Have you ever wondered why the U.S.
hasn't really been brought up in the
conversation of deep sea mining?
That's because it's never really been a
topic, probably because they can't really
deep sea mined in international waters
because they are not part of the United
Nations Convention of the Law of the Sea,
which plays a big role in shaping,
you know, the deep sea
mining and the fact that the U.S.
is not part of it has played another deep
role, a huge role in the country
and not being able to approach deep sea
mining both legally and politically.
So here is today we're on the podcast.
We're going to be
talking about why the U.S.
hasn't got into it and latest
thing of the metals company,
which is a Canadian company,
trying to work with the U.S.
and Donald Trump to actually start mining
within the deep sea,
within their natural borders, within the
United States exclusive economic zone.
We're going to be talking about that on
today's episode of the How to Protect
the Ocean podcast, a scary topic. The U.S. is not a signatory of the United
Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea,
which is known as UNCLOSE.
I'm going to call it that
because it's easy to do.
I know it's jargon, but it has a domestic
laws, but also has
domestic laws governing deep sea
money. So the big question here, once it
came out, people are freaking out.
Look, Donald Trump is president.
You never know what's going to happen.
He tends to like extractive processes.
Deep sea mining is an extractive process
that could be a little lucrative in terms
of the money it brings not only to the
companies that work with the countries
that would like this to
happen, but also, you know,
the country itself, they want to make
money and they want to be able to use
their natural resources to make money.
So I can't blame them.
Then somebody like Donald Trump, who is
into making money and is not
having a great three months,
depending on how you look at it.
But the lately the stock market has
crashed from his
tariffs, his reciprocal tariffs,
you know, taxing islands that are not
inhabited, only inhabited by
seals and penguins and stuff.
And so it's not going great.
Now, this is not going to make him
popular for a lot of people,
which he doesn't care about.
But there are some really interesting
matters at hand of can the US actually
use, you know, the metals
company to be their exploratory
deep sea mining company?
And that's really what it comes down to.
There was a great article written by Dr.
Andrew Thaler, who's been on the podcast
a number of times to talk about deep sea
mining and the deep sea.
He's a deep sea ecologist.
It's involved in a lot of projects.
The last time we actually had him on, he
was talking about his foray
into D and D for forest ecology,
Dungeons and Dragons with no community
members for forest ecology.
So he talks a lot of a lot about things.
But his main focus right now is deep sea
mining and has been over the last his
whole career, really,
because he did his PhD in it.
And it's been the editor of the largest
deep sea mining magazine in the world.
And he just keeps writing on Southern
Fried Science dot com, which was his blog
that he started with a number of
different colleagues back in the day.
And it's just it's an amazing article.
I highly recommend that you take a look
at it because we're going to be talking
about it all day today on this episode
all day during this episode, which
doesn't take all day to record.
I trust you. Trust me.
But we're going to be talking about it.
And so go over to
Southern Fried Science dot com.
Check out the article.
I'll put the link in the show notes.
But he talks about relevant US
legislation that matters when we're
looking at deep sea mining in the US.
So it's really can this
company in particular do this?
They're probably the best place company
because they have so much money invested.
They have the technology.
They know the technology.
They've been working
with the ISA for a while.
Now, the reason why they're going to the
US is because the ISA has recently
changed secretary generals.
The secretary general now is
I'm trying to miss Leticia.
And if I can remember her
last name, I don't know.
I still have the article up here.
Sorry, Miss Leticia race de Cavallo, who
was who was basically elected, started
her secretary general
position on January 1st, 2025.
She is also an oceanographer.
She is the fourth
secretary general of the ISA.
And she was elected in August and it was
a bit of a surprise because the ISA
secretary general that that was there
before he was known to be a little bit
more biased towards the companies.
I don't know if that's true or not, but
some of his policies that came out, some
of his focuses have come out
that said, hey, you know what?
Like, yeah, we're gonna we're gonna mine.
Eventually, it's just a matter of doing
the regulations and figuring this out.
Well, a lot of other people are like,
let's pause, even killing many countries.
Let's just pause this and let's figure
out whether this is
going to be safe or not.
So the election spark or the election
came up because Miss
Leticia was like, you know what?
I think I can do a better job.
