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People wanna believe their horse
is complete individual, again,

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to abdicate blame for why they
aren't doing what they want.

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Everyone says they want the
truth, but what happens when

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someone actually tells it?

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Carl Cook is a top level show
jumper, Olympic medalist, an

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innovator, and a rider who doesn't
play by the industry's rules.

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He's blunt, he's curious, and he's
not here to sell you shortcuts.

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In this episode, Carl shares why we chase
the wrong solutions, ignore the basics,

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and spend money in all the wrong places.

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Why we avoid the hard fixes?

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The discipline.

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We lack the balance issues we won't face.

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The simple changes that would
actually move the needle and why

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we tell ourselves the same story.

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My horse is just different.

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A story that helps us dodge responsibility
from building his own bits to

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tracking every detail of horse care.

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Carl's not chasing what's easy.

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He's chasing what works.

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Dear Horse world, it's Carl Cook.

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Carl, welcome to the
Dear Horse World Podcast.

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It's

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great to be here.

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I am so happy you're here.

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I'm gonna tell you my nickname
for you, the Mad Scientist.

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I mean, the first word works

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okay?

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So I'm gonna explain to everyone
who's listening and watching why

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I call you the Mad Scientist.

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So over the years watching and.

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Getting to know you.

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I used to, when I would come to
the shows a lot, you'd pull me in

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sometimes to the barn or into the, the
alleyway, and you'd show me something

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really cool that you were working on.

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And I've always really admired that
kind of innovative mind that you have.

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So I wanted to ask you, what are the
latest and greatest innovations products,

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things that you're building, testing,
trying, that we might not know about yet?

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Yeah.

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So what am I working on now?

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Um, yeah, I released a new bit, um,
last year, which I'm really proud of.

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I designed a couple years back.

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Um, didn't really plan
on releasing it, but.

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You know, the opportunity came about.

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We have some new versions of
it coming, coming out soon.

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I have a new bridal coming out,
um, that's taken a while, um, to

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get to where we can actually, you
know, have production of inequality.

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I made some studs for some of my
horses, uh, that are lighter weight.

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Um, and, you know, trying to
take that element out of things.

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There's also work on trying to add
sensors, uh, when you ride, not

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in the saddle as or on the girth,
you know, there's plenty of those.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, but they don't really
tell you anything actionable.

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Uh, they give you data, which
is cool, like cool, but it

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only, it's only distraction.

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Uh, a lot of it because it's not
connected to more actionable stuff.

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Um.

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So I've put tension sensors on
my reins and on my stirrups,

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and I use them for training.

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Uh, and then those could help some of
the data points from some of the other

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sensors, but you kind of need those
actionable items, your reins in your

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stirs, because that's all we talk about.

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You know, when we ride is, oh, you, you
know, you were too late to sit up and

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pull the reins to get that line done.

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Or you yanked your horse off the
floor or you were, you had all

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your weight in your right stirrup.

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That's, you know, common conversation.

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And these will confirm or deny
that it will tell you exactly how

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much time it took you to pull.

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It'll tell you, did you actually yank or
were you actually have all your weight in

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your right stir or was, were you balanced?

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So you can actually just be more accurate
with your analysis of your rounds.

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Okay.

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This is really cool.

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I kind of wanna dive into this
because you are doing something that

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we've never been able to do before.

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Yeah,

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technology allows for what
you're talking about, it

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allowed for 15 years ago,

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but not 50 years ago.

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Well, no, but this is just an
application of technology that we have.

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It's nothing new, it's just a
application that no one's tried,

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I think outside of a, a lab maybe.

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So why you're taking the oppo, the
ability for technology to accumulate data.

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Why is data important to someone like you?

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I think data informs decisions.

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Um, and we have our feeling in
our sport and we use that as data

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right now 'cause it's what we have.

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Um, and some people are more accurate
than others, but I think there are

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things that you can benefit from if
you actually have more objective data.

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You know, like we spoke about years
ago, the footing measuring, you know,

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tension measuring in your reigns and your
stirrups is a great continuance of that.

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And it just helps inform your decisions.

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You know, if you think you made a
mistake, but then the data shows you

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didn't make the mistake, you thought,
well, then you made a different

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mistake that you have to go figure out.

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But if you thought you made a mistake
that you didn't make, you'll go

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down that road of fixing a mistake
that you didn't actually make.

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Yeah.

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And then you're like, why
am I not getting better?

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Well, you're trying to fix
something that wasn't broken.

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Do you feel like what you're,
this is a, to me, what reminds me

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of is you're speaking of the, is
the contrast or the, the conflict

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between subjectivity and objectivity?

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I don't think they're in conflict.

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I think they're critical.

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I think it's important that people have
really well developed subjective feel.

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Um, and I think it's important
for objectivity to fill in

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where it's most well suited.

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I think if we then get to a point
where young riders are riding off

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of data and they're not actually
thinking, and they're not actually

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feeling, they won't be able to
communicate at all what they're feeling.

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They'll just look at a screen and
be like, oh, I did it perfect.

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And that's, that's wrong.

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You know, should you pull
more with your Right, right.

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Or your left, right.

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I don't know.

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Maybe.

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But if your goal is always to be even
sometimes you need to have asymmetry.

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Mm-hmm.

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And if you're right off of
just the data, you will fail.

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And so it's important that the
objectivity is just a sub, uh, supplement,

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um, to confirm or deny, um, your
feeling and your trainer's feeling,

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or your team, that sort of thing.

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It kind of reminds me of.

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The, what you're talking about, the
importance of subjectivity, the importance

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of field, the importance of being able to
apply data, but the also the ability to

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collect data kind of feels like where art
and science meet when it comes to horses.

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I don't know if art's the right term.

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I think it, I think it, I hate the term,
but it's the best term is it's your feel.

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Mm. You, you know, you, you know,
I can know, I can get data that

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shows that I pull more with my left.

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Right.

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Doing a right to left change
than a left to right change.

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Okay, cool.

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Which one is correct?

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Well, that's where your fuel comes in
that says, oh, I think the stickiness

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on my right to left change is maybe due
to a preexisting injury that we know of

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and that affects the gait a certain way.

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Or if the horse isn't rotating his,
his neck to the left, that's why

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I'm pulling more with my left reign.

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That can mean he doesn't want to
compress the left side or he doesn't

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want to extend the right side.

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And that compression would, on
the left side would mean that

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it could be these structures.

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Extension on the right side would
mean these other structures.

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And so that's where your knowledge and
your feel and your experience comes in.

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Mm-hmm.

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The brain tension data just tells you
something, you know, very basic, but you

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have to fill that in with the rest of your
experience and your team's experience.

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So, let's talk a little bit
about this bit and the bridal.

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First of all, what did you see in the
market that didn't exist and why you

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wanted to create something unique to you?

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I didn't want to.

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You didn't?

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No, I, you know, you only
create things outta necessity.

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You don't create them 'cause
they're already there.

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I had a specific need for something and
nothing that existed could fill that need.

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I have a deep bit box.

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Trust me, I, nothing could fill
that need and I. Had an idea of

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combining two different bits in a
way that hasn't been done before.

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And it ended up working
and I used that bit a lot.

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I show one of my horses,
I've shown a in it for years.

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And, um, it accomplished
the goal I wanted for it.

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And that was the whole thing.

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That was the end.

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I had a need.

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I filled it with a bit.

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And then down the road I, you
know, I met, met someone who

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could help produce the bit.

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'cause I thought it could
be useful for other people.

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Hmm.

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Because I have a couple other
bits that I've had designed

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for, again, a need for me.

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But that use case is so narrow.

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Mm. And you need to really know what
you're doing to get the benefit of it.

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Mm-hmm.

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Where this one, I think is you can
get the benefit from it a lot simpler.

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And I thought it could
help a lot of people.

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'cause that need, I
feel is more widespread.

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And people don't know that they need it.

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They just know that they're
struggling with something.

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Um, and I believe this bit can help.

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What is that need?

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It's a bridge between apel and a swale.

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Everyone knows what a plum is.

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I think like two thirds to three quarters
of all show jumping horses go in a pellum.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, it's great 'cause it
keeps the horse stable.

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Mm-hmm.

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But by doing so, it makes
it kind of just dull.

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Um, I frankly can't ride in a
pellum 'cause it's too dull.

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I can't turn, I can't do all
these things that you need to do.

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It's just too dull.

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It's just ugh.

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Um, but it makes the horse stable,
which is great, you know, and

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that stability can really help
riders who need that stability.

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Um, but sometimes horses are just
so dull on it, on the other side.

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On as Wale it's great 'cause it can
make courses really, really light.

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The problem is horses need to
have some weight on the bit, on

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the final approach to a fence.

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And as Wale oftentimes that final
approach, when the horses load your

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hands, they'll, they'll pop off the bit.

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Hmm.

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Um, because they want to load.

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And the bit is not letting 'em load.

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00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,080
Not because it's aggressive,
it's just how it works.

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00:11:04,350 --> 00:11:09,720
So what I did is I, the, my bit is a
combination of a pal, the strengths of a

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pal, and the activity of a, of a swale.

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00:11:13,050 --> 00:11:18,090
So it's, you have the stability, but
you also have more, you know, a more

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dynamic feel than you ever get with a pal.

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Cool.

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Why do horses, I think that a lot
of people listening might wanna

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want me to ask this question.

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Why do horses need to load
on the bit before they jump?

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00:11:29,490 --> 00:11:30,540
I think it loads their body.

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00:11:30,630 --> 00:11:32,640
I think it's like, it's
like loading a rubber band.

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00:11:32,645 --> 00:11:32,815
Mm-hmm.

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You know, if you just take a loose rubber
band, it's not gonna fly across the room.

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00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:36,090
Mm-hmm.

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00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,650
You know, that, that load is
like loading up a rubber band.

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And I think it's just that simple.

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00:11:43,710 --> 00:11:44,460
You, you know, you, it.

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00:11:45,225 --> 00:11:47,775
It'd be like saying jump,
but don't bend your knees.

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00:11:47,985 --> 00:11:48,195
Yeah.

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That's, I think, a
really cool explanation.

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00:11:50,445 --> 00:11:54,195
Um, 'cause a lot of the people, a
lot of our listeners are deep, deep,

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00:11:54,195 --> 00:11:57,255
deep in the jump in the world of
jumping and then, and some aren't.

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So I think it's a really cool opportunity.

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The biomechanics that happen when
horses jump over fences, especially

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00:12:02,415 --> 00:12:06,555
at the height that they jump with you,
is a really exciting thing to witness.

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00:12:06,825 --> 00:12:10,575
And I think when you dive into the
biomechanics, the balance aspects of

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it, the angles, it's really interesting.

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00:12:12,375 --> 00:12:16,070
We did a little bit of that when we talked
with, when Nikki Hinson came in mm-hmm.

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00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:17,565
To the EPIs into the studio.

235
00:12:17,565 --> 00:12:19,125
It was really cool to talk about it.

236
00:12:19,845 --> 00:12:20,115
Okay.

237
00:12:20,115 --> 00:12:22,005
So let's, so we've touched on the bit.

238
00:12:22,005 --> 00:12:22,815
Do you have a name for the bit?

239
00:12:23,444 --> 00:12:24,435
We call it a s Swum.

240
00:12:24,735 --> 00:12:26,475
So it's a combination
of a s sw and a pellum.

241
00:12:26,745 --> 00:12:26,835
Nice.

242
00:12:27,015 --> 00:12:32,265
I thought about naming it something
unique, but it was already new and, you

243
00:12:32,265 --> 00:12:34,365
know, didn't want to confuse people.

244
00:12:34,365 --> 00:12:35,235
Mm-hmm.

245
00:12:35,236 --> 00:12:38,265
Um, I want just to be, make sense to 'em.

246
00:12:38,355 --> 00:12:38,715
So

247
00:12:38,985 --> 00:12:39,345
cool.

248
00:12:39,675 --> 00:12:39,825
Yeah.

249
00:12:40,335 --> 00:12:40,875
The bridal.

250
00:12:42,030 --> 00:12:43,020
Just a leather bridle.

251
00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:44,760
Well, you're really selling it, girl.

252
00:12:45,570 --> 00:12:49,770
No, I mean, there's all these new
bridals where it relieves pull pressure

253
00:12:49,770 --> 00:12:54,720
or it moves the cheek piece so it
doesn't pinch on a nerve that's there.

254
00:12:55,410 --> 00:12:56,850
You know, all of this stuff.

255
00:12:58,020 --> 00:13:03,600
First of all, people will put on a
bridle that doesn't put pull pressure,

256
00:13:03,930 --> 00:13:07,140
but in that, there's so many more straps
around the cheeks and around the horse's

257
00:13:07,140 --> 00:13:09,390
face, and then they put on a pellum.

258
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,630
A pellum is designed
to apply pull pressure.

259
00:13:13,530 --> 00:13:17,460
It's design is literally based
around applying pull pressure.

260
00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,720
So if you're complaining that your
horse is sensitive to pull pressure,

261
00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:23,610
yet you were required to use a pellum.

262
00:13:24,705 --> 00:13:27,855
Or a gag or any of
that, it makes no sense.

263
00:13:28,250 --> 00:13:31,815
You, you know, and also people
with tighter nose bands, any

264
00:13:31,815 --> 00:13:34,515
tension in the nose band puts
downward pressure on the pole.

265
00:13:34,755 --> 00:13:37,155
Whether it's because the horse is
opening their mouth against the

266
00:13:37,155 --> 00:13:40,665
nose band, or because you put a
tight nose band, it doesn't matter

267
00:13:40,725 --> 00:13:42,615
any nose band tension mm-hmm.

268
00:13:42,915 --> 00:13:43,995
Puts downward pressure.

269
00:13:44,145 --> 00:13:45,105
And anyone can do this.

270
00:13:45,255 --> 00:13:51,105
Just put your bridal on, put your hand
underneath, uh, the crown piece mm-hmm.

271
00:13:51,525 --> 00:13:53,175
And twist the nose band.

272
00:13:53,355 --> 00:13:56,685
So you're slowly tightening it and you
will feel downward pressure on your hand.

273
00:13:57,375 --> 00:14:03,585
So all this anti pull pressure
stuff, I think maybe 0.1% of

274
00:14:03,585 --> 00:14:04,965
the time it's actually needed.

275
00:14:05,475 --> 00:14:10,395
I think the rest of the time it's be,
it's used as a cover so people don't

276
00:14:10,395 --> 00:14:12,045
have to actually fix the problem.

277
00:14:12,255 --> 00:14:15,315
I have never had a horse
with a pul pressure problem.

278
00:14:15,915 --> 00:14:21,855
I know every horse is unique and a
special flower, but I also don't really.

279
00:14:23,310 --> 00:14:31,620
Sh like I can't think of one
horse that I ride in that their

280
00:14:31,620 --> 00:14:35,640
show bridal a prize pull pressure
except for Car Cole with Hack More.

281
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:36,900
That's the only one.

