WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.889 Frank: You're listening to A Very Spatial Podcast, episode 735, April 7th, 2024. 00:00:07.909 --> 00:00:09.509 Jesse: Hello, welcome to A VerySpatial Podcast. 00:00:09.509 --> 00:00:09.979 I'm Jesse. 00:00:10.329 --> 00:00:10.899 Sue: I'm Sue. 00:00:11.899 --> 00:00:12.479 Barb: I'm Barb. 00:00:12.539 --> 00:00:13.229 Frank: And this is Frank. 00:00:13.709 --> 00:00:15.909 Jesse: And this week we're going to be talking about some 00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:18.180 stuff, but first, some news. 00:00:19.354 --> 00:00:23.144 Barb: Researchers from the University of Bonsaro, Munich have been able 00:00:23.144 --> 00:00:29.675 to create a height map for a 3D city using just one single radar image. 00:00:30.124 --> 00:00:33.874 This is something that they plan to use for quick disaster response and planning. 00:00:34.204 --> 00:00:38.274 It's still not perfect, but it is a way to quickly respond to 00:00:38.274 --> 00:00:40.414 humanitarian aid in the future. 00:00:41.619 --> 00:00:44.279 Sue: I think this is, you know, creating 3d maps and 00:00:44.349 --> 00:00:46.049 recognizing how valuable they are. 00:00:46.049 --> 00:00:49.619 But the gold standard using LIDAR is really expensive 00:00:49.619 --> 00:00:50.649 and not everybody can do it. 00:00:50.649 --> 00:00:53.649 So this particular imagery used a SAR data. 00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:57.629 So synthetic aperture radar data and potentially this means. 00:00:57.994 --> 00:01:01.934 A way to do some of these projects without having to always 00:01:01.934 --> 00:01:03.704 go in for the expensive LIDAR. 00:01:03.734 --> 00:01:06.054 So a lot of places can't, can't actually afford that. 00:01:06.054 --> 00:01:07.394 So I think it's really interesting. 00:01:07.444 --> 00:01:11.284 Frank: Yeah, the cool thing is it happens very quickly, which is as they note for 00:01:11.354 --> 00:01:15.974 emergency response, you can use a SAR captured image that had been captured 00:01:15.974 --> 00:01:19.804 in the last day, week, month, whatever it may be to quickly get something 00:01:19.814 --> 00:01:23.294 developed because they're basically leveraging AI machine learning to do 00:01:23.294 --> 00:01:24.954 it, which is, you know, Really neat. 00:01:24.954 --> 00:01:30.764 Barb: So university researchers in the SAHEL region are working with the IAEA. 00:01:31.344 --> 00:01:36.044 That's the international atomic energy agency to use isotopes 00:01:36.164 --> 00:01:37.904 to start mapping groundwater. 00:01:38.184 --> 00:01:40.934 This is pretty cool cause it's going to allow them to get a lot 00:01:40.934 --> 00:01:45.474 more information on rivers, lakes, and the underground aquifers. 00:01:46.254 --> 00:01:50.504 Sue: And of course with climate change with all kinds of other pressures and 00:01:50.514 --> 00:01:55.304 water demand growing this is a huge issue in the Sahel region of Africa. 00:01:55.304 --> 00:01:58.214 If you're not sure that this is the area to the southern borders 00:01:58.254 --> 00:02:03.464 of the Sahara desert where that environment transitions well, okay. 00:02:03.934 --> 00:02:06.324 I can't remember what it transitions into all of a sudden. 00:02:06.324 --> 00:02:11.594 Jesse: Well, the northern grasslands that butt up against the I was going 00:02:11.594 --> 00:02:14.134 to say uplands, but that's only on the eastern side, so that's my bad. 00:02:14.214 --> 00:02:17.424 And actually, it doesn't really impact the uplands as much because of, 00:02:17.424 --> 00:02:19.814 orographic lifting and the Never mind. 00:02:20.534 --> 00:02:20.754 Sue: Anyway. 00:02:21.429 --> 00:02:23.649 my my regional geography left me for a second 00:02:25.459 --> 00:02:28.909 Barb: What's really interesting is this is a transboundary partnership, and as 00:02:28.909 --> 00:02:30.599 we know, water doesn't have boundaries. 00:02:31.109 --> 00:02:35.719 So they're going to be able to build on connecting everyone's data from 00:02:35.719 --> 00:02:37.729 previous work into building this. 00:02:39.899 --> 00:02:42.979 Frank: I like the fact that you're using isotope hydrology, which just 00:02:42.989 --> 00:02:45.219 sounds cool no matter what you're doing. 00:02:47.499 --> 00:02:49.209 Jesse: just by putting isotope in front of it. 00:02:49.969 --> 00:02:50.809 Frank: I think so. 00:02:50.899 --> 00:02:53.149 I think, I think it's like a hydro spanner. 00:02:53.209 --> 00:02:53.874 You know, it just, it's cool. 00:02:54.244 --> 00:02:55.604 Sounds cooler than it really is. 00:02:56.489 --> 00:02:59.939 Jesse: Also, things that people should be mindful of, not necessarily news 00:02:59.939 --> 00:03:05.219 items, but for those folks who are in high school going into college, and 00:03:05.219 --> 00:03:08.639 those people who are in college, and those people who are in grad school. 00:03:09.489 --> 00:03:17.019 The annual Geoint, sorry, specifically USGIF, US Geospatial 00:03:17.019 --> 00:03:18.069 Intelligence Foundation. 00:03:18.579 --> 00:03:24.749 Scholarships are open and Have been since January, but there do may something 00:03:24.749 --> 00:03:27.499 and maybe May 31st, but check the website to make sure it's coming up. 00:03:27.719 --> 00:03:30.439 Sue: So, so now it's the time to, if you're going to do 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:31.389 it, really think about it. 00:03:31.689 --> 00:03:32.669 If you've not already done so. 00:03:32.749 --> 00:03:33.079 Jesse: Yeah. 00:03:33.169 --> 00:03:34.429 And we know people who have gotten them. 00:03:34.429 --> 00:03:36.639 You you know, it is for the USGIF. 00:03:37.049 --> 00:03:41.269 So you think it's GeoINT but they do look at geospatial broadly. 00:03:41.269 --> 00:03:47.929 So any way that you're creating new ways of understanding geographic information, 00:03:48.379 --> 00:03:54.479 geospatial information, , geospatial intelligence information, any of those 00:03:54.489 --> 00:03:56.299 fall under what they're looking for. 00:03:56.299 --> 00:04:02.109 So again, it's one of those where it's always better to apply and, you know, 00:04:02.139 --> 00:04:07.579 be in the running than if you qualify. 00:04:08.404 --> 00:04:11.584 Barb: I was looking to see, cause I think the NASA develop is also 00:04:11.964 --> 00:04:13.814 still open or might've just closed. 00:04:14.269 --> 00:04:14.889 Jesse: And what is that? 00:04:15.494 --> 00:04:21.684 Barb: It is similar in that it is a geospatial internship with NASA. 00:04:22.084 --> 00:04:24.854 We know several people that have done that and worked with them. 00:04:24.854 --> 00:04:27.494 It's an interdisciplinary program that focuses on earth 00:04:27.494 --> 00:04:29.034 science and earth observation. 00:04:30.089 --> 00:04:31.699 And it's open to U. 00:04:31.699 --> 00:04:31.809 S. 00:04:31.819 --> 00:04:33.359 Citizens and non citizens. 00:04:34.359 --> 00:04:37.079 Jesse: And of course, if you're interested in REUs, it's too late. 00:04:37.479 --> 00:04:39.469 Almost all other deadlines have closed by now. 00:04:39.469 --> 00:04:42.139 So keep that in mind for next year and you can look for research 00:04:42.519 --> 00:04:44.479 experience for undergraduates. 