Josh (04:17.671) Britt, welcome to Reversible.
Britt (04:54.298) Hi, thank you so much for having me on. I've been looking forward to this for a while.
Josh (04:57.835) I'm so glad. It's always awkward if I'm the only one looking forward to it, so I'm glad we both have been. Well, I want to learn more about you and about stuck and about what this is. Britt, what does it mean to be stuck and why does it happen to us?
Britt (05:01.859) I'm sorry.
Britt (05:15.03) Yeah, and before we dive into all of the why we get stuck, and it's so important to me, especially in the social media realm, to make it very clear that when I am talking about stuckness, I am not referring to situations where there's a war going on or where you're under oppression or you're unsafe. The stuckness, the zone that my work focuses on assumes relative safety, assumes that you have choices.
If you're in a situation where you have absolutely no safety and no choices, I don't call that stuck. I call that you're in a really unsafe environment. So it's always important to me to be responsible and differentiate this type of stuck I'm talking to assumes relative safety, relative choice and access to resources. So with that caveat, a lot of times we get stuck is because we have bad information. I think it's really odd. Social media wasn't a thing when I was growing up and I would have loved to have had access to it.
Josh (05:50.343) Mm.
Britt (06:11.238) but we've over indexed on too much information where it used to be we didn't have enough and we end up with the same problem, we're still stuck. So I think it's really difficult to wade through who is full of poo and who is legit and which information applies. So one source of stuckness is external and that's just a hard time sifting through an ocean of info. The other reason we often get stuck is because there's a story that we can't get unstuck.
Josh (06:17.955) Mm.
Britt (06:40.278) You know, if I believe that this is who I am, this is how I've always been, this is how I've always done things, then I can identify as a type of person. I am an addict, I am a whatever. And then the change process becomes completely blocked off. Because if this is who I am, then there's no point in doing the change process. I mean, it's not true. This is who I am is not actually how brains brain. Like that is not a...
science thing. Like we know our brains are plastic and are totally capable of learning and changing and growing. So there's that. But there's also, and this is the yucky one that no one wants to talk about, we get stuck, we stay stuck because there are often benefits to being stuck. And without shame or blame or, oh my God, how could I have done this? It's so important to look and be like, there's a benefit to not all behaviors good, but all behaviors functional or wouldn't be there. So
Josh (07:12.147) Mm.
Britt (07:35.502) Can we take the shame off of it and actually get curious about what's the function of you not making the change you know you need to make, you know you want to make, you know you have to make, nevertheless, here we are. And that's because there are benefits. So let's talk about those. Let's get curious about it, because that's when change.
Josh (07:46.227) Hmm.
Josh (07:52.463) I love that. Now, what I'm about to say in the wrong context would absolutely torpedo my career because I specialize, like I said, in IBD. So I do Crohn's and colitis and that's who I help. And that's why I love helping because it's such a desolate.
almost hopeless, terrible situation, it destroys people's lives. It's very, very damaging to every aspect of their lives. And so with that context being said, like I love what I'm doing. And I think it's important to have community. It's important to have people who are like-minded, who are going through the same struggles, people you can lean on and support. And you know, there's these great t-shirts like Kaleidos Warrior and these Kaleidos Warrior communities. And that's
people like them, it gives validity to the struggle. Cause families don't often understand what these people are going through. They don't understand cause you can't visually see the sickness until they start losing weight, until they start missing stuff, until they start, you know, they're gonna get more medications and more hospital visits or need surgery to remove some intestine. The challenge that I see as a coach is there are a lot of people who get these t-shirts and become part of these communities and without realizing it, it's almost like they don't want to leave. It's like they will choose
to stay stuck or choose to be sick. Not being said, they didn't choose this illness. Nobody chooses this illness. But when you have options in front of you, you have ways forward, you have other methods you can explore, they just go, no, I'm good. And I've talked to clients about this before, and we found that it was really, they just, they needed their community. They were afraid to leave those people or afraid of what they would say if maybe they were getting healthy and the others were still sick. And what is going on with that?
what is happening psychologically, we choose to be stuck.
Britt (09:41.774) It's so unfortunate, right? And people get really mad. Like, how dare you say that I'm choosing this? It's like, I love the way you framed it. You didn't choose the problem, but if there is a menu of options available to you and you have no logical reason why you're not doing it, then we need to go and look. And the whole choice thing is actually not a victim blamey thing. It's quite empowering to know. And I'll use myself as an example, the addiction world.
Josh (10:05.319) Mm-hmm.
Britt (10:09.458) I was very, very steeped in the 12 step world for a long time, because I am recovering person who used lots of different things to cope with life. And you have to identify as an addict, you follow the set of very strict principles and operating systems. And if you leave that, it's not like a shunning, but almost. And so I was really, really...
in a place where I was terrified and I didn't have the resources to just like go out on my own, I needed those rooms, I needed the community there. But I no longer go to those meetings and I don't identify as an addict. And that's part of the healing process that people don't tell you. And I am not comparing, so nobody blow up either of our social media inboxes. I'm not comparing drug addiction with colitis. Like that is not the same thing.
Josh (10:51.251) Yeah
Britt (10:58.306) However, the tendency to lean into the community that organizes around a common theme, well, if you no longer identify with that theme, then you don't really fit anymore. And the part of the healing process that no one talks about is the grief that comes with the loss of community that not always, but often occurs when you start to get healthier and happier.
Cause like you said, it's really hard for someone to celebrate their gains if all of their people are still steeped in a place of stuckness. And again, it's not a shamey blamey thing. It's just, there's a degree to which as you continue to grow and heal and change and evolve your playgrounds and playmates are going to change too. I held on to my community, not just my addition. I joined a fundamentalist cult in my early twenties, cause I really loved having. Do this, think this, there's all the merch we can do what we want, but like
It's really sad when you have to leave that stuff behind. And it's really scary. I held onto that with a death grip until it, I didn't. But you know, I understands the temptation to align and identify with a community organized around a problem.
