Daniel: Dear horse world, it's Daniel Bluman
Noelle: Daniel, welcome to the podcast.
Daniel: Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Noelle: Okay.
So I wanna kind of share a little bit of background for our, for our listeners
and everyone who's watching the episode, because we're here because you messaged
me after you watched Rodrigo's episode.
Daniel: Yeah.
Noelle: And we had, what I love, and, and for anyone who knows you, who's
listening to this episode, they'll appreciate this as a very Daniel moment.
You- we had this awesome back and forth conversation of what
that podcast brought up for you.
And so it so naturally and organically turned into, "Hey, let's,
like, when I come to Wellington, let's have a conversation."
And that's something that I have always really appreciated about you,
is how approachable and how easy it is to talk about all facets of this
horse world, of this sport with you.
Do you find that that's, that, that you're like that?
Daniel: Yeah.
You know, I, I love what we do.
You know, I'm incredibly grateful about the life we have and what the horses
have given us, and I am the number one fan of the sport at the same time.
So I can really appreciate, you know, good conversations.
I can appreciate good podcast.
I can appreciate good articles, and I take... I try to get something
from it, from all of them because I think that, uh, all of us different
riders and horsemen have different stories and have different situations-
Mm ... and have different upbringings.
And to try to understand each other and to understand each other's life
gives a better understanding of what it takes, you know, to do it well.
And in my particular situation, when I heard the one about Rodrigo,
is, is how w- what would be my approach with my own children.
Noelle: Yeah.
You know?
Daniel: And my own children now ride, and, uh, and, and I, I wanna be as
educated as possible, uh, to see, um, how I can be the best for them.
Not only for them to be riders if they decide to, to do that, but also obviously
and most importantly to be great horsemen-
Noelle: Mm
... Daniel: if they decide to be in this industry.
And above everything, that they're happy and, and healthy, well-balanced
people when they grow up.
Noelle: Okay.
So before we dive in, 'cause the, the meat of this conversation, I'm so
excited to dive into you, into with you, which is gonna be about, you know, the
horse- the dichotomy of being a great rider and a great horseman, right?
And I'm so excited.
I think our listeners are gonna get so much out of your perspective on this.
But you said something.
Before we pressed record, you said something that I just, like, oh,
I'm, I just, like, lit up and I just about bounced off the sofa.
We were talking about mentality and the way that the h- the way of the horseman,
the w- the life of the horseman is really actually very connected to nature.
And I, first of all, I hadn't heard a top rider, at least not to con- in
conversation with me, I've not heard a top rider reference the connection to nature.
the way that you have.
And that it's in, that it's a, uh, that it's a fundamental part of a rider's life.
So I want you to expand on that for everybody because it really, first of all,
it took me back realizing that no one ever had e- had ever referenced that before.
And I want you to expand on that thought and to talk to me about really
what you believe is, like, distilling features of great, of great horse
people in the industry as a whole.
Daniel: You see, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to, to explain
the best way possible, right?
Yeah.
You know, to, to do, to do it, um, right for, for the idea, you know.
But this is something that I keep very present on, on my day-to-day.
I, I think, or I find that, that nature is, is an incredible blessing.
You know, especially nowadays when you see so much digital and, you
know, so m- so many outside forces coming into our life, you know, from,
from very different things happening.
Um, the one thing that is consistent is nature, you know?
And, and we are so blessed, you know, to be able to work surrounded by nature.
You know, not only the horses, which obs- obviously is incredible,
but, but the farms themselves, you know, the places where we work.
Our office is a farm, you know, and, and, and, and I always say to myself,
you know, that we are glamorous farmers, but nevertheless farmers.
You know, that's, that's what we are.
You know, if you wanna be a, a great in this sport and you wanna be a, a great
horseman and, and a great rider, you have to appreciate the life of the farmer.
You know, you have to appreciate, um, starting the day every day regardless
of the weather, and being out there with the horses, and being out there
with your staff and your team, and, and taking care of your, of your farm.
You know, taking care of your place, making sure, you know, that, that
it's clean, you know, that it's, that it's, it's good for the horses, that
they have the right grass, that they have... You know, no different than
when you're a farmer and you're working with the chicken or you're working
with the cows or you're working with the sheep or whatever you're working.