00:04:44.529 --> 00:04:47.239 Frank: So another thing in the news, which is very important to at least 00:04:47.239 --> 00:04:51.909 half of VerySpatial, is that researchers are now predicting that in the 00:04:51.909 --> 00:04:54.814 United States, the Atlantic hurricane season is going to be pretty bad. 00:04:54.994 --> 00:04:57.614 Probably much worse than it normally is. 00:04:57.994 --> 00:05:02.764 They're forecasting up to 23 named storms, which is normal, 00:05:02.884 --> 00:05:04.564 which is 50 percent above normal. 00:05:04.564 --> 00:05:08.374 So normally it's about 14 or so named storms and 11 hurricanes. 00:05:08.724 --> 00:05:14.694 That's a lot what's driving this is essentially what everyone knows 00:05:14.694 --> 00:05:18.994 about or should know about is sea warming temperatures that are 00:05:19.084 --> 00:05:22.034 ridiculously high compared to how they have been in the past and they 00:05:22.034 --> 00:05:23.654 just keep getting worse and worse. 00:05:23.664 --> 00:05:28.324 That in and of itself is not sufficient to generate this degree of uptick. 00:05:28.624 --> 00:05:30.674 You also have low wind shear, which is. 00:05:31.909 --> 00:05:35.919 Something that basically destroys storms as they, as they form. 00:05:35.929 --> 00:05:40.689 So basically the, the heated seas are going to make them more likely to form. 00:05:40.689 --> 00:05:44.599 And then normal wind shear would make them, would make, cut a lot of them 00:05:44.599 --> 00:05:46.269 off before they got anything of note. 00:05:46.299 --> 00:05:51.699 But since it's low wind shear for various reasons, it's unlikely that 00:05:51.699 --> 00:05:56.529 they're going to, you know, the number of those storms that come out. 00:05:56.629 --> 00:05:57.019 So 00:05:57.419 --> 00:05:57.739 Jesse: Yeah. 00:05:57.809 --> 00:05:59.939 Kind of expected this with a La Niña year. 00:06:00.529 --> 00:06:04.619 So La Niña years generally have a few more hurricanes. 00:06:04.909 --> 00:06:07.979 And so we're kind of waiting to see what happens. 00:06:07.989 --> 00:06:12.000 That was Colorado . State's yes, I believe, yes, Colorado state, Colorado 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:15.950 state or Colorado Springs their model, and there'll be a few other ones 00:06:15.950 --> 00:06:17.300 that come out in the near future. 00:06:17.300 --> 00:06:17.770 But that's. 00:06:18.470 --> 00:06:23.250 That's kind of the go to most years does fairly well, and they'll do an update. 00:06:23.670 --> 00:06:26.430 As we start getting more into the season in early June, but. 00:06:26.915 --> 00:06:27.225 Sue: Yes. 00:06:27.285 --> 00:06:30.765 And there are some other factors that, that come into play as well to see. 00:06:31.035 --> 00:06:35.975 So one of the ones I always I'm interested to see the, the kind of forecasts and 00:06:35.985 --> 00:06:41.385 observations of is the Saharan dust clouds that come across the Atlantic and stuff. 00:06:42.315 --> 00:06:46.285 I find that they often throw a wrench in the works, dampen stuff down. 00:06:46.775 --> 00:06:51.095 Jesse: Which because of El Nino last year, there should be more dry 00:06:51.125 --> 00:06:53.645 conditions and large portions of. 00:06:54.675 --> 00:06:58.805 That area, which could potentially lead to more dust, but we don't know. 00:06:58.865 --> 00:07:01.115 It depends on the strength of the winds bringing it out. 00:07:01.305 --> 00:07:05.325 So without the wind shear, you may not get the lift of the, you 00:07:05.325 --> 00:07:07.525 may not get the aeolian activity. 00:07:08.005 --> 00:07:08.625 Yeah, lots of things. 00:07:08.865 --> 00:07:09.485 We'll be ready though. 00:07:09.515 --> 00:07:13.705 We have our, our remote learning plans in place that we must all 00:07:13.705 --> 00:07:20.555 file because we, so Jesse and I are faculty at a near coastal university. 00:07:20.565 --> 00:07:22.115 We're about 12 miles from the ocean. 00:07:22.175 --> 00:07:22.435 So. 00:07:23.245 --> 00:07:24.015 Frank: near coastal 00:07:24.015 --> 00:07:25.595 Sue: in fact, deal with this. 00:07:26.935 --> 00:07:28.085 jesse_1_04-07-2024_110621: And we have close for them. 00:07:28.275 --> 00:07:31.295 We have knock on whatever this table is made out of. 00:07:31.615 --> 00:07:33.705 We've had some close shaves since we've been here. 00:07:33.975 --> 00:07:36.805 There's one in there somewhere, but aftermath flooding was 00:07:36.805 --> 00:07:39.315 our biggest, biggest impacts. 00:07:40.415 --> 00:07:43.085 And even whenever I was still in North Carolina at my school there, 00:07:43.915 --> 00:07:45.515 we, we would close for these as well. 00:07:45.800 --> 00:07:46.230 Yes. 00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:50.970 So, perhaps the force field will hold. 00:07:53.070 --> 00:07:56.050 Why would you, why would you threaten the force field like that? 00:07:56.050 --> 00:07:57.780 I gave the appropriate superstitions. 00:07:57.790 --> 00:08:01.550 You said maybe, and then you didn't knock after you said that one. 00:08:02.190 --> 00:08:04.580 Each statement requires its own set of superstitions. 00:08:04.580 --> 00:08:06.140 I will make the appropriate offerings 00:08:06.750 --> 00:08:07.580 Frank: Yeah, no group knock. 00:08:07.690 --> 00:08:08.360 the podcast. 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:10.200 There's no blanket knock. 00:08:10.410 --> 00:08:11.090 You gotta, you know. 00:08:11.230 --> 00:08:13.440 Jesse: And that's it for the news. 00:08:13.460 --> 00:08:17.370 And this week we have no idea what we're going to talk about. 00:08:17.370 --> 00:08:18.380 So we're just going to talk 00:08:19.870 --> 00:08:20.300 Frank: Cool. 00:08:20.550 --> 00:08:27.270 Jesse: it's, April, you know, if depending on where you are, you just saw March come 00:08:27.270 --> 00:08:29.520 in and like in lion out, like a lamb. 00:08:29.520 --> 00:08:33.780 We're getting ready to have April showers, bringing us May flowers. 00:08:33.790 --> 00:08:38.370 Of course, those of us further South have had flowers for a while now. 00:08:39.780 --> 00:08:43.070 Frank: Yeah, we had, we had flowers. 00:08:44.135 --> 00:08:49.595 Lion lamb flowers, lion lamb for the last four weeks, five 00:08:49.595 --> 00:08:50.575 weeks or something like that. 00:08:50.835 --> 00:08:52.555 So it's been very confusing. 00:08:52.655 --> 00:08:57.775 And I feel bad for the vegetation because it bloomed 21 days early this year. 00:08:58.065 --> 00:09:00.585 And then frost came along and said, nope. 00:09:01.225 --> 00:09:02.915 And then there's rain. 00:09:03.155 --> 00:09:04.535 And then there was cold. 00:09:04.535 --> 00:09:07.285 And then this week it's going to be warm and rainy. 00:09:07.295 --> 00:09:08.025 I had nobody. 00:09:08.095 --> 00:09:08.965 And then right. 00:09:08.965 --> 00:09:11.135 Predicting next week is cold again. 00:09:11.325 --> 00:09:13.635 So it's crazy. 