1 00:00:01,790 --> 00:00:04,490 Jared Beaver: In the heart of America's grasslands, a battle 2 00:00:04,500 --> 00:00:05,920 for survival is unfolding. 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:11,559 The lesser prairie chicken, an iconic species of the Great Plains, 4 00:00:11,740 --> 00:00:13,780 is on the brink of extinction. 5 00:00:13,940 --> 00:00:18,049 Ted Koch: If you imagine Native Americans and European settlers traveling across 6 00:00:18,049 --> 00:00:22,309 the southwestern Great Plains through this endless sea of grass, feeding themselves 7 00:00:22,309 --> 00:00:26,640 on lesser prairie chickens, they never could have imagined the day that all 8 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,670 that would be left is postage stamps of prairies and an endangered species. 9 00:00:32,259 --> 00:00:32,949 But that's where we are. 10 00:00:33,480 --> 00:00:36,269 Hallie Mahowald: And yet there's a growing network of producers and partners 11 00:00:36,269 --> 00:00:38,670 across the plains looking to change that. 12 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,089 Ted Koch: The only places they are left today are where these caring ranchers 13 00:00:43,089 --> 00:00:47,610 are stewarding the habitat and stewarding the landscape and stewarding these 14 00:00:47,614 --> 00:00:49,050 native prairies, keeping them there. 15 00:00:49,709 --> 00:00:52,560 Jared Beaver: And today we're gonna meet a few of these stewards. 16 00:00:52,649 --> 00:00:55,200 Bryce Peterson: I think everybody that ranches knows that, uh. 17 00:00:55,670 --> 00:01:00,420 If done in the right way, if grazing is planned in the right way, that it is 18 00:01:00,430 --> 00:01:02,650 nothing but a benefit to the landscape. 19 00:01:03,110 --> 00:01:04,039 I can't dictate what 20 00:01:04,039 --> 00:01:07,519 Bret Riley: a chicken's going to do, but I can build them a home, and I can 21 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,810 build a habitat, and I can make it, you know, desirable for them to be there. 22 00:01:11,889 --> 00:01:15,569 I think if we would open our eyes as a society and look at who's going 23 00:01:15,569 --> 00:01:18,815 to be the one that's going to lead this, This ecological revolution, 24 00:01:18,905 --> 00:01:19,955 it's going to be the producer. 25 00:01:20,365 --> 00:01:23,495 Hallie Mahowald: And in a landscape that is 90 percent privately owned, 26 00:01:23,505 --> 00:01:28,024 the conservation challenges we face today demand new solutions, like how 27 00:01:28,025 --> 00:01:29,775 do we fund this important stewardship? 28 00:01:29,824 --> 00:01:32,785 Jared Beaver: And how do we work to recover a species while 29 00:01:32,785 --> 00:01:36,235 supporting the communities that are on the ground doing the work? 30 00:01:36,664 --> 00:01:39,455 Kris Hulvey: In this time when we're trying to address a lot of 31 00:01:39,455 --> 00:01:43,885 conservation problems across the country, that kind of innovation, 32 00:01:43,885 --> 00:01:45,094 I think is where we need to go. 33 00:01:46,345 --> 00:01:50,555 Jared Beaver: Welcome back to Working Wild U, a show about the people and 34 00:01:50,555 --> 00:01:55,254 wildlife of the American West from the crossroads of culture and science. 35 00:01:55,255 --> 00:01:55,624 I'm Hallie 36 00:01:55,625 --> 00:01:59,405 Hallie Mahowald: Mahold, Chief Programs Officer at Western Landowners Alliance. 37 00:01:59,445 --> 00:02:03,475 We are a network of landowners, managers, and partners dedicated to keeping the 38 00:02:03,475 --> 00:02:04,984 working lands of the American West. 39 00:02:05,270 --> 00:02:08,729 Whole and healthy for the benefit of both people and wildlife. 40 00:02:08,810 --> 00:02:12,370 Jared Beaver: And I'm Jared Beaver, assistant professor and extension wildlife 41 00:02:12,370 --> 00:02:14,530 specialist at Montana State University. 42 00:02:14,940 --> 00:02:18,789 My work focuses on identifying and improving conservation efforts in 43 00:02:18,810 --> 00:02:22,869 areas where people and wildlife share the landscape, a place 44 00:02:22,870 --> 00:02:25,074 many folks call the working wild. 45 00:02:25,304 --> 00:02:27,605 Hallie Mahowald: Today on the show, can ranchers and partners 46 00:02:27,605 --> 00:02:30,864 work together to save the lesser prairie chicken while supporting 47 00:02:30,864 --> 00:02:32,635 their livelihoods and communities? 48 00:02:32,765 --> 00:02:35,295 Jared Beaver: We're headed to eastern New Mexico to find out. 49 00:02:35,435 --> 00:02:37,435 Hallie Mahowald: Our show continues after the break. 50 00:02:44,054 --> 00:02:46,834 Charlotte - UF: Working Wild U is a proud part of Natural Resources 51 00:02:46,834 --> 00:02:50,674 University, a podcast network delivering science based information 52 00:02:50,694 --> 00:02:52,174 for your natural resource management. 53 00:02:52,914 --> 00:02:56,135 Other current network series include Timber University, Fish 54 00:02:56,135 --> 00:03:00,750 University, Deer University, Fire University, and Habitat University. 55 00:03:01,170 --> 00:03:03,120 Available wherever you get your podcasts. 56 00:03:05,780 --> 00:03:09,930 Jared Beaver: The best known conservation stories often involve a sudden and very 57 00:03:09,940 --> 00:03:12,160 visible threat to a species survival. 58 00:03:12,785 --> 00:03:16,565 One of the most well known examples is the case of the bald eagle, and the 59 00:03:16,565 --> 00:03:19,185 widespread use of the pesticide DDT. 60 00:03:19,725 --> 00:03:23,595 Hallie Mahowald: DDT, introduced in the 1940s, was used extensively 61 00:03:23,595 --> 00:03:25,605 in agriculture to control insects. 62 00:03:26,054 --> 00:03:29,064 However, its impact on wildlife, particularly birds 63 00:03:29,064 --> 00:03:30,785 of prey, soon became apparent. 64 00:03:31,230 --> 00:03:34,990 Jared Beaver: DDT accumulated in the food chain, causing bald eagles 65 00:03:34,990 --> 00:03:38,370 and other birds to ingest high concentrations of the chemical. 66 00:03:38,769 --> 00:03:42,670 This led to reproductive problems, including thin eggshells, which 67 00:03:42,699 --> 00:03:44,570 often broke before hatching. 68 00:03:45,029 --> 00:03:48,280 Hallie Mahowald: As a result, bald eagle populations plummeted. 69 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:53,860 Prompting a listing under the Endangered Species Preservation Act in 1967. 70 00:03:54,030 --> 00:03:56,730 This was a predecessor to the Endangered Species Act. 71 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,759 Jared Beaver: Soon after, DDT was banned by the Environmental Protection Agency. 72 00:04:02,070 --> 00:04:06,039 This ban, coupled with conservation efforts mandated by the Endangered 73 00:04:06,039 --> 00:04:10,485 Species Act, Allowed bald eagle populations to make a remarkable recovery. 74 00:04:15,555 --> 00:04:18,505 Hallie Mahowald: It's a textbook conservation success story, with 75 00:04:18,505 --> 00:04:20,495 a beginning, middle, and end. 76 00:04:20,894 --> 00:04:25,305 It's simple, the cause DDT, and the effect thin eggshells. 77 00:04:25,844 --> 00:04:27,955 Easy for us to wrap our heads around. 78 00:04:31,325 --> 00:04:34,965 Jared Beaver: But as we are discovering this season, what if the cause and effects 79 00:04:34,965 --> 00:04:37,125 impacting a species are less clear? 80 00:04:37,660 --> 00:04:40,640 What if there are a hundred causes and a hundred different effects? 81 00:04:40,670 --> 00:04:45,880 And what if the story is in slow motion, every day happening right before our eyes? 82 00:04:46,150 --> 00:04:48,790 Hallie Mahowald: That is the conservation challenge of our time. 83 00:04:49,350 --> 00:04:54,939 Not grabby headlines or juicy sound bites, no quick and simple solutions. 84 00:04:55,409 --> 00:05:00,099 Multifaceted problems often call for multifaceted solutions. 85 00:05:00,439 --> 00:05:02,729 Jared Beaver: This is the story of the Lesser Prairie Chicken. 86 00:05:02,830 --> 00:05:05,400 Bear with us, there are a lot of threads to this story. 87 00:05:05,879 --> 00:05:10,009 The approach to saving the bird is so holistic that at times it may be 88 00:05:10,019 --> 00:05:14,609 difficult to see just how everything connects back, but we will get there. 