282
00:14:36,959 --> 00:14:37,050
Mm-hmm.

283
00:14:37,380 --> 00:14:43,680
Um, again, I'm not saying it's impossible,
I'm just saying it's used as a to abdicate

284
00:14:44,699 --> 00:14:46,110
blame for what's actually happening.

285
00:14:46,410 --> 00:14:50,699
Um, but more than that, I
think a lot of the bridals

286
00:14:50,699 --> 00:14:52,410
nowadays are just really cheap.

287
00:14:53,220 --> 00:14:56,010
Even if you spend a lot on them,
just 'cause you spent a lot doesn't

288
00:14:56,010 --> 00:14:57,449
mean that they're well made.

289
00:14:57,810 --> 00:15:00,150
You know, you'll pick one up
and it'll smell like chemicals.

290
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,620
Well that's because it's not vegetable
tanned and it's chromium tanned in

291
00:15:04,620 --> 00:15:07,350
like Bangladesh and they don't last.

292
00:15:07,380 --> 00:15:08,760
And people just accept that.

293
00:15:10,860 --> 00:15:14,819
And I wanted to make a bridal that
works, that has better leather,

294
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:21,689
that works better, and you know, if
you clean it moderately correctly.

295
00:15:21,975 --> 00:15:23,175
Will last a long time.

296
00:15:24,075 --> 00:15:28,515
Um, and we tie everything together so the
bridal matches and it's made out of the

297
00:15:28,515 --> 00:15:30,705
same leather as the Martin Gale made out.

298
00:15:30,705 --> 00:15:34,305
It matches the reins, it matches,
you know, so the whole thing

299
00:15:34,305 --> 00:15:35,835
looks to, you know, correct.

300
00:15:36,045 --> 00:15:40,575
Instead of having these mixed matched
pieces that just don't look right.

301
00:15:41,085 --> 00:15:41,235
Yeah.

302
00:15:41,235 --> 00:15:45,825
I mean, as a kid I remember using
electrical tape or zip ties or you, you

303
00:15:45,825 --> 00:15:50,115
know, whatever you could have, or you,
you know, you put on a different nose

304
00:15:50,115 --> 00:15:53,535
band, but you didn't have that nose
band in the bridal that the bridal was.

305
00:15:53,535 --> 00:15:57,375
So you put that on, but it's doesn't
match at all, and it looks ugly.

306
00:15:57,375 --> 00:16:02,115
So, you know, we're just trying to
make use go leather that people don't

307
00:16:02,115 --> 00:16:05,475
use and use because it's expensive.

308
00:16:07,005 --> 00:16:08,085
But for me, it's worth it.

309
00:16:08,085 --> 00:16:11,595
And I don't like designing
something I know is gonna fail

310
00:16:12,225 --> 00:16:13,425
in a certain period of time.

311
00:16:13,845 --> 00:16:14,715
It's more profitable.

312
00:16:14,985 --> 00:16:16,605
It's way more profitable.

313
00:16:16,665 --> 00:16:16,905
Yep.

314
00:16:17,180 --> 00:16:21,200
But that's, that's not hard.

315
00:16:21,390 --> 00:16:21,449
Yeah.

316
00:16:22,050 --> 00:16:25,020
And it's not fun to design a
product that you know is gonna fail.

317
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:27,150
You can just so much easier.

318
00:16:27,150 --> 00:16:28,050
You just know it's gonna fail.

319
00:16:28,050 --> 00:16:29,040
You don't have to solve the problem.

320
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:33,120
It's interesting 'cause we talked
about this when ZA came into the

321
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:34,350
studio, talk about saddle fit.

322
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:40,080
And I don't think people, uh, do you think
as an industry we talk enough about the

323
00:16:40,650 --> 00:16:47,130
commercial patterns of T fit and the fact
that it says you make more money when

324
00:16:47,130 --> 00:16:49,020
something fails and needs to get replaced.

325
00:16:49,020 --> 00:16:50,430
Do you think we talk about that enough?

326
00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:52,560
No, but I mean, in society we don't.

327
00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,410
Um, what's the technical term for it?

328
00:16:55,530 --> 00:16:59,790
Uh, planned obsolescence is
the technical term for it.

329
00:17:00,180 --> 00:17:02,400
You plan for it to obsolesce.

330
00:17:03,180 --> 00:17:06,420
Um, and they do that all over.

331
00:17:06,420 --> 00:17:09,690
You know, we can make light bulbs
that last millions of hours.

332
00:17:09,690 --> 00:17:11,730
Why don't we, because it's not profitable.

333
00:17:13,290 --> 00:17:16,319
We, we, we could make
saddles that last longer.

334
00:17:16,379 --> 00:17:17,910
Why don't we, it's not that profitable.

335
00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:20,430
And also people are cheap.

336
00:17:20,865 --> 00:17:23,775
You know, there's, there's plenty of,
plenty of studies out there where everyone

337
00:17:23,775 --> 00:17:26,715
says, oh, we want organic, uh, produce.

338
00:17:27,105 --> 00:17:27,195
Mm-hmm.

339
00:17:27,495 --> 00:17:33,375
And but then when you people see the
price difference between the two, like

340
00:17:33,405 --> 00:17:35,175
98% of 'em go to the conventional.

341
00:17:35,685 --> 00:17:35,865
Yeah.

342
00:17:35,865 --> 00:17:37,425
Do they really want organic?

343
00:17:37,455 --> 00:17:37,575
They

344
00:17:37,575 --> 00:17:38,355
don't wanna pay for it.

345
00:17:38,655 --> 00:17:40,995
They want it, but they don't
wanna pay the difference.

346
00:17:41,385 --> 00:17:45,285
So if you have a conventionally made
saddle versus one that'll last you

347
00:17:45,285 --> 00:17:48,825
four times as long, but it's twice as
expensive, you'll go for the cheaper one.

348
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:50,867
Why do you think that is?

349
00:17:50,867 --> 00:17:51,345
Why do you think we do that?

350
00:17:52,815 --> 00:17:55,155
Uh, it's human, human nature.

351
00:17:55,155 --> 00:17:57,435
There's so much work to
try to figure it out.

352
00:17:57,435 --> 00:17:58,305
It's just expensive.

353
00:17:58,965 --> 00:17:59,385
Um,

354
00:17:59,925 --> 00:18:05,685
I also wonder whether we have an
ability to delay gratification the

355
00:18:05,685 --> 00:18:08,865
way that we used to because we live
in such a, well, wasn't that option.

356
00:18:09,735 --> 00:18:10,155
What do you mean?

357
00:18:11,775 --> 00:18:16,125
I think people weren't as good at
planned obsolescence in the past.

358
00:18:16,125 --> 00:18:19,800
I. Okay, so stuff actually lasted mm-hmm.

359
00:18:20,130 --> 00:18:22,290
And there wasn't an option
between something that doesn't

360
00:18:22,290 --> 00:18:23,460
last and something that does.

361
00:18:24,510 --> 00:18:26,220
So then let's talk about the studs.

362
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,450
Yeah, I mean, I had a need
for lighter weight studs, so

363
00:18:30,450 --> 00:18:31,590
I made lighter weight studs.

364
00:18:32,220 --> 00:18:33,120
Why did you have a need?

365
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,870
Um, I had a horse that was barefoot
her whole life that needed to jump on

366
00:18:36,870 --> 00:18:38,730
grass, so we had to put shoes on her.

367
00:18:38,970 --> 00:18:43,470
We put plastic shoes on her and I made
really lightweight studs so that we

368
00:18:43,470 --> 00:18:47,760
didn't slip, and that was to minimize
the difference between barefoot and,

369
00:18:48,330 --> 00:18:50,160
and uh, having the plastic shoes on.

370
00:18:51,060 --> 00:18:51,300
Okay.

371
00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:53,520
This is really cool 'cause this
is, I really wanted to dive

372
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:58,170
in to the end of each of your
horses and how you navigate that.

373
00:18:58,170 --> 00:19:01,350
But before we go there, I think
this would be a really good

374
00:19:01,350 --> 00:19:03,150
opportunity to talk about one.

375
00:19:03,150 --> 00:19:07,110
So you've tested, you've tried and
you're using plastic is like glue on?

376
00:19:07,235 --> 00:19:09,120
No, no, I think glue on.

377
00:19:10,530 --> 00:19:12,585
I haven't tested it yet,
but I think it's, it.

378
00:19:12,775 --> 00:19:13,740
It's, it's bad.

379
00:19:13,890 --> 00:19:14,220
Okay.

380
00:19:14,460 --> 00:19:16,890
So you're using plastic
shoes that are nailed on.

381
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:21,985
That are nailed on and you're using it
on your ma, can you name who The horse on

382
00:19:21,985 --> 00:19:22,385
Carole.

383
00:19:22,500 --> 00:19:22,620
On

384
00:19:23,010 --> 00:19:23,340
Carole.

385
00:19:23,340 --> 00:19:23,580
We wanna

386
00:19:23,580 --> 00:19:25,020
start using on some others too.

387
00:19:25,020 --> 00:19:25,350
Okay.

388
00:19:25,770 --> 00:19:27,300
And she was barefoot her whole life.

389
00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:27,510
Yep.

390
00:19:28,140 --> 00:19:32,100
So you wanted to use lightweight
shoes because she wasn't used to that.

391
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:33,180
Like she's gone her whole career.

392
00:19:33,180 --> 00:19:33,780
Yeah, and we wanted

393
00:19:33,780 --> 00:19:34,650
flexible shoes.

394
00:19:34,650 --> 00:19:38,070
We wanted, you know, every piece
to be as similar as before.

395
00:19:38,070 --> 00:19:38,460
So.

396
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:39,630
And how's it going?

397
00:19:40,650 --> 00:19:41,220
Been going great.

398
00:19:41,730 --> 00:19:41,970
Great.

399
00:19:42,270 --> 00:19:42,450
Yeah.

400
00:19:43,140 --> 00:19:46,140
So you wanted to create a lightweight,
you wanted to like recreate that

401
00:19:46,170 --> 00:19:47,460
lightweight feel that she has.

402
00:19:47,610 --> 00:19:48,990
She's had for most of her life, she has.

403
00:19:48,990 --> 00:19:49,050
Yeah.

404
00:19:49,110 --> 00:19:49,890
Biomechanically.

405
00:19:49,890 --> 00:19:52,230
It's different, you know, we
know that when you take shoes off

406
00:19:52,230 --> 00:19:54,930
a horse who had been in shoes,
there's differences to their gait.

407
00:19:55,170 --> 00:19:57,600
We know that when you take a barefoot
horse and you put shoes on, there's

408
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,330
differences in their gate and
there's differences in their jump.

409
00:20:00,330 --> 00:20:02,460
And we wanted the best
parts of both sides of it.

410
00:20:02,670 --> 00:20:02,730
Hmm.

411
00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:05,730
So a horse that's barefoot
will slip on grass.

412
00:20:05,730 --> 00:20:05,970
Yeah.

413
00:20:05,970 --> 00:20:10,950
It's like you, no one, no one plays
soccer or American football and, and

414
00:20:10,950 --> 00:20:15,540
goes with uh, you know, uh, you know,
formal shoes they go to dinner with.

415
00:20:15,930 --> 00:20:16,170
Right.

416
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,750
You know, not gonna work.

417
00:20:18,810 --> 00:20:20,850
You need, you need cleats, you need studs.

418
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:24,930
So you wanna, and you want her to feel
confident like the angles and the speed at

419
00:20:24,930 --> 00:20:26,620
which you're moving at the, at the, yeah.

420
00:20:26,620 --> 00:20:26,730
If

421
00:20:26,730 --> 00:20:29,340
you're going full speed and turn
and you think you're gonna slip,

422
00:20:29,340 --> 00:20:30,750
you're not gonna turn right.

423
00:20:30,870 --> 00:20:33,090
So, and you're also not
gonna push off the ground.

424
00:20:33,090 --> 00:20:36,540
You know, if you don't have a staple
platform to push, they won't push.

425
00:20:37,170 --> 00:20:38,070
So you have less scope.

426
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:39,570
Okay.

427
00:20:39,570 --> 00:20:43,890
So let's start, I love this topic,
especially with someone like yourself.

428
00:20:43,890 --> 00:20:48,240
'cause I think you can describe really
eloquently how the process that you

429
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:52,080
go through when you get a new horse
and determining their individual

430
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,630
needs, what is that process for you?

431
00:20:55,485 --> 00:21:01,544
I think this is a dangerous topic because
people believe that their horse is one of

432
00:21:01,544 --> 00:21:08,445
one, and all of the normal processes you
can do don't apply to their horse, apply

433
00:21:08,445 --> 00:21:10,004
to everyone else's, but not to theirs.

434
00:21:10,395 --> 00:21:10,425
Okay.

435
00:21:10,425 --> 00:21:14,085
And so they think that everything
about their horse has to be completely

436
00:21:14,085 --> 00:21:15,975
different and nothing else will work.

437
00:21:16,485 --> 00:21:18,435
And they spin themselves
down a rabbit hole.

438
00:21:18,975 --> 00:21:19,485
And guess what?

439
00:21:19,995 --> 00:21:21,885
Horse never gets better
and they don't get better.

440
00:21:22,754 --> 00:21:26,865
Mm. Um, the differences between my
horse is, sure there are differences,

441
00:21:27,075 --> 00:21:29,625
but if you actually see what it's
like, it's not that different.

442
00:21:30,405 --> 00:21:34,514
People wanna believe their horses
completely a complete individual,

443
00:21:34,875 --> 00:21:39,105
again, to abdicate blame for why
they aren't doing what they want.

444
00:21:40,485 --> 00:21:42,044
That's an interesting call to action

445
00:21:42,105 --> 00:21:42,794
and.

446
00:21:43,439 --> 00:21:45,540
If I have a horse that's a little
bit colder, I'll give 'em a

447
00:21:45,540 --> 00:21:46,800
little bit more energetic food.

448
00:21:46,830 --> 00:21:49,260
If I have a horse that's hotter, I'll
give 'em a little bit less energetic food.

449
00:21:49,439 --> 00:21:54,810
But they're still all, I'm not saying
my horse processes carbohydrates

450
00:21:54,810 --> 00:21:56,010
different than another horse.

451
00:21:56,014 --> 00:21:56,235
Mm-hmm.

452
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:57,239
No, no, no.

453
00:21:57,479 --> 00:21:59,429
I'm not saying a feed
won't work with that horse.

454
00:21:59,429 --> 00:21:59,729
No.

455
00:22:00,389 --> 00:22:05,219
You know, they all still, all the saddles
are the same, their boots are the same.

456
00:22:05,219 --> 00:22:09,179
The, you know, the, the only reason
for the bits being different is

457
00:22:09,179 --> 00:22:13,110
a little bit different in, in
just their base biomechanics.

458
00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:13,169
Yeah.

459
00:22:13,350 --> 00:22:16,889
'cause, you know, one might be taller,
shorter, you know, longer stride,

460
00:22:16,889 --> 00:22:18,000
shorter stride, that sort of thing.