00:09:14.215 --> 00:09:16.075 Sue: It's hard to see the trend line when you're in it. 00:09:16.570 --> 00:09:17.930 Frank: Yeah, it's, 00:09:18.555 --> 00:09:21.815 Jesse: Basically, Paxatanti Phil was feeling schizophrenic this year, 00:09:23.230 --> 00:09:23.980 Frank: yeah, it's, 00:09:23.985 --> 00:09:24.875 Jesse: shadow at least, sorry. 00:09:25.450 --> 00:09:26.290 Was shivering. 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:31.320 Frank: yeah, we had snow and Thursday, I think it was Thursday or Friday 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:34.830 was one of those days we had a little bit of snow, which is not unusual. 00:09:34.860 --> 00:09:38.730 And I, I know this is not unusual because one of my favorite songs 00:09:38.730 --> 00:09:42.780 to listen to whenever it snows is sometimes it snows in April by Prince. 00:09:43.110 --> 00:09:47.925 And I, Invariably end up listening that song most years than not, but given the 00:09:47.925 --> 00:09:52.655 amount of early bloom that we had, it was a little surprising how much snow we got. 00:09:54.770 --> 00:09:54.870 had 00:09:54.945 --> 00:09:55.415 not in 00:09:55.760 --> 00:09:57.050 Sue: last night in the thirties. 00:09:57.090 --> 00:10:02.880 It'll probably be like 70 today, but we are seeing some, and of course the high 00:10:02.890 --> 00:10:08.230 stakes weather forecasting of the eclipse viewing is going on now the last minute 00:10:08.280 --> 00:10:13.260 as they, they're starting to predict cloudiness and potential rain for some of 00:10:13.260 --> 00:10:15.960 the, the parts of the totality corridor. 00:10:17.100 --> 00:10:17.880 Jesse: So you guys are what? 00:10:17.880 --> 00:10:18.860 90 some percent. 00:10:19.435 --> 00:10:20.085 Frank: 90 something. 00:10:20.085 --> 00:10:20.415 Yeah. 00:10:20.455 --> 00:10:23.775 We're, I mean it's going to be 70 and cloudy tomorrow, so 00:10:24.300 --> 00:10:24.620 Sue: Yeah. 00:10:24.895 --> 00:10:26.055 Frank: it the effects of it. 00:10:26.115 --> 00:10:28.685 I mean, that's a pretty good eclipse. 00:10:29.795 --> 00:10:33.005 Jesse: We're only in the 70 some percent totality, 00:10:33.375 --> 00:10:33.515 Barb: Yeah. 00:10:33.515 --> 00:10:34.775 My glasses came in right? 00:10:34.775 --> 00:10:35.345 In time. 00:10:35.385 --> 00:10:36.365 They came in yesterday. 00:10:37.725 --> 00:10:41.725 Recommended by the space gal, Emily Calendrelli, who's from Morgantown. 00:10:41.775 --> 00:10:42.775 That does that show 00:10:44.255 --> 00:10:47.335 Sue: I have the welder's goggles thing and I got them for last time. 00:10:47.335 --> 00:10:51.555 And so here's where that, the forecast comes into play is that it was broke, 00:10:51.585 --> 00:10:57.395 I guess broken cloudy, but over, over us and Conway area, some clouds 00:10:57.395 --> 00:10:59.775 came through, dampened the fun. 00:10:59.775 --> 00:11:03.215 But if you went further South in South Carolina, they got a nice clear view. 00:11:03.215 --> 00:11:05.445 So the clouds do matter. 00:11:05.555 --> 00:11:09.325 Jesse: Or if you went a little bit further North and West to North Carolina. 00:11:10.085 --> 00:11:11.075 Sue: Was yours cloudy then? 00:11:11.245 --> 00:11:11.475 No. 00:11:11.705 --> 00:11:11.975 No? 00:11:11.995 --> 00:11:15.035 See, you got to see it great, but we, we did, I went out for a while. 00:11:15.035 --> 00:11:17.095 I mean, it was still neat because it got dark and everything, 00:11:17.095 --> 00:11:19.655 but this was 2017, I think. 00:11:19.955 --> 00:11:20.195 Yes. 00:11:20.235 --> 00:11:20.515 Yeah. 00:11:21.025 --> 00:11:23.635 So, but I felt slightly robbed. 00:11:24.315 --> 00:11:26.455 I mean, I had the welder's goggles and everything. 00:11:27.295 --> 00:11:29.755 Barb: I didn't know welders goggles would work because I've got mine. 00:11:29.755 --> 00:11:30.725 Yeah, they, they, 00:11:30.995 --> 00:11:35.425 Jesse: You, you have to have the thickest lenses, the number 14 or whatever. 00:11:35.425 --> 00:11:35.785 Yeah. 00:11:35.965 --> 00:11:40.125 Scale 14, basically the thickest ones that you can get for them. 00:11:40.245 --> 00:11:40.525 Sue: Yes. 00:11:40.845 --> 00:11:43.325 So, yeah, literally when you put them on, you can see. 00:11:43.540 --> 00:11:43.840 Nothing. 00:11:43.850 --> 00:11:44.510 Nothing. 00:11:45.340 --> 00:11:45.840 Outside of them. 00:11:47.170 --> 00:11:49.580 have to go to the, your position and then put them on. 00:11:50.305 --> 00:11:53.815 Frank: having used those for actual welding it's always fun because with 00:11:53.815 --> 00:11:56.225 welding, you've got to get, if you're doing stick welding, you have to get 00:11:56.225 --> 00:12:00.025 the stick at the right place, but you literally can't see anything and 00:12:00.025 --> 00:12:01.425 you're like, I think that's right. 00:12:02.335 --> 00:12:04.205 And then it comes on and you go, no, that's wrong. 00:12:04.375 --> 00:12:04.675 So 00:12:05.060 --> 00:12:05.410 Jesse: Yeah. 00:12:06.420 --> 00:12:10.340 Hence the, the folks who learn how to do the lean forward and 00:12:10.350 --> 00:12:12.530 have it come down, look, place, 00:12:13.365 --> 00:12:13.625 Frank: yeah. 00:12:13.625 --> 00:12:13.704 Yeah. 00:12:14.365 --> 00:12:19.945 It's, it's so it's, it renders you effectively blind until that light hits. 00:12:19.955 --> 00:12:21.225 So, well, 00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:24.160 Sue: I tried them on in the corridor of our office and there were at least 00:12:24.160 --> 00:12:27.910 three people there laughing at me and I had no idea who or where they were 00:12:29.060 --> 00:12:30.490 until I removed the goggles of course. 00:12:31.605 --> 00:12:35.025 Barb: And this week too, I've had two instances of having to give 00:12:35.035 --> 00:12:39.345 people the link to the did you feel it, the USGS for earthquakes. 00:12:39.355 --> 00:12:44.625 Cause the one was the earthquake that happened in Ohio, right near the Ohio 00:12:44.625 --> 00:12:48.185 West Virginia border that apparently everyone's reporting for Ohio, but no 00:12:48.185 --> 00:12:49.915 one's really reporting for West Virginia. 00:12:50.285 --> 00:12:52.995 And people are trying to figure out what the, you know, geologic 00:12:52.995 --> 00:12:54.155 survey, what does this mean? 00:12:54.455 --> 00:12:57.875 And then one that happened in my hometown in New Jersey, right there. 00:12:58.070 --> 00:13:00.920 Where I grew up that made the news and sending everyone the 00:13:00.920 --> 00:13:02.810 link for, did you feel it? 00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:07.120 Which I always appreciate the science communication side of that, that they make 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:12.910 it just very clear on, you know, how to, how to report it and make it fun to find. 00:13:13.870 --> 00:13:18.300 I think Australia's is, did it shake or something like that is, is what 00:13:18.300 --> 00:13:19.620 they use for you to find theirs. 00:13:20.580 --> 00:13:21.000 Jesse: Let's see. 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:22.490 What else is coming up in April? 