1
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and welcome to the show.

2
00:00:02,357 --> 00:00:03,901
Good to have you guys.

3
00:00:04,376 --> 00:00:05,151
Thank you.

4
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Yeah, cool to be back.

5
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Yeah, it's really cool.

6
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guess that means you're enjoying coming on the show.

7
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This is your third time here.

8
00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:16,542
And you don't come alone, though.

9
00:00:17,004 --> 00:00:23,652
No, I brought someone today that I talked briefly about last time because we had just
started working together.

10
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Yeah, was, so that was about five years ago.

11
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And yeah, it was just beginning to be discussed working with a tap dancer.

12
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And I really had no idea how that was going to work.

13
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And now I've gotten to hear some of the music and it's really cool.

14
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It's very percussive and textural and a lot of fun stuff.

15
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I'm really interested to hear how you guys work that in.

16
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So it's nice to have you both here.

17
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Yeah, awesome.

18
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Nice to be here, yeah.

19
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So the album is out or would it be an EP technically or the yeah.

20
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Okay.

21
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Yeah.

22
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Cause it's, see five tracks, but they're long tracks, you know, and I have some listens to
it and really enjoyed it.

23
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It's, it's, it's kind of transportive, you know, kind of like an ambient type of thing,
but

24
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A little more action-packed than a lot of the ambient music that I've listened to in the
past.

25
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Kinda just skirting on that line.

26
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So congratulations to you both on it.

27
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Nice, thank you, thank you.

28
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I'd love to hear about how this came together and how you guys create these sounds we're
hearing.

29
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Where should we start?

30
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Yeah, where should we start?

31
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Well, first of all, we improvise.

32
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So everything we do is made up on the spot.

33
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I choose what kind of steps I want to make and what kind of rhythms and sort of textures
that I want to contribute with.

34
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And then Kristoffer...

35
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does live programming, which I don't understand so much about.

36
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But what I hear is that my sound changes and his sound changes.

37
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then sometimes I can't even tell what's what anymore.

38
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But we keep on improvising with the total of what's happening.

39
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There's a lot of

40
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talk about the approach to the music, but maybe we should explain the technical stuff
right away.

41
00:02:56,354 --> 00:03:01,774
I brought my little mics.

42
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I don't know if you can see.

43
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I have no, these are just very small mics, a little bit like those you would have in a
musical.

44
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a headset type of thing.

45
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face.

46
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But they're a bit more sturdy, wrapped in some kind of rubber.

47
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And I put them...

48
00:03:28,334 --> 00:03:33,014
Sorry, under my shoe right here.

49
00:03:33,464 --> 00:03:37,354
Okay, so you're pointing at the spot between the heel and the toe.

50
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So I guess you're not stomping on the microphone when you're tapping.

51
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want to crush the mic, but this is a good spot for the sound to catch the sound of the toe
tap and the heel tap and the flat foot and whatever sound I'm making with the shoe.

52
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And I have a transmitter that sends my sound out so you can hear what I'm actually doing.

53
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Yeah, the acoustic sound.

54
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The acoustic

55
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Even though the real acoustic sound is much better than the sound that comes from my
transmitter mics, but it's better than nothing because it helps me.

56
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We can make sure that the tap still comes out, doesn't drown in the music that Christopher
is making that's coming out of his system.

57
00:04:32,918 --> 00:04:36,536
If we want that, sometimes it's supposed to drown.

58
00:04:36,536 --> 00:04:39,748
but it makes it possible to hear the actual taps.

59
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And then I have a contact mic on my...

60
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I usually have a little piece of floor with me, but it can also be put straight on the
floor if it's a wooden stage, for example.

61
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And this contact mic takes my sound and brings it into Kristoffer's setup.

62
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And then he can use it.

63
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and you can tell the rest.

64
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Yeah, I think it's very one thing that's very interesting with this project is this like
two angles to the same thing, kind of.

65
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That's also why I wanted to bring on and do it together because it's like it's very
interesting to look at the situation from two sides.

66
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But like on a technical level, the signal is coming in.

67
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And then it's a big Max patch that I made and also some loose Max for Live stuff that kind
of routes this signal to all kinds of different places.

68
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I have on my controller, I have many banks of parameters I can control and all of these
parameters I can tell an envelope follower to also control.

69
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So I can just grab any parameter that I'm controlling and then say, let's put Janne to
control this now.

70
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And then it jumps up the amount that I select.

71
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So that's like one technique.

72
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And then there are many more as well.

73
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It's like processing just the raw sound from the contact mic.

74
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And it's like sampling that and then using...

75
00:06:26,028 --> 00:06:38,566
like a step sequencer, but instead of the step sequencer just clocking along, it's almost
like, you know, on modular and so on, you plug in a clock to the sequencer.

76
00:06:38,807 --> 00:06:43,290
And instead of having a clock, it's a tap dancer plugged into the sequencer.

77
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So whenever she taps, yeah, exactly.

78
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That's the real step sequencer.

79
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With the tap tempo now.

80
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And too many puns.

81
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in here.

82
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We got to get them out.

83
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That's cool though.

84
00:06:57,348 --> 00:07:02,393
But then everything kind of follows Janne's dynamic and timing.

85
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And then as she said a little bit, like what she's controlling and how it's affecting my
system, that's being changed on the spot as I'm playing.

86
00:07:14,316 --> 00:07:15,346
Okay, so that's really cool.

87
00:07:15,346 --> 00:07:22,429
So you've got the sound from the taps on its own that can be used for percussion and
rhythms.

88
00:07:22,530 --> 00:07:34,515
But then you've also got the actual audio it's creating and those waveforms can be used to
change other parameters and effects and I guess really anything you want within the music.

89
00:07:34,856 --> 00:07:40,078
So there's a lot of dimensions to what you're actually doing when you're tapping.

90
00:07:41,179 --> 00:07:48,985
Yeah, it's like again a good parallel like Eurorec has been on a boom for a few years now.

91
00:07:48,986 --> 00:07:57,153
So people are really used to talking about CV signals and it's almost turning this audio
signal into a control signal.

92
00:07:57,153 --> 00:07:59,144
So it's kind of the same thing.

93
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Hmm.

94
00:08:00,858 --> 00:08:02,924
Wow, that's very cool.

95
00:08:02,924 --> 00:08:06,191
And I got to listen again now because

96
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We also record everything we do.

97
00:08:13,246 --> 00:08:14,514
There's so much to talk about.

98
00:08:14,514 --> 00:08:17,848
I almost don't know where to start.

99
00:08:17,849 --> 00:08:31,356
we record our sessions and also the live performances and the album that's out now that's
called Live is from concerts, from those recordings.

100
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And when we listen back to the recordings,

101
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I don't know, I guess it can be the same for Kristoffer too, but I sometimes really can't
know anymore what I did because it's so, there's so many layers to it.

102
00:08:51,572 --> 00:09:03,316
Of course, when we have improvised for like 40 minutes, you've been on some kind of
journey and it's very in the moment and sort of intense and sometimes...

103
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after you just don't know what really happened because it's such an experience.

104
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But also just listening back.

105
00:09:09,872 --> 00:09:19,399
Sometimes I hear the taps and I can't, I don't know anymore how I, how it happened, how I
did it physically.

106
00:09:20,861 --> 00:09:32,379
And I, I personally really enjoy how abstract my own dancing becomes, how far away like it
becomes a new

107
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a new thing.

108
00:09:34,875 --> 00:09:40,558
Sort of, it's me but it's also not me, of course, because there's so many layers.

109
00:09:41,099 --> 00:09:53,536
yeah, and then if sometimes we also film, I mean, we film all our concerts, but sometimes
we also film a rehearsal and then, and then that watching that and listening to it is

110
00:09:53,536 --> 00:09:58,649
again a very, very different sort of total package or

111
00:10:01,323 --> 00:10:03,724
informs you very differently.

112
00:10:03,825 --> 00:10:11,110
now you've listened a little bit to our album, but we also have videos of all of those
concerts.

113
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And I would be curious to hear how you experience the music or slash the video.

114
00:10:19,077 --> 00:10:30,646
When, if you would see it, if it would change how you would feel about the music or if it
would be distracting or if it would be sort of amplifying or

115
00:10:32,186 --> 00:10:39,252
Because it's such a different expression in a way.

116
00:10:40,558 --> 00:10:54,038
Yeah, I have to imagine there's a lot of discovery happening for you as you're performing,
as you're tapping to start to realize, I'm noticing I'm affecting this parameter because

117
00:10:54,038 --> 00:11:06,018
if Christopher's moving things around and changing what's affecting what, I have to guess
once in a while, cool, I'm making the music kind of move in this way and change in that

118
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way.

119
00:11:06,838 --> 00:11:12,561
Yeah, that's a real big deal for me, this experience.

120
00:11:14,583 --> 00:11:24,970
it keeps like this project, band, where it feels like a never ending research journey or
something.

121
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And I just never get to a conclusion like, this is how I should do that.

122
00:11:31,935 --> 00:11:34,257
Now I do it well and now it's over.

123
00:11:34,257 --> 00:11:36,898
It just keeps on

124
00:11:37,138 --> 00:11:43,861
challenging me and us, I guess, but I feel challenged all the time.

125
00:11:44,578 --> 00:12:02,732
I feel, mean, I'm sort of discovering a lot, but just like in the actual moment of
stepping onto the board or making a sound and then hearing if I have any sort of effect on

126
00:12:02,732 --> 00:12:06,434
anything, we never

127
00:12:07,242 --> 00:12:09,704
He never tells me what's coming.

128
00:12:09,704 --> 00:12:14,487
Maybe he doesn't know himself yet.

129
00:12:14,487 --> 00:12:18,990
Maybe I'm dancing for a little while before anything happens.

130
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in that time, I'm only dealing with my own sound.

131
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I can't sort of expect anything.

132
00:12:27,676 --> 00:12:36,642
But then to deal with whatever's coming instantly asks for a lot of...

133
00:12:37,786 --> 00:12:47,192
trust and sort of you have to just accept and move on immediately all the time.

134
00:12:47,993 --> 00:12:52,636
And that's very challenging and very fun.

135
00:12:55,278 --> 00:12:58,391
And then there's all the different things.

136
00:12:58,391 --> 00:13:00,432
This is maybe a bit hard to imagine.

137
00:13:00,432 --> 00:13:06,446
I don't know, but when I tap dance on different types of floors or different with the

138
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different types of shoes.

139
00:13:08,626 --> 00:13:12,926
I have different, I hear my sound changing, the acoustic sound.

140
00:13:12,926 --> 00:13:23,466
And then I love this floor or I hate these shoes or like there's nuances that I am really
appreciating that I know that nobody else cares about.

141
00:13:23,526 --> 00:13:32,596
If I'm on stage, it can mean a lot to me and then it can mean nothing to the audience
because they just, I'm just really nerdy about my sound, right?

142
00:13:32,596 --> 00:13:33,510
So.

143
00:13:34,220 --> 00:13:49,579
then I suddenly get like a whole universe of other sounds from Kristoffer and it changes
how I feel about my body and how I feel about movement.

144
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:59,565
I can feel so light suddenly and I can feel like my feet can move faster than I thought I
could.

145
00:14:00,908 --> 00:14:09,104
And I will actually move faster, not just an illusion, but it'll sort of free me up or
something.

146
00:14:09,445 --> 00:14:24,087
And then other sounds just are so like if I have a little bit of latency sort of, I'm
probably not using the right words for the technical aspects, but sometimes I trigger

147
00:14:24,087 --> 00:14:28,840
something, but it's a little bit behind me in timing wise.

148
00:14:28,901 --> 00:14:30,482
And then it can be

149
00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,871
so heavy for me to keep going.

150
00:14:33,891 --> 00:14:39,634
And I feel like my tap dancing technique is suddenly gone.

151
00:14:40,654 --> 00:14:46,657
It's not as accessible to me as with those other sounds.

152
00:14:48,558 --> 00:14:54,090
There's so many things that change in my body according to the sound.

153
00:14:54,090 --> 00:14:58,990
And it's really interesting and exciting to...

154
00:14:58,990 --> 00:15:15,930
play with and then to see what my legs are doing, what my feet are doing because it'll
just sort of roll and then if I look down and I'm like what am I doing exactly right now

155
00:15:15,930 --> 00:15:22,476
and I'm I can kick myself out of the thing I'm doing.

156
00:15:22,508 --> 00:15:28,413
And sometimes I can see, okay, it's like a heel and a toe and this and that.

157
00:15:28,413 --> 00:15:38,980
And then I'll be in like, I don't know, a seven, eight, or a really weird five, or some
off, some uneven measure.

158
00:15:38,980 --> 00:15:43,656
And I can hold on to it and keep doing it while being conscious about it.

159
00:15:43,656 --> 00:15:51,802
But many things I have to just let happen.

160
00:15:51,918 --> 00:15:58,838
because it's too new for me to get a grip on it, if you understand what I mean.

161
00:15:59,698 --> 00:16:02,010
So, yeah.

162
00:16:03,609 --> 00:16:09,212
So you're making me think of this psychological experiment that they do on people.

163
00:16:10,213 --> 00:16:21,581
I think it's test like empathy or something along those lines where they put a fake hand
on a table and then you have your hand underneath it and they're touching both of the

164
00:16:21,581 --> 00:16:23,463
hands in the same way, right?

165
00:16:23,463 --> 00:16:28,066
And what they found is if then they suddenly hit the fake hand with a hammer, people go,
ow.

166
00:16:28,206 --> 00:16:28,672
Mm-hmm.

167
00:16:28,672 --> 00:16:30,505
they feel that so changes there.

168
00:16:30,505 --> 00:16:40,509
Now if you're getting these different sensations does it almost do this sort of thing
where the ground feels different than it really is?

169
00:16:40,562 --> 00:16:42,525
Yeah, I definitely feel like this.

170
00:16:42,525 --> 00:16:45,847
And I mean, it's not painful.

171
00:16:46,548 --> 00:16:50,250
I'm not being hit.

172
00:16:51,572 --> 00:16:52,572
yeah.

173
00:16:53,214 --> 00:16:54,315
Yeah, absolutely.

174
00:16:54,315 --> 00:16:55,255
Absolutely.

175
00:16:55,255 --> 00:17:08,354
It really changes sort of my perception of my own kinesthetics, my own feeling of what my
muscles can do.

176
00:17:08,354 --> 00:17:12,495
what my physical body can do.

177
00:17:12,954 --> 00:17:29,180
it can be really frustrating if it's like a sound that's sort of too heavy or too
challenging and I sort of have to fight for it and I can work myself into a cramp or

178
00:17:29,180 --> 00:17:30,380
something.

179
00:17:30,980 --> 00:17:34,721
It can be tough, but it can also be the opposite.

180
00:17:34,721 --> 00:17:37,344
It can be very liberating.

181
00:17:37,344 --> 00:17:42,358
And it was also liberating just to understand that this is happening.

182
00:17:42,358 --> 00:17:48,662
That it's not me that one day I can tap dance and the next day I cannot tap dance.

183
00:17:48,943 --> 00:17:52,045
That it's not my skills, but it's really the...

184
00:17:52,045 --> 00:17:53,206
It's external factor.

185
00:17:53,206 --> 00:17:56,789
The feeling that I'm dealing with at the moment.

186
00:17:56,789 --> 00:18:03,616
And in many ways I feel like this applies to life and...

187
00:18:03,616 --> 00:18:15,326
other types of interactions as well, any kind of dialogue and how a certain voice impacts
you and etc.

188
00:18:15,326 --> 00:18:25,624
mean, it's much broader topic in a way, but in this case, cool experience and experiment.

189
00:18:26,666 --> 00:18:31,990
I think more tap dancers should feel it.

190
00:18:32,450 --> 00:18:36,191
should experience it because it's enriching in a way.

191
00:18:37,538 --> 00:18:43,842
Yeah, it really says a lot about the way our brain is reacting to the sensory input that
it's receiving.

192
00:18:43,883 --> 00:18:51,689
And when your hearing is telling you something so different than what's actually
happening, we go along with it.

193
00:18:52,570 --> 00:18:57,513
I felt something like that sometimes if I have like a synth guitar.