89 00:05:14,659 --> 00:05:17,329 Hallie Mahowald: And be warned, you'll find no quick fixes or 90 00:05:17,329 --> 00:05:19,199 simple answers in today's episode. 91 00:05:19,625 --> 00:05:23,095 Instead, we'll witness the daily beat of collaborative conservation. 92 00:05:23,465 --> 00:05:27,295 The quiet, thankless work of building trust, building community. 93 00:05:29,070 --> 00:05:32,460 Jared Beaver: This isn't the end of the story for the Lesser Prairie Chicken. 94 00:05:32,740 --> 00:05:34,900 This is only the beginning. 95 00:05:41,350 --> 00:05:45,670 Before dawn on the high plains of eastern New Mexico, Megan Nastow, 96 00:05:45,730 --> 00:05:50,000 a research scientist with Working Lands Conservation, was on a mission. 97 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:51,770 Megan Nasto: I really wanted to see a chicken. 98 00:05:52,050 --> 00:05:54,690 Hallie Mahowald: We're talking about the Lesser Prairie Chicken, a species of 99 00:05:54,690 --> 00:05:58,460 prairie grouse endemic to the southern and central plains of the United States. 100 00:05:58,710 --> 00:06:05,220 Megan Nasto: So, before even starting our 10 hour workday of collecting soil. 101 00:06:05,580 --> 00:06:07,600 You know, we woke up at like 3 a. 102 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:07,840 m. 103 00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:08,440 or 4 a. 104 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:13,275 m., got in the truck, Um, packed up, you know, a thermos of coffee 105 00:06:13,315 --> 00:06:15,525 and just went searching for leks. 106 00:06:15,845 --> 00:06:19,785 Jared Beaver: Leks are areas where male birds congregate to attract 107 00:06:19,824 --> 00:06:23,705 and compete for females during mating season in the early spring. 108 00:06:23,895 --> 00:06:27,004 Megan Nasto: We would just choose a dirt road, drive down the dirt road, 109 00:06:27,014 --> 00:06:30,305 and then stop, kill the engine, roll down the windows, and see if we could 110 00:06:30,315 --> 00:06:35,405 hear that characteristic booming sound that the chickens make in the morning. 111 00:06:36,095 --> 00:06:39,325 And of course, the first day we did this, we didn't hear anything, 112 00:06:39,845 --> 00:06:44,335 but I was determined so that we went out the following morning and 113 00:06:44,345 --> 00:06:45,485 did the whole thing over again. 114 00:06:45,495 --> 00:06:47,885 And this time we actually did hear the booming. 115 00:06:56,994 --> 00:07:01,484 Then we got out and we sort of crept as slowly as we could across 116 00:07:01,485 --> 00:07:04,575 the rangeland or trying to make as little noise as we possibly could. 117 00:07:05,245 --> 00:07:06,805 We didn't want to get too close. 118 00:07:07,315 --> 00:07:09,315 that we were going to scare them off. 119 00:07:09,534 --> 00:07:14,875 We just sat right down in the in the grasses and we just kept listening. 120 00:07:16,815 --> 00:07:20,814 After five or ten minutes of hearing their booming over and over again, we pulled out 121 00:07:20,815 --> 00:07:24,664 our binoculars and that's when I actually got to see them for the first time. 122 00:07:25,945 --> 00:07:26,224 Lesser Prairie-Chicken: We 123 00:07:29,105 --> 00:07:35,430 Megan Nasto: would see The males sort of jump just above the the height of 124 00:07:35,430 --> 00:07:38,640 the grasses and boom come back down and jump above and come back down 125 00:07:38,650 --> 00:07:40,230 and jump above and come back down. 126 00:07:40,540 --> 00:07:44,330 It was so cool to finally see because they're just these neat beautiful little 127 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:51,070 birds that are so important but so elusive and it was in a pasture that had grazing 128 00:07:51,070 --> 00:07:56,840 too so there was a there was a lek there where cattle you know rear cattle graze 129 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:01,104 and It just, it helped me really connect to the importance of this project. 130 00:08:17,684 --> 00:08:19,974 Hallie Mahowald: So we've talked a lot this season about the 131 00:08:19,974 --> 00:08:23,854 plight of our grasslands, the most imperiled ecosystem on the planet. 132 00:08:24,504 --> 00:08:27,224 And that slow motion decline of lesser prairie chickens? 133 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,379 For the most part, it's driven by habitat loss. 134 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,900 Jared Beaver: This habitat loss originates from the patterns and policies of land 135 00:08:36,900 --> 00:08:38,919 settlement history in the United States. 136 00:08:39,319 --> 00:08:40,500 Think of the Homestead Act. 137 00:08:40,770 --> 00:08:44,730 As a result of that history, the plains are largely privately owned. 138 00:08:44,850 --> 00:08:47,230 Hallie Mahowald: And we're not just plowing up the plains for farming. 139 00:08:47,430 --> 00:08:50,099 Development of homes and cities, oil and gas, and more. 140 00:08:50,150 --> 00:08:53,470 and poor land management have contributed to the decline of America's 141 00:08:53,470 --> 00:08:57,830 grassland biome, down to just 40 percent of what we had a century ago. 142 00:08:58,420 --> 00:09:01,360 And much of that remaining grassland is fragmented. 143 00:09:01,430 --> 00:09:05,750 Jared Beaver: In essence, we humans derive a lot of our basic needs from the plains. 144 00:09:06,050 --> 00:09:10,620 Food, fiber, fuel, and shelter are all at the top of that list. 145 00:09:11,189 --> 00:09:13,800 Hallie Mahowald: It's no surprise that a lot of species that depend 146 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:15,480 on grasslands aren't doing well. 147 00:09:15,795 --> 00:09:18,005 And that includes prairie grouse species. 148 00:09:18,775 --> 00:09:23,395 Ted Koch: Historically, we had six prairie grouse species in North America. 149 00:09:24,205 --> 00:09:28,595 And today, three of them are either extinct or endangered, and 150 00:09:28,595 --> 00:09:30,055 the other three are declining. 151 00:09:30,655 --> 00:09:31,765 Jared Beaver: That's Ted Cook. 152 00:09:31,964 --> 00:09:35,455 He's the executive director of the North American Grouse Partnership. 153 00:09:35,885 --> 00:09:39,895 And before he retired a few years back, he worked for 30 years as an 154 00:09:39,895 --> 00:09:42,415 endangered species biologist with the U. 155 00:09:42,415 --> 00:09:42,615 S. 156 00:09:42,625 --> 00:09:43,844 Fish and Wildlife Service. 157 00:09:44,060 --> 00:09:47,280 Ted Koch: Of the six prairie grouse species, you know, heath hens in the east 158 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:48,800 have been extinct for over a century. 159 00:09:49,770 --> 00:09:52,959 Atwater's prairie chickens on the Texas coast are functionally extinct in the 160 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,069 wild, and then there's lesser prairie chickens that were just listed under 161 00:09:56,070 --> 00:09:59,209 the Endangered Species Act, and then the other three that aren't yet there but are 162 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,630 getting closer are sage grouse, which a lot of folks have heard about, and then 163 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,220 greater prairie chickens and sharp tailed grouse, which can still be locally common. 164 00:10:07,675 --> 00:10:11,895 but have, uh, declined in range and in abundance, uh, from historical levels. 165 00:10:12,145 --> 00:10:14,095 Hallie Mahowald: Prairie grouse, including lesser prairie 166 00:10:14,095 --> 00:10:16,565 chickens, need wide open spaces. 167 00:10:16,925 --> 00:10:20,915 And according to Grant Beaupre, a lesser prairie chicken biologist with 168 00:10:20,915 --> 00:10:25,115 New Mexico Game and Fish Department, habitat fragmentation to a chicken 169 00:10:25,424 --> 00:10:27,665 can be as subtle as a telephone pole. 170 00:10:27,785 --> 00:10:31,905 Grant Beauprez: A prairie chicken evolved with just really not 171 00:10:31,905 --> 00:10:33,425 even trees on the landscape. 172 00:10:34,025 --> 00:10:40,475 And so research has shown that prairie chickens exhibit avoidance behavior. 