00:13:22.530 --> 00:13:23.280 Tax day. 00:13:24.190 --> 00:13:25.560 Frank: Which I haven't done mine yet. 00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:30.570 So I'm well aware that there's a deadline looming that I had to 00:13:30.690 --> 00:13:31.130 Sue: In the U. 00:13:31.130 --> 00:13:31.400 S. 00:13:31.420 --> 00:13:31.800 it's tax 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:32.630 Frank: in the U S. 00:13:32.630 --> 00:13:32.660 Okay. 00:13:32.660 --> 00:13:32.710 Thanks. 00:13:32.710 --> 00:13:32.925 Jesse: Yes. 00:13:33.005 --> 00:13:34.425 A week from Monday. 00:13:34.920 --> 00:13:35.360 Frank: Yeah, 00:13:35.495 --> 00:13:37.635 Jesse: In fact, it's possible that most people will not hear 00:13:37.635 --> 00:13:39.045 this until well after tax day. 00:13:39.065 --> 00:13:39.185 Yes. 00:13:39.195 --> 00:13:41.195 So, hope you got it done. 00:13:41.785 --> 00:13:42.755 Or file an extension. 00:13:43.915 --> 00:13:45.935 Or another country where it's not April 15th. 00:13:46.460 --> 00:13:46.890 Frank: mm hmm. 00:13:47.810 --> 00:13:49.680 So I have a question that has nothing to do with any of 00:13:49.680 --> 00:13:50.740 the things going on in April. 00:13:50.810 --> 00:13:56.759 This just recently came up in Subreddit for professors, I think is where was that? 00:13:56.920 --> 00:14:02.600 That there was complaints about students not knowing how to use files and 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:08.260 folders and I thought that was a very interesting The number of what I found 00:14:08.260 --> 00:14:13.090 interesting about it is the number of professors who presumably use their 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:17.900 phone and their cloud based devices and that sort of thing that similarly 00:14:17.910 --> 00:14:23.030 do not use files and folders but don't really take into account that students. 00:14:23.740 --> 00:14:24.220 Live there. 00:14:24.220 --> 00:14:25.200 Jesse: Never needed to. 00:14:25.545 --> 00:14:25.915 Frank: Yeah. 00:14:25.925 --> 00:14:29.935 And so it and they're always kind of a gas that students don't know how to do that. 00:14:29.995 --> 00:14:34.625 And I actually was a little gas that student that professors were surprised 00:14:34.955 --> 00:14:36.795 by this because why would you? 00:14:36.795 --> 00:14:39.635 I mean, if you do cloud stuff, you don't have to even it just goes into a magic 00:14:40.295 --> 00:14:45.105 cloud space and you don't know where it's located or why or anything like that. 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:46.620 Jesse: I mean, we still say, you know, 00:14:46.870 --> 00:14:49.710 create a file to keep things together in the cloud. 00:14:49.710 --> 00:14:54.200 And, And, so you kind of think people would organize. 00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:57.820 No, mean, they don't generate as much as you would think. 00:14:57.820 --> 00:14:58.090 Sue: Yeah. 00:14:58.130 --> 00:15:02.060 And, and the, the conversation is even changing, right? 00:15:02.060 --> 00:15:05.740 So when I mean, those you'll remember on earlier episodes, years back in 00:15:05.740 --> 00:15:07.890 the podcast, where I said, one of the things that shocked me is that people 00:15:07.890 --> 00:15:09.190 didn't know what a zip file was. 00:15:09.660 --> 00:15:09.900 Right. 00:15:09.900 --> 00:15:14.630 So we've well progressed beyond that now to where I don't think 00:15:14.630 --> 00:15:19.660 they get, they don't understand even any of that structure in 00:15:19.660 --> 00:15:21.960 the sense of files and folders. 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:22.110 Right. 00:15:22.110 --> 00:15:22.610 As part of it. 00:15:22.620 --> 00:15:25.370 But the fact that there's something stored somewhere. 00:15:26.370 --> 00:15:29.820 And it might be on the computer, might not be on the computer, because 00:15:29.820 --> 00:15:34.490 now they're shocked if something happens and say a folder gets wiped. 00:15:34.860 --> 00:15:36.440 They're like, what do you mean it was on the computer? 00:15:37.470 --> 00:15:39.570 Can't I just log into my account and get it back? 00:15:39.800 --> 00:15:40.010 No. 00:15:40.680 --> 00:15:40.890 No. 00:15:40.890 --> 00:15:41.530 that's gone. 00:15:42.640 --> 00:15:44.470 You see how that folder says empty now? 00:15:44.520 --> 00:15:44.960 Gone. 00:15:45.980 --> 00:15:47.940 Jesse: You know how since the first day of class we said make sure to 00:15:47.950 --> 00:15:52.350 save it to the D drive because They like to wipe the C drive occasionally. 00:15:53.150 --> 00:15:53.750 This is why. 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:54.310 Yes. 00:15:54.310 --> 00:15:58.710 And when we say wipe we mean gone, like physically from the, from, from this feed, 00:15:59.580 --> 00:16:01.340 those bits are not backed up anywhere, 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:03.570 Frank: Well, you know, it kind of surprised me. 00:16:03.570 --> 00:16:04.420 My coworker. 00:16:04.700 --> 00:16:09.450 Now he comes from a a strong the position he had before position. 00:16:09.450 --> 00:16:14.060 He has now he was a trainer for Microsoft enterprise level things. 00:16:14.070 --> 00:16:18.070 So he's, you know, his knowledge base is very strongly attuned 00:16:18.070 --> 00:16:19.110 to what Microsoft does. 00:16:19.130 --> 00:16:21.490 And he does a lot with SharePoint, for example. 00:16:21.590 --> 00:16:25.250 And that's sort of how he approaches a lot of this enterprise level stuff. 00:16:25.870 --> 00:16:30.550 So it was interesting to me to watch him Trying to find a piece of 00:16:30.550 --> 00:16:36.900 information and he was doing searches based upon what he called the file, 00:16:37.550 --> 00:16:38.780 which is completely legitimate. 00:16:38.790 --> 00:16:41.560 I'm not suggesting that was weird or anything like that, but I thought, well, 00:16:41.560 --> 00:16:45.100 that's kind of interesting because I don't actually pay that much close attention 00:16:45.110 --> 00:16:50.104 that when I name files, I pay a lot more attention to where I saved files. 00:16:50.485 --> 00:16:55.445 So the way I organize my brain isn't so much that I don't worry that I've 00:16:55.455 --> 00:16:58.915 named this project X meeting notes. 00:16:58.945 --> 00:17:01.335 I just meeting notes, but it's in project X folder. 00:17:01.335 --> 00:17:05.865 So I know that that hierarchy exists and I just got to look in that folder 00:17:05.865 --> 00:17:11.725 and it's somewhere in there, I'm going to find a file is descriptive enough 00:17:11.735 --> 00:17:14.945 that I know what it's about, you know project plan or whatever it may be. 00:17:15.305 --> 00:17:15.765 Whereas. 00:17:16.795 --> 00:17:21.035 His more approach was a little bit making sure that his files were holistically 00:17:21.045 --> 00:17:24.815 named so he could find them in a search and try to remember what he named things. 00:17:25.195 --> 00:17:26.915 And it's, it, neither is wrong. 00:17:26.915 --> 00:17:27.995 It's just, it struck me. 00:17:28.045 --> 00:17:29.355 Well, that's really interesting. 