461
00:22:18,659 --> 00:22:26,820
Um, but I, I, I, I think horses are
individual, but this understanding that

462
00:22:27,419 --> 00:22:35,100
my horse, like if, think of the odds
if you are, if it's a 1% chance that

463
00:22:35,100 --> 00:22:36,479
something doesn't work with your horse.

464
00:22:36,479 --> 00:22:36,810
Mm-hmm.

465
00:22:36,815 --> 00:22:36,915
Okay.

466
00:22:37,860 --> 00:22:39,540
There's one thing that's 1% chance.

467
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:39,690
Mm-hmm.

468
00:22:40,050 --> 00:22:40,680
A second thing.

469
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:46,080
Now your horse is one in
10,000, two 1% things.

470
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:46,290
Mm-hmm.

471
00:22:46,530 --> 00:22:48,510
The likelihood of that is one in 10,000.

472
00:22:48,990 --> 00:22:53,490
Now one more, one in a hundred,
that's one in a million.

473
00:22:54,330 --> 00:22:56,370
A third now a fourth.

474
00:22:56,850 --> 00:23:00,060
That's one in a hundred million.

475
00:23:00,300 --> 00:23:00,390
Mm-hmm.

476
00:23:01,710 --> 00:23:03,060
So that's four.

477
00:23:03,210 --> 00:23:04,350
One in a hundred things.

478
00:23:04,530 --> 00:23:05,850
It's one in a hundred million.

479
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:06,630
Yeah.

480
00:23:06,930 --> 00:23:14,400
The likelihood, so I, I just, your horse
is an individual, but most of the time

481
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,280
when people are saying, my horse is
just different, it's just different.

482
00:23:18,150 --> 00:23:25,020
They're, that's just to allow themselves
to not be, to make it okay that they're

483
00:23:25,230 --> 00:23:29,880
getting less out of their relationship and
that, and to make it okay that them as a

484
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,160
rider and as a manager aren't doing what.

485
00:23:32,534 --> 00:23:33,254
They should be doing.

486
00:23:34,305 --> 00:23:40,935
Um, I know that's maybe not the most
comfortable way to look at it for people

487
00:23:41,115 --> 00:23:44,055
and they'll push back on and say, no,
no, my horse really is one of one.

488
00:23:45,915 --> 00:23:49,965
Well, I think if you look at biology,
there are similarities amongst people

489
00:23:49,965 --> 00:23:51,645
and then there are also individual needs.

490
00:23:51,645 --> 00:23:51,646
Right?

491
00:23:51,915 --> 00:23:53,595
And so it's a balance between the two.

492
00:23:53,955 --> 00:23:55,605
Is one person one of one?

493
00:23:55,605 --> 00:23:56,805
Well, we're one of many.

494
00:23:57,225 --> 00:23:57,405
Yeah.

495
00:23:57,405 --> 00:23:59,925
But I mean like, you know, good
horse care is good horse care.

496
00:24:00,495 --> 00:24:04,215
Mm. You, you know, if you have bad horse
care and say My horse doesn't like this

497
00:24:04,215 --> 00:24:08,024
one skin product, but you have bad horse
care, I would say, how about you have

498
00:24:08,024 --> 00:24:10,840
good horse care first, then we can talk.

499
00:24:12,044 --> 00:24:13,004
I just think it's dangerous.

500
00:24:13,155 --> 00:24:13,725
I love that.

501
00:24:13,725 --> 00:24:17,895
And you're someone that actually has
spoken very openly about, um, I think

502
00:24:17,895 --> 00:24:22,695
you did a walking and talking, talking
about the importance that we teach.

503
00:24:23,310 --> 00:24:26,880
Our young riders, our up and coming
generation, not just about riding, but

504
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:31,110
about horse care, about management,
about keeping horse, about finding a

505
00:24:31,110 --> 00:24:36,000
horse, about, there's so many elements
that go into success to what you're

506
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,250
talking about is a holistic look, right?

507
00:24:38,490 --> 00:24:38,670
Yeah.

508
00:24:38,670 --> 00:24:39,630
And have structure to it.

509
00:24:39,630 --> 00:24:44,040
How can you, how can you come up
with any solution if you're changing

510
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:49,260
the variables at a whim and you're
not keeping track of any of the

511
00:24:49,260 --> 00:24:50,910
variables that you can keep track of?

512
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:53,850
There are variables you can keep track of.

513
00:24:55,140 --> 00:24:55,560
Like what,

514
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,680
uh, how much weight and hay
does your of course get a day?

515
00:24:59,790 --> 00:25:00,780
What time of day?

516
00:25:01,350 --> 00:25:02,430
How many times a day?

517
00:25:03,030 --> 00:25:03,990
When do they work?

518
00:25:04,860 --> 00:25:07,980
What weight are they at the
same time of day every Monday?

519
00:25:09,030 --> 00:25:09,060
Mm.

520
00:25:09,450 --> 00:25:14,580
Um, where, how many, how much
time do they spend in a paddock?

521
00:25:15,270 --> 00:25:16,800
What is the grass like in that paddock?

522
00:25:18,180 --> 00:25:20,340
How often do you clean the shavings?

523
00:25:20,385 --> 00:25:20,445
Yeah.

524
00:25:21,105 --> 00:25:24,254
Do you know that each batch of
your hay has the same nutrient

525
00:25:24,254 --> 00:25:25,665
density as the batch before?

526
00:25:25,965 --> 00:25:27,765
What's cool is that we're
coming back to data.

527
00:25:27,855 --> 00:25:29,595
You're coming back to measurable data.

528
00:25:30,105 --> 00:25:32,895
Control the variables you can,
because there's plenty you can't.

529
00:25:33,285 --> 00:25:35,475
So at least control the ones you can.

530
00:25:36,105 --> 00:25:36,795
Really cool

531
00:25:36,795 --> 00:25:37,455
at least.

532
00:25:38,115 --> 00:25:40,185
So walk me through the process.

533
00:25:40,305 --> 00:25:43,305
What's the kind of timeline that you
look at when you get a new horse?

534
00:25:43,335 --> 00:25:49,245
What's the timeline of observation, let's
say that you have in your mind or in your

535
00:25:49,335 --> 00:25:55,365
program when you're trying to determine
the very best, let's say, ingredients

536
00:25:55,365 --> 00:25:58,485
for that horse within the structure
and within the program that you run?

537
00:25:58,875 --> 00:26:00,675
Well, first they have to be fed stably.

538
00:26:01,725 --> 00:26:06,015
So whatever they were fed before, if
it's your decision to feed them the

539
00:26:06,015 --> 00:26:09,405
exact same thing, the exact same way,
that's, that would keep it stable.

540
00:26:09,705 --> 00:26:09,735
Okay.

541
00:26:10,095 --> 00:26:15,195
Um, if you choose to make a change,
it takes a certain period of time for

542
00:26:15,225 --> 00:26:18,585
that change to manifest, you know?

543
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,170
For example, if you decide to feed
them twice the amount of calories,

544
00:26:22,470 --> 00:26:23,640
they're not gonna get fat tomorrow.

545
00:26:24,090 --> 00:26:24,360
Hmm.

546
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:26,670
They'll get fat in a period of time.

547
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,810
And you obviously have to go for a
search to figure out the right equipment.

548
00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:35,160
Uh, you know, tendency would be, oh,
it, this horse went in this bit before,

549
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,200
so I'm only ever gonna use that bit.

550
00:26:37,590 --> 00:26:39,960
Well, you're not the
rider who rode it before.

551
00:26:40,650 --> 00:26:50,040
You might be taller, shorter, stronger,
weaker, older, younger, and we almost

552
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:54,450
never, I think there's only one
horse that I go in the same bridal.

553
00:26:54,660 --> 00:26:54,840
Yeah.

554
00:26:56,010 --> 00:26:56,370
Ever.

555
00:26:57,450 --> 00:27:01,320
So you have to get a, a stable
feed and stable flat work.

556
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:01,980
Okay.

557
00:27:02,790 --> 00:27:06,180
Because then you can say, okay,
well these things are stable.

558
00:27:07,125 --> 00:27:08,235
Is the horse still heavy?

559
00:27:08,294 --> 00:27:09,284
Is the horse still light?

560
00:27:09,495 --> 00:27:10,574
Is the horse dull?

561
00:27:10,754 --> 00:27:11,895
Is the horse too hot?

562
00:27:12,195 --> 00:27:13,365
Is the horse skittish?

563
00:27:13,544 --> 00:27:14,895
How has the body changed?

564
00:27:15,044 --> 00:27:17,745
Does the saddle that we fit in
the beginning still fit because

565
00:27:17,745 --> 00:27:21,794
they lost weight or gained
muscle, or just gained fat, maybe.

566
00:27:21,915 --> 00:27:22,004
Mm-hmm.

567
00:27:22,365 --> 00:27:25,844
Um, you know, and then you
just slowly tweak from there.

568
00:27:25,875 --> 00:27:30,495
You tweak, you know, one variable at a
time and you just step along the process.

569
00:27:31,064 --> 00:27:34,875
You know, obviously if the program
the horse was in before compared

570
00:27:34,875 --> 00:27:39,314
to yours is very different,
you'll see a lot more change.

571
00:27:39,794 --> 00:27:42,435
And it'll probably happen
faster, but also take longer.

572
00:27:42,645 --> 00:27:51,284
So there's no cookie cutter, six weeks,
but it's also not, it takes forever.

573
00:27:51,344 --> 00:27:52,935
Like it just, it's part of the work.

574
00:27:52,935 --> 00:27:55,215
You just step through it and
you go from one day to the next.

575
00:27:56,324 --> 00:27:57,975
I don't think an
expectation should be set.

576
00:27:59,294 --> 00:27:59,745
I love that.

577
00:28:00,554 --> 00:28:02,774
What's one piece of advice?

578
00:28:03,405 --> 00:28:06,645
For everyone who's listening, who has
a, who have a new horse, and let's

579
00:28:06,645 --> 00:28:09,885
say the horse went really well or
didn't go so well with the previous

580
00:28:09,885 --> 00:28:14,564
rider, what do you think is one thing
that everybody, regardless of their

581
00:28:14,564 --> 00:28:18,495
socioeconomic background, their geo,
geographical location, their area,

582
00:28:18,495 --> 00:28:23,720
their sport, any of that, what's one
thing that every rider is capable

583
00:28:23,780 --> 00:28:25,875
of doing to accommodate a new horse?

584
00:28:26,895 --> 00:28:27,495
Treat it well.

585
00:28:28,935 --> 00:28:32,415
Horse doesn't know if you
are rich or you are poor.

586
00:28:32,415 --> 00:28:33,314
The horse doesn't know.

587
00:28:33,314 --> 00:28:37,455
If you felt you spent a lot or a
little, your horse doesn't know your

588
00:28:37,455 --> 00:28:41,145
expectations or the expectations before.

589
00:28:41,804 --> 00:28:43,814
Um, just treat it well.

590
00:28:44,625 --> 00:28:51,435
And from that you end up getting what you
want instead of just expecting and only

591
00:28:51,435 --> 00:28:52,784
treating it well if they give it to you.

592
00:28:54,764 --> 00:29:01,304
You know, you don't do
that with kids or dogs.

593
00:29:02,070 --> 00:29:04,860
You know, where you're basically
treating 'em poorly, hoping that

594
00:29:04,860 --> 00:29:08,400
they guess the right solution,
and then you treat them well.

595
00:29:08,850 --> 00:29:12,150
How likely do you think it is a horse
is gonna guess the right solution?

596
00:29:12,150 --> 00:29:16,260
Because there's like many steps to
actually get to the right solution.

597
00:29:16,410 --> 00:29:17,370
Mm-hmm.

598
00:29:17,371 --> 00:29:19,830
But you haven't given them any of
those steps, and you're expecting them

599
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,950
to figure out all of those steps to
get to the right solution, and then

600
00:29:22,950 --> 00:29:24,480
you treat it well just treat it well.

601
00:29:25,350 --> 00:29:25,830
I love that.

602
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:26,220
Sorry.

603
00:29:26,220 --> 00:29:27,000
It's boring, but

604
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:32,370
No, I like that you chose the
word well instead of good or fair,

605
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:33,690
let's treat it well.

606
00:29:34,290 --> 00:29:35,580
What do you think well means?

607
00:29:35,580 --> 00:29:37,200
What's your definition of Well,

608
00:29:37,585 --> 00:29:42,210
I mean, horses, they
don't need a pretty barn.

609
00:29:43,350 --> 00:29:47,760
They don't need perfectly
manicured shavings at all times.

610
00:29:48,150 --> 00:29:51,720
They don't need to have
a soapy bath every day.

611
00:29:51,990 --> 00:29:52,080
Mm-hmm.

612
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:57,510
They don't need, you
know, a lot of this stuff.

613
00:29:57,630 --> 00:29:59,370
They need highly functional.

614
00:30:00,389 --> 00:30:01,020
Surroundings.

615
00:30:01,979 --> 00:30:08,040
Even if the barn has old wood, they don't
give a shit as long as the wood doesn't

616
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:13,739
like stab them with shards of wood when
they rub up against it on accident.

617
00:30:13,919 --> 00:30:14,040
Yeah,

618
00:30:14,189 --> 00:30:14,699
that's fine.

619
00:30:15,179 --> 00:30:17,909
You know, they don't need
some state-of-the-art watering

620
00:30:17,909 --> 00:30:21,659
system that keeps track of every
drop that they, they drink.

621
00:30:22,169 --> 00:30:24,840
No, they just need clean
water in clean buckets.

622
00:30:25,500 --> 00:30:27,060
That's really not that hard.

623
00:30:28,169 --> 00:30:34,020
Um, they need a diet that's appropriate
for what they do and that's fed to 'em

624
00:30:34,020 --> 00:30:40,919
many times a day, um, consistently at
the same time, all the meals, every day.

625
00:30:41,790 --> 00:30:44,760
And you, to just be fair,

626
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:52,860
I love, I love that statement because
we had some amazingly inspiring

627
00:30:52,860 --> 00:30:57,330
veterinarians in the studio and they
talk, you know, about spend the money on.

628
00:30:57,975 --> 00:31:00,765
Getting the teeth floated properly
instead of the brand new tack

629
00:31:00,765 --> 00:31:03,885
trunk, because you, that's not gonna
make the difference to your horse.

630
00:31:04,125 --> 00:31:07,785
And some people they spend, you know,
they spend whatever they spend on a horse.

631
00:31:07,785 --> 00:31:08,295
Mm-hmm.

632
00:31:09,285 --> 00:31:14,536
And then they balk that you have to
shoo them every, you might decide to s

633
00:31:14,685 --> 00:31:16,515
them every four weeks instead every six.

634
00:31:16,575 --> 00:31:16,785
Yeah.

635
00:31:17,205 --> 00:31:22,365
That'd be like me buying a Ferrari
and putting, you know, oil that's

636
00:31:22,365 --> 00:31:26,055
meant for like a 1982 Acura in it.