173 00:10:40,485 --> 00:10:46,514 So you stick a tower up in the middle of the prairie, even if it's shorter 174 00:10:46,515 --> 00:10:52,464 than a wind tower, say it's a, it's a telephone pole or line, um, they will 175 00:10:52,465 --> 00:10:58,245 avoid that by a certain distance and won't use the habitat surrounding it, 176 00:10:58,295 --> 00:11:00,505 whether that habitat is good or not. 177 00:11:00,535 --> 00:11:04,345 So predator may or may not be on that perch, but the chicken thinks it's a 178 00:11:04,454 --> 00:11:06,394 threat because the predator might be. 179 00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:08,100 Looking for them on that thing. 180 00:11:08,590 --> 00:11:13,030 Hallie Mahowald: So a few structures that seem spaced out and unobtrusive to 181 00:11:13,030 --> 00:11:18,570 us may make an entire section of land uninhabitable for lesser prairie chickens. 182 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,710 Jared Beaver: And it's not just development and fragmentation 183 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:23,080 that have impacted the bird. 184 00:11:23,370 --> 00:11:27,640 Poor land management such as overgrazing and a century of fire suppression 185 00:11:27,839 --> 00:11:31,370 have allowed for woody encroachment of plants like shinery oak and 186 00:11:31,370 --> 00:11:36,099 mesquite to dominate huge sections of what was once a sea of grass. 187 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,444 Grant Beauprez: There's some very good research that Sean, if you remove 188 00:11:39,444 --> 00:11:43,135 the mesquite, prairie chickens will move back in and use that habitat 189 00:11:43,135 --> 00:11:47,645 again, but they won't tolerate more than like one tree per acre. 190 00:11:48,084 --> 00:11:51,604 Hallie Mahowald: So all of these changes, oil and gas development, cultivated 191 00:11:51,604 --> 00:11:55,904 agriculture, homes and roads, and poor land management have put the lesser 192 00:11:55,904 --> 00:11:57,435 prairie chicken in the crosshairs. 193 00:11:57,504 --> 00:12:00,045 Jared Beaver: While historic estimates suggest the lesser prairie 194 00:12:00,045 --> 00:12:03,754 chicken numbered in hundreds of thousands or possibly even millions. 195 00:12:04,189 --> 00:12:08,099 Surveys today indicate there are now around 30, 000 to 40, 000 birds. 196 00:12:08,380 --> 00:12:12,510 Ted Koch: If you imagine Native Americans and European settlers traveling across 197 00:12:12,510 --> 00:12:16,760 the southwestern Great Plains through this endless sea of grass, feeding themselves 198 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:21,089 on lesser prairie chickens, they never could have imagined the day that all 199 00:12:21,090 --> 00:12:25,020 that would be left is postage stamps of prairies and an endangered species. 200 00:12:25,550 --> 00:12:26,359 But that's where we are. 201 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,489 Hallie Mahowald: So when it comes to lesser prairie chickens, we have 202 00:12:29,489 --> 00:12:33,079 an understanding of the problem and the many contributing causes. 203 00:12:33,079 --> 00:12:35,405 For So what about the solutions? 204 00:12:35,705 --> 00:12:40,835 Where are lesser prairie chickens doing well, and how can we support more of that? 205 00:12:41,305 --> 00:12:44,754 Grant Beauprez: I mean, honestly, we wouldn't have prairie chickens 206 00:12:44,754 --> 00:12:49,185 in this state in the numbers that we do today if we didn't have private 207 00:12:49,185 --> 00:12:53,704 landowners doing the conservation measures on their private property. 208 00:12:53,935 --> 00:12:56,935 Ted Koch: The only places they are left today are where these caring 209 00:12:56,935 --> 00:12:58,589 rangers are stewarding the land. 210 00:12:58,910 --> 00:13:01,950 The habitat and stewarding the landscape and stewarding these 211 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:03,390 native prairies, keeping them there. 212 00:13:03,820 --> 00:13:06,400 Jared Beaver: And native prairies are important for other reasons. 213 00:13:06,500 --> 00:13:10,680 Not only do they support wildlife such as lesser prairie chickens, but grasslands 214 00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:12,750 support human communities as well. 215 00:13:13,010 --> 00:13:16,740 And well managed grasslands have the potential to sequester carbon. 216 00:13:17,180 --> 00:13:20,190 This has implications for not only our planet, but for the 217 00:13:20,220 --> 00:13:24,080 economics of land stewardship and conservation going forward. 218 00:13:24,260 --> 00:13:26,990 Hallie Mahowald: And that's what's coming up next, after the break. 219 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:31,370 We're exploring a collaborative conservation success story in the making. 220 00:13:32,890 --> 00:13:34,630 Western Landowners Alliance: We're in a new chapter of conservation. 221 00:13:34,990 --> 00:13:38,349 In the first chapter of conservation in this country, you had 222 00:13:38,350 --> 00:13:40,149 wilderness and then you had city. 223 00:13:40,655 --> 00:13:43,944 But today, more and more, we understand that there's this very 224 00:13:43,944 --> 00:13:46,655 important piece in the middle that we call the working landscape. 225 00:13:46,895 --> 00:13:49,764 Working Wild U Producer Zach Altman: That is Lesli Allison, CEO of 226 00:13:49,764 --> 00:13:51,464 the Western Landowners Alliance. 227 00:13:52,055 --> 00:13:53,975 Western Landowners Alliance: These are the places that provide our food, 228 00:13:54,244 --> 00:13:58,044 our fiber, they provide the jobs that sustain the rural communities. 229 00:13:58,425 --> 00:14:01,854 These things are incredibly important and they're disappearing, and that's 230 00:14:01,854 --> 00:14:03,514 really our next challenge going forward. 231 00:14:03,514 --> 00:14:07,635 We have to think beyond protected wilderness, and you can't do that 232 00:14:07,675 --> 00:14:09,204 unless you're engaging the people. 233 00:14:09,490 --> 00:14:12,520 In those landscapes, first and foremost in that solution. 234 00:14:13,115 --> 00:14:15,375 Working Wild U Producer Zach Altman: Led by the people on the ground, Western 235 00:14:15,375 --> 00:14:20,625 Landowners Alliance advances policies and practices that sustain working lands, 236 00:14:20,824 --> 00:14:23,125 connected landscapes, and native species. 237 00:14:23,595 --> 00:14:25,615 Western Landowners Alliance: What we're seeing in the West today is incredibly 238 00:14:25,615 --> 00:14:30,644 hopeful because you do see collaborations, working with partners, trying to realize 239 00:14:30,704 --> 00:14:32,374 this vision that's so important to us. 240 00:14:32,894 --> 00:14:36,485 I think many places in the rural West are actually leading the way on this. 241 00:14:36,755 --> 00:14:37,605 Working Wild U Producer Zach Altman: And so can you. 242 00:14:38,115 --> 00:14:39,145 Join us and learn more at 243 00:14:43,905 --> 00:14:48,045 Jared Beaver: In eastern New Mexico, a group of ranchers, non profits, state 244 00:14:48,045 --> 00:14:52,564 and federal agencies, all these partners are coming together to strengthen the 245 00:14:52,564 --> 00:14:57,275 connections of land stewardship, healthy souls and supporting wildlife habitat. 246 00:14:58,135 --> 00:15:00,945 Hallie Mahowald: Let's kick off by meeting one of the ranchers at the 247 00:15:01,025 --> 00:15:03,165 center of this collaborative initiative. 248 00:15:03,385 --> 00:15:04,305 Bryce Peterson: I'm Bryce Peterson. 249 00:15:04,305 --> 00:15:05,885 I'm a rancher in eastern New Mexico. 250 00:15:06,865 --> 00:15:08,314 I grew up in ranching. 251 00:15:08,365 --> 00:15:11,254 Uh, my ranching family comes from Colorado. 252 00:15:11,785 --> 00:15:15,635 Moved here in 1999 to the Mill and Sand area. 253 00:15:16,820 --> 00:15:21,810 My grandpa acquired a ranch there, um, in the prairie chicken habitat 254 00:15:21,810 --> 00:15:23,300 that we didn't even know was there. 255 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:29,079 And, uh, I have since managed three, three ranches and, uh, now Jamie 256 00:15:29,079 --> 00:15:32,189 and I, my wife, are, uh, on our own. 257 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,930 And, uh, have acquired our own property and doing our own ranch. 