194
00:18:58,124 --> 00:19:06,817
where you kind of expect, or sometimes even certain pedals, where the guitar, you pluck
the string, the sound happens, it's a loud transient, and then it fades down.

195
00:19:06,817 --> 00:19:07,857
That's the normal thing.

196
00:19:07,857 --> 00:19:11,558
But sometimes with different effects, you pluck it, it might swell.

197
00:19:11,558 --> 00:19:16,959
And it almost makes you feel like your strings are loose or rubbery or something like
that.

198
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:17,970
But it's not.

199
00:19:17,970 --> 00:19:24,022
And like you said too, there have been times where I can play something until I look at
it.

200
00:19:24,022 --> 00:19:25,022
And then...

201
00:19:25,162 --> 00:19:27,537
No, the strings are not reacting differently.

202
00:19:27,537 --> 00:19:35,201
It's just the way I'm hearing it and it's hard to think when you're doing that.

203
00:19:36,791 --> 00:19:38,971
Yeah, it's almost like...

204
00:19:38,971 --> 00:19:43,032
It's the same thing as when people are...

205
00:19:43,032 --> 00:19:48,414
If people are using VR and they get nauseous, it's because their senses are not matching
up.

206
00:19:48,414 --> 00:19:51,955
So the brain thinks that you're probably poisoned.

207
00:19:51,955 --> 00:19:53,755
So that's why I want to...

208
00:19:53,755 --> 00:19:57,536
Some people need to puke after they've been doing VR.

209
00:19:58,036 --> 00:20:04,458
Because it's like your sight and sound is telling you one thing and then they're like...

210
00:20:05,998 --> 00:20:14,898
I don't know, their movement and so on, their physical touch and so on is telling them
something else and gravity, the sense of gravity.

211
00:20:14,898 --> 00:20:23,898
And then if it's just like the frame rate is just a little bit choppy, then it's like the
brain is like, no, I don't believe this.

212
00:20:23,898 --> 00:20:27,778
But when it's enough, then it's like, I believe it.

213
00:20:27,778 --> 00:20:29,298
I believe it.

214
00:20:31,596 --> 00:20:43,810
Yeah, well, that's, mean, that's just fascinating that it, it takes the whole art of tap
dancing and dance is usually, and music is kind of a one way street, right?

215
00:20:43,810 --> 00:20:50,452
You dance to the music and now your dance is changing the music.

216
00:20:50,912 --> 00:20:55,394
And there's this back and forth now that you wouldn't normally have.

217
00:20:55,483 --> 00:21:02,846
mean, it's the tap dancers have been working with these types of things before.

218
00:21:03,706 --> 00:21:06,367
But it's all very individual, of course.

219
00:21:06,367 --> 00:21:16,772
And I mean, I come with a certain set of skills or background and every tap dancer is
different, I would say.

220
00:21:16,772 --> 00:21:22,334
But the biggest difference is that Kristoffer is so

221
00:21:24,122 --> 00:21:25,303
so good.

222
00:21:27,964 --> 00:21:40,709
So it just has a big sort of capacity for the technical part of it, but then also the
musical part of it.

223
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:47,472
And of course, now we've spent five years and we keep sort of digging in this direction.

224
00:21:47,872 --> 00:21:51,874
And that's a really big luxury to have.

225
00:21:51,874 --> 00:21:57,257
I'm very glad that I bumped into Kristoffer in a project one day.

226
00:21:57,857 --> 00:22:14,106
Because I could never, like if I would have started this kind of project on my own, I
would have had to learn so much about the technical part of it before I even could like

227
00:22:14,787 --> 00:22:15,547
play.

228
00:22:15,547 --> 00:22:19,209
mean, play as in have fun and really get going.

229
00:22:19,209 --> 00:22:20,590
And so...

230
00:22:21,070 --> 00:22:25,580
So that's just really lucky, I would say.

231
00:22:25,580 --> 00:22:26,510
Right.

232
00:22:26,851 --> 00:22:31,074
You had to have somebody doing that stuff that you can interact with.

233
00:22:32,196 --> 00:22:39,650
the surprise factor just seems really cool too, where you kind of like, yeah.

234
00:22:39,671 --> 00:22:50,914
it's like I can set up something and then I can kind of guess a little bit what Janne is
going to do with it.

235
00:22:51,014 --> 00:22:53,410
But then she does something differently.

236
00:22:53,410 --> 00:23:04,578
And then I have to make a decision like, do I now kind of just stay with this and then let
Janne explore it and she will figure out the cool way to use it or

237
00:23:04,578 --> 00:23:07,103
Do I adapt to what she is doing?

238
00:23:07,124 --> 00:23:11,654
And this like back and forth conversation is happening all the time.

239
00:23:14,414 --> 00:23:21,300
Do you need to have some kind of click track metronome that you follow or does she set
that?

240
00:23:21,361 --> 00:23:22,361
Yeah.

241
00:23:23,122 --> 00:23:23,823
Right.

242
00:23:23,823 --> 00:23:33,151
And then because you're using those sounds almost like you said, like CV, it must be a
very fluid type of thing, right?

243
00:23:34,573 --> 00:23:35,017
Yeah.

244
00:23:35,017 --> 00:23:39,820
Everything is just very one-to-one in a way.

245
00:23:40,081 --> 00:23:50,208
for example, in this project I need to have the buffer size on 64 to keep it snappy enough
because the tap sound is so short.

246
00:23:50,229 --> 00:23:57,594
So I had done some of these kind of techniques before with drummers.

247
00:23:58,072 --> 00:24:01,926
But if it's like a snare drum, the sound is much longer.

248
00:24:01,926 --> 00:24:09,813
So if there is a little bit more latency, the snare drum masks it because there is sound
in the gap.

249
00:24:09,813 --> 00:24:18,880
But with the tap sound, it stops so quickly that if there would be more latency, you
really hear it.

250
00:24:19,001 --> 00:24:22,344
So I need to have it on 64, need to keep it very snappy.

251
00:24:22,344 --> 00:24:25,376
And then as Janne talked about, it's like...

252
00:24:26,142 --> 00:24:30,883
very different how you experience the different sounds.

253
00:24:30,883 --> 00:24:40,586
like the technical latency is stable, but the practical latency depends of course on the
sound.

254
00:24:40,586 --> 00:24:48,508
Like is there a of a round attack curve on it or is it a very defined attack point?

255
00:24:48,648 --> 00:24:51,189
And how quickly does this happen?

256
00:24:51,189 --> 00:24:55,110
And what frequency range is it in?

257
00:24:55,110 --> 00:24:56,056
Is it kind of

258
00:24:56,056 --> 00:25:10,614
continuation of the acoustic tap sound or is it a super different one so you really hear
when it starts and all of this kind of stuff really affects the groove and how everything

259
00:25:10,614 --> 00:25:13,936
feels and melts together and so on.

260
00:25:13,976 --> 00:25:24,352
And then it's also very interesting for me because okay I have the kind of overhead to
keep up with

261
00:25:24,768 --> 00:25:31,602
all of these technical layers and like, okay, now I'm gonna sample here and then she's
gonna trigger it like this and then I mix it like this.

262
00:25:31,702 --> 00:25:40,507
And then the next one is like, okay, keep track of the harmonies and the tonalities.

263
00:25:41,708 --> 00:25:49,412
But then it's like, then we are playing, I have no idea what time signature she is in now.

264
00:25:49,412 --> 00:25:52,814
So then I only think about it as pulses.

265
00:25:53,014 --> 00:25:58,901
So it's almost like putting the time signature in live to like one fourth.

266
00:25:58,901 --> 00:26:02,104
So it's just the same over and over again.

267
00:26:03,467 --> 00:26:04,448
But that's just sometimes.

268
00:26:04,448 --> 00:26:09,573
Sometimes it's very clear, sometimes it's impossible.

269
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:10,922
that's really funny.

270
00:26:10,922 --> 00:26:12,897
So you're not getting any kind of indication.

271
00:26:12,897 --> 00:26:14,115
This is the beginning of the bar.

272
00:26:14,115 --> 00:26:16,384
It's just kind of always at the beginning of the bar.

273
00:26:16,438 --> 00:26:22,045
Yeah, and sometimes we are like, we have different, so it's like, I think the one is here
and she thinks the one is here.

274
00:26:22,045 --> 00:26:26,230
And then we just play and that actually creates a very cool groove.

275
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:34,260
then the patterns then like, overlap and they sync, but they go in different rounds kind
of.

276
00:26:35,803 --> 00:26:48,911
Well, that's a trick I like to do in my own just regular, you old fashioned music
production is have like a three bar loop, a five bar loop and a four bar loop playing

277
00:26:48,911 --> 00:26:49,832
together.

278
00:26:49,832 --> 00:26:53,434
It works really nicely with percussive stuff because

279
00:26:54,306 --> 00:27:04,772
there's not as much, I can keep my chord progressions maybe in like a common time, like
four, four, but then all this other stuff is looping in these different kind of patterns.

280
00:27:04,772 --> 00:27:08,154
It really extends the musical idea out a lot.

281
00:27:09,870 --> 00:27:10,991
Yeah, it's fun.

282
00:27:10,991 --> 00:27:11,692
Yeah.

283
00:27:11,692 --> 00:27:18,597
And if it's like, it's quite common to like, if you have a sequencer and you can maybe set
the length of the different rows.

284
00:27:18,597 --> 00:27:22,400
So you have one that's like seven steps and one with eight step.

285
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,143
So it will take like eight steps or seven steps before they sync up again.

286
00:27:26,143 --> 00:27:28,905
So they will create a longer, longer phrase.

287
00:27:28,946 --> 00:27:38,573
But then you add the thing that maybe the timing goes like one, two, three, four, five,
six, seven, eight.

288
00:27:39,779 --> 00:27:47,101
So then it's like, then it's not, or this, this synchronization points kind of move in a
different flow as well.

289
00:27:48,262 --> 00:27:51,403
It's a, it's really fun to play with.

290
00:27:51,924 --> 00:28:07,530
I enjoyed a lot this sometimes these, yeah, polymetric feeling type of things that we do,
but also this slowing down and speeding, speeding up and, and, or

291
00:28:07,692 --> 00:28:18,466
being busy with texture and then suddenly letting some groove roll out of it and sort of
plastic feeling.

292
00:28:18,662 --> 00:28:33,943
And I often try to remind myself that it's also cool to have a steady groove sometimes and
then just to like provide something that's as even as possible for a long time, either

293
00:28:33,943 --> 00:28:36,480
without any feeling of a

294
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:47,697
of bars or with the proper time signature that's easy to understand or to feel.

295
00:28:49,539 --> 00:28:59,226
my problem is that I will react so quickly on any impulse and any inspiration that it's
hard to...

296
00:29:00,150 --> 00:29:05,370
I have to sometimes remind myself of how real drummers work.

297
00:29:05,462 --> 00:29:12,125
and how they can actually hold the groove for a really long time and keep it steady and
keep it grooving.

298
00:29:12,125 --> 00:29:23,110
not, and if they take a, a break and then come back to it, that they're just as steady as
they like, of course that's an ambition for me to, to, I want to be able to do that.

299
00:29:23,110 --> 00:29:30,253
It's just so much fun to jump from one to the other, like to, to, to play with stuff.

300
00:29:30,253 --> 00:29:32,334
So it's tempting to.

301
00:29:32,526 --> 00:29:38,588
Yeah, and many times I am doing something steady and I get an impulse and then I have this
dilemma.

302
00:29:39,468 --> 00:29:48,751
Can I now play and let my, can I let the groove go and play with this new thing I heard or
does everything fall apart if I do that?

303
00:29:48,751 --> 00:29:50,361
And that all depends.

304
00:29:50,361 --> 00:29:59,074
And sometimes I don't know, we're in the middle of the music and I don't know how many
layers are connected to my sound.

305
00:30:00,158 --> 00:30:04,219
And so if I stop, maybe the whole thing stops.

306
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:06,241
Or not.

307
00:30:06,241 --> 00:30:22,617
And so I have some strategies to figure things out in those situations to test, to double
check what's actually attached to my feet right now and how can I keep it steady and then

308
00:30:22,617 --> 00:30:25,468
make a more conscious choice.

309
00:30:27,589 --> 00:30:29,570
If you understand what I mean.

310
00:30:30,308 --> 00:30:30,777
Yeah.

311
00:30:30,777 --> 00:30:33,567
just so many layers sometimes.

312
00:30:35,810 --> 00:30:41,116
Yeah, you must sometimes wonder how much power I have right now.

313
00:30:42,659 --> 00:30:44,672
Christopher, what am I controlling right now?

314
00:30:44,672 --> 00:30:48,298
It'd be nice to almost have like a communication device.

315
00:30:48,298 --> 00:30:52,999
Yeah, because it could be, feel like I could have like five instruments that I'm playing
at the same time.

316
00:30:52,999 --> 00:31:02,822
And then if I hear that the rhythms are really clearly all mine, then yeah, then I can
assume that I am playing them.

317
00:31:02,822 --> 00:31:10,824
But sometimes some of these sounds are uneven in how they sort of react to me or how I
play them.

318
00:31:10,824 --> 00:31:17,506
So it's harder for me to detect that this one bass sound that comes every

319
00:31:17,656 --> 00:31:31,317
fourth hard stomp I'm doing is also something I am doing because it's in between all the
other steps and sounds and rhythms that I'm making and it's only reacting when I hit the

320
00:31:31,317 --> 00:31:33,279
heel just there with the mic.

321
00:31:33,279 --> 00:31:34,720
like it's a...

322
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,765
Yeah, these are like interesting, almost like playing games with each other, you know?

323
00:31:39,765 --> 00:31:46,830
So when I'm playing there and it's like, okay, I can, for example, say this bass.

324
00:31:47,114 --> 00:31:56,221
is I have a sequencer and then I press in some notes and then every time she taps hard
enough it plays the next note.

325
00:31:56,221 --> 00:31:57,872
Then it's like very one-to-one.

326
00:31:57,872 --> 00:32:01,604
It's like this will follow Janne's groove perfectly.

327
00:32:01,645 --> 00:32:10,250
But I can also do something differently and like play the bass like manually and loop it.

328
00:32:10,591 --> 00:32:15,094
But I close the filter almost all the way.

329
00:32:15,670 --> 00:32:20,114
And then I like sidechain, use this envelope follower to Janne.

330
00:32:20,114 --> 00:32:23,536
So every time she taps, actually the filter pops up.

331
00:32:23,777 --> 00:32:25,728
So that's very different thing.

332
00:32:25,728 --> 00:32:32,924
Like this bass actually has its own timing, but it also follows Janne's timing.

333
00:32:32,924 --> 00:32:36,927
And these two can kind of push and pull together.

334
00:32:36,927 --> 00:32:41,490
And then all of a sudden they're like, okay, now it perfectly locks.

335
00:32:41,651 --> 00:32:45,844
And then maybe Janne thinks, yeah, it's more like one-to-one thing.

336
00:32:45,856 --> 00:32:51,129
And then she like stops or do one of these tests or change it.

337
00:32:51,129 --> 00:32:55,931
And then it's like, no, the bass is actually now just playing differently, but it's still
playing.

338
00:32:55,931 --> 00:32:57,552
And I tried to stop it.

339
00:32:57,552 --> 00:32:59,193
So it's like all this back and forth.

340
00:32:59,193 --> 00:33:01,414
It's a little bit of a game kind of.

341
00:33:02,906 --> 00:33:17,310
Right, you're like kind of figuring out what's happening as you go There's a sensation of
that sometimes if you're Playing I think especially like electronic music side sometimes

342
00:33:17,310 --> 00:33:26,313
jam with other people using live say for instance Ableton live and There can be a point
where you're wondering like am I making that sound or are you making that sound?

343
00:33:26,313 --> 00:33:30,594
Like who's who's doing that and like you can then you realize always me

344
00:33:31,726 --> 00:33:42,468
Because, but with this, when you have the different ways to send the information back and
forth, and it's much more abstract, I suppose, right?

345
00:33:42,468 --> 00:33:53,689
Like a tap doesn't usually mean a filter opens up in kind of the regular world or normally
that we're used to.