We work with horses, but at the, but, but we're, we're just farmers,
you know, at the, at the very end.
Um, that we are so lucky that the sport has evolved in a direction
that has allowed us to, to, to have the more glamour and, and do much
better business and get much more sophisticated and all these things.
Sure, and I appreciate that.
I think all of that is also great, but the, the, the, the,
the roots of it is the land.
You know, the roots of it is the animals, and that is the true
beauty of the lifestyle that we have the possibility to live nowadays.
If we don't appreciate and value that root, I think we're
just, uh, in the wrong industry.
Maybe we should just do something different altogether, because then
we're doing it for the wrong reasons.
Noelle: So when people in the industry wanna make show jumping, let's
say, more like Formula 1, which is the antithesis of farming, right?
Daniel: Yeah.
Noelle: How do you think-- Like, what would you want everyone to hear
when, when we're talking about this?
What do you wish the industry to keep focused on?
As more money comes in, you know, there are more show jumping
events than there have ever been, and there's more prize money.
There's so much money being injected into the sport of show jumping.
How would you like the industry-- If you could speak to the whole
industry right now, especially the economics of it, what would you like
people to keep in mind or not forget?
Daniel: Yeah, I think it is the not forget and keep in mind.
I, I appreciate all of that that is happening.
I think it's, it's great, you know, the influx of resources and
competitions and all these things, as long as you don't forget the root.
You know, if you, if you remember the roots and, and the reason why we do
this and, and why, why, um, we are not unique in the, in the sense of the sport.
And what do I mean by that?
We are unique perhaps in the fact that we can get to go to all these different shows
and venues and, you know, these glamorous, beautiful place and all that stuff.
That makes us unique amongst the people that own and ride horses.
Noelle: Mm-hmm.
Daniel: But what doesn't make us unique is that we ride horses.
Just like someone that owns a horse when I'm driving down the road, and
they have a horse in their backyard.
They ride that horse.
They love that horse.
They feed that horse.
They take care of that horse.
That horse means something to them.
They trailer the horse to the, to the hospital when it's sick.
You know, they take care of their horse.
You know, they do everything, and then one day they have to say goodbye to
their horse and, and let them pass to, to whatever is next or however you
want to call it, and, and, and keep going and then maybe get another horse.
And, you know, we have all that in common with, with the people that own horses.
Mm-hmm.
And I always say that if we want our sport to survive and to continue to, to be what
it is, we have to not forget that that's what links us with the horse lovers.
If we end up going into a sport where even the people that love horses
and ride and even jump and do some sport don't admire or don't look up
to, then we're totally disconnected.
And in order not to be disconnected, we can't forget about the
roots that actually connect us.
And it's not that we shouldn't forget about those roots because
we want to connect with the people.
The connection with the people is just a consequence.
The fact is we should never disconnect from those roots because that's what's
going to preserve the sport and preserve a healthy lifestyle for everyone that wants
to do the sport in many years to come.
So I am not against the, the more shows.
I'm not against taking a lot of the great things that Formula One is doing
and, and, uh, implementing it in the sport of show jumping as the sport.
You know?
And I think that aspect is, is very good.
But we can't forget that behind that, there's a lot.
Just like when you look at Formula One, Formula One, behind everything
that you're seeing, there's a lot of things that are also happening.
It's just not what people are- are looking at, and that's why we have to be, uh,
very careful of what we teach our younger generation so that they understand that
before getting to the glamour and, you know, the prize money and, you know,
the big businesses and the big brands and all this kind of stuff, there is
life of a simple kid or a simple family with their group taking care of their
horses, taking care of their land, you know, and just making a life, you know?
And then some of us have been so lucky that we ended up being able to get
the right information, make more good decisions than bad decisions, and we ended
up making it to the top of the sport.
Mm-hmm.
And that's great, you know?
But I know a lot of people that have not had the, the trajectory that some of us
have had, yet are great horsemen- Mm-hmm
and are great people and live great lives, you know?
So we c- we, we have to be always very objective when we want to
get into the horse world and understand why we're doing it.
And if the answer is the wrong answer, I truly advise the family of, of, of the
people and the friends to advise this person to maybe pursue something else.
Because if the only thing that you're wanting to get is that fame or that
glamour, stuff like that, you're going to live a very miserable life.
Noelle: Why?
