1 00:00:00,259 --> 00:00:02,180 Daniel: Dear horse world, it's Daniel Bluman 2 00:00:05,130 --> 00:00:07,249 Noelle: Daniel, welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:07,310 --> 00:00:07,929 Daniel: Thank you. 4 00:00:07,999 --> 00:00:08,819 Thank you for having me. 5 00:00:09,319 --> 00:00:09,770 Noelle: Okay. 6 00:00:09,859 --> 00:00:14,660 So I wanna kind of share a little bit of background for our, for our listeners 7 00:00:14,660 --> 00:00:18,710 and everyone who's watching the episode, because we're here because you messaged 8 00:00:18,710 --> 00:00:21,309 me after you watched Rodrigo's episode. 9 00:00:21,399 --> 00:00:21,530 Daniel: Yeah. 10 00:00:21,789 --> 00:00:25,319 Noelle: And we had, what I love, and, and for anyone who knows you, who's 11 00:00:25,319 --> 00:00:28,830 listening to this episode, they'll appreciate this as a very Daniel moment. 12 00:00:28,830 --> 00:00:33,580 You- we had this awesome back and forth conversation of what 13 00:00:33,580 --> 00:00:35,969 that podcast brought up for you. 14 00:00:36,669 --> 00:00:39,889 And so it so naturally and organically turned into, "Hey, let's, 15 00:00:39,950 --> 00:00:42,380 like, when I come to Wellington, let's have a conversation." 16 00:00:43,029 --> 00:00:46,810 And that's something that I have always really appreciated about you, 17 00:00:46,889 --> 00:00:51,490 is how approachable and how easy it is to talk about all facets of this 18 00:00:51,990 --> 00:00:54,669 horse world, of this sport with you. 19 00:00:54,669 --> 00:00:56,910 Do you find that that's, that, that you're like that? 20 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:57,560 Daniel: Yeah. 21 00:00:57,610 --> 00:00:59,540 You know, I, I love what we do. 22 00:00:59,810 --> 00:01:03,700 You know, I'm incredibly grateful about the life we have and what the horses 23 00:01:03,729 --> 00:01:07,860 have given us, and I am the number one fan of the sport at the same time. 24 00:01:08,299 --> 00:01:11,929 So I can really appreciate, you know, good conversations. 25 00:01:11,929 --> 00:01:13,710 I can appreciate good podcast. 26 00:01:13,710 --> 00:01:17,380 I can appreciate good articles, and I take... I try to get something 27 00:01:17,380 --> 00:01:20,969 from it, from all of them because I think that, uh, all of us different 28 00:01:20,969 --> 00:01:24,969 riders and horsemen have different stories and have different situations- 29 00:01:25,119 --> 00:01:26,890 Mm ... and have different upbringings. 30 00:01:27,299 --> 00:01:30,530 And to try to understand each other and to understand each other's life 31 00:01:30,950 --> 00:01:34,570 gives a better understanding of what it takes, you know, to do it well. 32 00:01:34,979 --> 00:01:38,869 And in my particular situation, when I heard the one about Rodrigo, 33 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:43,479 is, is how w- what would be my approach with my own children. 34 00:01:43,999 --> 00:01:44,179 Noelle: Yeah. 35 00:01:44,179 --> 00:01:44,350 You know? 36 00:01:44,509 --> 00:01:49,119 Daniel: And my own children now ride, and, uh, and, and I, I wanna be as 37 00:01:49,119 --> 00:01:54,869 educated as possible, uh, to see, um, how I can be the best for them. 38 00:01:54,950 --> 00:01:58,579 Not only for them to be riders if they decide to, to do that, but also obviously 39 00:01:58,579 --> 00:02:00,520 and most importantly to be great horsemen- 40 00:02:00,719 --> 00:02:00,990 Noelle: Mm 41 00:02:01,109 --> 00:02:02,910 ... Daniel: if they decide to be in this industry. 42 00:02:03,390 --> 00:02:07,079 And above everything, that they're happy and, and healthy, well-balanced 43 00:02:07,619 --> 00:02:08,560 people when they grow up. 44 00:02:09,820 --> 00:02:10,189 Noelle: Okay. 45 00:02:10,380 --> 00:02:14,510 So before we dive in, 'cause the, the meat of this conversation, I'm so 46 00:02:14,510 --> 00:02:19,829 excited to dive into you, into with you, which is gonna be about, you know, the 47 00:02:19,829 --> 00:02:24,029 horse- the dichotomy of being a great rider and a great horseman, right? 48 00:02:24,299 --> 00:02:25,230 And I'm so excited. 49 00:02:25,230 --> 00:02:28,309 I think our listeners are gonna get so much out of your perspective on this. 50 00:02:29,089 --> 00:02:29,910 But you said something. 51 00:02:29,910 --> 00:02:33,010 Before we pressed record, you said something that I just, like, oh, 52 00:02:33,010 --> 00:02:36,449 I'm, I just, like, lit up and I just about bounced off the sofa. 53 00:02:37,490 --> 00:02:43,260 We were talking about mentality and the way that the h- the way of the horseman, 54 00:02:43,339 --> 00:02:48,189 the w- the life of the horseman is really actually very connected to nature. 55 00:02:48,779 --> 00:02:53,520 And I, first of all, I hadn't heard a top rider, at least not to con- in 56 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:58,814 conversation with me, I've not heard a top rider reference the connection to nature. 57 00:02:59,355 --> 00:03:00,065 the way that you have. 58 00:03:01,364 --> 00:03:05,454 And that it's in, that it's a, uh, that it's a fundamental part of a rider's life. 59 00:03:06,304 --> 00:03:10,325 So I want you to expand on that for everybody because it really, first of all, 60 00:03:10,325 --> 00:03:15,065 it took me back realizing that no one ever had e- had ever referenced that before. 61 00:03:15,864 --> 00:03:19,755 And I want you to expand on that thought and to talk to me about really 62 00:03:19,755 --> 00:03:25,884 what you believe is, like, distilling features of great, of great horse 63 00:03:25,925 --> 00:03:27,614 people in the industry as a whole. 64 00:03:29,044 --> 00:03:31,055 Daniel: You see, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to, to explain 65 00:03:31,055 --> 00:03:32,114 the best way possible, right? 66 00:03:32,114 --> 00:03:32,254 Yeah. 67 00:03:32,285 --> 00:03:37,035 You know, to, to do, to do it, um, right for, for the idea, you know. 68 00:03:37,035 --> 00:03:40,355 But this is something that I keep very present on, on my day-to-day. 69 00:03:40,355 --> 00:03:45,145 I, I think, or I find that, that nature is, is an incredible blessing. 70 00:03:45,484 --> 00:03:49,895 You know, especially nowadays when you see so much digital and, you 71 00:03:49,895 --> 00:03:53,535 know, so m- so many outside forces coming into our life, you know, from, 72 00:03:53,645 --> 00:03:56,344 from very different things happening. 73 00:03:56,565 --> 00:03:59,734 Um, the one thing that is consistent is nature, you know? 74 00:03:59,734 --> 00:04:05,255 And, and we are so blessed, you know, to be able to work surrounded by nature. 75 00:04:05,295 --> 00:04:08,175 You know, not only the horses, which obs- obviously is incredible, 76 00:04:08,175 --> 00:04:11,484 but, but the farms themselves, you know, the places where we work. 77 00:04:11,514 --> 00:04:15,855 Our office is a farm, you know, and, and, and, and I always say to myself, 78 00:04:16,505 --> 00:04:20,865 you know, that we are glamorous farmers, but nevertheless farmers. 79 00:04:21,084 --> 00:04:22,274 You know, that's, that's what we are. 80 00:04:22,315 --> 00:04:25,124 You know, if you wanna be a, a great in this sport and you wanna be a, a great 81 00:04:25,124 --> 00:04:29,505 horseman and, and a great rider, you have to appreciate the life of the farmer. 82 00:04:29,764 --> 00:04:33,935 You know, you have to appreciate, um, starting the day every day regardless 83 00:04:33,935 --> 00:04:37,584 of the weather, and being out there with the horses, and being out there 84 00:04:37,584 --> 00:04:41,715 with your staff and your team, and, and taking care of your, of your farm. 85 00:04:41,904 --> 00:04:45,444 You know, taking care of your place, making sure, you know, that, that 86 00:04:45,444 --> 00:04:49,584 it's clean, you know, that it's, that it's, it's good for the horses, that 87 00:04:49,584 --> 00:04:52,215 they have the right grass, that they have... You know, no different than 88 00:04:52,215 --> 00:04:54,514 when you're a farmer and you're working with the chicken or you're working 89 00:04:54,514 --> 00:04:57,164 with the cows or you're working with the sheep or whatever you're working. 90 00:04:57,465 --> 00:05:01,035 We work with horses, but at the, but, but we're, we're just farmers, 91 00:05:01,035 --> 00:05:02,355 you know, at the, at the very end. 92 00:05:02,755 --> 00:05:07,234 Um, that we are so lucky that the sport has evolved in a direction 93 00:05:07,234 --> 00:05:11,744 that has allowed us to, to, to have the more glamour and, and do much 94 00:05:11,744 --> 00:05:15,175 better business and get much more sophisticated and all these things. 