346
00:33:54,766 --> 00:34:10,952
Yeah, and then it can be like even the next level, can be also that both the sound, like
the acoustic sound of Janne or the sound from the contact mic goes through some effects

347
00:34:10,952 --> 00:34:13,413
that we cannot hear yet.

348
00:34:13,413 --> 00:34:20,936
also this track and the bass track, they both go into a different kind of distortion bus.

349
00:34:21,337 --> 00:34:24,818
And then it's like, yeah, if Janne taps now,

350
00:34:25,314 --> 00:34:33,322
the raw sound will get through, but she will also open the filter of this bass, so we'll
actually kind of squeeze out this raw sound.

351
00:34:33,322 --> 00:34:44,683
And then after like three bars, actually, there is a little bit of a too low note in the
bass, so then the raw sound comes through and it creates kind of a feedback.

352
00:34:44,683 --> 00:34:50,078
it's like, so there are all these kind of interactions also interacting with each other,
you know.

353
00:34:51,214 --> 00:34:52,264
That's really cool.

354
00:34:52,264 --> 00:34:57,761
And that's something that happens a lot of times with acoustic instruments.

355
00:34:57,761 --> 00:35:07,330
Just even when you're within a room or recording on to say tape, there is some sort of
interaction that happens a lot.

356
00:35:07,330 --> 00:35:13,516
And I've found in my own productions, a lot of what I'm doing is trying to recreate some
of that.

357
00:35:15,362 --> 00:35:18,142
but now you've got it on a new level.

358
00:35:18,142 --> 00:35:19,684
I love it.

359
00:35:19,864 --> 00:35:24,386
What is your actual gear that you're using?

360
00:35:24,386 --> 00:35:31,068
What pieces, how many things do you have to make all this magic transformation and
communication happen?

361
00:35:32,529 --> 00:35:34,242
We know we got the two mics, right?

362
00:35:34,242 --> 00:35:35,047
So.

363
00:35:35,047 --> 00:35:36,579
yeah.

364
00:35:36,579 --> 00:35:39,552
So that's start.

365
00:35:40,094 --> 00:35:42,136
And the contact mark on the floor then.

366
00:35:42,358 --> 00:35:44,808
Okay, so it's like three inputs you're getting.

367
00:35:45,046 --> 00:35:48,647
Actually, the acoustic sound doesn't go to me at all.

368
00:35:48,647 --> 00:35:51,048
That just goes to the PA.

369
00:35:51,429 --> 00:35:54,570
So it's just the contact mic that goes into my setup.

370
00:35:55,070 --> 00:36:08,355
And then for the most part, I use a setup that actually people can go and have a look at
in the previous episode of that I was on the music production podcast.

371
00:36:09,316 --> 00:36:14,114
But a quick, yeah, second time.

372
00:36:14,114 --> 00:36:18,716
But a quick recap is that I have two Mac Minis.

373
00:36:19,117 --> 00:36:27,201
And the reason why it's two is because I've used the same setup for quite a while now and
the earlier Mac Minis.

374
00:36:28,042 --> 00:36:36,107
Like I could do a few tracks, but since I had to have this low buffer size, like when I
wanted to expand it, I actually had to get the second computer.

375
00:36:36,808 --> 00:36:41,250
So it's the two Mac Minis with sound cards.

376
00:36:41,710 --> 00:36:46,930
And then for the controller part, it's a Linnstrument, the Linnstrument 128.

377
00:36:46,930 --> 00:36:51,810
That's kind of my MIDI keyboard where I play notes and so on.

378
00:36:52,750 --> 00:36:55,310
And then I have a split.

379
00:36:55,310 --> 00:37:00,750
on the left side, I also have some of the pads.

380
00:37:00,910 --> 00:37:05,210
I use this polyphonic expression, so I don't play notes.

381
00:37:05,210 --> 00:37:07,750
I just control parameters with it.

382
00:37:08,010 --> 00:37:09,294
Then I have...

383
00:37:09,294 --> 00:37:17,054
little fader fox controller with 24 knobs and a couple of the monom grids.

384
00:37:17,434 --> 00:37:24,474
But then this whole magic is that with this monom grids, they are controlling this max
patch that I talked about.

385
00:37:24,474 --> 00:37:28,194
And then all of this stuff get like a lot of banks.

386
00:37:28,194 --> 00:37:36,074
So then I can like this, these 24 knobs, actually, it's like 200 knobs, or 256 knobs.

387
00:37:37,094 --> 00:37:38,439
And then I have

388
00:37:38,439 --> 00:37:41,884
about that last time and I avoid banks.

389
00:37:42,126 --> 00:37:46,427
I want my knobs to always do the same thing and you're like, nope, not me.

390
00:37:46,427 --> 00:37:52,669
the secret trick to make this work is my tiny little Arduino screen.

391
00:37:52,829 --> 00:37:58,292
So it has just two lines of text, but it is right there in the setup.

392
00:37:58,292 --> 00:38:03,153
So whenever I turn a knob or press a button, says on the screen what I just did.

393
00:38:04,014 --> 00:38:14,178
So for example, if I go to bank one and I turn knob one, I go to bank two, and now the
physical knob doesn't line up with the parameter on bank two.

394
00:38:14,254 --> 00:38:25,894
As soon as I touch it, it says on the screen, like, okay, you are trying to control filter
cutoff and the physical knob is here, but the parameter is here.

395
00:38:25,894 --> 00:38:27,594
So you have to go here and get it.

396
00:38:27,594 --> 00:38:30,344
So I don't have to like listen like, is it working now?

397
00:38:30,344 --> 00:38:38,588
said, okay, now I think it's working, but I can actually see like, you have to go to value
of 20, then I get it.

398
00:38:38,588 --> 00:38:44,482
so it won't do anything until you pass through that value with the control.

399
00:38:44,684 --> 00:38:45,350
Gotcha.

400
00:38:45,350 --> 00:38:53,140
like the pickup mode in live, except I kind of recreated it in Max so I can see it on the
screen what value I need to get to.

401
00:38:53,506 --> 00:38:55,147
Yeah, nice.

402
00:38:55,147 --> 00:38:57,009
That makes a lot of sense in that case.

403
00:38:57,009 --> 00:39:18,288
So I usually use the, I forget what it's called right now, where it kind of, if my values
say it's 64, but my knobs at 20, and I turn it lower, will move the, it's value scaling.

404
00:39:18,288 --> 00:39:20,890
Yeah, it's a scaling, something like that, yeah.

405
00:39:21,196 --> 00:39:28,391
Yeah, so that way at least it does something, you know, but you don't want that in that
case.

406
00:39:30,353 --> 00:39:33,595
How long did it take you to build that setup?

407
00:39:33,595 --> 00:39:37,758
Was this something that you, I have to imagine?

408
00:39:38,098 --> 00:39:41,100
I mean, unless you are kind of a wizard here.

409
00:39:41,100 --> 00:39:48,926
So I would have to imagine there's a lot of figuring this out and adding things and going
rather than I built it all and now we're ready to play.

410
00:39:49,304 --> 00:39:54,878
Yeah, actually, I did it as part of my bachelor project when I was studying music
technology.

411
00:39:55,740 --> 00:40:05,767
And then I actually just wanted to make a system where I could control a lot of things in
a small amount of space.

412
00:40:06,529 --> 00:40:10,962
And I had tried a few different ways of doing it.

413
00:40:10,962 --> 00:40:16,057
Like I the Ableton Push 1, et cetera.

414
00:40:16,057 --> 00:40:18,028
And then like you can...

415
00:40:18,286 --> 00:40:20,488
move around and all of this.

416
00:40:20,788 --> 00:40:27,874
But the problem with that one is it's so locked in, like you have to use it exactly how
Ableton wants you to use it.

417
00:40:28,695 --> 00:40:31,437
While I like to set up all this custom stuff.

418
00:40:31,437 --> 00:40:37,012
So it started with me thinking like, how can I do this?

419
00:40:37,012 --> 00:40:42,046
And this was also like learning max kind of project.

420
00:40:42,307 --> 00:40:43,788
And then it just started there.

421
00:40:43,788 --> 00:40:46,790
And I was like, yeah, now I can control this.

422
00:40:47,224 --> 00:40:50,355
this now I made this virtual banks.

423
00:40:50,835 --> 00:40:59,938
And actually, the way I do it now, I am actually able to get the value somewhere else and
just combine the two.

424
00:40:59,938 --> 00:41:04,079
And then my my what's it called?

425
00:41:04,079 --> 00:41:09,800
Valet, the counselor, guidance person, my teacher.

426
00:41:10,701 --> 00:41:13,792
He said like, Yeah, it's very nice to things you're doing now.

427
00:41:13,792 --> 00:41:14,642
But

428
00:41:14,744 --> 00:41:18,897
If I were to say anything about the whole setup, it's quite like binary now.

429
00:41:18,897 --> 00:41:31,465
It's like on and off and very like you have these knobs, but there is no like, no like
human expression, weird input kind of things.

430
00:41:31,465 --> 00:41:37,139
So then I implemented this, the polyphonic aftertouch things on the, on instrument.

431
00:41:37,139 --> 00:41:44,704
So, so these pads control the same as the knobs, but I can do multiple fingers and like
move up and down.

432
00:41:45,388 --> 00:41:48,770
And I was like, yeah, and it would be maybe nice with LFOs.

433
00:41:48,770 --> 00:41:50,240
So I made that.

434
00:41:50,301 --> 00:41:52,042
And then also, yeah, envelope.

435
00:41:52,042 --> 00:41:53,263
And I was like, yeah.

436
00:41:53,263 --> 00:41:56,044
And we can also do maybe audio envelope.

437
00:41:56,044 --> 00:42:03,388
And not too long after this, I was invited to join Janne for project.

438
00:42:03,388 --> 00:42:05,049
And that's the first time we met.

439
00:42:05,130 --> 00:42:13,334
And then I was like, yeah, tap dancer, Wonder what cool connections I can get from that.

440
00:42:13,730 --> 00:42:19,732
Like you think about the whole world as the big modular system of plugging everything into
everything, you know?

441
00:42:21,133 --> 00:42:22,494
So that's where it started.

442
00:42:22,494 --> 00:42:25,655
And then it's just slowly, slowly built over time.

443
00:42:25,655 --> 00:42:32,738
like I added the second Mac Mini, which is like, it's controlled from the first one.

444
00:42:32,738 --> 00:42:42,104
it's basically just like a little module kind of, you know, those old rack synths that
they would just plug a MIDI cable into.

445
00:42:42,104 --> 00:42:45,353
Kind of like that except it has the media and the audio.

446
00:42:46,478 --> 00:42:47,258
Hmm.

447
00:42:47,298 --> 00:42:53,444
Well, it's kind of comforting or reassuring to hear that it was this development.

448
00:42:54,205 --> 00:43:03,953
Because I think, anyone like listening that wanted to try to figure out how to build some
kind of setup like this, it seems overwhelming if you look at it where you are today.

449
00:43:05,002 --> 00:43:17,411
Seeing that it started somewhere and built and it's even really cool that this was your
learn max project so you had this mission and through that mission you're learning the

450
00:43:17,411 --> 00:43:26,917
software which is ultimately taking you down new roads even still today to Change things
if you want or interact differently

451
00:43:26,958 --> 00:43:38,624
Yeah, and if people want to start trying out some of these things, now there are actually
quite a lot of built-in tools into Live with some of these, like there are envelope

452
00:43:38,624 --> 00:43:41,256
followers in Max for Live that you can route the stuff.

453
00:43:41,256 --> 00:43:49,590
And I remember in the earlier projects, I also just used the sidechain input on the filter
and on the gate and so on.

454
00:43:49,590 --> 00:43:56,734
Just make sure like the attack and look ahead and all of these parameters are like on the
lowest level.

455
00:43:56,734 --> 00:43:58,565
snappiest and so on.

456
00:43:58,565 --> 00:44:17,910
you can actually, that's, I also teach like yourself and one thing I very often tell my
students is that if you start first by understanding what is happening like practically,

457
00:44:17,910 --> 00:44:25,622
like musically, like if you can just describe the sound, you don't think about the
technical stuff, but it's like what is happening here?

458
00:44:25,656 --> 00:44:31,569
And then like you understand that, it's getting brighter, the more sound that comes in.

459
00:44:31,569 --> 00:44:33,200
And then you can go to the next level.

460
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:39,934
It's like, okay, and how would we implement this in the most crude, easy, technical way?

461
00:44:39,934 --> 00:44:42,735
And then you can like build and build and build on.

462
00:44:42,896 --> 00:44:54,902
And if you think about it like this, then it's also much easier to get familiar with
different gear and different software and all of this, because all of them are

463
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,644
building on the same concepts.

464
00:44:59,662 --> 00:45:10,762
And then you can make your super fancy custom solution that makes you able to do the
ultimate version of this and change the routings and so on super fast.

465
00:45:10,762 --> 00:45:24,262
But you can actually start building some of these things and exploring it in your
production and simple things like, okay, I have a synthesizer here and I put a gate on it

466
00:45:24,262 --> 00:45:28,856
and I side-chain the gate to a drum kit, for example, inside Live.

467
00:45:31,567 --> 00:45:34,038
Yeah, learning those small things.

468
00:45:34,038 --> 00:45:37,880
That's a lot of what we do is these little building blocks.

469
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:39,071
It's very modular.

470
00:45:39,071 --> 00:45:49,857
Like you said, like once you learn on a synthesizer, envelopes and filters and LFOs,
suddenly you can do that on almost anything.

471
00:45:49,857 --> 00:45:53,749
Any synthesizer, any sound really, you start thinking of things a little differently.

472
00:45:53,749 --> 00:45:56,640
Yeah.

473
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,821
The envelope follows a cool one.

474
00:45:58,898 --> 00:46:02,558
yeah, and then you've done it on a synth and it's like, yeah, and here's a sampler.

475
00:46:02,558 --> 00:46:03,818
It's like, it's all the same.

476
00:46:03,818 --> 00:46:06,774
We just changed the oscillator part to a sound file.

477
00:46:06,892 --> 00:46:09,088
Yeah, that's how I explain it too.

478
00:46:09,088 --> 00:46:16,136
It's normally we have sine waves, but now we have the sound of maybe in your case, tap.

479
00:46:17,232 --> 00:46:18,374
Yeah

480
00:46:19,947 --> 00:46:33,909
I could certainly see how it's challenging to try to recreate a performance in your case
because there's so many variables and sometimes that even happens, I mean even just

481
00:46:33,909 --> 00:46:45,003
playing my guitar sometimes I hear something I gotta figure out what I did and it can be
complicated if there's some effects going on or some processing happening but in this

482
00:46:45,003 --> 00:46:47,477
case, yeah.

483
00:46:47,482 --> 00:46:51,504
Yeah, but it's also, yeah, that's true.

484
00:46:51,504 --> 00:47:08,791
But it's also like, I feel with every music project, you kind of decide on what is the
focus on the project and like, okay, now I'm going to go on stage and I'm going to do this

485
00:47:08,791 --> 00:47:09,651
thing.

486
00:47:10,092 --> 00:47:16,334
And that thing can be like, okay, I'm going to go on stage and I'm going to show.

487
00:47:16,438 --> 00:47:26,954
Like we're to play the most technical rock music and I'm going to play the fastest on
guitar and everyone's going to be really wowed and then they're going to be very energized

488
00:47:26,954 --> 00:47:27,924
by all these rhythms.

489
00:47:27,924 --> 00:47:36,649
Like that can be one thing or it's like, okay, I'm going to go out and I'm going to sing
the most heartfelt and everyone is going to cry.

490
00:47:36,949 --> 00:47:44,253
And with this project, I feel it's very much this like exploration aspect.

491
00:47:44,253 --> 00:47:46,604
So like now we're going to go on stage.

492
00:47:46,638 --> 00:47:54,338
And we're going to have this conversation where we are constantly exploring and talking to
each other.

493
00:47:54,338 --> 00:47:57,258
And then we're going to see what comes out of it.

494
00:47:57,258 --> 00:48:03,678
And we kind of know some things because we use the same instruments over and over.