I can be more partial.
I'm an oceanographer.
I understand what's happening in the deep
sea of better understanding than most.
And so she gets elected all of a sudden.
Great for the environment.
At least we have somebody who has a
background in oceanography.
We've been asking for people in these
positions to have that type of background
and not just a business background.
So I say it was like we
need to hold off on the money.
We need to do more research and we need
to discuss this a little bit more.
TMC was like the Meadows Company.
The Canadian company was like, no, no, I
don't want to do that.
I want to I want to mine.
I'm sick of this.
And I know I'm not going to get the
answers that I need in
this like in this forum.
So I'm going to go to a democracy country
that has a new president who's very into
extractive processes.
And I'm going to go ahead and talk to
Donald Trump and say, hey, Donald.
Hey, Mr. President.
Let's how about we start extracting
polymetallic nodules off this off the sea
floor in jurisdiction like in a
jurisdiction for the U.S.
And so apparently, according to studies
or according to reports, the
administration surprise surprise is
interested in that kind of stuff.
And so we're going to discuss some of the
relevant legislation, U.S. legislation
that matters in this in this situation.
So the first thing I identified by Dr.
Andrew Taylor was the Deep Sea Hard
Mineral Resources Act, which regulates
exploit exploration,
exploitation of deep sea minerals.
The other one is the outer criminal
criminal outer
continental shelf Lands Act.
It extends U.S. laws to the seabed and
subsoil of the outer continental shelf.
And then there's the Jones Act, which is
also known as the Marine as the Merchant
Marine Act of 1920, which mandates the
cargo transporter between U.S.
points must be on vessels built owned and
operated by U.S. citizens.
So here is the thing for the compliance
to meet for the TMC
to meet the compliance.
It really comes down to the Jones Act,
the hidden gem, which is a vessel owned
by all seas, which is a
Dutch company works for TMC.
The MV Coco, which is owned by Magellan
based in Guernsey, which I believe is
foreign, I think it's in
France, they are not U.S. owned.
Neither vessel complies with the Jones
Act requirements, posing a significant
operational challenge for TMC.
So essentially what happens is for this
to be in compliance with the Jones Act,
the ship that's carrying the cargo from
point where they extract it.
So point A to point B back to
a U.S. port has to be American.
Right now, the TMC does not have an
American ship. Does that mean they can't
get an American ship?
I'm sure they can find it. I'm sure they
can figure it out. But at this point,
they may not be able to use that.
The other thing too is because the Outer
Continental Shelf Lands Act extends
jurisdiction to certain seabeds, certain
seabed areas potentially like outside of
the U.S. jurisdiction.
This classifies TMC's mining sites as
U.S. points once
operations are commenced.
So essentially the loophole of saying,
hey, you know what, even though this is
beyond your
jurisdiction, this is our land.
So going into like the Gulf of Mexico and
certain places in Mexico
are actually available.
Well, not so because it's still be
considered American jurisdiction
according to the Outer
Continental Shelf Lands Act.
So that means they still have to the
Jones Act still applies.
They still have to use
American vessels again.
Can they get American vessels?
I'm sure they can find
something they don't.
They're not. I don't know what their
contracts are like with
the other two vessels.
But, you know, I'm sure they can figure
it out if they really, really want to, if
they're motivated,
which seems like they are.
So it's it's pretty interesting.
The U.S. Mexico Western
Gap Treaty extended over U.S.
jurisdiction over a specific high seas
areas, indicating that U.S. can assert
jurisdiction over seabed resources,
resources beyond their jurisdiction in
the exclusive economic zone.
So that's something of interest.
And if the U.S. claims jurisdiction over
high seas resources, the Jones Act does
apply, as I mentioned before.
So to comply with the Jones Act, TMC
would have to use vessels that meet the
stringent requirements,
which the current fleet does not.
And this regulatory hurdle could
complicate TMC strategies to operate
under U.S. jurisdiction and may require
significant adjustments
to their operational plans.
And to be honest, if the U.S. gets the
idea of starting to, you know, mine for
these polymetallic nodules, what's in it
for them to say, hey, we're
going to hire a Canadian company?
Look, let's be honest, they're not.
Canada is not in favor
with the U.S. right now.
Also, they they want it for themselves.