258 00:15:35,980 --> 00:15:39,120 Jared Beaver: The Mill and Sand area is often called the Lesser Prairie 259 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,000 Chicken Capital of New Mexico. 260 00:15:41,149 --> 00:15:45,130 The center of Lesser Prairie Chicken habitat in the Southern Plains. 261 00:15:45,550 --> 00:15:49,119 Though Bryce and his family ranch south of Mill and Sand, they 262 00:15:49,119 --> 00:15:51,329 are well within chicken habitat. 263 00:15:51,449 --> 00:15:55,729 And the bird remains a key player in his family's ranching story today. 264 00:15:55,819 --> 00:15:59,739 Bryce Peterson: The Lesser Prairie Chicken and the listings and things have, uh, 265 00:15:59,959 --> 00:16:03,630 It has brought a lot of attention to our area and to the ranching community. 266 00:16:03,829 --> 00:16:07,699 Hallie Mahowald: And with that attention, some much needed funding, including 267 00:16:07,699 --> 00:16:11,059 funding for this project we're learning about today, which includes three 268 00:16:11,060 --> 00:16:14,680 ranches, Working Lands Conservation, Western Landowners Alliance, as 269 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:16,839 well as state and federal agencies. 270 00:16:17,809 --> 00:16:21,160 Jesse Juen is a Western Landowners Alliance advisor. 271 00:16:21,265 --> 00:16:22,935 and natural resource consultant. 272 00:16:23,455 --> 00:16:28,045 Before retirement, he was the director of the New Mexico Bureau of Land Management. 273 00:16:28,285 --> 00:16:34,245 Jesse Juen: So we have worked on a grant that took a large landscape to 274 00:16:34,245 --> 00:16:41,324 look primarily at carbon in the soil and whether that carbon is affected 275 00:16:41,604 --> 00:16:47,425 through different management strategies and could that be applied Looked at on 276 00:16:47,435 --> 00:16:51,635 local ranches, but then also applied out to a much broader landscape. 277 00:16:52,215 --> 00:16:54,135 And Megan Nastow explains 278 00:16:54,145 --> 00:16:54,575 Jared Beaver: further. 279 00:16:54,704 --> 00:16:57,855 Megan Nasto: The idea of the project is to build a capacity. 280 00:16:58,319 --> 00:17:02,300 Um, for all of these groups to come together to develop better land 281 00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:06,379 management practices that can solve some of the critical issues of this 282 00:17:06,379 --> 00:17:08,069 region, of the Southern Great Plains. 283 00:17:08,470 --> 00:17:13,139 And one of the main issues, um, I think that this region is facing is how to 284 00:17:13,159 --> 00:17:18,900 conserve habitat for the endangered lesser prairie chicken while still maintaining 285 00:17:19,050 --> 00:17:25,589 the economic livelihoods of ranchers and ranching communities in the neighbourhood. 286 00:17:25,639 --> 00:17:26,579 And we kind of came at it. 287 00:17:27,275 --> 00:17:32,075 Somewhat surprisingly, not from a prairie chicken habitat perspective, but from 288 00:17:32,825 --> 00:17:39,624 the perspective of first understanding soil health and how grazing, or the lack 289 00:17:39,625 --> 00:17:44,534 of grazing, or the removal of invasive plants, how any of these land management 290 00:17:44,535 --> 00:17:50,625 strategies can be used to improve the health of the soils in these regions. 291 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,550 Hallie Mahowald: One indicator of healthy soils is carbon. 292 00:17:56,010 --> 00:17:59,380 Jared Beaver: There are a number of reasons why soil carbon can be important. 293 00:17:59,690 --> 00:18:03,649 From a land stewardship perspective, more carbon in the soil typically means there's 294 00:18:03,650 --> 00:18:08,239 more water holding capacity, allowing for more resilience during dry times. 295 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,169 So, more water equals more grass. 296 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,270 Hallie Mahowald: And from a global perspective, studies indicate that 297 00:18:14,270 --> 00:18:19,520 while forests sequester more carbon than grasslands, in an age of increased fire 298 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:24,649 and drought, Grasslands and rangelands could be a more resilient carbon sink 299 00:18:25,050 --> 00:18:27,010 because they store carbon underground. 300 00:18:27,330 --> 00:18:29,749 Jared Beaver: And that brings a third angle to this equation. 301 00:18:30,159 --> 00:18:31,909 Ecosystem service markets. 302 00:18:32,429 --> 00:18:36,199 Paying someone, like a rancher, for ensuring that their land produces 303 00:18:36,199 --> 00:18:40,330 something we all need, like clean water or clean air, or as in 304 00:18:40,330 --> 00:18:42,159 this case, sequestered carbon. 305 00:18:43,030 --> 00:18:46,210 Basically, you find a way to measure these ecosystem services 306 00:18:46,450 --> 00:18:50,160 and generate credits that can be bought and sold in a marketplace. 307 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:52,910 Hallie Mahowald: Now we're still in the early days of developing 308 00:18:52,910 --> 00:18:56,829 these markets, and it really feels like the Wild West out there. 309 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,030 There are a lot of sales pitches, big promises being thrown around. 310 00:19:01,620 --> 00:19:05,679 Western Landowners Alliance is committed to ensuring ecosystem service markets are 311 00:19:05,739 --> 00:19:10,320 equitable for land stewards and actually reflect good stewardship on the ground. 312 00:19:10,930 --> 00:19:14,770 Jared Beaver: If we get this right, ecosystem service markets have massive 313 00:19:14,820 --> 00:19:19,319 potential to incentivize and fund conservation and compensate land 314 00:19:19,319 --> 00:19:20,689 managers for benefits and costs. 315 00:19:20,980 --> 00:19:22,950 they already provide to society. 316 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,830 Hallie Mahowald: Take this project, which is looking specifically into carbon. 317 00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:30,980 It's funded by the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation, which includes 318 00:19:30,980 --> 00:19:34,790 funding from food giants Burger King and Cargill as part of their 319 00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:38,939 goal to reduce CO2 emissions and support stewardship on the plains. 320 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,070 Jared Beaver: All of these factors made this project interesting to ranchers 321 00:19:43,070 --> 00:19:47,050 like Bryce and Jamie Peterson when they chose to participate, looking 322 00:19:47,050 --> 00:19:50,550 at how their management practices influence carbon in the soil. 323 00:19:51,230 --> 00:19:53,830 Bryce Peterson: What piqued my interest to start, uh, this 324 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,150 was, was the other markets. 325 00:19:56,270 --> 00:20:02,010 Uh, ranching as a whole is, is, is a good business, um, but it takes other 326 00:20:02,290 --> 00:20:08,460 avenues, um, and, and different sources, uh, to be viable in this business. 327 00:20:08,489 --> 00:20:12,710 But data collection is important, and without data, we don't 328 00:20:12,710 --> 00:20:13,720 really know what we have. 329 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:19,010 I, I feel like those that ranch with just cows, Only. 330 00:20:19,250 --> 00:20:24,100 Cows in mind, they're either very far ahead in the financial curve 331 00:20:24,170 --> 00:20:28,580 and they can focus purely on that, or they're probably falling behind. 332 00:20:29,060 --> 00:20:34,369 And those of us in the middle are probably, uh, looking at every avenue 333 00:20:34,369 --> 00:20:39,319 we possibly can to be viable and stay doing what we do for a living. 334 00:20:39,929 --> 00:20:43,910 I think I'm constantly looking outside of the cow to figure out 335 00:20:44,130 --> 00:20:45,639 what that viability would be. 336 00:20:47,830 --> 00:20:51,160 Hallie Mahowald: So with this project, we're looking at how land management 337 00:20:51,170 --> 00:20:53,740 practices influence carbon in the soil. 338 00:20:54,140 --> 00:20:57,020 But how is this study actually conducted? 