495
00:48:03,818 --> 00:48:10,838
like maybe I start doing something and it's like, this sounds a little bit similar to one
thing we did.

496
00:48:10,838 --> 00:48:13,288
So maybe he's trying to go in that direction now.

497
00:48:13,288 --> 00:48:15,982
So maybe I'm going do something towards that.

498
00:48:16,130 --> 00:48:23,796
But on the way we change and it's always this back and forth and that's kind of the core
of the project in a way.

499
00:48:23,796 --> 00:48:33,322
So then we actually don't want to recreate that much because that's not what the project
is about in a way.

500
00:48:33,322 --> 00:48:40,637
But I could imagine that we could go there at some point.

501
00:48:40,637 --> 00:48:44,550
Like it's just there's sort of like too much to do.

502
00:48:45,134 --> 00:48:51,546
too many nice things to explore and to practice with.

503
00:48:51,546 --> 00:49:06,140
So for example, we had a release concert two weeks ago, I guess, and we were so lucky to
have it in a theater, a big black box.

504
00:49:06,980 --> 00:49:13,472
And we wanted to use this occasion to work with the space as well.

505
00:49:13,992 --> 00:49:25,171
And it was super, yeah, I mean, it's challenging and it's hard work and we did it, it
worked, but it's hard work.

506
00:49:25,371 --> 00:49:33,137
But we really enjoy discovering how this then works with certain visuals.

507
00:49:33,318 --> 00:49:43,872
We also have a miniature version of our playing together where I play with just fingers
and Kristoffer has that.

508
00:49:43,872 --> 00:49:46,484
absolute minimal setup.

509
00:49:46,905 --> 00:49:58,994
And then it's projected on a big screen and then later there's another visual coming in
and then there's light and then there's some haze and then I'm moving through the whole

510
00:49:58,994 --> 00:50:09,293
space and testing, know, if I get, when I get closer to Christopher, when do I start
triggering something?

511
00:50:09,293 --> 00:50:13,406
Is it when I'm five meters away or four meters away?

512
00:50:14,954 --> 00:50:21,436
And it's just, I just really love to work like this.

513
00:50:22,116 --> 00:50:27,158
So, and it's like, there's not enough time anyway.

514
00:50:27,158 --> 00:50:32,659
So we just have to sort of keep on our track.

515
00:50:32,659 --> 00:50:43,382
But I'm also curious how it would be to do like sort of boot camp, to spend a week.

516
00:50:43,670 --> 00:50:56,715
trying to recreate certain things again and again and again and to see what that would do
with our, with my tap dancing and with his playing.

517
00:50:56,715 --> 00:51:04,558
Like how would that, would that free up in the end free up some brain space so I could
do...

518
00:51:06,658 --> 00:51:21,089
I don't know, that I could tap dance faster or be more clean or would it be really
satisfying to sort of nail certain things even though they would be weird and in weird

519
00:51:21,711 --> 00:51:26,274
time signatures or with seven funky layers or whatever.

520
00:51:27,595 --> 00:51:35,762
I'm also curious about that, what that would tell us and what we would learn from it and
what we would...

521
00:51:36,024 --> 00:51:41,896
sort of take into the next stage of our project.

522
00:51:42,836 --> 00:51:51,218
If we sort of learned this or nerded around this for a long time.

523
00:51:52,019 --> 00:51:56,370
It's sort of on our list of things that we could explore, but that list is long.

524
00:51:56,370 --> 00:51:59,401
It's like there's so much, there's so many things.

525
00:51:59,401 --> 00:52:03,810
We also, a year ago, there was another huge...

526
00:52:03,810 --> 00:52:17,446
release of my own album where also Christopher joined me for one track and at the concert
we had a third player, a percussionist, like a classical percussionist played on a

527
00:52:17,446 --> 00:52:18,816
vibraphone.

528
00:52:19,797 --> 00:52:28,640
And then also I played on a self-made chime made of hanging taps.

529
00:52:28,941 --> 00:52:32,462
Anyway, there were like...

530
00:52:32,462 --> 00:52:39,222
First of all, there was one more person which was a huge difference in our interaction.

531
00:52:40,202 --> 00:52:45,542
And then there was Harmony coming from him on the vibraphone.

532
00:52:45,542 --> 00:52:53,462
And it was just super interesting to see how our music changed.

533
00:52:54,522 --> 00:52:57,282
I loved it, but yeah.

534
00:52:57,282 --> 00:53:02,714
And we are in a kind of an interesting spot in the project now, I feel like, because

535
00:53:03,698 --> 00:53:07,740
Now we have been doing this for some years.

536
00:53:08,221 --> 00:53:14,824
think it's in February, we have our fifth anniversary for the very first gig we did as a
duo.

537
00:53:15,545 --> 00:53:29,912
And I have kind of forced myself that I have developed the setup a little bit in the
beginning, like when I added the second Mac and so on.

538
00:53:30,273 --> 00:53:32,774
But other than that, I...

539
00:53:34,847 --> 00:53:39,358
tried to really stick with the same setup.

540
00:53:39,358 --> 00:53:42,033
So I didn't change the live set or anything.

541
00:53:42,033 --> 00:53:46,236
And I was like, how much can I get out of the same thing?

542
00:53:46,277 --> 00:54:02,382
Because I can see many things that I could kind of pre-set up that would make it very easy
to make something that would probably like impress people or like, yeah.

543
00:54:02,382 --> 00:54:09,164
then we got this huge complex sound that moved in a space like this and all of this if I
had prepared it beforehand.

544
00:54:09,685 --> 00:54:16,908
But I thought that it was an interesting angle to like not do that and not take the easy
route in a way.

545
00:54:16,968 --> 00:54:21,970
And just like, okay, if we just stick with the same instrument now, what can we do?

546
00:54:22,270 --> 00:54:30,593
And in some sense, I feel a little bit like now that we made the record as well and played
many concerts.

547
00:54:30,593 --> 00:54:32,238
That was kind of a spot.

548
00:54:32,238 --> 00:54:44,925
to also make a choice if we want to stick on just the same path or if we want to move in a
different direction or like expand or push something.

549
00:54:44,925 --> 00:54:52,909
So I could, for example, see like I have a few instruments that is like all made in Max
that are very like specific.

550
00:54:52,909 --> 00:54:59,683
Like there is a drum synthesizer that I made that is very like tuned to Janne's input and
so on.

551
00:54:59,683 --> 00:55:02,134
And I could see, for example, making

552
00:55:02,259 --> 00:55:09,569
more instruments that is like this instrument is like already tuned to this project.

553
00:55:09,569 --> 00:55:20,855
You can still go many directions and so on but but the core is kind of tuned to it because
now it's sort of like I'm using this other instrument that I'm almost like kind of hacking

554
00:55:20,855 --> 00:55:24,857
or like forcing to to adapt to the other step dance.

555
00:55:24,857 --> 00:55:28,828
So that could could be a direction for me at least to go in for example.

556
00:55:30,124 --> 00:55:33,626
I guess that happens with projects, right?

557
00:55:33,626 --> 00:55:45,261
Like you create something and you're learning it and experimenting it, even if it's a kind
of just a group of an ensemble of players.

558
00:55:45,441 --> 00:55:49,523
And then you get maybe like some kind of product, like an album.

559
00:55:49,523 --> 00:55:52,605
And then you kind of say, okay, now what?

560
00:55:52,605 --> 00:55:54,705
Do we keep exploring this?

561
00:55:54,705 --> 00:56:00,048
Cause there is kind of always infinite things to explore, but do we want to shake it up a
little?

562
00:56:00,048 --> 00:56:05,770
they want to go in a slightly different direction and see where it goes.

563
00:56:07,151 --> 00:56:19,176
It's very interesting too what you guys say about maybe trying to recreate some of the
music because sometimes when you again like I can really only speak I can't speak to this

564
00:56:19,176 --> 00:56:25,408
dimension of like otherworldly instruments you guys are using but

565
00:56:25,718 --> 00:56:31,441
When you play with people, you might start jamming and you kind of feeling things out and
you get a sound.

566
00:56:31,441 --> 00:56:42,488
then when you start trying to recreate those, it might put you into more of a routine and
what you do, but you also get a lot of freedom.

567
00:56:42,488 --> 00:56:50,463
now how you do that, there's a lot of changes to what, how am going to perform this part
now?

568
00:56:50,463 --> 00:56:52,653
Now I'm going to really refine that.

569
00:56:54,040 --> 00:57:05,440
kind of exciting because you guys are, I imagine there aren't too many counterparts
musically to people that are doing things like this.

570
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:12,396
So you have a lot of options, a lot of freedom, lot of space to explore.

571
00:57:14,139 --> 00:57:14,709
That's true.

572
00:57:14,709 --> 00:57:29,105
And then it kind of, then you have to also choose where in this like a circle of
development you want to be.

573
00:57:29,105 --> 00:57:38,288
And if you want to move and so on, like if you imagine something like, like a circle,
circle of life.

574
00:57:38,909 --> 00:57:41,826
So you have like in the beginning you have like a

575
00:57:41,826 --> 00:57:58,350
some academic that figure out this math equation and then there's this programmer that
turns it into like a sound product that they upload on github and then there's this noise

576
00:57:58,350 --> 00:58:10,360
musician that experiments with it in a venue for like four people and then you end up with
like a more kind of commercial plug-in product maybe and

577
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:13,151
put into a mainstream DAW.

578
00:58:13,192 --> 00:58:17,935
And then there are like the experimental people trying it out and then it moves on.

579
00:58:17,935 --> 00:58:25,050
Then you get like super commercial pop music in the end that makes a lot of money.

580
00:58:25,050 --> 00:58:36,188
And then that money gets kind of fueled via tax, kind of back to funding grants for the
academic and the experimental artists again.

581
00:58:36,188 --> 00:58:38,989
And then it keeps on like going like this.

582
00:58:39,090 --> 00:58:40,110
And then

583
00:58:40,194 --> 00:58:43,656
You can choose where in this do I want to be?

584
00:58:43,656 --> 00:58:48,489
Do I want to be in this super experimental space?

585
00:58:48,489 --> 00:58:58,144
Do I want to be in this middle point where it's like, actually now we are implementing
some of these techniques, but it's clearly music, or do you want to be in this more

586
00:58:58,144 --> 00:59:01,585
polished, or do you want to move back and forth and so on?

587
00:59:02,286 --> 00:59:09,670
There is also another type of circle, I guess, if you think about our gigs.

588
00:59:09,834 --> 00:59:14,397
We've been performing for...

589
00:59:14,894 --> 00:59:24,383
Well, mostly it's sort of in a music situation, music festival situation, but sometimes
it's more like a party situation.

590
00:59:24,383 --> 00:59:35,670
Like the festival opening has just happened and then we're playing right after the opening
and people are maybe already a bit happy and chatty and...

591
00:59:35,936 --> 00:59:51,452
And then as you might have heard on the album, like on one track, people are really
shouting and enjoying the music and really with us, like almost dancing themselves.

592
00:59:51,533 --> 00:59:55,274
And then other concerts, people are really like the release concert.

593
00:59:55,274 --> 00:59:59,036
just had people neatly sitting on their seats.

594
00:59:59,376 --> 01:00:01,287
I think they'd left their beer outside.

595
01:00:01,287 --> 01:00:02,737
I'm not sure.

596
01:00:05,100 --> 01:00:08,471
This music has the potential of being really...

597
01:00:09,652 --> 01:00:20,277
If I keep my groove more steady and if we have a focus on a certain type of build-up, then
it can sort of become a techno party almost.

598
01:00:20,857 --> 01:00:32,282
And that's very different from those sessions where it's more like a soundscape or a movie
or something.

599
01:00:32,970 --> 01:00:36,092
very uneven and glitchy.

600
01:00:37,433 --> 01:00:52,541
So we can also think, let's do a year of party music and try to play as late as possible
in any club and make people dance with what we do.

601
01:00:52,541 --> 01:00:57,804
And then I would have to change my tap dance a little bit and you know, that would be...

602
01:00:57,804 --> 01:01:01,826
But we can also think more like, we wanna...

603
01:01:01,934 --> 01:01:04,776
play like, how do you call that?

604
01:01:05,717 --> 01:01:16,984
Like super long, like five hour sets at some museum and it just keeps going and people
enter and exit and we just keep going.

605
01:01:16,984 --> 01:01:29,463
And we've also had concerts where contemporary dancers have moved into our space and away
again and have suddenly like been a part of our expression.

606
01:01:29,463 --> 01:01:31,008
And yeah, so.

607
01:01:31,008 --> 01:01:39,680
So there's so many directions and some of those directions would probably earn us more
money and others maybe not so much.

608
01:01:40,561 --> 01:01:42,431
But it's all so much fun.

609
01:01:42,431 --> 01:01:52,044
So it's not like we only like the weirdest art or high art or low art.

610
01:01:52,484 --> 01:01:55,485
That's not a problem.

611
01:01:55,525 --> 01:02:00,066
The problem is that there's not enough time to do all of it.

612
01:02:02,266 --> 01:02:06,934
So, but yeah, we enjoy it.

613
01:02:10,210 --> 01:02:21,175
Yeah, you can really picture it at a lot of places like art installation, we're serious
sitting down watching or, yeah, now we're having a party and we're dancing.

614
01:02:21,175 --> 01:02:28,967
You guys are, it can be very interactive even I'm sure where people are dancing along with
you.

615
01:02:30,710 --> 01:02:35,490
It's really cool that you have that range in what you guys do.

616
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:46,838
Yeah, and it's also like in all of these settings, it's like you have different ways in
for people as well.

617
01:02:46,838 --> 01:02:55,203
Like some people are way into electronic music, so they're like, they connect with the
sounds first.

618
01:02:56,545 --> 01:03:04,650
And some people are very into the technical aspect and they start thinking about like how
the system works and from like a tech angle.

619
01:03:04,706 --> 01:03:15,050
And then I have some people who are either more into dance or just like this connection
between us or maybe they have never seen tap dance before.

620
01:03:15,050 --> 01:03:17,551
So that's the angle in.

621
01:03:17,631 --> 01:03:26,014
And then it's like the door is open and all of a sudden they're like the gig is done and
they enjoyed it a lot.

622
01:03:26,615 --> 01:03:32,491
And they would maybe like, if you just like talked about it, they would maybe never put on
this kind of music or anything, but.

623
01:03:32,491 --> 01:03:37,214
They found a way in and then they enjoyed it when they were there.

624
01:03:38,574 --> 01:03:41,681
You give people a lot of angles to appreciate it.

625
01:03:41,772 --> 01:03:55,428
Yeah, but it's also what you're saying is it's hard to have people sort of understand what
we're doing by just talking about it without them seeing it.

626
01:03:55,428 --> 01:03:56,658
Yeah, that's frustrating.

627
01:03:56,658 --> 01:04:09,294
And it's a story of my life because tap dance has certain connotations, certain stigma to
it.

628
01:04:10,196 --> 01:04:11,797
a lot of history.

629
01:04:11,797 --> 01:04:25,436
And I guess in the US it's more common, of course, I mean, more people have seen it or
have had a chance maybe to see it live.

630
01:04:25,897 --> 01:04:36,334
But in Europe or in Norway, it's nobody has seen like I can, I can sort of assume that any
audience sees it for the first time.

631
01:04:36,334 --> 01:04:38,825
And that's good.

632
01:04:38,825 --> 01:04:40,166
But it's also

633
01:04:42,804 --> 01:04:44,244
It's not necessarily bad.

634
01:04:44,244 --> 01:04:50,408
If they're already there to see it, then they see what we're doing and then we're already
on one page in a way.

635
01:04:50,408 --> 01:04:58,283
But when I'm trying to tell people what I'm doing as my profession, that's one discussion.

636
01:04:58,283 --> 01:05:08,500
And also explaining about A and what we do, people get curious about tap dance,
electronics.

637
01:05:10,228 --> 01:05:19,983
it triggers something in people, but they will almost always assume that they won't like
it.

638
01:05:20,504 --> 01:05:32,871
Many times actually at concerts, like after the concert, people come up to us and it's
like, yeah, I came here just because of my friend or because you have been like bugging me

639
01:05:32,871 --> 01:05:39,454
about this for like four concerts now and I never showed up and I didn't think I would
like it and I loved it.