Josh (12:08.851) Hmm. You know, and I think it's really important to frame that as well, because obviously there are some cases of colitis that are easier to fix or other sicknesses and illnesses. And, you know, I see people from all walks, I can't ever say like, here's your one root cause, but there are causes or contributing factors to some of these illnesses, be it IBS like yourself, and you've dealt with for many years, be it colitis or Crohn's, like something has to trigger the immune system, right? Something has to cause this doesn't just autoimmunity doesn't fall to the sky and onto your head. But
I've had people 16 years of severe colitis, three weeks, symptoms gone. We were able to find the route very easy. They responded very well. Some people respond very slowly and that's okay. Everybody can make some progress, right? Everybody can get better in some way. Even at the very least, it's just mental health and wellness or acceptance in circumstance and taking control of what they can take control of. But there's always a weight that drags us down. Like you said, be it that community, that grief of loss of community.
or be it even others in your community who try to hold you back, which I find more interesting. I grew up in a town, Windsor, Ontario, very small, 250,000, I affectionately call it the crotch of Canada. It really was just the pits. There's more strip clubs and bars per capita at the time of any other city in the country. A lot of...
crime activity, organized crime like Hells Angels activity, a lot of just really gnarly stuff. And a lot of those people that I went to high school with are still working the same jobs they were in high school, never really cared to leave. They're still drinking on the weekends, just have no ambition, and that's okay if that's what they want. But why do people from these communities or these areas try to hold us back, discourage you from leaving, try to guilt you into staying?
maybe guilt you for your successes. What happens in the psychology that creates these weights to hold us back?
Britt (14:05.174) And it's not just happening in smaller cities and the crotch regions of country. I mean, this is a phenomenon that happens wherever you go. I was shocked when I started to really get healthy and my life started to get really good how quickly I found myself standing in the middle of the street all alone. It's like, wait a second, where did my family and friends go? And I don't think, I mean, I have a cynical part that's like misery loves company and that's a psychological fact. Okay, fine.
Josh (14:10.612) The crotch regions.
Britt (14:33.346) But the more benevolence, humans are good parts of me are like, I don't think there's necessarily a malicious intent. I think that it's very easy to get comfortable, not happy, but comfortable. And neurologically, we know this. Our brains are not wired for health, they're wired for survival. So if I'm comfortable in my complacency, my brain is going to associate that with, I'm alive, therefore it's good enough.
When you see people start to change, it's very confronting because, and again, I'll speak for myself, as long as I identified with, I have a terrible addiction and I have this mental illness and this is who I am, if this is who I am, there's no burden on me to make any changes. And then I can just be like, well, this sucks and blahdy, blah. When people change, it's a big mirror that's being held up to possibility and potential.
for people again that have relative safety and access to choices. Being confronted with potential sounds like it should be good. It's like, oh my God, yay. Like, why would I not want this? Health and happiness and success and abundance and all of these things are available if I stop doing drugs, if I start making better choices. But the people around me, they don't want to lose a member of the community, number one, because we're social creatures. We're supposed to band together so we can survive the wilderness. But I think it's very confronting.
And it's sad because I know nobody who has gotten healthy from anything, whether it's autoimmune or addiction or mental, whatever mental health, that doesn't want all the people in their life to come with them. It's like, Oh my God, guys, I listened to what I, I learned this amazing information. Like let's do this together. Where'd all my friends and family go? And so that's where the grief piece has to come in. And again, I'm not a physician.
but I will speak to with my IBS. I was so not willing to address the trauma component of that. It's like, nope, I'm gonna go to my gastroenterologist. I'm gonna go to the chiropractor and I'm gonna get acupuncture and I'm gonna do all these treatments, but I am not looking at the origin wounds of my childhood that might be contributing to my body's resistance to digesting food. That was the very last place I wanted to look, but that for me was the place where healing began to start to happen.
Josh (16:49.299) Hmm. Now I wasn't aware that stuck was really science. I always assumed it was a subconscious choice. It was something that, like you said, right? I chose, maybe even didn't realize you were choosing not to address the trauma wounds or the childhood stuff or all these stories that happen. And I don't say stories in an invaliding way, like you're making it up, but we do have stories. It's a story, we can literally write a book about what happened to you. And it's what control those stories have in our lives that can...
either propel us forward or hold us back. And I always figured that was just kind of a subconscious choice or a willful ignorance or burying our head in the sand. And I've done it so many times where I've just chosen not to take responsibility or chosen not to take that step forward. And I can always blame somebody or blame something, but ultimately it's my choice. But the science of stuck says it's a science, that there's something there and maybe not a choice. So can you explain what is the science of stuck?
Britt (17:49.294) I'm so glad you teed that up the way you did because this is so important to me since this is my entire body of work. Just because there's a science behind stuckness does not mean that there's not a solution. Like knowing the science behind addiction, knowing the science behind bad habits, knowing the science behind inertia and procrastinate. Like just because there's science to explain it doesn't excuse it. So when people are like, oh great, I have science behind my-
not choosing to do xyz, therefore I'm good. I'm like, no, an explanation is not a synonym for an excuse. We explain the origin of behavior using science, so then we know which tools to apply to be able to move forward. We often treat these poor choices or these choices that are contrary to what we say we want as these moral, like what's wrong with you? You're just lazy. You're just unmotivated. You're just unambitious. Like whatever these things are, and I do it too, you know, it's just easier.