95 00:05:15,445 --> 00:05:16,525 Sure, and I appreciate that. 96 00:05:16,525 --> 00:05:19,645 I think all of that is also great, but the, the, the, the, 97 00:05:19,725 --> 00:05:22,014 the roots of it is the land. 98 00:05:22,404 --> 00:05:25,275 You know, the roots of it is the animals, and that is the true 99 00:05:25,275 --> 00:05:29,805 beauty of the lifestyle that we have the possibility to live nowadays. 100 00:05:30,945 --> 00:05:36,994 If we don't appreciate and value that root, I think we're 101 00:05:36,994 --> 00:05:38,505 just, uh, in the wrong industry. 102 00:05:38,615 --> 00:05:42,204 Maybe we should just do something different altogether, because then 103 00:05:42,204 --> 00:05:43,565 we're doing it for the wrong reasons. 104 00:05:45,035 --> 00:05:49,184 Noelle: So when people in the industry wanna make show jumping, let's 105 00:05:49,184 --> 00:05:54,135 say, more like Formula 1, which is the antithesis of farming, right? 106 00:05:54,135 --> 00:05:54,335 Daniel: Yeah. 107 00:05:55,305 --> 00:05:58,865 Noelle: How do you think-- Like, what would you want everyone to hear 108 00:05:58,865 --> 00:06:00,464 when, when we're talking about this? 109 00:06:00,865 --> 00:06:04,764 What do you wish the industry to keep focused on? 110 00:06:04,804 --> 00:06:07,184 As more money comes in, you know, there are more show jumping 111 00:06:07,184 --> 00:06:11,414 events than there have ever been, and there's more prize money. 112 00:06:11,695 --> 00:06:15,354 There's so much money being injected into the sport of show jumping. 113 00:06:17,265 --> 00:06:20,184 How would you like the industry-- If you could speak to the whole 114 00:06:20,184 --> 00:06:23,544 industry right now, especially the economics of it, what would you like 115 00:06:23,544 --> 00:06:27,015 people to keep in mind or not forget? 116 00:06:27,895 --> 00:06:30,315 Daniel: Yeah, I think it is the not forget and keep in mind. 117 00:06:30,344 --> 00:06:33,025 I, I appreciate all of that that is happening. 118 00:06:33,025 --> 00:06:36,724 I think it's, it's great, you know, the influx of resources and 119 00:06:37,035 --> 00:06:41,185 competitions and all these things, as long as you don't forget the root. 120 00:06:41,564 --> 00:06:44,994 You know, if you, if you remember the roots and, and the reason why we do 121 00:06:44,994 --> 00:06:53,144 this and, and why, why, um, we are not unique in the, in the sense of the sport. 122 00:06:53,144 --> 00:06:54,304 And what do I mean by that? 123 00:06:55,104 --> 00:07:00,565 We are unique perhaps in the fact that we can get to go to all these different shows 124 00:07:00,565 --> 00:07:03,894 and venues and, you know, these glamorous, beautiful place and all that stuff. 125 00:07:03,955 --> 00:07:06,874 That makes us unique amongst the people that own and ride horses. 126 00:07:07,074 --> 00:07:07,324 Noelle: Mm-hmm. 127 00:07:07,365 --> 00:07:10,135 Daniel: But what doesn't make us unique is that we ride horses. 128 00:07:10,484 --> 00:07:13,655 Just like someone that owns a horse when I'm driving down the road, and 129 00:07:13,655 --> 00:07:14,854 they have a horse in their backyard. 130 00:07:15,085 --> 00:07:15,885 They ride that horse. 131 00:07:15,925 --> 00:07:16,764 They love that horse. 132 00:07:16,815 --> 00:07:17,635 They feed that horse. 133 00:07:17,675 --> 00:07:18,624 They take care of that horse. 134 00:07:18,624 --> 00:07:19,845 That horse means something to them. 135 00:07:20,155 --> 00:07:22,855 They trailer the horse to the, to the hospital when it's sick. 136 00:07:23,145 --> 00:07:24,294 You know, they take care of their horse. 137 00:07:24,294 --> 00:07:26,914 You know, they do everything, and then one day they have to say goodbye to 138 00:07:26,914 --> 00:07:31,425 their horse and, and let them pass to, to whatever is next or however you 139 00:07:31,425 --> 00:07:35,234 want to call it, and, and, and keep going and then maybe get another horse. 140 00:07:35,234 --> 00:07:39,734 And, you know, we have all that in common with, with the people that own horses. 141 00:07:39,874 --> 00:07:40,154 Mm-hmm. 142 00:07:40,255 --> 00:07:45,755 And I always say that if we want our sport to survive and to continue to, to be what 143 00:07:45,755 --> 00:07:53,304 it is, we have to not forget that that's what links us with the horse lovers. 144 00:07:53,904 --> 00:07:57,755 If we end up going into a sport where even the people that love horses 145 00:07:57,755 --> 00:08:02,065 and ride and even jump and do some sport don't admire or don't look up 146 00:08:02,065 --> 00:08:04,434 to, then we're totally disconnected. 147 00:08:05,154 --> 00:08:07,965 And in order not to be disconnected, we can't forget about the 148 00:08:07,965 --> 00:08:09,505 roots that actually connect us. 149 00:08:10,105 --> 00:08:13,234 And it's not that we shouldn't forget about those roots because 150 00:08:13,234 --> 00:08:14,614 we want to connect with the people. 151 00:08:15,205 --> 00:08:17,264 The connection with the people is just a consequence. 152 00:08:17,264 --> 00:08:20,664 The fact is we should never disconnect from those roots because that's what's 153 00:08:20,664 --> 00:08:25,264 going to preserve the sport and preserve a healthy lifestyle for everyone that wants 154 00:08:25,264 --> 00:08:26,925 to do the sport in many years to come. 155 00:08:27,434 --> 00:08:29,994 So I am not against the, the more shows. 156 00:08:29,994 --> 00:08:34,184 I'm not against taking a lot of the great things that Formula One is doing 157 00:08:34,574 --> 00:08:39,514 and, and, uh, implementing it in the sport of show jumping as the sport. 158 00:08:39,565 --> 00:08:39,815 You know? 159 00:08:39,815 --> 00:08:41,675 And I think that aspect is, is very good. 160 00:08:42,095 --> 00:08:45,264 But we can't forget that behind that, there's a lot. 161 00:08:45,654 --> 00:08:49,684 Just like when you look at Formula One, Formula One, behind everything 162 00:08:49,684 --> 00:08:52,294 that you're seeing, there's a lot of things that are also happening. 163 00:08:52,494 --> 00:08:57,174 It's just not what people are- are looking at, and that's why we have to be, uh, 164 00:08:57,204 --> 00:09:01,854 very careful of what we teach our younger generation so that they understand that 165 00:09:01,854 --> 00:09:06,404 before getting to the glamour and, you know, the prize money and, you know, 166 00:09:06,404 --> 00:09:10,645 the big businesses and the big brands and all this kind of stuff, there is 167 00:09:10,645 --> 00:09:15,254 life of a simple kid or a simple family with their group taking care of their 168 00:09:15,254 --> 00:09:20,555 horses, taking care of their land, you know, and just making a life, you know? 169 00:09:20,555 --> 00:09:25,705 And then some of us have been so lucky that we ended up being able to get 170 00:09:25,705 --> 00:09:29,824 the right information, make more good decisions than bad decisions, and we ended 171 00:09:29,824 --> 00:09:31,865 up making it to the top of the sport. 172 00:09:32,495 --> 00:09:32,655 Mm-hmm. 173 00:09:32,684 --> 00:09:34,184 And that's great, you know? 174 00:09:34,184 --> 00:09:39,205 But I know a lot of people that have not had the, the trajectory that some of us 175 00:09:39,205 --> 00:09:42,414 have had, yet are great horsemen- Mm-hmm 176 00:09:42,615 --> 00:09:46,515 and are great people and live great lives, you know? 177 00:09:46,515 --> 00:09:51,804 So we c- we, we have to be always very objective when we want to 178 00:09:51,804 --> 00:09:55,504 get into the horse world and understand why we're doing it. 179 00:09:55,824 --> 00:10:02,695 And if the answer is the wrong answer, I truly advise the family of, of, of the 180 00:10:02,695 --> 00:10:06,394 people and the friends to advise this person to maybe pursue something else. 181 00:10:06,975 --> 00:10:10,464 Because if the only thing that you're wanting to get is that fame or that 182 00:10:10,464 --> 00:10:14,695 glamour, stuff like that, you're going to live a very miserable life. 183 00:10:15,375 --> 00:10:15,744 Noelle: Why? 184 00:10:16,104 --> 00:10:17,545 Daniel: Because you can never get enough. 185 00:10:18,244 --> 00:10:20,004 There's never enough victories. 186 00:10:20,004 --> 00:10:21,644 There's never enough Grand Prix wins. 187 00:10:21,644 --> 00:10:23,115 There's never enough high ranking. 188 00:10:23,115 --> 00:10:24,174 There's just never enough. 189 00:10:25,045 --> 00:10:28,085 You know, you want more, more, more, more, more, more, and then if you 190 00:10:28,085 --> 00:10:31,365 fall d- down that path, you're gonna finish your career, and even if 191 00:10:31,365 --> 00:10:34,365 you have all the accolades in the world, you're not gonna be fulfilled. 