637
00:31:26,955 --> 00:31:28,035
Like, that's just dumb.

638
00:31:28,215 --> 00:31:29,835
Why are you saving money there?

639
00:31:30,375 --> 00:31:33,315
Mm. That's, it's, it, it
makes no logical sense.

640
00:31:33,435 --> 00:31:33,585
Yeah.

641
00:31:33,615 --> 00:31:40,875
If you're gonna, and if you make
the choice to invest in a horse, you

642
00:31:40,875 --> 00:31:43,875
have to invest in the whole horse,
not just in the purchase price.

643
00:31:44,595 --> 00:31:50,625
And sorry to tell you that, but
it's kind of self-explanatory.

644
00:31:51,165 --> 00:31:51,405
Okay.

645
00:31:51,405 --> 00:31:55,425
So this, I just really appreciate,
I also just, I think a lot of

646
00:31:55,425 --> 00:31:56,745
people, I mean, judging by the.

647
00:31:57,285 --> 00:31:59,385
By the popularity of walking and talking.

648
00:31:59,385 --> 00:32:02,895
I think people appreciate the
way that you deliver things

649
00:32:05,205 --> 00:32:06,315
and why.

650
00:32:06,645 --> 00:32:08,355
Actually, here's a,
here's a good question.

651
00:32:08,355 --> 00:32:13,065
Before we dive into a really cool,
I wanted to talk to you about your

652
00:32:13,065 --> 00:32:21,675
style of riding, but before we do that
actually, why do you feel like inspired

653
00:32:21,675 --> 00:32:26,145
or a sense of, maybe even maybe in the
sense of responsibility, why do you feel

654
00:32:26,145 --> 00:32:29,835
the need to, to tell people and speak
honestly, and speak openly and speak

655
00:32:29,835 --> 00:32:33,825
transparently, because you don't have
to, you could have no social media.

656
00:32:34,275 --> 00:32:39,795
You could just ride and
focus on all your goals.

657
00:32:40,485 --> 00:32:45,885
You don't have, you don't owe anyone any
information, and yet you have dedicated

658
00:32:45,945 --> 00:32:47,505
a big part in walking and talking.

659
00:32:47,505 --> 00:32:51,015
I think a lot of people in the horse
world would contribute or attribute

660
00:32:51,015 --> 00:32:55,335
it to be a tremendous effort in
transparency and open dialogue.

661
00:32:55,815 --> 00:32:56,265
Why?

662
00:32:57,060 --> 00:33:02,939
I think there's two main reasons I would
say they're not in sequential order.

663
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:03,030
Okay.

664
00:33:04,020 --> 00:33:07,830
At Conway and Associates Equine
Insurance Services, they understand

665
00:33:07,830 --> 00:33:09,420
how special your horse is.

666
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,750
That's why I personally chose
to work with them to ensure my

667
00:33:12,750 --> 00:33:16,590
horses before we embarked on this
epic journey across the country.

668
00:33:16,860 --> 00:33:20,670
I chose them because their agency
writes coverage in 48 states.

669
00:33:20,700 --> 00:33:24,420
They also work with several A rated
admitted insurance carriers, so

670
00:33:24,420 --> 00:33:27,810
you have options and can select
the insurance coverage that best

671
00:33:27,810 --> 00:33:29,970
suits your own unique needs.

672
00:33:30,210 --> 00:33:32,880
Having confidence in my
insurance selection allows me

673
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,530
peace of mind on this journey.

674
00:33:35,010 --> 00:33:39,630
I can focus on my horses and embrace these
learning opportunities of a lifetime.

675
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:42,240
Who better to trust with the
insurance of your horse than

676
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,890
a team of fellow horse people?

677
00:33:43,950 --> 00:33:48,330
Conway and Associates was founded
in 1992 by Laura Conway, herself,

678
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:49,800
a Grand Prix show, jumping Rider.

679
00:33:49,815 --> 00:33:55,035
Laura and her experience team have built
a strong reputation as a reliable partner.

680
00:33:55,545 --> 00:33:59,565
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681
00:33:59,655 --> 00:34:05,685
Explore www.conway.net or call
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682
00:34:05,685 --> 00:34:09,465
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683
00:34:09,495 --> 00:34:11,264
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684
00:34:13,425 --> 00:34:17,145
I've been a fan of Carl Cook for
a long time, not just because

685
00:34:17,145 --> 00:34:21,315
he's a great rider, but because he
says the things most people won't.

686
00:34:22,545 --> 00:34:24,014
He asks the hard questions.

687
00:34:24,045 --> 00:34:28,155
He challenges old school thinking
he's honest about the ride.

688
00:34:28,635 --> 00:34:31,275
The good, the bad, and
the messy in between.

689
00:34:32,264 --> 00:34:36,735
For the first time ever, you can
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690
00:34:36,735 --> 00:34:40,335
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691
00:34:40,965 --> 00:34:44,475
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692
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693
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694
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695
00:34:57,735 --> 00:35:01,815
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696
00:35:01,905 --> 00:35:08,685
DH W. This is the kind of learning you
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697
00:35:09,255 --> 00:35:11,835
It's the part most people miss.

698
00:35:12,525 --> 00:35:17,625
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699
00:35:18,345 --> 00:35:25,095
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700
00:35:28,425 --> 00:35:31,605
I would say they're not
in sequential order.

701
00:35:31,725 --> 00:35:32,055
Okay.

702
00:35:33,045 --> 00:35:35,895
Um, first it helps me

703
00:35:37,965 --> 00:35:46,215
because you, we all can think about
a problem in our head for hours.

704
00:35:46,425 --> 00:35:46,575
Hmm.

705
00:35:46,635 --> 00:35:49,755
We can talk about our feelings
with our trainer for four hours,

706
00:35:50,205 --> 00:35:53,085
you know, after a round to solve
feelings and feelings and feelings.

707
00:35:53,085 --> 00:35:55,755
There's so many feelings,
too many feelings.

708
00:35:58,035 --> 00:36:07,035
But actually having to say it out
loud in a concise manner is helpful.

709
00:36:07,875 --> 00:36:12,645
Just like when someone says,
write it down, like, well, I,

710
00:36:12,645 --> 00:36:13,575
I've, I've thought about it.

711
00:36:13,755 --> 00:36:14,805
Like I know my thoughts.

712
00:36:14,805 --> 00:36:15,465
I know.

713
00:36:15,825 --> 00:36:21,555
Write it also in one paragraph that
changes how you think about it.

714
00:36:21,975 --> 00:36:25,425
It changes your method of thinking and.

715
00:36:25,935 --> 00:36:30,135
You now don't have an option of being
three and a half hours of feelings.

716
00:36:30,405 --> 00:36:34,815
Mm. You have, you have maybe two
sentences of feelings, and then

717
00:36:34,845 --> 00:36:40,125
hopefully you do like five sentences
on what you're gonna do now.

718
00:36:41,475 --> 00:36:47,355
And me speaking is a lot similar to that,
and it is helpful for me to do that.

719
00:36:48,585 --> 00:36:52,275
Um, also, a lot of times some people's
comments are quite interesting.

720
00:36:53,025 --> 00:36:56,775
Maybe not in the way that I,
I didn't expect it, but that

721
00:36:56,775 --> 00:36:57,855
doesn't mean it's not interesting.

722
00:36:57,855 --> 00:36:58,575
It's not helpful.

723
00:36:58,935 --> 00:37:01,125
So first of all, it's helpful.

724
00:37:02,655 --> 00:37:07,245
Second, um, I'm very grateful for
a lot of the experiences and the

725
00:37:07,245 --> 00:37:08,895
people I've been able to learn from.

726
00:37:09,675 --> 00:37:12,825
I have been very fortunate to be
able to learn from them in the

727
00:37:12,825 --> 00:37:14,655
way that I was able to do it.

728
00:37:16,065 --> 00:37:18,255
That is not the cheapest way to learn.

729
00:37:19,290 --> 00:37:23,460
And most of the time the knowledge
that people are searching for,

730
00:37:23,460 --> 00:37:28,860
whether they know it or not, is
locked behind money They do not have.

731
00:37:30,540 --> 00:37:31,320
And

732
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:41,430
they, so the help they get are
generally misappropriated bandaids as

733
00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:44,340
opposed to what actually will help.

734
00:37:44,730 --> 00:37:48,540
That doesn't mean they'll do it, but would
what would actually help if they did?

735
00:37:49,290 --> 00:37:53,580
And I'm not saying I have all the
right answers 'cause I don't, I would

736
00:37:53,580 --> 00:37:55,410
jump clear in every class if I did.

737
00:37:56,220 --> 00:38:03,300
Um, but I want it to be cheaper for people
to learn how to treat their horses well

738
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,130
that's a really cool why.

739
00:38:09,930 --> 00:38:10,770
It also helps me.

740
00:38:12,825 --> 00:38:14,865
I like that you said that
they're not in sequential order.

741
00:38:14,955 --> 00:38:17,234
Well, 'cause I was gonna start
with what I started with anyway.

742
00:38:17,294 --> 00:38:17,355
Yeah.

743
00:38:17,355 --> 00:38:18,524
I didn't want to, you know,

744
00:38:19,634 --> 00:38:25,904
it's a really cool why because I
think there's some of us in the, I

745
00:38:25,904 --> 00:38:27,705
think there's more people than maybe,

746
00:38:27,794 --> 00:38:31,095
well actually we also spend our
money in awful and really not awful,

747
00:38:31,904 --> 00:38:35,714
really not objectively correct ways.

748
00:38:37,035 --> 00:38:42,345
So you'll spend, I don't know,
what does it cost for a lesson?

749
00:38:42,555 --> 00:38:42,734
I

750
00:38:43,185 --> 00:38:47,234
can cost anywhere from 50 to 250 to

751
00:38:47,625 --> 00:38:47,924
Great.

752
00:38:48,345 --> 00:38:51,705
Let's say your lesson cost
50 to $250 and you have what,

753
00:38:52,214 --> 00:38:53,564
two to four of those a week?

754
00:38:53,984 --> 00:38:55,665
I think some people have
them one time a week.

755
00:38:55,665 --> 00:38:56,205
Sometimes.

756
00:38:56,265 --> 00:38:56,444
Yeah.

757
00:38:56,450 --> 00:38:56,600
Yeah.

758
00:38:56,685 --> 00:38:56,984
Fine.

759
00:38:56,984 --> 00:38:57,225
More.

760
00:38:57,464 --> 00:39:00,314
That is a lot of money that
you're paying consistently.

761
00:39:00,314 --> 00:39:00,404
Mm-hmm.

762
00:39:00,645 --> 00:39:05,535
And the point of why you're doing that
is because you want consistent knowledge

763
00:39:05,924 --> 00:39:08,234
to change consistently, to get better.

764
00:39:08,775 --> 00:39:11,475
And unfortunately to get better,
you have to change who you are.

765
00:39:12,105 --> 00:39:14,055
You can't get better without change.

766
00:39:15,135 --> 00:39:19,155
I know we're all perfect flowers
the way we are, but you can't

767
00:39:19,155 --> 00:39:20,235
get better without changing.

768
00:39:21,405 --> 00:39:21,615
Are

769
00:39:21,615 --> 00:39:23,265
we perfect flowers the way we are?

770
00:39:23,565 --> 00:39:25,545
Uh, I was placating to an audience.

771
00:39:26,055 --> 00:39:27,465
Uh, no.

772
00:39:27,465 --> 00:39:30,645
We're, but you know, people want to
assume that they could just change

773
00:39:30,645 --> 00:39:33,435
one tiny thing and everything will,
like they're doing everything right.

774
00:39:33,435 --> 00:39:34,335
It's just one little thing.

775
00:39:34,485 --> 00:39:40,635
But, so let's say your lessons are a
hundred dollars and you do two of them

776
00:39:40,635 --> 00:39:44,805
a week, that's $200, $800 a month.

777
00:39:45,165 --> 00:39:46,215
And that's just the lessons.

778
00:39:46,215 --> 00:39:48,825
That doesn't count the other
expenses, which is really expensive.

779
00:39:48,885 --> 00:39:49,095
Yeah.

780
00:39:50,685 --> 00:39:53,295
Now there are plenty of books.

781
00:39:53,835 --> 00:39:58,455
Each one can teach you more
than any one of those lessons.

782
00:39:59,985 --> 00:40:00,555
You think so?

783
00:40:01,095 --> 00:40:01,305
Yeah.

784
00:40:01,575 --> 00:40:08,384
In one one hour lesson a. $30 book will
teach you more than that one hour lesson.

785
00:40:08,654 --> 00:40:09,495
A hundred percent.

786
00:40:10,154 --> 00:40:11,265
That's really cool.

787
00:40:11,714 --> 00:40:18,734
Yet we proverbial, we want to learn
while sitting our ass in a saddle.

788
00:40:20,145 --> 00:40:27,375
And the thought that you would learn about
riding not in a saddle, on a horse, in a

789
00:40:27,375 --> 00:40:29,339
ring with someone talking to you mm-hmm.

790
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,734
Is just anathema to
success for some reason.

791
00:40:35,984 --> 00:40:40,035
And so, back to my point,
people spend money in the horse

792
00:40:40,035 --> 00:40:43,095
sports just unintelligently.

793
00:40:43,904 --> 00:40:46,814
'cause you can get, I'm not
saying in-person lessons

794
00:40:46,814 --> 00:40:48,765
while writing is useless.

795
00:40:48,975 --> 00:40:49,185
Hmm.

796
00:40:49,605 --> 00:40:55,305
I'm saying it needs to come with other
things that can actually make you have

797
00:40:55,814 --> 00:40:57,524
more context to what's being said.

798
00:40:58,154 --> 00:41:00,915
So you can get more out of
those a hundred dollar lessons

799
00:41:01,694 --> 00:41:03,435
and you can get better faster.

800
00:41:04,155 --> 00:41:04,995
But people don't do it.

801
00:41:05,685 --> 00:41:10,485
When I tell people the, what helped
me the most outside of working with

802
00:41:10,485 --> 00:41:17,955
Eric was reading, they look at me
like I speak in Chinese and I also sit

803
00:41:17,955 --> 00:41:23,595
there and I see the reaction and the
only thing it tells me is it's only

804
00:41:23,595 --> 00:41:25,755
gonna hurt them to have that reaction.

805
00:41:26,145 --> 00:41:26,895
It doesn't hurt me.

806
00:41:29,025 --> 00:41:34,995
It makes me think of when we go to
school, you would never just show up

807
00:41:34,995 --> 00:41:39,525
to class and listen to your teacher
and not do any of the reading or any of

808
00:41:39,525 --> 00:41:41,175
the homework because they're, or there

809
00:41:41,175 --> 00:41:46,515
just wouldn't be reading or homework or,
or anything you would just be spoken at

810
00:41:46,695 --> 00:41:48,615
and then expect at the end to get a PhD.