But when you look and realize that our brains and our nervous systems are wired, first let's assume that your nervous system's on your side, like it's not out to get you. And so knowing that, evolutionarily speaking, you're better off not working out because if there was a tough winter, your body needs to conserve its resources so that you don't die. Now we don't live there. So we can retrain our brains out of these very primal survival responses. But...
often what gets labeled as mental illness or what manifests as physical symptoms with gut health, with autoimmune, not every time, not for everyone, but often, is a result of our brain doing what brains were wired to do, which is with trauma. And trauma doesn't have to be high level like horribleness. Like, you know, to a degree, we all have something less than optimal happen to us. You know, I call it brain indigestion. So why not?
know the science behind fight flight freeze so then we can move forward.
Josh (19:46.579) So the science of STUC is understanding your nervous system and what it's either trying to do to protect you or allow you experiences or some kind of science-y neurological mechanism that we don't really understand unless we can confront it logically and open in a scientific way. Am I summarizing that right?
Britt (20:02.974) I wish logic was the way forward, because I would prefer not to be in my body or in my feelings. But the problem was, is that often we think that we should be able to logic, or like try to logic your way out of an eye. For me, I can't logic my way out of an IBS attack, when that would be happening. I can think, here are the origins that contributed to this, and here's what's happening. Okay, body, stop it. But we walk around our lives in these physiological organisms called bodies.
And if we don't know how they work, how are we supposed to care for them and treat them? Now, what you see in your work are people who you're telling them do this and then they're not. And that's when the science is stuck is both a physical science and also a psychological science. And then if you wanna get super, I believe there's like a metaphysical piece to it too, but that's outside my zone. I stay in my clinic.
Josh (20:52.139) I respect that. I like to address or mention that I believe things exist, but very much the same. If I don't know, I'm gonna straight up tell you like, look, it's not my expertise, but go watch Bruce Lipton or, you know, whoever else is out there can talk about it. But so up to this point so far, we've really covered the science of stock, what happens, why it happens, the community, why people hold us back, why we hold ourselves back. Let's talk about sabotage. You know, when people
Do I see a light up about that question? I did read it in your pamphlet about how it's kind of a shitty word. I want to get there. Let me contextualize this for our listeners. So when people finally decide like, you know what, I am going to take action. They're able to break free, break free, handle that grief of leaving their community or what they know or that comfort zone as uncomfortable as it may be. We decide to take action. Example, someone might pay for a weight loss program, right? And not checking with their coach. They don't change their eating habits. They don't exercise at all.
Britt (21:23.966) Hahaha!
Josh (21:47.687) What inspires old habits or patterns to take hold and cause us to self-sabotage that possibility of progress?
Britt (21:57.246) And my eyes light up, because you know, this is one of my favorite things to talk about. And it's not just about me gatekeeping terms. That's not what's happening here. But if we frame the problem self-sabotage as I am now fighting with myself, if it's sabotage, well, who's doing the sabotaging? It's me, but who's trying to get healthy? It's me. And so if we frame this problem as an internal war, then we're never gonna win it.
Because if we think that there's something inside of us that's out to get us, our physiology is going to react as if we were being attacked by lions, which then perpetuates these cycles that we are trying to break. So we have to start with, what's the function of self-sabotage? Is it just that you're a stupid bad person that's making bad choices and shame on you? No, the reason that we quote sabotage is because our systems registered all change, even positive change.
is going to initially register in our brains as threatening. Threatening to our relationships, to our status quo, to our current ecosystem. The collateral damage of losing weight and getting healthy is, again, the people around you might not support you. And so if we don't know that there are benefits, if I embark on a weight loss program, then there's the risk of failure. If I never start it, then I don't have to risk failing at it. I don't have to lose my community. I can just...
Josh (23:04.551) Hmm.
Britt (23:16.95) be here and I certainly never have to deal with anything else because all my Bandwidth is focused on do the thing. I didn't do the thing What's wrong with me that I didn't do the thing now I'm doing more of the other thing because I feel guilty for not doing this thing and then off we go So we have to start with self-sabotage is a sub optimal or a maladaptive way of self-protection if we can frame it as self-protection, we're going to get to solutions faster
Josh (23:42.671) like that. It's not gatekeeping terms. And I hope our listeners can really extrapolate that. It's reframing, it's reworking, it's rewording our understanding differently. You know, there's, excuse me, there's a classic image and somebody draws a number six on the ground and one person is standing at the foot of the six and they go, that's a number six. The other person standing at the other side facing them goes, no, that's a nine. And it's the same thing. If we just turn around and shift and change how we're viewing these things, we can understand each other or better understand.
Britt (23:48.846) Mm-hmm.
Josh (24:12.535) ourselves. And so I don't think it's gatekeeping. I really like that you framed that. But it very much is just a different lens and frame of understanding, which opens a whole new door of possibilities. And that's incredibly powerful. So it's not really a matter of logic or reasoning. It's just a matter of reframing. But there's a lot of roots. And like we talked about stories, the stories we tell ourselves or the stories that really did happen to us, but then the stories we tell ourselves about what happened to us.
Britt (24:29.858) Yes.
Josh (24:41.051) And that's something I think is very powerful where, I was talking to Lisa Billiou on an interview we did just the other day and we were talking about the power of our own words, the power of taking control. And we're talking about these stories or identifying with this situation, right? These things that we don't really wanna get out of our own head. Something happened to me as a kid, therefore.
or identify that she had a lot of gut issues. She identified as being very ill. She didn't want to be this person who was in undependable or non-reliable. She didn't want to be the one who was sick, the one people had to cater to. And so these stories kind of shaped her frame of reference. They broke her, or I should say damaged her ability to be intimate with her husband. They damaged her ability to be reliable at work. And that can really, if we don't take control, sink us in what we even attempt.
to do in our lives, the things we are simply willing to walk out the door and give it a shot. If I've been rejected by girls 5,000 times and keep getting shut down, I'm much less likely to walk out and go and try to talk to somebody at the bar or at the superstore or Applebee's, wherever people pick up girls nowadays. So what are those past experiences? Call them traumas, call them PTSD, call them stories, these things that shape our vision in our future.
