High voltage takes center stage
in this season of Hitachi Energy's Power Pulse podcast.
We promise to bring you great content from the brightest minds in the business.
We'll discuss challenges, opportunities, and all the hot topics
any high voltage enthusiast
or anyone interested in sustainability, for that matter, is sure to enjoy.
This episode of the podcast is dedicated to all asset managers,
a group of professionals who want to know in detail
about our equipment and the specificities of our designs.
To tell them about it, we invited Martin Apfl along.
Martin is the Marketing and Sales Manager for service and GCB businesses.
He is very used to responding to questions around safety,
reliability, availability, resilience and more.
Martin is a mechatronics engineer with a master's in General Management.
Even though we're dedicating this episode to asset managers,
we'll make sure Martin uses language we can all understand.
Welcome back to Power Pulse.
I'm your host, Sam Dash, and today I'm speaking with Martin Apfl,
the Global Product Marketing and Sales Manager.
Hi, Martin. Hi.
Thanks for having me. You're welcome. Thanks for being here.
So, Martin, one of the most interesting things
I've read about you is outside of your work, you've had quite
a significant visit to a monastery, of all places, in Greece.
Can you tell me a bit about that experience?
Yes, I would love to.
I mean, it's a super interesting place, and my feeling is not many people know
about this.
I mean, it's a place or it's a republic called Athos.
Yeah, I had never heard of it.
It's in Greece.
It's on the Peloponnese peninsula,
and they seem to be an own state, actually,
which gets them very often in conflict with the European Union, because it's
20 monasteries on a peninsula and that, it's
called the Republic of Athos, and they don't even allow women there.
So there only males there, only male animals, by the way.
So they don't even allow female animals there.
I don't even know how that works.
And it's a huge contradiction with the European Union.
But that's a different story. That's what we talk about here.
But, what my father and two brothers and I did as we visited that place.
And Athos grants you visa actually.
You cannot just go there. Oh, wow. Cannot just travel there.
You need a visa.
And then we took a boat trip
to that place, and then we stayed in two of those monasteries.
They don't have running water. They don't have electricity there.
They devote themselves fully to prayer and work.
And you get the chance as a visitor to witness that for a couple of days.
And that puts you really back to Earth.
Is there an element of that experience that you have carried with you
since doing that?
Well, I would love to have carried more.
You know, I mean, we all have a busy life, and I try to remember
the times in Athos and the mindset that I observed.
You know, the monks,
they have different view on life, as probably I have and you have maybe.
But I try to bring back sometimes the slowness into my daily life
and to refocus, to re understand what's really important in life.
It was cool to have a glimpse into that world.
Yeah, I can imagine it really gives you perspective.
Yes, exactly.
It's connections.
It's family, friends, connections you make at home, but also in your workplace.
That's what matters in the end.
And I need it every day in my daily life, in my work life.
So speaking of work life, let's get more into your work life.
Over the season we've heard a lot about how the grid came to be.
Yes. We know it's
getting old and desperately needs to be serviced and updated, etc.
but who are the customers who come to you for help with their aging grid?
And what type of thing do they say to you?
Our customer base in Hitachi Energy or in the high voltage business
usually it's a utility or it's a power generation company.
It could be even also an industry customer.
And what we've seen in the last years is really the huge surge
in grid rehabilitations.
So customers renewing, refurbishing their existing grid.
It's a huge boom.
And it can be explained because, I mean, especially in post-industrial countries
like Europe, the US, they built their infrastructure already.
All of this infrastructure gets old
and customers are asking themselves or asset managers,
our customers are asking themselves, okay, now what to do with this infrastructure?
Do I need to replace it? Do I need to refurbish it?
Do I need to retrofit it?
And it's even true for emerging economies
in the Middle East, for example, or in Asia.
I mean, they had a big boom in infrastructure build up and it's
actually continuing till the very day,
but still also those assets, substation transformers, everything you have
there needs to be serviced and refurbished.
And that's what customers come to us every day
and ask for options and want to understand, okay, what options do I have?
What possibilities do I have?
So for those of us listening to this without the visual
necessarily that you have, what does an old grid look like?
How would you describe an old grid to those of us outside the industry?