339 00:20:57,170 --> 00:21:00,250 Jared Beaver: According to Chris Holvey and Megan Nastow at Working 340 00:21:00,250 --> 00:21:03,799 Lands Conservation, the first steps in co producing research 341 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,700 like this is always listening. 342 00:21:09,429 --> 00:21:11,209 Kris Hulvey: One of the first things I think is always important 343 00:21:11,209 --> 00:21:13,889 to do in a project is figure out what everybody wants to learn. 344 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:17,840 Monitoring is a term that's thrown around, and you can monitor 345 00:21:17,869 --> 00:21:20,119 so many things on a landscape. 346 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:22,259 You can monitor how tall the grass is, you can monitor what 347 00:21:22,259 --> 00:21:25,879 kind of species are there, you can monitor all sorts of things. 348 00:21:25,919 --> 00:21:29,919 But if you don't really start by asking a question, you're gonna, 349 00:21:30,315 --> 00:21:31,534 Just collect a lot of data. 350 00:21:31,534 --> 00:21:33,385 It's not going to tell you an answer. 351 00:21:33,945 --> 00:21:38,205 Hallie Mahowald: So all these ranchers and partners got together to determine what 352 00:21:38,205 --> 00:21:40,335 questions they really needed answered. 353 00:21:40,845 --> 00:21:45,355 Kris Hulvey: Those included, how do grazing systems affect soil carbon? 354 00:21:45,904 --> 00:21:47,925 How does shrub removal affect soil carbon? 355 00:21:48,604 --> 00:21:53,065 So we really structured our sampling based on answering those questions. 356 00:21:53,584 --> 00:21:56,475 Jared Beaver: And in this project, The ranchers are using adaptive 357 00:21:56,475 --> 00:22:00,205 management and that includes applying intensive rotational grazing. 358 00:22:00,675 --> 00:22:04,605 But as Chris said, all of this listening is critical to designing a 359 00:22:04,605 --> 00:22:08,845 study in a way that provides practical knowledge for everyone involved. 360 00:22:12,594 --> 00:22:16,794 Hallie Mahowald: So first you listen, then design the study, and then 361 00:22:17,234 --> 00:22:19,835 Megan Nasto: It was really just a lot of digging holes and collecting 362 00:22:19,835 --> 00:22:21,574 soil and putting them in bags. 363 00:22:21,975 --> 00:22:29,054 Um, so then I could take back home to a lab to actually analyze for, for carbon. 364 00:22:30,295 --> 00:22:34,384 But the fun part of it was, is that, you know, I, I spent weeks digging holes, 365 00:22:34,395 --> 00:22:38,815 which is something I love to do, but so many other people volunteered to help me. 366 00:22:38,885 --> 00:22:43,625 I mean, we had Jesse Jewin, who's a great partner in this project, former state BLM 367 00:22:43,625 --> 00:22:49,174 director from New Mexico, spending his retirement, spending three, four weeks 368 00:22:49,204 --> 00:22:50,864 out in the field with me every single day. 369 00:22:51,905 --> 00:22:53,335 And he was just fantastic. 370 00:22:53,345 --> 00:22:57,705 You know, we had folks from the agencies come out and help, and we even recruited 371 00:22:58,254 --> 00:23:04,234 two high school students from the Tatum High School in Eastern New Mexico, spend 372 00:23:04,234 --> 00:23:09,475 their entire spring break working with us and digging holes and collecting soil 373 00:23:09,615 --> 00:23:11,705 and just having a great time with us. 374 00:23:11,765 --> 00:23:12,495 So it was. 375 00:23:12,925 --> 00:23:17,364 It was a fun time, um, but it involved really just getting to 376 00:23:17,364 --> 00:23:21,284 know that landscape and driving all over and sampling in one spot after 377 00:23:21,284 --> 00:23:22,864 another after another after another. 378 00:23:22,945 --> 00:23:27,534 It ended up being easily well over a thousand samples that I had to load 379 00:23:27,545 --> 00:23:33,364 up into my truck and drive back to Utah, um, and then process and analyze. 380 00:23:33,425 --> 00:23:36,379 It was a It was kilos of soil. 381 00:23:36,389 --> 00:23:39,250 It was a huge amount of soil, but it was a lot of work. 382 00:23:40,890 --> 00:23:43,300 Jared Beaver: So getting additional help to dig that 383 00:23:43,300 --> 00:23:45,820 many holes makes perfect sense. 384 00:23:46,100 --> 00:23:50,729 But there's another benefit when you're getting a group of people who historically 385 00:23:50,729 --> 00:23:52,459 may not always see eye to eye. 386 00:23:53,239 --> 00:23:57,699 Simply getting on the land together can help build that crucial ingredient 387 00:23:57,749 --> 00:23:59,519 to a successful collaborative. 388 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,570 And that crucial ingredient is trust. 389 00:24:02,700 --> 00:24:05,710 Kris Hulvey: I found that there's kind of this magic in doing field science 390 00:24:05,710 --> 00:24:07,370 and getting a bunch of people together. 391 00:24:07,570 --> 00:24:12,080 Everybody starts interpreting what they're seeing together, and we as scientists 392 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,290 might put one language on it, and the ranchers put another language on it, 393 00:24:15,290 --> 00:24:18,899 and the land managers put a different language on it, but that's how you start. 394 00:24:19,220 --> 00:24:20,740 You know, all speaking the same language. 395 00:24:20,860 --> 00:24:24,180 Hallie Mahowald: So Working Lands Conservation and Partners and a couple 396 00:24:24,180 --> 00:24:29,780 of local teenagers dug a ton of holes and took kilos of soil back to the lab. 397 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:30,370 What did they 398 00:24:30,370 --> 00:24:31,000 Kris Hulvey: find? 399 00:24:31,070 --> 00:24:36,790 We found that in areas where there is grazing, that there was more soil 400 00:24:36,809 --> 00:24:42,770 carbon, uh, detectably more soil carbon than in areas that weren't grazed. 401 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,610 Areas that The roots were not grazed, the root systems were not as deep, areas 402 00:24:46,610 --> 00:24:47,980 that were grazed, they were deeper. 403 00:24:48,670 --> 00:24:51,760 And the thing about plants is, they act as little carbon pumps. 404 00:24:51,780 --> 00:24:54,770 They take carbon out of the atmosphere, they, they Put it into 405 00:24:54,770 --> 00:24:57,830 their roots and their plant biomass. 406 00:24:57,850 --> 00:25:01,159 And then that carbon kind of leaks from the roots into the soil. 407 00:25:01,930 --> 00:25:05,440 And so there are these little pumps that bring carbon into the soil. 408 00:25:05,450 --> 00:25:09,230 So when you have those deeper roots, it's, there's the potential of getting 409 00:25:09,230 --> 00:25:11,690 more carbon in deeper layers of the soil. 410 00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:13,240 And that's exactly what we found. 411 00:25:13,379 --> 00:25:14,239 Jared Beaver: This finding. 412 00:25:14,524 --> 00:25:17,664 That well managed grazing could increase soil carbon? 413 00:25:17,945 --> 00:25:20,135 That was no surprise to the ranchers. 414 00:25:20,305 --> 00:25:23,294 Hallie Mahowald: We're dropping a lot of terms here today, including adaptive 415 00:25:23,295 --> 00:25:29,804 management and rotational grazing. 416 00:25:30,385 --> 00:25:33,624 Jared Beaver: There are a lot of working definitions for adaptive management. 417 00:25:33,844 --> 00:25:38,455 It's basically the willingness to change management, to meet changes in weather, 418 00:25:38,495 --> 00:25:44,245 climate, feed water availability, markets, predator challenges, really anything. 419 00:25:44,980 --> 00:25:48,800 It's about staying flexible in your management in response to new 420 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,380 information or changing conditions. 421 00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:55,190 Hallie Mahowald: And in addition to strategies like woody brush removal 422 00:25:55,220 --> 00:26:00,009 and prescribed fire, ranchers in this project are grazing cattle as 423 00:26:00,009 --> 00:26:01,509 part of their adoptive management. 