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Andi: John in Pennsylvania doesn’t have bonds 
in his investment portfolio. Should he add them,  

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and if so, where? That’s today on Your 
Money, Your Wealth® podcast number 508. Plus,  

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Joe and Big Al spitball on retirement plans 
for James in Tierrasanta, California, who  

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has $4 million plus annuities, Esther in the San 
Francisco Bay Area, who has nearly $12M net worth,  

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and Tiger and Lioness, who wonder about 
a safe level of lifestyle creep. Also,  

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Charlie in Castlerock, Colorado has an exciting 
new question on how to balance collecting Social  

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Security with making withdrawals from 
his pre-tax retirement account for living  

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expenses. And a Worrywart Mom in Seattle asks 
whether her 27 year old daughter should focus  

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on paying off her student loans or saving 
for the future. To ask your money questions,  

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or to get a Retirement Spitball Analysis 
of your own, click the link in the episode  

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description to Ask Joe and Big Al Air. I’m 
Executive Producer Andi Last, and here are  

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the hosts of Your Money, Your Wealth®, Joe 
Anderson, CFP® and Big Al Clopine, CPA.

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Joe: John in PA goes, “Hello 
Joe, Al, Andi. Long time,  

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first time. I'm 61 years old and my wife 
is 58. We don't drink much. When we do,  

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there'll be some of PA's Yuengling 
beer.”  What's that called again?

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Andi: I believe it's Yuengling, but I think 
you did it pretty good on the first shot.

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Al: Yeah, me too.

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Joe: “My wife drives a 2024 Lexus 350 
Hybrid, and I'm still driving that 2020  

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Honda Odyssey. I have a question on bonds. 
We don't have any bonds in our portfolio.  

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Here's the breakdown of our investments. Joe 
and Al will be proud of our asset locations.  

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The assets are equally almost owned by my 
wife and I. $2,000,000 in 401(k)s. IRAs,  

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$500,000 in Roth and $200,000 in cash, 
$3,000,000 in brokerage accounts. None  

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of these accounts have bonds. We are retiring in 
2025 and 2026.  Or we are retiring in 2025 and  

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26. We spend $80,000 a year for our basic needs 
and we'll want to put another $50,000 to travel.  

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So we'll need to withdraw $150,000 a year.”  
Well, $80,000 and $50,000, is not 150,000.

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Al: Well, I think he's adding more for tax, maybe.

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Joe: Okay. “We will be in the accumulation 
phase and not sure where to add bond or  

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bond funds. Should we put it in the 
brokerage accounts? Or the tax-deferred  

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IRA accounts? Will also be doing Roth 
conversions starting in 2025.”  Okay.

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Andi: That's it. Yep.

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Al: That's it.

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Joe: All right. So he wants to know-

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Al: Yeah. Where do you put the bonds?

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Joe: Well, he's got $6,000,000, roughly. 
$5,500,000 of total liquid assets.

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Al: Yeah.

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Joe: And a hundred- let's say, well, he wants-

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Al: If he wants $150,000 into $5,700,000,  

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it works out to about 2.6% 
distribution rate. So that's good.

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Joe: $130,000.  He doesn't need bonds 
if he doesn't want them. Yeah. But.

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Al: Yeah, some people just don't like ‘em. But 
if it were me, I would probably favor getting  

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my distributions out of my taxable account, which 
wouldn't cause a lot of taxation. So I could do  

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more Roth conversions, which would mean I might 
want my bonds in the taxable account. In that  

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case, I would do Muni bonds. So they're tax-free. 
That's what I might do in this situation, I guess.

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Joe: So under the $5,700,000, let’s see-  
Here's an option.  Yeah, I like that Al,  

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I think I would do in the non-qualified 
account. So here's the allocation that  

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might make sense for John, is that he wants 
to spend $130,000. He says $150,000 so it  

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doesn't matter, but let's say you put that 
$150,000, you have 10 years of safe money.

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Al: Right.

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Joe: So that's $1,500,000 out of 
the $5,700,000. So what's that 20%,  

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25% in bonds? You're still heavily weighted 
in equity so you're still participating in  

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the growth? But let's say if the market tanks 
over the next 10 years, you still have that  

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safety valve that you can pull that for your 
income. And you know let your equities recover.

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Al: Yeah, and someone like this that has 
no bonds and probably has done well in  

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his portfolio. Maybe you just do 5 
years of, you know, $130,000 times-

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Joe: Because his burn rate's 2%, right?

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Al: Right. It's low.

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Joe: So you could be in all equities there. 
If you're burn- if your distribution rate was  

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a little bit higher then you probably want 
a lot more safety because-  But it sounds  

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like he doesn't. So, he's got a high tolerance 
for risk if he's never had bonds in his life.

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Al: Right. That's what I'm thinking.

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Joe: And he's 60-some-odd years of age.

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Al: Right.

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Joe: That’s probably why he's got $5,700,000.

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Al: Yeah. He's kind of rode things out.

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Joe: Correct. Yeah. Though his 
average rate of return over the  

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last several years has been probably pretty high.

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Al: Yeah.

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Joe: So, but, here’s the question I would ask him. 
If that, let's say, $5,500,000 goes to $3,000,000,  

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how does he feel? Right. Or, I mean, does he 
want that $5,500,000 to grow to $10,000,000?

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Al: Yeah, or another way, another question is,  

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what did you do during the Great Recession? Did 
you hold the course? Stay the course? And if so,  

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then you're probably a good candidate 
to keep going with equities. However,  

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it's a little different mentality when 
you're retired and you don't have the income.

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Joe: Right. And seeing your accounts drop  

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as you're pulling $150,000 
from the account, you might-

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Al: Doesn't feel so good.