192 00:10:35,814 --> 00:10:39,945 But in the other side, if you actually do it for the right reasons and you wake 193 00:10:39,945 --> 00:10:43,985 up to do what you love with people that you love, with animals that you love, you 194 00:10:43,985 --> 00:10:49,375 know, to train, to work, you know, to do what we do, then you're already fulfilled. 195 00:10:49,784 --> 00:10:53,295 Everything that happens after that, you know, how much you win or, you 196 00:10:53,295 --> 00:10:55,004 know, your accolades, it's just extra. 197 00:10:55,365 --> 00:10:59,725 But nobody can take away the fulfillment of what really matters, 198 00:11:00,254 --> 00:11:04,004 you know, which is, in my opinion, the roots of, of this sport. 199 00:11:04,615 --> 00:11:08,075 You know, and I've had the chance to travel and I c- I mean, I, I, I 200 00:11:08,075 --> 00:11:11,544 grew up in Colombia for my first few years, then I was in South Florida, 201 00:11:11,975 --> 00:11:14,945 and I was pretty much stuck to those two areas of the world, you know? 202 00:11:14,945 --> 00:11:17,204 I, I didn't get to travel very much when I was younger. 203 00:11:18,085 --> 00:11:21,825 And as I got to travel and I got to see the horsemen and the, the, the people in 204 00:11:21,825 --> 00:11:25,775 our industry from the different countries in, and continents, as a matter of fact, 205 00:11:26,475 --> 00:11:31,355 a- and even in the United States, you know, in, in other states, I had so much 206 00:11:31,355 --> 00:11:33,855 more appreciation and love for our sport. 207 00:11:33,954 --> 00:11:35,355 I already loved it when I was little. 208 00:11:35,475 --> 00:11:35,644 Mm-hmm. 209 00:11:35,715 --> 00:11:39,965 I love it even more now, 'cause I got to see, you know, like, some of 210 00:11:39,965 --> 00:11:44,055 these families in different parts of the world that love their horses. 211 00:11:44,144 --> 00:11:48,225 They breed, they ride, you know, it's like something they do together as a family. 212 00:11:48,314 --> 00:11:48,465 Yeah. 213 00:11:48,495 --> 00:11:51,495 And they go and they see the shows together, and for them it's a big thing. 214 00:11:51,495 --> 00:11:55,100 And then- You know, sometimes they get lucky and one of their kids or nephews or 215 00:11:55,100 --> 00:11:58,320 sisters or someone ends up being a good rider, and then they end up making it up. 216 00:11:58,320 --> 00:11:58,720 Totally. 217 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,000 And it's just so beautiful. 218 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,710 And then you go to those barns, those old barns, and, you know, everything is 219 00:12:03,710 --> 00:12:08,699 more simple, and, you know, the horses are happy, and the people are happy. 220 00:12:08,699 --> 00:12:11,670 And you go into these tack rooms that are half tack room, half, 221 00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:14,920 like, something else, and there's always, like, the hot coffee that 222 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:16,500 they're going to- Yeah ... offer you. 223 00:12:16,670 --> 00:12:20,139 And then, you know, I, I just find that to be so beautiful, you know? 224 00:12:20,139 --> 00:12:23,469 And, and how e- even in those winter days, you know, you go in there and 225 00:12:23,469 --> 00:12:27,289 they have their little fire going on, and, and the horse is hairy because 226 00:12:27,289 --> 00:12:30,830 it's now it's colder, and they just w- pull the horse out of the stall, throw 227 00:12:30,830 --> 00:12:32,309 that tack on, and then you ride it. 228 00:12:32,710 --> 00:12:35,019 I, I think this is, this is beautiful, you know? 229 00:12:35,019 --> 00:12:39,350 I think that's the essence of what we do, and that is the horse, you know? 230 00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:43,129 Then, you know, once you start developing and getting into all these different ideas 231 00:12:43,129 --> 00:12:48,170 and products and one thing and the next thing, at the very end, this is simple. 232 00:12:48,539 --> 00:12:52,469 And it's been simple for generations, and it's been simple in different ways, 233 00:12:52,469 --> 00:12:54,330 perhaps depending where you come from. 234 00:12:54,330 --> 00:12:56,569 The French have their ways, the German have their ways, 235 00:12:56,569 --> 00:12:57,569 the English have their ways. 236 00:12:57,569 --> 00:12:58,910 In Australia, they have their ways. 237 00:12:58,910 --> 00:13:00,029 The American have their ways. 238 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,709 In South America and Argentina or in Brazil, they have their ways. 239 00:13:04,249 --> 00:13:06,099 But all of them were around the horse. 240 00:13:06,419 --> 00:13:06,669 Noelle: Yeah. 241 00:13:06,859 --> 00:13:07,940 Daniel: All of them were horsemen. 242 00:13:08,569 --> 00:13:11,440 Different in practices, different in their views, and different in 243 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:12,929 their approach, but all horsemen. 244 00:13:13,459 --> 00:13:16,940 And that's something that I believe we have to preserve, 245 00:13:17,429 --> 00:13:19,690 no matter what, above all. 246 00:13:19,959 --> 00:13:20,219 Noelle: Yeah. 247 00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:21,510 Daniel: Above all. 248 00:13:22,020 --> 00:13:24,569 Welcome everything else that is happening to the industry. 249 00:13:24,569 --> 00:13:28,380 I think all is great, but we must preserve that, no matter what. 250 00:13:28,929 --> 00:13:31,700 Noelle: How, how... Well, first of all, actually, before I ask you 251 00:13:31,700 --> 00:13:35,499 that question, I wanna say that, first of all, just in my, for my own 252 00:13:35,499 --> 00:13:39,830 journey, because, and you know this, I mean, here we are in Wellington. 253 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:44,349 It's so... I mean, I said to you, I, I've been coming to f- to Wellington 254 00:13:44,349 --> 00:13:49,150 for over a decade, and I still don't-- I still love it and appreciate it, but 255 00:13:49,150 --> 00:13:51,050 it's, it doesn't feel like real life. 256 00:13:51,090 --> 00:13:54,080 Like, it doesn't feel like the, the real horse world. 257 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,419 It feels like a version of the horse world. 258 00:13:56,910 --> 00:14:00,730 And so I, I really appreciate, just from, for my own journey with my own 259 00:14:00,730 --> 00:14:04,530 horses and my own place, like, I really appreciate that, like, hey, stick 260 00:14:04,530 --> 00:14:09,500 with, make yourself a horse-first facility or a horse-first barn. 261 00:14:09,500 --> 00:14:12,500 Like, really focus on the things that matter, which is the care 262 00:14:12,539 --> 00:14:15,470 and, and consideration of your horses, which... So I think our 263 00:14:15,470 --> 00:14:18,610 listeners are really gonna appreciate that, like, that call to action. 264 00:14:18,860 --> 00:14:20,780 It's like a banner- Yeah ... that they can wear. 265 00:14:21,780 --> 00:14:24,230 But how do we preserve that? 266 00:14:24,739 --> 00:14:29,280 Because there's more pulling riders in lots of different directions. 267 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:30,179 There's more demands. 268 00:14:30,179 --> 00:14:33,819 There's more expectations from sponsors to be on social media. 269 00:14:34,140 --> 00:14:36,819 There's more opportunities to make and pro- you know, make 270 00:14:36,819 --> 00:14:38,170 money and promote products. 271 00:14:38,450 --> 00:14:43,679 Like, how do we, from your perspective, how do we keep horsemanship at the 272 00:14:43,679 --> 00:14:46,489 core of, of the evolution of things? 273 00:14:46,750 --> 00:14:51,039 Daniel: Well, I think that we have to, to fall in love With 274 00:14:51,039 --> 00:14:52,329 the lifestyle of the horseman. 275 00:14:52,590 --> 00:14:54,990 I think you cannot force anyone to do anything. 276 00:14:55,309 --> 00:14:56,119 It's not possible. 277 00:14:56,450 --> 00:14:56,760 You know? 278 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:01,700 The, the, we can educate, and through education, people can learn, and through 279 00:15:01,700 --> 00:15:03,280 learning, they can fall in love with it. 280 00:15:03,639 --> 00:15:08,100 Because the fact is, is that what we do, and this lifestyle is, is incredible. 281 00:15:08,100 --> 00:15:08,129 Mm-hmm. 282 00:15:08,479 --> 00:15:09,209 It's beautiful. 