1 00:00:08,466 --> 00:00:11,886 Leading effectively and leading change. 2 00:00:12,178 --> 00:00:15,181 These topics are always linked. 3 00:00:15,223 --> 00:00:19,144 Working on one without the other will always leave us wanting. 4 00:00:19,352 --> 00:00:21,062 With less than great results. 5 00:00:21,062 --> 00:00:26,526 Today we are talking about a mind shift that helps us do both better. 6 00:00:26,693 --> 00:00:30,405 This should be of interest to every leader in every organization. 7 00:00:30,613 --> 00:00:33,366 Welcome to another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast, 8 00:00:33,366 --> 00:00:37,287 where we are helping leaders grow personally and professionally 9 00:00:37,287 --> 00:00:40,373 to lead more effectively and make a bigger difference 10 00:00:40,373 --> 00:00:43,376 for their teams, organizations, and the world. 11 00:00:43,376 --> 00:00:46,504 If you are listening to this podcast, you could join us in the future. 12 00:00:46,713 --> 00:00:49,507 Live when they are, when they are streamed 13 00:00:49,507 --> 00:00:52,510 on your favorite social channel, 14 00:00:52,594 --> 00:00:54,763 perhaps your favorite social channel? 15 00:00:54,763 --> 00:00:59,476 you can get all of those information about all of those live future episodes. 16 00:00:59,684 --> 00:01:04,481 Therefore, interact with me, us and see them sooner. 17 00:01:04,481 --> 00:01:07,317 Get the information that you're getting today 18 00:01:07,317 --> 00:01:10,904 several weeks sooner by joining our Facebook or LinkedIn groups. 19 00:01:10,904 --> 00:01:13,948 Just two of the channels that we stream on those, 20 00:01:14,824 --> 00:01:18,495 you can go to remarkable podcast.com/linkedin 21 00:01:18,828 --> 00:01:22,957 or remarkable podcast.com/facebook to get that information, 22 00:01:22,957 --> 00:01:25,960 get in the know and know when will be live. 23 00:01:26,169 --> 00:01:29,214 Today's episode is brought to you by my upcoming book, 24 00:01:29,214 --> 00:01:33,009 Flexible Leadership Navigating Uncertainty and Leading with Confidence. 25 00:01:33,259 --> 00:01:36,137 This book gives you a new perspective and skill set to lead 26 00:01:36,137 --> 00:01:39,808 in challenging times in a more effective and confident way. 27 00:01:39,849 --> 00:01:42,852 Pre-ordering your book today guarantees you the best possible price 28 00:01:42,936 --> 00:01:46,898 and to be an early adopter of its groundbreaking ideas. 29 00:01:47,023 --> 00:01:52,487 You can learn more and preorder your copy today at remarkable podcast.com/flexible. 30 00:01:52,779 --> 00:01:55,740 That's remarkable podcast.com/flexible. 31 00:01:55,740 --> 00:01:59,828 And now I'm going to bring in my guest Mindy Vale. 32 00:02:00,078 --> 00:02:03,957 And then I'm going to get my notes here so I can tell you all about her 33 00:02:03,957 --> 00:02:05,208 before we dive in. 34 00:02:05,208 --> 00:02:09,129 Mindy has more than two decades of experience in leadership development, 35 00:02:09,129 --> 00:02:12,423 change management, education and public speaking, working 36 00:02:12,423 --> 00:02:15,760 with and emerging with emerging leaders to veteran executives. 37 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:20,014 Her focus is cultivating a growth mindset and fostering resilience. 38 00:02:20,348 --> 00:02:23,351 Her new book, The Mindset Effect 39 00:02:23,476 --> 00:02:26,437 where change management is redefined 40 00:02:26,771 --> 00:02:31,359 and Leadership is refined, provides a wellspring of inspiration 41 00:02:31,359 --> 00:02:34,571 for leading meaningful organizational change. 42 00:02:34,571 --> 00:02:36,531 And today, she is my guest. 43 00:02:36,531 --> 00:02:38,366 And I'm glad that you're here. Mindy. Welcome. 44 00:02:39,367 --> 00:02:39,742 Thank you. 45 00:02:39,742 --> 00:02:41,369 Kevin, what a nice introduction. 46 00:02:41,369 --> 00:02:44,038 Thanks for having me. I love your show and I'm honored to be on it. 47 00:02:44,038 --> 00:02:47,792 I am glad to have you, and I'm glad to have read this book. 48 00:02:47,792 --> 00:02:49,294 In preparation for this conversation. 49 00:02:49,294 --> 00:02:51,754 So let's start here. 50 00:02:51,754 --> 00:02:54,299 Let's start with your journey. I mean, you hinted at it. 51 00:02:54,299 --> 00:02:58,219 We hinted at a little bit in the in the open, but like tell us a little bit 52 00:02:58,219 --> 00:03:01,222 about how you end up doing this work 53 00:03:01,306 --> 00:03:04,267 and how you end up writing this book. 54 00:03:06,102 --> 00:03:08,146 It's a long story and I'll try to make it short. 55 00:03:08,146 --> 00:03:12,734 I started it, you know, start with I was born at. 56 00:03:12,734 --> 00:03:15,528 Right. It's now. 57 00:03:15,528 --> 00:03:18,198 No, we don't want to go back that far, but we can start. 58 00:03:18,198 --> 00:03:21,534 when I started my career in K-12 education, I was in junior 59 00:03:21,534 --> 00:03:24,954 high in high school, English teacher for nearly 20 years. 60 00:03:25,205 --> 00:03:28,708 And then I left the the, 61 00:03:29,584 --> 00:03:33,004 teaching world and went into corporate world. 62 00:03:33,338 --> 00:03:36,758 And the transition was very awkward 63 00:03:36,758 --> 00:03:39,802 for me because it's a very different environment. 64 00:03:40,094 --> 00:03:43,264 And yet over time, I realized there are a lot of similarities 65 00:03:43,264 --> 00:03:46,726 and a lot of skill sets that I had that I could take with me and transfer, 66 00:03:46,768 --> 00:03:47,685 which is great. 67 00:03:47,685 --> 00:03:51,731 And I speak with a lot of teachers who are looking to transition outside 68 00:03:51,731 --> 00:03:55,610 of the world of education into corporate, not knowing what they don't know. 69 00:03:55,902 --> 00:03:59,155 And so then I became, 70 00:03:59,614 --> 00:04:02,992 over the last ten years, VP of Culture and engagement 71 00:04:03,034 --> 00:04:06,663 for Papa murphy's pizza here in the Pacific Northwest. 72 00:04:07,121 --> 00:04:11,292 And I oversaw human resources and learning and development for, 73 00:04:11,918 --> 00:04:14,921 field training, corporate communications. 74 00:04:15,338 --> 00:04:17,507 And I loved my job. 75 00:04:17,507 --> 00:04:19,342 I adored the people I worked with. 76 00:04:19,342 --> 00:04:20,635 It was super rewarding. 77 00:04:20,635 --> 00:04:24,555 And then we had a mass layoff, and I was part of that in February. 78 00:04:25,098 --> 00:04:28,601 And so part of that was another transition 79 00:04:28,601 --> 00:04:32,563 for me to say, where do I want to go with my career? 