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Joe: It doesn't. And you might do things that 
you may not want to do. So if you're doing  

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Roth conversions, you probably want to keep 
the safety in your overall taxable account.  

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And you might want to go Muni bonds, just to 
get the tax-free income from that to keep as  

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much income off the tax return as you possibly 
can. The other aspect of the non-qualified,  

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you would want to definitely keep in equity so 
that you can tax loss harvest and wash out any  

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capital gains on an annual basis. And then 
do Roth conversions probably to the top of  

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the 12% or 22% tax bracket and just pay the 
tax on the conversion. And you want to do  

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that for a few years until you get the right 
balance. Right. I think he's right on his way.

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Al: Yeah, me too. On the other hand, I'll just 
say, like, let's say he was 41. For example,  

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and he wanted bonds for a little less 
volatility. You'd probably put those in  

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the IRA and 401(k) because there you 
don't necessarily want your equities  

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in high in tax-deferred accounts. 
Cause you just pay more tax later.

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Joe: Right. Because all of that, if you get a 
10% return in your retirement account, well,  

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you have to pay ordinary income 
tax on the 10% return versus if  

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you get a 10 % return in the Roth, it's 
tax-free. If you get a 10% return in the,  

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you know, your brokerage account, 
it's at a capital gains rate.

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Al: But the reason why I like the taxable 
account is because he wants to do distribution.  

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So that's why I would probably put 
the bonds there and do Muni bonds.

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Joe: Right. Because if the market tanks, he's 
got all equities in his non-qualified account.  

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00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,480
Right. Then he's selling stocks 
to create the income at a loss.

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Al: Yeah. Right. Right.

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Joe: That doesn't make a lot of sense.

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Al: Correct.

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Joe: Okay. We got Tiger. NotWoods.

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Al: NotWoods. Okay.

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Joe: All right. Here we go. “Dear Joe, Big 
Al, Andi.” Just throw that in there for you.

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Andi: Well, thanks. Appreciate that.

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Joe: “Enjoy your Roth heavy content. 
I am a financial advisor and want a  

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second opinion and spitball on 
my current situation.”  Okay.

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Andi: You got advisors asking you for spitballs 
on their own situations. That's pretty good.

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00:07:25,300 --> 00:07:26,540
Al: I like it.

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Joe: “We are both 33 years old. I am a- I'm on 
a health kick and drink a choice of chocolate  

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protein shakes. My wife needs her morning 
coffee. We drive an 18- 2018 Ford Explorer  

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00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:49,320
and a 2024 Grand Highlander. My wife works 
part time and we can combine $240,000 due  

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to some great single stock returns. We have 
the following assets.”  Okay.  So what's he  

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00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:01,309
say? “My wife works part time and we 
have a combined income of $240,000.”

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00:08:01,309 --> 00:08:02,235
Al: That's what he says.

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00:08:02,235 --> 00:08:05,840
Joe: That's right in there. Okay. And 
then due to some single stock returns,  

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he's got a pretty nice portfolio at the age of-

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Al: I'll say he must have hit a home 
run on some, on a, one, a stock.

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Joe: “He's got $1,000,000 in a brokerage 
account after selling single stock,  

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paying taxes in April of 2025. He's got $1,000,000 
in pre-tax retirement accounts, $850,000 in a Roth  

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and $375,000 in crypto. Home value is $1,000,000. 
He's got a $360,000 mortgage at 2.875%.”  Wow.

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Al: If you're keeping track, 
that's about $3,200,000.

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Joe: At 33.

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Al: At 33. Amazing.

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Joe: Wow.

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Andi: I wonder, can he retire?

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Joe: I wonder why he said that.

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Al: Well, we'll see what his question is.

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Joe: “Additionally, all 4 of 
our parents are still living,  

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ages 65 to 71. But I expect to receive 
a combined inheritance of $5,000,000-“

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Andi: - plus-

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00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:04,240
Joe: “- 70% pre-tax between the two families. 
Our current plan is for my wife to retire when  

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our kids get out of daycare. That's in 
4 years. And me to retire when I reach  

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$2,800,000 in a taxable account, not including 
the bitcoin. Two questions. We spend $120,000  

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a year now after- We spend about $120,000 a year 
now after a retirement savings of around $40,000  

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a year. Can I let off the retirement 
savings to just get employer matches?  

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Put it in Roth 401(k) and increase our 
spending by $2000 a month and put the  

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extra in the taxable brokerage? Whatever you 
found is a safe level of lifestyle creep on  

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an annual basis.  Thank you for your time 
and laughter.” Tiger and Lioness. Lioness.

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Al: Lioness, but Tiger but not Tiger Woods.

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Joe: No.

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Al:  TigerNotWoods. Well, he wants to retire when 
he gets reaches $2,800,000 in taxable assets.

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Joe: So he's got right now $1,400,000?

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Al: Yeah, $1,400,000. So basically double what 
he's got right now roughly. Well actually says not  

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including crypto. So actually he's got $1,000,000. 
So he'll almost he wants to almost triple that.

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Joe: Got it.

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00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,180
Al: He's probably done his own analysis 
to figure out that's his magic number.

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Joe: Sure.

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00:10:22,580 --> 00:10:25,040
Al: So we'll go with that. I mean, that's probably  

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a good number because tax-deferred 
will grow. So will Roth IRA grow.

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Joe: And he's getting $5,000,000, right?

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00:10:32,540 --> 00:10:37,000
Al: Yeah, although I hate to plan 
that in your own early retirement.

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Joe: 33.

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Al: Yeah.

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Joe: I mean, his parents are 60s.

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00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:48,660
Al: And yeah, that's like me. I'm 
not going anywhere, juniors. huh.