811
00:41:49,005 --> 00:41:52,455
Right, because what I think
you are talking about, and

812
00:41:52,455 --> 00:41:53,505
I love that you brought up.

813
00:41:54,075 --> 00:41:57,375
That reading was the best way to
get the most out of riding with,

814
00:41:57,525 --> 00:41:58,605
is that, that what you said?

815
00:41:58,965 --> 00:42:01,305
Riding with Eric, the best
thing you could do was read.

816
00:42:01,395 --> 00:42:01,485
Mm-hmm.

817
00:42:02,025 --> 00:42:05,085
But what it makes me think of is
that what you were doing was you were

818
00:42:05,085 --> 00:42:09,855
priming and enriching and building
the brain that was receiving the

819
00:42:09,855 --> 00:42:13,515
information you're getting from Eric
in a way that makes what you learn from

820
00:42:13,515 --> 00:42:16,275
him that much more valuable to you.

821
00:42:16,275 --> 00:42:16,575
Sure.

822
00:42:16,905 --> 00:42:21,345
Also, working with your vet, you
know, you, you, you know, I've

823
00:42:21,645 --> 00:42:24,915
studied one of my favorite books
I've studied over and over again.

824
00:42:25,095 --> 00:42:30,105
It is boring as All Hell 'cause
All it is is rote memorization.

825
00:42:30,435 --> 00:42:31,485
It's an anatomy book.

826
00:42:32,865 --> 00:42:34,005
So it's just memorization.

827
00:42:34,365 --> 00:42:34,575
Yeah.

828
00:42:35,895 --> 00:42:41,925
Yet when you can remember the various
structures, you can then picture how

829
00:42:41,925 --> 00:42:43,875
they move, how they interact together.

830
00:42:44,295 --> 00:42:47,565
How if you have a little bit of
swelling in this tendon, and let's

831
00:42:47,565 --> 00:42:50,085
say you have a little bit of,
you have a tear in a dispensary.

832
00:42:50,265 --> 00:42:50,415
Yeah.

833
00:42:50,625 --> 00:42:52,845
You know, you have more context.

834
00:42:53,384 --> 00:42:56,325
Two, what type of movements
could have caused it?

835
00:42:56,330 --> 00:42:56,600
Mm-hmm.

836
00:42:56,939 --> 00:43:01,455
Is it a compensatory injury,
which 98% of the time is so then

837
00:43:01,455 --> 00:43:03,285
what are they compensating for?

838
00:43:03,290 --> 00:43:03,439
Mm-hmm.

839
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:07,544
If you don't treat that, you're
not gonna fix the dispensary and

840
00:43:07,785 --> 00:43:09,464
you can adjust your flat work.

841
00:43:09,584 --> 00:43:14,774
You, depending on what you're
trying to strengthen or avoid.

842
00:43:15,044 --> 00:43:15,134
Mm-hmm.

843
00:43:15,495 --> 00:43:16,694
Uh, especially in rehab.

844
00:43:16,845 --> 00:43:21,075
And when you're talking to your vet and
your vet's talking about what they see,

845
00:43:21,345 --> 00:43:25,484
you actually have context for what you're
saying and you actually know where the

846
00:43:25,484 --> 00:43:26,895
structures are that they're talking about.

847
00:43:26,895 --> 00:43:27,105
Mm-hmm.

848
00:43:27,435 --> 00:43:29,714
I mean, how many people listen to
their ve they're like, oh, yeah,

849
00:43:29,714 --> 00:43:30,855
yeah, yeah, that's a good idea.

850
00:43:31,064 --> 00:43:33,345
But they have no idea if the
vet's talking about a structure

851
00:43:33,345 --> 00:43:34,365
in the back, in the neck.

852
00:43:34,395 --> 00:43:34,935
A leg,

853
00:43:35,115 --> 00:43:35,654
oh, um, sorry.

854
00:43:35,654 --> 00:43:38,444
Present company included
for most of my junior.

855
00:43:38,745 --> 00:43:40,455
And, and how much would
it have helped you?

856
00:43:40,830 --> 00:43:41,430
You, you know so

857
00:43:41,430 --> 00:43:41,730
much.

858
00:43:41,730 --> 00:43:44,490
But I was intimidated to even
say, I don't actually have

859
00:43:44,490 --> 00:43:45,884
any clue about what you're the

860
00:43:45,965 --> 00:43:46,206
internet talking about.

861
00:43:46,206 --> 00:43:46,210
Well, you got the

862
00:43:46,770 --> 00:43:47,040
Yeah.

863
00:43:47,070 --> 00:43:47,700
Now,

864
00:43:48,210 --> 00:43:49,049
and, you know, I

865
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:49,710
definitely,

866
00:43:49,860 --> 00:43:54,360
or, you know, pay 20 bucks a month
for, uh, an AI search engine Yeah.

867
00:43:54,540 --> 00:43:56,190
So that you can search your questions.

868
00:43:56,220 --> 00:43:56,549
Yeah.

869
00:43:56,820 --> 00:44:01,500
Um, I, I just don't get
why people don't do that.

870
00:44:01,860 --> 00:44:03,360
I just, I just don't, never will.

871
00:44:03,810 --> 00:44:04,259
Hmm.

872
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:09,120
I think it's, well, one, I think
there's a lot less education,

873
00:44:09,180 --> 00:44:12,750
especially about biomechanics and about
anatomy than the books are out there.

874
00:44:12,750 --> 00:44:15,570
Most people are comfortable to admit

875
00:44:15,630 --> 00:44:16,049
they're out there.

876
00:44:16,049 --> 00:44:16,560
The books are that.

877
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:16,890
I agree.

878
00:44:16,890 --> 00:44:16,924
I agree.

879
00:44:16,930 --> 00:44:20,009
And actually, the main book I'm thinking
of was, I think it was printed in oh four.

880
00:44:20,370 --> 00:44:21,150
2004.

881
00:44:21,420 --> 00:44:21,690
Yeah.

882
00:44:21,930 --> 00:44:22,890
Not 1904.

883
00:44:22,975 --> 00:44:23,340
No, no.

884
00:44:23,430 --> 00:44:26,190
2004. I think it was 2004.

885
00:44:26,190 --> 00:44:28,560
Well, you know what we should do is
in the show notes to this episode,

886
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:32,100
so it was in one of your previous
things that you posted My five books.

887
00:44:32,130 --> 00:44:32,310
Yep.

888
00:44:33,060 --> 00:44:34,980
I already spoke about
two of those five books.

889
00:44:34,985 --> 00:44:35,235
Okay.

890
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,350
'cause we're gonna include
them in show notes.

891
00:44:37,470 --> 00:44:40,140
So, and, and the book is on
Amazon for like 45 bucks.

892
00:44:40,140 --> 00:44:40,620
There you go.

893
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:45,180
And like, why wouldn't you do that?

894
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,960
Like, just, just why it makes no sense.

895
00:44:49,650 --> 00:44:53,700
Well, and I think, I think an Olympian
sitting in the studio saying that it

896
00:44:53,700 --> 00:44:59,130
will tangibly contribute to your riding.

897
00:44:59,940 --> 00:45:00,540
Just try it

898
00:45:01,380 --> 00:45:02,250
and see what happens.

899
00:45:02,310 --> 00:45:02,490
Yeah.

900
00:45:04,470 --> 00:45:08,640
So we talked about, I'm glad you brought
up Eric, because, so for, for those who

901
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,690
are listening and watching you who don't
know, you have ridden with and worked

902
00:45:12,690 --> 00:45:14,970
with Eric Neve for how many years now?

903
00:45:15,750 --> 00:45:18,330
Uh, almost 13.

904
00:45:18,900 --> 00:45:19,230
Right.

905
00:45:19,410 --> 00:45:22,345
And he's an, and you would consider
him a great mentor of yours?

906
00:45:22,345 --> 00:45:22,585
Mm-hmm.

907
00:45:22,725 --> 00:45:23,070
Of course.

908
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,029
So I think Eric, personally, I think
he's one of the greatest of all time.

909
00:45:27,060 --> 00:45:27,660
I think he's mm-hmm.

910
00:45:27,930 --> 00:45:28,710
Unbelievable.

911
00:45:29,550 --> 00:45:35,790
So at what point do you go from riding
like Eric to riding like Carl Cook?

912
00:45:35,790 --> 00:45:37,860
Because everyone in the
horse world talks about this.

913
00:45:37,860 --> 00:45:41,640
They talk about, you know, you kind
of ride in the style that you're

914
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:47,490
mentored and until you develop
your own individual approach.

915
00:45:47,730 --> 00:45:47,850
Mm-hmm.

916
00:45:48,090 --> 00:45:49,410
When did that happen for you?

917
00:45:50,220 --> 00:45:52,560
I always had my own style
before I rode with Eric.

918
00:45:52,950 --> 00:45:53,100
Okay.

919
00:45:53,100 --> 00:45:56,910
I was never, I, uh, for good or for bad.

920
00:45:56,910 --> 00:46:02,190
My, my first barn I was at never
really forced a position on me.

921
00:46:03,420 --> 00:46:05,160
There's many good things about that.

922
00:46:05,580 --> 00:46:07,170
There's also some less good things.

923
00:46:07,170 --> 00:46:10,680
It's, you know, nothing's good,
you know, nothing's all or nothing.

924
00:46:10,890 --> 00:46:11,070
Yeah.

925
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:15,120
Um, but I went to Eric because a lot.

926
00:46:15,525 --> 00:46:17,325
Too much stuff was not working.

927
00:46:17,805 --> 00:46:20,805
So I needed to learn that
stuff that wasn't working.

928
00:46:20,835 --> 00:46:28,634
So I changed how I rode because it was
the right plan, it was the right way,

929
00:46:29,174 --> 00:46:34,995
um, so that Eric wouldn't have to teach
around what I didn't want to learn.

930
00:46:35,835 --> 00:46:39,495
Um, and so I rode as
much as I could like him.

931
00:46:39,525 --> 00:46:43,275
Obviously I knew that I would
fail 'cause you can never ride

932
00:46:43,305 --> 00:46:44,685
a hundred percent like anyone.

933
00:46:45,194 --> 00:46:46,335
That's just impossible.

934
00:46:47,055 --> 00:46:50,174
Um, but I knew I needed
to learn a bunch of stuff.

935
00:46:50,205 --> 00:46:53,505
So, uh, that's what I did.

936
00:46:53,775 --> 00:46:58,725
And then maybe I started
to ride more like myself.

937
00:46:59,685 --> 00:47:07,634
Uh, once I really, once I started to pick
my own horses, uh, because I had a certain

938
00:47:07,634 --> 00:47:08,985
type of horse when I was a young rider.

939
00:47:09,765 --> 00:47:11,595
I was very successful on that.

940
00:47:11,595 --> 00:47:12,615
Obviously stopped working.

941
00:47:13,004 --> 00:47:16,754
Um, but then for a number of years
I didn't pick my horses and you

942
00:47:16,754 --> 00:47:20,535
could say it's a bad thing, but also
those horses had characteristics

943
00:47:20,535 --> 00:47:22,004
that helped me learn those things.

944
00:47:22,004 --> 00:47:23,955
I didn't know.

945
00:47:24,254 --> 00:47:24,404
Yeah.

946
00:47:24,890 --> 00:47:27,315
You, you know, if you are trying
to learn how to use your leg

947
00:47:27,404 --> 00:47:29,415
better yet your horses are runaway.

948
00:47:30,285 --> 00:47:31,785
You're never gonna learn
how to use your leg.

949
00:47:31,904 --> 00:47:33,915
Mm. Uh, this, this just won't happen.

950
00:47:34,395 --> 00:47:39,585
You need a horse that needs, you
know, a good leg for you to learn.

951
00:47:39,915 --> 00:47:41,595
Is my leg do helping or not?

952
00:47:41,745 --> 00:47:41,835
Mm-hmm.

953
00:47:42,615 --> 00:47:47,325
So, um, but once I started to be in
charge of picking my own horses, then,

954
00:47:47,654 --> 00:47:52,424
you know, stylistically I could take
what I, you know, had been and was

955
00:47:52,424 --> 00:47:59,835
learning with Eric and bringing in
horses that were more similar to what I

956
00:47:59,835 --> 00:48:02,745
was successful with when I was younger.

957
00:48:03,045 --> 00:48:06,525
But now since I knew so much
more then those errors and

958
00:48:06,525 --> 00:48:08,145
those issues from the past.

959
00:48:09,105 --> 00:48:11,355
The idea, the hope was wouldn't come back.

960
00:48:11,715 --> 00:48:13,515
So what is that type of horse now?

961
00:48:13,785 --> 00:48:15,501
How would you describe
the horse that you It's a

962
00:48:15,506 --> 00:48:16,095
modern horse.

963
00:48:16,155 --> 00:48:20,625
It's, it's just a modern, you,
you know, people joke that

964
00:48:20,625 --> 00:48:21,795
it's only one type of horse.

965
00:48:21,825 --> 00:48:23,175
'cause I only have Hot Bay mares.

966
00:48:23,175 --> 00:48:23,445
But

967
00:48:24,735 --> 00:48:27,225
also we all love the fact
that you have Hot Bay mares.

968
00:48:27,225 --> 00:48:29,535
Yeah, I do have an inordinate
number of Hot Bay MAs.

969
00:48:30,585 --> 00:48:32,355
I, I am not looking for only Hot Bay MAs.

970
00:48:33,075 --> 00:48:36,525
Um, but, you know, there's always a
balance of feel that you're going for.

971
00:48:36,525 --> 00:48:39,045
And I think nowadays the courses
are getting more delicate.

972
00:48:39,375 --> 00:48:42,105
The times are getting faster,
the jump offs are getting faster.

973
00:48:42,435 --> 00:48:49,635
You need a smart, um, quick
active, delicate sport horse.

974
00:48:49,845 --> 00:48:55,815
Um, you know, those big boats of
things that used to be more successful.

975
00:48:56,265 --> 00:48:58,365
I think what we do in the
ring now is different.

976
00:48:58,425 --> 00:49:02,865
So you can see people are riding
quicker, hotter, more energetic

977
00:49:02,865 --> 00:49:04,485
horses than, than they used to.

978
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:05,370
Okay.

979
00:49:05,370 --> 00:49:08,460
I'm gonna ask you a hard question,
which I wasn't expecting to ask

980
00:49:08,460 --> 00:49:10,080
you, but you say that statement.

981
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:17,370
So because we are breeding potter,
sportier, finer horses, and the

982
00:49:17,370 --> 00:49:21,720
way that the sport has evolved,
things are really technical.

983
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:23,700
So you have two factories.

984
00:49:23,700 --> 00:49:25,530
When we talk about change,
we talk about data.

985
00:49:25,740 --> 00:49:27,570
So those are two factors
that have changed.

986
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:31,680
So the additional factor that's
important to making, to creating

987
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:32,790
success is horsemanship.

988
00:49:33,450 --> 00:49:39,690
Do you think horsemanship has caught
up or is in, in alignment with the

989
00:49:39,690 --> 00:49:41,730
breeding and the technicality of the

990
00:49:41,735 --> 00:49:41,875
sport?