80 00:04:32,563 --> 00:04:33,898 With my life? 81 00:04:33,898 --> 00:04:36,609 I have decisions I can make for myself now. 82 00:04:36,609 --> 00:04:38,027 I have a clean slate. 83 00:04:38,027 --> 00:04:38,903 What do I want to do? 84 00:04:38,903 --> 00:04:41,155 And so I started journaling and 85 00:04:42,282 --> 00:04:43,449 my journals started 86 00:04:43,449 --> 00:04:46,452 turning into reflections of 87 00:04:46,577 --> 00:04:49,998 what good leaders looked like and what the toxic leaders looked like. 88 00:04:50,415 --> 00:04:54,043 And as we navigated change through a merger 89 00:04:54,043 --> 00:04:57,046 and acquisition, what did that look like and feel like? 90 00:04:57,213 --> 00:04:57,672 Right. 91 00:04:57,672 --> 00:05:00,675 And and as many people who are listening 92 00:05:00,925 --> 00:05:03,636 have been through that change is tremendous. 93 00:05:03,636 --> 00:05:06,806 And it impacts employees in many different ways. 94 00:05:06,806 --> 00:05:11,436 And if we aren't aware of how that change is impacting 95 00:05:11,436 --> 00:05:14,522 their thinking and their behavior, we can really be behind the eight ball. 96 00:05:15,189 --> 00:05:16,566 And so then. 97 00:05:16,566 --> 00:05:17,775 Yeah. Yeah. 98 00:05:17,775 --> 00:05:19,902 And then and then that turned into writing a book. 99 00:05:19,902 --> 00:05:24,198 And I wasn't intending on writing a book, but it ended up that way. 100 00:05:24,198 --> 00:05:25,867 And here I am. Yeah. 101 00:05:25,867 --> 00:05:26,659 Here it is. 102 00:05:26,659 --> 00:05:31,372 So, you know, I ask almost every guest, Mindy, that question about their journey. 103 00:05:31,372 --> 00:05:34,000 And people take a different, different directions, and that's fine. 104 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,338 But what I love about how you framed it is that probably everyone 105 00:05:38,338 --> 00:05:42,842 who's watching live or watching later or listening whenever, 106 00:05:43,926 --> 00:05:45,219 can, can 107 00:05:45,219 --> 00:05:48,222 identify with at least part of what you're saying. 108 00:05:48,222 --> 00:05:50,683 Maybe they weren't in education before their incorporation. 109 00:05:50,683 --> 00:05:52,685 Maybe they're still in education. So that part's not what I'm talking about. 110 00:05:52,685 --> 00:05:57,106 I'm talking about having lived through change and transition. 111 00:05:57,106 --> 00:05:59,442 Some that went better than others. 112 00:05:59,442 --> 00:06:01,486 And that's really a big part of what this book is about. 113 00:06:01,486 --> 00:06:04,530 The book is titled The Mind Shift Effect. 114 00:06:04,781 --> 00:06:06,824 So it seems like that's where we should start. 115 00:06:06,824 --> 00:06:11,120 What would you say is, in fact the mind shift effect? 116 00:06:12,580 --> 00:06:15,083 I would say that it is an approach 117 00:06:15,083 --> 00:06:20,797 to how we look at our personal and our professional lives. 118 00:06:20,797 --> 00:06:24,550 It's how we approach our own level of self-awareness. 119 00:06:24,967 --> 00:06:28,262 It's how we approach our interactions with those around us, 120 00:06:28,304 --> 00:06:31,265 our teams that we lead and our coworkers. 121 00:06:31,391 --> 00:06:35,395 And it's how we approach that thought process of I don't care 122 00:06:35,395 --> 00:06:38,689 what other people think, when really I do care what other people think. 123 00:06:39,315 --> 00:06:41,692 My success is driven 124 00:06:41,692 --> 00:06:44,862 from what they think and how they perceive me as a leader. 125 00:06:44,987 --> 00:06:46,572 So I want to know what drives them. 126 00:06:46,572 --> 00:06:48,282 I want to know what motivates them. 127 00:06:48,282 --> 00:06:54,163 And so every time I have a chance to think differently, to have that mind shift 128 00:06:54,163 --> 00:06:57,166 and to challenge the norm and 129 00:06:57,166 --> 00:07:00,336 to really expose my own self 130 00:07:01,504 --> 00:07:03,005 conditioned limitations 131 00:07:03,005 --> 00:07:06,008 that I put on myself, I become a better leader. 132 00:07:06,342 --> 00:07:09,387 And I always try to challenge my clients to do the same thing. 133 00:07:09,387 --> 00:07:10,888 Push yourself, 134 00:07:10,888 --> 00:07:14,142 you know, step outside that little comfort zone that we love to live in. 135 00:07:14,684 --> 00:07:16,686 Yeah. 136 00:07:16,686 --> 00:07:18,729 in the in the introduction to the book, you talk about the fact 137 00:07:18,729 --> 00:07:20,940 that there are lots of change models and certainly there are. 138 00:07:20,940 --> 00:07:24,402 And you're certainly not saying here that there's a problem with them, 139 00:07:24,735 --> 00:07:27,238 but you do say something on page 11. 140 00:07:27,238 --> 00:07:28,489 I'm not going to ask you to tell me. 141 00:07:28,489 --> 00:07:32,285 I'm going to read it, and then I'm going to have you respond and comment on it. 142 00:07:32,285 --> 00:07:34,662 Okay. So you said, 143 00:07:34,662 --> 00:07:38,291 there seem to be a gap avoid avoid waiting to be filled with a resource 144 00:07:38,291 --> 00:07:39,917 that was not only informative and insightful, 145 00:07:39,917 --> 00:07:42,336 but also approachable, relatable and actionable. 146 00:07:42,336 --> 00:07:46,257 I'm taking a slightly different approach to change management. 147 00:07:46,924 --> 00:07:49,927 a more humanistic, bite sized approach. 148 00:07:50,219 --> 00:07:54,390 I prioritize empathy, communication, and collaboration, aiming to understand 149 00:07:54,390 --> 00:07:58,269 the emotional and psychological aspects of change for individuals. 150 00:07:58,269 --> 00:07:59,687 There's another way of thinking about this. 151 00:07:59,687 --> 00:08:00,938 And then you finish. 152 00:08:00,938 --> 00:08:03,983 My focus is to create a supportive environment to facilitate 153 00:08:04,358 --> 00:08:08,362 smoother transitions and garner greater buy in from stakeholders. 154 00:08:08,362 --> 00:08:10,781 Anything about that you want to say before we go on. 155 00:08:12,575 --> 00:08:13,701 I love that you brought that up, 156 00:08:13,701 --> 00:08:17,830 because I don't want to take anything away from the change management 157 00:08:19,332 --> 00:08:24,086 frameworks that are out there that exist and that really provide us 158 00:08:24,086 --> 00:08:27,089 with the structure that we can work from. 159 00:08:27,423 --> 00:08:30,718 They provide wonderful resources for us 160 00:08:31,886 --> 00:08:35,932 when we take that, and then we add on a humanistic approach. 