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Joe: So what's it, what’s the question? 
“Can I let off the retirement savings  

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00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,360
to just get the employer match 
and put that in the Roth 401(k),  

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00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,620
increase our spending by $2000 
a month?” So, yeah, I mean-

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Al: He wants to spend a little more.

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00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:11,040
Joe: So, but, so he's saving $40,000 a 
year.  And he wants to go to $24,000 a  

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year. Or increase our spending by $2000 a month.

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Al: Yeah, maybe save about $16,000 a year, plus 
the employer matches. It's going to mean the  

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taxable account is going to take a lot longer.  
Cause there's less savings. Maybe that's okay.  

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00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,680
Maybe he works longer. I guess that's what 
he's thinking. I guess the real question is,  

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can he spend a little bit more? You got 
$3,200,000 at 33. Yes, you can spend a  

165
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little bit more. I mean, I love the idea of 
maximizing your savings, but, apparently he  

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did really well with a certain stock. Here's, this 
is a concern I have though, Joe, and that is the  

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overconfidence bias. You know, when you're 
young and you hit a home run on something,  

168
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you think you can keep doing it. And I'm not 
saying Tiger not Woods can't keep doing it. It's-  

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just be careful. You hit a home run on something 
and it's- It may or may not happen again.

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Joe: He’s 33, he's making more money, wants to 
spend a little bit more, wants to put up the  

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foot off the gas and the retirement savings, can 
he continue to do it? But the funny thing is that,  

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all right, well, if you, his planned 
retirement date is not necessarily an age,  

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it's a number, right? And when it's, when 
is non-qualified dollars reach $3,000,000.  

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So he's got to triple his non-qualified dollars, 
right? And he could do that in probably 20 years.

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Al: He could.

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00:12:38,660 --> 00:12:44,120
Joe: So now you're 53 years old. But 
without any savings at all at around,  

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00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,080
you know, 6% growth rate, right?

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00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:52,000
Al: I'm wondering if he's saving- if 
he wants to save a lot less if he's  

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thinking he'll hit another home run to get 
to the basically triple the taxable account,  

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00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:06,600
which maybe he will. I'm just saying it's- you 
do it once it's difficult to keep repeating.

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Joe: What have you found is a safe level of 
lifestyle creep? I don't- everyone does and  

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I don't know if there's a safe level or not. The 
more money that people make the more they spend.

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Al: Agreed. I think that's what's 
common. You make more and you spend  

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00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,640
it. That's what's common. Yes, and so 
the way that, you know, you stay out of  

185
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the creep is you put money into 401(k) so 
you never see it, so you can't spend it.

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00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,560
Joe: But, I don't know, Tiger and 
Lioness doing a hell of a job.

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Al: Great job. Fantastic. This is, this 
could be our record for a 33-year-old.

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Joe: For sure. By far.

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00:13:39,340 --> 00:13:43,600
Andi: There are at least 5 questions you 
need to ask yourself before you retire,  

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because after a lifetime of saving, making the 
transition to retirement means facing a whole  

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new set of challenges. As we plan today, we face a 
very different retirement landscape than the ones  

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00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:59,040
our parents saw! We're living longer and may need 
to rely on that retirement income for much longer.  

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00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:04,600
Download our free Retirement Income Strategies 
Guide to learn how to answer those five critical  

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00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:09,240
questions before you quit working. This guide 
outlines the sources of income available for  

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you in retirement and maximizing your Social 
Security benefits. It also covers how to develop  

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a retirement income strategy that meets your 
needs. Click the link in description of today’s  

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00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:23,960
episode in your favorite podcast app to download 
the Retirement Income Strategies Guide for free.

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Joe: We got, Charlie writes 
in from Castlerock, Colorado.   

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“Exciting new topic, Social Security versus 
pre-tax account withdrawals.” Is that you?

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Andi: No, that's him. He 
actually wrote that in his email.

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Al: Exciting new topic.

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Joe: Wow. Wow. Exciting.  “Hi team, love 
the show, the spitballs and the laughs.  

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Here's the question I haven't seen 
you cover. As a standalone decision,  

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I understand the pros and cons of when to take 
Social Security.”  Yep. All right. “However,  

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I haven't heard you talk about that decision 
when a person's other assets are all in pre-tax  

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accounts. This is my situation. The more I delay 
Social Security, the more I need to pull out of  

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my pre-tax accounts, which is taxed at ordinary 
income. I also lose the benefit of compounding  

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interest on the money that I pull. I also see that 
the Social Security COLA has been on average 2.5%,  

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which I think should be factored in the decision 
as well. I'm 60, single and want to retire at 61  

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or 62. I currently make approximately $200,000 
a year and I contribute the max of the 401(k)  

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and receive $6500 contribution from my employer. 
I have no Roth yet.” Don't kill me, Joe.”  Okay,  

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brother.  “I estimate I will need $7000 a month or 
$84,000 a year in today's dollars in retirement. I  

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have $1,500,000 in pre-tax retirement accounts and 
plan to start converting to Roths once I retire.  

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I have $20,000 in HSA, $50,000 in a brokerage. 
My house is worth $2,200,000 with 8 years left  

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on a $200,000 note.  My Social Security benefits 
are at 62, we got $2300 a month. 65 is $3000. 67,  

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$3500, and 70, $4400. Can you spitball some ideas 
of when to start taking Social Security given my  

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above scenario. I drive an older SUV, live in 
Castle Rock, Colorado, and I'm transitioning  

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from the Margaritas to a Rye Old Fashion now 
that the Winter has arrived. Thanks so much,  

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Charlie.” All right.  Let's talk about- so he's 
got $1,500,000, wants to retire in two years.  