Daniel: Because you can never get enough.
There's never enough victories.
There's never enough Grand Prix wins.
There's never enough high ranking.
There's just never enough.
You know, you want more, more, more, more, more, more, and then if you
fall d- down that path, you're gonna finish your career, and even if
you have all the accolades in the world, you're not gonna be fulfilled.
But in the other side, if you actually do it for the right reasons and you wake
up to do what you love with people that you love, with animals that you love, you
know, to train, to work, you know, to do what we do, then you're already fulfilled.
Everything that happens after that, you know, how much you win or, you
know, your accolades, it's just extra.
But nobody can take away the fulfillment of what really matters,
you know, which is, in my opinion, the roots of, of this sport.
You know, and I've had the chance to travel and I c- I mean, I, I, I
grew up in Colombia for my first few years, then I was in South Florida,
and I was pretty much stuck to those two areas of the world, you know?
I, I didn't get to travel very much when I was younger.
And as I got to travel and I got to see the horsemen and the, the, the people in
our industry from the different countries in, and continents, as a matter of fact,
a- and even in the United States, you know, in, in other states, I had so much
more appreciation and love for our sport.
I already loved it when I was little.
Mm-hmm.
I love it even more now, 'cause I got to see, you know, like, some of
these families in different parts of the world that love their horses.
They breed, they ride, you know, it's like something they do together as a family.
Yeah.
And they go and they see the shows together, and for them it's a big thing.
And then- You know, sometimes they get lucky and one of their kids or nephews or
sisters or someone ends up being a good rider, and then they end up making it up.
Totally.
And it's just so beautiful.
And then you go to those barns, those old barns, and, you know, everything is
more simple, and, you know, the horses are happy, and the people are happy.
And you go into these tack rooms that are half tack room, half,
like, something else, and there's always, like, the hot coffee that
they're going to- Yeah ... offer you.
And then, you know, I, I just find that to be so beautiful, you know?
And, and how e- even in those winter days, you know, you go in there and
they have their little fire going on, and, and the horse is hairy because
it's now it's colder, and they just w- pull the horse out of the stall, throw
that tack on, and then you ride it.
I, I think this is, this is beautiful, you know?
I think that's the essence of what we do, and that is the horse, you know?
Then, you know, once you start developing and getting into all these different ideas
and products and one thing and the next thing, at the very end, this is simple.
And it's been simple for generations, and it's been simple in different ways,
perhaps depending where you come from.
The French have their ways, the German have their ways,
the English have their ways.
In Australia, they have their ways.
The American have their ways.
In South America and Argentina or in Brazil, they have their ways.
But all of them were around the horse.
Noelle: Yeah.
Daniel: All of them were horsemen.
Different in practices, different in their views, and different in
their approach, but all horsemen.
And that's something that I believe we have to preserve,
no matter what, above all.
Noelle: Yeah.
Daniel: Above all.
Welcome everything else that is happening to the industry.
I think all is great, but we must preserve that, no matter what.
Noelle: How, how... Well, first of all, actually, before I ask you
that question, I wanna say that, first of all, just in my, for my own
journey, because, and you know this, I mean, here we are in Wellington.
It's so... I mean, I said to you, I, I've been coming to f- to Wellington
for over a decade, and I still don't-- I still love it and appreciate it, but
it's, it doesn't feel like real life.
Like, it doesn't feel like the, the real horse world.
It feels like a version of the horse world.
And so I, I really appreciate, just from, for my own journey with my own
horses and my own place, like, I really appreciate that, like, hey, stick
with, make yourself a horse-first facility or a horse-first barn.
Like, really focus on the things that matter, which is the care
and, and consideration of your horses, which... So I think our
listeners are really gonna appreciate that, like, that call to action.
It's like a banner- Yeah ... that they can wear.
But how do we preserve that?
Because there's more pulling riders in lots of different directions.
There's more demands.
There's more expectations from sponsors to be on social media.
There's more opportunities to make and pro- you know, make
money and promote products.
Like, how do we, from your perspective, how do we keep horsemanship at the
core of, of the evolution of things?
Daniel: Well, I think that we have to, to fall in love With
the lifestyle of the horseman.
I think you cannot force anyone to do anything.
It's not possible.
You know?
The, the, we can educate, and through education, people can learn, and through
learning, they can fall in love with it.