161 00:08:35,932 --> 00:08:38,559 That's when you get your winning ticket. 162 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,269 It's not one or the other. 163 00:08:40,269 --> 00:08:42,313 It's a combination of both. 164 00:08:42,313 --> 00:08:45,775 And for me, time and time again, I've seen leaders 165 00:08:45,775 --> 00:08:50,321 who just don't do a great job validating other people's feelings and emotions 166 00:08:50,613 --> 00:08:53,616 and the things we bring with us every day to work. 167 00:08:53,866 --> 00:08:57,453 And it's not about coddling people, it's about just showing empathy 168 00:08:57,453 --> 00:08:58,454 and understanding. 169 00:08:58,454 --> 00:09:02,250 And like, I get that you've been places, I get that you have your own experiences. 170 00:09:02,250 --> 00:09:06,796 I get that you maybe even have trauma around this kind of change. 171 00:09:07,630 --> 00:09:10,424 I get it, and I understand that. 172 00:09:10,424 --> 00:09:14,929 And because of that recognition, we can then take those change frameworks 173 00:09:16,514 --> 00:09:17,265 and then our 174 00:09:17,265 --> 00:09:20,351 empathy put it together and it really works. 175 00:09:21,102 --> 00:09:23,813 And that's really is the big picture of the book. 176 00:09:23,813 --> 00:09:24,146 Everybody. 177 00:09:24,146 --> 00:09:27,191 We talked with, Mindy Vale, the author of The Mind Shift Effect. 178 00:09:27,733 --> 00:09:32,989 And you early in the book, you list a bunch of myths, right? 179 00:09:33,364 --> 00:09:36,492 things that are sort of, in the popular parlance that people talk about. 180 00:09:36,492 --> 00:09:38,286 And, and many people sort of take it's true. 181 00:09:38,286 --> 00:09:40,246 But you say they're myths. 182 00:09:40,246 --> 00:09:42,790 There's one of which I agree. 183 00:09:42,790 --> 00:09:44,625 I want to talk about one of them specifically 184 00:09:44,625 --> 00:09:48,296 because I think it's it sets the frame for where I want us to go today. 185 00:09:48,588 --> 00:09:50,298 But I also think it's a really important one. 186 00:09:50,298 --> 00:09:53,301 So here's one of Mindy's myths. 187 00:09:53,759 --> 00:09:58,514 the myth is that resistance to change is a sign of negativity or defiance. 188 00:09:58,514 --> 00:10:01,559 You say, not so fast. My friend. 189 00:10:02,184 --> 00:10:04,895 So let's talk about that a little bit more. 190 00:10:04,895 --> 00:10:05,938 Isn't that true? 191 00:10:05,938 --> 00:10:09,150 And it's I also speak about failure 192 00:10:09,609 --> 00:10:12,695 and how we are conditioned to believe that failure is bad. 193 00:10:12,695 --> 00:10:16,365 It's kind of the same thing here of change when somebody says, 194 00:10:16,449 --> 00:10:21,203 I don't want to do that and they resist, we immediately say, 195 00:10:21,203 --> 00:10:23,623 oh my gosh, they're being a rebel and they don't want to go along. 196 00:10:23,623 --> 00:10:26,500 And what a pain in the rear. 197 00:10:26,500 --> 00:10:28,711 And that's not it. 198 00:10:28,711 --> 00:10:31,714 That's not it at all. I mean it could be. 199 00:10:31,839 --> 00:10:34,550 But okay, true. You have. The power. 200 00:10:35,635 --> 00:10:36,385 Let's be clear. 201 00:10:36,385 --> 00:10:38,387 Everybody could be that. 202 00:10:38,387 --> 00:10:41,015 But if you've worked with those people to write. 203 00:10:41,015 --> 00:10:42,892 It's not enough. Right. 204 00:10:42,892 --> 00:10:43,726 Right, right. 205 00:10:43,726 --> 00:10:46,604 And and I think that having those conversations, 206 00:10:46,604 --> 00:10:48,314 just taking the time to say, 207 00:10:48,314 --> 00:10:50,858 what is it that you're fearing the most about this change? 208 00:10:50,858 --> 00:10:53,110 What is it that you're most uncomfortable about? 209 00:10:53,110 --> 00:10:55,696 And just being real about it 210 00:10:55,696 --> 00:10:57,698 and you'll realize, is it being defiant? 211 00:10:57,698 --> 00:10:59,408 Is it just that person, 212 00:10:59,408 --> 00:11:02,453 or is there something else to it that you can help them work through? 213 00:11:02,995 --> 00:11:04,246 And you don't need to be a counselor. 214 00:11:04,246 --> 00:11:05,498 You don't need to be a coach. 215 00:11:05,498 --> 00:11:08,501 It's just having a human conversation with someone. 216 00:11:09,293 --> 00:11:13,214 Yeah, I always say that, you know, resistance is naturally occurring. 217 00:11:13,839 --> 00:11:17,009 Doesn't necessarily mean there's all sorts of sources of it. 218 00:11:17,635 --> 00:11:20,805 but for us to be surprised by it, and oftentimes 219 00:11:20,805 --> 00:11:24,016 leaders get indignant because of it. Why? 220 00:11:24,016 --> 00:11:27,103 Because, well, I came up with this change idea, and like, I've got it 221 00:11:27,103 --> 00:11:31,065 all figured out and they just are being difficult, right? 222 00:11:31,065 --> 00:11:33,859 It's not that at all. It's just a natural occurrence. To your point. 223 00:11:33,859 --> 00:11:37,697 but it isn't necessarily defiance, and it certainly isn't only negativity. 224 00:11:37,697 --> 00:11:39,198 I just really, really love that. 225 00:11:39,198 --> 00:11:43,452 So, talking about that human conversation 226 00:11:43,869 --> 00:11:47,206 and what are some specific things that we can do, 227 00:11:48,582 --> 00:11:49,333 to help 228 00:11:49,333 --> 00:11:53,379 people through the resistance, like, it's going to happen. 229 00:11:53,379 --> 00:11:54,922 It's already here. 230 00:11:54,922 --> 00:11:57,508 You're feeling it. They're stating it. 231 00:11:57,508 --> 00:12:01,095 What are some what's some advice you have about what we can do with it? 232 00:12:02,263 --> 00:12:02,805 How do we help? 233 00:12:02,805 --> 00:12:06,183 So one of the things that has really helped me 234 00:12:06,183 --> 00:12:09,520 over the years and I, I majored in psychology. 235 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,523 So this is kind of part of my dialog anyway. 236 00:12:12,606 --> 00:12:15,067 but recognizing the psychological 237 00:12:15,067 --> 00:12:19,905 fundamentals of how people respond to change and a little bit 238 00:12:19,905 --> 00:12:24,201 of just that basic neurology, that neuroscience behind it of 239 00:12:24,410 --> 00:12:29,039 what is the amygdala doing, right, that fight or flight system? 240 00:12:30,374 --> 00:12:34,795 when does that kick in, and how do we see change as a potential threat 241 00:12:35,296 --> 00:12:38,299 or as a potential adventure? 