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He's saving, maxing out his plan. So let's call 
it. He's got $1,800,000 at 62. He wants to spend-

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Al: Probably right. I just did 
current math, $84,000 into $1,500,000,  

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it's 5.6% distribution rate, but that 
doesn't include Social Security and tax.

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Joe: Okay.  So what he's forgetting, yeah, there's 
a COLA. But, there's also- a couple things with  

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Social Security. If you know how long you're going 
to live then you can dial this thing to the penny.

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Al: It'd be easy.

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Joe: But we don't know how long we're going to 
live. So the longer you live, the more it makes  

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sense for you to push this thing out. But that's 
the advice and that's what the numbers show. But  

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most people don't do that. A couple of things 
of why the numbers show that is that each year  

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that you wait after full retirement age, you get 
a delayed retirement credit of 8% plus the COLA.  

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So when you think about hey, well I’m pulling 
this out. And I'm losing the- there's a cost,  

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there's a opportunity cost because I'm pulling 
that money on and spending it. Right. Well,  

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how do I go about the appropriate claiming 
strategy?  Most people take it early.

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Al: They do.

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Joe: Because of that. They want a 
income stream and they don't want  

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to take a large distribution out of their 
retirement account. Because they don't want-

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Al: They don't see that balance 
go down, down, down, down-

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Joe: They like the nest egg.

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Al: I get it. I get it.

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Joe: He's done a great job. He's 
saved $1,500,000. It's like, well,  

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I want to retire at 62 and he's almost 
talking himself into taking it early.

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Al: Even though he's heard we 
should do, he should do otherwise.

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Joe: Yes.

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Al: I think for me it's a bit of a personal 
choice. When you're single, I think your own  

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expectation of life expectancy and health really 
factors into this. Because at you know, are you,  

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at 60, do you feel like you're gonna live into 
your 90s or do you feel like you got health issues  

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and it's not going to be as long. That, that's a 
factor.  And if you're not as healthy, you might  

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want to take it sooner, and so forth. If you're 
healthier, you might want to delay it. But here's  

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another thought, too, is the longer you delay it, 
not only is the benefit greater in the future, but  

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you'll have less, potentially, a little bit less 
income. You could do maybe more Roth conversions.

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Joe: I don't think he's 
going to do Roth conversions.

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Al: Probably not though, because 
he's going to, with what he needs,  

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00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,920
he's going to be in the 20% bracket anyway.

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Joe: Charlie, I did a little bit of math for 
you. Let's see if you can get this thing to  

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$1,800,000. And then once you retire, given your 
Social Security at age 62, your distribution rate  

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is going to be roughly around 3%.  And so you're 
going to have a lot more flexibility looking at  

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that balance. If you don't pull it at 62, you’re 
going to have a 5%, 5.5%, you know, let's call  

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it 4.5% to 5% distribution rate, which is 2% 
higher. Like you're going to see that balance.  

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And especially at the markets turn on you, you're 
going to see that balance go down. And can you  

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00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:55,120
handle that?  You know, 62 year, just take it. I 
think that's what he wants to hear. Just take it.

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Al: Just take it.

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00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:01,680
Joe: Financially speaking it probably doesn't 
make any sense. But I think emotionally,  

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that's what you need. You need someone to push you 
to make a bad investment decision. I'm your guy.

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Al: I think, I don't know, I still go 
back to your own health and what your  

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expectations are. I try to, me personally, I 
would hold out as long as I could. But if I,  

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if the market was going down, I saw the 
balances going down, and that felt terrible,  

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which of course it would. Maybe I start taking 
it then, I don't know.  It's a, it's really,  

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it's kind of a longevity insurance, is what Social 
Security is, if you think about it. Right. I like  

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00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:38,160
it to think about it more that way than a break 
even.  Because the break even, it's like, well you  

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have to be dead before you know if you, was a good 
idea or not, and at that point, you don't know.

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Joe: $4400, 12, so $53,000.  If he waits until 
70, he's gonna probably have a $60,000 benefit  

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00:20:55,160 --> 00:21:03,360
from Social Security, which would cover probably 
close to 70% of his living expenses. Yeah. So if  

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he burns through some of that, those assets, until 
then, he's gonna have a lot larger fixed income,  

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and if the, assets continue to burn, I'm sure 
he would still live a pretty comfortable life.

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Al: Right, right.

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00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,320
Joe: So,  But yeah-

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Al: It's a, it's, I guess, 
Charlie, it's a bit of a toss-up-

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Joe: Run the numbers and then you just 
run worst case scenarios on it and then  

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you can kind of see what, whatever that 
you want to stomach. Or you don't take  

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it and then you wait until the market 
does something and then you're like,  

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00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,120
you know what, I'm just going to pull 
the trigger and then I'll take it now.

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00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:42,960
Al: It's like, I can't stand it. And then 
by the way, I mean, every month you wait,  

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00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:49,120
you get a higher benefit, so you don't have 
to wait till 65 versus 62.  Any extra year  

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00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:52,800
or extra few months you wait, you'll have 
a better benefit. So just be aware of that.

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00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:57,520
Andi: There are over 2700 rules around 
claiming your Social Security benefits,  

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00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:02,480
so it’s a good idea to really explore all 
your options before you file. Download our  

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00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:07,160
Social Security Handbook and figure out how to 
maximize your monthly Social Security payments.  

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00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,440
This guide explains who is eligible, how 
Social Security benefits are calculated,  

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00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:16,280
the difference between collecting early vs. 
late, working while taking Social Security,  

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00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:22,640
details on spousal, ex-spousal, and survivor 
benefits, and how your Social Security is taxed.  

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00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,140
Click the Social Security Handbook link in the 
episode description to download yours for free.

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00:22:27,140 --> 00:22:33,320
Joe: We'll move on to Seattle, Washington.  We  

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got a daughter that's a career changer 
and that worries Mom. She wrote that.