991
00:49:41,875 --> 00:49:45,690
Well, I don't think, I think some
people are breeding lighter horses.

992
00:49:45,720 --> 00:49:50,610
What I would say is more accurate is we
are selecting those for the top sport.

993
00:49:51,240 --> 00:49:53,520
Those heavy horses just don't
go to the top sport anymore.

994
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:58,590
They go to teach juniors, amateurs, they
go to hunters or equitation or, yeah,

995
00:49:59,010 --> 00:50:02,310
you know, they just go somewhere else.

996
00:50:02,805 --> 00:50:03,405
Um,

997
00:50:04,095 --> 00:50:05,470
and they find success elsewhere.

998
00:50:05,470 --> 00:50:05,670
Yeah.

999
00:50:05,675 --> 00:50:06,825
And there's nothing wrong with that.

1000
00:50:06,825 --> 00:50:10,845
They just, the horses we are
selecting for the top sport Yeah.

1001
00:50:10,845 --> 00:50:11,445
Are just different.

1002
00:50:11,775 --> 00:50:14,595
Not sure they're attempting to breed,
you know, every breeder's trying to breed

1003
00:50:14,595 --> 00:50:15,855
horses, they can sell for a lot of money.

1004
00:50:15,975 --> 00:50:16,185
Yeah.

1005
00:50:16,335 --> 00:50:18,735
So, you know, they're trying to
look into their crystal ball.

1006
00:50:18,825 --> 00:50:19,455
Uh, for that.

1007
00:50:20,145 --> 00:50:22,305
I think the horsemanship at
the top level absolutely.

1008
00:50:22,305 --> 00:50:23,595
Has a hundred percent keeps up.

1009
00:50:23,895 --> 00:50:26,475
Um, it's the most dynamic place to be.

1010
00:50:26,775 --> 00:50:29,145
Um, so on that side, yes.

1011
00:50:29,145 --> 00:50:29,595
Mm-hmm.

1012
00:50:29,970 --> 00:50:35,565
But also the, even though that
group of people at the high end is

1013
00:50:35,565 --> 00:50:41,265
bigger than it ever has been, it's
still tiny in comparison to, you

1014
00:50:41,265 --> 00:50:42,555
know, the rest of horse sports.

1015
00:50:43,575 --> 00:50:45,105
But that's always the way it's gonna be.

1016
00:50:45,315 --> 00:50:45,615
Yes.

1017
00:50:45,705 --> 00:50:48,495
You know, should it be different?

1018
00:50:48,915 --> 00:50:49,305
Yeah.

1019
00:50:49,665 --> 00:50:51,705
It's why it's a pyramid,
but it's it's not a bot.

1020
00:50:51,705 --> 00:50:52,755
It's not a rectangle.

1021
00:50:52,815 --> 00:50:53,115
Yeah.

1022
00:50:53,115 --> 00:50:57,135
But also if you stick, if
you stick a non-top rider in

1023
00:50:57,135 --> 00:50:58,725
and amongst those top riders.

1024
00:50:59,295 --> 00:51:02,355
They will miss 96% of what's happening.

1025
00:51:02,865 --> 00:51:09,194
Uh, now will they get better faster
than if they were hidden at home

1026
00:51:09,194 --> 00:51:10,245
trying to learn by themselves?

1027
00:51:10,605 --> 00:51:10,875
Sure.

1028
00:51:11,595 --> 00:51:12,705
But you're gonna miss a whole lot.

1029
00:51:14,085 --> 00:51:15,015
I don't know how to change it.

1030
00:51:15,015 --> 00:51:15,105
Mm-hmm.

1031
00:51:15,375 --> 00:51:21,045
You know, I, I don't think enough
people are up to telling their secrets.

1032
00:51:22,395 --> 00:51:24,524
Um, there aren't any secrets.

1033
00:51:24,524 --> 00:51:25,365
They just think they are.

1034
00:51:26,055 --> 00:51:27,345
So you can't ride like them anyway.

1035
00:51:27,345 --> 00:51:31,935
So why does it matter if they use three
holes on the, or three nails on the

1036
00:51:31,935 --> 00:51:33,495
outside and two nails on the inside?

1037
00:51:33,734 --> 00:51:37,964
Or they use a this stir or that
stirrup or this supplement or

1038
00:51:37,964 --> 00:51:41,055
that supplement or whatever.

1039
00:51:41,085 --> 00:51:42,345
You can't write like him anyways.

1040
00:51:43,845 --> 00:51:44,295
Doesn't matter.

1041
00:51:44,535 --> 00:51:44,714
Okay.

1042
00:51:44,714 --> 00:51:45,464
I'm gonna say a statement.

1043
00:51:45,464 --> 00:51:46,904
I'm really curious what
you think about it.

1044
00:51:47,355 --> 00:51:51,194
I had a really interesting cowboy asked
him if he was ever gonna write a book and

1045
00:51:51,194 --> 00:51:52,365
he said, no, I'm not gonna write a book.

1046
00:51:52,365 --> 00:51:53,355
'cause it's all been written.

1047
00:51:54,285 --> 00:51:54,915
Do you think it's true?

1048
00:51:57,450 --> 00:51:58,170
No.

1049
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:08,490
I mean, no, I think, I think at best,
90% of your book, if successful,

1050
00:52:08,490 --> 00:52:15,360
will just restate things in a
way that people might understand.

1051
00:52:16,500 --> 00:52:21,210
Now, the application in the western world
is different than the application for us.

1052
00:52:22,140 --> 00:52:29,460
Um, if we are gonna write a book
about training your horse to hopefully

1053
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,520
jump successfully to three foot
three or three foot six, mm-hmm.

1054
00:52:33,210 --> 00:52:33,660
I'd say, yeah,

1055
00:52:34,525 --> 00:52:35,565
everything's been written.

1056
00:52:35,565 --> 00:52:37,770
Everything you need to
know has been written.

1057
00:52:38,670 --> 00:52:42,870
A lot of the stuff that's at the
cutting edge, at the high level,

1058
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,750
you don't need at that level.

1059
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:46,110
Right.

1060
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,580
That'd be like saying, do you need
F1 tires to go pick up the groceries?

1061
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:51,720
Right.

1062
00:52:52,860 --> 00:52:55,350
And nothing wrong with that horse
that just jumps Three foot three.

1063
00:52:55,410 --> 00:52:55,620
Yeah.

1064
00:52:55,980 --> 00:52:59,970
But you don't need any of that cra
you know, any of that crazy tack.

1065
00:53:00,510 --> 00:53:02,715
Well, I think it's actually
really empowering for a lot of us.

1066
00:53:03,045 --> 00:53:03,425
Sit here.

1067
00:53:03,425 --> 00:53:03,428
You could just

1068
00:53:04,140 --> 00:53:04,410
do it.

1069
00:53:04,710 --> 00:53:04,950
Yeah.

1070
00:53:05,370 --> 00:53:06,330
What has already been ridden.

1071
00:53:06,630 --> 00:53:06,720
Mm-hmm.

1072
00:53:07,140 --> 00:53:10,740
Uh, but at the highest
level, no, that's always new.

1073
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:13,770
It seems like it's very innovative.

1074
00:53:14,370 --> 00:53:14,520
Yeah.

1075
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:19,410
People wanna be, 'cause people wanna win
and, you know, any advantage they can

1076
00:53:19,410 --> 00:53:21,630
get, they'll, they can and should take.

1077
00:53:22,470 --> 00:53:22,770
Okay.

1078
00:53:22,770 --> 00:53:27,240
Now I wanna dive into, actually
I'm gonna read a, a definition and

1079
00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:32,550
I'm going to ask you if you have
ever navigated imposter syndrome.

1080
00:53:32,550 --> 00:53:36,000
And before you answer, I'm gonna,
I'm gonna read the definition

1081
00:53:37,260 --> 00:53:38,400
and this is actually something.

1082
00:53:39,150 --> 00:53:41,550
I get from you 'cause I'm pretty
sure you've actually read out the

1083
00:53:41,550 --> 00:53:42,810
definition on a couple things.

1084
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,460
Imposter syndrome, also known as imposter
phenomenon, is a behavioral health

1085
00:53:47,460 --> 00:53:51,870
issue that causes people to doubt their
skills, accomplishments, and intellect.

1086
00:53:52,590 --> 00:53:56,700
It can manifest as a persistent
feeling of self-doubt and fear

1087
00:53:56,700 --> 00:53:58,380
of being exposed as a fraud.

1088
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,830
People with imposter syndrome
may believe that they are

1089
00:54:01,830 --> 00:54:06,090
undeserving of their achievements
and the high regard they receive.

1090
00:54:08,460 --> 00:54:10,260
Have you ever felt that?

1091
00:54:12,750 --> 00:54:15,720
I think it is important to not

1092
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:22,740
focus on a definition for something,
but in what you choose to do.

1093
00:54:23,850 --> 00:54:24,180
Hmm.

1094
00:54:25,050 --> 00:54:33,780
Um, because who cares if you've ever
felt symptoms of imposter syndrome?

1095
00:54:33,780 --> 00:54:34,260
Mm-hmm.

1096
00:54:34,266 --> 00:54:35,255
What did you do?

1097
00:54:36,900 --> 00:54:37,410
Sure.

1098
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:43,650
In my position, I come from a
very fortunate position where I've

1099
00:54:43,650 --> 00:54:47,940
been able to ride great horses
since my first punny jumper.

1100
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:48,540
Right.

1101
00:54:49,170 --> 00:54:54,420
And of course, you want to ride any of
those great horses that people know that

1102
00:54:54,420 --> 00:54:59,160
you have in a way that is right for them.

1103
00:54:59,370 --> 00:54:59,460
Mm-hmm.

1104
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:04,770
Now, I could choose to
let that cripple me.

1105
00:55:05,010 --> 00:55:05,100
Mm-hmm.

1106
00:55:05,490 --> 00:55:07,470
Or I could choose not to.

1107
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:14,850
And if I just stay obsessed with the
definition, let's say, it perfectly

1108
00:55:14,850 --> 00:55:17,400
explains everything in my being.

1109
00:55:17,970 --> 00:55:22,380
And if I just wallow
in that, who loses most

1110
00:55:23,340 --> 00:55:23,550
me?

1111
00:55:23,850 --> 00:55:23,970
Mm-hmm.

1112
00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:26,340
So what is your choice?

1113
00:55:27,330 --> 00:55:31,710
And who cares if you
have all of the symptoms?

1114
00:55:32,130 --> 00:55:34,530
Who cares if you have
the best reasons why?

1115
00:55:34,710 --> 00:55:35,070
Hmm.

1116
00:55:35,970 --> 00:55:36,690
I don't care.

1117
00:55:36,810 --> 00:55:37,620
You shouldn't care.

1118
00:55:37,650 --> 00:55:39,000
It matters what you choose to do.

1119
00:55:40,740 --> 00:55:43,170
And similar to the question of
how do you deal with pressure?

1120
00:55:44,009 --> 00:55:46,680
My answer to them is, pressure
is a privilege is what

1121
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:47,850
you choose to do with it.

1122
00:55:48,750 --> 00:55:49,799
It makes you better.

1123
00:55:49,859 --> 00:55:52,290
If you think it makes you worse
and you act on that, well then

1124
00:55:52,589 --> 00:55:53,670
you're the one who suffers.

1125
00:55:54,390 --> 00:55:55,109
I don't suffer.

1126
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:04,319
So I, people need to make a choice and
not think that, make a choice to act

1127
00:56:04,350 --> 00:56:07,410
and not just wallow in some words or

1128
00:56:11,129 --> 00:56:12,420
I think it's really good advice.

1129
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:18,150
I think it's very poignant because I
think a lot of people have, I mean, I

1130
00:56:18,240 --> 00:56:21,270
certainly talk to all sorts of people
in the horse world at lower levels,

1131
00:56:21,270 --> 00:56:24,180
at higher levels that have said they
have struggled with imposter syndrome.

1132
00:56:24,569 --> 00:56:30,569
And I think it's really a, it's
a thing that we all navigate a

1133
00:56:30,569 --> 00:56:32,129
lot of, a lot of people navigate.

1134
00:56:32,670 --> 00:56:37,020
So what are some of your own tools?

1135
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:41,580
Because you, not only, so you
talk about the, you, you just, you

1136
00:56:41,580 --> 00:56:42,930
just described it so perfectly.

1137
00:56:42,930 --> 00:56:48,990
Like you have had so many opportunities
within the horse, within the horse

1138
00:56:48,990 --> 00:56:53,640
world and within horse sport you
have competed at the top, top level

1139
00:56:53,730 --> 00:56:54,779
and you've gone to the Olympics.

1140
00:56:55,020 --> 00:56:56,759
You have a ton of pressure.

1141
00:56:56,790 --> 00:57:02,339
And anyone who knows show jumping will
say it's like, it has the mental demands

1142
00:57:02,339 --> 00:57:07,710
of golf, but it happens in a matter
of minutes, like downhill ski racing.

1143
00:57:08,100 --> 00:57:15,060
So it's a very fascinating combination of,
of, um, like I would say like mental game.

1144
00:57:15,660 --> 00:57:15,990
Right.

1145
00:57:16,259 --> 00:57:20,520
So what is your personal practice
when it comes to mental health and

1146
00:57:21,029 --> 00:57:23,069
specifically sports psychology?

1147
00:57:23,490 --> 00:57:26,670
Well, what I'd say is, look, you're,
everyone has a bunch of thoughts.

1148
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:32,580
I, I bet you everyone at the Showgrounds
has had thoughts, some or all of

1149
00:57:32,580 --> 00:57:33,839
the thoughts on your definition.

1150
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:34,080
Mm-hmm.

1151
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:36,359
You think everybody

1152
00:57:36,629 --> 00:57:37,259
probably.

1153
00:57:37,410 --> 00:57:37,859
I agree.

1154
00:57:37,859 --> 00:57:39,629
You know, we we're humans.

1155
00:57:39,629 --> 00:57:40,290
We have a lot of thoughts.

1156
00:57:40,290 --> 00:57:42,120
We've also had a lot of
thoughts of confidence.

1157
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:42,210
Mm-hmm.

1158
00:57:42,629 --> 00:57:46,439
We've had a lot of thoughts of,
I can do this, I can't do this.

1159
00:57:46,710 --> 00:57:53,339
I, you know, we all have so many
thoughts and I think it's important

1160
00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:56,580
to not focus on that and focus
on, well, what are you gonna do?

1161
00:57:57,450 --> 00:58:00,000
What is the action that
you're gonna do next?

1162
00:58:01,830 --> 00:58:05,069
Because you're not gonna get
better by staying in your head.

1163
00:58:06,149 --> 00:58:06,960
What's your action?

1164
00:58:07,830 --> 00:58:09,029
Where do you go from there?

1165
00:58:10,529 --> 00:58:13,379
You know, it's all fun and games
to talk about feelings for hours.