242 00:12:38,674 --> 00:12:41,635 And knowing, like if you're leading a team, 243 00:12:41,635 --> 00:12:44,930 what team members respond to different ways and why 244 00:12:46,056 --> 00:12:49,018 it can really help them alleviate their stress 245 00:12:49,018 --> 00:12:52,313 because they see that you hear them and understand them. 246 00:12:53,105 --> 00:12:57,526 But we also have to just realize that it's our brains way of protecting us, right? 247 00:12:57,526 --> 00:13:00,404 Going back thousands and thousands of years. Right. 248 00:13:00,404 --> 00:13:04,450 And when we recognize that, wow, this is just my brain processing 249 00:13:04,533 --> 00:13:07,536 this stimulus. 250 00:13:07,995 --> 00:13:09,872 We're at an advantage as a leader. 251 00:13:09,872 --> 00:13:11,165 Right? Right. 252 00:13:11,165 --> 00:13:15,127 And we can then control how we then process 253 00:13:15,127 --> 00:13:19,298 that information coming in and how we can then respond to it. 254 00:13:20,257 --> 00:13:23,260 If you're listening or watching, when she said something about, 255 00:13:23,260 --> 00:13:26,263 I don't know, maybe two minutes ago that I think is worth remembering. 256 00:13:26,263 --> 00:13:29,892 And so here's, here's your here's your verbal highlighter, 257 00:13:30,059 --> 00:13:34,188 she said, do we see do we how do we help people see change as a 258 00:13:34,230 --> 00:13:37,358 do they see it as a threat or do they see this as an adventure? 259 00:13:37,358 --> 00:13:42,947 And I love that frame because most everyone loves an adventure, right? 260 00:13:43,155 --> 00:13:48,035 And if we can help people say, okay, and adventures aren't always 100% rosy, right? 261 00:13:48,035 --> 00:13:51,914 But we we, we approach them with, with, 262 00:13:52,915 --> 00:13:53,833 a sense of purpose. 263 00:13:53,833 --> 00:13:58,504 We, we approach them with a sense of, desire and intrigue and, 264 00:13:58,504 --> 00:14:01,006 and I think that's a really healthy way for us to think about it. 265 00:14:01,006 --> 00:14:03,717 You mentioned fight or flight, right? 266 00:14:03,717 --> 00:14:06,720 And like everyone knows, fight or flight, 267 00:14:06,762 --> 00:14:10,724 but you really talk about five F's, if you will. 268 00:14:10,933 --> 00:14:14,103 And I'd like you to sort of unpack these a little bit 269 00:14:14,395 --> 00:14:18,315 because we don't just go into fight or flight, but really 270 00:14:18,816 --> 00:14:21,819 fight flight, freeze, fun or flop. 271 00:14:21,819 --> 00:14:24,321 And I can see here that I left out of comma. 272 00:14:24,321 --> 00:14:26,407 so let's 273 00:14:26,407 --> 00:14:29,660 would you just walk us through like people pretty much understand fight and flight? 274 00:14:29,660 --> 00:14:35,833 Would you help people understand these other three reactions that we might have? 275 00:14:35,833 --> 00:14:39,753 Because I think when you listen, everybody, you'll get you'll see that 276 00:14:39,753 --> 00:14:42,756 I've seen that or I've felt that that's been me. 277 00:14:43,215 --> 00:14:44,383 Yeah. Isn't that interesting? 278 00:14:44,383 --> 00:14:47,219 Because over the years we keep adding an f word. 279 00:14:48,512 --> 00:14:49,763 I have to be careful about that. 280 00:14:49,763 --> 00:14:49,972 Yeah. 281 00:14:49,972 --> 00:14:51,223 Hey, you said it, not me. 282 00:14:51,223 --> 00:14:54,226 So really careful about that. 283 00:14:54,435 --> 00:14:56,020 I'm going show back. 284 00:14:56,020 --> 00:14:58,355 Right, right, right. 285 00:14:58,355 --> 00:15:00,816 I think we're all familiar with fight or flight. 286 00:15:00,816 --> 00:15:03,819 When we fight and we're confronted with change, 287 00:15:04,612 --> 00:15:08,324 we tend to react in a confrontational, 288 00:15:08,324 --> 00:15:11,327 maybe even assertive manner, 289 00:15:11,493 --> 00:15:15,581 and we're trying to challenge the situation that's in front of us. 290 00:15:15,581 --> 00:15:17,166 So we're fighting it. 291 00:15:17,166 --> 00:15:21,003 The flight, obviously, is what it sounds like of we. 292 00:15:21,003 --> 00:15:24,006 We withdraw, we escape, we run away from it. 293 00:15:24,757 --> 00:15:27,051 We fear it, so we run. 294 00:15:27,051 --> 00:15:31,972 And that may be we actually physically run or it may be mentally. 295 00:15:32,014 --> 00:15:33,641 We check out. Right. 296 00:15:33,641 --> 00:15:36,435 And we remove ourselves from what. 297 00:15:36,435 --> 00:15:39,605 Ourselves we avoid we we deny all those things, right? 298 00:15:40,189 --> 00:15:40,397 Yeah. 299 00:15:40,397 --> 00:15:43,150 And we can see that come up in passive aggressive behavior. 300 00:15:44,526 --> 00:15:45,945 So people who are listening 301 00:15:45,945 --> 00:15:49,198 may go, oh yeah, I know people who do that or that's me. 302 00:15:49,907 --> 00:15:53,452 The freeze is that instinctive reaction 303 00:15:54,244 --> 00:15:57,039 where you just become immobilized or paralyzed 304 00:15:57,039 --> 00:16:00,584 and you just don't know what to do because you are truly 305 00:16:00,584 --> 00:16:05,506 in a state of that paralysis of, oh my gosh, what's just happening? 306 00:16:05,798 --> 00:16:08,467 I don't even know what to do. 307 00:16:08,467 --> 00:16:11,470 And your brain almost shuts itself off right? 308 00:16:12,763 --> 00:16:16,225 We see this often in a bystander situation 309 00:16:16,225 --> 00:16:19,728 where there's been a horrible accident 310 00:16:19,728 --> 00:16:22,731 and people just stand around and they don't know what to do, 311 00:16:23,399 --> 00:16:23,983 right? 312 00:16:23,983 --> 00:16:27,861 It can that can happen in a very traumatic change environment. 313 00:16:28,612 --> 00:16:29,655 Then we have fun. 314 00:16:29,655 --> 00:16:34,994 And fun is one of those kind of newer F words to the amygdala responses. 315 00:16:35,411 --> 00:16:40,457 And that's really, seeking to please others and appease 316 00:16:40,457 --> 00:16:46,213 the situation, wanting harmony, wanting to maintain the status quo. 317 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,717 And I, I love thinking about people 318 00:16:49,717 --> 00:16:52,845 who do that because you identify them right away. 319 00:16:54,221 --> 00:16:54,555 Well, 320 00:16:54,555 --> 00:16:57,391 I'll say this about about that one and that is that 321 00:16:57,391 --> 00:17:00,394 I think there are a lot of leaders, especially early in their career, 322 00:17:00,728 --> 00:17:04,314 a lot of front line leaders, that this is where they end up, 323 00:17:05,024 --> 00:17:07,443 because, I mean, it can be lots of reasons, but 324 00:17:07,443 --> 00:17:10,904 I think one of the biggest reasons is that they 325 00:17:11,905 --> 00:17:14,950 they're still figuring out this new role of being a leader. 