Because the fact is, is that what we do, and this lifestyle is, is incredible.
Mm-hmm.
It's beautiful.
You know, like, what is there not to love?
But if you're not introduced to it the right way or, or at all, then you don't
have a way to fall in love with it.
Noelle: Yeah, that's true.
You
Daniel: know?
And, and I think that obviously when you're growing up and, and when you
don't have the tools in your brain and, and in your emotions to be able
to, you know, to, to, to, to stay out of, of, of the instant gratification
or, or, you know, or, or, or walk away from what seems to be cool, right?
Yeah.
You wanna, you wanna get some attention.
You wanna get recognition.
This is something that is human.
All of us want it in some level or another, especially when we're
growing up and we don't have the tools to identify really what is
it that driving us to something.
We could get easily distracted.
In my personal situation, I had the luck to work with some
great horsemen that- Like,
Noelle: let's say- The-
'cause there are some amazing people.
Yeah, yeah,
Daniel: of course.
I mean, uh, I had the opportunity to work with Nelson Pessoa.
I've had the opportunity, you know, to work with Jeroen
Dubbeldam, with Hans Horn.
You know, I've, I've been very, very blessed- Yes ... to work
with some incredible horsemen that also had amazing success.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
So I was always driven by the both lives.
I, I've always loved the horses and taking care of them ever since
I was very young, but I obviously wanted to have some recognition.
I wanted to make a life out of it.
I wanted to make a business out of it, and you know, I, I need to
do something with my life, right?
And having the opportunity to, to, to see them very close and work with them
very close and see h- their philosophy and also see how successful they,
they've been and they are- Mm ... showed me that there was a way to do both.
So what we have to do is educate people, you know, on, on, on these things an- an-
and also let them know that the fact is, is that the majority of the best riders
in the world, and I'm not saying all, but a great majority, are great horsemen.
Mm. You know, they live the life of a great horseman, and in my particular
case, I would always admire, and like me, there's many others, because
I've spoken to a lot of different riders and fans of the sport.
I would always appreciate much more the horseman that has had
success than the non-horseman that maybe won more classes or had more
ribbons or had more Grand Prix wins.
Mm-hmm.
I will always cherish those moments from those horsemen, riders,
and, and, and, and, and real, um,
humans that practice the sport in this way that I love so much.
Noelle: Mm-hmm
Daniel: And, and those moments from tho- when those riders win still today, and
they are in many ways obviously my direct competition, when, when these riders
that I admire so much, these horsemen that are also riders win, I smile.
Noelle: Yeah.
Daniel: I like it.
I'm their fan.
You know, I, I want them to do well.
You know, uh, when I'm in the r- go, when I'm going to compete
against them, those guys and girls are the ones that I still fear.
Mm-hmm.
Put it that way.
You know, like I, I, I see them, and I still see an idol.
Noelle: Cool.
Daniel: You know, and I will till the end of my things.
The other ones that are maybe do a sport in a different way, that it's not
my type of sport, yeah, they're there.
If they win, cool.
If they don't win-
Noelle: But you don't celebrate them.
Daniel: No, I don't admire this, that sport.
You know?
It's, it's just not the sport that I like.
Noelle: Mm-hmm.
Daniel: You know?
Because the sport that I like always will put the horse first, no matter what.
Above the result, the horse will always come first.
And sure, you know, in the, in certain instances, you're gonna have to postpone
gratification, sometimes too much, you know, sometimes to a point that you just
postponed it all the way, and you never actually won with that horse because
you wanted to do it the right way.
You were... You know, and some horses just don't make it.
You know?
Don't... They, they're not good enough for that level in, in
this, in this, in this system.
But when they are, and, and you actually end up hitting those relationships,
those horses, you establish those connections, and you actually start having
success, now there's nothing like it.
Noelle: Mm-hmm.
Daniel: There's nothing like it, and the public also knows, and
the horse lovers also understand, and they identify with this.
So you can have, as a horseman, a career where you have 50% of the accolades of
some other riders, yet if you do it the right way, you're gonna end up getting
just the same results when it comes to business, when it comes to, to, to
awareness, recognition, everything else.
So, you know, at the end, everything plays out right.
If you do it well, you might think that you're, you know, you're not gonna get
at the end the gratification that some others are getting, but that's incorrect.