You can imagine, I mean, usually our products that we put
into the market or assets as we call it, they have usually a lifetime
of, let's say 40 years.
Yeah, it can be a switchgear, it can be a transformer.
And we have so many cases where customers are calling us,
sending us plate, a technical rating plate of that asset of their product.
And then we see it's 60 years old, it's 70 years old.
And then– oh wow.
And then we’re like, wow, it still runs.
It's still working, yea.
But still customers have to question,
okay, what to do with it because it feels scary.
It's already 60-70 years old.
My breaker my switchgear.
So Hitachi Energy what options do I have?
Is it the kind of thing where you sort of –
this is maybe not the right example – but if you meet someone for the first time
and they tell you their age and you think, wow,
this person looks so much younger
than what they say their age is, you know, if they say they're 60 years old,
but you think, wow, you look like you're 50 or 45,
is it a similar thing with that equipment where these customers
or clients are saying this data, this information says that our equipment
is 60 years old, but it's still operating like it's 20 years old or something.
What you have to understand is that also depends a lot on the circumstances.
I mean, we have our assets usually in a switchgear yard, in a substation,
usually close to the steel doors, and then you leave it there for 40 years.
You just come in for service.
But many of our assets and switchgears, transformers,
they are in harsh conditions . See here in offshore.
I mean, you have corrosive air, right? You have salty air.
The water is salty and those assets are in much more exposure.
So it depends a bit.
So you see issues of corrosion, rust, salt buildup
things like that on the equipment.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, to make that analogy you wanted to make
is I mean, an office person
who never gets hands dirty,
maybe differently exposed to a person who is everyday out.
Out in the field, farming or something Yeah, exactly.
So our products have similar characteristics.
Is it safe to say that you deal with asset managers on a daily basis?
And what type of work would you be collaborating on with them?
Yeah, actually I just met asset managers yesterday.
Oh yeah.
Yes I did, and we had a long discussions about challenges and
what was interesting to see is, I mean, that we have the same challenges actually.
I mean, our customers, our asset managers, and we do.
And one common denominator was lack of resources or in other words, people.
I explained before that we see a huge demand in grid refurbishments.
You need people who do that. Yeah. Right.
And so is it hard to find the people who do the.
Extremely hard to find those people.
I mean, it's struggle our customers have,
but it's also struggle that we have and think it can be explained too,
because many people want to get a university education right.
Many people aim for office position, but those parts of the demography are missing
field service positions, and customers in the industries need to think about.
We need to change the job profile of a field service engineer
because it was different in the past, because in the past, you know, field
service engineer traveled, for example, to naming a country now to Algeria
to build up the infrastructure there, stay there for three, 4 or 5, six months.
You know, building up the infrastructure, earning a little money, of course,
and then go back home.
But this with the generation currently - generation Z -
they have a different meaning to life. They don't want this anymore.
They want to be home in the evening.
And I can't blame them. Same for myself. I have three kids.
I don't want to be out for six months installing a switchgear.
I also want to be home every night, so companies
need to rethink that job profile.
That's one thing.
What we also realized is we always think about digitalization and digital.
Yeah. And here is one good example where we can use it.
Because in the past we used to send a guy from here to Colombia
because in Colombia there is a problem with one of our products.
Sure. Yeah.
But is that really necessary?
Because with the technology that we have today, you can do remote assistance,
you can help people using the technology that we have.
So you don't need to send a guy.
So it's good for the environment, right.
Because no need to send a person around the globe.
Yeah. Right.
And the person is at home with the family in the evening.
So that's one of the challenges
that we as a switchgear manufacturer, but also our customers have in common.
Yeah.
And how is becoming more digital
creating opportunities for you, but also creating challenges?
What we always say: ‘we're not doing digital
for the sake of digital.’ That's not worth it.
I mean, we want to use it as a tool to help
also artificial intelligence, I mean, we don't do AI just to chat with ChatGPT.
I mean, we want to have a purpose. We want to have a meaning.
And that's why when we look at digitalization and Hitachi Energy,
we always ask ourselves, okay, what is really the purpose?
Why are we doing this?