326 00:17:15,075 --> 00:17:18,579 And so they try to like, you know, protect their team. 327 00:17:18,579 --> 00:17:23,834 They try to, sort of be in solidarity with their team against, 328 00:17:24,209 --> 00:17:27,254 you know, the leadership that they are now a part of. 329 00:17:27,421 --> 00:17:29,965 And that's just a really important thing for it. 330 00:17:29,965 --> 00:17:31,467 If you're a if you're a leader of leaders 331 00:17:31,467 --> 00:17:35,637 to be aware of and, and coach your folks on, but also for yourself, 332 00:17:35,763 --> 00:17:39,058 if you're there in that spot where you're you're you're sort of 333 00:17:39,725 --> 00:17:41,977 pointing the finger as well. They want to change. 334 00:17:41,977 --> 00:17:44,313 I'm kind of with you here. 335 00:17:44,313 --> 00:17:47,191 We just got to be really careful with that one because that can have long term 336 00:17:48,192 --> 00:17:50,861 be the long term detriment for us, for sure. 337 00:17:50,861 --> 00:17:51,195 Yeah. 338 00:17:51,195 --> 00:17:52,488 You're making me think of 339 00:17:52,488 --> 00:17:55,866 of previous leaders that I've worked with and that it really can be 340 00:17:55,908 --> 00:17:58,202 I know that their intentions are really good. 341 00:17:58,202 --> 00:17:59,536 Right? 342 00:17:59,536 --> 00:18:02,873 They're absolutely they're they're kind hearted, good people. 343 00:18:03,665 --> 00:18:04,583 but you're absolutely right. 344 00:18:04,583 --> 00:18:07,836 It can be detrimental in the end when that's done, when it's over. 345 00:18:07,878 --> 00:18:10,881 Done. And then the last F is flop. 346 00:18:11,381 --> 00:18:13,717 Flop. Yes. Flop. 347 00:18:13,717 --> 00:18:16,261 just that sense of resignation, 348 00:18:16,261 --> 00:18:19,264 of helplessness, of I give up. 349 00:18:19,598 --> 00:18:23,143 I'm just going to lay here and just let it happen. 350 00:18:23,143 --> 00:18:25,771 And I have no control over the situation. 351 00:18:25,771 --> 00:18:27,189 It is what it is. 352 00:18:27,189 --> 00:18:29,525 I'll let somebody else figure it out. 353 00:18:29,525 --> 00:18:33,195 And that is dangerous, obviously, because that can create a sense of apathy. 354 00:18:34,905 --> 00:18:35,948 100%. 355 00:18:35,948 --> 00:18:39,576 We know one of the things that you talk about, in the book is our biases. 356 00:18:39,576 --> 00:18:41,912 And, you know, I think in the last 15 years, 357 00:18:41,912 --> 00:18:45,165 a lot of us have become a lot more aware that we all have a lot of biases. 358 00:18:45,582 --> 00:18:48,585 There's a couple that you talk about here. 359 00:18:49,211 --> 00:18:51,296 and I think as we think about this 360 00:18:51,296 --> 00:18:55,592 in the change context, it's useful for you to help us 361 00:18:55,592 --> 00:18:58,595 think about, okay, if we know we have them 362 00:18:59,763 --> 00:19:02,141 now, what do we do about that? 363 00:19:02,141 --> 00:19:04,059 Can you talk about that just for a second? 364 00:19:04,059 --> 00:19:04,935 Yeah. 365 00:19:04,935 --> 00:19:07,938 Conscious and unconscious biases. Right. 366 00:19:07,980 --> 00:19:09,314 We have conscious biases. 367 00:19:09,314 --> 00:19:14,778 We know we're very aware of certain things that we tend to generalize stereotype. 368 00:19:15,195 --> 00:19:18,824 We may even have prejudices about them based on our own experiences. 369 00:19:19,449 --> 00:19:20,659 Life does that to us. 370 00:19:22,619 --> 00:19:24,580 We then know have. 371 00:19:24,580 --> 00:19:25,330 Well those are easy. 372 00:19:25,330 --> 00:19:27,291 First off, those are easy to identify 373 00:19:27,291 --> 00:19:31,378 for the most part and then work on because I can say one, two, three, 4 or 5. 374 00:19:31,378 --> 00:19:35,048 These are the things that continue to come up for me 375 00:19:35,465 --> 00:19:38,886 as I work with different people, diverse populations. 376 00:19:38,886 --> 00:19:43,015 I can see myself reacting differently when I'm with ABC. 377 00:19:43,390 --> 00:19:44,725 Right. 378 00:19:44,725 --> 00:19:45,517 Through coaching. 379 00:19:45,517 --> 00:19:46,351 That's pretty easy. 380 00:19:46,351 --> 00:19:49,980 Now, our unconscious biases, those are the ones that have been ingrained 381 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,318 and sit back here and we don't really even recognize that 382 00:19:54,318 --> 00:19:59,156 they're alive and well, and yet they speak loudly 383 00:19:59,156 --> 00:20:02,534 in our actions towards others. 384 00:20:02,826 --> 00:20:06,496 And that may be, just kind of that 385 00:20:07,956 --> 00:20:10,959 going with things that feel familiar, 386 00:20:11,919 --> 00:20:14,922 tending to lean 387 00:20:15,214 --> 00:20:18,217 towards the things we want to believe to be true. 388 00:20:19,092 --> 00:20:20,052 Yeah. 389 00:20:20,052 --> 00:20:21,970 Right. Confirmation bias. 390 00:20:21,970 --> 00:20:23,347 Oh, I hear that. 391 00:20:23,347 --> 00:20:25,807 It aligns with what I think is right. 392 00:20:25,807 --> 00:20:27,851 So I'm hanging on to that. 393 00:20:27,851 --> 00:20:29,102 Right? Right, right. 394 00:20:29,102 --> 00:20:33,190 And then I get I stop exploring the other options. 395 00:20:33,523 --> 00:20:35,108 And that's definitely. 396 00:20:35,108 --> 00:20:37,736 One of the things I like that you said there's a role shouldn't 397 00:20:37,736 --> 00:20:41,823 be to try to eliminate our biases, but to understand them and to work with them 398 00:20:42,115 --> 00:20:45,118 and to use them to help us better understand 399 00:20:45,327 --> 00:20:48,914 and not even to judge ourselves about them, but just to do recognition. 400 00:20:48,914 --> 00:20:53,293 And I think that as, as a leader, we can do that for others 401 00:20:53,293 --> 00:20:55,420 as well, through the kinds of questions we ask, some of the kinds of stuff 402 00:20:55,420 --> 00:20:57,172 we've already talked about, certainly, particularly, 403 00:20:58,382 --> 00:21:00,217 one of the things that you talk about in the book 404 00:21:00,217 --> 00:21:03,720 quite a bit that I really like, because here's here's my observation. 405 00:21:04,054 --> 00:21:07,849 My observation is that everybody talks about change is hard. 406 00:21:09,268 --> 00:21:12,020 and then people say we need to be we need to be innovative. 407 00:21:12,020 --> 00:21:16,692 So yeah, change gets looked at as sort of like a necessary evil. 408 00:21:17,567 --> 00:21:22,572 and yet innovation is lauded as this wonderful thing. 