00:17:29.365 --> 00:17:31.675 It's just the way he organizes the way he thinks about it. 00:17:31.675 --> 00:17:34.645 It's very different than how I organize, how I think about and 00:17:35.135 --> 00:17:37.975 something that struck me because shortly thereafter, I saw that 00:17:38.155 --> 00:17:39.575 discussion on the professor's subreddit, 00:17:41.560 --> 00:17:45.810 Jesse: which of course for GIS doesn't matter on ArcGIS online, maybe you can 00:17:45.810 --> 00:17:47.914 get away with just naming the bits. 00:17:48.865 --> 00:17:54.185 But as we know, every project that you save in ArcGIS Pro is going to 00:17:54.195 --> 00:17:58.785 have a folder, and if you move that folder, and you don't move every 00:17:58.785 --> 00:18:04.815 other folder you reference along with it, then you're going to kill the 00:18:05.525 --> 00:18:06.585 relative path. 00:18:07.355 --> 00:18:12.810 Now, the problem is, There's also this difference that those people who are 00:18:12.810 --> 00:18:18.120 coming from ArcMap, who are used to the not relative path, unless you go 00:18:18.120 --> 00:18:24.390 in and specifically chose it, aren't maybe necessarily thinking of ArcGIS 00:18:24.870 --> 00:18:27.570 Pro and the relative path mindset. 00:18:28.300 --> 00:18:32.460 So it's a different, yeah, but hopefully of course everybody's moved away from 00:18:32.460 --> 00:18:34.770 ArcGIS or ArcMap now to ArcGIS Pro. 00:18:35.175 --> 00:18:35.525 Or 00:18:36.005 --> 00:18:36.635 they have moved to 00:18:37.180 --> 00:18:38.760 Frank: narrator, they have not 00:18:39.375 --> 00:18:43.915 Sue: yeah, yes, yes, you know, and I think I, although I think for today, like, it's 00:18:43.915 --> 00:18:47.705 too much in depth, but this conversation is kind of an interesting tangential 00:18:47.705 --> 00:18:53.495 lead into stuff that I've been thinking about a lot more and that is the change 00:18:53.495 --> 00:18:56.295 in, in how GIS is being done, right? 00:18:56.305 --> 00:18:56.945 And we've talked about it. 00:18:56.945 --> 00:18:57.705 It's been happening. 00:18:57.705 --> 00:19:00.705 I mean, it changes not just at Esri, but other places. 00:19:01.875 --> 00:19:05.670 I think, you know, It is a question for us because we're in the transition, right? 00:19:05.670 --> 00:19:07.100 We remember the old times. 00:19:07.450 --> 00:19:12.750 A lot of us still do things with the old times, but for those of us in education, 00:19:13.160 --> 00:19:17.230 the students that are coming to us don't have any attachment to that world. 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:21.640 And the things that they're seeing, right, the things they're used to 00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:23.140 working with are in fact different. 00:19:23.280 --> 00:19:27.745 And so your options are to go back and kind of backfill in some of 00:19:27.755 --> 00:19:31.635 the older things that we take for granted, like explaining, okay, so 00:19:31.635 --> 00:19:33.515 you're working on a desktop computer. 00:19:33.955 --> 00:19:36.965 These are the things that must happen for you to be successful. 00:19:37.415 --> 00:19:41.205 Versus do we then evolve and say, well increasingly things 00:19:41.205 --> 00:19:42.465 are being done over the web. 00:19:42.475 --> 00:19:44.415 They're being done with these types of things, remote 00:19:44.865 --> 00:19:46.645 processes, all this kind of stuff. 00:19:46.985 --> 00:19:51.025 And so I find myself struggling with, with the, which way to go with this. 00:19:51.025 --> 00:19:54.475 I do some of each, but You know, again, it's a broader question 00:19:54.475 --> 00:19:55.455 that I keep wrestling with. 00:19:55.455 --> 00:19:58.915 And I don't know if I want to give it the term modern GIS or whatever, but, 00:19:59.465 --> 00:20:04.485 but I do think that the question is how much do I try to go back and say, look, 00:20:04.495 --> 00:20:08.255 this is how you, this is how you do these other things, because this works this 00:20:08.255 --> 00:20:10.145 way, but there's less and less chance. 00:20:10.145 --> 00:20:12.175 You're going to see this out in the working world. 00:20:12.425 --> 00:20:14.875 Maybe it's because I'm not as connected to the working world 00:20:14.875 --> 00:20:18.730 anymore to know how many people out there actually making this work. 00:20:19.090 --> 00:20:23.230 this transition themselves are coming into it new and, and using tools that aren't 00:20:23.250 --> 00:20:25.150 what we would consider traditional GIS. 00:20:26.310 --> 00:20:29.310 Barb: actually, what I'm finding is that a lot of my students are, are 00:20:29.310 --> 00:20:33.980 already working a lot of them and they are seeing themselves as the, the 00:20:34.010 --> 00:20:38.460 professionals that are bringing that transition in because the, you know, 00:20:38.460 --> 00:20:42.410 it's the organizations they're in aren't necessarily, you know, even though you 00:20:42.410 --> 00:20:46.200 have to make that transition, there are a lot of people that still are 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:49.515 thinking that they, you know, Don't have to work and find a way around it. 00:20:50.980 --> 00:20:51.590 jesse_1_04-07-2024_110621: Around what? 00:20:52.285 --> 00:20:57.335 Barb: The switch over to the cloud and, and ARC Pro future, 00:20:57.685 --> 00:20:58.565 future to the modern era, 00:20:59.205 --> 00:21:02.625 Frank: the inevitable movement of technology and time that they're immune 00:21:02.625 --> 00:21:06.875 to it, that's and, and what I'm finding from our professional organization 00:21:06.875 --> 00:21:11.975 side of things is I'm finding a lot of people who are, they do a thing. 00:21:12.340 --> 00:21:13.430 And the thing works. 00:21:13.760 --> 00:21:17.050 So then I keep doing the thing that works, which is fine. 00:21:17.060 --> 00:21:20.240 If you're, you know, doing woodworking or something like that. 00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:24.080 But when it comes to technology like this, this stuff is evolving 00:21:24.080 --> 00:21:25.360 whether you want it to or not. 00:21:25.970 --> 00:21:33.720 And 1 of the things that I find a little frustrating about this is The organ, 00:21:33.750 --> 00:21:38.380 the companies mostly have a vision that they're pushing that I'm not sure 00:21:38.380 --> 00:21:41.350 they've entirely tested completely. 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:43.810 And they're kind of like, well, it's just, I don't mean my test. 00:21:43.810 --> 00:21:45.280 Is it does it work? 00:21:45.320 --> 00:21:48.830 Not work as in, is this a approach that makes a lot of sense? 00:21:49.340 --> 00:21:50.830 And they're saying, we're going to do it this way. 00:21:50.840 --> 00:21:54.415 And then, you know, People go, I don't understand how to get my brain 00:21:54.415 --> 00:21:56.115 around that, to do it that way. 00:21:56.865 --> 00:22:01.385 And I think it's, we're, we're doing a lot of live live testing 00:22:01.515 --> 00:22:06.255 of concepts in, in not just GIS, but more broadly in technology now. 00:22:07.115 --> 00:22:11.875 Jesse: I think this is, we've gone from a very small group of 00:22:11.895 --> 00:22:17.045 people who are learning and using technologies to early, early days. 00:22:17.735 --> 00:22:21.055 And, you know, there are people who, including ourselves some of 00:22:21.055 --> 00:22:25.935 us that were still doing, you know, command line, ArcGIS, seven point, 00:22:25.955 --> 00:22:27.825 whatever, whenever we started. 