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Andi: She said, yes, exactly. And 
she called herself Worrywart Mom.

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Joe: Worry Wart Mom.  Okay. “Hey, a big fan of the 
pod. Keep up the great work.  My 27-year-old had  

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a career change recently due to a layoff. She's 
very frugal and has been working hard to save.  

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This career change has caused some setbacks on 
her finances since she has to start all over from  

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the bottom. She's trying to pay off the student 
loans and save. But feels like one step forward  

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and two steps back. She's currently paying about 
$80 to $100 a month towards the student loan.   

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More whenever she could. She's working toward a 
certification to advance her career and hoping  

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she would get a raise soon. Not sure if it's 
a good idea to just pay off the student loan  

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with her savings and move on. Any insight and 
advice on a strategy to help pay off that loan  

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00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,880
and start putting money away for the future, 
like buying a house, saving for retirement,  

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etc. Your input would be much appreciated. 
Worry Wart Mom.” All right, so she’s,  

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the daughter's got  “$50,000 salary, monthly 
expenses of $2200, and student loan at $11,000,  

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interest rate’s between 3% and 4%. Current 
savings, $10,000 in a CD, $1500 in a Roth,  

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00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:05,560
$10,000 in a 401(k), and $20,000 in 
a general savings account.” Okay,  

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00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:18,900
so $48,000.  So she's probably got, I don't 
know what, $500 to $800 extra a month.

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00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:24,020
Al: Yeah, based upon what we're seeing.

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00:24:24,020 --> 00:24:29,880
Joe: Man, she's got like $50,000 some odd already.

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00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:37,360
Al: Yeah, 42. She's doing well, really 
well. Well, here's what I would say. You  

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00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:43,320
kind of look at what the needs are. So number 
one, the emergency cash reserves are fine.

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00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:44,500
Joe: It's $30,000.

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00:24:44,500 --> 00:24:50,880
Al: $30,000. Her spending is $26,000. So 
she's got a year's. So I'm good with that. So,  

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so make sure you, she at least does the 401(k) 
to the match. That's a minimum and put it in the  

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Roth side. If it were me and it was my daughter, 
I might say, you know, maybe focus on the student  

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loans that are higher interest rate, like the 
4.5% one, get that paid off quicker and make,  

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00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,840
you know, make your, make payments on the other 
ones too, of course, but make the bigger payments  

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on the higher interest rates. And then to the 
extent there's any extra money, go back to  

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the 401(k) or if it makes you feel better, pay 
more student loan. But that’s what I might do.

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Joe: 401(k) to the match.

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00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:35,040
Al: And then pay off the higher student 
loans and then you got to probably have  

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00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:42,520
extra money. Probably go back to the 401(k) was 
probably what I would do.  What was she doing?

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Joe: I don't know. I'm almost thinking about just 
getting rid of the debt.  Just getting rid of  

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it.  She needs $20,000 in cash reserves, she's 
got $30,000, student loans are $11,000. Maybe  

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you cut a check for $10,000 and then you pay 
that thing off the next few months after that,  

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00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,360
then that creates more cash than I 
would fully fund the 401(k) and Roths.

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00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:17,520
Al: Yeah. Seems dramatic. How about this? 
Why don't you pay off half of it this year  

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00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:23,400
and half next year with earnings.  I 
don't know, you've saved up $30,000,  

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you've, you were laid off. 
And a job that looks like-

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Joe: You shouldn't worry. I guess is the point.

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00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:33,260
Al: And well, I agree. I agree. Mom doesn't need 
to worry. Yeah, there's plenty here to work with.

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00:26:33,260 --> 00:26:36,120
Joe: Right. Go to the 401(k) to the 
match and then continue to chip away  

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00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:40,240
at the student loans. I mean, they're 
3% and 4.5%. If they're a lot higher-

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00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:45,035
Al: No, it's not bad. There's no tax deduct- well 
actually there is a little tax deduction for it.

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00:26:45,035 --> 00:26:49,440
Joe: She can continue to, you know, have the 
rest funnel into savings and then if that savings  

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00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,940
account gets to $25,000, take $5000, cut that 
off and get up the, you know, pay off the debt.

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00:26:53,940 --> 00:26:55,520
Al: Yeah, I like that.

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00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:00,840
Joe: Alright, cool question. Thanks for, 
thanks for that. Hopefully that helped.

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00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:08,860
Joe: Alright, we are in the San Francisco Bay with 
Esther.  My, my grandmother's name was Esther.

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00:27:08,860 --> 00:27:09,440
Al: Really?

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00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,840
Joe: Yeah, my sister's middle name is 
Esther. Didn't spell it that way, though.

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00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:14,840
Al: No.

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00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:20,280
Joe: There's an A in there, I think, 
somewhere. Okay. All right. Anyway,  

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00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:25,700
Esther. “My husband is 51 and retired 
this year. Now a house husband.” At 51.

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00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:28,160
Al: Wow. That's, there's hope for you.

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00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:35,540
Joe: Here we come. Let's go.  “I'm 47 and 
waiting to retire until I hit 49.” Wow.

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00:27:35,540 --> 00:27:36,640
Al: Two years.

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00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:42,320
Joe: “We have a 10 and 14 year old. 529 plans 
to cover 4 years of a state public school,  

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00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,960
I'm going to us- I'm going on sabbatical 
next summer and I might not want to come  

350
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:53,800
back to work after I get back. Can I pull this 
off? Net worth $11,800,000” Yep, you're good.

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00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,000
Al: Next question.

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00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:02,680
Joe: “Real estate, primary home, paid 
off, $2,600,000, investment properties,  

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00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:11,160
$2,700,000.  We get positive cash flow from them. 
They got 401(k) accounts of $3,500,000 Roth IRAs.  