283 00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:11,020 You know, like, what is there not to love? 284 00:15:11,490 --> 00:15:17,260 But if you're not introduced to it the right way or, or at all, then you don't 285 00:15:17,260 --> 00:15:19,020 have a way to fall in love with it. 286 00:15:19,049 --> 00:15:19,570 Noelle: Yeah, that's true. 287 00:15:19,570 --> 00:15:19,629 You 288 00:15:19,629 --> 00:15:19,969 Daniel: know? 289 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,900 And, and I think that obviously when you're growing up and, and when you 290 00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:28,920 don't have the tools in your brain and, and in your emotions to be able 291 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:33,920 to, you know, to, to, to, to stay out of, of, of the instant gratification 292 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:38,980 or, or, you know, or, or, or walk away from what seems to be cool, right? 293 00:15:38,980 --> 00:15:39,039 Yeah. 294 00:15:39,039 --> 00:15:40,800 You wanna, you wanna get some attention. 295 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,069 You wanna get recognition. 296 00:15:42,420 --> 00:15:43,640 This is something that is human. 297 00:15:44,730 --> 00:15:48,190 All of us want it in some level or another, especially when we're 298 00:15:48,190 --> 00:15:51,309 growing up and we don't have the tools to identify really what is 299 00:15:51,309 --> 00:15:52,480 it that driving us to something. 300 00:15:52,830 --> 00:15:54,309 We could get easily distracted. 301 00:15:56,069 --> 00:16:00,700 In my personal situation, I had the luck to work with some 302 00:16:00,700 --> 00:16:02,770 great horsemen that- Like, 303 00:16:03,219 --> 00:16:03,660 Noelle: let's say- The- 304 00:16:03,660 --> 00:16:05,060 'cause there are some amazing people. 305 00:16:05,060 --> 00:16:05,310 Yeah, yeah, 306 00:16:05,310 --> 00:16:05,700 Daniel: of course. 307 00:16:05,700 --> 00:16:08,219 I mean, uh, I had the opportunity to work with Nelson Pessoa. 308 00:16:08,219 --> 00:16:11,090 I've had the opportunity, you know, to work with Jeroen 309 00:16:11,090 --> 00:16:12,539 Dubbeldam, with Hans Horn. 310 00:16:12,830 --> 00:16:15,080 You know, I've, I've been very, very blessed- Yes ... to work 311 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:20,139 with some incredible horsemen that also had amazing success. 312 00:16:20,270 --> 00:16:20,560 Mm-hmm. 313 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:20,840 Right? 314 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,419 So I was always driven by the both lives. 315 00:16:24,419 --> 00:16:27,950 I, I've always loved the horses and taking care of them ever since 316 00:16:27,950 --> 00:16:30,349 I was very young, but I obviously wanted to have some recognition. 317 00:16:30,349 --> 00:16:31,560 I wanted to make a life out of it. 318 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,130 I wanted to make a business out of it, and you know, I, I need to 319 00:16:34,130 --> 00:16:35,450 do something with my life, right? 320 00:16:35,830 --> 00:16:40,330 And having the opportunity to, to, to see them very close and work with them 321 00:16:40,330 --> 00:16:44,919 very close and see h- their philosophy and also see how successful they, 322 00:16:44,999 --> 00:16:49,239 they've been and they are- Mm ... showed me that there was a way to do both. 323 00:16:50,219 --> 00:16:56,109 So what we have to do is educate people, you know, on, on, on these things an- an- 324 00:16:56,139 --> 00:17:01,370 and also let them know that the fact is, is that the majority of the best riders 325 00:17:01,370 --> 00:17:07,090 in the world, and I'm not saying all, but a great majority, are great horsemen. 326 00:17:07,750 --> 00:17:11,340 Mm. You know, they live the life of a great horseman, and in my particular 327 00:17:11,340 --> 00:17:15,989 case, I would always admire, and like me, there's many others, because 328 00:17:15,989 --> 00:17:19,010 I've spoken to a lot of different riders and fans of the sport. 329 00:17:20,110 --> 00:17:25,799 I would always appreciate much more the horseman that has had 330 00:17:25,799 --> 00:17:30,579 success than the non-horseman that maybe won more classes or had more 331 00:17:30,579 --> 00:17:32,489 ribbons or had more Grand Prix wins. 332 00:17:32,569 --> 00:17:32,819 Mm-hmm. 333 00:17:32,870 --> 00:17:36,679 I will always cherish those moments from those horsemen, riders, 334 00:17:36,679 --> 00:17:39,959 and, and, and, and, and real, um, 335 00:17:42,849 --> 00:17:46,130 humans that practice the sport in this way that I love so much. 336 00:17:46,229 --> 00:17:46,579 Noelle: Mm-hmm 337 00:17:48,085 --> 00:17:51,725 Daniel: And, and those moments from tho- when those riders win still today, and 338 00:17:51,725 --> 00:17:55,475 they are in many ways obviously my direct competition, when, when these riders 339 00:17:55,475 --> 00:18:02,665 that I admire so much, these horsemen that are also riders win, I smile. 340 00:18:03,094 --> 00:18:03,264 Noelle: Yeah. 341 00:18:04,075 --> 00:18:04,534 Daniel: I like it. 342 00:18:05,005 --> 00:18:05,764 I'm their fan. 343 00:18:06,024 --> 00:18:07,675 You know, I, I want them to do well. 344 00:18:08,114 --> 00:18:11,395 You know, uh, when I'm in the r- go, when I'm going to compete 345 00:18:11,395 --> 00:18:19,215 against them, those guys and girls are the ones that I still fear. 346 00:18:19,875 --> 00:18:20,015 Mm-hmm. 347 00:18:20,015 --> 00:18:20,554 Put it that way. 348 00:18:20,745 --> 00:18:23,885 You know, like I, I, I see them, and I still see an idol. 349 00:18:24,454 --> 00:18:24,824 Noelle: Cool. 350 00:18:25,254 --> 00:18:27,024 Daniel: You know, and I will till the end of my things. 351 00:18:27,074 --> 00:18:31,135 The other ones that are maybe do a sport in a different way, that it's not 352 00:18:31,135 --> 00:18:33,315 my type of sport, yeah, they're there. 353 00:18:33,315 --> 00:18:34,394 If they win, cool. 354 00:18:34,445 --> 00:18:35,004 If they don't win- 355 00:18:35,245 --> 00:18:36,885 Noelle: But you don't celebrate them. 356 00:18:37,515 --> 00:18:39,304 Daniel: No, I don't admire this, that sport. 357 00:18:39,414 --> 00:18:39,635 You know? 358 00:18:39,635 --> 00:18:41,294 It's, it's just not the sport that I like. 359 00:18:41,454 --> 00:18:41,754 Noelle: Mm-hmm. 360 00:18:41,785 --> 00:18:42,004 Daniel: You know? 361 00:18:42,004 --> 00:18:48,774 Because the sport that I like always will put the horse first, no matter what. 362 00:18:48,984 --> 00:18:51,645 Above the result, the horse will always come first. 363 00:18:52,185 --> 00:18:57,194 And sure, you know, in the, in certain instances, you're gonna have to postpone 364 00:18:57,194 --> 00:19:01,904 gratification, sometimes too much, you know, sometimes to a point that you just 365 00:19:01,904 --> 00:19:04,844 postponed it all the way, and you never actually won with that horse because 366 00:19:04,844 --> 00:19:06,315 you wanted to do it the right way. 367 00:19:06,315 --> 00:19:08,594 You were... You know, and some horses just don't make it. 368 00:19:08,704 --> 00:19:08,954 You know? 369 00:19:09,014 --> 00:19:11,995 Don't... They, they're not good enough for that level in, in 370 00:19:11,995 --> 00:19:13,615 this, in this, in this system. 371 00:19:14,414 --> 00:19:18,395 But when they are, and, and you actually end up hitting those relationships, 372 00:19:18,395 --> 00:19:21,255 those horses, you establish those connections, and you actually start having 373 00:19:21,255 --> 00:19:22,795 success, now there's nothing like it. 374 00:19:23,164 --> 00:19:23,675 Noelle: Mm-hmm. 375 00:19:23,675 --> 00:19:26,694 Daniel: There's nothing like it, and the public also knows, and 376 00:19:26,694 --> 00:19:30,545 the horse lovers also understand, and they identify with this. 377 00:19:31,315 --> 00:19:37,444 So you can have, as a horseman, a career where you have 50% of the accolades of 378 00:19:38,304 --> 00:19:43,065 some other riders, yet if you do it the right way, you're gonna end up getting 379 00:19:43,664 --> 00:19:48,454 just the same results when it comes to business, when it comes to, to, to 380 00:19:48,484 --> 00:19:51,094 awareness, recognition, everything else. 381 00:19:51,094 --> 00:19:54,304 So, you know, at the end, everything plays out right. 382 00:19:54,655 --> 00:19:59,295 If you do it well, you might think that you're, you know, you're not gonna get 383 00:19:59,295 --> 00:20:03,095 at the end the gratification that some others are getting, but that's incorrect. 384 00:20:03,784 --> 00:20:06,334 If you stick your way and you do it the right way and, you know, 385 00:20:06,334 --> 00:20:10,575 you just, you stick, stay honest to your path, everything works in 386 00:20:10,575 --> 00:20:13,995 a way that you end up getting more than you ever dreamed you could get. 387 00:20:15,314 --> 00:20:18,155 Noelle: I want you... Okay, so I wanna take this opportunity in this moment 388 00:20:18,155 --> 00:20:23,125 to delineate between when you're talking about a horseman who happens 389 00:20:23,125 --> 00:20:28,485 to be a rider and a, a, a person who is a rider who's maybe not, who 390 00:20:28,485 --> 00:20:30,554 doesn't make horse-first decisions. 