How do they shape what we believe is possible and how do we break free from those psychological anchors?
Britt (26:12.842) Again, it helps to know that psychological anchors exists that they're a thing. Because again, if I am completely repeating patterns of relationships, patterns of thinking and being and doing, if I don't know that my brain is organized for repetition, like our brains are designed to go on autopilot in any direction that it can. And so the brain's autopilot is like a five lane super highway and the choice that we wanna make is like this little dirt road.
We have to train ourselves to know that dirt road is there. But again, if you don't know that you have a choice, then you're not going to be able to get free from those anchors. And it's in our language. The word can't is a big one, right? Like, I can't, I just can't do it. I just can't do it. It's like, why don't you? Again, if you actually can't, that's not what I'm talking about. Like, I'm saying, what would happen if you change the word can't to the word won't? If you start to hear in your language, I just won't quit drugs. I just won't go to the gym.
I just won't immediately jolt you into, wait a second, I do have a choice here. In order to make healthy choices, we need to know that we have them. We also need to know that if we're not doing the thing we want to do, there's some science that explains that, but that doesn't mean that you can't do something different. It just means we need to take a new approach. And logic is almost never the path that gets us from our intentions to our outcomes. We know what to do. Don't smoke, don't do drugs.
Josh (27:16.394) Mm.
Britt (27:39.638) take a walk, eat some vegetables, do all of those things. The problem is not lack of knowledge. It's not lack of logic. It's that the gap between our good intention and our successful outcome is a bunch of physiological stuff that we need to, it's like having a car that you don't know how to drive. If you don't know how to drive a stick shift and you're in a car that's a manual, you're gonna have some problems and our bodies are the same.
Josh (28:03.707) So what splits the difference between those who maybe appear more tenacious or appear like the really strong ones who overcome and they have this relentless willpower and desire and then they're the people who sort of will acquiesce to their circumstance and go, oh well, there's nothing I can do. What makes a difference between somebody who appears tenacious and somebody who appears to be, we'll say stuck?
Britt (28:26.722) Sure. I mean, the short answer is I have no idea. Humans are so complex. Like who's to say that the tenacious person wasn't raised by a healthy mother in a safe environment with access to lots of resources and lots of awesome teachers and mentors and after-school activities. And the person who's stuck wasn't raised, you know, in the foster care system, being abused by multiple households. So it's really hard to categorize neatly this binary of those who do and those who don't
again, a strength or character thing. As someone who's been on both sides of this issue, as someone who did none of the things and then did lots of the things, I can say that the difference for me did come down to recognizing that I have, I may not like my choices. If my choices are to feel uncomfortable going to the gym or uncomfortable laying on the couch, I don't like that. I want the choice where I feel better doing nothing, but.
That's not one of them. As long as we believe that there is an option that's not going to cause discomfort, we're gonna take it. Like in the 12 step world, they say, the myth is that there's an easy way. Like it's hard to eat healthy. It's also hard to not eat healthy and feel terrible. It's hard to go to the gym. It's really hard to not have good cardiovascular health. It's hard to look at your finances, but it's also hard to be in debt. So if we can start with no one, and this is the thing that made the difference for me.
No one's coming to save you. Yes, we need other people. We need doctors and therapists and coaches and mentors, but no one, you cannot delegate your inner work to an outer person. As soon as you get on board with no one's coming to save you, you'll realize that's actually good news because now I'm no longer dependent on someone to magic me from here to here. It's terrible news because like, no, somebody do it for me. But it's also great news. No one's coming to save you.
That's good news, because that means you can now be empowered. You may not like your choices, but make one. Right now, your choices are be uncomfortable on the couch or be uncomfortable in the gym. I don't like those choices. I don't like them either, but that's what you got. Let's get honest about our choice points and then willingness to make one, no matter how small. Like any step in any direction gets you from stuck to unstuck. Stuck becomes unstuck the second you say yes to anything. So we need to find, I call them micro yeses.
Britt (30:45.866) You know, micro yeses are what get us from stuck to go. Micro yeses will get you out of the starting gate. Like if they're really teeny tiny, you're not gonna need to do steps that small. But we expect to have the same endorphins that runners have at mile seven when we're in the starting gate. So a micro yes will get you moving and then that momentum will carry you through the harder stuff. But we all expect it to be easy and comfortable. It's not.
Josh (31:12.371) No, it's definitely not. And there's a saying from the Marines, embrace the suck. You know, it's gonna suck exactly like you said, I've got choice A or choice B both suck. Which hard will you choose the hard that keeps you where you are or the hard that allows you to actually break free and break through. But that choice to some people can seem so helpless and so hopeless. And I'm as a coach, as a practitioner,
Britt (31:23.542) Yeah.
Josh (31:40.471) I do my best, but I have pretty terrible bedside manner. It's something my wife often will comment on. I don't come across as very empathetic. I'm very logical. I'm very reasonable. And it's exactly that. I'm like, well, you got choice A, choice B. They both suck. Pick yours and you're in charge. That's it. I'm not very good at working with people to go through those steps. So, okay, well, how do we get you unstuck? And so what are the steps that you might take somebody through?
be able to choose their heart.