There's nothing stopping them from
saying, hey, you know what?
We're actually just going to get a
company ourselves or do it by government
and we'll figure it ourselves and we'll
take the time and we'll get the relevant
information, the relevant technology, the
relevant ships and we'll do it our way.
You know, mind you, they
could also change their laws.
So there's a bit of a bit of a scary
thing going on here is really what it
comes down to is like, is the U.S. really
going to take this seriously?
I haven't heard anything else in the news
since this has happened, but this was
very worrisome a week ago
when this first came out.
And I'm glad Andrew
started talking about it.
I'm also glad that Chris
Corbero started talking about it.
She is on TikTok and she
has a great post on it.
I'll link to it in the show notes on, you
know, how you can act
and what you can do.
But I think it's it's super important to
be able to talk about this and to be able
to say, hey, you know what?
This is something that
we need to talk about.
This is something that we need to assess
whether it is a threat or not.
This is something that we can't just let
it go by, you know, because there's been
a lot of work that's
been pushed onto the I.S.A.
in terms of non-government organizations,
scientists, governments who have been
put, who have been put a lot of research,
a lot of money and a lot of time and to
make sure that we do this properly.
And although some have been rushed into
it and others have not, it seems to have
been pretty much gone in a way that we,
as Andrew says, we have this
wonderful opportunity to do this right.
If we are going to extract minerals, we
can do the studies to make sure that
nothing happens or to do it in a way that
we have the least amount of impact on it.
Am I for deep sea mining?
Absolutely not.
Do I think it's going
to happen in my lifetime?
Probably.
Is it going to affect
the the the EV community?
Because that's why people want a deep sea
minus for electric vehicles to have the
metals to make the batteries, which are
currently mined in many places.
But mostly in the Republic of Congo,
which there are a lot of human rights
violations that are
associated with that project.
And so being able to have it where human
rights are not affected and be able to
have it where you can just extract it as
you please, that would be helpful if this
extraction is going to happen.
Now, with the the developments, the huge
developments and advancements in the
technology to create batteries where the
metals are used for electric vehicles,
some of them are using
these metals anymore.
And they're they're much more sustainable
in the way we dispose of them and the way
we use them, the way we build them.
So the development is getting fast.
The technology is
increasing at a rapid rate.
Do we need this in the long run?
Hopefully not.
Is this going to happen in my lifetime?
I do think so, but
I'm not happy about it.
But if we're going to
do it, let's do it right.
And let's make sure that we are on the
proactive side instead of the reactive
side, which we're usually on the end of
the reactive side when we're extracting
marine resources or any type of thing.
So, you know, if you want to do it, you can do it and you can do it.
But I do want to make sure that we're doing it. I mean, I think it's a pretty good idea to do it, but I really like how you build on it. So, you know, I'm going to do a little bit of a quick demo, which is a little bit of a quick demo because it's going to be a really nice video about how we're going to create these different types of resources around the sea
or around nature in general.
So this is what we're talking about today
and I'd love to hear
your opinion on that.
Hit me up on Instagram at
how to protect the ocean.
I've got a different episode of the on
YouTube if you want to
check that out as well.
There's not a lot of resources.
I just said it in a different
way because I'm doing it more.
It's going to be a little shorter.
But I want to create
something different for the audio.
Just a little bit more raw, a little bit
more old school for me
in terms of the way I do
it.
It kind of excites me a little bit.
YouTube's great.
I love doing the video, but it's going to
be done a little differently.
So we're going to do
it in different ways.
So you can listen to it on video or on
your way to work through
audio or on your dog walks
or in your nature walks or however you
want to do it
exercising, however you want to
do it.
Just listen to me, please.
I'm just kidding.
I love that you listen to me and I love
the feedback even more.
So hit me up on Instagram at how to
protect the ocean or hit me up on the
website speakupforblue.com.
That's speakupforblue.com.
Check it out.
There's you can leave me a voice memo.
You can go to our contact page and you
can just write me an email.
I answer that personally.
I'd love to hear your
thoughts on all of this.
So thank you so much for joining me on
today's episode of the How
to Protect the Ocean podcast.
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the True
North strong and free.
Have a great day.
We'll talk to you next
time and happy conservation.