391 00:20:30,924 --> 00:20:35,394 I want you to explain in your words the difference so that everyone who's watching 392 00:20:35,394 --> 00:20:40,400 or listening to this episode Can really then can educate their eye and their 393 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,750 mind when they're listening to you and they're understanding that you're making 394 00:20:43,750 --> 00:20:45,749 a delineation between these two people. 395 00:20:46,430 --> 00:20:49,669 Daniel: Yeah, I think that the, the first part that is very important about this 396 00:20:49,669 --> 00:20:56,750 is to under- to, to, to understand that horsemanship is very complex, you know? 397 00:20:56,869 --> 00:20:59,890 Like, when, when, when you say you want to be a horseman or people 398 00:20:59,890 --> 00:21:03,939 use the term horseman, it sounds simple, yet it's very complex. 399 00:21:04,439 --> 00:21:07,849 You know, to be a horseman, you really have to have tremendous 400 00:21:07,890 --> 00:21:10,710 understanding of the horse as an animal. 401 00:21:11,089 --> 00:21:11,199 Noelle: Yeah. 402 00:21:11,850 --> 00:21:14,699 Daniel: Nothing to do with sport, just as an animal. 403 00:21:14,839 --> 00:21:16,400 What is best for the horse? 404 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:17,929 How do they eat? 405 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:19,710 How do they exercise? 406 00:21:19,710 --> 00:21:20,710 How do they sleep? 407 00:21:20,740 --> 00:21:22,220 How do they spend their time? 408 00:21:22,629 --> 00:21:23,850 What weather they like, you know. 409 00:21:24,269 --> 00:21:25,139 Noelle: How do they learn? 410 00:21:25,139 --> 00:21:25,319 How 411 00:21:25,319 --> 00:21:26,280 Daniel: do they learn? 412 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:26,839 How do they move on their feet? 413 00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:28,350 How do they interact with each other? 414 00:21:28,350 --> 00:21:28,589 Yep. 415 00:21:28,620 --> 00:21:29,839 How do their feet work? 416 00:21:29,839 --> 00:21:32,400 How do they recover from injury? 417 00:21:32,589 --> 00:21:34,199 You know, there is on and on and on. 418 00:21:34,199 --> 00:21:37,960 There's a ... It takes, first of all, it takes many years. 419 00:21:38,060 --> 00:21:38,120 Yeah. 420 00:21:38,659 --> 00:21:45,150 To become a good rider is way easier, way, way easier than it 421 00:21:45,150 --> 00:21:46,849 is to become a, a good horseman. 422 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:53,709 In fact, most of us will always be first good riders before we are good horsemen. 423 00:21:54,340 --> 00:21:57,480 The horseman will co- because it takes longer time, it takes more 424 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,169 time, it takes more experiences. 425 00:21:59,169 --> 00:22:03,099 It takes a lot of different factors that have to come in in order to get there. 426 00:22:03,700 --> 00:22:06,700 So there's the, the, the, the, the difference between 427 00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:07,630 one and the other, right? 428 00:22:08,090 --> 00:22:09,020 A horseman, 429 00:22:11,389 --> 00:22:14,420 or in order to be able to be the best horseman you can be, naturally you 430 00:22:14,420 --> 00:22:16,389 have to spend time with the horses. 431 00:22:16,619 --> 00:22:16,679 Yeah. 432 00:22:16,679 --> 00:22:18,809 You know, there's no way you can be a horseman if you're 433 00:22:18,809 --> 00:22:19,879 all the time in an airplane. 434 00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:22,940 You know, if you're, if you're traveling from one place to the next, one place to 435 00:22:22,940 --> 00:22:27,700 the next, it's very difficult to, to do your job as a horseman, put it that way. 436 00:22:27,929 --> 00:22:31,419 Because there's horsemen that became horsemen and then they made of their 437 00:22:31,419 --> 00:22:33,509 lives working, helping other people- 438 00:22:33,569 --> 00:22:33,800 Noelle: Yes 439 00:22:33,870 --> 00:22:34,710 Daniel: through their skills. 440 00:22:34,790 --> 00:22:34,970 Noelle: Yes. 441 00:22:35,390 --> 00:22:36,149 Daniel: They're already horsemen. 442 00:22:36,519 --> 00:22:41,669 But if you want to be a, a horseman and a rider at the same time, and 443 00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:44,180 be in the competition ring and be successful, if you wanna do it 444 00:22:44,180 --> 00:22:47,270 everything, then it takes balance. 445 00:22:47,649 --> 00:22:50,160 You know, it's, it's, it's, it's a package, you know, of, of 446 00:22:50,190 --> 00:22:51,419 the ... And you need to find it. 447 00:22:51,419 --> 00:22:52,949 You know, how much can you travel? 448 00:22:52,980 --> 00:22:54,390 How much do you have to stay at home? 449 00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:56,169 How many horses can you manage? 450 00:22:57,289 --> 00:22:59,949 Because if you have too many horses, you cannot give each, uh, enough 451 00:22:59,949 --> 00:23:01,329 attention to each of the horses. 452 00:23:01,460 --> 00:23:01,649 Noelle: Yeah. 453 00:23:01,719 --> 00:23:04,320 Daniel: If you have too many horses, that ne- means you need more employees. 454 00:23:04,820 --> 00:23:11,390 And every person that works in a barn needs to have a, a, a, a, 455 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,230 an understanding of their tasks. 456 00:23:13,570 --> 00:23:13,809 Noelle: Yeah. 457 00:23:14,090 --> 00:23:16,749 Daniel: I'm not gonna say everyone that works in each organization is a 458 00:23:16,749 --> 00:23:18,179 horseman, because that would be a lie. 459 00:23:18,670 --> 00:23:21,020 There's people that don't need to be horsemen in order to perform 460 00:23:21,020 --> 00:23:22,850 certain tasks in an organization. 461 00:23:23,459 --> 00:23:26,270 But when you have a, a strong organization, you 462 00:23:26,270 --> 00:23:27,509 cannot be the only horseman. 463 00:23:28,079 --> 00:23:30,810 Mm. You need to have other people that are, might not be riders, might 464 00:23:30,810 --> 00:23:35,700 not be, uh, uh, ring riders, but they're nonetheless amazing horsemen. 465 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,400 We have grooms that are incredible horsemen. 466 00:23:38,700 --> 00:23:41,850 We have riders that are home riders that are incredible horsemen. 467 00:23:42,109 --> 00:23:46,889 We have trainers that are incredible horsemen, yet never jumped a Grand Prix. 468 00:23:48,529 --> 00:23:48,849 Never. 469 00:23:49,090 --> 00:23:49,760 Not even close. 470 00:23:49,910 --> 00:23:51,590 Some of them never even showed- 471 00:23:52,169 --> 00:23:52,460 Noelle: Yeah 472 00:23:52,659 --> 00:23:53,740 ... Daniel: and they're great horsemen. 473 00:23:54,749 --> 00:23:57,390 You know, so there's the horseman aspect of it. 474 00:23:57,849 --> 00:24:01,109 Now, when you speak about riders, I mean, what is a good rider? 475 00:24:01,109 --> 00:24:04,480 A good rider is someone that can get on a horse- Mm-hmm ... and, and in the sport 476 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:10,490 of show jumping, uh, has the, the, the ability and, and, and the experience to 477 00:24:10,490 --> 00:24:14,280 go in the ring and, and get a result. 478 00:24:14,540 --> 00:24:17,760 You know, jump the fences clear and go fast. 479 00:24:18,019 --> 00:24:21,260 You know, it's, it's, it's as simple as that. 480 00:24:21,389 --> 00:24:21,560 Noelle: Yeah. 481 00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:25,280 Daniel: Um, and there's many, many, many people. 482 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,700 Many, many, many people that can ride a horse and have a nice 483 00:24:28,700 --> 00:24:31,420 position, have some feeling, and they can go fast in the jump off. 484 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:34,749 There's some better than others, naturally. 485 00:24:34,749 --> 00:24:38,010 You know, some have outstanding skills, you know, like, wow, look how they 486 00:24:38,010 --> 00:24:41,469 can turn, they can go fast, their position, natural position, strength, 487 00:24:41,469 --> 00:24:42,589 balance, you know, all these things. 488 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,670 And listen, super admirable anyways, you know. 489 00:24:45,700 --> 00:24:48,799 Like, who doesn't like to see a, a good rider in the ring? 490 00:24:48,829 --> 00:24:49,740 I think that's really cool. 491 00:24:50,049 --> 00:24:55,420 But in my view or how I enjoy the sport, I want to see the combination of both. 492 00:24:56,140 --> 00:24:56,670 I love that. 493 00:24:56,740 --> 00:25:00,710 It's just a personal... I don't judge anyone that sees it differently. 