Britt (32:11.702) So here's the good news for you. And I say this when I speak to companies, you don't need empathy to get people from stuck to unstuck. Like, it's just like we have so over indexed on feelings and vulnerability and authenticity. And again, I'm not saying those things are bad. I am saying we've so over indexed on that people are now stuck by feeling really loved and supported in their stuckness.
Josh (32:18.555) That is good news.
Britt (32:33.022) You don't need empathy. You don't need to be, that's so funny. I'm not anti-empathy, but I'm like a therapist saying no more empathy. Because to empathize with someone, you don't have to be mean or shamy, but I'm not gonna sit here and empower the part of you that thinks you can't do it. It's actually kinder for me to have the two by four. So the steps to get from stuck to unstuck don't require any empathy, and that's wonderful news. Step one, don't ask why you're stuck. Like the why is relevant later.
Josh (32:39.901) Hmm.
Britt (33:01.358) Why am I in this position? Does not like, doesn't move you. I went surfing for the second time two weeks ago. And you know, they teach you the techniques, they teach you the stuff. When a giant wave is about to crash on your head, you don't have space or time to ask, well, I wonder what the meteorological conditions were that created the force. It's like duck, get under your board. And so we don't wanna start with why. Start with why is a great question if you're launching a business.
Josh (33:22.669) Hehehehehehe
Britt (33:29.674) Start with why is useless if you're going from stuck to unstuck. So take your why and mark it for mile six. Why am I like this is a mile six thing. So step, this is three steps by the way. Step one, don't start with why. If you're asking why questions, just knock that off. Like it's not helpful. Why am I like this? Why is this so hard? Why can't, why is not allowed when you're getting unstuck?
Step one, no-wise. Step two, what are three micro yeses available to me right now? We all have this future version of ourself that's super motivated and does all of the things, but like we know time isn't really real. The past and the future are constructs that don't exist. So right now is where you make your choices. Not I'll go to the thing tomorrow or I'll start the thing tomorrow or I'll stop the thing tomorrow. That's not how brains work. What are you willing to do? What are three micro yeses that you are willing to do in the next...
30 seconds to 90 seconds. And if the answer is nothing, okay, well, that's where we start, then you're gonna stay stuck. But like for a fitness goal, it might be in the next 30 seconds, you're willing to at least walk to the door and then go back to the couch. So step one, toss the Y. Step two, identify three, not la la, I wish these were my choices. What are three actual micro yeses available right now? Step three, pick one, do it. Repeat.
Like that gets you unstuck.
Josh (34:55.983) It almost seems so easy, doesn't it? I know.
Britt (34:57.806) It's so frustrating. I'm like, how many years of school and how much money and hours of study and years of me damaging my body and my psyche and people around me. And it's like, really? Like pick something microscopic, do it, do it again. Yeah, and yes is the answer.
Josh (35:14.291) You know, it's funny, it's almost like running a business. People always want these big, brash, exciting things. What are the next steps I can take? What conference can I go to? Where can I fly? Who can I meet? What course can I take to like, dude, message 20 people every single day without stop, completely consistency. Do the boring stuff and your business will grow. Do the consistent boring stuff and your life will get better. Do the consistent boring stuff. Pick your hard micro yeses, easy breezy. So,
We talked a lot about all of this and I love all the conversation topics we're going over, the what's, the why's, the who's, the when's, the science, the everything. But I really want to know, because we touched on your past, we've not gotten there. We've never really addressed it. I'd love to know what inspired you to write the book, The Science of Stuck.
Britt (36:01.506) So I've always wanted to be a person who wrote a book. Like I've always been scribbling in little journals since I was a little kid. So I've always known I had a book in me. I just didn't know which one. And then it was through, you know, after going through my own personal healing journey, healing from childhood, then healing from the choices I made as an adult and reaction to that childhood and burning my life to the ground and having to start all over. Not everyone has to do it that dramatically. For me, I did.
So once I was sort of done doing that, I started writing on Instagram, just like little nuggets, things I wish someone had told me along the way. And then I looked at my Instagram one day, I'm like, oh my gosh, like there's like a whole, this is like I whiteboarded, I've like murder boarded out, like a storyboard of what would eventually become this book. The title came, I was talking to someone in the business world and she's like, well, tell me what you do like in a nutshell. I'm like, oh, I help people with the science of stuck. She's like, that's a book title.
I'm like, that's a book title. And so from there, it sort of pieced itself together. But I looked at my Instagram, I'm like, that's the book. Like, those are my notes. I just workshopped ideas in real time, shared my thoughts with the community and listened to them and built an amazing group of friends and colleagues and community members. And then it was three years of...
Josh (37:20.776) Hmm.
Britt (37:22.71) pitching literary agents and being told you are not good enough, you know, or being ignored outright and then getting an offer from my dream publisher on my wedding day. So that was cool. That was a good day.
Josh (37:33.215) What a day that is, hey? Well, can we go real deep on this one? Can we go like deep into the past, like the dark heavy stuff? Let's do it. So you've mentioned addiction, you've mentioned a cult, you mentioned all kinds of just stuff in the past that people maybe only see in movies. How does this book and these sciences apply to your own experiences?