If you stick your way and you do it the right way and, you know,
you just, you stick, stay honest to your path, everything works in
a way that you end up getting more than you ever dreamed you could get.
Noelle: I want you... Okay, so I wanna take this opportunity in this moment
to delineate between when you're talking about a horseman who happens
to be a rider and a, a, a person who is a rider who's maybe not, who
doesn't make horse-first decisions.
I want you to explain in your words the difference so that everyone who's watching
or listening to this episode Can really then can educate their eye and their
mind when they're listening to you and they're understanding that you're making
a delineation between these two people.
Daniel: Yeah, I think that the, the first part that is very important about this
is to under- to, to, to understand that horsemanship is very complex, you know?
Like, when, when, when you say you want to be a horseman or people
use the term horseman, it sounds simple, yet it's very complex.
You know, to be a horseman, you really have to have tremendous
understanding of the horse as an animal.
Noelle: Yeah.
Daniel: Nothing to do with sport, just as an animal.
What is best for the horse?
How do they eat?
How do they exercise?
How do they sleep?
How do they spend their time?
What weather they like, you know.
Noelle: How do they learn?
How
Daniel: do they learn?
How do they move on their feet?
How do they interact with each other?
Yep.
How do their feet work?
How do they recover from injury?
You know, there is on and on and on.
There's a ... It takes, first of all, it takes many years.
Yeah.
To become a good rider is way easier, way, way easier than it
is to become a, a good horseman.
In fact, most of us will always be first good riders before we are good horsemen.
The horseman will co- because it takes longer time, it takes more
time, it takes more experiences.
It takes a lot of different factors that have to come in in order to get there.
So there's the, the, the, the, the difference between
one and the other, right?
A horseman,
or in order to be able to be the best horseman you can be, naturally you
have to spend time with the horses.
Yeah.
You know, there's no way you can be a horseman if you're
all the time in an airplane.
You know, if you're, if you're traveling from one place to the next, one place to
the next, it's very difficult to, to do your job as a horseman, put it that way.
Because there's horsemen that became horsemen and then they made of their
lives working, helping other people-
Noelle: Yes
Daniel: through their skills.
Noelle: Yes.
Daniel: They're already horsemen.
But if you want to be a, a horseman and a rider at the same time, and
be in the competition ring and be successful, if you wanna do it
everything, then it takes balance.
You know, it's, it's, it's, it's a package, you know, of, of
the ... And you need to find it.
You know, how much can you travel?
How much do you have to stay at home?
How many horses can you manage?
Because if you have too many horses, you cannot give each, uh, enough
attention to each of the horses.
Noelle: Yeah.
Daniel: If you have too many horses, that ne- means you need more employees.
And every person that works in a barn needs to have a, a, a, a,
an understanding of their tasks.
Noelle: Yeah.
Daniel: I'm not gonna say everyone that works in each organization is a
horseman, because that would be a lie.
There's people that don't need to be horsemen in order to perform
certain tasks in an organization.
But when you have a, a strong organization, you
cannot be the only horseman.
Mm. You need to have other people that are, might not be riders, might
not be, uh, uh, ring riders, but they're nonetheless amazing horsemen.
We have grooms that are incredible horsemen.
We have riders that are home riders that are incredible horsemen.
We have trainers that are incredible horsemen, yet never jumped a Grand Prix.
Never.
Not even close.
Some of them never even showed-
Noelle: Yeah
... Daniel: and they're great horsemen.
You know, so there's the horseman aspect of it.
Now, when you speak about riders, I mean, what is a good rider?
A good rider is someone that can get on a horse- Mm-hmm ... and, and in the sport
of show jumping, uh, has the, the, the ability and, and, and the experience to
go in the ring and, and get a result.
You know, jump the fences clear and go fast.
You know, it's, it's, it's as simple as that.
Noelle: Yeah.
Daniel: Um, and there's many, many, many people.
Many, many, many people that can ride a horse and have a nice
position, have some feeling, and they can go fast in the jump off.
There's some better than others, naturally.
You know, some have outstanding skills, you know, like, wow, look how they
can turn, they can go fast, their position, natural position, strength,
balance, you know, all these things.
And listen, super admirable anyways, you know.
Like, who doesn't like to see a, a good rider in the ring?