409 00:21:22,572 --> 00:21:24,408 And yet 410 00:21:24,408 --> 00:21:25,284 they're the same. 411 00:21:25,284 --> 00:21:28,328 Like, you can't innovate without there being change involved. 412 00:21:28,328 --> 00:21:29,955 So talk about that. 413 00:21:29,955 --> 00:21:32,165 Talk about that connection if you would. 414 00:21:32,165 --> 00:21:35,168 And what we need to be thinking about as leaders 415 00:21:35,919 --> 00:21:38,922 in relationship to that. 416 00:21:39,548 --> 00:21:40,841 We can't. 417 00:21:40,841 --> 00:21:41,717 You're absolutely right. 418 00:21:41,717 --> 00:21:47,597 We cannot have cultures of innovation that thrive in today's world. 419 00:21:47,973 --> 00:21:52,269 If we don't embrace this idea that change is good 420 00:21:52,602 --> 00:21:54,646 and it can be beneficial. 421 00:21:54,646 --> 00:21:56,023 And yes, it can be scary. 422 00:21:56,023 --> 00:21:57,691 And yes, it can feel like a threat. 423 00:21:57,691 --> 00:22:00,277 And yes, it can be messy. 424 00:22:00,277 --> 00:22:01,194 And that's okay. 425 00:22:02,237 --> 00:22:03,739 Same thing with failure. 426 00:22:03,739 --> 00:22:04,990 When we go through change, 427 00:22:04,990 --> 00:22:07,993 when we try to innovate, we're going to fall flat on our face. 428 00:22:08,910 --> 00:22:10,203 That's okay. 429 00:22:10,203 --> 00:22:12,539 That's a part of the process. 430 00:22:12,539 --> 00:22:14,791 God knows I've fallen on my face enough time. 431 00:22:14,791 --> 00:22:16,335 I'm still here. 432 00:22:16,335 --> 00:22:21,006 So in order to get your culture as one of innovation, 433 00:22:21,006 --> 00:22:24,551 you have to work on building that psychological safety. 434 00:22:25,052 --> 00:22:28,055 It is so critical, 435 00:22:28,221 --> 00:22:31,224 and it is something that is more than a just a buzzword. 436 00:22:31,767 --> 00:22:35,979 It is the foundation of any innovative culture. 437 00:22:36,521 --> 00:22:39,524 Employees who feel like their opinions matter, 438 00:22:39,775 --> 00:22:44,654 employees, you know that they can shoot out a crazy idea 439 00:22:45,072 --> 00:22:49,868 and they won't have that fear of judgment or criticism hovering over them. 440 00:22:50,327 --> 00:22:52,662 That's everything. 441 00:22:52,662 --> 00:22:52,871 Yeah. 442 00:22:52,871 --> 00:22:53,872 And, you know, 443 00:22:53,872 --> 00:22:54,790 if we go 444 00:22:54,790 --> 00:22:58,877 right down to blocking and tackling, I think that sometimes leaders forget. 445 00:22:59,086 --> 00:23:04,424 We forget that the people doing the work know the work better than we do. 446 00:23:05,717 --> 00:23:07,552 and, and there 447 00:23:07,552 --> 00:23:11,848 in terms of sort of what I would call micro innovations, they're the 448 00:23:12,140 --> 00:23:15,352 they're the best source for them because they see them, 449 00:23:15,352 --> 00:23:17,813 they see the issues, they see the bumps, and they get 450 00:23:17,813 --> 00:23:21,525 they're the ones who get the bumps in the bruises and and yet, you know, 451 00:23:22,275 --> 00:23:25,278 if they are, if they don't feel like it's safe for them to share 452 00:23:25,362 --> 00:23:27,406 or they don't think they would, those ideas would be welcomed, 453 00:23:27,406 --> 00:23:28,240 or they don't think that 454 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,077 even if they were welcome, they would never, ever be implemented, 455 00:23:32,869 --> 00:23:35,872 then you're never going to get to your point to this culture of innovation. 456 00:23:35,914 --> 00:23:39,126 And it's this idea that part of the mind shift is that change 457 00:23:39,793 --> 00:23:41,711 is good, change is necessary. 458 00:23:41,711 --> 00:23:43,213 Change is valuable. 459 00:23:43,213 --> 00:23:44,840 Change doesn't have to be. 460 00:23:45,882 --> 00:23:48,301 It doesn't have to be fighting. 461 00:23:48,301 --> 00:23:51,012 We don't have to be fighting for homeostasis. 462 00:23:51,012 --> 00:23:51,221 Right? 463 00:23:51,221 --> 00:23:55,225 We can be we can be moving toward ala stasis, which is like that. 464 00:23:55,225 --> 00:23:56,768 This is that we evolve. 465 00:23:56,768 --> 00:23:57,686 And that's a good thing, right? 466 00:23:57,686 --> 00:24:00,105 That's that's a great way, I think, for us to think about it. 467 00:24:00,105 --> 00:24:01,273 So I want you to talk. 468 00:24:01,273 --> 00:24:03,608 There's another thing that you talk about in the book 469 00:24:03,608 --> 00:24:06,987 that I think is really useful, because you talk about 470 00:24:08,113 --> 00:24:10,991 you talk a good bit about collaboration. 471 00:24:10,991 --> 00:24:13,785 And so what's how do you want to connect 472 00:24:13,785 --> 00:24:16,746 collaboration and change. 473 00:24:17,497 --> 00:24:21,126 So collaboration came for me from a place, 474 00:24:21,918 --> 00:24:24,921 it was very personal because I 475 00:24:25,005 --> 00:24:28,675 in different jobs, certainly wasn't just one career. 476 00:24:28,675 --> 00:24:31,678 It was teaching and and corporate franchise. 477 00:24:32,095 --> 00:24:36,099 I saw the dangers of people working in silos and 478 00:24:37,225 --> 00:24:38,143 the dangers of 479 00:24:38,143 --> 00:24:41,146 people who hoarded information. 480 00:24:41,980 --> 00:24:44,065 A lot of reasons for that. 481 00:24:44,065 --> 00:24:47,777 A lot of it comes from the insecurities that the, the job 482 00:24:47,861 --> 00:24:51,323 security of if I hoard this information, they can't get rid of me. 483 00:24:52,115 --> 00:24:55,118 also just that pride of I did this, it's mine. 484 00:24:55,994 --> 00:24:58,622 But that really 485 00:24:58,622 --> 00:25:02,792 inhibits the ability to collaborate and innovate. 486 00:25:03,585 --> 00:25:06,880 And so cutting down those silos and being a leader who 487 00:25:07,964 --> 00:25:10,967 really promotes cross-pollination 488 00:25:11,051 --> 00:25:14,262 as much as you possibly can, so that people who aren't 489 00:25:14,262 --> 00:25:18,099 used to working with one another can get to know their styles and get to know 490 00:25:18,099 --> 00:25:22,437 other departments and teams and dynamics, the more you can do that 491 00:25:23,188 --> 00:25:26,149 and integrate that into your culture, the better 492 00:25:26,149 --> 00:25:29,653 your collaboration is going to be, which will then impact your innovation. 