494 00:25:00,789 --> 00:25:02,789 It's just what I like, you know? 495 00:25:02,789 --> 00:25:09,159 And, and, and, uh, gratefully, uh, some of the best riders by ranking 496 00:25:09,189 --> 00:25:14,700 in the world are great horsemen, so I'm, I'm able to, to enjoy that. 497 00:25:15,670 --> 00:25:19,019 Noelle: Well, and maybe they're great-- You do, you do think that there's a 498 00:25:19,019 --> 00:25:24,589 correlation because in order to be great, you have to have endurance, and 499 00:25:24,589 --> 00:25:28,180 to have endurance, you have to have a bigger why than just to win, because 500 00:25:28,180 --> 00:25:33,259 we all know that if you're, if you're a top ranking show jumping rider, you're 501 00:25:33,259 --> 00:25:35,350 still gonna lose more times than you win. 502 00:25:35,380 --> 00:25:35,700 Yeah. 503 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:37,969 So you have to have a greater why. 504 00:25:38,579 --> 00:25:42,700 But I want you to describe, 'cause this is something that has come up in a lot 505 00:25:42,700 --> 00:25:46,720 of recent conversations we've had on the podcast, where you're watching a 506 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:51,220 rider in the arena and you can see the shift, and I know you know what I mean. 507 00:25:51,700 --> 00:25:57,190 You'll see the shift from putting the horse first to maybe becoming a bit more 508 00:25:57,190 --> 00:26:02,489 of a showman or asking beyond what that horse is capable of doing because they 509 00:26:02,830 --> 00:26:06,360 are getting maybe caught up in the moment. 510 00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:06,649 Daniel: Yeah. 511 00:26:07,289 --> 00:26:09,170 Noelle: And this happens not just in show jumping, it happens in 512 00:26:09,170 --> 00:26:10,270 lots of different horse sports. 513 00:26:10,690 --> 00:26:14,119 And the, the more refined your eye becomes, the more you can start to see 514 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,619 that shift, and sometimes it happens right at the beginning or before 515 00:26:16,619 --> 00:26:17,959 that rider even enters the arena. 516 00:26:18,289 --> 00:26:23,209 Sometimes it happens on course or during, during s- like a 517 00:26:23,209 --> 00:26:24,229 demonstration, for example. 518 00:26:24,229 --> 00:26:24,429 Yeah. 519 00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:28,869 I would love for you, from your perspective, because I love the way 520 00:26:28,869 --> 00:26:32,979 that you explain this, the way you articulate this, I would love for you 521 00:26:32,979 --> 00:26:39,299 to explain to our listeners What is happening inside the rider's mind? 522 00:26:39,420 --> 00:26:40,800 Because you know what I mean. 523 00:26:40,829 --> 00:26:40,960 Yeah. 524 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,449 When you're making a decision that's in the best interest of the horse, 525 00:26:43,740 --> 00:26:46,670 or you're making a decision that's in the best interest of the moment. 526 00:26:46,749 --> 00:26:46,930 Daniel: Yeah. 527 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,029 Look, it, it's, it's, it's obviously very hard. 528 00:26:51,369 --> 00:26:55,980 I mean, you're dealing with, uh, with a lot of human emotions, um, 529 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:02,349 and circumstances obviously, because, uh, we're, we're jumping, uh, some 530 00:27:02,349 --> 00:27:04,119 horses that we don't own ourselves. 531 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:04,500 Mm-hmm. 532 00:27:04,730 --> 00:27:07,669 Um, we're jumping for a lot of prize money. 533 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,399 Uh, you're jumping for recognition. 534 00:27:11,879 --> 00:27:17,020 So in a moment, you have to make, uh, decisions, you know, of, of what you're 535 00:27:17,020 --> 00:27:21,800 going to do, and I don't think that a- an- anyone gets them always right. 536 00:27:22,899 --> 00:27:30,750 Um, I do think that some of us have our North Star, as I say, very, 537 00:27:30,750 --> 00:27:36,439 very c- very clear, so we make the right decision most of the times. 538 00:27:36,439 --> 00:27:39,369 And by right decision, I don't mean the decision that ended up being, 539 00:27:39,419 --> 00:27:41,250 being the winner of the class. 540 00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:44,360 I mean the decision that was what was right for the horse. 541 00:27:46,350 --> 00:27:48,060 But it is very hard, you know, I... 542 00:27:48,060 --> 00:27:51,380 And, and I understand it because I live it, and that's why I am not too 543 00:27:51,380 --> 00:27:56,329 harsh to judge, uh, others when, when they make the wrong decision because I 544 00:27:56,329 --> 00:27:58,359 understand what they're going through. 545 00:27:59,140 --> 00:28:06,580 What I don't appreciate is some that make the wrong decision too many times, you 546 00:28:06,580 --> 00:28:10,339 know, some that make the wrong decision knowing they're making the wrong decision. 547 00:28:10,980 --> 00:28:13,640 Noelle: Like despite the fact that they know better- They know 548 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:14,779 better ... they don't do better. 549 00:28:14,830 --> 00:28:18,499 Daniel: Because we can make the wrong decision out of ignorance, which 550 00:28:18,499 --> 00:28:21,839 is normal, lack of experience, lack of information, lack of, of knowing 551 00:28:21,839 --> 00:28:24,289 what you're doing, and, you know, we cannot blame someone for that. 552 00:28:24,289 --> 00:28:25,019 It's part of life. 553 00:28:25,019 --> 00:28:26,560 You learn by making mistakes. 554 00:28:28,220 --> 00:28:33,530 But when you make the mistakes, or what I call mistakes, knowing what you're 555 00:28:33,530 --> 00:28:40,370 doing and knowing what comes after that, I lose a little bit of respect for you. 556 00:28:41,019 --> 00:28:44,670 You know, that's, that's, that's just, it's just how it is, you know? 557 00:28:44,769 --> 00:28:48,789 And, and, uh, I keep it to myself, you know, like it's, uh, we're not 558 00:28:48,789 --> 00:28:52,460 here to, to discuss what the other one is doing right or doing wrong. 559 00:28:52,509 --> 00:28:54,009 It's none of my business anyways. 560 00:28:54,399 --> 00:28:58,780 But in the other hand, I can appreciate the ones that do it right and yet 561 00:28:58,780 --> 00:29:00,799 have a lot of success, you know? 562 00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:05,369 And, and, and those for me are idols, you know, like, uh, uh, and just throw 563 00:29:05,369 --> 00:29:09,320 some names out there of people that I think about a lot and are always, like, 564 00:29:09,350 --> 00:29:11,409 really competitive and, and winning. 565 00:29:11,409 --> 00:29:14,990 I mean, Steve Guerdat, you know, Kent Farrington, you know, guys 566 00:29:14,990 --> 00:29:19,170 that are oriented for their horses, build relationships, you know, are 567 00:29:19,170 --> 00:29:24,269 super, super cautious of how they manage their horses and what they do. 568 00:29:24,699 --> 00:29:29,189 Um, you know, I had the opportunity to actually go just for, for a few 569 00:29:29,189 --> 00:29:31,960 hours, uh, to Peder Fredricson's place. 570 00:29:32,140 --> 00:29:32,479 Noelle: Mm-hmm 571 00:29:32,910 --> 00:29:34,099 Daniel: Loved every side of it Isn't 572 00:29:34,099 --> 00:29:35,139 Noelle: it the, I mean- 573 00:29:35,139 --> 00:29:36,709 Daniel: Like, it's just gorgeous. 574 00:29:36,709 --> 00:29:38,229 It's just horse-oriented. 575 00:29:38,229 --> 00:29:42,640 It's just how he, how he goes about the day, how the horses go about the day. 576 00:29:42,909 --> 00:29:45,930 It's just, you know, th- this is super cool. 577 00:29:46,150 --> 00:29:46,239 Yeah. 578 00:29:46,239 --> 00:29:49,099 You know, when you see some riders that have that amount, and I'm sh- I'm not 579 00:29:49,099 --> 00:29:51,730 mentioning many others, like, hey, I'm just throwing some names out there. 580 00:29:51,759 --> 00:29:51,929 Yeah. 581 00:29:51,990 --> 00:29:57,279 There's many, many that I have huge respect for and admire immensely. 582 00:29:57,970 --> 00:30:00,259 I'm just, just throwing some out there that just came to mind right 583 00:30:00,259 --> 00:30:01,609 now or that I think about often. 584 00:30:02,170 --> 00:30:07,079 But this is cool, you know, because it shows you that there are ways 585 00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:08,559 that you can have a lot of success- 586 00:30:08,809 --> 00:30:09,189 Noelle: Mm-hmm 587 00:30:09,219 --> 00:30:14,989 ... Daniel: and still always keep thinking about what is the best for the horse. 