Britt (37:55.922) That's a great question. So people ask me like why this book? This is the book that I needed because when I was you know Smoking methamphetamine and my micro yeses were don't die today or eat a yogurt because you haven't eaten in four days and you're starting to hallucinate I needed one book that didn't have the deep like I love a good deep dive. I'm a lifelong student I love to learn and I'm I analyze things for a living but when you're in the
the zone where the waves are crashing down on you. I didn't wanna have, here's my relationship book and my anxiety book and my nervous system book and all of the things. It was like, I need someone to just read it all and synthesize it all for me. So the science of stuck is not, here's Britt's take on how you should live your life. I mean, make no mistake, I've snuck that in there. But the science of stuck is largely an aggregate of what I found to be the most helpful tools, tricks.
you know, research articles, not everyone's gonna sit and read about polyvagal theory and how the vagus nerve mitigates, like, but I did. So here are what I think are the bottom line. I needed a book that was just, give me the bottom lines, no fluff. Now I've sprinkled breadcrumbs through the book. So if you want the deep dive, like you can go there. But the best compliment I ever got on the science of stuff this far, someone said to me, I don't read, I hate reading. I don't read ever. And I read your book and you're-
you know, I liked it. And then someone else said to me, your stupid brain book is now stuck in my head. And I'm like, sweet, I did my job if I have made all of this information accessible and bite-sized. Again, it's not gonna, and I say this in my disclaimer in the book, this isn't gonna magic you in 30 days to, you know, love and romance and wealth. It's like, it'll get you unstuck. Cause I have found in my clinical and personal experience, once people get unstuck,
Josh (39:20.399) I'm sorry.
Britt (39:46.382) It's really easy to pick up momentum and then compound our wins and hear ourselves and make choices. It's the starting gate where things are messy and no one does an Instagram reel of their starting gate. Everyone's showing their finish line, which good for them. I celebrate people's finish line, but it's really discouraging if you're only looking at the finish line and outcomes and not seeing for every finish, there was a really messy start.
Josh (40:10.611) Hmm. It's really important to see that there's experience. And there's two sides, I think, to be able to help people. One is theoretical, one is experiential. And the other one might be manufactured where you kind of just figure things out as you go. But you know, I don't believe a doctor needs to have cancer to become an oncologist.
But I also believe that it's important when you're dealing with life and life experience and life skills that you've either worked with thousands and thousands of people and spent hundreds of thousands of hours really learning those experiences secondhand or like yourself, you've gone through them. You did it. You beat addiction. You beat this stock. You broke through those communities. You learn how to find your own way. You learn how to break dependence to become independent, to become where you are now, to be able to help people break through.
these ruts in their lives. And I think that's a very important quality to have in any kind of coach, speaker, mentor, or author.
Britt (41:07.966) It's funny to me that I've had more people tell me they come to see me for therapy because I have a potty mouth and I drop F-bombs. They're like, I don't care about your degrees. You're a human. You're not like a therapy bot. And I think that, I mean, I don't vomit my story all over my clients, but I think it's comforting to them to know, I don't know what it's like to be you. I don't know what it's like to experience your trauma, but I know what pain feels like. And I...
Josh (41:15.233) Hahaha.
Britt (41:32.086) I'm not shocked by it. Almost nothing shocks me. Like it just doesn't happen anymore. So it's like, whatever you're coming in with, I got you. I'm not gonna sit here and be like, wait, you thought you had what thought? Like, it's like, yeah, okay. Like let's work it out.
Josh (41:47.159) intrusive thoughts happen. I think intrusive thoughts are an interesting topic because they kind of just show up. And it's what you do with them, whether you act on them, okay, like, I got Bruce sitting behind me, I'm a little 10 pound wiener dog, right? And I adore this dog. He is the best. He's absolutely my favorite. I've had dogs in the past. I never loved a dog like I love this little dog. He comes everywhere with me. Like, I'm pretty sure I have separation anxiety from my dog. Like I'm going to the UK in a couple of weeks, and
It's going to be weird leaving him here because he sleeps in the bed. He sits behind me on my podcast. He follows me around the house everywhere I go. It's not, it's weird not hearing these little nails running around the house. And so, you know, that can be very interesting. I forget where I was going with that. I'm going to have to cut this bit out. Intrusive thoughts. Thank you so much. So there's the ADHD brain, but even with this dog who I just adore, I'm on the sixth floor, sixth floor.
Britt (42:30.762) The truth is that...
Josh (42:42.811) and I walk out and have an open balcony, I'm like, what would happen if he like jumped out of my arms, if like I dropped the dog? Or like, what would happen if I just like broke my laptop in half today? What would happen if I just steered my car into oncoming? Obviously I'm not going to, I'm not a psychopath, but these intrusive thoughts happen. First of all, what the fuck are intrusive thoughts and why do they happen?
Britt (43:00.142) Okay First of all, I have done I have talked to lots of people and I have the drop the dog out the car window or off the balcony thought too And again, I got a little six-pound shit to you that I love sitting next to me But like thank you for saying that because it normalizes it. So again, I'm not gatekeeping the term. I'm reframing it This is like the nine the sixth thing Intrusive thoughts. It's like who's the intruder? It's your own brain
Josh (43:10.136) Hahaha
Britt (43:27.178) Like your brain is coming up with the thoughts, your brain is listening to the thoughts. It's like, who's the person thinking the thoughts? And if it's an intruder, what the hell are we talking about? So I do not subscribe to the, there's this demonic force that makes my brain conjure up these gruesome, like horrific types of things in my head. It's like, can it just be okay that all thoughts are free? All behaviors are not, but I try to meet those thoughts.
Josh (43:36.711) Hmm.
Britt (43:54.238) I don't call them intrusive thoughts anymore. I call them more like shadow thoughts. Like, wow, that's in there. That's in there. Like, okay. I just try to, I don't indulge those thoughts, but when they go by, I'm just like, wow, okay, that's a part of my psyche. Hey, everyone, glad you're here. If you can assume from the jump that your brain is, and I'm not talking about organic brain disease or dementia. I'm saying assuming choice, relative safety. Assume that your brain is on your side.
Josh (43:57.455) I call them asshole thoughts.
Josh (44:10.259) I'm going to go to bed.