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00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:18,480
And Roth 401(k)s of $600,000, brokerage accounts 
of $2,200,000 and cash of $350,000. Estimated  

355
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:27,200
expenses in retirement, padded for ACA premiums 
and cushy vacations, $21,000 a month. Currently  

356
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:33,280
working annual salaries, approximately $360,000, 
including the bonus, and about a $100,000 in  

357
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:40,440
annual RSVs that vest. We will only have 30 years 
of work on our Social Security numbers. So I think  

358
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:47,600
we'll be around $3300 each at age 67. Also, my 
husband gets a pension around $46,000, no COLA  

359
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:56,360
at the age of 65. Mentally, I have one foot out 
the door from work. If things go south at work,  

360
00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:02,640
I don't want to be trolling on LinkedIn looking 
for a job.”  Well, you're one foot out the door.

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00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,120
Al: ha. It doesn't necessarily go back.

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00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,840
Joe: She's cashed in.

363
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:15,840
Al: Yep, I was going to say, $6,600,000 
of liquid assets. $11,800,000. You can  

364
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:20,720
do almost anything you want.  So, but 
just to put a couple numbers to this.

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00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:28,480
Joe: 1000 x 12 is 252.03 is 8.4.

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00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,960
Al: What are you doing? Oh, the 3%?

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00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:32,680
Joe: Yep.

368
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:40,480
Al: Yeah, so I did it the other way.  I just 
said, what's the burn rate? It's 3.8%.  Okay.   

369
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,600
But I don't know what the positive cashflow 
is. So here's what I did, Joe. I said, okay,  

370
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:49,120
well, you got a piece of rental property 
with $2,000,000 of equity. What if it's  

371
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:56,160
3%? I don't know what it is. What 3% $60,000. 
If I take $60,000 off the $250,000 needed,  

372
00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:02,080
I get $190,000. That's a 2.9% burn rate at 50. 
I'm good with that. Plus the other thing too,  

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00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:09,920
is with this amount of assets, it's- If you need 
to cut your cushy vacations one year, you can do  

374
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,840
it. I mean, that's worth not having to go back to 
a job you don't want to go back to, I would say.

375
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:21,760
Joe: Yeah.  What would you do?  What 
we, do with your time? Yeah, that,  

376
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:27,960
that's another question. I'd have trouble 
with that at 51 or 49 in our case. I think,  

377
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,200
as you know, I was thinking 
that when I was that age and I,  

378
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:40,680
of course the real estate market changed 
my mind, but even still now being older,  

379
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:48,760
it's like, I don't know what I would have done 
at 50 without something to do. I don't know.

380
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:53,600
Joe: Yeah, I went to the doctor 
yesterday, got my physical. Yeah,  

381
00:30:53,600 --> 00:31:00,680
and then they're like, what- 
any other hobbies besides golf?

382
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,280
Al: Really?

383
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,200
Joe: I'm like, yeah, I like to 
spend hang out with my family.

384
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:06,869
Al: Yeah. Okay. Sure.

385
00:31:06,869 --> 00:31:07,520
Joe: Well, what do you guys do?

386
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,080
Joe: I don't know. We kind of hang out.

387
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:10,520
Al: Yep.

388
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:15,360
Joe: Suggesting I don't have 
enough hobbies. I mean, you know-

389
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,220
Andi: Is he saying that you need more exercise?

390
00:31:17,220 --> 00:31:18,060
Joe: No.

391
00:31:18,060 --> 00:31:21,400
Al: No Well, you can't- you 
have to have more than golf.

392
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,860
Like you gotta volunteer or you gotta have 
some, something to get up to where you-

393
00:31:24,860 --> 00:31:27,920
Joe: Wait, what, Andi, what was 
that comment? You think I'm-

394
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,160
Andi: No, well, I was figuring if they were 
asking you, do you have any other hobbies,  

395
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,640
that maybe it was because you're spending 
too much time being sedentary or something  

396
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,420
like that? And he was suggesting that you need to-

397
00:31:36,420 --> 00:31:40,440
Al: No, I don't think it's that. I think 
they're, he's a, he is a, what do you,  

398
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:46,400
what would you call Joe? Hard charger? That's 
my term.  And if he's not working, what happens?

399
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,920
Joe: Yeah, right. It's like, I 
don't know. I’d blow myself up.

400
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:58,080
Al: Yeah, it's actually, to me, that's the bigger 
question is when you're used to working really  

401
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,840
hard and being productive 
to all of a sudden not work,  

402
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:05,280
it can be a little tricky. Yeah. I 
think that's the bigger issue here.

403
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:10,480
Joe: But it sounds like they got cushy 
vacations to look forward to. So,  

404
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,480
congratulations on all the 
wealth and the well-being.

405
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:14,460
Al: Yeah, for sure.

406
00:32:14,460 --> 00:32:17,780
Joe; You're one foot out the door. If you're 
one foot out the door, just get out the door.

407
00:32:17,780 --> 00:32:19,147
Al: Yeah, just do it.

408
00:32:19,147 --> 00:32:22,880
Joe: I mean, you're just not doing anyone any good 
here. You're just kind of milking that $360,000,  

409
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,160
right? And you're miserable, going to work every 
day. It's like, you got enough assets, why don't  

410
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,380
you find something that you're really passionate 
about, then make a little bit less money.

411
00:32:30,380 --> 00:32:35,360
Al: Right, and, if you, retire and you can't 
find something you're passionate about,  

412
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,760
you know what, go back to work, get 
another job. Whatever, but yeah,  

413
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,874
if you want to give it a try, 
you've got the assets to do it.

