The TV Dudes: Hey, it's Les from the TV Dudes! Our latest episode has a special treat for you – an exclusive interview with the incredible Melissa Bernstein, the renowned producer behind hit shows like "Breaking Bad", "Better Call Saul", and "Halt and Catch Fire"! Recorded live at the ATX Television Festival Season 13, Melissa shares behind-the-scenes insights, her journey in the industry, and what it's like to work on some of the most iconic series of our time. It's a great chat, and I hope you enjoy.
INTRO MUSIC
TVD: So I'm Les from the TV dudes. Do you mind introducing yourself?
Melissa Bernstein: I'm Melissa Bernstein, an executive producer on Hal and Catch Fire.
TVD: So we just all got to see the Halt and Catch fire panel, uh, which if y'all had group bugged at the end, it would not have been shocking that so much love on the stage. And you can tell how, how special the memory of its book feels. Um, talking to Toby about the time the actors gotta rehearse that, that's not a thing, was TV very often. Do you as a, that support, did, did that come down from AMC? Was that, how did that develop to you? You've got new showrunners, there are also new writers. You've got this whole thing. It's happening in Atlanta, the offices in la
MB: I mean, I think it was largely like the chemistry of the individuals, you know, this Chris the Chrises were new, but like, so, um, open and excited about what the, the story they were telling. Like they were ready to listen, ready to take on board, uh, the opinions of their producers, of their network, of their cast, of their department heads, but like also had knew the story they wanted to tell. And it, you're always sort of striking that balance is you have to listen, but you can only, you should only really take on board the things that make the show better. And they both just very naturally were good at that. Um, they were, you know, trusting and, um, you know, let the directors like, you know, find their way in terms of the way they wanted to tell the story. So they were dictated to episode by episode. You know, we were really able to bring on directors and let them, um, tell the story visually the way they wanted to tell it, you know, and, and of course like we would do our, our job to make sure the episodes connected to one another and, um, narratively made sense, but that the episodes and the stories could have individual feeling to them. Um, and the cast, I mean, what a special group. Like they, they did these, their read-throughs that they did. Yes. I mean, such a special thing. And I had the, um, privilege of attending one or two of them, and I just, and, and like Carrie said at the panel, like it, initially it was like kind of panic inducing, like, it was like, oh no, they're going to get together and they're gonna take everything apart. And we're gonna have pages and pages and pages of notes and like, how are we going to deal with that? And it was a hundred percent the wrong attitude to have. And watching them do what, just what she said, which is like, oh, you don't, you don't like that. I love that line for your character. I like defending the, like, investing in and defending the scripts and the storylines from an artistic point of view and helping each other see the show, you know, through sort of a, a balanced perspective, which, you know, like doesn't have to be the process because you know, everybody, it, when you're telling a story, oh, it's like I only have access to my own thoughts and ideas, but like, their process naturally sort of embraced the other characters' ideas and points of view. And I think the show is better for it. And like, we didn't ask them to do that. They, you know, it was something they, they saw to and prioritize themselves and it, it, I think it made for magic.
TVD: I mean, I'm biased, I just got done talking to them, but I feel like that's something that's either in a person or not, that you, you've written something that feels like your baby, but television's collaborative and screenplays are a collaborative document, you can't protect it to death, but it, but like you said, you can't let it be everything to everybody Yeah. As a producer on any project. Um, are there, are there moments when, you know, we've got enough elements and I'm pretty sure we have something, is there, is there any telltale sign that you look for of, of like, I need to check up on that might be about to explode? Or, or I can relax a little bit if these things are good?
MB: Yeah, I mean, it's, so much of it is just like a gut experience, but like, you do wanna sit back and observe and see what the, um, like how people are relating to one another, how they're rising to meet the challenges, what, um, what problems seem to be arising, what the patterns are. Mm-Hmm. . And you try to see are there patterns that are, are really, um, concerning and are they, and are they, you know, like, is it, are they coming? Are the same issues coming up again and again with the same group of people? Um, but on this show, part of it, I, I really do think was that Chris is being new at it. Like they were just, they didn't come with a whole bunch of fears about how it can go wrong because they didn't know. They didn't know how it could go wrong. So they weren't worried about, you know, making the wrong step. They just were operating from a place of like, uh, taking people at their word and, and trying to make things work. So, um, I and the, and I, to me, it's just like you read it on the page and does it move you? Does it, are you, do you continue to think about it? Does it stick with you? And then when you're watching on set, like, are you gripped, are you leaning into the conversation? Like, because if you're in a place where you're like, oh, we're just gonna have to, um, put this together in post, like we're, if, if you're feeling like you're gonna have to manufacture a scene after the fact, that would be very, very alarming. And that was just never the case. Like, watching these actors work and watching them make their choices and some of them surprising choices, you could see there was magic there.
TVD: I know obviously television stories have to still be exciting for you or you, you wouldn't get up and do your job. Yeah. But at the same time, I know your job is just like even being a critic, it changes how you watch. And, and I'm sure for you, you, you know how the sausage was made. You, you know what that means. You lighting did that or crossing you that. Were there any moments during Halt and Catch Fire or, or Breaking Bad, anything that you're working on? Um, have there been moments where it pulled you back to just being a viewer where you, where you watch the surprising act of choice and you just feel like you're watching it?
