like to bring that, because I talk about volume all the time, because it is the most critical. 627 00:51:30,254 --> 00:51:33,618 It's the biggest lever you absolutely have in your mix to be able to get. 628 00:51:33,618 --> 00:51:41,515 Yeah, yeah, just make your text bigger and it'll automatically make them bigger there. 629 00:51:42,136 --> 00:51:46,430 Yeah, so but I love the analogy of John Wooden. 630 00:51:46,430 --> 00:51:48,502 you do you follow basketball at all? 631 00:51:49,814 --> 00:51:50,638 not a lot. 632 00:51:50,638 --> 00:51:52,271 Not enough to know who that is, no. 633 00:51:52,271 --> 00:51:59,157 okay, so John Wooden, I'm not really into basketball, but I love John Wooden because he's a cool character in the world of basketball. 634 00:51:59,157 --> 00:52:11,048 So he was a coach at UCLA during the 60s and 70s, and he was the head coach for 12 years, and of the 12 years he was the head coach, he won the NCAA title 10 times. 635 00:52:11,048 --> 00:52:13,794 So he's the most, you know, the... 636 00:52:13,794 --> 00:52:21,579 like objectively the best basketball coach of the 20th century in the US or at the collegiate level at least. 637 00:52:21,659 --> 00:52:33,958 And what's fascinating about this story is that not only like his levels of success and achievement that he was able to get but the way he started each season was he would bring 638 00:52:33,958 --> 00:52:42,394 all his players into the court and they would know it'd be warming up and shooting hoops whatever and then he would come out and he would have them all sit down 639 00:52:42,814 --> 00:52:49,419 and then he would sit down in the middle of the court, he'd take off his shoes, and he would start to demonstrate how you put on your shoes. 640 00:52:49,419 --> 00:53:02,451 Because he knew that how you did the smallest things, and how you did that first step of the whole mindset of the game of basketball, was how you were going to do everything else. 641 00:53:02,451 --> 00:53:13,381 And so while most freshmen going into that team, knowing the record that they had, probably thought like, we're going to learn some really advanced tips and tricks, or like, 642 00:53:13,381 --> 00:53:15,532 that's what we expect the... 643 00:53:16,383 --> 00:53:26,807 producers of the world to tell us when we hire them, know, spend an hour with CLA or whoever and you're gonna think, okay, they're gonna tell me something super like wacky, 644 00:53:26,807 --> 00:53:29,118 like some industry secret that I don't know. 645 00:53:29,118 --> 00:53:31,098 And most of them are focused on these basics. 646 00:53:31,098 --> 00:53:32,149 They're focused on volume. 647 00:53:32,149 --> 00:53:35,760 They're focused on just basic EQ compression. 648 00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,641 like that was the moment for me as well of... 649 00:53:38,641 --> 00:53:45,773 I talked to hundreds of mixing engineers, mastering engineers when I was first getting started and like wanted to do this as a freelance gig. 650 00:53:45,773 --> 00:53:48,004 And so I was just talking to everybody I possibly could. 651 00:53:48,004 --> 00:53:55,185 And that was the theme that came up again and again and again is like, well, like all these tips and tricks, all these advanced things that I have learned on YouTube don't 652 00:53:55,185 --> 00:53:56,536 actually matter. 653 00:53:56,696 --> 00:53:58,196 but it's not nearly as sexy to say that. 654 00:53:58,196 --> 00:54:00,987 So they probably don't perform as well, on YouTube. 655 00:54:00,987 --> 00:54:08,571 So, but you know, using the John Wooden, like keep that in mind of like these basic things do matter. 656 00:54:08,571 --> 00:54:10,823 and they end up being the best of the best. 657 00:54:10,823 --> 00:54:19,429 Like one quote that I love is, the advanced is just the basics taught at an advanced level. 658 00:54:19,429 --> 00:54:21,375 Like that's really all it is. 659 00:54:21,375 --> 00:54:30,257 It's just the basics done really well is what creates advanced levels of anything, like whether that's golf or basketball or mixing and mastering. 660 00:54:30,392 --> 00:54:32,643 Yeah, those fundamentals. 661 00:54:34,864 --> 00:54:48,809 Well, Tyson, I know it's a time to go, so I don't want to keep you too long, but we should shout out your site, objectivemixing.com and the book, The Objective Mix, which is a great 662 00:54:48,809 --> 00:54:49,259 read. 663 00:54:49,259 --> 00:54:50,319 It's practical. 664 00:54:50,319 --> 00:54:54,071 It's an easy language to understand. 665 00:54:54,071 --> 00:54:59,333 Still gets kind of technical, but not any more than necessary, I'd say. 666 00:55:01,063 --> 00:55:02,131 Thanks, Brian. 667 00:55:02,242 --> 00:55:03,816 else you'd to send people? 668 00:55:03,816 --> 00:55:04,787 Yeah, absolutely. 669 00:55:04,787 --> 00:55:06,957 First of all, thanks for having me on the podcast. 670 00:55:06,957 --> 00:55:07,928 It was super fun. 671 00:55:07,928 --> 00:55:10,109 I loved chatting with you. 672 00:55:10,549 --> 00:55:14,611 And then, yeah, I created a nice freebie for all of your listeners. 673 00:55:14,611 --> 00:55:19,833 And so you can get that at objectivemixing.com slash funk. 674 00:55:19,994 --> 00:55:21,444 I will leave two things for you. 675 00:55:21,444 --> 00:55:25,156 So the first thing is the cheat sheet for the compression stuff. 676 00:55:25,156 --> 00:55:33,020 So if you're trying to rewatch this episode and try to like learn how all those compressor compression styles work, just, just download the guide instead. 677 00:55:33,020 --> 00:55:34,020 It's at 678 00:55:34,020 --> 00:55:38,161 theobjectivemix.com slash funk, F-U-N-K. 679 00:55:38,161 --> 00:55:40,862 And then also I'm going to include a free course in there. 680 00:55:40,862 --> 00:55:47,724 It's just the overview of the five objective standards that you need to be hitting in your mix for it to be industry standard. 681 00:55:47,724 --> 00:55:53,406 And that's just, again, all free just for watching this episode and being a part of Brian's community. 682 00:55:54,042 --> 00:55:55,083 That's so nice of you. 683 00:55:55,083 --> 00:55:55,664 Thank you. 684 00:55:55,664 --> 00:55:57,585 I can't wait to check it out myself. 685 00:55:58,948 --> 00:55:59,689 Awesome. 686 00:55:59,689 --> 00:56:00,720 So great. 687 00:56:00,720 --> 00:56:03,553 Yeah, everybody check it out, the objective mix. 688 00:56:03,734 --> 00:56:05,715 And thanks for listening. 689 00:56:05,796 --> 00:56:06,987 Have a great day. 690 00:56:08,665 --> 00:56:09,666 Cool man.