I think that's really cool.
But in my view or how I enjoy the sport, I want to see the combination of both.
I love that.
It's just a personal... I don't judge anyone that sees it differently.
It's just what I like, you know?
And, and, and, uh, gratefully, uh, some of the best riders by ranking
in the world are great horsemen, so I'm, I'm able to, to enjoy that.
Noelle: Well, and maybe they're great-- You do, you do think that there's a
correlation because in order to be great, you have to have endurance, and
to have endurance, you have to have a bigger why than just to win, because
we all know that if you're, if you're a top ranking show jumping rider, you're
still gonna lose more times than you win.
Yeah.
So you have to have a greater why.
But I want you to describe, 'cause this is something that has come up in a lot
of recent conversations we've had on the podcast, where you're watching a
rider in the arena and you can see the shift, and I know you know what I mean.
You'll see the shift from putting the horse first to maybe becoming a bit more
of a showman or asking beyond what that horse is capable of doing because they
are getting maybe caught up in the moment.
Daniel: Yeah.
Noelle: And this happens not just in show jumping, it happens in
lots of different horse sports.
And the, the more refined your eye becomes, the more you can start to see
that shift, and sometimes it happens right at the beginning or before
that rider even enters the arena.
Sometimes it happens on course or during, during s- like a
demonstration, for example.
Yeah.
I would love for you, from your perspective, because I love the way
that you explain this, the way you articulate this, I would love for you
to explain to our listeners What is happening inside the rider's mind?
Because you know what I mean.
Yeah.
When you're making a decision that's in the best interest of the horse,
or you're making a decision that's in the best interest of the moment.
Daniel: Yeah.
Look, it, it's, it's, it's obviously very hard.
I mean, you're dealing with, uh, with a lot of human emotions, um,
and circumstances obviously, because, uh, we're, we're jumping, uh, some
horses that we don't own ourselves.
Mm-hmm.
Um, we're jumping for a lot of prize money.
Uh, you're jumping for recognition.
So in a moment, you have to make, uh, decisions, you know, of, of what you're
going to do, and I don't think that a- an- anyone gets them always right.
Um, I do think that some of us have our North Star, as I say, very,
very c- very clear, so we make the right decision most of the times.
And by right decision, I don't mean the decision that ended up being,
being the winner of the class.
I mean the decision that was what was right for the horse.
But it is very hard, you know, I...
And, and I understand it because I live it, and that's why I am not too
harsh to judge, uh, others when, when they make the wrong decision because I
understand what they're going through.
What I don't appreciate is some that make the wrong decision too many times, you
know, some that make the wrong decision knowing they're making the wrong decision.
Noelle: Like despite the fact that they know better- They know
better ... they don't do better.
Daniel: Because we can make the wrong decision out of ignorance, which
is normal, lack of experience, lack of information, lack of, of knowing
what you're doing, and, you know, we cannot blame someone for that.
It's part of life.
You learn by making mistakes.
But when you make the mistakes, or what I call mistakes, knowing what you're
doing and knowing what comes after that, I lose a little bit of respect for you.
You know, that's, that's, that's just, it's just how it is, you know?
And, and, uh, I keep it to myself, you know, like it's, uh, we're not
here to, to discuss what the other one is doing right or doing wrong.
It's none of my business anyways.
But in the other hand, I can appreciate the ones that do it right and yet
have a lot of success, you know?
And, and, and those for me are idols, you know, like, uh, uh, and just throw
some names out there of people that I think about a lot and are always, like,
really competitive and, and winning.
I mean, Steve Guerdat, you know, Kent Farrington, you know, guys
that are oriented for their horses, build relationships, you know, are
super, super cautious of how they manage their horses and what they do.
Um, you know, I had the opportunity to actually go just for, for a few
hours, uh, to Peder Fredricson's place.
Noelle: Mm-hmm
Daniel: Loved every side of it Isn't
Noelle: it the, I mean-
Daniel: Like, it's just gorgeous.
It's just horse-oriented.
It's just how he, how he goes about the day, how the horses go about the day.
It's just, you know, th- this is super cool.
Yeah.
You know, when you see some riders that have that amount, and I'm sh- I'm not
mentioning many others, like, hey, I'm just throwing some names out there.
Yeah.