640
01:05:39,992 --> 01:05:42,465
But I couldn't imagine it before.

641
01:05:42,507 --> 01:05:46,755
Yeah, it's hard to imagine, I guess.

642
01:05:46,755 --> 01:05:50,480
To imagine the tap dance.

643
01:05:51,177 --> 01:05:55,350
anyone that knows tap dancing has seen it before.

644
01:05:55,871 --> 01:05:57,852
You don't see it in this world.

645
01:05:58,013 --> 01:05:59,994
You don't see it in this kind of music.

646
01:05:59,994 --> 01:06:08,000
I think showtune-y kind of musical type of stuff.

647
01:06:08,721 --> 01:06:12,583
And of like a bygone era, really.

648
01:06:12,964 --> 01:06:16,136
But this is really cool to see it brought.

649
01:06:17,096 --> 01:06:18,951
so far into the future.

650
01:06:19,302 --> 01:06:27,159
I have to disclaim right away though that it's not bygone and it's really alive.

651
01:06:27,159 --> 01:06:30,652
You just don't...

652
01:06:30,652 --> 01:06:31,513
haven't...

653
01:06:31,513 --> 01:06:33,314
People haven't seen it.

654
01:06:34,055 --> 01:06:41,321
There's so much great tap dancing in all kinds of genres.

655
01:06:41,942 --> 01:06:47,065
Maybe there's not so much in electronic music yet, but there's...

656
01:06:47,608 --> 01:06:57,262
course a lot of jazz music that has tap dance in it or tap dancers that work with jazz
musicians etc.

657
01:06:59,083 --> 01:07:15,749
it just has to come, it has to get some more exposure but it's really happening and
there's some amazing tap dancers especially in the US but also in Europe hidden in every

658
01:07:15,749 --> 01:07:17,780
city at least one.

659
01:07:18,995 --> 01:07:27,728
And we know each other and I'm inspired by my fellow TAP colleagues all over the world.

660
01:07:27,728 --> 01:07:30,619
Yeah, there's great stuff.

661
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:34,041
And everybody keeps saying, no, it's not dead.

662
01:07:34,041 --> 01:07:36,242
It's actually very much alive.

663
01:07:38,823 --> 01:07:45,646
But yeah, it's hidden a little bit for the...

664
01:07:46,710 --> 01:07:48,930
regular public in a way.

665
01:07:48,930 --> 01:07:49,850
Right.

666
01:07:51,192 --> 01:08:05,180
Now, when you're improvising on this, of, all just in general in your music, mean, it's
usually something musicians, whether they consciously say it or not, there's some sort of

667
01:08:05,180 --> 01:08:07,523
agreement on certain things.

668
01:08:07,523 --> 01:08:11,626
It might be the tempo, it might be the beat, the chords, the key.

669
01:08:12,268 --> 01:08:22,284
that serves sort of as these safeguards so that it's not just pure chaos and it doesn't
completely fall apart at any given moment.

670
01:08:22,525 --> 01:08:30,069
How do you guys manage to do that with what you do when it is so experimental and...

671
01:08:30,069 --> 01:08:34,231
you might not really know exactly what you're going to get as you're going into it.

672
01:08:34,231 --> 01:08:49,056
Do you have things, I don't know where it would be, even if it's like physical cues or
anything, do you ways to make sure it doesn't just totally explode in front of you?

673
01:08:51,197 --> 01:08:52,917
All right, that's exciting.

674
01:08:53,030 --> 01:09:01,890
I think it's like we get a little bit of a shared language by doing it many times.

675
01:09:01,890 --> 01:09:03,810
So that's one thing.

676
01:09:04,010 --> 01:09:17,890
then the other thing is like, if you are, let's say you meet up with a fellow electronic
position, as you talked about earlier, and it's like, who is doing that sound?

677
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:19,330
whoops, it was me.

678
01:09:19,956 --> 01:09:34,572
here this is not the case because okay maybe I don't know if I'm triggering this now or
not but it's like Janne's like original sound is very defined so everything that is not a

679
01:09:34,572 --> 01:09:49,918
tap sound is coming out of the computer so we know that and this also means that it's
maybe more my responsibility that there aren't

680
01:09:50,254 --> 01:09:53,015
too many clashing elements.

681
01:09:53,196 --> 01:10:10,468
So if I feel like there is too much going on or we get like insecure, like maybe you get
nervous or you're super tired or something, then if I manage, then always the solution is

682
01:10:10,468 --> 01:10:12,689
to start stripping back layers.

683
01:10:12,809 --> 01:10:20,174
And then it's like maybe we're stuck with just one and maybe this is like connected or
it's just

684
01:10:20,190 --> 01:10:25,214
separate one, but then we like bring it down and we just work with this one thing.

685
01:10:25,214 --> 01:10:31,819
I think that's our biggest escape rope kind of.

686
01:10:31,820 --> 01:10:36,183
other than that, we don't agree on anything.

687
01:10:36,183 --> 01:10:40,897
Like sometimes it's like, what should we do now?

688
01:10:40,897 --> 01:10:43,279
And Janne says like, let's do a pretty one.

689
01:10:43,279 --> 01:10:45,210
And then that's where we start.

690
01:10:45,331 --> 01:10:48,150
And then after five minutes, it's no longer a pretty one.

691
01:10:48,150 --> 01:10:49,512
Yeah.

692
01:10:49,996 --> 01:10:50,997
Right.

693
01:10:51,546 --> 01:10:55,526
We do almost always agree on the time.

694
01:10:56,906 --> 01:11:00,006
We say let's do 10 minutes, let's do 12.

695
01:11:00,006 --> 01:11:03,526
It's usually 10, 20, 40 or 60.

696
01:11:03,906 --> 01:11:12,426
And we have a clock because I really lose track of time sometimes.

697
01:11:13,386 --> 01:11:18,426
And this is really good to because

698
01:11:19,794 --> 01:11:26,274
Depending on the setting, I can assume that I will work a lot.

699
01:11:26,574 --> 01:11:28,634
I will not leave Kristoffer.

700
01:11:28,634 --> 01:11:31,734
I can leave him alone a little bit and he can do a solo.

701
01:11:31,734 --> 01:11:33,894
I can step off the board.

702
01:11:33,894 --> 01:11:40,064
I can be quiet for up to, I don't know, maybe three minutes even, which would feel very
long.

703
01:11:40,064 --> 01:11:41,044
But I can do that.

704
01:11:41,044 --> 01:11:47,834
That's a part of things that we agree on, that we can leave each other alone.

705
01:11:49,064 --> 01:11:53,539
And we're just two people.

706
01:11:53,539 --> 01:11:55,501
it's also...

707
01:11:58,318 --> 01:12:10,018
I mean, there's a lot of sound, there's only one person to deal with, which is much easier
than if we would be a quartet or more people.

708
01:12:13,102 --> 01:12:14,845
What was I thinking about?

709
01:12:16,918 --> 01:12:19,479
Yeah, we know our instruments quite well.

710
01:12:20,621 --> 01:12:32,268
I mean, I have like a hundred different things I can do, but Christopher has heard all of
it at least five times.

711
01:12:32,288 --> 01:12:39,393
We recognize each other's vocabulary, even though it's changing.

712
01:12:41,995 --> 01:12:46,978
It's, how do you say, familiar.

713
01:12:47,775 --> 01:12:55,919
And we like the sounds, so you accept it and you work with it.

714
01:12:57,360 --> 01:13:01,512
We do listen back always, or as much as we can if we have time.

715
01:13:01,512 --> 01:13:07,906
If we've done a little session of 20 minutes, we try to put it on right away and listen to
it.

716
01:13:07,906 --> 01:13:10,127
And then we do talk about it.

717
01:13:10,227 --> 01:13:16,129
We will be like, this part could have lasted longer or...

718
01:13:16,129 --> 01:13:18,829
Here I wanted to build it up, but you were pulling back.

719
01:13:18,829 --> 01:13:19,630
Okay, okay.

720
01:13:19,630 --> 01:13:37,233
then it's not that it's not that we're making any deals for the next time, but we're just
reflecting out loud to sort of confirm our strategies and to be like, yeah, I can, I can

721
01:13:37,233 --> 01:13:37,873
leave you alone.

722
01:13:37,873 --> 01:13:38,943
You can deal with that.

723
01:13:38,943 --> 01:13:39,693
Yes, it's fine.

724
01:13:39,693 --> 01:13:40,763
I can also deal with it.

725
01:13:40,763 --> 01:13:41,073
Yes.

726
01:13:41,073 --> 01:13:44,654
Or some things have a limit like,

727
01:13:45,450 --> 01:13:57,156
If I've started some kind of fast beat and I would like to keep it going for five minutes,
but I just physically can't, like I will get a cramp.

728
01:13:57,237 --> 01:14:05,101
And then I wish musically that I would have kept it going, but I just can't do it.

729
01:14:05,642 --> 01:14:10,424
And then, you know, we don't look at each other at all, actually.

730
01:14:10,424 --> 01:14:13,452
And as a tap dancer, I am used to...

731
01:14:13,452 --> 01:14:20,947
working with musicians that take a lot of information visually, that look at my feet to
see.

732
01:14:21,167 --> 01:14:30,214
And here now she's hitting on, then I'm gonna like who use my movement as a sort of a hint
of what's gonna happen.

733
01:14:30,214 --> 01:14:32,585
But Christopher doesn't look at all.

734
01:14:32,585 --> 01:14:36,838
To look at this little Arduino screen, know?

735
01:14:36,838 --> 01:14:37,799
Yeah.

736
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:40,651
And that's, guess, this other aspect.

737
01:14:40,651 --> 01:14:42,124
I mean, I've said it, but

738
01:14:42,124 --> 01:14:48,638
just to underline it, when we've played for, we've had many concerts that last for an
hour.

739
01:14:48,638 --> 01:14:54,701
And then I have like, I've done a little, I've done a 60 minute sprint in a way.

740
01:14:55,242 --> 01:15:01,405
And my, I'm totally like, I've exhausted myself.

741
01:15:01,405 --> 01:15:09,690
And of course he's also exhausted, but he's been turning knobs, you know, and looking
down.

742
01:15:09,690 --> 01:15:10,490
So.

743
01:15:10,538 --> 01:15:18,404
So it's a very different material in a way or starting point.

744
01:15:19,926 --> 01:15:29,474
then just one more thing, especially if I usually have a little board, a small, you know,
one by one meter or something.

745
01:15:29,474 --> 01:15:39,061
And if I step off of it, this you sometimes see in the corner of your eye that I'm going
away from the contact mic.

746
01:15:39,061 --> 01:15:40,238
And that tells

747
01:15:40,238 --> 01:15:41,538
him something.

748
01:15:42,119 --> 01:15:44,119
It's not always clear what.

749
01:15:44,979 --> 01:15:57,433
It doesn't, you know, it just means that I'm leaving the effects now and that he can then
change everything or he can keep it as it is and do a solo.

750
01:15:57,433 --> 01:16:03,105
I can come back and it can still be the same or I can come back and it can be completely
different.

751
01:16:03,925 --> 01:16:08,046
But this is like one of the crossroads that I can.

752
01:16:08,474 --> 01:16:12,476
show in a way that's like a visual cue sort of.

753
01:16:12,977 --> 01:16:13,917
Yeah.

754
01:16:14,678 --> 01:16:31,782
And for me, when I play it's one, I actually don't want much visual stimulation in a way,
because it's almost like, you know, how the thing sounds better in the dark when you close

755
01:16:31,782 --> 01:16:34,932
your eyes and so on, the music sounds more vivid and everything.

756
01:16:34,932 --> 01:16:37,454
So it's, it's a lot about like, okay, I

757
01:16:37,454 --> 01:16:42,134
cut off this sense in a way, then I have more headroom for the other stuff.

758
01:16:42,134 --> 01:16:53,594
I have to think about both this technical thing and then I have to kind of visualize the
whole setup like, now she's triggering this and this and this, but of course it's going

759
01:16:53,594 --> 01:16:57,734
through that chain, so it won't make a sound unless I choose this thing.

760
01:16:57,734 --> 01:16:59,734
Like I have to keep that in mind.

761
01:16:59,734 --> 01:17:03,714
And then it's about listening to the result and so on.

762
01:17:03,714 --> 01:17:07,252
And like that's kind of enough.

763
01:17:07,446 --> 01:17:09,547
then I can't take in anymore.

764
01:17:10,408 --> 01:17:17,713
So when we play, for the most part, I just have to listen to Janna.

765
01:17:17,894 --> 01:17:25,629
But then it's like we have played so many times and I guess it's also a little bit about
just like chemistry.

766
01:17:25,629 --> 01:17:35,796
It's like some people you can say hello and then all of a sudden it's like three hours
have gone because you never stopped talking and...

767
01:17:36,298 --> 01:17:44,244
with someone else, it's like you really have to push the conversation and maybe there are
some awkward silences and so on.

768
01:17:45,506 --> 01:17:56,595
So here is like, feel when we are playing everything is just like kind of working and then
when we're not playing the conversation is just flowing, then we're talking.

769
01:17:56,595 --> 01:18:04,876
So it's like always just in process and flowing and in some sense it's quite easy.

770
01:18:04,876 --> 01:18:12,588
Like there are some challenges and we have to work and everything, but it's not like we
get stuck so much, I guess.

771
01:18:13,368 --> 01:18:14,238
Right.

772
01:18:14,439 --> 01:18:16,101
That's funny what you say.

773
01:18:18,144 --> 01:18:19,104
Right.

774
01:18:19,105 --> 01:18:23,309
So much of playing with other people is listening to what they're doing.

775
01:18:25,022 --> 01:18:32,208
You remind me of funny things that happen in a band even when you're tapping all this time
and you're turning, right?

776
01:18:32,208 --> 01:18:35,190
Like sure, there's a lot of mental energy that goes with that.

777
01:18:35,190 --> 01:18:40,923
There are certain things I, in my band, when we play, my drummer will be like, okay, here
we go.

778
01:18:40,923 --> 01:18:42,736
Cause his beats like do do da do do da.

779
01:18:42,736 --> 01:18:47,970
It's like constant, but I'm just playing like bong, big one big chord.

780
01:18:47,970 --> 01:18:50,882
Cause just everything else fills out.

781
01:18:51,206 --> 01:19:03,738
It's like yeah, this is a real tough one for you, but for me, it's actually I don't do
much You know, it's not quite as hard but that process of yeah sure No, no

782
01:19:04,110 --> 01:19:10,434
I was just going to say the process of reflecting on what you've heard, even if it's,
we're not going to do this again.

783
01:19:10,434 --> 01:19:12,234
get the sense of like, I see.

784
01:19:12,234 --> 01:19:16,918
So you were trying to develop that, you know, that's the cool thing we can do in the
future.

785
01:19:16,918 --> 01:19:18,610
It's, it's so valuable.

786
01:19:18,610 --> 01:19:25,253
It kind of surprises me when, people don't do that with the people they play music with.

787
01:19:25,253 --> 01:19:27,135
Like you don't listen to it, you don't talk about it.

788
01:19:27,135 --> 01:19:29,518
Like, how do you know if it was working?

789
01:19:29,518 --> 01:19:33,026
because I find that to be almost where the growth happens.

790
01:19:33,026 --> 01:19:36,572
Not even so much the actual performing, but the discussion.

791
01:19:36,696 --> 01:19:52,739
But I must say that what I said in the beginning, think it's so crazy to me how I
experienced the total of our music when I'm not dancing and just listening to it.

792
01:19:52,918 --> 01:19:56,843
It's like, don't know how to explain it.

793
01:19:56,843 --> 01:19:59,004
I almost can't recognize it.

794
01:19:59,445 --> 01:20:02,978
So when we listen back, I really discover it again.

795
01:20:02,978 --> 01:20:05,189
It's like, this happened.

796
01:20:05,189 --> 01:20:06,102
Is that my...

797
01:20:06,102 --> 01:20:07,103
Am I doing?

798
01:20:07,103 --> 01:20:07,573
Is this?