1166
00:58:14,370 --> 00:58:16,140
You don't follow that up with action.

1167
00:58:16,740 --> 00:58:18,089
You'll be in the same place.

1168
00:58:18,569 --> 00:58:23,970
So I don't care if you've had imposter
syndrome feelings or you've had.

1169
00:58:24,510 --> 00:58:29,790
Um, loss of worth feelings or,
you know, you'll, you might have

1170
00:58:29,790 --> 00:58:34,080
some depressive feelings, some
uh, overbearing pressure feelings.

1171
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:35,700
Some, you know, this is tough.

1172
00:58:36,225 --> 00:58:37,680
This, this is a lot going on.

1173
00:58:37,860 --> 00:58:37,950
Mm-hmm.

1174
00:58:40,140 --> 00:58:41,910
But it matters what you choose to do.

1175
00:58:43,740 --> 00:58:44,550
It's a choice.

1176
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:47,520
Most people aren't forced to ride.

1177
00:58:50,070 --> 00:58:55,410
If it, you choose to ride and you
have feelings that are difficult for

1178
00:58:55,410 --> 00:58:58,470
you to manage, we'll make a choice
to figure out how to deal with them.

1179
00:58:59,490 --> 00:59:04,950
We can label all you want, but
it's about your choice of action.

1180
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:10,080
So what are three things that
you think are available to

1181
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:12,630
everybody to up their mental game?

1182
00:59:13,380 --> 00:59:15,480
I mean, look, you can.

1183
00:59:16,005 --> 00:59:19,545
You can read self-help books
and, and get a therapist.

1184
00:59:19,725 --> 00:59:21,495
I obviously, I have a sports psychologist.

1185
00:59:21,675 --> 00:59:26,535
I, there's nothing wrong with that,
but I think it's important that

1186
00:59:26,535 --> 00:59:28,575
people stay very action based.

1187
00:59:28,875 --> 00:59:28,965
Mm-hmm.

1188
00:59:29,685 --> 00:59:34,605
Uh, very method based and they
stay disciplined on their method.

1189
00:59:35,445 --> 00:59:41,175
Um, because if they do the method,
whatever they believe is correct over

1190
00:59:41,175 --> 00:59:44,505
and over again, and they keep having
the same problem, okay, well then

1191
00:59:44,505 --> 00:59:45,975
change one thing about your method.

1192
00:59:46,155 --> 00:59:46,245
Mm-hmm.

1193
00:59:46,845 --> 00:59:48,315
See if it makes an improvement.

1194
00:59:48,555 --> 00:59:48,645
Mm-hmm.

1195
00:59:49,155 --> 00:59:52,425
And that's how you develop your own way.

1196
00:59:53,205 --> 00:59:57,345
There's no, there's no
three bullet pointed system.

1197
00:59:57,345 --> 01:00:00,855
I can't do a, a speech tour where
I give people the answers to.

1198
01:00:00,975 --> 01:00:01,095
Mm-hmm.

1199
01:00:01,335 --> 01:00:03,315
All the mysteries of life.

1200
01:00:03,885 --> 01:00:06,975
For me, it's, it, it's
the same as writing.

1201
01:00:06,975 --> 01:00:11,955
You show up each day, you work on
the action points from yesterday,

1202
01:00:12,585 --> 01:00:13,635
you try to make those better.

1203
01:00:14,580 --> 01:00:15,780
If they get better, great.

1204
01:00:15,780 --> 01:00:17,490
You find other action points for tomorrow.

1205
01:00:17,490 --> 01:00:21,270
If they don't, maybe what you tried
today was not the right thing to do.

1206
01:00:21,330 --> 01:00:22,530
You try something else tomorrow.

1207
01:00:22,770 --> 01:00:22,860
Hmm.

1208
01:00:23,190 --> 01:00:25,800
Um, who cares that you
didn't fix it in today?

1209
01:00:27,330 --> 01:00:28,350
Just keep going.

1210
01:00:29,190 --> 01:00:31,980
And if it's completely crippling
and ruining your life alone, it's,

1211
01:00:33,900 --> 01:00:35,610
you have a choice to not ride.

1212
01:00:37,530 --> 01:00:40,680
I know this is not
touchy feely summer camp.

1213
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:45,000
Everyone's having a great time stuff,
but I, for me, it's, you have to choose

1214
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:49,950
to act, um, make an action, might not be
the right one, but by making an action,

1215
01:00:49,950 --> 01:00:52,890
you learn that it wasn't the right
one, then you can try another action.

1216
01:00:53,670 --> 01:00:56,970
If you make no action,
you'll have the same result.

1217
01:00:57,990 --> 01:00:58,200
Yeah.

1218
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:04,290
I actually think that I'm gonna draw a
reference because as you're talking and

1219
01:01:04,290 --> 01:01:08,760
you said, you know, this isn't the summer
camp touchy feely vibe that everyone

1220
01:01:09,150 --> 01:01:11,970
might wanna hear, but actually no.

1221
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:13,830
Are you familiar with
who Jordan Peterson is?

1222
01:01:14,445 --> 01:01:15,465
In the mental health space.

1223
01:01:16,005 --> 01:01:21,765
He's a really, um, he's sort of a thought
leader in, in psychology and in human

1224
01:01:21,765 --> 01:01:29,205
thought, and he's very popular and a lot
of people attribute his popularity to his

1225
01:01:29,205 --> 01:01:36,645
ability to actually just give that kind
of, this is gonna be a heteronormative

1226
01:01:36,645 --> 01:01:40,485
reference, but like his ability to
give that kind of like straight up

1227
01:01:40,485 --> 01:01:42,525
fatherly advice that you might get.

1228
01:01:42,555 --> 01:01:46,185
He, he's actually really well known
for being pretty to the point and to

1229
01:01:46,185 --> 01:01:50,655
say some say the hard thing for most
people, and he's become really popular

1230
01:01:50,715 --> 01:01:54,945
because of that and not popular in some
room in some areas because of that.

1231
01:01:55,755 --> 01:02:03,435
And I actually think that the
collective needs those points of view.

1232
01:02:03,495 --> 01:02:07,725
I think it's an important balance,
right, to say actually there are things

1233
01:02:07,725 --> 01:02:10,545
that you can do and they're not that
complicated and they're available to

1234
01:02:10,545 --> 01:02:12,255
you and you don't really have an excuse.

1235
01:02:12,555 --> 01:02:12,735
Yep.

1236
01:02:12,915 --> 01:02:17,145
And a lot of times the reason people
don't make simple changes is just 'cause

1237
01:02:17,145 --> 01:02:19,065
it's simple, doesn't mean it's easy.

1238
01:02:19,365 --> 01:02:21,555
A lot of times the hardest
change is the simple one.

1239
01:02:22,455 --> 01:02:26,415
Mm. And they want secrets
that they don't know.

1240
01:02:26,685 --> 01:02:30,765
So it'd be something complicated
or specialized or mm-hmm.

1241
01:02:31,305 --> 01:02:33,435
You know, proprietary.

1242
01:02:33,615 --> 01:02:33,705
Mm-hmm.

1243
01:02:34,065 --> 01:02:35,055
That is simple.

1244
01:02:35,415 --> 01:02:36,975
And they don't have to really do anything.

1245
01:02:37,125 --> 01:02:40,845
It just like washes over them and
all of a sudden they're a new person.

1246
01:02:41,085 --> 01:02:41,355
Yeah.

1247
01:02:42,855 --> 01:02:48,195
You see that all the time, but it's often
the simple change that is the hardest one.

1248
01:02:48,615 --> 01:02:50,265
That is the one to make.

1249
01:02:51,315 --> 01:02:52,245
But I'm sorry, it's hard.

1250
01:02:53,715 --> 01:02:54,345
Can't change that.

1251
01:02:59,085 --> 01:03:02,475
I just love to like, let the silence
sit around some of these really

1252
01:03:02,475 --> 01:03:04,965
powerful talk, like these really
powerful statements you're making.

1253
01:03:07,860 --> 01:03:12,090
You have a co a quite a few, maybe
more than you realize, a couple

1254
01:03:12,090 --> 01:03:20,190
fans in fellow riders and they, they
actually ex, they really celebrate how

1255
01:03:21,180 --> 01:03:23,700
to the point and unfiltered you are.

1256
01:03:23,730 --> 01:03:29,220
They actually, I think one referenced
it as a superpower, but it also can

1257
01:03:29,310 --> 01:03:31,590
cause quite a stir, which we've seen.

1258
01:03:32,490 --> 01:03:40,620
I think I am in a very fortunate
place where it doesn't hurt me to

1259
01:03:40,620 --> 01:03:43,770
speak out or, or to speak my mind.

1260
01:03:44,010 --> 01:03:49,110
It doesn't hurt me to speak
my mind because it, I don't

1261
01:03:49,140 --> 01:03:50,970
have to worry about clients.

1262
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:54,660
I don't have to worry about good
relationships with other trainers.

1263
01:03:54,660 --> 01:03:56,220
So we can do business back and forth.

1264
01:03:56,550 --> 01:03:57,270
I don't,

1265
01:04:00,570 --> 01:04:01,980
I just don't have to worry.

1266
01:04:01,980 --> 01:04:02,070
Mm-hmm.

1267
01:04:02,310 --> 01:04:03,205
And so it doesn't.

1268
01:04:04,245 --> 01:04:09,465
If I cause a stir unintentionally
or intentionally, it doesn't

1269
01:04:09,465 --> 01:04:11,565
affect what I do with my horses.

1270
01:04:11,565 --> 01:04:12,375
Mm-hmm.

1271
01:04:12,381 --> 01:04:16,335
You know, I look my owner's, my, my mom.

1272
01:04:17,295 --> 01:04:21,165
So if I say something that rattles
the boat a little bit, she's not

1273
01:04:21,165 --> 01:04:23,895
gonna take all the horses and
go give them to someone else.

1274
01:04:23,955 --> 01:04:24,165
Yeah.

1275
01:04:24,495 --> 01:04:30,404
So I'm in a very fortunate position
where I can be upfront, and a lot of

1276
01:04:30,404 --> 01:04:35,685
people at the show are also upfront, but
they choose not to be because it might

1277
01:04:35,685 --> 01:04:37,634
negatively impact their livelihoods.

1278
01:04:38,384 --> 01:04:38,805
Yeah.

1279
01:04:39,465 --> 01:04:41,805
And you could say they shouldn't do that.

1280
01:04:41,805 --> 01:04:44,535
They should always speak their mind
all that, you know, they're less of

1281
01:04:44,535 --> 01:04:49,965
a person because No, they, they have,
there's more stuff in their equation.

1282
01:04:50,475 --> 01:04:50,654
Yeah.

1283
01:04:50,654 --> 01:04:51,915
They have bills to pay mortgages than

1284
01:04:51,915 --> 01:04:52,515
there is for me.

1285
01:04:52,605 --> 01:04:52,935
Yeah.

1286
01:04:52,935 --> 01:04:58,005
Like the, and I think that's a
factor that's super important that

1287
01:04:58,005 --> 01:05:00,975
sometimes maybe the horse world
doesn't always take into consideration

1288
01:05:00,975 --> 01:05:02,745
is when you're reading a piece.

1289
01:05:03,195 --> 01:05:05,505
When you're reading an article,
when you're talking to somebody,

1290
01:05:05,565 --> 01:05:07,035
what is their point of view?

1291
01:05:07,035 --> 01:05:09,705
Because there's a spectrum
of opinion and it's opinion.

1292
01:05:10,005 --> 01:05:11,715
Where are they sitting on that spectrum?

1293
01:05:11,865 --> 01:05:13,305
You're taught it at university.

1294
01:05:13,575 --> 01:05:13,965
Hopefully.

1295
01:05:13,995 --> 01:05:14,535
Hopefully.

1296
01:05:14,925 --> 01:05:16,245
You're taught to, yeah.

1297
01:05:16,455 --> 01:05:22,305
You're taught to discern what is the point
of view, what is the bias that exists

1298
01:05:22,305 --> 01:05:24,045
within this particular point of view?

1299
01:05:24,705 --> 01:05:25,035
Right.

1300
01:05:25,575 --> 01:05:30,075
But something that I don't know if
we talk maybe openly enough about

1301
01:05:30,075 --> 01:05:34,275
in the horse world is there's a lot
of editing that takes place because

1302
01:05:34,815 --> 01:05:36,345
money makes the world go round.

1303
01:05:36,555 --> 01:05:39,825
And a lot of riders or a lot of
individuals within the horse world,

1304
01:05:40,245 --> 01:05:43,035
they have, I have been in positions
where people have said something to me

1305
01:05:43,035 --> 01:05:46,245
and they're like, I will never say that
publicly, Noel, I will never say that.

1306
01:05:46,335 --> 01:05:46,905
Yeah, sure.

1307
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:49,515
I, I mean, I could, you would
say, why didn't this trainer

1308
01:05:49,515 --> 01:05:51,375
tell me what actually would help?

1309
01:05:51,615 --> 01:05:59,175
Well, you didn't want to hear it, you
know, if you showed up for a clinic and.

1310
01:06:00,345 --> 01:06:04,154
Your bridle was way too big and
you couldn't make it shorter.

1311
01:06:04,575 --> 01:06:11,294
Your saddle was fit for an elephant
and you have mismatched boots

1312
01:06:11,595 --> 01:06:18,075
and your horse is really unfit
and you've paid for this clinic.

1313
01:06:18,165 --> 01:06:18,615
Mm-hmm.

1314
01:06:18,674 --> 01:06:23,895
And instead of the trainer teaching you
what the clinic was about in the saddle,

1315
01:06:24,075 --> 01:06:28,455
they said, I'm sorry, you're still gonna
pay, but I can't teach you in the saddle.

1316
01:06:28,455 --> 01:06:30,524
I'm gonna show you what is
wrong with your equipment.

1317
01:06:30,975 --> 01:06:32,565
And until that is fixed,
you can't come back.

1318
01:06:35,085 --> 01:06:35,265
Now.

1319
01:06:35,265 --> 01:06:37,694
That is the right way to do it.

1320
01:06:37,845 --> 01:06:38,085
Yeah.

1321
01:06:39,105 --> 01:06:43,815
Because until your shoeing is right,
your tack, your saddle fits, you know,

1322
01:06:43,815 --> 01:06:49,904
you, you have boots that fit for the
purpose that they're supposed to be

1323
01:06:50,384 --> 01:06:52,845
your horses, you know, in a good place.

1324
01:06:52,845 --> 01:06:56,549
Physically, you shouldn't
be taught to ride.

1325
01:06:57,855 --> 01:06:58,875
On that horse mm-hmm.

1326
01:06:59,115 --> 01:07:00,165
With that saddle that doesn't fit.

1327
01:07:00,165 --> 01:07:01,785
Mm-hmm.

1328
01:07:01,815 --> 01:07:01,935
But

1329
01:07:04,095 --> 01:07:05,145
that wouldn't go over well

1330
01:07:05,175 --> 01:07:05,835
economically.