There's many, many that I have huge respect for and admire immensely.
I'm just, just throwing some out there that just came to mind right
now or that I think about often.
But this is cool, you know, because it shows you that there are ways
that you can have a lot of success-
Noelle: Mm-hmm
... Daniel: and still always keep thinking about what is the best for the horse.
And on that line, you know, not, not to get too much into it, I think that
we also have a responsibility not only to the best horses that we ride,
also to the other horses, you know?
Like, there are some horses that maybe are not, and I say it often, they're
not good enough for the high-level sport for us, but they for sure
can be very good for someone else.
Yeah.
You know, so for me, that's something personal.
You know, when, in any... And we have a big network now, big family, big business,
a lot of horses in all different levels.
Any horse that goes through our, any of our organizations, regardless of
their level, has to be treated the way the horses need to be treated.
Mm. You know, they need to h- eat properly.
They need to spend time outside.
You know, they, everything needs to be done right.
And what happens to them after they come to our barn is very important to us.
Do we have full control?
Obviously not.
But to as much as we can, we would like the horses that sell, that go to other
places, to go to the right places.
Noelle: Mm-hmm.
Daniel: Because I feel that when you do that, you're paying forward.
And, and the, the, the horse, uh, god or the horse- ... energy
or whatever you wanna call it-
Noelle: Yes ... is
Daniel: gonna give it back to you.
Noelle: God, I love that.
You know?
Daniel: So I, I think that we have that responsibility, not only to
our horses, but any of the horses that are around us, and to share the
message to the younger generations and whoever wants to hear, because
that's really the beauty of what we do.
That's really the beauty of what we do.
You know, I've had the opportunity to meet some, uh, adult riders that started
riding late in life, and what they feel for those horses and what they feel
for the sport is just simply beautiful.
Yeah.
You know, how and what they would be willing to do for their horse,
that some of them don't even jump.
I mean, they barely trot or canter.
This is beautiful.
That is the magic of our animal.
Noelle: Mm.
Daniel: Especially in this country, that is so expensive.
You know, in America, to own a horse, and there's no secret to anyone, in
any level, even if you just have it as a trail horse, it's expensive.
Noelle: It is.
Because
Daniel: the vets are expensive, everything's expensive.
And people are willing to make the effort Of pay what it costs to upkeep
a horse because they love it so much, and that just shows you the power of
the connection between horse and human.
That's amazing.
I mean, you don't see this on anything else.
I mean, obviously with our dogs, we're willing to do everything,
or our pets, but, you know, with these horses and keeping them up and
taking care of them, I mean, it's just so much, yet we do it with joy.
Noelle: Yeah.
I think we are, I think, I mean, we're, you and I are biased, but I
do think that horse people are this really special group of people in
the population of humanity because I think we have this s- really beautiful
connection to nature, this really beauti- beautiful interspecies relationship.
But also, when we wake up every morning and we know exactly
what we're meant to do- Yeah
and we have a purpose, and we know exactly how we wanna move through the world,
and that we have goals until the day we die- Yeah ... because horses are- Are
there ... it's a lifelong pursuit, right?
For sure.
But I wanna go back because I, this is the fir- and no one could have told me
that I was gonna talk about good horse karma with Daniel Bluman on the podcast.
This makes me... I mean, I've, I, you know, we've known each other a long time,
and I always have just won- wonderfully rewarding conversations with you.
But I'm so excited that here on the podcast, Daniel Bluman is talking about
good horse karma, paying it forward, that the horse go- like, I love this idea.
It doesn't, and it, you know, it can be as, as woo as you like, but
I love that you think that way.
Like, I really want everyone to hear that, that you think that way, that you
believe that if you care for the horses that you've had in your barn or w- in your
family and in your program, if you care about what happens to them afterwards,
that you believe that that, like the, the, that you, that there's a good karma
around that, that the horse gods, like, or whatever it means, that the collective
consciousness of horses, that they will somehow, that it will come back to you.
Daniel: Yeah.
I mean, look, I'm gonna tell you a, a very short story because it's
something that marked me forever.
In, in our farm, on a horse farm, nothing to do with sport, it was just
horses in the mountains, the trail to work with the cows and whatever back
in Colombia, someone, I would imagine was my uncle or someone, um, printed
something or bought something and put in the wall, and in Spanish it's, I'm
saying the name in Spanish, it was Plegaria del Caballo, which if you
try to print, translate, it's like the wishes of the horse is, or the horse's
wish, something, something like that.