799
01:20:07,573 --> 01:20:08,294
Are you doing?

800
01:20:08,294 --> 01:20:13,988
And it's not that I wasn't present when we were making the music.

801
01:20:13,988 --> 01:20:20,394
It's just, I don't know, sitting still and listening to it as its own package.

802
01:20:21,835 --> 01:20:26,299
It's really different and I enjoy it a lot.

803
01:20:26,299 --> 01:20:30,943
I hate to watch myself on the video dancing.

804
01:20:31,464 --> 01:20:34,385
I don't want to, like, I don't want to...

805
01:20:35,136 --> 01:20:37,427
analyze myself.

806
01:20:37,487 --> 01:20:41,770
But if I can just listen to the music, it's sort of, it's not even me or something.

807
01:20:41,770 --> 01:20:47,252
And it's own thing.

808
01:20:47,433 --> 01:20:49,574
And I even enjoy it.

809
01:20:49,814 --> 01:20:51,995
then it's no problem taking the time for it.

810
01:20:51,995 --> 01:21:01,520
Like I still haven't watched the video of this huge performance I did two months ago,
because I don't want to see that too, but also the other one.

811
01:21:01,520 --> 01:21:04,782
I just don't want to like, give me a break.

812
01:21:04,978 --> 01:21:15,506
But to listen to our music is, I don't know, this maybe sounds like I'm bragging, but it's
a new experience.

813
01:21:15,506 --> 01:21:19,109
I also play in acoustic bands, which I love.

814
01:21:19,229 --> 01:21:25,834
And then when we do concerts, I feel like I know more about, like I'm more aware of the...

815
01:21:27,512 --> 01:21:28,582
total.

816
01:21:28,843 --> 01:21:33,728
And then now it sounds like I'm not aware of the total when we're working, which is not
true.

817
01:21:33,728 --> 01:21:40,974
But there's something different about the acoustic projects and this one.

818
01:21:40,974 --> 01:21:54,156
But I just wanted to also say that when we reflect and when we talk about, like we never
say, I mean, we could say, let's do a warm up and that's some kind of information.

819
01:21:54,815 --> 01:21:59,128
Or let's do a nice one because the previous one was so sad or whatever.

820
01:21:59,128 --> 01:22:05,403
We can have one little word, but we will never plan what it's going to be.

821
01:22:06,414 --> 01:22:09,106
We will just set the time and go.

822
01:22:09,106 --> 01:22:10,827
That's our preparation.

823
01:22:11,208 --> 01:22:19,025
But then after we talk a lot, and then when we are reflecting, we never criticize each
other.

824
01:22:19,025 --> 01:22:21,256
ourself.

825
01:22:21,397 --> 01:22:23,468
We will be like, I should have...

826
01:22:23,468 --> 01:22:28,662
I wish I had done a different choice or I couldn't sustain this thing I was aiming for.

827
01:22:28,662 --> 01:22:36,117
We will be critical and admit or wish for better or whatever.

828
01:22:36,117 --> 01:22:45,273
But I will never say like, I wish you were a bit faster on the knobs, Christoph Ferguson
said.

829
01:22:45,273 --> 01:22:50,717
Or he would never tell me that I should have been more tight or whatever.

830
01:22:52,782 --> 01:22:54,622
not the way we speak.

831
01:22:54,642 --> 01:23:00,762
Of course, we could be talking like that, it wouldn't, but I'm very glad we are not.

832
01:23:01,302 --> 01:23:20,506
I think this contributes to this feeling of trust and that you can take risks and that you
never, I never feel like I have to be ashamed or embarrassed for anything I'm doing.

833
01:23:21,066 --> 01:23:28,248
So it gives more freedom to make choices and also more like headspace to make choices.

834
01:23:31,269 --> 01:23:50,414
yeah, it's a, this is not, I improvise a lot and in many situations I have to spend some
time while on stage to establish trust or to establish my own confidence because it's not.

835
01:23:50,444 --> 01:23:54,527
the room is shaky or the vibe is stressed or whatever.

836
01:23:54,527 --> 01:23:56,659
And this we don't have.

837
01:23:58,240 --> 01:24:11,291
And once we performed at a bigger venue in a bigger situation, then of course sometimes we
are under pressure and that has an effect on both of us.

838
01:24:11,291 --> 01:24:12,842
But we don't do this to each other.

839
01:24:12,842 --> 01:24:20,478
And that's a good starting point for improvisation.

840
01:24:21,526 --> 01:24:34,866
I also wanted to add that usually how I describe this difference between when you're
playing and when you're listening to the recording after is that when you are performing

841
01:24:34,866 --> 01:24:41,501
and improvising, you are experiencing the feeling of doing it.

842
01:24:41,501 --> 01:24:48,426
But when you're just listening, then you are experiencing kind of the result and you're

843
01:24:49,090 --> 01:24:53,133
you have a very different way into it.

844
01:24:53,133 --> 01:24:56,394
And that's why I think it's super, super important.

845
01:24:58,196 --> 01:25:01,838
I try to record every concert I do at least.

846
01:25:02,479 --> 01:25:14,766
And for me, it's like almost every time a positive thing because either I get confirmed
that like I managed to do the thing I tried to do.

847
01:25:15,794 --> 01:25:28,488
And often if you like you do one f*** up and then you like really get in your head about
it and then if you're like this concert I wasn't very good and then I listened to the

848
01:25:28,488 --> 01:25:42,342
recording it's like actually this only lasted for like half a second and it wasn't even as
bad as I thought but even if it would have been as bad as I thought like this was nothing

849
01:25:42,342 --> 01:25:44,222
in the the whole of it.

850
01:25:44,524 --> 01:25:49,416
But when I was there, then, now my confidence drops.

851
01:25:49,416 --> 01:25:54,298
And like this thing that I'm judging, like my own playing, it's like, it doesn't feel as
good.

852
01:25:54,298 --> 01:25:59,120
But actually it's like kind of like your instincts take over and still manage to play
nice.

853
01:25:59,120 --> 01:26:04,012
So it's actually a really good experience for me to listen to these recordings.

854
01:26:04,844 --> 01:26:05,554
Hmm.

855
01:26:05,554 --> 01:26:06,895
That's a great point.

856
01:26:06,895 --> 01:26:09,316
Cause in your head, right?

857
01:26:09,316 --> 01:26:13,738
Everything can be, the world is collapsing, you know?

858
01:26:13,738 --> 01:26:16,730
And it's nice to hear it and hear the proof that no, it didn't.

859
01:26:16,730 --> 01:26:18,600
It really wasn't so bad.

860
01:26:18,600 --> 01:26:21,772
So that the next time it happens, you roll with it a little bit better.

861
01:26:21,772 --> 01:26:25,594
And cause that stuff happens, that's part of the performance.

862
01:26:25,594 --> 01:26:27,144
That's part of live music.

863
01:26:27,144 --> 01:26:30,576
It's sometimes it's the fun stuff even.

864
01:26:30,576 --> 01:26:34,778
It's kind of cool that when we play in a band and we sped

865
01:26:34,778 --> 01:26:40,004
up in the chorus that was exciting, know, whereas you might.

866
01:26:40,041 --> 01:26:41,692
for electronic music.

867
01:26:41,793 --> 01:26:44,794
I always think about this.

868
01:26:45,154 --> 01:26:59,302
There are so many videos on YouTube from this like superstar EDM producers, who of course,
like their performance is only like a DJ set and it's not really a DJ set, DJ set.

869
01:26:59,302 --> 01:27:03,404
Sometimes it's almost just like a playback set in a way.

870
01:27:05,306 --> 01:27:06,316
And then...

871
01:27:06,478 --> 01:27:15,711
There are all these videos of when the CDJ crashes and it's like, boom, and it starts
skipping forever.

872
01:27:15,711 --> 01:27:26,814
Like people don't use CDs anymore, but the CDJ, like the Pioneer ones, so when it crashes
and like comes all this weird noises on and there is this like big stadium of people and

873
01:27:26,814 --> 01:27:28,114
they're just going crazy.

874
01:27:28,114 --> 01:27:32,505
Like they're loving it and everyone is filming it just like woo.

875
01:27:32,505 --> 01:27:35,566
And then the DJ maybe it's like dramatically,

876
01:27:35,746 --> 01:27:38,348
this shitty equipment and turn it to the side.

877
01:27:38,348 --> 01:27:47,144
And there's a state technician that brings out another like four thousand dollar machine
like, okay, here you go.

878
01:27:47,144 --> 01:27:48,616
Okay, now we can do it again.

879
01:27:48,616 --> 01:27:54,890
Because like they realized that there is some humanity happening and there is something
happening right now.

880
01:27:54,890 --> 01:27:57,272
And like this is not going to happen tomorrow.

881
01:27:57,272 --> 01:28:01,184
Like we are actually in a in a special moment right now.

882
01:28:01,745 --> 01:28:02,808
So I think that

883
01:28:02,808 --> 01:28:12,632
when you are able to bring some of these like human things in some way to electronic music
performance is really, really valuable.

884
01:28:12,632 --> 01:28:20,672
And I think like even now with everything being so like perfect and AI and everything.

885
01:28:21,206 --> 01:28:22,106
Mm-hmm.

886
01:28:22,267 --> 01:28:23,517
Yeah, I think we crave that.

887
01:28:23,517 --> 01:28:27,689
We want to know that I was at that show when this happened.

888
01:28:27,769 --> 01:28:33,432
I was there when that, instead of like, I was at one of the shows where this happened
every time.

889
01:28:33,432 --> 01:28:37,698
So yeah, not a big moment, but when you experience it.

890
01:28:37,698 --> 01:28:40,658
the contact mic off of the stage.

891
01:28:40,658 --> 01:28:42,178
That's true.

892
01:28:42,458 --> 01:28:50,578
By accident, I kicked it and it flew away and then I to run and get it and I kept on
playing.

893
01:28:51,478 --> 01:28:55,058
was a very spectacular moment.

894
01:28:55,478 --> 01:28:56,218
was.

895
01:28:56,218 --> 01:29:03,221
And she was also triggering this big like 909 style kick drum sound from it.

896
01:29:03,221 --> 01:29:04,203
Yeah.

897
01:29:05,246 --> 01:29:06,886
It was really funny.

898
01:29:06,907 --> 01:29:18,200
But actually, like, of course, this was kind of a mistake and whatever, often in our
concerts, sometimes we really try to go with this, like, and you can you can sense this

899
01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:24,191
shift sometimes that like, okay, now it's like now there is a challenge here.

900
01:29:24,191 --> 01:29:34,474
I think about this one clip that we have, where we play actually the stage below our
studio here.

901
01:29:35,974 --> 01:29:48,341
Janne is triggering this synth sound and it has like reverb on it and it sounds like very
full and very nice and then I just like gradually I take away all the elements and I take

902
01:29:48,341 --> 01:30:03,140
away the reverb and I make the sound very short so like now there is like no help in a way
there is no like filling out and it's just like and it's like she stops and it's like all

903
01:30:03,140 --> 01:30:04,170
quiet

904
01:30:04,438 --> 01:30:08,511
And you really like people start smiling and they're like really.

905
01:30:08,511 --> 01:30:11,142
And then the other is like, okay, here we go.

906
01:30:11,823 --> 01:30:15,865
And the sound is just like following and it's like so snappy and everything.

907
01:30:15,865 --> 01:30:20,818
But then you can, then you really get this like, okay, now actually we understand
everything.

908
01:30:20,818 --> 01:30:22,909
Now it's like very one-to-one.

909
01:30:23,190 --> 01:30:26,132
And then it's like, okay, now we're going to float this space again.

910
01:30:26,132 --> 01:30:29,774
But like, there are a few of these moments where it's like, you really.

911
01:30:30,018 --> 01:30:35,200
You get a sense that people, they tune into some of these things.

912
01:30:35,340 --> 01:30:36,681
Yeah, it's fun.

913
01:30:36,801 --> 01:30:44,124
Audiences must, I must say, audience is really, really paying attention at our concerts.

914
01:30:44,124 --> 01:30:49,626
really like staring and joining somehow.

915
01:30:50,347 --> 01:30:57,170
it's especially when we have explained a little bit of what we do, they are like...

916
01:30:58,066 --> 01:31:05,450
It's almost like school children like yes and they're in it together with us.

917
01:31:05,450 --> 01:31:06,598
That's really nice.

918
01:31:06,598 --> 01:31:08,692
We really appreciate this.

919
01:31:08,692 --> 01:31:11,854
Yeah we actually do this pretty much every concert.

920
01:31:11,854 --> 01:31:24,501
We play maybe like five minutes or ten minutes or something and then we stop and then we
say like hello we're a blah blah blah and then we explain just very easily how it works

921
01:31:24,802 --> 01:31:25,646
because

922
01:31:25,646 --> 01:31:28,526
Then there's also a very big shift in the audiences.

923
01:31:28,646 --> 01:31:33,966
Now they're kind of believing what they were thinking was happening.

924
01:31:33,966 --> 01:31:40,306
It's like, yeah, I was feeling that it was very connected here and the time was going up
and down, following.

925
01:31:40,306 --> 01:31:46,086
It's like, yeah, now you can trust yourself in a way.

926
01:31:46,086 --> 01:31:50,566
It's like back to this VR experience, now you can believe it.

927
01:31:51,066 --> 01:31:53,976
And then they appreciate it more and they...

928
01:31:53,976 --> 01:31:56,317
can just take it for what it is actually.

929
01:31:57,410 --> 01:32:04,034
I think that's probably an important part for what you guys do because it is so different
from what anyone's seen before.

930
01:32:04,054 --> 01:32:09,399
To just give them a little window into like, hey, do see this that's happening here?

931
01:32:09,399 --> 01:32:11,099
Do hear this that's happening here?

932
01:32:11,099 --> 01:32:14,601
And then this is why it's happening.

933
01:32:14,601 --> 01:32:21,165
And then you can go back to the kind of the music that you're making, but to...

934
01:32:22,016 --> 01:32:25,638
let you know like, hey, know, here's, when I do this, this happens.

935
01:32:25,638 --> 01:32:35,154
then we get, mean, you've seen, we've even seen that when like live looping was new and
someone had a guitar and they were like, okay, let me show you, I'm going to start with

936
01:32:35,154 --> 01:32:36,234
the beat.

937
01:32:37,335 --> 01:32:38,956
And then they play the next part.

938
01:32:38,956 --> 01:32:42,538
They kind of just tell you a little so that you're like, I see.

939
01:32:42,538 --> 01:32:44,910
Instead of just, I hear seven guitars.

940
01:32:44,910 --> 01:32:47,407
I don't know why, cause there's only one person there.

941
01:32:47,407 --> 01:32:58,431
but also because, as you said earlier, usually people are used to the dancer just dancing
to the music.

942
01:32:58,431 --> 01:33:13,207
That's so normal for people that when we have not explained what we're doing, people have
seriously thought that I'm just very, very, I practice a lot and I'm just exactly on top

943
01:33:13,207 --> 01:33:14,964
of Kristoffer's music.

944
01:33:14,964 --> 01:33:20,736
I just know where the beats are and then I'm sort of following.

945
01:33:20,736 --> 01:33:27,237
And then when I tell them, no, I'm actually playing those rhythms that you're hearing,
those sounds are...

946
01:33:27,978 --> 01:33:37,560
They can't believe it, but they have then watched the whole concert thinking that I'm just
there for the dance moves in a way.

947
01:33:37,921 --> 01:33:42,882
And that's also not strange because it's so common.

948
01:33:43,526 --> 01:33:54,469
you practice dancing and you make sure you know the music and yeah and the music maybe
just there's no musician it's just coming out of the speakers and then you have people

949
01:33:54,469 --> 01:34:10,554
dancing synchronized it's the most normal thing of course so I'm not I don't take it I
don't think people are stupid it's just it is it took us some time to realize how

950
01:34:10,914 --> 01:34:28,671
hard it was for people to get over their assumption of what dance is and what music is and
how long they would stick to believing this, even though the evidence is happening right

951
01:34:28,671 --> 01:34:29,982
in front of you.