424 00:26:01,619 --> 00:26:03,530 Jared Beaver: But not all grazing is created equal. 425 00:26:03,910 --> 00:26:07,130 Grazing is a tool, and if thoughtfully applied, can 426 00:26:07,130 --> 00:26:09,110 improve overall rangeland health. 427 00:26:09,610 --> 00:26:13,560 The ranchers involved in this study practice a form of rotational grazing. 428 00:26:13,899 --> 00:26:17,429 Meaning that instead of letting cattle out across the entire range in the 429 00:26:17,429 --> 00:26:22,010 spring and rounding them up again in the fall, they intensively graze smaller 430 00:26:22,020 --> 00:26:26,789 pastures for a short period of time, followed by an extended period of rest. 431 00:26:27,020 --> 00:26:30,209 Hallie Mahowald: Grazing in the appropriate intensity and duration for 432 00:26:30,209 --> 00:26:34,990 the landscape can lead to more forage availability above ground and deeper roots 433 00:26:35,090 --> 00:26:37,500 underground, meaning more carbon storage. 434 00:26:37,555 --> 00:26:39,594 But 435 00:26:39,595 --> 00:26:42,415 Jared Beaver: remember, this project is trying to determine if this 436 00:26:42,425 --> 00:26:46,545 landscape can sequester enough carbon that it's worthwhile to 437 00:26:46,545 --> 00:26:50,625 participate in carbon markets, a potential tool that could support 438 00:26:50,625 --> 00:26:53,055 communities and their land stewardship. 439 00:26:53,905 --> 00:26:55,054 So what's the outcome there? 440 00:26:55,449 --> 00:26:57,350 Kris Hulvey: One thing that people are really excited right 441 00:26:57,350 --> 00:26:58,889 now about are carbon markets. 442 00:26:58,909 --> 00:27:04,119 So, you know, are, is there enough carbon in those grazed areas that now we can get 443 00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:06,149 a profit off of that additional carbon? 444 00:27:06,709 --> 00:27:08,389 And in these landscapes, maybe not. 445 00:27:08,419 --> 00:27:10,839 It's a very small amount of carbon. 446 00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:18,690 Hallie Mahowald: It's worth noting that this study found that rangelands that were 447 00:27:18,729 --> 00:27:23,100 adaptively managed by the ranchers had about double the amount of carbon in the 448 00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:28,020 soil compared to a nearby area of public land that had not been grazed in 15 years. 449 00:27:28,430 --> 00:27:31,420 Kris Hulvey: Ecologically, that's really important in our landscape, even 450 00:27:31,420 --> 00:27:35,330 that small amount of carbon, because these are really dry landscapes. 451 00:27:36,050 --> 00:27:39,629 And when carbon is in the soil, it actually binds water a little bit. 452 00:27:39,659 --> 00:27:45,199 So when the rains come in these areas, that carbon prevents that 453 00:27:45,199 --> 00:27:48,759 water from just seeping right through the soils, which are really sandy. 454 00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:54,350 And so there's more water for the growth of plants in those areas that are grazed. 455 00:27:54,690 --> 00:27:56,850 And so ecologically, those soils are healthier. 456 00:28:03,344 --> 00:28:06,855 Jared Beaver: Okay, so this emerging collaborative group is studying 457 00:28:06,855 --> 00:28:10,784 how adaptive management practices can impact levels of soil carbon. 458 00:28:11,225 --> 00:28:14,204 But what does this have to do with the lesser prey chicken? 459 00:28:14,324 --> 00:28:16,565 Hallie Mahowald: Well, it really comes down to this. 460 00:28:16,824 --> 00:28:20,485 Grant Beauprez: Probably more than 60 percent or 70 percent 461 00:28:20,525 --> 00:28:24,525 of the chickens are on private land in the state of New Mexico. 462 00:28:24,950 --> 00:28:27,390 Jared Beaver: Why are the birds on mostly private lands? 463 00:28:27,620 --> 00:28:30,860 Well, for one, the plains are largely privately owned, right? 464 00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:36,579 But also, how those lands are managed is providing habitat for the birds. 465 00:28:36,579 --> 00:28:42,200 And simply put, ranching and chickens rely on similar habitats, healthy grasslands. 466 00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:46,740 Hallie Mahowald: If ranch operations and the people and communities they support 467 00:28:47,010 --> 00:28:51,815 can remain economically viable, They're less likely to be sold and developed. 468 00:28:52,395 --> 00:28:56,095 Jared Beaver: So if we as a society can compensate land managers for 469 00:28:56,095 --> 00:29:01,725 providing essential ecosystem services like wildlife habitat or carbon, that 470 00:29:01,734 --> 00:29:06,294 stacking of enterprises can keep these ranches and their communities afloat. 471 00:29:06,465 --> 00:29:09,924 Hallie Mahowald: After all, it's the people on the ground that are maintaining 472 00:29:09,965 --> 00:29:11,745 and improving habitat conditions. 473 00:29:14,145 --> 00:29:17,275 Jared Beaver: Now let's hear from Brett, another rancher involved in the project. 474 00:29:17,385 --> 00:29:19,895 Bret Riley: Brett Riley, um, we ranch here in Southeastern 475 00:29:19,895 --> 00:29:21,165 Mexico and in Western Oklahoma. 476 00:29:21,335 --> 00:29:24,224 Hallie Mahowald: Brett is also now the Eastern New Mexico Resource Coordinator 477 00:29:24,235 --> 00:29:25,685 for the Western Landowners Alliance. 478 00:29:25,744 --> 00:29:30,175 Bret Riley: This ranch, you know, primarily is cow calf operation, um, you 479 00:29:30,175 --> 00:29:34,534 know, nestled here, you know, we're in a checkerboard ranching area, private, 480 00:29:34,634 --> 00:29:40,605 state, and BLM lands, um, and then, you know, we're also, um, Right in 481 00:29:40,605 --> 00:29:41,825 the middle of prairie chicken habitat. 482 00:29:42,175 --> 00:29:46,775 So, you know, that's kind of a driver always has been on this ranch and 483 00:29:46,795 --> 00:29:50,575 probably, you know, probably what got us into the conservation field to begin with. 484 00:29:50,845 --> 00:29:53,664 Jared Beaver: We talked earlier about how the ranchers involved in 485 00:29:53,664 --> 00:29:58,305 this study are using an adaptive management approach to their operations. 486 00:29:59,055 --> 00:30:02,445 Brett helped us connect the dots between his management actions 487 00:30:02,555 --> 00:30:03,765 and the Lesser Prairie Chicken. 488 00:30:03,965 --> 00:30:06,725 Bret Riley: And if we, you know, we take care of the soils, they take care of 489 00:30:06,735 --> 00:30:10,584 the, you know, the biomass and, you know, if we can build healthy ecosystems and 490 00:30:10,584 --> 00:30:14,324 then we, you know, we're sequestering a little carbon along the way, you know, 491 00:30:14,324 --> 00:30:17,504 we're helping our water infiltration by building up the organic matter in 492 00:30:17,535 --> 00:30:19,145 the soils with our grazing patterns. 493 00:30:19,675 --> 00:30:22,825 And then at the end of the day, you know, we're building, you know, healthy 494 00:30:22,825 --> 00:30:26,514 habitats for, you know, in our instance, primarily the Lesser Prairie Chicken, 495 00:30:26,514 --> 00:30:29,045 but in other areas, there's lots of other different kinds of wildlife. 496 00:30:29,650 --> 00:30:32,420 Hallie Mahowald: Brett also tells us that he's involved with the Lesser 497 00:30:32,420 --> 00:30:34,340 Prairie Chicken Landowners Alliance. 498 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:40,700 A group of about 25 landowners across New Mexico, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, and 499 00:30:40,700 --> 00:30:45,629 Colorado working with federal agencies to forge a path to chicken recovery. 500 00:30:45,820 --> 00:30:48,220 Jared Beaver: Ted Cook and the Grouse Partnership helped 501 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:49,520 get the alliance started. 502 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,209 Ted Koch: I like to joke that I called up these landowner leaders in the 503 00:30:52,209 --> 00:30:54,900 different states in the southwestern Great Plains and I said, hey. 504 00:30:55,505 --> 00:30:58,275 Ted Cook with the Grouse Partnership, and we want to save, uh, lesser 505 00:30:58,275 --> 00:30:59,515 prairie chickens and ranching. 