MB: All the time. I mean, it, it's why I do it. It's why I love it. Like, that happens all the time when you're sitting and you just feel like, oh my God, I'm so lucky I get to watch this scene take place in real-time. Like, I am getting a front seat, you know, a front row seat at a theater performance between some of the best actors in the world, you know, who are, um, experimenting and taking chances and like trusting in each other, trusting in their directors, trusting in their writers, and like, um, and, uh, leaning into the incredible art or costumes and like, and seeing that happen. Like, and, and really seeing it happen live. I mean, there's nothing, it's such a privilege. Like, I, I'll never, I don't think I'll ever get over that. And if I do, I'm probably in the wrong job at that point.
TVD: Yeah. I, I've only gotten to be on a few sets and it's always just, it feels like the magic factory. It could be, could be impossible to tell if I'm good or bad because it always feels good generally. Yeah. You know? Yeah. As long as nobody's yelling at each other, like that just feels like you're making magic.
MB: It's, I feel like you always have to be like, this is, you're gonna see the same thing playing out a hundred times from one direction and the other direction, and then you're gonna feel like you've already seen it from that direction and that you've already been going around in a circle. I feel like it's all about like, managing it whenever anybody comes. Not you, you're like, you're inside the circle, but like any visitors, you have to like really manage expectations about what you're gonna see, you know? Right. And how many times you're gonna see it.
TVD: Um, do you feel like there is any one thing that you make sure to do for your projects to help them go well?
MB: Uh, that's a great question. Um, I, I mean, I think trying to create safe spaces, um, for, for crew members and cast members to be able to, um, express their concerns. Like, I think, and, and to feel like nobody's gonna lose their job. Um, nobody's gonna think you're a complainer. Like we need to, as we march through this process together, it needs to be safe and it needs, and like, 'cause a safe environment is going to yield better creative results. So I think really trying to think, um, the processes through with that in mind too. If it feels like, oh, this is going to be a really vulnerable situation for somebody. Like if it's a love scene, like how do we, how do we support that? Like how do, like, and um, and a lot of, or does this scene require rehearsal? Does this scene require a close set? Um, you know, does this scene require tech research? Does this require a consultant? Like how can we give the actors or the department heads the confidence to do their best work.
TVD: I mean, it's 2024, it feels like so much of the world has changed in, in the last five, 10 years, with AI and so many just, I dunno. Has that changed your job? Are you still doing the same 'I support stories being made' role, or do you feel like your day-to-day job has changed?
MB: Uh, not yet. I don't, I feel like my day-to-day job is the same. I think there are things though, I mean, I'm seeing it creep in, you know, like there are things that can be accomplished in post that, you know, that are, you are all of a sudden like, wow...
TVD: I did not know you could adjust lighting like that in post. Yeah. Not possible three years ago.
MB: Yeah. Or, or take somebody's voice and make it sound a certain way. And like, I think, um, because of this moment in time, I'm doing my very best to be really vigilant and to not, and if it, if it feels like something that, that is, um, crossing some kind of line or is on a slippery slope, I like my, I'd rather just like seal it off, you know, and, and figure out another way around. Uh, problem.
TVD: It's, I think that's, that speaks to that safety. You don't wanna do anything that's gonna make someone you're working with feel like they can't trust your decisions. Yes. Or, or that, you know, looking out for them.
MB: That's exactly, that's exactly right. Like, I think you need to feel like these decisions you make behind closed doors are decisions that would be okay on the front page of a newspaper. You know, I
TVD: Did not mean this to tie to it, but I think of the click that we watched in the panel of, um, Donna having lied to, uh, Cameron, Cameron and, and being sure that she was doing what was best, but it was also a lot. And, and
MB: I'm saying it Yeah. How she says "It felt true at the time."
TVD: Yeah. Yeah.
MB: I mean, I think that's what makes the show really great, is the two perspectives. Like there, it was never, it never felt binary. It felt like, you know, there wasn't right and wrong. There were human beings making decisions upon decisions upon decisions. And that creates complexity. And, and being able to look at that complexity and unpack that complexity, and that was kind of what the show was about. You know, like, that's kind of insane minutia, but like, it seems worthy of our contemplation.
TVD: You know? No, it's a show about messy people in an industry where things make sense. I plug this into this and it does that and, and, and life makes sense. And then everything else is just organic and messy. And she was putting holes in walls and, uh, I, I'm old enough that we bought a bad car for a high school pep rally and destroyed it. Like I, I've paid a dollar to just total a car. I don't think they do that anymore. But, uh, I also grew up near Dallas.
MB: Did you really? Oh, wow.
TVD: So there was, there was definitely moments in the show of like, wow, I, that doesn't exist anymore. Like, I know that place doesn't exist anymore. How does it work like this?
MB: Isn't that an amazing thing about Chris Cantwell? I mean, both of them to some extent, but Cantwell, 'cause of the Dallas...
TVD: He spoke about accidentally recreating or unconsciously at least recreating his dad's office and like, I can't imagine walking on set into that...
MB: Those are young men that are just old souls. Like, their wells run so deep that you're, you feel like they're not, like they're, I don't know, there's a tie to the past for them that feels so substantial and, and, and like eyes that I want to look at the world through and, you know, I just, they're eyes that it's a point of view that I, I admire and I think it, again, what makes this show so great and the fact that like it was two of them. You know, like sort of pushing each other to, um, answer each question in a more nuanced and elevated way.
TVD: You helped make a show that has some of the best arcs I've ever seen. Just real moments that coincided with my life at the right time. I lost a close friend during season four and, and then watched Gordon... And it was a story I needed. Thank you.
MB: Yeah. Thank you!
OUTRO MUSIC