952
01:34:30,962 --> 01:34:40,246
It's just, you would rather assume that I have practiced a lot to make this exactly like
this and not that I would play that.

953
01:34:40,246 --> 01:34:44,608
Or that we would have the technical abilities to do it the way we do it.

954
01:34:44,628 --> 01:34:55,854
And the ironic part is of course that this sort of like rehearsing and kind of faking it
would probably be harder.

955
01:34:56,095 --> 01:34:59,896
Because the timing is like so crazy, you know?

956
01:34:59,937 --> 01:35:04,389
So for the tap dance, would be much harder than to just do it.

957
01:35:04,389 --> 01:35:05,430
That's another idea.

958
01:35:05,430 --> 01:35:10,126
We should make a music video once where we're playbacking.

959
01:35:10,126 --> 01:35:11,886
our own music.

960
01:35:12,666 --> 01:35:16,306
We're like fake tap dancing on top of some...

961
01:35:16,306 --> 01:35:25,006
Yeah, and we're there with the sheet music and it's like, no, we're like have to take out
the scissors and cut away a little bit of a bar and glue it together.

962
01:35:26,924 --> 01:35:28,882
your version of lip syncing.

963
01:35:28,938 --> 01:35:30,120
Yeah, exactly.

964
01:35:30,120 --> 01:35:39,720
See how much we can get away with, like, how disconnected the movements and the sound
would be, how long you would, like, accept it.

965
01:35:41,087 --> 01:35:44,738
Well, we usually think of dance as a reaction to music.

966
01:35:44,738 --> 01:35:46,849
You dance to the music.

967
01:35:46,869 --> 01:35:50,431
So to you're dancing the music now.

968
01:35:51,166 --> 01:35:55,993
It's so much more interactive than we're used to seeing.

969
01:35:57,522 --> 01:36:02,026
It does sort of require, at least right now, right?

970
01:36:02,026 --> 01:36:07,331
Like a little introduction, a little crash course here.

971
01:36:07,592 --> 01:36:09,793
You know, I think that's cool.

972
01:36:10,318 --> 01:36:17,198
It's also interesting how it brings some sort of energy into it.

973
01:36:18,238 --> 01:36:22,308
This is also a project where I have to stand when I'm playing.

974
01:36:22,308 --> 01:36:25,118
I can't sit and play this music.

975
01:36:25,118 --> 01:36:27,158
Because I also start moving.

976
01:36:27,158 --> 01:36:30,398
I don't move the same way Janne is moving, of course.

977
01:36:30,398 --> 01:36:35,238
But I actually have to kind of activate my body in a way.

978
01:36:36,012 --> 01:36:41,529
Like I can't do so much, like I just like wiggle back and forth and like get active in a
way.

979
01:36:41,529 --> 01:36:51,532
But still it's this like transfer of energy or like kind of feeling the vibe of it a
little bit.

980
01:36:52,606 --> 01:36:56,900
I love that myself when I'm producing, when I'm making music.

981
01:36:56,900 --> 01:37:00,283
mean, playing guitar, you're standing, you're kind of already dancing.

982
01:37:00,283 --> 01:37:01,984
So I'm kind of used to that.

983
01:37:01,984 --> 01:37:09,331
But when I'm sitting at the desk making the music, sometimes I can't even tell if it's
grooving.

984
01:37:09,331 --> 01:37:14,255
So this desk actually is one of those rising desks that you can make a standup desk.

985
01:37:14,255 --> 01:37:19,109
So when I'm making the music, I'm usually standing because for me,

986
01:37:19,902 --> 01:37:22,734
If I start moving, I kind of know.

987
01:37:22,734 --> 01:37:32,622
Because you know how it is when you're like programming things and you're being really
selective about where every drum hit is going, every rhythmic element, it can get hard to

988
01:37:32,622 --> 01:37:35,855
tell if it's robotic or if it's even working.

989
01:37:35,855 --> 01:37:43,441
But if my body's just kind of naturally like, all right, here we go, then I don't need any
more proof than that.

990
01:37:43,441 --> 01:37:44,981
I can trust that.

991
01:37:45,878 --> 01:37:46,798
Yeah, exactly.

992
01:37:46,798 --> 01:37:51,191
that's a little tough for probably a lot of people when they're making music at a
computer.

993
01:37:51,191 --> 01:37:56,253
It's very sedentary and especially when you're making dance music.

994
01:37:56,253 --> 01:38:00,986
Like how do you really know if it's working unless you're testing it out?

995
01:38:03,215 --> 01:38:11,421
Yeah, and with that kind of music, it's also very like you try to tune it to the sound
system in a way, to the club.

996
01:38:11,421 --> 01:38:12,702
So it's also very different.

997
01:38:12,702 --> 01:38:21,068
People only listen to it on like headphones and small speakers and others who are maybe
out DJing in the weekend.

998
01:38:21,068 --> 01:38:30,654
Like I remember the producer Fortet, he always talks about how he's always testing his
mixes when he's DJing.

999
01:38:30,850 --> 01:38:36,251
Because then it's like, and now he has done it for so many years, so he really knows how
it should be.

1000
01:38:36,332 --> 01:38:47,715
But there is this like physical aspect of it that is like hard to, like it actually, it
only kind of becomes real when it comes out of the speakers in a way.

1001
01:38:47,715 --> 01:38:51,996
Sometimes it's almost like the waveform on the screen and so on.

1002
01:38:51,996 --> 01:38:53,757
That's almost like the score in a way.

1003
01:38:53,757 --> 01:38:59,254
And then the speaker and the sound system is the musician that is actually realizing it.

1004
01:38:59,254 --> 01:39:04,598
And when you use a different player, a different speaker, sounds different and it feels
different.

1005
01:39:04,779 --> 01:39:12,446
So taking these things into consideration can be very important depending on the genre and
so on.

1006
01:39:13,334 --> 01:39:15,297
Music and sound, really.

1007
01:39:15,297 --> 01:39:20,676
Sound is, I don't forget who said this to me, but I never thought of it the same way.

1008
01:39:20,676 --> 01:39:25,553
It's really kind of a very sensitive form of the sense of touch.

1009
01:39:26,008 --> 01:39:33,602
Cause it's moving air and what our ears are picking up on is that movement and our body
feels it.

1010
01:39:33,602 --> 01:39:39,664
You feel the bass and it's moving at a certain pace depending on the frequencies and all.

1011
01:39:39,744 --> 01:39:51,930
So when you are in your headphones, it's a nice experience too, but there is really
something about feeling it through a speaker and even playing guitar where I can have an

1012
01:39:51,930 --> 01:39:55,952
amp sim that sounds like a huge Marshall stack in the Grand Canyon.

1013
01:39:55,952 --> 01:40:04,881
It's cool sounding, but there's nothing like standing in front of it in that chord and
just like, you know, it's exciting.

1014
01:40:05,686 --> 01:40:15,014
I mean, I guess that's why they have like some of those sub pack type things that you can
wear that I guess I've never tried it, but I guess it vibrates so you can simulate those

1015
01:40:15,014 --> 01:40:16,155
feelings.

1016
01:40:16,716 --> 01:40:27,790
yeah, anyone that's been to a concert and just felt the movement of the air that's
happening when the speakers are sending out those frequencies, it's exhilarating.

1017
01:40:27,790 --> 01:40:33,310
There's also vibrations through the floor from the tap dance.

1018
01:40:33,930 --> 01:40:44,830
can be sometimes if I'm on the same level as the audience then they will also feel it
through their own feet, especially if they're sitting.

1019
01:40:46,430 --> 01:40:50,310
That can be a really nice part of the experience too.

1020
01:40:50,626 --> 01:40:51,587
Hmm.

1021
01:40:51,968 --> 01:40:53,062
Yeah, that's cool.

1022
01:40:53,062 --> 01:40:54,290
I didn't think of that.

1023
01:40:54,512 --> 01:40:55,253
But you're right.

1024
01:40:55,253 --> 01:40:57,896
Yeah, sending that.

1025
01:40:57,896 --> 01:41:01,400
And that's so one to one like you guys are talking about too.

1026
01:41:01,982 --> 01:41:04,765
There's that feedback that somebody gets.

1027
01:41:06,628 --> 01:41:07,929
That's cool.

1028
01:41:08,234 --> 01:41:13,976
And it's interesting because these are like, in one sense, we're in very different worlds.

1029
01:41:13,976 --> 01:41:19,717
Like, Janne has an acoustic sound and my sound doesn't exist before it comes out of a
speaker.

1030
01:41:19,898 --> 01:41:22,458
And then we're trying to blend these two things.

1031
01:41:22,478 --> 01:41:27,820
And we're playing in many different venues with different sound systems.

1032
01:41:27,820 --> 01:41:33,021
They have different acoustics, different floors that have different sound.

1033
01:41:33,261 --> 01:41:35,443
And it's an interesting challenge.

1034
01:41:35,443 --> 01:41:36,222
It's not...

1035
01:41:37,557 --> 01:41:39,882
always so easy.

1036
01:41:39,882 --> 01:41:48,158
Like sometimes we have to scratch our head a little bit during sound check but it usually
works out very well.

1037
01:41:50,604 --> 01:41:58,399
really interesting stuff and I want to get, let people know where they can find it.

1038
01:41:58,399 --> 01:42:02,921
And this also, think brings up something I wanted to ask you about too.

1039
01:42:03,362 --> 01:42:06,783
so a, that's how we say it.

1040
01:42:06,783 --> 01:42:07,664
Right.

1041
01:42:07,965 --> 01:42:14,048
Cause so for, okay.

1042
01:42:14,869 --> 01:42:16,310
I'm sorry for.

1043
01:42:16,908 --> 01:42:17,709
mess in with it.

1044
01:42:17,709 --> 01:42:29,698
don't even know what the first letter is called, but it's like a zero with a line through
it, the diagonal line, and then Y, and you say it, how do you say it?

1045
01:42:29,698 --> 01:42:30,281
A.

1046
01:42:30,281 --> 01:42:31,121
good.

1047
01:42:32,562 --> 01:42:34,525
Hey, hey.

1048
01:42:36,951 --> 01:42:39,696
I feel like I'm pulling out my New York accent.

1049
01:42:39,696 --> 01:42:41,879
hey, what are you doing?

1050
01:42:41,932 --> 01:42:43,343
pretty close.

1051
01:42:43,968 --> 01:42:47,016
We didn't think about this when we chose band name.

1052
01:42:48,012 --> 01:42:55,127
Well, it was easy to find once I figured out how to type that letter and the search bar
came right up.

1053
01:42:58,130 --> 01:43:00,661
But I know it's on all the streaming services people can find.

1054
01:43:00,661 --> 01:43:02,993
I'll put the links in the show notes too.

1055
01:43:03,013 --> 01:43:11,209
But I wanted to ask you about this be your own platform thing you have going on, which I
never heard of before.

1056
01:43:11,209 --> 01:43:12,650
Hashtag be your own platform.

1057
01:43:12,650 --> 01:43:15,382
And that's two T's in platform.

1058
01:43:15,730 --> 01:43:25,379
And you reference MySpace, which I remember doing MySpace with my last band, and that was
kind how we judged our popularity.

1059
01:43:25,379 --> 01:43:30,303
How many plays do we get on our MySpace player, like this back in the 2000s?

1060
01:43:30,304 --> 01:43:33,256
And then one day, no one was on MySpace anymore.

1061
01:43:35,163 --> 01:43:55,111
Yeah, and you know, now the we're experiencing like a real sort of internet capture in a
way with the this was his name, Cory Doctorow, who coined the word and shitification,

1062
01:43:55,111 --> 01:43:59,593
which was the word of the year in the previous year or something.

1063
01:43:59,593 --> 01:44:02,048
And it's about now.

1064
01:44:02,048 --> 01:44:03,718
and shitification.

1065
01:44:07,040 --> 01:44:18,325
So the concept is that there comes a new platform and it gives you all these benefits to
reach new people and all of this.

1066
01:44:18,325 --> 01:44:21,706
So let's say going from MySpace to Facebook.

1067
01:44:21,706 --> 01:44:28,189
So Facebook comes along, you make your Facebook band page instead of your MySpace profile.

1068
01:44:28,329 --> 01:44:31,220
And all of a sudden you reach all these new people.

1069
01:44:31,692 --> 01:44:36,886
And then first they cut off like the regular people.

1070
01:44:36,886 --> 01:44:40,528
So now you have to have to pay for the reach.

1071
01:44:40,528 --> 01:44:42,850
now it's just exactly.

1072
01:44:42,850 --> 01:44:48,233
So now it's just the corporations that get the benefit.

1073
01:44:48,734 --> 01:44:55,638
And slowly now also the corporation gets no benefit and it's all going to shit.

1074
01:44:56,379 --> 01:44:58,561
But everyone is like super locked in.

1075
01:44:58,561 --> 01:45:01,022
That's like that's their power move.

1076
01:45:02,359 --> 01:45:09,086
So this whole concept of be your own platform is that you make your own platform.

1077
01:45:09,086 --> 01:45:16,212
So you're just locked into your own platform and you decide if you want to change it.

1078
01:45:17,754 --> 01:45:19,886
Because we have seen a few rounds now.

1079
01:45:19,886 --> 01:45:25,982
So we had Myspace and then we had Facebook and Facebook is really not working anymore.

1080
01:45:26,250 --> 01:45:29,552
And people are still using Instagram.

1081
01:45:29,552 --> 01:45:32,153
Instagram is kind of still okay.

1082
01:45:32,153 --> 01:45:37,696
But still now there's coming a lot of ads there and all of this stuff.

1083
01:45:38,657 --> 01:45:43,159
But the one thing that doesn't go away is like your own place.

1084
01:45:44,280 --> 01:45:45,691
So this be your own platform thing.

1085
01:45:45,691 --> 01:45:51,964
It came out of the Bandcamp drama actually when Bandcamp were sold two times.

1086
01:45:52,484 --> 01:45:56,266
And it's basically just a movement where

1087
01:45:56,920 --> 01:46:01,951
People are exploring the alternatives and trying to do things themselves.

1088
01:46:01,951 --> 01:46:09,714
So it's a lot about making your own website, having a newsletter that people can subscribe
to.

1089
01:46:10,114 --> 01:46:23,338
So even though actually Google are also destroying email a little bit now because they are
so monopolistic with the Gmail and all of a sudden your email goes into a different tab

1090
01:46:23,338 --> 01:46:24,958
and people don't read it.

1091
01:46:25,144 --> 01:46:30,375
But it's still pretty good with email and then you can make a RSS feed and so on.

1092
01:46:30,375 --> 01:46:36,357
But anyways, the website itself, people can't destroy that.

1093
01:46:36,537 --> 01:46:39,488
So that's kind of the concept about doing things yourself.

1094
01:46:39,488 --> 01:46:50,781
And like for example, a year ago I stopped paying for SoundCloud premium because I thought
the service was getting really bad.

1095
01:46:50,781 --> 01:46:54,982
Like it was so great when it started, but every...

1096
01:46:55,042 --> 01:47:00,127
capitalistic platform, they have to grow all the time and then they just have to make more
money.

1097
01:47:00,127 --> 01:47:01,928
And then you get ads.

1098
01:47:01,928 --> 01:47:15,911
then I think now with SoundCloud, if you open a SoundCloud link and you're not logged in
and a real user or whatever, first, of course, you say, hey, do you want to be a user?

1099
01:47:15,911 --> 01:47:18,262
It's like, no, no, no, click away all the things.

1100
01:47:18,343 --> 01:47:20,745
And then you press play and it's working.

1101
01:47:20,745 --> 01:47:22,046
And then it's like,

1102
01:47:22,426 --> 01:47:25,968
yeah, I actually, I need to skip to the middle part.

1103
01:47:25,968 --> 01:47:31,891
Then it's like, no, no, no, you can't skip in the track unless you're paying customers.

1104
01:47:32,232 --> 01:47:36,053
So this is happening like everywhere.

1105
01:47:37,254 --> 01:47:42,497
And this be your own platform thing is basically trying to explore the alternatives.

1106
01:47:42,497 --> 01:47:46,059
And a lot of it is going back to how the internet used to be.