414
00:32:41,874 --> 00:32:46,920
Andi: There so many factors to take into account 
when forecasting your financial future: inflation,  

415
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:52,200
required minimum distributions, asset allocation, 
stock market declines, Social Security and  

416
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:58,280
Medicare, long-term care and estate planning, 
and many others. After 40-plus years saving for  

417
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:03,360
retirement, the last thing that you want to do 
is sabotage all your hard work with unrealistic  

418
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:09,920
expectations, market miscalculations, or planning 
missteps once you retire! Watch Retirement  

419
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:16,440
Sabotage: 12 Post-Retirement Money Mistakes to 
Avoid on Your Money, Your Wealth TV and learn  

420
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:22,160
from Joe Anderson, CFP® and Big Al Clopine, 
CPA key tips and tricks to avoid sabotaging  

421
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:27,800
yourself. Download the Retirement Readiness Guide 
for 7 plays to help you get retirement ready,  

422
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,920
despite the uncertainties we face along the way. 
Click the links in the episode description to  

423
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,880
watch YMYW TV, download the Retirement Readiness 
Gide, and access other financial resources,  

424
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:40,220
all free, all courtesy of Your Money, 
Your Wealth and Pure Financial Advisors.

425
00:33:40,220 --> 00:33:43,920
Joe: All right, we got James, he 
writes in, he goes, “Hey Joe, Al, Andi,  

426
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:49,140
I enjoy your podcast while walking the peaceful 
neighborhood and local trails and canyons.”

427
00:33:49,140 --> 00:33:52,600
Andi: I forgot to mention that James 
is actually from Tierrasanta here in  

428
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,520
San Diego. He did actually 
put that in his email. So-

429
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:56,220
Al: Okay.

430
00:33:56,220 --> 00:33:57,720
Joe: Oh, Tierrasanta. It's just down the street.

431
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,360
Al: Yeah, right. Okay.

432
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:08,052
Joe: Alrighty.  “On special occasions, my wife 
and I enjoy a little iced Thai tea with boba.”

433
00:34:08,052 --> 00:34:10,360
Al: Never heard of Thai tea with boba?

434
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:17,520
Joe: No, sir. Never heard of it. “- 
while exploring the fantastic Convoy  

435
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:22,520
area restaurants.” All right. I've been 
down Convoy Street. “But I'm planning  

436
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:28,480
to retire next year when we turned 60 and 
thought we would request some advice, or,  

437
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:33,920
I mean, a spitball from you while we 
chew on our boba.” You chew on boba.

438
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,200
Andi: Boba is little, like, chewy little,  

439
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,700
gelatinous pearls that go into 
the bottom of iced tea drinks.

440
00:34:40,700 --> 00:34:43,020
Al: Yeah, it's like tapioca in your tea.

441
00:34:43,020 --> 00:34:43,720
Andi: Yeah.

442
00:34:43,720 --> 00:34:44,410
Joe: Tapioca?

443
00:34:44,410 --> 00:34:44,880
Al: Yeah.

444
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:46,240
Joe: That's what that's like.

445
00:34:46,240 --> 00:34:50,520
Al: It's like they put different spices 
and they it's got a little milk in it.  

446
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:55,040
They have these little yeah pearls, 
Andi. I mean, it's what I've not had  

447
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:59,235
it. I've heard. It's like tapioca.  So 
you're drinking.  You're drinking your-

448
00:34:59,235 --> 00:35:03,180
Joe: When I think of tapioca, I’m 
thinking like pudding. Not pearls.

449
00:35:03,180 --> 00:35:07,720
Al: Well, you know, tapioca has 
those little pearls in it. You  

450
00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:12,035
take out the pudding part and just put the pearl-

451
00:35:12,035 --> 00:35:14,520
Joe: So it's a pearl before it becomes pudding?

452
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:15,340
Al: I think so.

453
00:35:15,340 --> 00:35:16,260
Joe: I got it.

454
00:35:16,260 --> 00:35:20,640
Al: I actually, I've never had one. 
I just have seen people with it.

455
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:26,360
Andi: I love Thai tea, but 
I do not put boba in it.

456
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:32,920
Joe: All right.  Okay. “We estimate we'd like 
our annual retirement income to be $180,000.  

457
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:37,200
Next year, we have $2,000,000 in our 401(k)s 
and $2,000,000 in a deferred compensation  

458
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:42,720
account that can be rolled over into an IRA upon 
retirement. My family history suggests that I've  

459
00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:48,720
got the longevity gene. We're both in good 
health, so we've been taking advantage of the  

460
00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:55,480
normalization of rates over the last two years 
and purchased a couple of annuities with GLWBs,  

461
00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:03,240
Guaranteed Life Withdrawal Benefits, for 
longevity insurance, one which will turn  

462
00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:10,680
on when we are age 65 at $47,000 a year, and 
another that will turn on at age 70 for $28,000  

463
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:17,880
a year. We're planning on waiting until 70 to 
turn on Social Security, which we estimate will  

464
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:25,000
be $50,000 a year combined.  In our 60s, we 
plan on aggressively converting to Roth IRAs,  

465
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:32,840
our combined $4,000,000 pre-tax 401(k) plus 
deferred comp before RMDs kick in at age 73.  

466
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:40,360
I know this is just a spitball.  What do you think 
of our retirement plan? Do you think it can work?   

467
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:46,920
Or do you think one of us should plan on working 
for a few more years in our 60s? Thanks for your  

468
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:53,029
very entertaining financial education. You 3 
are great.”  All right, cool. Thanks, Dave.

469
00:36:53,029 --> 00:36:54,880
Al: That's nice.

470
00:36:54,880 --> 00:37:03,380
Joe: All right, first of all, you got a lot of 
assets, but I don't like these guaranteed GLWBs.