And there's one example is a remote monitoring
– not to send a person or to deploy him or her to site.
Right.
Or if we monitor our assets and what we can do is real
life monitor the state of our switchgears or transformers, for example.
Why are we doing this?
Not just for fun, no, because we can prevent failures.
We can predict failures. That's why we are doing it.
And so are there challenges within that system?
Are there instances where it's more difficult to do a certain job
digitally than it was in the past, when you would send someone to the site
in person?
Yeah. One aspect is also health and safety.
For example, if you do a remote monitoring,
there are certain technologies how to do it.
Sometimes, you know, you can do it with a mobile phone
or with some fancy glasses you can put on your helmet.
Yeah.
But you also need to take the health and safety aspect into consideration.
I mean, if you need to work on a site holding a phone and then, you know,
you– Yeah, right.
You talk to the headquarters.
I mean, it's also not–
So you're not looking to do
a blanket replacement of everything into a digital sphere.
You're trying to be quite targeted about what can be better
digitally and what still requires something in person.
Is that right?
That's exactly the point. We can't replace a field service engineer.
They are the heart, the core and the DNA of our service organization.
We always say it's a people's business and digital will never replace that.
Probably.
It will be an enabler, a catalyst, but it will not replace people.
So tell me, what are the most common requests you receive from asset managers?
Yes. Asset managers have always targets and their targets usually is,
I mean they want to run their assets as safe as possible, as reliable as possible.
And they need to look also after affordability and resilience.
I mean, this is usually the mantra every asset manager has.
And one common request is, I mean, they find themselves in a situation.
I mean, they manage a fleet of different
assets, right, with different ages and different demands and needs.
And the good thing is we have not the one only solution.
We have a set of solutions.
One thing is, I mean, we can retrofit assets.
If you want examples: So you are an asset manager.
You are sitting on a switchgear that is 30 years old. Right.
And you ask yourself, okay, what to do.
And there are several options.
I mean, one obvious option is replace that thing with a new one.
Okay.
But we as Hitachi Energy, we also have other options
like we can refurbish your equipment and retrofit your equipment.
Basically meaning taking out components which are prone to failure and replace it
with state of the art new components.
And then this gives you peace and quiet for the next 15, 20 years.
And the beautiful thing about retrofitting is also because here comes
the sustainability aspect.
This every switchgear, every asset
that you don't have to replace contributes to sustainability
because a new switchgear means new copper, new steel, new aluminum.
Right.
And if you keep your asset in place
but refurbish it or retrofit it you think about the sustainability aspect.
Yeah.
You're not putting more energy out to produce new raw materials, etc..
Exactly, exactly.
This is, by the way, how many legislations are written in that spirit.
And so before you replace an entire switchgear,
look for solutions to keep the assets in place and to extend the lifetime.
So that is a big topic in the industry - extending lifetime.
And so as part of your job, helping those asset managers
really interrogate what can be done in terms of that retrofitting?
Yes, exactly.
Because there is not just one solution.
So, asset manager comes to us asking okay, what to do.
And then we come with one answer.
I mean usually we come with a set of options.
Yeah. So I said one thing is the replacement.
But when it comes to retrofitting there are different degrees
of retrofitting. Yeah.
So you can exchange the circuit breaker or you only exchange
the operating mechanism.
So basically certain parts of the switchgear
and it depends on product lifecycle depends on availability of parts.
Depends on budget of course.
So it's always a bit of a assessment case by case.
And that's what we do.
We speak with asset managers and define the right strategy
for the asset and the fleet that they are running.
So do you find yourself frequently in the position of needing to meet
with asset managers and convince them of the benefits of retrofitting
and recycling and doing that, as opposed to buying a whole new system?
Exactly.
I think that's one of the unique positions that we have as a company,
is that wide range of retrofit portfolio,
because many other OEMs will probably tell you replace your assets,
but it's expensive and sustainability aspect is also not really followed.
Right.
So we have this wide portfolio.
And I think that really sets us apart.
So we could offer many different options.
So let's pretend, for instance, that I'm an asset manager coming to you
and I am sort of on the fence about whether to upgrade or replace
my current equipment. Yeah.
What would you say to me?