1107
01:47:46,059 --> 01:47:52,140
Like when you're talking about the open web, this same guy, Corey Doctrow,

1108
01:47:52,140 --> 01:48:01,895
He describes it now as the internet for most people are like four websites filled with
screenshots of the other ones.

1109
01:48:02,076 --> 01:48:06,158
So it's like you go on Instagram and it's like, here's a, here's a tweet.

1110
01:48:06,158 --> 01:48:08,208
And then you go on anyways.

1111
01:48:08,208 --> 01:48:09,920
that's the, that's the concept.

1112
01:48:09,920 --> 01:48:13,342
So it's a lot about people trying to be, independent.

1113
01:48:13,342 --> 01:48:19,235
And especially for, for more like underground artists and niche stuff and so on.

1114
01:48:19,235 --> 01:48:20,445
We.

1115
01:48:21,728 --> 01:48:25,840
actually are not trying to go as wide as possible.

1116
01:48:25,840 --> 01:48:28,261
We're trying to go as deep as possible.

1117
01:48:28,441 --> 01:48:39,105
And this doesn't really work when you are in the same feed competing for people's
attention together with like McDonald's and Beyonce, you know.

1118
01:48:39,246 --> 01:48:43,467
So it's much better to have like a more direct connection.

1119
01:48:43,467 --> 01:48:49,750
And if you see the parallel to like the physical world, it's like...

1120
01:48:50,390 --> 01:48:57,394
You go to, you play in these small bars and then maybe you play in a bigger space here and
so on.

1121
01:48:57,394 --> 01:49:02,377
But actually you are in all these small spaces and you're connecting with people.

1122
01:49:02,377 --> 01:49:09,972
You're not trying to go fill the stadium, but that's kind of what we're doing when
everything is on the same feed.

1123
01:49:09,972 --> 01:49:10,822
Yeah.

1124
01:49:10,862 --> 01:49:17,186
Could have a whole podcast about this, but it's quite interesting actually to question
some of these things.

1125
01:49:17,334 --> 01:49:20,756
And okay, I'll do a quick example more.

1126
01:49:20,756 --> 01:49:32,140
that's now I publish on my website, I have a blog and I publish, I still put some videos
on YouTube, but I also put them just directly on the blog.

1127
01:49:32,140 --> 01:49:34,481
Just a HTML player.

1128
01:49:34,481 --> 01:49:35,922
Very easy.

1129
01:49:36,162 --> 01:49:41,104
Like people did in the nineties, except now everyone have fast internet so you can have
high definition.

1130
01:49:41,104 --> 01:49:45,740
But so there, there is no view counter and

1131
01:49:45,740 --> 01:49:55,865
just this difference is like a huge difference because if you go on YouTube, it's like
filled with thumbnails of people trying to pull out their craziest expression and

1132
01:49:55,865 --> 01:50:00,437
clickbait title and it's like, this one have 200,000 views.

1133
01:50:00,437 --> 01:50:02,178
This must be a good one.

1134
01:50:02,178 --> 01:50:04,199
This one has 50 views.

1135
01:50:04,519 --> 01:50:05,840
I won't bother.

1136
01:50:06,160 --> 01:50:10,612
And maybe that's the, that's the good one, you know, or the one that you would enjoy.

1137
01:50:12,652 --> 01:50:19,638
Yeah, it's interesting how those numbers even just subconsciously make us think, good,
bad, not good.

1138
01:50:19,638 --> 01:50:21,831
No one cares about this, but this is good.

1139
01:50:21,831 --> 01:50:33,101
And most of us are looking for those things that are very specific to us and that we want
something that's kind of different, but those numbers are a lot.

1140
01:50:33,101 --> 01:50:34,772
But what you're saying about

1141
01:50:35,106 --> 01:50:46,125
Controlling your own platform having your website your your email list I agree with
wholeheartedly because like you I've Seen the internet change now and watched platforms go

1142
01:50:46,125 --> 01:50:54,622
away and what some of them I've invested a lot of work into and sometimes it's just a
little change in the dial and how they

1143
01:50:55,128 --> 01:51:01,002
put their information out, how you reach your followers, if you even reach your followers.

1144
01:51:01,723 --> 01:51:09,629
All that can change so fast, but when you have your own control, you can at least ensure
you'll still be there tomorrow.

1145
01:51:10,158 --> 01:51:14,290
Yeah, because they like some of these platforms are still valuable.

1146
01:51:14,290 --> 01:51:23,683
Like we got booked to one of the, if not the biggest jazz festival in Norway based on like
Instagram clips.

1147
01:51:24,604 --> 01:51:32,987
But then that's kind of like going on the street and giving out flyers, you know, then
maybe some people see it, maybe they check it out.

1148
01:51:32,987 --> 01:51:37,249
So this kind of like advertisement, but then what is the next level?

1149
01:51:37,289 --> 01:51:40,270
Like when people have found your stuff.

1150
01:51:40,396 --> 01:51:48,181
and they're like, this is something maybe I would be interested in, then it's about having
the place to invite them to.

1151
01:51:48,183 --> 01:51:52,030
Because if not, you're gonna get lost in this stream.

1152
01:51:52,718 --> 01:51:53,418
Yeah.

1153
01:51:53,418 --> 01:52:01,678
Well, when I go on my social medias, even my YouTube, I'm not necessarily getting the
stuff I've subscribed to.

1154
01:52:01,678 --> 01:52:05,058
It's the stuff that they think I'm going to want to see.

1155
01:52:05,058 --> 01:52:12,948
That's going to somehow bait me in because it's, it's really about just keeping you on the
platform and who could blame them really?

1156
01:52:12,948 --> 01:52:15,608
mean, that's, that's what they're trying to do.

1157
01:52:15,608 --> 01:52:18,944
That's if you understand their goal, it makes sense.

1158
01:52:18,944 --> 01:52:19,918
Exactly.

1159
01:52:19,918 --> 01:52:22,385
So then but then we're trying to...

1160
01:52:22,829 --> 01:52:23,646
Not true!

1161
01:52:23,646 --> 01:52:25,550
expect them to do anything else?

1162
01:52:25,592 --> 01:52:29,761
It's not a charity act that it's out there.

1163
01:52:30,191 --> 01:52:44,384
But I've been also now been talking about this movement a lot and I made like a rant video
on YouTube where I was talking about this and I was saying that used to YouTube used to be

1164
01:52:44,384 --> 01:52:55,114
so great because you would see all this independent people putting out their videos that
couldn't go on TV, you know, and now it's kind of.

1165
01:52:55,148 --> 01:53:02,984
being removed because you only see the already popular stuff on the big or on the
algorithmic feed and so on.

1166
01:53:03,225 --> 01:53:17,006
But you know, in that video or under the video, like in the comment section, there was
also a person who wrote to me that, yeah, I really connect with all the stuff you're

1167
01:53:17,006 --> 01:53:19,998
saying and so on and blah, blah.

1168
01:53:19,998 --> 01:53:24,021
And then they wrote, now I realized that

1169
01:53:24,770 --> 01:53:36,498
You are the person that I watched a video of 10 years ago where you used this one guitar
that I was considering buying.

1170
01:53:37,098 --> 01:53:40,620
I watched the video and then I saw you used this Monom grid.

1171
01:53:40,981 --> 01:53:46,194
And then I got so inspired that this actually started this whole journey for me.

1172
01:53:46,194 --> 01:53:54,440
And now 10 years later, now I'm making all these sounds that I've always dreamt about.

1173
01:53:54,440 --> 01:53:55,531
making.

1174
01:53:56,512 --> 01:54:05,982
And like this comment is like super touching, you know, and this wouldn't happen unless I
put my video on this now pretty shitty platform in a way.

1175
01:54:05,982 --> 01:54:08,565
So it's it's it's very nuanced in a way.

1176
01:54:08,565 --> 01:54:13,580
But I think it's it's important to to ask some of these questions.

1177
01:54:15,084 --> 01:54:20,176
Yeah, it's amazing, but we're so lucky to have this stuff at all, right?

1178
01:54:20,176 --> 01:54:25,759
And on one level, it is like almost crazy that we would complain about it.

1179
01:54:26,059 --> 01:54:34,443
But if you want that control of your own work, keep it in your control.

1180
01:54:34,443 --> 01:54:40,306
Don't sign it off to something else because anything could happen at any moment.

1181
01:54:41,070 --> 01:54:44,086
Yeah, at least not put all your eggs in that basket.

1182
01:54:44,224 --> 01:54:44,655
Right.

1183
01:54:44,655 --> 01:54:45,236
Yeah.

1184
01:54:45,236 --> 01:54:47,019
I think, yeah, take advantage of it.

1185
01:54:47,019 --> 01:54:47,680
Use it.

1186
01:54:47,680 --> 01:54:50,986
I mean, like you said, you've, you've reached people, you've changed lives.

1187
01:54:50,986 --> 01:54:53,830
So there's something cool about it.

1188
01:54:54,813 --> 01:54:55,239
But.

1189
01:54:55,239 --> 01:54:57,213
wasn't reflected in the numbers.

1190
01:54:57,395 --> 01:55:00,563
Like this was reflected in someone telling me, you know.

1191
01:55:00,563 --> 01:55:04,030
So that's also a very interesting observation.

1192
01:55:05,832 --> 01:55:08,324
it's not like that video made crazy numbers.

1193
01:55:08,324 --> 01:55:11,105
I thought it was a cool video, so was happy about it.

1194
01:55:11,165 --> 01:55:17,509
But when someone tells me 10 years after that, it literally changed their life a little
bit.

1195
01:55:17,569 --> 01:55:19,360
That's very valuable.

1196
01:55:19,360 --> 01:55:24,693
But that only comes from someone reaching out and having a conversation.

1197
01:55:25,356 --> 01:55:26,186
Yeah.

1198
01:55:27,287 --> 01:55:34,229
Which I guess is the reason why we should do that to the people we admire and the work we
appreciate, you know?

1199
01:55:35,890 --> 01:55:39,932
It's a conversation and that is a cool thing that we can get involved too.

1200
01:55:39,932 --> 01:55:45,734
It's not just that we can put it out, but we can interact with all the people we enjoy the
work of.

1201
01:55:46,891 --> 01:55:55,197
But you to make sure to kind of do it because what's so easy in this, just these systems
is that the humans disappear.

1202
01:55:55,278 --> 01:56:00,692
It's just left with this systematic, almost AI in a way.

1203
01:56:00,780 --> 01:56:02,376
Mm-hmm, right.

1204
01:56:04,088 --> 01:56:05,360
Weird times.

1205
01:56:05,726 --> 01:56:06,346
definitely.

1206
01:56:06,346 --> 01:56:09,286
So a good trick is to a tap dancer on stage.

1207
01:56:09,286 --> 01:56:10,706
Very human.

1208
01:56:12,192 --> 01:56:16,154
And it's different and it's eye catching and ear catching, right?

1209
01:56:17,536 --> 01:56:20,218
You guys are doing awesome stuff.

1210
01:56:20,218 --> 01:56:33,848
I'm really happy to just on my own level of the last time I spoke with you, Christopher,
this idea was just starting and here we are now to see it start to come to fruition and

1211
01:56:33,848 --> 01:56:35,369
see the energy.

1212
01:56:35,369 --> 01:56:37,209
by now all of the...

1213
01:56:37,570 --> 01:56:40,853
The chemistry that the two of you have musically is amazing.

1214
01:56:41,394 --> 01:56:53,986
It's inspiring for me to see and it just goes to show that your visions can come to life
and I'm sure it's even taken on dimensions you never imagined five years ago.

1215
01:56:54,182 --> 01:56:55,423
Definitely.

1216
01:56:56,864 --> 01:57:05,771
right back to you, for sticking around, you know, and keep on producing this podcast and
all the great things you do.

1217
01:57:06,112 --> 01:57:09,734
It's like, it's really nice stuff.

1218
01:57:10,478 --> 01:57:11,018
Thanks.

1219
01:57:11,018 --> 01:57:17,098
Well, thanks for being an early adopter coming on the show in the way back days.

1220
01:57:17,158 --> 01:57:27,138
I forget what number I got it open here, but the first time you were on was number 41,
which was probably the first year I was doing it.

1221
01:57:27,138 --> 01:57:31,098
So yeah, that was no, wasn't.

1222
01:57:31,098 --> 01:57:31,512
Yeah.

1223
01:57:31,512 --> 01:57:48,380
And was really funny actually when I asked you to do this one I checked like what was the
previous episodes now and what's his name is Francis Preve?

1224
01:57:48,380 --> 01:57:57,184
Yeah, he was on I think the episode before me last time and he was quite recently on.

1225
01:57:57,442 --> 01:57:58,302
Yeah.

1226
01:57:58,683 --> 01:57:59,843
Yeah, he's...

1227
01:58:02,686 --> 01:58:09,050
Yeah, I've had a few people that want to talk to me again, which is great.

1228
01:58:10,292 --> 01:58:13,688
This has been a very human thing.

1229
01:58:13,688 --> 01:58:22,304
to do with for me with like this technology and with the work because it can get lonely,
you know, making your music in your home.

1230
01:58:22,304 --> 01:58:26,277
And even if you are putting it out there, like you said, you don't always hear back from
people.

1231
01:58:26,277 --> 01:58:28,408
So it's really nice to talk.

1232
01:58:28,408 --> 01:58:38,866
And it's it's been a lot of fun for the people I have reconnected with on the show or even
in real life occasionally to just see how they've developed and changed and what they're

1233
01:58:38,866 --> 01:58:39,816
up to.

1234
01:58:40,717 --> 01:58:42,338
I think that's really.

1235
01:58:43,682 --> 01:58:49,104
A big part of everything we do is this connection, even releasing music.

1236
01:58:49,225 --> 01:58:52,336
If you're releasing it, you're trying to connect on some level.

1237
01:58:52,336 --> 01:58:54,017
Otherwise you just keep it to yourself.

1238
01:58:54,017 --> 01:58:55,427
like, no, it's mine.

1239
01:58:56,548 --> 01:59:01,931
So this has been a fun, fun road to be on and I'm glad to have you on it.

1240
01:59:01,931 --> 01:59:08,864
And I'm glad that you're now on the road too and doing really awesome stuff together.

1241
01:59:09,358 --> 01:59:10,673
Yeah, awesome.

1242
01:59:11,830 --> 01:59:12,890
All right.

1243
01:59:13,271 --> 01:59:15,632
So I think so.

1244
01:59:15,632 --> 01:59:16,433
Yeah.

1245
01:59:16,433 --> 01:59:19,444
So we'll put the links in the show notes.

1246
01:59:19,444 --> 01:59:23,456
Do you want to just say, I know we've got your website.

1247
01:59:24,137 --> 01:59:36,424
This would be so Christopher Lesligard is going to be K R I S T O F F E R L I S L E G A A
R D dot com.

1248
01:59:36,424 --> 01:59:37,885
That might be.

1249
01:59:39,366 --> 01:59:40,116
is that.

1250
01:59:40,259 --> 01:59:44,345
just lisleg.com.

1251
01:59:44,907 --> 01:59:47,750
Then it links to the other one.

1252
01:59:48,261 --> 01:59:48,903
very good.

1253
01:59:48,903 --> 01:59:52,255
L-I-S-L-E-G dot com.

1254
01:59:52,255 --> 01:59:53,175
Nice.

1255
01:59:53,594 --> 01:59:56,018
And then we have a website.

1256
01:59:56,018 --> 02:00:02,096
So it's O, not O, but O, the normal letter for you people.

1257
02:00:02,096 --> 02:00:03,588
OYduo.com.

1258
02:00:05,518 --> 02:00:09,678
Okay, O-Y-D-U-O.com.

1259
02:00:09,678 --> 02:00:10,752
Okay, cool.

1260
02:00:10,752 --> 02:00:13,016
And then there is links to everywhere.

1261
02:00:13,388 --> 02:00:14,279
Nice.

1262
02:00:14,400 --> 02:00:18,968
And I'll put it all in the show notes too, if that was too much for anybody.

1263
02:00:21,174 --> 02:00:25,662
Well, thank you both very much and thank you for listening.

1264
02:00:27,754 --> 02:00:29,504
Alrighty, we did it.