493 00:25:30,987 --> 00:25:31,655 Because 494 00:25:31,655 --> 00:25:34,449 if I can just for one second say that, you know, 495 00:25:34,449 --> 00:25:38,119 one of the reasons people don't want to change out of the myriad, 496 00:25:38,286 --> 00:25:40,622 one of the reasons is like they don't see the why, 497 00:25:40,622 --> 00:25:42,457 but if they know the people in the other groups 498 00:25:42,457 --> 00:25:45,710 and this is now going to really impact those people in a positive way, 499 00:25:45,961 --> 00:25:50,257 and they know those people, that changes the why for them drastically. 500 00:25:50,257 --> 00:25:52,509 This isn't just isn't. That interesting vision. 501 00:25:52,509 --> 00:25:55,053 Now I, I, I'm going to help Mindy. 502 00:25:55,053 --> 00:25:57,097 This is going to help George. Yep. 503 00:25:57,097 --> 00:25:59,015 That's huge. 504 00:25:59,015 --> 00:26:01,685 And we don't think about that nearly absolutely. 505 00:26:01,685 --> 00:26:03,186 You hit the nail on the head. 506 00:26:03,186 --> 00:26:05,605 Absolutely. It's no longer the guy in accounting. 507 00:26:05,605 --> 00:26:08,358 It's George 100%. 508 00:26:08,358 --> 00:26:10,485 And I'm in George's radio room doing the show today. 509 00:26:10,485 --> 00:26:10,986 So there we go. 510 00:26:12,279 --> 00:26:13,446 George George won't do this, 511 00:26:13,446 --> 00:26:16,449 but I'll be so, so here's the, 512 00:26:17,617 --> 00:26:18,243 here's the thing. 513 00:26:18,243 --> 00:26:22,247 Everyone that's on this, this, this watching, listening whenever 514 00:26:22,914 --> 00:26:25,375 is dealing with some change, whether it's themselves, 515 00:26:25,375 --> 00:26:27,586 whether it's organizational change, whether the leader, 516 00:26:27,586 --> 00:26:30,255 whether it's being thrust on them doesn't matter what you're dealing with it. 517 00:26:30,255 --> 00:26:34,175 And so I'm going to ask you the most unfair question I could possibly ask you, 518 00:26:34,301 --> 00:26:37,304 based on what you've learned and what you've written, 519 00:26:38,013 --> 00:26:41,891 wherever we are and change, what should we do next? 520 00:26:42,517 --> 00:26:45,520 Like, do you have something that wherever we're at in it, 521 00:26:46,646 --> 00:26:49,649 if you could whisper in our ear, what would you tell us? 522 00:26:50,775 --> 00:26:52,569 I would tell you to celebrate 523 00:26:52,569 --> 00:26:55,572 your small wins as you get them. 524 00:26:55,822 --> 00:26:59,743 I would say for every step forward, 525 00:27:00,535 --> 00:27:04,789 even if you take three steps back after you took a step forward 526 00:27:05,373 --> 00:27:08,084 and and celebrate those small wins, 527 00:27:08,084 --> 00:27:12,422 even if it's at a self high five for a pat on the back 528 00:27:12,672 --> 00:27:16,301 or if it's with your team, let them know that was a that was a win. 529 00:27:16,635 --> 00:27:19,179 It may seem insignificant, but it was a win. 530 00:27:19,179 --> 00:27:20,680 We're going to take it. 531 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:25,935 Because what that then does is it it's that dopamine endorphin rush. 532 00:27:25,935 --> 00:27:29,356 It it fuels our brain to want more. 533 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:31,066 And and 534 00:27:31,066 --> 00:27:34,027 so we cannot forget we're not giving trophies out. 535 00:27:34,069 --> 00:27:35,612 We're not giving awards. 536 00:27:35,612 --> 00:27:37,238 We're not giving gift cards. 537 00:27:37,238 --> 00:27:39,532 We're simply saying that was a win. 538 00:27:39,532 --> 00:27:40,325 That was a win. 539 00:27:40,325 --> 00:27:42,577 We moved forward. 540 00:27:42,577 --> 00:27:45,330 And I think that sometimes, 541 00:27:45,330 --> 00:27:47,624 as leaders, we discount the wins. 542 00:27:47,624 --> 00:27:51,461 But also we assume they see the win that we saw and they don't. 543 00:27:51,670 --> 00:27:52,796 Right. Because their perspective. 544 00:27:52,796 --> 00:27:56,466 And that's not that people are aren't smart and wise experienced. 545 00:27:56,466 --> 00:27:59,302 It means that they have a different perspective than we do as leaders. 546 00:27:59,302 --> 00:28:00,095 It's important 547 00:28:00,095 --> 00:28:03,056 not only for us to remember to do it in general and to do it for ourselves, but 548 00:28:03,056 --> 00:28:06,059 as leaders don't assume they see it 549 00:28:06,851 --> 00:28:08,353 right. Don't assume they see it. 550 00:28:08,353 --> 00:28:10,647 Don't assume you're absolutely right. 551 00:28:10,647 --> 00:28:11,981 Mindy. Is there anything that 552 00:28:13,358 --> 00:28:16,361 I didn't ask that you wish I would have? 553 00:28:17,529 --> 00:28:21,491 I think the only thing that we didn't talk a whole lot about, that I really love 554 00:28:21,491 --> 00:28:24,577 to focus on, not just in my book, but with my clients as well. 555 00:28:24,577 --> 00:28:29,416 Is that issue of self-awareness, of how do we increase 556 00:28:29,999 --> 00:28:33,503 our own level of self-awareness to become a better leader. 557 00:28:33,628 --> 00:28:37,924 And to that I would simply say, you know, really, really be intentional 558 00:28:38,758 --> 00:28:41,761 about knowing what kind of a leader you want to be 559 00:28:42,762 --> 00:28:46,891 and then understanding how you are perceived by those around you. 560 00:28:46,975 --> 00:28:49,561 And you can do that. I'm a Hogan leadership coach. 561 00:28:49,561 --> 00:28:51,104 I do that through my coaching. 562 00:28:51,104 --> 00:28:54,607 You can do that in multiple different platforms with different people. 563 00:28:54,899 --> 00:28:58,486 But to understand reputation 564 00:28:58,820 --> 00:29:02,115 versus perception and identity, 565 00:29:03,032 --> 00:29:05,368 that's critical in in really 566 00:29:05,368 --> 00:29:09,372 building your a leader brand and getting people to understand 567 00:29:09,581 --> 00:29:12,667 who you are showing up consistently every day. 568 00:29:14,753 --> 00:29:15,253 As you 569 00:29:15,253 --> 00:29:19,090 become more self-aware, you will become a better leader. 570 00:29:19,090 --> 00:29:21,760 There's a there's no doubt about it. 571 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,345 I mean, unless you become more self-aware and just ignore it all, 572 00:29:24,345 --> 00:29:26,598 but then you're really not self-aware. 573 00:29:26,598 --> 00:29:30,059 so I've just got a couple more questions for you, Mindy, before we finish. 574 00:29:30,435 --> 00:29:33,480 And the first and the next two are things I ask everybody. 575 00:29:33,980 --> 00:29:36,441 what do you do for fun, Mindy? 576 00:29:36,441 --> 00:29:38,234 I actually love to hike. 577 00:29:38,234 --> 00:29:42,989 I live in the Pacific Northwest, where we have beautiful hiking trails 578 00:29:43,364 --> 00:29:48,036 and lakes and, for us, Mount Rainier, Mount hood. 579 00:29:48,453 --> 00:29:51,039 That's one of my absolute favorite pastimes. 