And just to summarize what it said, it was pretty much telling
you the horse is speaking to you.
So this thing that is in writing, the horse is speaking to us, and he's
telling us, um, "I will serve you.
I will do what you ask from me, and all I ask in return is that you feed me,
that you take care of me, and that when I am weak and can no longer do it, you
allow me to retire with dignity and- In the point that I then I'm too weak
to even continue living, you recognize that it is my time to go, you know?
And as a young child and still my, like, I, it just s- feels, it,
it's something I feel too much, you know, when I think about it.
Because I was so young when I was reading it and I was trying to
understand what that meant, you know?
Like, what is the horse really trying to tell me there, you know?
And as I grew older and I got to understand more and more and learn
more and more, it, it all made sense.
You know, so this is part of what I live for, you know what I mean?
And, and when you really understand the horses, you understand
really what the horse wants.
And the horse wants is not what you want.
And sometimes you'd be confused even you, "But I think this is the best for
the horse." And you're really coming from the right place in your heart.
You know, "I think that the horse wouldn't want this." But you have to understand,
horses are not humans, they're horses.
You know, horses need to live like horses live.
You know, horses need to be horses.
Like paddocks, for example, I mean.
And I understand, I have a lot of colleagues and people that I know, their
horses don't go out in the paddock.
You know, maybe they get injured, they're afraid something could happen.
And sure, it, something can happen.
But some- something also can happen in their stall, also when
you ride them, also when you're in a jump off, also in many things.
But horses are animals that like to be outside, you know?
Yeah.
That is, that is the nature of it.
So that, that just as one example.
Other examples, you know, horses, as they're getting older and, and, you
know, they can, they are really just too old to, to be around anymore, people
don't wanna just let them go, you know?
You got, you have to understand there's a point in life, in nature
that our existence here is expired.
Noelle: Yeah.
Daniel: You know what I mean?
And I, I, and that's just one more of the very difficult decisions
that we as horsemen have to make.
Sometimes you have to do what you have to do-
Noelle: Yeah
... Daniel: for the horse, you know, because this is just the way that
the horse life goes, you know?
And it goes the same with every other little decision that we're making
when we're them, we're with them.
They're, they, like, as Steve says very often, they don't decide in
what class they're going to show.
We choose what class they're going to jump.
So we have a huge responsibility with the horse.
Put it in the right class.
Put it where it should jump.
You know, put it where it can perform, where it can perform for many years.
Where i- if one year after a few, it's not performing at that level
anymore for a variety of reasons, maybe it needs to jump in another level.
Now it's time to jump smaller or don't jump at all, you know?
But when you're horse conscious and you make these conscious
decisions, horse karma happens.
They will give it back to you.
And if it's not that horse, it will be another one, because it becomes a habit.
You start making better decisions.
Like a muscle.
Yeah.
You're just doing it.
You're just doing it right.
Horse after horse, horse after horse, horse after horse.
And then suddenly comes a horse into your life that has the talent, has the, the,
the physical ability- Has the health, and then with all of these great practices
that you've accumulated by doing things correctly, that horse, wow, explodes.
And then suddenly you have one of those horses that are winning week
after week, that the fans love, that people want to see, that people are
following, and then all of these things that I tell you that every human
being or most human beings want some recognition, it just happens naturally.
But you were not thinking about that.
You were thinking about just doing... Y- you gotta treat every horse
right, is pretty much the message.
Every horse that comes in front of you, you have to treat it right,
with respect, and with, with, if not love, uh, with empathy.
Mm. If you do that, the horses will give back to you.
One of those horses that you treated with love, that you treated with empathy,
that you treated with respect, is going to turn out to be special athlete.
Yeah.
And that special athlete, together with what you've nurtured, becomes a superstar.
And that's what I believe.
And, you know, and, and if someone has a different philosophy or
something, I don't wanna hear it because I like what I believe.
You know?
So,
Noelle: so I just
Daniel: wanna keep believing that.
Noelle: I, I wanna acknowledge what you're talking about is the
antithesis of objectification.
Do you know what I mean when I say that?
Daniel: Yeah.