Britt (44:20.79) which means there are no intruders in there making you think about killing your dog or driving into oncoming traffic. It's just that your brain is really complex and in a complex system there is room for light and dark, good and bad, what the actual fuck and everything aside from it. It's like cool, that's in my psyche. But when we get terrified by our minds and freaked out by these thoughts, that's when we end up
getting into these loops that are not useful. It's a lot more helpful just to be like, watch it go by and marvel in the fact that that's part of your psyche too.
Josh (44:56.075) All of a sudden this whole podcast is now going to get like a parental advisory sticker from the last five minutes here. It's interesting, you know, that's what you see on the internet lots. There's these memes that are going around. It's an intrusive thought, intrusive thought, and they feel so intrusive because it's obviously nothing I would act on. It's so atypical of my character, but they just show up once in a while. Like, oh, my brain's kind of a dick. It just kind of does this.
Britt (45:00.244) Hahaha!
Britt (45:22.294) Or your brain is just a like if you think of a curious like Curious toddler a curious child is gonna put its hand on a stove a curious child is gonna wander out into oncoming traffic Not because they're assholes, but because that's what kids do. So I really encourage and again I'm not minimizing the distress of intrusive thoughts. I understand like I've had OCD that I've dealt with I understand It's really terrifying. I'm not minimizing it
saying if you can think of your intrusive thoughts like toddlers, I'm not gonna let a toddler put their hand on a hot stove, but I'm also not gonna be like, how dare you want to touch the stove? It's a lot easier to treat these scary parts of ourselves like they're toddlers because then we can remember that choice power resides with us, the adult in charge of all of the thoughts. There's the, you know, the us that thinks the thoughts, but then there's the us that hears the thoughts.
The us that hears the thoughts, the observer, has choice power. So if a thought pops across your brain that you don't like, you don't have to do anything with it. It's a toddler running out into traffic. It's like, okay, we're not gonna do that, but back to what you were doing. Thanks for coming. It's just a lot kinder of a relationship with your psyche to think of it as a scared child rather than a demonic monster that tells you to do bad things. Like if that's a thing...
Yes, psychosis is a real thing. Yes, medication for that. But I'm just talking, most people have really fucked up thoughts pop across their consciousness. Let's normalize it. Call it, you know, shadow parts or call it little children parts. But we don't have to fear our minds.
Josh (47:02.363) Well, that's kind of encouraging. Sometimes I feel like Ralphie from The Simpsons. Like, there's a leprechaun who tells me to burn things. You're like, maybe don't do that.
Britt (47:12.446) Eliza Schlesinger is a stand-up comedian who I love and she calls it her party goblin or her party gremlin party goblin Oh, yeah The little part that sits at the base of her skull and is like loves vodka and then comes out and makes Crazy choices or whatnot. We all have that part of our psyche. So rather than fight it or fear it Why don't we be friend it because the leprechaun that tells me to burn everything down? I have that part too. But if I'm like, hey little buddy
Tell me about yourself. You often find that your mind's a really interesting place that you don't have to be afraid of.
Josh (47:46.311) Hmm, I like that.
Britt (47:48.222) I say that as someone who was terrorized by my own mind for a very long time before not. I wish someone had told me you don't have to be afraid of your mind.
Josh (47:57.327) I'd love to ask about that. And you can, I'll send you a bill for the psychological consultation after for sure. What do you say? Terrorized by your mind, what do you mean?
Britt (48:08.13) You suck, you should kill yourself. You know, you're fat, no one will love you. You're a piece of shit. And you telling me that I did things that I didn't do. Cause often childhood sexual trauma survivors will have an OCD loop that they're going to become a perpetrator. That's a thing. And it's like, oh my God, I'm terrified that I will do something bad. And it's like, that's what trauma does. Anything that's been inflicted upon us will often create this loop of could this be me?
Josh (48:09.996) Hmm.
Britt (48:35.134) and some OCD symptoms, like I'm gonna go crazy, and there's no such thing as crazy, by the way, all symptoms make sense in context. But the fear of I'm gonna do something bad, I'm gonna say something bad, is often, again, a result of our bodies like to replicate what it's experienced so that we can understand our origin story. Our bodies go to great lengths to communicate our origin stories when our logic brain likes to shush all of that stuff away. So.
Yeah, you don't have to fear your minds, even when it does weird things.
Josh (49:06.659) I like that. And I think it adds a really interesting context to things in the way of rewriting our stories. Are you familiar, I'm sure, in what you do, the definition or the difference between shame and guilt, right, where shame, like guilt is I did something wrong. Shame says I am wrong. And we start to beat ourselves up and then we're terrorized by our mind and all these stressors, these low grade intrinsic stressors.
Not only do they lead to obviously being stuck in wherever we are, not getting out of our own way, self-sabotaging or, you know, like we talked about earlier, but we put ourselves into these spaces where we could have the power if we just look through a different lens and reframe it to finally break through, get rid of these low grade stressors. And I was talking to another fellow, it's Ryan Carter. We did a podcast on ancestral wellness and we talked about the difference between, what was it there?
We're talking about the difference between stressors, say a thousand years ago or 5,000 years ago versus today. Then it was quick, it was acute, run from the bear, run from the saber-toothed tiger, go find the food, come home, relax. Now we have all these low-grade, chronic, incessant, insidious stressors that just slowly eat away at our soul until our minds are so broken down, we're so sick, we're chronically inflamed, we're not digesting very well, we're not sleeping very well.
We get moody, it throws off our hormones. We have new diseases now that we've never had before. Yes, in part for pesticides and food production and chemicals and artificial flavorings and food dyes and all that stuff. But there's also these chronic low-grade stresses that just eat away our physical body.