580 00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:52,832 now that summer, I like to get out on the lake 581 00:29:52,832 --> 00:29:54,793 and paddle board, which we're doing this weekend. 582 00:29:54,793 --> 00:29:59,088 So outside, outdoors, my dog goes paddleboarding with me. 583 00:29:59,714 --> 00:30:01,883 it's it's all about the outdoors for me. 584 00:30:03,092 --> 00:30:05,595 And the only thing you knew I was going to ask you is this question. 585 00:30:05,595 --> 00:30:07,514 What are you reading these days? 586 00:30:07,514 --> 00:30:10,517 So, oddly, I am rereading a book. 587 00:30:11,351 --> 00:30:14,771 that may sound funny to some people, but others 588 00:30:14,771 --> 00:30:16,898 who know me will totally understand this. 589 00:30:16,898 --> 00:30:19,901 And it is, Dave Grohl's from the Foo Fighters. 590 00:30:19,901 --> 00:30:24,155 The storyteller and I have audio listened to it, 591 00:30:24,155 --> 00:30:28,701 and now I'm going back and reading parts that I really enjoy. 592 00:30:28,701 --> 00:30:30,286 And the reason for this is not only 593 00:30:30,286 --> 00:30:33,289 is it a personal narrative, which I love, I love nonfiction. 594 00:30:34,541 --> 00:30:36,251 There's insights into the music industry, 595 00:30:36,251 --> 00:30:39,796 which is fascinating, but it's also really funny. 596 00:30:40,213 --> 00:30:42,841 And, and, and there's a sharp wit to it. 597 00:30:42,841 --> 00:30:47,804 And there's universal themes that anybody, regardless of 598 00:30:47,804 --> 00:30:53,309 what music genre you love or what industry you work in, it resonates. 599 00:30:53,309 --> 00:30:56,312 And so I'm going back and kind of picking things out 600 00:30:56,980 --> 00:31:00,024 that I remember I love the first time and seeing if they still resonate. 601 00:31:00,692 --> 00:31:01,109 Awesome. 602 00:31:02,068 --> 00:31:04,070 I everybody I ask this question of every year 603 00:31:04,070 --> 00:31:07,240 because I my whole life I've asked people I look up to people 604 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,909 that I think are really smart, what are you reading? And then forever. 605 00:31:09,909 --> 00:31:11,619 And when I started the show, I started doing it. 606 00:31:11,619 --> 00:31:14,205 And I love it when I get, 607 00:31:14,205 --> 00:31:17,333 a book that, we've never had on the show. 608 00:31:17,333 --> 00:31:20,086 I mean, sometimes we have books that have not been mentioned. Mindy. 609 00:31:20,086 --> 00:31:23,089 Several times, this book has never been mentioned. 610 00:31:23,256 --> 00:31:25,091 Oh, there you go. I love that. 611 00:31:25,091 --> 00:31:26,342 I love doing different. 612 00:31:26,342 --> 00:31:27,635 And everybody, you know, 613 00:31:27,635 --> 00:31:31,931 I read every one of the my guests, I read their book, I read other stuff. 614 00:31:32,015 --> 00:31:35,310 And then I get these new recommendations from all these smart people 615 00:31:35,310 --> 00:31:37,687 that are on the show. But anyway, there you go. 616 00:31:37,687 --> 00:31:39,939 but, Mindy, let's not just talk about somebody else's book. 617 00:31:39,939 --> 00:31:42,901 Let's talk about yours before we finish. 618 00:31:42,901 --> 00:31:45,278 where do you want to point people? 619 00:31:45,278 --> 00:31:47,113 where can people learn more about you? 620 00:31:47,113 --> 00:31:50,116 What do you want to tell people before we start to finish up here? 621 00:31:50,325 --> 00:31:51,576 Thank you for that. 622 00:31:51,576 --> 00:31:54,287 The mineshaft effect is my book, 623 00:31:54,287 --> 00:31:58,499 and you can go to Amazon, purchase it on Amazon. 624 00:31:58,875 --> 00:32:02,253 And then I also have my website which is the mineshaft effect. 625 00:32:02,253 --> 00:32:06,466 Com and then you can find me on LinkedIn as well, either Mindy Vale 626 00:32:06,549 --> 00:32:08,301 or at the Mineshaft Effect. 627 00:32:09,636 --> 00:32:12,096 The mind shift effect.com. 628 00:32:12,096 --> 00:32:15,099 Everybody or any place fine books are sold. 629 00:32:15,558 --> 00:32:18,561 you can get your copy and I hope that you'll do that. 630 00:32:19,103 --> 00:32:22,482 now I have a question for all of you who are watching or listening. 631 00:32:23,107 --> 00:32:26,861 you've had the chance to listen to Mindy, and I have this conversation 632 00:32:26,861 --> 00:32:30,073 for about the last 30 minutes, and that's wonderful. 633 00:32:30,406 --> 00:32:33,284 But what's more wonderful is what action will you take as a result? 634 00:32:33,284 --> 00:32:36,496 So my favorite two word question is now what? 635 00:32:36,996 --> 00:32:42,585 What will you do now that you've gotten the new ideas that you've just heard? 636 00:32:42,794 --> 00:32:44,504 What actions might you take? 637 00:32:44,504 --> 00:32:46,089 What what notes did you take? 638 00:32:46,089 --> 00:32:49,384 And maybe you're biking or you're driving or you're cooking. 639 00:32:49,717 --> 00:32:51,594 What what mental notes did you take? 640 00:32:51,594 --> 00:32:55,556 You need to take a minute now to say, what action will I take as a result? 641 00:32:55,556 --> 00:32:56,516 Because if you don't, 642 00:32:57,892 --> 00:32:59,477 this will have been entertaining. 643 00:32:59,477 --> 00:33:02,480 Perhaps inspiring maybe, 644 00:33:02,522 --> 00:33:06,442 but not adding great long term value. 645 00:33:06,442 --> 00:33:08,277 If you don't happens when you take action. 646 00:33:08,277 --> 00:33:10,571 I hope that you will do that. 647 00:33:10,571 --> 00:33:11,823 Mindy, thanks so much for being here. 648 00:33:11,823 --> 00:33:13,908 It's a pleasure to have you. 649 00:33:13,908 --> 00:33:15,076 Thank you so much for having me. 650 00:33:15,076 --> 00:33:17,120 It was great. I had a lot of fun. 651 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:18,037 It was my pleasure. 652 00:33:18,037 --> 00:33:21,040 And so, everybody, if you liked this, you should come back next week. 653 00:33:21,541 --> 00:33:24,127 and if you like this and you are thinking of someone else 654 00:33:24,127 --> 00:33:26,379 that needs to have heard, this, will then please invite them. 655 00:33:26,379 --> 00:33:29,924 So wherever you are watching this, we'll be back. 656 00:33:30,008 --> 00:33:33,761 If you're on the podcast, wherever you get your podcasts, we're here every week, 657 00:33:34,053 --> 00:33:38,599 so come back next week for another episode of the Remarkable Leadership Podcast.