00:22:28.205 --> 00:22:29.425 And so we went through ArcView. 00:22:29.425 --> 00:22:32.845 We went through Arc MapObjects, not ArcMapObject, just MapObjects. 00:22:32.865 --> 00:22:36.325 We went through ArcMap and its various iterations. 00:22:36.355 --> 00:22:43.670 And now we're in ArcGIS Pro, but The thing is, is that there are a lot 00:22:43.670 --> 00:22:45.190 of people who aren't those people. 00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:51.050 And so I think that's the difference now is that we have this core 00:22:51.130 --> 00:22:56.860 that was new and heavily into the early changes in the industry. 00:22:57.510 --> 00:23:00.220 And keep in mind at that point, the industry technically was 00:23:00.220 --> 00:23:02.470 already 30 or more years old. 00:23:02.820 --> 00:23:06.370 Whenever we're talking about the late nineties and so now we have 00:23:06.370 --> 00:23:10.450 this broad breadth of people who have entered at different points. 00:23:11.150 --> 00:23:15.320 And so there are people who have been in the profession and are getting ready 00:23:15.320 --> 00:23:20.250 to retire that didn't deal with things that I've dealt with whenever I started. 00:23:20.250 --> 00:23:22.150 Frank: Well, yeah, I think that's, that's true. 00:23:23.300 --> 00:23:23.770 I don't know. 00:23:23.780 --> 00:23:24.165 I, I don't know. 00:23:24.315 --> 00:23:25.605 I don't disagree with you at all. 00:23:25.615 --> 00:23:26.815 You're absolutely right about that. 00:23:26.815 --> 00:23:29.385 But I just find it a little bizarre. 00:23:29.635 --> 00:23:33.585 And admittedly, I'm coming from a point of view of being a heavy technologist, 00:23:33.635 --> 00:23:36.455 you know, show me the latest whiz bang thing and I want to play with it. 00:23:36.925 --> 00:23:42.315 So it is a biased point of view, but I am very surprised still to 00:23:42.315 --> 00:23:48.735 this day, the number of people who look at this stuff as a static tool. 00:23:49.615 --> 00:23:50.225 Jesse: No, I agree. 00:23:50.825 --> 00:23:54.245 Frank: Considering how much it's changed just since we started the podcast, 00:23:54.265 --> 00:23:59.095 which is, you know, a relatively short period of time in in most careers. 00:23:59.495 --> 00:24:03.985 So I find that a little, little bizarre. 00:24:04.155 --> 00:24:09.530 You know, that that you don't sort of accept as a norm of the role that. 00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:13.730 You're going to have to do it different in five years, whatever it is you're doing. 00:24:14.380 --> 00:24:16.810 And I'm also impressed. 00:24:16.840 --> 00:24:20.060 I'm very impressed actually with the sheer number of people I see that 00:24:20.100 --> 00:24:24.710 don't do it different in five years that are able to just keep doing it. 00:24:24.730 --> 00:24:27.700 I'm like, that's amazing that you can keep doing that. 00:24:28.090 --> 00:24:30.830 And it works for you, which is both a Testament to the 00:24:30.830 --> 00:24:34.600 resiliency of the technology and also the resiliency to change. 00:24:36.725 --> 00:24:36.965 Jesse: Yeah. 00:24:36.965 --> 00:24:41.395 I mean, we have so many different takes on it at this point that it's just, we are 00:24:41.395 --> 00:24:44.805 all baffled and at the same time, we're all confused why other people are baffled. 00:24:45.885 --> 00:24:48.415 Barb: I was going to say, I just got back from an Open Education Resource 00:24:48.415 --> 00:24:52.655 Conference, where both the state and the national groups involved with 00:24:52.675 --> 00:24:54.395 open education were talking about it. 00:24:54.415 --> 00:24:59.455 And one of the things I noticed was and highly appreciative of, is that 00:24:59.475 --> 00:25:04.015 for me, a lot of what I'm doing and working with finding and creating 00:25:04.425 --> 00:25:05.965 It's, it's not brand new to me. 00:25:05.965 --> 00:25:09.855 It's not something that I have to think is this worthwhile doing because 00:25:09.975 --> 00:25:14.045 the geospatial community has been very good because of these changes. 00:25:14.045 --> 00:25:18.365 I think about doing a lot of open education and discussion and help. 00:25:18.765 --> 00:25:20.465 I mean, I know I can go to YouTube. 00:25:20.555 --> 00:25:21.695 I can go to videos. 00:25:21.695 --> 00:25:22.525 I can go to GitHub. 00:25:22.525 --> 00:25:23.515 I can go to Substack. 00:25:23.525 --> 00:25:26.615 There's so many places now, but they've always been where the 00:25:26.615 --> 00:25:31.825 community has been willing to basically step people through these changes. 00:25:32.355 --> 00:25:34.365 So that you can adapt quicker. 00:25:34.435 --> 00:25:38.625 I know I can go somewhere and no one's going to make me feel that, you 00:25:38.625 --> 00:25:40.635 know, I'm dumb for looking and asking. 00:25:40.645 --> 00:25:44.235 Cause I'm going to ask a whole lot of questions yeah, the majority of people, 00:25:44.235 --> 00:25:47.295 it's a very, I said, and I had to say, I said, you know, this we've been in 00:25:47.295 --> 00:25:52.515 this, you know, in the open education for professionals and students for, you 00:25:52.515 --> 00:25:55.695 know, the community a long time, it's a very, you know, very open community. 00:25:55.715 --> 00:26:00.705 So I think that is also what lends itself to being able to adapt 00:26:00.705 --> 00:26:03.725 and change is finding resources that you don't have to pay for. 00:26:04.535 --> 00:26:11.035 . Sue: Well, and I think that very mindset, right, is also and I'm going to try 00:26:11.035 --> 00:26:14.615 to, in my mind, it's taking me a second to kind of connect it back to when I'm 00:26:14.615 --> 00:26:18.295 thinking about some of these transitions, right, is, is that very mindset, right? 00:26:18.295 --> 00:26:20.405 That there's all these resources, there's all these things out there. 00:26:20.405 --> 00:26:21.155 I can go get it. 00:26:21.535 --> 00:26:27.015 Also affects kind of or goes hand in hand with the, the changeover in mindset. 00:26:27.015 --> 00:26:27.185 Right? 00:26:27.185 --> 00:26:31.385 So one of the things that I also see is happening is at least when 00:26:31.395 --> 00:26:32.995 we first encountered GIS, right. 00:26:32.995 --> 00:26:35.985 And geospatial, it was again, it's just, he was saying a 00:26:35.985 --> 00:26:37.415 smaller, much smaller community. 00:26:37.415 --> 00:26:37.685 Right. 00:26:37.935 --> 00:26:40.535 And the way that you passed on what you knew was among 00:26:40.535 --> 00:26:43.125 your Your select group, right? 00:26:43.195 --> 00:26:45.395 And I don't mean select I'm trying not to mean that in a bad way. 00:26:45.395 --> 00:26:47.025 It just means it's a smaller group of people. 00:26:47.435 --> 00:26:49.005 And so the knowledge got passed on. 00:26:49.305 --> 00:26:53.715 The core of what you did was at a physical computer, right? 