We assess the situation so we look how old is your switchgear,
how many switchings it has seen.
And one question is also how many short circuit switchings it has seen.
It becomes a bit technical now but this gives a hard time.
This gives stress to assets. Yeah.
Then we look at the conditions switchgear is placed.
I mean I've talked about this before.
Is it on an offshore platform or is it nice cozy and warm and,
and air conditioned switchyard.
So what I'm hearing is and again correct me
if I'm wrong, as you really want to discuss with your asset managers the data.
You want to know what the data says about what the situation
is, what the context is for, where the equipment is located,
but also what kind of state it is in and what the numbers show.
Correct. And then we come with options.
I mean, we have different options with retrofit.
The question is also always do you do retrofit on all of your assets
or only the most stressed ones. Yeah.
So let's be honest, the affordability
aspect always comes into play as well at the end of the day.
And then we think about all the strategic spare parts.
It's also quite important thing because if you do a retrofit
you replace certain parts, but then you have the old parts
and you don't throw them away.
Yeah, right.
You keep them in the warehouse,
you could reuse them in case something happens to your existing installations.
Are there any issues with retrofitting only some of the equipment
as opposed to all of it?
Well, yes and no.
I mean, in the end, it's a budget question.
We, as Hitachi Energy always propose to do a full retrofit
then you're on the safe side.
But let's be honest, in many cases the budget plays a very big role. Yes.
And then you do a partial retrofitting. For example.
You have ten GIS bays.
Then you say, okay, so which are the most stressed ones.
So bay number two, five and six for example.
And then you do a retrofit on two, five and six.
But this gives you additional spare parts than for the other one.
So there is an advantage to it as well.
It's not necessarily a bad thing if you only replace part of the fleet.
Exactly. Yeah.
And again it all boils down to flexibility.
And we can be super flexible.
I mean we have many different retrofit options in place.
And again I think that sets us really apart.
We as Hitachi Energy, we try to stay abreast with those requirements.
One aspect that came on top of this is sustainability.
My personal feeling was the last year it was a bit of a buzzword.
Yeah.
But now what you see all across the world is a change in legislation, right?
So we want to get to net-zero.
We want to limit the global warming to 1.5%.
So many governments
across the globe are committing to certain laws and regulations,
and it doesn't stop short of transmission and distribution of our industry.
We welcome that.
We think that's good
and we help our customers to fulfill their targets, their sustainability targets.
Right.
And speaking about sustainability, we've heard a little bit about SF6
and recycling SF6 in previous episodes.
Can you explain the nitty gritty of how this works in layman's terms?
Yeah, SF6, I mean, basically there are two ways in simple terms
how to recycle it, how to make it fit and bring it back to industry
grade standards. I mean, one thing is cleaning it.
You filter it and then there's a second technology.
It's called cryogenics.
It's a cool word, right? Yeah, it sounds fantastic.
Explain that for our audience.
What do you usually do is in cryogenics, you deep freeze the SF6
and then you spin it.
You know, you centrifuge it, and then you can filter out
the different phases that are inside the gas.
So basically all of the contaminations
you can filter out if you deep freeze the gas.
And then you bring it back to 99.999% cleanliness.
And is this a process that Hitachi Energy does,
or is this something that is common across the industry?
Yeah, that is a super hot topic actually, because I mean, in the past, again,
personal opinion is
if you have contaminated gas, it was sent back to the manufacturer
and then they burned it and you just got a new one
or you just bought new virgin SF6 gas with those new legislations
that are now kicking in across the globe, especially Europe, North America,
that is not allowed anymore.
And you need to find ways to recycle gas.
So it's becoming more and more relevant that topic.
And we as Hitachi Energy, we are looking into this technology,
how to develop it, how to make an interesting offering to our customers.
And so the idea being that you want to offer your customers
a service where they can more easily recycle that SF6 gas.
Exactly. Why is it relevant?
Very concrete example: There is this European Union F-gas regulation.
And from 2035 onwards, our customers are only allowed to use recycled SF6.
So not Virgin SF6 anymore.
So they find themselves in a position okay where to get recycled SF6 from
and we as Hitachi Energy, we want to provide that solution
and we can already do it today, but we need to scale up also.