Britt (50:51.314) All true. And as you were talking, it occurred to me that not only do we habitually fight ourselves in our own minds, and when our bodies are not well, we're very quick to fight with our body. And again, not minimizing the pain of having a chronic illness or an autoimmune thing or whatever, but like, again, I've learned with IBS.
I don't enjoy I don't have flare ups very often. It's once every few years. It's when I and they always happen when I don't do the things I know I do to stay well. But I have learned when I am like, fetal position on the floor of my bathroom sweating and shaking and feeling like my intestines are coming out of me. I have learned to be with my body instead of I hate that my body does it's like, Oh my god, body, I'm so sorry that you're going through this.
I know that I have not been treating you very well. No shame, just naming it like you would with a kid, right? Like again, parents and kids, if a kiddo scrapes their knee, loving parents not gonna say, bad knee, bad scrape. It's gonna kiss, you kiss the boo boo, right? That's what good loving parents do. So I've heard. So like, why are we not doing the same thing with our physical symptoms? You know, like I...
Josh (51:44.891) Mm.
Britt (52:04.214) broke my toe in July and it was really frustrating and annoying. And at first it's like, goddamn, the stupid bloody, it's like, oh, toe, I am so sorry that happened to you. And there are physiological ramifications to shaming ourselves. When we yell at ourselves, we increase our cortisol, which then increases inflammation, which is going to then make anything you have 10 times worse. So this isn't just this rah rah, be nice to yourself. It's like, no, there are physical implications of self-soothing.
self-compassionate self-talk. It does, again, I'm not a physician, but just logically, if I'm not speaking to myself in a way that's gonna create inflammation, that means I'm now partnering in my own health. And that could be a micro yes. Your micro yes might be, you don't say I hate that my body does this. You can say, I hate that this is happening. You can say, I hate the way that I feel, but your body's on your side.
Josh (52:57.626) One more time, Britt, just before you start wrapping things up here, can you run us through the quick bullet points of the three steps?
Britt (53:04.022) Yeah, I call them the three steps to unstuck. Step one, don't start with why. Step two, identify three micro yeses available to you in the next 30 seconds to 90 seconds. Step three, pick one, do it. And then here's the caveat. You can't beat the crap out of yourself for doing it. It's like, oh yeah, great. I took a walk around the block or I went to the door, but like, it's not like I ran the five miles. What's wrong with me? If you shame yourself, you've now completely erased the benefit of the mic. The micro yes needs to get banked.
And all that looks like is cool. I said yes to something. Let me do another one. And let me do another one. So step one, no wise. Step two, identify three micro yeses. Step three, do one. And then bank that win and watch how fast that creates a life.
Josh (53:48.795) We do really have to treat ourselves like children. I mean, if a child is learning how to draw for the first time or learning how to walk, right? The drawing sucks. They walk and they fall. You don't go, you're stupid. You couldn't walk the whole living room. You couldn't draw a picture of this dog. It looks like a cat with spikes out of its back. Like, no, you go, well, that was a very good first job. Let's see what you can do next.
Britt (53:51.297) Yeah.
Britt (54:10.626) Yeah.
Josh (54:11.983) And if we can have that same compassion for ourselves when we're doing something new, even though others might be doing it already, or you've seen somebody else do it, or worse yet, we compare ourselves to social media, which really is the top 1% or less, because that's what we're shown in highlights, then we can actually have some room to grow and improve ourselves. I think that's lovely.
Britt (54:30.91) It's so true. It's so true. I love that so and the whole like, you know, I started my career as a play therapist, not because I love children, but I had a hunch that if I could understand how children interact with the world, I would understand how to be part of my own healing. And it sounds simple, but it's not if you could treat yourself with the same care you would treat a child, you're not going to cosign Oh, well, you can just do whatever you want. Like that's not self loving, like
Children need limits and boundaries and discipline. It's loving to give a child limits and boundaries and discipline. But you don't have to yell at a kid to set a boundary. You don't have to shame yourself to make a change. And like you said, I love that you said that it's the paradox of I'm gonna love myself right where I'm at, and I'm gonna not be content to stay here. I'm gonna show up again and I'm gonna do another draft and I'm gonna show up for another mile and enough reps that does start to build health and wellness.
Josh (55:13.043) Mm.
Josh (55:25.803) I love it. Well, Britt, my last question to you, is there anything, I know we just got a couple of minutes here, is there anything we haven't talked about yet or anything we haven't mentioned? Open table, open floor, what would you like to say to the audience?
Britt (55:39.786) Oof. I'll say anxiety is the check engine light of the car. I don't like it either, but we need it. If you don't have a check engine light or a smoke alarm, how are you going to know if there's a problem? So anxiety is a problem, but it's not the problem. I am not helping myself by disabling the check engine light on my car. If we can treat anxiety like a signal instead of a symptom, then we might get to solutions faster.
And the thing I'd leave people with is, wherever you are is not, you do not have to stay stuck to the degree that you have choices and willingness, then we can make huge changes. Or even a little change when you're really stuck can feel like life. So stuck is not a reality of how our brains are wired. You do not have to stay there.
Josh (56:24.431) I love it. Well, thank you so much. Now, Britt, if somebody wants to learn more about you or wants to reach you or get in touch with you or work with you, how can they do that?
Britt (56:33.898) Yeah, you can find me on Instagram, where I also compare myself to everyone and feel bad periodically. So it's just at Brit Frank, or you can find me on my website, scienceofstuck.com, and you can buy the book wherever you buy books.
Josh (56:37.8) Hahaha
Josh (56:45.983) I love it. Well, Brit, thank you so much for your time, your generosity with all your expertise, your life experience, your knowledge, everything. It's been a pleasure having you here.
Britt (56:55.842) Thank you so much.
Josh (56:58.119) I'm just going to press that record here button right there.