00:26:53.715 --> 00:26:58.355 The web part of it came later and it was, you know, it was kind of a rough, kind of 00:26:58.355 --> 00:26:59.845 rough transition into some of that stuff. 00:27:00.155 --> 00:27:03.705 And so there was very much ownership and, and you go through your whole career by 00:27:03.725 --> 00:27:07.485 doing it the same way because it worked and you were trained by someone else. 00:27:08.520 --> 00:27:10.520 how to do it, whether you got that in formal education 00:27:10.520 --> 00:27:12.030 classes or training on the job. 00:27:12.370 --> 00:27:17.040 And so that sense, right, that everything I, and, and that I think, and, and, 00:27:17.110 --> 00:27:19.460 you know, Frank, you can correct me on this as, as somebody who's also, 00:27:19.490 --> 00:27:22.460 you know, been in technology even longer than me or, you know, Jesse. 00:27:22.820 --> 00:27:25.270 And Just that notion that where are my files? 00:27:25.270 --> 00:27:26.720 I need to know where my data is. 00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:28.350 I need to know where my results are, right? 00:27:28.350 --> 00:27:29.740 I have an ownership on that. 00:27:30.030 --> 00:27:32.320 I don't feel comfortable unless I can backtrack and do 00:27:32.320 --> 00:27:33.880 those types of things, right? 00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:38.340 That has evolved as we've seen connections and cloud, the rise of cloud and all that. 00:27:38.710 --> 00:27:42.312 And And so again, I think the next generation down doesn't really have 00:27:42.312 --> 00:27:43.682 necessarily that attachment, right? 00:27:43.682 --> 00:27:46.582 Where I freak out, like, I don't know, where's my floppy disk. 00:27:46.602 --> 00:27:47.042 Yes. 00:27:47.102 --> 00:27:47.342 Right. 00:27:47.342 --> 00:27:49.742 I don't know where the data was that created this result layer. 00:27:49.742 --> 00:27:51.602 So I have to have that, or I don't really trust it. 00:27:51.972 --> 00:27:55.202 But as we change to other things, right, there's less ownership by the, the, like, 00:27:55.322 --> 00:27:58.692 you know, some users now don't even ask where to go or where'd I get that layer. 00:27:58.692 --> 00:27:59.992 They just pull in anything. 00:27:59.992 --> 00:28:03.462 And, you know, we try to educate about things like metadata and all that sort 00:28:03.462 --> 00:28:05.172 of stuff, but it doesn't resonate. 00:28:05.172 --> 00:28:05.222 Right. 00:28:05.512 --> 00:28:09.802 And like it did, I don't think and this is just getting my, my experience with it, 00:28:09.852 --> 00:28:11.382 trying to explain why this is important. 00:28:11.382 --> 00:28:13.992 I mean, they'll, you know, there'll be an understanding, Oh, obviously 00:28:13.992 --> 00:28:18.082 if I create a data layer after 2011, it will have South Sudan on it. 00:28:18.082 --> 00:28:19.602 And prior to that, it won't, right. 00:28:19.602 --> 00:28:22.872 Because it wasn't an independent country, you know, something obvious like that, 00:28:22.922 --> 00:28:26.492 that there will be an understanding of why these types of things matter. 00:28:26.842 --> 00:28:29.472 And again, I'm just pulling out one tiny example of this whole change, 00:28:29.772 --> 00:28:32.022 but I think that some of it too, in that evolution, right, is the 00:28:32.022 --> 00:28:36.072 notion of, , something we've talked about for the entire podcast, right? 00:28:36.072 --> 00:28:41.282 Which is, you know, how this synthesizing and reworking and everything of sources 00:28:41.292 --> 00:28:46.572 of, of perspectives and stuff that is allowed by sharing everything, you 00:28:46.572 --> 00:28:48.452 know, just goes all the way through. 00:28:48.847 --> 00:28:51.647 The GIS world the geospatial world as well. 00:28:52.287 --> 00:28:54.387 Frank: I recently got made fun of for hitting save. 00:28:54.387 --> 00:28:56.017 It 00:28:56.437 --> 00:28:59.077 Sue: Hey, isn't that like a small microcosm example of this, right? 00:28:59.077 --> 00:28:59.477 Frank: Yeah. 00:29:00.997 --> 00:29:04.747 was, and in fairness, we were doing, you know, working on a Word 00:29:04.757 --> 00:29:07.677 document online and it just saves. 00:29:07.697 --> 00:29:08.857 It just does, it just does. 00:29:09.617 --> 00:29:10.667 It's takes care of that. 00:29:10.667 --> 00:29:14.867 And I don't have to hit the save button, but I can't not hit the save button. 00:29:15.037 --> 00:29:16.327 I've learned that about myself. 00:29:16.347 --> 00:29:20.647 I've evolved to the point where no, I have to hit the save button that way. 00:29:20.647 --> 00:29:22.887 I know, I know it got saved, 00:29:23.557 --> 00:29:29.437 Jesse: I don't know how, completely off topic, but our IT has found a way to 00:29:29.437 --> 00:29:31.977 turn off the auto save feature in Word. 00:29:32.857 --> 00:29:34.837 And all of the Office. 00:29:36.797 --> 00:29:38.307 Frank: but yes, we have the exact opposite. 00:29:38.317 --> 00:29:42.667 It's always saving in, in, real time, which, you know, 00:29:43.747 --> 00:29:43.947 Jesse: because 00:29:44.077 --> 00:29:44.537 versioning. 00:29:44.547 --> 00:29:47.527 So they've also basically found a way to locally. 00:29:47.557 --> 00:29:49.707 So if you're doing it in the cloud, yeah, your version, you're good. 00:29:50.167 --> 00:29:54.577 If you're doing it locally, it's not doing versioning the same way 00:29:54.617 --> 00:29:57.037 because it's not actively saving. 00:29:57.747 --> 00:29:57.817 Frank: yeah. 00:29:57.817 --> 00:30:01.137 And so versioning is the thing that I like having an active hand in. 00:30:01.557 --> 00:30:02.097 So. 00:30:02.822 --> 00:30:03.852 I will remember. 00:30:03.902 --> 00:30:04.242 Oh, yeah. 00:30:04.252 --> 00:30:05.702 Version 17. 00:30:05.782 --> 00:30:07.672 I was going on this tangent. 00:30:07.902 --> 00:30:10.382 So I need to go back to version 16. 00:30:10.972 --> 00:30:14.862 And so I like positive stops that I understand what the 00:30:14.862 --> 00:30:16.682 degrees of change might be. 00:30:17.052 --> 00:30:17.932 Whereas this. 00:30:18.427 --> 00:30:24.637 This constant saving thing confuses me because what will happen is, is 00:30:24.637 --> 00:30:30.467 that as an example, as I may do, I may rework a paragraph and then the 00:30:30.467 --> 00:30:34.967 next paragraph, punch it up a little bit, and then go back to the paragraph 00:30:34.967 --> 00:30:38.097 before that other paragraph and say, Oh, I got to make some word changes. 00:30:38.427 --> 00:30:43.257 And then I realized, Oh, third paragraph I edited on is all wrong. 00:30:43.287 --> 00:30:43.937 I need to delete it. 00:30:44.027 --> 00:30:46.937 So I need to, or I need to keep pieces of it. 00:30:47.077 --> 00:30:50.497 You know, so if I hit starting control Z, I end up undoing things. 00:30:50.812 --> 00:30:56.302 That I didn't want to undo in the, in this need to get to the thing that 00:30:56.302 --> 00:30:59.732 I do want to undo, you know, it's sort of, it, I personally find it 00:30:59.732 --> 00:31:02.902 easier to control that versioning, but you don't do that in the cloud. 