Speaking of recycling SF6 and moving on from it,
have you got any cool new offerings coming up that you could share in terms
of where sustainability is headed? Cool is a nice word
because– That's
exactly the sort of the purpose of– We want to cool the planet, right?
Or we want to limit the warming, right? Yeah. Yes.
I mean, we have one offering
which is super interesting because, I mean, the industry is talking a lot
about alternative gas technologies, so other than SF6.
And there are many solutions out on the market.
And we also participate in this.
But there's one hot question:
what about the SF6 that is already in our switchgears?
Right. What to do about that.
And what we have developed is a solution to replace that SF6.
But take it out and refill the acid with an alternative gas technology.
It works the same way as it did before.
It's basically a gas swap.
And that's beautiful because one thing is putting a switchgear new into the market.
Right.
But the other thing is
what to do with the SF6 that is already in the installed base.
And we have a solution that works
and we will expand it to all ranges of the portfolio.
So right now we have it 420 kV.
So that's the transmission level as we call it.
But we want to run it to a much much wider portfolio.
Yeah.
Can you talk us through a real life example
when you worked with a customer to replace SF6?
Or even better, is there a time when a customer came to you with a request
and you ended up providing them with a service that made their offering
even more sustainable?
Yes, yes.
I mean, I talked a little bit about legislation.
Yeah.
But legislation gives you the framework.
But many of our customers go beyond that.
So they are saying, okay, legislation is one thing,
but we have our own target, our own sustainability targets.
And what comes to my mind is immediately is a National Grid in the United Kingdom.
So by 2030, they want to get rid of 50% of their SF6.
And by 2050 they want to have eliminated it.
And how to do that?
Now, exactly, this EconiQ retrofil solution that I have explained,
you know, taking out the SF6, replace it with an alternative gas solution
fits in perfectly to fulfill that target
of reducing SF6 by 50% by 2030.
Yeah.
Just to repeat what you just said, so that our listeners can really grasp
the solution that you're talking about, is replacing a SF6 with EconiQ.
Is that right? Correct.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, our solution that runs on EconiQ umbrella, our EconiQ brand name.
Yeah.
And what we do is, you know, we replace SF6 with C4FN gas mixture. Yes.
Which is much more friendly to the environment.
And so you gave us as an example, the National Grid in the United Kingdom.
Do you find that there are many other countries
that are following suit that are saying by the year 2030,
we need to reduce our SF6 reliance by this much?
Yes, yes, it's super exciting times right now to be in this industry
because the power industry I'm in, I'm in a companies for 17 years.
It was a conservative industry. I mean, let's be honest.
But what's happening right now, it's remarkable.
It never happened before because legislation is changing.
You know, the focus on sustainability is growing so much.
So the EU was a bit of a lighthouse, you know, coming with the new regulation.
Yeah.
The UK is following Switzerland, states in the US
you know also ban SF6 looking after alternative technologies.
The Middle East will come for sure.
I mean there's a lot of SF6 there and a lot of infrastructure.
And they will also change to green technologies and that is unprecedented.
So it sort of seems like from what you're saying
and again, correct me if I'm wrong, that all these different industries
and governments are feeding off each other and pushing each other to really push
for progress, to move things forward to a higher standard.
Exactly.
In a way, government bodies set the tone, they set the direction.
But what we appreciate and observe is, I mean, many companies go beyond that
and really want to contribute and get rid of SF6
and look into alternative technologies.
And we really, really appreciate it and again, this never happened
in the industry before and it's actually quite exciting to be part of that.
Thanks so much for joining us today, Martin.
Thanks.
You filled in for us what asset managers are looking for
from high voltage engineers.
And you've provided more clarity around high voltage equipment.
Also, some of the specific design processes involved in that.
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Power Pulse.
Until next time.
And that's it for today.
We'll be back soon with some more great content.
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so you don't miss an episode.
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This episode was brought to you by Hitachi Energy.
Created and introduced by Bárbara Freitas-Daniels.
Content and scriptwriting by Cassandra Inay.
Guest speaker Martin Apfl.
Hosted by Sam Dash.
Produced and edited by Creative Chimps.