588 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,969 And on that line, you know, not, not to get too much into it, I think that 589 00:30:19,969 --> 00:30:23,329 we also have a responsibility not only to the best horses that we ride, 590 00:30:23,610 --> 00:30:25,279 also to the other horses, you know? 591 00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:28,910 Like, there are some horses that maybe are not, and I say it often, they're 592 00:30:28,910 --> 00:30:31,790 not good enough for the high-level sport for us, but they for sure 593 00:30:31,790 --> 00:30:33,320 can be very good for someone else. 594 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:33,820 Yeah. 595 00:30:33,919 --> 00:30:37,789 You know, so for me, that's something personal. 596 00:30:38,030 --> 00:30:41,999 You know, when, in any... And we have a big network now, big family, big business, 597 00:30:41,999 --> 00:30:43,689 a lot of horses in all different levels. 598 00:30:44,340 --> 00:30:47,800 Any horse that goes through our, any of our organizations, regardless of 599 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:52,240 their level, has to be treated the way the horses need to be treated. 600 00:30:52,420 --> 00:30:55,210 Mm. You know, they need to h- eat properly. 601 00:30:55,210 --> 00:30:56,819 They need to spend time outside. 602 00:30:56,819 --> 00:30:58,590 You know, they, everything needs to be done right. 603 00:30:59,079 --> 00:31:03,980 And what happens to them after they come to our barn is very important to us. 604 00:31:03,980 --> 00:31:05,109 Do we have full control? 605 00:31:05,219 --> 00:31:05,910 Obviously not. 606 00:31:06,259 --> 00:31:10,509 But to as much as we can, we would like the horses that sell, that go to other 607 00:31:10,509 --> 00:31:12,700 places, to go to the right places. 608 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:13,200 Noelle: Mm-hmm. 609 00:31:13,579 --> 00:31:17,200 Daniel: Because I feel that when you do that, you're paying forward. 610 00:31:17,460 --> 00:31:22,539 And, and the, the, the horse, uh, god or the horse- ... energy 611 00:31:22,539 --> 00:31:23,850 or whatever you wanna call it- 612 00:31:24,039 --> 00:31:24,480 Noelle: Yes ... is 613 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:25,429 Daniel: gonna give it back to you. 614 00:31:25,719 --> 00:31:26,929 Noelle: God, I love that. 615 00:31:26,929 --> 00:31:27,050 You know? 616 00:31:27,079 --> 00:31:32,060 Daniel: So I, I think that we have that responsibility, not only to 617 00:31:32,060 --> 00:31:35,359 our horses, but any of the horses that are around us, and to share the 618 00:31:35,359 --> 00:31:40,090 message to the younger generations and whoever wants to hear, because 619 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:41,779 that's really the beauty of what we do. 620 00:31:42,410 --> 00:31:43,839 That's really the beauty of what we do. 621 00:31:43,939 --> 00:31:50,600 You know, I've had the opportunity to meet some, uh, adult riders that started 622 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:57,010 riding late in life, and what they feel for those horses and what they feel 623 00:31:57,010 --> 00:32:00,370 for the sport is just simply beautiful. 624 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:00,820 Yeah. 625 00:32:01,109 --> 00:32:06,139 You know, how and what they would be willing to do for their horse, 626 00:32:07,070 --> 00:32:08,600 that some of them don't even jump. 627 00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:10,040 I mean, they barely trot or canter. 628 00:32:10,910 --> 00:32:12,219 This is beautiful. 629 00:32:12,219 --> 00:32:14,010 That is the magic of our animal. 630 00:32:14,449 --> 00:32:14,969 Noelle: Mm. 631 00:32:14,969 --> 00:32:18,439 Daniel: Especially in this country, that is so expensive. 632 00:32:18,439 --> 00:32:22,100 You know, in America, to own a horse, and there's no secret to anyone, in 633 00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:25,079 any level, even if you just have it as a trail horse, it's expensive. 634 00:32:25,339 --> 00:32:25,490 Noelle: It is. 635 00:32:25,490 --> 00:32:25,729 Because 636 00:32:25,729 --> 00:32:27,540 Daniel: the vets are expensive, everything's expensive. 637 00:32:28,150 --> 00:32:32,700 And people are willing to make the effort Of pay what it costs to upkeep 638 00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:38,200 a horse because they love it so much, and that just shows you the power of 639 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,000 the connection between horse and human. 640 00:32:40,599 --> 00:32:41,340 That's amazing. 641 00:32:41,340 --> 00:32:43,859 I mean, you don't see this on anything else. 642 00:32:43,889 --> 00:32:46,340 I mean, obviously with our dogs, we're willing to do everything, 643 00:32:46,340 --> 00:32:50,469 or our pets, but, you know, with these horses and keeping them up and 644 00:32:50,469 --> 00:32:53,559 taking care of them, I mean, it's just so much, yet we do it with joy. 645 00:32:53,879 --> 00:32:54,070 Noelle: Yeah. 646 00:32:54,740 --> 00:32:58,029 I think we are, I think, I mean, we're, you and I are biased, but I 647 00:32:58,029 --> 00:33:05,340 do think that horse people are this really special group of people in 648 00:33:05,340 --> 00:33:09,859 the population of humanity because I think we have this s- really beautiful 649 00:33:09,859 --> 00:33:13,789 connection to nature, this really beauti- beautiful interspecies relationship. 650 00:33:14,119 --> 00:33:17,299 But also, when we wake up every morning and we know exactly 651 00:33:17,299 --> 00:33:18,329 what we're meant to do- Yeah 652 00:33:18,329 --> 00:33:22,109 and we have a purpose, and we know exactly how we wanna move through the world, 653 00:33:22,109 --> 00:33:25,330 and that we have goals until the day we die- Yeah ... because horses are- Are 654 00:33:25,330 --> 00:33:26,699 there ... it's a lifelong pursuit, right? 655 00:33:26,699 --> 00:33:27,039 For sure. 656 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,830 But I wanna go back because I, this is the fir- and no one could have told me 657 00:33:31,830 --> 00:33:36,029 that I was gonna talk about good horse karma with Daniel Bluman on the podcast. 658 00:33:36,029 --> 00:33:38,869 This makes me... I mean, I've, I, you know, we've known each other a long time, 659 00:33:39,430 --> 00:33:43,829 and I always have just won- wonderfully rewarding conversations with you. 660 00:33:44,209 --> 00:33:49,509 But I'm so excited that here on the podcast, Daniel Bluman is talking about 661 00:33:49,509 --> 00:33:54,639 good horse karma, paying it forward, that the horse go- like, I love this idea. 662 00:33:54,639 --> 00:33:58,049 It doesn't, and it, you know, it can be as, as woo as you like, but 663 00:33:58,049 --> 00:33:59,750 I love that you think that way. 664 00:34:00,410 --> 00:34:03,360 Like, I really want everyone to hear that, that you think that way, that you 665 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:08,389 believe that if you care for the horses that you've had in your barn or w- in your 666 00:34:09,190 --> 00:34:13,580 family and in your program, if you care about what happens to them afterwards, 667 00:34:13,580 --> 00:34:18,010 that you believe that that, like the, the, that you, that there's a good karma 668 00:34:18,010 --> 00:34:21,570 around that, that the horse gods, like, or whatever it means, that the collective 669 00:34:21,570 --> 00:34:26,150 consciousness of horses, that they will somehow, that it will come back to you. 670 00:34:27,489 --> 00:34:27,739 Daniel: Yeah. 671 00:34:27,769 --> 00:34:30,979 I mean, look, I'm gonna tell you a, a very short story because it's 672 00:34:30,979 --> 00:34:32,379 something that marked me forever. 