00:31:02.932 --> 00:31:05.372 And it's very hard for me to switch to that mindset. 00:31:05.527 --> 00:31:09.967 Jesse: can, but you have the, but you have then the backup 00:31:10.457 --> 00:31:12.987 because versioning I want is for the backup, not for the 00:31:12.987 --> 00:31:15.087 change in ideas that I agree. 00:31:15.087 --> 00:31:16.967 You created a copy of 00:31:17.617 --> 00:31:18.047 that. 00:31:20.127 --> 00:31:21.837 I want something where. 00:31:23.447 --> 00:31:26.467 If I accidentally do something to a portion of the document I didn't mean 00:31:26.467 --> 00:31:32.037 to, and I close it and come back to it, which means that it's no longer in the 00:31:32.037 --> 00:31:38.417 undo list, then I can go back to the version and open up that old version 00:31:38.947 --> 00:31:43.287 where this, and this could be just like you know, a one page letter, it 00:31:43.287 --> 00:31:46.607 doesn't need to be a multi page document where versioning really does, you know, 00:31:46.617 --> 00:31:51.172 having different different copies are important, just being able to Say, oh, 00:31:51.172 --> 00:31:53.172 wait, the sentence I had in here is gone. 00:31:53.182 --> 00:31:54.122 It was really great sentence. 00:31:54.122 --> 00:31:55.852 How do I get back to that now? 00:31:55.862 --> 00:31:57.212 Versioning allows me to do that. 00:31:57.312 --> 00:31:58.332 Yeah, I like that too. 00:31:58.332 --> 00:32:00.122 But also I, I think I'm in Frank's camp, right? 00:32:00.142 --> 00:32:00.982 I like active. 00:32:01.322 --> 00:32:05.222 So that's why on, on my, on the game console for me. 00:32:05.392 --> 00:32:05.692 Yes. 00:32:05.987 --> 00:32:09.727 But on gaming console, while there's 15 saves of the same game, because now I'm, 00:32:09.737 --> 00:32:12.187 I see it saving, but I want my control. 00:32:12.297 --> 00:32:13.487 I want to know what happens. 00:32:13.487 --> 00:32:15.217 So I want to actively see the event happening. 00:32:15.227 --> 00:32:18.307 Well, I want to know that I can go back to this if I, you know, spam 00:32:18.307 --> 00:32:22.267 myself in the next iteration, I can go back a couple of saves and fix it. 00:32:22.347 --> 00:32:25.977 Sue: Yes, but, but that is, I think, but, but there's a whole group 00:32:25.977 --> 00:32:28.767 that doesn't even see that as like something to take into account. 00:32:29.497 --> 00:32:31.247 And that, that is a very different mindset. 00:32:32.092 --> 00:32:32.272 Frank: yeah. 00:32:32.272 --> 00:32:33.032 I don't disagree. 00:32:33.032 --> 00:32:39.322 I like having both, but because of the degree of activeness, it's, it's 00:32:39.382 --> 00:32:43.962 harder for me to trust the automatic thing other than the very last version. 00:32:44.262 --> 00:32:46.452 Like, let me go back to the very, you know, the very last. 00:32:48.337 --> 00:32:52.397 It's harder for me to understand what has changed in the versioning 00:32:52.407 --> 00:32:53.817 going back to some extent. 00:32:54.157 --> 00:32:57.257 So that that's where, you know, if I have the positive stops, 00:32:57.257 --> 00:32:58.487 I know exactly what's going on. 00:32:58.487 --> 00:33:02.157 And that's just easier for me to wrap my brain around per se. 00:33:02.427 --> 00:33:07.327 Plus I hate hitting control Z 87 times in a row to get back to, you know, I 00:33:07.327 --> 00:33:09.397 have, I have a bad habit of writing. 00:33:09.397 --> 00:33:12.807 For example, I'll write a sentence and I'll delete part of it and then I'll. 00:33:12.882 --> 00:33:15.722 Write some more and then I'll delete the bit that I wrote, you know, I'm 00:33:15.752 --> 00:33:17.332 completely rewriting it as I go. 00:33:17.332 --> 00:33:20.132 And I'll end up with like 19 versions of one sentence. 00:33:20.132 --> 00:33:21.882 And then I realized, oh, that whole sentence is garbage. 00:33:22.402 --> 00:33:25.572 So I need to go back to before I started, you know, that type of thing. 00:33:25.572 --> 00:33:26.862 So it makes it a little harder for me to hit. 00:33:27.142 --> 00:33:32.022 Anyway, I understand both are useful and I want both, but at the same time, I'm 00:33:32.092 --> 00:33:36.682 running into in the work environment, the version, the versioning that I'm used to, 00:33:36.682 --> 00:33:38.652 where I have my own positive stops is. 00:33:39.627 --> 00:33:43.257 lesser used than just trusting the online versioning thing. 00:33:43.257 --> 00:33:48.587 And that's hard for me to use both using only one and not the other. 00:33:49.757 --> 00:33:53.357 Jesse: So, yeah, there's a conversation for the day, and hopefully you 00:33:54.587 --> 00:33:55.457 Frank: Found something useful 00:33:55.677 --> 00:33:56.007 Jesse: stuck 00:33:56.277 --> 00:33:56.532 to this point. 00:33:56.532 --> 00:33:56.757 Well, yeah, 00:33:56.757 --> 00:34:02.577 Sue: I think we are going to circle back around to maybe another more specific 00:34:02.957 --> 00:34:04.927 conversation about evolving GIS. 00:34:04.977 --> 00:34:09.087 Because I think that GIS geospatial because it does have 00:34:09.087 --> 00:34:10.477 a lot more implications to it. 00:34:11.222 --> 00:34:14.702 Jesse: You should head on and find out about some events in the events corner. 00:34:15.842 --> 00:34:20.152 First up, State of the Map 2024 will be taking place September 00:34:20.152 --> 00:34:22.392 6th to the 8th in Nairobi, Kenya. 00:34:22.772 --> 00:34:26.172 A call for the academic track is due May 10th. 00:34:26.282 --> 00:34:30.832 Barb: AGILE 2024, which is the Association of Geographic Information Laboratories in 00:34:30.832 --> 00:34:35.122 Europe, is holding its annual conference focused on geographic information 00:34:35.122 --> 00:34:40.152 science for a sustainable future in Glasgow, UK, June 4th through 7th. 00:34:40.872 --> 00:34:44.402 And Geography 2050 is taking place November 22nd to 00:34:44.402 --> 00:34:46.312 the 24th in New York City. 00:34:47.552 --> 00:34:49.272 Sue: The city's so nice they named it twice. 00:34:49.592 --> 00:34:50.162 Frank: That's right. 00:34:50.887 --> 00:34:52.767 Jesse: If you'd like us to add your event to the podcast, send us an 00:34:52.767 --> 00:34:53.967 email to podcasts at variouspacial. 00:34:53.967 --> 00:34:54.277 com. 00:34:54.927 --> 00:34:56.717 Sue: If you'd like to reach us individually, I can be 00:34:56.717 --> 00:34:58.007 reached at Sue@veryspatial. 00:34:58.027 --> 00:34:58.317 com. 00:34:59.302 --> 00:35:00.512 Barb: I'm Barb at VerySpatial. 00:35:00.512 --> 00:35:00.812 com. 00:35:01.092 --> 00:35:02.712 Frank: And you can reach me at Frank at VerySpatial. 00:35:02.712 --> 00:35:03.012 com. 00:35:03.717 --> 00:35:05.027 Jesse: I'm available at Jesse@veryspatial. 00:35:05.047 --> 00:35:05.277 com. 00:35:05.277 --> 00:35:07.957 And of course you can find all of our contact information over at veryspatial. 00:35:07.977 --> 00:35:09.357 com slash contacts. 00:35:10.502 --> 00:35:11.072 Frank: As always, 00:35:11.572 --> 00:35:12.742 Barb: we're the folks from Very Spatial. 00:35:13.107 --> 00:35:13.797 Jesse: Thanks for listening. 00:35:14.177 --> 00:35:15.147 Sue: We'll see you in a couple of weeks.