506 00:30:59,955 --> 00:31:02,415 And they said, well we disagree with you, we want to save ranchers, 507 00:31:02,445 --> 00:31:04,035 ranching and lesser prairie chickens. 508 00:31:04,954 --> 00:31:08,255 And so, uh, obviously our interests were highly congruent. 509 00:31:09,045 --> 00:31:10,524 Hallie Mahowald: And the vision for the Lesser Prairie 510 00:31:10,524 --> 00:31:11,825 Chicken Landowners Alliance? 511 00:31:12,295 --> 00:31:16,144 Defend the core of remaining chicken habitat across their range? 512 00:31:17,615 --> 00:31:18,085 What 513 00:31:19,765 --> 00:31:23,305 Bret Riley: we are trying to envision is, you know, connecting these habitats 514 00:31:23,745 --> 00:31:26,365 and, and building, you know, a pathway. 515 00:31:26,365 --> 00:31:28,095 And, you know, we talk about strongholds, right? 516 00:31:28,375 --> 00:31:32,074 What we're looking at doing here is building a over 110, 000 acre stronghold 517 00:31:32,075 --> 00:31:35,294 right here in this part of the world, you know, and trying to put some things in 518 00:31:35,294 --> 00:31:38,625 place and, you know, kind of use it as a model as, you know, how do we do this? 519 00:31:38,625 --> 00:31:40,585 How, you know, what percentage shenry do we need? 520 00:31:40,585 --> 00:31:41,185 What percentage? 521 00:31:41,505 --> 00:31:42,395 Tall grass do we need? 522 00:31:42,395 --> 00:31:43,585 Well, how much open ground do we need? 523 00:31:43,585 --> 00:31:46,055 I mean, these are all questions that we need to ask that probably 524 00:31:46,065 --> 00:31:48,055 haven't been looked at close enough. 525 00:31:48,055 --> 00:31:51,565 And I don't really think we've studied the ecology of the soils and the 526 00:31:51,565 --> 00:31:54,145 ecology of the, of the ecosystem enough. 527 00:31:54,534 --> 00:31:58,114 We studied the bird, but I'm not sure we've studied their home enough. 528 00:31:58,735 --> 00:32:01,715 And so what we're trying to do is put it together so we've got, so we 529 00:32:01,715 --> 00:32:04,215 can connect all these pathways to go all the way from here up into, 530 00:32:04,485 --> 00:32:05,835 you know, west central Kansas. 531 00:32:06,435 --> 00:32:10,435 Which is a northern range of the lessors and, and try and, you know, build it 532 00:32:10,445 --> 00:32:14,355 so that, so that we can put that back together as it was years ago, you know, 533 00:32:14,475 --> 00:32:18,645 and I mean, you know, reality is such that we know we'll never be able to make 534 00:32:18,645 --> 00:32:22,454 it like it used to be, but I think with a little help and a little bit of, of 535 00:32:22,454 --> 00:32:26,105 collaboration, we can put it, get it to the point to where we can, you know, have 536 00:32:26,105 --> 00:32:29,355 enough birds that they can have a thriving population and be successful again. 537 00:32:29,725 --> 00:32:32,664 Jared Beaver: And according to Brett's philosophy, what's good for the 538 00:32:32,664 --> 00:32:34,245 ranchers comes from Good for the bird. 539 00:32:34,585 --> 00:32:38,005 And participating in studies such as this one helps him understand 540 00:32:38,005 --> 00:32:41,495 how his management actions are impacting the landscape. 541 00:32:41,714 --> 00:32:43,835 Bret Riley: We kind of look at it as a holistic approach. 542 00:32:43,955 --> 00:32:47,985 If, you know, what, what works for our chicken and, and not just the chicken, but 543 00:32:47,995 --> 00:32:52,355 the other wildlife species that are on the ranch, um, also work for our cow habitat. 544 00:32:52,405 --> 00:32:56,325 I mean, we've, we've just got some research data in that showed 545 00:32:56,325 --> 00:32:59,475 that, you know, parts of the ranch were like 35 percent less bare 546 00:32:59,475 --> 00:33:00,814 ground than we were 10 years ago. 547 00:33:01,775 --> 00:33:03,865 Hallie Mahowald: But what about this project in particular? 548 00:33:04,285 --> 00:33:07,025 We asked Brett his thoughts about the results of this 549 00:33:07,025 --> 00:33:08,995 landscape level carbon study. 550 00:33:09,385 --> 00:33:12,975 Bret Riley: Certainly, this project's been very useful and been very informative. 551 00:33:13,335 --> 00:33:16,334 Um, do I feel like carbon's ever going to be a leader for us? 552 00:33:16,335 --> 00:33:17,035 I don't. 553 00:33:17,284 --> 00:33:19,944 I don't feel like out here in these arid environments that we're ever 554 00:33:19,945 --> 00:33:21,335 going to sequester enough carbon. 555 00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:24,950 to actually make the carbon sequestration portion of it pay. 556 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,800 But what I do think is more important than that is the fact that the adaptive 557 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,930 grazing and management systems that you can utilize that will sequester the carbon 558 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,590 are far more valuable than the carbon itself that you're putting in the ground. 559 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,850 The practice maybe is more important than the end result. 560 00:33:41,140 --> 00:33:44,560 Jared Beaver: As we mentioned earlier, improving soil health through adaptive 561 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,420 management can lead to outcomes like more water in the soil and an 562 00:33:48,430 --> 00:33:52,800 increase in forage availability, which can help ranching operations be 563 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,320 resilient to challenges like drought. 564 00:33:55,479 --> 00:33:57,759 Hallie Mahowald: And while Brett doesn't think carbon credits could be 565 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:02,555 worthwhile in eastern New Mexico, Some sort of habitat lease or biodiversity 566 00:34:02,555 --> 00:34:07,175 credit could go a long way to support ranching communities who are actively 567 00:34:07,175 --> 00:34:09,064 stewarding our remaining grasslands. 568 00:34:10,355 --> 00:34:12,795 Bret Riley: When we start talking about biodiversity and wildlife 569 00:34:12,795 --> 00:34:16,415 and I think maybe that's a new frontier that we're We're just 570 00:34:16,495 --> 00:34:18,345 kind of getting in on right now. 571 00:34:18,685 --> 00:34:21,615 And I think it's one that probably, especially in our part of the world, is 572 00:34:21,615 --> 00:34:23,005 going to be probably more significant. 573 00:34:23,594 --> 00:34:27,275 Hallie Mahowald: In addition to ecosystem service markets, Brett thinks modifying 574 00:34:27,275 --> 00:34:31,094 existing federal farm bill programs could also support lesser prairie 575 00:34:31,094 --> 00:34:33,034 chicken conservation on working lands. 576 00:34:33,514 --> 00:34:35,915 That's one avenue the Lesser Prairie Chicken Landowner 577 00:34:36,035 --> 00:34:37,705 Alliance is working on right now. 578 00:34:38,305 --> 00:34:41,520 Jared Beaver: But in any case There needs to be a toolbox of financial 579 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,410 support for ranchers and communities who are proactively building and 580 00:34:45,420 --> 00:34:49,920 maintaining critical wildlife habitat, especially when we consider how 581 00:34:49,929 --> 00:34:51,930 little intact grasslands are left. 582 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,080 Bret Riley: We've squeezed the margins on all these producers to the point to 583 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,840 where, you know, you have to be bigger and bigger and bigger, and then we've 584 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,370 gotten to the point to where there's just not many cents left over when 585 00:35:02,370 --> 00:35:03,700 you get done at the end of the day. 586 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:08,260 And so, I think if we're gonna ask these folks to go in there and maybe improve 587 00:35:08,260 --> 00:35:12,910 the ecology on certain portions of this landscape, And build these habitats. 588 00:35:13,090 --> 00:35:16,120 There has to be an offset somewhere there to provide them 589 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:17,590 with the monetary stability. 