673 00:34:32,540 --> 00:34:36,529 In, in our farm, on a horse farm, nothing to do with sport, it was just 674 00:34:36,529 --> 00:34:40,070 horses in the mountains, the trail to work with the cows and whatever back 675 00:34:40,070 --> 00:34:46,979 in Colombia, someone, I would imagine was my uncle or someone, um, printed 676 00:34:46,979 --> 00:34:51,279 something or bought something and put in the wall, and in Spanish it's, I'm 677 00:34:51,279 --> 00:34:54,479 saying the name in Spanish, it was Plegaria del Caballo, which if you 678 00:34:54,510 --> 00:34:58,769 try to print, translate, it's like the wishes of the horse is, or the horse's 679 00:34:58,769 --> 00:35:00,989 wish, something, something like that. 680 00:35:01,729 --> 00:35:04,470 And just to summarize what it said, it was pretty much telling 681 00:35:04,470 --> 00:35:06,110 you the horse is speaking to you. 682 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:11,729 So this thing that is in writing, the horse is speaking to us, and he's 683 00:35:11,729 --> 00:35:15,380 telling us, um, "I will serve you. 684 00:35:15,970 --> 00:35:20,779 I will do what you ask from me, and all I ask in return is that you feed me, 685 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:26,839 that you take care of me, and that when I am weak and can no longer do it, you 686 00:35:26,839 --> 00:35:32,019 allow me to retire with dignity and- In the point that I then I'm too weak 687 00:35:32,499 --> 00:35:37,200 to even continue living, you recognize that it is my time to go, you know? 688 00:35:38,079 --> 00:35:42,240 And as a young child and still my, like, I, it just s- feels, it, 689 00:35:42,270 --> 00:35:44,549 it's something I feel too much, you know, when I think about it. 690 00:35:44,839 --> 00:35:47,340 Because I was so young when I was reading it and I was trying to 691 00:35:47,340 --> 00:35:49,400 understand what that meant, you know? 692 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,109 Like, what is the horse really trying to tell me there, you know? 693 00:35:53,109 --> 00:35:56,939 And as I grew older and I got to understand more and more and learn 694 00:35:56,939 --> 00:35:58,640 more and more, it, it all made sense. 695 00:35:59,150 --> 00:36:02,940 You know, so this is part of what I live for, you know what I mean? 696 00:36:03,019 --> 00:36:08,399 And, and when you really understand the horses, you understand 697 00:36:08,780 --> 00:36:10,080 really what the horse wants. 698 00:36:10,330 --> 00:36:12,099 And the horse wants is not what you want. 699 00:36:12,559 --> 00:36:16,380 And sometimes you'd be confused even you, "But I think this is the best for 700 00:36:16,380 --> 00:36:18,700 the horse." And you're really coming from the right place in your heart. 701 00:36:18,729 --> 00:36:21,799 You know, "I think that the horse wouldn't want this." But you have to understand, 702 00:36:21,799 --> 00:36:23,419 horses are not humans, they're horses. 703 00:36:24,060 --> 00:36:25,929 You know, horses need to live like horses live. 704 00:36:26,460 --> 00:36:27,739 You know, horses need to be horses. 705 00:36:27,739 --> 00:36:29,509 Like paddocks, for example, I mean. 706 00:36:29,509 --> 00:36:32,489 And I understand, I have a lot of colleagues and people that I know, their 707 00:36:32,489 --> 00:36:33,810 horses don't go out in the paddock. 708 00:36:33,859 --> 00:36:36,429 You know, maybe they get injured, they're afraid something could happen. 709 00:36:36,429 --> 00:36:37,650 And sure, it, something can happen. 710 00:36:37,679 --> 00:36:39,889 But some- something also can happen in their stall, also when 711 00:36:39,889 --> 00:36:43,310 you ride them, also when you're in a jump off, also in many things. 712 00:36:43,609 --> 00:36:48,029 But horses are animals that like to be outside, you know? 713 00:36:48,029 --> 00:36:48,200 Yeah. 714 00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:49,389 That is, that is the nature of it. 715 00:36:49,389 --> 00:36:51,790 So that, that just as one example. 716 00:36:52,109 --> 00:36:56,720 Other examples, you know, horses, as they're getting older and, and, you 717 00:36:56,720 --> 00:37:01,609 know, they can, they are really just too old to, to be around anymore, people 718 00:37:01,659 --> 00:37:03,639 don't wanna just let them go, you know? 719 00:37:03,639 --> 00:37:06,679 You got, you have to understand there's a point in life, in nature 720 00:37:07,010 --> 00:37:09,100 that our existence here is expired. 721 00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:09,740 Noelle: Yeah. 722 00:37:10,049 --> 00:37:10,589 Daniel: You know what I mean? 723 00:37:10,639 --> 00:37:14,069 And I, I, and that's just one more of the very difficult decisions 724 00:37:14,069 --> 00:37:15,520 that we as horsemen have to make. 725 00:37:16,249 --> 00:37:19,059 Sometimes you have to do what you have to do- 726 00:37:19,620 --> 00:37:19,819 Noelle: Yeah 727 00:37:19,870 --> 00:37:22,370 ... Daniel: for the horse, you know, because this is just the way that 728 00:37:22,370 --> 00:37:24,559 the horse life goes, you know? 729 00:37:24,559 --> 00:37:27,830 And it goes the same with every other little decision that we're making 730 00:37:27,830 --> 00:37:29,230 when we're them, we're with them. 731 00:37:29,459 --> 00:37:33,790 They're, they, like, as Steve says very often, they don't decide in 732 00:37:33,790 --> 00:37:34,980 what class they're going to show. 733 00:37:35,580 --> 00:37:38,029 We choose what class they're going to jump. 734 00:37:38,559 --> 00:37:41,749 So we have a huge responsibility with the horse. 735 00:37:42,529 --> 00:37:43,620 Put it in the right class. 736 00:37:44,599 --> 00:37:45,790 Put it where it should jump. 737 00:37:46,300 --> 00:37:49,840 You know, put it where it can perform, where it can perform for many years. 738 00:37:50,129 --> 00:37:54,470 Where i- if one year after a few, it's not performing at that level 739 00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:58,569 anymore for a variety of reasons, maybe it needs to jump in another level. 740 00:37:58,569 --> 00:38:02,190 Now it's time to jump smaller or don't jump at all, you know? 741 00:38:02,190 --> 00:38:04,819 But when you're horse conscious and you make these conscious 742 00:38:04,819 --> 00:38:07,550 decisions, horse karma happens. 743 00:38:07,550 --> 00:38:09,520 They will give it back to you. 744 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,730 And if it's not that horse, it will be another one, because it becomes a habit. 745 00:38:14,970 --> 00:38:16,229 You start making better decisions. 746 00:38:16,229 --> 00:38:16,699 Like a muscle. 747 00:38:16,910 --> 00:38:17,080 Yeah. 748 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,050 You're just doing it. 749 00:38:18,050 --> 00:38:18,669 You're just doing it. 750 00:38:18,669 --> 00:38:19,559 You're just doing it right. 751 00:38:19,559 --> 00:38:21,949 Horse after horse, horse after horse, horse after horse. 752 00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:28,089 And then suddenly comes a horse into your life that has the talent, has the, the, 753 00:38:28,089 --> 00:38:32,820 the physical ability- Has the health, and then with all of these great practices 754 00:38:32,820 --> 00:38:37,869 that you've accumulated by doing things correctly, that horse, wow, explodes. 755 00:38:37,869 --> 00:38:41,430 And then suddenly you have one of those horses that are winning week 756 00:38:41,430 --> 00:38:46,069 after week, that the fans love, that people want to see, that people are 757 00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:50,139 following, and then all of these things that I tell you that every human 758 00:38:50,139 --> 00:38:53,130 being or most human beings want some recognition, it just happens naturally. 759 00:38:53,930 --> 00:38:55,229 But you were not thinking about that. 760 00:38:55,229 --> 00:38:58,159 You were thinking about just doing... Y- you gotta treat every horse 761 00:38:58,159 --> 00:38:59,889 right, is pretty much the message. 762 00:38:59,999 --> 00:39:03,499 Every horse that comes in front of you, you have to treat it right, 763 00:39:03,499 --> 00:39:07,700 with respect, and with, with, if not love, uh, with empathy. 764 00:39:08,650 --> 00:39:12,950 Mm. If you do that, the horses will give back to you. 765 00:39:14,189 --> 00:39:17,970 One of those horses that you treated with love, that you treated with empathy, 766 00:39:17,970 --> 00:39:22,680 that you treated with respect, is going to turn out to be special athlete. 767 00:39:23,139 --> 00:39:23,200 Yeah. 768 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:30,159 And that special athlete, together with what you've nurtured, becomes a superstar. 769 00:39:31,180 --> 00:39:32,450 And that's what I believe. 770 00:39:32,619 --> 00:39:35,159 And, you know, and, and if someone has a different philosophy or 771 00:39:35,159 --> 00:39:38,000 something, I don't wanna hear it because I like what I believe. 772 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:38,500 You know? 773 00:39:38,689 --> 00:39:38,789 So, 774 00:39:39,329 --> 00:39:39,750 Noelle: so I just 775 00:39:39,750 --> 00:39:41,090 Daniel: wanna keep believing that. 776 00:39:41,299 --> 00:39:43,799 Noelle: I, I wanna acknowledge what you're talking about is the 777 00:39:43,799 --> 00:39:45,750 antithesis of objectification. 778 00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:46,850 Do you know what I mean when I say that? 779 00:39:47,049 --> 00:39:47,280 Daniel: Yeah.