471
00:37:03,380 --> 00:37:08,020
Al: Lifetime withdrawal benefit?

472
00:37:08,020 --> 00:37:08,030
Joe: Mmmm.

473
00:37:08,030 --> 00:37:10,000
Al: Mmmm. Why don't you like them?

474
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,060
Joe: Because the insurance company always wins.

475
00:37:12,060 --> 00:37:14,520
Al: They do seem to win a lot, don't they?

476
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,080
Joe: Yes, they do. I understand you have-

477
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,820
Al: But if she lives a long time, maybe she wins.

478
00:37:20,820 --> 00:37:23,280
Joe: It's a he, James.

479
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:24,980
Al: Okay, sorry. He.

480
00:37:24,980 --> 00:37:28,680
Joe: Yeah, it's fine. It is what it 
is. They bought the insurance. So,  

481
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:34,940
$65,000. They want to spend $180,000. They 
have, what, $4,000,000 liquid right now?

482
00:37:34,940 --> 00:37:39,760
Al: Yeah. 4% on that would be $160,000. 
They're basically there. That doesn't  

483
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,680
include Social Security, and 
it certainly doesn't include  

484
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:47,500
the guaranteed income.  Once you add that 
in, they got, they have plenty of money.

485
00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:50,560
Joe: Yeah, I think their guaranteed 
income is going to be, what, $120,000?

486
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,280
Al: Yeah, call it $125,000 out 
of $180,000, right? Right. So,  

487
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:59,160
and then you got $4 million to 
produce, we'll call it $60,000.

488
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:07,680
Joe: Yeah.  Yeah, it's fine. But I would consider 
that the annuities as your fixed income or bonds.  

489
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:12,320
So I would probably take on a little bit more risk 
in the overall liquid assets because you have a  

490
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:17,840
pretty high floor in regards to fixed income. 
So, right. If you think of those guaranteed  

491
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:23,360
annuities as your bond allocation, I mean you 
still will have a quite a bit of liquidity and  

492
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:28,840
then do conversions up until 65 until that first 
annuity kicks in. Yeah, and I take a look at where  

493
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:33,920
tax brackets are but they don't have a ton of 
money in non-qualified accounts. It looks like,

494
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:38,440
Al: No, they don't. It's all 
tax-deferred. I mean almost all.

495
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,840
Joe: So- I wonder where those annuities came from.  

496
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:49,200
Were they non-qualified dollars or were they 
qualified?  So when you do the conversions,  

497
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,160
you just gotta be careful of 
where you're pulling the tax.

498
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:53,560
Al: Right, right, right.

499
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,280
Joe: Is it gonna work? Yeah, it'll work.

500
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,280
Al: Anyway, the question is, do you, 
what do you think our retirement plan,  

501
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,700
do we need to go back to work? The 
answer is no. You got plenty here.

502
00:39:01,700 --> 00:39:04,060
Joe: Do I like the plan?

503
00:39:04,060 --> 00:39:06,475
Al: That wasn't what they asked.

504
00:39:06,475 --> 00:39:07,516
Joe: Okay, then I'll just shut up.

505
00:39:07,516 --> 00:39:11,700
Al: Well, actually, he did want you to 
spitball. So you don't really like the annuity.

506
00:39:11,700 --> 00:39:14,600
Joe: No. Why do you think it's 
a she? Because of the tapioca?

507
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:23,400
Al: I don't know. Maybe. Sorry, James.

508
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,360
Andi: Well, it is James and his wife.

509
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,020
Joe: Yeah, it's James and his wife.

510
00:39:29,020 --> 00:39:31,360
Al: Yeah, it's just based on this one.

511
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:38,390
Joe: Yeah, alright. Well, no, I think the plan 
works.  Don't love it. But think it works.

512
00:39:38,390 --> 00:39:38,760
Al: Yeah, me too.

513
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,480
Joe: All right, way to go. Congrats James. 
Show’s called Your Money, Your Wealth®.

514
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:47,040
Andi: Richie and Heather, Rebecca and Sam, 
and P. Ware, I’ve asked Joe and Big Al to  

515
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:52,040
spitball on your questions on when to claim 
Social Security, what to do with an annuity,  

516
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:57,520
reasonable financial advisor fees, and of 
course, Roth conversions, next week in YMYW  

517
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:03,040
podcast episode 509. We appreciate you watching 
us on YouTube and Spotify, and listening on  

518
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:08,200
Apple Podcasts and all the other podcast apps. 
Tell your friends and join us then, won’t you?

519
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,480
Time flies, especially when it comes 
to planning for retirement at year-end.  

520
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:17,760
Don't put your financial future on hold! Get 
a comprehensive assessment for free from one  

521
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:22,000
of the experienced professionals on Joe and 
Big Al’s team at Pure Financial Advisors. See  

522
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,640
if you're on track. They’ll analyze your 
situation, identify potential roadblocks,  

523
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:31,840
and help you create a detailed, personalized plan 
for your retirement. Don't wait to book yours,  

524
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:36,800
right now everyone is looking for last 
minute ways to save on their 2024 taxes,  

525
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,960
and to prepare for what’s coming in 
2025. Click the free assessment link  

526
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:50,000
in the episode description or call 888-994-6257 
to schedule your Free Financial Assessment, ASAP.

527
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:56,040
Pure Financial Advisors is a registered 
investment advisor. This show does not  

528
00:40:56,040 --> 00:41:00,040
intend to provide personalized investment advice 
through this podcast and does not represent that  

529
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:05,200
the securities or services discussed are suitable 
for any investor. As rules and regulations change,  

530
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,960
podcast content may become outdated. Investors are 
advised not to rely on any information contained  

531
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,320
in the podcast in the process of making 
a full and informed investment decision.