1331
01:07:05,835 --> 01:07:06,645
It wouldn't go over well,

1332
01:07:07,395 --> 01:07:10,725
you know, I could do the same
format with many different ways.

1333
01:07:10,905 --> 01:07:11,265
Mm-hmm.

1334
01:07:11,505 --> 01:07:14,535
There's many applications of
that concept in the horse world.

1335
01:07:14,595 --> 01:07:14,865
Yeah.

1336
01:07:15,675 --> 01:07:20,715
And so it, to me, I don't wonder why the
state of things are the way they are.

1337
01:07:21,195 --> 01:07:21,855
A lot of people do.

1338
01:07:21,885 --> 01:07:27,585
I don't, because you look at where the
incentives are, where the expectations

1339
01:07:27,585 --> 01:07:32,235
are, and what people are paying for,
but they think they're paying for.

1340
01:07:32,235 --> 01:07:32,655
Mm-hmm.

1341
01:07:32,810 --> 01:07:34,485
It actually makes perfect sense,

1342
01:07:35,985 --> 01:07:38,325
which is why everyone
needs to pick up a book.

1343
01:07:39,675 --> 01:07:39,885
Right.

1344
01:07:39,885 --> 01:07:40,365
Just think for

1345
01:07:40,365 --> 01:07:40,785
themselves.

1346
01:07:40,785 --> 01:07:41,835
Because you could get, yeah.

1347
01:07:41,835 --> 01:07:45,705
Think for yourself and pick up a
book, because that is something that

1348
01:07:45,705 --> 01:07:49,065
actually can mitigate coming to the
clinic with a poorly fit battle.

1349
01:07:49,095 --> 01:07:52,545
But, but also it could just be that
they knew the right answer, but

1350
01:07:52,545 --> 01:07:53,805
they don't have enough discipline.

1351
01:07:54,465 --> 01:07:54,585
Mm.

1352
01:07:55,065 --> 01:07:55,155
To

1353
01:07:55,155 --> 01:07:55,485
do it.

1354
01:07:55,875 --> 01:08:02,714
Like, you know that, you know, the horse
should have been haw four weeks ago.

1355
01:08:03,015 --> 01:08:03,194
Yeah.

1356
01:08:03,225 --> 01:08:03,825
But you didn't do it.

1357
01:08:04,605 --> 01:08:06,165
That is nothing about knowledge.

1358
01:08:07,154 --> 01:08:08,714
That is all about discipline.

1359
01:08:09,375 --> 01:08:09,825
Yeah.

1360
01:08:10,214 --> 01:08:10,815
I agree with that.

1361
01:08:10,815 --> 01:08:10,964
And

1362
01:08:10,964 --> 01:08:15,045
there's a lot of stuff where they want
to think it's about lack of knowledge or

1363
01:08:15,045 --> 01:08:16,484
it's really just a lack of discipline.

1364
01:08:17,415 --> 01:08:20,805
Mm. With the knowledge that you had, if
you did everything that your knowledge

1365
01:08:20,805 --> 01:08:25,845
told you with discipline, you would
be way farther ahead, even if you

1366
01:08:25,845 --> 01:08:28,965
still lack knowledge, but you were
disciplined about the knowledge you got.

1367
01:08:28,965 --> 01:08:28,995
Oh.

1368
01:08:31,215 --> 01:08:33,974
Instead of just thinking,
I'm doing all the discipline.

1369
01:08:33,974 --> 01:08:34,274
Great.

1370
01:08:34,274 --> 01:08:36,194
It's just I lack, lack knowledge.

1371
01:08:36,345 --> 01:08:37,455
Like No, no.

1372
01:08:37,455 --> 01:08:37,814
A lot.

1373
01:08:38,175 --> 01:08:39,104
You need more knowledge.

1374
01:08:39,104 --> 01:08:39,555
Sure.

1375
01:08:39,915 --> 01:08:43,965
But it's best suited if you also can
put it into a discipline program.

1376
01:08:46,665 --> 01:08:47,984
Just more silence.

1377
01:08:49,455 --> 01:08:50,415
So good buddy.

1378
01:08:50,415 --> 01:08:51,314
I just love it.

1379
01:08:51,345 --> 01:08:51,675
Okay.

1380
01:08:52,755 --> 01:08:57,434
Sometimes you say like, you've said
stuff to me or you've said stuff publicly

1381
01:08:58,365 --> 01:08:59,955
and then you'll get criticism for it.

1382
01:09:00,434 --> 01:09:04,125
And I loved something you said to
me when we were like on the phone

1383
01:09:04,125 --> 01:09:07,904
once you said, doesn't mean that
I'm gonna change what I said.

1384
01:09:08,085 --> 01:09:10,455
It's like this idea of just 'cause
you get criticism for what she

1385
01:09:10,455 --> 01:09:12,285
said does not mean that it's wrong.

1386
01:09:13,875 --> 01:09:17,234
I think if people are
expressing their ideas

1387
01:09:17,234 --> 01:09:18,104
mm-hmm.

1388
01:09:18,854 --> 01:09:24,854
And their experiences, even if it is
completely opposite to my ideas and

1389
01:09:24,854 --> 01:09:26,505
experiences, that is still helpful.

1390
01:09:26,955 --> 01:09:27,135
Yeah.

1391
01:09:27,524 --> 01:09:30,825
Both to me and to other people now.

1392
01:09:30,854 --> 01:09:31,274
Sure.

1393
01:09:31,515 --> 01:09:34,875
Attacking people personally, that's
really not helpful for the conversation.

1394
01:09:34,965 --> 01:09:35,205
Yeah.

1395
01:09:35,265 --> 01:09:42,135
But differences of opinion are helpful
even if I think those opinions are wrong.

1396
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:44,190
It's still helpful.

1397
01:09:44,670 --> 01:09:50,100
So just because someone has a different
opinion than me doesn't mean I am

1398
01:09:50,370 --> 01:09:52,290
going to regret saying anything.

1399
01:09:52,980 --> 01:09:56,730
It just means that there
is a conversation going.

1400
01:09:56,730 --> 01:09:58,830
And that's not a bad thing.

1401
01:09:59,550 --> 01:10:00,000
Like who?

1402
01:10:00,480 --> 01:10:01,980
Disagreement's not a bad thing.

1403
01:10:03,150 --> 01:10:04,710
Um, it's how you learn.

1404
01:10:05,190 --> 01:10:07,800
You know, why does that person
have that difference of opinion?

1405
01:10:10,110 --> 01:10:14,190
Is there something about my
opinion that actually should

1406
01:10:14,190 --> 01:10:16,410
be educated a bit by theirs?

1407
01:10:17,220 --> 01:10:19,920
Mm. 'cause a lot of times
that's the case, you know?

1408
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:22,110
And, and you have to
be open to that change.

1409
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:27,360
As much as I speak loudly,
I also change how I think.

1410
01:10:28,170 --> 01:10:30,960
I think that's something that's
really important to emphasize

1411
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:32,940
in this right now, right?

1412
01:10:33,090 --> 01:10:36,090
Is you can have an opinion and it
can also change, it can evolve.

1413
01:10:36,480 --> 01:10:41,760
Like Mark Rashid was in the studio
and I said he's written 16 books.

1414
01:10:42,390 --> 01:10:46,140
And I said, what's, you know, like, what's
one book that just stands out for you?

1415
01:10:46,140 --> 01:10:51,870
And he said, well, each of those books
was a, is a representation of the,

1416
01:10:52,050 --> 01:10:54,930
the thoughts and the feelings and
the opinions that I had at that time.

1417
01:10:54,990 --> 01:10:55,140
Yep.

1418
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:59,340
And you know, he's like an
icon in, in, in his space.

1419
01:10:59,550 --> 01:11:01,050
And he said, and those have changed.

1420
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:05,040
I've written 16 books to say that I
have the exact opinion that I had in

1421
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:10,440
each of those books is, is a, is a
fallacy, you know, thought evolves.

1422
01:11:11,100 --> 01:11:13,350
It should, you don't get
better without change.

1423
01:11:16,530 --> 01:11:16,950
So good.

1424
01:11:16,980 --> 01:11:21,690
Okay, so to wrap up every
episode, I always ask each guest

1425
01:11:21,690 --> 01:11:23,400
the same rapid fire questions.

1426
01:11:24,780 --> 01:11:27,870
If you could read one book to the
horse world, what would it be?

1427
01:11:28,740 --> 01:11:29,100
I don't know

1428
01:11:29,820 --> 01:11:30,210
really.

1429
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:32,400
It can't be just one?

1430
01:11:33,780 --> 01:11:34,800
Well, you gotta pick just one.

1431
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:35,880
I don't know.

1432
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:37,170
I can't answer that one.

1433
01:11:38,130 --> 01:11:38,370
Okay.

1434
01:11:39,270 --> 01:11:41,160
Who is the most iconic horse in history?

1435
01:11:42,615 --> 01:11:46,035
So many ways you could do it because
he would say Eclipse, but then no one

1436
01:11:46,035 --> 01:11:47,235
would know what you're talking about.

1437
01:11:48,375 --> 01:11:54,165
Um, Milton, because how he
inspired the partnership inspired

1438
01:11:54,195 --> 01:11:55,245
everyone that came after.

1439
01:11:56,835 --> 01:12:02,325
Do you think that's who, so when top
riders want to aspire to what I'd call

1440
01:12:02,325 --> 01:12:06,105
symbiosis between horse and rider, do
you think that's who they think of?

1441
01:12:06,585 --> 01:12:06,855
Yeah.

1442
01:12:06,855 --> 01:12:09,855
Or I mean, you could also, in
that example, you could pick

1443
01:12:10,155 --> 01:12:13,515
someone, a horse like, oo, who
else could have ridden that thing?

1444
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:13,790
Mm-hmm.

1445
01:12:13,890 --> 01:12:16,275
And that partnership and
the way that was amazing.

1446
01:12:16,275 --> 01:12:16,365
Mm-hmm.

1447
01:12:16,850 --> 01:12:24,495
Um, you know, that that same,
uh, same, you know, gem twist at

1448
01:12:24,495 --> 01:12:26,145
that time was such a cool horse.

1449
01:12:26,205 --> 01:12:26,385
Mm-hmm.

1450
01:12:26,625 --> 01:12:26,985
Awesome.

1451
01:12:26,985 --> 01:12:27,825
Unbelievable.

1452
01:12:28,365 --> 01:12:34,575
Um, Hickstead like that, you
know, I know it's out of fashion.

1453
01:12:34,605 --> 01:12:35,145
I get it.

1454
01:12:35,565 --> 01:12:38,865
But like, remember watching
them go around amazing.

1455
01:12:38,895 --> 01:12:39,945
Like, just like, just.

1456
01:12:40,545 --> 01:12:41,505
Ignore some of the other stuff.

1457
01:12:41,505 --> 01:12:43,365
If you just look at
watching 'em go around.

1458
01:12:43,365 --> 01:12:43,665
Yeah.

1459
01:12:43,725 --> 01:12:45,460
So, I dunno.

1460
01:12:46,755 --> 01:12:46,995
Yeah.

1461
01:12:47,895 --> 01:12:48,405
Good answer.

1462
01:12:49,305 --> 01:12:49,935
I let you say.

1463
01:12:49,935 --> 01:12:50,175
Okay.

1464
01:12:50,175 --> 01:12:52,095
I let you say more than one there.

1465
01:12:52,155 --> 01:12:52,515
Yeah.

1466
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:54,855
That's so, okay, so we'll go
back to, if you could read

1467
01:12:54,855 --> 01:12:55,695
one book to the horse world.

1468
01:12:55,695 --> 01:12:59,295
Let's say, if you could read
three books to the horse world.

1469
01:12:59,385 --> 01:13:01,065
Everything from John Marie Denix.

1470
01:13:02,700 --> 01:13:02,990
Okay.

1471
01:13:03,825 --> 01:13:04,905
That's a great answer.

1472
01:13:05,325 --> 01:13:05,715
Good books'.

1473
01:13:05,805 --> 01:13:06,870
John Marie Denix.

1474
01:13:07,660 --> 01:13:11,685
Jean Marie Deis is a French vet.
He's actually still alive and I think

1475
01:13:11,685 --> 01:13:19,965
he's written the best books about
biomechanics, anatomy, uh, for horses.

1476
01:13:19,965 --> 01:13:20,145
Now.

1477
01:13:20,145 --> 01:13:22,695
His anatomy is more about jumping.

1478
01:13:23,055 --> 01:13:23,205
Yeah.

1479
01:13:23,265 --> 01:13:25,515
Um, than anything.

1480
01:13:25,515 --> 01:13:28,575
If it's for all horses, then
it'd probably be the, what is it?

1481
01:13:28,575 --> 01:13:31,365
The veterinary owner's manual.

1482
01:13:31,425 --> 01:13:31,635
Mm-hmm.

1483
01:13:31,965 --> 01:13:35,595
Like, like literally just be that,
like, just, that's horse care stuff.

1484
01:13:35,835 --> 01:13:36,165
Love it.

1485
01:13:37,245 --> 01:13:39,495
Most undervalued skill as a writer.

1486
01:13:40,785 --> 01:13:42,705
What's undervalued skill as a rider?

1487
01:13:45,464 --> 01:13:46,245
Simplicity.

1488
01:13:47,264 --> 01:13:50,474
Who is the greatest horseman
or horse woman in history?

1489
01:13:50,684 --> 01:13:51,339
Eric Neve.

1490
01:13:52,934 --> 01:13:55,275
And last question, I have a
feeling I know your answer.

1491
01:13:55,605 --> 01:13:57,254
Mares, stallions or geldings?

1492
01:13:57,315 --> 01:13:58,634
Oh, mares God.

1493
01:13:58,634 --> 01:14:00,945
Stallions are dumb and
geldings are neutral.

1494
01:14:02,565 --> 01:14:03,045
And what are mares.

1495
01:14:04,495 --> 01:14:06,600
They're spicy, they're smart.

1496
01:14:09,390 --> 01:14:13,260
Carl, I will say I had pretty
high expectations of this episode

1497
01:14:13,260 --> 01:14:14,220
and they totally met them.

1498
01:14:14,220 --> 01:14:16,290
Thank you for so much for
coming on the podcast.

1499
01:14:16,290 --> 01:14:16,830
Thank you so much.

1500
01:14:18,060 --> 01:14:21,330
Today's episode is brought to
you by Conway and Associates,

1501
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:23,100
equine Insurance Services.

1502
01:14:23,580 --> 01:14:27,510
The friendly and knowledgeable team at
Conaway and Associates brings together

1503
01:14:27,510 --> 01:14:32,100
more than 30 years of experience
to offer a wide range of insurance

1504
01:14:32,100 --> 01:14:36,990
services, including horse insurance,
farm insurance, and liability insurance.

1505
01:14:37,350 --> 01:14:43,200
Visit www.conaway.net to explore
options or get in touch today.