590 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,510 We would welcome any kind of collaboration. 591 00:35:19,510 --> 00:35:22,030 You know, we just want what's best for the, for the ecosystem. 592 00:35:22,060 --> 00:35:22,570 We're here. 593 00:35:22,570 --> 00:35:23,590 This is where we live. 594 00:35:23,590 --> 00:35:24,730 This is how we make a living. 595 00:35:26,750 --> 00:35:29,810 Hallie Mahowald: It's clear from visiting with the ranchers involved in this 596 00:35:29,810 --> 00:35:34,100 project that when it comes to staying in business and supporting wildlife. 597 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,050 They're committed for the long haul. 598 00:35:36,700 --> 00:35:38,230 Jared Beaver: And that's a good thing. 599 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,470 After all, it's thoughtful ranchers like Brett and Bryce and their families 600 00:35:42,470 --> 00:35:47,060 and a collaboration of partners who are pushing against the decline of habitat 601 00:35:47,130 --> 00:35:49,070 that's slowly eating away at the plains. 602 00:35:49,929 --> 00:35:53,455 Bret Riley: I think if we would, you know, You know, open our eyes as a society 603 00:35:53,455 --> 00:35:56,745 and look at, you know, who's going to be the one that's going to lead this, you 604 00:35:56,745 --> 00:36:00,515 know, ecological revolution, you might say, it's going to be the producer. 605 00:36:00,745 --> 00:36:04,455 Hallie Mahowald: So if we want resilient ecosystems, we need to support the 606 00:36:04,455 --> 00:36:06,124 people on the ground, stewarding them. 607 00:36:06,365 --> 00:36:08,455 Bret Riley: I was on a zoom call while back with some folks in the 608 00:36:08,455 --> 00:36:11,810 Fish and Wildlife Service, and they said, We cannot mandate or dictate 609 00:36:11,810 --> 00:36:13,090 our way into saving the chicken. 610 00:36:13,090 --> 00:36:16,640 If we don't have the, the producers on our side working with us, you know, 611 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,640 the species is going to go into extinct and, and they're probably right. 612 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:20,459 I mean, not probably right. 613 00:36:20,459 --> 00:36:23,479 I know they're right because, you know, producers are the ones with 614 00:36:23,490 --> 00:36:24,620 the boots on the ground out here. 615 00:36:24,650 --> 00:36:25,799 We're the ones that see it every day. 616 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:26,649 We know what's going on. 617 00:36:27,010 --> 00:36:29,440 I feel confident we can build a habitat out here. 618 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:30,010 We've done it. 619 00:36:30,050 --> 00:36:31,000 We know how to do it. 620 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,290 I mean, we've done it enough now and know the grazing. 621 00:36:34,105 --> 00:36:37,325 Utilizing cattle is another tool, right, in that toolbox to build that habitat. 622 00:36:37,895 --> 00:36:40,895 But what I don't know, I don't know when the chickens are going to come back, 623 00:36:40,895 --> 00:36:42,995 or where they're going to come back, or what they're going to do, because I can't 624 00:36:42,995 --> 00:36:44,245 dictate what a chicken's going to do. 625 00:36:44,655 --> 00:36:49,454 But I can build them a home, and I can build a habitat, and I can make it, you 626 00:36:49,455 --> 00:36:51,345 know, desirable for them to be there. 627 00:36:52,295 --> 00:36:55,495 And I have a pretty good feeling if we do that, they'll, they'll 628 00:36:55,495 --> 00:36:56,645 expand again and come out. 629 00:36:57,655 --> 00:37:01,235 Jared Beaver: At the end of the day, the collective vision emerging from the plains 630 00:37:01,235 --> 00:37:03,845 is a biome level model for conservation. 631 00:37:04,304 --> 00:37:06,595 And while the lesser prairie chicken may have been the trigger, 632 00:37:06,930 --> 00:37:08,360 It's not just about the bird. 633 00:37:08,570 --> 00:37:11,220 Hallie Mahowald: Where do we have these remaining intact systems? 634 00:37:11,230 --> 00:37:12,440 How do we protect them? 635 00:37:12,620 --> 00:37:16,380 And how do we expand the central core and support what is working? 636 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,270 This is a model of thinking that can be applied to conservation challenges 637 00:37:20,270 --> 00:37:24,589 anywhere, and it requires leadership from the land and people working 638 00:37:24,589 --> 00:37:26,270 across boundaries to make it happen. 639 00:37:26,815 --> 00:37:30,565 Jared Beaver: And it's the continuous, thoughtful stewardship by communities 640 00:37:30,575 --> 00:37:33,385 on the ground that is supporting the Lesser Prairie Chicken. 641 00:37:33,905 --> 00:37:36,714 It's not setting aside land and simply letting it be. 642 00:37:37,195 --> 00:37:40,474 So how can we do a better job supporting those people and their 643 00:37:40,474 --> 00:37:44,855 contributions, whether it's a private market solution, a public funding 644 00:37:44,855 --> 00:37:47,014 solution, or a toolbox of both? 645 00:37:47,015 --> 00:37:51,015 As a society, we need to better support what we truly value. 646 00:37:51,215 --> 00:37:54,300 Hallie Mahowald: And so while the future of Lesser Prairie Chickens remain 647 00:37:54,300 --> 00:37:59,780 uncertain, and the challenges we face are complex, if we work together, we 648 00:37:59,780 --> 00:38:04,490 can chart a path forward that supports people, wildlife, and the spaces we share. 649 00:38:04,970 --> 00:38:07,410 The critical piece we call the working wild. 650 00:38:08,420 --> 00:38:11,219 Bret Riley: Let's sit down at the table, everybody, you know, I'd even 651 00:38:11,220 --> 00:38:14,010 invite the environmental groups that don't like cows, come, come talk to us. 652 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,700 Let's sit down at the table and visit about it and let's go out 653 00:38:16,700 --> 00:38:19,010 in the country and look at it and let's, let's fix this problem. 654 00:38:19,010 --> 00:38:20,870 I mean, it's not anything that's insurmountable. 655 00:38:21,500 --> 00:38:22,130 We can do it. 656 00:38:22,130 --> 00:38:24,500 It's just a matter of rolling your sleeves up and getting it done. 657 00:38:26,890 --> 00:38:30,120 Working Wild U Producer Zach Altman: Working Wild You is a production of 658 00:38:30,130 --> 00:38:34,230 Montana State University Extension and Western Landowners Alliance 659 00:38:34,430 --> 00:38:36,190 with support from the Arthur M. 660 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,440 Blank Family Foundation and you, our listeners. 661 00:38:39,790 --> 00:38:43,930 This episode was written and produced by me, Zach Altman, with support from 662 00:38:43,930 --> 00:38:46,270 our hosts Jared Beaver and Hallie Mahal. 663 00:38:46,650 --> 00:38:50,230 Lewis Wirtz and Jared Beaver are our executive producers. 664 00:38:50,670 --> 00:38:53,360 Music is from Artlist and Blue Dot Sessions. 665 00:38:54,210 --> 00:38:58,720 Special thanks to Bryce and Jamie Peterson, Brett Riley, Jesse Juen, 666 00:38:59,020 --> 00:39:05,850 Chris Halvey, Megan Nasto, Grant Bupre, Ted Cook, Hannah Weaver, the 667 00:39:05,850 --> 00:39:10,589 Bureau of Land Management, New Mexico Department of Game and Fish, New 668 00:39:10,589 --> 00:39:15,410 Mexico State Lands Office, and the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation. 669 00:39:15,850 --> 00:39:19,850 And as always, please be sure to follow us on social media, www. 670 00:39:20,100 --> 00:39:23,760 And head to our website to check out show notes and bonus content. 671 00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:25,450 That's at workingwild. 672 00:39:25,460 --> 00:39:26,030 us. 673 00:39:26,970 --> 00:39:30,769 Please help more people discover the show by rating and reviewing 674 00:39:30,769 --> 00:39:35,420 us on Apple podcasts and share this episode with a friend or neighbor. 675 00:39:36,279 --> 00:39:36,999 That's all for now. 676 00:39:37,250 --> 00:39:39,250 We'll see you next time on Working Wild U.